Apple Shareholders Meeting 2005

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

News.com reports (http://news.com.com/Jobs+defends+Apples+record+on+environment/2100-1041_3-5680152.html?tag=nefd.top) on Apple's annual shareholder meeting yesterday.

Environmental issues took center stage with protests (http://www.macworld.com/news/2005/04/21/shareholders/index.php) regarding Apple's recycling policies which Jobs defended.

Beyond this there were the usual range of questions on future products and suggestions for Apple to better market the Mac against Windows based computers.

[G.Kirby]

They also had a pop at the tiny bit of lead in the iPod. It is a bit of a back handed compliment as one of the echo warriors was quoted as saying some thing like - "we're going after the iPod because it is the IT device of the moment."

Well it has worked for them as they have got some press, even if their facts are a bit pie in the sky.

[chubad]

He did a good job exposing the tree huggers half truths and msinformation. Way to go Steve!

[Windowlicker]

I don't get this recycling stuff.. Who would even want to trash a mac?!? there's always someone who will want it.

[ASP272]

Apple can recycle their Macs at my house! :D

[Sun Baked]

Heck is all Apple has to do is agree to take any computer dropped off at a store... then all they have to do is donate the machines to places like.

www.cristina.org

Edit: just because it's an old useless dust collector to you, doesn't mean it's useless to somebody who cannot afford a computer.

[JGowan]

I love it that Steve called Apple being singled out "Bulls**t" -- it's probably some other industry people who want to cause Apple some bad publicity right before Tiger and other announcements of cool stuff.

[G.Kirby]

Apple can't be held responsible for what a comsumer does with any old macs. The comsumer has a responsibility to despose of their waste in a correct and proper manner. In education now we can not put ANY IT waste in a normal bin. Everything has to be desposed off correctly.

I do think it is cool that Apple is trying to educate its comsumers in this matter. :)

[G.Kirby]

I wonder if Domino's Pizza has been critisised for not collecting empty pizza boxes. :rolleyes:

[darkwing]

I love it that Steve called Apple being singled out "Bulls**t" -- it's probably some other industry people who want to cause Apple some bad publicity right before Tiger and other announcements of cool stuff.

The modern environmental movement is really about anti-capitalism than anti-pollution anyway.

Besides, everyone knows the solution to pollution is dilution. Just burn it all! ;)

Steven

[mad jew]

I hate the way the hippies gang up on one company when in reality, it's the whole industry they're unhappy with. They did it here in Australia with petrol (gas) stations when they singled out Mobil and tried to get people to boycott them. It's a pretty common technique. It's a shame they've picked on Apple and not Dell/HP or someone else. :(

[iGary]

Stupid, hippy, non-rational, perfect world environmentalists.
I wish I had so much time on my hands.

I certainly hope they don't produce any trash themselves, don't poop or pee, don't drive a car or use anything that comes in packaging.

I mean if you're gonna be an environmentalist, go all the way.

Jeebus, I'm environmentally minded, but these people are over the top.

I'm glad someone bought up the topic of marketing against Windows. Apple needs to spend some money educating people.

[SiliconAddict]

Stupid, hippy, non-rational, perfect world environmentalists.


You do realize how unbelievably ironic that sounds coming from a user from the Mac community right? I mean for the love of god Steve, for all intents and purposes, was a hippy at one point.

[tromboneaholic]

We need the environment. I think companies should be pressured to protect it. I guess you kids haven't read about the rape of the environment during the industrial revolution.

I love Apple, by the way. I just love the food I eat, the water I drink, and the air I breathe a little more.

[Lancetx]

You do realize how unbelievably ironic that sounds coming from a user from the Mac community right? I mean for the love of god Steve, for all intents and purposes, was a hippy at one point.

True enough, but I'm sure the majority of the users in the Mac community today (Steve Jobs not withstanding) were definitely not hippies at one time. ;)

[tromboneaholic]

True enough, but I'm sure the majority of the users in the Mac community today (Steve Jobs not withstanding) were definitely not hippies at one time. ;)

How sure are you?

[unknownfairy]

True enough, but I'm sure the majority of the users in the Mac community today (Steve Jobs not withstanding) were definitely not hippies at one time. ;)
Hmm... Define hippy?
I'm a hippy. :D

[iGary]

You do realize how unbelievably ironic that sounds coming from a user from the Mac community right? I mean for the love of god Steve, for all intents and purposes, was a hippy at one point.

Oh, I don't mind hippies, it's the ones I described that get me. What, I have to be a hippy to use my Mac? :rolleyes:

[eric_n_dfw]

We need the environment. I think companies should be pressured to protect it. I guess you kids haven't read about the rape of the environment during the industrial revolution.

I love Apple, by the way. I just love the food I eat, the water I drink, and the air I breathe a little more.Define "pressured".

Apple recycles computers for $30. Isn't your water, food, air, etc. worth $30?

[Sunrunner]

We need the environment. I think companies should be pressured to protect it. I guess you kids haven't read about the rape of the environment during the industrial revolution.

I love Apple, by the way. I just love the food I eat, the water I drink, and the air I breathe a little more.


Ugg, get a life already. :rolleyes: Apple has always had a progressive enviromental policy. These people that want their 15 minutes should go take care of the real enviromental problems, like China.

[eric_n_dfw]

Heck is all Apple has to do is agree to take any computer dropped off at a store... then all they have to do is donate the machines to places like.

www.cristina.org

Edit: just because it's an old useless dust collector to you, doesn't mean it's useless to somebody who cannot afford a computer.
A better solution would be to educate the users about such charities.

[SiliconAddict]

Oh, I don't mind hippies, it's the ones I described that get me. What, I have to be a hippy to use my Mac? :rolleyes:


It doesn't hurt. :D :D

[iGary]

It doesn't hurt. :D :D

Well, I am wearing Birkenstocks today... :cool:

[plasticparadox]

I think it's a good thing that technology companies are being held accountable for their environmental practices.

If some of you were better informed about the growing e-waste problem, you would probably be on the side of the so-called 'tree-huggers'. Just because this stuff isn't in your backyard, doesn't mean it's not there.


Photo journalist Jeroen Bouman gets a rare glimpse inside the illegal Chinese workshops where young teenagers work long hours amid noxious fumes, recycling computers from the US and Europe. The industry has turned four villages in Guiyu, Guangdong province, into toxic waste tips. Drinking water is now brought by lorries from 30 kilometres away.

Large trucks bring containers of hard drives, monitors, servers and other hi-tech cast-offs. Workers break them up, salvage what they can sell and leave the rest on the streets for others to pick through. A crackdown by the Chinese authorities earlier this year closed some of the workshops. I posed as a student to visit the remaining ones. Some owners were very aggressive – others invited me in for tea. These workers are sorting plastic by heating it with a cigarette lighter and sniffing the fumes. They complained of headaches.

A young girl covers her mouth against the stench as she runs past a pile of recently processed circuit boards. The mountains of e-waste are laced with a cocktail of toxic chemicals. According to the Basel Action Network, a pile of 500 computers contains 717kg of lead, 1.36kg of cadmium, 863 grams of chromium and 287 grams of mercury – all poisonous metals. I saw computers with American and European labels in the workshops I visited.

Two boys aged about 13 dip used computer chips into foul-smelling solder - a mixture of lead and tin - to make them look new. I also saw a boy aged about 14, with no respiratory protection, dusting the ink out of an old toner cartridge with an ordinary paintbrush. Toner ink is classed as a possible human carcinogen. Investigators from the Basel Action Network (BAN) in the region have seen villagers burning the coating off cables in open fires – certain plastics are known to release highly toxic dioxins and furans when burnt. Workers with no respiratory protection were also seen swirling computer chips in huge baths of steaming acid to recover tiny amounts of gold.

Girls aged between 17 and 19 sort computer chips. There are about 50 workshops in each village, each employing between 12 and 20 people – although the Chinese press has estimated the number of people employed in the sector to be as high as 100,000. The people I met worked nine hours a day, six days a week and would have had a couple of years of elementary education at most. The BAN investigators said the typical wage was about US$1.50 a day. They photographed small children sorting plastic chippings into different colours.

A cathode ray tube sits by what was previously a drainage ditch. It has now been filled with crushed glass from computer monitors. The glass contains lead oxide, to protect users from potentially harmful X-rays, and is classed as a hazardous waste under the international Basel Convention. Single samples taken by the BAN researchers in the region tested 190 times the World Health Organisation’s safe level for lead, had chromium levels 1338 times the level deemed safe in the US and tin levels 152 times the US threshold. “For money, people have made a mess of this good farming village… Every day villagers inhale this dirty air; their bodies have become weak. Many people have developed respiratory and skin problems. Some people wash vegetables and dishes with the polluted water, and they get stomach sickness,” a 60 year-old resident of the region told them.

The Chinese authorities have clamped down on the e-waste recycling industry in the region, but there were still lots of workshops operating and it is possible that there are other similar areas which have not yet come to light. There is little other employment in Guiyu and villagers are faced with a stark choice - continue working illegally, poisoning their land and damaging their health or try to scratch out another livelihood in their polluted village.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_depth/world/2002/disposable_planet/waste/chinese_workshop/

[Sunrunner]

I don't get this recycling stuff.. Who would even want to trash a mac?!? there's always someone who will want it.

Its one of the hidden values of having a mac, there is a very active market for older macs and Mac as collector items. Compare that with the PC side, where you often cant hardly even give away your old computer.

[Sunrunner]

I think it's a good thing that technology companies are being held accountable for their environmental practices.

If some of you were better informed about the growing e-waste problem, you would probably be on the side of the so-called 'tree-huggers'. Just because this stuff isn't in your backyard, doesn't mean it's not there.

Like I said, the real problem isn't in the US, its in China.

[G.Kirby]

Now, I'm not what I'd class as a hippy and I’m not even remotely religious, but I do have the life philosophy of be cool and groovy to those around you - including your environment. We do need to look after this planet, it is the only one we have which is an obvious statement but people do forget this. It is not just the responsibility of a company to keep the pressure on for domestic recycling. People just need to get off their arse and do it them selves, and if a company is willing to help then all the better.

[eric_n_dfw]

If you read the article, you find that Jobs specificaly denied that Apple sends their computers to be recycled overseas so the horrible news story posted here is irrelivant to this topic. Is it a problem, yes, but not for Apple nor the majority of readers on this forum.

[plasticparadox]

Like I said, the real problem isn't in the US, its in China.

And where is this e-waste sourced from?

[iGary]

They also accused Apple of using prison labor to recycle the computers, to which Jobs responded: "Absolutely not...now some people have accused us of that in with our software."

(Or something like that :D)

[plasticparadox]

If you read the article, you find that Jobs specificaly denied that Apple sends their computers to be recycled overseas so the horrible news story posted here is irrelivant to this topic. Is it a problem, yes, but not for Apple nor the majority of readers on this forum.

Hmm.. I thought someone would bring that up. Yes, Steve did say that, but I did find some articles about Apple computers ending up in China. However, I decided not to quote because most of the stories I found were old (2002) and they could have been sent by parties other than Apple.

[velocityg4]

And where is this e-waste sourced from?
Japan, Taiwan, South Korea and other countries over seas. Why would we spend $20-30 dollars sending computers to China to be disposed of when the ancient machines being destroyed aren't even worth $5.

[G.Kirby]

Just wondering. Has a firearms company ever been held accountable for a killing that was done using one of their weapons? The company would have no control over what the consumer does with the weapon. So how can Apple, HP etc be criticized for its consumer recycling.

If a company doesn’t clean up it industrial waste then throw the book at them, and make it a bloody big book. At one point there were several companies that dumped their waste into the sea because it was cheaper to pay the fine than it was to have the waste disposed of correctly. This is now no longer the case……which is good.

[drewyboy]

Ok, why are these "environmentalist" going after Apple? Doesn't Apple only have 4% of the computer market?? Why are they leaving Dell,Hp,Gateway, etc.. alone? They are the ones making up 96% of the market... go somewhere that would actually make a difference.

[iGary]

Ok, why are these "environmentalist" going after Apple? Doesn't Apple only have 4% of the computer market?? Why are they leaving Dell,Hp,Gateway, etc.. alone? They are the ones making up 96% of the market... go somewhere that would actually make a difference.

Remember, these people are a couple of french fries short of a Happy Meal.

[martman]

Like I said, the real problem isn't in the US, its in China.

<sarcasm>That's right the US is perfect and never abuses the environment</sarcasm>

Much of this problem in China comes from the West (including USA).


The environmental movement always choses a target and goes after it. Divide an conquer is the only possible way that any positive change comes about. It is impossible to fight the entire computer industry at once. This year the target is Apple. If what Jobs says is the truth and not just a heavy slant then they chose the wrong target.

Personally I'd like to see the response of the environmentalists before I completly believe Steve Jobs.

Dell is not being targeted because they were previously a traget till they cleaned up their act.

You people are hiding your heads in the sand if you didn't notice Dell getting in ***** previously.

:confused:

[tromboneaholic]

Define "pressured".

Apple recycles computers for $30. Isn't your water, food, air, etc. worth $30?

My comments were not restricted to Apple, but merely stating an ideology.

However, $30 is not the only issue at hand. There are also questions of packaging (pizza boxes), product design, and customer education.

[tromboneaholic]

Ugg, get a life already. :rolleyes: Apple has always had a progressive enviromental policy. These people that want their 15 minutes should go take care of the real enviromental problems, like China.


I have one...see my post count?

[SiliconAddict]

I think it's a good thing that technology companies are being held accountable for their environmental practices.

If some of you were better informed about the growing e-waste problem, you would probably be on the side of the so-called 'tree-huggers'. Just because this stuff isn't in your backyard, doesn't mean it's not there.

Now if only someone would go after AOL. I don't even want to imagine how many of those damn CD's are in landfills. It actually makes me somewhat sick thinking about it. It would be one thing if CD's were recyclable but since in most places they aren't I consider what AOL is doing tantamount to a company dumping toxic waste. How many millions of disk has that company spammed this country with? :mad: They keep sending me one even after I've called, e-mailed, snail mailed them. These bastards just don't stop.

[SiliconAddict]

Like I said, the real problem isn't in the US, its in China.


Yah like the US is so overly green...NOT. :rolleyes:

[OnaMacSince1989]

Here's the website for the wacko's who think Apple is the environment's number one enemy. This group was in the news a couple months ago. Thought they were a lot off base before Steve finally spoke out yesterday. Guess they got the press they wanted by picking on a high profile target, no matter how far off base they are.
http://www.computertakeback.com/bad_apple/bad_apple_biz.cfm

And here's Apple's website on their environmental programs:
http://www.apple.com/environment/

[martman]

Here's the website for the wacko's who think Apple is the environment's number one enemy. This group was in the news a couple months ago. Thought they were a lot off base before Steve finally spoke out yesterday. Guess they got the press they wanted by picking on a high profile target, no matter how far off base they are.
http://www.computertakeback.com/bad_apple/bad_apple_biz.cfm

And here's Apple's website on their environmental programs:
http://www.apple.com/environment/


Again more hyperbole by someone who insists the world is black and white.

NO ONE SAYS APPLE IS THE ENVIRONMENT'S NUMBER ONE ENEMY!

They are just the flavour of the day.

Even though I am an Apple fan, I am sickened by the "Apple (Steve) can do no wrong" crowd.

Apple should take computers for free when droped off at an Apple store and this service should be included in the price of a new Mac. If you charge money at the end of life people will just trash their Macs and iPods rather than recycling

As for Steve's argument about iPod batteries, I don't buy it at all. I love my iPod but the battery should be easily user replaced and there should be a $10 discount when ordering a new one if you send back the old one. THIS IS HOW TO SOLVE THE IPOD EWASTE ISSUE! Not pretending that a disposable iPod is the most environmentally friendly method of dealing with batteries that only last a year to a year and a half.

[martman]

Now if only someone would go after AOL. I don't even want to imagine how many of those damn CD's are in landfills. It actually makes me somewhat sick thinking about it. It would be one thing if CD's were recyclable but since in most places they aren't I consider what AOL is doing tantamount to a company dumping toxic waste. How many millions of disk has that company spammed this country with? :mad: They keep sending me one even after I've called, e-mailed, snail mailed them. These bastards just don't stop.

Actually AOL is always on the recieving end for this practice. I think just about every one agrees with you about AOL. At least when it was floppies you could reuse them. Perhaps if they used CDRWs instead....

[OnaMacSince1989]

Again more hyperbole by someone who insists the world is black and white.

NO ONE SAYS APPLE IS THE ENVIRONMENT'S NUMBER ONE ENEMY!

They are just the flavour of the day.

Even though I am an Apple fan, I am sickened by the "Apple (Steve) can do no wrong" crowd.

Apple should take computers for free when droped off at an Apple store and this service should be included in the price of a new Mac. If you charge money at the end of life people will just trash their Macs and iPods rather than recycling

As for Steve's argument about iPod batteries, I don't buy it at all. I love my iPod but the battery should be easily user replaced and there should be a $10 discount when ordering a new one if you send back the old one. THIS IS HOW TO SOLVE THE IPOD EWASTE ISSUE! Not pretending that a disposable iPod is the most environmentally friendly method of dealing with batteries that only last a year to a year and a half.


I don't see in black and white...I see things in many shades of gray...hell, I'm a big liberal windbag myself. But aparently you haven't read their website cuz the group focusing all their attention on Apple are nut jobs. It's like religous conservatives blaiming gays for the decline of marriage in our culture. Let the consumer take responsibility for what happens with their property when they are done with it - the manufacturer doesn't need to take on the burden of free recycling or disposal of products they sold years ago. What's next? GM, Ford, and Toyota forced to recycle and dispose of 20 year old clunkers left on the side of roads? GE or Whirlpool forced to take care of a fridge or stove dumped in fields? Too many people always want someone else to take responsiblity for their actions. :mad:

[martman]

Actually all the examples you mention are becomming the way of the future. Yes all corporations need to take responsibility for the garbage they produce. Just because they had a free ride in the past doesn't mean they shouldn't clean up after themselves now.
"Too many people always want someone else to take responsiblity for their actions. "

As for their web site, I went there. They didn't seem like the crazies you are making them out to be. Perhaps you could point out some specific examples...

[Sunrunner]

Remember, these people are a couple of french fries short of a Happy Meal.

VERY good point ;)

[Sunrunner]

Actually AOL is always on the recieving end for this practice. I think just about every one agrees with you about AOL. At least when it was floppies you could reuse them. Perhaps if they used CDRWs instead....

Im betting they single-handedly support a significant percentage of the CD maufacturing buisness, lol

[Sunrunner]

Actually all the examples you mention are becomming the way of the future. Yes all corporations need to take responsibility for the garbage they produce. Just because they had a free ride in the past doesn't mean they shouldn't clean up after themselves now.
"Too many people always want someone else to take responsiblity for their actions. "

As for their web site, I went there. They didn't seem like the crazies you are making them out to be. Perhaps you could point out some specific examples...


... perhaps you are in fact one of the crazies...

[MarkCollette]

I have no idea what this has to do with Apple. Here in Alberta, Canada, the provincial government set up an electronics recycling tax, to fund the proper disposal of all electronics. So, televisions, monitors, computers, dvd players, etc. all are broken down into categories based on the cost of disposal, and taxed accordingly at purchase. Then many of the retailers act as collecting locations for the old stuff.

Plus, the environmental mantra I learned as a kid was:
1. Reduce
2. Reuse
3. Recycle

I think Apple's done a good job in the past of reducing its marketshare, and selling expensive computers that force reuse, as no one can afford new ones, so it's probably the consumer's job of ensuring recycling.

( Ok, I admit I'm just bitter that the Mac mini came out soon after I bought a second-hand PowerMac G4 )

[rockthecasbah]

it's not like Apple charges you $30 to throw it in a landfill guys, can't you find it in your hearts to spend a lousy $30 and maybe better the future generations' lives? Think of the children! :)

I'm not sure who said it, but i do find it strange the environmentalists are going after us, when there are so many more PC companies! I bet it's a Microsoft Conspiracy! That would be kinda sad if Microsoft had to pay people to say Apple is an environmentally harmful company...

[alms]

I have been a Mac user since 1984, I was an Apple employee, and I'm now a consultant at Green Century Capital Management, the investment firm that spoke out at the Annual meeting.

I'm as much a Mac fanatic as anyone on this board. But I have to say, Steve Jobs was selling a bill of goods on this shareholder meeting, and most of you apparently bought it. Just to set the record straight on a couple of points:

1. Apple is not the first company to be approached on this campaign. Dell was hit very hard by activists starting about three years ago. After about a year, the company responded. At this point, their policies are much, much better than Apple's. Since June 2004 they have been offering free recycling of an old computer to anyone who buys a new Dell. If you're not buying a new Dell, they will recycle your old computer for between 10 and 20 dollars.

2. Steve was very proud of the 1,500 tons of computer equipment that Apple recycled last year. Dell recycled 33,000 tons of equipment last year. Their efforts included a national recycling tour, with free collections in towns and universities around the country.

3. Similarly, HP has had free recycling programs in place with Staples around the country.

4. This is a national problem, and right now localities are footing the bill for it. E-Waste is toxic, and it can't be put in landfills. Towns and cities are paying tens and hundreds of thousands of dollars to dispose of this waste. They can't tell their residents to pay a fee to dispose of a computer, because if they try to do that, residents just leave the item in front of someone else's house. There is pending legislation addressing the e-waste problem in states around the country. Contrary to what Steve said at the meeting, Apple <i>is</i> lobbying on this issue, and their lobbying is not helpful.

The most frustrating thing about all of this is that Apple should be leading the way on this issue. No other computer manufacturer has a retail point of presence in 125 locations (and counting) around the country. It would be very easy for Apple to take back old computers at the stores for free. Heck, they should even give you a $10 coupon towards a new Mac if you bring an old computer back in. Apple's been trying for years to get people to switch. Why not give someone $5 off the price of a mini if they bring in their old PC? Think of the photo-ops they could get out of that? Steve Jobs standing next to a 10-ton pile of Windoze e-waste, collected from people who have switched to Macs.

The only thing standing in the way of this is that Steve doesn't like it when other people tell him what to do. In this case he should listen. This is a winning issue for Apple. They should get in front of it, rather than swearing at the people who are bringing them the message.

[rockthecasbah]

1. Apple is not the first company to be approached on this campaign. Dell was hit very hard by activists starting about three years ago. After about a year, the company responded. At this point, their policies are much, much better than Apple's. Since June 2004 they have been offering free recycling of an old computer to anyone who buys a new Dell. If you're not buying a new Dell, they will recycle your old computer for between 10 and 20 dollars.

2. Steve was very proud of the 1,500 tons of computer equipment that Apple recycled last year. Dell recycled 33,000 tons of equipment last year. Their efforts included a national recycling tour, with free collections in towns and universities around the country.

Alright first of all, i don't think Apple EVER said they were the first to do recycling campaigns, so i don't know where the heck you pulled that out of...

Second, look at the stats. Dell recycles a lot of PCs, but why? It has been proven Microsoft machines have a shorter lifespan than Macintosh computers (in fact, my mom still uses her Performa 630CD from '93 or '94). It works as well as it did 11 years ago when we got it!! Secondly, there is such a different number comparison of windows to mac ratio that you can't really compare the two. However, considering Macs make up about 4-6% of all computers, those numbers of recycled tons are on par. Good try though...;)

[albert g]

The way to change the direction of the environmental movement is to get involved. Otherwise, you're just blowing smoke...and we've got enough pollution...especially when it's coming out of your a...

[martman]

I'm really sick of this particular fallacy: "THEY are worse so WE don't have a problem."
I repeat this is a fallacy.
We have a problem and we should clean it up.
As for your Dell numbers: "IDC had Dell's share at 18.2 percent" while Apple is around 1.75% of the market.


So if you do the math you find that Dell recycles 1813.19 tons per percent of market share while Apple recycles 857 tons per percent of market share OR you can look at it like this: if Apple had the same market share as Dell and had the same success recycling as they do now they would have recycled 15,600 tons VS Dell's 33,000.

Sorry your argument falls flat.

[rockthecasbah]

So if you do the math you find that Dell recycles 1813.19 tons per percent of market share while Apple recycles 857 tons per percent of market share OR you can look at it like this: if Apple had the same market share as Dell and had the same success recycling as they do now they would have recycled 15,600 tons VS Dell's 33,000.

Sorry your argument falls flat.
What are you doing to get these calculations :confused:

[zac4mac]

martman - numbers are wrong, should be 1813.19*1.75=3173.1 tons. Steve said 1500, that's close - factor of only 2. You're off by almost an order of magnitude.

I like Steve's comment. Concise and to the point.

BTW - am and always have been('cept for 6 yrs in the Navy) a long haired hippie. Recycling is a necessary thing, but these guys are nutzos.

[plastree]

I have no idea what this has to do with Apple. Here in Alberta, Canada, the provincial government set up an electronics recycling tax, to fund the proper disposal of all electronics. So, televisions, monitors, computers, dvd players, etc. all are broken down into categories based on the cost of disposal, and taxed accordingly at purchase. Then many of the retailers act as collecting locations for the old stuff.

Plus, the environmental mantra I learned as a kid was:
1. Reduce
2. Reuse
3. Recycle

I think Apple's done a good job in the past of reducing its marketshare, and selling expensive computers that force reuse, as no one can afford new ones, so it's probably the consumer's job of ensuring recycling.

( Ok, I admit I'm just bitter that the Mac mini came out soon after I bought a second-hand PowerMac G4 )

:D :D :D :D

[whatever]

I think before anyone starts complaining about Apple, I think we should look around at our own communities. Every cemetery should be considered a wasteland (pun intended). Let's not only bury our dead, but lets put them in cement tombs so that their corpses don't biodegrade!

Unlike the dinosaurs, we're not willing to fuel future generations!

Whatever

[iGary]

2. Steve was very proud of the 1,500 tons of computer equipment that Apple recycled last year. Dell recycled 33,000 tons of equipment last year.

Gee, I wonder how many more computers Dell sold than Apple?

Go hug something.

[willhclark]

My Apple stock is down 21.2 % since it split and they're talking about Recycling.
sigh

[gwangung]

I'm really sick of this particular fallacy: "THEY are worse so WE don't have a problem."
I repeat this is a fallacy.
We have a problem and we should clean it up.
As for your Dell numbers: "IDC had Dell's share at 18.2 percent" while Apple is around 1.75% of the market.


So if you do the math you find that Dell recycles 1813.19 tons per percent of market share while Apple recycles 857 tons per percent of market share OR you can look at it like this: if Apple had the same market share as Dell and had the same success recycling as they do now they would have recycled 15,600 tons VS Dell's 33,000.

Sorry your argument falls flat.


Well, maybe if you assume that Dell computers and Apple Computers weight the same. Not sure they do. And is Dell including things like printers which they sell but Apple does not (at least, not as much as?) (and I would argue that they could count as "computer equipment")? And CRT monitors (which are heavier than LCD monitors)?

Not sure a simplistic count of tonnage is all that useful....

[alms]

Not sure a simplistic count of tonnage is all that useful....

This is correct. Companies include all sorts of material in their "recycled" numbers. They sometimes include computers that were returned as defective, bad parts that were found during manufacturing, old computers used by Apple employees, etc.

Unless companies provide a lot more info, a simple number like "1,500 tons" really doesn't mean a whole lot.

[gwangung]

This is correct. Companies include all sorts of material in their "recycled" numbers. They sometimes include computers that were returned as defective, bad parts that were found during manufacturing, old computers used by Apple employees, etc.

Unless companies provide a lot more info, a simple number like "1,500 tons" really doesn't mean a whole lot.

Or 33,000.

[alms]

Or 33,000.

Dell gives all the details on their recycling program in their annual sustainability report, which you can download from this page (http://www1.us.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/corp/environment/en/index?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs) . The relevant information about their recycling program is on page 58.

[Maestro64]

1. Apple is not the first company to be approached on this campaign. Dell was hit very hard by activists starting about three years ago. After about a year, the company responded. At this point, their policies are much, much better than Apple's. Since June 2004 they have been offering free recycling of an old computer to anyone who buys a new Dell. If you're not buying a new Dell, they will recycle your old computer for between 10 and 20 dollars.

2. Steve was very proud of the 1,500 tons of computer equipment that Apple recycled last year. Dell recycled 33,000 tons of equipment last year. Their efforts included a national recycling tour, with free collections in towns and universities around the country.

3. Similarly, HP has had free recycling programs in place with Staples around the country.

First, I do not understand why Apple has you meet with you all and negotiate. You have not authority to tell anyone what they should do. Next, yes you met with dell first since they were not doing a thing, and Apple already was. Second, do not fool yourself into thinking Dell and HP did this because they were being good corporate citizens. They did it because it made business sense. I know for a fact they did this because they wanted the old used computer off the market, they did not want them being handed down to someone's son or daughter. Their recycle program is about sell more new computers not meeting your objective. Oh BTW, by telling people they did it for the environment it makes them look all that much better.


4. This is a national problem, and right now localities are footing the bill for it. E-Waste is toxic, and it can't be put in landfills. Towns and cities are paying tens and hundreds of thousands of dollars to dispose of this waste. They can't tell their residents to pay a fee to dispose of a computer, because if they try to do that, residents just leave the item in front of someone else's house. There is pending legislation addressing the e-waste problem in states around the country. Contrary to what Steve said at the meeting, Apple <i>is</i> lobbying on this issue, and their lobbying is not helpful.

This is an industry problem it has nothing to do with Apple or any other company. The fact that "you" the consumer want things that are made of things that are not easily recycle has more to due with the problem then the company. Also, Apple is not the only company lobbying against these laws ever company who makes a product made of things that are not easily recycle do not want these laws, because it makes the company responsible for recover and disposal. As such they too have the same problem of disposal since no land fill wants it.

BTW, instead of using a word like toxic e-waste, tell people what is toxic. In the case of Apple and many manufactures of electronics it is the Lead in the solder that is the issue. To date, no one including the people complaining have developed a non-toxic replacement for lead solder. Do not let them fool you and say there is a solution. There are proposed solutions, but non have been proven reliable enough, and the ones that exist require major changes in material properties which people do not know the long term affects will be form the changes.

Apple's been trying for years to get people to switch. Why not give someone $5 off the price of a mini if they bring in their old PC? Think of the photo-ops they could get out of that? Steve Jobs standing next to a 10-ton pile of Windoze e-waste, collected from people who have switched to Macs.

Again, why would Apple want to deal with someone else's problems, first they have no ideal where the machine was made and what materials are used inside the computer, what if they used plastics which could not be ground up and recycle. So now they are sitting on a mound of trash that no one wants and they can not do a thing with.

I tell you this as fact since I work at Apple and was part of many discussion in the late 80's and early 90's about material selection for use in the computer and much of the conversation was around was it easily recycled. Apple change their plastic and metal parts a long time ago to ensure that it could be recycled. They were one of the first companies who used packing material that could be recycled. They were one of the first company who stopped using freon to clean PCBs when it was discovered it did to the environment.

So Apple has done all this, so why hasn't consumers recycled their Macs. I tell you why because no one has local resources to do it. The same reason people no longer recycle paper in most of this country, they found it not cost effective to recycle.

Face it, the US is a use and throw away society and to hold companies responsible might be a noble thing to do, but you have to change people's mind set.

And before you get on my case, more stuff in my house goes out in the recycle bins then in the trash bin, and I tend to find good homes for old things I no longer want. But I am responsible for the waste I create, I do not point fingers at the other guy

[alms]

First, I do not understand why Apple has you meet with you all and negotiate. You have not authority to tell anyone what they should do.
Apple is a publicly traded company. As a shareholder, I have every right to ask the company questions and to voice my opinion when I believe it is acting in a way that will hurt its long-term business prospects.

Again, why would Apple want to deal with someone else's problems
If someone comes into an Apple Store with an old Gateway and walks out with a new Macintosh, Apple hasn't taken someone else's problems, they have taken someone else's customer.

[gwangung]

Dell gives all the details on their recycling program in their annual sustainability report, which you can download from this page (http://www1.us.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/corp/environment/en/index?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs) . The relevant information about their recycling program is on page 58.

Reading that, the 33,000 tons is still not particularly useful for comparison with Apple. As you well know, the product mix for the two companies are significantly different, as Dell includes more CRTs and printers in their product mix. Also, it is not clear how comparable the lease programs are for the two companies (which would have a significant impact on comparisons; if Apple doesn't count leases, then Dell's numbers are to a certain extent padded). Thirdly, quality control differences may artificially inflate one company's total if they count (as Dell apparently does) recycling from customer returns. Fourth, differences in international sales may account for differences in tonnage, as Dell excludes totals from countries who do not distinguish by product brand (if, say, Apple has a greater proportion of sales in those countries, then their totals will be artificially depressed, and vice versa if Dell has a greater proportion of sales).

In short, I still find these comparisons simplistic and not particularly useful.

[Maestro64]

Apple is a publicly traded company. As a shareholder, I have every right to ask the company questions and to voice my opinion when I believe it is acting in a way that will hurt its long-term business prospects.

I agree as a share holder you want to invest in companies you feel are fiscally responsible, have an understanding of the bigger picture and have a sound business model. So why would you ask a company to take on something that has no real solution. What you told Apple is not to make products unless they are 100% green. At today present technology level this can not be achieved. Next, Apple is not a manufacturing or process technology company. They were in the 80's and contributed lots to todays cleaner PCBA's processes. They are just a user of what is presently the state of the art in manufacturing technologies.

Why are you not going after the companies who make the chips and PCB's which make up the majority of the so called toxic waste. Reason is those companies do not generate headline news, for the most part they are at the bottom of the food chain. Why not go after large companies who replace PCs every 3 years for the latest and greatest look at how many PC they put in a land fill. Or better yet, Microsoft who produces software that obsoletes hardware every few years in order to forces consumers to upgrade hardware to get the next software feature.

No you go after the news worthy consumer of the technology, like Apple. But you should be attacking the everyday consumer since they are the one who are driving Apple to sell them these products.

Face it you can not have it both ways, there are trade offs being made everyday, and I know one that never will happen, which is, would you pay more for a product that is 100% green, and the answer is NO! Customers want to pay less and they will give up green products in exchange for cheaper products.

As you all figured out, you can not change the consumer, they will put things in a land fill and not think twice about how it effects the over all environment.

In my case as long as a company is using the state of art manufacturing technology and are not using things that have been replaced by more environmentally friend products they are doing the correct thing.


If someone comes into an Apple Store with an old Gateway and walks out with a new Macintosh, Apple hasn't taken someone else's problems, they have taken someone else's customer.

Obviously, you missed the point here, and based on your comment above, why would you want Apple to take on something they was fiscally irresponsible like dealing with some other companies or persons waste. Apple is not in the waste management business. The simple fact that Apple is more then willing to recycle their own products is enough. If the consumer chooses to pitch a product verses recycle it is not the company's fault.

[Maestro64]

Reading that, the 33,000 tons is still not particularly useful for comparison with Apple. As you well know, the product mix for the two companies are significantly different, as Dell includes more CRTs and printers in their product mix. Also, it is not clear how comparable the lease programs are for the two companies (which would have a significant impact on comparisons; if Apple doesn't count leases, then Dell's numbers are to a certain extent padded). Thirdly, quality control differences may artificially inflate one company's total if they count (as Dell apparently does) recycling from customer returns. Fourth, differences in international sales may account for differences in tonnage, as Dell excludes totals from countries who do not distinguish by product brand (if, say, Apple has a greater proportion of sales in those countries, then their totals will be artificially depressed, and vice versa if Dell has a greater proportion of sales).

In short, I still find these comparisons simplistic and not particularly useful.

Face it, they twisting the numbers to say what they want it to say. Depending on how you want the story to read you can make the numbers say all kinds of things even things which make no sense or are totally meaningless when you try to compared.

The only thing to take away from the fact that Dell publish these numbers is to tell the stock analysis about how many used computer they took out of circulation thus increasing the potential number of new sales they will have in the future. Information published in the Annual report is for investors not environmentalists.

The biggest problem companies who make electronics is how do you continue to grow sales if the market has been saturated. After saturation the only new sales you have are those new to the market or replacement. Well if computers are now lasting longer replacement sales go down, and if those who do replace give the old useable computer to a new person to the market then your new sales potential is decreases.

So how do you increase sales, well get rid of the grey market of used computers. This is a classic example form any business school worth its salt. So now the people who run the company know this and the people who analyze the companies know this. So how to you tell your investors what you are doing, tell them you have a recycle program to recover old computers take them of the market.

So the take away from the 33,000 tons there are that many less computer on the use market leaving a potential for Dell to sell more computers in the future thus driving revenues up. Oh, it also makes them sound like they care for the environment.