PowerMac G5 Upgrades Announced (Officially)

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Following yesterday's premature specifications (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2005/04/20050426090641.shtml) by Amazon.com, Apple has released upgraded PowerMac G5s in the following configurations:

Single 1.8GHz PowerPC G5
600MHz frontside bus
512K L2 cache
256MB DDR400 SDRAM
Expandable to 4GB SDRAM
80GB Serial ATA
8x SuperDrive
Three PCI Slots
NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 Ultra
64MB DDR video memory
56K internal modem

Dual 2GHz PowerPC G5
1GHz frontside
bus/processor
512K L2 cache/processor
512MB DDR400 SDRAM
Expandable to 4GB SDRAM
160GB Serial ATA
16x SuperDrive (double-layer)
Three PCI Slots
ATI Radeon 9600
128MB DDR video memory

Dual 2.3GHz PowerPC G5
1.15GHz frontside
bus/processor
512K L2 cache/processor
512MB DDR400 SDRAM
Expandable to 8GB SDRAM
250GB Serial ATA
16x SuperDrive (double-layer)
Three PCI-X Slots
ATI Radeon 9600
128MB DDR video memory

Dual 2.7GHz PowerPC G5
1.35GHz frontside
bus/processor
512K L2 cache/processor
512MB DDR400 SDRAM
Expandable to 8GB SDRAM
250GB Serial ATA
16x SuperDrive (double-layer)
Three PCI-X Slots
ATI Radeon 9650
256MB DDR video memory

All models feature 1-2 day shipping times, meaning new product should be available in stores immediately for purchase.

[Alchemist]

Dissapointing to be honest. What about the iMac's!? Anyone any ideas what the old UK prices were?

P.S. I was desperately hoping this might be Think Secret being fed dud information. Clearly not.

[VespR]

Price reductions as well on the monitors and the memory :o

That's gonna make selling my 23" in May a lot more harder! Gawdamnit Apple :)

[HelloKitty]

Well..too bad no 970MP..

Guess will to have to wait until next time..But the price reduction on CPU+monitor is not bad, actually :)

[jelloshotsrule]

now have bto option for up to 2x400 gb hard drives. as unexcited as i am about the processor and stuff, i think it's a stop gap, and as such, it could be worse.... i think.

[AoWolf]

Looks like thinksecret was right. They are taking all the fun out of this. Somewhat unimpressive but oh well time to start thinking about WWDC.

[JtheLemur]

Yeesh, talk about a crap upgrade. I'm going back to bed. Wake me up when we hit 3GHz.

[Capt Underpants]

What the heck is a Radeon 9650? Get on the ball, Apple. We need x800's for top of the line graphics card. Atleast put a 9800 Pro in it...

[wheezy]

Looks good to me. When you can build your 3Ghz, wake me up from bed.

[gorkonapple]

I think the coolest thing on the list is the double layer DVD drives. 16 X Double Layer drives! Probably won't work too well for regular video DVD's, but for Data Storage? Man it's like, what 8 gigs on a disc now??

[KindredMAC]

I'm more disappointed that there is not a Single 2.0GHz than anything.
BUT
BUT
BUT, the 20" and 23" Displays were cheapened up a bit. I want to get the 20" and now for $799???.... Now I like that!

[crap freakboy]

Im just hoping the UK refurb section will offer some goodies next week, probably not though theyre usually 'as tight as a nats chuff'. Great now its raining cats and dogs outside. It never rains...

[UWF404]

What are the technical challenges to offering a 9800 Radeon?? 9650? Seems asinine.

[Procyon lotor]

I love how I've had my computer for six months now and it's still "new" and cost the same. Talk about potential resell value. :D

/owner of the single 1.8GHz G5 PM

[xli_ne]

Looks like thinksecret hit this one right on the nose and now hopefully the older g5's will get cheaper and cheaper :D

[ImAlwaysRight]

Actually, the low end PM was not upgraded at all, was it?

And MacRumors has not posted this juicy bit of info released yesterday on ThinkSecret:

While new iMac G5 and eMac systems are not yet in the hands of stores, the updated systems are likely to still debut this week alongside new Power Mac G5 systems, although they may not be immediately available.

[AdamZ]

Yeesh, talk about a crap upgrade. I'm going back to bed. Wake me up when we hit 3GHz.

10 months for this??!! Come on now. And yes Apple Insider and Think Secret are ruining it just a little bit I think.

[mootpoint]

Hmm.

On the plus side the Cinema Display's have been reduced in the UK.

20" now £549.99 from £699.00.

[RAS admin]

Too bad those DVD+R DL discs don't play in any regular standalone DVD players...

[toontra]

I think the coolest thing on the list is the double layer DVD drives. 16 X Double Layer drives! Probably won't work too well for regular video DVD's, but for Data Storage? Man it's like, what 8 gigs on a disc now??

Hardy a readson to buy a new G5 - dual-layer DVD drives (the ones Apple use) can be bought for a few dollars & easily fitted to current (& older) machines.

Nothing to see here - move along!

[klaus]

Well,

The upgrades aren't that impressive, but we figured that one out already with all the leaks lately.. dual cores are just not ready I suppose.


Talking about leaks, there were stories that they would drop the liquid cooling used in the 2.5 machines, because of issues with the longivity of this technology. Those were not exactly correct, because the 2.7 still has liquid cooling

I'm glad they stick with liquid cooling, cause if they would've obsoleted it, that would mean they truly are having doubts about it, and that wouldn't be nice for my G5 2.5.

No I can rely on the fact that the liquid cooling has been tested enough to be used for many many years.

[JasonL]

The dual 1.8 is on sale now for $1499, too.

[wrldwzrd89]

I'm pleased with these updates, if for no other reason than the inclusion of a dual-layer SuperDrive.

[ramallite]

I'm actually excited that for $50 more you can go from a 128 MB graphics card to 256 MB... I know it's not the X800 but that's probably good enough for Doom 3, etc...

[nrd]

I'm still waiting for them to put in something faster than a 56k modem. This is such a let down. Damn you Apple! Why won't you listen to us! :(

[macorama]

Anyone any ideas what the old UK prices were?

Still £999 for the 1.8GHz single CPU model? That hasn't changed, I thought at least that would go down if they kept that model.

Edit: added an item on my site so you can predict when we'll finally be rid of the 1.8GHz model (http://macpredict.com)

[Lurch_Mojoff]

For those of you with "expensive carpets", who didn't read my post on the other thread, the 2.7GHz PMs are still liquid cooled.

So much for the 970GX speculations.

:D :D :D

[JRM PowerPod]

Let the bitching begin....

It already has

Where's the
-Dual Core
-3GHZ
-Dual Dual Core
-PCI-Express
-X800
-DDR2 533mhz
-or DDR2 667mhz
-Why is there still water
-970GX
-970MP
-980?
-Power5
-Cell
-Built in Wireless
-Built in Bluetooth
-Built in 56k modem
-What have I forgotten

I think I'll have a:
Dual 2.3GHZ
4GB Ram
250GB
6800 Ultra
16X Dual Layer
(EDU)

Although all the negatives, it's still a formidable machine. Extremely formidable. That would destroy most x86's, and with Tiger and FC Studio it'll fly.

[sonny]

am i noticing it late or did the displays just drop in price?

20" $799

23" $1499

[nagromme]

I wish they had G6s etc. but they're certainly not slow!

http://www.apple.com/powermac/performance/

And they're cheaper now by up to $450--if you get a display, at least. (The top Mac no longer needs a $450 GPU upgrade to run the 30"... and the other two sizes of display have dropped in price.)

[Wonder Boy]

10 months for this??!! Come on now. And yes Apple Insider and Think Secret are ruining it just a little bit I think.

ruining what? why are people upset over correct information? maybe its because they don't like what they are hearing. if TS and AI said that the highest CPU would be 2.6 and it turned out to be 2.7, people would be happy? people are mad at TS and AI because they want to deflect criticism from apple. its apples fault these updates suck, not TS or AI's.

[pounce]

do we know if these models still use the amd chip to control the pci slots that the dual 2.5 does? there were some issues with that chip and some pro audio hardware, so lots of audio folks have been watching that in particular. that change (away from the amd controller chip) would be a help.

[1macker1]

I bet the dual 1.8 won't be there for long... that's a good deal.

[Dark Horse]

Hmm....so no consumer mac upgrades til WWDC. Unless you follow the wham bam thank you mam theory of power line, consumer line, tiger wednesday thursday friday. Which I don't. It's a shame they'll be releasing Tiger on iBooks with 256 RAM, since it seems it'll be a little underpowered for such a good OS update.

[DeepDish]

Hardy a readson to buy a new G5 - dual-layer DVD drives (the ones Apple use) can be bought for a few dollars & easily fitted to current (& older) machines.

Nothing to see here - move along!



If I wanted to do this, what model number should I search for for a replacement DL DVD burner for my current G5 (internal)?

If it is only a hundred bucks or so, I would like to be able to burn dual layer porn!

[JRM PowerPod]

am i noticing it late or did the displays just drop in price?

20" $799

23" $1499

I already said that in the other thread, but no one seems to be caring, i thought that was big news as well

[gopher]

One thing that is nice to see:

http://www.apple.com/powermac/performance/

Apple's benchmarks now show more CPUs and more tasks being compared to the G5s. Looks like Intel and AMD are definitely slower on many tasks. Granted on others they may be faster, but at least Apple does have the lead even on their $2000 machines in some categories.

[Fredstar]

Could just be a stop gap till Expo or something this year, who knows. I am liking the new graphics cards and the £30 though.
I am liking the Display price drops, with my 10% discount card that is £500 for a gorgeous 20" display...not much more than the Dell. Perhaps a nice addition to the Mini, hmm.
I was thinking of replacing my iMac (not quite fast enough) with a pmac if the upgrades were decent enough but i think i will stay put and perhaps get 2gig ram.

[jauh]

truelly and utterly pathetic... can't believe they'd actually release out-of date technology as *new*. although I suppose someone does have to help ati get rid of old and unwanted 96xx agp cards...

guess will have to wait for another year for PCIe...

guess it's time for opteron & ati's pcie architectures...

don't think the new G5s will be a big hit, if hit at all...

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

Hmm....so no consumer mac upgrades til WWDC. Unless you follow the wham bam thank you mam theory of power line, consumer line, tiger wednesday thursday friday. Which I don't. It's a shame they'll be releasing Tiger on iBooks with 256 RAM, since it seems it'll be a little underpowered for such a good OS update.Well, there's always tomorrow... and Friday... :)

[marmotte]

Hmm.

On the plus side the Cinema Display's have been reduced in the UK.

20" now £549.99 from £699.00.

I was expecting that price drop: Dell's monitor were way cheaper than Apple's and with all the Mac users posting on those forums about their new Dell monitors, I was sure Apple was seeing a drop in demand.

In any case, that price drop makes Apple monitors a bit more appealing but I think the price drops will have to continue to increase demand again: Dell's 24" monitor can be had for $1020 + no tax + $40 shipping. Apple's 23" monitor is still $1499 + Tax + Free shipping. That's still a $500 difference. You can buy a brand new Mac Mini for that price difference.

MM

[chubad]

I'm still waiting for them to put in something faster than a 56k modem. This is such a let down. Damn you Apple! Why won't you listen to us! :(

How about no modem. The modem is now a $29.00 option. The stock configuration ships without one.

[jamesfowler2k5]

Built for Mac OS X
All Power Mac G5s now ship with Mac OS X v 10.3 "Panther", the world's most advanced operating system.

hmm not very good this is on the powermac details

+ tiger pre installed?

[JRM PowerPod]

Well, there's always tomorrow... and Friday... :)

Or Next Tuesday

[isgoed]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Following yesterday's premature specifications (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2005/04/20050426090641.shtml) by Amazon.com, Apple has released upgraded PowerMac G5s in the following configurations:

Single 1.8GHz PowerPC G5
600MHz frontside bus
512K L2 cache
256MB DDR400 SDRAM
Expandable to 4GB SDRAM
80GB Serial ATA
8x SuperDrive
Three PCI Slots
NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 Ultra
64MB DDR video memory
56K internal modem
The single 1.8 isn't new

[nesbitt_a]

I already said that in the other thread, but no one seems to be caring, i thought that was big news as well

This is huge news. Nice pricing on ACD's now! Quicktime 7 Professional is shipping too, check the Apple Store.

[toontra]

If I wanted to do this, what model number should I search for for a replacement DL DVD burner for my current G5 (internal)?

If it is only a hundred bucks or so, I would like to be able to burn dual layer porn!

Pioneer 108 or 109 will see you OK for for your needs!

[phasornc]

I just wanted to get in my own yawn over this upated. Once again it's 2 year technology for $3000? I'm sure Apples sales of PowerMacs over the next few months will continue to slide. They won't see any action untill we have dual dual-cores (or cheap single dual-cores) and PCIExpress. Dell has been shipping PCI express systems for like a year now. Dual core Pentium 3.8 ghz chips came out earlier this month. With Apples current rate of update I guess we can expect dual cores this time next year. The gigahertz gap has returned, and before any of you fanboys say it doesn't matter, compare performance of the latest VST instruments on Logic 5.5 on current Pentium to the same AU versions of the same plugins on a Mac under Logic 7.

[1macker1]

I Hope this is a typo on apple's part. If it isn't.....then i dont know what to say about apple.
Built for Mac OS X
All Power Mac G5s now ship with Mac OS X v 10.3 "Panther", the world's most advanced operating system.

hmm not very good this is on the powermac details

+ tiger pre installed?

[MustardMan]

I, for one, am not THRILLED by the new specs, but am happy with them. The price drop on the cinema display was what finally prompted me to yank out my credit card and place an order for a dual 2.0 with 23" display. With the edu discount I feel like I'm getting a lot of computer for my money.

[supergod]

And Apple still manages to ship a powermac with standard 256 mb or RAM. What a lark.

I find these updates quite poor overall, but I'm glad they're not very good. That would make me feel inferior about my 1.6ghz Power Mac G5 (as it is, I feel awesome about it!).

I am intrigued however about this Radeon 9650. Does anyone know how it would perform in comparison to a 64mb Radeon 9600 that I have? I've been thinking about upgrading video cards, but only if I saw a notable increase in performance for general OS.

[ender78]

I think the coolest thing on the list is the double layer DVD drives. 16 X Double Layer drives! Probably won't work too well for regular video DVD's, but for Data Storage? Man it's like, what 8 gigs on a disc now??

Too bad there is such a huge premium for the media now [At least here in Canada]

[AidenShaw]

Too bad those DVD+R DL discs don't play in any regular standalone DVD players...

I've been burning double layer disks (Sony 720) from my TiVo, and using them in my Sony home DVD player for a few months. Use them in friend's players, in hotels....

No problems at all.

Almost all commercial movie DVDs are double-layer, and have been since the dawn of the format.

Where'd the "DL won't play in a set-top DVD" rumour come from?

ps: Note that the name is "double layer", not "dual layer". Let's not add confusion by using the wrong name - since when you go to buy blank disks they'll be labeled "double layer"

[Tiauguinho]

This is one heck of a lame update! PCI-Express? Dual Core? LOL! Oh man! The only very good thing about this is that I've been enjoying my Dual G5 2Ghz since it came out... and its still bottom of the line!! Related to the Graphics card... WTF is up with you Apple? Ever heard of good graphics cards? I really advise all users that will get one of these machines and that like to play games to get the X800 XT. It rocks :D

Other the that... Lame update! :mad:

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

Or Next TuesdayI'm not quite sure Tuesday is the preferred day of announcements for Apple, anymore... (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=1413065#post1413065)

[heywhynots]

For individuals buying w/ an educational discount, the prices are as follows:
Single 1.8: $1,349.00 (save $150)
Dual 2.0: $1,799.00 (save $200)
Dual 2.3:$2,299.00 (save $200)
Dual 2.7: $2,699.00 (save $300)

Displays:
20: $699.00 (save $100)
23: $1,299.00 (save $200)
30: $2,699.00 (save $300)

Not bad deals there, especially the dual 2.7. Too bad my G4 500 Mhz machine works just fine with a gig of RAM for what I need a computer at home to do.

[MacsRgr8]

What the heck is a Radeon 9650? Get on the ball, Apple. We need x800's for top of the line graphics card. Atleast put a 9800 Pro in it...

The 9650 gives you a cheap alternative to be able to hook up one 30" Display.

Other than that..... cr@p

No X800 XT as BTO?

[tf23]

Price reductions as well on the monitors and the memory :o

That's gonna make selling my 23" in May a lot more harder! Gawdamnit Apple :)

No reduction on the 30" though :(

[Narles]

Too bad those DVD+R DL discs don't play in any regular standalone DVD players...

I burn double layer DVD videos all of the time using DVD Studio Pro 3 and Toast Titanium and they play fine in standalone DVD players.


I'm so glad I didn't open up my refurbished Power Mac G5 that landed on my doorstep yesterday. It looks like the Refurbished G5 on Apple's website dropped $300 in price from what I paid for it. It's take-back time. I called Apple and they said that they'll even pay for the shipping :D .

[PeterQVenkman]

'm getting a new powerMac today. I want to upgrade the video card for $50 from the ATI Radeon 9600 (two single link DVI ports), but the Radeon 9650 has twice the VRAM, is slightly over clocked, and has ONE dual-link DVI and a ONE single link DVI port.


But does the 9650 support two single link DVI displays (two Dell 17 Ultrasharp FP monitors)? I know I can hook both my monitors up to an ATI 9600. Is it worth the extra $50, and am I able to hook up both single link DVI monitors to the 9650?

I'm very confused and excited!

[drlunanerd]

I think the coolest thing on the list is the double layer DVD drives. 16 X Double Layer drives! Probably won't work too well for regular video DVD's, but for Data Storage? Man it's like, what 8 gigs on a disc now??

I'm sorry, but everyone knows this is not cool at all. 16x double layer drives have been available very cheaply for months now, and easily retro-fitted to the old PM models. This is not a great update, and I'm deeply disappointed as I was in fact about to buy a new PM. I'll be looking at second hand units until Apple release something that's worth their inflated new prices.

[isgoed]

they no longer sell the radeon 9800! And since they stopped selling the 6800GT, this means that there now is a gap in the line-up. You must either buy a mediocre 9600 or an expensive 6800Ultra. I say 6600 ultra soon.

[Dark Horse]

Unless you follow the wham bam thank you mam theory of power line, consumer line, tiger wednesday thursday friday. Which I don't don't.
Well, there's always tomorrow... and Friday...
Or Next Tuesday

But there aren't even any grounded rumours about any of those options....just hopeful speculation on our part!

[alandail]

Too bad those DVD+R DL discs don't play in any regular standalone DVD players...

Sure they can - it's quite common for commercial DVDs to be dual layer. And Apple specifically mentions using iDVD to make longer movies with the dual layer drive.

[tf23]

The dual 1.8 is on sale now for $1499, too.

I think the price on that should be $999. For heaven's sake, the 1.6GHz G5 iMac, that comes with a *screen*, is $1299!

How much can a few PCI slots, different motherboard and heftier case sans monitor really be costing Apple with the 1.8 Powermac?

[Rob0711]

how comes the single g5 isn´t talked about anymore anywhere on the official site ?... the info page states that there are only 3 dual g5 systems... (at least on the new german subsite). so will this one still be dropped ?
i know the single cpu version is still in the store... but i can´t find a reference to it in the copy text...
power mac mini ? ... i know i posted this before but i guess in an already dead thread...

[Bear]

'm getting a new powerMac today. I want to upgrade the video card for $50 from the ATI Radeon 9600 (two single link DVI ports), but the Radeon 9650 has twice the VRAM, is slightly over clocked, and has ONE dual-link DVI and a ONE single link DVI port.


But does the 9650 support two single link DVI displays (two Dell 17 Ultrasharp FP monitors)? I know I can hook both my monitors up to an ATI 9600. Is it worth the extra $50, and am I able to hook up both single link DVI monitors to the 9650?

I'm very confused and excited!Yes, the 9650 can support two "single link" DVI monitors. the dual-link DVI ports can support regular DVI displays as well.

[broken_keyboard]

And Apple still manages to ship a powermac with standard 256 mb or RAM. What a lark.

Yes... on the 1.8. I thought their new policy was 512 minimum? Another false rumor?

[pgre]

Anyone any ideas what the old UK prices were?

Still £999 for the 1.8GHz single CPU model? That hasn't changed, I thought at least that would go down if they kept that model.

Edit: added an item on my site so you can predict when we'll finally be rid of the 1.8GHz model (http://macpredict.com)

They wee a bit dearer.... since I have just ordered a Dual 2.0 for less than the old Dual 1.8 was.. and it has a 250GB disk (upgrade) and I ordered the 9650 and Bluetooth module as well and it was about the same.

I nearly went for the dual 2.3 which was about the same as the old 2.0 prices but I just couldn't justify the extra 300 when I can spend that on software and memory upgrades. (Still cheaper from Crucial etc).

Looking forward to this machine though.. loads of video editing to do and it will be quicker than doing it on my Powerbook!

[840quadra]

I've been burning double layer disks (Sony 720) from my TiVo, and using them in my Sony home DVD player for a few months. Use them in friend's players, in hotels....

No problems at all.

Almost all commercial movie DVDs are double-layer, and have been since the dawn of the format.

Where'd the "DL won't play in a set-top DVD" rumour come from?

ps: Note that the name is "double layer", not "dual layer". Let's not add confusion by using the wrong name - since when you go to buy blank disks they'll be labeled "double layer"


Aiden is correct,


If you ever watch a DVD on an older DVD player you will notice when it switches layers. The DVD will stutter about mid way through the film for no apparent reason. Newer DVD players have higher buffers and the shift is much less noticeable.

[ACED]

How can Apple keep a straight face with this offering! ...

I was looking at getting a 9600 card way more than a year ago for my games PC ... and it was a mid range, year old card then! I didn't get it then, why would I want it now???

There is just is no excuse for using old components, they must have got a batch of the old almost obsolete AGP variety, very cheap.

I'd describe this update as more of a hardware "patch" so that business can 'feel' like they're ordering the latest and greatest PMs.

I'm predicting most hold off purchasing.

[Bear]

Yes... on the 1.8. I thought their new policy was 512 minimum? Another false rumor?The 1.8 is not an updated machine. Its specs are the same as before. I'm sure if it had been updated, it would've gotten more memory.

[Gorbag]

Im just hoping the UK refurb section will offer some goodies next week, probably not though theyre usually 'as tight as a nats chuff'. Great now its raining cats and dogs outside. It never rains...

Well I'll be checking the refurbs, too.

And it's thunder here in Acton, now...

[DakotaGuy]

I had to say it, because no one even mentioned it, but these are AVAILABLE NOW! Well 2-3 Day shipping times. What is better??? 200Mhz improvement on the top end now OR a 500Mhz improvement on the top model with a 3-4 month wait??? Or announce Dual Cores today with a (up to 6 month wait for shipping). Apple has done that many times before. At least they are giving us a little improvement, right here, right now...instead of what happened with the last update to 2.5... Does ANYONE remember the fiasco of getting the first 2.5 models shipped? Or maybe everyone has a short memory.

[iGary]

The single 1.8 isn't new

No, it isn't, but the price should have dropped 200 bucks on it. :rolleyes:

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

But there aren't even any grounded rumours about any of those options....just hopeful speculation on our part!Nah... It would be odd if Apple sold machines that weren't able to accomodate all features in the current OS, hence there should at least be a small bump in graphics cards (and maybe RAM) on those machines not on the Core Images supported graphics card list... and the rumor that Apple's complete lineup will move to 512 MB RAM is an old one...

[G.Kirby]

Just bought my 2ghz with a 256Mb card. I AM ONE HAPPY HAPPY CHAPPY! :D

Should have it in about 6 days or so.

[hob]

how comes the single g5 isn´t talked about anymore anywhere on the official site ?... the info page states that there are only 3 dual g5 systems... (at least on the new german subsite). so will this one still be dropped ?
i know the single cpu version is still in the store... but i can´t find a reference to it in the copy text...
power mac mini ? ... i know i posted this before but i guess in an already dead thread...
Yeah I noticed that too - always referring to the dual-processor systems - "Dual-Processor Power from only £1,300" or whatever...

I'm afraid I was waiting for today for a long time so despite the fact the upgrades are mind-blowing, all I was going for was a dual-2GHz anyway... Think I might have to get one of those funky displays for my birthday now :D (Hob loves educational discount)

[blackcrayon]

I'm glad they stick with liquid cooling, cause if they would've obsoleted it, that would mean they truly are having doubts about it, and that wouldn't be nice for my G5 2.5.

No I can rely on the fact that the liquid cooling has been tested enough to be used for many many years.

Doesn't mean they didn't improve to "Liquid Cooling 1.1" which fixes all the nasty leaks and dumping of gallons of coolant all over the floor that occurred with the 1.0 version you have ;)

(joke :)

[Dark Horse]

... and the rumor that Apple's complete lineup will move to 512 MB RAM is an old one...

I just hope they get the update tomorrow or friday so I can buy an iBook with 512 RAM without paying the upgrade.

</cheapskate>

[iGary]

Just bought my 2ghz with a 256Mb card. I AM ONE HAPPY HAPPY CHAPPY! :D

Should have it in about 6 days or so.

Nice price point on that machine. I'm trying to hold myself back from pulling the trigger.

Congrats!

[PeterQVenkman]

Yes, the 9650 can support two "single link" DVI monitors. the dual-link DVI ports can support regular DVI displays as well.


Bling! Thank you Bear! Off to order one now!

[tf23]

Dell's 24" monitor can be had for $1020 + no tax + $40 shipping.
MM

I got mine for under $1k straight from Dell a week or so ago. Love it. If the Apple would have been within $100-$200 of that, I'd have ordered it from Apple.

Yes, I read all the people complaining about the Dell lcd quality around the 'net, but I also saw people complaining about Apple's (though, to a far lesser extent).

I figured with the $ savings, it's worth the risk. So far, it's been an excellen screen :)

[840quadra]

I am glad I got my 2.0 when I did!

The only negative issue with the new Dual 2.0 is the fact that it only supports 4gb of memory, as opposed to 8gb support by the previous generation. The new 2.0 is also sans the PCI-X slots that the previous model had.

I have just ordered a Dual Layer DVD burner for my PM, so I should be slightly better then the new model once it arrives :)

[cjeukens]

Fed up with Bill Gates and the Intel maffia I was driven to Apple.
Just at the point where I made my choice, the Apple dealer told me to hold my horses for 2 weeks.

I've read all the rumours and can imagine the disappointment of a many, but evolution has a longer breath than any big bang.

I'm happy with my new purchase and hope the chosen technology will prove to hold out for a couple of years.

The only negative: Apple - learn how to deal with the internal memory thing.

[840quadra]

How can Apple keep a straight face with this offering! ...

I was looking at getting a 9600 card way more than a year ago for my games PC ... and it was a mid range, year old card then! I didn't get it then, why would I want it now???

There is just is no excuse for using old components, they must have got a batch of the old almost obsolete AGP variety, very cheap.

I'd describe this update as more of a hardware "patch" so that business can 'feel' like they're ordering the latest and greatest PMs.

I'm predicting most hold off purchasing.


When I bought my last PC nobody was selling a Video card I wanted to have as standard. Everything that was worth having was Aftermarket, and or an option.

Unless you are buying an alienware or other gamer system, most stock video cards are sub par in the eyes of true power users. So in all actuality, Apple is not THAT far of the pace.

[JRM PowerPod]

When will Apple update the Aussie Edu page so i can config a new machine?

I'm waiting, but want to sleep

[cal6n]

It's been raining in Stafford all day... :(

Blue skies and sunshine in Brighton! :cool:

(bit blowy, though)

[Gorbag]

It's been raining in Stafford all day... :(

Sun's just coming out now, here. Will it make it's mind up?????

Think the 2.3 Ghz dual is probably what i will get, but only when i manage to find a new job.

Redundancy sucks.
(at least in the Employment world)

[paulypants]

ATI 9650 LOL what a joke!
Worst Powermac I've seen in a long time,
sales are going to slump even more and
they can blame themselves for that...

[Yvan256]

I just hope they get the update tomorrow or friday so I can buy an iBook with 512 RAM without paying the upgrade.

</cheapskate>

I'm also hoping for an update, but I'd rather have a better GPU and/or more VRAM than 512MB default (especially if the 512MB means 256MB on-board and 256MB in the only memory slot, which means you have to remove it to upgrade, like the Mac mini - which I still think should've come with 256MB on-board too).

[AidenShaw]

Interesting article on how double-layer disks work:

http://www.windowsusers.org/double_layer.html

Double Layer DVD technology is not new. Commonly called “DVD9,” Hollywood has been churning out major motion pictures on stamped Double Layer DVD Discs for years.

How else could they include the full length movie plus all the bonus materials commonly found on today’s DVDs?

Because Double Layer technology has always been part of the DVD specifications, Double Layer DVD Recording on the desktop is the natural progression of single layer 4.7GB recordable technology.

[Blue Moon]

Hmm....so no consumer mac upgrades til WWDC. Unless you follow the wham bam thank you mam theory of power line, consumer line, tiger wednesday thursday friday. Which I don't. It's a shame they'll be releasing Tiger on iBooks with 256 RAM, since it seems it'll be a little underpowered for such a good OS update.

With iMac shipping dates being a full week, I would be surprised if we DIDN'T see a refresh in that line up this week.

[joecool85]

I'm personally waiting for PB and mini(mac and iPod) updates. Even though its only a 200mhz upgrade on the top end, at least its something. I think Apple is keeping up with the competitors. I've used a dual 1.8 for photoshopping and it kicks the pants of any PC I've used for the same stuff.

[snofseth]

Now I am not sure which powermac to get I could get the single 1.8 and give it the ATI 9600 or will I be better off with the old dual 1.8 or possibly 2.0, which do not have as good of a video card, how much better is a dual versus a better video card?

[Gorbag]

http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/index.cfm?NewsID=11430

Maybe it's actually true????

Yeaaaaah. Riiiiight.

[DakotaGuy]

One other thing this signals, with the 1.8Ghz single model sticking around for awhile longer, is iMac's won't be updated anytime soon. That is ok with me though, since I am still current for a little while longer. Like I said before, however, better for Apple to have a smaller update that is available now, then announce one today and take 3 or 4 months to get the thing shipped out in any decent quanities.

[crap freakboy]

Just bought my 2ghz with a 256Mb card. I AM ONE HAPPY HAPPY CHAPPY! :D

Should have it in about 6 days or so.

**turns green with envy**

[G.Kirby]

Nice price point on that machine. I'm trying to hold myself back from pulling the trigger.

Congrats!

Yup! :D

for the same price as a Dual1.8 G5 I got a Dual 2Ghz with twice the RAM and HD, 4x the graphics card and a faster FS bus. This would now have been the case last week when i was going to buy but I held on.

And the head line read 'Cat get ALL the cream' :D

No modem, I wonder if the APXtreme is finally going to get an ADSL. :rolleyes:

[mandis]

Apple must be the only company I know that deliberately cripples its older systems in order to make the new systems look better!!!! :mad:

What the ******* happened to the dual 2.0Ghz G5 model? And Why? :eek:

And for heavens sake why did they discontinue the dual 2.5Ghz G5? :confused:

Is the newly introduced 2.3ghz supposed to improve anything? :rolleyes:

[IMG]

[Hiroshige]

-Disappointed that there is no 970GX. It's probably IBM's fault.
-The dual 2 GHZ is the sweet spot, although as usual they cripple a good machine.
-They need a mid-range video card.
-Still hoping for a dual core machine at WWDC.
-If they can get the GX out by September with a speed bump (say 2.3, 2.7 and 3.0) and offer a high end dual dual core (in effect quad), the machines will have good specs for the high volume season.

[itsa]

• Dual 2.7GHz PowerPC G4
• 2GB DDR400 SDRAM (PC3200)
• 400GB Serial ATA - 7200rpm
• ATI Radeon 9650 w/256MB DDR SDRAM
• 16x SuperDrive double-layer (DVD+R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
• Apple Keyboard & Apple Mouse - U.S. English
• Mac OS X - U.S. English <--- In the BOX!

• Apple Cinema Display (20" flat panel) 699.99

ON IT'S WAY!!!! 8 to 10 days
Oh I'm soooo happy I waited!

[Yvan256]

I just hope they get the update tomorrow or friday so I can buy an iBook with 512 RAM without paying the upgrade.

</cheapskate>

I'm also hoping for an update, but I'd rather have a better GPU and/or more VRAM than 512MB default (especially if the 512MB means 256MB on-board and 256MB in the only memory slot, which means you have to remove it to upgrade, like the Mac mini - which I still think should've come with 256MB on-board too).

[DakotaGuy]

http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/index.cfm?NewsID=11430

Maybe it's actually true????

Yeaaaaah. Riiiiight.

At this point Apple is so deep into the PowerPC market with it's OS and programs, and entire line-up including G4 and G5 models, it would be CORPORATE SUICIDE to do that. I am not even going into what a mess that would turn Apple into at this point. I know people will jump up and down and wish that it would happen, but I don't think you would want to see the outcome. And for what? No one can prove OSX and the Apple programs would run better and faster on x86.

[DakotaGuy]

What the ******* happened to the dual 2.0Ghz G5 model? And Why? :eek:

And for heavens sake why did they discontinue the dual 2.5Ghz G5? :confused:

Is the newly introduced 2.3ghz supposed to improve anything? :rolleyes:

[IMG]

I don't understand your post. Last I checked the Dual 2Ghz machine is available at the low end. The 2.5 is gone because they have a 2.7 now. And last the 2.3 is an improvement over the last mid level model which was a 2Ghz.

[tdewey]

For an interim upgrade, seems acceptable to me--I expect something new for the PM line at WWDC (likely a replacement only for the top-of-the line 2.7Ghz machine with the 970MP: giving a PM line of 1.8, dual 2.0, dual 2.3 and Dual-core Dual 2.3, getting rid of liquid cooling).

However... I am surprised that a) the 1.8 machine is at the same price point yet b) hasn't been upgraded to 512MB ram or the 16x Burner or the 9600 GPU.

Keeping the price-point, that makes sense. Not upgrading the RAM/Burner or GPU for Tiger--well that's just stupid. Why on earth would anyone buy a 1.8 for 1,500 when for $500 more they could get the dual 2.0 w/ all the extras?

[cr2sh]

Apple must be the only company I know that deliberately cripples its older systems in order to make the new systems look better!!!! :mad:

What the ******* happened to the dual 2.0Ghz G5 model? And Why? :eek:

And for heavens sake why did they discontinue the dual 2.5Ghz G5? :confused:

Is the newly introduced 2.3ghz supposed to improve anything? :rolleyes:


Apple has done this frequently in the past... it's a method of keeping the old Top of the Line folks happy.

Their 2.5 machines aren't second fiddle discount models now... they don't feel quite as bad.

[rog]

I think the coolest thing on the list is the double layer DVD drives. 16 X Double Layer drives! Probably won't work too well for regular video DVD's, but for Data Storage? Man it's like, what 8 gigs on a disc now??

Yeah, and I've had one for $60 in my MDD for the past 3 months. Apple charges $100. Order the combo drive, sell on ebay for $50, buy the superdrive from new egg for $60, and you've saved 100 bucks. This is hardly an exciting upgrade. 2 optical slots, now that would be exciting.

[840quadra]

I don't understand your post. Last I checked the Dual 2Ghz machine is available at the low end. The 2.5 is gone because they have a 2.7 now. And last the 2.3 is an improvement over the last mid level model which was a 2Ghz.

compare the new 2.0 with the last 2 generations. It is obvious why he is he is complaining. I have made a previous post why also.

[Kerry Sanders]

Or Next Tuesday

Or next year. :D

[Yvan256]

At this point Apple is so deep into the PowerPC market with it's OS and programs, and entire line-up including G4 and G5 models, it would be CORPORATE SUICIDE to do that. I am not even going into what a mess that would turn Apple into at this point. I know people will jump up and down and wish that it would happen, but I don't think you would want to see the outcome. And for what? No one can prove OSX and the Apple programs would run better and faster on x86.

Especially intel... geeze. If people want to start (stupid) rumors, at least put some thought into it... Like "Apple going to switch to AMD-x86".

In any case, IBM has more powerful processors right now. Intel and AMD look like jokes compared to that. Problem is, those processors are very costly. But it does mean IBM already has more in store for Apple.

[Gorbag]

At this point Apple is so deep into the PowerPC market with it's OS and programs, and entire line-up including G4 and G5 models, it would be CORPORATE SUICIDE to do that. I am not even going into what a mess that would turn Apple into at this point. I know people will jump up and down and wish that it would happen, but I don't think you would want to see the outcome. And for what? No one can prove OSX and the Apple programs would run better and faster on x86.

Sorry, i must have left out the <sarcasm> </sarcasm>tags...!

[DakotaGuy]

Not upgrading the GPU for Tiger--well that's just stupid.

Although I could not agree more that the 1.8 single should have been updated with more RAM, a better video card, and a 2.0Ghz processor, The 5200 Ultra while not a great card is Tiger Compatible. The problem Apple has with Tiger is their models with 9200's in them, like the eMac and Mac Mini. I can't believe they would not spend about $5 more max and put at least a 5200 Ultra in the Mac Mini for Tiger and Core Image.

[840quadra]

• Dual 2.7GHz PowerPC G4
• 2GB DDR400 SDRAM (PC3200)
• 400GB Serial ATA - 7200rpm
• ATI Radeon 9650 w/256MB DDR SDRAM
• 16x SuperDrive double-layer (DVD+R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
• Apple Keyboard & Apple Mouse - U.S. English
• Mac OS X - U.S. English <--- In the BOX!

• Apple Cinema Display (20" flat panel) 699.99

ON IT'S WAY!!!! 8 to 10 days
Oh I'm soooo happy I waited!

congrats!!!

I am glad I DIDN'T wait, I was in the market for the 2.0 and got one just in time :)

The 2.7 is my Dream machine, you got in at a good time!!

[Kerry Sanders]

Do you fellow MacRumors members believe it is worth the extra $500 for the dual 2.3 GHz system with the added hard drive space and the three PCI-X slots (as compared to PCI)? I have never owned a Mac, but I am planning to buy one now. I had been waiting to see if Apple made any announcements.

Thanks for any advice you can offer my way.

[quta]

On order for me:
--------------------
Dual 2.7, GeForce 6800, Bluetooth + Wifi card, modem, extra 2 GB from crucial.com, and a second 250 GB drive from a local retailer...expensive, but built to last! I got the edu discount so that takes the sting out a little bit. It will go very nicely with my 20" ACD and bluetooth keyboard currently in use with my 12 inch PB.

[G5Unit]

Atleast now I don't hve to feel bad that the single 1.8(which I have) costs less...

[gopher]

I'm still waiting for them to put in something faster than a 56k modem. This is such a let down. Damn you Apple! Why won't you listen to us! :(

They have Gigabit ethernet built-in. They have fiberchannel as optional addon. What more could you want?

[DakotaGuy]

compare the new 2.0 with the last 2 generations. It is obvious why he is he is complaining. I have made a previous post why also.

BUT, the new 2.3Ghz model is at the same price point as the OLD 2.0 Model. How is the 2.3Ghz model not an improvement? Remember the "new" 2.0 Ghz is taking up the role of the economy Dual system now.

[jauh]

If I wanted to do this, what model number should I search for for a replacement DL DVD burner for my current G5 (internal)?

If it is only a hundred bucks or so, I would like to be able to burn dual layer porn!

any ATAPI burner should do, doubt it will be even a hundred bucks tho'

[immac]

:( Oh man. say it ain't so..... I don't usually join the bitchfest but this is too sad to ignore.

They really needed to hit one outta the park and this is an infield fly- no maybe a sacrifice fly... for dirty dollar download commerce . Well, naive to think anything is more important than Wallstreet.

Christ I hope Tiger gives a big performance boost. I'm gonna have to wear Nomex just to check my email when the fanboys see this.....

I need a purple pill.

[Dark Horse]

With iMac shipping dates being a full week, I would be surprised if we DIDN'T see a refresh in that line up this week.

True, a good point. But then I'm surprised TS/AI etc aren't saying as predicted PMs have been upgraded today, and consumer upgrades will be tomorrow/friday/a week after the next full moon.

[840quadra]

Do you fellow MacRumors members believe it is worth the extra $500 for the dual 2.3 GHz system with the added hard drive space and the three PCI-X slots (as compared to PCI)? I have never owned a Mac, but I am planning to buy one now. I had been waiting to see if Apple made any announcements.

Thanks for any advice you can offer my way.

The fact that the 2.3 has more upgrade potential is a good thing if you plan on keeping it. The 2.3 will go up-to 8gb of memory.

If you don't intend on keeping the box for a long time, nor plan on going above 4gb of memory, it may not be worth it to get the 2.3 for you. You can still get the old model 2.0 at a considerable savings on the refurbish site, and get the same advantages as the new 2.3, besides the processor speed.

[Davito]

-Disappointed that there is no 970GX.

Could somebody please explain me what the GX means in 970GX (I've seen other 2-letter combinations also, i have no idea what the mean, but I would like to know)...

Sorry for the stupid question :o

[DakotaGuy]

• Dual 2.7GHz PowerPC G4
• 2GB DDR400 SDRAM (PC3200)
• 400GB Serial ATA - 7200rpm
• ATI Radeon 9650 w/256MB DDR SDRAM
• 16x SuperDrive double-layer (DVD+R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
• Apple Keyboard & Apple Mouse - U.S. English
• Mac OS X - U.S. English <--- In the BOX!

• Apple Cinema Display (20" flat panel) 699.99

ON IT'S WAY!!!! 8 to 10 days
Oh I'm soooo happy I waited!

Hey nice computer! No matter what some might say on these message boards, you will have one KICK A** computer there!

[xsnightclub]

Good for the price cuts.

Now a similarily configured 20" 1.8g iMac is only $474 cheaper than a PM.

I definitely would have looked to upgrading to the PM when I bought my 20" iMac if there was a less than $500 difference.

It looks as if Apple is really getting the inline pricing right in the product line. About a $500 jump gets you to the next model, that is very tempting when getting a new computer

[adamfilip]

Well..too bad no 970MP..

Guess will to have to wait until next time..But the price reduction on CPU+monitor is not bad, actually :)


I agree the monitor price drop is more interesting then the powermacs

[CTerry]

Any improvements better than no improvement in my book. Yeah I wish we lived in a world with 4 GHz Dual Core Dual Processor G5 PowerMacs and 2.5 GHz PowerBook G5s too but sometimes things don't come out the way we wish. I'd like to see someone who finds a Dual 2.7 GHz PowerMac too slow for their needs. OK yes its not the fastest chip on Earth, and I wouldn't be surprised if someone releases some benchmarks soon showing a 3.7 GHz P4 EE, a dual 3.6 GHz Xeon, an Athlon 64 FX-55 and dual Opterons all successfully defeating Apple.

At the end of the day the issue is that Apple continues to gain speed, that their machines are fast enough to remain competitive (a benchmark of 3 seconds less on several minutes of video editing I don't give a damn about, who's going to notice 3 measly seconds in real life?) and that they continue to offer the software that matters.

Plus Tiger is out soon, and with each OS X release Macs had sped up. Though I haven't seen anything definitive on this issue, I suspect the same will be true of Tiger, not to mention the time saved through extra efficiency thanks to features like Spotlight, and Automator.

[duffman9000]

I just wanted to get in my own yawn over this upated. Once again it's 2 year technology for $3000? I'm sure Apples sales of PowerMacs over the next few months will continue to slide. They won't see any action untill we have dual dual-cores (or cheap single dual-cores) and PCIExpress. Dell has been shipping PCI express systems for like a year now. Dual core Pentium 3.8 ghz chips came out earlier this month. With Apples current rate of update I guess we can expect dual cores this time next year. The gigahertz gap has returned, and before any of you fanboys say it doesn't matter, compare performance of the latest VST instruments on Logic 5.5 on current Pentium to the same AU versions of the same plugins on a Mac under Logic 7.

Dude WTF are you talking about? Dual cores at 3.8 gig? If you're going to troll do it right.

[Lacero]

Apple might add an Ultra high-end PowerMac at WWDC for $3999. The specs for the processor might be dual-core dual G5 chips running at 2.0 or 2.5 GHz.

[Yvan256]

Although I could not agree more that the 1.8 single should have been updated with more RAM, a better video card, and a 2.0Ghz processor, The 5200 Ultra while not a great card is Tiger Compatible. The problem Apple has with Tiger is their models with 9200's in them, like the eMac and Mac Mini. I can't believe they would not spend about $5 more max and put at least a 5200 Ultra in the Mac Mini for Tiger and Core Image.

Add the iBook to the 9200 list.

[840quadra]

BUT, the new 2.3Ghz model is at the same price point as the OLD 2.0 Model. How is the 2.3Ghz model not an improvement? Remember the "new" 2.0 Ghz is taking up the role of the economy Dual system now.

I understand what you are saying.

however, it is still a crippled system when compared to the old model. And the poster has a good point, Apple now and in the past has made a habit to cripple machines, to make the higher end models more appealing.

[AidenShaw]

Do you fellow MacRumors members believe it is worth the extra $500 for the dual 2.3 GHz system with the added hard drive space and the three PCI-X slots (as compared to PCI)? I have never owned a Mac, but I am planning to buy one now. I had been waiting to see if Apple made any announcements.

Thanks for any advice you can offer my way.

My advice would be to get the 2.3 for the added memory capacity.

It's much more likely that over its lifetime the system will run out of memory capacity - and you can't really benefit from 64-bit virtual memory with 4 GiB or less of RAM.

I replaced my first laptop when its (maxed out) memory capacity of 48 MiB was too small. The second laptop was retired when its (maxed out) 576 MiB was too small. My current laptop is only 2 GiB, and at times that's a bit tight. I'll get more when I replace it.

Same thing with my desktops - they were upgraded (new mobo) or replaced not because the CPU had become too slow, but because the max memory capacity of the mobo was no longer enough for my applications. (I recently exchanged my 2 GiB Xeon at work for one with 8 GiB.)

IMO you're more likely to regret the crippled memory of the cheaper system more than disk or PCI slots. (Disks are cheap to upgrade, and PCI has plenty of bandwidth for most cards a home user is likely to add.)

[840quadra]

Hey nice computer! No matter what some might say on these message boards, you will have one KICK A** computer there!


I just think it's not fair.. I want a comptuer that fast, I just can't afford it :D

[Blue Moon]

On the third day he upgraded....and there was much rejoicing:

Power Mac G5 Dual 2GHz
NVIDIA GeForce 6800 Ultra DDL w/256MB GDDR3 SDRAM
Apple Keyboard & Apple Mouse - U.S. English
Bluetooth Module + AirPort Extreme Card
Dual 2GHz PowerPC G5
2x400GB Serial ATA - 7200rpm
16x SuperDrive double-layer (DVD+R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
4GB DDR400 SDRAM (PC3200) - 4x1GB
AppleCare Protection Plan for Power Mac (w/ or w/o Display)
Apple Cinema HD Display (23" flat panel)

[840quadra]

On the third day he upgraded....and there was much rejoicing:

Power Mac G5 Dual 2GHz
NVIDIA GeForce 6800 Ultra DDL w/256MB GDDR3 SDRAM
Apple Keyboard & Apple Mouse - U.S. English
Bluetooth Module + AirPort Extreme Card
Dual 2GHz PowerPC G5
2x400GB Serial ATA - 7200rpm
16x SuperDrive double-layer (DVD+R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
4GB DDR400 SDRAM (PC3200) - 4x1GB
AppleCare Protection Plan for Power Mac (w/ or w/o Display)
Apple Cinema HD Display (23" flat panel)

Congrats!!

Enjoy your new friend, I love my new computer, and I have no regrets!! :)

[DakotaGuy]

I understand what you are saying.

however, it is still a crippled system when compared to the old model. And the poster has a good point, Apple now and in the past has made a habit to cripple machines, to make the higher end models more appealing.

Very true, but that is just old Marketing 101 coming into play here. Apple is not the only company that does that. Almost all do, with all kinds of products. Is it a little bit of the old "Bait and Switch" idea at work? You bet. But that is how the world of marketing works.

[Multimedia]

So now dual 2.3 GHz (+600 MHz total with 150 MHz faster bus) can be had without the plumbing and still 8 RAM slots. Anyone know if they really support 2 and 4 GB sticks? The 2 GHz model now only has 4 RAM slots and slow PCI. What a downgrade! So our older dual 2 GHz models are going to retain their value for sure. :D :eek:

[Frobozz]

Your best deal is go go immediately to the Sale section of store.apple.com and pick up either a new or refurbished 2.5 GHz system. They are 96% as fast as the new 2.7, and cost only $2,299 for a refurbished unit or $2,699 for a new unit.

What the heck was Apple thinking with this update? LAME.

[paulypants]

Do you fellow MacRumors members believe it is worth the extra $500 for the dual 2.3 GHz system with the added hard drive space and the three PCI-X slots (as compared to PCI)? I have never owned a Mac, but I am planning to buy one now. I had been waiting to see if Apple made any announcements.

Thanks for any advice you can offer my way.

YES.

[Xenious]

Pioneer 108 or 109 will see you OK for for your needs!

Does anyone know what actual models they are shipping with? Could it be the pioneer's?

Also did anyone notice that the ATI 9600 has two DVI ports now instead of an ADC and a DVI. When did that change?

[Blue Moon]

Congrats!!

Enjoy your new friend, I love my new computer, and I have no regrets!! :)

Thank you my good sir! Do you do audio or video editing?

[narco]

Good news for people who currently own G5's. This means after owning my dual 2ghz for almost a year, I only lost ~$400. The 20" display is a different story, about $600! Not a big deal though, makes it even easier to go and buy a second one!

Fishes,
narco.

[deputy_doofy]

• Dual 2.7GHz PowerPC G4
• 2GB DDR400 SDRAM (PC3200)
• 400GB Serial ATA - 7200rpm
• ATI Radeon 9650 w/256MB DDR SDRAM
• 16x SuperDrive double-layer (DVD+R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
• Apple Keyboard & Apple Mouse - U.S. English
• Mac OS X - U.S. English <--- In the BOX!

• Apple Cinema Display (20" flat panel) 699.99

ON IT'S WAY!!!! 8 to 10 days
Oh I'm soooo happy I waited!


Yeah, me too!!! (Though I see you ordered a Dual 2.7GHz PowerPC G4 :P)

Power Mac G5 Dual 2.3GHz
400GB Serial ATA - 7200rpm
16x SuperDrive double-layer (DVD+R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
2GB DDR400 SDRAM (PC3200)
ATI Radeon 9650 w/256MB DDR SDRAM
Apple Keyboard & Apple Mouse - U.S. English
Bluetooth Module + AirPort Extreme Card
AppleCare Protection Plan for Power Mac (w/ or w/o Display)
Apple Cinema HD Display (23" flat panel)

[minimax]

I think the non-updated single 1.8 GHz is actually implying the dualcores are on it's way. Why?
It's obvious they still have stock single 1.8 they want to get rid of for as much money as possible. Why upgrade something that will dissappear from the line in a few months? New line-up will probably add two dual dual cores 2.0 and 2.3 and drop prices for the remaining three powermacs.

[Devie]

YES!!

Hopefully, I will order a:

Dual 2.0
1GB
160GB
9600
20" ACD

Total: A$ 4,602.99

Within the next week :D (really hopeful to be able to order tomorrow, I just have to sort some stuff out first). Woo I am so excited! My first Mac!
I have all the money... excluding... $6 :(. I got so owned when I found that out :(.

[Multimedia]

Yeesh, talk about a crap upgrade. I'm going back to bed. Wake me up when we hit 3GHz.
OK. But is +600 MHz Really Worth Waking Up For? I think I'll hit the sack until the dual dual processors hit the streets. But you won't have to wake me up for that cause the earth will be rumbling all over the world. :p

[fluidinclusion]

If I wanted to do this, what model number should I search for for a replacement DL DVD burner for my current G5 (internal)?

If it is only a hundred bucks or so, I would like to be able to burn dual layer porn!


Dual lay her? FOr only $100?

[Multimedia]

YES!!

Hopefully, I will order a:

Dual 2.0
1GB
160GB
9600
20" ACD

Total: A$ 4,602.99

Within the next week :D (really hopeful to be able to order tomorrow, I just have to sort some stuff out first). Woo I am so excited! My first Mac!
I have all the money... excluding... $6 :(.
Be smart and buy an old refurbished dual 2 to get 8 ram slots and PCI-X for the same money as the "new" one with only 4 and slow PCI.

[griz]

The only negative: Apple - learn how to deal with the internal memory thing.

I agree it would be nice to see Apple put more RAM into the systems. 512MB on a Powerbook vs. 512MB on a PowermacG5 seems to make little sense. Why not at least put 1GB into the 2 top end Powermacs.

My only thought on this is, more memory bumps the price. I sometimes wish Apple would ship the good old 0/0 config they used to offer back on the MacIIsi days. Then I can pick up a couple 250GB drives and 4 gigs of RAM from a third party vendor for much less.

[840quadra]

Thank you my good sir! Do you do audio or video editing?

Some audio, I am in the process of acquiring software for this Macintosh, since everything I have is for Classic macs.

I am going to give Final Cut a try, so Video will come soon :)

[Devie]

Be smart and buy an old refurbished dual 2 to get 8 ram slots and PCI-X for the same money as the "new" one with only 4 and slow PCI.
Im in Australia, there are next to no refurb mac's available... if there are any at all.

[joecool85]

OK. But is +600 MHz Really Worth Waking Up For? I think I'll hit the sack until the dual dual processors hit the streets. But you won't have to wake me up for that cause the earth will be rumbling all over the world. :p

Um, I agree...except it would be +300 Mhz...we are already at 2.7ghz.

[aldo]

I think the coolest thing on the list is the double layer DVD drives. 16 X Double Layer drives! Probably won't work too well for regular video DVD's, but for Data Storage? Man it's like, what 8 gigs on a disc now??

Welcome to 2004. These drives cost less than $40-50 for a 16x DL writer and the media is damn expensive - $5+ vs 20c for single layer.

[melchior]

i just sold a 20" 1.8GHZ G5 iMac because I didn't feel any significant speed gains.

All I really care about is being able to open large images quickly. processing is not so important, that's why they invented batching... but it's the loading that is the pain. and we're only talking like 8mb raw and jpegs here...

do you guys think a dual 2ghz would make a big difference? I had 1gb of ram in the imac. would have more really help? where is my bottleneck do you think? the video card?

I don't care about 3d. i don't play games...

i'm frustrated with apples hardware at the moment... the dual 2ghz is the most i could afford but i honestly doubt it would feel so much better. *sigh*

any advice?

[ImAlwaysRight]

Now a similarily configured 20" 1.8g iMac is only $474 cheaper than a PM.

I definitely would have looked to upgrading to the PM when I bought my 20" iMac if there was a less than $500 difference.

It looks as if Apple is really getting the inline pricing right in the product line. About a $500 jump gets you to the next model, that is very tempting when getting a new computerYeah, but don't forget the rumors that new iMacs will be out in less than a week, with 20" iMac 2.0GHz G5 with more RAM, larger hard drive, dual layer SuperDrive, making it more than a $500 difference, I'd say.

[PretendPCuser]

I'm still waiting for them to put in something faster than a 56k modem. This is such a let down. Damn you Apple! Why won't you listen to us! :(

You dolt , they did! It's called 56K V.94! Wake up!!! :p

For all those who don't know, yes, i know it was a joke!

[fluidinclusion]

They have Gigabit ethernet built-in. They have fiberchannel as optional addon. What more could you want?


Access to the internet in most of the US, for which broadband isn't yet available!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[paulypants]

Well I believe this mini update indicates (hopefully) that Apple will be back to a 6-8 month upgrade cycle on the Powermacs, like they used to do. So that would mean that they'd be due for a refresh around the Paris Expo, hopefully we'll see 3Ghz, or dual core, or at least PCIe.

here's to hoping, sad that on the day the Powermacs are updated I am waiting for the next one... :rolleyes:

[Abulia]

I already said that in the other thread, but no one seems to be caring, i thought that was big news as wellMostly because Apple dropped the ball and we all bought the Dell 2005FPW already. ;)

Actually, nice to see the price drop. Makes the decision a little harder, but not much.

[PretendPCuser]

If Apple stores are having a 10% off deal for Tiger on Friday, can I combine that 10% with an education discount for a 20% discount? If so, i'm cleared to purchase a new 2Ghz PM (those who call it lame, remember, we're not all upgrading from a 1.25 Dual G4 - This is to replace a G4 400Mhz) :p

Otherwise, Dual 1.8 would be nice too!

m

[BwanaZulia]

I, for one, am not THRILLED by the new specs, but am happy with them. The price drop on the cinema display was what finally prompted me to yank out my credit card and place an order for a dual 2.0 with 23" display. With the edu discount I feel like I'm getting a lot of computer for my money.

I am in the same boat. I have been planning on a G5 for months, could have gotten a dual 2 for months, thought I would wait it out.

In the end, with the wait, I got a dual layer drive and a dropped LCD price.

So my order for a Dual 2.3 Ghz G5 and 23" LCD just went in with my corp discount. Add another drive and some RAM from NewEgg and we are good.

BZ

[G5power]

So much for purchasing my first Apple system. I have been stalking the PM 1.8 single for months now and was anticipating a new price point and / or upgraded features with today’s updates.

Based on extensive review of forum posts, I expected that the 1.8 single would either have a significant price drop or have upgraded features along with a minor price cut.
1- Faster processor 2Ghz
2- More memory 512MB
3- Bigger Hard drive 120 to 160
4- Upgraded video

My approach was that a minor price drop and at least 2 of the 4 upgrades above meant that I would probably make the purchase and 3 or 4 of the points above along with even a minor price drop meant that I would pull the trigger. I even had the courtesy discussion with the wife unit to let her know that I was planning a purchase.

But NO – Steve Jobs shut me down and went 0 for 4. Plus OMG – he kept the same price point on the 1.8 single. WTF is up with that? The $1499 hasn’t been a reasonable value for that system and it is now even more pathetic.

Apple doesn’t market a system for someone that wants an intermediate performance G5 with the option for upgrades. I do not want any part of an AIO system and I’m left with the cute but crippled G4 mini or a grossly overpriced and feature poor 1.8 single – nothing in between.

[Eric5h5]

Now I am not sure which powermac to get I could get the single 1.8 and give it the ATI 9600 or will I be better off with the old dual 1.8 or possibly 2.0, which do not have as good of a video card, how much better is a dual versus a better video card?

Well, these are PowerMacs, not iMacs. So it doesn't matter what graphics card the computer comes with, because you can replace it later if you don't think it's fast enough. However, you can't turn a single CPU machine into a dual CPU machine. So it seems like a no-brainer to me...get a refurbished dual 2.0, and then get a 9600, 9800, or X800 depending on how much you want to spend on the graphics card.

--Eric

[Abulia]

For me this is disappointing. I love my current PM and was really hoping for a nice upgrade to push me into buying a new one. You know, dual core, PCIe, Blu Ray, etc. Anything. Instead, Apple releases machines that (multiprocessors aside and FW800) are technically inferior to my current machine.

When I finally do upgrade my PM I suspect I'm going to take a real bath. My machine will be 2+ years old at that point.

[ImAlwaysRight]

When I finally do upgrade my PM I suspect I'm going to take a real bath. My machine will be 2+ years old at that point.Maybe. I just sold my 20-month-old dual 2.0 G5 PM, which I purchased at an EDU price, and made a few upgrades, for about $300 less than I paid for the thing. So to loose $300 over 20 months isn't a bad investment at all. ;) At this point, I'm not much of a power user, didn't really use the Pro features of the Power Mac (no PCI cards, no FW800, Radeon 9800 was nice for games), but I feel the updated iMac 2.0GHz G5 that is rumored to have 128MB video RAM and many other upgrades, will be fine for me. So I'm doing a slight "downgrade," but the iMac should be perfect for me, not to mention high WAF (wife approval factor), moreso than the tower and Dell LCD.

[BwanaZulia]

Do you fellow MacRumors members believe it is worth the extra $500 for the dual 2.3 GHz system with the added hard drive space and the three PCI-X slots (as compared to PCI)? I have never owned a Mac, but I am planning to buy one now. I had been waiting to see if Apple made any announcements.

Thanks for any advice you can offer my way.

I just went for the 2.3 over the 2.0 for the upgrade ability since I am still using my original 350Mhz G4 Sawtooth that I have put multiple drives, video cards and proc upgrades in and it will now go on to a new life at the office.

For me, dual was the only option and the ability to go to 8GB of RAM and not having to replace the 160GB drive (I needed 250 and got another 250 GB to pair it with) was the deal.

BZ

[SiliconAddict]

Hard time figuring out how I feel about these “upgrades” for lack of a better word. The CPU’s still are at the very least respectable. Sorry guys but they aren’t the leader of the pack anymore but they are at least in the ballpark compared to the G4 vs. the rest of the industry. So really no complaints there. YET. If Apple is still on single core, less then 3Ghz by Mac World…. The thing I’m eyeing is the GPU. WTF? Why is the uber top of the line dual CPU Power Mac only shipping with 9600 and not the 9800 which can be had as a BTO feature for just under half a grand more. That, IMHO is pure, unfiltered BS. If the high end PowerMac is suppose to be high end then put high end components in it! This is the love hate relationship I’m building with Apple. They pull these kind of stunts to squeeze as much money from the user as humanly possible and let me guess..you can’t buy a 9800 post purchase to upgrade the system? Or can you?
It’s enough to make a guy want to gnaw on his arm in frustration.

[virividox]

sweet by the time my pb dies ill be in the market for a powermac :)

[quta]

…. The thing I’m eyeing is the GPU. WTF? Why is the uber top of the line dual CPU Power Mac only shipping with 9600 and not the 9800 which can be had as a BTO feature for just under half a grand more. That, IMHO is pure, unfiltered BS. If the high end PowerMac is suppose to be high end then put high end components in it! This is the love hate relationship I’m building with Apple. They pull these kind of stunts to squeeze as much money from the user as humanly possible and let me guess..you can’t buy a 9800 post purchase to upgrade the system? Or can you?
It’s enough to make a guy want to gnaw on his arm in frustration.

You can do what I did, and order the Geforce 6800 along with your dual 2.7. Expensive, yes, but especially with Core Image utilizing the GPU it should be pretty damn fast.

[rog]

Well the refurb 2GHz Dualies for $1649 are already gone. That was the first decent deal on a powermac since the DP 867, and it lasted all of 30 minutes. way to go Apple! :mad: I actually almost bit, given what I could ebay my MDD for. I guess I'll have to wait another year--another lost sale for Apple.

[duffman9000]

Hard time figuring out how I feel about these “upgrades” for lack of a better word. The CPU’s still are at the very least respectable. Sorry guys but they aren’t the leader of the pack anymore but they are at least in the ballpark compared to the G4 vs. the rest of the industry. So really no complaints there. YET. If Apple is still on single core, less then 3Ghz by Mac World…. The thing I’m eyeing is the GPU. WTF? Why is the uber top of the line dual CPU Power Mac only shipping with 9600 and not the 9800 which can be had as a BTO feature for just under half a grand more. That, IMHO is pure, unfiltered BS. If the high end PowerMac is suppose to be high end then put high end components in it! This is the love hate relationship I’m building with Apple. They pull these kind of stunts to squeeze as much money from the user as humanly possible and let me guess..you can’t buy a 9800 post purchase to upgrade the system? Or can you?
It’s enough to make a guy want to gnaw on his arm in frustration.

Any word yet on what version of the 9600 the new pro machines are using? No sign of XT or PRO anywhere so they are probably the bottom basement versions. A two-year-old 9500 PRO would eat those non-pros, that's the real shame.

[macmunch]

Man Look here !!!

Some of you still think that there will be a upgrade on WWDC ! Simple answer NO !!! A PowerMac has average lifetime of 6 to 8 Months so there will be no update !


For the others here we will see a update for the Single 1.8 G5 because he cam up in October or november if i remember right and apple has still some machines so we must wait a bit and see a update for this to in the next weeks or month !

I think we weill see a all ne PowerMac on Paris Expo or at latest in SF 06 (but i think thats too late) This PowerMac will have Dualcore above 3 GHz and alle this things like PCI-E etc and of course a Tower Revision but i think it will get a new name maybe G6.

[ImAlwaysRight]

you can’t buy a 9800 post purchase to upgrade the system? Or can you?Go to the Apple Store, under "Mac Accessories" click "Displays" and you will see:


ATI Radeon 9800 Pro Mac Special Edition - For G5
$399.00

has 256MB DDR memory, but $400 is a chunk of change. Maybe you can find one on ebay or elsewhere for less

[HelloKitty]

I had to say it, because no one even mentioned it, but these are AVAILABLE NOW! Well 2-3 Day shipping times. What is better??? 200Mhz improvement on the top end now OR a 500Mhz improvement on the top model with a 3-4 month wait??? Or announce Dual Cores today with a (up to 6 month wait for shipping). Apple has done that many times before. At least they are giving us a little improvement, right here, right now...instead of what happened with the last update to 2.5... Does ANYONE remember the fiasco of getting the first 2.5 models shipped? Or maybe everyone has a short memory.

Well..in my opinion, I'd rather wait for 3-4 months for a machine with more improvements. I mean, come on, it takes Apple 10 months to bring out this kind of update? I think Apple should've introduced this update (a lot) earlier. And now what? Another 10 months before we get to see another update? I think Apple disappointed (or should I say worried) me a little bit with this update, knowing that this will be the top-of-the-line machine for Apple for the next year to come. This update really has nothing for us to be excited about..

[Snark]

I understand what you are saying.

however, it is still a crippled system when compared to the old model. And the poster has a good point, Apple now and in the past has made a habit to cripple machines, to make the higher end models more appealing.
What you're missing is that these are *speed* bumps as well as feature bumps. The old 2.0 DP wasn't "crippled" and dropped to the DP entry level slot; it got a speed bump to 2.3Ghz along with the feature bumps. What was the 1.8DP got a speed bump to 2 Ghz and feature tweaks.

The old model of the 2.0 DP machine has been discontinued and has been *replaced* by the 2.3Ghz machine.

Snark

[Multimedia]

Um, I agree...except it would be +300 Mhz...we are already at 2.7ghz.
300 MHz Times TWO :p

[ipacmm]

Dissapointing...but I still might buy one.

[tortus]

I got this from slashdot. Someone found this quote in Paul Thurrott's blog, "
This one's bizarre, but we heard at lunch today that Apple is unhappy with the PowerPC production at IBM and will be switching to Intel-compatible chips this very year. Yeah, seriously."

Here is the link: http://www.windowsitpro.com/Articles/Index.cfm?ArticleID=46175

This was posted yesterday and is something that was heard over lunch at the WinHEC conference yesterday. I don't know if he heard it from someone talking out their lowest orifice or what. But, lack of system archcitecture development over the last year in the PowerMac line indicates that something major is in the works. Or, at least I would hope. This is nothing but pure speculation but show that the "Apple to Intel-compatible CPUs" rumor is making its rounds in the upper echelon of the IT world.

AGP 8x?!? Damn, out of this world! That is some mind blowing tech.

[rdowns]

don't think the new G5s will be a big hit, if hit at all...

They haven't been since introduction. Look at PM sales the past 2 or 3 quarters, they suck.

[Multimedia]

Mostly because Apple dropped the ball and we all bought the Dell 2005FPW already. ;)

Actually, nice to see the price drop. Makes the decision a little harder, but not much.
Hey Don! I'm with you. I just pulled the trigger on one of those during this outrageous sale Dell is having until midnight tonight plus a 1600 x 1200 UltraSharp 2001FP 20.1" for only $616.09 including tax. Dell is definitely the way to go. Plus the stand is superior. Saved a ton of money even over the new Apple Display prices. ;)

[FoxyKaye]

The single 1.8 isn't new
More to the point - why do they fracking hobble the single processor PowerMacs so much? It's practically an iMac in a PowerMac body.

[Falleron]

Cant believe this. I am not that happy about the current Powermacs. I might well have bought a new 2.7Ghz machine but I wont be now because I cant get the graphics card I need! I need the X800 (or something with an ADC) because it has an ADC port on it. I have an older Apple LCD + would not be able to use it with the current machines.

Get this, APPLE LCD, and cant be used with an APPLE MACHINE!

I know you can get an adapter, thats not the point.

[Multimedia]

Cant believe this. I am not that happy about the current Powermacs. I might well have bought a new 2.7Ghz machine but I wont be now because I cant get the graphics card I need! I need the X800 (or something with an ADC) because it has an ADC port on it. I have an older Apple LCD + would not be able to use it with the current machines.

Get this, APPLE LCD, and cant be used with an APPLE MACHINE!

I know you can get an adapter, thats not the point.
ATI Has Plenty of Solutions For You WITH ADC Ports. (http://www.ati.com/products/mac.html) And including the X800 you think they don't offer for only $499. :p

[~loserman~]

Well..in my opinion, I'd rather wait for 3-4 months for a machine with more improvements. I mean, come on, it takes Apple 10 months to bring out this kind of update? I think Apple should've introduced this update (a lot) earlier. And now what? Another 10 months before we get to see another update? I think Apple disappointed (or should I say worried) me a little bit with this update, knowing that this will be the top-of-the-line machine for Apple for the next year to come. This update really has nothing for us to be excited about..

This is not necessarily the case....
Look at it this way....
First Apple can't release what they can't get from IBM.
Second.
Suppose Apple is ready for the dual core line of PowerMacs now but can't get a sufficient supply of the CPU's from IBM yet.
If this is the case it would make sense for them to speed bump them and wait until dual core supply reaches their needs.
It is still very possible that we will see a dual-core PowerMac update by AUG/SEPT.

[LionelEHutz]

Just tell me how I can overclock my dual 2.5 to 2.7 and I'll be happy.

[Falleron]

ATI Has Plenty of Solutions For You WITH ADC Ports. (http://www.ati.com/products/mac.html) And including the X800 you think they don't offer for only $499. :p
Yeah, I would buy the X800 separatly but the cost is high. I may as well go with the current top of the range nivdia + get the adapter from Apple (£65 I thinK). Could be used later on then in a different machine. I just dont know, it does put the price right up though.

[mkwilson68]

Yeah, blame IBM. Once again, we fall behind the Windows market's performance. Apple could have chosen to go elsewhere, remember.. Intel and AMD are both shipping dual core chips already, and IBM were supposed to be the leader in this tech. They've really screwed up their chip development lately, probably by moving all their best people to CELL.

Frankly, it's a good job Apple has the iPod - without it, they would be in dire, dire straits right now. Things better turn around soon in the Pro market - we only have so much brand loyalty and it's getting stretched pretty thin.

[mkwilson68]

Yeah, I would buy the X800 separatly but the cost is high. I may as well go with the current top of the range nivdia + get the adapter from Apple (£65 I thinK). Could be used later on then in a different machine. I just dont know, it does put the price right up though.

I have an X800, and it's a great card - my recommendation would be to buy one and leave the nVidia cards alone.

[Nugget]

Well, for whatever it's worth, Apple has at least one happy customer with these barely-updated PowerMacs. I ordered a 2.7GHz machine this morning to replace my 1GHz TiBook as my primary machine. I've been itching for something with a bit more power since the middle of last year or so, and any PowerMac bump was going to be enough to get me to pull the trigger.

Sure, I'd have been happier to see PCIe or some more substantive improvements over the previous top end model, but frankly I'd have been happy buying the 2.5GHz that was for sale last week.

I'll be happy to see quad-core dual-proc 970MP boxes, too, whenever those things hit the street, but I can't justify waiting for them.

[sososowhat]

www.apple.com/powermac ignores the 1.8 entirely! Is it EOL'd?

Choose Wisely

The Power Mac G5 product line comes in dual 2.0GHz, dual 2.3GHz and dual 2.7GHz configurations to support your creative endeavors. They all feature a 16x SuperDrive (DVD+R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW) as standard equipment across the line. And of course they come with one FireWire 800 port, two FireWire 400 ports, three PCI-X or PCI expansion slots, three USB 2.0 ports, analog audio in, analog audio out, optical S/PDIF in, optical S/PDIF out, front headphone and speaker jack and built-in Gigabit Ethernet — all as standard equipment. All models are AirPort Extreme-ready and feature an optional internal Bluetooth module.

[Avicdar]

ps: Note that the name is "double layer", not "dual layer". Let's not add confusion by using the wrong name - since when you go to buy blank disks they'll be labeled "double layer"

I've seen more references to dual layer than double layer. Sony, for one, calls their burners dual layer.

[rolley]

So the ****ty updates were for real. Woe is me. Lets hope there is Something Else just around the corner, because Steve's Reality Distortion Field is starting to wear thin.

Actually, the worse is the lack of PCIe. This is where the whole industry is heading, its lack is unexcusable. You would get a fine processor, but will not be able to buy any high end graphics card...

If only they had a single 2-2.5 Ghz proc with 1 PCI and 1-2 PCIe slots... for 1500$....

[combatcolin]

ps: Note that the name is "double layer", not "dual layer". Let's not add confusion by using the wrong name - since when you go to buy blank disks they'll be labeled "double layer"

Don't know about the states but over here its been "Dual Layer" since the format was launched back in 1997.

[TheAnswer]

...the specs on both the Dual 2 and Dual 2.3 list just the Ati Radeon 9600 as the GPU, anyone know if this card can be used to leverage Core Image in Tiger? The Tiger: Core Image page lists the 9600XT, but not the 9600.

Just wondering if how to factor this into my purchase considerations.

Thanks

[Sunrunner]

I wish they had G6s etc. but they're certainly not slow!

http://www.apple.com/powermac/performance/

And they're cheaper now by up to $450--if you get a display, at least. (The top Mac no longer needs a $450 GPU upgrade to run the 30"... and the other two sizes of display have dropped in price.)


You'll notice, of course, that they didnt include any specs for games, lol

[HelloKitty]

This is not necessarily the case....
Look at it this way....
First Apple can't release what they can't get from IBM.
Second.
Suppose Apple is ready for the dual core line of PowerMacs now but can't get a sufficient supply of the CPU's from IBM yet.
If this is the case it would make sense for them to speed bump them and wait until dual core supply reaches their needs.
It is still very possible that we will see a dual-core PowerMac update by AUG/SEPT.

I agree with you, and I strongly hope that Apple will bring us another update later this year (with the 970MP, of course). Looks like Apple and IBM just doesn't have the 970MPs ready at this moment.

But I still think that if Apple had introduced this update earlier, it would make their users happier, and make the PM sales better by sending out the message:

"For you folks who need a machine desperately right now, we've got you a deal. But for those who wants a powerful machine, wait for a while, and we'll give them to you later this year."

Let's wait and see what Steve says on this year's WWDC..

[qubex]

Actually, the worse is the lack of PCIe. This is where the whole industry is heading, its lack is unexcusable. You would get a fine processor, but will not be able to buy any high end graphics card...

If only they had a single 2-2.5 Ghz proc with 1 PCI and 1-2 PCIe slots... for 1500$....
Yes, I'm inclined to agree.

Plus, as a low-level programmer, I've learnt to despise the U3 system controller with a vengeance. The thing is awful. It really needs to be replaced/updated. (Hint: it's the reason the G5 machines consistently perform worse on sustained disk I/O than the G4 machines that came before them, except for the PowerMac G5 in RAID configuration.)

[Trout74]

Yes, I'm inclined to agree.

Plus, as a low-level programmer, I've learnt to despise the U3 system controller with a vengeance. The thing is awful. It really needs to be replaced/updated. (Hint: it's the reason the G5 machines consistently perform worse on sustained disk I/O than the G4 machines that came before them, except for the PowerMac G5 in RAID configuration.)


I dont understand the rants for no PCI-X? you can get it on BTO, so if you need one get one, and quit complaining.

or am I missing something?

also the apple site now says Tiger is available in stores now!?!?

trout

[qubex]

I dont understand the rants for no PCI-X? you can get it on BTO, so if you need one get one, and quit complaining.

or am I missing something?
PCI Express and PCI-X are two completely different interfaces. PCI-X (the interface used by the PowerMac G5s) is an server-orientated expansion bus, basically a higher-speed extension of regular PCI that has been around for a decade. PCI Express is a completely new technology that has been appearing on Wintel machines for about a year now. PCI Express works as a general system bus, as does PCI and PCI-X, but really it is intended as a replacement for AGP, the graphics architecture. All new high-performance graphic cards are designed for PCI-Express, and AGP support is dwindling. Leaving out PCI-Express in a supposedly high-performance orientated machine as the PowerMac is inexcusable.

Hint for the future: don't tell people to quit complaining until you're sure you haven't missed anything. It doesn't exactly work in your favour.

[Demon]

with upgrades like this... the Powermacs are going DOWN! damn... where did all the "supposed" technology go? this is just a speed bump... old graphics cards.. same machine... different numbers. terrible.
bring in the new Mac Mini's! how about the new iMacs?
and Damn it.... bring the iBooks already!

[hadleydb]

Ooops looks like apple accidentally updated their home page too soon. Here's a couple of pics: Pic 1 (http://www.outcryproductions.com/apple.jpg) Pic 2 (http://www.outcryproductions.com/apple2.jpg)

I was using windows at my office at the time... :eek:

Note: apple fixed this real quick.

[MattG]

also the apple site now says Tiger is available in stores now!?!?


Where does it say that? Everywhere I look it says "Available in 2 days." :confused:

[rockthecasbah]

Hint to the future: don't tell people to quit complaining until you're sure you haven't missed anything. It doesn't exactly work in your favour.
Relax Quebex, Trout74 said "or am i missing something," you don't have to lash out at him for making mistakes. I'm sure you as well as most of us have done something similar at least once, it happens to the best of us ;) . Let's all be friends :) .

On the topic, I am happy about this update. Sure it was a disapointing one since people had gotten our hopes up about 3ghz dual processors and more recently dual-cores, but technology takes time to develop, and this update was merely a speed bump, not a revamping of the Power Macs. Argue all you wish that other companies have the dual-core technoloy out already, but does that make it better? I'd rather have something that works 100% as it should and wait longer, and not have lackluster performance at professional price. Maybe that'll give you something to ponder about... ;)

[GUSTO]

Well looks like my dual 2Ghz (Rev A) will have to last me another year til apple break that 3Ghz barrier. :rolleyes:

[Mudbug]

indeed it did - here's the thread on that: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=122611

[JOE40]

I have an X800, and it's a great card - my recommendation would be to buy one and leave the nVidia cards alone.

Here is an interesting tidbit. In the online apple store, under PowerMacs, when you click on "Learn More" under displays while configuring a build-to-order machine:

Apple Cinema HD Display (30" flat panel)
The Apple Cinema HD is the first high-resolution, 30-inch flat-panel display.- 2560-by-1600-pixel resolution. ...

Requires Power Mac G5 with either the NVIDIA GeForce 6800 Ultra DDL or GeForce 6800 GT DDL graphics card.
Requires Power Mac G5 with ATI Radeon X850 XT or NVIDIA GeForce 6800 Ultra DDL graphics card.

I thought that was very interesting, especially considering Apple does not even seem to have the X800 available for sale.

[Frump]

Relax Quebex, Trout74 said "or am i missing something," you don't have to lash out at him for making mistakes. I'm sure you as well as most of us have done something similar at least once, it happens to the best of us ;) . Let's all be friends


Should that not have been directed at trout. He was the one who lashed out...

[scu]

Everyone thought they might be wrong on this one. This time they hit it out of the park. By telling us the exact speed at least two weeks before is pretty good to me. Missing the date was not a big deal

Apple is pretty bold in keeping their prices the same. Obviously at this time they don't see the need to move many machines. The discounting my come only when there is a significant drop in iMac and Mac mini demand. I can see a price drop in about two months.

If they sell enough of the new PowerMacs we could see profit margins go up given the whimpy and cheap hardware in this update.

[rockthecasbah]

Should that not have been directed at trout. He was the one who lashed out...
No, while Trout did originally lash out at people complaining about this being a disapointment, Quebex then lashed out at Trout74 for getting the PCI-X thing mixed up, which was not too kind of him.

[plastique45]

From Macbidouille.com. It spells out so well the frustration that any intelligent computer user can feel with Apple hardware...

(translated)

- Let's talk about it once and for all - Lionel - 16:07:01

Now that the "new" G5s are officially released, I'll make comments I'd usually post on the blog, but that I prefer publishing here. As you may see, I will say "I" so the entire Macbidouille team will not be involved, everyone will have their own view about this event [T's note :I for one do agree].
I am, as many of you, very disappointed of the new Powermac G5 line. This Powermac line renewal is probably the biggest letdown for this product ever since it's been introduced.
Almost nothing has changed, except a 200 MHz frequency increase in a year...

Of course we may have fooled ourselves when learning IBM had a 970MP CPU, perhaps it's too early to see it released it in a PC, but that's not the only disappointment.
Where are the 3 GHz Steve promised 23 months ago? Have we come to a dead end, much like with the G4?
How is it possible that in April 2005, a machine that's supposed to be top notch may come out with an AGP based video card?
How dare they put Radeon 9600 ou 9650 in those? To find those chips, Apple probably had to raid ATI's basement.
Apple may now boast they earn a lot of money, is it because of those cheeseparing economies? or is it just to show the whole world that people buy those machines just because there's an apple on it?
Don't be mistaken here, Apple will earn a lot more money by selling a G5 now than they used to one year ago. R&D costs have been covered, a DVD burner, even 16x, is twice cheaper than a 8x one year ago and 512 Mo RAM cost much less than 256 last year. SATA HDs also went down dramatically those 2 two last years.

I've only got one hope: that Apple will sell those PowerMacs 6 months instead of a year, and that during Apple Expo, we'll eventually have, not necessarily the machine we dreamed of, but the least we can expect from an arrogant and expansionist manufacturer (and a VERY costly one, too).
Until then, if you don't really need a G5 now, buy a Mac mini.

Ok, that's enough for criticism. Let's hope this will only be a transition, and not the beginning of a new descent in hell.

___________________________________

Personally, I also can't believe that Apple took out PCI-X on the dual 2GHz, and limited it to 4GB of Ram.... They are so @%$#?&* cheap...

And why can't you order an ATI x800? You need to pay for a video card that you won't need, THEN order the x800 separately, brilliant.

[cosmoed]

Think Secret, those bastards.

Wheres my damn iMac 2.0.

[Trout74]

No, while Trout did originally lash out at people complaining about this being a disapointment, Quebex then lashed out at Trout74 for getting the PCI-X thing mixed up, which was not too kind of him.


im sorry im sorry im sorry.

I didnt know the difference.

trout

[rockthecasbah]

From Macbidouille.com. It spells out so well the frustration that any intelligent computer user can feel with Apple hardware...

(translated)

Ok, that's enough for criticism. Let's hope this will only be a transition, and not the beginning of a new descent in hell.

___________________________________

Personally, I also can't believe that Apple took out PCI-X on the dual 2GHz, and limited it to 4GB of Ram.... They are so @%$#?&* cheap...

And why can't you order an ATI x800? You need to pay for a video card that you won't need, THEN order the x800 separately, brilliant.
I have nothing to say about the graphics cards, as I am not too well versed in the latest and greatest, but the transition to hell really got to me from macbidouille.com. THIS UPDATE WAS JUST A SPEED BUMP, NOTHING MORE!!!! Everyone got excited about technology that was still too new (dual core) and tech that just hasn't worked out..yet (3ghz dual processor). If the dual core rumor hadn't come out and Jobs hadn't promised a 3ghz machine, you guys would be praising Apple for its wonderful technology.

Sometimes tech is promising, but in development problems arise, and what seemed to be the end all greatest becomes nothing more then a failed design. That's business and that's life. Please, for the sake of the threads, get that into your heads! Look at what we've got now and if it's not for you, then don't buy it. But saying the Power Mac update is bad because it is not what was promised by Jobs or a fantasy-filled rumor won't make it change into what you want. Sorry i seem angry, i'm trying not to seem like a little ball of anger here :)

[camomac]

okay i am at work right now on a windows machine so i have no way to find this out...

my question is since i have a 117 dvd+/-RW that is a dumbed down pioneer DVR-108, will apple be releasing a firmware flash to make my recorder to at least a DVR-108 dual layer?

if apple does not release a firmware update then i will probably flash my drive since tiger should now natively support the DVR-108.


Thanks.


i am sure most all of you know about this but just in case check it out here (http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/tips/FlashingDVR-117guide.html).

[BarfBag]

1) They don't want to release something as spectacular as a dual-core PowerMac without a large event. (WWDC)

2) IBM is having a hard time keeping up with demand and/or having trouble producing the new state-of-the-art chips.

I think Apple should go AMD... seriously... but that would mean a major rewrite of everything.

[tromboneaholic]

This Powermac line renewal is probably the biggest letdown for this product ever since it's been introduced. Almost nothing has changed, except a 200 MHz frequency increase in a year...

Apple will earn a lot more money by selling a G5 now than they used to one year ago. R&D costs have been covered, a DVD burner, even 16x, is twice cheaper than a 8x one year ago and 512 Mo RAM cost much less than 256 last year. SATA HDs also went down dramatically those 2 two last years.



Hmmm... This is the kind of upgrate that can shake customer loyalty.

[rockthecasbah]

1) They don't want to release something as spectacular as a dual-core PowerMac without a large event. (WWDC)

2) IBM is having a hard time keeping up with demand and/or having trouble producing the new state-of-the-art chips.

I think Apple should go AMD... seriously... but that would mean a major rewrite of everything.
1. I agree, maybe not as soon as WWDC, but possibly Mac Expo in France :) .
2. It is possible that IBM is having these issues, but it is also possible they are just releasing a speedbump to stave off the crave for an update until dual core is released late at Mac Expo in Paris, or later if need be. It was a year, something HAD to be done, so they gave a little bump in speed. Rewriting everythign for an AMD switch would hardly be worthwhile in my opinion, i'm sure IBM has something special to wow us with soon anyway ;) .

[tromboneaholic]

Sometimes tech is promising, but in development problems arise, and what seemed to be the end all greatest becomes nothing more then a failed design. That's business and that's life. Please, for the sake of the threads, get that into your heads! Look at what we've got now and if it's not for you, then don't buy it. But saying the Power Mac update is bad because it is not what was promised by Jobs or a fantasy-filled rumor won't make it change into what you want. Sorry i seem angry, i'm trying not to seem like a little ball of anger here :)


It's a fact of life that Apple is ripping off consumers with this pricing. I agree with you: no one should by this over-priced, outdated box.

This must be Apple's way of moving us all to laptops. Kind of like when they decided non more floppies. Only now it's no more desktops.

[rockthecasbah]

1) They don't want to release something as spectacular as a dual-core PowerMac without a large event. (WWDC)

2) IBM is having a hard time keeping up with demand and/or having trouble producing the new state-of-the-art chips.

I think Apple should go AMD... seriously... but that would mean a major rewrite of everything.
1. I agree, maybe not as soon as WWDC, but possibly Mac Expo in France :) .

2. It is possible that IBM is having these issues, but it is also possible they are just releasing a speedbump to stave off the crave for an update until dual core is released late at Mac Expo in Paris, or later if need be. It was a year, something HAD to be done, so they gave a little bump in speed. Rewriting everythign for an AMD switch would hardly be worthwhile in my opinion, i'm sure IBM has something special to wow us with soon anyway ;) .

(for some reason my post was put on twice guys, um sorry about that? It never appeared on my screen, it kept timing out when I was writing it... :o

[zimtheinvader]

anyone else notice the 56k modem is no longer standard?

[pgwalsh]

Apple and Steve Jobs must be frustrated as hell. Think about making a promise to your customers to deliver a speed boost in a year and two years later not being able to deliver. That sucks, but they’re not in control of IBM’s fabrication issues.

I’m sure if the 3 Ghz part were available they’d be shipping right now instead of the 2.7. I’m not quite sure if the dual core were ready they’d ship in the new PowerMacs. From what I’ve seen dual core processor servers are selling or going to sell for an arm and a leg. Perhaps the part is just a little too much for Apple to offer in the PowerMacs. A very sad situation.

So the speed bumps and dual core problems lay with IBM and effect Apple customers. Poo poo on them. I guess the CELL is the focus.

The lack of other aspects as PCI Express and HyperTransport 2.0 are most likely due to Apple not wanting to change the mobo when they’re not brining in a new processor family. That’s sad, but understandable to a point. They could afford it; they are number 5 in the PC business.

Not putting a better video card, more ram, larger hard drive, and other top of the line components in the machine is a sign of cheapness. I bet the margins on these machines are huge and Apple is going to milk it’s customers all it can. Steve is greedy on this one. The company is doing really well and they’re taking full advantage of the iPod Halo effect, but I think it’s wrong thing to do.

<venting>Apple, since you’re falling short with the delivery of a 3 ghz part or dual core, why not make up for it by juicing the machine with top of the line extras? They call this a PowerMac? These updates are PowerCrap in my opinion. </venting>

[rockthecasbah]

anyone else notice the 56k modem is no longer standard? I didn't notice that but I assume Apple thinks that since this is a pro machine, they are most likely going to have broadband internet, making a 56k modem useless. If I were them, I would have cut that out as well, it's not necessary.

[PeterQVenkman]

I noticed that. That's lame. I ordered one today. If I need one I will install it myslef.

Can anyone suggest a good RAM manufacturer? I looked on dealmac.com and found good prices on some 1 GB chips, but it is from Kingston. I hear the G5s are notoriously picky when it comes to RAM.

[daveL]

I think Apple should go AMD... seriously... but that would mean a major rewrite of everything.
Of course, you realize the Apple would have to continue to support the G3/G4/G5, in addition to switching to AMD - and all the third party apps would have to do the same. That would be suicide. Never going to happen.

Perhaps it would be a bit different if Apple had a significant market share and could bully the market, the way M$ does, but that isn't the case.

[Bendit]

anyone else notice the 56k modem is no longer standard?

I don't think it has ever been standard on the G5. Atleast it wasn't last week.

[camomac]

crucial ram uses micron chips. i just bought 4 gb of this from them and it works great. kingston value ram i heard was ok, but i perfer micron chips.

[rockthecasbah]

I noticed that. That's lame. I ordered one today. If I need one I will install it myslef.

Can anyone suggest a good RAM manufacturer? I looked on dealmac.com and found good prices on some 1 GB chips, but it is from Kingston. I hear the G5s are notoriously picky when it comes to RAM.
Crucial is supposed to be pretty good and nicely priced :) .

[camomac]

BTW.. crucial is what came installed in my G5 from apple.

[blitzkrieg79]

welllll, now its official, anyway, i am desperate right now so i'll probably get the 2.3 model as I dont have any time to wait anymore... pretty much i am disappointed with this update and if it wasnt for a fact that I have invested a lot in Mac software I would probably look elsewhere... Powermacs are definately overpriced across the board... My guess is that 970MPs are non existant, it was just a rumor, we probably wont see dual cores until we will see Power5 derived chips, 970 is a dead end technology, it can't scale any higher than 2.8GHZ plus its not in the notebooks after almost 2 years of its Mac debut (actually 970 is more like 3 years old as IBM had them way before the Powermac release)... So I seriously doubt that IBM nor Apple will invest in the 970 further development, its just a disappointment after another disappointment... And as someone in the thread said, its a good thing Apple has that iPod thing going on or else they would be pretty much staring at bankrupcy...

[SweetFeet]

I don't think it has ever been standard on the G5. Atleast it wasn't last week.

Modems have ALWAYS been standard on every Apple computer until this newest Rev. The single 1.8 still has one.

[Porco]

I got my dual 2.5Ghz G5 last September, I'm glad I didn't wait. I already have the HD space, my graphics card is fine for my purposes, so really a 7 month wait for 200Mhz and dual layer DVDs wouldn't have been worth it for me...

Still, as unimpressive as the upgrades are compared to the old specs, the machines themselves are still lovely (my G5 is the nicest machine I've ever used), and you're still getting more Powermac now than this time last week, so it's better than nothing.

...
Can anyone suggest a good RAM manufacturer? I looked on dealmac.com and found good prices on some 1 GB chips, but it is from Kingston. I hear the G5s are notoriously picky when it comes to RAM.

Yeah, I'll second the recommendation for Crucial. We have two G5s (a dual 2.0 and a dual 2.5), both got RAM upgrades from Crucial last year, with no problems (touch wood).

[gangst]

sorry but dual 2.7ghz what a bunch of crap, these machines are rubbish. what a waste of an upgrade oppurtunity.

[topicolo]

Hello? 2004 called and they want their computer back.

[chrskacz]

- we only have so much brand loyalty and it's getting stretched pretty thin.


yeah, how long did we have to wait for lac luster "speed bumps" ??
:mad:

[OnaMacSince1989]

Big disappointment these minor upgrades didn't come with price drops. But, I really don't care much about PowerMacs...where are the updates to the eMac and iMac!?!?!?! I need specs and prices people! :eek:

[MacsRgr8]

Modems have ALWAYS been standard on every Apple computer until this newest Rev. The single 1.8 still has one.


Not to be picky.. but not all

The top-line G4's (in their first year), the 450 and 500 MHz did only optionally have a modem. I have one here without the modem.

[swingerofbirch]

Don't know if anyone has posted this, but when you go to custom config a PM, there is no longer an option to add on speakers (they used to offer a couple of high end third party speaker sets).

Also, on the storefront, they don't have the NEW logo next to the Power Mac.

It's completely unadvertised, much like the frequent speedbumps to competitors like Dell aren't.

[sw1tcher]

Apple must be the only company I know that deliberately cripples its older systems in order to make the new systems look better!!!! :mad:

What the ******* happened to the dual 2.0Ghz G5 model? And Why? :eek:

And for heavens sake why did they discontinue the dual 2.5Ghz G5? :confused:

Is the newly introduced 2.3ghz supposed to improve anything? :rolleyes:

[IMG]

I know what you mean, but the new dual 2.0 GHz G5 isn't that crippled. The only thing crippled about it is that it now only supports a max of 4GB of RAM as opposed to 8GB before. But it's now gained a slightly better GPU and DVD burner. It's like Apple updated it and dropped the price $500.

[wdlove]

At last we finally have our Power Mac G5 Rev. C. We just never seem to get all that we want, but such is life.

I wonder what the difference is between Blue Ray and the dual layer Super Drive that is being offered on the new Power Mac?

[sw1tcher]

Although I could not agree more that the 1.8 single should have been updated with more RAM, a better video card, and a 2.0Ghz processor, The 5200 Ultra while not a great card is Tiger Compatible. The problem Apple has with Tiger is their models with 9200's in them, like the eMac and Mac Mini. I can't believe they would not spend about $5 more max and put at least a 5200 Ultra in the Mac Mini for Tiger and Core Image.

$5 in the real world, but knowing Apple they'd charge us something like $50 for the GPU upgrade. :p

[ksz]

I wonder what the difference is between Blue Ray and the dual layer Super Drive that is being offered on the new Power Mac?
About 40 GB if I recall correctly. Dual layer DVD has a capacity of 9GB, Blue Ray is about 50GB.

http://www.blu-ray.com/faq/#1.5

[MacsRgr8]

Just my € 0,02:

- Bad update???
It is just Steve's outrageous promise 2 years ago about reaching 3 Ghz within 12 months, that this update seems bad. A Dual PowerMac G5 runnig @ 2.7 GHz still is a great machine.

- PCI Express over AGP 8x???
No way a grfx card pushes the limit of an AGP 8x bus. I understand future grfx cards will probably be PCI-E only, but not all, and certainly not in the near future. But as with the X800 XT from ATi, the PC version of the card (which I proudly own ;) ) is PCI-E only. The X800 PE is available in AGP 8x. So, I can't imagine seeing ATi/Apple running into trouble with the neXt high-end card: X950. Sure, the PCI-E version will be first delivered, but I doubt ATi will stop supporting AGP 8x with that card.

- Dual Core???
I had the feeling Apple wouldn't get that "first".....

- Radeon 9600 / 9650???
This IS bad. WTF??? A high-end PowerMac like this, introduced allmost halfway 2005 getting a Radeon 96X0 grfx card as default..... :mad:
Couldn't Apple have done with some left-over 9800 SE or XT???

- Dual Layer 16x DVD +/- R???
Duh...


Luckily Apple could boast the fact that Tiger would ship as a "standard"....
:rolleyes:

[mandis]

I only wonder how future proof these new powermacs really are…

I mean, if I bought one of those 2.7Ghz today, would I be able to purchase the latest GFX card from Ati or Nvidia a year from now?? The major vendors have basically scraped the AGP in order to focus on PCI-E, so how can I be sure that they will still be making AGP versions of their latest cards by the end of 2006??

Memory is also a serious issue here. The latest powermacs don’t support DDR2. If I bought 4GB for this system and I perhaps decided to upgrade to the next powermac model (supposing they released one with Dual-Core, PCI-E and DDR2 in 2006) I would be stack with 4 GB of very expensive ram which I would have no use for. Not to mention that I would probably have to sell it on ebay for half the price.

This update could potentially cost me A LOT MORE than just the value of the new Powermac G5.

[sw1tcher]

I wonder what the difference is between Blue Ray and the dual layer Super Drive that is being offered on the new Power Mac?

Well, Blu-ray discs have a capacity of 25GB per layer whereas a double layer disc only has a 8.5GB capacity (both layers combined)

[rog]

This upgrade would have been great if 1) it came out last October, 2) it came with massive price cuts across the line so that the cripple 2.0 was $1499 or so, and the 2.7 was $2299. Wow, it's the Motorola debacle all over again.

Anyone with bizarre notions that Apple is holding something back for WWDC, give me a break! They have never released a revision with a huge increase that quickly and they never will. The time between speed bumps gets longer, not shorter as it does in the PC world.

Given that Apple is stuck with IBMs meager progress, they should have updated the case to make it an actual pro machine, and cut prices. That case is enormous, and it still holds 1 optical, and 2 hard drives without an aftermarket modification kit. Why not high end video cards in a "pro" machine?

Apple is just really sad lately.

[ksz]

- Dual Core???
I had the feeling Apple wouldn't get that "first".....

While Intel is stepping up production of the Pentium-D and Pentium EE Dual Core, I believe dual cores will not be available in volume -- regardless of Intel, AMD, IBM, or Freescale -- until the 4th calendar quarter. Intel is producing about 100,000 dual cores a month right now, compared with 20 million processors that are sold per quarter. AMD will not begin volume production of the Athlon64 X2 until June/July. I think Apple may well have the motherboard ready to go with PCI Express and possibly SATA-II and other updates, but the processors are simply not being produced in any viable volume for a product release.

[MacsRgr8]

I only wonder how future proof these new powermacs really are…

I mean, if I bought one of those 2.7Ghz today, would I be able to purchase the latest GFX card from Ati or Nvidia a year from now?? The major vendors have basically scraped the AGP in order to focus on PCI-E, so how can I be sure that they will still be making AGP versions of their latest cards by the end of 2006??

Memory is also a serious issue here. The latest powermacs don’t support DDR2. If I bought 4GB for this system and I perhaps decided to upgrade to the next powermac model (supposing they released one with Dual-Core, PCI-E and DDR2 in 2006) I would be stack with 4 GB of very expensive ram which I would have no use for. Not to mention that I would probably have to sell it on ebay for half the price.

This update could potentially cost me A LOT MORE than just the value of the new Powermac G5.

Like I previously stated, I expect AGP 8x to be supported for the next-gen grfx cards (at least for Macs). Even a Radeon X800 PE doesn't push an AGP 8x bus.
As ATi did produce an X800 XT for Mac (thus AGP 8x, not available for PC... need the X800 PE for that), I assume their next-gen card will get AGP 8x as long as ATi sees profit in it. I don't think a Radeon X950 card will be "crippled" by an AGP 8x bus. So, as long as there will be demand for such a card for a Mac, ATi will make one.
Not sure nVidia will do though....

As to DDR2 RAM... I thought I read somewhere AMD would "skip" it, and go straight to DDR3 RAM. Well, Apple could join them. DDR RAM will only get cheaper and cheaper ;)

But you could be right that if you want to upgrade your Mac in about 3 years time (or later) you could run into some trouble getting the hardware. My speculation is based on the near future (about 1-2 years).

[ramallite]

I got the following specs from Apple's web page, does anybody know / remember how these compare to 9600 pro and 9600 XT (which is still listed for the single processor)?

Radeon 9600 / 9650

Pipelines 4 / 4
Frame buffer 128 DDR / 256 DDR
Vertices/sec 163 mil / 200 mil
Fill rate (tex/s) 1.3 bil / 1.6 bil
Bandwith 6.4 GBps / 8.6 GBps

[sw1tcher]

Um, I agree...except it would be +300 Mhz...we are already at 2.7ghz.

Well, since there are 2 processors...

+300MHz x 2 processors = +600 MHz.