Newton Technology and the iWalk

[MacRumors]

With the recent hype surrounding the iWalk videos... it's become apparent that a large number of Mac users have no idea what the Newton was really like. Many comments included describing the UI of the iWalk as a scaled down OS X... while it was clearly an updated Newton OS (with some aqua features).

The final straw, however, was this comment by a Go2Mac user which made it to the main Go2Mac (http://www.go2mac.com) page. This was part of his "evidence" that the iWalk is a fraud:

Lastly, the unit would not handle cursive handwriting (rather than printing) that well, especially having no time to 'learn' the handwriting of the user in the video. The dot written over the 'i' is also unlikely, as is the prototype's ability to recognize the end of each word (and written anywhere on the screen).

Sadly - this person is completely ignorant of the technology that existed about 9 years ago - which peaked around 5 years ago. The handwriting of the Newton worked exactly like that (could do cursive, didn't have to be trained). And to try to educate the Mac faithful, I generated a few of movies depicting an actual 1997 Newton in action. You can dissect these videos if you like - but I assure you - they are a real (5 year old) product (Newton 2000).

Say Hello to Newton (http://homepage.mac.com/weeno/.Movies/newtonsayhello.mov)
Newton Assistant (http://homepage.mac.com/weeno/.Movies/newtonassistant.mov)
The Newton Clipboard (http://homepage.mac.com/weeno/.Movies/newtonclipboard.mov)
Newton Trashcan (http://homepage.mac.com/weeno/.Movies/newtontrash.mov)

(note: I 'printed' in this video - mostly because I stopped writing cursive in middle-school... but the Newton is very capable of recognizing cursive)<>

[squidink]

It's soooo nice to see Newton vids. Apple rocks. Kudos to the poster.

[mcbane]

I forgot how much newtons rock in comparison to todays PDA's. apple certainly does rock.

[arn]

I made those videos, btw...

things to note:

In the Newton Assistant video. Blake's full name/contact info is automatically pulled from the addressbook app, and placed in the datebook app. It also knew that lunch would happen around noon.

arn

[Osirisis]

All I can say is WOW!!!! I didn't know PDAs could be so cool. WTF is up with all the other PDA manufactures. This many years later and they still haven't gotten on the ball.

[cynical]

I miss my MP2K.

[ennerseed]

please let there be an iWalk thats an aquafied updated newton!!!!!!

[MacNut]

everyone knows the newton failed because it was ahead of its time but is apple too late to get back into the pda game. palm is looseing market share to pocket pc can apple seriously make a run at the pda market??

[sprescott1974]

if we don't get an apple branded handheld/tablet on monday i'm buying a newton on ebay and throwing out my stupid handspring. who needs to hotsync anyway.

[ZACINCCEO]

This is a bit out there but look at the first video, then look at teh spymac picture/video (s) of the so called "iWalk" the Stylus (s) seem to be the same, flared base... etc, very interesting, this might give a bit of credibility, don't bash me I am just throwing this out there.
-Zac

[SPG]

I used to use a Newton to fax in orders through a cell phone back in 1994 (maybe 95?). It was nice to be able to do that, but for me it and all PDA's are just not as flexible as pen and paper. Case in point was always a note about a phone number...had to put that soemplace else. The Newton was close and if they had kept it up maybe it would be an amazing product now, but the current PDA's are mostly glorified address books.
The PDA market is shrinking these days and I think it will be overtaken by hybrid phone/PDA devices like the Danger hiptop. The perfect PDA would be about the size of a cell phone, BE a cell phone, have addresses, a mini keyboard, internet, and be affordable. Combine all those features like the Danger does, and then why do you need a PDA at all?
I'd rather have a cell phone with more features than carry a cell, wallet, keys, and a PDA...even with cargo pants it's too much stuff, maybe I need a "European Man's Carry-All."

[sparkleytone]

its a purse.

[evildead]

...of getting a PDA... but all the ones out there just dont do it for me. The few that look really cool... are really expensive. I wouldnt sepent $500 on a toy that I coundt syic with my Mac. If Apple came out with one... then I might just get one. Sharp is comming out with one soon that runs a verion of Linux. That one looked pretty cool. It has a pull out keybord built into it. Sleek body and great potential for lots of apps. They are running a contest right now for Linux developers $20,000 is first prize for the best App for this new Sharp. Im almost temped to get one... but I really want one from Apple. I know its probably not going to happen but those iWalk movies did get me a bit exited. I hope that they are real. Too bad spyMac is kind of a crappy site and they have been envolded with hoaxas before. They did a dam good job of a hoax this time... if it is a hoax.

[Newborn77]

a *man's* purse

[ItsFriday]

iWalk is a walkman prototype. I agree, a PDA is coming but iWalk is a hoax using beta hardware.

Ever seen a color PDA with a grey screen at power off?
What color are apple's LCD displays at power off?

The 'iWalkOS' we saw was running on hardware with a grey screen at power off, then becomes white with colored graphics at boot up.

PDA is coming.. It won't be called Newton cause of the whole Scully is a dirtbad thing :)

[Sayer]

The iWalk fake video takes many cues from the Newton OS in the way it looks and works. But do not jump to the conclusion that the iWalk is thus more likely to be real. It only means that someone was inspired by the awesome tech of Apple in the early 90's when making their fake video.

Notice how the disclaimer on the SpyMac.com website addresses all of the major problems with their video's credibility (the inconsistent action between human and object, German voices and Euro-style outlet on the surface of the desk - how convenient).

The Newton was an awesome product that was too bulky and expensive for its time. A thinner Newton or even a cheaper model could have competed with the absolutely pathetic first Palm Pilots and Sharp Wizards and whatnot.

Newton was trully a handheld computer, not just a glorified electronic address/datebook a la Palm.

That being said I will probably get a Visor Edge with my tax refund (among other things). Tre-Star Trekian.

Of course Steve Jobs can get my money if they intro a PDA/Newton for the 21st century Monday.

[Cyprinus]

iWalk won't make a single step:

Their text about how they secured everything to prevent the source to be blown is doubtfull. If you look just a little harder you can make out a time and date on the screen of the so-called iWalk (Apple would never ever use such a lame name!, at least for a PDA) which, if not temperred with, could give Apple a clue who had possesion of this device(s) at that time and day, IF IT EXISTS. Me?, I do not believe (I don't want to believe). Also it is extremely big for something most people put in there pocket like you do with a PDA (I would have to buy a new coat just for this thing).

But my point, everyone is staring themselfs blind on this supposed new hardware. Oké the new iMac will be shown, but the thing nobody talks about might be the thing Apple is hyping. SOFTWARE! Don't be surprised if Apple's got a beauty like iTunes or iMovie up their sleeves.

[lera]

I was hopeing that someone would show off a real newton, thank you arn. Also I was hoping that somone would point out the fake-ness and impossability of the bronze/grey display turning white at startup. if it's colour and from apple it aught to be black at startup like the visor and Sony pda's. I'm not saying that that device itself doesn't exist I'm saying that that device doesn't run that OS at least not that beautifuly.

[kainjow]

I have a Newton 2000 right now. Let me tell you, that screen on the iWalk video looks EXACTLY like Apple upgraded the Newton's OS to look more modern and match with their OS X. If you haven't used a Newton 2000/2001 recently, go find one and use it. You'll see how similiar it is to the iWalk's screen. I just don't see how the iWalk's OS is completely false. Maybe the hardware, but the screen just looks too much like an updated Newton. EXACTLY like an updated Newton. Trust me, I was just using my Newton and it's soooo similar to the iWalk. Including the actual size of the hardware.

[Traeglmorf]

GREAT pictures of the Newton, but did you notice how all the video is shot while the unit's not moving around (much easier to fake) and there's absolutely no way Apple would ever make a BLACK device! LOL... people seem awfully sure of themselves that the iWalk stuff is fake. We know that Steve said he wouldn't release a PDA, but what about something similar in form, but expanded in feature? Like a thin client version of your desktop that fit in your pocket? Taking 'computers where they've never been before'...???

One can only dream (and squirrel cash away in rabid anticipation;)

I'm gonna go get re-acquainted with my ol'2100- the flurry of posts lately is making my eyes water.

[shinigami]

actually, having the white screen at startup is possible. I've been talking to some people who got to see a full color, larger newton right before it was canned, and they're telling me that this iWalk spy video acts and looks (screen wise and concept, not design) just like the color newton did.
There are a ton of things that Apple has done in the past that never got released to the general public, so don't assume that just because you've never seen it, doesn't mean it can't exist.

[lewdvig]

I have heard that the hand writing recognition in the Pocket PC is by the same programmers who pioneered the Newton's.

BTW, it works very well and includes support for some cursive letters. Check out an iPAQ some time.

I hope Apple does a PDA/Tablet!

[samy85114]

i agree with you, a lot of prototypes had been made in the last few years in order to evaluate the PDA possibilities, and most of us have never seen them. so could be possible that some engineers decided to take one off the Apple campus, and actually made a real movie ( as far as we know). However, it doesn't mean the movies we saw few days ago, which are no longer available, at least online, may already reveal the next Apple PDA. But, for sure, I admit that could be such a great thing to release soemthing like that. With a MacOS X-like interface, AirPort built-in, also could work as a Mp3 Player, Quicktime addapted for. After all, this is not a so bad idea. Now let,s see if they will do the same as I said.

[Edited by samy85114 on 01-05-2002 at 12:57 AM]

[Timothy]

Thank you for this thread! It has become painfully clear that we have a whole generation of Mac users who are not familiar with how great the Newton was.

I think when people think PDA, they think of the flimsy toys that have passed themselves off as PDAs over the past 5 years. Everything from Palm is a joke.

I even think that Steve Jobs must never have actually spent any time with a Newton. Maybe he hated Sculley (sp?) so much that he just refused even to look at a Newton.

I think the i'walk, fake or not, hit a nerve with those of us who fell in love with a real PDA. We know how valuable such a device can be...and how well done the Newton was. I still believe there is a market for a well-made device.

If Apple chooses to brand a Palm device, it will indeed be a sad day...I'd rather they stay completely out of the PDA game if they plan on using the Palm OS as a base for it. This would be somewhat like Porsche deciding to market and sell Yugos. But, I think Steve's ego is so blown out of proportion on this one issue that I think he doesn't see reality...

Anyway...I want my Newton back!

[MacSOS]

Well....ya never know! http://www.newton.com still does take ya back to the mother ship. :)

BTW....thanks Arn for the vid!!
Steve

[elgruga]

Originally posted by sprescott1974
if we don't get an apple branded handheld/tablet on monday i'm buying a newton on ebay and throwing out my stupid handspring. who needs to hotsync anyway.

YEAH! Gutsy move - and I agree!

The Newt was the PDA of PDA's - some of us believe it still is......

I tried a Sony Clie last week - gime a break, not as good as a 2100.

Excellent post to start this thread - remind us all just how ********ing great the Newt was!

Damnit, Apple should OWN the world of PDA's.......

I want an iWalk on Monday.

[pixelpete]

And thats the truth!

[dantec]

These videos really astoished me... This thing that is 5 yrs old can kick any PDA's ass! You can write anywhere on the screen... that's pretty kick ass... You don't have to learn ****** grafiti... And its GUI is quite advanced with windows opening up... (not like Palm OS where it just decides to appear out of no where!)

[dantec]

That the newton was a failed device because it had bad handwriting recognition (what Macworld Mag. has let me believe)... How could such a product have been canned?!?

[Zaren]

I was using my Newton 2100 at work one day, and a co-worker stopped to chuckle at how big it was, so I took his Palm Pilot and placed it on top of my open Newton... the entire Palm unit fit within the space taken up by the Newton screen.

I then pointed out that the ENTIRE screen on the Newton was a writable surface, as opposed to the postage stamp of space on his Palm. I showed him how well it translated my horrendous left-handed writing, and how well it also translated his tidy right-handed printing with NO changes to configurations.

I then proceeded to dig out a dongle, plug it into the Ethernet PC card in the Newt, snatch the cat5 from the back of the company NT laptop, grab a DHCP IP from the company network, and show him http://www.apple.com in 16 shades of grey, as well as all of the printers on the company network.

I asked him if he was interested in seeing the web server software available on my Newton, but he declined; he had to make an appointment to have his jaw surgically re-implanted, since it dropped so hard when he saw all this that it dislocated. :D

[mitcho]

Kudos to the Historylesson dept. for an informative lesson. The more young'uns that see this the better.

[blakespot]

I couldn't let arn have all the fun. I created a movie of my Newton MessagePad 130, take a look here:

http://www.blakespot.com/newton.avi

(QuickTime comes w/ the proper codec for this avi)


Same HWR recognizers as the MP2000. Both Newton 2.x devices. As for Calligrapher/Transcriber being the same--the people who wrote the CURSIVE recognizer for the Newton (ParaGraph) indeed wrote Calligrapher/Transcriber from the PocketPC. But the Newton's real gem was the print recognizer done by Apple, in-house, called Rosetta. It was far superior to the cursive recognizer and stands today, still, as the best HWR engine I have ever used.


blakespot

[Frank S.]

Thanks Macrumors! I had never seen a Newton in action before -- It's fantastic. I finally understand why the forums are crowded with people begging Apple to release a PDA. There obviously must be a significant downside to the Newton for Apple to have discontinued it, but from the quick bit I saw, Apple could re-release this 5-year-old technology on Monday with a paint job and an 'i" in front of its name and it'd have another run-away hit.

[benmac]

Thanks a lot for the videos, I had never seen a Newton before, and I know understand what everyone is talking about, and why it was so great!

[dantec]

Blakespot: If the Newton had great HWR why did Macworld Mag. dismiss it saying it had failed due to poor HWR!!! (I'm not saying your wrong, just asking the question)...

What where the other drawbacks that made it not sell very well? Was it priced to high?

[RayCon]

I read, recently, that simply because a technology is superior does not guarantee success. Betamax, for example, was better than VHS. We all know that the Mac OS has always been far superior to Windoze (Not that the Mac OS is NOT a success, but it's market share is so small). Finally--and I find this amazing--a technology as advanced as the Newton was superceded by Palm. Quite obviously, size was an issue in the Newton's demise. I always felt that to abandon such a wonderful technology--to relegate it to the dustbin of time--was, shall we say--moronic? As such, I would really hope that the iWalk is real, and that Apple has been working diligently on it since Jobs pulled the plug on the Newton a few years back.

[Timothy]

There are some key factors...

1. Price. The public decided that they would not pay more than a couple of hundred bucks for a handheld. And, PDA became such a buzz word, that people decided to buy anything on the market as long as it was called a PDA. Well...this timing coincided nicely with a cheap little unit called the Palm Pilot. It was almost as if few people cared that it was cheaply made, and that it did very little. Compared to paper, they were pleased, and the price was right...so Palm sold a ton of them. This is the myth of cheap products; certainly, the market will give you what you want to pay for...and that's exactly what Palm gave people. What palm hasn't given people is a real PDA. The Newton was priced at $799. Was it worth it? Most definitely. But, the market wasn't ready for it.

2. Size. The next myth in PDAs is that smaller is better. For those of us who have used the Newton, I know of few who would want LESS screen real estate. The size of the Newton, for its users, became a plus. But, for those who had never used a PDA, the smaller palm looked appealing. Never mind that you couldn't use that small screen for anything meaningful beyond the date book. The Newton was perceived of as being too large.

3. Desktop Connectivity. For some reason, Apple really struggled with tying the Newton into the desktop and syncing the information. Though you could back up the Newton, it was never elegant, and there was never a "Newton Desktop" application. I think this hurt the Newton. One of Palm's strengths was the perceive one-button sync.

4. Steve Jobs. When he returned...he was all about cutting costs and non-profitable sectors of the company. Plus, it is widely rumored that he didn't like the Newton. Granted, it was a scary time for the future of Apple when he returned, and I respect the manner in which he has turned the company around. But, his dismissal of the PDA as an important part of his "digital lifestyle" (or, worse, thinking Palm has it covered) is a huge blindspot in his reasoning. But hey, he's the one with the $90 million Jet.

I remember the fateful day I placed my Newton on eBay. I had just upgraded system software, and some of my key back-up software didn't run, and I couldn't sync any of my information. Apple had discontinued support of the Newton, and I thought I should sell it while I could still get something for it. My Newton was 2.5 years old, I had bought it for $750, plus a $150 upgrade, and I still sold it for over $500. I remember thinking that Apple would release an updated PDA anytime, and I was going to hold out and buy one as soon as they did. I'm still waiting...

As someone said earlier...you could basically ressurect the Newton tomorrow, make a few minor tweaks, write good desktop software, and the Newton would still kick ass.

[Spartacux]

You guys there don't realise arn's videos are clearly faked? No way the newton worked like that. I know what I'm talking about as I got one on my own. There are artefacts in the video each foolish people can easily recognize as faked. Enlarge the video and watch to the inconsistent moving screen. The reflexes are not really good and where are the shadows on the screen. I could create a video like that in a couple of hours. Nevertheless its quite a good job, Arn. However, do not trust him!

[Timothy]

The "perception" that the Newton had lousy handwriting recognition was born out of a Doonsebury cartoon that ran after the release of one of the early Newtons (the 110?) way back in 1993 of 94.

The cartoon spoofed the hwr. I think this perception of band HWR hung over the Newt's head for years, long after the software had been vastly improved.

I got to where I could write 35 words a minute without a mistake. I would sit and write long papers and do things like edit html pages.

Anyway...I'm waxing nostalgic. Maybe I'll buy an Newt off of eBay on Tuesday pending the MW announcements. ;-)

[dantec]

Why would arn bother faking a video??? Spymac has a reason, to get attention to what they believe is the new device being launched... but arn??? He sounds honest... and maybe you where using Newton OS 1 and he was using Newton OS 2 or something like that!

I don't see the inconsistancies..! I just don't get why arn would fake a video.. just doesn't make sense...

Which video, which seconds.. I'll believe it when I see it!

[cyberchill]

I've been reading these posts since the iWalk videos came up, and I have a few things to add myself.

1. Handwriting recognition: My Newton 100 had mediocre recognition. They fixed it with later Newtons. My 130 and 2000 had excellent recognition (albeit the 2000's was much faster due to faster processor). The kicker to getting the cursive to work was that one had to properly for their words. In other words, garbage in = garbage out, so my own handwriting improved. I always thought the cursive recognizers were much better than the block print recognizers.

2. My thoughts on the demise of the Newton: From what I remember, and please feel free to correct me with evidence contrary to this, Apple spun off Newton Inc., the Newton was profitable at the end, and then Jobs returned. He could have let Newton Inc. sink or swim, but he reeled it back in just to kill John Sculley's progeny. Yes, the Newton had a rough start, but it was just coming of age, with software, peripherals, expandability, etc. It could have done well, I thought, and staved off the success of the Microsoft PDA's.

3. Cool stuff not mentioned: I was running Macintalk on my 2000. Yes, it worked flawlessly. You could have it read text to you, and it sounded no different than Macintalk on a Mac. Although I never attempted to do so, there was at least one hack that added an audio in/out jack to the 2100. I'm sure there's more, but that's what I remember.

4. The veracity of the iWalk video: I've gone through that thing one frame at a time, and cannot find evidence that what's on the screen was added in post. IF the iWalk is a fake, then it is at least based on some sort of working hardware; either beta hardware or a damn good mock-up. Handwriting recognition behaves perfectly. Regarding the gray screen at power off, that is what they look like on side/front-lit displays, such as my Palm 505 (and take a look at the color Sony Cliés, too). And finally, for the gray-scale interface elements on a color screen, do this: in OS X go into System Preferences, click General, and under Appearance, select Graphite. There's your grayscale interface (buttons, et al).

All this of course, I can summarize as the following:

1. The Newton always kicked ass, and still can.
2. I don't believe the videos were doctored in post
3. The iWalk hardware exists at the very least in prototype.

Lastly, is it possible that the mystery port on the top of the iWalk is similar to the ThinkPad's ultraport? In other words a standard interface for things like wireless, cameras, etc.?

[arn]

Sparacux is joking dantec about the "faking" - just drawing a comparison to the spymac arguments...

As for why the Newton failed?

Timothy hit it on the head...

while the Newton technology was awesome - Apple had some strange ideas behind it. They refused to make a smaller unit... in fact I heard that behind the scenes there were adament arguments that there would never be a smaller newton.

But all these points became moot.... the Newton 2000 was actually doing very well - with lots of vertical markets interested in the unit...

And at one point Apple decided to spin newton off into it's own company... called Newton Inc. They even set up their own website - everywas was on it's way. They were going to push the Newton into vertical markets, and many of us hoped it would also continue to make strides the the user market.

This was _right_ at the time Jobs came back to Apple.... for some unknown reason - Newton Inc was reabsorbed into Apple and killed.

As people have said, the poor HWR reputation started in 1993.... but these were mostly fixed by Newton OS 2.0 which appeared years prior to the Newton 2000. The Newton 2000 was significantly faster though (162mhz StrongARM processor)

arn

[vhuang]

Everything shown in the videos is easily done on a MessagePad 2000 or 2100.

I should know, I used to work in the Newton group and (briefly) at Newton, Inc. until we got sucked back into the mother ship and shut down.

I hope the rumors about an Apple branded PDA are true. I really doubt it though as I think I would have heard something from old friends who are still at the company.

[arn]

Oh... a couple more notes...

I personally like the large screen and wish there were a PDA out there now with such a large screen.

When I showed people my Newton 2000... there were 2 immediate reactions (and this was computer novices and from people who owned palms)

1) I didn't know this technology existed

and then...

2) It's _only_ $1000?

arn

[blakespot]

I will admit it now on behalf of both Arnold and I. We have created a makeshift OS X-based beowulf cluster with our two DP 800 G4's in order to setup a render farm. Yes, the videos were faked? The proof? Neither arn nor I have arms--they were rendered.


Seriously though, Timothy makes some good points as to why the Newton "failed." Thought it's of note that it had just become profitable, finally, immediately before it was canned. A large part of why the Newton was killed was to get Apple focused on the quadrant-based product line that finally came to be. Such a dizzying array of indistinguishable hardware was the Apple line at the time. (Well, actuall Apple had just let Newton go as an independent entity, and then brought it back in and killed it--but there were fears of shareholder issues down the road, etc.)

The original Newton's handwriting recognition was very poor. That was the Newton that got the most press, as it was the first PDA, more or less. The massive improvement of the HWR did not get made known, sadly. But indeed, to this day, there is no better HWR than the Newton 2.x devices' HWR technology. The latest Calligrapher (or lesser Transcriber) do not match Apple's own in-house Rosetta HWR engine.

Back in '97, I brought my PDA's to Arn's apt. and we took a shot of both our combined lots:

http://www.blakespot.com/nino/images/lotsapdas2.jpg

14 NewtonOS devices represented there, I think.


My current collection, sans the Compaq iPAQ I use day-to-day as my current handheld, can be seen here:

http://www.blakespot.com/list/images/pdas.jpg


PDA's. It's a good scene.



blakespot

[cyberchill]

I've been reading these posts since the iWalk videos came up, and I have a few things to add myself.

1. Handwriting recognition: My Newton 100 had mediocre recognition. They fixed it with later Newtons. My 130 and 2000 had excellent recognition (albeit the 2000's was much faster due to faster processor). The kicker to getting the cursive to work was that one had to properly for their words. In other words, garbage in = garbage out, so my own handwriting improved. I always thought the cursive recognizers were much better than the block print recognizers.

2. My thoughts on the demise of the Newton: From what I remember, and please feel free to correct me with evidence contrary to this, Apple spun off Newton Inc., the Newton was profitable at the end, and then Jobs returned. He could have let Newton Inc. sink or swim, but he reeled it back in just to kill John Sculley's progeny. Yes, the Newton had a rough start, but it was just coming of age, with software, peripherals, expandability, etc. It could have done well, I thought, and staved off the success of the Microsoft PDA's.

3. Cool stuff not mentioned: I was running Macintalk on my 2000. Yes, it worked flawlessly. You could have it read text to you, and it sounded no different than Macintalk on a Mac. Although I never attempted to do so, there was at least one hack that added an audio in/out jack to the 2100. I'm sure there's more, but that's what I remember.

4. The veracity of the iWalk video: I've gone through that thing one frame at a time, and cannot find evidence that what's on the screen was added in post. IF the iWalk is a fake, then it is at least based on some sort of working hardware; either beta hardware or a damn good mock-up. Handwriting recognition behaves perfectly. Regarding the gray screen at power off, that is what they look like on side/front-lit displays, such as my Palm 505 (and take a look at the color Sony Cliés, too). And finally, for the gray-scale interface elements on a color screen, do this: in OS X go into System Preferences, click General, and under Appearance, select Graphite. There's your grayscale interface (buttons, et al).

All this of course, I can summarize as the following:

1. The Newton always kicked ass, and still can.
2. I don't believe the videos were doctored in post
3. The iWalk hardware exists at the very least in prototype.

Lastly, is it possible that the mystery port on the top of the iWalk is similar to the ThinkPad's ultraport? In other words a standard interface for things like wireless, cameras, etc.?

[Goggles]

I originally posted this in response to another post on comp.sys.newton.misc back in October/November when the the iPod was announced. I even sent it to Steve Jobs for what good it would do... 8^)! I thought you might be interested.

Wasn't it fun to watch Apple's stock gain over a dollar on Tuesday morning as it climbed in anticipation of a hypathetical device called the "iWalk"? Wasn't it equally disheartening to watch as the stock dropped by almost a full dollar after the announcement of the actual device called the "iPod"? What's my point?

Apple NEEDS to re-enter the PDA marketplace and regain its position as leader and innovator in a sector originally thier own! So many of us were eagerly expecting something so much more than an MP3 player with Firewire and a hard drive. So many of us were disappointed when that product didn't come to fruition. So many of us are now asking, "what's next?" and so many of us are sticking with our MessagePads once again because after almost four years, there's still nothing on the market to replace our trusted companions.

The iWalk was an obvious hoax but look at the attention it garnered in the 24 hours before Apple's announcement. It wasn't an MP3 player that drove Apple's stock up over $19.00 on Tuesday morning... It was heightened speculation that Apple would be announcing a new PDA; one that was/is to be a worthy successor to the Newton's heritage!

In hindsight, almost everyone now agrees that the last incarnations of Newton were astounding to say the least. Apple's "legendary industrial design", fast processors, lots of RAM, expandibility, the best backlit screen in the industry (the list goes on...), are all responsible for making the Newton the best PDA there was/is. And let's not forget the best part of the Newton experience... The Newton OS! Newton OS 2.1 was/is mature. Newton OS 2.1 was/is friendly and easy to use. Newton OS 2.1 has the best damn handwriting recognition in the industry!

In the last four years, NOTHING has replaced it! My MessagePad is STILL just as useful to me today as it was back in 1997 when I first purchased it! It STILL surfs the web, grabs my email, takes my notes, and does my finances. In fact in 2001, very few modern PDA's, even the one's that are now coming to market, are as fast as the Newton was in 1997.

So what happened?

In my opinion, the myths of Steve Jobs not liking the Newton are hearsay and irrelevant. The Newton was ultimately shelved despite being the BEST for a number of reasons. First, IT NEVER MADE MONEY! Actually, truth be told, this is the ONLY reason the Newton was canned, period. Bottom line. Naturally, there were other factors; before Gil came on board as CEO and restructured things, Apple was in dire financial and organizational straights. The Newton was never marketed successfully; it was physically too big (not to my mind but as evidenced by the Palm Pilot's quick rise to fame and fortune), it was priced too high (a lesson that Apple still hasn't learned or fully grasped as evidenced recently by the now defunct Cube and now the iPod), Apple never did get synchronization with a desktop system to work properly, and perhaps (though I don't necessarily agree), it tried to be or do too much when all people really wanted was something to stick in their pockets and go.

Let's face some facts. The Newton was/is a FULL BLOWN COMPUTER capable of standing on its own without having to rely on a desktop system at all. Most every other PDA (modern or otherwise, with the possible exception of Psion) ISN'T. Today, modern PDA's rely heavily on synergy and synchronization with a desktop system to be a complete solution. I have no problem with that whatsoever but I prefer the Newton approach. I don't want to have to rely on a desktop system but I DO want the ability to have my PDA successfully communicate with other computers to transfer data and information. That, I think is of paramount importance!

Give the people what they want already! I think Apple knows that they had a winning product in the Newton, they simply made too many mistakes in too many areas to see it through. Image if Apple had released a Palm sized Newton instead of the eMate or the MessagePad 2000? Imagine if they had priced it reasonably from the get-go, imagine if that damned Doonsbury cartoon had never been published. Imagine if, imagine if... They pioneered an entirely new industry and pioneers make mistakes in uncharted territories.

Here's what I suspect most people really want(ed) to see as heir to the venerable Newton:

- a smaller device with all of the capabilities the Newton possessed four years ago plus...
- based on a handheld version of OS X,
- fast, low-powered G3 processor,
- at least 64MB of RAM built-in (with the option to exand),
- improved handwriting recognition engine (Rosetta?),
- voice recognition (Newton had it with Dragon Dictate!),
- a colour screen,
- a long-life Lithium-polymer battery,
- a headphone jack,
- some kind of control pad (scroll wheel or some such thing),
- SM and CF card support,
- iPod functionality built-in (including the hard drive and Firewire),
- USB and Firewire connectivity,
- WIRELESS internet (ala Airport, Bluetooth and or GSM Cellular),
- seamless connectivity to a desktop system (notice I didn't specify Mac),
- affordable ($899. US? Pipedream? Perhaps then $999. US)

There's probably more and I'm sure many of you will look at the list and say, "Hey! he forgot this or that..." but you get the picture.

Well, I've said my piece and until Apple comes around and produces something worthy of the Newton's legacy, I'll keep on using my MessagePad thanks very much.

Cheers,
Goggles

[blakespot]

I believe Newton was brought back into Apple and killed due to concerns that if Newton, Inc. had found success, there could be repercussions from Apple shareholders with regards to them "letting Newton go." This was especially concerning as, again, the Newton group had just turned profitable.

Am I remembering this right, Arn?

It was not simply a take-this-Scully move. I don't think Steve would be, even then, that impulsive given what he was trying to accomplish with his return to Apple.



blakespot

[arn]

Originally posted by blakespot
I believe Newton was brought back into Apple and killed due to concerns that if Newton, Inc. had found success, there could be repercussions from Apple shareholders with regards to them "letting Newton go." This was especially concerning as, again, the Newton group had just turned profitable.

Am I remembering this right, Arn?


That was one person's theory... but I don't think it makes any sense... newton was still subsidiary of Apple...

If this were true, than no subsidaries would ever be created for the same fear

arn

[Gus]

I hate to say it, but I DO completely believe it was a take-this Sculley move. Since Steve had nothing to do with the idea, development, and creation of this wonderful little toy, he felt no attachment to it whatsoever. The Apple board at the time knew that the Newton was finally turning the corner, but the Newton had always been a black eye for the company with the world at large. That Doonesbury cartoon, (and it seems ridiculous that a cartoon would have this much sway), really killed the baby before it had a chance with the public. By the way,, Gary Trudeau (writer of Doonesbury) later apologized after he saw the Newton 2.x OS and actually drew some Newton advertisements for the company. Anyway, my 2 cents.

gus

[Sixkiller]

As for the sad SpyMac videos, has anyone realized that Apple never puts "Apple" underneath the Apple logo. When the thing starts up there's a huge Apple logo and underneath it says "Apple iWalk". This alone is enough to assume that SpyMac's videos were pulled out of somebody's ass.

Six

http://SmackOSRumors.tk/

[Gus]

Oh yeah, we are all also forgetting that all of these eBooks and electronic book readers would be obsolete with the Newton. The Newton did, and still does have a book reader included. There are thousands of titles people have made for them too. And it's WONDERFUL that the Newton's screen was so big, because you could actually read a page from a book. I still don't think that the HWR on my Messagepad 100 is that bad at all. At least it isn't graffiti. :-)


Gus

[Gus]

I hate to say it, but I DO completely believe it was a take-this Sculley move. Since Steve had nothing to do with the idea, development, and creation of this wonderful little toy, he felt no attachment to it whatsoever. The Apple board at the time knew that the Newton was finally turning the corner, but the Newton had always been a black eye for the company with the world at large. That Doonesbury cartoon, (and it seems ridiculous that a cartoon would have this much sway), really killed the baby before it had a chance with the public. By the way,, Gary Trudeau (writer of Doonesbury) later apologized after he saw the Newton 2.x OS and actually drew some Newton advertisements for the company. Anyway, my 2 cents.

gus

[Timothy]

Can anyone successfully argue the "perceived" stance that Steve Jobs has against PDAs? I just don't get how he can be so "hip" to the Digital Device notion...the mac as a "hub" idea, and yet be so cool to the PDA.

The PDA should be at the very center of this lifestyle. I don't want 3 or 4 "iPod" like devices...I want a single PDA that performs these functions. This thread has renewed my spirits. I thought I was the last voice crying in the wilderness over the greatness of the Newton, and the rightness of bringing it back.

That recent quote from Steve that the PDA market is dead is telling. Basically he stated that no one was really using PDAs anymore. But, is he not capable of asking the follow-up question: why? The answer is that all the PDAs are lousy! And, again, if Steve thinks an Apple-branded Palm is some sort of answer, I think he is sadly mistaken.

But...the same could have been said about the MP3 market. It was heading towards obscurity. There were no players that made any sense for the cost. There were $299 players with only 128 mb of memory. What a joke. But, clearly Apple didn't just conclude that "no one wants to use MP3 players." They asked the "why" question and determined that it was becuase there was not a viable player in the market. They solved the "why" question, and I believe they can solve the "why" question for the PDA.

Additionally...people keep saying that Apple can't compete in the now crowded PDA market. Who Cares? As they did with the iPod...produce great products for the Mac crowd, and expand/support your community. They created a bit o' Mac envy with the iPod...and they could do the same with an Apple PDA done right.

[Edited by Timothy on 01-05-2002 at 05:33 PM]

[Gus]

Ok, I have no idea how I double posted after my own comment, but I apologize.

Gus

[Impresario]

I think Steve killed Newton, in part, because it wasn't an elegant enough design for him.

In my opinion, there is a common tread from iWalk to Newton to .... the concept of the Dynabook. This was proposed by Dr. Alan Kay in 1969 (approx), as an ultimate wireless laptop, PDA, & PC, and the size of a piece of paper and the thickness of 100 sheets of paper. Alan worked at Xerox PARC, conceived of "Objects", wrote smalltalk, came up with the desktop metaphor, overlapping windows, and use of a (3) button mouse. He also showed Steve around PARC in '79, was an Apple Fellow in the 1980's, and still a close friend of Steve's.

My point is that Newton was an early attempt at some of the major attributes of Alan's concept. An iWalk strikes me as a potentially better (more elegant) attempt that would fit within the current Apple direction of a digital hub.

An iWalk that allows me to get away from my desk, do all the wireless PDA things, plus the "office" basics, and "sync" up later would be very compelling. Plus, let it handle movies/images like the iPod does tunes. Works well for the digital strategy.

For my money, having worked at Xerox (70's) and Apple (80's), those videos are real, though editied, of a prototype that exists now at Apple. That it will be announced Monday (or ever) is anyone's guess. I sure hope so, if it is ready.

[Timothy]

OK...not to bury you with too much stuff...but

Let's tackle the issue of "price." Why are people so "cheap" when it comes to a great PDA? A device they would use extensively on a daily basis.

People are willing to spend easily between $500-$1000 on a Digital Camera, that they will maybe use once per month.

Why is there such a difference in the perception of value?

[Edited by Timothy on 01-05-2002 at 04:25 PM]

[Timothy]

and Arn...why can't I edit my posts?

[Cheezy]

Spartacus, I think you're dumb. I have a MessagePad 2000 that works exactly the way the videos show. This is my fifth Newton, so I think I know what I'm talking about. You probably owned a Newton OS 1.X device to say such things...

[pik0]

Here's an interesting observation by As the Apple Turns (http://appleturns.com):
By the way, if Steve doesn't unveil an "iPad" or some form of tablet-style, pen-driven Mac slate on Monday, it looks like Microsoft will get to enjoy the lion's share of the press attention next week. See, faithful viewer happened to stumble across what is in all likelihood the real reason why Uncle Steve moved his keynote from Tuesday to Monday: according to InfoWorld, Bill Gates is delivering another keynote on Tuesday at the Consumer Electronics Show. (By the way, if you've heard the rumor that Steve was also going to keynote at CES, we should let you know that the Mac Show proved it wrong with a three minute phone call to the show's organizers. Darn that investigative journalism.)

This may explain why the keynote was moved to Monday from Tuesday and would tend to support the notion that an iWalk-like device may be in the works...

Andrew

[atlascott]

It is clear from all the hopeful iWalk posts that we really want and are ready for an updated Newton PDA that is more like a laptop replacement than a Palm Pilot. (Shoot, I am--I am either buying the new Apple PDA or am Apple laptop (maybe both) early next year). So why doesn't someone buy the hardware, software and name from Apple if they dont want it, and develop it further? I mean, I havent heard a single bad thing about the hardware or software re: the Newton on this site. With the better battery life and faster mobile processors now available (as opposed to what was available in the 80's), a company interested in investing some time could make a killer product. Even if 80% of Mac users owned a Apple brand PDA, it would be a huge commercial success. And since we are the technological cusp of a PDA offering laptop level functionality, why not! Finally, this whole PDA thing reminds you of just how ahead of the curve Apple has always been, even during their tough times in the early-mid 90's...what a company!

[arn]

I like the points Tim brought up about price and functionality of PDA's...

It raises the question - how to make a PDA useful... or otherwise indispensable...

I've thought about this and... here are some thoughts I've had on the topic. For me, portable computing as a whole won't be quite as exciting until we get wide range wireless internet access. To the point of where cell-phones are now... for $30-$40/mo you can get pretty much use as you like cell-phone usage.

Once we get this into portables... things will become a lot more useful...

As well - one of the Newton's limitations was poor connectivity...

I think PDA's should be an extension of your home computer... and not even a device you have to consciously backup or sync certain parts to. Like the iPod and iTunes... it should just be a natural extension of your machine...

as well, it shouldn't really even be considered an unrelated accessory. The late Don Crabb (in own of his columns) had suggested that Apple should bundle low end Newtons with their computers... this was a concept I agreed with 100%. Apple's all about creating solutions. They have control of the OS, the hardware and many of the Apps. They could create the ultimate solution. PowerMac/PDA combo system... where the OS and certain apps are intimately familiar with the concept of the PDA.

Your PDA would have all your email addresses, contacts, favorite web pages... even documents if you like.

Handwriting into your PDA takes some effort... in that it's definately not as fast as scribbling onto a piece of paper... but the beauty of it is that it becomes data... you can search on, copy/store... whatever.

I still have the first few notes i'd written on my Newton.... dating from 3/1997. You write it once, it stays "forever"...

Anyhow... just some thoughts...

arn

[Tob]

Here's again what Steve thinks about PDAs:

http://www.fortune.com/indexw.jhtml?channel=artcol.jhtml&doc_id=204904

[arn]

yep

thanks for that link... though Jobs/Apple did try to buy palm early on...

arn

[kainjow]

My question is, if Apple doesn't come out with a PDA Monday and if they never come out with one, then what ever happened to all that Newton code sitting around at Apple? Apple obviously hasn't licensed (maybe they have?) the Newton code ever since they cut it. They had to be doing something with it all these years. If when Steve stopped production of the Newton and he knew that there wouldn't be another PDA, he probably would have sold the Newton code. But, he didn't. So I think they are coming out with a PDA sometime this year at least. It's a new year, new products, new innovations. Hopefully Apple's going to start the year off right. They're going to kick Microsoft in the face once Apple brings out their tablet computer (that's why Steve's keynote is Monday and not Tuesday). And whatever happened to InkWell? That's what Apple's been holding all these years. I can't wait til Monday!

[Timothy]

Arn...I agree with your points. I think we see this issue in the same way.

Rereading that article at Fortune gave me both positive and negative vibes. On the pos side, Jobs recognized that the Palm OS specifically wasn't being used much...and I almost inferred that he has decided against any strong aliance with Palm, which I think is a good thing (however, the whole BE thing might be interesting).

On the neg side, he basically said that PDAs aren't a "natural" device like music is. Hello? As if computers in general are a natural device.

Back to Arn's points...I agree that the wireless thing is vital. Back in the golden age of PDA/Wireless, I had my Newton 2000, connected to my ricochet wireless modem. I could be mobile in my car and connecting wirelessly to check my email. It was in incredible set up, and has yet to be equalled.

Wireless
While wireless broadband would be great, I don't think that is "vital" to the rebirth of the PDA market. I think an always on 28k connection would serve the most important and need functions of wireless PDA. The Omni-sky modems are a pretty close solution, but I've choked a bit on spending $40-50 per month to add that to my visor, which I hate using. If I had an updated Newton, I might reconsider.

Telephony
BTW...most people want their PDA combined with the phone. I go back and forth on this one. The perfect size of PDA, however, is going to be larger than the perfect size of phone, and hence will look funny held up to your face. But, why not develop it this way: make the phone work like the hands-free devices; headphones and microphones in one. You'll already want headphones to listen to your MP3s, why not just add a small microphone to the headphones, and you wouldn't have to hold the PDA up to your face to talk.

Connectivity
I completely agree that the PDA should auto update and integrate with your desktop. I'd love to see 802.11 capability so that where that is available (and I believe access points will continue to increase) then you could surf the net at broadband speeds. Additionally, this would make connection to the desktop a breeze.

Screen Size
I think I've made my point that I don't like small screens. The size of the Newton 2000 screen, for me, was great. I'd even accept it perhaps 20% smaller. But, going in an entirely different direction, what of the possibility of a virtually projected screen wearing some style of eye glasses? This would allow you to make the unit very small (iPod size) and yet have huge screen real estate. The problem is that you still need enough "input" screen real estate for HWR...unless you go strictly with voice recognition, which I don't really see as practical. Can you imagine sitting on a plane and talking outloud to your PDA?

Maybe we should create a lobbying coalition to really create momentum and pressure on Apple to not only do this, but to do it right!

[arn]

Originally posted by Timothy



Telephony
BTW...most people want their PDA combined with the phone. I go back and forth on this one. The perfect size of PDA, however, is going to be larger than the perfect size of phone, and hence will look funny held up to your face. But, why not develop it this way: make the phone work like the hands-free devices; headphones and microphones in one. You'll already want headphones to listen to your MP3s, why not just add a small microphone to the headphones, and you wouldn't have to hold the PDA up to your face to talk.




Yep... I was back and forth - but in the end I've decided integrated systems is not the way to go... I _don't_ want a PDA/cellphone/mp3player combo machine....

It ends up making too many compromises for each function.

I think the big thing will be bluetooth intergrated devices... so your PDA can connect via your cellphone or whatever...

The iWalk videos brought up an interesting thought though - note the iWalk didn't have a modem or ethernet port - yet they claim they could hit a website...

on possibility would be an Airport card <-> Mac. But what if you are on the road? or at your office or elsewhere? On the road, a bluetooth <-> cellphone would be the best solution. Alternative, they could build a modem/airport device which plugs into a phone line and airport connects to your PDA. You plug it into the phoneline whereever you are, and you can connect via it to the internet. Basically it would be a modem module.

It would end up being a cheaper/portable Airport BaseStation.

arn

[Timothy]

While I may agree with you on the phone...I absolutely want the ability to carry, play MP3s on my PDA. It should be such a simple function of the PDA that I don't think it would compromise it in any way. They already have the software (iPod) and would just have to add that to the device, with stereo headphones out.

So...MP3...YES!!!

[BurntCalc]

What's the problem with PDA's? I think the idea that PDA's are very anemic and not done right is correct. So, let's play with this....

If Apple introduced a PDA, then what would it do? Well, along the lines of the iPod, it would sync automatically with everything on your computer. E-mail, addresses, music, and possibly even documents. No setting up. Boom, it uploads and keeps an exact copy of the contents of your computer.

PDA's do this, but do it badly.

It would also need to be as easy to use as a regular notepad. I mean scribbles and everything. From what's been said here, Newton already did this. Give it an update and make it even snappier... who knows.

Looks. nuff said.

Phone options? Hmmm... That would be challenging. A hands-free system would have to be the way to go. No one's gonna put a square box up to their face to talk. Even the palm-phones you see suck.

So, in a nutshell, it's a Mac in your hand. Possible? Yah. Will apple do it? Sounds like they did, but were just toying with the idea.

Ok. Whatever. This has all been said before, I guess.

[kemck]

©et it right this time......

I pulled my Newton out after reading all of this and long for the day when I can have all of that functionality connected to my TiPowerbook.

I was there in July, money in hand......don't let me down Steve....do it right!

[kiwi_the_iwik]

Originally posted by Timothy
Screen Size
I think I've made my point that I don't like small screens. The size of the Newton 2000 screen, for me, was great. I'd even accept it perhaps 20% smaller.

Nah - forget about Newton 2000 size - go for the full A4 size. With an 15" LCD touch-sensitive screen and Newton's Handwriting recognition, it could compete in the Notebook category: Cheaper than a laptop, yet easier to carry - and more user friendly - with true WYSIWYG capability (hey - it's the same size as a standard letter). It could even have a cut-down OSX, with a CD-Rom, an IR tranceiver and firewire/usb ports to boot.

What more could you want?

[arn]

Well, last we heard... Apple had integrated Newton's HWR into Mac OS 9 (and maybe 10) in the form of Inkwell:

http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/comment/0,5859,2609364,00.html

http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/graphics/library/0007/0007ink/inkpad.gif

http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/graphics/library/0007/0007ink/settings.gif

http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/graphics/library/0007/0007ink/gestures.gif

But we haven't heard about it since that original article.

arn

[kiwi_the_iwik]

Now THIS is what we should be looking at...
http://homepage.mac.com/senza_piombo/.Pictures/n1.jpg


Checkout http://www.theapplecollection.com/design/macproto/Newton2.html/n1.jpg

[Timothy]

I don't get the Tablet concept. Can someone explain to me what niche a tablet would fill?

As I see it, the tablet would be used in exactly the same places you would normally use a laptop. For example, I am typing this on my powerbook, sitting in my living room. Why would I want to use a tablet instead of my powerbook? What advantage does it give me? I honestly can't see any advantages, and can see several disadvantages.

And...I don't think a tablet has anything to do with a PDA as we have been discussing. Would you take a tablet to a baseball game, for example? Would you take it with you to the grocery store? In short, how often would you take a tablet with you out of the front door?

[Timothy]

removed duplicate post...

[vhuang]

Every try to use a laptop while walking around?

The tablet is an ideal form factor for industries where people are still using clipboards.

Healthcare for example.

[AmbitiousLemon]

...people seem more receptive now. my little imagining of an iNewton would be a little something like this (sorry im not in a list mood right now):

it should be a cross between a tablet and a pda. i carry little pads of paper around with me wherever i go and let me tell u, these are larger than most pda, but there is a difference they are longer but not much wider. take a look at your pockets they are typically deep but not wide. if the whole surface is an lcd then a long narrow iNewt would have a very large screen. heres another stupid idea... why not make it slightly flexible? just a tiny bit of flex would greatly increase its portability and comfort. a pad of paper in your pocket bends with you as you move a pda feels like a clunky brick in you pocket. a slight flex might greatly add to comfort. i recently read an article about a new sony laptop that had an lcd screen that could switch back and forth between indoor and outdoor modes (manually). the outdoor mode uses reflected ambient light to increase screen brightness (can anyone find the article?). an iNewt (every laptop/pda/tablet should be equipped with this!) with this sort of technology would ease eyestrain outdoors (im tired of peering at dim lcds). the ipod is great right now and i love actual harddrive technology but with ibm's pixiedust (http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1006-200-7801977.html) id like to see an ibm microdrive (article says 6gb in the 1inch square microdrive by next year!) in any iNewt. connectivity to your desktop is obvious but i woudl liketo see much more. i would like the iNewt to be a number of things in this respect: 1) an independant portable computer 2) a go between for data 3) a remote client for your desktop that both mirrors your desktop's monitor and accesses all the data and processing power in your desktop system. imagine for a moment you are a university professor. you have a beautiful mac in your office, the university has wireless access all over the campus, and you teach classes hold office hours and work in your office the lab and the field. you were in your office this morning and prepared a powerpoint presentation for class on your desktop, iNewt in pocket you headed to the lab to see what the undergraduate monkeys you have workin for you have accomplished lately. you are so excited about all the data the monkeys have produced you quickly download all the data into your iNewt and start talking excitedly with the kids while jotting notes down to you iNewt as fast as you would write to a clipboard. you suddenly realize you have office hours and rush off to the cafe on campus where you hold these informal sessions. as usual no one shows up for awhile and as you wait you wirelessly mirror your desktop (which has been synching with you iNewt all along since you havent left the campus's wireless network) and use the high powered system to analyze the data you had downloaded in the lab. as students trickle in you often use you iNewt to draw useful sketches and flow charts to explain ideas and even cue up webpages, movies, and still photos to explain and illustrate your ideas further. although the iNewt is long and narrow the view rotated 90 degrees to accommodate webpages better. you head off to class where you plug your iNewt into the projector (gigwire, usb2, or wireless whatever) and present the powerpoint presentation you created that morning but never transferred to your iNewt (didnt need to since it is always synching with your desktop). after class you head back to the office and take a look at the data that you started the machine analyzing hours ago. end of the day you head home leaving the campuses wireless network. you could pay for a broadband wireless plan but chose not to since your iNewt could stand on its own. stuck in traffic you plug your iNewt into teh car stereo and play your mp3 files (if you wanted you could use the wireless earbud head phones but your alone so no need). just then your cellphone rings. its one of those new ones where the bulk of it fits behind your ear with a hearing piece (that doubles as a mic) that fits in your ear like those old fashioned hearing aids. you glance at your iNewt which wirelessly synch with you cellphone to see who it is. you take the call since its your buddy you met at macrumors years ago. he has his iNewt with him so you point the iNewt's pinpoint webcam at yoruself and click the button to synch the cellphone call with the webcam so you can both talk and see your buddy (you are in the car who needs to look at the road?). you arrive home and finish your call with your buddy. as you pull up your iNewt recognizes your home wirelessnetwork and quickly synchs with your home computer automatically. you sit on the couch in front of the tv and mirror your desktop on your iNewt as you decide to write tomorrow's lecture notes and powerpoint presentation. as you work you play your mp3s on your desktop, mp3s on your iNewt, and cds in your stereo all in one playlist that plays over your stereo's speakers thanks to the idock that connects your tv, stereo, iNewt, and desktop. visuals play on your big screen digital tv. after work you feel like relaxing so you watch the mpeg of ferris bueller's day off you ripped from the dvd a friend loaned you. your imac perfectly plays the movie on your tv. before bed you transfer another movie to your iNewt so you can watch it on the plane trip this weekend. and so is your day with iNewt. i like what someone mentioned about packaging a iNewt with a desktop system. a remote control is to a tv as a iNewt is to your desktop (ok its a bit more). microdrive, bright lcd, airport AND bluetooth, newton hwr, a small webcam, wireless connections with computers, cellphones, etc.

a pda should be a great notepad and much much more. right now pdas arent even good notepads. a pda shoudl be a great independant machine but should also be able to take advantage (and help sell) the great processing power and storage of a desktop system. its so frustrating to be like two doors down from a powerful desktop setup and not be able to access it. i love my laptop. i got it mostly because i wanted to work from my couch. o sure i carry it all over work and back and forth between work and home, but i cant carry the thing with me everywhere. if i had a pda that could synch with my desktop i wouldnt need my laptop. so would such a product canablize the laptop market? a little, i still see a role for laptops but with such a pda around i think the gains would greatly outweigh the losses.

much more to say but ive ranted for far too long!

peace:)

[dantec]

Welcome back amitious lemon...

PDA PDA PDA...

Macworld is over (sniff, sniff)... and no pda, a ****** version of palm desktop, a new ibook, new imac... NO NEW POWERMAC... argh!

I thought this was gonna be the Macworld!

[mischief]

The iBunk.:p

[eyelikeart]

Originally posted by mischief
The iBunk.:p

very nice... :D

[Falleron]

Has anyone thought that apple might liscence out the newton OS to a third party to develop the hardware? This way they manage to get a pda that is compatible with the mac + keep people quite who like the original newton!

[Doraemon]

Newton is dead. It was already dead when Newton 100 was released! If there ever will be a new Apple PDA (what I really doubt) it definitely won't be a Newton. And I don't think anybody is willing to pay for licencing the Newton OS from Apple. The newest version is close to 5 years old!

[mischief]

So what DO you get when you cross an Apple and a Lemon?

Answer: A PDA.

[dantec]

I don't get it mischief... :confused:

[DaveGee]

I'd love to know the age range of those who keep saying an Apple PDA is such a bad idea... I'm starting to get the feeling that those who want Apple to "ditch the PPC, move to AMD and build cheap killer game playin' boxes dude" are the exact same people who hate the idea of a PDA. Heck I don't exactly blame em, when I was that age I had little use for a PDA myself...

A PDA done ala Apple would for the adults in the group be a huge success. I have a Palm and while I keep some stuff on it using it is so far from Mac-like it isn't even funny.. If Apple provide a better mousetrap I'd snap it right up and I have a feeling most Palm owning people here would feel the same way.

Sure, Palm might be the defacto standard but they were pretty much handed the title... While some of the WinCE devices might be better it goes against eveything in me to buy one... A Palm is on thing but a WinCE based device I don't see myself ever getting one (shiver).

Dave

[mischief]

In the US (I think it started as British) a fundamentally flawed product, which may sell well but has a core design problem is referred to as a lemon. I have no idea where that got started.

[eyelikeart]

I'm 24....

in all honesty, I could very much benefit from the use of a PDA....I have a pretty busy schedule and often forget things I need to do.....

but I also know that we've been told by Steve Jobs himself that Apple won't be getting back into it.....

so with that, I stand by all of comments dismissing the idea because it's a complete waste of time to sit here and repeatedly wish and pray to the Apple Gods for a PDA...

just beating a dead horse I feel.... :o

[eyelikeart]

I honestly hope that Palm starts making a big comback and PDAs take off for them this year....I invested in them when their stock took a nosedive and am eagerly awaiting a generous return :p

[mischief]

I most certainly DO NOT think Apple should follow suit in the "cheap machine" arms race. In fact I think they would be doing exactly that with a PDA.

As eyelikeart illustrated above: Apple has made it plain that a PDA is not in their lineup, and whining about it just wastes forum space.

Yes a "real" PDA would be a good idea but in order to make it what it should be it would no longer BE a PDA. It must be a united PDA/Web-enabled PCS/Pager/OS X remote widget, this would be WAY more than a simple PDA and would justify it's own moniker.

[dantec]

a voice recognition PDA!

[mischief]

You're standing in San Francisco International Airport. 500 Assorted professionals are murmering in 6 different languages, while conversing, into their PDA's. Some have cell phones open too. Some particularly techie guys have their PDA's talking to their cellphones and vice versa. Suddenly a tablet looks real good. :D

[eyelikeart]

Originally posted by mischief
You're standing in San Francisco International Airport. 500 Assorted professionals are murmering in 6 different languages, while conversing, into their PDA's. Some have cell phones open too. Some particularly techie guys have their PDA's talking to their cellphones and vice versa. Suddenly a tablet looks real good. :D

great point! ;)

[Unregistered]

Hello, where I cand find the iWalk Movies?.......
I just want to see........ if are True or not.........

best regards,