Apple Posts $295 Million Profit

[NEENAHBOY]

This is great news for Apple. Shares are rocketing as we speak.

[MacRumors]

Apple released (http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000006&sid=a.prBhl1_d2M&refer=home) 1st Quarter sales today with a net income of $295 million or 70 cents a share. This is up from $63 million or 17 cents/share in the same quarter last year.

iPod Sales were up 7x to 4.58 million units sold last quarter alone, bringing the total iPod sales figure to 10 million.

Meanwhile, total Mac sales rose 26 percent, selling 1.05 million Macintosh computers in the quarter, up from 829,000 a year ago.

[sjpetry]

go stock prices! :D

[quackattack]

Go Apple! I wonder if its time to invest?

[SuperChuck]

The best part about these results is that they suggest the iPod "halo" effect had already begun - even before the introduction of the mini, which will surely accelerate the momentum.

iBook sales were at their highest level ever, and that is likely due to the Pod.

[Timelessblur]

to me this raise some major red flags. It just seem to much of an increase for one year time spand. doing double digitigs % increase is high but doing triple jsut seems like something questionble is up.

I just like to say remeber enron and they where doing great and where stating this very high profit margins. Everyone believe them for a while now you have to wonder if apple is really starting to watch there stock prices and trying to make sure they keep rising by ajusting there books somewhatly. (there are tons of little dirty accounting secrets that allow for this and remember apple is for making money first and for most and high stock prices help them make more money)

[Xtremehkr]

Great news, I hope the Mini Mac takes off quickly. I wish more people knew how great OSX was, maybe time for some advertising.

[Capt Underpants]

I couldn't be more pissed at my grandfather right now. When Apple's stock was $30, I told him to buy. Two weeks ago, I told him to buy Apple stock on January 10th. Here comes January 12th, he hasn't bought squat, and it went up $7 today...

Gosh I'm pissed...

[Jigglelicious]

Now if only this success could be attributed to stellar Macintosh sales, instead of the damned iPod.

Don't get me wrong, i'm happy for Apple. But its obvious that Mac sales have not really increased due to the populatiry of the iPod like Apple originally hoped.

[WannaWiki]

woohoo apple does it again! Go crazy sales. More money for apple equals more better products. Thank you ipod halo effect!

[Sushij]

Everytime they do one of these results thing, I always check to see how many Macs were shipped. This is the first time that I know of that it broke the Million mark. Usually around 800,000 something. So finally we have cracked the Million mark!!!! Too bad I didnt help that number this year. Stupid Macs and their longer user life.

~Jeff

[RHutch]

to me this raise some major red flags. It just seem to much of an increase for one year time spand. doing double digitigs % increase is high but doing triple jsut seems like something questionble is up.

I just like to say remeber enron and they where doing great and where stating this very high profit margins. Everyone believe them for a while now you have to wonder if apple is really starting to watch there stock prices and trying to make sure they keep rising by ajusting there books somewhatly. (there are tons of little dirty accounting secrets that allow for this and remember apple is for making money first and for most and high stock prices help them make more money)

Are you serious? Come on. Your statement is just ridiculous.

[RHutch]

Now if only this success could be attributed to stellar Macintosh sales, instead of the damned iPod.

Don't get me wrong, i'm happy for Apple. But its obvious that Mac sales have not really increased due to the populatiry of the iPod like Apple originally hoped.

Did you read the details? A record number of iBooks sold. And over a million Macs sold compared to 829,000 in the same period last year. You don't think that the results have anything to do with sales of computers?

[CrackedButter]

Now if only this success could be attributed to stellar Macintosh sales, instead of the damned iPod.

Don't get me wrong, i'm happy for Apple. But its obvious that Mac sales have not really increased due to the populatiry of the iPod like Apple originally hoped.

Maybe because they don't advertise the damn things!

Cool software, nope no adverts
Cool hardware, nope no adverts
ipod... well...

It might take them another 21 years to do so however... thats only because its taken them 21 years to finally have a "computer for the masses".

They havn't even advertised the G5 iMac yet and thats crazy, more so when they have $$$ in the bank but rely on a supposed halo effect to do it for them!

[Naimfan]

This represents great news for Apple--more and more people are being exposed to Apple products, and I would like to think that the new Mac Mini will help continue that and expand into the actual computing line. The one thing to be wary of is that margins on Mini's must be very low--Apple will need to watch that carefully (though, yes, I'm sure they will....).

As far as a time to invest--I don't think so. The stock is probably fully valued, if not somewhat overvalued, and that is not the time to buy it.

Best,

Bob

[jbembe]

Boy, wouldn't it be nice to see 10 million mini Macs sold? I'll join the club when it has a G5 & Tiger, but now my 700mhzG4 iMac does just superb for what I need at home. Here comes the flood!

[SuperChuck]

to me this raise some major red flags. It just seem to much of an increase for one year time spand. doing double digitigs % increase is high but doing triple jsut seems like something questionble is up.

I just like to say remeber enron and they where doing great and where stating this very high profit margins. Everyone believe them for a while now you have to wonder if apple is really starting to watch there stock prices and trying to make sure they keep rising by ajusting there books somewhatly. (there are tons of little dirty accounting secrets that allow for this and remember apple is for making money first and for most and high stock prices help them make more money)

Or, it could be that the iPod is flying off the shelves. Apple is not citing a record "profit margin" (which is easy to fudge by hiding losses a la Enron), they are citing record units sold (which is pretty impossible to fudge without getting busted).

[bbarnhart]

The iPod revenue is not going to continue increasing forever. At some point, everyone who is going to buy an iPod is going to get one and iPod sales will flatten. Perhaps even decline a little.

The very good news is that Macintosh computer sales are increasing. I think the sales of Macs can keep increasing longer that the sales of iPods.

[Object-X]

This is certainly a good time for Apple enthusiasts. Let's hope this is just the snowball at the top of the hill. It is hard for me to concieve how anyone would want to use a PC after working with a Mac. Imagine if all these new "switchers" become as fanatical as us! :eek:

[jaseone]

to me this raise some major red flags. It just seem to much of an increase for one year time spand. doing double digitigs % increase is high but doing triple jsut seems like something questionble is up.

What are you smoking?

I have one word for you:

iPod.

[&RU]

Let me see... what would be the best ways to spend it?

1) R&D. (ie; New product development.)
2) Advertising and Marketing. (ie; For the mac as well as the iPod.)
3) Loyalty programs. (ie; Give us loyal users some of that money back.)
4) Renewed efforts in the Enterprise and Education.

Bad uses for money:

1) Lawyers.

[dejo]

...and it went up $7 today...

Well, that's a bit of an exageration. AAPL closed +.90 today, from an opening of 64.56, and was highest at 65.90.

Not that I don't want it to go a lot higher. I do!

[dejo]

to me this raise some major red flags. It just seem to much of an increase for one year time spand. doing double digitigs % increase is high but doing triple jsut seems like something questionble is up.

What triple digit increase are you referring to?

[dswoodley]

Well, that's a bit of an exageration. AAPL closed +.90 today, from an opening of 64.56, and was highest at 65.90.

Not that I don't want it to go a lot higher. I do!

They meant in afterhours trading - it's still up 7.56 or 11.5%

[LaMerVipere]

Wow. The iPod is really keeping 'em afloat, eh? :p

[Peyote]

Well, that's a bit of an exageration. AAPL closed +.90 today, from an opening of 64.56, and was highest at 65.90.

Not that I don't want it to go a lot higher. I do!

It went up $7 in after market trading. No exaggeration needed.

[Capt Underpants]

Well, that's a bit of an exageration. AAPL closed +.90 today, from an opening of 64.56, and was highest at 65.90.

Not that I don't want it to go a lot higher. I do!

Well, heck, my grandfather's the one that said it went up $7 today... Just another reason to be pissed...

edit: ouch... you got owned by the above post... ;)

[BornAgainMac]

Remember from the keynote that most of iPods shipped only in 2004. This may repeat on the Mac. I bet we have 50 million Mac users this time next year. It will start out with the techies and first adopters and work that way down to the cattle.

Moo!

[BillHarrison]

This represents great news for Apple--more and more people are being exposed to Apple products, and I would like to think that the new Mac Mini will help continue that and expand into the actual computing line. The one thing to be wary of is that margins on Mini's must be very low--Apple will need to watch that carefully (though, yes, I'm sure they will....).


I dunno, you might be surprised at the margin on the Mac Mini's:

I would dare say they are making ATLEAST 50-75$ per 499$ machine, and that is a 10-15% margin.

Granted, that is not the usual apple margin, but in the budget PC sector, thats a very GOOD margin, when some are 5% or less. And with the QUANTITY they stand to sell, not to mention the fact that ALOT of mini's will be sold with accessories (IE, High margin Items), margins on this new mac will probably not be all that bad!

[Fender2112]

Well, that's a bit of an exageration. AAPL closed +.90 today, from an opening of 64.56, and was highest at 65.90.

Not that I don't want it to go a lot higher. I do!

After Hours AAPL is at 73.45. :D
After Hours Trading (http://cbs.marketwatch.com/tools/quotes/quotes.asp?symb=aapl&siteid=mktw&dist=mktwqn)

[swissmann]

Powerbook sales don't look so good. It seems people are waiting for a G5 powerbook or else they think the ibook is close enough to the powerbook they get one of those instead.

[Doctor Q]

Here's a quote from last Saturday's Los Angeles Times.Shares of Apple Computer Inc. rose 7.3% to a four-year high ... Rumors that Apple Chief Executive Steve Jobs may announce lower-priced music players and a Macintosh computer that sells for about $500 are also buoying interest in the company.Maybe rumor sites are responsible for some of Apple's success!

[El Tritoma]

I think you can see the halo effect in the percentage of Mac sales that were iMacs. People switching or buying a Mac to go with their Wintel machine are more likely to buy an iMac than a high end machine. This has to be the leading indicator that people are switching/adding Macs for real.

[greenstork]

to me this raise some major red flags. It just seem to much of an increase for one year time spand. doing double digitigs % increase is high but doing triple jsut seems like something questionble is up.

I just like to say remeber enron and they where doing great and where stating this very high profit margins. Everyone believe them for a while now you have to wonder if apple is really starting to watch there stock prices and trying to make sure they keep rising by ajusting there books somewhatly. (there are tons of little dirty accounting secrets that allow for this and remember apple is for making money first and for most and high stock prices help them make more money)

A classic MacRumors post...

Take your "somewhatly" glass half-empty attitude elsewhere please.

Sometimes having the best selling consumer electronics device on the market earns profits, go figure.

[puckhead193]

Very good apple....i might call my stock broker soon.....
I'm glad i'm part of the 1.05 million mac sales for the past quatar :cool:

[Sushij]

Just a quick question. How much Market share do you guys want Apple to gain.
I, for one love that I am part of the small Mac community. Now dont get me wrong, I would love Apple to become the dominate platform, but if that costs me security problems and viruses, then No Thanks. Just wondering what you guys think.

~Jeff

[mmmbop]

Wow. Just wow.

[iBoris]

I agree totally with mmmbop here.

Great news, Go Apple!

I can really see a chance for Apple to break into the mass market with great products that people really want.

People are fed up with computers that don't work, are over complicated or suffer from virus etc.

But, I gotta say. Why the negatives? Why can't people who support Apple be happy when they become successful?

[reaper]

to me this raise some major red flags. It just seem to much of an increase for one year time spand. doing double digitigs % increase is high but doing triple jsut seems like something questionble is up.

I just like to say remeber enron and they where doing great and where stating this very high profit margins. Everyone believe them for a while now you have to wonder if apple is really starting to watch there stock prices and trying to make sure they keep rising by ajusting there books somewhatly. (there are tons of little dirty accounting secrets that allow for this and remember apple is for making money first and for most and high stock prices help them make more money)

Regardless of the irrational nature of your comment, Enron is a thing of the past. Sarbanes-Oxley has affirmatively shut the door on acts like MCI-Worldcom and Enron, and an executive would be absolutely foolish to allow such accounting practices to occur in 2005. His freedom and riches would be taken away quicker than the new Mac Mini will fly off the shelves. End of story.

- reaper

[iGary]

Almost a half-million iMacs.

Geebus. :D

[Avicdar]

Just a quick question. How much Market share do you guys want Apple to gain.
I, for one love that I am part of the small Mac community. Now dont get me wrong, I would love Apple to become the dominate platform, but if that costs me security problems and viruses, then No Thanks. Just wondering what you guys think.

~Jeff

I would like for Apple to gain enough of a marketshare that it attracts more gifted developers to the platform. The machine is useless without innovative apps. And you know what? Most of the software I run on my mac comes from Apple.

Agreed on the virus issue. Although I don't typically find myself engaging in habits that would allow such a thing anyways.

[mac512pbg4]

1. Apple doesn't advertise G5 products because they are selling all they can make and they can't make as many as they want due to production issues.

2. You can bet your ranch they will advertise the Mac mini like the iPod if they have enough G4 chips to meet increased demand. Moto will regret spinning off Freescale if Apple can sell a million or 2 Mac minis this year.

3. While the margins on the Mac mini will be small, Apple will make $$$ on the peripherals and AppleCare. Even more, the reseller market will have volume sales with monitors, keyboards etc. If Apple can duplicate the iPod sales channel, it will be huge.

4. Those who see iPod saturation may have a point; Apple sort of hints at that in their modest expectations for the next quarter. In addition, there are the European, Latin American and Asian markets to be explored. As the iTMS expands, so will the demand for iPods.

5. While hardware margins are low, software margins on incremental sales are huge (just the packaging and cd). Think iLife 05 (for installed base) and iWork, as well as Tiger when it ships.

6. Unfortunately for me, I don't invest in stocks in companies I have too much of an emotional attachment to, so I didn't buy AAPL at 15.

7. One thing Apple has going for it as a brand is the good design and function of their products, and the genuine FUN both the producers and users seem to have with the stuff.

:D :D :D

[Avicdar]

I agree totally with mmmbop here.

Great news, Go Apple!

I can really see a chance for Apple to break into the mass market with great products that people really want.

People are fed up with computers that don't work, are over complicated or suffer from virus etc.

But, I gotta say. Why the negatives? Why can't people who support Apple be happy when they become successful?

I am convinced there are PC folks out there that surf to this site for no other reason than to click 'negative' on every positive Apple story, troll a bit in the threads, and then leave.

But then again, there seems to be a small cell of mac folks out there that see anything positive from Apple that expands user base as negative, as it might infringe on their 'elite' status as a mac user.

[Mantat]

Just of the record, that increase in sale has nothing extraordinary and was even predictable. Think about it: how many people you knew were waiting for an update that arrived this quarter before buying? If Apple can keep this amount of sale for a few semester I will be impressed.

Also, share price HAS NOTHING TO DO with profits!!! NOTHING! Incvease in share price only benefit the shareholders, not the company! This is one of the things I hate: people who make bad asuptions based on wrong financial knowledge. This is not personal at all, its just that people need to financialy educated themself to understand the economical life...

[jettredmont]

to me this raise some major red flags. It just seem to much of an increase for one year time spand. doing double digitigs % increase is high but doing triple jsut seems like something questionble is up.

I just like to say remeber enron and they where doing great and where stating this very high profit margins. Everyone believe them for a while now you have to wonder if apple is really starting to watch there stock prices and trying to make sure they keep rising by ajusting there books somewhatly. (there are tons of little dirty accounting secrets that allow for this and remember apple is for making money first and for most and high stock prices help them make more money)

Apple does considerably less banking on their current stock price than the likes of Enron et al. Having watched Apple's accounting for several years, Apple has always been on the conservative side of reporting. I don't see anything to make me think that's changed.

[dejo]

They meant in afterhours trading - it's still up 7.56 or 11.5%

Ah, sorry. Duly noted.

[jettredmont]

Now if only this success could be attributed to stellar Macintosh sales, instead of the damned iPod.

Don't get me wrong, i'm happy for Apple. But its obvious that Mac sales have not really increased due to the populatiry of the iPod like Apple originally hoped.


Ummm ... I'd call 26% an increase ...

[dejo]

Sarbanes-Oxley has affirmatively shut the door on acts like MCI-Worldcom and Enron

Too bad only for publicly-traded companies. Private ones can still "cook the books" if they want. Not that that's legal or anything.

[Jigglelicious]

Ummm ... I'd call 26% an increase ...


Yes, but its no where near the 700% increase the iPods had

[dejo]

I would like for Apple to gain enough of a marketshare that it attracts more gifted developers to the platform.

Are you saying there's a lot more gifted developers building more innovative software for other OSes?

[Converted2Truth]

I just hope apple starts avertising the Mini as an alternative to windows. If they don't, then this mini will only steal from imac/emac sales.

It took me 3 years to convice my dad to stop using DOS 6.22. Now he touts windows XP as a godsend (i installed it for him) yet every weekend i have to remove all the spyware and viruses that he gets... I keep telling him OS X, but i tell you... stupid ignorant people think windows is the shiznit and won't listen to anything you say about an alternative. The cattle MOO, and i am thinking of opening a slaughterhouse...

Apple needs to use more than the Halo effect. They need newsites to advertise a secure and reliable alternative. They need TV commercials.

One of the things that got me over to Mac was the fact that they practically invented the GUI for home computers. M$ i learned was just a copy... a fake... i felt betrayed... so i switched. Granted, i'm not a pure blood... but there's nothing i can do about that (or could have done).

[mdriftmeyer]

I bought at $20 early last year. I hope the stock reaches just over $100 and splits.

I couldn't be more pissed at my grandfather right now. When Apple's stock was $30, I told him to buy. Two weeks ago, I told him to buy Apple stock on January 10th. Here comes January 12th, he hasn't bought squat, and it went up $7 today...

Gosh I'm pissed...

[rdowns]

Wow. The iPod is really keeping 'em afloat, eh? :p

In a word, no. Hardware revenue was $1.065 billion, up from $1.269 billion in the same quarter last year. A 30% increase in your HIGH margin items is nothing to sneeze at.

Of course, iPod numbers were awesome also; $1.211 billion vs. $256 million in the same quarter last year. That's a 127% increase. Of course, last January is when iPods really started to soar.

Apple has posted the financials here:

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2005/jan/12results.html

[mdriftmeyer]

The company shipped 337,000 iMacs, said Chief Financial Officer Peter Oppenheimer in an interview. Total Mac sales rose 26 percent to $1.61 billion. The most popular Mac model was the new version of the iMac, released in mid-September.

In a word, no. Hardware revenue was $1.065 billion, up from $1.269 billion in the same quarter last year. A 30% increase in your HIGH margin items is nothing to sneeze at.

Of course, iPod numbers were awesome also; $1.211 billion vs. $256 million in the same quarter last year. That's a 127% increase. Of course, last January is when iPods really started to soar.

Apple has posted the financials here:

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2005/jan/12results.html

[Capt Underpants]

I bought at $20 early last year. I hope the stock reaches just over $100 and splits.

I don't want to hear it...

[mdriftmeyer]

Try almost 500%.

In a word, no. Hardware revenue was $1.065 billion, up from $1.269 billion in the same quarter last year. A 30% increase in your HIGH margin items is nothing to sneeze at.

Of course, iPod numbers were awesome also; $1.211 billion vs. $256 million in the same quarter last year. That's a 127% increase. Of course, last January is when iPods really started to soar.

Apple has posted the financials here:

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2005/jan/12results.html

[killmoms]

Yes, but its no where near the 700% increase the iPods had
And... so what? You were expecting every iPod user to also buy a Mac? You thought the halo effect would track exactly with the iPod? You're dreaming! The halo effect will never match the growth of the iPod, because they're two completely different products. Asking people to switch to the Mac is still quite an exercise—it takes a lot of balls for some people to leave behind what's familiar for something new. Now that the Mac mini is out, that takes away some of the barrier to entry, but it's still a big proposition for many. I believe the halo effect will be accelerated, but if you were expecting to see 700% growth in Mac sales, you were dreaming higher than Steve Jobs ever has.

[rdowns]

Try almost 500%.

My bad, copied number off the wrong line of the financials.

[Photorun]

And yet chuzzlewhitzes marked this thread as negative? Must be peecee luser trolls lurking who are irked Apple's future gets brighter and brighter.

[jwhitnah]

Go Apple! I wonder if its time to invest?
too late

[Photorun]

I just hope apple starts avertising the Mini as an alternative to windows. If they don't, then this mini will only steal from imac/emac sales.

It took me 3 years to convice my dad to stop using DOS 6.22. Now he touts windows XP as a godsend (i installed it for him) yet every weekend i have to remove all the spyware and viruses that he gets... I keep telling him OS X, but i tell you... stupid ignorant people think windows is the shiznit and won't listen to anything you say about an alternative. The cattle MOO, and i am thinking of opening a slaughterhouse...

Apple needs to use more than the Halo effect. They need newsites to advertise a secure and reliable alternative. They need TV commercials.

One of the things that got me over to Mac was the fact that they practically invented the GUI for home computers. M$ i learned was just a copy... a fake... i felt betrayed... so i switched. Granted, i'm not a pure blood... but there's nothing i can do about that (or could have done).

My good man, you nailed just about everything I go breathless trying to explain succinctly and in less space. Jolly good show!!! Great to hear I'm not the only one getting it as the masses and Apple's marketing DON'T get it.

[kasei]

to me this raise some major red flags. It just seem to much of an increase for one year time spand. doing double digitigs % increase is high but doing triple jsut seems like something questionble is up.

I just like to say remeber enron and they where doing great and where stating this very high profit margins. Everyone believe them for a while now you have to wonder if apple is really starting to watch there stock prices and trying to make sure they keep rising by ajusting there books somewhatly. (there are tons of little dirty accounting secrets that allow for this and remember apple is for making money first and for most and high stock prices help them make more money)

Thanks to Enron there have been many changes in the way companies can claim their profit let alone hide anything on the books. Dirty accounting secrets? I doubt any company would want to risk their stock dropping to pennies over false profit claims.

[rdowns]

to me this raise some major red flags. It just seem to much of an increase for one year time spand. doing double digitigs % increase is high but doing triple jsut seems like something questionble is up.

I just like to say remeber enron and they where doing great and where stating this very high profit margins. Everyone believe them for a while now you have to wonder if apple is really starting to watch there stock prices and trying to make sure they keep rising by ajusting there books somewhatly. (there are tons of little dirty accounting secrets that allow for this and remember apple is for making money first and for most and high stock prices help them make more money)

Explain to me how Apple benefits from a higher share price? The shareholder benefits, not Apple. It's not like Apple needs a higher market cap to borrow money, they have enough cash to fund most nations on this planet.

How is it you equate Apple with Enron? Apple ships a physical product. Enron dealt in smoke and mirrors.

[jcook793]

I bought at $20 early last year. I hope the stock reaches just over $100 and splits.Dude, SELL. Better to sell too early than too late. 265% profit.

[jwhitnah]

The company shipped 337,000 iMacs, said Chief Financial Officer Peter Oppenheimer in an interview. Total Mac sales rose 26 percent to $1.61 billion. The most popular Mac model was the new version of the iMac, released in mid-September.

I never read it myself but that is great. The new i Mac appears to be a solid success. Although is is an improvement on the G4 iMac, I never expected the G4 iMac to do as poorly as it did. Price is always an issue. I really hope the Mac mini gets the ball in motion for increasing market share. I am not looking for world domination. I would be satisfied if we someday (won't be anytime this decade) peaked at 15% (5x more than now). :)

[jwhitnah]

Are you saying there's a lot more gifted developers building more innovative software for other OSes?
Yeah really. I thought they all worked for Apple already; that's why XP sucks. :cool:

[jwhitnah]

Ummm ... I'd call 26% an increase ...
Hopefully Mac mini addresses this.

[jbembe]

Ummm ... I'd call 26% an increase ...


And please note that they weren't even shipping iMacs for a month or so the end of last summer...

Oh the possibilities, halo effect, miniMac, etc... :D

[nagromme]

I would love Apple to become the dominate platform, but if that costs me security problems and viruses, then No Thanks. Just wondering what you guys think.

No need to panic, Apple's not becoming the dominant platform :) Windows could fall to one or more alternatives. OS X is the most likely candidate. But for Windows to fall to second place will be a LONG, long road. Years.

And we'll get viruses either way. A lot of people have jealousy and hate towards non-Microsoft computers. Usually they just troll... but they could do more. And the Mac being so hard to crack is a challenge--there's prestige to be won there. The same acclaim just isnt there for being a "script kiddie" who makes yet-another-Windows-virus.

So people are already trying to make OS X viruses. They WILL succeed no matter WHAT happens to marketshare. But we'll never have the problems of Windows. Nothing even close to that scale. Our target is smaller and our OS is better-designed. Those things aren't changing any time soon.

[Avicdar]

Are you saying there's a lot more gifted developers building more innovative software for other OSes?

No. I didn't say that.

What I did say is that there are a lot of gifted developers who are NOT developing for OSX, and could be doing so.

[KCK]

Also, share price HAS NOTHING TO DO with profits!!! NOTHING! Incvease in share price only benefit the shareholders, not the company! This is one of the things I hate: people who make bad asuptions based on wrong financial knowledge. This is not personal at all, its just that people need to financialy educated themself to understand the economical life...

Actually profits do have a direct relation to share price. One of the things that drive up the price of a stock is increasing profits. Investors want to buy into a company that is increasing their profits. With increasing profits there are chances that a company may declare a regular dividend or like Microsoft if there is enough money in the bank there may be a special dividend. also an increasing share price and directly benefit the company. companies like Apple award stock options to employees. when the share price goes up then the stock options become valuable which means the employees can cash in their options and make a ton of money and be happy and more productive workers.

[mhouse]

Yes, but its no where near the 700% increase the iPods had

Of course it isn't. A 700% increase is freakish, man.

Apple is in a good position to continue to do very, very well over the next decade, but please don't think a 700% increase is a reasonable benchmark to judge performance by.

Even the iPod won't keep that kid of growth up for long. In fact, maybe only for another quarter or two. But you don't have to show *that* kind of growth to still be doing very well.

[verozov]

hope after all the windows users switch having a mac will still be the trendy thing to do

[mustang_dvs]

So, now that Apple's on a roll, how long do you think it will be before some Tech Writer (*cough*Dvorak*cough*) or investment firm writes a flashy article that uses the ever-popular "Beleaguered" to predict that Apple's time is nigh?

:rolleyes:

[macridah]

How could there be negative ratings on this news. I thought I was crazy when a bought on a dip today cuz analyst expected more than 4.5 mil ipods sold. My gut feeling was the iMac and gift cert also did well. I made enough money today to buy a mac mini, 1gb iPod shuffle and iWorks :D

[Toppa G's]

5. While hardware margins are low, software margins on incremental sales are huge (just the packaging and cd). Think iLife 05 (for installed base) and iWork, as well as Tiger when it ships.


This just isn't true. Apple has huge margins on their hardware. Plus, R&D going into software is pretty extensive, not to mention that they give their software away with new Macs.

[DPazdanISU]

I sold about 10 grand of Apple stock when they were 22 bux.... :eek:
The only reason i'm not jumping off a bridge right as i speak is because my pops made me sell them. He thought I should diversify my portfolio :mad:
Even worse, I waited to long to order a mac mini, now I have to wait 3-4 weeks :eek: :eek: :eek:

[jettredmont]

Dude, SELL. Better to sell too early than too late. 265% profit.

Taxes decrease considerably if he waits until he's held for 2 years. So if he thinks the stock will stay this high or higher for a year, then ...

[jettredmont]

The iPod revenue is not going to continue increasing forever. At some point, everyone who is going to buy an iPod is going to get one and iPod sales will flatten. Perhaps even decline a little.

The very good news is that Macintosh computer sales are increasing. I think the sales of Macs can keep increasing longer that the sales of iPods.

Well, the funny thing is, the digital player market is growing fast, and still has a significant amount of room to grow. I think in terms of raw sales we'll see a MASSIVE uptick the next couple of quarters, with the iPod cannibalizing its competitor's market share, but also with the general digital music player market continuing its ascent.

Compare the number of digital music players to other portable music players and it is ob vious that there is a LOT of market expansion room. Compare the number of players sold this year versus last year and it is obvious that the market *is* expanding to fill that void.

No, no market can expand forever. I'd give the iPod market (assuming Apple can remain ahead of the pack) at most five more years of expansion before relative stagnation (replacement buying instead of new buying). However, that gives Apple five years to come up with the next new big thing, and of course five years of astronomical profit potential.

In terms of markets, the digital player market is still a baby. It has a lot of room to grow. Other companies would kill for the potential there. Witness Creative, spending massive amounts of money just to get a toehold in the market.

[inkswamp]

This is certainly a good time for Apple enthusiasts. Let's hope this is just the snowball at the top of the hill. It is hard for me to concieve how anyone would want to use a PC after working with a Mac. Imagine if all these new "switchers" become as fanatical as us! :eek:

Don't want to scare you (much) but the switchers that I know have become MORE fanatical than any long-time Mac users that I know. I think it has something to do with realizing that the grass really is greener over on this side. I think it's a shock, causes very strong favorable reactions.

Maybe it's time to start a new religion? ;)

[SWC]

Powerbook sales don't look so good. It seems people are waiting for a G5 powerbook or else they think the ibook is close enough to the powerbook they get one of those instead.

I am willing to bet its the later, im at that point where its buy an ibook or go for a powerbook for a few hundred more to get a pc card slot and a widescreen display hardly worth it.

[SWC]

5. While hardware margins are low, software margins on incremental sales are huge (just the packaging and cd). Think iLife 05 (for installed base) and iWork, as well as Tiger when it ships.


Are you crazy? they have almost the highest if not the highest profit margins in the PC industry. 20% + avg is unheard of anymore with all of the price wars on the pc side of things.

[Stella]

After the ""The mother of all challenges"" regarding G5 PB my patience has dramatically reduced.

I hope hoping for June in the Developer Conference.. but now, I really don't think PB G5 will happen then.

Hoping for a dual G4 core later in the year.

[rickvanr]

I couldn't be more pissed at my grandfather right now. When Apple's stock was $30, I told him to buy. Two weeks ago, I told him to buy Apple stock on January 10th. Here comes January 12th, he hasn't bought squat, and it went up $7 today...

Gosh I'm pissed...

Now how pissed are you that you didn't buy stock in the mid-90s..

[rickvanr]

I am willing to bet its the later, im at that point where its buy an ibook or go for a powerbook for a few hundred more to get a pc card slot and a widescreen display hardly worth it.

On CNBC they said the high profits were in part to the huge ipod sales... 8 million on the year... 4.5 million in the holiday season.. and an increase in the powerbook sales.. they may have misspoke and meant iBook tho. They also mentioned the flash based ipod... and how its timing was super in order to continue these high growths. I was disappointed they didn't mention the mac mini tho.

[outerspaceapple]

I just hope apple starts avertising the Mini as an alternative to windows. If they don't, then this mini will only steal from imac/emac sales.

It took me 3 years to convice my dad to stop using DOS 6.22. Now he touts windows XP as a godsend (i installed it for him) yet every weekend i have to remove all the spyware and viruses that he gets... I keep telling him OS X, but i tell you... stupid ignorant people think windows is the shiznit and won't listen to anything you say about an alternative. The cattle MOO, and i am thinking of opening a slaughterhouse...

Apple needs to use more than the Halo effect. They need newsites to advertise a secure and reliable alternative. They need TV commercials.

One of the things that got me over to Mac was the fact that they practically invented the GUI for home computers. M$ i learned was just a copy... a fake... i felt betrayed... so i switched. Granted, i'm not a pure blood... but there's nothing i can do about that (or could have done).


I'm a "pure blood." :D :D My mom worked for apple back before she was married in the days of the Lisa! All I can say is, YEY FOR APPLE. I learned to type on a centris 610.

[azdude]

Mildly related (this probably belongs in a MR post on sales figs, but oh well):

If you track iTMS sales press releases vs. time, you'll note that Christmas gave a substantial increase in slope. This is looking nice!

[virividox]

wahoo lets just hope speculation doesnt make it rocket then crash

[frankly]

I would like for Apple to gain enough of a marketshare that it attracts more gifted developers to the platform. The machine is useless without innovative apps. And you know what? Most of the software I run on my mac comes from Apple.

Agreed on the virus issue. Although I don't typically find myself engaging in habits that would allow such a thing anyways.

We already have gifted developers writing software for the Mac. I have been a Mac user for 16 years and I recently started a job where I have to use a Windows machine all day. The software that is written for Windows is predominantly crap both in functionality and interface. Let me list just a few of the beautifully designed apps that I miss each and every day that aren't written by Apple:


GraphicConverter
BBEdit
OmniGraffle
Watson (sorry to see this go)
DragThing
Fire
Delicious Library
Audio Hijack
OmniOutliner
Portraits & Prints
TeXShop


And that is just the tip of the iceberg.

Frank

[frankly]

4. Those who see iPod saturation may have a point; Apple sort of hints at that in their modest expectations for the next quarter. In addition, there are the European, Latin American and Asian markets to be explored. As the iTMS expands, so will the demand for iPods.

What modest predictions for the next quarter???


Revenue for the quarter was $3.49 billion

Looking ahead to the second quarter of fiscal 2005, we expect revenue of about $2.9 billion

Considering the fact that the $3.5 billion was for the Christmas quarter I'm not exactly sure why $2.9 billion sounds modest for this quarter..... especially since the same quarter last year only saw $1.9 billion in sales.

Frank

[gwangung]

This just isn't true. Apple has huge margins on their hardware.

Um, no. Not compared to the real world. We're talking 25-28% margins for Apple. In the real world of manufacturing, 20% margins represent rock bottom margins for SURVIVAL.

Thinking those type of margins are huge is a sign that the PC market is really kinda crazy--there's no magic that suddenly allows PC makers to make it on margins much lower than 15-20%.

[xsnightclub]

Um, no. Not compared to the real world. We're talking 25-28% margins for Apple. In the real world of manufacturing, 20% margins represent rock bottom margins for SURVIVAL.

Thinking those type of margins are huge is a sign that the PC market is really kinda crazy--there's no magic that suddenly allows PC makers to make it on margins much lower than 15-20%.

The extremely-low margins on the PC side are the reasons for the prediction a couple of months ago that 3 of the top 10 pc manufacturers will leave the market in the next year. With IBM selling its pc division the predicition is already coming true, and there is no reason to think that at least two more won't depart this year. (BTW Apple was predicted to remain strong)
The good news in this prediction is that with some of the major players leaving the market and others merging, there will be less competition amongst the pc makers and less of a cut throat marketplace. Thus making $400 Dells and Gateways with minimal (or non-existent) profit margins a less attractive business model. Once the market matures the remaining players will level out profit margins.

Which, without the artificially low prices of PCs, will make Apple appear more competitive in the market, and not scare away people looking for (hopefully discontinued) disposable $400 PCs with sticker shock.

[dontmatter]

Interesting, how the timing of MWSF and the quarterly results is really just a form of hedging of the bets. If one goes wrong, the other is hopefully something to tout, and keep the stock up there.

Also, 25% increased in mac sales.... does anybody know how this stacks up to the industry as a whole right now? (IE- is the this market share or riding the wave, primarily?) Likewise, to interpret, was that 25% a dollars number or units sold? And anybody remember if a year ago was a particularly good or bad quarter, in terms of the product cycle, other not so long term trends?

All in all, looks good, but the question will be what will wall street thing, particularly given that apple went down with mac world, rather than up.

Good god, the mac mini is a risk. Every other mac, success is selling enough to make it profitable. But the mini isn't about that, it's saying, here we are, with as much hype, cash, momentum, and an edge over windows as we're ever going to be, now is the time to gamble, and try and take on windows. Cheap stuff and iworks-there is no greater symbol of taking on windows than that, for apple. If they fail, they fail big, stock plummets, they sink huge dough into it too, to try and get what can be got from the situation. If it works, well, it works, and 65 bucks is justified, so why not 100?

The good news is, the timing is perfect. Windows has to be near rock bottom, as far as viruses etc. go-they're going to recover soon, or at least be able to convince people that longhorn will fix it all. But longhorn is so far away, and windows is so trashed. Mac OS is at the top of it's game, and there isn't much more it can do-it's got the great features under it's belt, and one promised to come, so nobody will think, hmm, there's not much left to do but bloat it all to hell. If panther's searching wasn't on the horizon, it wouldn't look like apple had future growth, but if it was any earlier with the OS, then there wouldn't be exposé, ilife in such great glory, all the rest. Also, apple is at it's maximum of hype, both with the imac, and apple as a brand, and more so with the ipod. But that is great, because both the hype is good, and apple has been bid up as the ipod company, not the mac company. So failure to move the mac part isn't gonna kill them, but success could be huge. And, of course, 10 million ipods out there, and still nothing comparable, is as good of a "hey, might try a mac" kinda crowd as they're going to get, until of course the ipod isn't actually that much better than the competition.

But, I've already read reviews calling the mac mini overpriced- compared to gateways with monitor and mice included, same price.

Naturally, though, nothing is that enticing about the gateway, to a windows user, while a computer they can consider totally secure and stable, and with awesome software, might have quite a draw.

[xsnightclub]

But profit margins on the mini and shuffle are lower than the company's 27 percent gross margins. Although Apple executives wouldn't provide many details, analysts speculate that shuffle margin is about 20 percent, and the mini is as low as 18 percent.

[dontmatter]

What modest predictions for the next quarter???




Considering the fact that the $3.5 billion was for the Christmas quarter I'm not exactly sure why $2.9 billion sounds modest for this quarter..... especially since the same quarter last year only saw $1.9 billion in sales.

Frank

Particularly because, with the new dominance of the ipod, there should be a lot more fluctation with the christmas quarter than previously for apple. After all, how many people will buy a ipod for a gift at 300 bucks, versus a powermac for 3 grand? Hopefully the rate of growth for the ipod is great enough that it sells about the same number without the christmas boost as it did with.

[dejo]

But for Windows to fall to second place will be a LONG, long road.

For a second there I was predicting you'd to say "LONG, longhorn road." ;)

[SiliconAddict]

Powerbook sales don't look so good.

Good. http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/images/smiles/icon_evil.gif
They deserve it for not getting on the PowerBook issue before it became one in the first place. Hope PB sales tank further until they can actually come out with something that isn’t craptastic. :mad: :(

With that out the way.

Here’s hoping for some major Mac Mini sales the first half of the year. Wouldn’t it be cool of Jobs could announce 1.5 million Mac Minis sold by WWDC. Yah, yah it’s a pipe dream but I can dream can’t I?

[dontmatter]

I just hope apple starts avertising the Mini as an alternative to windows. If they don't, then this mini will only steal from imac/emac sales.

It took me 3 years to convice my dad to stop using DOS 6.22. Now he touts windows XP as a godsend (i installed it for him) yet every weekend i have to remove all the spyware and viruses that he gets... I keep telling him OS X, but i tell you... stupid ignorant people think windows is the shiznit and won't listen to anything you say about an alternative. The cattle MOO, and i am thinking of opening a slaughterhouse...

Apple needs to use more than the Halo effect. They need newsites to advertise a secure and reliable alternative. They need TV commercials.

One of the things that got me over to Mac was the fact that they practically invented the GUI for home computers. M$ i learned was just a copy... a fake... i felt betrayed... so i switched. Granted, i'm not a pure blood... but there's nothing i can do about that (or could have done).

I think I can explain exactly why they aren't advertizing the mini as such, and aren't going to.

Stock price. If they advertize it as a PC killer, a major source of switchers, then they must either gain serious market share, or deal with major loss of face and stock price. If they advertize it more subtly (and yeah, they can do a good ammount of advertizing, if they wish, just not if it's about windows), then they either gain serious market share, just the same, or simply loose some R&D and marketing costs, and make another cube-sure, a weight on the company, but nothing too problematic.

[dejo]

Yah, yah it’s a pipe dream but I can dream can’t I?

Sure ya can. Just wondering what's in your pipe to illicit dreams like that.

[dontmatter]

Just a quick question. How much Market share do you guys want Apple to gain.
I, for one love that I am part of the small Mac community. Now dont get me wrong, I would love Apple to become the dominate platform, but if that costs me security problems and viruses, then No Thanks. Just wondering what you guys think.

~Jeff

eh, I don't want apple to dominate. The reason the mac is so much better isn't because apple's all cool like that, it's because they have to be to stay around. Windows sucks so much because they can. that's what it means to be a monopoly. So, I wouldn't want apple with more than 50%, because it would mean less competition and crappier computers for everybody. For that matter, 50% would be way, way too much weight to swing in one hardware manufacture. If apple adopted a crappy standard, but there was a better one out there, all sorts of other makers of parts, software and full systems would be forced into it, because you just can't ignore the market share from a profit standpoint, and you don't want to anger somebody with half the money in the buisness.

So, my dream would be maybe 45% market share, as an OS, but apple would start to liscense when they hit 25-30% market share, so as hardware it was only about 1/4.

But, you know, I'd love 10 or 15%, too. That would be awesome. And more profitable, because the cost of devoloping all the software doesn't increase a penny, but it sure spreads the burden out, as MS knows.

[SiliconAddict]

IMHO what I would love to see Apple do is put out an iPod-isk snazzy Mac Mini ad at the super bowl. Externally get people interested in the device like they did with the iPod and then in store and on the web rip into Windows on how insecure and difficult it is or at least can be for the non techhead. They need to play this up as being as cool as the iPod. Admittedly its not going to be the same since an iPod is a status symbol that is trendy. You don't see that little box sitting on your desk. But if Apple could bridge the gap between iPod being cool WITH OS X. *shutters* The though is to scary to contemplate. :cool:

[SiliconAddict]

Sure ya can. Just wondering what's in your pipe to illicit dreams like that.

The good stuff, of course. :D

[Savage Henry]

Good. http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/images/smiles/icon_evil.gif
They deserve it for not getting on the PowerBook issue before it became one in the first place. Hope PB sales tank further until they can actually come out with something that isn’t craptastic. :mad: :(

I can't profess to being a PB user, and never likely to be, but I can certainly sympathise with the users of the most neglected product lines of Apple's recent history.

With that out the way.

Here’s hoping for some major Mac Mini sales the first half of the year. Wouldn’t it be cool of Jobs could announce 1.5 million Mac Minis sold by WWDC.

I don't think HP and Dell are going to take the Mac Mini intrusion into their realm too lightly ... expect something from the drawer of lowest-common-denominator from those guys in the next couple of weeks.

[bigandy]

Share price HAS NOTHING TO DO with profits!!! NOTHING! Incvease in share price only benefit the shareholders, not the company! This is one of the things I hate: people who make bad asuptions based on wrong financial knowledge. This is not personal at all, its just that people need to financialy educated themself to understand the economical life...

It is naive to think that share price has nothing to do with profits. it, in fact, has a huge amount to do with profits - a record profit released, such as this, and the share price will jump, as demand for shares in a successful company rocket. a profit warning is released (for example the Sainsbury's Group today in the UK), and the share price slumps as everyone sells up and moves their money away from them.

Increase in share price benefits the company hugely - this is where their ownership lies. a company is divided into a large number of portions, or "shares" which are then sold to individuals, who are, essentially, buying a portion of the business. anyone with even one apple share is an owner of the company. if the share price of apple slumped to $0.03 a share apple would be worth nothing as a company. the share price jumps by $10, and that increases the value of the company probably by something like $1bn.

so to sum up, thinking that profits have nothing to do with share prices is naive, but again, thinking they have everything to do with shares is also naive. the real answer here is that profits have a short term affect on share prices: usually less than three months. but then again we cant tell exactly what causes the jump in share prices over the next short period - it will most likely be a mixture of profits, new products, and strong sales.

:rolleyes:

[tazznb]

How can anyone chime in this type of profit as being negative? :confused: Well let me click on positive :)

[combatcolin]

Does anyone know how may of each machine were sold and if so is there a comparison to last year/quarter?

[rdowns]

Does anyone know how may of each machine were sold and if so is there a comparison to last year/quarter?

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2005/jan/12results.html


See 2 PDF links at top of page.

[AdeFowler]

I really believe that rather than spending millions advertising the Mini, Apple would be better off getting them into every school.

My sister and her husband recently bought their first ever computer. I tried so hard to get them to go mac but they went Dell because that's what their kids use at school. It's hard to argue against their logic; their kids are 6 and 8 years old and can't be expected to learn 2 OSs.

Now imagine if every kid went home and said we need to get a mac. And every kid grew up using a mac. I really don't think it's far fetched to think that Apple should practically give hardware to education establishments and reap the profits that result from it.

[jmurray]

Well, that's a bit of an exageration. AAPL closed +.90 today, from an opening of 64.56, and was highest at 65.90.

Not that I don't want it to go a lot higher. I do!

Actually, it went up more than $7 in after-hours trading. Here's a quote from a Reuters Business Web story:

"Apple's shares climbed to $74 in after-hours trade on the Inet electronic brokerage from their close of $65.46 on Nasdaq."

[johnnyjibbs]

I think we can finally put the "Apple is surely going to go under" fears to rest. Profits are now very healthy and Mac sales are starting to increase, even before the Mac Mini enters the equation.

I think this is all to do with a combination of the iPod halo effect and its impact on the Apple brand, cheaper prices across the board and improvements to the software package. These days, what do you need a Windows PC for anyway? Lack of viruses and spyware (which are heavily haunting Windows at the moment) and a lovely OS are of course the icing on top of a deliciously tasty cake.

[jmurray]

Does anyone know how may of each machine were sold and if so is there a comparison to last year/quarter?

Couldn't find exact numbers from yesterday's release other than Total, iMac, and eMac, but something is awry:

1,046,000 million Macs overall in the last quarter
337,000 iMac G5's
119,000 eMacs

The following numbers were as of mid December:

836,000 Macs overall
229,000 iMacs and eMacs
238,000 iBooks
156,000 Power Macs
213,000 Powerbooks and xServes

So that's a difference of 210,000 units between mid December and actual Q4 numbers released yesterday.

Since we know that iMacs and eMacs were at 456,000, something seems wrong here. If you apply a relative increase to the other catagories, the total soars way above 1.05 million. Anybody else got an explanation??

[whooleytoo]

Actually, it went up more than $7 in after-hours trading. Here's a quote from a Reuters Business Web story:

"Apple's shares climbed to $74 in after-hours trade on the Inet electronic brokerage from their close of $65.46 on Nasdaq."

Isn't $75 (just after the stock split) AAPL's all time high? We could break it today.

[whooleytoo]

Since we know that iMacs and eMacs were at 456,000, something seems wrong here. If you apply a relative increase to the other catagories, the total soars way above 1.05 million. Anybody else got an explanation??

Lots of people bought iMacs for Christmas, whereas Power Macs and XServes - being more oriented towards work - don't tend to get bought at this time of year? (blind guess).

[macridah]

apple desktop share should of went up because of these numbers. I did notice a drop in xserve and power mac sales. I guess not too many people building super computers last quarter. But with oracle and cisco using xserve and xraid, I think others will follow very soon.

[zwida]

I really believe that rather than spending millions advertising the Mini, Apple would be better off getting them into every school.

My sister and her husband recently bought their first ever computer. I tried so hard to get them to go mac but they went Dell because that's what their kids use at school. It's hard to argue against their logic; their kids are 6 and 8 years old and can't be expected to learn 2 OSs.

Now imagine if every kid went home and said we need to get a mac. And every kid grew up using a mac. I really don't think it's far fetched to think that Apple should practically give hardware to education establishments and reap the profits that result from it.

While I agree with your overall point here, the idea that kids growing up using Macs will have a marked impact on Apple's longterm health doesn't hold. Growing up in N. California in the 80s, every school had Macs in classrooms & computer labs. Very few of my long former classmates now use Macs, I'd guess.

Perhaps the machines are now more integrated into curriculum (which you could argue creates a different sort of connection than we had). Of course, I'd love to see Macs in all schools, but I don't think Apple giving stuff away is going to earn them significant dollars in the future.

[ASP272]

Man I wish I could afford some Apple stock! Go Apple!

[whooleytoo]

Man I wish I could afford some Apple stock! Go Apple!

Now would not be the time to buy, they're probably peaking now in the mid $70s, they shouldn't go too much higher in the foreseeable future.

(please, oh please don't let this be one of those messages that gets thrown back in my face for years to come.. ;) )

[stubeeef]

I really believe that rather than spending millions advertising the Mini, Apple would be better off getting them into every school.

My sister and her husband recently bought their first ever computer. I tried so hard to get them to go mac but they went Dell because that's what their kids use at school. It's hard to argue against their logic; their kids are 6 and 8 years old and can't be expected to learn 2 OSs.

Now imagine if every kid went home and said we need to get a mac. And every kid grew up using a mac. I really don't think it's far fetched to think that Apple should practically give hardware to education establishments and reap the profits that result from it.

I am raising my kids on Mac since 2yrs old, they use dell at school. They are now fluent both ways, they share an eMac and 2 older iMacs in a bonus room on AP expresses.

The market just opened and AAPL is up to over $74 and microsuk and inhell are both down today! :)

[Timelessblur]

While I agree with your overall point here, the idea that kids growing up using Macs will have a marked impact on Apple's longterm health doesn't hold. Growing up in N. California in the 80s, every school had Macs in classrooms & computer labs. Very few of my long former classmates now use Macs, I'd guess.

Perhaps the machines are now more integrated into curriculum (which you could argue creates a different sort of connection than we had). Of course, I'd love to see Macs in all schools, but I don't think Apple giving stuff away is going to earn them significant dollars in the future.

well it more the kids will default to want to use what OS they us the most (the one at home). I think apple orgainl idea was flawed in getting into school by selling cheap to them because most of those kids used PC at home and that what they where used to and more fimular with. Plus the home computer where so much better than the ones at school.

[technocoy]

i thought dells and hps WERE the lowest common demoninator?! :eek:

really. all these people talking about the amount of money in the bank and cooking the books and what-not, maybe there is something in the plan that they don't see? maybe after they have triple their 4billion profit in the bank they plan a few hostile stock buying moves. THAT would be funny. Apple might be sick of playing it nice and taking it laying down. maybe good old apple will be a majority controlling factor in a few futures? lol.

just random warm thoughts.

[shen]

I really believe that rather than spending millions advertising the Mini, Apple would be better off getting them into every school.

My sister and her husband recently bought their first ever computer. I tried so hard to get them to go mac but they went Dell because that's what their kids use at school. It's hard to argue against their logic; their kids are 6 and 8 years old and can't be expected to learn 2 OSs.

no, it is easy, why do they wish to cripple their children by shrinking their horizons when they could be broadening them? and make them learn a new OS? horror?

my kids are 3 and 6, and my daughter (the six year old) can happily use OS X. 98 and XP, anytime she is asked. she has her own user account, can switch to it, run all her math and spelling games herself, surf the web, and formally (from the menu) quit any application in all 3 systems, save documents when she creates them, and generally handles her computers better than the teachers i used to do tech support for.

kids are smart. they should be exposed to new stuff YOUNG so that they can use it later. it is the ADULTS who can't be expected to learn.

they are born as children, but if you don't open up their world, they grow into sheep.

[shen]

While I agree with your overall point here, the idea that kids growing up using Macs will have a marked impact on Apple's longterm health doesn't hold. Growing up in N. California in the 80s, every school had Macs in classrooms & computer labs. Very few of my long former classmates now use Macs, I'd guess.

you can't throw a rock in the bay area without hitting a powerbook, but maybe the bay just has taste, and school use is not the reason. :cool:

[crackpip]

My sister and her husband recently bought their first ever computer. I tried so hard to get them to go mac but they went Dell because that's what their kids use at school. It's hard to argue against their logic; their kids are 6 and 8 years old and can't be expected to learn 2 OSs.

OK, I'm going a little OT, but I gotta say I hate this kind of logic, and I totally disagree with it. Unless their are specific apps that are getting involved here, which I don't feel teachers should be requiring anyway at that age. Kids could definitely handle the differences between two or more operating systems. We're not talking about editing the registry or hacking the netinfo database, here. We're talking about finding an application the kid wants to run and double clicking it. At 8 years old, my elementary school class was using Apple DOS on the ol' IIe's. Several of my friends had PC's running MS-DOS that they new how to start they're favorite games. Kids can handle much more than we give them credit for. I am constantly amazed at what my daughter picks up.

We should be providing a broader experience in home and at school so that as kids grow they will be better equipped to handle the challenges of a rapidly evolving technological society. The same logic applies to the argument that since the business world uses windows that what I should get at home. I hate that argument even more since the time frame is usually much longer.

crackpip

[Mandril Design]

OK, let's see...

1. Everyone who loves Apple should be pleased with these results, because no matter what the net trolls say about Microsoft or real-life trolls (like John Dvorak) say about market share, a company making a profit will not go out of business.

2. Apple is not holding back on a Powerbook G5 because they want to mess with you. They would love nothing more than to sell you one, but right now it's physically impossible. Cut them some slack.

3. Apple is not like Enron, because you actually know how Apple makes its money. The rise in profits is not due to some inexplicable happenstance, but rather, due to a rise in revenues, itself due to a rise in sales.

4. The current numbers are so massive because of market growth in online music, a wave that will not rise forever, but will rise appreciably in the near future. The holiday season also comes into play.

5. One thing nobody (but me) seemed to hear is that some 40% of Mac purchases in the Apple Retail segment were by current Windows users.

6. When you bought stock at $20 a year ago, and it's trading in the $70s, you don't sell, you place a trailing stop order. Duh ;)

7. As I see it, if Apple currently holds 3% market share, that means a meager increase of 3% will double the company's market. That's pretty significant.

8. Is it a good time to buy stock in AAPL? Well, think of it this way... there are two ways to lose: buy a stock, and it goes down; don't buy a stock, and it goes up. In both cases you are going to be kicking yourself, but in the former case, you're still part-owner of the greatest computer company in history.

[Mandril Design]

We should be providing a broader experience in home and at school so that as kids grow they will be better equipped to handle the challenges of a rapidly evolving technological society. The same logic applies to the argument that since the business world uses windows that what I should get at home. I hate that argument even more since the time frame is usually much longer.

When I was a kid, they told us that when we graduated, if we didn't know how to use Bank Street Writer, we wouldn't be able to get a job. Sure would have been nice if they'd taught us computer skills instead of OS- and program-specific garbage no one would remember when we got older.

I think all users, kids and adults alike, should stop worrying about platform and concentrate on content. Use what gets the job done.

(Which is usually a Mac)

[germ war]

I will never forgive my financial advisor for stating I shouldn't buy 100 measly shares way back last February when the stock was $22. I knew Apple's star was rising, but man, the stock has more than tripled, and the new products are gonna keep it soaring.

Oh well. I can't buy much with all the money I lost instead.

[ioinc]

Just a quick question. How much Market share do you guys want Apple to gain.
I, for one love that I am part of the small Mac community. Now dont get me wrong, I would love Apple to become the dominate platform, but if that costs me security problems and viruses, then No Thanks. Just wondering what you guys think.

~Jeff

33.3%

[Mandril Design]

I will never forgive my financial advisor for stating I shouldn't buy 100 measly shares way back last February when the stock was $22. I knew Apple's star was rising, but man, the stock has more than tripled, and the new products are gonna keep it soaring.

Stock advisors and Apple always remind me of movie critics and the Farrelly brothers.

1. Come out with something.
2. "They did it last time, but this time, they will bomb."
3. Succeed wildly.
4. Repeat.

[ioinc]

In a word, no. Hardware revenue was $1.065 billion, up from $1.269 billion in the same quarter last year. A 30% increase in your HIGH margin items is nothing to sneeze at.



http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2005/jan/12results.html
1.065 is not higher than 1.269

[coconn06]

Just a quick question. How much Market share do you guys want Apple to gain.
I, for one love that I am part of the small Mac community. Now dont get me wrong, I would love Apple to become the dominate platform, but if that costs me security problems and viruses, then No Thanks. Just wondering what you guys think.

~Jeff

I want the Mac market share just high enough so that software and hardware companies always make their products work on the Mac (and web designers design for Safari as well, assuming most Mac users use Safari). But low enough that it stills feels like a great "small" community, as it currently does. Hopefully that would still be much lower market share than the Wintel world, and thus keep us away from most viruses and spyware. Ah, an ideal world!

[kiwi-in-uk]

1.065 is not higher than 1.269
The original post was


In a word, no. Hardware revenue was $1.065 billion, up from $1.269 billion in the same quarter last year. A 30% increase in your HIGH margin items is nothing to sneeze at.
rdowns made a typo - according to the data summary pdf from Apple the Q1 h/w revenue was 1.605Bn, not 1.065 which was what he typed in. So his post should have read "Hardware revenue was $1.065 billion, up from $1.269 billion in the same quarter last year."

EDIT: OK, so I blew it - should have read "Hardware revenue was $1.605 billion, up from $1.269 billion in the same quarter last year." :rolleyes:

[rdowns]

The original post was


rdowns made a typo - according to the data summary pdf from Apple the Q1 h/w revenue was 1.605Bn, not 1.065 which was what he typed in. So his post should have read "Hardware revenue was $1.065 billion, up from $1.269 billion in the same quarter last year."

You made the same typo as me. :D

[eazyway]

I will never forgive my financial advisor for stating I shouldn't buy 100 measly shares way back last February when the stock was $22. I knew Apple's star was rising, but man, the stock has more than tripled, and the new products are gonna keep it soaring.

Oh well. I can't buy much with all the money I lost instead.

Line them up and .... all they care about is their steady commissions on all their total portfolios they hold.

I lost a ton money listening to all those so called experts. (about $275,000) So I took the securities course for about $1000 and have taken over my own investing. Almost 3 yrs ago .Since then I have bounced back and have recovered all that plus some.

I have bought a lot of Apple options and leaps in the last year. For example last week I bought 3000 Apr 50 options for $15.90 a share. They now trade at $25 a share. I also bought Jan 65 options almost 9 months ago and these are yielding huge returns, cost of 70 cents now paying $8 a share. BUT you need to know what you are doing. Option trading is leverage you often lose small amounts ie buy 2,000(20 contracts) for $1400 and then turn it into $0 dollars or into $ 32,000 in 9 months. I can see Apple still having the possibilty of continueing to the upside. Right now you can buy JAN 2006 $90 calls for $5 a share. Thus if APPLE 's Mini and Shuffle take off the stock will go with to a split and it has all the makings of going to a double through this year. So if you buy 1000 shares for $5000 you will

(a) lose all or part of the money. You buy now and take one quarter to see what the shuffle and mini bring to market. Doesn't work for you take a loss then (usually less than $5000) or hold the options.

(b) If the home run is hit , then watch the double take effect and stock will split and a good chance that on Jan in 2006 your 2000 shares are now $45 options Apple is trading at around $70 a share and the net effect is you are up $50,000 . If you buy Apple shares for $5000 you will then have $10,000 or be up $5000. So in this case a double has turned into a ten bagger. Now if Apple goes one better and does this year again next year, a triple turns into $120,000 profit or a 24x gain (or 2400% for those of you who like %'s)

So with options doubles turn into larger multiples BUT you have to realize you could lose all of the money (or most of it). For you to break even Apple would have to trade up 30% by next year at $95 a share. You really HAVE to do your homework in a few stocks to be successful. Follow half a doxzen high flyers and work into it slowly.

[jettredmont]

Couldn't find exact numbers from yesterday's release other than Total, iMac, and eMac, but something is awry:

1,046,000 million Macs overall in the last quarter
337,000 iMac G5's
119,000 eMacs


That's real numbers.


The following numbers were as of mid December:

836,000 Macs overall
229,000 iMacs and eMacs
238,000 iBooks
156,000 Power Macs
213,000 Powerbooks and xServes


Apple doesn't release actual sales numbers mid-quarter for the current quarter. That would get them in severe reporting trouble with the SEC, and would create a huge amount of extra finance work (the vast majority of which is firming up end-of-quarter/year numbers to SEC reporting standards).

Those numbers, I believe, were estimates of the full-quarter numbers, based on current "burn rates". Apple released "guidance" around that time, and that's what guidance is.

So, what you're seeing is that iMac/eMac sales went way above what Apple had expected.

[VincentVega]

I couldn't be more pissed at my grandfather right now. When Apple's stock was $30, I told him to buy. Two weeks ago, I told him to buy Apple stock on January 10th. Here comes January 12th, he hasn't bought squat, and it went up $7 today...

Gosh I'm pissed...

I couldn't be more annoyed at myself. I had $11000 or so in cash lying around at the start of 2004 (lost my job, got a redundancy payment). I wish I'd spent a couple of thousand buying some Apple stock. Now all the money has gone. Oh well.

[rdowns]

NEW YORK, Jan 13 (Reuters) - Prudential Equity Group on Thursday raised its investment rating and share price target on Apple Computer Inc. , after the computer maker reported better than expected quarterly earnings on Wednesday.

Prudential upgraded Apple to an "overweight" rating from a "neutral" rating and raised the company's share price target to $93.00 from $75.00.

*********************

"(We) believe that Apple can grow its consumer share," said Banc of America Securities analyst Keith Bachman, in a note to clients. "Our survey work indicates strong brand appeal and interest in converting from Windows systems to Macs based on better media capabilities and virus protection."

Several analysts on Thursday raised their rating on Apple, including Bachman, who upgraded the stock to "buy" from "neutral." Prudential Equity Group raised its opinion to "overweight" from "neutral."


************************
Some others also raised their opinion of Apple

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ao?s=AAPL

[Kal-EL]

It took me 3 years to convice my dad to stop using DOS 6.22. Now he touts windows XP as a godsend (i installed it for him) yet every weekend i have to remove all the spyware and viruses that he gets... I keep telling him OS X, but i tell you... stupid ignorant people think windows is the shiznit and won't listen to anything you say about an alternative. The cattle MOO, and i am thinking of opening a slaughterhouse...

Dude, I'm not trying to pick on you or anything, but gramatically speaking, based on your comment, you called your father a stupid, ignorant person.
Unless that's what you were going for.

[wdlove]

Apple will need to be sure to produce the quality products that it is known for as a company. Don't want to see over exuberance about Apple harm the company. They currently have an awesome base on which to build. Customer service is going to be very important. Such as learning from all the delays that occurred with the shipping of the 2.5 G5 Power Mac. Is just a good idea to always be cautious, we don't want to harm the current reputation.

[Kal-EL]

Well, having read another poster mentioning his name, I thought I'd go and see if he had any recent comments on MWSF. I haven't seen anything yet, but in an article (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1745930,00.asp) relating to Apple's marketshare and what he predicts (as always) is Apple's doom, here is one of many comments from the article (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1745930,00.asp):
I'm now convinced that this stems mostly from Apple's inability to make the Mac a commodity computer by pricing it to compete with PCs made inexpensively in China and selling with razor-thin margins.
I wonder what he has to say now?

[themadchemist]

Wow...This is incredible...Absolutely astounding. Why haven't I had money to invest in Apple!!! AAAAH!

[m-dogg]

Remember from the keynote that most of iPods shipped only in 2004. This may repeat on the Mac. I bet we have 50 million Mac users this time next year. It will start out with the techies and first adopters and work that way down to the cattle.

Moo!

The halo effect will not be overnight - It's actually doing better than I expected at this point - I got an iPod a couple months after they became available on Windows, but I just switched to an iMac this month.

I never really knew anything about Macs prior to my iPod. I fell in love with that, and then an Apple Store opened near my house soon after and I quickly became exposed to (and fell in love with) Macs. However, my windows PC was still in good shape so I put it off until now.

In addition, I already responsible for getting my brother to buy an iMac before I switched myself - He doesn't have an iPod but he loved the iMac design. He wasn't crazy about the price compared to other machines, but I compared it to the Sony TV's he is willing to pay more for and he got it enough that he drove up to visit the Apple store to look at them and see if the differences between XP & OSX would bother him (he's not a techie at all). Two hours after playing around with them he walked out with his own!

So to make a long story short, I think this is only the beginning of a long term shift of home users towards apple...

[jettredmont]

kids are smart. they should be exposed to new stuff YOUNG so that they can use it later. it is the ADULTS who can't be expected to learn.

they are born as children, but if you don't open up their world, they grow into sheep.

I agree 100%. Our kids (8 and under, youngest being 4) use PCs at school and Macs at home. They handle user accounts and basic program/file manipulation just fine on the Mac. The PCs at school don't have user accounts to deal with, but they handle the crashing and basic program/fie manipulation there just fine as well.

We also have a PC at home for them to use. I think it's particularly telling that they rarely, if ever, use it (only if their Mac is in use, they can't beg me to use my Mac, and they really really have to get something done). They couldn't care less that the OS is different from the one they use at school.

[jettredmont]

Well, having read another poster mentioning his name, I thought I'd go and see if he had any recent comments on MWSF. I haven't seen anything yet, but in an article (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1745930,00.asp) relating to Apple's marketshare and what he predicts (as always) is Apple's doom, here is one of many comments from the article (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1745930,00.asp):
I'm now convinced that this stems mostly from Apple's inability to make the Mac a commodity computer by pricing it to compete with PCs made inexpensively in China and selling with razor-thin margins.
I wonder what he has to say now?

That article came out at the height of the headless-Mac rumors. I took it as a cheap attempt to put something in print so that now he can say "Finally Apple listened to my advice!" Expect part 2 of this little shell game any day now.

And no, that's not beneath the "great" Dvorack. He's one of the lowest of the Microsoft-funded PC Mag slimeballs who's more interested in flaming and page views than in reporting or researched opinion.

[jmurray]

Apple doesn't release actual sales numbers mid-quarter for the current quarter. That would get them in severe reporting trouble with the SEC, and would create a huge amount of extra finance work (the vast majority of which is firming up end-of-quarter/year numbers to SEC reporting standards).

Those numbers, I believe, were estimates of the full-quarter numbers, based on current "burn rates". Apple released "guidance" around that time, and that's what guidance is.

So, what you're seeing is that iMac/eMac sales went way above what Apple had expected.

That makes perfect sense, thanks jettredmont!

I was asuming the second list of numbers were from mid December only because it didn't make sense that they "actual" numbers for Q4 could have been that far off, and why would they be released before end of year. So releases of numbers before the quarter is up are nothing more than projections? Is that correct?

[pair-a-dice]

Though there haven't been commericials advertising anything besides the iPod (at least I haven't seen any recently), I noticed that Best Buy now has Powerbooks on their website and I believe they are going to carry some models at their physical locations too (I'm in the Daytona Beach, FL area)

[Steven1621]

I can proudly say I added a bunch to that number. Odd when people are proud they help a company make money.

[mustang_dvs]

So, now that Apple's on a roll, how long do you think it will be before some Tech Writer (*cough*Dvorak*cough*) or investment firm writes a flashy article that uses the ever-popular "Beleaguered" to predict that Apple's time is nigh?

:rolleyes:

(I'll reply to my own post.)

We have a WINNER!

And it took even less time than I could have expected in my most jaded dreams. I present to you, straight from Canada's National Post: Jobs' Apple gets down and dirty (http://www.canada.com/national/nationalpost/columnists/story.html?id=a71e4547-e7af-47ed-bc5c-882c5e719c90) by Paul Kedrosky.

...Because Apple has a problem. Most of the company's growth in recent years has come from its foray into consumer electronics. From a standing start only a few years ago, the company's popular iPod music player has becoming a standout performer, accounting for something like 30% of the company's sales -- and more sales units than the company's Macintosh personal computers...

...Hence the company's announcements this week. Far from being forward-thinking and strategic, Jobs was busily shoring up a currently foundering product line -- Apple's over-priced Macintosh -- by leveraging a soon-to-be foundering product line -- Apple's iPod...

(No, he doesn't actually use the B-word, but he gets the spirit of the contest, for sure.)

[k2k koos]

GO APPLE!!!!! :-)

It is a long way up hill, but the introduction of the Mac Mini might just see Apple go back to two digit marketshares, and that is a good thing!These figures look good, and that was before the Mac mini!
just keep the thing updated swiftly and put dualcore e 600's in there as soon as they become available, that will also put an end to all those hesitant because the performance lacks behind the PC's of similar prices(********* if you ask me, the G4 is a good enough CPU for everyday use, word processing, surfing, mailing, and digital photo's and music.... When you start editing your own movies in iMovie etc , perhaps then you need something with a bit more "oompf" to keep waiting times down....)

There will always be those hardcore PC fanatics, and each to their own, it's their loss (in my view, perhaps not in others).... :-)

[fastred]

Just a quick question. How much Market share do you guys want Apple to gain.
I, for one love that I am part of the small Mac community. Now dont get me wrong, I would love Apple to become the dominate platform, but if that costs me security problems and viruses, then No Thanks. Just wondering what you guys think.

~Jeff

Actually, 10% would be nice.... seriously....

Jeremy

[SiliconAddict]

Well, having read another poster mentioning his name, I thought I'd go and see if he had any recent comments on MWSF. I haven't seen anything yet, but in an article (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1745930,00.asp) relating to Apple's marketshare and what he predicts (as always) is Apple's doom, here is one of many comments from the article (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1745930,00.asp):
I'm now convinced that this stems mostly from Apple's inability to make the Mac a commodity computer by pricing it to compete with PCs made inexpensively in China and selling with razor-thin margins.
I wonder what he has to say now?

Actually John has really warmed up to the mini. I don't have a clue where the article is but he was skeptically optimistic as “being the first Mac he could recommend in a long time.”

[dernhelm]

(I'll reply to my own post.)

We have a WINNER!

(No, he doesn't actually use the B-word, but he gets the spirit of the contest, for sure.)

Wow - this guy is a total dolt. Here's another clip:


It is as if BMW suddenly tried to undercut Honda's Accord or Toyota's Camry. While there's no denying there is a large market for value-priced cars, by competing directly against those products BMW would be putting its margins at risk. More importantly, it would be ample reason for investors to wonder whether BMW executives had lost their minds. Why would they suddenly abandon what they did best -- engineering interesting products -- and start trying to sell family econo-boxes?


You mean like the Mini-Cooper? :rolleyes:

[Kal-EL]

Actually John has really warmed up to the mini. I don't have a clue where the article is but he was skeptically optimistic as “being the first Mac he could recommend in a long time.”

Here's the article (http://cbs.marketwatch.com/news/story.asp?guid=%7B9DE121D7-0280-42AB-92BD-C9E97BD832A8%7D&siteid=google&dist=google).

[Mord]

Now if only this success could be attributed to stellar Macintosh sales, instead of the damned iPod.

Don't get me wrong, i'm happy for Apple. But its obvious that Mac sales have not really increased due to the populatiry of the iPod like Apple originally hoped.

+20% mac sales is pretty damn good, that would push the 2% market share up to 2.4%

[psingh01]

I couldn't be more pissed at my grandfather right now. When Apple's stock was $30, I told him to buy. Two weeks ago, I told him to buy Apple stock on January 10th. Here comes January 12th, he hasn't bought squat, and it went up $7 today...

Gosh I'm pissed...

Hehe, I bought some when it was at $16 :D

[Earendil]

Good. http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/images/smiles/icon_evil.gif
They deserve it for not getting on the PowerBook issue before it became one in the first place. Hope PB sales tank further until they can actually come out with something that isn’t craptastic. :mad:

Ok, I'm pretty sick and tired of people saying that we should all have a 64bit Laptop. As a 1.25 mgz G4 Powerbook owner I can say that this comp is HELLA fast. I'm dead serious. I can still smoke thicker fatter noisier P4 based windows laptops.

I also consider myself a power user. Just the other day I was in the lab, connected to a 19" flat screen doing Web App development. I was working in Macromedia Flash, Photoshop, Safari, FireFox, TacoHTML, Word, PowerPoint, not to mention having mail, Adium, and iTunes open. My computer handled all this, on two screens, with ease. When I got bored I would just sit there and hit the Expose button and watch 16 windows on two screens split and contract flawlessly. It was an amazing experience. I've dabbled in Video editing, and have done movie format/codec conversation, and I'll admit that that could use some extra oomph. But really people, what are you using that is making a G4 chip choke? Or do you just want that file converted in 90% of the time?

We all lust for more power, but let's not trash on the G4 powerbooks when they are doing MORE than an adequate job, especially for 99.9% of the users that own them. There isn't a feature or port on this computer that I feel I'm missing out on. Though I must admit, this new bluetooth makes me thing my computer might finally start showing some age with outdated tech :(

Now, I would give up a G5 chip any day for more battery life, which is lacking. Also a larger faster HD would be very nice too, but that isn't up to Apple...

~Tyler

ps
If a G4 laptop isn't fast enough for you, look into getting a G5 tower...

edit: for coherency...

[diehldun]

why so many people voted 'negative'...

why is this negative news??? :confused:

[Earendil]

why so many people voted 'negative'...

why is this negative news??? :confused:

Apparently, after reading this thread, it's because they all sold their stock at $20 :rolleyes: :D

[MOFS]

(I'll reply to my own post.)

We have a WINNER!

And it took even less time than I could have expected in my most jaded dreams. I present to you, straight from Canada's National Post: Jobs' Apple gets down and dirty (http://www.canada.com/national/nationalpost/columnists/story.html?id=a71e4547-e7af-47ed-bc5c-882c5e719c90) by Paul Kedrosky.



(No, he doesn't actually use the B-word, but he gets the spirit of the contest, for sure.)

Perhaps whats most confusing about this guys article is the fact that he's actually doing what he says he hates - publicising Apple "even though they've only got 3% market share"! I don't think he properly realises that Apple and iMacs and iPods in particular are now part of our culture - genre defining, people defining items. He's just too dumb not to realise that, and the innovations coming from Cupertino. :rolleyes:

[timster]

Ok, I'm pretty sick and tired of people saying that we should all have a 64bit Laptop. As a 1.25 mgz G4 Powerbook owner I can say that this comp is HELLA fast. I'm dead serious. I can still smoke thicker fatter noisier P4 based windows laptops.

<snip>



Agree with you 101% (one percent for each of the stores!).

The problem is, Apple/Steve have done too good a job convincing people that the G5 is such a much more powerful chip.

The reality is, for non-bus speed dependent applications (ie, the majority), then clock-for-clock a G4 is just as fast as a G5.

Consider this: when 1.67 GHz PowerBook G4s come out soon, they'll outpace both an iMac G5 and a Power Mac G5 1.6 GHz for many apps that don't depend on bus speed or disk speed (which is always going to be a limiting factor in a laptop anyway).

Plus, G4 altivec is faster than G5 altivec at the same clock speed.

But because they "know" the chip with the bigger number is faster, people have to whine for their damn PowerBook G5!

[Hattig]

Well, if Apple aren't going to get the G5 into the PowerBook anytime soon, then I predict (low probability of it actually happening, 20%?) that Apple might do something a bit more interesting in the near future. More interesting than mere 1.5 and 1.67GHz upgrades.

Sure, dual core isn't here yet, but the G4 obviously handles dual processor fine.

If a G4 can run at 1.67GHz in a Powerbook within heat and power consumption bounds, then what would it eat at 1.2GHz? 1.4GHz? If you can find a speed where you can cut power consumption in half (drop the voltage), yet the processor's speed is at least ~65% of the compared processor, then creating a standard dual processor laptop would lead to a definite increase in overall performance.

Sure, you've got to fit that extra processor into the case - it might only be viable for the 17", or maybe the 15" with a prayer. Would you buy a 2x1.25GHz PowerBook, or a 1.67GHz PowerBook?

Another reason for Apple to do this would be to beat the dual-core laptops from AMD/Intel within the next year. AMD are confident of releasing a 30W TDP dual-core processor at 1.4GHz for example. That's cool enough for a laptop in the PC arena. That processor will be on the market by the end of this year, most likely by October. Never underestimate the power of being able to say "We got there first". Luckily Apple won't compromise their design principles and make a crap laptop just to get that accolade. Hurrah for the PowerBook DP / D4 / ??.

[MontyZ]

Boy, am I glad I bought Apple Stock when it was cheap!

[mobility3]

to me this raise some major red flags. It just seem to much of an increase for one year time spand. doing double digitigs % increase is high but doing triple jsut seems like something questionble is up.

I just like to say remeber enron and they where doing great and where stating this very high profit margins. Everyone believe them for a while now you have to wonder if apple is really starting to watch there stock prices and trying to make sure they keep rising by ajusting there books somewhatly. (there are tons of little dirty accounting secrets that allow for this and remember apple is for making money first and for most and high stock prices help them make more money)

Yes, but Enron was a bunch of dirty criminal republicans manipulating the energy market, their accounting books and therefore the hopes and lives of stock holders. They also used their Washington connections to change the laws and deregulate government oversight to furthur hide their dubious actions (Excuse this flame... but in my opinion they represent the downfall of America).

Apple is a profit mongering corporation like any other but they deliver a solid product and foster innovation which is a much more honest way of taking on the competition and earning your way. With or wthout the investors we've seen Apple hang in there. Way to go :D

[Tomaz]

+20% mac sales is pretty damn good, that would push the 2% market share up to 2.4%

Not really, if the computer market itself grew more than 20% (which it did), then Apple can even lose market share (which is what actually happened). We're around 1.8% now, as far as I remember. Sad!

[painimies]

The halo effect will not be overnight - It's actually doing better than I expected at this point - I got an iPod a couple months after they became available on Windows, but I just switched to an iMac this month.

...Since no-one else said it: welcome!

previously, every switch story was greeted with a good many welcome's, but I guess soon there'll be so much of those that we wouldn't have time to do anything else than to greet the enlightened. :)

Just goes to show...

By the way, great post, m-dogg.

[heywhynots]

About market share, overall market share is not what is important. There are different markets.

home/personal computing
education
research
publishing
web design
graphics/video
small business
corporate
gaming
server

Sure you can come up with more markets and subdivide them but it is not the point. A good percentage of computers are bought in a corporate setting. Apple gets killed in this market. Apple probably doesn’t even register as a blip. This kills Apple’s overall market share and probably a big reason why Apple’s market share keeps dropping. When it comes to software, this doesn’t hurt Apple.

The gaming market Apple is week and will continue to be weak. Consoles designed for gaming though dominate this market. Apple is trying with the server market and any gains here are positive for the company.

The other markets though do matter when it comes to software availability and whether the brand survives. I would say Apple is strong in web design, graphics and publishing. They have to keep pushing IBM if they are going to maintain this segment. They are growing in the research realm because of the UNIX underpinnings. Where Apple has lost in recent years is in the educational realm. The eMac and iMac have helped stop the bleeding in these markets (the G5 iMac being a great computer for universities IMHO). I would say to keep a strong educational presence, Apple still needs to keep turning out eMacs especially for the K-5 crowd. The Mac mini’s are going to help some. The other major market is home/personal computing. I don’t know what Apple’s percentage is here but I believe this is where they are pushing to expand and where the Mac minis really come into play. Products like the iPods and Airport Express help out a great deal in this market as well. Apple is looking to expand in this market not only by getting home Windows users to switch but also to encourage more current Apple users to buy a 2nd (or 3rd etc) desktop computer for home. The mini Macs are perfect for this.

If Apple holds on in the educational, publishing, graphics, etc markets and expands in the home & research realms then I think they will do just fine even if their overall market share drops. Pushing laptop development for the PowerBooks is a must for this to happen. If Apple drops in the education and home markets, then it is in trouble. From what I have seen though, Apple is pushing hard in these markets and should be just fine (which is why they have been a successful company despite the naysayers).

Does anyone know what Apple’s market share is for home/personal computers? In the education market? That is the important data not overall market share.

[Paul Sop]

to me this raise some major red flags. It just seem to much of an increase for one year time spand. doing double digitigs % increase is high but doing triple jsut seems like something questionble is up.

While likening Apple to Enron is hardly an apt comparison, there are a few things to be watchful for. First, you can't have infinitely sustainable growth. No one can begrudge Apple for having a hot product that people want, and it's great that people lap those products up as fast as they can pump them out.. The stock is going up based on the expectation that it will go up more -- apple will continue pumping out industry leading products that people will gobble up. What about market saturation? Just how many iPods can someone own?

I am concerned that the increased market expectations will force more of a cultural revolution at Apple -- how will they manage their Down-Mid-Upmarket/Server customer base in balanced way and still be known as Apple? They'll have to do some strong brand engineering so that people can be comfortable with an Apple that makes 99 dollar MP3 players as well as Storage Area Networks. Does it make sense that the Apple Store shows Storage Area Networks beside 99 dollar MP3 players? They need to evolve the, and god I love this term, 'brand experience', so that they can grow these different areas of their business appropriately. I think their image is a jumble now, with 'Servers, Displays, Portables, Education, Technology, Digital Life, Services', etc... all being a jumble on their Hardware page (go check it out! It's all over the map! It's like Minimalist done Jackson Pollock). They do so much, and are trying to get it across in a minimalistic-communicative pretense -- risky (i.e. let's get into the head space of a 'new customer' -- that hasn't been inducted into all the Apple Lore -- it's a mess).

---

My thoughts on Apple's Strategy, and what I think they could do in the future (besides hiring me as a strategist):


Apple's strategy clearly tries to get people to upgrade whatever technology they sell if not every year, at least every two years. They've built fashion into their products, so to be 'hip', you have to buy the latest sexy container. Average (non affluent) people have always been put off the fact that Apple fashion technology is pretty expensive. I see the 'downmarket' move as really adopting the Target philosophy, and making fashion affordable, so everyone can have fun being cool. It's a great strategy, and I love it.

However, there are still lots of people who don't shop at Target, and want somewhat more exclusive 'Fashion Technology'. The 'Power Mac' line Apple sells should, in my opinion, *STAY EXPENSIVE* become radically better than 'high end PC's'. I couldn't imagine G5 laptops or G5 mini's until there was a carbon fiber water cooled dual CPU dual core G6 type monster, with a giant FPGA array or some such insanity. I'd buy one of those. Heck, I definately need two more 30" monitors.

I see apple starting to drop hints at the server / grid computing strategy, and while XSAN is great (and a must for any large production environment), I think that the Mini, and how they presented the big Virginia Tech super computing grid right before it is a subtle hint of what they're thinking of. I'd love to not have to buy a '1U server'. I'd love to buy a 'Mac Module' and just add its horse-power to my grid. You see evidence of this in Logic as well. One way Apple may be able to get around the single-server CPU barrier, without the high cost of entry of building a Super Computer, is to essentially build grid clustering into Macs in general, and make the entire suite use the Grid seamlessly (for rendering, compiling, etc...). Little MacModules with infiniband connectors would be ideal. Want to run more plugins in Logic 7, get some Mac Modules. Want to render that DVD faster? again, Mac Modules. Taking what they've learned with their Super Computer experiences and bringing those down-market and plug-and-play (I imagine "Infinitely Expandable") is a great way to sell. Each CPU could be something like a G5 in a slightly slimmer form factor than the Mac Mini, without a hard drive/CDROM (i.e. network boot from a master server). Gosh, I'd buy 20, maybe more if the fans were quiet!

- Paul Sop
www.paulsop.com

[wdlove]

Apparently, after reading this thread, it's because they all sold their stock at $20 :rolleyes: :D

I don't own any stock at all for that reason. The prevailing advice would seem to be the best at least with Apple. You should buy and hold for the long term. Only a fraction can actually make money at the gambling game.

[Timelessblur]

Yes, but Enron was a bunch of dirty criminal republicans manipulating the energy market, their accounting books and therefore the hopes and lives of stock holders. They also used their Washington connections to change the laws and deregulate government oversight to furthur hide their dubious actions (Excuse this flame... but in my opinion they represent the downfall of America).

Apple is a profit mongering corporation like any other but they deliver a solid product and foster innovation which is a much more honest way of taking on the competition and earning your way. With or wthout the investors we've seen Apple hang in there. Way to go :D


appently no one under stands what I was meaning by using Erron as an example. Other wise it just seems to good to be true. I never said I did not think apple was making proffic but they could be inflating there profic some whatly which is very diffent than blantly lieing as bad as erron. After Erron a lot of company where caught inflating there margens for stock reason. Still goes on a lot more than you think.

Remember if something is 2 good to be true it more than likely is. Apple is starting to get close ot that for my taste and the stock is doing pretty much to well.

[sinisterdesign]

not that Sun is a major competitor to Apple, but this just makes a stark contrast to Apple's quarterly results:

"For the second quarter ended Dec. 26, the Santa Clara, Calif.-based company said it had net income of $19 million, or 1 cent per share.
...
Shares of Sun fell to $4.35 after closing at $4.58 on Nasdaq. At the height of the dot-com and telecommunications booms in 2000, the stock traded as high as $64 a share.

way to go Apple...

[gwangung]

appently no one under stands what I was meaning by using Erron as an example. Other wise it just seems to good to be true. I never said I did not think apple was making proffic but they could be inflating there profic some whatly which is very diffent than blantly lieing as bad as erron. After Erron a lot of company where caught inflating there margens for stock reason. Still goes on a lot more than you think.

Remember if something is 2 good to be true it more than likely is. Apple is starting to get close ot that for my taste and the stock is doing pretty much to well.

Not really.

You're just looking at the raw numbers, and not how they were generated. Where is the profit coming from? Two areas: modest rise in iMac sales and other CPUs, and from extremely high iPod sales. Both of these pass the sniff test--they are very plausible occurrences, and are not out of line from past behavior.

Or are you saying that the popularity and ubiquity of iPods are illusory?

[Timelessblur]

the flags that have raise my red flags are
how much has the stock increased over the past year? several 100% I believe

How much has the proffic increase over the past year? again a few 100%

How much as gross income increase? I think it under 20% but dont hold me to 2 it. but I know it no one keeping pass with the profic increase.

Those are where my red flags are coming up. It seems well to good to be true 9 time out of 10 when something is 2 good to be true general it is.

remove the I love apple blinders everyone has on and think if some other company pulled an increase like apple did. not one that you really cared about but saw those type of increase. what would you think? it should raise a few red flags to you.

[TheMasin9]

Maybe because they don't advertise the damn things!

Cool software, nope no adverts
Cool hardware, nope no adverts
ipod... well...

It might take them another 21 years to do so however... thats only because its taken them 21 years to finally have a "computer for the masses".

They havn't even advertised the G5 iMac yet and thats crazy, more so when they have $$$ in the bank but rely on a supposed halo effect to do it for them!

We all know how great apple products are and how they arent advertising a great amount, but you have to think about it. If apple starts to advertise via internet, television, email, anything, they are goin to have to figure out how to distribute as well as produce. There are not very many apple stores now, and that will have to change. I think that the Mini Stores should be seriously considered by apple in the near future if they want to drastically increase thier sales. Apple knows that they are goin huge here, so they are going to do the right thing. Remember, its apple folks, they know what they are doing.

[xsnightclub]

Not really, if the computer market itself grew more than 20% (which it did), then Apple can even lose market share (which is what actually happened). We're around 1.8% now, as far as I remember. Sad!

I believe the numbers for 2004 were around 12% market growth.

http://www.forbes.com/2004/11/22/1122automarketscan10.html

This article is from Nov 22, 2004, well before this weeks Mac mini announcement and there was positive news on Apple then.

[Poff]

This is great news for Apple!

And as I said, if they released a $99 256MB iPod I'd buy it in a heartbeat, now at 512MB it is even better! I wonder how this new Shuffle-thing, and the Mac Mini will affect sales. If they will grab a piece of the other Mac-sales and iPod sales (probably will), and also how much they'll add to the total!

Exciting times! :D

[Poff]

I believe the numbers for 2004 were around 12% market growth.

http://www.forbes.com/2004/11/22/1122automarketscan10.html

This article is from Nov 22, 2004, well before this weeks Mac mini announcement and there was positive news on Apple then.

I looked at that attachment of yours, but I guess Apple will show higher growth-rates than that. Why? It will eat into Wintel-sales! :D

[wwworry]

the flags that have raise my red flags are
how much has the stock increased over the past year? several 100% I believe

How much has the proffic increase over the past year? again a few 100%

How much as gross income increase? I think it under 20% but dont hold me to 2 it. but I know it no one keeping pass with the profic increase.

Those are where my red flags are coming up. It seems well to good to be true 9 time out of 10 when something is 2 good to be true general it is.


Except you have to look at that starting point of last year. There are many that say that the stock was way undervalued at that time. There was a time not so long ago that the stock was worth LESS than the cash they had in the bank. Meaning you could buy all the stock, take the money out of the bank, leave the rest and still make a profit.

But stocks are usually valued by future earnings potential. For instance Toyota is valued more than GM which is a much larger company.

The only thing I would worry about with apple is that day when everyone has an iPod. Maybe they were smart to make the batteries hard to service. But I think there is a lot of room for growth in CPU sales. Almost everyone I know with a mac would be getting an upgrade if they bought a mini.

[xsnightclub]

I looked at that attachment of yours, but I guess Apple will show higher growth-rates than that. Why? It will eat into Wintel-sales! :D

You are quite right. I was going off estimates from a Nov 22,2004 article as I said. I have found an article dated today from Globeandmail.com in their Tech section. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20050115.wapple-cover15/BNStory/Technology/

'According to financial results released this week, sales of Macintosh computers jumped 26 per cent compared with the year-earlier quarter — double the growth rate for the rest of the computer business. For the first time in eons, Apple is gaining market share.
"The company could have begun a market share breakout story that could last for the foreseeable future," Steven Fortuna, an analyst at Prudential Equity Group LLC wrote in research note last week.'

'But investors can take heart from the company's balance sheet. Apple's cash increased by $1.5-billion in its most recent quarter and now stands at $6.5-billion or a whopping $15.40 per share — all with no debt.'

The article is good reading and even begins with reminiscing of how 'Expert' Michael Dell predicted the demise of Apple Computer.

Dude, you're eating crow.

[jaredbbauer]

to me this raise some major red flags. It just seem to much of an increase for one year time spand. doing double digitigs % increase is high but doing triple jsut seems like something questionble is up.

I just like to say remeber enron and they where doing great and where stating this very high profit margins. Everyone believe them for a while now you have to wonder if apple is really starting to watch there stock prices and trying to make sure they keep rising by ajusting there books somewhatly. (there are tons of little dirty accounting secrets that allow for this and remember apple is for making money first and for most and high stock prices help them make more money)

You have got to be kidding me!! Have you ever taken an accounting class or economics? Or really actually studied what happened at Enron? Go back... do your research... then try again and hopefully you won't sound so "ignorant".

[timster]

begins with reminiscing of how 'Expert' Michael Dell predicted the demise of Apple Computer.

Dude, you're eating crow.

Yes, I believe the quote was: "They should close the doors and give any money left back to the shareholders."

God I hate Dell's cheap gray ****, and I hate it when all the people around here buy Dell monitors to plug into their Macs!

[gwangung]

the flags that have raise my red flags are
how much has the stock increased over the past year? several 100% I believe

How much has the proffic increase over the past year? again a few 100%

How much as gross income increase? I think it under 20% but dont hold me to 2 it. but I know it no one keeping pass with the profic increase.

Those are where my red flags are coming up. It seems well to good to be true 9 time out of 10 when something is 2 good to be true general it is.

remove the I love apple blinders everyone has on and think if some other company pulled an increase like apple did. not one that you really cared about but saw those type of increase. what would you think? it should raise a few red flags to you.

Please don't be so simple minded. Your conclusion does not, in any way, come from the arguments that you make. (And, by the way, your figures are totally incorrect)

Try again. And take into account the new products introduced over the last three years.

[Eastend]

Please don't be so simple minded. Your conclusion does not, in any way, come from the arguments that you make. (And, by the way, your figures are totally incorrect)

Try again. And take into account the new products introduced over the last three years.

Whatever, all I know is the guy who is right across the hall from me here in the office, he makes day trades. The other day Apple had a double digit per cent increase in stock price, he made a killing. I gave him my congratulations, believe me he was soooo happy.

Brian

[CandyApple]

Hey guys, first post. Lurked for awhile but I thought, hey, why not supplement my regular social interaction with e-comradery.

Back in 99', when I was in college, me and a buddy started a web design company and we went at it for about a year. We actually made good money and in 2000 I decided to invest the bulk of what I made into Apple.

Everyone thought I was crazy (parents, friends, everybody). My buddy took his share and put it in to Merck, and in his first year made over 40% return. I made like -25%.

For three long years I wondered if in fact I was crazy as my belief in Apple as a company allowed me to watch my money dwindle as the stock took a rollercoaster ride downward. I though about selling for a loss many times, but every time I tried, my roomates Flower Power iMac would disperse a pollen that made me nauseous.

So, anyhow, by now you know how the story turns out. Each share I bought at $21 bucks is now worth $70. And each share of my buddies Merck that he bought at $75 is now worth $31.

And with all the riches I made I bought a Mac Mini, a Shuffle, and my buddies wife. :D

So long live Apple (and screw Michael Dell), and everyone who bought back in the years when it wasn't so clear they would make it, may they reap the profits. (And reap them like right now, seriously. It's too good not to sell at least a little. You know, for a trip to Vegas.)