Poll: OS X Browser of Choice (09/02)

[dongmin]

Now that Chimera 0.5, Mozilla 1.1, and Netscape 7.0 are all out and people are making the switch to Jaguar, I'm curious to see what people are using as their primary OS X browser.

Mine: Mozilla 1.1 on an iBook 500 running 10.2

[King Cobra]

Mozilla 1.1, Cube, 10.1.5

Fast, somewhat stable, anti-aliasing

Quick to check mail, quick to load, smells funny after beating the crap out of Netscape. :p :D

[Rower_CPU]

I go back and forth between IE, Moz and Chimera.

I still use IE as my primary, since it's easier to navigate w/out the mouse...a big deal on my PBG4.

[peterjhill]

IE all the way. I have Mozilla and iCab installed, but they are not worth the effort to switch to. I have been using IE since version 4.5, and am used to the interface.

[chibianh]

Mozilla 1.1 on tibook 800 for me. However, it keeps crashing at certain sites and I don't know why. Chimera crashes at the same sites, too. Oh well...

[GeeYouEye]

OmniWeb on an iBook 500 running Jaguar.

[vniow]

No Mac, but I'm using Mozilla 1.1 :)

[finchna]

Mozilla 1.1 (nightly builds, too) While it's a bit slower than OmniWeb and Chimera those two still don't render some pages well and some functionality is still missing--esp. from Chimera. IE is ok until it just bogs down after too much use--is there such a think as a memory leak in OSX? And what ever happened to Opera?

Nathan

[Taft]

I try to use Chimera as much as I can. And it almost never renders incorrectly. But it does crash occasionally (no worse than IE in most situations though) and it seems to have some timing issues (it seems to lose connection to the internet when everything else is running fine).

When I get frustrated with Chimera, I usually fall back onto Omniweb. Then when I get sick of waiting for Omniweb to load the MacRumors forum pages, I go to Mozilla. Then, when I get sick of Mozilla's slow window and tab instancing times and its slower UI functionality in general, I go back to Chimera. Then when Chimera losses connectivity....

You get the picture. I'm really excited about the future of Chimera. It is shaping up to be a great browser; lightning fast in both the UI and rendering departments. If they can nail down the few bugs it has and then add some must-have browser features without increasing the bloat, it'll reign supreme. Its sooooo close already.

Taft

[dongmin]

It's kind of funny: at 26 votes, it's all tied up between Chimera, Mozilla, and IE at 8 votes each. I guess the people on this forum are at the bleeding edge if as many people use Chimera as IE.

[pimentoLoaf]

Pardon my naivete, but what the bloody bleep is Chimera?

[Rower_CPU]

Originally posted by pimentoLoaf
Pardon my naivete, but what the bloody bleep is Chimera?

It's a cocoa browser under the Mozilla group...and it's fast...here's a link:
http://chimera.mozdev.org/

[jelloshotsrule]

like taft, i use chimera mainly. and i get that whole losing connection thing too.... i just restart it and it works. but it's weird

and i'll use ie as my backup when sometimes downloading files messes up in chimera or whatever else.... word

oh yeah, running 10.2 on dp 800

[SilvorX]

mozilla all da way

[sickboy_osX]

It depends, on what I am doing, sometimes I use Mozilla, and Micro$haft Internet Exploder.

You couldnt pay me enough to use Netsucks nonw, It used to be awesome, and now it just sucks @$$ :p

[3777]

I like iCab.......jeezch......:confused:

[mmmdreg]

Chimera..and you meant the nightlies named 0.5 didn't you, 'cause I see no .5 released yet...

[backspinner]

I use the latest builds of Chimera, and IE as back up (for testing and downloading).

[wilburpan]

Originally posted by edvniow
No Mac, but I'm using Mozilla 1.1 :)

Ditto for me.

[Mr. Anderson]

primary would be ie and sometimes mozilla

jaguar really helped ie and the scrolling issues

[irmongoose]

I used to use IE, moved to Mozilla, then Chimera, then back to IE for a while, and now on Chimera. I use OmniWeb once in while, just for the kick of it. I dunno, it's hard finding the right browser for me... the most promising though.. is of course Chimera. And, seeing that it is only officially at 0.4, I am very excited to see how the 1.0 release turns out to be like. I hope it doesn't go down the drain like Netscape.



irmongoose

[Jays]

Is use Chimera and Netscape 7 most of the time.
After a long time using Mozilla I switch to Netscape because Mozilla was annoyingly slow to use on my PBG4 550/768RAM.

I don't quite get it way most people here are not happy with Netscape, i think after the tragic 6 browser they are finally back.

BTW IE haven't used it in ages it totally sucks, anyway for someone who need more than only Roman characters IE is not an option, I'm not sure why but M$ does not support Hebrew on the Mac in any of it's programs.... but hey who needs them anyway.

[beez7777]

I use OmniWeb on a 17" iMac:)

[chmorley]

Originally posted by pimentoLoaf
Pardon my naivete, but what the bloody bleep is Chimera? Here is a newer link:

http://www.mozilla.org/projects/chimera/

It's been my number 1 for a few weeks now--switched from Mozilla when it finally became stable enough. I keep up with nightlies by using ChimeraKnight (http://www.versiontracker.com/moreinfo.fcgi?id=15664&db=mac).

Chris

[chmorley]

On another note, check out the change since this question was first asked:

January thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?threadid=1478)
April poll (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?threadid=4314)
June results (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?threadid=7058)

Not all of them, but a good sampling.

Interesting...

Chris

[mc68k]

Chimera has always been my browser of choice. Even when it was super-buggy, I still liked the fast rendering over anything else other browsers had to offer.

…and I still do :)

[dongmin]

thanks chmorley for the links. IE on Mac is dying, unless they do a bang-up job in the next update. And Apple should just throw all their weight behind Chimera, now that they don't care about pissing off MS.

Fast Browser Now!

[blackpeter]

I just installed Chimera, and WOW!

I voted Mozilla, but I think I might have a new favorite browser. This thing is fast, has tabbed browsing (don't see how anyone could browse any other way), and uses anti-aliasing.

Which brings me to a question: Which browsers currently use anti-aliasing? I know IE was the first, and now Chimera. Any other browsers use this feature?

[Rower_CPU]

Originally posted by tfaz1
I just installed Chimera, and WOW!

I voted Mozilla, but I think I might have a new favorite browser. This thing is fast, has tabbed browsing (don't see how anyone could browse any other way), and uses anti-aliasing.

Which brings me to a question: Which browsers currently use anti-aliasing? I know IE was the first, and now Chimera. Any other browsers use this feature?

Mozilla for sure...does Netscape as well?

[blackpeter]

Originally posted by Rower_CPU


Mozilla for sure...does Netscape as well?

I've got Moz 1.0, but I don't see AA. Is AA included in 1.1 then? And is 1.1 out of beta testing yet?

[Rower_CPU]

Originally posted by tfaz1
I've got Moz 1.0, but I don't see AA. Is AA included in 1.1 then? And is 1.1 out of beta testing yet?

Yeah, 1.1 is official...and it looks AA to me...:)

[blackpeter]

Originally posted by Rower_CPU


Yeah, 1.1 is official...and it looks AA to me...:)

Thanks Rower... So, which is your browser of choice? And why?

[Rower_CPU]

In case I haven't said it already...IE, with Chimera a close second.

It comes down to browsing habits for me. IE's keyboard shortcuts are better for me browsing without a mouse on my laptop.

Chimera is fast and renders well, so I'm keeping a close eye on it as it develops.

[stromie952]

I am currently running chimera 0.5 on my original icebook with 10.2 installed.

I have been running chimera since 0.2 and it has been my default browser for most of the time (otherwise it was Mozilla)

[stromie952]

Sorry to double post, but IE was NOT the first to have AA

Chimera has had it since 0.2 or before, I think

Sorry to burst your IE bubble.

[chmorley]

Originally posted by stromie952
Sorry to double post, but IE was NOT the first to have AA

Chimera has had it since 0.2 or before, I think

Sorry to burst your IE bubble. Correct, but not complete. Here is the order in in which they introduced AA:
1. Omniweb (for a long, long time)
2. Chimera (since 0.2.0, 4/6/02)
3. IE (5.2.1, 7/5/02)
4. Mozilla (with 1.1, 8/26/02)

Since Silk (http://www.unsanity.com/download.php?product=silk) was released (6/5/02), though, it hasn't really mattered. They all have AA now.

Chris

[chmorley]

The more I thought about it, the funnier it became--the notion that M$ would be the first to do something good and desirable. Makes me laugh still.

(still chuckling)

Chris

[stromie952]

Damn, I forgot about OmniWeb.

Thanx for the correction chmorley

[sparkleytone]

page 3 of the January thread....the discovery of Chimera.


i cant believe something such a short time ago could make me feel nostalgic.

thanks for the links.

[chmorley]

Originally posted by sparkleytone
page 3 of the January thread....the discovery of Chimera.


i cant believe something such a short time ago could make me feel nostalgic.

thanks for the links. Yeah. We were all trying to figure out what it was/wasn't. The thing that actually surprises me a bit is that so many were able to see the promise Chimera held even in its infancy. It was rough--certainly a work in progress.

I hardly every use anything else now. Still more work to be done, but it's largely fulfilled its promise.

Chris

[mac15]

hmmm, IE has lost its dominance, thats a good thing, but I saw on spoymac one user claimed he was using ibrowse and they had a pic but now tis down, it was based on the ghekko rendering engine

[SilvorX]

Originally posted by mac15
hmmm, IE has lost its dominance, thats a good thing, but I saw on spoymac one user claimed he was using ibrowse and they had a pic but now tis down, it was based on the ghekko rendering engine
lol must have links to apple ;) lol, n apple legals pretty strict...of course..
ya ie has lost its dominance on the mac market...since bout 10.1 or so came out n then mozilla n chimera kicked ie's a$$ if it had one lol

[sparkleytone]

it was bs.

[scem0]

After using Chimera it is hard to understand why anyone would vote for anything else. It is just so --- Fast... I could sort of understand voting for Mozilla, but in my opinion Mozilla is to bulky, while Chimera is fast and almost flawless. :D I like CHim.

[mac15]

Originally posted by sparkleytone
it was bs.

ofcourse it was bs, it was chimera skinned with that APE but unsanity, but I wonder if apple are making a browser for the mac

[scem0]

Originally posted by mac15


ofcourse it was bs, it was chimera skinned with that APE but unsanity, but I wonder if apple are making a browser for the mac

I sure hope so. And it is my guess that they are. They hired the Chimera dude, and yes - he is a good developer and he could be making any type of program, but my guess is that he is working on iSurf/iBrowse/iHaveastupidname. I could be wrong, but I have a strong feeling about this. An apple browser is the perfect missing iApp. Check out iBrowse, it is a Chimera modification, I dont know the link, so youll have to search. That is my idea of an apple browser.

[mac15]

ibroswe , show me, I need to see, there is something similar on windows, but thats windows

[ibjoshua]

using Chimera 0.5 on iBook 500 OSX.2
have to switch back to IE frequently as many e-commerce sites use JavaScript and are VERY IE-centric in their backward looking code.

as an aside, i think it's ironic that most folks are happy to chastise MS for being 'monopolistic' with their inclusion and integration of IE into their various OSes but no one here seems to care that if Apple were to create an 'iBrowser' they'd be doing the same thing. in fact when you look at it if you use the same arguments used against MS the whole 'iApps' suite looks pretty bad.
i for one hope Chimera stays independent of Apple and remains open source. it's a great piece of software.

i_b_joshua

[Rower_CPU]

Originally posted by i_b_joshua
using Chimera 0.5 on iBook 500 OSX.2
have to switch back to IE frequently as many e-commerce sites use JavaScript and are VERY IE-centric in their backward looking code.

as an aside, i think it's ironic that most folks are happy to chastise MS for being 'monopolistic' with their inclusion and integration of IE into their various OSes but no one here seems to care that if Apple were to create an 'iBrowser' they'd be doing the same thing. in fact when you look at it if you use the same arguments used against MS the whole 'iApps' suite looks pretty bad.
i for one hope Chimera stays independent of Apple and remains open source. it's a great piece of software.

i_b_joshua

You almost have a valid point there, but there is a huge difference between the iApps and MS integrating IE into Windows.

The way MS went about it, they used the same technology for local file management and for web browsing. IE is Windows Explorer and vice versa. With that level of integration, any other browseer gets left out in the cold in terms of performance and reliability.

Second, MS was very adamant about resellers including shortcuts to IE on the desktop, and not letting people remove it from the system. This has since changed, due to the recent legal developments.

So, unless Apple creates iFinder and makes it impossible to remove from the system...you can't begin to compare the two.

[chmorley]

Originally posted by i_b_joshua
...i think it's ironic that most folks are happy to chastise MS for being 'monopolistic' with their inclusion and integration of IE into their various OSes but no one here seems to care that if Apple were to create an 'iBrowser' they'd be doing the same thing. in fact when you look at it if you use the same arguments used against MS the whole 'iApps' suite looks pretty bad. Yeah, you've lumped two arguments together, though. Some complain that M$ integrates useful apps into the OS (e.g., defrag), hurting companies that make/made similar (typically better) apps. They can include the price of those apps in the OS, not giving consumers a choice about whether or not to pay for them. When you look at the increase in price of each M$ OS, this is a legitimate complaint. It's not clear that Apple is increasing the cost of their upgrades any faster than the Cost of Living. Their upgrades certainly cost less than those of M$.

The primary complaint, though (the one you seem to be missing), is that IE code is integrated into the OS, giving their browser an advantage over others'. This is why IE runs faster on XP than Mozilla--it's already loaded when you boot up. While their argument was that it improves user experience (by allowing them to experience their desktops as they do the web), the outcome is that it allows M$ to observe browsing habits (something Netscape also does, but gets less publicity for). I worry about a scary, draconian company having information about my browsing habits. I actually wouldn't worry too much about Apple knowing where and how I browse.

While the software development habits of the two companies may appear the same, I believe the motivation is different (and looking at market forces, this is easy to understand why). M$ wants to own your desktop. They want you to use Office, Money, and their OS so that they can rule the world. They fold what they can into the OS (charging you anyway), and charge ridiculous amounts of money for the other stuff (like Office). While Apple would probably like to be in that position, they have had to give away free software to convince people that spending their money to switch would be worth it. The typical knock against the Mac is that there are not enough software titles. Giving away multimedia apps like iMovie and iTunes shows how the Mac experience can be superior. Had they not done this, people would be much less likely to switch.

Having said all this, I remain disappointed that there is not a browser for OS X that measures up to the offerings for the PC. Apple surely knows this, and knows how important people's browsers are. I would not be surprised or disappointed if they chose to make one (although I don't think they will).

The world's a competitive place. It's tough to be the underdog in a market that is monopolized by one company. Apple will do what they believe they need to.

Chris

[blackpeter]

I've been using Chimera for only 5 days now and I'm hooked. I've removed IE and Mozilla from my dock. I have yet to encounter a site that Chimera cannot handle (though I'm sure some are out there).

It's the only X browser that I've used that moves as fast as IE in OS 9.

[ibjoshua]

Originally posted by chmorley
Yeah, you've lumped two arguments together, though. Some complain that M$ integrates useful apps into the OS (e.g., defrag), hurting companies that make/made similar (typically better) apps.
fair enough. although whether you think the 'Active Desktop' model is best or not (personally i hate it) surely you can't criticise a company for adopting it? you can of course criticise the way they implement it.


While their argument was that it improves user experience (by allowing them to experience their desktops as they do the web)
a pretty fair argument whether you agree with it or not surely? (again please note that i emphatically don't - just trying to be fair)

Originally posted by Rower_CPU
... MS was very adamant about resellers including shortcuts to IE on the desktop, and not letting people remove it from the system. This has since changed, due to the recent legal developments.
to me this seems far more serious. lets not forget though the number of enhancements both OS families (win/mac) have had over the years that have been directly lifted from independent software developments. (i can't think of any off the top my head :) but every time i load a new OS version i seem to be able to leave old third party utilities/apps off the required software list). it is in the nature of these companies to absorb into their OS/GUIs ideas and technologies from external sources. sometimes they give credit and or pay for ti sometimes they don't.

I worry about a scary, draconian company having information about my browsing habits.
totally agreed.


I actually wouldn't worry too much about Apple knowing where and how I browse.
couldn't disagree more. in fact i'm amazed that anyone could say that. i don't want any company having unnecessary information about me no matter how benign you may think they are.


While the software development habits of the two companies may appear the same, I believe the motivation is different (and looking at market forces, this is easy to understand why).
i'll have to take your word on Apple's habits and would have to agree that it is public knowledge that MS have undertaken some insidious anti-competitive practices.

M$ wants to own your desktop.
i'm not convinced that apple doesn't. although i do agree they are going about it in a different manner.

While Apple would probably like to be in that position..
agreed. after all they too are a corporate body that has shareholders etc.

Giving away multimedia apps like iMovie and iTunes shows how the Mac experience can be superior. Had they not done this, people would be much less likely to switch.
that may be (and i for one love using them) but it doesn't leave a lot of scope for other software developers does it?

Having said all this, I remain disappointed that there is not a browser for OS X that measures up to the offerings for the PC. Apple surely knows this, and knows how important people's browsers are.
agreed and i hope chimera becomes that browser. it certainly looks like it will.

let me just say, i didn't set out to use my post to defend MS. i simply wanted to question the almost religious belief that some on these mac forums have in Apple's benevolence by illuminating some parrallels as i perceive them.

i_b_joshua

[chmorley]

Originally posted by i_b_joshua
let me just say, i didn't set out to use my post to defend MS. i simply wanted to question the almost religious belief that some on these mac forums have in Apple's benevolence by illuminating some parrallels as i perceive them.Understood--and well-made points, BTW. I actually hate the active desktop, but understand how it might help my grandmother become more comfortable with her computer and the internet.

I also would point out that my trust in Apple is what informs my opinion that they created these apps to help motivate others to switch. I could be completely wrong--their true motivation could be much closer to M$'s. However, I actually think that their i-offerings are bare-bones ways to get started in multimedia apps. There remains vast room for power-user and professional apps. Granted, they are giving away the sub-$100 apps that many companies would like to make, but no one was making them.

Anyway, I think it's silly when people follow Apple blindly and/or believe they are all-good. However, I don't believe that their practices are "monopolistic" in the way M$'s are.

Chris

[ibjoshua]

Originally posted by chmorley
Understood--and well-made points, BTW. I actually hate the active desktop, but understand how it might help my grandmother become more comfortable with her computer and the internet.

I also would point out that my trust in Apple is what informs my opinion that they created these apps to help motivate others to switch. I could be completely wrong--their true motivation could be much closer to M$'s. However, I actually think that their i-offerings are bare-bones ways to get started in multimedia apps. There remains vast room for power-user and professional apps. Granted, they are giving away the sub-$100 apps that many companies would like to make, but no one was making them.

Anyway, I think it's silly when people follow Apple blindly and/or believe they are all-good. However, I don't believe that their practices are "monopolistic" in the way M$'s are.

Chris

agreed. i would like to believe that Apple is a benevolent Big Brother looking out for me but unfortunately for them i'm a sceptic (or a realist as we like to call ourselves ;)).

josh