Anyone here have a dual 867?

[SilvorX]

im thinking about getting a dual 867, and i was wondering:

-is it any good (as in is it fast/reliable/etc)?

-do the new powermacs take advantage of ddr ram (cuz i heard they dont)

-how well do applications run on it (ex: ie/office x/vpc/photoshop)

-is it worth the money or should i just get a G4 imac?

-whats the difference on the about this mac screen for a dual 867 (for when it displays the processor info)

-which is better, a dual 867 or a 933 quicksilver (for stuff like speed, classic compatibility, reliability, etc)

sorry for all the questions but im thinking more and more which mac im going to get in november
thanx
-Silv0rX

[giovanni]

I have had one for a few weeks now.
I am very happy, no complaints.
I was waiting for Macs beyond the G4 to tell you the truth, but then I realized this ain't happening anytime soon. Hence I decided to go for the 867 while I wait for the next Mac paradigm (sorry spelling unsure). I really did not even consider the Dual 1 or 1.25ghz - in my truly modest opinion not worth so much more money, not to me anyway. Especially after reading about the lack of additional performance from ddr.

I would definitely for Dual 867 rather than 933. I think it is obvious, or almost so. The beauty of it is how you can run different processes at the same time w/o significant impact on performance.

I still have not had enough time to run many applications. The iXXXX applications seem to work great and FCP works almost like a charm and they all run really fast (again, this is such a relative concept!).

Again, I love it, I am super happy and now I can wait in peace till the next generation Macs.

Go for it !

gio

[Jimong5]

Originally posted by giovanni
I have had one for a few weeks now.
I am very happy, no complaints.
I was waiting for Macs beyond the G4 to tell you the truth, but then I realized this ain't happening anytime soon. Hence I decided to go for the 867 while I wait for the next Mac paradigm (sorry spelling unsure). I really did not even consider the Dual 1 or 1.25ghz - in my truly modest opinion not worth so much more money, not to me anyway. Especially after reading about the lack of additional performance from ddr.

I would definitely for Dual 867 rather than 933. I think it is obvious, or almost so. The beauty of it is how you can run different processes at the same time w/o significant impact on performance.

I still have not had enough time to run many applications. The iXXXX applications seem to work great and FCP works almost like a charm and they all run really fast (again, this is such a relative concept!).

Again, I love it, I am super happy and now I can wait in peace till the next generation Macs.

Go for it !

gio

I agree, i have had one for a while now (1 month anniversary the 24th!) and it is a steal for what you pay. I BTOed mine up to 3k (17", 9000, and Super) and so far its everything i want it to be and more. the 933 will see marginal gains in tasks that don't take advantage of Duals, but its not worth it for say the ATA 100,, front headphone jack (this is a godsend for me) and 2nd optical bay. When i tested MP3 rip, i got 15x, and this was with about 7 Apps open. I bet that will soar when I add some RAM though. I also get 60-70 FPS at 1280x1024 in UT X3. overall i am very satisfied, and it kills my Gs 400 PB, which was CPU loaded with just having those 7 apps open.

[SilvorX]

hmm jimong doesnt seem too happy bout his pmac ;) lol
everyones like "oh get a quicksilver" even tho dual processor and dual optical drives sounds promising and im into expansion (harddrive wise) so it would be better than the quicksilver
does the dual pmac take advantage of ddr ram or just run it as sdram?

[BongHits]

it takes advantage of ddr ram...the front side bus is just lacking in speed...so i really dont know what it means...but does proccesing on the up and down cycles for the ram so it is dual data rate...basically the computer can send info to and from the RAM modules at twice the speed of a quicksilver....but the processor is running at a marginally improved speed of the QS (assuming it's a 167 fsb, not 133) which gives it a max of about 1.3 gb a sec instead of just 1.0....but all that really only matters when your maxing out the processors capabilities (im talking out of my ass so hopefully someone will confirm this)

[iJon]

Go for the dual, at my parents apple store we have all the macs. the 17 inch kicks ass but you will notice the lag in high end applications. it just depends what your are doing. althought the 17 inch is so cool looking and the screen is soo big, you have to see it in person. they are both great machines, just decide what you are going to be doing. i have the dual 1ghz and it is great, so fast.

iJon

[SilvorX]

ya its basically time for process of elimination when im at the computer store, since its basically the same price (17" imac and dual powermac) but i dont really have a need for superdrive, but it includes a widescreen monitor (lcd)
but i really need to take advantage of my dvd-rom drive/40 gig drive cuz i dont want them to collect dust...
the 933 powermac seemed faster in my opinion than any pc ive used (cuz os 10.1.5 was speedy, stable, didnt act lazy) lol, so the dual 867 is probably pretty sweet...

[Funkatation]

I get a 20X rip in iTunes on my Dual 800... not with the superdrive though, thats with a MUCH faster firewire cdrw attached. the superdrive is realllllly slow. i was getting 5-9x with it.:(

[SilvorX]

ouch :( ya the superdrive/combo drives are way TOO slow :(, thats one of the reasons y im adding on my 16x dvd rom drive as a 2ndary optical drive if i get a dual pmac
n theres combo drives out there for about $100 US or so that have almost the same burning speed as a high end burner and 16x dvd...dont u think apple should be upgrading their hardware line cuz it looks like they should...but they shouldve kept the burner model, cuz i think it was 24x and one burner and one dvd rom drive wouldve been fine with me....

[Performfreak]

Ahhh, I love my new Dual 867...
I got an educational deal (college) on mine so I was able to get the whole package with upgraded ATI 9000 and 80 gig hard drive for $1664, a good deal, I must say... :cool: Then I bought another 512mb of ram for $127 from OWC, so now I have a kickin system!!!!

I couldn't ask for any more out of it, and my favorite part is how good it is at multitasking, I can be talking to people, listening to mp3s, downloading a file and browsin the net, with no lag! And I was rippin mp3s at 21x with the quality set to the highest (192) Of course, that's a big change from the OS 9 days and my grape 333 imac (maybe 3x if I was lucky)!

Yeah, not to mention how easy it was to upgrade, but you all know that. Plus, the second fan kicks in once in a blue moon, so it's not loud at all (in my opinion...). I'd been lookin for a new computer in the <$2000 range, and at first I was lookin for a laptop, but this deal was SO good I couldn't pass it up. And it kicks arse at games as well, even in OS 9 (since I've only been downloadin demos... I'm a poor college student) but I "borrowed" my friends warcraft III disc, so now I've been playin that and it runs flawlessly.

My advice... BUY IT!!!!!!!!!!

[SilvorX]

lol since it sounds like u really love it, i'll check it out when i go to the mac store
hopefully i'll end up getting a pmac, if not probably a low end imac or high end emac...

[G4scott]

Is the faster bus, Radeon 9000, bigger HD, and the Super Drive worth paying $1000 more for a dual 1Ghz G4? I might trade in my old G4 today, and I'm trying to decide if it'd be better to save money, and add features that I'd need, or just go get the dual 1Ghz, with plenty of features...

[G5orbust]

I've had the privilage of using one at my local apple store. I also ran simple benchmarks for SilvorX using the apple store wide range of preloaded programs such as photoshop 7 and VPC 5.0. It was great. Most normal programs loaded in under 3 seconds (example: internet explorer, quicktime player, itunes, etc). VPC fully booted in 45 seconds and photoshop took somwhere around 14 seconds to fully load. O an I ran these time trials w/ ichat running and two IM windows open, so without ichat on, these programs will load even faster.

Amazing specs saying it only costs 1699. Add 256 MB more RAM (or 512 if your a big poweruser) and a Raedon 9000 Pro (Making it abround 1800 bucks, which is still reasonable) and you got a top notch system for an extremely reasonable price (even tho 1800 bucks in canadian dollars is a large figure somwhere in the range of like 3700 $CDN)

[SilvorX]

actually it'dd be $2700 ;) lol

ya hopefully i get a monitor b4 i get the puter, then when i get the puter, i get 512 megs more ram....
for photoshop that sounds a lil slow, but ive never used photoshop so it may be slow on all os's

[G5orbust]

Originally posted by SilvorX
actually it'dd be $2700 ;) lol

ya hopefully i get a monitor b4 i get the puter, then when i get the puter, i get 512 megs more ram....
for photoshop that sounds a lil slow, but ive never used photoshop so it may be slow on all os's

hehe oops.... Guess my math is a little off. 1000$CDN isnt THAT much.... hehe :p ;)

[SilvorX]

Originally posted by G5orbust


hehe oops.... Guess my math is a little off. 1000$CDN isnt THAT much.... hehe :p ;)
hmm *checks* ouch only $630 US, the canadian economy is getting crappy now days :(

[MacBandit]

I have a Dual Ghz/DDR and I get regularly with the superdrive 23-25x rips when nearing the end of the cd.

If you're wondering about the DDR implementation I recommend you read this thread.

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10377


By the way the DDR Macs beat the older macs hands down when you're using heavy multitasking.

[SilvorX]

grr, i hate it when ppl are like "hahaha you want a mac? u must be a damn idiot! only idiots would ever buy a mac" n actually someones saying that right now...

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by G5orbust
I've had the privilage of using one at my local apple store. I also ran simple benchmarks for SilvorX using the apple store wide range of preloaded programs such as photoshop 7 and VPC 5.0. It was great. Most normal programs loaded in under 3 seconds (example: internet explorer, quicktime player, itunes, etc). VPC fully booted in 45 seconds and photoshop took somwhere around 14 seconds to fully load. O an I ran these time trials w/ ichat running and two IM windows open, so without ichat on, these programs will load even faster.

Amazing specs saying it only costs 1699. Add 256 MB more RAM (or 512 if your a big poweruser) and a Raedon 9000 Pro (Making it abround 1800 bucks, which is still reasonable) and you got a top notch system for an extremely reasonable price (even tho 1800 bucks in canadian dollars is a large figure somwhere in the range of like 3700 $CDN)


Remember this is all with the stock 256MB. Everything will speed up significantly with at least a total of 512MB. The $100USD is not worth it for the ATI9000. There is not really any speed difference between it and the G4MX and even in some things the G4MX is faster. The biggest difference between the two is the hardware T&L on the ATI9000 though from what I have read the ATI9000 is hardly fast enough to take advantage of this.

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by G4scott
Is the faster bus, Radeon 9000, bigger HD, and the Super Drive worth paying $1000 more for a dual 1Ghz G4? I might trade in my old G4 today, and I'm trying to decide if it'd be better to save money, and add features that I'd need, or just go get the dual 1Ghz, with plenty of features...


With education discount wich almost anyone can get I purchased my Dual Ghz/DDR for around $2400. I opted for the G4MX which took another $100 off the education price. I'm holding out for the ATI9700.

[G5orbust]

Originally posted by MacBandit



Remember this is all with the stock 256MB. Everything will speed up significantly with at least a total of 512MB. The $100USD is not worth it for the ATI9000. There is not really any speed difference between it and the G4MX and even in some things the G4MX is faster. The biggest difference between the two is the hardware T&L on the ATI9000 though from what I have read the ATI9000 is hardly fast enough to take advantage of this.

Yeah theres a big difference. The 9000 has vertex and pixel shaders.. a biggie if you want good lookin games. Also it can support higher antialiasing and can do i think 4x AA in FSAA mode (for all u non-grahpics card people, that means 4x Anti-aliasing in full screen anti-aliasing mode)

BTW, anti-aliasing means getting rid of the jaggies that plague very complex scenes (or even not all that complex ones if u have a crapola graphics card). The higher the AA multiplyer, the smoother it gets. Most 128 MB graphics cards can handle 16xAA i believe.

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by G5orbust


Yeah theres a big difference. The 9000 has vertex and pixel shaders.. a biggie if you want good lookin games. Also it can support higher antialiasing and can do i think 4x AA in FSAA mode (for all u non-grahpics card people, that means 4x Anti-aliasing in full screen anti-aliasing mode)

BTW, anti-aliasing means getting rid of the jaggies that plague very complex scenes (or even not all that complex ones if u have a crapola graphics card). The higher the AA multiplyer, the smoother it gets. Most 128 MB graphics cards can handle 16xAA i believe.


The highest current AA rate is 6x this is held by the ATI 9700. Yes the ATI9000 has AA support and all the other goodies but when they are all turned on the Frame Rates go in the gutter so it's hardly worth having them. I looked it up and the G4MX beat the ATI 9000 in Quake III Arena frame rates it wasn't by much but it beat it and this is with none of the special hardware support on the ATI9000 turned on so turn that stuff on and watch it perform even slower.

[rugby]

I just ordered my dual 867 last week and am eagerly awaiting it. I bto'ed it with a Superdrive and got rid of the modem. I threw in the 17" LCD so I can give my wife my G4/400 and 19" monitor complete.

I plan on taking the $200 MIR and getting a gig of ddr ram. I also plan on selling my Indesign on eBay for some more cash as I have no use for it.

[giovanni]

great move, you will not regret it. Sounds a lot like what I did with my wife, but yours is better of. My wife got my old b&w G3 :)
Anyhow, let us know what you think once you have had some time to play around with it

[SilvorX]

too bad canadians dont get anything free with the powermacs (while in the us u can get indesign free) but im thinking of getting the dual 867...but i was reading a comparison chart of the 867 compared to a couple different duals..and it didnt sound that promising for $2700 CDN :(, but hopefully thats something ram could fix..and maybe a video card upgrade someday...

[heiesuke]

Originally posted by rugby
I just ordered my dual 867 last week and am eagerly awaiting it. I bto'ed it with a Superdrive and got rid of the modem. I threw in the 17" LCD so I can give my wife my G4/400 and 19" monitor complete.


I too have a Dual 867 that i upgraded from a G4 400mhz. The way i see it, it's the best bang for the buck, and when the new G5s come out in the next 2 years this 1 will have paid for it'self.

[rugby]

My district I work in does a computer buy every 2 years from Apple. So, in 2 years I'll get another computer. Mine won't pay for itself, but these video projects I have to do will go a lot faster. Too bad they're just for family.


Originally posted by heiesuke


I too have a Dual 867 that i upgraded from a G4 400mhz. The way i see it, it's the best bang for the buck, and when the new G5s come out in the next 2 years this 1 will have paid for it'self.

[G5orbust]

I would get a dual 867 jsut for the 4 hd spaces, ata 100, ddr and dual 5.25 inch drive bays. I mean, i just got a 933 recently and the dual 867 just makes me drool because if its features and its price. If you can afford it, no matter what any magazine's benchmarks say.... get it if you want a solid upgrade from your current mac or PC (cept any new pmacs such as the quicksilver ones).

[SilvorX]

ya, 4 extra slots for storage is pretty sweet (concidering there was only 2 slots for storage on my peecee (well only 1 on my hp case but we got a diff case) and 4 slots for optical drives (only one slot on the hp case)...my pc compared to a ddr powermac is like comparing molasses to water :P

[G5orbust]

Originally posted by SilvorX
ya, 4 extra slots for storage is pretty sweet (concidering there was only 2 slots for storage on my peecee (well only 1 on my hp case but we got a diff case) and 4 slots for optical drives (only one slot on the hp case)...my pc compared to a ddr powermac is like comparing molasses to water :P

Or tortises to ferraris... ;) :p

[SilvorX]

Originally posted by G5orbust


Or tortises to ferraris... ;) :p
lol true :P

[G5orbust]

haha, i still think u should get a dual 867. i think it would do u right and it has a pretty appealing price... huh?

[SilvorX]

Originally posted by G5orbust
haha, i still think u should get a dual 867. i think it would do u right and it has a pretty appealing price... huh?
ya pretty appealing...but then again 2700 is still ALOT of money for a computer...but if it lasts me 5 years..it will be worth it ;)..as long as it isnt one of those slow as hell computers that are powermac g3s (the all one one kind that are basically a monitor and cd rom/floppy built into em (the 150/something series or whatever with 64 mb of ram n it took years for things to load...but then again it was on os 8.1))

[G5orbust]

Originally posted by SilvorX

ya pretty appealing...but then again 2700 is still ALOT of money for a computer...but if it lasts me 5 years..it will be worth it ;)..as long as it isnt one of those slow as hell computers that are powermac g3s (the all one one kind that are basically a monitor and cd rom/floppy built into em (the 150/something series or whatever with 64 mb of ram n it took years for things to load...but then again it was on os 8.1))


My old english teacher has one of those. Hes got it pretty souped up too. g4 addon card, scsi burner, many hd's, etc.


And ur right... 2700 is a tad steep.. but it will definately last you.. and sicne ur going to college, you can work and pay for a new one with the money u get there if necessary.

[SilvorX]

Originally posted by G5orbust



My old english teacher has one of those. Hes got it pretty souped up too. g4 addon card, scsi burner, many hd's, etc.


And ur right... 2700 is a tad steep.. but it will definately last you.. and sicne ur going to college, you can work and pay for a new one with the money u get there if necessary.
no no no, there were diff kinds of powermac g3's lol, its design was of a monitor (regular cheap 15" monitor) with a cd rom drive/mobo/etc built into it..theyre slowwwww but all the teachers used em up till this year (they got em replaced with classic imacs) but the computer room is still half full of the slow computers (with a few imacs and half power mac g3 "only for school" computers)...

[G5orbust]

Originally posted by SilvorX

no no no, there were diff kinds of powermac g3's lol, its design was of a monitor (regular cheap 15" monitor) with a cd rom drive/mobo/etc built into it..theyre slowwwww but all the teachers used em up till this year (they got em replaced with classic imacs) but the computer room is still half full of the slow computers (with a few imacs and half power mac g3 "only for school" computers)...

o ic, yeah my skool has like 50 of those in this one mac lab of ours...

[SilvorX]

darn, they take a long time to load anything :(

[MarkW19]

Originally posted by Jimong5


I agree, i have had one for a while now (1 month anniversary the 24th!) and it is a steal for what you pay. I BTOed mine up to 3k (17", 9000, and Super) and so far its everything i want it to be and more.

Jimong,

I've got the dual 867 and the ATI 9000 too, with 768 RAM. But, have u noticed this (or is it just me): If you drag a window around in a circle - even with no programs open at all directly after cold startup - (a finder window, browser window, anything), it kind of jumps every second or so, as if it's struggling to keep up? The funny thing is, even though the window moves quicker and smoother than new iMac G4s and even the Dual 867s with std geforce card and factory RAM (I work with these systems for my work), the jumping on my system makes it seem slower and less, responsive. Yeah for games, it's top class, but for overall finder stuff, it jumps at almost everything - even the bouncing dock icons and stuff jump from time to time, as well as doing it quite a lot with the genie effect etc.

Any ideas? ;)

-Mark

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by MarkW19


Jimong,

I've got the dual 867 and the ATI 9000 too, with 768 RAM. But, have u noticed this (or is it just me): If you drag a window around in a circle - even with no programs open at all directly after cold startup - (a finder window, browser window, anything), it kind of jumps every second or so, as if it's struggling to keep up? The funny thing is, even though the window moves quicker and smoother than new iMac G4s and even the Dual 867s with std geforce card and factory RAM (I work with these systems for my work), the jumping on my system makes it seem slower and less, responsive. Yeah for games, it's top class, but for overall finder stuff, it jumps at almost everything - even the bouncing dock icons and stuff jump from time to time, as well as doing it quite a lot with the genie effect etc.

Any ideas? ;)

-Mark

Do you have any haxies installed? Have you started up on the 10.2 disc and repaired permissions?

It shouldn't be doing what you're saying it's doing. My old machine a B/W G3 400 doesn't jump it just moves slow having to load things before you use them.

[MarkW19]

Originally posted by MacBandit


Do you have any haxies installed? Have you started up on the 10.2 disc and repaired permissions?

It shouldn't be doing what you're saying it's doing. My old machine a B/W G3 400 doesn't jump it just moves slow having to load things before you use them.

Just got TinkerTool installed, but it was doing it long before I installed it. Yeah, I've repaired permissions a few times, still not changed. The funny thing is, for about 2 seconds after cold startup, it doesn't do it and windows move perfectly, but after that, it starts doing it for the rest of the session. Maybe it's a background process it doesn't like? But that doesn't tell me why urs isn't doing it and mine is ;) It's not a major thing, just a bit annoying and obviously, I want it right :p

[MacBandit]

Run top in the Terminal or run Process viewer. You could set Process viewer to load at startup and maybe you could use it to see what loads at the moment it start jumping.

My Dual Ghz/DDR doesn't jump but if it did I would ***** myself because this thing is so incredibly fast.

I would try removing tinkertool just for the hell of it and see if things change.

Another thing I just thought of is what programs do you have that start on login?