Bonjour for Windows

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Apple has released Bonjour for Windows (http://www.apple.com/support/downloads/bonjourforwindows_readme.html). Bonjour is the new name for Apple's zero-config technology previously known as Rendezvous:

Bonjour, also known as zero-configuration networking, enables automatic discovery of computers, devices, and services on IP networks. Bonjour uses industry standard IP protocols to allow devices to automatically discover each other without the need to enter IP addresses or configure DNS servers.


Apple also provides and SDK for developers to incorporate Bonjour technology into their applications.

[Daveway]

Why would Windows need this? :confused:

[kwajo.com]

:o seriously? weird...

EDIT: wait, I just got an idea. iChat for windows.... ;)

[Marble]

That's odd of them...

[technocoy]

this is actually kind if a big deal.. i'm assuming it works seamlessly with macs on the same network?


nice, apple makes another chess move.

technocoy

[PlaceofDis]

this has actually been in the works for some time now, even back when it was called Rendezvous, its good that they finally released it, hopefully developers will be able to take advantage of it!

[nbs2]

Um, does this mean that Apple is one step closer to releasing iChat for Windows? (today zero-config...tomorrow the world)

[narco]

Yeah, this is awesome. I am having someone make me a PC out of an old NES, and I would love to network it with my G5 and not have to worry about all the technical mumbo-jumbo.

Releasing iChat on the PC would be cool too. Maybe then I will know someone who will have a webcam.

Fishes,
narco.

[mvc]

iTunes on Windows already has this. My PC can see both my Macs iTunes Libraries and vice versa, all automatically using Rendevous without me configuring a thing on either platform. It works a lot more smoothly than trying to actually transfer files between them!

I expect its a trojan intended for future cross platform development for the PC market, like Quicktime is.

[Balin64]

Very similar to Quicktime, and over-due in my opinion. It's going to be great: seeing peripheral packages with the Quicktime, Mac OS and now Bonjour logos. Zero config. Good Move. :)

[Waluigi]

I'd love to see this somehow bundeled into iTunes/Quicktime. It would be nice to have an expanded bonjor list in iChat. This has huge potential.

--Waluigi

[asif786]

doesn't itunes already use this to find other itunes users on the network?

this should be great for things like printer setups etc.

i just wish it was still called rendezvous! :rolleyes:

[sky131]

Does this mean that I will be able to browse to my webserver on the LAN using http://machinename.local from a Windows box?

[Apple]

If this means ichat for windows i wonder if that means that windows people will be able to use msn messenger in ichat. That would personally expand my buddylist ten-fold. After all, msn messenger is a microsoft app.

[obeygiant]

why would this mean iChat for windows?
i mean that would be a good thing, but what
tells you iChat is nearby?

[jrober]

Need to re-read the release note but if this makes Windows computers network better then I am all for it. I will use it for Mac - Windows but presumably it will work well for Windows - Windows as well.

John

[Stella]

Why would Windows need this? :confused:


iTunes - iTunes uses Bonjour to find other running instances on different machines.

iChat wouldn't survive in the Windows world.. its far too restrictive. Only good thing it would be for is to communicate with Mac users via webcam or audio,since no one else can be arsed to.

[nrd]

This technology is mainly for the automatic discovery of network services like printers and file server shares. It's not likely that the end user on Windows will be saying, "Wow! Bonjour!" It's going to be a behind-the-scenes feature that will help with seamless use of network services regardless of operating system or network protocol (as long as the Internet Protocol is still being used).

[herbalizer]

I'd rather have ical, safari, addressbook and isync for windoze. Not that many people can take full advantage of isync unless they have 2 macs. Most pepple have to use windoze at work so it would be great to be able to sync your calander, bookmarks and contacts with your macs or even other windozes machines. The more apple apps on windoze, the better.

[nado]

I was already planning to add Bonjour into a software I build at work... I didn't know it wasn't available on Windows though! Excellent timing! :)

[alywa]

I agree with the above that this is a trojan. I have a sneeky feeling that this has something to do with future video / networking tech that we don't know about yet.

I set up an airport express last night (upgrading from a linksys 802.11b router), and I was extremely impressed not only with the internet / data transfer speeds, but especially with the ease of getting the network printer to work. I was surprised to find that it used Bonjour, I thought that had to be a printer specific deal (I didn't know the airport products utilized the technology)

Anyway, I have a feeling this is bigger than it seems.

-alywa

[Gasu E.]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Apple has released Bonjour for Windows (http://www.apple.com/support/downloads/bonjourforwindows_readme.html). Bonjour is the new name for Apple's zero-config technology previously known as Rendezvous:




I'd prefer to see "Au Revoir for Windows."

[Darwin]

This technology is mainly for the automatic discovery of network services like printers and file server shares. It's not likely that the end user on Windows will be saying, "Wow! Bonjour!" It's going to be a behind-the-scenes feature that will help with seamless use of network services regardless of operating system or network protocol (as long as the Internet Protocol is still being used).

This seems the most likely

Printer manufacturing for example have started to implement this so PCs should have this kind of feature available, Apple have decided to do this for them which could mean something big, who knows

[iJaz]

I'd prefer to see "Au Revoir for Windows."
Oui!

[tdewey]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Apple has released Bonjour for Windows (http://www.apple.com/support/downloads/bonjourforwindows_readme.html). Bonjour is the new name for Apple's zero-config technology previously known as Rendezvous:



Apple also provides and SDK for developers to incorporate Bonjour technology into their applications.

Must. Change. Name! Now! Rendezvous much better, Bonjour is well--kinda dumb, IMHO.

[drlunanerd]

I'd prefer to see "Au Revoir for Windows."

Ha ha, brilliant.

[Brandon Sharitt]

iTunes has been using Rendezvous(now Bonjour) for a while, but it was completely incorporated. This will allow third party developers to create applications that use it as well. While it may not exactly mean iChat for Windows, the next version of AIM for Windows my very well be Bonjour enabled. By the way, is the Windows version of AIM compatible with iChat video and voice chat?

[aswitcher]

I'd prefer to see "Au Revoir for Windows."


:eek: :D funny stuff

[840quadra]

Yay.

No more needing to Re-IP or setup DNS whenever my guests want to connect to my Macintosh network.

[lordmac]

iTunes has been using Rendezvous(now Bonjour) for a while, but it was completely incorporated. This will allow third party developers to create applications that use it as well. While it may not exactly mean iChat for Windows, the next version of AIM for Windows my very well be Bonjour enabled. By the way, is the Windows version of AIM compatible with iChat video and voice chat?

The current version of aim is compatible with aim in respects to a/v stuff. It has been ever sense v. 5.5 (its up to 5.9 right now) of aim has been out. But there is gona be a major re-haul of aim for windows coming out in the summer. Its still no ichat but its much better then before. There is a beta out for it currently. As of right its called Triton but that is just the code word for it. Also worthy of note don't expect ichat to ever work, without hacking at least, with msn messenger. If they did this apple would simply be sued by aol and msn might vary well not let them and sue if they did it with out permission. It's possible that they might add support for it if the drop support for aim. :o :rolleyes: (edit) forgot to address one point:) It's posable that we might see bonjour in aim but i doubt by the next windows aim update. I certainly think it would be pretty sweet if it did. :)

[biohazard6969]

how is this going to to work? i thought bonjour was unix based.... could this possibly mean an ichat for windows coming down the road? theres not a very big connection but you never know.

[bbyrdhouse]

this is actually kind if a big deal.. i'm assuming it works seamlessly with macs on the same network?


nice, apple makes another chess move.

technocoy


I kinda agree. I think that this is a strategy move. I wonder if a "networkable" ipod is in the works?????

[Sunrunner]

I kinda agree. I think that this is a strategy move. I wonder if a "networkable" ipod is in the works?????


Now we just wait for someone to rip apart the coding of the app and see if there are any clues for future technology plans from apple....

[cubedco]

I kinda agree. I think that this is a strategy move. I wonder if a "networkable" ipod is in the works?????
2004 airport express called, they want their complimentary wifi ipod to hurry the f0ck up.

[virividox]

actually this a good thing !!!

[LaMerVipere]

How odd.

[Frisco]

Looks like Apple is getting out of the Mac market and into the Windows market. It was bound to happen sooner or later. I can't wait for iDvd and iMovie for Windows.

[mactastic]

Has anyone gotten this to work yet? I just installed it, but I can't see our networked Brother 8840DN with it. That is supposed to be a Rendezvous-enabled printer, when I hook my TiBook up to the network it sees it just fine, but my XP box can't seem to see the same printer. Weird.

[hulugu]

Looks like Apple is getting out of the Mac market and into the Windows market. It was bound to happen sooner or later. I can't wait for iDvd and iMovie for Windows.

Now Frisco, think about it, Apple has moved a couple of key technologies QT (w/ iTunes) and Zero-Config to Windows, just so they can get out of the Mac business? Then why bother with Tiger, the ProApps, updated G5 iMacs, etc? Nope, Apple is trying to encircle Windows and become such an important part of people's daily experience that just as Apple needs Microsoft Office to remain prevalent, so will Windows need QT and Zero-Config and maybe iChat AV. QT is especially so, because it ties into iTunes and iChat AV, and suddenly to make a nice cross-platform media experience, it might be easier for developers to make QT H.264 stuff rather than use WMP.
The minute Apple stops making Macs is the minute Linux starts to look good, and I hope Apple never has to port iLife (beyond iTunes, which was a very good idea). iChat AV is the next good port, because you get to sell more iSights (using QT) and you get Windows users used to the idea that Apple is a great company. Someone who buys an iSight, iPod, Apple Cinema Display, and is using iTunes, QT, iChatAV and Zero-Config is at the very least a money-stream for Apple, and this same person is more likely to get a G5 the next time around, especially when they're already surrounded by all this Apple gear.
Jobs has been reading Sun-Tzu.

[nrd]

I can't wait for iDvd and iMovie for Windows.
Will never happen. If they port anything, it'll be the pro applications and even then that's not likely. Apple is a hardware company. It's not going to up and adopt the x86 architecture any time soon.

Why do you think it's taken Microsoft ~10 years to get most of the bugs out of Windows? It's because they stretched themselves too thin trying to support every piece of hardware. That's why MS is now pushing hardware manufactures into "Designed for Windows Media" designation. It's their attempt at controlling a hardware market with very few controlling standards from the start.

When Apple ports software to Windows/x86, it's to entice Windows users into using Apple hardware. They wouldn't have ported iTunes unless it was to convince Windows users that the iPod is an option for them (and that they should buy, buy, buy).

Rendezvous (i think Bonjour is a silly name) will help those that switch with interoperatibility (sp?) issues. Hypothetical situation: auto discovery of Tiger Server SMB shares and other services on Xserves will also help businesses keep Windows workstations and upgrade to Apple hardware on the backend.

[sky131]

I can't wait for iDvd and iMovie for Windows.

To those that replied to this, he is obviously joking... Come on, that one was easy to catch.

[wPod]

heh. . . Rendezvous is a much better name than Bonjour!!!! i prefer 'fredom' fries to 'french' fries! ha!

but lets face it. iTunes for windows was step one. Rendezvous (er 'Bonjour') for windows is step 2 . . . .step 3, Spotlight for windows . . . step 9,756,842 world domination of apple! (step 4 is a G5 PowerBook!)

[absolut_mac]

Why would Windows need this? :confused:

Hmmm, and you didn't even question why Apple - very cleverly I might add - named this app Bonjour?

To answer your question - so that Windows users can say 'hello' to Apple and au revoir to Bill and his bugs ;)

[jcgerm]

Yay.

No more needing to Re-IP or setup DNS whenever my guests want to connect to my Macintosh network.

Sounds like you need to setup DHCP.

[poundsmack]

please excuse the ignorance, but what exactly does this mean for windows users?

[w_parietti22]

Why would Windows need this? :confused:

Cause Microsoft didn't make their computers (edit: Windows XP) smart enough to realize that another computer is atach to it so Apple had to make it for them.

This is mainly for Mac Users so that they can have a perfect sync with their Windows PC

[Tymmz]

heh. . . Rendezvous is a much better name than Bonjour!!!! i prefer 'fredom' fries to 'french' fries! ha!


toktok, it's hard to get more dumb!!!

[stcanard]

For those people who are wondering why, remember this is far more then iChat.

Shared printers get advertised by Bonjour, so now that's easy.
The apache server on OSX gets advertised by Bonjour
OSXVnc
Shared folders
As has been mentioned iTunes libraries

There are lots of applications. For me the printers alone is a huge deal, as right now I'm trying to share a printer to XP an ME on my home network! Bonjuor for windows, here I come!

[mactastic]

Bonjuor for windows, here I come!

Let me know if it works. Like I said, I'm not getting my printer to show up, and it's supposed to be capable of this.

[pounce]

This seems the most likely

Printer manufacturing for example have started to implement this so PCs should have this kind of feature available, Apple have decided to do this for them which could mean something big, who knows

cool, this is where i'd want this technology. when i'm at work, there is a networked cannon printer that i just cannot connect to with my powerbook when i'm on the network. anything to make any of this cross platform networking easier would be cool.

[sky131]

Does this mean that I will be able to browse to my webserver on the LAN using http://machinename.local from a Windows box?

To answer my own question. This works flawlessly from IE on XP now. HOORAY!

[Porchland]

this is actually kind if a big deal.. i'm assuming it works seamlessly with macs on the same network?


nice, apple makes another chess move.

technocoy

Yep, and it's going to be fun to watch.

It doesn't make sense for Apple to port everything to Windows unless Apple wants to be a software-and-iPod company with only a niche computer business, and that's not what Apple wants to be. I think the philsophy with iPod/iTunes/iTMS was (1) to sell a ton more iPods and (2) to entice Windows users to buy a Mac.

The first argument will apply to anything Apple's not giving away for free; if you port it to Windows, the market is bigger. But the second argument is, i think, where Apple's strategy lies.

I think iChat is the perfect application to port to Windows because it grows the iChat community and potentially sells a ton of iSight devices without giving away any real "Mac" features.

I just hope Apple keeps iLife close to home. You want iPhoto, iMovie HD, iDVD and GarageBand? Buy a Mac.

[Porchland]

2004 airport express called, they want their complimentary wifi ipod to hurry the f0ck up.

There's an Airport Express promo with iTMS expiring in three weeks -- ahem, on a Monday -- so you may get your wish. Or something.

[daustin]

I may be wrong, but I think they changed the name because...if you can believe it...someone sued Apple saying they owned the rights to that name for a similar technology (after about a year or so of Apple using it...took them a while to notice!). Bonjour makes sense...but it is stupid. At least they didn't call it something like iNetwork! I think they go a little overboard with the whole i thing.

[stcanard]

Let me know if it works. Like I said, I'm not getting my printer to show up, and it's supposed to be capable of this.

Oh, I missed that part :(

I let you know if I fare any better. My printer's an i450, for which Canon has intentionally crippled the drivers to make any kind of Mac sharing close to impossible so we'll see.

[jicon]

I have a bit of a success story from a few days ago...

Months ago, I was trying to get my Epson Photo R300 shared between XP and 10.3.9

The printer ran on Windows, or the printer could run on Mac.

Only issue, when hooked up to the windows machine, the Mac didn't have a shared printer driver available for the Epson printer.

I somehow managed to get it to work the other way around with CUPS and IP addresses however.

However, over a month ago, I downloaded the developer edition of Rendevous for Windows, but didn't really do much with it. I should have however.

Running Tiger on my Mac, running XP on my windows machine, this past weekend, I ran the rendevous program to find printers, and there it was, able to install necessary drivers and config information for the Epson printer with the single click of a button.

Nice!

[eric_n_dfw]

You all realize that Rendezvous for Windows has been out for a long time don't you? I've had it on my Win2000 machine for many months (maybe a year). This is just an update to it and it also has the new name (which was mandated by a settlement over Rendezvous trademark infringement).

I remember when Tivo's series 2 Home Media serice was released to allow you to play music off of your Mac or PC; the Windows download was pretty big, something like 8MB compared to about 0.5MB for the OS X. I can only presume that is because it's using Rendezvous/Bonjour and the Windows version had to install all of it while the OS X version was just a few hooks.

Note: The version I have may have been an Apple developer preview version - so maybe this is new to non-developers.

[Sabenth]

wtf lost me the purporse of this is what again

[dotdotdot]

As long as OS X is still OS X with OS X features, we're ok.

Once we see Windows XP starting up with iChat AV and Mail.app and Safari as the default browser, we're screwed.

[xli_ne]

To answer my own question. This works flawlessly from IE on XP now. HOORAY!

how about firefox instead of IE
:D

[MacNemesis]

This is likely more to facilitate many of the enterprise features in an OS X server environment. Jabber, automounted shares, and several other features work well in a Rende--err--Bonjour environment. And certainly printer sharing and other stuff is great in a small workgroup environment where full fledged DNS deployment is unnecessary.

[Trowaman]

When I sign onto iChat at school, there are currently 5 people on my network (including myself) due to how they have divided the network not only by residence halls but at least 4 ways within said halls as well. I would love to talk with all 120 people on my wing now instead of just 4 other people. Go for it Apple!

[buggybear]

"The Bonjour Setup Wizard makes setting up a printer under Windows as easy as Mac OS X (we can’t make it as beautiful, unfortunately)"
HA!...
WIN XP is fugly though...

[nagromme]

I think it's great that Windows is still moving forward!

I was getting a little worried, with Longhorn being stripped down and years delayed.

[Stella]

A company, or product called Tibco, I believe.

The claim was ligitimit and rightfully Apple backed down.

I may be wrong, but I think they changed the name because...if you can believe it...someone sued Apple saying they owned the rights to that name for a similar technology (after about a year or so of Apple using it...took them a while to notice!). Bonjour makes sense...but it is stupid. At least they didn't call it something like iNetwork! I think they go a little overboard with the whole i thing.

[swissmann]

Does Apple make any money on this like through licensing or using the technology? Or are they going to use it for something else they have up their sleeve?

[Dagless]

I'd prefer to see "Au Revoir for Windows."

thats EXACTLY what i saw when i first glanced over the headlines! i thought "Yes! somebody's nuked Microsoft HQ!" but oh well... or is it? this is a good move from Apple. another 'link' to the X86 world.

big things will happen, or so my lightning ball tells me. yea im a cheap skate, couldnt afford a crystal ball. and this ones more fun... oooo lightning at fingers.

*goes back to sleep*

[joeboy_45101]

I remember back in 2003 when Apple was making ready the release of iTunes for Windows. There were so many people on these forums denouncing the move that it was ridiculous. The fact is that iTunes for Windows was a brilliant move that gave a huge boost to Apple's image to the general public. Now, more people are more aware of Apple. I believe Apple could make another public image boost by possibly releasing a version of iChat for Windows. Maybe Safari and Mail would follow, but that all depends on how well Apple's hardware continues to sell. They may come to the conclusion that it is not neccessary to port any more iApps to Windows if they can get a significant number of switchers.

[weatherproof]

heh. . . Rendezvous is a much better name than Bonjour!!!! i prefer 'fredom' fries to 'french' fries! ha!

You do know that Rendezvous is derived from French?

I still like the old name better though, but as long as apples continues their market share gains I could care less about names. :)

[SiliconAddict]

Why would Windows need this? :confused:


http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/images/smiles/twak.gif

So we can use Airport Express....so we can use iTunes streaming. Anyways.

Where the heck is QT7?!?!?!?

[SPUY767]

But some of the best apps I've seen for windows, are published by Apple.

[SilvorX]

Where the heck is QT7?!?!?!?
my thought exactly

It looks like it only includes a toolbar for IE, so no firefox.. I can hear the Firefox fans starting to complain annnnnnnny second now!

[SPUY767]

You do know that Rendezvous is derived from French?

I still like the old name better though, but as long as apples continues their market share gains I could care less about names. :)

Rendezvous is not derived from french, it is french. When used in a context with two individuals it usually has a negative connotation. i.e. if someone says "Voulez vous une rendezvous avec moi?" they're essentially asking if you would like to ride the bone roller coaster.

[otter-boy]

. . . but my guess is that Apple is about to roll out a movie rental service a la iTunes, but they offer a box that hooks up to the TV and networks to the home computer (either PC or Mac). They need to make sure that the device can connect seemlessly to the computer (which already has iTunes/QT7 installed).

Oh yeah, and it will help set up networks in business situations.

[sigamy]

On a somewhat related note...my brother-in-law just purchased a new HP all-in-one printer with built in 802.11. I had no idea they were making printers with 802.11 cards built into the printer!

anyway, I went over to set it up for them and the manual had a bunch of Mac info and even said things like "Mac's use a very simple and user friendly version of 802.11 called Airport", etc. It seemed very pro-Mac.

Needless to say, setup of the printer was a breeze and they are now printing wireless from the two ibooks in the house.

[maxterpiece]

if mac mini is for pc users who want an extra computer for the living room, then this allows the mac mini to communicate with that PC.

[SiliconAddict]

Releasing iChat on the PC would be cool too. Maybe then I will know someone who will have a webcam.


iChat would be eaten alive by Trillian on Windows...There simply is no comparison.

[Mechcozmo]

iThink this has to do with Apple trying to get people to say "oOoh, macs do this automatically? Better double check that Apple Store....."

What do uThink?

[bommai]

I wonder if Bonjour on Windows is Apple's response to the more prevalent uPnP for serving media to set top boxes. Right now, several devices including media center PCs, Roku PhotoBridge (I have one of these), Sound Bridge, etc are starting to support uPnP for media sharing. Using uPnP, you can do media sharing including photos, audio, movies, etc. I think Apple might want to roll out a media box that can connect to a Mac or PC using Bonjour. This box could connect to your home theater system including HDTVs and stream movies, pictures and audio to the TV (essentially replicating what Roku PhotoBridge does).

-Siva

[poundsmack]

iChat eaten alive by Trillian? i dought it. Trillian is a ogod program there is no dought....but come on....its iChat......there is defenently room for both and I am sure iChat would do fine faced off against Trillian...

[Mechcozmo]

On a somewhat related note...my brother-in-law just purchased a new HP all-in-one printer with built in 802.11. I had no idea they were making printers with 802.11 cards built into the printer!

anyway, I went over to set it up for them and the manual had a bunch of Mac info and even said things like "Mac's use a very simple and user friendly version of 802.11 called Airport", etc. It seemed very pro-Mac.

Needless to say, setup of the printer was a breeze and they are now printing wireless from the two ibooks in the house.


We have a wireless HP printer. Very nice. Only issue is that large files take a bit...

But it does appear in Rendezvous automatically! Er, Bonjour. At least its easier to spell... but it sucks. Rather spell check than have to use that name. Oh, well.

[SiliconAddict]

my thought exactly

It looks like it only includes a toolbar for IE, so no firefox.. I can hear the Firefox fans starting to complain annnnnnnny second now!


I will be #1. :(

Why is it that Apple is actively pushing Microsoft's agenda? I mean first with supporting .MAC syncing only with 2K and XP and now this. I'm going to have to play with the plugins. In some cases its as simple as copying a few DLL files from explorer's plugin dir into FireFox's to get the plugin to work. I hope this is the case but toolbars are a bit more complex then simple drag and drop in Internet Imploder. Grrrr.

[J-Squire]

Rendezvous is not derived from french, it is french. When used in a context with two individuals it usually has a negative connotation. i.e. if someone says "Voulez vous une rendezvous avec moi?" they're essentially asking if you would like to ride the bone roller coaster.

OK. You obviously have a weird idea of what constitutes a negative connotation. If a woman directed that sentence at me, I would say it had very positive connotations.

[wPod]

toktok, it's hard to get more dumb!!!


apparently sarcasim isnt expressed very easily on the internet! i was just trying to say that Bonjour seems a bit simple of a name for such a system. why dont we just call it "hello world" (i was also trying to poke fun at the freedom fry people, but i guess im not good at that!)

anyway. i will use plain english now. bonjour is the next step in apple becoming a serious developer for windows. which will in turn convert more people to apple. which will be good :-) until all the virus/spyware people start writing malicious code for apple :-/ i guess you cannot avoid the paparatzi when you are famous!

[SPUY767]

iChat eaten alive by Trillian? i dought it. Trillian is a ogod program there is no dought....but come on....its iChat......there is defenently room for both and I am sure iChat would do fine faced off against Trillian...

Agreed. iChat and trillian are different applications. There purpose is different. Trillian is for chatroom stalkers who want to maximize the amount of teenage cheerleaders they can talk to by using EVERY chat protocol ever. iChat is an OS level integrated system designed for ease of use, minimal need to configure, and of late, High quality video chat. Check it!

[kainjow]

Apple will never port over a Mac app that was made with Cocoa, that's just about every program, including Safari, Mail and iChat.

[SiliconAddict]

iChat eaten alive by Trillian? i dought it. Trillian is a ogod program there is no dought....but come on....its iChat......there is defenently room for both and I am sure iChat would do fine faced off against Trillian...

The only way Apple would be able to compete with Trillian is to make it FREE on Windows since Trillian is not.

Have you used Trillian? I've played around with iChat. Its a good chat client if all you want is AIM with next to no additional features.


I'd suggest checking out Trillian 3's features (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com/features/) I have v2.13

My Trillian Pro install currently has AIM/ICQ/Yahoo/MSN/IRC up and running. I have an iChat skin on it that was good enough to fool a life long Mac user into thinking that Apple release iChat for Windows. The application supports all kinds of plugins. My favorite being IM forwarder.

[lilclmrboy]

Seems like this speaks to users who plan on utilizing Xgrid. Xgrid does the leg work of creating a cluster via Bonjour - finally Windoze boxes can now be actually used for something useful. :)

[SiliconAddict]

Agreed. iChat and trillian are different applications. There purpose is different. Trillian is for chatroom stalkers who want to maximize the amount of teenage cheerleaders they can talk to by using EVERY chat protocol ever. iChat is an OS level integrated system designed for ease of use, minimal need to configure, and of late, High quality video chat. Check it!


:rolleyes: Right. Because entering each username password, clicking next and repeating the process until you have all your clients set up takes a freaking rocket scientist. I love how people love to keep using Apple's supposed motto Think Different yet when an app comes along that supports every protocol everyone regroups and it’s Think Apple. :rolleyes:

PS- And I can't tell you how much easier my life is at stalking people now that I have Trillian. I mean before I had to have 3 clients open which was a real pain when I got my conversations crossed. :rolleyes:

[sirjimithy1]

I agree with the above that this is a trojan. I have a sneeky feeling that this has something to do with future video / networking tech that we don't know about yet.

I set up an airport express last night (upgrading from a linksys 802.11b router), and I was extremely impressed not only with the internet / data transfer speeds, but especially with the ease of getting the network printer to work. I was surprised to find that it used Bonjour, I thought that had to be a printer specific deal (I didn't know the airport products utilized the technology)

Anyway, I have a feeling this is bigger than it seems.

-alywa

There's nothing really hidden about it. Airport Base Stations have been using Bonjour (Rendezvous) for sharing printers since the first Airport Extreme Base Station, and Apple came right out and said that's the technology they use for Airport printer sharing. It's built into several OS X Applications, including Image Capture, iPhoto, Safari, iTunes, Printer Setup Utility, iChat and just about other app that comunicates over a network. Airport Express base stations use it for Airtunes to make it discoverable to iTunes. It's by no means a trojan.

[cheekyspanky]

I had Rendezvous installed on my PC months ago, I think it was in the developer section, but it was definitely available.

[bretm]

I'd rather have ical, safari, addressbook and isync for windoze. Not that many people can take full advantage of isync unless they have 2 macs. Most pepple have to use windoze at work so it would be great to be able to sync your calander, bookmarks and contacts with your macs or even other windozes machines. The more apple apps on windoze, the better.

When you use isync all those things are put into your .mac account. They are put into your phone. They are put into your ipod. They sync your laptop to your main computer. But just having my bookmarks online and my address book online and my calendar online is a reason to get .mac and use isync. My girlfriend has a mac, but uses hotmail, so I sync all my stuff on her computer as well and it's just like home.

[bretm]

iThink this has to do with Apple trying to get people to say "oOoh, macs do this automatically? Better double check that Apple Store....."

What do uThink?

I think it's simply Apple expanding the company. When is everyone going to realize everything that Apple does is not to make people go "oh, maybe I should buy a mac?" Apple is a company trying to expand. It has lost the platform wars. Henceforth itunes and ipod. iTunes for windows made it a viable product for windows users. Apple wants to sell stuff and make money. They also want to make the best stuff and believe their platform is better, but they know they can't hang on that forever. Look for them to be more of a software company in the future, porting over iMove, FCP, etc. to windows. Then, maybe the OS. Then look for them to become a high end PC manufacturer like Sony. Rumor is they almost went Intel until IBM came along with the G5. Motorola came close to destroying them as a hardware company - and you've got to figure they don't plan on ever being backed into that corner again.

[killuminati]

i just wish it was still called rendezvous! :rolleyes:

Me too, Bonjour sounds so corny. I guess it kinda still makes sense though.

[Gimzotoy]

The only way Apple would be able to compete with Trillian is to make it FREE on Windows since Trillian is not.

Have you used Trillian? I've played around with iChat. Its a good chat client if all you want is AIM with next to no additional features.

Trillian is definately the chat app to beat on Windows. And seriously, iChat isn't even the best chat program available for OS X (Adium). I should probably qualify that with the fact that I do no videoconferencing, which would be the only reason for me to fire up iChat, really. Unless you spend lots of time on IM in videoconferences, you can probably do better than iChat.

[Mechcozmo]

I think it's simply Apple expanding the company. When is everyone going to realize everything that Apple does is not to make people go "oh, maybe I should buy a mac?" Apple is a company trying to expand. It has lost the platform wars. Henceforth itunes and ipod. iTunes for windows made it a viable product for windows users. Apple wants to sell stuff and make money. They also want to make the best stuff and believe their platform is better, but they know they can't hang on that forever. Look for them to be more of a software company in the future, porting over iMove, FCP, etc. to windows. Then, maybe the OS. Then look for them to become a high end PC manufacturer like Sony. Rumor is they almost went Intel until IBM came along with the G5. Motorola came close to destroying them as a hardware company - and you've got to figure they don't plan on ever being backed into that corner again.


Uh, except that Apple makes nearly nothing on their OS. They make all their money on their hardware. That is why you won't ever see OS X on x86 or x64. They will never be a software company. Apple is first and foremost a hardware company, that spends a lot of time making software that helps to sell their hardware.

Oh, and whats iMove? :p

BTW, FCP won't work very well on a Windows box seeing as it requires the ability to use the graphics card for on-the-fly previews. Windows doesn't work so well like that. Unless you start bringing Quartz over. Which requires a fair chunk of the OS if you think about it... all that tight hardware integration... I've got an idea, lets make our own hardware so that we can be SURE it all works nicely!

Oh, wait. :rolleyes:

[broken_keyboard]

Maybe Bonjour is to programmers what the iPod is to consumers.

The consumer likes the iPod so much he considers buying a Mac.
The programmer likes the Bonjour API so much he gets curious about the OS X platform as a whole.

Or maybe they needed to port it for iTunes anyway, and thought they might as well release it separately...

[JesterJJZ]

Will never happen. If they port anything, it'll be the pro applications


I completely disagree. They will sooner port the entire line of consumer Apple software plus OSX to windows before they ever port Final Cut Pro. FCP is the sole reason why many many many people in the film and video industry get Macs to begin with, myself included. We make up most of Apple's hardware sales, ipod excluded. We are the one's getting multiple G5's, displays and Xraids. Apple will not want to let us go.

[JeffTL]

Very similar to Quicktime, and over-due in my opinion. It's going to be great: seeing peripheral packages with the Quicktime, Mac OS and now Bonjour logos. Zero config. Good Move. :)

The main peripheral that really calls for Bonjour is a network printer -- and none of them bear the Bonjour logo because it's implied. All name-brand network printers support Bonjour -- though it'd be good marketing on the part of HP et alii to go ahead and put the logo on the box.

[Makosuke]

You all realize that Rendezvous for Windows has been out for a long time don't you? I've had it on my Win2000 machine for many months (maybe a year).
Really? I sure wish I'd known that.

As far as I can tell, whether this is a first release or just an update, it's fairly straightforward: If you want to make sure your protocol is widely supported, make sure everybody can use it. Bonjour (man, of all the alternate words to pick, why that one?) is a neat and tidy way to get your printer working, as well as a few other things. Making sure that it's available for Windows will encourage printer manufacturers to support/keep supporting it.

If it becomes widespread enough, you've got a "standard" technology you can rely on to be supported by lots of manufacturers.

Luck would have it that we got a new Bonjour-enabled Brother printer where I work today (meaning I can get to it even before the glacially slow IT dept. gets it added to the DNS system), and I also noticed that OSX Server supports making LPR printers available via Rendezvous. I'm hoping that'll make it easier to configure than the flaming hoops I had to jump through to get Windows boxes printing through the XServe up till now. (Sure, you can SEE SMB shared printers, but actually print to them? Ha!)

[deanbo]

I still can't believe Apple would choose the name Bonjour for this technology.
Why not just call it g'day mate!

[slb]

Since I don't know why Apple would release this, my only guess is to use the Windows platform to permeate more Apple technologies, like with iTunes. Apple tech everywhere. :)

[cube]

Rendezvous is not derived from french, it is french. When used in a context with two individuals it usually has a negative connotation. i.e. if someone says "Voulez vous une rendezvous avec moi?" they're essentially asking if you would like to ride the bone roller coaster.

Actually, in French it is rendez-vous (un, not une)
It's just an appointment.

[weg]

Must. Change. Name! Now! Rendezvous much better, Bonjour is well--kinda dumb, IMHO.

Don't worry.. there will be localized versions.
"God Dag" for the countries of northern europe.
"Guten Tag" for Germany
"Gruess Gott" for Austria
"Gruezi" for Switzerland
"Buonos Dias", "Buon Giorno", "Dober Dan", "Jo napot" and so on...

[Makosuke]

Well, threw this on four Windows boxes, and in installs an extra Bonjour Printer Setup application that you use to add Bonjour printers. Seems to work pretty well--basically configures an LPR printer with a port that would otherwise have taken a bunch of manual typing to set up--and it ended up saving me some boring repetitive typing, so I have nothing to complain about.

One complaint: It sets up printers shared (via Bonjour) on OSX Server properly with one tiny exception: it doesn't automatically turn on "LPR Byte
Counting Enabled" (whatever on God's Good Earth that is), which is required to print to a printer hosted from OSX Server (at least with my printers and network, anyway). If I hadn't already figured out that that needed to be on, and so gone in and clicked the checkbox manually, I'd have thought that it wasn't working at all.

Still, like I said, it saved me a bunch of typing, so I have no complaints.

Oh, and by the way, if there are going to be localized versions, the US one should be called "How's It Going", except unlike other zero-configuration technologies, it actually cares about the answer.

[Neerazan]

I wonder if Bonjour on Windows is Apple's response to the more prevalent uPnP for serving media to set top boxes. Right now, several devices including media center PCs, Roku PhotoBridge (I have one of these), Sound Bridge, etc are starting to support uPnP for media sharing. Using uPnP, you can do media sharing including photos, audio, movies, etc. I think Apple might want to roll out a media box that can connect to a Mac or PC using Bonjour. This box could connect to your home theater system including HDTVs and stream movies, pictures and audio to the TV (essentially replicating what Roku PhotoBridge does).

-Siva


I'm with you on this one.

Steve has always said that he doesn't believe that anyone wants to use their computer on their TV, but more and more people do want to use the content that is on their computers on their TV / stereo / home cinema / whatever...

Expect Apple to launch some kind of wireless networked TiVO type box with HD QT7 playback / record facility into the market soon, along with the much anticipated wireless iPod perhaps? Online iVideo Store can but follow...

[Morky]

This is just the final version. I have had the preview version of Rendezvous installed on my PC at work since last July.

[benpatient]

They might as well have called it iVirus for Windows.

Because it's going to get hacked, now, and I wouldn't be surprised if that effects OS X users, too...

great.

[bwintx]

Don't worry.. there will be localized versions.
"God Dag" for the countries of northern europe.
"Guten Tag" for Germany
"Gruess Gott" for Austria
"Gruezi" for Switzerland
"Buonos Dias", "Buon Giorno", "Dober Dan", "Jo napot" and so on...

And let's not forget state-by-state names in the U.S.
Here are a few possibilities.

Texas: "Howdy"
California: "Dude!!!"
New York: "Howyadooin?"
Louisiana: "How y'all ah?" (Actually, they'd probably prefer "Bonjour" after all, come to think of it)
;)

[raincoat]

Is Rendezvous/Bonjour automatic or do you have to switch it oon or off?

[Porchland]

Trillian is definately the chat app to beat on Windows. And seriously, iChat isn't even the best chat program available for OS X (Adium). I should probably qualify that with the fact that I do no videoconferencing, which would be the only reason for me to fire up iChat, really. Unless you spend lots of time on IM in videoconferences, you can probably do better than iChat.

I don't even use chat apps, and I'd like to see iChat port to Windows. It's all about getting a critical mass and spreading the Apple-y goodness.

As far as software, I agree with the post above that Apple has no reason to port OSX, FCP or its other big brands to Windows. Anything Apple lets out of the yard is going to be an app they can use to entice Windows purchasers to buy Macs or Apple-branded devices and accessories that work on Windows.

[BenRoethig]

The more mac standards that become available on windows the the better. Why? Its better for us if they're using our stuff than if they're using Microsoft's stuff which tries its best to be incompatible.

[SPUY767]

Actually, in French it is rendez-vous (un, not une)
It's just an appointment.

It's been years since I lived in france, my french is a tad rusty, but it has a negative connotation, such as an appointment with a prostitute.

[LosJackal]

I'm with you on this one.

Steve has always said that he doesn't believe that anyone wants to use their computer on their TV, but more and more people do want to use the content that is on their computers on their TV / stereo / home cinema / whatever...

Expect Apple to launch some kind of wireless networked TiVO type box with HD QT7 playback / record facility into the market soon, along with the much anticipated wireless iPod perhaps? Online iVideo Store can but follow...

A cross-platform iFlicks program that can stream HD H.264-encoded content to an Airport Express A/V connected to your living room TV and stereo.

I have an Airport Express currently in my living room (for use with my Macs), and was pleasantly surprised when I fired up iTunes on a PC by chance and it detected it automatically. Bonjour is a very "enabling" technology.

[dicklacara]

As long as OS X is still OS X with OS X features, we're ok.

Once we see Windows XP starting up with iChat AV and Mail.app and Safari as the default browser, we're screwed.
au contraire...

...apres le deluge...

P.S. I prefer liaison to bonjour!

[cube]

It's been years since I lived in france, my french is a tad rusty, but it has a negative connotation, such as an appointment with a prostitute.

You can have a rendez-vous with anybody.

[Mechcozmo]

I still can't believe Apple would choose the name Bonjour for this technology.
Why not just call it g'day mate!

I like that name...
"This printer is 'G'day Mate!' enabled"

Well, maybe not.

[sinisterdesign]

i'm picturing Gates' crew reverse engineering Bonjour for Looooonghorn.

"no, we had that built into the new OS all along. seriously. we just didn't want to show it off too much..."

[stcanard]

Let me know if it works. Like I said, I'm not getting my printer to show up, and it's supposed to be capable of this.

It worked! Quite easily actually. Printer was shared on Tiger, I installed Bonjour on the XP system, ran the printer wizard and it was listed (still not as nice as the OSX system where the printers just automatically show up in your print dialog).

The only catch was that because of Canon's boneheaded i1450 driver (come on, it advertises the host as 127.0.0.1 and device as file:///dev/null could they have worked any harder at making this thing not shareable?) I had to play a game: I created a new queue through printer setup utility and set it to use a BJC7000 driver, then used bonjour to connect to that one.

[Blackjack75]

It's been years since I lived in france, my french is a tad rusty, but it has a negative connotation, such as an appointment with a prostitute.

Well, I am afraidy your french friends used to make fun of you back then :-)

I happen to be french-speaking (from french swizerland, which in terms of language essentially means France, frontier-aside).

"Un rendez-vous" is just a plain appointment. You can have a rendez-vous with a girl or with your friends at some bar, or a professional rendez-vous at the office.

The only other meaning would be "rendez vous!" as in "Surrender!". And even then that would not include any relation with a prostitute, unless you're not willing to pay!

Did you happen to live in Pigalle or something? In that place even Bonjour could have negative connotation :-)

[nms]

why would Apple want to do this, surely it's not going to increase their influence THAT much. I'm not against it, it just seems a little....feeble? pointless? someone please enlighten me...

EDIT: with regards to the localisations of Bonjour, if this happens i can see an iTMS argument all over again...

[ifjake]

i think it's yet another example of how Apple software just works. you don't have to worry about weird networking stuff with your PC if you buy a Mac, Bonjour will do it for you (that's the idea anyway ;) ) . That actually reminds me about a CNET article about longhorn, how someone was quoted that they were going to make it "just work" and then proceeded to give two examples: putting a DVD in the drive automatically launches your DVD player and plugging in a projector automatically configures it to display, two things that i've been able to do since i had my Mac. seems as though Apple's getting bored with waiting for Microsoft people to get it to "just work" and are doing it for them. honestly i'm not that big of a mac head, but some of these things are just too obvious.

and i don't think Apple really cared what they renamed it. like people have said it's supposed to work in the background. i'm just happy to hear Apple involved in a lawsuit that didn't involve bullying on their part.

[Booga]

By the way, is the Windows version of AIM compatible with iChat video and voice chat?

The current version of iChat is incompatible with iChat videoconferencing. I can't imagine AIM works any better. A lot of people are waiting for 10.4.1 on that one.

[Booga]

why would Apple want to do this, surely it's not going to increase their influence THAT much. I'm not against it, it just seems a little....feeble? pointless? someone please enlighten me...

EDIT: with regards to the localisations of Bonjour, if this happens i can see an iTMS argument all over again...

Basically, Apple is pushing the zeroconf (aka Bonjour) standard. If zeroconf doesn't take off, someone else will do something else (incompatible.) In order for a standard to really be useful, it has to run on Windows. It's basically just an insurance policy.

It's actually a really nice technology, and I think has a decent chance to catch on in Windows, and probably, yes, get integrated into Longhorn. But if there's support for it now everywhere, it's less likely that Longhorn would instead go with some sort of "MicrosoftConf" that leaves Apple in the lurch.

[BenRoethig]

Personally, I don't care what they call it as long as it works.

[hbwill]

[QUOTE=nrd] Apple is a hardware company. It's not going to up and adopt the x86 architecture any time soon.
[QUOTE]

I am not so sure. What would happen if Apple ported OSX to x86? Surely, there would be an increase in software sales and in OS market share. Would that destroy Apples hardware business? They could position the hardware as just the best damn hardware around (which is a good argument) and optimized for the best damn OS around (for consumers). They already take this position. Also, it would be a huge media event, and it would make initial "switching" very easy. Wouldn't that actually increase Apples hardware market position as well as compel more third party software? Many small businesses would love to reduce their windows support costs.

[gfer]

Look for them to be more of a software company in the future, porting over iMove, FCP, etc. to windows

Like Logic and Shake for Windows after Apple bought them? :p

[slidingjon]

perhaps apple is making printers again, like the old days! Buy the printer, get it home, plug it in, no drivers to install, bonjour finds it automatically whether you're a mac or winsuckdows user. equals huge hardware sells. puts hp printers out of business.... ok...not going to happen. just a thought.

[pounce]

It's been years since I lived in france, my french is a tad rusty, but it has a negative connotation, such as an appointment with a prostitute.

that's negative???

[nms]

[QUOTE=nrd] Apple is a hardware company. It's not going to up and adopt the x86 architecture any time soon.
[QUOTE]

I am not so sure. What would happen if Apple ported OSX to x86? Surely, there would be an increase in software sales and in OS market share. Would that destroy Apples hardware business? They could position the hardware as just the best damn hardware around (which is a good argument) and optimized for the best damn OS around (for consumers). They already take this position. Also, it would be a huge media event, and it would make initial "switching" very easy. Wouldn't that actually increase Apples hardware market position as well as compel more third party software? Many small businesses would love to reduce their windows support costs.

interesting point....wrong thread maybe?

[bbyrdhouse]

Well, I have been running Tiger for 3 hours now without a single hitch.

Seriously though, I have to admit that things doo seem to be running more smoothly.

In 10.3.9 Safari seemed to hang up very often along with mail.app but so far there doesn't seem to be the same problem in 10.4

[Mechcozmo]

Apple also provides and SDK for developers to incorporate Bonjour technology into their applications.

Anyone else notice that? :)

[Mechcozmo]

For all of you "Apple should port OS X to the x86" search for it. Its been done, and it won't happen. Ever.

So please stop saying "OOoohhh, what if...." because it won't happen. And I don't want to drag up each and every single point here, again.

[bbyrdhouse]

For all of you "Apple should port OS X to the x86" search for it. Its been done, and it won't happen. Ever.

So please stop saying "OOoohhh, what if...." because it won't happen. And I don't want to drag up each and every single point here, again.


I believe that OS X for x86 went by the name "Marklar", if I am not mistaken.

Read this thread http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2002/08/20020830181129.shtml

[dicklacara]

For all of you "Apple should port OS X to the x86" search for it. Its been done, and it won't happen. Ever.

So please stop saying "OOoohhh, what if...." because it won't happen. And I don't want to drag up each and every single point here, again.


The question is not:

"Should OS X should run on x86?";

rather:

"Should Apple Applications run on WIndows?".

...reminds one of:

"Sex is not the answer!".

"Sex is the question!"

...the answer is "Yes!"

[hob]

Must. Change. Name! Now! Rendezvous much better, Bonjour is well--kinda dumb, IMHO.
Yeah, why did they have to change it again? I really hate the new name!!

[poundsmack]

why not just call it "Zero Config" :D

[eXan]

Maybe then I will know someone who will have a webcam.

Fishes,
narco.

I have a DV camera that can work as a web-cam. Now you know one with the web-cam! :D

[SPUY767]

You just call it Z-Net. Second, anyone who suggests that apple will port any apps other than iTunes to windows is on the pipe. Innovative software solutions drive a LOT of high end sales.

[sandau]

The only way Apple would be able to compete with Trillian is to make it FREE on Windows since Trillian is not.

Have you used Trillian? I've played around with iChat. Its a good chat client if all you want is AIM with next to no additional features.


I'd suggest checking out Trillian 3's features (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com/features/) I have v2.13

My Trillian Pro install currently has AIM/ICQ/Yahoo/MSN/IRC up and running. I have an iChat skin on it that was good enough to fool a life long Mac user into thinking that Apple release iChat for Windows. The application supports all kinds of plugins. My favorite being IM forwarder.

but the interface and configuration for trillian was made by a monkey with a poop hammer. what idiot built that thing? Yes, it works great for multiple chat programs but is has the worst POS UI I've ever come across. Ick. In comparison, iChat is pretty much a zero config setup. Even Gaim on windows is easy to use compared to T.

Bonjour is the first step, there is a lot going on this year with Apple.

[cheapnis]

I can't get this (Bonjour for Windows) to install on XP Pro - the installer says it's "interrupted" - any clues from those who know more about windoze than me? (i.e. the rest of the world!)

I think I've stopped all the various anti "stuff" I've got loaded into it - firewall and adware and registry guard type thingys - and I have all the latest updates so no idea what can be interrupting it and there's nothing on google or apple discussions to help...

[nms]

why not just call it "Zero Config" :D

as we're on the names bandwagon....again...

zero config....could be shortened to 0C or zc.....
rendezvous was shortened to rv...was it not
and bonjour......bj? :D

i dont think apple thought ahead with this one :p

"we can't use rendezvous, so i want you all to think of the first other french word that pops into your head"
"why do we have to use a french name"
"just DO IT."
*-2 seconds later-*
"bonjour?"
"bonjour? agreed. meeting adjourned."

[Katkoota]

This is interesting :)

[GregA]

Will never happen. If they port anything, it'll be the pro applications and even then that's not likely. Apple is a hardware company. It's not going to up and adopt the x86 architecture any time soon.I also doubt Apple is about to release iMovie or iDVD for Windows.

Bonjour is a great way of having Macs and Windows machines network more efficiently. Printers should have the biggest advantage (I'm downloading now!).

As for "Apple is a hardware company" - that's a different thing. If Apple was simply a hardware company then they could sell Apple hardware running Windows. Apple is a hardware and software company, and there are many ways for Apple to find it's place in our computing world.

I would not be surprised to see iPhoto (exclusively for iPod owners?) or iChat+iSight sold for Windows - no more than that though.

[GregA]

Apple will never port over a Mac app that was made with Cocoa, that's just about every program, including Safari, Mail and iChat.Not sure why you say that. What makes Cocoa harder to port than Carbon? (especially since WebObjects runs on a subset of Cocoa on Windows).

Thanks.

[poundsmack]

If Apple was simply a hardware company then they could sell Apple hardware running Windows.

find me the version of windows that runs nativly on apple hardware and I will buy it :D and if they tried to enter into the ubber congested x86 sellers market....well they would not make a tenth of what thye make now

[GregA]

find me the version of windows that runs nativly on apple hardware and I will buy it :D and if they tried to enter into the ubber congested x86 sellers market....well they would not make a tenth of what thye make nowAre you saying that current Apple hardware running Windows XP would make money, but that Apple hardware with an AMD chip running Windows XP would get them less than a tenth of what they make now?

I prefer the PowerPC, but I don't think your logic holds.

Windows NT was available for PowerPC a few years back, and MS has a development platform running on Apple hardware now. if Apple asked MS to take over OS development on Apple hardware it'd happen pretty fast.

I hope that never happens - my whole point is that Apple is not just a hardware company, it is also a software company. They make heaps of money from their software, it's just that it's hidden as a bundle with the hardware.

[poundsmack]

i miss understood. i didnt think you were reffering to apple suporting ofther processors. i thought u were jsut talking about there current offerings, my mistake. but i still think current windows users will stick to dell, hp, compaq, gateway, etc...... since that is hat they are used to. most windows users I know think the mac and apple are inferior (since microsoft has led them like sheep) so to an extent it would be an awfully though sell. though SUN has been selling operon based machines for a while and doing quite well with it......but i dont think apple would have quite the same luck. but personaly i hope they never go that route.

[FYA]

They should call it "G'day mate!" :rolleyes:

[Les Kern]

As it is with a typical Windows experience, I downloaded Bonjour to test and gave up after too much time mucking around. I have a Sony Vaio all-in-one besides the Macs, with an HP laser printer that is "aware" of zero-config. Of COURSE the printer was never seen. To be thourough, I downloaded the drivers twice, the first time the files were corrupt. Then, after Bonjour wouldn't work, I downloaded the HP utility for network printers, THAT couldn't see it either. Hmm.. it HAS an IP number. The Mac? One click and I'm printing, as usual. To be sure I started up the OS9 version of the HP utility on the Mac. Sure enough, there it is. So I fired up a browser on the PC and entered the IP to check the configuration (Not supported on the Mac!). Oops. java error. Oops, java error. Oops, says not connected. I loaded! AHA! IPX was off! Turned it on. Bojour didn't work, but the HP utility did.
Set it up to print. Done. Total time on Mac: <1 minute. Total time on PC: about an hour. I've wasted enough time on it to go try to figure out why Bonjour doesn't work on the PC. Bah.

[macorama]

Yeah, why did they have to change it again? I really hate the new name!!
Rendezvous was a trademark of a company called Tibco, they settled out of court and part of the deal was obviously that Apple would change the name.

[ltgator333]

I don't understand why Apple would make something like this then just port it to windows.... I mean isn't windows server kinda a competing product to OS X server?? Just because M$ doesn't know what 'making things easy' means doesn't mean that Apple needs to help them with it.

[poundsmack]

I really hate standing up for MS but this is one of the few cases I will say something nice on there behalf. windows server 2003 was done very very well. microsoft knows what theya re doing in that department. in amost all other departments.....well......lets just say they are gona be playing catch up for a while. but I really dont think OSX is quite server ready *yet* Tiger brought them a lot closer though. there are a few things MS has done right over the years. they make a damn good IDE, they do a pretty darn good job on there server os, and they made Paint. I love ms paint lol. I am gona get so flamed for this post.....oh well....let the flaming begin :rolleyes:

[Truffy]

heh. . . Rendezvous is a much better name than Bonjour!!!!I agree. I understand that they had to change the name from Rendezvous, but why choose Bonjour? I know what it means, it just sounds crap! :(

[stcanard]

I don't understand why Apple would make something like this then just port it to windows.... I mean isn't windows server kinda a competing product to OS X server?? Just because M$ doesn't know what 'making things easy' means doesn't mean that Apple needs to help them with it.

Because making it really easy to stick a Mac into the middle of a Windows network is the first step towards getting a foothold into the coprorate world.

[Jay Cowan]

Great concept. I am sure Apple has an alterior motive for releasing Bonjour for Windows, and I like that.

But, when I loaded it onto a Dell PC with WinXP pro, the installer twice blew up and reported that it could not find an appropriate .dll on the PC. Soooooo typical of my PC experience. Who's at fault here, Windows or Apple? :(

[stcanard]

But, when I loaded it onto a Dell PC with WinXP pro, the installer twice blew up and reported that it could not find an appropriate .dll on the PC. Soooooo typical of my PC experience. Who's at fault here, Windows or Apple? :(

Bonjour on a Win XP Home Edition Compaq installed without a hitch here, so I would assume it's either Windows or Dell at fault. You can only ever get 95% of the numerous variations sorted out.

[Les Kern]

Bonjour on a Win XP Home Edition Compaq installed without a hitch here, so I would assume it's either Windows or Dell at fault. You can only ever get 95% of the numerous variations sorted out.

On my Sony Vaio laptop it worked as well. My question is this: Why isn't the same technology resident with XP, and why isn't there an install from MS?

[Maxiseller]

I really think that this is a great move by Apple.

I mean, it shows XP up doesn't it?

But even though the technology isn't "on display" it could make Apple's lives a lot easier to integrate with Windows in the future. I mean, we all know that Windows isn't going anywhere for a considerable number of years - bt Apple is sure as hell taking the right, very small steps to not having to have any Microsoft dependance. As soon as iWork has a spreadsheet app, I'm getting rid of Microsoft for good.

When I first switched, I was a little overwhelmed by everything NOT being Microsoft. Now though, its so liberating. I'm using packages downloaded, purchased and have more productivity than ever before. Three cheers apple!

[NightFox]

Although others have said it is in this thread, I think the reaon Apple have released this is obvious - who is even going to consider adding a Mac to a Windows network if they're then going to have to spend hours and hours getting the things talking? Remove that obstacle, and you'll get lots more of "experimenters".

However, all that being said, not so sure I fully understand if this is a useful product for me. I have a Windows XP workgroup-based wireless network at home, on which sits my Mac Mini. I have an Espon R800 connected via USB directly to one of the PCs, and this is set as "shared". When I run Bonjour on this PC, it does not detect any printers. Should it be detecting this Epson, or will it only detect printers with their own network server?

I have tried using the printer from my Mac without using Bonjour or Rendezvous, just using Windows Printing on my Mac, but their doesn't seem to be an appropriate driver on the Mac so I either get no printing or garbage.

Anyone offer any help?

Thanks

[IVIIVI4ck3y27]

iChat would be eaten alive by Trillian on Windows...There simply is no comparison.

Trillian (FREE) is cumbersome, f'ugly (most of the themes are as bad as WinAMP themes IMHO), bloated, and annoying with it's oddball (to say the least) interface conventions like containers and other crap. Miranda is much better if you want a multi-chat messenger on Windows. Remember... iChat... would likely be free. Comparing Trillian's free version to the iChat free version is no contest... iChat kills it. The pay version of Trillian is supposedly better... but once again, you are "PAYING" for it. Netscape was a "pay product" for years and even though IE was originally much worse than Netscape... guess which one won?

Miranda might be more in contention because it is free, does what Trillian/AdiumX does (multiple chats other than just Jabber + AIM), and doesn't suck in terms of interface design compared to the free Trillian version. Then again... few out there really know about Miranda and Apple is a higher profile company, not an open-source product made by Keebler Elves in a Hollow Tree. Which begs the question... If their tree falls in the forest... will anyone really hear it?

[IVIIVI4ck3y27]

Oh, and by the way, if there are going to be localized versions, the US one should be called "How's It Going", except unlike other zero-configuration technologies, it actually cares about the answer.

I prefer "Whazzzzzzzzzzzzzzzap?" instead, like the old Budweiser commercials. ;)

[IVIIVI4ck3y27]

Anyone consider that since Bonjour for Windows wasn't released officially to the mass public very long ago as a 1.0 release, and the fact that there is an SDK, that many of the functionalities capable off of Bonjour with regard to printing aren't totally available until said companies release Bonjour-capable drivers? I think Bonjour is one of them products that many printer vendors producing wireless capable printers (and perhaps networking vendors, software vendors that use network-based tech, etc.) will clamor for, and the more prevalent it becomes (I'm sure Apple won't even mind if printer companies bundle it on CD with their units as a required install, saves them software development and plays nice with Macs for networking which is a coup for Apple), the quicker it becomes... a standard. ;) At which point, Apple can piggyback technologies on top of it for other software apps up their sleeves that further push the Apple mindshare into the Microsoft market.

As far as iDVD and other iApps. Outside of iChat I don't think Apple will release much of anything else that they currently offer. I can see iChat because it's a very elegant chat program that's not buggy, and isn't riddled with banner ads or a nasty interface. It just works. That's a political coup for Apple. With regards to the iApps... if Apple releases them for Windows, they cast out much of the potential argument for buying a Mac mini and networking it to your Windows PC via Bonjour to try it out. Why do it if the apps. that make the Mac more enjoyable/valuable are available for PC too? I can see releasing them individually for sale to Windows users, but I doubt many would opt-in when preexisting packages are available already. If Apple won't even work out licensing of iDVD to external DVD burner drive manufacturers, or create an SDK for driver support for said units... I doubt you'll see it available on Windows.

Bonjour isn't a hardcore networking piece of software for businesses (at least not yet, releasing it with an SDK opens some potentials) but... it is a very simple and easy to install networking software for your average computer user who could be a potential switcher that wants to network their Mac and PC's together in an easy way without the frustrations of having to manually set up the network. Apple can argue that the Mac is a personal server. They can argue that it's a digital hub for doing basic photo editing with iPhoto, or for creating musical scores with Garageband, or burning family movies to DVD to share with iDVD. If Apple can make this end of the user experience seamless (Mac<->PC networking)... then they are creating more mindshare for Apple as a brand which translates into the potential for an outright "conversion" rather than a strictly platform agnostic environment. As others have noted... it's another Trojan horse of sorts. Except in a verrrrrrrrrrrry good way.

Just an idea.

As far as the person talking about Cocoa apps. never appearing on Windows.

Are you mad?

NeXT Openstep had a set of API's which evolved into what Cocoa is today, much as Openstep became Rhapsody which evolved into OS X out of need/requirement. At one point, NeXT released these API's as an install on Windows machines... so that NeXT applications like OmniWeb and the like were available for installation on Windows. They looked and behaved like a Windows application, but were merely a recompiled Openstep application. The fact is... it has been done.

The other fact of the matter is... a movement to x86-only would still be a painful move as a lot of people realistically don't go out and buy every piece of software new everytime a new OS version and version of said software comes out. Imagine deciding to upgrade to a new x86 powered Mac? Existing applications would have to run in emulation (and be painfully slow as I'll address later). If people have to upgrade their "useful" applications at point of purchase to make the new hardware usable... a lot of end-users would hold out for awhile til the applications were all ported, 'til they have all of the $ to buy everything in one lump sum (so Apple loses sales nearterm that could damage the companies quarterly profits and devalue the company), and many people would likely wait 1 or 2 generations of updates to said apps. and hardware at the very least to make sure Apple and the various companies get things running smoothly. It took Apple long enough to build a head of steam and turn OS X from slowish to reasonably quick and usable. To go through that again? Echhhh... no thanks. I'll sacrifice some speed at the top end if required rather than go through another monumental transition at this juncture. Which would happen.

Beyond those points... the performance gains are minimal between the 2 at this juncture. The reason the CISC Motorola 68k processor to PowerPC 601/603/604 worked was because the PowerPC processors were much faster than the last used Motorola 68k chips in Macs (68040, the Macs never used the 68060). So the Mac could emulate a 68k Mac and it's software at about 1/2-2/3 as fast as it runs native applications. Emulating a PowerPC on x86... would be excruciatingly painful and slow, especially since Mac OS X is a much more processor consuming OS than System 7/7.5 was. It'd be like trying to run Tiger or Panther out of an older G3 or 604e in terms of performance. Considering that most software vendors just made the move to OS X... another change right now would be a significantly bad idea. Down the road perhaps... but at that point, IBM would have to fall so significantly far behind Intel and AMD to make it worthwhile. I don't ever foresee that happening with all of the technologies that IBM has pioneered and patented that have been licensed by the other 2.

You'll see Apple move to a derivative of IBM's Power# series or a more robust server/workstation version of IBM's/Sony's/Toshiba's Cell chip (itself PowerPC based, and I wouldn't be surprised if the PowerPC <-> Cell eventually become interchangeable in regards to terminology) before you see them on x86. I'm pretty confident in that regard.

[txtravelboy]

For those of you that have a windows machine and want to communicate to your Mac's using Bonjour (local network only) Here's a link to a iChat for Windows application: http://xurble.org/projects/2005/04/rendezvous-protocol-for-miranda.html