More PowerMac G5 Details...

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

ThinkSecret adds (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0504g5notes.html) to their previous report (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2005/04/20050414065132.shtml) on upcoming PowerMac G5s.

According to the rumor site, the innards of the PowerMacs will not be dramatically improved. No PCI-X 2.0 or PCI Express slots. No Blue-Ray support, and only single-core PowerPC 970FX processors -- and not the 970MP processors that has been long hoped for.

ThinkSecret places PowerMac, eMac and iMac updates in the next "two weeks".

[FoxyKaye]

I was hoping for a dual-core iMac...

[MattG]

Boo!!!

:(

Oh well, at least my dual 1.8ghz won't seem so obsolete :)

[virividox]

thats a a bit disappointing really :(

i hope the price reflects tha lack of adopting the aforementioned technology

[Chaszmyr]

10 months and that's the best PowerMac update they could come up with? Unbelievably disappointing

[topicolo]

Wow, 10% increase in over 10 months... At this rate we may just hit 4.0 Ghz by this time in 2009 :mad:

[ChoMomma]

Damn... I was hoping to pick up a Low End Dual 2Ghz (dual core) with my Edu discount.. now I don't know. Depends on what changes HAVE been made.

[mingisback]

NoooooOOOOoooOOOOOoooooo!

This really sux. I guess I'm still waiting for my upgrade.

Those Pentium 4 DualCore systems started shipping this week too.

DualCore G5, where are you!!!!

[aswitcher]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

ThinkSecret adds (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0504g5notes.html) to their previous report (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2005/04/20050414065132.shtml) on upcoming PowerMac G5s.

According to the rumor site, the innards of the PowerMacs will not be dramatically improved. No PCI-X 2.0 or PCI Express slots. No Blue-Ray support, and only single-core PowerPC 970FX processors -- and not the 970MP processors that has been long hoped for.

ThinkSecret places PowerMac, eMac and iMac updates in the next "two weeks".


You really gotta hope the Apple disinformation is doing a great job at Apple...because this would be very disappointing...

[sworthy]

This is really disappointing. Even worse, you know Apple wouldn't be doing this update if something could be better soon. For example, if better processors or other gear would be available by WWDC they'd wait until then. This is a bad sign for the near future of the powermac line.

[aliasfox]

Let's just hope the next report tells us that the new Power Macs are coming in hot pink and lime green...

[ddub]

Kind of weak - and if they update now, the chances of major updates at WWDC are slim to none. Great - I guess we wait until Paris for a decent PM update...

[Raid]

No PCI-X 2.0 or PCI Express slots. No Blue-Ray support, and only single-core PowerPC 970FX processors -- and not the 970MP processors that has been long hoped for.

Um so then other than a slight speed bump (and still not at 3GHz for the power Mac) there's nothing else to these updates?

That's not much of an update at all. :(

[ChoMomma]

You really gotta hope the Apple disinformation is doing a great job at Apple...because this would be very disappointing...


For Apple's sake I hope this is their Disinformation People at work messing with ThinkSecret.

[ipacmm]

That’s really disappointing because I was ready to buy one, but now I think I will have to wait for something a little more interesting after holding out this long to buy one.

[wildmac]

Looks like I'm buying monitors this year... :cool:

damn glad I bought my dual G5 when they first came out. Not a lot of progress since then!!!

[csubear]

I guess that the dual 2.7 is real fast but... seems like a real crappy update

[Lacero]

Dejá vu all over again. I feel really sorry for all the upgraders who put off the last PM upgrade hoping for something better.

[ArcaneDevice]

with Alienware and Dell offering dual core intel chips and AMD closely following this is beginning to look like another G4 CPU bottleneck - except system wide.

Apple started to outpace the Windex competition with the first iMac and introducing USB and killing the floppy. Now their hardware is rapidly stagnating again. :(

[Doctor Q]

I expect that this story will get overwhelmingly negative ratings.

If the news is correct, it will get some of the disappointment (of people who expected better systems from Apple's next releases) out of the way before the actual announcement. If the news is incorrect, it will make the eventually announcement BTE (better than expected), giving it a positive spin.

[wrldwzrd89]

This report doesn't surprise me at all, given previous rumors. I'm certain that this update, if it occurs as rumored, will be considered a let-down by at least some of the members of this forum. However, in the end, it matters little to me, because I'm not planning on buying a PowerMac until February 2007, after several more update cycles have passed.

[Balin64]

It's a good thing the consumer side of Apple's business is doing well. The Pro line is sagging. I guess I'll be holding on to my iMac G5 for a while. I was thinking of moving back to a tower, but at these projected specs it's not worth it.

[Dont Hurt Me]

Best software and the weakest hardware whats new? not a thing. Wish they would ship a OSX for Pcs.

[hotwire132002]

Bummer for the folks waiting for new models... but for me--it'll be a while longer till my Dual 2.5's dated :D ;)

[Daveway]

Faith must be kept in dual core! Apple wouldn't sink this low, would they? :(

[Demon Hunter]

Was anyone actually expecting Blu-ray?

Maybe Apple is saving dual-core for Xserve or a more powerful, workstation model... "Xstation"?

[Bibulous]

The powerbook line is also weak, but the current prices reflects that.

Maybe we will get a nice price drop on the powermac line too!

Or a free ipod, everyone still likes those, right?

[Lacero]

Apple should just dump the G5/970Fx or 970MP or whatever, and just go directly to using the Power5s.

[broken_keyboard]

Well... there were the Apple dev tools that had support for 4 processors.
And also OS 10.4.1 supposedly included a new version of DVD Player that supports HD DVD drives.

So there's two pieces of evidence directly from Apple that suggest better things in the works.

[swissmann]

I just hope that Apple's pressure on Think Secret has invalidated its information and the truth is a lot more impressive than the rumors tell. Steve promised 3 GHz G5s by around the end of summer 2004. At this rate we won't even hit that a year late. I was really excited about the IBM G5 deal but my excitement is waning. Please boost my confidence.

[MrMacMan]

STEVE JOBS ANNOUNCES THAT:
"We've committed before the end of next summer" to get the Power Mac G5 to 3GHz. (http://wired-vig.wired.com/news/mac/0,2125,59373,00.html?tw=wn_story_related)

Wooooo!

Too bad this was 2003.
And we still haven't hit it.
And there are no dual core chips.
And the only thing we are looking forward to is the weakest update to Mac Os X yet.

We are really falling back again guys, we need a 3 GHZ chip, and we also need dual cores soon.

Hyperthreading kicked and we responded with silence.
Dual Cores will not no quietly, they actually make a performance difference.

We need new machines now, with better equipment then the rumors are predicting.

[ArcaneDevice]

in the past when the hardware hasn't been that impressive Apple have stuck in dual CPU's to compete with the higher Pentium speed.

Maybe this time around we'll get three or four to compensate! :D

[vouder17]

Sad...... :( well apple has really prooven very little with this new G5..they put it in the Powermac..reached 64bit before everyone else and since then they have gone up by 700MHZ... In two years....

[vouder17]

Apple should just dump the G5/970Fx or 970MP or whatever, and just go directly to using the Power5s.

Are Power5's even released? I think if they were and were attractively priced apple would have already

[G.Kirby]

I have to bite the bullet at the end of this month and get what ever PMac I can for £1,300. Already thinking of selling a kidney ready for WWDC 2006 when Apple can hit back at the PC's........I hope.

[iJaz]

They should really wait until 3GHz is available, but with the current pace, maybe that'll be next year...
I still pray for DualCore, then Apple would be foregiven!
Else, only a MAJOR price drop would justify this pathetic revision.

[CubaTBird]

meh.. g5's fast enough..

[broken_keyboard]

I think IBM needs to hire some people that are as smart as those at AMD and Intel.

PS. Why is MR so slow today? Is Arn playing Doom 3 on the server?

[cosmoed]

Yay, iMac updates in two weeks.

I am a student and there is no way I can fit a PM into my shopping list. It does suck for apple as a whole though because of the competition. Maybe this is the calm before the storm, They may just blow us away in september.

[Lancetx]

Sad...... :( well apple has really prooven very little with this new G5..they put it in the Powermac..reached 64bit before everyone else and since then they have gone up by 700MHZ... In two years....

Has Intel's top chip increased more than 700MHz in the last 2 years? They were either at 3.06GHz or 3.2GHz I believe at the time that the 2GHz G5 was first introduced. So it's not like they're doing any better...

[Xaimous]

I think they should just do a price cut instead of this. a price cut would get those not obbsessed with Apple to buy newly lower priced machines and give us that are obbsessed (and would hold our money on such a depressing upgrade as this any) something to look forward to.

[ziwi]

Ouch - I really hope this is smoke. 10 months for such a small little bump - at least they could have added a PCIe to the board - something. I have some thinking to do - maybe even the GX chip, but essentially a small speed bump from 10 months ago - ouch....:(

[G.Kirby]

I think IBM needs to hire some people that are as smart as those at AMD and Intel.


Didn't I hear somewhere that Mac OSX could run with CPU's other than IBM with some tweeking? If this is true IBM had better stop picking its nose and scraching its arse and GET BACK IN THE GAME!!!!!!

[LeeTom]

Every thread that brought up dual cores I was like:
"Oh no they in'nt!"
and you were all like
"Oh yes they is!"
and now i'm like
"Oh no they in'nt!"

Seriously, the hardware is great already. And when the dual cores come, it'll come with all the other good stuff, and it'll be great.

[nagromme]

But it sure won't be THIS PowerMac :D POWER5/G6 for me!

It seems as though PowerBooks AND PowerMacs may be back in "hang in there" mode for most of this year. "Hang in there" until the REAL, major boost, whatever and whenever it may be. Buy if you need a tower now, wait if you can wait.

We may know tomorrow...

The irony of this if true:

* Apple's consumer appeal is snowballing no matter what happens to the pro lineup

* Apple's pro SOFTWARE to run on that pro hardware just gets more and more impressive!

PS, I thought Blu-Ray drives ALONE cost about as much as a PowerMac so that always sounded too soon to me. (Then again, SuperDrives cost MORE than a PowerMac when Apple added them, I seem to recall.)

[fanbrain]

Think about it... There is so much more now for WWDC. The anticipation is going to kill me.

[weezer160]

... at least, that's what I hope.

This gives me another reason to blow off purchasing a PM until I'm 1) Done with college, 2) Done with OCS at the Air Force... which will both be done in about two years.

This is ridiculous. :mad:

Those Wintel trolls are probably having a laugh at us right now. It kind of makes me embarssed to own a Mac because aren't we supposed to be on the forefront of personal computing technology? Has Apple stuck all its stakes on selling great MP3/MP4 player and chosen to lay its true calling of advanced personal computing to the cheap, generic plastic PC assemblers just to sell a few iPods? Good thing I didn't decide to buy any Apple stock.

[spaceballl]

I think the lack of PCI Express and similar technologies is almost just as dissappointing as the lack of better CPUs. C'mon, Apple... get your head in the game. Everyone is moving to PCI-E.

[Fredstar]

This is pathetic.
I am still hoping there are unreliable sources TS are getting this info from, i understand if the cpu's can't maybe go to 3ghz or dual core.....but then Apple give us the best periphals and extras. Pci-express, dual-layer dvd-r or Blue ray writers, faster 10k hd's e.t.c e.t.c
We have the best software available in all areas, yet hardware that is again outdated

[toontra]

I actually feel like swearing! If this is true, how does it relate to Steve standing on stage in 2003 and bragging about 3Ghz machines in 2004? He may well be 2 years late in his prediction!

I've put off buying for over a year already, and now this pathetic revision!

Apple need to get off concentrating on consumer lines (iPod, Mini) and supply it's loyal pro users with machines that they want and need.

****! There, I've said it!

[joeboy_45101]

I think IBM needs to hire some people that are as smart as those at AMD and Intel.

PS. Why is MR so slow today? Is Arn playing Doom 3 on the server?

I still say Apple should have made some kind of partnership with AMD instead of IBM. Don't get me wrong, the G5 is a powerful processor but I think AMD would have been able to produce faster and more reliable chips. Oh, and to those of you who are going to bite my head off for this and shout and scream that AMD only makes x86 processors, you are ignorant. There is no reason why AMD couldn't make a suitable POWER processor, IBM is really a bad partner on this since Apple represents such a small slice of business to them. But, AMD is still the underdog and I believe that being the underdog would propel them to make a superb processor.

[DaveP]

Though if there was a large price drop that could definitely put a positive spin on things.

[Lancetx]

<Rant on> With all of this crying over this "pathetic" update, I must say that I still have yet to meet a true graphics or video professional that has difficulty getting their real work done on what Apple offers hardware wise today. Bragging rights over who's "GHz" is bigger aside, what Apple offers today is more than powerful enough to get real world professional work done no matter what any of the whiners may say or think... :rolleyes: <Rant off>

[wymer100]

I guess this explains why Apple is only going to breakdown their quarterly sales numbers in terms of desktop and laptop. They had to know that their powermac numbers were going to be pathetic after this next revision. I guess we'll just have to see what happens. TS is one of the better sites for predicting hardware revisions, but they have been wrong in the past. Here's to keeping our fingers crossed.

[macphisto]

In fact, if ts is right, nothing is new. Apple is just dropped the 2.5 (to keep from shortages), rebranded it as the 2.7, when it is actually a 2.5 overclocked.

[BRLawyer]

I actually feel like swearing! If this is true, how does it relate to Steve standing on stage in 2003 and bragging about 3Ghz machines in 2004? He may well be 2 years late in his prediction!

I've put off buying for over a year already, and now this pathetic revision!

Apple need to get off concentrating on consumer lines (iPod, Mini) and supply it's loyal pro users with machines that they want and need.

****! There, I've said it!

Ditto. If that's the truth, Apple stocks will go down the drain...and if IBM isn't able to deliver, let's just kick the bucket and join the likes of Intel or AMD...utterly (and disappointingly) amazing...

I just hope that it's Apple Disinformation Dept. working well again...I sure hope so...anything else is an unjustifiable crap.

[Bear]

Apple should just dump the G5/970Fx or 970MP or whatever, and just go directly to using the Power5s.Two issues with this, both major - the first is the Power5 is an expensive chip and the second is the Power series has no Altivec (or equiv) - that would break a lot of software optimized for G4/G5 w/Altivec.

[Bear]

In fact, if ts is right, nothing is new. Apple is just dropped the 2.5 (to keep from shortages), rebranded it as the 2.7, when it is actually a 2.5 overclocked.Apple does not sell overclocked processors. If Apple is selling a processor at X speed, that means the chip manufacturer has tested the chip to that speed.

[BRLawyer]

Oh, and by the way...APPLE, if ya can't get a G5 right, just pick up some Power5s, goddamn!! Let's make a kickass machine again!! Wake up!

Where are snail ads again??

[drewyboy]

now i have to make one of the biggest decisions of my life.... the updated..if u can call it that powermac... or the powerbook? does anyone know anything more or heard anything about how the freescale dual g4 project is going? also, would the current powerbook handle final cut express? i need something by this fall for school, i've had to do with a piece e-machines this semester but my parents are taking it back home after this. sooo... any advice on which one to get? i'm personally starting to lean into the powerbook unless the powermac is decently upgraded. whichever one i go with.. i need it to last me about 3-4 years.

[vouder17]

Has Intel's top chip increased more than 700MHz in the last 2 years? They were either at 3.06GHz or 3.2GHz I believe at the time that the 2GHz G5 was first introduced. So it's not like they're doing any better...

true but Intel is releasing Dual core this month..apple isnt. Apple said taht they would have 3Ghz by last year..and now we are reaching...2.7Ghz...Meh

[auxplage]

I wonder if the 2.3ghz model is going to be liquid cooled. I do not think that it will.

[Kirkmedia]

It's a bitter pill to swallow, but Apple will obviuosly have nothing great
to wow pro users in 2005. Sure they have great software, but there's nothing
under the hood.

[deanbo]

This is pathetic.
I am still hoping there are unreliable sources TS are getting this info from, i understand if the cpu's can't maybe go to 3ghz or dual core.....but then Apple give us the best periphals and extras. Pci-express, dual-layer dvd-r or Blue ray writers, faster 10k hd's e.t.c e.t.c
We have the best software available in all areas, yet hardware that is again outdated

I agree. If this is true, it is really pathetic. Why even bother updating?

[MrMacMan]

I think IBM needs to hire some people that are as smart as those at AMD and Intel.

PS. Why is MR so slow today? Is Arn playing Doom 3 on the server?
IBM has people that smart.

Problem is their manufacturing plant has been riddled with problems.

--and yeah MR is reallly slow today--

meh.. g5's fast enough..
Not really.
You see what Doom requires?
I would like to see a reason why only the fastest mac available on the market is able to play it.
And even then it lags like crazy.

For gaming, video editing, and all the markets apple wants to become apart of and are still in, we need better increases in speed.

Has Intel's top chip increased more than 700MHz in the last 2 years? They were either at 3.06GHz or 3.2GHz I believe at the time that the 2GHz G5 was first introduced. So it's not like they're doing any better...
Intel Pentium 4 3.0Ghz (800Mhz FSB) was announced on April 14th
3.46 is available now. 3.7 GHZ was available in march (scattered and slow seepage into market)
so... yeah they increased 700 MHZ.
And there models are out now.
And have Hyper-threading.
And have more cache then before.
So don't try to tell members that intel has been slower the apple in chip releases.

Seriously, the hardware is great already. And when the dual cores come, it'll come with all the other good stuff, and it'll be great.
No doubt.








So when are they coming?
Obviously not summer 05'
Not when the AMD and Intel chips are coming.


<Rant on> With all of this crying over this "pathetic" update, I must say that I still have yet to meet a true graphics or video professional that has difficulty getting their real work done on what Apple offers hardware wise today. Bragging rights over who's "GHz" is bigger aside, what Apple offers today is more than powerful enough to get real world professional work done no matter what any of the whiners may say or think... :rolleyes: <Rant off>
Alright.

I work in a television studio.
We have a Mac Editing Lab.
Totally G5's, flat screens, the works.

We are not keeping pace with other comparable studios out there.
When the studio edits a video and wants to release it we need to encode, burn and watch.
If we are not keeping pace, we must be getting slower.
We need the editing process to be as fast as it is and we need encoding, burning and all other steps to increase, this i stress is encoding.

In a TV studio you are working with several types of digital media, it is necessary to have a fast transfer rate from the time you get the film to the time you have a product.

I can tell you if apple doesn't get something in the next year, we will have fallen behind other studios, its that simple.

[BornAgainMac]

At this rate, my Revision A will never be obsolete. It must really suck to be waiting for a major update. It looks like 2006 before that happens.

[Rocksaurus]

BOOOOO. At least the stock can't go down any further though, right? Ha.

[LGRW3919]

this has to be wrong! apple might as well throw away the whole pro line if this is what will be happening- 10% increase in 10 monthes. apple would slip so far behind if the "updated" powermacs to be announced are withough pci-e, but more importantly dual core processors. there's evidence pointing to a bigger, better, upgrade (just look aorund on the forums) and i think the rumor mills are getting fed a lot of crap. apple won't let this update slip away.

[immac]

Gotta be part of the Thinksecret settlement. There's no way it could be this lame of an update. Jobs likes making quick imoney but he DOES have an ego.
what about this 32bit floating point color support in Motion, 4 instance- that should require some more horsepower I would think-not to mention the video card . How can they not give us PCIe and at least ONE multi dual core machine?
Keep the BluRay.

[SpaceMagic]

I smell a rat. I mean, Apple don't really like ThinkSecret at the moment, so it wouldn't surprise me if they are leaking false information. This way, we'll all be expecting 2.7ghz but really there'll be dual core 3ghzs :p It's not like Apple to be behind when it comes to new technology.. and with AMD and Intel bringing out dual cores this last week.. it's apple's turn.

[daveL]

I still say Apple should have made some kind of partnership with AMD instead of IBM. Don't get me wrong, the G5 is a powerful processor but I think AMD would have been able to produce faster and more reliable chips. Oh, and to those of you who are going to bite my head off for this and shout and scream that AMD only makes x86 processors, you are ignorant. There is no reason why AMD couldn't make a suitable POWER processor, IBM is really a bad partner on this since Apple represents such a small slice of business to them. But, AMD is still the underdog and I believe that being the underdog would propel them to make a superb processor.
IBM and AMD have an active technology partnership, and AMD makes use of IBM's Fishkill fab, as does Nvidia.

[vouder17]

this has to be wrong! apple might as well throw away the whole pro line if this is what will be happening- 10% increase in 10 monthes. apple would slip so far behind if the "updated" powermacs to be announced are withough pci-e, but more importantly dual core processors. there's evidence pointing to a bigger, better, upgrade (just look aorund on the forums) and i think the rumor mills are getting fed a lot of crap. apple won't let this update slip away.

Well lets hope that this is wrong..but TS is pretty good. They get 9/10 rumors correct if not 10/10. They are rarely wrong...meh. Most of the time i would be happy about that but in this case...

[toontra]

Forgive me if this has been suggested before, but....

How about if this was part of an out-of-court settlement between Apple and Think Secret. TS agree to leak false specs fed them by Apple - when the (far better) actual revisions are announced Apple look great and TS lose all credibility.

Let's hope!


OK beaten to it again!!

[kainjow]

Woerst than no major CPU update is lack of PCIe , c'mon applel even the PC notebooks have that now , AMD has Radeon Xpress 200M in thier new Turion 64 / Sempron notebooks. Intel has 915 based PCIe in thier Sonoma chipset for Pentium M's. Apple can't even get this stuff into thier 2yr old desktops.

eat my Dualcore dust losers.......MUWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Wow I'm sure we're all jealous that you might have access to a fast PC that runs Windows... oh no!

I bet you can play games faster now! Wow! I'm even more jealous!

Lets see.... Intel/AMD are just now getting into the multi-core business while Macs have had dual processors on their desktop line for how long?? Yes since the G4!

Add Tiger to this DP PM 2.7Ghz, add a gig of ram.... nothing to be ashamed of at all... and it's got 256MB vram... this computer will be extremely fast, no doubt about that.

While 200Mhz jump isn't that great, the PM still run powerful enough.

[nagromme]

It will be an interesting glimpse into the rumor community's psyche if these really ARE the PowerMacs that get released... and then the announcement gets mainly Positive ratings anyway, because of a 2-button mouse ;)

(And yes, of course the OS matters more than the MHz.)

[vtprinz]

Everyone keeps saying that this update won't be so bad as long as they drop the prices, but what's the likelihood that that will actually happen??

Is this feasible? :

Dual 2.0 --> $1499
Dual 2.3 --> $1999
Dual 2.7 --> $2499

if so than it's not so bad on the low end (though it now lacks the true high end). Maybe then I could buy the dual 2.3 for the same price as the current dual 1.8? And be able to actually get a non-crippled machine?


Am I dreaming?

[paulypants]

T-E-R-R-I-B-L-E

Hey let's make software thats so powerful it needs a super high end system to run on, and then let's release new 'high' end systems that can barely run the new software! What a joke! If this is the case than Apple had better go back to updating the Powermacs every 6-8 months instead of once a year. That or release a Pro line with modern day specs. I thought Apple was considered to be "cutting edge" at some point, definitely NOT when it comes to CPUs for sure...

[narco]

Boo!!!

:(

Oh well, at least my dual 1.8ghz won't seem so obsolete :)

Yeah, I'm saying the same thing about my dual 2.0 G5. By the way, nice Buster avatar.

Fishes,
narco.

[ksz]

Think about it... There is so much more now for WWDC. The anticipation is going to kill me.
Agreed. If the new PowerMacs are released, let's say, the first week of May and have a 6-month shelf life, then we will not see dual core PMs shipping until October.

After all this time, a simple speed bump on the current PowerMacs is hugely underwhelming to say the least.

[lewchenko]

OMG !

remember when the G4 was pretty much stuck at 533Mhz ... Deja Vu! Only its worse now because the rest of the industry is moving on. The power mac line is a joke these days.

My pet hate is the default GPU. Only Apple could get away with selling ANCIENT and dirt cheap graphics cards in a $2500 machine. Christ, that is just unforgiveable. And all those people who have been saying "9600 is just what Ive been waiting for" -> you people are insane. Why are you settling for such old technology in apple's top line ??????

Even my girlfriends 'old' PC has a 9800 PRO in it. Oh - and a 3Ghz P4 which she has had for AGES!

As for the updates - a 200Mhz bump at the top is nothing more than a slap to anyone paying top $$ for their next mac.

Ive been wanting to buy a PowerMac for a long time, but quite frankly they are so overpriced now its not even funny.

Remember the days of the SUPER COMPUTER adverts, and the time when Apple boasted they were faster than the latest pentium etc... GONE.

If this update happens, then welcome to the dark ages again APPLE, but there will always be some mugs out there who will say "whoa - a $100 price drop, and better features... what a bargain". I wont be one of them. At the time of writing this, 18 people had voted this story a POSITIVE development. My point proven - 18 Mugs out there already!

I think Apple should do the decent thing and stop calling them Power Macs. How about mMac (Mid range Mac), nwuMac (no worthy update Mac).

Shame on Apple.

[SiliconAddict]

Seriously, the hardware is great already. And when the dual cores come, it'll come with all the other good stuff, and it'll be great.


The Hardware IS NOT great already. The hardware was fantastic the year before last. The hardware was great last year. The hardware is just OK this year. By next year we are going to be getting into the G4 PowerMac range of ‘It works”. Anyone who says otherwise is drinking a bit too much of the kool aid.

*sighs*

Once again Apple about to demonstrate that they are incapable of keeping their hardware up to date with the industry. They let one section of their product line hang on the vine just long enough that its just the side of spoiled rotten and then at the last nanosecond they update just in time to avoid complete disaster, and then repeats the cycle all over again. Quite frankly this kind of behavior isn’t something I’d expect from a world class company. Its something I’d expect from some little no named Taiwanese company who has bad management and can’t find the funds to maintain their product line. In short what the (*@@# 9^!! Is going on at Apple?!?

[GFLPraxis]

CALM DOWN PEOPLE!

Okay, let's go through this one setp at a time.


According to the rumor site, the innards of the PowerMacs will not be dramatically improved. No PCI-X 2.0 or PCI Express slots.

Expected, Intel owns PCI Express.

No Blue-Ray support,

Assuming they mean Blu-ray...
Duh. It's not coming out until 2006.

and only single-core PowerPC 970FX processors -- and not the 970MP processors that has been long hoped for.

ThinkSecret places PowerMac, eMac and iMac updates in the next "two weeks".

Not that big a deal, the difference between dual processors and dual cores is minimal, right?

Here's my suspicion. Why would Stevie release PowerMacs in two weeks? What is he saving for WWDC? Traditionally, Apple always releases new PowerMac G5's in June, right?

My theory:
We're getting the current lineup updated in two weeks. In JUNE, they will release a $3500...dual processor dual core PowerMac G5. The 970MP's should be ready by June, right?

[mkwilson68]

This would be hard to believe, had Apple not let us down so many times before. This would be a disastrous upgrade for them, let's be frank. Their numbers for Pro machine sales were terrible last quarter and this would drive them down even further.

The technologies are out there to bring the PM line up to a competitive standard, and if IBM's processors are proving the problem then it looks like (once again) Apple may have backed the wrong horse. Let's hope not

Right now it feels like 95% of Apple's hardware effort is on the consumer and 5% on Pro customers. We pay the most and get the least attention - Apple, once again, is trying our patience and pushing its luck. Can they really keep doing this?

[4God]

Ya know, maybe I just don't get it. I find it very difficult to believe that Apple wouldn't release PowerMac updates at WWDC. I'd bet that they only have a minor speed bump, but even with that being said the PCIe and dual core setup would be awesome! :)

[avus]

Wake me up WHEN APPLE ACTUALLY MAKES AN ANNOUNCEMENT, please?

I am amazed at people's ability to get this emotional on a rumor.

Scary, come to think of it.

[h'biki]

<Rant on> With all of this crying over this "pathetic" update, I must say that I still have yet to meet a true graphics or video professional that has difficulty getting their real work done on what Apple offers hardware wise today.

You've obviously never worked (or met anyone that works) with 2K film-scans. They push current hardware to the limits and as the price of 4K film-scanning drops, its going to -really- need the speed to handle it.

S

[Object-X]

They are just passing time for the release of the cell chip. It's coming. It's going to be big. And it's going to be in everything. Remember Sony's Cell Processor-Based Workstation (http://biz.yahoo.com/iw/041129/076754.html) That's what is coming next! You'll see. They will annonce them at the Developers conference along with a revamped version of WebObjects for developing applications for the Cell.

[BRLawyer]

The main problem is that Apple doesn't get the fact that it does not need to convince us, Macusers...it has to convince THE MARKET! And the market only accepts the cutting-edge...come on, Apple!

Can't ya remember the times when PCs were snails, and Macs were the most POWERFUL desktops?? IIfx, Quadra 900, PowerTower 225 anyone??

And it's not about processors, it's about leading architecture, GPU, the whole enchilada!

WAKE UP APPLE!

[SiliconAddict]

the PM still run powerful enough.

Its interesting to watch history and the same excuses repeat themselves. :rolleyes: The denial is strong in this one.

[drewyboy]

This would be hard to believe, had Apple not let us down so many times before. This would be a disastrous upgrade for them, let's be frank. Their numbers for Pro machine sales were terrible last quarter and this would drive them down even further.

The technologies are out there to bring the PM line up to a competitive standard, and if IBM's processors are proving the problem then it looks like (once again) Apple may have backed the wrong horse. Let's hope not

Right now it feels like 95% of Apple's hardware effort is on the consumer and 5% on Pro customers. We pay the most and get the least attention - Apple, once again, is trying our patience and pushing its luck. Can they really keep doing this?

Apple is *****'n piss'n on you pro users. How in the world can they do that, i'm assuming most recording/editing businesses are going to be going through their new computer cycle pretty soon due to the last update for their studios were when the g5's were introduced. now think about it, if the powermac isn't a ton better then what they bought 2 years ago.. why woudl they buy pretty much the same product? so assuming millions/billions of dollars of future pmac purchases are in the balance of if apple is going to get a top of the line computer out by the end of the summer, apple can kiss those sales good bye to amd and intel w/ their new duals. Apple better be smarter than this and i pray that if this is all we get, jobs may have to drop ibm.

[4God]

Just in case anybody was wondering about the integrity and history of IBM versus Intel/AMD:

About IBM

IBM is the world's largest information technology company, with 80 years of leadership in helping businesses innovate. IBM also is a recognized innovator in the semiconductor industry, having been first with advances like more power-efficient copper wiring in place of aluminum and faster SOI and silicon germanium transistors. These and other innovations have contributed to IBM's standing as the number one U.S. patent holder for 11 consecutive years. More information about IBM semiconductors can be found at: http://www.ibm.com/chips.




O.K.? :D

[webobject]

We're getting the current lineup updated in two weeks. In JUNE, they will release a $3500...dual processor dual core PowerMac G5. The 970MP's should be ready by June, right?

If I was CEO of a company that released an update to a product - and then released an update to an updated product a month later, I would expect my ass to be hauled to the nearest field and be shot - quite frankly :)
webobject

[ravenvii]

Expected, Intel owns PCI Express.

Intel also owns AGP. So what's your point?

[drewyboy]

then why is IBM having such a problem with providing for apple?

[Maxiseller]

You know, I think everyone has very vaild points in this, what is now turning out to be a debate between "real" mac fans, and "realistic" fans! A couple of points :

1) We all know, Windows is ridiculously bad. Have you tried using it? Frankly it doesn't matter whether it's a Dual core Pentium 7 or a Celeron - it's the code, the malware, the incompatible drivers, the mish-mash software etc...that is what makes the platform bad.

2) The megahertz myth apparently has significance here. How many Pentium's are up to 1.25 Ghz FSB?

3) My emac G4 has plenty of power to run Logic Pro 7 and various software synths and samplers at once. True, a little bouncing goes on here and there, but it's a rock. Try doing that on a 1.25 Ghz Celeron Processor using somthing similar. A Joke!

4) Apple is a MUCH smaller organization than Intel or the like. Now, I know that IBM makes the processors before people come and poke me, however look at what Apple are managing to throw out from only somthing like 10,000-20,000 employees. All the software, hardware, display, Airport, music store (Which as I always say IS truly revolutionary. You try and bargain ANYTHING with recoord companies and see what response you get)

The fact is, it shouldn't matter whether our G5's come with 2.5 or even 3.5 GHz processors. Its not the point. The fact is that we are developing - moving on. I chose the mac platform knowing I was paying double and getting half the speed but I did it because it is recognized as the best in the business where I work. From my perspective, 18 months ago I brought my Ti Powerbook running at 867Mhz. Now we're up to around 2.7 (rumored) Ghz. That to me, is an improvement - and when I look to upgrade, I know I have a plausable, economically viable, upgrade route to follow.

[ManchesterTrix]

Expected, Intel owns PCI Express.

They also own USB and Macs use that. Fact is, Apple is going to have to switch to PCIe sooner or later.

[GFLPraxis]

Intel also owns AGP. So what's your point?

Didn't actually realize that. However, I have one question; How long did it take Apple to adopt AGP?

As it is now, Intel boards got PCIe first, then AMD, Apple could be next. PCIe is still fairly rare though even in the PC world.

Further, it would take a bit of work- NVidia and ATi don't make ONE Mac-compatible PCIe card (obviously), so Apple would have to take steps to make them start producing cards before they add the slot.

[agreenster]

WOO HOO!

3GHZ by SUMMER 2004!!!!

er...

2005

er, nope.... 2006 maybe?

[GFLPraxis]

They are just passing time for the release of the cell chip. It's coming. It's going to be big. And it's going to be in everything. Remember Sony's Cell Processor-Based Workstation (http://biz.yahoo.com/iw/041129/076754.html) That's what is coming next! You'll see. They will annonce them at the Developers conference along with a revamped version of WebObjects for developing applications for the Cell.


Slow down buddy.

The Cell is extremely good at floating point but terrible at integer calculations- and I mean absolutely terrible in comparison to the floating point scores. And it's 3-4 times more expensive than a normal processor. So Cell is really hit or miss. It's awesome for a video editting machine and good for a gaming machine but sucks for a normal user.

Don't get too excited.

[denm316]

Let's just hope the next report tells us that the new Power Macs are coming in hot pink and lime green...


The all new PowerMac mini, in four great colors.

[FlyNolJ]

Let's just hope the next report tells us that the new Power Macs are coming in hot pink and lime green...

Oh yeah, that would be classy.

Everyone chill! I agree with the people who have said Apple is feeding rumor sites s***. If this report turns out to be true, Apple is screwed. With that said, I think we all need to expect Dual Dual-core 3.5 Ghz in a ProMac with 2MB L2 per each core, hyperthreading, blu-ray, pci-express, base memory of 1 gig, and another drive that burns dvds at 32X. Prices? $999. www.apple.com/store :eek:

[Blue Moon]

... at least, that's what I hope.

This gives me another reason to blow off purchasing a PM until I'm 1) Done with college, 2) Done with OCS at the Air Force... which will both be done in about two years.

This is ridiculous. :mad:

Those Wintel trolls are probably having a laugh at us right now. It kind of makes me embarssed to own a Mac because aren't we supposed to be on the forefront of personal computing technology? Has Apple stuck all its stakes on selling great MP3/MP4 player and chosen to lay its true calling of advanced personal computing to the cheap, generic plastic PC assemblers just to sell a few iPods? Good thing I didn't decide to buy any Apple stock.

Yeah, good thing you didn't get in on an investment that has jumped over 200% in the last year. You narrowlly avoided disaster there buddy.

[GFLPraxis]

If I was CEO of a company that released an update to a product - and then released an update to an updated product a month later, I would expect my ass to be hauled to the nearest field and be shot - quite frankly :)
webobject

Not an update a month later.


Release an update, and then release a fourth model a month later.

I'm saying update the $1500, $2000, $2500, and $3000 model now, and then when it is physically possible (when dual cores come out a month later) introduce a $3500 and maybe a $4000 model, NOT update the existing ones.

[ManchesterTrix]

Didn't actually realize that. However, I have one question; How long did it take Apple to adopt AGP?

I don't have the answer to that one, but someone else will.

As it is now, Intel boards got PCIe first, then AMD, Apple could be next. PCIe is still fairly rare though even in the PC world.

Not really, most currently shipping PCs have PCIe.

Further, it would take a bit of work- NVidia and ATi don't make ONE Mac-compatible PCIe card (obviously), so Apple would have to take steps to make them start producing cards before they add the slot.

It wouldn't really take a bit of work. nvidia and ATI are on the verge of not making AGP cards anymore and to make a PCIe Apple card just requires new firmware as they're already making PCIe cards for PCs. In the grand scheme of things it'd probably be easier to get ATI and Nvidia to support a PCIe Mac card than an AGP card.

[PeterQVenkman]

If they drop them a couple of hundred bucks vs the previous models and still have dual-layer dvd±RW burners, I will be plenty happy. I need power but I am not rich. Hook me up!

I will gladly pay 2200 -2300 for the midrange. Any more is criminal. It leaves more money for RAM and wireless stuff for me. BOO YA!

Think if they revealed a multi-button mouse! Deflect some of that anger...

[rockthecasbah]

Was anyone actually expecting Blu-ray?
No, but I was expecting PCI Express and Dual-Core for the Power Mac. Yet again, we must remember this is A RUMOR and not fact. Fingers are crossed the Apple was screwing with Think Secret :) .

[GFLPraxis]

No, but I was expecting PCI Express and Dual-Core for the Power Mac. Yet again, we must remember this is A RUMOR and not fact. Fingers are crossed the Apple was screwing with Think Secret :) .

Very good point, if Apple got TS to reveal their sources in court they could be feeding false info...

[Josh396]

My guess is there has to be an update pretty quickly after this. For example, WWDC. I know it's not smart for a company to update a product and then decide to update it a month and a half later but this almost has to be the case this time. If I remember correctly the Keynote is 2 hours long, so what else could Steve possibly talk about for that time? No new iMacs, eMacs, Mac mini's or iBooks. Possibly iPods but that's worth what, 20 minutes? We know Tiger will be out and shipped by then for at least a month so they won't spend much time on that. That gives a bare minimum of an hour left. Maybe talk of a future OS but I doubt that. In that time they could announce both Dual Core Powerbooks and Dual Core PowerMacs. Even a G5 powerbook could be announced. Even if they were announced then, they may take a few months to ship, which wouldn't be the first time. This would give the new revisions at least 6 month shelf life, and then the Dual Cores would ship. If this was the case Apple would only make a limited number of this new PowerMacs knowing the Dual Core announcement would slow down the current PowerMac sales. I'm not saying this is going to happen but it is possible. I sure hope so.

[FlyNolJ]

Yeah, good thing you didn't get in on an investment that has jumped over 200% in the last year. You narrowlly avoided disaster there buddy.

I agree with Green Moon, I have enough money in Apple stock from '01 to buy PowerMac revisions 3 years in a row. Why am I upset? Ehh...

[Val-kyrie]

BOOOOO. At least the stock can't go down any further though, right? Ha.

Perhaps Steve knew way in advance there would be no major update and that's why Apple split its stock when the price was so high--to avoid a catastrophic drop.

[neoelectronaut]

Bummer. Seems that the iBook updates will never get here. I'm tempted to get one now, but the week I'll do it they'll release the updates...besides, the Buyer's Guide says "Don't Buy--Updates Soon"

[crpchristian]

OK ok ok... First of all, this is information coming from a site that is tangled in a lawsuit with apple, are we really going to get are blood pressure worked up over this? There are so many rumors running around about the specifics of all of this I feel its a bit pointless to believe anything until its announced for this one (what happend to 'tiger only FCP5?)

That said... it is pretty annoying being in this position, however. The last updates weren't as painful to wait for since we were told what was coming (even though it was less than promised :p ) Now, we have NO information from apple of what to expect and i'm sitting here, uber video work coming up, i practically HAVE to update, we know updates are due so i can't buy now and feel like an arse when the same model 1000bucks cheaper (or better for the same price) shows up.

I can appreciate apples secrecy policy (for an innovatie company, i think it matters) but SOME vague information would be helpful.

I hope they update is huge but i'll buy whatever they are. I can't afford to wait another 9-12 months. Come on apple.. YOU CAN DO IT

[plastique45]

6 moths after the G5 came out in 2003, it became clear that something was wrong when the usual half a year speed bump never came. Then in June 2004, instead of delivering the 3GHz PPC970 it had promised Apple, IBM delivered 2.2Ghz chips which Apple had to overclock at 2.5 with major water cooling. 6 months later, no speed bump. Ibm failed to deliver even these chips in enough quantity for Apple to sell enough high end dual 2.0 Ghz PowerMacs, then they had to push the iMac G5's release by 6 months again because IBM could get enough chips out (and for the first time that I can remember, Apple had to announce that a new iMac was coming out but that unfortunately they currently had none to sell).

And now.... this. It is clear that IBM is a second Motorola. In G5 intro video, the IBM spokesperson mentions that IBM is already hard at work on the next generation of PPC chips (2003). Was that the Power5 derivative (nicknamed PPC 980 by many)? Who knows, that seems to be as dead as the Motorola 2GHz G5 of 2001.

I think the PowerPC market is too small for any company to really rival Intel and AMD. Either Macs incorporate x86 chips and they migrate all software and OS and people have to rebuy everything (not very good), Macs are discontinued and OS X released for PC BEFORE Longhorn (Microsoft could be surprised as to how much market it could lose), or Apple buys freescale and invest much $$$ into an all new kind of processor. One that is easy to scale.

[Hemingray]

I've got lots of nasty things I'd like to say about the PowerMacs right now, but then I remembered... this is JUST A RUMOR. Once Apple dares to put this on their web site, THEN it'll all come down. Until then... sit back, relax, and forget about ThinkSecret's reliability.

...and pray.

[vouder17]

Bummer. Seems that the iBook updates will never get here. I'm tempted to get one now, but the week I'll do it they'll release the updates...besides, the Buyer's Guide says "Don't Buy--Updates Soon"

yeah i am trying to get my aunt to switch..but i keep on telling her that all she needs to do is wait until the end of april cos then she can get better RAM, Tiger and a better iBook...but time is running out, she needs it before the end of april. Well it is Apples loss not mine.

[JesterJJZ]

Oh well. At least I feel better about getting my Dual 2.5ghz last summer. It won't be obsolete yet. :D

[ArcaneDevice]

Lets see.... Intel/AMD are just now getting into the multi-core business while Macs have had dual processors on their desktop line for how long?? Yes since the G4!

Add Tiger to this DP PM 2.7Ghz, add a gig of ram.... nothing to be ashamed of at all... and it's got 256MB vram... this computer will be extremely fast, no doubt about that.

While 200Mhz jump isn't that great, the PM still run powerful enough.

Everyone knows the introduction of dual CPUs was Apple's way to keep the G4 looking competitive when it hit the speed barrier.

This isn't purely a CPU speed issue either. It's a PR issue. Technology advances rapidly and right now Apple isn't in step with it. The longer they hold off introducing stuff like PCI-e and DDR2 the worse it looks when stacked up against the competition. How can they favourably compare themselves to BMW with situations like this? BMW don't use the parts from last years models in their 7 series when the competitors are introducing new stuff.

[paulypants]

6 moths after the G5 came out in 2003, it became clear that something was wrong when the usual half a year speed bump never came. Then in June 2004, instead of delivering the 3GHz PPC970 it had promised Apple, IBM delivered 2.2Ghz chips which Apple had to overclock at 2.5 with major water cooling. 6 months later, no speed bump. Ibm failed to deliver even these chips in enough quantity for Apple to sell enough high end dual 2.0 Ghz PowerMacs, then they had to push the iMac G5's release by 6 months again because IBM could get enough chips out (and for the first time that I can remember, Apple had to announce that a new iMac was coming out but that unfortunately they currently had none to sell).

And now.... this. It is clear that IBM is a second Motorola. In G5 intro video, the IBM spokesperson mentions that IBM is already hard at work on the next generation of PPC chips (2003). Was that the Power5 derivative (nicknamed PPC 980 by many)? Who knows, that seems to be as dead as the Motorola 2GHz G5 of 2001.

I think the PowerPC market is too small for any company to really rival Intel and AMD. Either Macs incorporate x86 chips and they migrate all software and OS and people have to rebuy everything (not very good), Macs are discontinued and OS X released for PC BEFORE Longhorn (Microsoft could be surprised as to how much market it could lose), or Apple buys freescale and invest much $$$ into an all new kind of processor. One that is easy to scale.

LOL uuuummm no. The 2.5 is not overclocked, this has been re-hashed countless times and is a non-issue.

[jrv3034]

Wow, I bought my Dual 2GHz in 2003, and it'll STILL be in the lineup of Power Macs two years later! Best investment I've made yet.

Bummer for people in the market for a PM, though. Apple must really be cursing IBM right about now...

[finchna]

and since then they have gone up by 700MHZ... In two years....

Actually, if the rumors are correct, 1400MHz--remember they're dual--dual does make a difference on apps that I use.

[chevyorange]

At this rate, my Revision A will never be obsolete. It must really suck to be waiting for a major update. It looks like 2006 before that happens.

I agree. I can't believe that my Rev A Virginia Tech Dual 2.0 is still nearly state of the art. On one hand, I feel like my value is even added but on the other hand, boy was I rooting for Apple to have a killer machine to go with Tiger (not like my Dual 2.0 won't be smashing).

I see maybe a chance to buy some Apple stock in a few weeks at a half way decent price for the first time in awhile!

Adam

[MacSA]

No, but I was expecting PCI Express and Dual-Core for the Power Mac. Yet again, we must remember this is A RUMOR and not fact. Fingers are crossed the Apple was screwing with Think Secret :) .

I'd be astonished if ThinkSecret got the specs TOTALLY wrong........ I think we're all trying to convince ourselves that Apple are screwing around with the rumour sites beacuse we don't want to believe it might be true - it's a state of denial lol :p

........However, they appear to contradict one statement in this latest rumour:

Orignial rumour: "Sources were unable to confirm at this time whether the systems will sport the dual-core PowerPC 970MP processor or the single-core PowerPC 970GX, although unconfirmed notes point to the PowerPC 970MP. "

Latest rumour: "and currently indications suggest that the towers will continue to use the single-core PowerPC 970FX processor."

[BenRoethig]

then why is IBM having such a problem with providing for apple?

Probably using all its resources on the next generation of game console chips. If this is true, Apple really needs to rethink if the PowerPCs are still viable for consumer computers.

[Zigster]

Unless Apple has an uber-ace up it's sleeve that's been sitting in a deep tank that ThinkSecret cannot access, these are p*ss poor updates to a machine that is supposed to be the companies best.

HD+ video editing puts a severe load on a powermac, and rendering times are falling way below that of PC's. We're talking thousands more $$$ to edit big time stuff on a mac.

Too bad, because their softare is ace.

That high-pitched shrill sound you hear is Steve screaming into the IBM support line.

[Bubbasteve]

My guess is there has to be an update pretty quickly after this. For example, WWDC. I know it's not smart for a company to update a product and then decide to update it a month and a half later but this almost has to be the case this time. If I remember correctly the Keynote is 2 hours long, so what else could Steve possibly talk about for that time? No new iMacs, eMacs, Mac mini's or iBooks. Possibly iPods but that's worth what, 20 minutes? We know Tiger will be out and shipped by then for at least a month so they won't spend much time on that. That gives a bare minimum of an hour left. Maybe talk of a future OS but I doubt that. In that time they could announce both Dual Core Powerbooks and Dual Core PowerMacs. Even a G5 powerbook could be announced. Even if they were announced then, they may take a few months to ship, which wouldn't be the first time. This would give the new revisions at least 6 month shelf life, and then the Dual Cores would ship. If this was the case Apple would only make a limited number of this new PowerMacs knowing the Dual Core announcement would slow down the current PowerMac sales. I'm not saying this is going to happen but it is possible. I sure hope so.

That's an excellent point...iPod video perhaps or a new lineup of iPods (again)? iPhone? the iHome (or whatever they will call it)? I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
:rolleyes:

[paulypants]

My guess is there has to be an update pretty quickly after this. For example, WWDC. I know it's not smart for a company to update a product and then decide to update it a month and a half later but this almost has to be the case this time. If I remember correctly the Keynote is 2 hours long, so what else could Steve possibly talk about for that time? No new iMacs, eMacs, Mac mini's or iBooks. Possibly iPods but that's worth what, 20 minutes? We know Tiger will be out and shipped by then for at least a month so they won't spend much time on that. That gives a bare minimum of an hour left. Maybe talk of a future OS but I doubt that. In that time they could announce both Dual Core Powerbooks and Dual Core PowerMacs. Even a G5 powerbook could be announced. Even if they were announced then, they may take a few months to ship, which wouldn't be the first time. This would give the new revisions at least 6 month shelf life, and then the Dual Cores would ship. If this was the case Apple would only make a limited number of this new PowerMacs knowing the Dual Core announcement would slow down the current PowerMac sales. I'm not saying this is going to happen but it is possible. I sure hope so.

Seriously what will Apple have to talk about at WWDC? If all these things are introduced right befor it? Software for sure, iPods maybe, maybe some new hardware peripheral a la iPod, but what else in that 2 hour segment? Honestly if these Pmac specs are correct I have to believe that there is a Powermac Pro line of some sort coming to top out with dual core cpus and hopefully PCIe, especially since the top models always get the 'new' tech in apple's lineup. Hopefully this may be evidenced if new Powermacs debut with said specs but at lower price points, opening up more room at the $3k mark and above...

here's to hoping.

[Val-kyrie]

now i have to make one of the biggest decisions of my life.... the updated..if u can call it that powermac... or the powerbook? does anyone know anything more or heard anything about how the freescale dual g4 project is going? also, would the current powerbook handle final cut express? i need something by this fall for school, i've had to do with a piece e-machines this semester but my parents are taking it back home after this. sooo... any advice on which one to get? i'm personally starting to lean into the powerbook unless the powermac is decently upgraded. whichever one i go with.. i need it to last me about 3-4 years.

Fortunately, I don't need the laptop for video editing. To answer your question, it has been mentioned that Moto isn't due to sample the 8641(D) until Fall this year, making its release unlikely before Jan, '06. More realistic would be a summer or fall release of the PPC7448--but with the exception of a higher bus speed (200 MHz), I don't find it that appealing. There is still no native DDR support built into it.

[rockthecasbah]

I dunno, I'm just having a difficult time believing this story. For all we know, Apple is laughing like crazy at us debating IBM and the future of G5. Put this in the record books: Unexpectedly Apple pulls a 3ghz dual core out of no where and blows everyone out of the water (high end). The new low end is a single core 2.5ghz, then a single or double 2.7ghz (different prices according to choice). ;)

[BanditBill]

I'm not concerned about performance as much as price. I'd like a PowerMac, but I'll probably buy a mini with Tiger pre-loaded due to the price.

I don't understand many people on these sites.
They brag because their computer is soooo fast.
They complain because Apple is not coming out with faster products.
If your time is so valueable, how can you afford to waste it on rumor sites?

Bill

[isaacc7]

What if they have a slight boost and a drop in price just to clear the pipeline of the "old" machines. Wild speculation here.... If they do have dual core or even dual dual core machines coming up, I'd think that they would require a new MB, different cooling system, maybe a different case, etc. If they are sitting on inventory, they will prob. want to get rid of it before announcing the new stuff. At least that's what I'm hoping:-)

[FlyNolJ]

These revisions are true, they have to be. Apple had their special little seminar on Sunday and the only thing they put out was software.
http://www.nabshow.com/PPC2005grid.pdf
If they put out a Dual-Core 3.0 ghz tomorrow or within two weeks it would be anti-climatic. As everyone has mentioned, Steve has an ego. The PowerMac is Apple's benchmark. I don't think that they are going to tell everyone in the Motion Certification and Exam conference that "oh by the way, you all will get to work on Dual-Dual Core 3.0 ghz systems." They sure aren't going to use this time to demo how blazing fast the said machine is. I checked, that seminar costs upward of 500 dollars to 1000. I'd be pissed if I didn't get knowledge.

[BenRoethig]

Seriously what will Apple have to talk about at WWDC? If all these things are introduced right befor it? Software for sure, iPods maybe, maybe some new hardware peripheral a la iPod, but what else in that 2 hour segment? Honestly if these Pmac specs are correct I have to believe that there is a Powermac Pro line of some sort coming to top out with dual core cpus and hopefully PCIe, especially since the top models always get the 'new' tech in apple's lineup. Hopefully this may be evidenced if new Powermacs debut with said specs but at lower price points, opening up more room at the $3k mark and above...

here's to hoping.

Apple wouldn't want to talk about the PowerMacs at WWDC. I could see Steve now: "Hey guys, we bumped our G5s another 200mhz. Five years ago that would have been really good. I know I promised you 3ghz this time last year. we're only 300mhz off and if we're really lucky we'll get those chips to you only a year and a half late. Look on the bright side, the wait is nothing like the Guns n Roses fans have had to endure for their new album Chinese Democracy that might be out sometime before the end of days."

[wrldwzrd89]

Seriously what will Apple have to talk about at WWDC? If all these things are introduced right befor it? Software for sure, iPods maybe, maybe some new hardware peripheral a la iPod, but what else in that 2 hour segment? Honestly if these Pmac specs are correct I have to believe that there is a Powermac Pro line of some sort coming to top out with dual core cpus and hopefully PCIe, especially since the top models always get the 'new' tech in apple's lineup. Hopefully this may be evidenced if new Powermacs debut with said specs but at lower price points, opening up more room at the $3k mark and above...

here's to hoping.
My guess is that one of two things will happen:

1. The WWDC keynote will be shorter than usual, since most of the things that have been announced at these keynotes in the past will have already happened. The PowerMac specs will be EXACTLY as rumored.

2. The WWDC keynote will be the usual length because the rumor sites got it wrong - Apple is planning several things they're going to unveil at WWDC, including new PowerMacs. Apple will catch us all by total surprise this time.

[Mord]

this is BS, apple is pulling TS's chain so we are like OMFG when they come out.

[dosers]

Allright, first of all I think it should have been obvious that there was no way Apple could have these Dual-Core chips ready in volume this soon - they haven't even been seen in other configurations yet (including Xbox 360, the dev systems are dual-CPU).
Let's face it, the speed bump is fine - is it disappointing ? SURE - but come on, a dual 2.7 is plenty fast. And you know what, as upset as we all are, other than people on boards like this, no-one really cares. Apple is not going to get into hot water of this with anyone but adament high-end fans, which are a tiny percentage of users.
I don't think there's a chance to have new system in the summer time; it makes no financial sense to change spec on systems (even just CPUs - APple isn't Dell that carries no inventory and has trucks docking at their assembly lines with less than 2 days stock on hand), and then revamp them completely 3 months later. In my opinion, we are sure to see the dual-core chips announced in Paris, shipping in the October / November time frame. ANd, frankly, I don't think it's gonna hurt Apple one bit. A small speed bump on the IMacs is going to be much bigger news to 'the public' (and Final Cut Studio to the Pro's).
My opinion, naturally :-)

Cheers,
Dan

[Val-kyrie]

The Hardware IS NOT great already. The hardware was fantastic the year before last. The hardware was great last year. The hardware is just OK this year. By next year we are going to be getting into the G4 PowerMac range of ‘It works”. Anyone who says otherwise is drinking a bit too much of the kool aid.

*sighs*

Once again Apple about to demonstrate that they are incapable of keeping their hardware up to date with the industry. They let one section of their product line hang on the vine just long enough that its just the side of spoiled rotten and then at the last nanosecond they update just in time to avoid complete disaster, and then repeats the cycle all over again. Quite frankly this kind of behavior isn’t something I’d expect from a world class company. Its something I’d expect from some little no named Taiwanese company who has bad management and can’t find the funds to maintain their product line. In short what the (*@@# 9^!! Is going on at Apple?!?

Perhaps it is the result of Steve thinking different. . . . Wasn't it Steve who said, "If I were running Apple, I would milk the Macintosh for all its worth and move on to the neXt great thing." (or something close to that)

Check out this article on the "Ubiquitous Society" and Apple's role in bringing it about: http://www.macsimumnews.com/index.php/archive/apples_new_tron_bombshell/

My theory is that Steve has more in common with IBM than processors--both are moving toward revenue models based on information services rather than hardware. Think about it....

Apple better be smarter than this and i pray that if this is all we get, jobs may have to drop ibm.

Or should Apple drop Jobs????

[WoofJoe]

All along I thought PCI-X and PCI Express were the same thing. I guess I'm wrong. Can someone in the know explain the difference to me?

Anyway, I don't mind 2.7Ghz and no dual core (AMD's at 2.7 aren't they?) nearly as much as I disagree with Apple's insistence on not making the X800 or 6800 graphics cards standard fare (with dual, dual-link) across the top three PM lines. They should ditch AGP, too. If nothing else it looks really bad on paper.

Dual 2.7, 6800 Ultra, 1GB memory (512x2), 16x dual-layer DVD "Superdrive" = $2,900. That I could swallow, despite AGP and no dual-core.

[aldo]

Didn't actually realize that. However, I have one question; How long did it take Apple to adopt AGP?

As it is now, Intel boards got PCIe first, then AMD, Apple could be next. PCIe is still fairly rare though even in the PC world.

Further, it would take a bit of work- NVidia and ATi don't make ONE Mac-compatible PCIe card (obviously), so Apple would have to take steps to make them start producing cards before they add the slot.

I disagree entirely. PCIe is taking off a lot faster than I thought it would. Nearly all of Dell's computers that ship with a seperate graphics card are PCIe and all the top-end graphics cards are PCIe now, you'll struggle to find an AGP one.

Not to mention PCIe allows SLI which is incredibly good.

[VicMacs]

Dejá vu all over again. I feel really sorry for all the upgraders who put off the last PM upgrade hoping for something better.


by now you gotta know that this almost never works... you buy if you need. if you wait for something better, you lose time, and time is money, so buy now if you need to.

[plastique45]

1-OK ok ok... First of all, this is information coming from a site that is tangled in a lawsuit with apple, are we really going to get are blood pressure worked up over this? There are so many rumors running around about the specifics of all of this I feel its a bit pointless to believe anything until its announced for this one (what happend to 'tiger only FCP5?)



2-I hope they update is huge but i'll buy whatever they are. I can't afford to wait another 9-12 months. Come on apple.. YOU CAN DO IT

1-Thinksecret is virtually never wrong, hence the lawsuit. Thinksecret never said FCP would be Toger only, where did you read something as idiotic as that? No pro user switch to a new OS until they can be assured that no bugs would trouble their production machines.

2-Apple doesn't make processors, they have nothing to do with this, other than having made a terrible mistake by not switching to x86 when every app to to be re-written for OS X.

[illumin8]

Actually, what am I saying... it's all bad... :(

I was looking at Apple's online store today in the refurb section (you know, the red tag for special deals), as I think this might be a good way to tell if a new model is about to be released, and what did I see?

$400 off the PM G5 2.5! ($2599) (http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/71508/wo/qYFHx94IcpRm2VLDVQHSxsuYvyt/0.0.11.1.0.6.63.0.0.0.0.0.0.3.1.1.0?97,71)

$300 off a 20" Imac G5, ($1599)... (http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/71508/wo/qYFHx94IcpRm2VLDVQHSxsuYvyt/1.0.0.11.1.0.6.7.3.5.1.1.0.1.5.1.2.5.0)

So it's not all bad... not only that, but you can get an entry-level DUAL 1.8 G5 for only $1699... That seriously kicks ass compared to buying that stupid Dell dual core system for way too much money ($3000-4000)! :D

Besides, even the 1.8 dual G5 has a dedicated 900 mhz. FSB per processor! The crippled Intel version of dual cores has both cores sharing the same tired 800 mhz. bus!

I'm almost tempted to spring for the heavily discounted G5s before the update, but I didn't want to get the liquid-cooled version. I heard that Apple executives were already worried that the cooling systems would fail after average 2 years and leak all over your carpet!

[ogopogo]

"If your time is so valueable, how can you afford to waste it on rumor sites?"

Perhaps because we're waiting on our painfully slow G4 to render?

I'm with the minority here in actually NEEDING a real upgrade,
including both dual-core AND PCI-E.

The truth is, the current "high end" GPU for the G5
is scarcely better than the GeForce4MX in my G4.

I heard rumors elsewhere that ATI was developing a version of its highest-end PCI-E card, the FireGL V7100, for new Macs,
and that made me giddy, as the much older FireGL X1 in my Xeon box
screams in comparison to the GeForce4 in my Mac.

It frustrates me entirely to think that Apple could pass up the opportunity
to actually stay even with PCs on the GPU front.

And not releasing dual-cores until way after everyone else?
That would be f'n WEAK.

[memofromturner]

This really doesn't seem likely. I mean, Apple moving slowly is expected, well at least from me... but moving backwards? No PCI-X?

And still no PCI-Express?

How could they not travel the dual core route!!!?!!!

This is either misinformation, or Apple now just makes iPods and computers for accessing ITMS.

[Proto-Clown]

Ok, I read through MOST of these posts and nowhere does anybody ask the question: If its the same processor with a speed bump, why no 2.5 ghz? I mean, its already in place, why kill it and start producing a 2.3 ghz?

If this was already asked and answered, I apologize.

-Tom

[afields]

Seriously what will Apple have to talk about at WWDC?


Probably some more iPod crap. :rolleyes: Seriously, I love my iPod as much as the next guy, but it seems sometimes this is the only hardware they give a ***** about. They *actually* update it on a regular basis. :eek:

[PeterQVenkman]

Ok, I read through MOST of these posts and nowhere does anybody ask the question: If its the same processor with a speed bump, why no 2.5 ghz? I mean, its already in place, why kill it and start producing a 2.3 ghz?

If this was already asked and answered, I apologize.


no apologies here. The 2.3's are in the Xserves right now. That's what makes these rumors pretty realistic. I don't think those 2.3's in that pizza box are water cooled!

I'm in the camp of disappointed, but I needed a PowerMac in January. I'll take what I can get and be happy. Jump from a 800mhz iMac to dual 2.3?

Yes Please!

[wrldwzrd89]

Ok, I read through MOST of these posts and nowhere does anybody ask the question: If its the same processor with a speed bump, why no 2.5 ghz? I mean, its already in place, why kill it and start producing a 2.3 ghz?

If this was already asked and answered, I apologize.

-Tom
First of all, the 2.3 GHz chip isn't new. It's currently being used in the XServes. Secondly, remember how long it took for 2.5 GHz production to ramp up? Perhaps the 2.5 GHz CPU was just hard to produce, and IBM thinks they can produce a 2.7 GHz CPU better and faster. Finally, I think, assuming this is true, that temporary problems at IBM's production plants, which have since been resolved, are a significant factor in Apple's decision.

[daveL]

This really doesn't seem likely. I mean, Apple moving slowly is expected, well at least from me... but moving backwards? No PCI-X?

And still no PCI-Express?

How could they not travel the dual core route!!!?!!!

This is either misinformation, or Apple now just makes iPods and computers for accessing ITMS.
Don't know where you got the bit about no PCI-X. TS said no PCI-X 2.0; that doesn't translate into no PCI-X.

[FriarTuck]

Eh. Meh. Feh.

I hope this doesn't mean the initial report re: iMac specs was similarly overoptimistic.

[Object-X]

Slow down buddy.

The Cell is extremely good at floating point but terrible at integer calculations- and I mean absolutely terrible in comparison to the floating point scores. And it's 3-4 times more expensive than a normal processor. So Cell is really hit or miss. It's awesome for a video editting machine and good for a gaming machine but sucks for a normal user.

Don't get too excited.

Sorry, but it's coming fast. It's not just the Cell, but the Cell working with the G5! Remember Job's statement about GPUs? Why was the Pres of Sony on stage? To promote a video camera? Ya right. He's there because Jobs is about to take over the TV and Movie business just like he did with music. That's what the H.264 codec and streaming TV is all about. Digital movie projectors running off of Xserves. TV from your television to your cell phone to your iPod all using this codec and streaming from Apple's servers. Cell chips will make this happen and they will be a HUGE part of Apple's hardware.

"Apple is going to be one of the most profitable "internet" companies in the next ten years" -- Steve Jobs

That was five years ago. I'm telling you, Jobs thinks really really BIG. He wants his technology to control music, video, and TV. The iPod and iTunes is just the first wave. The tidal wave is coming and it will begin with Tiger. Why have they made such a big deal about over 300 million downloads of Quicktime? ::yawn:: Who cares? But that is Apple's secret weapon...a system within system. It's on almost every PC. Quicktime will allow Apple to stream internet content to all computers, TVs, cell phones, PDAs, iPod, whatever, as a service. Imagine your cell phone, iPod, car system, ect. all connected to a MAN (Metropolitan Area Network) wireless network with the up/down speeds of broadband. And all these devices will be using the Cell chip. It's coming.

Imagine an OS X client application running on your Sony HDTV. Sony has. Poor Ando couldn't even express it:

"And I think...ah...what...you know this...well, I don't know...and then...we should together - We'll really create this great HD world and everything - right?" -- Kunitake Ando

To which Jobs replied, "We're in!"

It's coming I'm telling you. What Microsoft has wanted to acheive the last 10 years Apple is going to do by next year. The technologies in Tiger are ready made for this. A Cell based workstation running apps like Shake are where it's at in the video world.

Microsoft is dead. I'm telling you they are gone in 5 years. They can't do it. Apple is supporting open standards and all the various industries are on board. Tiger is out in a week. It is superior in every way to Windows and everyone knows it. Software as a service (think iTunes) is the next generation of software and it's platform independent. IBM has been pushing thin client for years and Apple's iTunes is a perfect example of it. Soon to be on your phone and TV. Coming soon.

Let me elaborate. Quicktime is going to be the basis of video content on computers, TVs, cell phones, ect. I know it' only been a "player" but it's about to become the Video application of choice that will change everything. Imagine downloading your movies using Quicktime and purchasing your movies, just like with iTunes, but using Quicktime or Safari on your TV or computer. You're going to use it to control your television; sort of like Tivo. Sony is going to create a TV that is a glorified computer with the Cell chip and it's going to be running software developed by Apple.

[dosers]

...
"If your time is so valueable, how can you afford to waste it on rumor sites?"

Perhaps because we're waiting on our painfully slow G4 to render?

I'm with the minority here in actually NEEDING a real upgrade,
including both dual-core AND PCI-E.
Well, how is that ? What are you doing that NEEDs a real upgrade such as PCI-E (AGP is rarely maxing out bandwidth today) and dual core (are you running at 200% on your Dual 2.5 ?!)

The truth is, the current "high end" GPU for the G5
is scarcely better than the GeForce4MX in my G4.
Now THAT is silly- The Geforce 6800 Ultra Card is in a completely different dimension than the 4MX. It's in fact extremely high end!!

I heard rumors elsewhere that ATI was developing a version of its highest-end PCI-E card, the FireGL V7100, for new Macs,
and that made me giddy, as the much older FireGL X1 in my Xeon box
screams in comparison to the GeForce4 in my Mac.
Are you using Maya, Shake or Renderman ? FireGL is a great card, with superior OpenGL accelleration, but certainly not the best every card out there - on the PC or the Mac side (where at least we are running on OpenGL too boot)....

It frustrates me entirely to think that Apple could pass up the opportunity
to actually stay even with PCs on the GPU front.
But it's not up to them, is it ? Frankly, very few people outside of this board will care that the dual cores aren't coming till October. But, in either case, Apple is relying on IBM to get volume chips.... THey don't make 'em.

And not releasing dual-cores until way after everyone else?
That would be f'n WEAK.

[joshua_msu]

Not only is this a terrible update after 11 months, but of course you know the the high end 2.7 will be on at least a 4 week shipping delay as usual for Apple.

The Power lines are not POWER anymore, the least they could do is not charge a pro line premium.

[dosers]

.Sorry, but it's coming fast. It's not just the Cell, but the Cell working with the G5! Remember Job's statement about GPUs? Why was the Pres of Sony on stage? To promote a video camera? Ya right. He's there because Jobs is about to take over the TV and Movie business just like he did with music. That's what the H.264 codec and streaming TV is all about. Digital movie projectors running off of Xserves. TV from your television to your cell phone to your iPod all using this codec and streaming from Apple's servers. Cell chips will make this happen and they will be a HUGE part of Apple's hardware.

"Apple is going to be one of the most profitable "internet" companies in the next ten years" -- Steve Jobs

That was five years ago. I'm telling you, Jobs thinks really really BIG. He wants his technology to control music, video, and TV. The iPod and iTunes is just the first wave. The tidal wave is coming and it will begin with Tiger. Why have they made such a big deal about over 300 million downloads of Quicktime? ::yawn:: Who cares? But that is Apple's secret weapon...a system within system. It's on almost every PC. Quicktime will allow Apple to stream internet content to all computers, TVs, cell phones, PDAs, iPod, whatever, as a service. Imagine your cell phone, iPod, car system, ect. all connected to a MAN (Metropolitan Area Network) wireless network with the up/down speeds of broadband. And all these devices will be using the Cell chip. It's coming.

Imagine an OS X client application running on your Sony HDTV. Sony has. Poor Ando couldn't even express it:

"And I think...ah...what...you know this...well, I don't know...and then...we should together - We'll really create this great HD world and everything - right?" -- Kunitake Ando

To which Jobs replied, "We're in!"

It's coming I'm telling you. What Microsoft has wanted to acheive the last 10 years Apple is going to do by next year. The technologies in Tiger are ready made for this. A Cell based workstation running apps like Shake are where it's at in the video world.

Microsoft is dead. I'm telling you they are gone in 5 years. They can't do it. Apple is supporting open standards and all the various industries are on board. Tiger is out in a week. It is superior in every way to Windows and everyone knows it. Software as a service (think iTunes) is the next generation of software and it's platform independent. IBM has been pushing thin client for years and Apple's iTunes is a perfect example of it. Soon to be on your phone and TV. Coming soon.


Listen, I love Apple like the next guy, but Microsoft ain't dead! Apart from them being able to buy Apple tomorrow before Steve has breakfast if they REALLY wanted to, Microsoft is IBM now - they are big, they are everywhere and they are here to stay. Let's face it, Apple has less than 4% marketshare. We NEED Microsoft. I want Apple to succeed very much, and I think they are, but we're moving a bit fast here, no ?! :-)

[riversky]

This is more proof Apple's hardware division is focused more on the iPod and it's peripherals than the core high end Power user.....NO update in a year!!!! UNBELIEVEABLE!!!

Also WTF, this is a crap update, Intel and AMD are shipping dual core this week!!! Adobe might have been right when they said that Windows was the preferred platform for Indesign and PhotoShop if Apple doesn't get their Power lines in order. Funny but PowerMac sales have been falling ever since the intro of the G5 processor quarter over quater. It is the iMac, mini and iPod that is Apple's bread and butter now...

Jobs spank those hardware engineers and lets get moving!!!!

[dosers]

Well, it's like you said: Apple is where they are today because of the Ipod. Let's face it, the music / electronic download side of the business will be what grows their business. THen come the consumer systems. The Powermac sales, while I love mine, are fairly low. Falling sales in the PM line have nothing to do with the G5. It's either pro's using Windows now (Photoshop, Vegas etc.) or simply not needing better than a Dual 2.5. I don't think Apple is neglecting the PM line so much as simply waiting for the chips from IBM.

It makes NO sense to introduce new boards with PCI-Express and faster memory, but using the same chips. They will wait till they get the dual cores in volume the end of the year and THEN pair them with PCI-E and so on. ANd, that makes sense from an investment point-of-view. From an R&D cost POV and again, I think some people here overestimate the 'repercussion' not having new PMs 'now' will have outside of this board....

d

This is more proof Apple's hardware division is focused more on the iPod and it's peripherals than the core high end Power user.....NO update in a year!!!! UNBELIEVEABLE!!!

Also WTF, this is a crap update, Intel and AMD are shipping dual core this week!!! Adobe might have been right when they said that Windows was the preferred platform for Indesign and PhotoShop if Apple doesn't get their Power lines in order. Funny but PowerMac sales have been falling ever since the intro of the G5 processor quarter over quater. It is the iMac, mini and iPod that is Apple's bread and butter now...

Jobs spank those hardware engineers and lets get moving!!!!

[JoE950]

Heres the plan. everyone sell all of your stock immediately. NOBODY buy new powermacs. instead only buy refurbs if you need them. when apples stock hits the floor, buy as much of it as you can (using your pent up G5 upgrade money). the day of reckoning will come soon after. it shall be glorious!

[ThomasJefferson]

tru, this is a crap update and we will all now tread water for the next 7-8 months. on the other hand, at least we have outgrown the, "but will this run photoshop" comments.

it bites, but it is not the end of the world. i still have nightmares that steve has a warehouse full of 500mhz processors that he needs to use up ...

[Bubbasteve]

Or should Apple drop Jobs????

Correct me if I'm wrong (and believe me, I know at least one of you out there will debate this) but didn't Apple cut their ties with Mr. Steve Jobs once before which eventually lead Apple close to filing for bankruptcy...then they brought him back which basically saved Apple...I mean I'm just spitballin here but I think that's the last thing Apple should do (to "drop Jobs") :o

[zap2]

I actually feel like swearing! If this is true, how does it relate to Steve standing on stage in 2003 and bragging about 3Ghz machines in 2004? He may well be 2 years late in his prediction!

I've put off buying for over a year already, and now this pathetic revision!

Apple need to get off concentrating on consumer lines (iPod, Mini) and supply it's loyal pro users with machines that they want and need.

****! There, I've said it!

it would be great if apple did that but really there us know need because if ur buying a super powermac then ur a loyal apple use and moslty likely never use windows agian, plus ipods and minis are were apple is growing

[mcgarry]

Of course, I have no inside information, like almost all of us here, so anything I say is pretty much bs .... but I still think TS knows something. Yes, maybe Apple is being more careful and information is shadier and therefore has a greater potential margin of error, but I doubt these specs are part of some nefarious plot to fool MR/TS readers: I just don't think we're that important.

I also think there's a chance GFLPraxis could be right about another, higher-end model coming out at WWDC-- not a whole line refresh, just a new crown on top (PowerMac 8100, anyone?). I don't mean that this is super-likely, I just mean that it is not so outside the realm of possibility.

Lastly, to those two posters expecting iBook updates based on the MR Buyer's Guide: it's a guide, people! Set your watch by it at your own peril. These things move on Apple-time ...

[paulypants]

If Intel and AMD systems with dual core tech are going to be priced at $3k and higher, does it really make sense that Apple will sell dual core chips in quad configs for the same price points as they are selling Powermacs now (less than $3k)? What better way for Apple to highlight and market new technology than to create a new Pro line which would be priced at (or above, as does Apple) the competition. Anyway, just a thought.

[Object-X]

.


Listen, I love Apple like the next guy, but Microsoft ain't dead! Apart from them being able to buy Apple tomorrow before Steve has breakfast if they REALLY wanted to, Microsoft is IBM now - they are big, they are everywhere and they are here to stay. Let's face it, Apple has less than 4% marketshare. We NEED Microsoft. I want Apple to succeed very much, and I think they are, but we're moving a bit fast here, no ?! :-)

I respectfully disagree. Microsoft is dying. A tremendous paradigm shift is about to take place in the computer world and Apple, IBM, Sony, Sun, and others are pushing it. This shift is going to happen so fast you won't even beleive it. Microsoft can't keep up. They are still doing things the way they did 20 years ago and that model is about to collapse.

Apple is delivering what Microsoft has only been talking about. I'm telling you, they can't do it. Their cash cow is Windows and they can't even ship it. Longhorn will not have all the features they need to put in it and what they might have won't be ready for almost two more years!!! That is ages in tech time. Apple is turning into a internet service company. They are going to literally control all distribution of music in the near future and video and TV is next.

The Cell chip is going to be in everything imaginable. And Apple is going to write the software. And all along the way Apple computers will gain significant marketshare, not to mention mind share. Microsoft is too huge, they are into too many different things, and their technologies (at least the ones that will make money) are not going to be adopted by an industry that increasingly distrusts their monopoly and dislikes their implementation. Apple is perfectly positioned to adopt and support open standards while capitalizing on internet based service software (ala iTunes).

Microsoft's empire was built on copying others, but they can't even do that anymore. All they have is their money. But money can't buy you everything. IBM will never let Apple get purchased by Microsoft and I don't think the government would allow it either. Microsoft's days are numbered. They must innovate or die. And we all know which it will be.

[woodsie]

i've been waiting over 2 months for these 'rumor's about new PM's to eventuate. i just sold my beige G3 that i bought over 7 yrs ago...so i'm absolutely killing for a newer, faster machine but all this specualation is so annoying. no way can i wait till june and....as for '2 weeks'?, that sounds just as flakey as the original rumor.

:confused:

[12thgear]

...And people claim rumor sites are nothing but good for Apple. Free publicity, yadda yadda yadda...

Hey, the next Power Macs could be underwhelming. Or Thinksecret's info could be wrong and the next updates will be ok. It's too early to tell. But anyone logging in here is just going to see a deluge of carping and whining over something that doesn't even exist yet. But it's so one sided it's sure to scare plenty of people.

But hey, it's free publicity.

Sorry to be such a downer, I just see this same cycle repeating itself.

[Rocket Rion]

Aww, not this s--- again! Go away, Thinksecret.

[memofromturner]

Don't know where you got the bit about no PCI-X. TS said no PCI-X 2.0; that doesn't translate into no PCI-X.

So they are not going with the PCI-X 2.0 spec... well that's a little better than me reading it as Apple removing PCI-X from the lineup.

But still... I can't see this rumor being accurate.

They've been sitting on 2.5 GHz for [a year]? If the current architecture will not allow for much of a speed bump, then they had over a year to rethink other options. And the brilliant plan for revamping the G5 is to not adopt new technologies like PCI-Express and dual core processors?

PCI-Express is quickly becoming the new standard, but leave it to Apple to be arrogant and not support it for spite. You know, unless it's open source, Apple doesn't want to use it... yet they enjoy creating their own proprietary technologies.

Oh well, I suppose it's always been a love/hate relationship with Apple. I'd really like Apple's high end computers (PMs) to be competitive with PCs... but if these rumors pan out, I'm afraid the comparison between Mac and PC will be one of irrelevance.

[ogopogo]

Now THAT is silly- The Geforce 6800 Ultra Card is in a completely different dimension than the 4MX. It's in fact extremely high end!!

Oh?
Now, I'm not denying that it's technically superior to the 4MX,
but when I put my friend's dual 2.5 next to my Xeon and my G4,
its rendering speed (and I'm talking about hardware rendered Maya particles here) was MUCH closer to the G4 than the Xeon.
This could be a result of bad OpenGL implementation,
or it could be that these cards aren't as cut out for my line of work as the FireGLs are.

Are you using Maya, Shake or Renderman ?(where at least we are running on OpenGL too boot)...
Yes, yes, and yes.
Not only am I using Maya,
but as an Effects Artist,
I use particles and fluid effects EXTENSIVELY.
The particles depend *heavily* on graphics hardware for speed and stability,
and sadly, the video cards available for Macs (even current high end models) fall short on both counts.

The fluids are among the most processor intensive tasks any computer can be given.
I'd like to think that a dual-dual-core g5/g6 would make those 20 minutes per frame render times into something a bit more tolerable.

[memofromturner]

Sorry, but it's coming fast. It's not just the Cell, but the Cell working with the G5! Remember Job's statement about GPUs? Why was the Pres of Sony on stage? To promote a video camera? Ya right. He's there because Jobs is about to take over the TV and Movie business just like he did with music. That's what the H.264 codec and streaming TV is all about. Digital movie projectors running off of Xserves. TV from your television to your cell phone to your iPod all using this codec and streaming from Apple's servers. Cell chips will make this happen and they will be a HUGE part of Apple's hardware.

"Apple is going to be one of the most profitable "internet" companies in the next ten years" -- Steve Jobs

That was five years ago. I'm telling you, Jobs thinks really really BIG. He wants his technology to control music, video, and TV. The iPod and iTunes is just the first wave. The tidal wave is coming and it will begin with Tiger. Why have they made such a big deal about over 300 million downloads of Quicktime? ::yawn:: Who cares? But that is Apple's secret weapon...a system within system. It's on almost every PC. Quicktime will allow Apple to stream internet content to all computers, TVs, cell phones, PDAs, iPod, whatever, as a service. Imagine your cell phone, iPod, car system, ect. all connected to a MAN (Metropolitan Area Network) wireless network with the up/down speeds of broadband. And all these devices will be using the Cell chip. It's coming.

Imagine an OS X client application running on your Sony HDTV. Sony has. Poor Ando couldn't even express it:

"And I think...ah...what...you know this...well, I don't know...and then...we should together - We'll really create this great HD world and everything - right?" -- Kunitake Ando

To which Jobs replied, "We're in!"

It's coming I'm telling you. What Microsoft has wanted to acheive the last 10 years Apple is going to do by next year. The technologies in Tiger are ready made for this. A Cell based workstation running apps like Shake are where it's at in the video world.

Microsoft is dead. I'm telling you they are gone in 5 years. They can't do it. Apple is supporting open standards and all the various industries are on board. Tiger is out in a week. It is superior in every way to Windows and everyone knows it. Software as a service (think iTunes) is the next generation of software and it's platform independent. IBM has been pushing thin client for years and Apple's iTunes is a perfect example of it. Soon to be on your phone and TV. Coming soon.

Let me elaborate. Quicktime is going to be the basis of video content on computers, TVs, cell phones, ect. I know it' only been a "player" but it's about to become the Video application of choice that will change everything. Imagine downloading your movies using Quicktime and purchasing your movies, just like with iTunes, but using Quicktime or Safari on your TV or computer. You're going to use it to control your television; sort of like Tivo. Sony is going to create a TV that is a glorified computer with the Cell chip and it's going to be running software developed by Apple.

I really REALLY hope you are right! I've long wondered about this [using the cell], maybe you're on to something here...

[~loserman~]

I respectfully disagree. Microsoft is dying. A tremendous paradigm shift is about to take place in the computer world and Apple, IBM, Sony, Sun, and others are pushing it. This shift is going to happen so fast you won't even beleive it. Microsoft can't keep up. They are still doing things the way they did 20 years ago and that model is about to collapse.


Maybe in the "Bizzaro Word"

It is very very hard to take a monopoly down. Especially when the government has decided to leave them alone. Until an alternative operating system can compete against them in the X86 world they will continue to dominate. Of course it isn't just the OS, it's the Apps and developers too.
Say what you want but anyone who develops software for a living will tell you Microsoft has built the easiest to use and most powerful development suite ever. Visual studio is a dream to use. It's debuggers are awesome.
Apple's Xcode Tools are a joke in comparison.

[crpchristian]

1-Thinksecret is virtually never wrong, hence the lawsuit. Thinksecret never said FCP would be Toger only, where did you read something as idiotic as that? No pro user switch to a new OS until they can be assured that no bugs would trouble their production machines.

2-Apple doesn't make processors, they have nothing to do with this, other than having made a terrible mistake by not switching to x86 when every app to to be re-written for OS X.

http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2005/02/20050216183059.shtml
That should anwser your 'tiger only' remark.

I realize thinksecret has been mostly very accurate in the past but with the lawsuit I'm just saying i wouldn't be counting on their info for gospel for the time being. Apple is obviously very huge, has a ton of money and cares very much of its product 'secrecy'. I think its a bit naive to think they can't seriously manipulate the whole 'rumor mill' if they wanted to. i wonder what an apple NDA is like, i bet is pretty tight and thurough.

Apple has a lot of money and a lot of it is involved with IBM right now. Apple is a HOT company now(more in teh consumer/non pro market right now) and companies often run with a thin profit margin. IF apple left IBM i'm sure they'd survive but it'd hurt them. I realize apple doesn't produce their own processors but i assure you they have something to do with the development.

[jauh]

CALM DOWN PEOPLE!

My theory:
We're getting the current lineup updated in two weeks. In JUNE, they will release a $3500...dual processor dual core PowerMac G5. The 970MP's should be ready by June, right?

... a very bad business move... surely nobody would release something and outdate it in a six weeks time...

[Zigster]

Originally Posted by Object-X

"Microsoft's days are numbered"

Umm, yeah, back in line for Star Wars 3 there, X. WM-9 is being used by quite a few film festivals now for HD projection....because MS gave them the equipment free. Mister Softie knows that they can't rely completely on MS word for revenue and they are PREPARED to BUY their way into any business or model that appears.

Now there's no denying Apple has a plan to get in the HD content world. They want producers like me to be making stuff using their tools, and their codecs. Hey, i'm all for it, but here's a newsflash. You need some hardware to do that. And it's not Apple against the world, they need help. All those trailers on the Apple site? Sorensen codec by the way....

Though I think Apple will deliver the goods, but they are in big time catch-up mode. The Ipod has given them some breathing room and a deep pocket. Let's see what they come up with.

[calyxman]

I respectfully disagree. Microsoft is dying. A tremendous paradigm shift is about to take place in the computer world and Apple, IBM, Sony, Sun, and others are pushing it. This shift is going to happen so fast you won't even beleive it. Microsoft can't keep up. They are still doing things the way they did 20 years ago and that model is about to collapse.

Apple is delivering what Microsoft has only been talking about. I'm telling you, they can't do it. Their cash cow is Windows and they can't even ship it. Longhorn will not have all the features they need to put in it and what they might have won't be ready for almost two more years!!! That is ages in tech time. Apple is turning into a internet service company. They are going to literally control all distribution of music in the near future and video and TV is next.

The Cell chip is going to be in everything imaginable. And Apple is going to write the software. And all along the way Apple computers will gain significant marketshare, not to mention mind share. Microsoft is too huge, they are into too many different things, and their technologies (at least the ones that will make money) are not going to be adopted by an industry that increasingly distrusts their monopoly and dislikes their implementation. Apple is perfectly positioned to adopt and support open standards while capitalizing on internet based service software (ala iTunes).

Microsoft's empire was built on copying others, but they can't even do that anymore. All they have is their money. But money can't buy you everything. IBM will never let Apple get purchased by Microsoft and I don't think the government would allow it either. Microsoft's days are numbered. They must innovate or die. And we all know which it will be.

Ok, so you've pounded your point into our heads so many times. Could you please cite some examples of how Microsoft's is going to be driven it into oblivion? Are they just sitting on their hands? Does their strategy suck?

Microsoft does sit on $30 billion (or was it more?) in cash reserves. Will that disappear along with Microsft?

And if Microsoft does disappear, who will be the major OS player in the business segment? Banks, insurance companies, real estate, investment bankers, traders, and even the public sector?

And let's assume Apple's stock falls to $10-15. Will you still be gung ho on Apples capitalization on the digital lifestyle?

Pretty scary looking chart if you ask me, huh?

http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/charts/big.chart?symb=aapl&compidx=aaaaa%3A0&ma=3&maval=50%2C200&uf=0&lf=1&lf2=0&lf3=0&type=1&size=2&state=15&sid=609&style=350&time=8&freq=1&comp=NO%5FSYMBOL%5FCHOSEN&nosettings=1&rand=9148&mocktick=1

[jauh]

WOO HOO!

3GHZ by SUMMER 2004!!!!

er...

2005

er, nope.... 2006 maybe?


Maybe their PR staff made a small typo and it should've said 2.3?.. Just a wild guess...

[RowdyBacon]

Hmmmm....might not this announcement be a better indicator of whether or not dual-core PowerMacs are on the horizon?

http://www.macworld.com/news/2005/04/18/lightwave/index.php

As one of the posters points out, Lightwave is a cross-platform application, and this could merely be in anticipation of Intel's and AMD's soon-to-be dual-core processors. But I've got a feeling these guys know something the rest of us don't. ;)

[nagromme]

so assuming millions/billions of dollars of future pmac purchases are in the balance of if apple is going to get a top of the line computer out by the end of the summer, apple can kiss those sales good bye to amd and intel w/ their new duals.

Absolutely. Unless those PowerMac pro users are unable to find suitable x86 alternatives to OS X, Final Cut Pro, etc. ;)

[dicklacara]

Correct me if I'm wrong (and believe me, I know at least one of you out there will debate this) but didn't Apple cut their ties with Mr. Steve Jobs once before which eventually lead Apple close to filing for bankruptcy...then they brought him back which basically saved Apple...I mean I'm just spitballin here but I think that's the last thing Apple should do (to "drop Jobs") :o

The 2 best things that ever happened to Apple:

1) When SJ left Apple
2) When SJ returned to Apple

odd, but both needed to happen!

[appleface]

... a very bad business move... surely nobody would release something and outdate it in a six weeks time...

maybe they'll announce dual-duals in june (shipping in november)

[Hattig]

I think that everyone here is being overly pessimistic about the situation.

Honestly "Apple will be dead" and similar! Get a grip.

Yes, it isn't a great update, and it has been a while since the previous one too. What we don't know yet is if the price of the hardware will fall because the update isn't great. If it doesn't, I'll be a bit more disappointed, but not as distraught as some here.

Fact is, even Intel and AMD haven't been increasing speeds very well in the past year or so. The situation is simply that IBM are in the same situation with the 970FX processor, and the follow up chips (970GX, 970MP) aren't in mass production yet. Which is what I've previously guessed in other posts here.

At the end of this month we will probably have:

Apple: $3000 Max, Two 2.7GHz Processors in a system, 1.35GHz FSB per processor
Dell: $3000, Two 3.2GHz SMT enabled cores in a system, shared 1066MHz FSB
AMD: $?, Dual-core 2.2GHz Opteron, dual dual-core 2.2GHz Opteron, quad dual-core 2.2GHz Opteron, OR single-processor-only single-core 2.6GHz A64FX (moving to 2.8GHz soonish) OR (soon) dual-core 2.4GHz A64.

The Dell price is one I saw earlier today, due to ship mid-May. I.e., today's Intel dual-core processor launch was a paper-launch to pre-empt AMD's.

Now a 3.2GHz P4 is about as powerful as a 2.0GHz Athlon 64 in many tasks, with FP SIMD being a place where it beats the Athlon 64. The G5 is roughly as powerful per clock in general as AMD's chips, except that Altivec gives it an FP SIMD advantage.

A dual 2.7GHz system is still pretty damned good. Especially if Tiger is also worth a speed grade or two over Panther!

The graphics are still naff though, even if it has moved up to a Radeon 9600, or 'Radeon 9650' in the 2.7. Still, if it takes graphics load off the CPU then performance in CPU tasks can only improve further.

[gugy]

It's amazing how many people are whining because what TS is predicting.
They just got a wrong prediction of Powermacs at NAB. How come now they come up with some new prediction and people are just going crazy about it? Doesn't make any sense. I know TS record is not bad but come on, it's just a rumor.
TS sources are probably under the gun by Apple lawsuits. Anybody who wants to keep their jobs at Apple and want to avoid any lawsuits are not saying anything to TS.
If we don't see any upgrade before WWDC is a good thing, I doubt Steve Jobs is going to deliver his keynote for a pathetic 200mhz update on the Powermac front.
His ego is too big to get booed at his keynote. If indeed Powermacs will be upgrade at WWDC is going to be a major one.

[nagromme]

As one of the posters points out, Lightwave is a cross-platform application, and this could merely be in anticipation of Intel's and AMD's soon-to-be dual-core processors. But I've got a feeling these guys know something the rest of us don't. ;)

Assuming LightWave already supports dual CPUs on Mac... I wouldn't be at ALL surprised if the Mac platform required no re-writing at ALL to support two cores in one chip. Supporting AMD and Intel dual-core chips may require some effort that's just not needed on the Mac side. Anyone know? Would the code for OS X and X apps even CARE whether the two CPUs were on one chip or not? (I realize the resulting speed could be better on a single chip.)

[kildjean]

.


Listen, I love Apple like the next guy, but Microsoft ain't dead! Apart from them being able to buy Apple tomorrow before Steve has breakfast if they REALLY wanted to, Microsoft is IBM now - they are big, they are everywhere and they are here to stay. Let's face it, Apple has less than 4% marketshare. We NEED Microsoft. I want Apple to succeed very much, and I think they are, but we're moving a bit fast here, no ?! :-)

or just go numeric...

Apple did record quarter sales... 3.85 billion...

Microsoft in its quarter reported 28.5 billion...

[wrldwzrd89]

... a very bad business move... surely nobody would release something and outdate it in a six weeks time...
Did you read the whole thread before posting?

It was mentioned earlier that the release in six weeks time would be a "new form-factor release" rather than a full product update - similar to what happened when the PowerBook 12 and 17 inch models were released.

[~loserman~]

Another point for those that think Microsoft is dying and Apple is going to beat them.
Microsoft's Earnings are 10.6 Billion
Apple's Earnings are 730 Million

Quite a difference

[drewyboy]

well... u know when things get to big.. it might collapse in on itself.. just a thought.

P.S. It's now how much they are earning... its how much their economic revenue is.. ya know .. input vs. output

[dicklacara]

The Cell chip is going to be in everything imaginable. And Apple is going to write the software.

I've read a bit about the CELL chip & think it can be used for (will revolutionize) a lot of things.

I have heard that it can be a GPU and do an outstanding job of h264 encoding/decoding.

I have heard that you can treat it as a self-contained object and distribute workload among multiple CELL chips on the same or different computers-- need to do more work, add more CELLS.

So here is my question: Could Apple realize a significant increase in GPU power by including CELL chips on plugin cards (as opposed to slots on the motherboard). Assume the programming exists to take advantage of this.

If this is true... this changes everything!

[spaceballl]

I still say Apple should have made some kind of partnership with AMD instead of IBM.
Funny how AMD wouldn't be where it is right now if it weren't for its technology exchange and partnership w/ IBM... so really, IBM is needed here in some form. And IBM wouldn't have had the technology like SOI that it helped AMD w/ unless they were developing the PPC970.

-Kevin

[paulypants]

Did you read the whole thread before posting?

It was mentioned earlier that the release in six weeks time would be a "new form-factor release" rather than a full product update - similar to what happened when the PowerBook 12 and 17 inch models were released.

Indeed. Leaving the Powermacs alone and introducing a new workstation above the powermacs in performance and price, essentially creating a new line as opposed to updating an existing one.

[spaceballl]

Lets see.... Intel/AMD are just now getting into the multi-core business while Macs have had dual processors on their desktop line for how long?? Yes since the G4!
Multi-core is not the same thing as multi-CPU. Intel/AMD are just releasing these parts. Apple has never had one before. If you're talking about dual processors, there have been dual, quad, x16, etc configurations around since the day of 486/Pentium Pro.

-Kevin

[PCM]

Wow. How surprising (sarcasm intended).

Anyway, at least I won't have to think hard about getting last model's dual 2.5 for 1999 once the new ones come out.

This is pretty despicable. Not to mention, NO AIRPORT OR BLUETOOTH INCLUDED IN A 3000 DOLLAR MACHINE!!!!!!!!

If only I wasn't locked into using Digital Performer as well as pro tools...I'd build an AMD machine in a heartbeat and use my powerbook for regular computing. "Power"-book, is a term I use lightly. Tiger better smoke...that's all I can say.

[wrldwzrd89]

Multi-core is not the same thing as multi-CPU. Intel/AMD are just releasing these parts. Apple has never had one before. If you're talking about dual processors, there have been dual, quad, x16, etc configurations around since the day of 486/Pentium Pro.

-Kevin
Hardware-wise, dual-core and dual-CPU aren't at all similar. Performance-wise, at least in theory, there should be very little difference between a pair of model X processors running at Y speed and one dual-core X processor with cores running at Y speed. I believe this is the reason for the confusion.

[BenRoethig]

Allright, first of all I think it should have been obvious that there was no way Apple could have these Dual-Core chips ready in volume this soon - they haven't even been seen in other configurations yet (including Xbox 360, the dev systems are dual-CPU).
n

The Xbox360 core is supposed to be a close relative of the Cell's PPE. It really doesn't have a lot to due with Dual Core G5s.

[kildjean]

I think everyone here is being a drama queen...

I am sorry but its true.

First of all like someone here just wrote. Steve Jobs has a big ego. Do you think he is going to base or present some lame upgrade, another (We know 200 features) tiger speech... or tell us how cute keynote is?

I believe that maybe the information TS is giving away has a bit of both things, misinformation and truth... after all what is the purpose of the show if no expectation is given?

Apple is going to roll new equipment out... we have been given hints.. of things to come.. maybe not a lot of them but something new will show up...

And if they dont.. then pucker up, enjoy tiger and dont whine.. eventually something good will happen...

Kil

[BenRoethig]

Or should Apple drop Jobs????

That's the 65 million dollar question. Steve Jobs is a visionary, but he's also one that you hope his eccentricities help you more than they hurt you.

[Object-X]

Ok, so you've pounded your point into our heads so many times. Could you please cite some examples of how Microsoft's is going to be driven it into oblivion? Are they just sitting on their hands? Does their strategy suck?

Microsoft does sit on $30 billion (or was it more?) in cash reserves. Will that disappear along with Microsft?

And if Microsoft does disappear, who will be the major OS player in the business segment? Banks, insurance companies, real estate, investment bankers, traders, and even the public sector?

And let's assume Apple's stock falls to $10-15. Will you still be gung ho on Apples capitalization on the digital lifestyle?

Pretty scary looking chart if you ask me, huh?

http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/charts/big.chart?symb=aapl&compidx=aaaaa%3A0&ma=3&maval=50%2C200&uf=0&lf=1&lf2=0&lf3=0&type=1&size=2&state=15&sid=609&style=350&time=8&freq=1&comp=NO%5FSYMBOL%5FCHOSEN&nosettings=1&rand=9148&mocktick=1

Ok, I don't understand stocks and all that so here is some sane commentary on Apple valuation. These guys haven't always been favorable to Apple's stock situation but what they say sounds fairly straight forward to me.

"Yet that's what happens when you price perfection into a stock. While the company is clearly on track to obliterate Wall Street's expectations for Apple to earn about $1.11 a share this year -- which means the stock is trading for less, perhaps significantly less, than its year-ahead P/E multiple of 34 -- longs shouldn't fret a little pessimism creeping back into the stock. Relish it. That's usually the best way to assure that the next time the company delivers better-than-expected news that the market will behave appropriately." --
Motley Fool (http://www.fool.com/News/mft/2005/mft05041506.htm)

The issue here is "better-than-expected news" which I believe will be forthcoming this year with new product announcements and strategic alliances. The next big thing is video and the cell chip.

Now, as to where this is all headed I would direct you to a facinating analysis of the coming Apple revolution and the demise of Microsoft. Take time to read all Neo's articles listed at the bottom of the page. And after you get through with all his detailed analysis, ask yourelf the question: does Steve Jobs have the vision and intuition to pull it off?



The Future is Apple (http://www.themacmind.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=698&mode=nested&order=0&thold=0)

[duffman9000]

It's amazing how many people are whining because what TS is predicting.
They just got a wrong prediction of Powermacs at NAB. How come now they come up with some new prediction and people are just going crazy about it? Doesn't make any sense. I know TS record is not bad but come on, it's just a rumor.
TS sources are probably under the gun by Apple lawsuits. Anybody who wants to keep their jobs at Apple and want to avoid any lawsuits are not saying anything to TS.
If we don't see any upgrade before WWDC is a good thing, I doubt Steve Jobs is going to deliver his keynote for a pathetic 200mhz update on the Powermac front.
His ego is too big to get booed at his keynote. If indeed Powermacs will be upgrade at WWDC is going to be a major one.

Yeah, so they were wrong in saying that they would be announced at NAB, but they are coming pretty soon. And their record is better than "not bad". They have probably the best record among rumor sites. Not everything comes to pass, hence the "rumor" designation.
People are still in denial that THERE ARE NO NEW POWERMACS YET. The specs are exactly what Apple would do if NO NEW CPU'S ARE READY.
Stevie boy must be livid right now.

[rockthecasbah]

That's the 65 million dollar question. Steve Jobs is a visionary, but he's also one that you hope his eccentricities help you more than they hurt you.
Here's the 65 million dollar response. Removing Steve Jobs is removing the heart of Apple. Whether you like to admit it or not, and despite his flaws, Jobs is the glue that holds Apple together. As someone mentioned before, he saved Apple after being fired once. Kill Jobs and you kill Apple, plain and simple.

[duffman9000]

That's the 65 million dollar question. Steve Jobs is a visionary, but he's also one that you hope his eccentricities help you more than they hurt you.

That's why people wear tin-foiled hats when reading anything Apple. Gotta deflect that RDF.

[neilw]

Hmm, I now officially predict that this will be a short-lived revision, but not *that* short-lived, with 970MP-based systems to be introduced at Paris Expo. I don't see a new line of super-pro Macs at WWDC.

When the 970MP *does* come out, I would sure love for Apple to take the opportunity to introduce a reduced-form factor tower, with either a 970GX on the low end or a single 970MP on the high end. If they eliminate the need for two CPUs, the box can get a heck of a lot smaller. This would be a fantastic system.

Of course, they'll still need to keep the big monster cases for the quad-core systems. But really, won't they need something in between the single-core iMac and the quad-core PowerMac? I don't see a dual-core iMac unless the power numbers for the MP are *really* great. More likely a GX at 2.5-3 Ghz.

In any case, this revision will be dependent on price reductions to keep the masses calm (not necessarily happy).

[crpchristian]

Hmmmm....might not this announcement be a better indicator of whether or not dual-core PowerMacs are on the horizon?

http://www.macworld.com/news/2005/04/18/lightwave/index.php

As one of the posters points out, Lightwave is a cross-platform application, and this could merely be in anticipation of Intel's and AMD's soon-to-be dual-core processors. But I've got a feeling these guys know something the rest of us don't. ;)

Possible good mac news, true...HOPEFULLY true (especially considering they say its getting released in a few days). However, they are also developing a 64bit version, a mac 64bit version...no (they say its more work and doing x86 first (not $$ justifyable i say ;) ). So lets just keep the fingers crossed. Man i hope they realease a beast tomorrow.... actually.. i just hope there is SOME update tomorrow..or new

[iGary]

Holy cow, we need some clarity and brevity here.

1. Think Secret blew the Panther release.
2. Think Secret blew the iPod mini release.
3. Think Secret has been blowing a lot of stuff lately.

While I do not think we'll see dual-cores (and yes, it dissapoints me as an Apple fan), if you think the company is headed for oblivion, you need to sell your machine and go get a Dell because you're thinking with Windows-user mentality. Get the foil hat option while you are at it.

I'd like to see the PowerMacs up there a bit, and this is dissapointing if it is true.

I do remember back in 1999 when the rumor mills said the new G4 PM would not be avilable untill early 2000. Jobs unveiled it in late summer.

Don't give up hope yet.

I think this is more a case of Apple fans egos being bruised by AMD and Intel's latest processor releases with Apple not having anything to counter them.

[ncoffey]

I respectfully disagree. Microsoft is dying. A tremendous paradigm shift is about to take place in the computer world and Apple, IBM, Sony, Sun, and others are pushing it. This shift is going to happen so fast you won't even beleive it. Microsoft can't keep up. They are still doing things the way they did 20 years ago and that model is about to collapse.
<SNIP>

I would like to think this shift will happen as well, but the problem is that Microsoft has a very tight grip on a lot of the business world PC market and that is not about to let up. What I can see happening is home PCs being replaced with more generalized media centers. A TV with a full HD resolution (1920x1200 or whatever it is, I'm not sure that's the exact number) paired with a DVD/blu-ray playing computer that was relatively small, had a huge hard drive, and a very fast internet connection allowing TV show downloads on demand (movies if the connection was 10 or 100 times DSL i guess), could get huge market penetration. Something like this paired with a decent web browser and a wireless keyboard and mouse could even replace many home user's PCs. The device would of course have to be cheapish and have a dead simple UI. (Think: Start menu is way too complicated)

Now, this "SuperMediaCenter", or SMC, is a great idea and I'm sure many people would love the idea, so what's the problem? Connection speeds, hard drive sizes, and the fact that full HD is not quite there yet.

1. To download a 10 gig movie, at even 0.3 megabytes per second would take 30,000 seconds, or about 8 hours. (Yeah It's a gross approximation) This is actually twice the speed many people have and it's not always going to be top speed, so the range for normal cable/DSL users would be probably something like 6-24 hours, depending on local conditions. This is unacceptably slow, as they can go rent a movie in a half hour. If speeds were ramped up to say, 3 megabytes per second, and the download time was roughly an hour, then the movie could basically be watched on the fly as it came in (even with a few minutes of lag time to cache ahead a bit). Now we're talking. This could be nothing short of total video on demand, and with a limitless library people would probably be a damn lot happier about handing over a pile of cash every month because they could watch anything ever made that still exists on a DVD somewhere. Still, these speeds are 20 times faster than most people have now and so the tech is a ways away.

2. A nice starting point for a good SMC would be about 1TB. At that point one could probably store a good few television shows and movies and not have to worry too much about running out of space every day. Yes it does limit you to about 50-100 movies depending on length and quality but if the company you have the service with has a record of all the movies you "own" then you can download them at a whim. (Although you would have to wait a while) This may be a problem for bandwidth costs for providers however and so a subscription model is far more likely to work with this kind of service, a la cable. With that then maybe 400 gigs would be an adequate starting point, but the lower you go the quicker the average user is going to get annoyed at the fact that he/she can only store a few HD movies at a time.

3. People may replace their computers with a TV that has 1200 lines of vertical resolution but are very unlikely to do so with one that has 480 lines. There just isn't enough room to read a web page at that size. Yes HDTVs are out there but it's still going to take a couple of years before the full resolution ones are in tons of houses.


Now, changing how things are done in the business world is probably even more difficult than this. Bureaucrats, managers, and other people who like to play it safe will chose Windows and Office every time because that's what everyone uses and there is minimal risk involved. Most of my comments on this would be from the point of view of someone who learned TeX before he ever saw Word and so he's just never really understood the draw to a WYSIWYG word processor, so I'll refrain from them. The business world will change slowly, but having a standard that everyone uses is very important to them and since it happens to be Windows/Office right now it will take a long time to change. I'm not even sure it'll change for the better though. I could come up with far better programs than exist in Office but the problem is they would be better for ME, not for the average Joe blow who has never written a line of code in his life, or even seen a command line. These programs actually basically already exists in various forms and while they could probably use a bit of work in the UI department, it's not a big deal. Anyway, I don't personally see a way out of the Windows/Office combo.

As far as the gaming world goes there are two tracks of thought. One is the console based approach where everyone has the same hardware which is updated every few years, and the other is where there is much more variation in hardware and things are updated once or twice a year. I personally like the console approach much better because it makes things better for everyone, but for the PC based approach, Microsoft again wins hands down. This could change much faster than the business world would change, but it is strictly hardware and software dependent. If there were titles for a technically superior system made by another company, gamers would buy them. It's pretty much that simple. This however, is unlikely to change any time soon.

Final note: I think this is the longest, most useless, and off topic post I've ever made to a forum. I guess I was inspired by the other posts above.

[duffman9000]

Holy cow, we need some clarity and brevity here.

1. Think Secret blew the Panther release.
2. Think Secret blew the iPod mini release.
3. Think Secret has been blowing a lot of stuff lately.

While I do not think we'll see dual-cores (and yes, it dissapoints me as an Apple fan), if you think the company is headed for oblivion, you need to sell your machine and go get a Dell because you're thinking with Windows-user mentality. Get the foil hat option while you are at it.

I'd like to see the PowerMacs up there a bit, and this is dissapointing if it is true.

I do remember back in 1999 when the rumor mills said the new G4 PM would not be avilable untill early 2000. Jobs unveiled it in late summer.

Don't give up hope yet.

I think this is more a case of Apple fans egos being bruised by AMD and Intel's latest processor releases with Apple not having anything to counter them.

My point was it's not the end of the world people. I had my tin foil hat on when stevie boy talked about 3GHz by next summer. I was laughing for months! People forget that the OS is what makes Apple attractive.
If the faithful survived years with G4's they'll survive this drought.
TS has been on a roll.

[Object-X]

Maybe in the "Bizzaro Word"

It is very very hard to take a monopoly down. Especially when the government has decided to leave them alone. Until an alternative operating system can compete against them in the X86 world they will continue to dominate. Of course it isn't just the OS, it's the Apps and developers too.
Say what you want but anyone who develops software for a living will tell you Microsoft has built the easiest to use and most powerful development suite ever. Visual studio is a dream to use. It's debuggers are awesome.
Apple's Xcode Tools are a joke in comparison.

That may be true in a traditional sense, but this is technology and the rules are much different. Technology changes very very fast; and once dominate players are quickly marginalized and overtaken. Think Novell. I expect basically the same thing is going to happen to Microsoft. They are too comfortable in their "monopoly" position and they are not innovating. Steve Jobs and Apple are about to change the rules and Microsoft is going to be a day late and a few billion short. They will have to break up and refocus. Computers and their OSs are going to still be around, but it's not where the money is going to be, it's going to be internet services. Microsoft knows this, but I'm not impressed with their offerings in this regard, are you? Why do you think iPods and iTunes are kicking their ass? It's the integration and package as a whole and Apple does it right, Microsoft has never done it right; they only copy others and not all that well either. Apple innovated and now the lumbering juggarnaut that is Microsoft can't keep up. Good riddance. Their proprietary nature sucks and their stupid browser makes my life as a web developer a living hell. Does Microsoft care? No. They suck and everyone knows it. I wish they would die sooner or support open standards and compete like everyone else. Oh, competition....that's a dirty word to them and they're about to pay the price. Couldn't happen to a better company.

[wrldwzrd89]

That may be true in a traditional sense, but this is technology and the rules are much different. Technology changes very very fast; and once dominate players are quickly marginalized and overtaken. Think Novell. I expect basically the same thing is going to happen to Microsoft. They are too comfortable in their "monopoly" position and they are not innovating. Steve Jobs and Apple are about to change the rules and Microsoft is going to be a day late and a few billion short. They will have to break up and refocus. Computers and their OSs are going to still be around, but it's not where the money is going to be, it's going to be internet services. Microsoft knows this, but I'm not impressed with their offerings in this regard, are you? Why do you think iPods and iTunes are kicking their ass? It's the integration and package as a whole and Apple does it right, Microsoft has never done it right; they only copy others and not all that well either. Apple innovated and now the lumbering juggarnaut that is Microsoft can't keep up. Good riddance. Their proprietary nature sucks and their stupid browser makes my life as a web developer a living hell. Does Microsoft care? No. They suck and everyone knows it. I wish they would die sooner or support open standards and compete like everyone else. Oh, competition....that's a dirty word to them and they're about to pay the price. Couldn't happen to a better company.
Agreed - that doesn't stop MS from trying to buy their way out of the situation they're about to get themselves in, though.

This is off-topic anyway. Object-X, why don't you start a new thread to continue this, admittedly, very interesting discussion elsewhere?

IBM is determined if nothing else. They've hit similar roadblocks before, and they've managed to find a way through. I'm confident that IBM will get past this obstacle, too (getting dual-core/other enhancements into the PowerPC line).

[Cooknn]

Let me elaborate. Quicktime is going to be the basis of video content on computers, TVs, cell phones, ect. I know it' only been a "player" but it's about to become the Video application of choice that will change everything.I dig your thought process :D I use Quicktime every day to create 360° virtual tours for real estate (sig). It's definitely changing my bank account ;)

Besides shooting real estate, I enjoy capturing vacations and sporting events with my camcorder. Isn't it wild how computer technology has evolved to include television / home entertainment? Hi-Def camcorders will soon have us craving TB's of storage with as much under the hood as Apple can give us. Anyone who's worked with video knows, and there are more joining that group every day. The power users are no longer gamers - they are video editors. Let's hope the rumors of new power desktops (http://macosrumors.com/20050417.php) are true. OS X is too good to get left behind because Apple can't keep the hardware competitive :(

[rockthecasbah]

It's the integration and package as a whole and Apple does it right, Microsoft has never done it right; they only copy others and not all that well either.
Well Microsoft still must be doing something right, last I checked they still were killing us in the stats. Sadly I cannot see Tiger by itself starting a huge power switch from Microsoft to Apple. I can however see Apple steadily increasing and eventually overtake Microsoft if they get their hardware act together :rolleyes:

[iGary]

My point was it's not the end of the world people. I had my tin foil hat on when stevie boy talked about 3GHz by next summer. I was laughing for months! People forget that the OS is what makes Apple attractive.
If the faithful survived years with G4's they'll survive this drought.
TS has been on a roll.

I agree...and I know tons of people who have dual 2.0's and NEVER use half of the power those machines give.

The fact is most people whining and complaining here:

1. Are not even in the market.
2. Have no use for the dual core technology anyway.

Maybe I'm jaded. As everyone knows I'm only looking for a sub-2000 dual 2.0.

We'll just have to wait.

[iGary]

Originally Posted by Val-kyrie

Or should Apple drop Jobs????

Oh give me a break. IBM's processor problems are somehow Steve's fault?

Apple would be DEAD had they not bought NeXT and brought Steve back. Period.

*giant rolling eye*

[Lacero]

99% of you complainers about a 3GHz G5 will likely not even buy it if and when it is introduced. :rolleyes:

[iGary]

99% of you complainers about a 3GHz G5 will likely not even buy it if and when it is introduced. :rolleyes:

Exactly.

Look, look....Wintel are beating our pants off. :rolleyes:

[duffman9000]

I agree...and I know tons of people who have dual 2.0's and NEVER use half of the power those machines give.

The fact is most people whining and complaining here:

1. Are not even in the market.
2. Have no use for the dual core technology anyway.

Maybe I'm jaded. As everyone knows I'm only looking for a sub-2000 dual 2.0.

We'll just have to wait.

I'm waiting for new hardware too. The power of a powerbook with the toughness of an ibook. Aint never going to happen unless i spray paint myself.

[wrldwzrd89]

99% of you complainers about a 3GHz G5 will likely not even buy it if and when it is introduced. :rolleyes:
I'm not complaining, and my next Mac will be a PowerMac (that is, I'd be in the market for one of these if it was time for me to replace the Mac I've got). If nothing else, the news of a possible PowerMac update, minor though it may be, is a sign that Apple hasn't completely stagnated.

[aafuss1]

I think the next update wouldn't feature PCI Express-because Final Cut Studio requires a AGP graphics card (which is software that you may run on a G5). Dual-layer capable SuperDrives would be welcome as is price cuts.

[guasmoa]

Well, not sure if any of you have checked this out, but this link was posted from the AppleInside Forum.

Special Apple Event at NAB APR 20 (http://everythingapple.blogspot.com/2005/04/special-apple-event-at-nab-on-april.html)

Check it, it looks like there is a special Tiger/Hardware session from Apple on April 20.

Guess we'll have to wait and see what comes, eh?

[w_parietti22]

I was talking to my friend today and he said something like this:

With these recent lawsuits between Apple and Think Secret do you think that just maybe that Apple lied to Think Secret?

I mean I really think that might be possible!

There's Hope!

-W

PS- Sorry if this has already been posted... I haven't read all the posts (yet :) )

[Bubbasteve]

99% of you complainers about a 3GHz G5 will likely not even buy it if and when it is introduced. :rolleyes:

True, but it would sure be nice to have :rolleyes:

[Object-X]

Now, changing how things are done in the business world is probably even more difficult than this. Bureaucrats, managers, and other people who like to play it safe will chose Windows and Office every time because that's what everyone uses and there is minimal risk involved. Most of my comments on this would be from the point of view of someone who learned TeX before he ever saw Word and so he's just never really understood the draw to a WYSIWYG word processor, so I'll refrain from them. The business world will change slowly, but having a standard that everyone uses is very important to them and since it happens to be Windows/Office right now it will take a long time to change. I'm not even sure it'll change for the better though. I could come up with far better programs than exist in Office but the problem is they would be better for ME, not for the average Joe blow who has never written a line of code in his life, or even seen a command line. These programs actually basically already exists in various forms and while they could probably use a bit of work in the UI department, it's not a big deal. Anyway, I don't personally see a way out of the Windows/Office combo.

As far as the gaming world goes there are two tracks of thought. One is the console based approach where everyone has the same hardware which is updated every few years, and the other is where there is much more variation in hardware and things are updated once or twice a year. I personally like the console approach much better because it makes things better for everyone, but for the PC based approach, Microsoft again wins hands down. This could change much faster than the business world would change, but it is strictly hardware and software dependent. If there were titles for a technically superior system made by another company, gamers would buy them. It's pretty much that simple. This however, is unlikely to change any time soon.

Final note: I think this is the longest, most useless, and off topic post I've ever made to a forum. I guess I was inspired by the other posts above.

Wow, and I thought my posts were long. ;)

True the buisness world changes slowely, but Office is not the real issue with business. If it were only Word, Excel, and Outlook there are other alternatives. Most companies run proprietary software that was written years ago and would cost a small fortune to update. This inertia will keep Windows around for years to come, but their market/mindshare is about to nose dive. They company I work for would drop Windows if were not for an old COBOL application that runs on an old compiler and would prove diffecult to port. They have already inquired about what it would take and cost to switch to Linux or even OS X. They clearly want too, wether they have the nerve or money to do it is the issue. But Office has no where to go and OpenOffice/StarOffice is getting better all the time. Linux also is improving rapidly; Novell thinks so. IBM is all about middleware and software as a service could make Windows irrelevant. Why do think Microsoft has been pushing thier proprietary standards so aggresively? They know this will make Windows irrrelevant and if they aren't controlling the standards they are history. Guess what? They are history.

As far as gaming is concerned, the Xbox is great, but it's not perfect. So the next gen Xbox will be amazing right? Sure, but so will the Playstation. Sony is right their to compete with them and they need an edge with integrating into the digital home. Enter Apple. Xbox will be great for games, but using it for digital content management will suck and we all know it. Again, people will see how superior the PS is running Apple software and the game is over. Heh, i made a funny. :)

Ok, back to the topic. So, the next workstations from Apple will have an integrated Cell chip so they can be used to write software for said Playstation and other such Cell based devices. If a minor update happens next week it's only to buy time for the next generation Powermacs based on this Cell chip and with multi-cores to come out; which I think they will be announced at the Developers conference.

Ok, I feel better now.

[PeterQVenkman]

Yep. I'm with you. Stop complaining people. Ask my friends and family. I have been waiting for Apple to update PERIOD. No way I was buying a year old powermac for full price.

Any news is good news. Seeing as how I just started doing reall heavy work with DVD SP, I am glad to see dual layer burners in there.

2.3. 2.5. I don't care. Middle powermac. Mine. As soon as they announce I am ordering.

[dicklacara]

Well, not sure if any of you have checked this out, but this link was posted from the AppleInside Forum.

Special Apple Event at NAB APR 20 (http://everythingapple.blogspot.com/2005/04/special-apple-event-at-nab-on-april.html)

Check it, it looks like there is a special Tiger/Hardware session from Apple on April 20.

Guess we'll have to wait and see what comes, eh?

2 1/2 hours... ummmm wonder what that's all about :)

[iGary]

Hmmm...looks like I'm buying a 23" display now, and a PM in the fall. :cool:

[animefan_1]

Since mostly everyone is so upset about a RUMOR from TS, I thought I'd point attention to a more positive rumor:

Key point: "We think the next PowerMacs will also support DDR2-533 memory in addition to PCI Express x16 graphics (Probably ATi Radeon X850 in the high end, and a low-cost nVIDIA PCI-E card in the other models)."

They also think dual-cores are coming soon.


http://www.macosrumors.com/20050417.php

Yes, I know about this source, but I'd rather get excited about an optimistic rumor rather than TS's depressing rumor.

[daveL]

or just go numeric...

Apple did record quarter sales... 3.85 billion...

Microsoft in its quarter reported 28.5 billion...
Don't know what you're smoking, but MS ANNUAL revenue for the fiscal year ending June 30, 2004 was US$ 36.8B:

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=MSFT&annual

Furthermore, while still very high, MS profit has declined for the last 3 years.

[PeterQVenkman]

So the next gen Xbox will be amazing right? Sure, but so will the Playstation. Sony is right their to compete with them and they need an edge with integrating into the digital home. Enter Apple. Xbox will be great for games, but using it for digital content management will suck and we all know it. Again, people will see how superior the PS is running Apple software and the game is over. Heh, i made a funny. :)

If you have followed the gaming industry as much as I have, I think in the video game world Microsoft is behaving like Apple. They did all the things right that Sony did wrong past generation (excluding Japan, of course).

THe Xbox blew the PS2 out of the water- software, hardware, online infrstructure, you name it.

In my opinion, Microsoft IS Apple in the video game world, and Sony is the Microsoft. Did that make sense?

And Nintendo? Well, next gen they will be Linux. :p

[Object-X]

Agreed - that doesn't stop MS from trying to buy their way out of the situation they're about to get themselves in, though.

This is off-topic anyway. Object-X, why don't you start a new thread to continue this, admittedly, very interesting discussion elsewhere?

IBM is determined if nothing else. They've hit similar roadblocks before, and they've managed to find a way through. I'm confident that IBM will get past this obstacle, too (getting dual-core/other enhancements into the PowerPC line).

Sorry about the topic. This all started with my claim that the next Powermac workstation would integrate the Cell chip, and then everyone started demanding I support my facts all.
:o

[duffman9000]

Since mostly everyone is so upset about a RUMOR from TS, I thought I'd point attention to a more positive rumor:

Key point: "We think the next PowerMacs will also support DDR2-533 memory in addition to PCI Express x16 graphics (Probably ATi Radeon X850 in the high end, and a low-cost nVIDIA PCI-E card in the other models)."

They also think dual-cores are coming soon.


http://www.macosrumors.com/20050417.php

Yes, I know about this source, but I'd rather get excited about an optimistic rumor rather than TS's depressing rumor.

OMFG!!!!!!!!!!
I wouldn't call anything from those creeps "optimistic". They've been wrong about a million times. Yes, i know that's technically impossible, but they suck that bad.

[Rower_CPU]

TS might be intentionally releasing bogus info to diminish their positive track record and/or to get back at Apple by upsetting the rumor-followers with gloom and doom reports. Who knows.

Regardless of what they release, I'm putting in a rec at work for the highest end machine as soon as it's announced.

[tazznb]

Best software and the weakest hardware whats new? not a thing. Wish they would ship a OSX for Pcs.

I'm with you. At least they have REAL HARDWARE (but crappy software).

[dicklacara]

I would like to think this shift will happen as well, but the problem is that Microsoft has a very tight grip on a lot of the business world PC market and that is not about to let up. ..

snip

Final note: I think this is the longest, most useless, and off topic post I've ever made to a forum. I guess I was inspired by the other posts above.

What object-x, Neo or whatever is saying....

It doesn't matter what 98% of the installed base is using (will buy next)

There is a new market coming... one that will create new users/buyers...

MS has the monopoly on the railoads... fine!

... but the railroads won't get you or me where we want to go!

Someone(s) gonna' be left behind!

P.S. Best post you've ever written!

[calyxman]

Well I don't doubt that Jobs is a visionary but at the same time I think a little too much kool-aid is being passed around. I know it sounds anecdotal, but I don't see signs of people itching to abandon ship and switch to Apple.

I mean, even if MS screwed up with Longhorn, they're still going to be around. Let's not even talk about Win 95/98/ME. The picture wasn't pretty, but hey the dust has settled and MS is still chugging away.

Also, you know I was only a young chum back then but during the 80s Apple was rocking, it's stock was soaring like it had recently, and sooner or later they took a big fall. Could be Deja Vu, we'll see.

[Cooknn]

As I read all this I keep thinking of Osarda's post in the other PM Spec thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=1386626#post1386626) as well as the Special Apple event at NAB on April 20th (http://everythingapple.blogspot.com/2005/04/special-apple-event-at-nab-on-april.html). Apple may still pull a rabbit out of a hat before this week is over :D

[animefan_1]

TS might be intentionally releasing bogus info to diminish their positive track record and/or to get back at Apple by upsetting the rumor-followers with gloom and doom reports. Who knows...

I don't know how publishing fake rumors would hurt Apple (aside from stupid analysts who listen to rumors). If Apple were to put out a machine that's better than what TS rumored, then TS loses (some) credibility and Apple gains praise. Win-win...for Apple.

[calyxman]

What object-x, Neo or whatever is saying....

It doesn't matter what 98% of the installed base is using (will buy next)

There is a new market coming... one that will create new users/buyers...

MS has the monopoly on the railoads... fine!

... but the railroads won't get you or me where we want to go!

Someone(s) gonna' be left behind!

P.S. Best post you've ever written!

Well the least you could say is Apple failed to make a significant impact in the personal computer market and is looking down other avenues for new opportunities.

I think most people in here have a gripe with the pathetic progress Apple has been making with their Power line of products. That's why many of us won't let this subject go. :p

[dicklacara]

As I read all this I keep thinking of Osarda's post in the other PM Spec thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=1386626#post1386626) as well as the Special Apple event at NAB on April 20th (http://everythingapple.blogspot.com/2005/04/special-apple-event-at-nab-on-april.html). Apple may still pull a rabbit out of a hat before this week is over :D
I just registered!

Guess I'll be winging my way into McCarran on the way to the LVCC...

[Devie]

I think this is good news as there should be price drops.
Price drops= me get powermac over iMac :D. But if they dont drop then I will be pissed... I expect to be able to get the bottem line PM in Dual for the same price as the current Single 1.8.

[AliensAreFuzzy]

I bet Apple is using disinformation to find the leak. Think about it this way, give the underlings all different PowerMac configs that are "going" to be released, see which one ends up on the internet, and BAM!, you've narrowed down the number of people that the leak could be.
I hope I'm right, for Apple's sake.

[dicklacara]

Well the least you could say is Apple failed to make a significant impact in the personal computer market and is looking down other avenues for new opportunities.

I think most people in here have a gripe with the pathetic progress Apple has been making with their Power line of products. That's why many of us won't let this subject go. :p

Where were you in 1976-1984?

I was in Silicon Vally.

Apple created the personal computer market (as we know it) with the Apple ][ (bought mine in 1978 $1699 point something MHz 6502 4KB (as in thousand Bytes) RAM cassette tape I/O.

SJ won't forget the personal computer-- be happy, you're gonna get a PM Pro!

[Prom1]

No worries about no dual-core; this just allows for IBM & Apple to announce a Dual-Core ; a proper unit I might add; in June/July and with significant improvements. Timing just wasnt right; and I'm sure we'll all be glad when the dual core G5 trounces the Intel/AMD dual-core concerto. ;) :p

[AidenShaw]

Apple: $3000 Max, Two 2.7GHz Processors in a system, 1.35GHz FSB per processor

Dell: $3000, Two 3.2GHz SMT enabled cores in a system, shared 1066MHz FSB.

Apple: DDR 400 MHz dual channel (PC3200)

Dell: DDR2 533 MHz dual channel (PC4200)


So, Apple is using an 800 MHz memory bus, and Dell a 1066 MHz.

What's the point in bragging about an FSB that is sitting idle waiting for 800 MHz memory?

(ps: and the 2.7 might have a 900 MHz FSB - which would be just as fast at waiting for 800 MHz memory :p )

[Rower_CPU]

I don't know how publishing fake rumors would hurt Apple (aside from stupid analysts who listen to rumors). If Apple were to put out a machine that's better than what TS rumored, then TS loses (some) credibility and Apple gains praise. Win-win...for Apple.

True. I guess I was thinking more along the lines of the typical "buy the rumor, sell the news" mentality - mainstream news has picked up on TS' reports in the past and Apple (allegedly) under-delivering on hardware could cause some folks to sell.

Again, it's nothing but conjecture, but hey, on a day when Adobe announces they're buying Macromedia why not throw out conventional wisdom? ;)

[Mav451]

Apple: DDR 400 MHz dual channel (PC3200)

Dell: DDR2 533 MHz dual channel (PC4200)


So, Apple is using an 800 MHz memory bus, and Dell a 1066 MHz.

What's the point in bragging about an FSB that is sitting idle waiting for 800 MHz memory?

(ps: and the 2.7 might have a 900 MHz FSB - which would be just as fast at waiting for 800 MHz memory :p )

This is a very good point your are bringing up here. Just cuz you have a fast CPU doesn't mean its running as optimal as it could be. Athlon XP? It was stuck with a measly 400Mhz FSB. On the other hand, A64 opened that up to "800FSB", if you will. With no Northbridge to speak with, memory bandwidth literally equals HTT speed (which at its introduction was 800Mhz).

You also forgot one thing, however. Latencies. Efficiency. Both things that everything Intel (but the Pentium-M) lack. Even with a massive 1066Mhz FSB, the EE barely improves.

http://anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2261&p=3

Massive memory bandwidth means nothing if you got Intel's craptacular long pipelines and low IPC.

[calyxman]

Ok fine, I'll let you win on the issue of Apple hitting it big outside the PC market. If that's the case, then please Apple, once and for all, open the license to the OS and let us install it on our own custom built machines.... please :)?

BTW, this is off topic but I'm watching the Phoenix Suns smash the Denver Nuggets and the score at half-time is 75-57. Go Phoenix! :cool:

[dongmin]

1. PLEASE PLEASE stop all this talk of Apple leaking "disinformation" to Thinksecret. That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard of. Why would they bother? What would they gain other than cheap thrills from watching a bunch of Macheads with too much time on their hands ranting on Macrumors? Plus, from what little I know about security laws, it's illegal for Apple to spread false information about what it may or may not do.

2. This boutique CPU strategy is clearly not working for Apple and IBM. IBM doesn't seem to have a whole lot of incentive to get this right for Apple. Apple simply is not a big enough customer for them to develop a custom processor. (Yes, I know the 970s are used in IBM's server lines, but it's a drop in the bucket for them.) It was the same case with Motorola; they were far more interested in marketing the G4 for the embedded market than they were for Macs. I don't see why it should be any different with IBM.

3. So Apple has two choices: bring OS X on x86 or make the Cell work for OS X. The Cell is an unproven processor, but at least it has several other customers with large demand. Sure, the transition will be rough. But I really see no other alternative--I just don't have any faith in the G4/G5 line.

[Rocketman]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

ThinkSecret adds (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0504g5notes.html) to their previous report (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2005/04/20050414065132.shtml) on upcoming PowerMac G5s.

According to the rumor site, the innards of the PowerMacs will not be dramatically improved. No PCI-X 2.0 or PCI Express slots. No Blue-Ray support, and only single-core PowerPC 970FX processors -- and not the 970MP processors that has been long hoped for.

ThinkSecret places PowerMac, eMac and iMac updates in the next "two weeks".

Okay.

So does that mean these features will arive in a long awaited "workstation class" Mac?

Or YA X-serve"?

Rocketman

[Rocketman]

But I really see no other alternative--I just don't have any faith in the G4/G5 line.

Are you delusional? Sales are wayyyy up in a down market.

Rocketman

[gate]

Maybe it doesn't mean anything but I doubt it:

"NewTek today announced the forthcoming release of the free 8.3 update to LightWave 3D. The company said it has optimized the software for multi-core processor systems. Following NewTek’s 64-bit beta announcement, LightWave 3D is "leading the industry again" as "the first professional 3D graphics application to provide optimization and support for multi-core technology." Multi-core processor technology provides the power of two processors on a single chip. The release will be available to registered owners of LightWave as a free download within a few days."

Why would they do that if it's not coming soon?

[iriejedi]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

ThinkSecret adds (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0504g5notes.html) to their previous report (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2005/04/20050414065132.shtml) on upcoming PowerMac G5s.

According to the rumor site, the innards of the PowerMacs will not be dramatically improved. No PCI-X 2.0 or PCI Express slots. No Blue-Ray support, and only single-core PowerPC 970FX processors -- and not the 970MP processors that has been long hoped for.

ThinkSecret places PowerMac, eMac and iMac updates in the next "two weeks".


Right On! my 2.5 will still be near the high end of Apple machines!

Actually this sucks cause I want to brag about how much better are computers are over a win tel box with truth/reality AND with some processor #s

[vtprinz]

1. PLEASE PLEASE stop all this talk of Apple leaking "disinformation" to Thinksecret. That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard of. Why would they bother? What would they gain other than cheap thrills from watching a bunch of Macheads with too much time on their hands ranting on Macrumors? Plus, from what little I know about security laws, it's illegal for Apple to spread false information about what it may or may not do.



I second this! At the VERY LEAST, TS might have lost some of their sources in the lawsuit, thus leading to a slightly greater possibility that the rumor will turn out to be false. BUT PLEASE STOP WITH THIS CONSPIRACY ************!

If Apple doesn't like what TS finds out and reports, they sue them and get paid. That's all there is to it.

[Beck446]

The "misinformation" theory is absolutely ridiculous. People, please!

Here are a couple of facts:

1. ThinkSecret has been the BEST rumor producer in the last couple of years. Anyone who wants to ridicule the fact that they predicted a few more software products at NAB than were release are being fools. They predicted a software release! ThinkSecret is so far ahead of the other rumor sites it is absurd. They are basically the only source of rumors that are worth a damn. MacOSRumors is complete trash. I could write that nonsense.

2. The idea of Apple spreading false information is ridiculous as well. First of all, if Apple could smoke out the source of ThinkSecret's info, they haven't yet. Second, Apple would have to spread *different* disinformation to different groups of people in order to smoke anyone out. Third, it would be a securities law violation if Apple got caught. This is also why Apple and Thinksecret most assuredly didn't make a legal settlement that obligates one party to propulgate lies! Oh my Gosh, that is ridonkulous. Fourth, the day Apple finds out who the leak is they would fire him/her. Think about it. Do you really think Apple would, in effect, hold them hostage and force them to spread false rumors? Think about it. Jobs would do a little yelling and he'd be gone. End of story.

3. That being said, ThinkSecret isn't right about everything. But they aren't wrong because of some Apple-conspiracy. They are just wrong sometimes. Incomplete information. The best hope right now is that TS got some of the details wrong. But, like I pointed out in #1, that is less likely that most of you would like to believe.

4. The Microsoft conversation is dumb.

[BWhaler]

10 months and that's the best PowerMac update they could come up with? Unbelievably disappointing

You are right on the money. I am so glad I didn't sell my 2.5 Powermac for "something better."