How long until the Dual 1.25GHz G4 is obsolete?

[Doctor Q]

My shiny new Dual 1.25GHz Power Mac G4 arrived today. I ordered it the day this model was announced, so I assume I am the first on my block to have the fastest Mac ever made... but only until they announce the next new machine.

I find it amusing that people are so worried about their computer becoming obsolete. If it does what you bought it for, and continues to do what you bought it for, you should be happy with it!

I should know. I was the first on my block to buy a Mac IIvx (the first model with a CD-ROM drive), which was "obsoleted" by Apple 3 or 4 months later. Nevertheless, it continued to read my CD-ROMs and let me do word processing, photo editing, etc.

Now I'm into Final Cut Pro, and this machine should serve me just fine for years, no matter what Apple announces next week/month/year!

[vniow]

Yesterday. :)

[DreaminDirector]

Yeah, I feel the same way about my TiBook 800. I bought it about a month ago and already people are talking about all the improvements that are coming. When's the next upgrade? Few weeks? yeah, should've waited. Oh well, this industry's like that....


damn, should've waited....

[nuckinfutz]

It'll take a leaper much bigger than just a megahertz jump to obsolete your Mac.

Speed is nice but as with any computer...you are the slowest input device. I think you'll be happy with the dual 1.25 for years.

[arn]

Originally posted by DreaminDirector

damn, should've waited....

naw... not necessarily. You're using your computer now... Once the Powerbooks are revised, there will be talk of the next one... then the next one... etc...

Unless you stop visiting rumor sites, you'll always hear about the next best thing

arn

[RBMaraman]

Everyone is going to be really pissed when they offer dual G5's in January. It would be really cool if they did that, bet I bet they'd piss off a ton of people who just bought dual G4's.

[Malus120]

nah i doubt it most peeps considering buying DP G4's now(me included) are well aware of the risk involved. Anyone who isnt must be living in a cave

[DreaminDirector]

Originally posted by Arn

Unless you stop visiting rumor sites, you'll always hear about the next best thing




Yeah, since I joined MacRumors, I've learned a lot and I'm more paranoid. Go figure. Thanks Arn, for being a voice of reason.

[wilburpan]

Originally posted by arn

Unless you stop visiting rumor sites, you'll always hear about the next best thing
I remember when I bought my first computer. The advice I got was, "Spend as much as you can afford. Then do not open a computer magazine for at least 12 months." :)

[Mr. Anderson]

Originally posted by wilburpan

I remember when I bought my first computer. The advice I got was, "Spend as much as you can afford. Then do not open a computer magazine for at least 12 months." :)

ha, great advice. But I think Doctor Q has the right attitude. It will continue to serve him well for years to come. I'm working on my PowerMacG4 450 right now and I still use it as my main machine at home (I have a 667 TiPB for work) and I bought it when it first came out, so that's about 3 years ago....not bad if you ask me.

So I'll be looking to buy a new machine next year and look forward to what ever it is G5, Power4, what ever. And by then the G6 and Power5 will be front page of MacRumors....

D

[Nipsy]

I used a 9600 every day for many, many years.

When I sold it a few months back, it was running 10.1 faster than an iMac 600, had 2 internal optical drives, 5 internal hard drives, and was still not truly obsolete.

'Course, I had a G4 in it, 1.5GB of RAM, and FireWire and USB.

A top end Mac will be usable for 5 years, and a consumer Mac is usually good for 3. It you keep using today's software, it will remain usable forever!

[Kid Red]

Obsolete? Two ways to look at it.

1)Obsolete as far as technology is concerned, in 6 months when your's becomes the low end.
2)Obsolete in usability terms? 3-5 years depending on how bloated apps and OS's get.

[MacBandit]

Well in my opinion it will be quite a while before it is even replaced let alone made obsolete. I think it will probably be July '03 before you see new Towers again. Maybe just maybe you might see a slight speed bump before then but I find it unlikely.

People keep crying about how slow Macs are compared to PCs. This is just stupid. These are the crys of people that are either uniformed or underpaid (in other words they can't afford it and are making themselves think that they don't want it anyways by putting it down).

Let me tell you I bought my B/W G3 400 when it first came out about 3.5 years ago and that has been the longest period of time I have ever owned used a single computer. Why is this? Because the performance satisfied me until OSX came out. Well here I am typing this on my brand new shiny Dual Ghz/DDR and let me tell you this it's blindingly fast especially when it comes to system bogging tasks. Like multitasking for example I have burned a CD while running RC5 and Folding@Home in the background and then started up Unreal Tournament and played a few rounds with little to no drop in speed and stability. Lets see you do that with ANY PC. I did this all while my PC using friends looked (drooled) on. They could not believe there eyes and both started mumbling simultaneously I got to have one.

The point is I think I can be happy with this computer for even longer then my B/W G3 because dollar to dollar (I paid the same for the B/W as I did the dual/ddr) my new machine is twice what the old one was when it was new.

Obsolete is more a mindset not than an actual practical thing.

[iGav]

Doctor Q I really wouldn't worry about the Dual 1.25 being obsolete anytime soon.....

There are far too many people that have hard on's for the latest and greatest...... and listening to them you'd believe that the current Mac's are good for nothing other than maybe emailing....... *and generally statistically these people have a G4 450.... ha ha*

*total envy though* that Dual 1.25 puppy you have must be like a rocket...... And it will last you years, exactly like what Duke said.......

Don't forget to post some thoughts etc on spped, smoothness and that multiple fan start up sequence..... :)

[iwantanewmac]

Sorry to say it once again but I REALLY hope you all get "yikesed" soon
and that something really new comes uot early next year. Then I'll buy.
Until then I'll keep my money in my pocket. :)

[Chaszmyr]

It might only be another month before we have a "confirmed" rumor abuot a new powermac coming out thats twice as fast... And while yes, that would suck for those of us with DDR powermacs, we as apple users have one perk. Apple only updates their products once every 5 months or less (Almost always less), if you keep up on stuff your comp can be top of the line for 5+ months. PC users on the other hand can get a new comp and it be outdated the next week (it happened to me...)

[StealthRider]

August 13, 2002

[rugby]

Making a computer obsolete is a bit harder these days. My G4/400 is 3 years old. It was the low-end tower at the time and it's server admirably as my main work horse. It's getting put to pasture in a week or so when my dual 867 gets here (my wife is getting it). If you're looking to run FCP 3 with all the latest filters then you probably are more inclined to get a faster computer than most people.

Shoot, in a year or so when G4 upgrades come down in price I"ll probably pick up whatever I can get 2-300 bucks and give it some more life.

[MacBandit]

[MacBandit]

originally posted by iwantanewmac

Sorry to say it once again but I REALLY hope you all get "yikesed" soon and that something really new comes out early next year. Then I'll buy. Until then I'll keep my money in my pocket. :)

Who cares if we get, "yikesed". These current machines are faster then 99% of all people can and will use anyway. That's the problem with the current computer insustry. The portion of people driving for faster and faster hardware is gettting smaller and smaller. At some point there won't be enough money in driving the computer speed up at the current rate and it will slow because the slowest part of most systems today is the human user.

Again, I repat I am enjoying currently one fo the fastest personal computers in the world while you do what!? I hope the green or plastic or whatever you have in your pocket is bringing as big of smiles to your face as this computer is doing for me.

[ddtlm]

MacBandit:

Like multitasking for example I have burned a CD while running RC5 and Folding@Home in the background and then started up Unreal Tournament and played a few rounds with little to no drop in speed and stability. Lets see you do that with ANY PC. I did this all while my PC using friends looked (drooled) on. They could not believe there eyes and both started mumbling simultaneously I got to have one.
And you think that's impressive? Did that on my two year old Linux dual Xeon 700/1mb long ago. Except I was running Quake3 and two seti@homes, since folding@home didn't exist at the time.

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by edvniow
Yesterday. :)

...or the day before that:D

when the first imac was announced, apple said it would have a 33k modem, but by the time they shipped, they were 56k modems

months after i got my ibook, apple doubled the RAM and hard drive and kept the price the same

[Panda Genma]

Well 1.25 owners should be pretty well off for quite a few years, seeing as Apple's definition of obsolete means that they no longer make parts for it. There aren't too many obsolete Apple computers, and before they are obsolete they are concidered vintage.

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by Panda Genma
Well 1.25 owners should be pretty well off for quite a few years, seeing as Apple's definition of obsolete means that they no longer make parts for it. There aren't too many obsolete Apple computers, and before they are obsolete they are concidered vintage.

apple soon stops making parts for a machine, after one or two years, but i found out from macwarehouse.com that a company called vst, among many others, takes the manufacturing rights and continues to make parts as needed to supply the owners of older computers

so if your three year apple care runs out, don't worry...someone like vst will be there to make sure your mac or pc will be running for another three years

but as a techie, i have to admit, after seeing literally thousands of computers, a six year old daily working machine is not as common as let's say, a six year old stapler, desk, or office chair

but thank god for vst and others, even if the prices seem a little "high";)

[D*I*S_Frontman]

I disagree that the segment of the market that drives CPU speed lust is growing smaller. When it comes to computer speed, "perceived value" rules the marketplace, not real computing power being continuously employed by the end user. Here are two automotive analogies:

SUVs: I live in suburban Chicago where 4WD Lexus, BMW, and Mercedes driven by the affluent can be seen on nearly every street. I bet the average usage of 4WD systems to get these people out of a jam occurs maybe once or twice a year. Yes we have harsh winters, but the roads are plowed and sanded/salted as necessary. There is absolutely NO NEED for that kind of performance.

SPORTS CARS: I also see Posche 911s all over the place. Beautiful car that can go from 0-60 in less than five seconds. Top speed of 150 mph. NO ONE can even BEGIN to employ this kind of brute force in the city. You would have to drive to Montana to open the thing up.

In both cases, the bragged upon features are essentially useless to the owner 95+% of the time. But people still buy SUVs and sporty cars in DROVES.

If you are running FCP3, doing audio engineeering, or doing tons of high-end Photoshop rendering work, a powerful computer might lead to productivity increases. Then yearly upgrades are probably a must, as the money you spend on the latest system is actually recouped in increased productivity.

Most of us, however, tap the full strength of our CPUs rarely, and having durable hardware with a stable OS is far more important than a slightly faster system. Heck, I am typing this on my G3/400 Pismo which is my sole computer, and while I will someday do the NewerTech G4/500 upgrade, I am not "suffering" the way it is. I don't know what a "snappy" OS is, but I do know that OS X 10.1.5 seems to be every bit as fast as OS9 was/is, just as stable, and now utterly crash-proof.

I am in a band and my bass player (who engineers our material) wants to get a Mac. I have told him that he should get two: a 12.1 iBook now (best computing value on the planet right now, $ per feature, IMHO) and wait a year for a new tower once the new chips come out. 90% of everything he'll ever do will be easily done by the iBook (WP, web, email, finance, database/spreadsheet, etc., plus it's portable) and the heavy lifting of recording, mixing and mastering up to 48 tracks of 24bit/96khz audio (complete with lots of plug-ins) can be done by the next generation of Macs. The only reason I would ever suggest he wait is that current Macs don't have the raw power to run MOTU's DP @24/96 for 48 tracks w/plug-ins.

But that is a case of actually using close to 100% of system resources to accomplish the task for which you bought the thing. Once he acquires the system, he won't need a new one for years--if EVER. Once your system can do everything you ask it to, reliably, you don't NEED a new computer--EVER.

This discussion is rarely about "need," however. It's about gear lust.

EDIT: Oh, and if your primary system draw is from some GAME (insert your favorite title here), why not just get a dedicated gaming system instead of making your computer a toy?

[DreaminDirector]

Originally posted by D*I*S_Frontman

It's about gear lust.



Isn't it always though? I guess its partly being a guy and the other part a gadget freak. I agree wholeheartly with D*I*S_Frontman. I, for one, have a Dual 450 G4 and it runs Jag-wire just fine. But something inside of me screams "go faster, bigger, better". I guess that's why I usually hurt myself in extreme sports.

[Doctor Q]

I was surprised to find that the new Mac arrived with Mac OS X 10.2.1 already installed. I thought I would find a bunch of software updates pending, but the only one was iTunes 3.0.1.

The version of Darwin was compiled only 11 days before this Mac shipped. Now that's up-to-date!

[tjwett]

> How long until the Dual 1.25GHz G4 is obsolete?

I'd say about 6 months....ago.

[scem0]

They are already obsolete whenit comes to speed per $, I know I will get flamed but this is how I feel. I dont know why anyone in their right mind would buy a dual 1.25 g4 when they can get a 2.8 GHz pent 4 for cheaper, especially if you dont mind widows. OS X and iApps are good, but not that good. I am staying with apple, because I expect them to have some powerful stuff by this time next year by IBM, and not Motorola. If moto can't make a fast processor, find someone who can. Dont flame me, just acknowledge that this is how I feel. :)

[jefhatfield]

i hear some of your points scem 0,

but when os x really grows up with "enough" industry support...or until i stop hearing complaints because apple finally got it "right";

and when macs go 2 ghz;

then who will care if wintels go 3.5 ghz?

will speed be a major issue then?

or will we have to catch up with the wintel world, ghz for ghz? (which i doubt will be necessary once ALL computers are faster than the needs of people)

[edesignuk]

Originally posted by ddtlm

And you think that's impressive? Did that on my two year old Linux dual Xeon 700/1mb long ago. Except I was running Quake3 and two seti@homes, since folding@home didn't exist at the time.
I would expect dual 700Mhz w/ 1Mb cache Xeons to perform as you say, they are/were VERY expensive CPU's.

[scem0]

Originally posted by jefhatfield
i hear some of your points scem 0,

but when os x really grows up with "enough" industry support...or until i stop hearing complaints because apple finally got it "right";

and when macs go 2 ghz;

then who will care if wintels go 3.5 ghz?

will speed be a major issue then?

or will we have to catch up with the wintel world, ghz for ghz? (which i doubt will be necessary once ALL computers are faster than the needs of people)

Exactly why I am still with mac. Just waiting until speed isnt an issue, because all comps will be fast as hell, and OS is more important. Waiting for that and a real Kazaa client for mac (and not iSwipe)...

[DipDog3]

If the computer you are using does what you need, why does it matter how fast it is?

I don't have a mac yet, but I am still using a 266Mhz PC and it runs everything that I need pretty well. (for a Windoze machine)

The computer industry is getting to the point where there is no need to upgrade to faster machines.

Really, how much speed do you need? That's the question you need to ask.

And a Mac never becomes obsolete, just sell it on ebay, someone will buy it!

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by D*I*S_Frontman
I disagree that the segment of the market that drives CPU speed lust is growing smaller. When it comes to computer speed, "perceived value" rules the marketplace, not real computing power being continuously employed by the end user. Here are two automotive analogies:

SUVs: I live in suburban Chicago where 4WD Lexus, BMW, and Mercedes driven by the affluent can be seen on nearly every street. I bet the average usage of 4WD systems to get these people out of a jam occurs maybe once or twice a year. Yes we have harsh winters, but the roads are plowed and sanded/salted as necessary. There is absolutely NO NEED for that kind of performance.

SPORTS CARS: I also see Posche 911s all over the place. Beautiful car that can go from 0-60 in less than five seconds. Top speed of 150 mph. NO ONE can even BEGIN to employ this kind of brute force in the city. You would have to drive to Montana to open the thing up.

In both cases, the bragged upon features are essentially useless to the owner 95+% of the time. But people still buy SUVs and sporty cars in DROVES.

If you are running FCP3, doing audio engineeering, or doing tons of high-end Photoshop rendering work, a powerful computer might lead to productivity increases. Then yearly upgrades are probably a must, as the money you spend on the latest system is actually recouped in increased productivity.

Most of us, however, tap the full strength of our CPUs rarely, and having durable hardware with a stable OS is far more important than a slightly faster system. Heck, I am typing this on my G3/400 Pismo which is my sole computer, and while I will someday do the NewerTech G4/500 upgrade, I am not "suffering" the way it is. I don't know what a "snappy" OS is, but I do know that OS X 10.1.5 seems to be every bit as fast as OS9 was/is, just as stable, and now utterly crash-proof.

I am in a band and my bass player (who engineers our material) wants to get a Mac. I have told him that he should get two: a 12.1 iBook now (best computing value on the planet right now, $ per feature, IMHO) and wait a year for a new tower once the new chips come out. 90% of everything he'll ever do will be easily done by the iBook (WP, web, email, finance, database/spreadsheet, etc., plus it's portable) and the heavy lifting of recording, mixing and mastering up to 48 tracks of 24bit/96khz audio (complete with lots of plug-ins) can be done by the next generation of Macs. The only reason I would ever suggest he wait is that current Macs don't have the raw power to run MOTU's DP @24/96 for 48 tracks w/plug-ins.

But that is a case of actually using close to 100% of system resources to accomplish the task for which you bought the thing. Once he acquires the system, he won't need a new one for years--if EVER. Once your system can do everything you ask it to, reliably, you don't NEED a new computer--EVER.

This discussion is rarely about "need," however. It's about gear lust.

EDIT: Oh, and if your primary system draw is from some GAME (insert your favorite title here), why not just get a dedicated gaming system instead of making your computer a toy?


You're correct and correct again but your confirmed what I said in that the market is shrinking. How many $60,000 Suvs or $100,000 Porche's are sold a year compared to say a Toyota Corolla. I don't don't know the figures but I'm sure the high end vehicles mentioned fit into at the most %5 of the market. How large do you think the market needs to be to poor billions into developing a 5 or 6 Ghz chip when %95 of the people out there are happy with what they have and if they buy a new computer they're going to get something cheap because the cheapes computer out there is faster then what they have.

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by DipDog3
If the computer you are using does what you need, why does it matter how fast it is?

I don't have a mac yet, but I am still using a 266Mhz PC and it runs everything that I need pretty well. (for a Windoze machine)

The computer industry is getting to the point where there is no need to upgrade to faster machines.

Really, how much speed do you need? That's the question you need to ask.

And a Mac never becomes obsolete, just sell it on ebay, someone will buy it!

You are the person I have been trying to explain to the community. Why do people need faster cpu/computers if what they have already satisfies them. I would say that people like you make up nearly 75% of the market currently and growing.

In reply to some other people saying they are waiting to buy there next Apple when they are so fast speed doesn't matter for the few of us like you that you will always want something faster. I know I will but I'm not willing to wait 2 years for Apple to release something faster. So I bought now and guess what this thing is so fast I could easily wait 4 maybe 5 years. I know this based on how long I kept my last computer and comparring the the equivalent speeds of them when they were new. Meanwhile I will enjoy my new computer in the time it takes Apple to release the next fastest thing.

[barkmonster]

I think no matter what software you're using, if the dual 1.25Ghz G4 is significantly faster than you're current mac and you can afford one it's worth buying. twice the clock speed doesn't equal twice the performance, it never will. That means you'd need apple to bring out a dual 2Ghz G4 before there was something around 50% faster than the 1.25Ghz model.

At the rate apple are progressing I'd say 18 months - 2 years would be long enough for a model of that spec to come out.

[3777]

..........and hopefully they will get rid of the butt ugly "new" Powermac case too.

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by 3777
..........and hopefully they will get rid of the butt ugly "new" Powermac case too.

but it's what's under the hood that matters...faster bus, ddr, better video card, more ram supported, etc...

but i hate those vents in the front...ugly;)

[Jookbox]

Originally posted by edvniow
Yesterday. :)

haha! i agree unfortunately

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by 3777
..........and hopefully they will get rid of the butt ugly "new" Powermac case too.

After spending some time with my new Dual/DDR I have to say I really like the new case. When the warranty is up on it I'm going to strip the paint from the panels and repaint them black and then it will look really good.

[3777]

Originally posted by MacBandit


After spending some time with my new Dual/DDR I have to say I really like the new case. When the warranty is up on it I'm going to strip the paint from the panels and repaint them black and then it will look really good.

I know the new Powermac must be a great system to own, but I do think the hardware upgrades recently are just too incremental, and I think the 1.25ghz Dual G4 is just a sort term solution to a much larger issue. Apple really needs to upgrade everything in a big way. They shouldn't even be selling stuff with G3 processors anymore, and their low end G4's should be selling for a lot less. I am sure your system will look good, but still, the overall look of the line is definitely a step backwards from the Quicksilver case. I just hope whatever they come up with next is completely different, sleek, and has a 2ghz G5 processor in it:D

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by 3777


I know the new Powermac must be a great system to own, but I do think the hardware upgrades recently are just too incremental, and I think the 1.25ghz Dual G4 is just a sort term solution to a much larger issue. Apple really needs to upgrade everything in a big way. They shouldn't even be selling stuff with G3 processors anymore, and their low end G4's should be selling for a lot less. I am sure your system will look good, but still, the overall look of the line is definitely a step backwards from the Quicksilver case. I just hope whatever they come up with next is completely different, sleek, and has a 2ghz G5 processor in it:D

The looks is definitely and oppinionated thing because I never like the Quicksilver. I thought it was too plain in it's all grey case. I too agree that they need to do something and get faster processors. What I do not agree on is that we are falling behind. The overall system is very comparable to the fastest PCs out there. I do want Apple to wipe the floor with PCs though and have something twice as fast as the fastest PC. Meanwhile though I am not waiting just as I did not wait for the G4 when I got my B/W G3. Meanwhile I will really enjoy this one until they come out with something 4-5 times faster just as this one is about 8-10 times faster then my G3400. Then I will buy the G5 or whatever is out then this will probably be 3-5 years down the road and I do not expect a new chip for at least a year at the earliest and most likely it will be 2 years from what I've read.