Mac OS X Tiger Notes

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

As previously reported (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2005/04/20050422090517.shtml) Mac OS X Tiger has started shipping and the first users are posting their screenshots and experiences with the new version of Mac OS X.

The final build is confirmed to be 8A428, the same as that being distributed illegally in P2P circles. Of note, Apple's legal representation has sent cease and desist letters to at least one of the offending Bittorrent distribution sites.

"Apple also demands all information related to the identity of the persons who created such torrent files and/or who uploaded the software referenced by those torrent files, as well as the identities of all individuals who participated in the uploading and downloading of Apple's software."

The site in question, however, does not appear to be taking the threat seriously.

Regardless, legitimate copies of Mac OS X have been distributed to end users at this time. MacRumors' forums have undergone a reorganization and all Tiger discussion can take place in the consolidated Mac OS X Forum (http://forums.macrumors.com/forumdisplay.php?f=69). Please post your questions and experiences there. As always, please do not post any information on illegal distribution of copyrighted software.

[Josh396]

Good it here some people are already getting their copies. To bad I have to wait until Friday.

[iJaz]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

As previously reported (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2005/04/20050422090517.shtml) Mac OS X Tiger has started shipping and the first users are posting their screenshots and experiences with the new version of Mac OS X.

The final build is confirmed to be 8A428, the same as that being distributed illegally in P2P circles. Of note, Apple's legal representation has sent cease and desist letters to at least one of the offending Bittorrent distribution sites.



The site in question, however, does not appear to be taking the threat seriously.


I'm not surprised. Parasites!

[Bubbasteve]

Good it here some people are already getting their copies. To bad I have to wait until Friday. Yeah, but It's gonna be awesome

[edesignuk]

Pretty please, with sugar on the top, if anyone wants to get in to the whole piracy and legality http://upload.yo-momma.net/uploads/macros/yesitis_noitisnt.gif debate, carry it on in this thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=121061) :) :cool:

[scheming]

i was anti-apple for a while until microsoft releases sp2 for windows xp. i think apple's pricing on tiger is very reasonable and there is even sites similar to *********.com that are giving away osx tiger for free. i respect apple for their pursuance of people distributing the software early, especially since it had to start with an employee of theirs.

[thedoc1111]

Having received Tiger, I'm not that impressed - Finder has crashed a few times, all the elements in some Cocoa applications can be 'focussed' by pressing Tab repeatedly, but to no real effect as they cannot be manipulated and my Bluetooth headset no longer works. I've also yet to find a compelling use for Dashboard and Mail's new look is appallingly inconsistent.

What's more, on my PB 1.33GHz there is no real discernable speed-up, especially compared to Jaguar --> Panther and this is on a clean install.

Compulsory registration is also not nice...

[Freg3000]

Pretty please, with sugar on the top, if anyone wants to get in to the whole piracy and legality http://upload.yo-momma.net/uploads/macros/yesitis_noitisnt.gif debate, carry it on in this thread (http://upload.yo-momma.net/uploads/macros/yesitis_noitisnt.gif) :) :cool:

It's pretty difficult to do so in that thread. :)

Anyway, I really hope Tiger gets here by Friday, as I was thinking about picking it up at the store, but I decided to preorder it instead. I dunno if I'll be able to take another day of waiting. :)

The BitTorrent bug as almost bitten me a few times before, but I've resisted thus far.

5 more days to go.

[~Shard~]

It's going to be really exciting to read people's experiences and see the first few screenshots. Although I'm holding off purchasing Tiger for right now, I think that it won't take long to persuade me to get a copy once all the news and reviews start coming out. :cool:

[~Shard~]

Having received Tiger, I'm not that impressed - Finder has crashed a few times, all the elements in some Cocoa applications can be 'focussed' by pressing Tab repeatedly, but to no real effect as they cannot be manipulated and my Bluetooth headset no longer works. I've also yet to find a compelling use for Dashboard and Mail's new look is appallingly inconsistent.

What's more, on my PB 1.33GHz there is no real discernable speed-up, especially compared to Jaguar --> Panther and this is on a clean install.

Compulsory registration is also not nice...

Interesting, thanks for posting the feedback. It is reasons like this why I am holding back on purchasing Tiger right away. I'll let some of the issues and bugs present themselves and get fixed before I buy. And also, if the overall user experience is disappointing based on some reviews, that will make it easier to wait, as at the moment, I have no complaints whatsoever with Panther.

[blackcrayon]

Having received Tiger, I'm not that impressed - Finder has crashed a few times, all the elements in some Cocoa applications can be 'focussed' by pressing Tab repeatedly, but to no real effect as they cannot be manipulated and my Bluetooth headset no longer works. I've also yet to find a compelling use for Dashboard and Mail's new look is appallingly inconsistent.

What's more, on my PB 1.33GHz there is no real discernable speed-up, especially compared to Jaguar --> Panther and this is on a clean install.

Compulsory registration is also not nice...

How is the registration "Compulsory"?

[edesignuk]

How is the registration "Compulsory"?When you install it, there is no skip button on the registration screen....unless I'm going blind :eek:

[blackcrayon]

When you install it, there is no skip button on the registration screen....unless I'm going blind :eek:

Ahh... You need to hit "command-option-Q" (it used to be just plain "command-Q".

Wonder why the change... (instead of just removing it completely if they don't want you to be able to avoid it).

[~Shard~]

When you install it, there is no skip button on the registration screen....unless I'm going blind :eek:

I assume this is simply an anti-piracy feature then? Don't remember having that on Panther...

[mnkeybsness]

out of curiosity, does anyone know what bit torrent site this is talking about?

---NEVERMIND---
The site is a swedish tracker that is known for never taking legal threats seriously because there is some legal loophole in Sweden that doesn't follow much for international copyright laws.

[ryan]

I signed up for the Tiger Early Release program so I've had a chance to play some of the betas, but what I haven't been able to figure out is whether or not I'm entitled to a free copy of the final release version. Anyone have any insights?

Thanks!

[whenpaulsparks]

where are screenshots? i havent seen any.

[rockthecasbah]

If someone was really smart, they would put their copy on ebay, then just buy another copy and make huge profit, possibly enough to get the actual OS cost as free! That's what I'd do anyway, there are a ton of Mac Nuts who'd pay big bucks :D . But i guess by the time it would ship, it would be available in stores....oh well it was a thought.

[Blue Moon]

If someone was really smart, they would put their copy on ebay, then just buy another copy and make huge profit, possibly enough to get the actual OS cost as free! That's what I'd do anyway, there are a ton of Mac Nuts who'd pay big bucks :D . But i guess by the time it would ship, it would be available in stores....oh well it was a thought.

Not the brightest of ones either. Don't forget there are fees involved with listing things on the internet and if you are selling a product before it has been released on the market (unless you are promising simply to ship upon release of the product) that would be illegal and not tolerated on ebay. This is all not to mention the fact that the amount of work you'd have to commit yourself to and the number of copies you would have to sell just in order to make a decent profit would make the whole derned enterprise nigh unworth the effort.

[geminister]

out of curiosity, does anyone know what bit torrent site this is talking about?

---NEVERMIND---
The site is a swedish tracker that is known for never taking legal threats seriously because there is some legal loophole in Sweden that doesn't follow much for international copyright laws.

that is quite inaccurate, to say the least. the loophole only makes it legal for the tracker-sites to run as usual. the act of downloading/sharing a torrent isnt legal though, but it's quite hard to trace.

since the tracker-sites do not violate swedish law, they do not have to give away information about users to anyone.

i can understand why the tracker itself feels the need to ridicule these threats, because it is quite arrogant of all these american lawfirms not to check what the legislation is like in the country they send these letters to.

and when it comes to all other forms of copyright, sweden is in line with the international standards.

[Ja Di ksw]

I can't wait for my copy to come. It says on or before 4 /28, but it also says its still processing the order :(.

Hopefully Apple will win against this site. Why can't they just track down users who have gotten an illegally shared copy? I would think that they'd be able to tell if two computers had it from the same DVD, if they were both hooked up to the net.

[blackcrayon]

I can't wait for my copy to come. It says on or before 4 /28, but it also says its still processing the order :(.

Hopefully Apple will win against this site. Why can't they just track down users who have gotten an illegally shared copy? I would think that they'd be able to tell if two computers had it from the same DVD, if they were both hooked up to the net.


No they wouldn't, because they don't use unique serial #s to register or to identify their operating system.

Of course, the installed OS X could report the serial # of the mac it's installed on back to Apple, but that would raise all sorts of privacy issues and be a really bad idea...

[sirjimithy1]

No they wouldn't, because they don't use unique serial #s to register or to identify their operating system.

Of course, the installed OS X could report the serial # of the mac it's installed on back to Apple, but that would raise all sorts of privacy issues and be a really bad idea...

Yeah, one Microsoft is enough for me. At least Apple realizes that the little bit of money you do save with anti-piracy efforts isn't worth pissing off the people who legitimately purchase the OS.

[Ja Di ksw]

No they wouldn't, because they don't use unique serial #s to register or to identify their operating system.

Of course, the installed OS X could report the serial # of the mac it's installed on back to Apple, but that would raise all sorts of privacy issues and be a really bad idea...

So why not use unique serial #'s? I would laugh if Apple did with this OS, but didn't tell people and then caught everyone who had an illegal copy.

I can see it raising privacy issues to report the serial # of the mac its on, but what else would make it a "really bad idea"?

[NEENAHBOY]

Having received Tiger, I'm not that impressed - Finder has crashed a few times, all the elements in some Cocoa applications can be 'focussed' by pressing Tab repeatedly, but to no real effect as they cannot be manipulated and my Bluetooth headset no longer works. I've also yet to find a compelling use for Dashboard and Mail's new look is appallingly inconsistent.

What's more, on my PB 1.33GHz there is no real discernable speed-up, especially compared to Jaguar --> Panther and this is on a clean install.

Compulsory registration is also not nice...

Until we see some shots, how do we know you've even received it?

[izzle22]

Has anyone had any problems installing a single user version on more than 1 Mac?

[Panther]

I signed up for the Tiger Early Release program so I've had a chance to play some of the betas, but what I haven't been able to figure out is whether or not I'm entitled to a free copy of the final release version. Anyone have any insights?

Thanks!Yes, I believe so. I was in the EEP for Panther and got a free copy of that from Apple... It was several weeks after launch though, and I'd already bought it by then :rolleyes:

[ManchesterTrix]

So why not use unique serial #'s? I would laugh if Apple did with this OS, but didn't tell people and then caught everyone who had an illegal copy.

How would they do it without telling people? Make a unique disc for every copy of OS X? That'd be insane and wasteful

[maya]

Remember Apple is not MS, since Apple makes most of its profits on its HW and PRO apps. The OS is only good on Apple HW and since you bought it legit (no clones) Apple gives the OS. However there is always both sides of the argument, as some developers are students and if anyone here is a student they know that $$$ is tight as is, thus the piracy issue of BT sites.

Apple is not leaving you cold in the dark, you have an option either buy the HW and get iLife and 10.4 free or you can stay with the previous OS. As for me since I upgrade my HW its not an issue of having the latest OS. :)

[wdlove]

When you install it, there is no skip button on the registration screen....unless I'm going blind :eek:

Sounds as though it's the beginning attempt by Apple to prevent the installation of Tiger on more than one computer.

[edesignuk]

Please stop posting the link to the BT site that is not taking Apples threats seriously. This is the text, but do not link please.
Subject: Re: Illegal Dissemination of Apple Intellectual Property
From: anakata
To: IRamage@********.com

> April 21, 2005
>
> VIA EMAIL
>
> NOT FOR POSTING
>
> Fredrik Neij
> Registrant of www.********.org
>
> Re: Apple Intellectual Property Disseminated by
> www.********.org
>
> Dear Mr. Neij:
>
> We represent Apple Computer, Inc. On or before April 21, 2005, the
> site www.********.org was in the process of distributing and/or
> facilitating the distribution of a misappropriated copy of an
> unreleased version of Apple's operating system software, Tiger 10.4,
> Build 8A428. The software constitutes an Apple trade secret and is
> copyrighted.

Awh, come on, I've heard the expression "a few bad apples", but this is
just ridiculous.

> Apple has a well-known, longstanding policy of closely guarding
> information about its unreleased products as trade secrets.

I've heard that before somewhere. I just can't remember where...

> We demand that you immediately disable the torrent and/or tracker and
> prevent further distribution of Apple's trade secret and copyrighted
> material.

We demand that you provide us with entertainment by sending more legal
threats. Please?

> Apple further demands that you provide us with all information
> relating to the posting of torrents enabling the distribution of Mac
> OS X Tiger, Build 8A428, including all log files and tracker files
> associated with such torrents. Apple also demands all information
> related to the identity of the persons who created such torrent files
> and/or who uploaded the software referenced by those torrent files, as
> well as the identities of all individuals who participated in the
> uploading and downloading of Apple's software. If you fail to
> maintain the evidence of this illegal activity, you will be subject to
> severe sanctions. In particular, if you destroy or hide any evidence,
> you will be subject to civil and criminal penalties. Please produce
> all requested information by the end of the day, Friday, April 22,
> 2005.

Even if we had that information, which we don't, do you really think we
would provide it to you?

> Builds of unreleased Apple software are distributed under strict
> confidentiality agreements. Your torrent site appears to be engaged
> in a practice of soliciting and disseminating Apple trade secrets.
> This practice is grounds for both civil and criminal liability. To
> avoid further liability, you must refrain from inducing the breach of
> any Apple confidentiality agreements, soliciting Apple trade secrets,
> and distributing Apple trade secrets on your site.

...Or what? You and Hans Brix will send us angry letters? Fortunately
for you, we don't keep sharks as pets.

> Apple is prepared to take further actions to stop the sites illegal
> activities, and Apple expressly reserves its rights. I am available
> to discuss this matter at any time. If you are represented by counsel
> in this matter, please provide me with the identity of that counsel.

Instead of simply recommending that you sodomize yourself with a
retractable baton, let me recommend a specific model - the ASP 21". The
previous lawyers tried to use a cheaper brand, but it broke during the
action.

>
> Sincerely,
>
> Ian Ramage
> OMelveny & Myers LLP
> Embarcadero Center West
> 275 Battery Street, Suite 2600
> (415) 984-8783 (direct)
> (415) 984-8701 (fax)
> iramage@********.com
>
> This message and any attached documents contain information from the
> law firm of OMelveny & Myers LLP that may be confidential and/or
> privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not read,
> copy, distribute, or use this information. If you have received this
> transmission in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply
> e-mail and then delete this message.

It's OK with you that we post this message on
http://static.********.org/legal/ ? Because I just did, and I'm so
afraid of you and your nice titles and shiny offices :-(.

[whenpaulsparks]

sooo you all that apparently got yours early, where are the pics of the box and manual and CDs? we all want to see them. or are you lying?

and screenshots!!!

when panther was released, i atleast had pics to drool over for a few days.

[~Shard~]

sooo you all that apparently got yours early, where are the pics of the box and manual and CDs? we all want to see them. or are you lying?

and screenshots!!!

when panther was released, i atleast had pics to drool over for a few days.

Always nice to see the skeptics out. ;)

[MacsRgr8]

I think a couple of posts have just disappeared.... :rolleyes:

BTW... Panther betas were just as much 'torrented as Tiger betas. That GM was "leaked" aswell at the time.

I understand why Apple takes these actions, but I don't understand why now

Or is the swap/share community that much bigger nowadays?

Heck, even when Mac OS X itself was quite a "secret" (before the Public Beta), many DP versions were available via Hotline and Carracho at that time. We didn't hear alot about Apple legal actions back then.

What's so special about Tiger?

[Lacero]

I'd gladly pay for a Tiger bittorrent file if Apple made one available, oh for say, perhaps $49? So much of the cost includes pressing, packaging and shipping I'm not willing to pay for.

Since Apple has embraced music downloads, they should embrace software downloads. The technology is certainly in place to provide wide dissemination of electronic data without the high costs associated with it.

[blackcrayon]

Sounds as though it's the beginning attempt by Apple to prevent the installation of Tiger on more than one computer.

It's no different from the way it was in Panther, you can skip registration, just the keypress to skip it has been changed.

If apple wanted to force users to adhere to the license agreement (and only install on one computer if it's just a single user license), they wouldn't need a "beginning"- they could just implement it and that's it. But so far, they still have not. Seems they only do this (if i'm not mistaken?) on their expensive "pro" apps...

[manu chao]

Just out of curiosity, is it legal to install a single user license on external drives in addition to installing it on the build-in drive.

Probably it is, I remember seeing software licenses talking about 'One CPU license' or 'Two CPU license'. And you couldn't run both copies simultaneously, although with same argument you could install it on your home and work computer which some licenses allow and some don't.

[Mac_Freak]

Well I think taht Apple has to start somewhere. That thinkSecret stuff also could have fired up all that "our secrecy" thing. Tiger as well as other software does belong to them so they have every right to persue those who brake their rules. All my friends have pirate copies windows xp, heck my buddy is even running Longhorn (though really buggy), so I don't think so we wont to happen the same to Apple's OS' ; even if they make most of their money from Hardware sales.
If we want to make OS X the best experience ever, we should support Apple on all-maybe most- of their decision.
Windows users have a valid argument to steal Windows XP, because it sucks and they would be getting ripped off if they pay for it.
However, that is not the case with OS X, so please do all of us and Apple a favore and buy legit copy of Tiger. Otherwise, your just another MS user.

[LaMerVipere]

I would love to see some screenshots.

Where might a fellow such as myself obtain such things? :)

[aswitcher]

Ahh... You need to hit "command-option-Q" (it used to be just plain "command-Q".)

Wonder why the change... (instead of just removing it completely if they don't want you to be able to avoid it).


This is going to be annoying when using the family pack when all machines aren't online. I would prefer 5 licence numbers.

[iJed]

I'd gladly pay for a Tiger bittorrent file if Apple made one available, oh for say, perhaps $49? So much of the cost includes pressing, packaging and shipping I'm not willing to pay for.

Since Apple has embraced music downloads, they should embrace software downloads. The technology is certainly in place to provide wide dissemination of electronic data without the high costs associated with it.

I too would love to be able to download a paid copy of Tiger as soon a it was complete. It seems that Apple can be quite a hypocrite calling music companies (pre-iTunes) distribution model antiquated when they do exactly the same as the RIAA for their software. Come on Apple compete with the torrent sites!

[~Shard~]

I too would love to be able to download a paid copy of Tiger as soon a it was complete. It seems that Apple can be quite a hypocrite calling music companies (pre-iTunes) distribution model antiquated when they do exactly the same as the RIAA for their software. Come on Apple compete with the torrent sites!

All in good time, I'm sure...

[i_am_a_cow]

...but I bought it the day after! It's so tight. I don't even have a DVD burner. I accidentally registered it but it really doesn't matter because I actually bought it. I hope all of the people who stole it will buy it now.

It is much snappier than 10.3, although the spotlight feature is not as quick as quicksilver.

Paying for it is worth it.

[swingerofbirch]

I am a dual citizen, and have lived in Sweden and may be able to explain the culture a bit.

In general, people don't sue nearly as often as in the states. If you are at a pool, and your child gets hurt, it's much less likely that there will be a lawsuit.

If you're visiting a canyon, they might not have warning signs that falling into said canyon could cause death, etc.

And as far as the law goes regarding free speech, they take that very seriously.

As far as international issues, I know that they refuse to extradite any criminals that could face the death penalty or harsh sentences as well.

Beyond that, I don't know much. But I know the attitude would be to laugh at Apple and ask why the hell they are complaining if they released a product that was capable of being copied and released on the Internet. Swedes are not into so much corporate welfare, where the government steps in to defend corporations, that I do know.

[DrNeroCF]

Are people really pretending that Bittorrenting is annonomous? Just hit apple+d in Bittorrnet, then tell me Apple can't find out who's downloading their OS...

Oh and before anyone accuses me of suggesting an illegal activity, macgamefiles.com uses bittorent to distribute large game demos: http://www.macgamefiles.com/detail.php?item=18598, for instance.

[i_am_a_cow]

I would love to see some screenshots.

Where might a fellow such as myself obtain such things? :)

Can I get in trouble for this? I hope Apple doesn't hate me. I did buy this after all.

http://www.micahfitch.com/imagestuff/tigre/untigre1.jpg

http://www.micahfitch.com/imagestuff/tigre/untigre2.jpg

And more, including grapher:
http://www.micahfitch.com/imagestuff/tigre/

[mudman]

Has anyone had any problems installing a single user version on more than 1 Mac?

I want to know too. Has anyone tried? :D

[i_am_a_cow]

I want to know too. Has anyone tried? :D

Um, Apple doesn't copy protect them...

[MacsRgr8]

Are people really pretending that Bittorrenting is annonomous? Just hit apple+d in Bittorrnet, then tell me Apple can't find out who's downloading their OS...

Oh and before anyone accuses me of suggesting an illegal activity, macgamefiles.com uses bittorent to distribute large game demos: http://www.macgamefiles.com/detail.php?item=18598, for instance.

It's not the downloading.... it's the first uploader.
Anyone using 'torrent, is (or should, at least :) ) an uploader. But the person responsible for the 'torrent file in the first place, is the one Apple is after.

Ofcourse BitTorrent can be used legally (heck, there even is a site dedicated to legal 'torrents (http://www.legaltorrents.com/index.htm) ), but one can assume the BitTorrent traffic all over the world is probably more illegal than legal.... ;)

[mudman]

Um, Apple doesn't copy protect them...
So what's the point of the registration screen?
command-option-Q.... :rolleyes: does it work?

[i_am_a_cow]

So what's the point of the registration screen?
command-option-Q.... :rolleyes: does it work?

So Apple knows who has their products and they can have statistics on roughly how many people are using them. I think command-option-q isn't even needed. Command-q is fine. But why wouldn't you want to register? Didn't you buy it?

[Dagless]

why did my post get deleted? all i asked was where are these people who ordered Tiger and had it arrive early from? my guess would be america, with the DVD's probably being pressed there.

and I think that Apple doing a puchase>download of Tiger would cool, and at a discount because you're not paying for boxes/manuals etc. I got Half Life 2 that way, just left if overnight and it was mine in the morning. and then it took a day or so to try and get it onto my laptop in my room :( -had no internet connection to it.

[izzle22]

So Apple knows who has their products and they can have statistics on roughly how many people are using them. I think command-option-q isn't even needed. Command-q is fine. But why wouldn't you want to register? Didn't you buy it?

Why? Because some people don't have all their Macs hooked to the internet and some people buy a single user copy and buy a used, second machine and feel they should be abel to install it on their second machine. That's why.

[powerbook911]

So what's the point of the registration screen?
command-option-Q.... :rolleyes: does it work?

If you're not connected to the net, the registration won't go through, and you have to manually send it anyway.

However, I have no problem registering. I always do.

[pigwin32]

Apple is not leaving you cold in the dark, you have an option either buy the HW and get iLife and 10.4 free or you can stay with the previous OS. As for me since I upgrade my HW its not an issue of having the latest OS. :)
Yep, this is pretty much what I did, but I bought the hardware (a Mac Mini) to run an OpenBSD webserver so I wouldn't be using the bundled software. I had old versions of the iLife apps on my TiBook and I figured I would upgrade them using the iLife install that came on the install disk with the Mac Mini (I haven't read the eula so I'm not sure if this is acceptable use). Plus having bought the Mac Mini after 12 April I'm eligible for a 10.4 upgrade for the cost of the media, hooray. *But* the installer wouldn't install the iLife apps on my PB. Knowing a little about packages I was fairly certain the individual iLife packages would be on the disk somewhere and sure enough there they were, stuffed into a ".packages" folder. The "." at the front of the name hides folders from the Finder so running Installer from the Finder won't work. But the Installer is just another application and you can run it from Terminal and you can pass it the name of the package and it did install the packages on my TiBook.

[pigwin32]

Can I get in trouble for this? I hope Apple doesn't hate me. I did buy this after all.

The new mail.app looks like an improvement, the 10.3 version is just too annoying with its stupid tray. On more than one occasion I tried to close mail by clicking on what I thought was the red close button. Instead I ended up closing the window of the application that was *behind* mail because the stupid tray covered everything except for the buttons. The stupid workaround for this stupid UI was to move the mail window to the far left so the stupid tray would open to the right. Stupid mail, mutter mutter. I thought Apple was supposed to be *good* at UI, and don't get me started on the stupid Dock.

[i_am_a_cow]

Why? Because some people don't have all their Macs hooked to the internet and some people buy a single user copy and buy a used, second machine and feel they should be abel to install it on their second machine. That's why.

I know haha, that was a sarcastic comment directed toward those who do not even plan on paying for one copy of tiger that they have obtained. I'm not saying that registration should be required, I'm just pointing out that Apple's use of registration is not so that it can prosecute those who steal, but so that it has an idea of who is using it's products.

Registration is not "required" now. There is some misunderstanding over this. The difference now is that you cannot check "I'll register later" or something like that. If you don't want to register you press command-q and set 10.4 up yourself.


PS: I wrote to Apple about a couple of issues I have discovered: Preview doesn't print the correct page numbers for PDFs with roman numerals, oval annotation only scales in one direction, my translator widget just stopped working, etc.

[i_am_a_cow]

PS If you still can't find it, then you are probably not smart enough to use Bittorrent properly anyway. Just pay the $129! Or $69 if you get the edu discount.

Yea just pay it anyway it's not very much for what you get out of it. Check out grapher:

http://www.micahfitch.com/imagestuff/tigre/untigre5.jpg

Does Longhorn come with a full graphing calculator? This one even graphs unsolved functions (x^2 + y^2 = z^2).

[izzle22]

I know haha, that was a sarcastic comment directed toward those who do not even plan on paying for one copy of tiger that they have obtained. I'm not saying that registration should be required, I'm just pointing out that Apple's use of registration is not so that it can prosecute those who steal, but so that it has an idea of who is using it's products.

Registration is not "required" now. There is some misunderstanding over this. The difference now is that you cannot check "I'll register later" or something like that. If you don't want to register you press command-q and set 10.4 up yourself.


What do you mean "set 10.4 up yourself" I never remembered Apple setting up Panther for me when I registered it? I figured you always set your OS up yourself.

[i_am_a_cow]

What do you mean "set 10.4 up yourself" I never remembered Apple setting up Panther for me when I registered it? I figured you always set your OS up yourself.

Well all the "setup assistant" (which is the program that also registers for you automatically) sets is your internet, .mac if you have it, and your personal info such as address and stuff. I think there might be some other stuff but it's all very simple stuff. Panther had something like this too. I remember because it had a really cool song with it.

[LaMerVipere]

Can I get in trouble for this? I hope Apple doesn't hate me. I did buy this after all.

And more, including grapher:
http://www.micahfitch.com/imagestuff/tigre/

Whoa, thanks! :)

Tiger looks great. :D

[blackcrayon]

Why? Because some people don't have all their Macs hooked to the internet and some people buy a single user copy and buy a used, second machine and feel they should be abel to install it on their second machine. That's why.

And Apple realizes that if you ever need to reinstall your OS, you might not want to have to register every time (or they might not want duplicate information in their database, etc.). Also, people might not want Apple to have their info (pirates asdie). It's a 2 way street. People may not want Apple contacting them or mailing them anything. Of course Apple might refuse to offer "support" in this case (though if you ever needed it you could probably just "register" at the time you experienced the problem)... But it's up to the customer which is nice. (Also, the customer could just enter bogus information anyway which is probably worse to apple than no info at all).

[tokevino]

Replay to i_am_a_cow:

How long does it take to index everything to Spotlight after the first installation? Or the process is automatic?

[blackcrayon]

This is going to be annoying when using the family pack when all machines aren't online. I would prefer 5 licence numbers.

How is a single key combo to skip the registration harder than entering a license number (you know, reading the big string of characters and entering it in exactly into a text field) five separate times? :confused:

FWIW, in case there is a misunderstanding, this is exactly how it worked in Panther. They just made the key combo to skip the registration different.

[Object-X]

I too would love to be able to download a paid copy of Tiger as soon a it was complete. It seems that Apple can be quite a hypocrite calling music companies (pre-iTunes) distribution model antiquated when they do exactly the same as the RIAA for their software. Come on Apple compete with the torrent sites!

Could you imagine the server load the day it was released? :eek:

[eric_n_dfw]

The new mail.app looks like an improvement, the 10.3 version is just too annoying with its stupid tray. On more than one occasion I tried to close mail by clicking on what I thought was the red close button. Instead I ended up closing the window of the application that was *behind* mail because the stupid tray covered everything except for the buttons. The stupid workaround for this stupid UI was to move the mail window to the far left so the stupid tray would open to the right. Stupid mail, mutter mutter. I thought Apple was supposed to be *good* at UI, and don't get me started on the stupid Dock.
Apparently, stupid is the work of the day. :p :rolleyes:

FWIW: I like the dock and I like Mail in 10.3. So do many people.

[eric_n_dfw]

...but I bought it the day after! It's so tight. I don't even have a DVD burner. I accidentally registered it but it really doesn't matter because I actually bought it. I hope all of the people who stole it will buy it now.

It is much snappier than 10.3, although the spotlight feature is not as quick as quicksilver.

Paying for it is worth it.
Does QuickSilver work okay with it? I'm completely addicted to it on 10.3

[shawnce]

Mac OS X 10.4 installs and then boots into a setup assistant just like 10.3, 10.2, 10.1, ... did before it.

In Tiger it attempts to use an existing .Mac or apple id to speed the process of configuring your system (pull down you name, address, etc.) however it will work just fine if you have NO internet connection.

It is NOT a licensing system, it isn't used to enable your install or any strange tricks like that.

Lets keep the FUD out of this.

[aegisdesign]

The new mail.app looks like an improvement, the 10.3 version is just too annoying with its stupid tray. On more than one occasion I tried to close mail by clicking on what I thought was the red close button. Instead I ended up closing the window of the application that was *behind* mail because the stupid tray covered everything except for the buttons. The stupid workaround for this stupid UI was to move the mail window to the far left so the stupid tray would open to the right. Stupid mail, mutter mutter. I thought Apple was supposed to be *good* at UI, and don't get me started on the stupid Dock.

This is the one thing I'm really going to miss. The new mail program looks like a boring outlook clone with the most bizarre buttons I've ever seen in an Apple application. I hope someone comes out with a hack to put the old style graphics back at least although I guess the drawer is gone forever.

I really hate having the mailboxes on the left and on a small screen, being able to switch the drawer out helped.

I really can't understand why Apple seem to have invented yet another UI style just for Mail. It's bizarre.

[whenpaulsparks]

thanks for the screenshots. you are a god amongst men.

btw, i wasnt skeptical. i just want to see screenshots. and tomorrow, bloody hell, someone had better put up pictures of the box and manual and CDs. i am salivating here. i need something to hold me over. i can't accept shipments right now so i have to buy mine friday night at the local store.

it is your responsibility, early people, to help the rest of this community out by letting us drool over screenshots and pictures of the box and CDs. it is an obligatory responsibility just by posting on these message boards. i'm sure its in the agreement you agree to when you created your account. check again.

[i_am_a_cow]

Replay to i_am_a_cow:

How long does it take to index everything to Spotlight after the first installation? Or the process is automatic?

Yea it's automatic and it only takes like an hour! (at least on my system)

[i_am_a_cow]

Does QuickSilver work okay with it? I'm completely addicted to it on 10.3

Yes, it does, and there is a development version for tiger.

[i_am_a_cow]

I really can't understand why Apple seem to have invented yet another UI style just for Mail. It's bizarre.

Actually, it makes sense. Mail is one of those applications that you have open while you have other applications open and it's not fun if you can't easily see the differences between these apps. The buttons look really cool in real life. I do admit they are a bit strange at first, but the icons are basically the same with grey buttons behind them.

[~Shard~]

Actually, it makes sense. Mail is one of those applications that you have open while you have other applications open and it's not fun if you can't easily see the differences between these apps. The buttons look really cool in real life. I do admit they are a bit strange at first, but the icons are basically the same with grey buttons behind them.

Like anything else brand new, I'm sure it simply takes time to get used to...

[j33pd0g]

This is the one thing I'm really going to miss. The new mail program looks like a boring outlook clone with the most bizarre buttons I've ever seen in an Apple application. I hope someone comes out with a hack to put the old style graphics back at least although I guess the drawer is gone forever.

I really hate having the mailboxes on the left and on a small screen, being able to switch the drawer out helped.

I really can't understand why Apple seem to have invented yet another UI style just for Mail. It's bizarre.

Does anyone know if you can do text only instead of buttons in the new Mail.app?

[pigwin32]

This is the one thing I'm really going to miss. The new mail program looks like a boring outlook clone with the most bizarre buttons I've ever seen in an Apple application. I hope someone comes out with a hack to put the old style graphics back at least although I guess the drawer is gone forever.

I really hate having the mailboxes on the left and on a small screen, being able to switch the drawer out helped.

My issue wasn't with the drawer itself, I agree it can be useful, my beef was with the implementation. Take another look at the image, the drawer is still there, it just goes all the way to the top, no more accidentally clicking on the application behind mail. Plus there are no icons in the toolbar above the drawer so if you close it, all the icons in the toolbar stay exactly where they are, i.e. exactly where you expect them to be. That's good UI design and demonstrates someone at Apple is still thinking about this stuff.

I'm not sure why you would suggest it looks like an Outlook knock-off, I use Outlook at work and I'm finding it difficult to see where there is any similarity, oh wait, they both have an Inbox.

[jared_kipe]

I like the new cleaned up mail.app

[usarioclave]

For some odd reason, I use calculator a lot. Well in Tiger, you can close the calculator window using cmd-w...but you can never get it back again.

Worse, you have to force-quit calculator - cmd-q doesn't work once you close the calculator window.

If the window is gone (see step one), you can choose the paper tape and the calculator window will show up again. But it won't actually do anything.

Sigh.

The calculator in Dashboard seems to work OK, but it's pretty basic. The color scheme on the dashboard one is much nicer, tho.

[shawnce]

For some odd reason, I use calculator a lot. Well in Tiger, you can close the calculator window using cmd-w...but you can never get it back again.

Worse, you have to force-quit calculator - cmd-q doesn't work once you close the calculator window.

If the window is gone (see step one), you can choose the paper tape and the calculator window will show up again. But it won't actually do anything.

Sigh.


Works fine here.

[nagromme]

While I like the new Mail look just fine--even the toolbar buttons--but I do NOT like that they have a totally different look from any other OS X app. Too many button styles! It's very odd to me that Apple would to that. We have about six different toolbar styles now.

But it's a micro-trivial issue in the face of what Tiger offers.

Question: Can you launch the full calculator from the Dashboard calculator? I know you can do that with Address Book and iCal, allowing me to remove those from my Dock and still get to them fast when needed. I'm hoping Calculator works the same way.

TIA.

[stephenli]

So why not use unique serial #'s? I would laugh if Apple did with this OS, but didn't tell people and then caught everyone who had an illegal copy.

I can see it raising privacy issues to report the serial # of the mac its on, but what else would make it a "really bad idea"?

Regardless of those who use i11egal M$ products, Uncle Steve trust us as a mac user who loves apple won't use illegal copies of Apple product (at least the OS) and hence give us candy like a pretty packing like what we received Panther (perhaps should also include Apple Sticker inside!!!) :cool:

[thedoc1111]

Remember Apple is not MS, since Apple makes most of its profits on its HW and PRO apps.

Not quite - the street (wall street that is) thinks Apple's next big thing will be software revenues, of which the majority will naturally be the consumer apps, not the pro apps...

[virividox]

Sounds as though it's the beginning attempt by Apple to prevent the installation of Tiger on more than one computer.

what happens when u get the family pack?

[aswitcher]

what happens when u get the family pack?


My guess is that IF Apple are uniquely serializing each disk then their servers will use other information about your computers to tell how many instances there are of that discs OS logging in to identify potential piracy. They might even use ISPs to try and distinguish multiple users logging in from different ISPs to alert of potential use outside of one household. Its doable but I dont think Apple are quite ready to be that heavy handed without warning people.

[aegisdesign]

Actually, it makes sense. Mail is one of those applications that you have open while you have other applications open and it's not fun if you can't easily see the differences between these apps. The buttons look really cool in real life. I do admit they are a bit strange at first, but the icons are basically the same with grey buttons behind them.

Come on, you're just trying to justify the difference here.

There's no excuse for yet another UI style. It was a bad enough stretch when they made the Finder metal.

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

[...] They might even use ISPs to try and distinguish multiple users logging in from different ISPs to alert of potential use outside of one household. Its doable [...]So how will Apple distinguish between me using my iBook at my mother's house when I vistit her (quite often) and my mother using her Mac** with Tiger from my (soon to arrive) Family Pack...?

**Note that this is purly hypothetical, as my mother doesn't even have a Mac...

[aegisdesign]

My issue wasn't with the drawer itself, I agree it can be useful, my beef was with the implementation. Take another look at the image, the drawer is still there, it just goes all the way to the top, no more accidentally clicking on the application behind mail. Plus there are no icons in the toolbar above the drawer so if you close it, all the icons in the toolbar stay exactly where they are, i.e. exactly where you expect them to be. That's good UI design and demonstrates someone at Apple is still thinking about this stuff.

But it's entirely inconsistent with the rest of the OS. AFAIK it's the only tool with that interface. And I'd expect the icons to move left if I collapse the 'drawer'.

I've personally never had a problem with the old drawer metaphor or it's implementation. I've never clicked the wrong application because the drawer doesn't extend all the way up to the titlebar. You also don't seem to understand how they work. If you've still got access to a 10.3 machine, close the drawer, then pick up a mail from your open mailbox and then drag it to the side of the window pane - the drawer slides open for you to drop your mail into a folder. When done it slides away again. That is really cool if you don't want mail taking up masses of screen estate.

I'm not sure why you would suggest it looks like an Outlook knock-off, I use Outlook at work and I'm finding it difficult to see where there is any similarity, oh wait, they both have an Inbox.

Because now we've got the same three pane classic old style mail application with a grey title bar and grey buttons with icons on and the folders on the left whereas before it looked like an OSX application, not a reskinned copy of Outlook with graphite buttons. The folders were on the right, putting what was important, your mail, in front of you reading from the left. It was a well thought out piece of human interaction.

Go look at the screenshot posted earlier of Mail with Preview behind it. That's two interface styles, and Preview rocks IMHO. And then we've got the iTunes/Finder metal style.

And the transparent widget style in iLife05.

And the Pro Video tools interface in darker grey with different tab styles.

And the wood in Garageband.

I don't care which ones they pick, but be consistent with where they are implemented. Their interface consistency has been shot since 10.3 came out and Mail makes it worse.

[840quadra]

out of curiosity, does anyone know what bit torrent site this is talking about?

---NEVERMIND---
The site is a swedish tracker that is known for never taking legal threats seriously because there is some legal loophole in Sweden that doesn't follow much for international copyright laws.

HEY!! mnkeybsness is from Minnesota too :)

sorry.. wayyyy off topic.

I still think it is stupid that for how cheap Tiger is with the education discount, that people STILL insist on sealing it. I know for a fact that 2 people I know have downloaded it, and they are BOTH in school and would get a great price on it anyway.

Did I have them burn a copy for me? heck no!! I will be at the Tiger release at the Mall of America.

on any other day my previous sentance would create panic and shock

[aswitcher]

So how will Apple distinguish between me using my iBook at my mother's house when I vistit her (quite often) and my mother using her Mac** with Tiger from my (soon to arrive) Family Pack...?

**Note that this is purly hypothetical, as my mother doesn't even have a Mac...


If you use different ISPs then it would be more likely to be two computers since most people dont pay to ISPs. Then again business might be on one and home on another so its far from fool proof.

Different countries within an hour of each other is likely a give away as well ;)

[ebally]

I was wondering if there is any news on whether Mac OS X Tiger recognises 700MB CDs, or does it still insist they are only 660MB?

I never really understood why this happens with the Operating System, when Toast seems fine with utilising all 700MBs of data on a CD.

[~Shard~]

I was wondering if there is any news on whether Mac OS X Tiger recognises 700MB CDs, or does it still insist they are only 660MB?

I never really understood why this happens with the Operating System, when Toast seems fine with utilising all 700MBs of data on a CD.

I wasn't even aware of this issue. Interesting.

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

Nobody answering your thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=122123), ebally...? ;)

[Flatbar]

Did anyone happen to notice that the Apple legal team has terrible grammar? This post is cannot be real and did not REALLY happen. Furthermore how could they ask for the "identities" of the persons? That is not information that an anonymous bittorrent searching server would have. They might have the IP numbers but not the "identities." I don't think that the Apple legal team is that out of it. ALSO - If the bittorrent service of that size is logging IP numbers then, besides having a lot of disk space and server power, they are incriminating themselves (each IP logged = another count). They would be extremely foolish to do so.

[ebally]

Nobody answering your thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=122123), ebally...? ;)

No, I'm affraid not. :(

Probably no one has tried to burn a CD yet with Tiger...

[ion]

Have you guys noticed a change in anti-aliasing of text? i noticed in some websites where bold text is present - the anti-aliasing in tiger looks really thicker than in panther...

[warriorpear]

Has anyone had a chance to use the video conference features on ichat?
How about automator?

[AidenShaw]

Microsoft releases 64-bit x64 (AMD/EM64T) Windows XP today, they managed to barely beat 10.4 to market with a 64-bit "desktop" operating system.... Unfortunately, they're advancing the "64-bit myth" as well.

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/64bit/default.mspx

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/images/64bit/58504_590x230_x64trial_F.jpg

The "trial" is a full CD with a 120-day time limit. You can also get a free upgrade of XP to XP x64.

[aegisdesign]

Microsoft releases 64-bit x64 (AMD/EM64T) Windows XP today, they managed to barely beat 10.4 to market with a 64-bit "desktop" operating system.... Unfortunately, they're advancing the "64-bit myth" as well.



It's not a myth for Windows. The x64 architecture has more registers than the old Intel 32bit architecture and chucks away a lot of the baggage from the Intel ISA that has held it back. It's quite a bit faster.

Only problem you have is you also need 64bit applications to take advantage of it too. Until you see x64 64bit Photoshop, 3DS or whatever, they won't run any quicker.

[sintax]

Microsoft releases 64-bit x64 (AMD/EM64T) Windows XP today, they managed to barely beat 10.4 to market with a 64-bit "desktop" operating system...

I don't know about that... if you try out their 64-bit XP version it says:
The trial CD software kit is available only in English when you order it from this Web site. Please allow 4 to 6 weeks for shipping CD orders.

And also this was supposed to be out like a year ago now. Why doesn't MS just stick to what they do best: XBOX. :)

[840quadra]

It's not a myth for Windows. The x64 architecture has more registers than the old Intel 32bit architecture and chucks away a lot of the baggage from the Intel ISA that has held it back. It's quite a bit faster.

Only problem you have is you also need 64bit applications to take advantage of it too. Until you see x64 64bit Photoshop, 3DS or whatever, they won't run any quicker.

Here we go again..

Take it away Aiden :D

[AidenShaw]

It's not a myth for Windows. The x64 architecture has more registers than the old Intel 32bit architecture and chucks away a lot of the baggage from the Intel ISA that has held it back. It's quite a bit faster.

That's the theory, anyway....

So far, I haven't seen any good tests that show the improved performance due to the ISA changes. One set of tests in Dr. Dobbs showed very little improvement with 64-bit code.

On the Microsoft page it says "64-bit native applications can deliver more data per clock cycle, making them run faster and more efficiently".

This is mostly untrue because the internal busses are still 128 and 256 bits wide and the SSE registers are 128 bits. Even for 64-bit integers it's stretch, since SSE has 64-bit integer support. (http://www.hayestechnologies.com/en/techsimd.htm#SSE2)

[kirk26]

Apparently, stupid is the work of the day. :p :rolleyes:

FWIW: I like the dock and I like Mail in 10.3. So do many people.

Apparently, spell check is the two words of the day. :p :rolleyes:

[TorbX]

If you're not connected to the net, the registration won't go through, and you have to manually send it anyway.

However, I have no problem registering. I always do.

It goes through. Just wait it out, disconnecting the ethernet cable.

[aegisdesign]

That's the theory, anyway....

So far, I haven't seen any good tests that show the improved performance due to the ISA changes. One set of tests in Dr. Dobbs showed very little improvement with 64-bit code.


I've not seen that report. I take it that was on Windows?

I know a few people have been claiming you get about a 40% improvement on 64bit float maths and 10-15% on 32bit applications if the compiler uses the extra registers. That was running Gentoo though, not Windows, so if M$ have screwed that up it'd be a pretty amazing feat of non-engineering.

But yes, in theory, the larger set of registers and making them 64bit _should_ improve performance over IA32 if it's not hampered the compiler or the OS.

PowerPC didn't get a change in the architecture from 32bit to 64bit so doesn't see the same gains - we were already a fundamentally 64bit architecture from the start.

[TorbX]

Hello.

About the drawer in Panthers mail:

I did not like it. I did not like it at all. It had this bad habit of changing place. One day it was on the right side, the other on the left. I had no control. I hope Tigers mail drawer stays in place :D

[TorbX]

Some people say they like the dock. Is there anything new about the Tiger's dock at all?

Enlight me :)

[AidenShaw]

I've not seen that report. I take it that was on Windows?

It was using Linux, and on both AMD64 and PPC970.

http://www.ddj.com/documents/s=9570/ddj0503b/0503b.html


I know a few people have been claiming you get about a 40% improvement on 64bit float maths and 10-15% on 32bit applications if the compiler uses the extra registers.

You mean "32-bit arithmetic", right? AFAIK you cannot access the extra registers from a 32-bit compiled application.


That was running Gentoo though, not Windows, so if M$ have screwed that up it'd be a pretty amazing feat of non-engineering.

For compute-bound code, it depends mainly on the compiler - but since these tests were all on Linux the "amazing feat of non-engineering" would be the gcc compiler.

[AidenShaw]

[ server error ]

[kildjean]

out of curiosity, does anyone know what bit torrent site this is talking about?

---NEVERMIND---
The site is a swedish tracker that is known for never taking legal threats seriously because there is some legal loophole in Sweden that doesn't follow much for international copyright laws.

Yes, but... if you don't know I can't tell you... ;)

[kildjean]

Could you imagine the server load the day it was released? :eek:

They could license STEAM to do it, from Valve... :P

Valve => Halflife 2

[DickArmAndHarT]

I like the mail.app in 10.3, if the window has more room on the left side when u open the drawer, it comes out that side and visa versa, instead of it comming out and getting cut off the screen then u have to move it over, and what a pain that is.

-I sit here typing this while thinking about my experince on a xp machine about 3 minutes ago, (brothers comp needed fixing) and how i couldnt stop little windows comming up, (system errors) and you hit okay but THEY DONT GO AWAY ,, Wow apple spoils us, as we sit here complaing about a tiny mail.app and the color of the buttons of direction of the drawer, Giggle Giggle

[i_am_a_cow]

Does anyone know if you can do text only instead of buttons in the new Mail.app?

Yes you can.

[i_am_a_cow]

Come on, you're just trying to justify the difference here.

There's no excuse for yet another UI style. It was a bad enough stretch when they made the Finder metal.

But the UI is the same, it simply looks slightly different, and that's why it's nice; you can quickly tell different windows apart without having to learn a new UI process.

[Lacero]

When you have multiple monitors, invoking the Dashboard brings the widgets flying into the screen from some far off corner. Looks terrible.

[usarioclave]

Works fine here.

Hmm, I poked around, and it seems I activated some of the calculator plugins some time in the past.

Removing the expressions and 2d calcview seems to have cleared it up.

Other things

* You can't launch the calculator from Dashboard.
* On multiple monitors, dashboard widgets come in from the top left of your desktop, not the top left of your main screen. I'm not sure, but that's probably a bug (they should fly out of the apple menu, not the top-left of your whole desktop).

[aegisdesign]

It was using Linux, and on both AMD64 and PPC970.

http://www.ddj.com/documents/s=9570/ddj0503b/0503b.html

That's just comparing Java performance. Hardly a wide test.


You mean "32-bit arithmetic", right? AFAIK you cannot access the extra registers from a 32-bit compiled application.


No, I meant internally in 32bit applications but the compiler has to know it's compiling for the AMD64 still even in 32bit mode. It also depends on if the processor is running legacy 32bit or compatibility mode. There was a thread on ars technica a while back discussing how to 'trick' compilers in to ordering the code so it used the AMD64 to it's advantage rather than sticking with the 8 P6 registers with or without register renaming.



For compute-bound code, it depends mainly on the compiler - but since these tests were all on Linux the "amazing feat of non-engineering" would be the gcc compiler.

Well history shows it's possibly equally bad or worse than Intel or M$'s compiler tools so I'm not going to claim Linux is going to be better than Windows there.

My point was, without wanting to be an AMD poster boy here, if M$ can't get any extra performance out of the AMD64 then it's not the fault of the processor which does have some significant performance improvements. Whether the theory translates to reality is a different matter.

The '64bit myth' is largely a myth on the PPC970 as the PowerPC architecture was already decked out with full size registers, fixed size instructions that get easily scheduled and a decent number of registers. There's minor improvements in some areas because of a flat memory model but that's about it. Indeed, running 32bit code is often faster as it's less sparse and caches better. Cocoa in particular apparently - it's still 32bit in Tiger.

On the X64, the same minuses are there for 64bit code as we have on the Mac. The difference is, the architecture took a leap underneath it doubling registers and so enabling better optimisation of some routines. Microsoft were right in stating more instructions are processed per cycle - AMD say so, Hannibal on Ars Technica says so. On the whole, it should be an upside IF/WHEN there's 64bit applications to go with the OS. Thunking in and out of 32bit mode is going to be a small headache for now though not as bad as the old 16bit/32bit transition in Windows.



There's a very in depth description of the AMD Hammer architecture at http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/amd-hammer-family/ should you be very bored.

And on Ars Technica - http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/cpu/amd-hammer-1.ars

Anyway, can we talk about Macs again. I'm getting hives. ;-)

[geminister]

And Apple realizes that if you ever need to reinstall your OS, you might not want to have to register every time (or they might not want duplicate information in their database, etc.). Also, people might not want Apple to have their info (pirates asdie). It's a 2 way street. People may not want Apple contacting them or mailing them anything. Of course Apple might refuse to offer "support" in this case (though if you ever needed it you could probably just "register" at the time you experienced the problem)... But it's up to the customer which is nice. (Also, the customer could just enter bogus information anyway which is probably worse to apple than no info at all).

but what if you buy the os second hand? or buy a second hand computer? imho apple has no way of knowing which registrations actually are legit. so why should this be dangerous?

[h00ligan]

that is quite inaccurate, to say the least. the loophole only makes it legal for the tracker-sites to run as usual. the act of downloading/sharing a torrent isnt legal though, but it's quite hard to trace.

since the tracker-sites do not violate swedish law, they do not have to give away information about users to anyone.

i can understand why the tracker itself feels the need to ridicule these threats, because it is quite arrogant of all these american lawfirms not to check what the legislation is like in the country they send these letters to.

and when it comes to all other forms of copyright, sweden is in line with the international standards.


You're kidding yourself.. how is it hard to trace.. you just open a given torrent program and read all the ip's of the people from whom you are downloading.

getting nabbed with torrent is as easy as p2p.. maybe more so as you can get company specific faster.

I was really excited about tiger. but as it nears.. i have become indifferent.

[pigwin32]

But it's entirely inconsistent with the rest of the OS. AFAIK it's the only tool with that interface. And I'd expect the icons to move left if I collapse the 'drawer'.
So you're a switcher? Having icons in a consistent location is an important UI design element; it allows the icon location to be learned. When you first use the app you have to go looking for the icon. After you've been using it for a while its location becomes second nature.

I've personally never had a problem with the old drawer metaphor or it's implementation. I've never clicked the wrong application because the drawer doesn't extend all the way up to the titlebar. You also don't seem to understand how they work. If you've still got access to a 10.3 machine, close the drawer, then pick up a mail from your open mailbox and then drag it to the side of the window pane - the drawer slides open for you to drop your mail into a folder. When done it slides away again. That is really cool if you don't want mail taking up masses of screen estate.

You're obviously far more intelligent than I am. Fortunately I have a 15" TiBook so screen real estate isn't really an issue. Personally I prefer to have the drawer open so I can drop mail into folders without having to wait for the drawer to open.

Because now we've got the same three pane classic old style mail application with a grey title bar and grey buttons with icons on and the folders on the left whereas before it looked like an OSX application, not a reskinned copy of Outlook with graphite buttons. The folders were on the right, putting what was important, your mail, in front of you reading from the left. It was a well thought out piece of human interaction.

Last time I checked, Mail is a three pane classic mail application, I'm not sure where you're going with this one. BTW, Outlook also allows you to show/hide the folders bar. Of course with Outlook it's recommended you don't use the preview option, accidentally selecting an email that contains malware can be disastrous.

Go look at the screenshot posted earlier of Mail with Preview behind it. That's two interface styles, and Preview rocks IMHO. And then we've got the iTunes/Finder metal style.

Yep, no argument there, Apple can't seem to get it's own apps to look the same. Too many smart people spoil the interface?

[gadget-uk]

OK, moving on from piracy..... and back to Tiger itself.

There seems to be some general confusion about what makes it so special and why SJ would say that it's Apple's most important release since the original Macintosh in 1984. The apple site (http://www.apple.com/macosx/newfeatures/over200.html) says there are over 200 "new" features but having had a quick scan of these it's clear that the majority are just updates - and iterative updates at that, there is very little groundbreaking going on.

I'm sure Spotlight is excellent and clever and will make old-fashioned "brute force" searching seem pre-historic, but to be honest I rarely have to search my computer - I know where most things are because I file them carefully. I can imagine that developers and artists will find it invaluable though, so I'll give Tiger that one.

Dashboard looks to be very pretty, I'm sure it'll get the biggest "oooo" for Tiger and with so many people talking about bedroom widget development there is bound to be a tool for every job... but nothing that couldn't be done already with a bit of XML, HTML, Applescript surely? Desktop weather, stock, news, google... etc have been available for ages on Mac and windoze too. I'll grant you that Dashboard will consolidate these and make them all tres joli but it's not earth shattering and I can't see much longevity in any but the best few widgets.

That's about it really, RSS beendone, iChatAV beendone... I know there are other things going on under the hood, some of which will mean more to some people than others but claiming 200+ "new" features is dodgy marketing if you ask me. New Quicktime codecs, web-page archiving and some new desktop pictures don't make this worth $130 hard-earned or the "biggest thing since the original Mac" accolades.

Don't get me wrong, I've got it on pre-order and I'll be enthusiastically upgrading the minute it arrives, I just don't see what all the fuss is about - is it just a case of "up yours, Bill" or am I missing something fundamental? Will Tiger change my life?

[Colonel Panik]

With any purchase you make, you get a warranty for a certain number of days. The registration, apart from providing some statistical data for Apple to play with, is a way of telling Apple that you bought your copy on this date. Then they don't have to support you if you call with a problem 91 days later.

David Pogue, in one of his books, recommends that you don't register until you need support. At that point you can say that you've just purchased the software.

[h00ligan]

With any purchase you make, you get a warranty for a certain number of days. The registration, apart from providing some statistical data for Apple to play with, is a way of telling Apple that you bought your copy on this date. Then they don't have to support you if you call with a problem 91 days later.

David Pogue, in one of his books, recommends that you don't register until you need support. At that point you can say that you've just purchased the software.

right, which is why you tell your parents and other computerly challenged, not to register until they really have to call.. and say they just bought it.

[The Truth]

Has anyone else noticed that Safari 1 was able to access many more pages than Safari 2? I keep getting the "page not found" messages yet the pages open fine in Internet Explorer.

[jblakeh1]

I'm not installing Tiger on my current Powerbook - it's time to upgrade my hardware. Does anyone have any idea if I'll be able to walk out of the Apple Store tiger event tomorrow with a Powerbook with Tiger, or are they going to expect me to pay the up-to-date fee and wait for the disc to arrive? If so I won't be happy...

Update: I went to the Apple Store at lunch and asked... they'll include a tiger dvd. Woo hoo!