PS3 details!

[AoWolf]

http://gflpraxis.no-ip.com/ps3_1.jpg http://gflpraxis.no-ip.com/ps3_2.jpg

http://www.cgno.com/news/media/1116289322_controller.jpg

http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/article/614/614619/e3-2005-ps3-official-20050516044918778.jpg




If those don't work check out:this (http://media.ps3.ign.com/articles/614/614619/img_2786117.html)

Quoted from www.cgno.com



Kaz Hirai has taken the stage, beginning his speech with "190 million PS2s sold. 2 billion software sales" Hirai then began speaking about PlayStation 3... It features the CELL processor as previously reported, and also features a Blu-Ray Disk drive, running at 6x. Backwards compatibility with both PlayStation and PlayStation 2 games has also just been confirmed. Hirai also stated that PlayStation 3 runs at twice the speed of Xbox 360. The PlayStation 3 console is capable of reaching 10 Terraflops of processing information.

It's just been confirmed that the PS3 will have a detachable hard drive, six USB ports, a memory stick slot, and seven bluetooth wireless controllers.

PlayStation 3's hardware has gotten a little more detailed. The main CELL processor included will run at 3.2GHz, and feature 7 SPEs. The nVidia GPU will run at 700MHz, and there will be two 256MB RAM sticks included, for a total of 512MB. PS3 will have robust multimedia support, including: video chat, internet access, digital photo viewing, digital audio and video playback.

According to Hirai, PlayStation 3 (now confirmed as the official title, apparently) will feature dual HD outputs. The supplied controllers are wireless, as stated earlier and use Bluetooth as a connection. These last 24 hours on batteries. The PSP will be a major bonus for PS3 owners. You can have remote access to your PS3 from your PSP, and you can even use a Wi-Fi connection within PS3 to use your PSP as a controller for a PS3 game. PlayStation 3 also features a "built-in network cap".

A Getaway sequel has just been announced for PS3.

PlayStation 3's Blu-Ray Disk medium at 6x will feature 324Mb/sec data transfer rate. This will enable extremely fast load times.

Apparently, there will be a "PlayStation P2P Online Service", although just how this works is unclear as of right now.




They also claim: The nVidia-powered graphics are twice as powerful as a GeForce 6800 Ultra.

So far so good ;-)

[Vader]

No news on PSP to PS3 goodies?

[AoWolf]

Not yet you can keep your on the feed here: http://www.cgno.com/news_live.php?name=sony

[GFLPraxis]

Ha! I told the fanboys! I told them but they would not listen! (not on this board mind you)

Heh, sorry, this is a moment of triumph for me. The specs are impressive, thing is I've been arguing with someone who keeps saying the PS3 will have a 4.6 GHz Cell with 8 SPE's, and I kept telling him that was the specs for IBM's server version of the Cell. Nyah!!!! I'll have to post this on the other board... where's an evil smily when you need one... :D


lol, back on topic.

The NVidia GPU is nice, it sounds JUST like the G70
http://news.spong.com/detail/news.asp?prid=8696

Should be shown within the month. Before anyone says it sounds unrealistic, it's a new gen graphics card (like the jump from FX 5900 Ultra to 6800 Ultra, much more performance for the cost). I fully expect it to be that powerful. At least they're not hyping it.

The Cell processor sounds good.

512 MB of RAM; good.

Video chat, internet access, etc...same stuff as the XBox 360.


Detachable hard drive, six USB ports, and bluetooth. All good...except...
Who needs...SEVEN...controllers...on one system?

[blitzkrieg79]

Ummm, Cell running at 3.2 GHZ??? Last time i heard about Cell in a PS3 it was suppoded to run at 4GHZ (or maybe that was the highest frequency the CELL could reach at that time and had nothing to do with PS3 design?!?)

Anyway it seems as if all the processors comming out from IBM are definately not meting the previously predicted frequencies or is it just me? XBOX2 was supposed to be 3.5GHZ now its at 3.2... Mac was supposed to be at 3GHZ a year ago and is at 2.7GHZ now...

[dotdotdot]

Maybe IBM isnt doing it, Apple and Microsoft are...

AND PS3 I think was supposed to have a CELL @ 3.2 GHz...

[AoWolf]

ok more info


According to Hirai, PlayStation 3 (now confirmed as the official title, apparently) will feature dual HD outputs. The supplied controllers are wireless, as stated earlier and use Bluetooth as a connection. These last 24 hours on batteries. The PSP will be a major bonus for PS3 owners. You can have remote access to your PS3 from your PSP, and you can even use a Wi-Fi connection within PS3 to use your PSP as a controller for a PS3 game. PlayStation 3 also features a "built-in network cap".

So it looks like the PSP will work as a controller.

[AoWolf]

Detachable hard drive, six USB ports, and bluetooth. All good...except...
Who needs...SEVEN...controllers...on one system?

I think thats why it has two HD outputs so you can play on 2 TV's at once.

[quackattack]

I have been looking, but could not find any pictures. Did Sony give any signs of what the thing looks like?

Either way I am excited. The backward compatability will make this an easy choice when I'm looking into purchasing a next gen console.

[AoWolf]

I have been looking, but could not find any pictures. Did Sony give any signs of what the thing looks like?

Either way I am excited. The backward compatability will make this an easy choice when I'm looking into purchasing a next gen console.


Not yet the thing is still going on they say there will be a big surprise at the end.

[GFLPraxis]

Ummm, Cell running at 3.2 GHZ??? Last time i heard about Cell in a PS3 it was suppoded to run at 4GHZ (or maybe that was the highest frequency the CELL could reach at that time and had nothing to do with PS3 design?!?)

Anyway it seems as if all the processors comming out from IBM are definately not meting the previously predicted frequencies or is it just me? XBOX2 was supposed to be 3.5GHZ now its at 3.2... Mac was supposed to be at 3GHZ a year ago and is at 2.7GHZ now...

The 4 GHz one was in IBM servers, magazines with writers quick to jump the gun assumed that the IBM server Cell = the PS3 Cell and jumped the gun proclaiming it at 4 GHz and 9 cores.

[GFLPraxis]

IMAGES!
http://www.cgno.com/news/media/1116287194_ps31.jpg
http://www.cgno.com/news/media/1116287194_ps32.jpg

[quackattack]

IMAGES!

WOW! I am so excited. Thanks for posting them!! :D

[AoWolf]

IMAGES!
http://www.cgno.com/news/media/1116287194_ps31.jpg
http://www.cgno.com/news/media/1116287194_ps32.jpg


First thoughts ugly I am sure it will grow on me.

[GFLPraxis]

They just died. Mirrored on my server here:

http://gflpraxis.no-ip.com/ps3_1.jpg
http://gflpraxis.no-ip.com/ps3_2.jpg

[quackattack]

First thoughts ugly I am sure it will grow on me.

I like it, very sleak. Definately a change from the PS2.

[GFLPraxis]

Square Enix has just shown off a Final Fantasy VII tech demo for the PlayStation 3, but they did not announce a specific game for it. Yet.

--------------------------------------------------

A representative from Square Enix has taken the stage.

[supergod]

This is... beautiful. Simply put, I think this is the first time a videogame console has every gotten a stunning, mature design. This knocks Xbox way out of the water. Amazing.

[chameeeleon]

Much nicer than the XBox 360 design - looks like home theatre equipment and yet effortlessly sleek. And that looks like a slot-loading drive - nice! I hated the clunky side-out on the PS2
And I think the PS3 design team should win a "Best use of the Spider-man font outside of a movie poster or DVD case" award.

[quackattack]

.
And I think the PS3 design team should win a "Best use of the Spider-man font outside of a movie poster or DVD case" award.

LOL, wow you're totally right. I can see the cross promotion now ;)

[AoWolf]

This is... beautiful. Simply put, I think this is the first time a videogame console has every gotten a stunning, mature design. This knocks Xbox way out of the water. Amazing.


Yeah I mean other then halo why buy a 360 over this?

Lets see what nintendo will bring.

[GFLPraxis]

This is Nintendo vs Sony now for me.

After seeing this the XBox 360 isn't even on my consideration list anymore.

[Dagless]

i might get one, im a massive fan of the vintage PS1 games and im curious to see where the PS3 will go... but im finding it underwhelmingly dull so far. its just another 'computer-playing-games'

[AoWolf]

This is Nintendo vs Sony now for me.

After seeing this the XBox 360 isn't even on my consideration list anymore.


Yeah I mean this sucks for Microsoft I see a dream cast repeat on the horizon.

[GFLPraxis]

Yeah I mean this sucks for micro soft I see a dream cast repeat on the horizon.

As predicted here http://weblog.bbzzdd.com/archives/000834.html :D


Seriously, these numbers are sweet.

324 Mb/sec loading times for Blu-ray...
Thats 40.5 MB per second.

That means it can fill up the 512 MB of RAM in 12 seconds.

[buryyourbrideau]

this thing seriously smokes the 360

see ya microsoft, their only hope IMO is halo 3 :)

[Phat_Pat]

Thats amazing

[AoWolf]

I wonder what they are thinking in Redmond. :D

[chameeeleon]

I wonder what they are thinking in Redmond. :D

Probably something along the lines of "Oh s$!t!", followed by "Why didn't we think to use the Spider-man movie font on the console?"

[Daveway]

I think its sexy looking. :p It reminds me of a polished off Bose receiver.

The techs are definitely impressive and kinda knock XBox to the side.
ony also unveiled the PS3's graphics chip, the RSX "Reality Synthesizer based on Nvidia technology. The GPU will be capable of 128bit pixel precision, 1080p resolution, some of the highest HD resolution around. The RSX also has 512mb of graphics render memory and is capable of 100 billion shader operations and 51 billion dot products per second. It also has over 300 million transistors, larger than any processor available commercially today. It will be manufactured using the 90nm process with 8 layers of metal. The RSX is more powerful than two GeForce 6800 Ultra video cards, which would cost roughly $1000 total if bought today.
[edit] WTF?!?! Sony is still putting the power button the back!
http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2005/news/05/16/ps3_screen003.jpg

[AoWolf]

http://www.cgno.com/news/media/1116289322_controller.jpg

new controller

[quackattack]

http://www.cgno.com/news/media/1116289322_controller.jpg

new controller

With added feature... comes back to you when you throw it! :rolleyes:

[Laslo Panaflex]

Wow that controler looks stupid, I don't care what angle you look at it.

[buryyourbrideau]

looks super duper ILL haha

kinda looks like one of those 3rd party controllers that were released for ps1 and ps2 a while ago

anyone agree :confused:

[risc]

Devil May Cry 4 announced for the PS3 - BRING ON '06 I CAN'T WAIT!

This is some classy looking hardware, can't wait for tomorrow to see the Nintendo.

[chameeeleon]

Controller looks really wierd, but also looks like it would be very comfortable on the hands. The PS/PS2 controller fell way too short and was hard to grip. It looks like they made things a lot longer this time. And althought it does look boomerang-ish, I think in the flesh it might look a lot cooler. Will they have white and black ones to match the consoles?

[chameeeleon]

Devil May Cry 4 announced for the PS3 - BRING ON '06 I CAN'T WAIT!

This is some classy looking hardware, can't wait for tomorrow to see the Nintendo.

I didn't like DMC 2 or 3 very much at all, and it doesn't seem like a game that can really rival Halo 3 as far as franchise power. I bet Sony wished they could've announced Grand Theft Auto 6 as a PS3 exclusive for '06 instead.

*EDIT* Gamespot says Rockstar did confirm a GTA for the PS3.

[Phat_Pat]

Can't see the controller :confused:

edit: heres the back
http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2005/news/05/16/ps3_screen002.jpg

[dotdotdot]

Spiderman Font!

[risc]

I didn't like DMC 2 or 3 very much at all, and it doesn't seem like a game that can really rival Halo 3 as far as franchise power.

And I absolutely hate Halo so um yeah whatever, each to their own. I love DMC3 although 2 was a complete joke. Personally I can't wait to see more info about all 3 consoles the next few months are going to kill me, must resist temptation to buy a 360... if I can hold out until 06 it's all good, but I'm a compulsive buyer so we'll see.

[Symtex]

I happy to see all the rumors were definetly wrong. the Ps3 looks like it has more raw power then the X360. The only thing that I've notice in the hardware is they dedicated 256 ram for the video ard 256 ram for the system memory. I'm wondering what will be the outlook versus the 512 unified ram model.

Another thing I was wondering, it's going to be hard to stack anything on top of the Ps3. They also still put the Power Button in the back. It's one of my pet peeves for my Ps2.

Is it me or the Controller looks like a bad logitech rumble pack controller ?

I'm waiting for the Sony conference to be available for download and look at those real-time tech demo.

[keysersoze]

Can't see the controller :confused:
[/IMG]

Wireless. ch-ching.

[Macamus Prime]

Well, the rumblings for the PS3's power have been out since 6 months ago. Certain developers with loose lips have stated that the PS3 outperforms the 360. They have said that the 360 is no slouch, but the PS3 is far better.

360 has been pushed aside in my world - UNLESS some really awesome 360 games come out. At this point, its PS3 & Nintendo Revolution.

[Daveway]

Does anyone have the pic of the controller? CGNO.com is down.

[Symtex]

Well, the rumblings for the PS3's power have been out since 6 months ago. Certain developers with loose lips have stated that the PS3 outperforms the 360. They have said that the 360 is no slouch, but the PS3 is far better.

360 has been pushed aside in my world - UNLESS some really awesome 360 games come out. At this point, its PS3 & Nintendo Revolution.

I don't agree with you. If I remember correctly, the Ps2 spec showed a far superior CPU but Xbox was still more powerfull because of the Nvidia GPU. Now it's looks like Sony has learn from some of their mistake and the Cell sure looks great technicaly. They is some of the design choice that i'm not sure about and how it will translate for developper.

I though the ATI GPU with the 48 pipeline of unified shaders looked alot more impressive the the G70.

[Lancetx]

All I can say is wow. Sorry Redmond, but my next gen console will definitely be the Sony PS3. I can definitely wait a few extra months for this. :)

[Fukui]

I happy to see all the rumors were definetly wrong. the Ps3 looks like it has more raw power then the X360. The only thing that I've notice in the hardware is they dedicated 256 ram for the video ard 256 ram for the system memory. I'm wondering what will be the outlook versus the 512 unified ram model.

Well, 256MB running @ 3.2GHZ... I would say... better.

[angelneo]

This is getting really exciting. Now if only we can see some demo games on all these new consoles. The specs on PS3 really leave xbox360 in smokes, hopefully the games can speak for themselves.

[Phat_Pat]

Here is another Pic of the Controler. Also this (http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/05/16/news_6124681.html?gcst=2stream_sonypress_e305.asx) site has videos of some of the new games. Stunning.

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2005/news/05/16/ps3_screen008.jpg

[GFLPraxis]

I happy to see all the rumors were definetly wrong. the Ps3 looks like it has more raw power then the X360. The only thing that I've notice in the hardware is they dedicated 256 ram for the video ard 256 ram for the system memory. I'm wondering what will be the outlook versus the 512 unified ram model.

Another thing I was wondering, it's going to be hard to stack anything on top of the Ps3. They also still put the Power Button in the back. It's one of my pet peeves for my Ps2.

Is it me or the Controller looks like a bad logitech rumble pack controller ?

I'm waiting for the Sony conference to be available for download and look at those real-time tech demo.

I suspect that its going to be slightly better because with the Cell processor design you can have the memory with very quick access rates to the processor.

I'm waiting for the demo too :)

[ZildjianKX]

Let's hope the PS3 has a good online community like Xbox live... that seems to be one of the key features for the Xbox 360.

Interesting to note that both consoles have 2.5" hard drives, I'm sure that is to limit piracy in case people figure out how to run backups off them (limited drive size). Not to mention the PS3 uses blueray for the optical media for games.

I'm a bit excited that the PS3 has built in wifi (unlike the optional wifi for the 360) and you can actually link it up to the PSP.

I was thinking about building a gaming PC next year for the next UT game, but with all these new consoles coming out there is no point.

Another key feature that was listed was 1080p support (progressive!!!). That's amazing.

I just want to see the prices of the new systems... anyone know if the Spring launch is for the US or Japan? Or both?

[GFLPraxis]

Not just 1080p, DUAL 1080p.
I am now officially impressed :eek:

[angelneo]

Here is another Pic of the Controler. Also this (http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/05/16/news_6124681.html?gcst=2stream_sonypress_e305.asx) site has videos of some of the new games. Stunning.

Err... the controller looks like some prop off some cheesy sci-fi show....

[Phat_Pat]

Err... the controller looks like some prop off some cheesy sci-fi show....
Yeah the controller looks like crap.... but the game quality looks amazing.

[cr2sh]

You guys see the KILLZONE 2 video.... ****.

The Tekken 6 video... ****.

Muscles rippling under the skin, steam burning off the flesh.

****. Amazing.

[GFLPraxis]

Rear pics if anyone wants em.
http://home.btconnect.com/hgi/ps3/sony-playstation-3-2.jpg

[Vader]

Yeah, I agree that the controllers look ridiculous!

[Cheap-Chopstix]

The next gen console wars is heating up like a finger in a Wendy's chili bowl. I am quite blown away by Sony's specs... I thought MS was goin all out and dual video support ? Shazaaam! I wonder what Nintendo has in its pocket and hope they can surprize me even more.

And for all you fools goin PS3 is the roxors! or XBOX 360 is gonna rule the world and the maybe 1 or 2 of you out there saying Nintendo's Revolution will eat XBOX 360 and PS3 alive. Settle down it's only the beginning. We havent seen nothin but some tech demos and early game demos. Way too early to say shazbot about these consoles and their games. Paper means nothing in terms of what you see. Gamecube proved it could compete with the best of PS2 and XBOX in terms of graphical power ( gettin decent 3rd party games was another story ) and they were the ones who stated a lower polygon count. Remember kids ... It is all about the games. Not tech jargon that 95.652874225685 percent of you and me dont have a clue about. ok rant over.

[GFLPraxis]

I FOUND THE VIDEOS!

Here's the demos from the conference and a Killzone 2 video.

I watched the Killzone one and all I can say is WOWZA.

Still watching the tech demos but GT5 looks sweet :D Realistic damage, wheels flying off...w00t!
EDIT:
http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/action/killzone2/media.html

[AP_piano295]

[/QUOTE]Detachable hard drive, six USB ports, and bluetooth. All good...except...
Who needs...SEVEN...controllers...on one system?[/QUOTE]


hmm... think creative mebe the seven controllers could be used for certain types of teamwork pilot gunner ext. The point is if they provide the ability to use that number of controllers its just another outlet for gamers.

"build it and they will come"

[AP_piano295]

Anyone think microsoft may be forced to delay if the ps3 really outclasses the 360 at this level then gates has a problem...

[GFLPraxis]

WOW. WOW WOW WOW.

Okay the one I thought was Gran Turismo was not, GT5 was actually the last video.

Not sure on the damage front, but the graphics...the canyons...my gosh, the canyons...I thought it was a photograph... :eek:
Seriously, that was stunning. WATCH THE VIDEO!

[GFLPraxis]

Detachable hard drive, six USB ports, and bluetooth. All good...except...
Who needs...SEVEN...controllers...on one system?


hmm... think creative mebe the seven controllers could be used for certain types of teamwork pilot gunner ext. The point is if they provide the ability to use that number of controllers its just another outlet for gamers.

"build it and they will come"


Actually I figured it out. It can output to two screens. Get a PSP for player 8, and you've got eight players, two on each screen.

Anyone think microsoft may be forced to delay if the ps3 really outclasses the 360 at this level then gates has a problem...

Gates' problem is having to be the first one to release date, no matter what technology you have to ignore...

[Daveway]

What's the deal with cell? Is it a single processor or does it need to be networked with other celss to be powerful. :confused:

[GFLPraxis]

What's the deal with cell? Is it a single processor or does it need to be networked with other celss to be powerful. :confused:

It's a single processor (3.2 GHz PowerPC) with 7 SPE (secondary processors, designed for the SOLE purpose of certain types of floating point calculations).

As a result it is stunningly good in certain types of calculations, and sucks in everything else. Fortunately floating point is just what you want for physics :D

[debroglie]

I FOUND THE VIDEOS!

Here's the demos from the conference and a Killzone 2 video.

I watched the Killzone one and all I can say is WOWZA.

Still watching the tech demos but GT5 looks sweet :D Realistic damage, wheels flying off...w00t!

do you mind sharing...


where are these videos?

[angelneo]

I FOUND THE VIDEOS!

Here's the demos from the conference and a Killzone 2 video.

I watched the Killzone one and all I can say is WOWZA.

Still watching the tech demos but GT5 looks sweet :D Realistic damage, wheels flying off...w00t!
Haha... the videos look really amazing... for vision Gran turismo I couldn't even tell if it is in-game graphics or pre-rendered clip, it would be awesome if they were in-game graphics.

[Redneck1089]

It doesn't look as futuristic as the PS2...

[debroglie]

It doesn't look as futuristic as the PS2...


bah.... are you kidding me?!?!

[Daveway]

do you mind sharing...


where are these videos?

Clink (http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/05/16/news_6124681.html?gcst=2stream_sonypress_e305.asx)

[GFLPraxis]

CRAP!

I forgot to put the URL!

http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/action/killzone2/media.html

[clayj]

The Tekken 6 video... ****.

Muscles rippling under the skin, steam burning off the flesh.

****. Amazing.Cut scenes don't count... and the Tekken video was completely cut scenes. ("Cut scene" meaning that it's pre-rendered video.) The Gran Turismo and Killzone videos were MUCH more impressive to me.

Now where's the demo for WipeOut on the PS3? :) (Still buying a couple of Xbox 360's, though...)

[bluebomberman]

Can't tell the difference between 360 and PS3 besides exterior aesthetics. They both got wireless controllers, they both got online, they're both made for HDTV, they both got entertainment center capabilities, they're both backwards compatible with their previous iterations, they both got hard drives...

Aside from a few exclusive games on each side, I feel like I'm splitting hairs trying to choose between the two. Can someone make a case for either machine?

[Phat_Pat]

Can't tell the difference between 360 and PS3 besides exterior aesthetics. They both got wireless controllers, they both got online, they're both made for HDTV, they both got entertainment center capabilities, they're both backwards compatible with their previous iterations, they both got hard drives...

Aside from a few exclusive games on each side, I feel like I'm splitting hairs trying to choose between the two. Can someone make a case for either machine?
Ps3 has a graphics card twice as powerful as the 6000 Ultra. ;)

[bluebomberman]

Ps3 has a graphics card twice as powerful as the 6000 Ultra. ;)

You mean 6800 Ultra, right?

But again, so what? Judging from pics and videos, I couldn't tell you which console has better graphics. I couldn't tell you if the PS3 is marginally more powerful than Xbox or twice as powerful. In fact, Gamespot just posted an article spotlighting the multiplatform capabilities of the new Unreal engine. (http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/05/16/news_6124995.html)

[ravenvii]

Can't tell the difference between 360 and PS3 besides exterior aesthetics. They both got wireless controllers, they both got online, they're both made for HDTV, they both got entertainment center capabilities, they're both backwards compatible with their previous iterations, they both got hard drives...

Aside from a few exclusive games on each side, I feel like I'm splitting hairs trying to choose between the two. Can someone make a case for either machine?

We can all go ooh and ahh over the fancy specs, but in the ultimate end, it all comes down to the games.

Other link to a bunch of (mostly same) images. I notice alot of down/broken images, so it'd be nice to have them all in one non-down place :)

http://www.consolegold.com/screenshots/index.php?GameID=3756

[GFLPraxis]

Can't tell the difference between 360 and PS3 besides exterior aesthetics. They both got wireless controllers, they both got online, they're both made for HDTV, they both got entertainment center capabilities, they're both backwards compatible with their previous iterations, they both got hard drives...

Aside from a few exclusive games on each side, I feel like I'm splitting hairs trying to choose between the two. Can someone make a case for either machine?

Easily.

PS3's disks can literally fit 6 times more than the XBox 360's and load several times faster.

The PS3 supports 1080p while XBox 360 tops out at 1080i, PS3 supports TWO HDTV's, and Microsoft CHARGES for online play unlike Sony.
PS3 has more launch titles announced.

The XBox 360 is NOT backwards compatible. Only PS3 is.

The PS3 is more powerful. The PS3 has SD and CF card slots. The PS3 has Bluetooth. The PS3 (that we know of, no price mentioned yet and all features were free last time) has free video chat while Microsoft charges.

The PS3 supports recordable and rewritable format (I suspect MS does not because of piracy, but I dunno) so... :D
I want to install Linux on a DVD and boot it...

No question. Assuming similar price point, wait for the PS3. Absolutely.


However I HIGHLY recommend waiting till Nintendo reveals more on the Revolution before deciding.


It's down to PS3 vs Revolution for me.

[clayj]

Easily.

PS3's disks can literally fit 6 times more than the XBox 360's and load several times faster.

The PS3 supports 1080p while XBox 360 tops out at 1080i, PS3 supports TWO HDTV's, and Microsoft CHARGES for online play unlike Sony.Actually, not entirely true. Xbox Live for the Xbox 360 will support different levels of access, some free, some by subscription.

PS3 has more launch titles announced.Ooooh. Since neither has actually launched yet, let's please wait until they launch to analyze this.

The XBox 360 is NOT backwards compatible. Only PS3 is.Microsoft hasn't said that the Xbox 360 won't be backwards compatible. They just haven't confirmed it yet.

[Phat_Pat]

You mean 6800 Ultra, right?

Riiiiiight Sorry i wasn't thinking :p

[bluebomberman]

Easily.

PS3's disks can literally fit 6 times more than the XBox 360's and load several times faster.

The PS3 supports 1080p while XBox 360 tops out at 1080i, PS3 supports TWO HDTV's, and Microsoft CHARGES for online play unlike Sony.
PS3 has more launch titles announced.

The XBox 360 is NOT backwards compatible. Only PS3 is.

The PS3 is more powerful. The PS3 has SD and CF card slots. The PS3 has Bluetooth. The PS3 (that we know of, no price mentioned yet and all features were free last time) has free video chat while Microsoft charges.

The PS3 supports recordable and rewritable format (I suspect MS does not because of piracy, but I dunno) so... :D
I want to install Linux on a DVD and boot it...

No question. Assuming similar price point, wait for the PS3. Absolutely.


However I HIGHLY recommend waiting till Nintendo reveals more on the Revolution before deciding.


It's down to PS3 vs Revolution for me.

They just announced that Xbox 360 will be backwards compatible with select games (presumably the Halo games, for starters). http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/05/16/news_6124746.html

Also according to GameSpot, both machines support recordable and rewritable DVD formats.

So we're left with mostly minor differences: Xbox charges for online, but there's a free option now. Plus there's the (debatable) benefit of a unified online portal for the Xbox instead of the scattershot approach of the PS3. PS3 has different memory card slots. (Not terribly exciting.)

The 1080p vs. 1080i resolutions might become important, but it's too early for me to tell right now. Two HDTVs together is utterly ridiculous for most people.

One issue that concerns me: the massive space of BluRay discs and the extra processing power of the PS3 may not mean much in the end because cross-platform developers may be more concerned with getting their games to work well on all platforms instead of maximizing potential on systems with different capabilities. For instance, I'd be surprised if Madden 2006 looks that much better on the PS3 than on the Xbox 360.

[Redneck1089]

bah.... are you kidding me?!?!


Well it does; it looks like a normal dvd player. I know what it's capable of...I just think it looks a little bland (except for the controller).

[Macamus Prime]

I don't agree with you. If I remember correctly, the Ps2 spec showed a far superior CPU but Xbox was still more powerfull because of the Nvidia GPU. Now it's looks like Sony has learn from some of their mistake and the Cell sure looks great technicaly. They is some of the design choice that i'm not sure about and how it will translate for developper.

I though the ATI GPU with the 48 pipeline of unified shaders looked alot more impressive the the G70.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/05/16/news_6124681.html?q=1

Sony also unveiled the PS3's graphics chip, the RSX "Reality Synthesizer," which is based on Nvidia technology. The GPU will be capable of 128bit pixel precision, 1080p resolution, some of the highest HD resolution around. The RSX also has 512MB of graphics render memory and is capable of 100 billion shader operations and 51 billion dot products per second. It also has more than 300 million transistors, larger than any processor commercially available today. It will be manufactured using the 90nm process, with eight layers of metal. The RSX is more powerful than two GeForce 6800 Ultra video cards, which would cost roughly $1,000 total if purchased today.

:eek:

[Phat_Pat]

Hopefully a PS3 will be under $1000 dollars :rolleyes:

[GFLPraxis]

Actually, not entirely true. Xbox Live for the Xbox 360 will support different levels of access, some free, some by subscription.



The free version only allows online play on the weekends.


Ooooh. Since neither has actually launched yet, let's please wait until they launch to analyze this.


True but they announced more :p


Microsoft hasn't said that the Xbox 360 won't be backwards compatible. They just haven't confirmed it yet.

They refuse to comment on it.

The general concensus is that it's practically impossible. Even G4TechTV agrees.

Not only is there the hard drive problem (where not all XBox 360's include the hard drive)...

There's the processor problem (x86 binaries will not run on a PowerPC system, and emulation is unlikely given the design of it), the threading problem (XBox games are single threaded, XBox 360 needs multithreaded to actually get full performance, otherwise it can only use one processor and only one of the hardware threads), and the graphics card problem (developers use NVidia specific programming calls or something for XBox 1 games to optimize it. ATi cards don't have this. Short of Microsoft paying licensing fees to NVidia, goodbye all hope of backwards compatability).

Backwards compatability is nearly impossible short of including most of the original hardware in the box.

[clayj]

Hopefully a PS3 will be under $1000 dollars :rolleyes:Yeah, I'm really curious to know what the pricing will be like on this (as well as on the Xbox 360), and how much $$$ Sony will lose on each PS3.

[clayj]

They refuse to comment on it.

The general concensus is that it's practically impossible. Even G4TechTV agrees.Well, between when I posted that and now, it's confirmed: The Xbox 360 will be backwards-compatible with the Xbox.

So so much for that. ;) (And you should know better than to believe anything you hear on G4BlechTV.)

[Phat_Pat]

The free version only allows online play on the weekends.

True but i feel as though this is a great deal. I never have time to play during the weekdays so it wouldn't truly effect me.

Although If you already have an Xbox Live account it will transfer over to become a gold accout. Nice. :cool:

[GFLPraxis]

nm

[GFLPraxis]

They just announced that Xbox 360 will be backwards compatible with select games (presumably the Halo games, for starters). http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/05/16/news_6124746.html

Also according to GameSpot, both machines support recordable and rewritable DVD formats.

So we're left with mostly minor differences: Xbox charges for online, but there's a free option now. Plus there's the (debatable) benefit of a unified online portal for the Xbox instead of the scattershot approach of the PS3. PS3 has different memory card slots. (Not terribly exciting.)

The 1080p vs. 1080i resolutions might become important, but it's too early for me to tell right now. Two HDTVs together is utterly ridiculous for most people.

One issue that concerns me: the massive space of BluRay discs and the extra processing power of the PS3 may not mean much in the end because cross-platform developers may be more concerned with getting their games to work well on all platforms instead of maximizing potential on systems with different capabilities. For instance, I'd be surprised if Madden 2006 looks that much better on the PS3 than on the Xbox 360.


Link ain't loading. I've got to see this. I've read multiple hardware sites agreeing its impossible.

[GFLPraxis]

Okay, got it.

However, Microsoft would only say that the console will be "backward-compatible with top-selling Xbox games."

The rumor/leak that was going around last month was that the hard drive would come with Halo 2 with some upgrades pre-installed. I suspect that is what Microsoft is doing, re-releasing the best XBox games.
Same thing as Super Mario All-Stars for the SNES.

"top XBox games" means it can't play normal XBox games to me.

[clayj]

Okay, got it.

The rumor/leak that was going around last month was that the hard drive would come with Halo 2 with some upgrades pre-installed. I suspect that is what Microsoft is doing, re-releasing the best XBox games.
Same thing as Super Mario All-Stars for the SNES.

"top XBox games" means it can't play normal XBox games to me.It seems more to me (as the article indicates) that they are covering their ass by not promising that ALL Xbox games will run on the 360. If they underpromise and overdeliver, that's good; if they overpromise and underdeliver, that's really bad.

[GFLPraxis]

Yeah, so backwards compatability is still undecided...
Perhaps they're going to attempt emulation but figure the games that fully use the XBox processor will lag terribly?

[PixelFactory]

top XBox games" means it can't play normal XBox games to me.

Sounds to me like they are making sure that their emulator works for the top games (Halo, KOTOR) but may or may not work for other games (insert poor selling game here). Best to play it safe, the PS2 can't play all PS1 games.

[PixelFactory]

Yeah, so backwards compatability is still undecided...
Perhaps they're going to attempt emulation but figure the games that fully use the XBox processor will lag terribly?

I would consider Halo 2 a top game and pretty processor intensive. Also a must have for backwards compatibility.

[GFLPraxis]

Well according to Spong Halo 2 is preinstalled on the hard drive as a bonus if you buy one. Could be false though.

[ReanimationLP]

Square Enix has just shown off a Final Fantasy VII tech demo for the PlayStation 3, but they did not announce a specific game for it. Yet.

--------------------------------------------------

A representative from Square Enix has taken the stage.

I ALMOST DIED WHEN I SAW THIS. It was beautifully done, and thats the in-game graphics of the PS3 done in real time. X.X The PS3 has my money if they redo Final Fantasy VII. You also should watch the trailer for the Final Fantasy VII movie, Advent Children, which lands on September 13th, a full day ahead of Japan. :D

[angelneo]

I ALMOST DIED WHEN I SAW THIS. It was beautifully done, and thats the in-game graphics of the PS3 done in real time. X.X The PS3 has my money if they redo Final Fantasy VII. You also should watch the trailer for the Final Fantasy VII movie, Advent Children, which lands on September 13th, a full day ahead of Japan. :D
Do you have any links/screenshots for this? On a slightly different note, I wasn't sure if they are still releasing the ever-popular final fantasy on PS3.

[jiggie2g]

ok boys and Girls this stuff is all fine and dandy. The PS3 is close to 2X more powerful then the Xbox 360 but you are going to have to pay for that power.

Take alook at the components

Cell Chip
XDR Ram: god knows how much thse thing cost 2 make

RSX GPU: (Nvidia Geforce 7xxx based) ...this thing has to cost atleast $500 when it will be sold in the fall on Video Boards. No way is this the GPU for a $299 Console.

Blu-Ray: thses are expected to hit market any where from $200-300 per drive for PC's next year..again do not expect this in a $299 console.

2X HDMI ...I dare anyone frind a HDTV on the market that has 2 HDMI ports , or how many highend recievers(maybe 5 total) with dual HDMI.

I Expect this thing to cost Atleast $449...as it would make little sense to seel it at $299 next to Sony's $249 PSP ...plus the Hit would be to great to sell at $299. On average conslemaker usually lose about $100-200 per console , if this were sold at $299 it would be like $400-500 loss per unit.

[Lacero]

The New York Times today reports “the increased sharpness, widescreen format and Dolby Digital Surround Sound, while secondary features of the new [PS3 and Xbox 360] platforms, ‘will be a boon for TV manufacturers’ looking to sell high-definition televisions, said Michael Goodman, senior analyst with the Yankee Group, a research firm."

[x86isslow]

ok boys and Girls this stuff is all fine and dandy. The PS3 is close to 2X more powerful then the Xbox 360 but you are going to have to pay for that power.

Take alook at the components

Cell Chip
XDR Ram: god knows how much thse thing cost 2 make

RSX GPU: (Nvidia Geforce 7xxx based) ...this thing has to cost atleast $500 when it will be sold in the fall on Video Boards. No way is this the GPU for a $299 Console.

Blu-Ray: thses are expected to hit market any where from $200-300 per drive for PC's next year..again do not expect this in a $299 console.

2X HDMI ...I dare anyone frind a HDTV on the market that has 2 HDMI ports , or how many highend recievers(maybe 5 total) with dual HDMI.

I Expect this thing to cost Atleast $449...as it would make little sense to seel it at $299 next to Sony's $249 PSP ...plus the Hit would be to great to sell at $299. On average conslemaker usually lose about $100-200 per console , if this were sold at $299 it would be like $400-500 loss per unit.


However, keep in mind that this is coming out mid-late next year. Prices for these components will probably drop enough for this to be more palatable to Sony and to the consumer.

[edesignuk]

Amazing, the xbox 360 seemed extreme, but it's just been blown out of the water.

[jiggie2g]

However, keep in mind that this is coming out mid-late next year. Prices for these components will probably drop enough for this to be more palatable to Sony and to the consumer.


How you figure , Blu-Ray isn't expected till spring '06...i seriously doubt prices per drive are gonna hit rock bottom in 6 months maybe $250-$199 down from $300. that Video Card is still gonna be around the $350 mark also by then. so I don't see where the big price reduction would come from. This system is gonna gonna sell for $299 it's just not possible it's too far ahead of anything ...I say at the very least $399 if Sony is willing to take a huge hit per console.

[Platform]

I know that the GPU will be amazing, but the CPU have heard that it is very powerful...but how powerful compared to a G5....will the G5 be a G3 when the Cell comes out or :confused:

[cheekyspanky]

Well I like the style of the console, not fussed on the controller at all though.

As someone mentioned before these consoles are almost the same, with the main difference being that the PS3 is a little more powerful and the Xbox 360 has a better online presence.

I don't own a PS2 so even if the Xbox 360 wasn't backwards compatible - whichever console I buy I wouldn't have any current games to play on it!

I wonder what the Nintendo rival will be like now - if it's more powerful than the PS3 will Nintendo finally have a chance of making a bit of a comeback?!

[Lemming]

jiggie2g, consumer prices don't necessarily reflect the cost to manufacture, and companies usually give discounts when purchasing an item in bulk.

[Bubbasteve]

Well I don't know, initially I really wanted just the 360 (basically because of Halo 3) but with the PS3 and the specs on that then I just don't know. I'm going to take it that the PS3's graphics will be better than the 360's ( I mean go to gamespot.com and findthe Gran Turismo 5 movie and tell me that that isn't the best graphically looking game you've ever seen).... if their HD is like the HD in the current Xbox then I might have to get the PS3 but if it's like the current HD for the PS2 then I'm not too sure..... oh man both systems have their own pro's and con's!!!! AAAAAH ... I guess it will all come down to is the price of each system.

[Lacero]

How the heck are they able to offer a GPU that's more than twice as powerful as the GE6800 but not charge over $600 for the chip? Which brings me to the question, of how they are able to charge so much for a GE6800 video card when the one in the PS3 has over 300 million transistors. That's a crazy amount. How long before the PS4 contains over 1 billion transistors?

[cr2sh]

Cut scenes don't count... and the Tekken video was completely cut scenes. ("Cut scene" meaning that it's pre-rendered video.)

After reading what the Tekken developers said about the goals for tekken 6, I took the video as representing those goals. And sure, it may be prerendered... but in context of the other videos we're seeing, its really not that far out.

[xli_ne]

That new controller looks pretty weird though. O well, I'll probably still buy one. :D

[xli_ne]

From cnn.com...

"The PS3 will be fully "backward compatible," playing all existing PlayStation and PlayStation 2 games"

Thats all I need to know.

[grapes911]

All good...except...
Who needs...SEVEN...controllers...on one system?[/QUOTE]

I'm a little upset about this. We play 4-4 in madden and nhl with 8 Controllers.

[debroglie]

From cnn.com...

"The PS3 will be fully "backward compatible," playing all existing PlayStation and PlayStation 2 games"

Thats all I need to know.


Thats what I thought at first, but now I have a PS2 and do I want to play all of my old PS1 games with it? Heck no! Give me current rev. games - that's what it is designed for!

At any rate, I think I'll be buying nintendo this time around... I can't wait to find out more details tonight.

[debroglie]

All good...except...
Who needs...SEVEN...controllers...on one system?

I'm a little upset about this. We play 4-4 in madden and nhl with 8 Controllers.[/QUOTE]

Does this have something to do with the number of bluetooth channels? If you have a bluetooth mouse taking up one channel nearby, will you only be able to use 6 controllers? I don't know why, but I'm not happy with their choice to use bluetooth.

More directly though, if you have a PSP you will (speculative) be able to play with 8 players.

[xli_ne]

Thats what I thought at first, but now I have a PS2 and do I want to play all of my old PS1 games with it? Heck no! Give me current rev. games - that's what it is designed for!

At any rate, I think I'll be buying nintendo this time around... I can't wait to find out more details tonight.

Thats very true. But its nice to know if I want to pop in final fantasy 7 two years from now, I dont have to dust off my ps1 or ps2 to play it.

[csubear]

All these next gen gaming consoles specs seem like vaporware. I don't think any of these systems will see the light of day with the specs that are being listed pre-E3.

The thing that tiped me of was 256MB ram running at 3.2 ghz! That simply can not be true. So you know how much that much ram-running at that speed costs? I mean, when you double the L2 cache on a processor to say 1 or 2MB you add double the price. This stuff has to be SRAM, there is no way you could get DRAM running that fast. They have 533 DDR3 right, but thats about it.


Well, anyways, I'll belive it when the box ships.

[1macker1]

Sign me up for a Xbox360. As far as being backwards compatible...that's not a issue with me.

[MrSugar]

All these next gen gaming consoles specs seem like vaporware. I don't think any of these systems will see the light of day with the specs that are being listed pre-E3.

The thing that tiped me of was 256MB ram running at 3.2 ghz! That simply can not be true. So you know how much that much ram-running at that speed costs? I mean, when you double the L2 cache on a processor to say 1 or 2MB you add double the price. This stuff has to be SRAM, there is no way you could get DRAM running that fast. They have 533 DDR3 right, but thats about it.


Well, anyways, I'll belive it when the box ships.

It is true. Read up on it from many sites. Sony held a conference and announced the details themselves.

The fact is, Microsoft just got dropped, hardcore. The xbox360 is done before it ever had a chance.

[Platform]

All these next gen gaming consoles specs seem like vaporware. I don't think any of these systems will see the light of day with the specs that are being listed pre-E3.

The thing that tiped me of was 256MB ram running at 3.2 ghz! That simply can not be true. So you know how much that much ram-running at that speed costs? I mean, when you double the L2 cache on a processor to say 1 or 2MB you add double the price. This stuff has to be SRAM, there is no way you could get DRAM running that fast. They have 533 DDR3 right, but thats about it.


Well, anyways, I'll belive it when the box ships.

Well there is GDDR3 at over 1Ghz or 1000Mhz :rolleyes:

[calyxman]

I think the key here is making money off of this console. No doubt Sony will probably lose more money than MSFT, but I bet the company is relying on the depth of its user base to make up for their shortfall.

But then again, maybe Microsoft sees it differently, maybe they're trying to push Sony to the point of being tapped out financially. I mean when it comes to having resources to build a new game console, I'd say Microsoft>Sony>Nintendo.

At any rate, these next gen consoles are winding up as very ineresting indeed.

BTW, the last few generations went from 16-bit to 32-bit to 64-bit and now 128-bit. What are these systems considered, 256-bit? :p

[Symtex]

There is no doubt that on paper the PS3 is more powerfull then X360. Anyone who denies that is blinded. I've been knowned for cheering for X360 but I have to admint i'm impress with Sony's hardware.

It looks like once again I will own more then one console this generation. I will get my online craving with Xbox live and my blu-ray HD movie on Ps3. You have to admit that most techies like me wants the Blue-Ray DVD player then the game itself. I didn't buy a HDTV for nothing. I want to use it to it's maximum capabilities.

As far as revolution, the rumors are saying the Revolution is only 2 or 3 times faster then the gamecube. I think this will hurt Nintendo big time in the casual market. The first thing casual gamers notice are the visual, the gameplay comes afterward. Nintendo have choosen "possibilities" and "creativity" and Sony have choosen "Raw power". It's funny how the handheld market is a clear indication of Sony and Nintendo intention.

PSP vs DS all over again.

[GFLPraxis]

It seems more to me (as the article indicates) that they are covering their ass by not promising that ALL Xbox games will run on the 360. If they underpromise and overdeliver, that's good; if they overpromise and underdeliver, that's really bad.

Someone on another board said this:

At the very least Microsoft can just recompile the "top selling xbox games" and then dump the executable code onto the harddisk and have the OS detect when you put in a xbox DVD and load the code off the harddisk instead of the actual DVD.

And since Live connectivity is free, they can ship updated copies of the game's code when ever they feel like it and have it picked up.

That doesnt require any tricky software or hardware emulation nor does it require licensing the patents which NVidia hold on the GPU algos the xbox used.

NVidia was not happy with the deal with Microsoft over the xbox. And NVidia holds key patents over the algos used to implement a number of features in the xbox GPU core.

[0s and 1s]

Does anyone know if we would be able to upgrade the 512mb RAM on either machine? (Not sure if Revolution has the same amount of RAM)

[GFLPraxis]

Does anyone know if we would be able to upgrade the 512mb RAM on either machine? (Not sure if Revolution has the same amount of RAM)

We don't know on the Rev but so far they all have 512 MB.

[GFLPraxis]

There is no doubt that on paper the PS3 is more powerfull then X360. Anyone who denies that is blinded. I've been knowned for cheering for X360 but I have to admint i'm impress with Sony's hardware.

It looks like once again I will own more then one console this generation. I will get my online craving with Xbox live and my blu-ray HD movie on Ps3. You have to admit that most techies like me wants the Blue-Ray DVD player then the game itself. I didn't buy a HDTV for nothing. I want to use it to it's maximum capabilities.

As far as revolution, the rumors are saying the Revolution is only 2 or 3 times faster then the gamecube. I think this will hurt Nintendo big time in the casual market. The first thing casual gamers notice are the visual, the gameplay comes afterward. Nintendo have choosen "possibilities" and "creativity" and Sony have choosen "Raw power". It's funny how the handheld market is a clear indication of Sony and Nintendo intention.

PSP vs DS all over again.

Ya never believer the rumors before they went against Nintendo ;)

Anyway, we'll see in an hour. Though one thing to remember is that Sony and Microsoft usually exaggurate with maximum theoretical numbers.

[Abulia]

There is no doubt that on paper the PS3 is more powerfull then X360. Anyone who denies that is blinded. I've been knowned for cheering for X360 but I have to admint i'm impress with Sony's hardware.

It looks like once again I will own more then one console this generation. I will get my online craving with Xbox live and my blu-ray HD movie on Ps3. You have to admit that most techies like me wants the Blue-Ray DVD player then the game itself. I didn't buy a HDTV for nothing. I want to use it to it's maximum capabilities.Easier to just quote your text and sign my name to it...I agree entirely. :)

I'm not opposed to making space on my HT rack for two game systems.

Gah. 1080p? When'd that happen? Oh well, should have known I'd only get 3 years out of my $5K television! :D

[Gimzotoy]

As someone mentioned before these consoles are almost the same, with the main difference being that the PS3 is a little more powerful

That's a pretty big understatement, yeah? 3 cores << 7 cores (8 if you count the redundant one, which is pretty neat by the way).

And the RAM spec isn't all that far out there, as another poster mentioned. Rambus holds some key technology patents in high clock rate memory, and I'm sure that's why Sony went with them for the PS3.

I am a bit curious on the 7 controllers, as others have mentioned. I wonder if they ran into some sort of saturation problem with 8 going, cause 8 would seem like the natural target. There must be some sort of physical limitation there.

Technologically, the PS3 looks to be about the most amazing machine I've ever heard of. The Cell looks looks like a amazing chip. Wanna hire me IBM?

(As a note, I design Microprocessors and Memory for a living. Games really matter little to me, but the consoles always have the coolest technology when they come out.)

[ArcaneDevice]

to be honest I wasn't that impressed with the PS3 ... until I saw the Unreal 3 demo running in real time. When they zoomed on a supposed cinematic and started revolving around the in-air sparks I was fairly impressed. however that may say more about the Unreal 3 engine than the power of the PS3.

Dual HD output is pretty cool. Driving dual HDTVs is quite impressive considering what it takes to fire up a 30 inch Apple monitor.

As far as design. It looks like a lever-arch folder. It's sleek, but a bit dull.

As far as 360 goes. The specs are too close to really set them apart. The MS online strategy could really make the difference here. Sony are not known for creating a solid online community outside of Everquest and the amount of people who buy a 360 for Christmas and have online friends setup by PS3 launch will probably make the difference. Graphics alone will not make that much difference, why do you think people are still playing the PS2?

The other thing to consider, is that by the time of the PS3 release the 360 developers should be hitting their gaming stride and finally making the use of the new specs. The 360 games so far are a bit underwhelming.

It's a pretty close race. If Sony aren't blowing smoke about their online plans and they manage to release it very early 2006 they may still maintain their lead. Otherwise I think it's going to rely purely on who gets the biggest buzz game over the next year.


Assuming of course that the PS3 isn't twice the price of the 360! :rolleyes:

[saunders45]

2 Teraflops my ass. I'd believe that the day there is peace in the Middle East.
But, it all comes down to games, like FF, which is on the 360. ;)

But as most here are Sony fanboys, just because of their Lemming like bias against Microsoft, I'll be flamed. But who cares. Give me a Nintendo and Microsoft anyday over Sony and their crap hardware, software, and customer service.

[cheekyspanky]

As Mac fans aren't we supposed to look beyond immediate speed figures?

Show me some games and how these things run!

:p

[Gimzotoy]

2 Teraflops my ass. I'd believe that the day there is peace in the Middle East.

And yet you probably believe the 360 can achieve 1 Teraflop with 3 cores running at the same 3.2 GHz. Sure. :rolleyes:

And sure, power isn't everything... but look at how much better the graphics on the current XBox's 733MHz Celeron than the PS2's 300MHz chip. As graphics get better, more and more emphasis is going to be placed on in-game physics and control, and the best physics engines are multithreaded. The more simultaneous threads, the better the engine can be. That is where the PS3 will have the advantage, and Sony knows it. That's why they're downplaying the upper HDTV resolution support.

If the Cell has a sophisticated optimizing compiler, or the DevKit makes it easy to parallelize, in the power department there is no contest between the 360 and the PS3. Of course, none of that matters without the right games. There's rumors going around that the next Grand Theft Auto is the PS3's main launch title, and I'd be inclined to believe that. If that's true, I'm sure they paid Rockstar a mint to ensure it. I'm curious to see what Nintendo has up their sleeves.

[Uma888]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v352/uma888/homerdrrol.bmp

[gtree10]

Isn't it 7 WIRELESS controllers. I haven't seen specs on how many wired controllers you can have connected.

[saunders45]

And yet you probably believe the 360 can achieve 1 Teraflop with 3 cores running at the same 3.2 GHz. Sure. :rolleyes:


No way. Both companies are doing the usuall E3 "Mine is bigger than yours" thing. Its just that, WTF man, if in some way the PS3 can really do that, well it'll be $1000, or Dell, Intel, and AMD are goin out of business. Personally I smell B.S. both ways.

[Gimzotoy]

No way. Both companies are doing the usuall E3 "Mine is bigger than yours" thing. Its just that, WTF man, if in some way the PS3 can really do that, well it'll be $1000, or Dell, Intel, and AMD are goin out of business. Personally I smell B.S. both ways.

That's what I meant. Neither machine is going to live up to their theoretical specs. Though here we have a case where the PS3's theoreticals are twice that of the 360's. That's a big problem for Microsoft being the first console released. Hardly anyone (except me ;) , though I got a deal ) bought a DreamCast because they, arguably, knew a more-powerful Playstation was on the way. Microsoft's in the same position this time around.

Most would point to the DreamCast's lack of a DVD drive as killing the console. History could easily repeat itself if BlueRay is chosen as the HDDVD standard. What's most interesting is the sheer amount of space available on Sony's media, and the lack of space on Microsoft's. What will they do when the games get more complex? Hell, RalliSport 2 already consumes about 8GB. That could be a real limiting factor for the console, as many users won't appreciate having to download the rest of their game off of live (because that's what it will come to, I'd bet on it).

[calyxman]

Most would point to the DreamCast's lack of a DVD drive as killing the console. History could easily repeat itself if BlueRay is chosen as the HDDVD standard. What's most interesting is the sheer amount of space available on Sony's media, and the lack of space on Microsoft's. What will they do when the games get more complex? Hell, RalliSport 2 already consumes about 8GB. That could be a real limiting factor for the console, as many users won't appreciate having to download the rest of their game off of live (because that's what it will come to, I'd bet on it).

I think the Dreamcast and Saturn were killed because of the lackluster game library. It's a shame because Sega is a great company and had an awesome marketing campaign when the Genesis was king.

[ArcaneDevice]

That's what I meant. Neither machine is going to live up to their theoretical specs. Though here we have a case where the PS3's theoreticals are twice that of the 360's. That's a big problem for Microsoft being the first console released. Hardly anyone (except me ;) , though I got a deal ) bought a DreamCast because they, arguably, knew a more-powerful Playstation was on the way. Microsoft's in the same position this time around.

which is exactly the reverse of the Xbox/PS2 situation. Being early has the advantage of building momentum. If the better specs always won the Xbox would have overtaken the PS2 long ago. PS2 held it's market share based on an established user base and one or two killer games. The Dreamcast didn't fail purely on one console alone. Sega was running into problems long before that.

The playing field is virtually level this time around as both consoles have fans and haven't screwed up significantly yet. The price and marketing plan will be a big factor here.

If there is one indication of how each consoles specs may change it's how the Blu-Ray/HD-DVD debate ends. If it's a compromise then the format will change, if they go their separate way then predicitions indicate that DVD players will have hybrid playback to accomodate both formats.

[Savage Henry]

MS has known for a while that spec for spec the PS3 has got it won, hence the pre-emptive promo-publicity strike on nuMbTV. And about a month before the PS3 is released the 360 price will be set $50 lower. If I had to choose, it would be PS2 ... I'm bored with Halo.

On the abstract note, if that's the kind a processing speeds they are working on now for gaming, my next iMac in 3 years time is looking pretty sweet.

[saunders45]

Hardly anyone (except me ;) , though I got a deal ) bought a DreamCast because they, arguably, knew a more-powerful Playstation was on the way. Microsoft's in the same position this time around.


Yes and no. Look at how many bought the PS2 when it came out. Why? Initially, most didn't think the "New Kid" Xbox was gonna last, and look at what the Xbox has become. And yes, as sweet as the DreamCast was, it didn't have much going for it for a while, although it's launch titles were certainly better than the PS2's (2 year old UT and Silent Scope??? come on :( ). I think that it's going to be a lot closer this time around. MOST people won't be able to tell the difference in graphics, and the tech features we drool about. The real question is what will the devs do with this hardware. I for one am very interested. :rolleyes:

[JRM PowerPod]

I will be buying the PS3 the second it is available for sale. It sounds awesome

To be perfectly honest i would still prefer my PS2 over the Dell Optiplex that Microsoft released. The reason being that you buy a console for the games. And I love my Gran Turismo. It is a game which will make me forever loyal to the Playstation as long as it keeps getting made.
They both have cosmetic design worries, but especially the 360, you'd think they could make it look a tad better.

Sony will win the battle, but Microsoft will never give up.

[Gimzotoy]

It's definately going to be interesting. This generation seems to be really similar to the last generation's launch, so I'm curious to see how it goes down. I just really think the plain old DVD9s aren't going to be big enough for HD-mandated content when games for the current system are using up the whole DVD already.

At the same time I'm a little worried for Nintendo. Sega got kicked out last round, and it would be a shame if we had to say goodbye to Nintendo this time. It sounds like they know they need a killer feature to stay competitive... I'm anxious to find out what that "revolution" will be.

[Fabio_gsilva]

PS 3 is the very best gamming machine ever!!! Come on, guys, Xbox 360 is far better than Xbox "1", but PS 3 is twice powerful than X360!!! It's a huge difference!

I'll definitely buy mine as fast as they launch, and of course, I'll be waiting anxioulys for Playstation 4 five years from now!! :D

And those who are not very impressed about PS 3 specs must have some monstruos devil beast device for gamming undercover at home... :eek:

i'm worried about the blue ray... i think that this tecnology will eliminate all possibilities of finding some "black market games" providers... Well, this is the price we all will pay for tecnology! :p

Huges!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Lord Vader?

- Yes, Master!

- Rise!!!!

[BKKloppenborg]

damn OMG its so nice... I gotta get one of those! damn makes me think of the price its going to be when it comes out.. O well i always wait until the price drops anyways.. I am NOT getting a Xbox pos mine gets ALOT of disk errors and overheats alot just because i play an hour or two...

[saunders45]

PS 3 is the very best gamming machine ever!!! Come on, guys, Xbox 360 is far better than Xbox "1", but PS 3 is twice powerful than X360!!! It's a huge difference!

I'll definitely buy mine as fast as they launch, and of course, I'll be waiting anxioulys for Playstation 4 five years from now!! :D

And those who are not very impressed about PS 3 specs must have some monstruos devil beast device for gamming undercover at home... :eek:

i'm worried about the blue ray... i think that this tecnology will eliminate all possibilities of finding some "black market games" providers... Well, this is the price we all will pay for tecnology! :p

Huges!


Umm... yeah... whatever. I smell a n00b fanboy. Go play MGS2 and drink your coke.

[ArcaneDevice]

At the same time I'm a little worried for Nintendo. Sega got kicked out last round, and it would be a shame if we had to say goodbye to Nintendo this time. It sounds like they know they need a killer feature to stay competitive... I'm anxious to find out what that "revolution" will be.

given what Nintendo are talking about at the moment it sounds like they have nothing competitive. The console looks cool (the best one in my opinion) but they have no specs available apart from 512MB of Flash memory and Wi-Fi capability. Everything "will remain a mystery" and it will look really good according to the PR guy. Using IBM and ATI technology.

The other neat thing is that it will play any Nintendo console game ever released. How I don't know, since it only has slot loading drive, but that's what he said. Now that's backwards compatibility.

No details on the controllers yet. But it sounds like they are trying to make up for the lack of flashy tech by throwing all it's gaming franchises at it.

Oh yeah, the logo really sucks.

they also released an Ipod mini sized Gameboy. Do they really need another?

[iKwick7]

ugliest. controller. EVER.

[Fabio_gsilva]

Umm... yeah... whatever. I smell a n00b fanboy. Go play MGS2 and drink your coke.

Coke... MGS2... Yeah, that is really a good idea!!! He he!

Go to bed, Grampa!

[Gimzotoy]

given what Nintendo are talking about at the moment it sounds like they have nothing competitive. The console looks cool (the best one in my opinion) but they have no specs available apart from 512MB of Flash memory and Wi-Fi capability. Everything "will remain a mystery" and it will look really good according to the PR guy. Using IBM and ATI technology.

The other neat thing is that it will play any Nintendo console game ever released. How I don't know, since it only has slot loading drive, but that's what he said. Now that's backwards compatibility.

No details on the controllers yet. But it sounds like they are trying to make up for the lack of flashy tech by throwing all it's gaming franchises at it.

Oh yeah, the logo really sucks.

they also released an Ipod mini sized Gameboy. Do they really need another?

Do you have a source for this? That's the first I've heard of any actual useful information about the console. Hell, if it could play any Nintendo game ever made, I'd consider getting one. That's all I use my XBox for nowadays anyway.

[saunders45]

Coke... MGS2... Yeah, that is really a good idea!!! He he!

Go to bed, Grampa!

First, its spelled "Grandpa", and second MGS2 sucks.

[saunders45]

Revolution details from the press conference.

- WiFi controllers and a 'very unique' controller to be introduced later
- WiFi games with Nintendo characters
-"strong 3rd party support"
- square enix working on wifi final fantasy crystal chronicles
- game development is claimed to be a breeze
- disc drive accepts gamecube games but system is backward compat w/ all past nintendo games via downloads
- unique way to combine internet, controlling, flashmemory to combine a unique game experience. keeps hinting towards "all-access"
- 2006 console

[ArcaneDevice]

Do you have a source for this? That's the first I've heard of any actual useful information about the console. Hell, if it could play any Nintendo game ever made, I'd consider getting one. That's all I use my XBox for nowadays anyway.

yep I was watching the press conference broadcasting on Gamespot. I wasn't paying close attention but that's basically what he said. It was amazing how small the stage was compared to the Sony press conference. It was like watching a really famous band playing at your local club.

[csubear]

Well there is GDDR3 at over 1Ghz or 1000Mhz :rolleyes:


Yes but how much is that going to cost? And that still not 3.2 Ghz. Look at how much a 6800 with 256 of DDR3 costs. And thats not 1Ghz (i think). Alot of that price is the fast ram. Like I said I'll belive it when the machine ships.

[hob]

Full specs here (http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/6439.cfm) incase noone had them already...

[iPoster]

halo

What's Halo? :p

Seriously, I played it for about 10 minutes on my brother's Xbox, highly over-rated in comparison to PC or even Mac shooters....

:D

[bushgreen]

i swear sony said the cell was gonna run at over 4ghz. i think sony are only saying 3.2ghz because they proobably havent reached 4ghz yet. plus they are trying to fool microsoft and nintendo in thinking the ps3 will top at 3.2ghz in case nintendo and microsoft pull a move to go faster.

i think just before the ps3 sony will announce the ps3 at over 4ghz.

[GFLPraxis]

i swear sony said the cell was gonna run at over 4ghz. i think sony are only saying 3.2ghz because they proobably havent reached 4ghz yet. plus they are trying to fool microsoft and nintendo in thinking the ps3 will top at 3.2ghz in case nintendo and microsoft pull a move to go faster.

i think just before the ps3 sony will announce the ps3 at over 4ghz.

Sony announced the Cell was 4.6 GHz. If you read the fine print, that was IBM's server Cell, NOT the one in the PS3. It was a cheap way of inspiring hype.

[GFLPraxis]

Symtex: Just FYI, turns out those numbers were wrong.

http://www.cube-europe.com/news.php?nid=7774
E3 2005: Revolution Official Name?
Posted by Conor - May 17th 2005 17:42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Turns out 'Revolution' may be more than just a codename...

With less than half an hour until Nintendo's E3 conference begins, reputable site Club Skill are reporting that 'Revolution' (previously thought to be a prototype name for Nintendo's next home console) will in fact be the official name; either in that form or as "Revolution System" (RS). If this is true, it is very surprising news.

The article also claims that details published earlier in the day about the console's meagre power (in comparison with PS3 and Xbox360) were errorous, and that it will sport technical prowess on its competitors' level. This, at least, would be welcome news.

Stay tuned for confirmation of this news, and more, in the next hour or so.

[PixelFactory]

Symtex: Just FYI, turns out those numbers were wrong.

http://www.cube-europe.com/news.php?nid=7774
E3 2005: Revolution Official Name?
Posted by Conor - May 17th 2005 17:42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Turns out 'Revolution' may be more than just a codename...

With less than half an hour until Nintendo's E3 conference begins, reputable site Club Skill are reporting that 'Revolution' (previously thought to be a prototype name for Nintendo's next home console) will in fact be the official name; either in that form or as "Revolution System" (RS). If this is true, it is very surprising news.

The article also claims that details published earlier in the day about the console's meagre power (in comparison with PS3 and Xbox360) were errorous, and that it will sport technical prowess on its competitors' level. This, at least, would be welcome news.

Stay tuned for confirmation of this news, and more, in the next hour or so.

Gamespot Revolution article (http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/05/17/news_6125078.html)

"By Nintendo's own admission, according to a report from USA Today, the system is two to three times as powerful as its current-generation console, the GameCube. Sony's PlayStation 3, announced yesterday, is reportedly dozens of times powerful than its predecessor, the PlayStation 2."

Nintendo better have something really cool going on with the controller if they plan on competing with Microsoft and Sony.

[iPoster]

Here is some info on the PS3 GFX that was posted on Beyond3D:

RSX will be the most sophisticated graphics processor ever built, representing 1500 person-years of investment. When combined with Cell, it will provide an astounding two teraflops of floating point horsepower. A measure of the extraordinary processing power of RSX compared to current-generation game consoles is the numbers of transistors it will contain: 300 million. This is more than the total number of transistors in both the central processing units and the graphics processing units of the three leading current-generation systems, combined.

:eek: :cool:

[Lacero]

PS3 power is ahead of the curve in Moore's Law. From somewhere around 30 million transistors on the PS2 to over 600 million transistors in the PS3, that's a 20x fold improvement over the course of 6 years, above the expected 16x iterations.

In terms of processing power of the new cell chip, it's over 35x fold, above the expected 16x fold.

[takao]

PS3 power is ahead of the curve in Moore's Law. From somewhere around 30 million transistors on the PS2 to over 600 million transistors in the PS3, that's a 20x fold improvement over the course of 6 years, above the expected 16x iterations.

yeah but 600million is not that much more than in a brand new PC if you only count the CPU and GPU from the graphics card, actually it's roughly the same (hm i think the new 6k series from nvidia and the x800 from ati have both above 250 million transistors ... the former around 300 millions)
the new P4 cores have above 240 as well so that leaves you with roughly 50 millions for all the other chips in the system like the controllers etc. quite was i expected
(leaving out the fact that Moores law applies to transistors in cpus only and not gpu and the amount of transistors in cpus is already at 500 millions for cpus like the Intel Itanium 2 ;) )

[Redneck1089]

Out of curiousity...could someone please tell me why the CELL processor in the PS3 is superior to the three processors in the Xbox 360? Both the processor in the PS3 and Xbox are made by IBM and are running at the 3 Ghz range, aren't they? Someone educate me!! :(

[kuyu]

Out of curiousity...could someone please tell me why the CELL processor in the PS3 is superior to the three processors in the Xbox 360? Both the processor in the PS3 and Xbox are made by IBM and are running at the 3 Ghz range, aren't they? Someone educate me!! :(

The X360 is a waterdowned G5. Powerful, yes, but not really anything that exceeds the current market. The Cell, on the other hand, is one watered down G5 thats only purpose is to direct the SEVEN other processors (each @ 3.2Ghz).

PS3 is about twice as powerful as X360. Keep in mind, however, that X360 is no slouch (~15 times the power of xbox). Gaming is about to blow up!!!

[bushgreen]

so are the xbox 360 and ps3 faster than any PC in the market.

[Fukui]

After seeing those graphics, that alone makes XBOX 3 look like junk.
But when you factor in the pretty pathetic showing of games compared to XBOX 3, PS3 is waaay ahead.

But the design of all the consoles is pretty so-so.
PS3 looks like a DVD/VCR player, XBOX3 looks like a toy,and Revolution looks like a giant SD Card!

[Fukui]

so are the xbox 360 and ps3 faster than any PC in the market.
PS3 if sony's hype is beleived... 2000 gigaflops!!
The best a G5 can do is about theoretically 20+ I beleive.
A lot of that power has to do with the SPE's in the CELL Chip.

Anyone notice all the Next Gen consoles are using Velocity (VMX) engines??
Maybe we'll get better optimization for velocity engine someday.

[takao]

PS3 looks like a DVD/VCR player, XBOX3 looks like a toy,and Revolution looks like a giant SD Card!

lol
but i've got another idea for the PS3:
http://www.ideebasar.com/geschenke/art_2334200.html
that kidna things you put your bread in to stay fresh ;) remove the handle close it, add spiderman font and you got the "Breadstation"

looks like they really hit the nail with the design: thsoe things are really popular:
http://www.yatego.com/design-in-edelstahl/p,4244356b94056,415430b492ec51_6,brotkasten-in-aktuellen-top-design-edelstahl-rolldeckel?sid=7Y1116367083Y8b4ba87274c9da44b68

[cheekyspanky]

I don't feel totally convinced by the Playstation hype just yet - I want to see what it's really like when it's released and if it's really as capable as Sony claim.

Anyone remember how amazing the Emotion engine was supposed to be?

I really do think it just comes down to which has the best games and the pricing strategy that these consoles adopt. I think the Xbox 360 being available for the Christmas market is important as well.

I'm still being pulled towards the Xbox as my most likely purchase.

Isn't it nice to have such hard decisions for once in this area?!

[Platform]

Yes but how much is that going to cost? And that still not 3.2 Ghz. Look at how much a 6800 with 256 of DDR3 costs. And thats not 1Ghz (i think). Alot of that price is the fast ram. Like I said I'll belive it when the machine ships.

Well I saw a 6600 today with 1100Mhz.......going for 200bucks ;)

[GFLPraxis]

PS3 if sony's hype is beleived... 2000 gigaflops!!
The best a G5 can do is about theoretically 20+ I beleive.
A lot of that power has to do with the SPE's in the CELL Chip.

Anyone notice all the Next Gen consoles are using Velocity (VMX) engines??
Maybe we'll get better optimization for velocity engine someday.

Extremely exaggurated. XBox 360 also claims 1 teraflop. 1 teraflop would put it on the top 10 supercomputers list. 2 teraflops means 5 PS3's would outperform virginia tech :rolleyes:

[GFLPraxis]

so are the xbox 360 and ps3 faster than any PC in the market.

In processors, they're weaker than PC's in integer calculations but better (WAY better with the PS3) in floating point.

In graphics cards they blow away current PC's.
By the time they come out though there will be better PC graphics cards though, because the next gen cards should come mid 2005.

[ArcaneDevice]

I don't feel totally convinced by the Playstation hype just yet - I want to see what it's really like when it's released and if it's really as capable as Sony claim.

Anyone remember how amazing the Emotion engine was supposed to be?

I really do think it just comes down to which has the best games and the pricing strategy that these consoles adopt. I think the Xbox 360 being available for the Christmas market is important as well.

I'm still being pulled towards the Xbox as my most likely purchase.

Isn't it nice to have such hard decisions for once in this area?!

Good early comparison here:

http://hardware.gamespot.com/Story-ST-x-1985-x-x-x?tag=boxcar_all_features_image

I agree, it's going to be about the games and how well 360 builds a new fan base in the early months.

On the other hand that PS3 Killzone 2 trailer is the most impressive thing I've seen yet from E3 ...

[daveL]

Extremely exaggurated. XBox 360 also claims 1 teraflop. 1 teraflop would put it on the top 10 supercomputers list. 2 teraflops means 5 PS3's would outperform virginia tech :rolleyes:
The PS3 number is for the CPU/SPEs and the GPU combined.

[csubear]

Well I saw a 6600 today with 1100Mhz.......going for 200bucks ;)

Okay sure.

I am 100% sure that these numbers that are being put out by Microsoft's and Sony's marketing drones are very distorted. Just look at their overall FLOP ratting that these companies are marketing. Now I am not saying that these consoles will suck, but I will say they are not going to be the uber gaming machines that these's specs make them out to be.

And about the memory. If these consoles are going to have 256MB of 3.2ghz memory, then why don't current high end computers have this? If history can be my guide, this years high-end machines are next years new gaming console. So I expect that the PS2 will have the processing power of prehaps a dual 3.0 Ghz powermac w. a 6800...

I am going to remain skeptical about these specs, and I'll believe it when the machine ships.

[MrSugar]

Let me explain.

Microsoft is not going to win this battle. The release of the Xbox a year after the PS2 lead MS to believe it has missed its chance to capture the console market. Little do they know how wrong they are.

There was a high end console released before the PS2, it was called the Dreamcast. It fell, just like the Xbox line eventually will. Microsoft won't die off yet, they are too rich, but it sure is going to be fun watching them throw money away.

Microsoft can't win the console wars unless something seriously changes.

Microsoft lives and dies by one game, Halo. The problem is Halo's getting worse, and Microsoft doesn't have another blockbuster title to fall back on. Great games take years to develop. Just look back on every Zelda title ever released. Unfortunately for Microsoft, they don't have years to put into Halo 3. This is because it is the only way to keep the Xbox 360 from vanishing into the night. Every person that buys the 360 will be buying it for one reason, Halo. It's the only good game that has ever been out exclusively for Xbox.

The problem lies in the fact MS can't make Halo the game that it used to be without putting tons of time into it. Tons of time they don't have to offer, because Halo is the life line of the Xbox. So it will continue, Halo 3 and 4 will come out, each will be alright, but worse than the last. Just like Halo 2 was worse than Halo. Microsoft will try to do what it does in the software market, make new software without many improvments, and charge a premium. Except this time they aren't the leader of the industry, Sony is.

Sony has the fan base, and the games to sustain anything that Microsoft can dream up, much less produce. Think about it, Grand Theft Auto has demolished Halo in sales just on its own. But the PS3 also has Grand Turismo, Final Fantasy, Metal Gear, and tons of 3rd party developers to rely on.

Microsoft just can't win this battle, and it makes me ecstatic.

Also, did I mention the PS3 physically tears apart the 360 in every aspect possible?

[aswitcher]

I am an xbox owner and now wonder if PS3 will be for me...price will be a big factor...if either proves to be interfacable with my Mac that will also be a big factor...

PS3 7 controllers intrigues me.

[cheekyspanky]

Every person that buys the 360 will be buying it for one reason, Halo. It's the only good game that has ever been out exclusively for Xbox.

Microsoft will try to do what it does in the software market, make new software without many improvments, and charge a premium. Except this time they aren't the leader of the industry, Sony is.

Sony has the fan base, and the games to sustain anything that Microsoft can dream up, much less produce. Think about it, Grand Theft Auto has demolished Halo in sales just on its own. But the PS3 also has Grand Turismo, Final Fantasy, Metal Gear, and tons of 3rd party developers to rely on.


Well, I know the two games I'm most interested in playing on the 360 are Project Gotham Racing 3 and Perfect Dark Zero..! Halo is good but it's not the be all and end all for everyone.

As for the other part - can anyone remember a few years back...when it was Nintendo and Sega who dominated the games console industry? Back then who would have said Sony would come into play, gain huge popularity, run Sega out of the console industry and push Nintendo to the rank of a has been?

The console war is ongoing - who knows where we'll be in another 10 years.

[Fukui]

Extremely exaggurated. XBox 360 also claims 1 teraflop. 1 teraflop would put it on the top 10 supercomputers list. 2 teraflops means 5 PS3's would outperform virginia tech :rolleyes:
Yes, and most of those FLOPS are single precision.

I remember when sony's emotion engine was supposed to do 60 million polys a second, and nintendo said thier cube would do 12+ million... the difference? Just look at the graphics of the games and tell me wich one was "more powerful."

Marketing hype is crap. Especially in video games.

[MrSugar]

Yes, and most of those FLOPS are single precision.

I remember when sony's emotion engine was supposed to do 60 million polys a second, and nintendo said thier cube would do 12+ million... the difference? Just look at the graphics of the games and tell me wich one was "more powerful."

Marketing hype is crap. Especially in video games.

Real time video from inside games isn't though.

Look at the Final Fantasy VII video and tell me those aren't the most ground breaking graphics you have ever seen. Killzone2 also looks amazing. I didn't really care about the PS3 until I saw the in game vids, these are simply ground breaking.

[GFLPraxis]

Yes, and most of those FLOPS are single precision.

I remember when sony's emotion engine was supposed to do 60 million polys a second, and nintendo said thier cube would do 12+ million... the difference? Just look at the graphics of the games and tell me wich one was "more powerful."

Marketing hype is crap. Especially in video games.

Yup.
The trick was Nintendo's 12+ million was for fully textured and lit polys while Sony's were not ;)

It seems that they combined graphics card and processor numbers to get the teraflop number, which explains it.

[Fukui]

Real time video from inside games isn't though.

Look at the Final Fantasy VII video and tell me those aren't the most ground breaking graphics you have ever seen. Killzone2 also looks amazing. I didn't really care about the PS3 until I saw the in game vids, these are simply ground breaking.
Yes, absolutely stunning. Absolutely better than XBOX3, but I would still say thier FLOP numbers are... exagerated. Remember XBOX had far better graphics than PS2, did more people buy it? No. People will still buy PS3 if it has better games (which it does).

[Jadeite312]

In the end it will mostlikely come down to which ever system gets Final Fantasy, and im not talking about the online one. Considering the tec demo by square was made on the ps3 it doesnt take a rocket scientist to see where this is going. Why is this game so important? It locks up the japanies market since rpg are the rage and has most developers focus on ps3. The pictures for perfect dark 2 look dull, i expected more from rare.

[MrSugar]

I second your comment about Rare and PD2. I think the game should look much much better than it does. Very depressing.....

[themacman]

whats this uber PSX thing people are talking about?

[Mike Teezie]

Real time video from inside games isn't though.

Look at the Final Fantasy VII video and tell me those aren't the most ground breaking graphics you have ever seen. Killzone2 also looks amazing. I didn't really care about the PS3 until I saw the in game vids, these are simply ground breaking.

Just watched the videos per your request.....simply amazing.

Killzone literally dropped my jaw.

I'm buying all three systems, but I have to say so far I'm most impressed with the Sony box.

[themacman]

Good early comparison here:

http://hardware.gamespot.com/Story-ST-x-1985-x-x-x?tag=boxcar_all_features_image

I agree, it's going to be about the games and how well 360 builds a new fan base in the early months.

On the other hand that PS3 Killzone 2 trailer is the most impressive thing I've seen yet from E3 ...
where are the game vids?

[buryyourbrideau]

yea well expected prices for ps3 are 7-800

but there are rumors that it could maybe go 499.99

expensive

ill wait for it to be a gift, in college i cant throw that money away at that

it should be interesting to see how much it goes for and how much that price will affect its sales since the 360 once again will be 299.99

[Mike Teezie]

where are the game vids?

you can see them at ign.com.

yea well expected prices for ps3 are 7-800

but there are rumors that it could maybe go 499.99

I just don't think Sony will shoot themselves in the foot with a such a high pricetag. I know all the hardware is next gen, but at $700 they would be pricing themselves completely out of the market. Sales at that price, or any price much over $300-400 would leave a whole ton of shiny new PS3's sitting on game store shelves.

And there isn't too much profit in that, amazing graphics or not.

Especially since MS will sell Xbox's at a loss, just to move more units and sell more software.

Don't forget, we are in the most absolutely.....hyperactive part of the marketing campaign for these things. We all remember how the PS2 was going to align planets, feed the hungry, bring world peace, and all that. The reality wasn't quite so romantic, but we still got an excellent generation of gaming systems all around, and eventually at pretty fair prices to boot. Extremely fair in Nintendo's case.

My prediction is, MS and Sony will have launch prices of $400, then quickly become dissatisfied with the low number of units shipping, and drop it to something more reasonable. I'll reserve my predictions on Nintendo's pricing until tomorrow.

[buryyourbrideau]

you can see them at ign.com.



I just don't think Sony will shoot themselves in the foot with a such a high pricetag. I know all the hardware is next gen, but at $700 they would be pricing themselves completely out of the market. Sales at that price, or any price much over $300-400 would leave a whole ton of shiny new PS3's sitting on game store shelves.

And there isn't too much profit in that, amazing graphics or not.

Especially since MS will sell Xbox's at a loss, just to move more units and sell more software.

Don't forget, we are in the most absolutely.....hyperactive part of the marketing campaign for these things. We all remember how the PS2 was going to align planets, feed the hungry, bring world peace, and all that. The reality wasn't quite so romantic, but we still got an excellent generation of gaming systems all around, and eventually at pretty fair prices to boot. Extremely fair in Nintendo's case.

My prediction is, MS and Sony will have launch prices of $400, then quickly become dissatisfied with the low number of units shipping, and drop it to something more reasonable. I'll reserve my predictions on Nintendo's pricing until tomorrow.

yea sony would be selling the ps3 at a loss as well

i have read stories that the graphics cards that come in that console would retail for about 1k

plus all the other goodies that are in that box

i wouldnt be surprised to see it sell that expensive since it would be just as if not more powerful than a completely loaded gaming pc

lets hope not :(

[bushgreen]

can someone please tell me why the cell is not over 4ghz as sony said it will be.

[wide]

As predicted here http://weblog.bbzzdd.com/archives/000834.html :D


Seriously, these numbers are sweet.

324 Mb/sec loading times for Blu-ray...
Thats 40.5 MB per second.

That means it can fill up the 512 MB of RAM in 12 seconds.

i'd hate to think that someone writing his predictions on a blog would actually know what he is talking about.

http://www.forbes.com/markets/2005/05/18/0518automarketscan16.html?partner=yahootix&referrer=

that article explains how a goldman sachs analysts thinks the xbox 360 will be a hit, not a flop.

now, let's think: should we trust a blogger with no experience in analysis using a poorly conceived console as poorly conceived example of why microsoft's xbox 360 will be a flop, or should we trust a Goldman Sachs analyst with a good track record?

[GFLPraxis]

I've seen plenty of other articles with the exact opposite predictions.

[Jadeite312]

The article was writen before the ps3 specs came out and before nintendos presentation. Not to metion the belief was that the ps3 would come out around nov/dec of 06 letting the xbox grow unchallenge, instead its looking like a spring/summer 06 launch for the ps3. That changes the whole picture and the xbox has only around a 6 month head start give or take a few months.

Think of it this way, would you buy a powerbook today knowing for sure that in 6 months there will be a new g5 monster powerbook that will make todays powerbook look a kids toy? Most people would wait, hence the xbox problem.

[Eric_Z]

can someone please tell me why the cell is not over 4ghz as sony said it will be.

Got a link to that?

Because all I've seen is some fluff about what IBM would like to use in some CELL based blade server of sorts.

The Ghz issue is rather moot anyway looking at the prefomance of the chip, but there could be two possible issues for it not being over 4Ghz. 1) Cost, highly clocked chips have poor yields == costly, aspecially if they don't expect to get the process down to 65nm to launch. 2) Heat, highly clocked chips emmit a lot of heat. IIRC a 4Ghz Cell was estimated to output 50-80 W, that's a bad thing for a small livingroom apliance that you are supposed to use for not only mega-blaster FPS's but allso movies, etc.

[Gimzotoy]

Got a link to that?

Because all I've seen is some fluff about what IBM would like to use in some CELL based blade server of sorts.

The Ghz issue is rather moot anyway looking at the prefomance of the chip, but there could be two possible issues for it not being over 4Ghz. 1) Cost, highly clocked chips have poor yields == costly, aspecially if they don't expect to get the process down to 65nm to launch. 2) Heat, highly clocked chips emmit a lot of heat. IIRC a 4Ghz Cell was estimated to output 50-80 W, that's a bad thing for a small livingroom apliance that you are supposed to use for not only mega-blaster FPS's but allso movies, etc.

Yield is the key here. Silicon is extremely expensive. At my company, after you work there for 20 years you get a framed 6" diameter silicon wafer. This is a big deal, as that wafer probably cost the company something like $1000(at least in the past, not sure about current cost).

IBM, as you mentioned, wants to leverage these Cell chips into servers, and it wants to clock them at 4GHz. Now, if you're familiar with the semiconductor industry, you know that each additional processor you add to the line adds significant monetary investment. How do they lower costs while producing a full line-up? They sell reduced clock-rate chips. Say IBM produces 100 of the 4GHz Cell chips, but only half of those can make it through the testing proceedures and become server Cells. In many cases, minor modifications can be made to enable the "failed" chips to run at lower clock rates. Some of the chips incapable of running at their full 4GHz numbers could perform flawlessly at 3.2GHz, for example, allowing them to be used in the PS3, etc. By doing this they reduce wasted silicon. In some cases, especially near the budget end of the line, chips are artificially crippled to meet specific key price points even if they are capable of better performance.

It's really just smart business. As far as I know, all the major fabs do this to some degree.

[GFLPraxis]

can someone please tell me why the cell is not over 4ghz as sony said it will be.

It was a nice trick sony played. The 4.6 GHz Cell with 9 cores they quoted was actually a version of the Cell for IBM Servers. It was never intended for the PS3.

[Abulia]

I've seen plenty of other articles with the exact opposite predictions.Yet you don't provide them.

It's a little curious as to why people have a vested interest in one machine "beating" the other. Can't we all agree competition is good? Get the machine you want that meets your needs. No reason to be snide or flippant about what the other person has/wants/is interested in.

I can understand the need to feel as if you made a "smart" purchase, but none of these machines exist right now (to purchase)!

For some people, Halo is their lives, for others life without Killzone is unimaginable...for others, Mario DDR. :)

[wide]

Think of it this way, would you buy a powerbook today knowing for sure that in 6 months there will be a new g5 monster powerbook that will make todays powerbook look a kids toy? Most people would wait, hence the xbox problem.

Think of it this way, people are still buying powerbooks even though there are lots of predictions for MWSF, no? And how many of the Xboxes are going to be given as gifts during the 4th quarter? and how many people have xboxes and want to get the new, better technology that is compatible with their games? how many people don't want to wait? how many people have the money to buy two consoles?

you really do not know how many people will wait. the price difference between a powerbook and an xbox 360 is also great. considering that a powerbook can cost over $2000 as opposed to a $300 (or perhaps $400) console, it will be much more of a loss for the $2000 notebook to be obsolete sooner than the much cheaper xbox. the cheaper it is, the less people will think of it as a loss if it is "obsolete" sooner. "obsolete" meaning capable of playing state of the art games and capable of functioning with myriad consumer electronic devices and computers. whether microsoft's xbox 360 will defeat Sony's playstation 3 and nintendo's Revolution is (obviously) still unknown, but microsoft has set itself in a great position for sales and for market domination. i'd be happy to place my bets :)

[Mike Teezie]

whether microsoft's xbox 360 will defeat Sony's playstation 3 and nintendo's Revolution is (obviously) still unknown, but microsoft has set itself in a great position for sales and for market domination. i'd be happy to place my bets :)

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with your point here. Of course, this is all specualtion, as nothing has actually launched yet.

I don't believe MS will grab up as much market share as they think by releasing their system so much earlier.

One of the reasons - Halo. Halo 3 isn't a launch title as we know. I think that the overall masses will hold out until Halo releases.

Secondly, net gossip. The general consensus of the masses (ie: NOT the fanboys of any side) is that the PS3 kicks the crap out of the Xbox 360. Is that true? No one knows, but thats the initial reaction. In the age of forums and constant connectivity, that's a pretty big deal - especially considering how many months there are until launch.

And nobody knows WHAT the h*** Nintendo is cooking up.

So in my opinion, the REAL race will begin in '06. When all systems are out, Halo releases, and marketing campaigns are pumping like mad, screenshots and "insider info" have been leaking all over the place for months.....it's going to be awesome.

I hope to see a holy war break out between all the fanboys of the three platforms.

On a side note, I don't want any one system to "win" - I like diversity.

[PixelFactory]

Microsoft has aready said they will release Halo 3 at the same time as the PS3. Sony released Final Fantasy VIII the day before the Dreamcast and it ate up sales. I don't think MS will become the market leader but they will most likely increase their market share by getting the Xbox 360 out this fall. The PS3 will do well because it has raw horsepower. Nintendo is still a wildcard. Will their revolution be groundbreaking or just a gimmick?

[Jadeite312]

The example of the powerbook might be a little off but we all know sales will jump when the powerbook goes G5. Hardcore gamers will get all the systems they can afford, its the normal customer thats the target. Microsoft hads like what around 6 months to make there stand in sales before they are considered dated old slow system. Not to mention Sony will do all it can to be in the lime light with its games coming up.

"microsoft has set itself in a great position for sales and for market domination"

If microsoft had a year head start that would be something but just 6 months?, then factor what Balmer said that they wont do well in japan, add that the general perception is that the xbox is weaker how can they be in a good position? Its not over but what a horrible way to start the next generation console race. History repeats itself, the dreamcast all over again. To many similarities in this case. I remember walking into a EB at the mall, wanting to get a dreamcast, seeing video clips of the ps2 at the store and saying im not going to waste my money on the dreamcast, even the people working at the store were saying wait for the ps2. how is this any different?

[PixelFactory]

Sega didn't have the capital that MS does. They also didn't have the third party developers. The 360 will also hit just as the holiday shopping season starts. When Microsoft starts their marketing machine on the 360, every kid is going to want it for christmas. If they can get a good launch line up, they will be golden.

[Chimera]

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned but there is some good news about the PS3 if you hated the controller, the one that was shown is only a conceptual design, if you had over to engadget they have real pictures of the console and controller.

[Jadeite312]

What 3rd party suport does the xbox360 have when the best japanese developers are putting there star franchise on the ps3 not xbox360. The ps3 is getting devil may cry, grand theft auto, grand turismo, metal gear, final fantasy. The best the xbox 360 has is halo 3 that wont even be a launch title and madden which will develope for everyone. This screams of the dreamcast all over again.

[wide]

this is my last post about this topic, otherwise these arguments would never stop.

Jadeite312: "If microsoft had a year head start that would be something but just 6 months?, then factor what Balmer said that they wont do well in japan, add that the general perception is that the xbox is weaker how can they be in a good position?"

six months -- before christmas, too -- is enough headstart to secure a solid place in the industry.

won't do well in japan -- well, perhaps they aren't targeting Japan. perhaps they are targeting american and european families who will want to purchase their younger generations a super-cool, new game console as a CHRISTMAS present, and who will want a device that can streamline home-entertainment integration.

"general perception" that xbox is weaker: i don't think xbox is weaker. in fact, most people that want these machines haven't heard of them yet, so they do not know what to think about the consoles. i'm going to decide which system is weaker when i see them both side-by-side, and when I see how functional the controls are and how well organized the games are.


you should also realize that the Sony PS3 is based on a new chip design. sure, this may result in extreme power (perhaps even too much for today's HDTVs to handle! :p ), but it also means that games will require a new developing approach and will potentially cost more than games programmed for the xbox 360's existing chip design. this is not to mention that all PS3 games are going to require more time to develop because of the chip architecture, which may mean that the game catalog for PS3 will never surpass that of the xbox 360. oh yeah, everyone loves xbox live as it is -- it's going to get a hell of a lot better on the xbox 360.

-

strangely, i've been reading a lot of commentaries about this and most of them think that nintendo's revolution is going to be the best. weird...i don't think that's going to happen, but wouldn't be funny if after all this arguing, PS3 and Xbox 360 get under 25 percent together and nintendo takes in the rest?

[Eric_Z]

general perception" that xbox is weaker: i don't think xbox is weaker. in fact, most people that want these machines haven't heard of them yet, so they do not know what to think about the consoles. i'm going to decide which system is weaker when i see them both side-by-side, and when I see how functional the controls are and how well organized the games are.

What you think really doesn't count for much, in a "I think so so therefore all thinks so" kind of way, mind.

Now you do have a point though, and that is that what is said in the forums doesn't neccesarely reflect the opinions in the real world. Somethink wich I've not got any idea about, though I'm hoping that the general favour will fall on either the PS3 or the Revolution. Microsoft dominating one industry is plenty enough, not that I'd want them to kill off the Xbox though.

Aside from that I too (like Jadeite312) feel that the PS3 will be the more powerfull solution, overall. The Xbox 360 will do better on 64bit floats (CPU) and streaming integer code (CPU), and it's GPU will have an easier time doing AA. The AA part is the only pice which will be really important for games. The PS3 will do 32bit floats (CPU) wich is the most commonly used float, way, way better then the Xbox360. It's GPU does about 50% more shaders per clock and the GPU on the PS3 clocks 10% higher. The CPU memory on the PS3 will be way lower latency and has slightly better bandwidth, and so on.


you should also realize that the Sony PS3 is based on a new chip design. sure, this may result in extreme power (perhaps even too much for today's HDTVs to handle! :p ), but it also means that games will require a new developing approach and will potentially cost more than games programmed for the xbox 360's existing chip design.

That first point of yours is just plain flippant. But looking aside from that, the second point your making about developing for the PS3, I'm not so shure about. There are auto vectorising and paralelizing compliers out there that will help with programming the SPE's. And from what I've been able to gather so far, the PS3 is easier to develop for then the PS2. It is true though that the Xbox360 is considered to be easier to develop for by developers, but on the otherhand the PS3 is considered the most powerfull one bt the devs. Now, the PS3's extra power means that less optimisation is needed to be able to get the same results as on the Xbox. And if the extra mile in put in, you have a game that will be more competetive, not only on the PS3 market but allso on the console market as a whole, and sell more. So while it might be easier to get a lot out of the Xbox360 hardware, less effort is needed to get a similar result from the PS3 due to it being the more powerfull gaming solution of the two.

strangely, i've been reading a lot of commentaries about this and most of them think that nintendo's revolution is going to be the best. weird...i don't think that's going to happen, but wouldn't be funny if after all this arguing, PS3 and Xbox 360 get under 25 percent together and nintendo takes in the rest?

I hope the Revolution does well, I really do. I'd hate to see the console market shrink to two players :(

I'm thinking of perhaps getting one to be able to play Iceclimber on a console again. Mmmm... poor use of hardware with massive power.... ;)

[vouder17]

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned but there is some good news about the PS3 if you hated the controller, the one that was shown is only a conceptual design, if you had over to engadget they have real pictures of the console and controller.

How about a link...i couldnt find it.
One thing though....Sony has my money. This time next year i will be buying a beautiful New Black PS3 with that new western game from Rockstar..awesome stuff!!

[vouder17]

you should also realize that the Sony PS3 is based on a new chip design. sure, this may result in extreme power (perhaps even too much for today's HDTVs to handle! :p ), but it also means that games will require a new developing approach and will potentially cost more than games programmed for the xbox 360's existing chip design. this is not to mention that all PS3 games are going to require more time to develop because of the chip architecture, which may mean that the game catalog for PS3 will never surpass that of the xbox 360. oh yeah, everyone loves xbox live as it is -- it's going to get a hell of a lot better on the xbox 360.



Ok some fair points.
But seriously, just look at the xbox 360 and then look at the PS3....no competition. The PS3 wins hands down. It looks waaaay better, the graphics are far superior on the PS3 than on the xbox 360, I know that they say that the reason why the demos were bad was because they were running them on PowerMacs, but c'mon if sony can release a decent demo then so can Mircosoft, and Sony has the time to improove what they have....Mircosoft on the other hand needs to have half a million shipments ready to go in 6 months time...

Oh and did i mention that the PS3 looks prettier.. :p