Did Nintendo blow it???

[kuyu]

Well, e3 is almost over and I for one am extremely dissapointed in Big N's showing. The DS titles look great, but my gamecube broke and I'm not buying another one. I can wait for the new zelda on revolution.

Sony and M$ gave us what we wanted. Specs, screens, videos (even rendered), developers, titles, a time frame.

Nintendo, on the other hand, gave us a speech about how hardware is unimportant, and it's software that sells systems. Then they don't show any software!!! What the hell?

I saw Reggie's interview yesterday, and he said they are afraid that Sony and M$ will steal their idea if they tell us what the revolution is. BS. What's to stop them from strealing it one year from now? The PS3 won't be out for another year and half. If the idea is SO revolutionary, how can Sony and M$ steal it after they have both debuted their respective consoles.

Nintendo had all the hype, attention, and momentum going into e3. And they turned it into... resent. Check the boards accross the net. People are pissed. Way to blow all your goodwill Nintendo. I am less likely to buy a Revolution today than I was a week ago. Not exactly an effective e3 for Big N.

Thoughts???

[eva01]

since when is it a law to show the specs of your next system at E3???????

I think they did a fabolous job at E3, i wouldn't want to give away my smoking gun either. I think people are just too used to being baby fed all the time. I like the suspense that Nintendo has given me, makes me want the system all the more.

[manicdvln]

Well, e3 is almost over and I for one am extremely dissapointed in Big N's showing. The DS titles look great, but my gamecube broke and I'm not buying another one. I can wait for the new zelda on revolution.

Sony and M$ gave us what we wanted. Specs, screens, videos (even rendered), developers, titles, a time frame.

Nintendo, on the other hand, gave us a speech about how hardware is unimportant, and it's software that sells systems. Then they don't show any software!!! What the hell?

I saw Reggie's interview yesterday, and he said they are afraid that Sony and M$ will steal their idea if they tell us what the revolution is. BS. What's to stop them from strealing it one year from now? The PS3 won't be out for another year and half. If the idea is SO revolutionary, how can Sony and M$ steal it after they have both debuted their respective consoles.

Nintendo had all the hype, attention, and momentum going into e3. And they turned it into... resent. Check the boards accross the net. People are pissed. Way to blow all your goodwill Nintendo. I am less likely to buy a Revolution today than I was a week ago. Not exactly an effective e3 for Big N.

Thoughts???

Sony stole the analog stick and quickly made an updated PS1 version of its gamepad after N64 was unveiled to have one. PS2 and XBOX both have rumble packs after N64 was unveiled to have one.

Nintendo leads the industry, the rest just copy.

[PlaceofDis]

i dont see it as a problem, although im only lightly following events right now. i see it as them creating interest and suspense about their product that makes you want to know more, they just have to deliever something spectacular otherwise it will be a letdown

[kuyu]

Sony stole the analog stick and quickly made an updated PS1 version of its gamepad after N64 was unveiled to have one. PS2 and XBOX both have rumble packs after N64 was unveiled to have one.

Nintendo leads the industry, the rest just copy.

I totally agree, MS and Sony are experts at ripping nintendo off. However, I fail to see how showing us a screen shot is going to 'let the cat out of the bag'.

I would have loved to have seen the revolutionary feature, but I can understand why Nintendo is hesitant to show it off. Still though, Nintendo could have shown us everything the Rev. does that's merely competitive.

If big N's strategy is to own e3 next year, they're screwed. We will be playing 2nd or 3rd gen X360 games by then, and Sony will have tons of playable demos next year. Don't get me wrong, I'd LOVE to see Nintendo own this console war. But, I'm less and less sure that they will make home consoles 10 years from now :(

[sethypoo]

i dont see it as a problem, although im only lightly following events right now. i see it as them creating interest and suspense about their product that makes you want to know more, they just have to deliever something spectacular otherwise it will be a letdown

I agree, what Nintendo is doing (and doing very well) is basic PR. They're building up the hype like you wouldn't believe.

Look at us! All us geeks and techies are typing up a storm about how "mad" we all are that Nintendo didn't release specifics on their console, and Nintendo is benefiting from all this free PR. I think that secretly, each of us wants to know what the Revolution will be, exactly, and that if it's cool enough, a lot of people are going to buy one. Go Nintendo, I say. I'll be buying a Xbox 360 the day it comes out, and Nintendo Revolution the day it comes out. Thank God they're not comingt out close to each other.

Perfect Dark Zero.....oh my Lord. That looks so, so cool.

Seth

[manicdvln]

I totally agree, MS and Sony are experts at ripping nintendo off. However, I fail to see how showing us a screen shot is going to 'let the cat out of the bag'.

I would have loved to have seen the revolutionary feature, but I can understand why Nintendo is hesitant to show it off. Still though, Nintendo could have shown us everything the Rev. does that's merely competitive.

If big N's strategy is to own e3 next year, they're screwed. We will be playing 2nd or 3rd gen X360 games by then, and Sony will have tons of playable demos next year. Don't get me wrong, I'd LOVE to see Nintendo own this console war. But, I'm less and less sure that they will make home consoles 10 years from now :(

Just today Iwata had an interview with Reuters, they mentioned that everything of revolution will be revealed end of THIS YEAR.

Which is good news to all nintendo fans who dreaded that revolution will be unveiled at next E3. This also means that nintendo is pushing for an early 2006 launch of Revolution which is GOOD NEWS!

[slb]

I think they blew it. Even without revealing specs or details, they could have gotten people more interested in Revolution. All their cryptic statements are hollow.

[MacNut]

Its gonna be another year so people will have a lot of time to get interested, Its not like the PS3 or 360 is coming out next week.

[mac-er]

Nintendo leads the industry, the rest just copy.

Sure, they do.

That is why they took an overwhelming lead in the console industry (NES) and ran it into the ground.

The Gamecube was a flop, really. Though, it was heavily popular with kids...since that is what Nintendo specializes in with consoles these days (There was serious talk by several major retailers to stop carrying it all together).

[calyxman]

Don't they patent these new ideas? I mean why are they so worried about another company copying them when they've got the patent laws behind them? :confused:

[sethypoo]

The Gamecube was a flop, really. Though, it was heavily popular with kids...since that is what Nintendo specializes in with consoles these days (There was serious talk by several major retailers to stop carrying it all together).

Might I see some proof? I think that major retailers would not want to stop carrrying Nintendo products; they still sell well.

[eva01]

Don't they patent these new ideas? I mean why are they so worried about another company copying them when they've got the patent laws behind them? :confused:

yes they patten the ideas, but does sony care about that, hell no, they still go and steal it, then get sued ;)

[MacNut]

Nintendo is a lot like Apple in that they both have diehard fans who will buy no matter what they make, That is what will keep Nintendo around.

[Dagless]

i seem to find myself saying this a lot at the moment... but the Rev isnt due for launch for over a year, so why are people thinking "ZOMG! N1NTENDO SUXXORS!1" just because they havnt given out anything detailed about the rev yet? especially when, like what Shigsy said, the competition will just copy. and they will do, PS and M$ fanboys will probably shout at me but they do just copy.

i think its totally fair of them to keep things secret. builds more excitement. i was happier not knowing the Xbox 360 looked like a childs safety pillow (just invented) and the PS3's "Design will change" look to it. i like surprises and the Rev is going to be greatest console surprise yet.

good day :)

[slb]

The reason is because the hype of the X-Box 360 and Playstation 3 will make gamers save up to buy them, and developers to make games for them. It makes it feel like Nintendo has nothing to offer but promises and vaporware.

[Jeromie]

While I'd love to hear more from Nintendo about what the Revolution is going to be, with the launch over a year away it may be in their best interest to hold off for now. They want the peak of the frenzy to hit at the same time their consoles are getting to store shelves, and they don't want the competition to have time to counter their ideas before the launch date. That said, I imagine there will be more information about the Revolution around the Xbox 360 launch to steal some steam.

Then again, Nintendo seems to think they're competing in a totally different market. Perhaps they will just ignore the competition. That would not be wise.

[calyxman]

With Nintendo showing nothing it's only going to leave Sony and MS on the majority of gamers' minds. Both companies will get more attention than Nintendo, and that will kind of build momentum for the two while Nintendo is sitting in the background.

I have nothing against them trying to keep something secret. What I am worried about is, are we going to see a repeat of N64 and Gamecube, where they come in last place in this next gen battle?

What if the concept they're keeping a secret isn't that big of hit? What if gamers are like "yeah, that's cool but who cares anyway?" I mean, will it be too late for them to change their strategy? At least MS and Sony are testing the waters right now, and even MS's Ballmer noted that the Xbox 360's design is not final.

I mean there's good and bad about what Nintendo is doing right now. They were very secretive of the N64. What did it gain them at the time?

[Poff]

Sony and M$ gave us what we wanted. Specs, screens, videos (even rendered), developers, titles, a time frame.

Just a little thing; Rendered videos are bad, not-rendered (real-time gameplay) videos are good.

Apart from that, yeah, Nintendo seems a little cocky believing they're catering to a totally different market. And maybe they should have shown a few more gameplay screenshots.

On the other hand, I think a lot of people in here need to take a rest from their US-eyes. Nintendo are BIG in places like Japan, and that's a BIG market aswell. I don't think they'll be the winner in the next of the console wars either, but maybe a number 2, instead of the shared number 2 they had with Microsoft this time? (the two sold approx. the same amount of consoles, though Nintendo made the most money of all three.)

[MacNut]

The only problem with the N64 is that it used a cartridge, Nintendo later said that was a mistake but at the time they wanted games to load faster than the PS1, N64 was a great system maybe the greatest that Nintendo ever made. The games were revolutionary as Mario 64 changed the way games were made and played.

[jaw04005]

The problem with Nintendo is that the gaming culture in Japan is much different from the gaming culture in the United States and surrounding countries. Nintendogs anyone?

I also don't think Iwata "gets" the purpose of E3. E3 is the expo to launch new systems and games. Sony and Microsoft seem to understand that. Nintendo fails to understand. If they continue to refuse to fully participate, Nintendo should pull out of E3 all together and focus on their Nintendo Spaceworld conference.

It's true that Nintendo is receiving huge amounts of press. However, it is NEGATIVE press. Iwata stood on stage at last year's E3 and said that Nintendo messed up the Gamecube launch. He also said that Nintendo will not let [Sony] do that to them again. It's a year later, and it appears Nintendo is going down the same path.

It's true that Nintendo drives the innovation in the gaming industry. But, they deliver at a slower pace than Sony and Microsoft.

I'm more concerned about DS than the Revolution. The DS has been out for months, and still lacks a decent collection of first party titles. When are we going to get our hands on these new "innovative" titles that we've been promised such as Mario and Luigi 2, Animal Crossing, Mario Kart, Kirby and Legend of Zelda DS?

We have been seeing Animal Crossing DS screenshots since before the DS was announced. Where is the game? Nintendo now says it will ship in November in North America. It's been over a year, SHIP something.

Nintendo also announced that the DS will be able to take advantage of wireless networks to download items and play online with other players. Where is it? It's been months, and still no direct timeline for launch of the wireless service.

Also, where's the adaptor that allows DS owners to play videos and music on their systems?

Nintendo is the king of first-party titles on their systems. Super Mario 64 and WarioWare Touched are the only first-party titles worth purchasing. Does Nintendo really expect DS owners to just keep on waiting? Yoshi Touch & Go and Pokemon Dash are sorry excuses for launch titles.

On another note, What happened to Mario 128? Miyamoto said on G4 that he felt like he has done the public a diservice. That Mario 128 is not necessarily a game, but just a concept.

[wrldwzrd89]

I think Nintendo's strategy is to deliberately be quiet at E3, saving the big unveiling for their own event later. This way they get more coverage and are less likely to have their ideas ripped out from underneath them. This strategy is pretty similar to what Apple does, in fact.

[Jadeite312]

Im kinda torn on what to think about them. The xbox is coming out this winter, the ps3 is supose to come out spring 2006, nintendo no idea when there coming out. Yes they should keep somethings under wraps that way the other companies cant steal there ideas but at the same time tease us enought to have interest in there new machine. Im guessing they feel that this year will be all about Zelda, and they fear that by talking about the next system they will lose potential customer in console sales and game sales. I remember reading that the nes sold the most the year the snes came out, so hey maybe nintendo know what there doing trying focus on sales today instead of on future products, who knows.

[calyxman]

Yeah but Sony and MS are not worried about cannabilizing current system sales. In fact, with the backwards compatability being addressed, that will keep the stream of current generation games live and active. I'm in the market for a new system and knowing that the newest generation is roughly 6 months away, I have no interest in buying any of the current generation systems. It's not like a Powerbook update, where someone needs a new Powerbook right away because they can't wait. With games, hey, you can wait....or at least some of us can, right? :p

[HasanDaddy]

The N64 was probably the best gaming system ever made --- the games on that system, whether it be Mario 64, Mario Kart, StarFox 64, Int Superstar Soccer, and Diddy Kong Racing, most DEFINITELY changed the way we play games

however, a big reason why is because of RARE

Nintendo has gone DOWNHILL ever since Rare has left for Microsoft, and for some reason, Nintendo's own developers really haven't stepped up to the plate

I thought the GameCube was really pathetic - the N64 has better graphics and better gamplay

Hopefully, Nintendo will get those good software titles out, and maybe try and hire away former developers of RARE

[Mav451]

The N64 was probably the best gaming system ever made --- the games on that system, whether it be Mario 64, Mario Kart, StarFox 64, Int Superstar Soccer, and Diddy Kong Racing, most DEFINITELY changed the way we play games

however, a big reason why is because of RARE

Nintendo has gone DOWNHILL ever since Rare has left for Microsoft, and for some reason, Nintendo's own developers really haven't stepped up to the plate

I thought the GameCube was really pathetic - the N64 has better graphics and better gamplay

Hopefully, Nintendo will get those good software titles out, and maybe try and hire away former developers of RARE

Man I'm out of date. I didn't even know Rare had left. Meh...I pretty much stopped playing consoles altogether. I only play at get-togethers now. Its either 4 player DD/Mario Party, or I'm not playing it.

[Poff]

I thought the GameCube was really pathetic - the N64 has better graphics

I think you should look again. If this is true, then N64 had better graphics than both PS2 and XBox aswell.

[GFLPraxis]

Well, every tiny detail they DID tell us rocked.

Backwards compatability back to the NES...rocks.
Beautiful case...rocks.
Super Smash Bros Online...rocks.

We just wished there was more.

[GFLPraxis]

Man I'm out of date. I didn't even know Rare had left. Meh...I pretty much stopped playing consoles altogether. I only play at get-togethers now. Its either 4 player DD/Mario Party, or I'm not playing it.

Rare was bought by Microsoft, but everyone at Rare quit and formed a new company IIRC when MS bought them.

[GFLPraxis]

The N64 was probably the best gaming system ever made --- the games on that system, whether it be Mario 64, Mario Kart, StarFox 64, Int Superstar Soccer, and Diddy Kong Racing, most DEFINITELY changed the way we play games

however, a big reason why is because of RARE

Nintendo has gone DOWNHILL ever since Rare has left for Microsoft, and for some reason, Nintendo's own developers really haven't stepped up to the plate

I thought the GameCube was really pathetic - the N64 has better graphics and better gamplay

Hopefully, Nintendo will get those good software titles out, and maybe try and hire away former developers of RARE

What? You are seriously uninformed if you think the N64 had better graphics than GAMECUBE. Have you ever played one? GameCube squishes the PS2.

Unless you think the PS2 is capable of the kind of rendering we see in Resident Evil 4, Zelda: The Wind Waker (which contrary to popular opinion of people who never played it, had some INCREDIBLE graphics), Metroid Prime, and the new Zelda?

http://cubemedia.ign.com/cube/image/article/614/614571/the-legend-of-zelda-gcn-20050516024558732.jpg
http://cubemedia.ign.com/cube/image/article/614/614571/the-legend-of-zelda-gcn-20050516024556263.jpg

IMO Nintendo's only mistakes were bad third party support and lack of online play, both of which they are rectifying with the Revolution. Graphics left NOTHING lacking.

http://cubemedia.ign.com/cube/image/metroidrev_111102_in1x.jpg
http://cubemedia.ign.com/cube/image/metroidrev_111102_in2x.jpg
http://cubemedia.ign.com/cube/image/primeugenegc4.jpg
http://cubemedia.ign.com/cube/image/article/559/559287/metroid-prime-2-echoes-20041022113320498.jpg

Yes, these are all in game.
You don't honestly think the N64 could have done that?

[Mav451]

Rare was bought by Microsoft, but everyone at Rare quit and formed a new company IIRC when MS bought them.

Wow, that's great to hear. So what company are the Rare people working at now?

[Poff]

IGN doesn't allow direct linking, so I can't se your pictures, Prax.

Here are a few in-game pictures from the new Zelda, hosted by Nintendo.com:

http://media.nintendo.com/mediaFiles/f9bf22c2-d6f1-46cb-a1cf-d16c77d0e6cf.jpg
http://media.nintendo.com/mediaFiles/7cd3807e-e59c-4865-855b-d891ae8b9c92.jpg
http://media.nintendo.com/mediaFiles/2c218afd-7ac7-4ef3-8bbd-d74495396859.jpg
http://media.nintendo.com/mediaFiles/fb05d3dc-a792-4681-8dbe-d8db5df70d93.jpg


*I'd love to see such pictures from the PS2

[Jadeite312]

Yes the Cube puts up better graphic that the ps2 but then again it came out like 1+year later so thats kinda a no brainer. Just wish nintendo gave us something a little bit more to talk about, right now its all ps3, xbox2 and almost like nintendo doesnt exist.

On a side note nintendo is at almost a catch 22 here, if they talk before the xbox launches then microsoft will incorporate the new inovation on there machine, wait until the xbox comes out and talk then sony only get stonger by having them adapt this inovation to there system, finally if they wait until after the ps3 is launched its almost like you know they will focuse on the preteen market and not be a real threat to sony or microsoft.

[Dagless]

Nintendo has gone DOWNHILL ever since Rare has left for Microsoft

two words; Starfox Adventures.

Rare are monkies who've been lucky to have a few good hits. infact i can probably count the number of good Rare games ive played, all the rest just seem too similar to be counted as different games. goldeneye, jet force gemini, at a pinch Perfect Dark.

Goldeneye was tremendous. i seriously doubt they will make another game as good as that. and it had better be ported to the DS. its MORE than possible!

[mac4drew]

I think their main goal at this point is showing off something that no one can copy (over 20 years of backwards compatibility) that will be more profitable than any other move in history. Think about it though, this feature is going to make them a ton of money in itself. These games have been sitting in Nintendo's vault, gathering dust for all these years. If they charged $5-$10 per downloadable classic game, people would buy a huge number of games and it would all be PURE PROFIT for Nintendo. They own the rights to these games and they've already paid to make them. The only costs would be with serving the content and selling the hardware and I'm sure what they charge will cover that.

I own a modded Xbox currently and I can play all these games and more (Xbox, PS1, N64, SNES, Genesis, NES, GB, GBC, GBA) on the xbox thanks to homebrew emulators that have been released for modded Xboxes. I've often thought that if someone could find a way to market this feature on a console, they would end up making a lot of money. Now someone has. People love these old games (look at how well those controllers you plug into your TV with all those "classic games" have been selling).

So while nothing about the Revolution that has been released specs wise is really that impressive, this feature alone lets me know that Nintendo is not going anywhere. And those Zelda screenshots don't look half bad either.

[GFLPraxis]

Wow, that's great to hear. So what company are the Rare people working at now?

The IIRC was because I can't remember the name of that company :( But I think that it was the people who did TimeSplitters.

Just looked it up...


After Goldeneye, most of the talent left and started their own company (the people who make Timesplitters - Free Radical). After that, it started to go downhill. PD still worked because it was basically Goldeneye 1.5 (a vast technical imporvement, but not as revolutionary as the original). Conker, Banjo_tooie and Mickey's Speedway were also rehashes of their older work with a few more polygons added, but didn't live up to the originals.

After Rare whored itself to MS, whatever real talent that was left in the company left. It's little more then a name now.

If you want to see a "Rare" game, get Timesplitters.

[GFLPraxis]

So while nothing about the Revolution that has been released specs wise is really that impressive,
...have they released anything spec wise?

I'm pretty sure they've said nothing other than "It will be on the same level as our competitors".

[calyxman]

Zelda Ocarino of Time was my favorite for N64, followed by Wave Race.

http://pub.tv2.no/multimedia/TV2/archive/00176/Zelda_-_Ocarina_of__176699a.gif

http://yannick.fleurit.free.fr/Game%20Design/Camera%20Screenshots/Zelda%20Ocarina%20of%20Time-01.jpg

http://www.gamerankings.com/screens3/312/1.jpg

Wave Race had the most refreshing graphics of any N64 title.

[Cheap-Chopstix]

The N64 was probably the best gaming system ever made --- the games on that system, whether it be Mario 64, Mario Kart, StarFox 64, Int Superstar Soccer, and Diddy Kong Racing, most DEFINITELY changed the way we play games

however, a big reason why is because of RARE

Nintendo has gone DOWNHILL ever since Rare has left for Microsoft, and for some reason, Nintendo's own developers really haven't stepped up to the plate

I thought the GameCube was really pathetic - the N64 has better graphics and better gamplay

Hopefully, Nintendo will get those good software titles out, and maybe try and hire away former developers of RARE

What has Rare done since? Grabbed by the Ghoulies? Pffft that was a laugh. A lot of the orignal developers left Rare. So the only thing MS got was a name and some of Rare's franchises. The orignal talent is gone. I think Nintendo's major mistake was not getting enough orignal third party support. Viewtiful Joe was excellent and RE4 but they were far and few between. They definately need to get some good and exclusive 3rd party support.

[Pismo]

I think Nintendo is going to tank in a few years. Their consoles are not that exciting anymore and they just can't compete with the newest consoles that are coming out. Nintendo is turning into Sega actually. I think Nintendo should scrap everything except their hand helds and just stick to making games for other consoles. I think they would be very succesful.

[RalfyRojas]

Don't everyone jump on me for saying this but it has to be said... Nintendo fans are in denial. I'm what could be coined as a "traditionalist gamer", that is that I believe Nintendo - the company that was once synonymous with videos games - should reclaim it's rightful throne . Sadly it doesn't seem like it's gonna happen in this lifetime. The same arrogance and Stubborness that made them pull out a cartridge system with the N64, when all the other systems made the rightful transition to CD, is what's gonna be their eventual downfall and lead them to the shameful path that sega was forced to tread.And I have to say THEY DESERVE IT. They've forgotten that their fans have grown up and have failed to take the obvious in-their-face hints from Sony's success. Not only have they flat out refused to mature their catalog of games to reflect the aging demographic of gamers, but they keep ending up 10 steps behind the competition, as far as system specs go. The only "Revolution" in the big N's future is the quick tailspin into the dumpster right after Sony layeth the smacket downeth with the PS3 AND the PSP.

Ralfy

[RalfyRojas]

I think Nintendo is going to tank in a few years. Their consoles are not that exciting anymore and they just can't compete with the newest consoles that are coming out. Nintendo is turning into Sega actually. I think Nintendo should scrap everything except their hand helds and just stick to making games for other consoles. I think they would be very succesful.

All good things must come to an end. Nintendo won't transition into only a software company... they have to much pride to concede that they can't compete in this new generation of high powered consoles. And I must say, even with all the anger and pity that I have towards them, there's still the lingering nostalgia of a 5 year old boy relishing his innocence by saving the world with that timeless plumber. :(

Ralfy

[Bobak]

i have always found nintendo games to be very engaging and enjoying to play, yeah the graphics does leave a bit to be desired but the game play is amazing. i can spend hours playing mario, and all the best games on the xbox and ps2 work on the game cube as well (i own a ps2 by the way, and i felt really let down by GTA:SA).

apparently the new console can allow users to download older games off the nintendo server (hopefully for free, but i doubt it). that does sound interesting.

remember with the gameboy, when all the competition has colour screens but nintendo kept their B&W to save battery life. that proved successful.

[ScottDodson]

I could never see Nintendo leaving the hardware market...they MADE the gaming (yeah, yeah, sega too ;) ) world.

I tend to think of Nintendo losing it's luster when other companies besides Rare started taking big time titles to other consoles...square anyone? When Nintendo lost it's (somewhat) exclusive titles like Mega Man (capcom) and final fantasy (square) I think those are what hurt them the most. It saddens me that people associate Mega Man and Final Fantasy with Playstation now...

For the longest time kids accross the world always though old Mega Man was a Nintendo character :-\

[calyxman]

The same arrogance and Stubborness that made them pull out a cartridge system with the N64, when all the other systems made the rightful transition to CD, is what's gonna be their eventual downfall and lead them to the shameful path that sega was forced to tread.And I have to say THEY DESERVE IT. They've forgotten that their fans have grown up and have failed to take the obvious in-their-face hints from Sony's success. Not only have they flat out refused to mature their catalog of games to reflect the aging demographic of gamers, but they keep ending up 10 steps behind the competition, as far as system specs go. The only "Revolution" in the big N's future is the quick tailspin into the dumpster right after Sony layeth the smacket downeth with the PS3 AND the PSP.

Ralfy

As the old adage goes, you reap what you sow.

Apparently, many think that Sega's downfall occurred with the Dreamcast, when in reality the Dreamcast was the final chapter to a miserable saga that began with the Sega CD, 32X and Game Gear. The whole strategy in the early 90s was in total disarray. Many of us diehard Sega fans were hoping that the Sega would wipe the slate clean and start anew in the 32-bit generation with the release of the Saturn--the 32X was an absolute waste, as if it were a holding pattern that helped Sega bridge the gap between 16 and 32-bit generations. On the other hand, the Sega Genesis was an absolute phenomenal success, the Sonic the Hedgehog franchise caused raves amongst gamers, and the marketting from Sega was spectacular. But Sega never knew how to continue their success.

Unfortunately the Saturn was not only high-priced, but its library of games left many in doubt. At the same time, a newcomer by the name of Sony debuted its first ever console in the marketplace shortly after Sega's Saturn and turned into an all-time hit. Sega chalks up another failure, as the memorable Saturn is short-lived.

While Sony was gaining steam, another competitor who was still stuck in the 16-bit generation was placing its bets with designing a first-ever 64-bit powerhouse that would annihilate the competition. The question remained, when was this graphics beast going to hit the market. Sony had upwards of almost a year to rake in the marketshare until our beloved Nintendo finally launched that 64-bit marvel. The excitement was ephemeral, as only two games hit the shelves (Mario 64 and Pilot Wings) when the N64 launched.

Sony kept gaining, and Nintendo and Sega kept losing. Sega's battle was slipping because of abandonment in the developer community, and Nintendo was losing because of it's misguided focus with the N64, who opted for the faster loading, but more expensive and low-capacity cartridges.

Think about it: Sony is successful today because Nintendo and Sega allowed them to be successful. All the gamers who bought Playstations in the mid-90s were either once customers of Nintendo or Sega.

And who's to blame Microsoft for entering the scene? They saw an opportunity to take on the electronics giant, because the other guys were still trying to figure it all out.

It's really sad when you look at it, but hey such is life. Nintendo has a chance to really turn things around. We'll just have to see.

[eva01]

Final Fantasy is a friggen piece of crap game. "hey let me attack you, then LET you attack me" If i were to get into an actual fight with someone, do i say "oh its your turn to hit me" hell no i curb their ass. final fantasy is a pathetic game, always has been always will be.

Sega Dreamcast was one badass awesome system. Shenmue anyone? That system was amazingly good.

Zelda >>>> anything the competition can dream up (already have zelda on preorder for about 2 months now, can't wait for October)
Mario >>>> anything the competition can dream up

same with metroid and star fox. Star Fox assault rocks (last game i bought for GC so far)

And today what system did i go out an buy a game for? Nintendo DS. What game did i get? Mario Pinball Land! Am I addicted to the game? Hell yes i can't put it down (except to make this post)

People that think Nintendo is failing, clearly don't know their stuff. They only base their ASSUMPTIONS on how many of their friends own Nintendo Products. They don't know how damn well it sells in Japan (much better than Xbox) They don't know that they make their own games (unlike MS and Sony for the most part) and make a ton of profit off of that, not just the system.

All these people that say Nintendo is failing seem to remind me of the same people that say Apple is failing. Interesting isn't it???

Also just let me add, Nintendogs got a perfect rating from 4 of the toughest game raters in all of Japan 40/40.

What games am i waiting for to buy? Zelda, Animal Crossing DS, Nintendogs. Any games for sony or Xbox? Nope. What system am i waiting for next year? Nintendo Revolution. Why? Because does Xbox or Sony allow me to download LTTP or Super Mario World, or Super Mario Bros 3 (#1 selling game of all time btw)? Also zelda is by far the greatest creation in the history of video games.

EDIT: Oh yeah Warioware Twisted looks awesome, i plan on getting that game as well.

[calyxman]

People that think Nintendo is failing, clearly don't know their stuff. They only base their ASSUMPTIONS on how many of their friends own Nintendo Products. They don't know how damn well it sells in Japan (much better than Xbox) They don't know that they make their own games (unlike MS and Sony for the most part) and make a ton of profit off of that, not just the system.

All these people that say Nintendo is failing seem to remind me of the same people that say Apple is failing. Interesting isn't it???


Well I wouldn't quite go as far as saying that Nintendo will fail. I mean it's possible, but that possibility is remote and unlikely. But I do think that Nintendo is in an awkward position based on what they've been used to in the past, and it's been 2 generations of consoles and yet Nintendo has still not made that great of an impact in the US market place.

Again, it's nice to make comparisons to Apple but when comparing the two, it's like apples and oranges--no pun intended. Apple always had it's small market share and frankly its been doing fine with its userbase which happens to be distinctly segmented from the rest of the PC population (as we can tell around here). (On a side note, ever saw the iPod's market share? Totally dominating the MP3 player marketplace without a doubt, and that's what Jobs wants.)

Nintendo on the other hand, without a choice must compete head-to-head with MS and Sony. They need the consumer, they want the developers and they want the marketshare. I'm sorry, but the people who think Nintendo is a niche player don't get it. Nintendo is not used to being upstaged by two other competitors worldwide when they were once the king of the mountain so to speak. Yeah they might be popular in Japan, but guess what Sony is wildly popular in Japan too, and the PSP now looms as a threat in the portable market. Sony isn't playing games around here. They'd rather see Nintendo writing games for their consoles instead of Nintendo writing games for their own.

It's too early to tell if Nintendo is on the right path or not, we still have no details regarding the revolution. But I think Nintendo has to be on our minds. I personally would like for my next system to come from Nintendo, but I'm not going to buy it out of blind faith for the company in protest to MS and Sony. That would be stupid.

[neoelectronaut]

No, I wouldn't say Nintendo blew it. Why would anyone say that? They have some excellent stuff coming out in the coming months.

So we get some non-gameplay, prerendered videos of what the PS3 is "supposed" to be like, and we get, well, the XBox 360 (*snicker*), and everyone is like OMGZ NINTENDO IS TEH DOOMED!

Reality Check. Sony and Microsoft are throwing around huge numbers about how powerful their systems are, and many casual gamers seem to think that the Revolution won't be quite so powerful.

Anyone remember the early days of the PS2? Sony claiming "Toy Story" quality graphics, and, what was it? Something like 125 Million Polygons per second? Ha. RIGHT.

Anywho, this all brings me back to the PSP....

...ah yes, the PSP. The handheld that would "bring down" Nintendo. Nintendo's 16-year long dominance in the handheld category.

Don't think we'll see that for some time after all. After all the E3 news is over, almost every message board I go to is a-buzz with Mario Kart Online, Animal Crossing Online, Electroplankton, Nintendogs, and alot of other DS game news. (Metroid, etc.)

...as for the PSP. Not a peep. I guess it's just not as successful as everyone thought it'd be after all, hmm?

[neoelectronaut]

Sony stole the analog stick and quickly made an updated PS1 version of its gamepad after N64 was unveiled to have one. PS2 and XBOX both have rumble packs after N64 was unveiled to have one.

Nintendo leads the industry, the rest just copy.

Kinda like...Apple?

[neoelectronaut]

I have nothing against them trying to keep something secret. What I am worried about is, are we going to see a repeat of N64 and Gamecube, where they come in last place in this next gen battle?

Okay, I can't take this anymore.

WHO THE HELL GODDAMN CARES IF THEY'RE IN THIRD PLACE ANYMORE.

They make quality products. Dare I say it...LIKE APPLE.

Apple is also in last place. That doesn't stop you from buying their stuff, does it?

Who the HELL cares about "WHO'S IN THE LEAD" anymore?

[0s and 1s]

If big N's strategy is to own e3 next year, they're screwed. We will be playing 2nd or 3rd gen X360 games by then, and Sony will have tons of playable demos next year. Don't get me wrong, I'd LOVE to see Nintendo own this console war. But, I'm less and less sure that they will make home consoles 10 years from now :(

Hmm...where should I begin? First off, the 360 is coming out in 11/05. Are you honestly suggesting that games 6 months after the system's release date are already going to be 3rd generation??? Second, the PS3 is going to be released around 04/06, so it'll have far more than just tons of playable demos at the '06 E3. Third, the E3 isn't the only convention the gaming industry shows off its products. There's the Tokyo Fair (Sept., I believe) as well as CES, among others. So everyone who has lost all hope for Nintendo needs to realize that they didn't HAVE to show all its final specs for the Revolution.

In regards to Sony, they HAD to show something this E3 because they won't have another opportunity to show off the PS3 until the Tokyo show. By then, Microsoft would have the majority of the momentum toward its November release. E3 provided the opportunity of killing this momentum and Tokyo will further the damage.

[neoelectronaut]

I'm more concerned about DS than the Revolution. The DS has been out for months, and still lacks a decent collection of first party titles. When are we going to get our hands on these new "innovative" titles that we've been promised such as Mario and Luigi 2, Animal Crossing, Mario Kart, Kirby and Legend of Zelda DS?

We have been seeing Animal Crossing DS screenshots since before the DS was announced. Where is the game? Nintendo now says it will ship in November in North America. It's been over a year, SHIP something.

Nintendo also announced that the DS will be able to take advantage of wireless networks to download items and play online with other players. Where is it? It's been months, and still no direct timeline for launch of the wireless service.

Also, where's the adaptor that allows DS owners to play videos and music on their systems?

Nintendo is the king of first-party titles on their systems. Super Mario 64 and WarioWare Touched are the only first-party titles worth purchasing. Does Nintendo really expect DS owners to just keep on waiting? Yoshi Touch & Go and Pokemon Dash are sorry excuses for launch titles.

On another note, What happened to Mario 128? Miyamoto said on G4 that he felt like he has done the public a diservice. That Mario 128 is not necessarily a game, but just a concept.

1) So you'd rather they rush out a ****** product than take their time and work on it. RIGHT. When I pay $30 for something I want to know I got my money's worth.

2) I dunno about you, but I buy videogame systems, to, you know, play GAMES. A videogame system isn't supposed to play videos or music. It's supposed to play goddamn games. That's the point.

[neoelectronaut]

however, a big reason why is because of RARE

Nintendo has gone DOWNHILL ever since Rare has left for Microsoft, and for some reason, Nintendo's own developers really haven't stepped up to the plate

I thought the GameCube was really pathetic - the N64 has better graphics and better gamplay

Hopefully, Nintendo will get those good software titles out, and maybe try and hire away former developers of RARE

1) Oh, of course, because you know, in the last 5 years RARE has done...what? Starfox Adventures and Grabbed by the Ghoulies. Yeah. We're sure missing out on alot. All of the good RARE talent has jumped ship. Mostly to free radical, the creators of the Timesplitters series.

2) The N64 has better graphics. Right. RIGHT. Go play The Wind Waker or hell, I dunno, LUIGI'S MANSION and tell me which graphics are better.

[neoelectronaut]

This whole "THE CARTRIDGE WAS A BAD CHOICE FOR THE N64! OH NOES" thing is just old.

Because we ALL know how much the cartridge format held back, oh, I dunno, Ocarina of Time, Goldeneye, Conker's Bad Fur Day, Super Mario 64, amongst others.

I can imagine how absolutely MUCH better the games would have been better on CD. Because, you know, FMV made everything so much damn better. Let's all watch our games instead of actually playing them.

[eva01]

All that matters is if you make a profit, and Nintendo easily makes a profit. They make games that have replay value as well, i still play orcarina of time (on GC). The only reason i bought a gameboy advance is because it had all the SNES games. I cannot wait for Animal Crossing DS to come out, it is going to be litterally one of the most amazing games ever. i haven't heard much about it at all, but i cannot wait for multiplayer AC

[neoelectronaut]

All that matters is if you make a profit, and Nintendo easily makes a profit. They make games that have replay value as well, i still play orcarina of time (on GC). The only reason i bought a gameboy advance is because it had all the SNES games. I cannot wait for Animal Crossing DS to come out, it is going to be litterally one of the most amazing games ever. i haven't heard much about it at all, but i cannot wait for multiplayer AC


Bingo. You hit the nail on the head. Everyone seems to think that Nintendo is six feet under right now. HA, I say, HA. even if the next three consoles they release flop, they have a few billion in the bank to save their asses, not to mention the popularity of the Gameboy line.

So in the end, even if Nintendo isn't super-popular, they're not going anywhere. They're still making a profit, unlike Sony and Microsoft (Which LOST money on their consoles, unless I'm mistaken) and that's all what really matters.

[Abstract]

Despite losing marketshare to the others, didn't Nintendo make the most profit? I mean, isn't that going to keep them alive in a business sense? ;)

I'm worried about Nintendo, but not that worried. They should have released screenshots. That wouldn't have given away any secrets. Who doesn't already know that they're coming out with another Mario game, right?

They could also show a few specs, like their processor and their video card and such. They don't have to give away all the performance numbers of these components, or screenshots that give away their big secret, but a taste....a teaser....of what's to come would have kept interest on them instead of Xbox and PS3.

[calyxman]

Okay, I can't take this anymore.

WHO THE HELL GODDAMN CARES IF THEY'RE IN THIRD PLACE ANYMORE.

They make quality products. Dare I say it...LIKE APPLE.

Apple is also in last place. That doesn't stop you from buying their stuff, does it?

Who the HELL cares about "WHO'S IN THE LEAD" anymore?

Ok, you can turn off the caps lock please. Now, I care that Nintendo gets their act together with this next round in the console fight. Many of us care.

And yet again someone makes the failed comparison between Nintendo and Apple. I'm not going to beat a dead horse. I've drawn the distinctions between the two.

Let me ask you this: do you think Nintendo said "who cares" when they got outdone by Playstation one? Do think Nintendo said "who cares" when PS2 was equally a great hit? Do you think Nintendo said "who cares" when Microsoft rode into the scene and rocked the marketplace in the US and Europe? Do think Nintendo said "who cares" when PSP hit the market place?

Or better yet, let's switch Nintendo with Sega. Sega was an innovative company, no doubt. Do you think Sega said "who cares" when their early success of the 16-bit Genesis fizzle into the failure of the 128-bit Dreamcast? Who cares?? Think about it.

This whole "THE CARTRIDGE WAS A BAD CHOICE FOR THE N64! OH NOES" thing is just old.

Because we ALL know how much the cartridge format held back, oh, I dunno, Ocarina of Time, Goldeneye, Conker's Bad Fur Day, Super Mario 64, amongst others.

I can imagine how absolutely MUCH better the games would have been better on CD. Because, you know, FMV made everything so much damn better. Let's all watch our games instead of actually playing them.

You're misinformed. With CDs you can utilize better sound quality, and longer and more detailed audio soundtracks which can enrich the gameplay. More capacity also equates to more levels, bigger worlds, more elaborate gameplay.

But to each his own. You might be happy playing Mario Bros. on NES all day, while others have grown out of that 15 years ago.


So in the end, even if Nintendo isn't super-popular, they're not going anywhere. They're still making a profit, unlike Sony and Microsoft (Which LOST money on their consoles, unless I'm mistaken) and that's all what really matters.

Microsoft is not going anywhere, they can buy Nintendo if they wanted, and Sony is going to remain a monster in this industry.

[neoelectronaut]

You're misinformed. With CDs you can utilize better sound quality, and longer and more detailed audio soundtracks which can enrich the gameplay. More capacity also equates to more levels, bigger worlds, more elaborate gameplay.

So you believe that...okay, let's use Ocarina of Time for example here. Do you believe that it being on a CD would have made it bigger? More elaborate? About the only thing I can give you is better sound, and that's even sort of a paper-thin arguement as Nintendo was unlikely to use an orchestra at the time anyway.

Edit: Also, I for one, wouldn't have really enjoyed Hyrule Field being broken up into chunks, with a 3 minute load time in between.

*Now Leaving Kokiri Forest...

*Now Loading....

*5 minutes pass

*Welcome to Hyrule Field.

Yeah, just wouldn't have been too much fun.

The same goes with Super Mario 64. Waiting a few minutes for a level to load after jumping through a painting wouldn't have been a barrel of fun.

[calyxman]

So you believe that...okay, let's use Ocarina of Time for example here. Do you believe that it being on a CD would have made it bigger? More elaborate? About the only thing I can give you is better sound, and that's even sort of a paper-thin arguement as Nintendo was unlikely to use an orchestra at the time anyway.

Ocarina of Time and Mario 64 were 100% performances coming from Nintendo, no doubt. Could they have been improved if Nintendo was afforded the ability to utilize 500-600 Mbs worth of space? Sure.

Looking at all this in context, you had a 32-bit system from a newcomer that ran on a double-speed CD drive turn into a hit while a not too distant competitor took a more technologically advanced system and gave it a cartridge slot. Have you ever noticed the expansion slot on the bottom of the 64? There were hints the 64DD would hit the US, but being that it did so poorly in Japan Nintendo scrapped it entirely for the US marketplace. It was only then they realized the screw up they made going with cartridges.

Plus cartridges are outright expensive to manufacture versus that thin plastic disc, also known as a CD. So doing the math, where do you think developers opted to go?

And if cartridges were so great then why did your beloved Ninendo opt for a proprietary gigabyte disc with the Game Cube? Why not just have a cartridge based Game Cube instead?

[neoelectronaut]

Ocarina of Time and Mario 64 were 100% performances coming from Nintendo, no doubt. Could they have been improved if Nintendo was afforded the ability to utilize 500-600 Mbs worth of space? Sure.

Looking at all this in context, you had a 32-bit system from a newcomer that ran on a double-speed CD drive turn into a hit while a not too distant competitor took a more technologically advanced system and gave it a cartridge slot. Have you ever noticed the expansion slot on the bottom of the 64? There were hints the 64DD would hit the US, but being that it did so poorly in Japan Nintendo scrapped it entirely for the US marketplace. It was only then they realized the screw up they made going with cartridges.

Plus cartridges are outright expensive to manufacture versus that thin plastic disc, also known as a CD. So doing the math, where do you think developers opted to go?

And if cartridges were so great then why did your beloved Ninendo opt for a proprietary gigabyte disc with the Game Cube? Why not just have a cartridge based Game Cube instead?

-I wouldn't quite call Sony a newcomer. Weren't they one of the first producers of Compact Disc players?

-Cartridges may be more expensive than CDs, but that didn't stop them from being more or less at similar prices. A PSX game would generally run you $50-$60 while a N64 game would be pretty close.

-I don't recall ever saying that Nintendo should have used Cartridges with the Gamecube, I think you're trying to put words in my mouth.

[slb]

Okay, I can't take this anymore.

WHO THE HELL GODDAMN CARES IF THEY'RE IN THIRD PLACE ANYMORE.

They make quality products. Dare I say it...LIKE APPLE.

Apple is also in last place. That doesn't stop you from buying their stuff, does it?

Who the HELL cares about "WHO'S IN THE LEAD" anymore?

I care, because if Nintendo is last place, that means nobody's writing games for it, which means eight more iterations of "Mario Party," "Wario Ware," and all the other endless spin-offs that Nintendo has resorted to which involve Mario in some way.

The Sony games aisle at my local store is twice as large as the X-Box section. The X-Box section is twice the size of the Gamecube section.

There's really no question that the Nintendo 64 should have used CDs. The lack of space forced the use of very low resolution, blurry textures and less content. The Playstation's games had entered the world of full multimedia and never looked back. Going to my friend's house to play PSX games was always a revelation. Then I had to come home and see blurry, blocky games on my Nintendo 64 that felt years behind, like SNES games that were merely being shown in 3D because they had to.

[ham_man]

I don't need big flashy shows to tell me what I want to here. When Nintendo releases the Revolution, I will know. I will make a good decision on what too buy. And if Nintendo manages to have a pretty decent price point on a pretty decent machine, which I am sure they will, I will buy it. Plus, if they have some killer titles like they have in the past years, that will be the nail in the coffin. I was even considering buying a GameCube just for Super Smash Bros., Zelda, Resident Evil, and Animal Crossing. Nintendo always has absolutely killer titles for its systems...

Now about that controller... ;)

[calyxman]

-I wouldn't quite call Sony a newcomer. Weren't they one of the first producers of Compact Disc players?

-Cartridges may be more expensive than CDs, but that didn't stop them from being more or less at similar prices. A PSX game would generally run you $50-$60 while a N64 game would be pretty close.

-I don't recall ever saying that Nintendo should have used Cartridges with the Gamecube, I think you're trying to put words in my mouth.

Newcomer as in, newcomers in the gaming industry. And to add irony to the matter, the Playstation could have very well beared the Nintendo logo, had Nintendo stuck with Sony on their joint venture of developing a CD based system.

Cartridges were even less attractive to developers as they wanted wanted minimal costs when producing a game. It was bad enough they had to deal with Nintendo's licensing fees.

And my question regarding the Game Cube using cartridges was a rhetorical one. I wasn't putting words in your mouth. You made it seem as if cartridges were a better choice for Nintendo. All I simply asked was, why didn't they use cartridges on the Game Cube then.

[ham_man]

I care, because if Nintendo is last place, that means nobody's writing games for it, which means eight more iterations of "Mario Party," "Wario Ware," and all the other endless spin-offs that Nintendo has resorted to which involve Mario in some way.

The Sony games aisle at my local store is twice as large as the X-Box section. The X-Box section is twice the size of the Gamecube section.
Ever heard the old saying Quality over Quantity? While the Xbox and PS2 do have some nice games, they also have alot of crap. Don't compare based on numbers...

Oh, and I love Mario. I went out and bought a Gameboy Pocket just so I could play Super Mario Land (best game ever IMHO), retro style...

[calyxman]

Ever heard the old saying Quality over Quantity? While the Xbox and PS2 do have some nice games, they also have alot of crap. Don't compare based on numbers...

Oh, and I love Mario. I went out and bought a Gameboy Pocket just so I could play Super Mario Land (best game ever IMHO), retro style...

Yeah, well all systems will have crap. N64 had the most crap. But then again, if the marketplace is so in love with Playstation, then I guess gamers are in love with crap. :rolleyes:

[iQuit]

Nintendo is not necissarily "failing",but they are doing bad compared to the other companies. Nintendo has a fairly large dedicated fanbase that would do anything to buy a new Zelda or 1st party game from them. Nintendo's fanbase is of a younger audience and they are afraid that if they aim towards an older crowd the older crowd won't buy it and then the younger crowd is gone....and then they go out of business. I think Nintendo has good hardware but not good software. I just buy whatever I like and consolewise MS has won my heart,they are amazing. The Revolution is infact a piece of crap though.

[slb]

Ever heard the old saying Quality over Quantity? While the Xbox and PS2 do have some nice games, they also have alot of crap. Don't compare based on numbers...

But they also have a lot of good stuff, and a lot more choice. There were more good games for the Playstation 1 then there were good games that came out for the Nintendo 64.

I get the feeling some people are willing to defend Nintendo to its very death. Even Nintendo has acknowledged its past mistakes. And I'm an old-school Nintendo guy--22 years old and played Nintendo during its heyday. Super Mario Bros. 3 is my favorite game of all time. But I still noticed all the mistakes Nintendo made in the 90s.

[ifjake]

the more i think about it, i just become more interested at nintendo's move not to play all their cards up front. nintendo as a company really has a different gaming philosophy than Sony and Microsoft. some people call it as one side targets a more mature audience than the other, and i understand how this can be seen. nintendo is not pursuing graphical extremes or the most processing power, maybe their not even pursuing realism. that doesn't seem to be their main goal. i must admit the more i hear about XDR RAM or how many cores this one has over the other or whatever, the more i am intrigued at nintendo's choice not to follow suit. maybe this is just the nintendo fanboy i suspect is slowing growing in me, but all in all, after seeing a few videos online, reading a few reports, checking out what went on, for some reason i am much more curious about nintendo's future plans than anyone else's. it's quite fascinating how it ended up that way.

(for note, i have never really owned a console, but have mooched off of all my gracious and generous friends over the years. thank you all). :o

[iQuit]

The only true competitors of the moment are Sony and MS. I think Apple should get into the market though,they would own. I would love to be playing a game on a glossy white iGame.

[slb]

Nintendo is not necissarily "failing",but they are doing bad compared to the other companies. Nintendo has a fairly large dedicated fanbase that would do anything to buy a new Zelda or 1st party game from them. Nintendo's fanbase is of a younger audience and they are afraid that if they aim towards an older crowd the older crowd won't buy it and then the younger crowd is gone....and then they go out of business.

Actually, Nintendo's president has stated that Sony and Microsoft are now targetting the high-end, hardcore gamers. Reading that, I thought to myself, wow, that's true. Playstation 3 is a total hardcore gamer system, as is X-Box 360 and its interchangeable faceplates (snicker) and everything. PS3 is going to cost upwards of $450!

Nintendo's president said they are choosing to target everybody this time--hardcore, casual, and even non-gamers. It is statements like this that give me a little bit of hope regarding the Revolution, which obviously hasn't fully been revealed yet given Miyamoto's recent statements in an interview on IGN. There's been a lot of talk about the simplicity of the interface--Nintendo has recognized that games are getting too complex to play, requiring the use of too many buttons and combinations to remember. You can't sit down and pick up a game anymore. This is part of why Gameboy is so popular; it still utilizes that wonderful simplicity. Apparently, the new input system will be simple, natural, and fun, and Nintendo is planning to target the whole market and not just the high-end like the other two are. This strategy has worked for the Gameboy and the Nintendo DS, so it will be interesting to see what happens. Revolution may even win out on price alone.

Nintendo is right about a lot of things. The Playstation 3 looks like a complete hardcore gaming system. Its targetted at the hardcore types. X-Box 360 is as well. There's a big market being ignored by those guys, and if Nintendo can capture it in a way the Gamecube never did, they'll have a success story on their hands.

I miss when Nintendo was an 800lb gorilla. Here's hoping it happens again. It's almost like the world doesn't make sense when Nintendo isn't #1. :)

[Macamus Prime]

I hope the Revolution really does blow us all away. If Nintendo being tight lipped is due to them sitting on pure gaming gold - more power to them.

If they release something that gets a luke warm response - God help them.

The Revolution has built up a lot of steam. At this point, no. Nintendo did not blow it. They have built more suspense and anticipation for their next gen console. I hope and want them to deliver.

[wrldwzrd89]

Everyone seems to be discussing why Nintendo opted to use proprietary ~1GB mini DVDs for the GameCube. I happen to know the reasons why, so I thought I'd settle this one:

1. Most importantly, it's a form of anti-piracy. Make the disc format proprietary; defeat the pirates until they can figure out how to read and copy your discs.
2. Having a smaller disc means lower seek times, and therefore much shorter load times.
3. Smaller disc = smaller console.

[mac4drew]

Nintendo is right about a lot of things. The Playstation 3 looks like a complete hardcore gaming system. Its targetted at the hardcore types. X-Box 360 is as well. There's a big market being ignored by those guys, and if Nintendo can capture it in a way the Gamecube never did, they'll have a success story on their hands.

I totally agree. I remember when I was quite a bit younger and I got my first Game Boy, even my parents played Tetris on it. There are very few video games avaliable today that my parents woule even consider playing, the Xbox makes my mom dizzy and my dad never finds the time. If Nintendo starts to reach out to people like them with a simple controller and games that they could be more accustomed to, there's no telling what could happen.


I think that even with how little Nintendo has released technically and screenshot wise, they have already told us a great deal about their marketing strategy, because it's a strategy that's uncopyable. Nintendo has a history, a past to learn from, and no one else does. It's that simple.

[takao]

Third, the E3 isn't the only convention the gaming industry shows off its products. There's the Tokyo Fair (Sept., I believe) as well as CES, among others. So everyone who has lost all hope for Nintendo needs to realize that they didn't HAVE to show all its final specs for the Revolution.

add the german "Games Convention" (17-21 august i think) to the list ... perhaps to early for lot's of information about the revolution but somehow nintendo managed to get the biggest booth from all companies so i'm sure they will show a lot of stuff ... one of the most important ones in europe

i've got already my ticket ... perhaps we get to see more there (at least i hope so ;))

[jaw04005]

Everyone seems to be discussing why Nintendo opted to use proprietary ~1GB mini DVDs for the GameCube. I happen to know the reasons why, so I thought I'd settle this one:

1. Most importantly, it's a form of anti-piracy. Make the disc format proprietary; defeat the pirates until they can figure out how to read and copy your discs.
2. Having a smaller disc means lower seek times, and therefore much shorter load times.
3. Smaller disc = smaller console.

I agree with you. How many GameCube emulators are available? Practically none. How many PS emulators are available? Many.

The smaller DVD disc practically prevented piracy on the Nintendo GameCube. However, all copy protection will be eventually cracked. Some is just better than others.

[Mr. Anderson]

I don't think they can actually blow it until they deliver. When the Revolution shows up, all this resentment might just go away, replaced by "I must have one of those things now!"

Hype is hype, and MS and Sony have played that hand and have to now deliver.

[GFLPraxis]

Ever heard the old saying Quality over Quantity? While the Xbox and PS2 do have some nice games, they also have alot of crap. Don't compare based on numbers...

Oh, and I love Mario. I went out and bought a Gameboy Pocket just so I could play Super Mario Land (best game ever IMHO), retro style...

True but it sucks to have 20 GameCube games and have to go buy a PS2 JUST for Burnout 3 and Star Wars Episode 3...*drools*

I am so angry with LucasArts right now. First KOTOR, now Ep3.

They should have released screenshots. That wouldn't have given away any secrets. Who doesn't already know that they're coming out with another Mario game, right?

Fully agree. Ingame Metroid and Mario shots. Perhaps a still shot of Super Smash Bros Online.

[GFLPraxis]

So you believe that...okay, let's use Ocarina of Time for example here. Do you believe that it being on a CD would have made it bigger? More elaborate? About the only thing I can give you is better sound, and that's even sort of a paper-thin arguement as Nintendo was unlikely to use an orchestra at the time anyway.

Edit: Also, I for one, wouldn't have really enjoyed Hyrule Field being broken up into chunks, with a 3 minute load time in between.

*Now Leaving Kokiri Forest...

*Now Loading....

*5 minutes pass

*Welcome to Hyrule Field.

Yeah, just wouldn't have been too much fun.

The same goes with Super Mario 64. Waiting a few minutes for a level to load after jumping through a painting wouldn't have been a barrel of fun.

I've got to point out, Nintendo did a BRILLIANT job of fixing this on the GameCube. I don't know how they did it (do minidisks load faster?) but I have NEVER seen a loading screen on a Nintendo first party game that I can think of. Wind Waker was seamless.


Everyone seems to be discussing why Nintendo opted to use proprietary ~1GB mini DVDs for the GameCube. I happen to know the reasons why, so I thought I'd settle this one:

1. Most importantly, it's a form of anti-piracy. Make the disc format proprietary; defeat the pirates until they can figure out how to read and copy your discs.
2. Having a smaller disc means lower seek times, and therefore much shorter load times.
3. Smaller disc = smaller console.

Right, THAT'S why it loaded so fast. Yup.

BTW, it was 1.6 GB.


An idea I had after some quick math. Consider this.

4.6/1.6 = 2.875, I'll round to 3.

GameCube disks fit 1/3rd that of DVD's.

So what about a mini HD-DVD?

Single layer HD-DVD = 15 GB, mini HD-DVD = 5 GB.

We have tri-layer HD-DVD's.

Tri-layer mini HD-DVD = 15 GB. On a minidisk. With lower seek times.


While we know it'll take big disks, I would love to see publishers shipping minidisks for the Revolution on HD-DVD's (assuming Rev uses HD-DVD, which I hope). Nintendo could have minidisks that fit twice as much as full sized X360 disks. That'd be hilarious. And they'd retain faster load times.

Though they'll probably be full sized. Ah well.

[takao]

I've got to point out, Nintendo did a BRILLIANT job of fixing this on the GameCube. I don't know how they did it (do minidisks load faster?) but I have NEVER seen a loading screen on a Nintendo first party game that I can think of. Wind Waker was seamless.

i think they worked around most of the loading with pretty clever an sophisticated caching and pre-loading textures ... or they use animations while loading is done in the background like they did in mario sunshine

edit: about the data discs for revolution
so far they are called "12 cm optical discs" nothing more so they could either their own hd like ones or or perhaps simply dvds or something else..perhaps it's not even determined yet

[kuyu]

edit: about the data discs for revolution
so far they are called "12 cm optical discs" nothing more so they could either their own hd like ones or or perhaps simply dvds or something else..perhaps it's not even determined yet

On this front, I wouldn't be suprised to see the revolution use RW discs. Just leave a few hundred megs for game saves, and you've got the best of both worlds.

[takao]

On this front, I wouldn't be suprised to see the revolution use RW discs. Just leave a few hundred megs for game saves, and you've got the best of both worlds.

i doubt that they already are planning with 512 internal flash memory have an sd card slot in the front where you can store additional savegames and download content (according to IGN)

a 3 rd possability seems unlikely especially with something like RW optical discs

[GFLPraxis]

i think they worked around most of the loading with pretty clever an sophisticated caching and pre-loading textures ... or they use animations while loading is done in the background like they did in mario sunshine

edit: about the data discs for revolution
so far they are called "12 cm optical discs" nothing more so they could either their own hd like ones or or perhaps simply dvds or something else..perhaps it's not even determined yet

Nintendo told us already that it accepts both full sized 12 cm disks, and GameCube minidisks, so we know it can still take mini disks.

I'm assuming/hoping Ninty goes HD-DVD. Blu-ray seems unlikely because Sony is head of the Blu-ray camp. HD-DVD is much cheaper anyway, Nintendo prefers the lower price. But DVD would be too low priced, because there wouldn't be any improvement over the previous generation consoles.

[jaseone]

Most people posting in this thread about Nintendo's imposing doom fall right into the PS3's and Xbox360's target market, I bet most of you also play the keeping up with the Jones's game on your PC's as well continually upgrading so you can play the latest and greatest first person shooter.

Like someone else hinted in this thread already, Nintendo games are great for all ages, heck it was my grandparents that first introduced me to the NES back in the day... Super Mario Bros, Legend of Zelda, Metroid and Adventures of Lolo, those were the days! My grandparents still to this day play their NES and SNES but if they try watching us playing any of the newer games it is just too much for them and wouldn't have a hope of playing them.

Just because Nintendo hasn't announced details of the Revolution at E3 means nothing to Joe Sixpack, they would be like E what? For all you people that eagerly watched and read everything about E3 I have news for you, you are NOT the majority of the gaming market and you can post all the theories you want based on your opinion but you are doing so from a completely wrong point of view.

Once people wake up and stop having small member syndrome then you realize just how much of a company shill you have become and how much hype you fall victim to. I know I certainly used to be like that and still am to a certain extent with falling victim to the PSP hype, as the PSP has now been replaced with my trusty DS as my handheld of choice.

*yawn* Wake me when Sony and Microsoft start making profits selling their consoles...

[calyxman]

I've got to point out, Nintendo did a BRILLIANT job of fixing this on the GameCube. I don't know how they did it (do minidisks load faster?) but I have NEVER seen a loading screen on a Nintendo first party game that I can think of. Wind Waker was seamless.




Right, THAT'S why it loaded so fast. Yup.

BTW, it was 1.6 GB.


An idea I had after some quick math. Consider this.

4.6/1.6 = 2.875, I'll round to 3.

GameCube disks fit 1/3rd that of DVD's.

So what about a mini HD-DVD?

Single layer HD-DVD = 15 GB, mini HD-DVD = 5 GB.

We have tri-layer HD-DVD's.

Tri-layer mini HD-DVD = 15 GB. On a minidisk. With lower seek times.


While we know it'll take big disks, I would love to see publishers shipping minidisks for the Revolution on HD-DVD's (assuming Rev uses HD-DVD, which I hope). Nintendo could have minidisks that fit twice as much as full sized X360 disks. That'd be hilarious. And they'd retain faster load times.

Though they'll probably be full sized. Ah well.

The gigabit proprietary media disc was somewht of a good idea, it definitely affords much more storage than a cartridge with minimal load times. Who knows, maybe if Nintendo had incorporated a similar concept of a mini CD-based system on the N64, it would have sold much better and would have had a better library of games.

I think Sony is definitely on the right track going with Blu-ray, just like Apple is too.

[kuyu]

Although I think Nintendo screwed up by not showing ONE screenshot, their other offerings were incredible.

Zelda looks amazing, and the DS line up for this year...
Mario Kart DS Online
Animal Crossing Online
Lost in Blue
Trace Memory
New Super Mario Brothers
Mario & Luigi 2
Viewtiful Joe DS
Black & White Creatures
Age of Empires
and perhaps the coolest DS revalation: VOIP!!! Trash talk on the go!

I was beginning to regret my DS purchase, but with this lineup I'm sooo glad I went with the DS over the PSP (no disrespect to PSP owners, you have a very cool system too).

[GFLPraxis]

Although I think Nintendo screwed up by not showing ONE screenshot, their other offerings were incredible.

Zelda looks amazing, and the DS line up for this year...
Mario Kart DS Online
Animal Crossing Online
Lost in Blue
Trace Memory
New Super Mario Brothers
Mario & Luigi 2
Viewtiful Joe DS
Black & White Creatures
Age of Empires
and perhaps the coolest DS revalation: VOIP!!! Trash talk on the go!

I was beginning to regret my DS purchase, but with this lineup I'm sooo glad I went with the DS over the PSP (no disrespect to PSP owners, you have a very cool system too).

I'm super excited about online DS games, but where did you hear VoIP? Link? You've just got me excited :D

[7on]

You know when I went to nintendo.com and saw their headline over the Revolution I started shaking. This is the first console I've wanted in a long time (bought the gamecube last summer when I saw leaked screenshots of the new Zelda). Anyway, if I play Halo 1 for like an hour my vision is blurry and I feel all nauseous. However, take a game like Wind Waker (which I haven't played since this past week because I discredited it for the graphics) I played it full time this entire week and hasn't made me sick. Granted I love playing a spot of Halo, but I can only play in spurts.

Another thing, Wind Waker was awesome - I felt it took the best from Oot and LttP and rolled them into one.

Nintendo's only bad move, IMO, was not doing everything possible to keep their 3rd party exclusives. Square is dabbing once again in the Nintendo pool with another Crystal Chronicle game for the Rev. Nintendo needs to bring back what it used to defeat the GameGear. No, I'm not talking about a grey and yellow non-backlight system - developers.

IMO, Nintendo hasn't really lost that much of the market, it's just that the market has grown so much over the past 8 years.

....And Nintendo prolly will have another E3 before their console ships.

And reading that list of DS titles makes me want a DS now :( Saddly no money and lack of GBC support saddens me. I may look into bringing back my GBA though. And I could sell some old stuff... like Golden Sun :rolleyes:

EDIT: oh and this
http://media.nintendo.com/mediaFiles/4c0138db-4f43-4e02-9845-9e8db185272f.jpg

[kuyu]

I'm super excited about online DS games, but where did you hear VoIP? Link? You've just got me excited :D

Ask and you shall receive...
http://www.gamespot.com/news/2004/08/31/news_6106106.html

EDIT: just realized that this is an old link. There was a working demo at e3!!!

[NaMo4184]

My family has owned just about every system that has come out and every nintendo system with out exception.

When nintendo 64 came out i liked it a lot in fact i think it came out with some of the most revolutionary games ever. Games like zelda orcale of time, mario 64, and golden eye where so great its mind boggling.

From what i remember when i played the older systems was this. The problem with 64 was that i could not play my cds on it. And the games Cost more than other systems.

The problem with game cube is that i can't play my dvds on it and it lacks 3rd party support. Even if nintento focuses on more kiddy games it wouldn't matter to me if i could play the third party games on it.

In order for game revolution to sell it must be able to play at the very minimum dvds and also have 3rd party support. If it has reasonable graphics and reasonable graphics i think it could beat out xbox.

I think sony would be making a huge mistake my not trying to ensure that xbox 360 and revolution both use blue ray. It would be different if people actually owned blue ray movies but nobody does. Sony needs to knock out HD-DVD and can only do that if everyone feels like blue ray is a better buy with more support. if all 3 game consoles supported blue ray they would be much closer to making blue ray the new standard of HD media. Also i should ada that this time around blue ray will not give them that much of and edge over the competition like having dvd support has for them against game cube. Just looking at it from a business prospective wouldn't sony make a lot more money if blue ray can become the standard format.

my .02

[wrldwzrd89]

My family has owned just about every system that has come out and every nintendo system with out exception.

When nintendo 64 came out i liked it a lot in fact i think it came out with some of the most revolutionary games ever. Games like zelda orcale of time, mario 64, and golden eye where so great its mind boggling.

From what i remember when i played the older systems was this. The problem with 64 was that i could not play my cds on it. And the games Cost more than other systems.

The problem with game cube is that i can't play my dvds on it and it lacks 3rd party support. Even if nintento focuses on more kiddy games it wouldn't matter to me if i could play the third party games on it.

In order for game revolution to sell it must be able to play at the very minimum dvds and also have 3rd party support. If it has reasonable graphics and reasonable graphics i think it could beat out xbox.

I think sony would be making a huge mistake my not trying to ensure that xbox 360 and revolution both use blue ray. It would be different if people actually owned blue ray movies but nobody does. Sony needs to knock out HD-DVD and can only do that if everyone feels like blue ray is a better buy with more support. if all 3 game consoles supported blue ray they would be much closer to making blue ray the new standard of HD media. Also i should ada that this time around blue ray will not give them that much of and edge over the competition like having dvd support has for them against game cube. Just looking at it from a business prospective wouldn't sony make a lot more money if blue ray can become the standard format.

my .02
You made some good points, most of which I agree with. However, it seems that Nintendo prefers dedicated game systems over combination game consoles/media centers (such as the PS2 and Xbox) - I therefore think that Nintendo is unlikely to implement DVD playback in the Revolution.

[GFLPraxis]

Ask and you shall receive...
http://www.gamespot.com/news/2004/08/31/news_6106106.html

EDIT: just realized that this is an old link. There was a working demo at e3!!!

There was a working demo? You sure?
I remember seeing that article before the DS came out in '04, but I thought it just turned out to be speculation.

[GFLPraxis]

My family has owned just about every system that has come out and every nintendo system with out exception.

When nintendo 64 came out i liked it a lot in fact i think it came out with some of the most revolutionary games ever. Games like zelda orcale of time, mario 64, and golden eye where so great its mind boggling.

From what i remember when i played the older systems was this. The problem with 64 was that i could not play my cds on it. And the games Cost more than other systems.

The problem with game cube is that i can't play my dvds on it and it lacks 3rd party support. Even if nintento focuses on more kiddy games it wouldn't matter to me if i could play the third party games on it.

In order for game revolution to sell it must be able to play at the very minimum dvds and also have 3rd party support. If it has reasonable graphics and reasonable graphics i think it could beat out xbox.

I think sony would be making a huge mistake my not trying to ensure that xbox 360 and revolution both use blue ray. It would be different if people actually owned blue ray movies but nobody does. Sony needs to knock out HD-DVD and can only do that if everyone feels like blue ray is a better buy with more support. if all 3 game consoles supported blue ray they would be much closer to making blue ray the new standard of HD media. Also i should ada that this time around blue ray will not give them that much of and edge over the competition like having dvd support has for them against game cube. Just looking at it from a business prospective wouldn't sony make a lot more money if blue ray can become the standard format.

my .02


Very good point! I always assumed Ninty would go HD-DVD if they went next gen, but your reasoning is sound.

Without exception? Out of curiousity...did you ever get a Virtual Boy?

Sadly, I have never even seen a VB in real life, so I can't claim to have every Nintendo system ever released :(

[GFLPraxis]

You made some good points, most of which I agree with. However, it seems that Nintendo prefers dedicated game systems over combination game consoles/media centers (such as the PS2 and Xbox) - I therefore think that Nintendo is unlikely to implement DVD playback in the Revolution.

Actually- Nintendo has already announced DVD playback for the Revolution.

[calyxman]

You know back when the Playstation 2 first came out, I remember the guys over at IGN who did Nintendo's coverage were citing the fact that most people buying the PS2 were only doing so for the DVD playback capability. They pointed out to an early study which indicated that while the console sold briskly, the games weren't moving at a normal pace, hinting that consumers may have been exploiting the PS2 only for its movie-playing capability over its gaming capability. It was no surprise, then, that the guys at IGN (Matt included) concluded that the PS2 would suffer and that Nintendo's strategy was the proper one in making the Gamecube a dedicated gaming machine.

Flashforward 3-4 years to today, and you'll see that while the Gamecube has done well and made Nintendo money, it was once again upstaged by Sony's PS2 and even MS's Xbox in the US market and Europe.

Now, I wouldn't go insofar as to say that Sony is on the wrong side of a bet with the adoption of Blu-ray. If that were the case, then the folks at Apple would be making the same mistake. Who would think Apple would make a poor judgment when it comes to choosing the future of High Definition? Apple was early adopter of USB, many that they were off their rocker. Apple now is the first computer manufacturer to support Bluetooth 2.0. And now, Apple is now putting its chips towards Blu-ray.

So to me, the question really is, which manufacturer wants to move forward? There's no doubt Sony is taking a big--and maybe even risky--step, and I applaud them for that. As for Microsoft, Ballmer has already noted that nothing is even official yet with the Xbox. So who knows, we might be seeing a shift from standard DVDs to HD DVDs or Blu-ray. But it seems that, once again, Nintendo is opting for something proprietary and limited in capacity, and they're maitaining the narrow strategy of designing a machine exclusively for gaming. The online play does fix upon an error with the current generation of gaming for them, but with every new generation, I think the gamers and consumers will only be demanding more.

Long story short, I think it's crucial Nintendo incorporates some cross functionality if the company doesn't want a repeat of the previous generation's battle.

[kuyu]

There was a working demo? You sure?
I remember seeing that article before the DS came out in '04, but I thought it just turned out to be speculation.

Ask and you sha.. actually, it sounds corny'er this time ;)

http://www.joystiq.com/entry/1234000383044065/

Joystiq is a great blog. Worth checking everyday.

[shadowguy]

But it seems that, once again, Nintendo is opting for something proprietary and limited in capacity,

WHAT?!?!? Nintendo said that the Revolution is gonna use STANDARD 12cm dual-layer DVD's. Thats how it is able to play movies.

[calyxman]

WHAT?!?!? Nintendo said that the Revolution is gonna use STANDARD 12cm dual-layer DVD's. Thats how it is able to play movies.

Yeah, thanks for the correction. Standard DVDs. No word on whether that's final, though.

[alxths]

WHAT?!?!? Nintendo said that the Revolution is gonna use STANDARD 12cm dual-layer DVD's. Thats how it is able to play movies.

I thought they were no more specific than saying that they would use "12 cm disks."

[calyxman]

From Nintendo.com (http://www.nintendo.com/newsarticle?articleid=02ea1a40-ac09-4cdf-9548-91e5a4e78746&page=home)
Two disc formats, one slot: Instead of a tray, a single, innovative, self-loading media bay will play both 12-centimeter optical discs used for the new system as well as Nintendo GameCube discs. Owners will have the option of equipping a small, self-contained attachment to play movies and other DVD content.

Small attachment to play movies? Something is not clear here. :confused:

[7on]

Small attachment to play movies? Something is not clear here. :confused:

Prolly an MPEG2 decoder card/chip that is internally installed much like the network broadband adapter is installed on the current GCN.

Nintendo prolly saves money by not bundling it with the console's GPU thus making those looking for just a game machine coming in slightly cheaper. And if it's anything like the network adapter then installation should be a breeze (it could even be like the N64 RAM boosting chip's installation).

[GFLPraxis]

I thought they were no more specific than saying that they would use "12 cm disks."

I believe they said it would use 12 cm disks and play standard DVD's. It's easy to confuse that and think it said that it uses standard DVD's. In reality, it COULD mean they use standard DVD's, OR they could just be using a backwards compatible HD-DVD drive. Like you said, very vague and nonspecific.

[Yvan256]

Sure, they do.

That is why they took an overwhelming lead in the console industry (NES) and ran it into the ground.

The Gamecube was a flop, really. Though, it was heavily popular with kids...since that is what Nintendo specializes in with consoles these days (There was serious talk by several major retailers to stop carrying it all together).

Don't believe the FUD. The Gamecube was FAR from a flop. It was close 3rd to the Xbox in america, but was actually second world-wide (and the Xbox really flopped in Japan).

Sure, Nintendo has lots of kids games: Mario, Donkey Kong, Pokémon. But there's also the fact that only Nintendo can deliver Zelda and Metroid games, which a lot of grown-ups like to play. Besides, there's nothing that stops adults from playing "kids games". I say: If it's fun, play it!

So far, the Xbox360 doesn't look more impressive than the first Xbox (sure, the graphics are a bit better), the PS3 seems to have kick-ass graphics but still the exact same controller (aside from the general shape, which is still basically the same anyway). If Killzone 2 is indeed that good-looking, it'll still be a PITA to play it with a stupid gamepad.

I know I'm getting a Nintendo Revolution, no matter what the specs are. The only times Nintendo has let me down was with the Virtual Boy (good idea, bad implementation) and the Nintendo 64 (too low-resolution, gives me a headache).

[7on]

Don't believe the FUD. The Gamecube was FAR from a flop. It was close 3rd to the Xbox in america, but was actually second world-wide (and the Xbox really flopped in Japan).

Sure, Nintendo has lots of kids games: Mario, Donkey Kong, Pokémon. But there's also the fact that only Nintendo can deliver Zelda and Metroid games, which a lot of grown-ups like to play. Besides, there's nothing that stops adults from playing "kids games". I say: If it's fun, play it!

So far, the Xbox360 doesn't look more impressive than the first Xbox (sure, the graphics are a bit better), the PS3 seems to have kick-ass graphics but still the exact same controller (aside from the general shape, which is still basically the same anyway). If Killzone 2 is indeed that good-looking, it'll still be a PITA to play it with a stupid gamepad.

I know I'm getting a Nintendo Revolution, no matter what the specs are. The only times Nintendo has let me down was with the Virtual Boy (good idea, bad implementation) and the Nintendo 64 (too low-resolution, gives me a headache).


Yeah, I know I'm getting a Rev too. And I have already started a list of old games I'll be downloading as well. Every Zelda game for instance, Crusin' USA, SSB, Mario RPG, Mario World, Star Tropics (best game ever IMO - NES btw), and perhaps a few others as I think of them.

[ScottDodson]

Final Fantasy is a friggen piece of crap game. "hey let me attack you, then LET you attack me" If i were to get into an actual fight with someone, do i say "oh its your turn to hit me" hell no i curb their ass. final fantasy is a pathetic game, always has been always will be


Yeah, a franchise that can create 16 different games, sell 32 million copies, and have the #1 selling game in Japan (not to mention counless other assest in movies, toys, clothing, etc.) is a piece of crap, I apologize. What are all those people thinking? I guess it became one of the most popular franchises in video game history by accident :( We've been duped...

[takao]

Yeah, I know I'm getting a Rev too. And I have already started a list of old games I'll be downloading as well. Every Zelda game for instance, Crusin' USA, SSB, Mario RPG, Mario World, Star Tropics (best game ever IMO - NES btw), and perhaps a few others as I think of them.


oh you can be assured that at least 1 other macrumors member is sitting at home chanting the names of games he couldn't afford or wasn't able to get his hands on ;)

boy i really hope that they are either free (at least some of them) or cheap and buyable without credit card

i hope the revolution will have an normal ethernet connector as well and not only wireless ... i've got some slots left on my switch ;)

[wrldwzrd89]

oh you can be assured that at least 1 other macrumors member is sitting at home chanting the names of games he couldn't afford or wasn't able to get his hands on ;)

boy i really hope that they are either free (at least some of them) or cheap and buyable without credit card

i hope the revolution will have an normal ethernet connector as well and not only wireless ... i've got some slots left on my switch ;)
Nintendo wouldn't be that foolish to offer wireless only. I'm 99% sure they'll include Ethernet connectivity.

[MrSugar]

Nintendo wouldn't be that foolish to offer wireless only. I'm 99% sure they'll include Ethernet connectivity.

Let's hope so. The way it sounds, and from the article on IGN there is no ethernet port on the back. I really really hope they get one on there by the time they are ready to role. I like wireless but sometimes it's nice to just be able to plug in and watch it go.

Btw, I too will be buying a revolution. Nintendo is the best console when you just want to sit back and have some fun.

=-)

[wrldwzrd89]

Let's hope so. The way it sounds, and from the article on IGN there is no ethernet port on the back. I really really hope they get one on there by the time they are ready to role. I like wireless but sometimes it's nice to just be able to plug in and watch it go.

Btw, I too will be buying a revolution. Nintendo is the best console when you just want to sit back and have some fun.

=-)
The GameCube was that way too - Ethernet was offered via an expansion device. I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo did the same thing for the Revolution.

[Dagless]

hmm... Final Fantasy... i know what you mean about the fighting system and how strange it is. sure its strategy, but for a console that relies on 'non kiddy games' aka. realistic games... it just seems ironic.

only reason i like it is because its damn simple to make :P and requires little animation! snazzy!

[Jeromie]

Prolly an MPEG2 decoder card/chip that is internally installed much like the network broadband adapter is installed on the current GCN.

Nintendo prolly saves money by not bundling it with the console's GPU thus making those looking for just a game machine coming in slightly cheaper. And if it's anything like the network adapter then installation should be a breeze (it could even be like the N64 RAM boosting chip's installation).


I doubt including an mpeg decoder would have any significant effect on the price of the console from a hardware perspective. At the scale Nintendo would be purchasing them, they would be dirt cheap. However, there is apparantly some licensing fee required for any device sold with DVD playback capability. By making the DVD playback require an extra attachment, Nintendo saves this fee and doesn't have to pass it on to consumers. They are undoubtedly going for a (relatively) inexpensive and profitable console once again.

[Dagless]

i dont know why Nintendo are doing this accessory to watch DVD's thing. maybe its like the Xbox... to watch a DVD properly you need to buy a remote control. sure they're only 70p worth of plastic but charging £15 or whatever makes them profit. i am very surprised to see Nintendo using the same dirty tricks, its not very nintendo-like at all.

my guess is that in the end, what like 18 months into the future when the Rev will be launched, DVDs will play fine on them. << just a guess

alas, i already have a DVD player in my room. infact every TV in my house has a DVD player hooked up to it so the DVD side to the Rev dosnt effect me at all.

[eva01]

who cares if it has an added attachment for a DVD it brings down the price of the system itself.

we have 6 DVD players in our house so why the hell would i want to pay an extra 20-30 dollars on the system just because it gets a DVD drive in it

[cubist]

AFAIAC, they didn't blow it. After seeing all the Xbox360, PS3 and Revo announcements, we've cancelled our plans to get a PS3, and I'm collecting up cash to get a couple of GBA SPs and a GC (with GP) in the interim.

[SurfAddict]

All I know is that I started playing my gamecube again and I started Mario Sunshine and that game is friggin fun so far minus the red coins pirate ship thingy. And I still have metroid prime, resident evil, and the wind waker that I own and never really played that much to beat. I forgot how good nintendo is at games because I'm really not a platformer fan and I'm having a ton of fun with sunshine

[ijimk]

who cares if it has an added attachment for a DVD it brings down the price of the system itself.

we have 6 DVD players in our house so why the hell would i want to pay an extra 20-30 dollars on the system just because it gets a DVD drive in it

i agree within the recent year or two dvd player prices have dropped significantly. i think it was more of a big deal with the ps2 because it was such a new technology then, but now it is just standard. :cool:

[ijimk]

All I know is that I started playing my gamecube again and I started Mario Sunshine and that game is friggin fun so far minus the red coins pirate ship thingy. And I still have metroid prime, resident evil, and the wind waker that I own and never really played that much to beat. I forgot how good nintendo is at games because I'm really not a platformer fan and I'm having a ton of fun with sunshine

this is similar to my current situation. i recently got an itch to play wind waker. i played before but have never beat it. my goal is to beat it before twilight princess is released. I also loaded up Ocarina of Time on my Gamecube and i still think the graphics are amazing see how it is a little dated. That is one of my favorite games of all time, god i hope the new zelda live up to Ocarina of Time. :)

[OnaMacSince1989]

I'm very excited about the ability to download NES and N64 games, as well as (hopefully) Nintendo's arcade games. Having all my favorite games on one system is a dream come true! I hope the older titles are free or nearly free to download. No way would I be willing to pay $5-$10 each for the older games. (They were down right crazy thinking I'd pay $15-$20 for single classic NES games on the Gameboy! That's a big Hell No!)

The Revolution's drive is supposed to have the ability to play both the small GC discs and full size 'DVD' discs without an adapter (nice!). I do want the wireless WiFi and controllers, but don't need the standard console to play DVD movies or music or show pictures. Those features would be nice as add ons for those who want them. If they can undercut MS and Sony by $100 or better per standard system, the Revolution should score big!

[benpatient]

Who the HELL cares about "WHO'S IN THE LEAD" anymore?

Sega's famous last words.

[Phobophobia]

Nintendo is in the lead. They are the most profitable videogame company there is.

[Xtremehkr]

It kind of makes sense to come in last when offering a new system. I know plenty of people who are not limited to one system.

Nintendo will have the most modern console until the next round of updates come.

[PlaceofDis]

i suppose i might as well ask this here.


its summer. i just graduated college. im working full time, but in my off time i want to relax and unwind a bit, and i have always enjoyed gaming every now and then. once upon a time i had a PS2, it was alright, fun most of the time. sold it a while back though.

anyways, would i be stupid/crazy to buy a gamecube now? ive been looking into it, and it seems to have games that i will like, plus games that my gf will play too. i know the Revalution is a bit off yet, but will GC games be playable on it?

guess im just second guessing myself really as i dont know a whole lot about the console areas of tech, etc

[SurfAddict]

i suppose i might as well ask this hear.


its summer. i just graduated college. im working full time, but in my off time i want to relax and unwind a bit, and i have always enjoyed gaming every now and then. once upon a time i had a PS2, it was alright, fun most of the time. sold it a while back though.

anyways, would i be stupid/crazy to buy a gamecube now? ive been looking into it, and it seems to have games that i will like, plus games that my gf will play too. i know the Revalution is a bit off yet, but will GC games be playable on it?

guess im just second guessing myself really as i dont know a whole lot about the console areas of tech, etc

Well its what 99 bucks at this point so why not I think you might even get a game at that rate so try it out

[Powerbook G5]

The Revolution will be backwards compatible with Gamecube games, so go to EB, get yourself a nice Gamecube, and by the time that new smell wears off and you have had a nice fix of Nintendo goodness, that Revolution will be right around the corner ready for us all.

[PlaceofDis]

The Revolution will be backwards compatible with Gamecube games, so go to EB, get yourself a nice Gamecube, and by the time that new smell wears off and you have had a nice fix of Nintendo goodness, that Revolution will be right around the corner ready for us all.

thats what i was thinking, just didnt know if i was off my rocker or sane, its hard to tell these days

[GFLPraxis]

i suppose i might as well ask this here.


its summer. i just graduated college. im working full time, but in my off time i want to relax and unwind a bit, and i have always enjoyed gaming every now and then. once upon a time i had a PS2, it was alright, fun most of the time. sold it a while back though.

anyways, would i be stupid/crazy to buy a gamecube now? ive been looking into it, and it seems to have games that i will like, plus games that my gf will play too. i know the Revalution is a bit off yet, but will GC games be playable on it?

guess im just second guessing myself really as i dont know a whole lot about the console areas of tech, etc

Not crazy at all! Gamestop has em used at $69 and refurb at $79. Go get one!

Revolution is backwards compatible and even has slots for GameCube memory cards, no worries.

[Dagless]

ive also noticed Nintendo games being the cheapest around. take the GBA/DS for example. in england on kelkoo.co.uk you can get the latest games for £25. same for the DS. £25. whereas (now i know its not out yet but online shops are selling PSP games for pre-order) the competitions games cost £39.
ditto for the cube. players choice games are about £15-£19 online, brand new ones for about £27-£29.

maybe its because they dont sell as much? who knows, all i know is that paying £17 for Windwaker is a pretty magnificent thing. and £15 for Smash Bros Melee too. i'd strongly recommend getting these games to kick start your cube collection;

-Smash Bros Melee
-F-Zero GX
-Gameboy Player (cuz hey, some of the greatest games out in the past few years have been on GBA)
-Windwaker
-Metal Gear Solid: Twin Snakes

personally i'd go for it. and like GFLPraxis said; the Rev is backwards compatible so its thumbs up all round! and the whole experience is dirt cheap

[Dagless]

going back to the DVD playing side of things...

im probably one of the few people who does this. but i dont really care much for extra's on a DVD. so when i get a DVD i rip it, and about 2-4 others and burn them back onto 1 DVD in DivX. tis perfect for me.

so i make do with a DivX player :D. not even my modded Xbox can do this (dosnt take non-UDF/ISO discs). anyone else do this?

[ijimk]

going back to the DVD playing side of things...

im probably one of the few people who does this. but i dont really care much for extra's on a DVD. so when i get a DVD i rip it, and about 2-4 others and burn them back onto 1 DVD in DivX. tis perfect for me.

so i make do with a DivX player :D. not even my modded Xbox can do this (dosnt take non-UDF/ISO discs). anyone else do this?

what do u use to rip in OS X?

[jakeOSX]

ok a few things.

first, nintendo is profitable. the XBOX division was in the green ONE quarter. all the rest of the time, it lost money. hell, if it weren't for halo the xbox would have gone the way of the neo-geo.

second, starting line-up. xbox is not backwards compatible. don't believe the hype. it has different hardware for CPU and GPU. any backwards compatiblity will only happen either through emulation or re-compiling. as mac users we know what that means. PS3 will be able to play any PS games. the rev? you'll be able to play 20+ years of nintendo games. (including the 800lbs gorillia)

nintendo is honest to a fault. yes, sony and MS are claiming 80 bazillion times better than the current generation and nintendo is only claiming 2-3x better. sony also said the PS2 would render toy story real time... if you have seen RE4 or windwaker or even starfox, imagine 2-3x that. nintendo isn't talking numbers, they are talking overall.

load times make me cry. here is a test. (i can do this, i have two tv's next to each other) put in GT4 and FZero. then, see how many tracks you can race on FZero before GT4 game is loaded and ready to go...

nintendo is the innovator of the consules. they are the apple. look at your controller, no matter what system you have. know why it looks like that? NES. analog stick? N64, rumble? N64, shoulder buttons, SNES. first party wireless controllers? gamecube (sorry M$ and Sony peeps you have to wait for these) the nintendo controller is so much better than the other two. where is the triangle button? i know where the a and b buttons are.

both the PS3 and XBOX have already said they are not gaming consules, but entertainment centers. there is a lot of marketing goop associated with that, but the gist i got was that if i buy one i'll be paying $400+ for features i'll never use. XBOX will connect to a windows media center computer, great i have a mac. PS3 will do MP3 streaming and other nonsense. great i have an airport express, etc. what if i just want to play games?

and let us not forget the gameboy. the PSP will never. ever. de-thrown the gameboy. I can get a gameboy and three to four games for the price of just a PSP. (let us not discuss load time, because it is sad) and the GB micro is great. i can keep a gameboy in my pocket and take it anywhere (well, i do mostly anyway, but i mean people with smaller pockets) the gameboy is nintendo's ipod. they did it right. it is about the games, stupid.

oh, and for your movie/mp3 people :
http://www.lik-sang.com/info.php?category=246&products_id=6239

will nintendo be #1 again? probably not this gen. my guess is this:

ps3 - $400
xbox - $400
rev - $200

and most people will choose between the xbox and the ps3, and get a rev on the side. it will be a solid #2, and people will realize that the xbox exists only to play halo, which really isn't that good anyway.

(sorry this is getting long)

games. resident evil 4 is amazing. they are porting it to PS2 and having to more than half the polygons used. ps2 users, i am sorry. starfox adventures, though a zelda rip, is a beautiful game. sonic games are always disturbingly fun. metriod. mario.

ds. rogue agent and splintercell are going to be amazing for the ds. advanced wars DS... let's see the PSP do a RTS. the line-up is packed for DS games.

rev. free online service. downloadable games. a non-metriod FPS from retro!

did i want to see the revolution? yeah. did i cling to the thursdaython rumors? yup. do i think nintendo missed the boat? nope. pre-rendered or half finished games do no make a system.

oh, and real FPS players use a keyboard and mouse =)

-j

[GFLPraxis]

nintendo is honest to a fault. yes, sony and MS are claiming 80 bazillion times better than the current generation and nintendo is only claiming 2-3x better. sony also said the PS2 would render toy story real time... if you have seen RE4 or windwaker or even starfox, imagine 2-3x that. nintendo isn't talking numbers, they are talking overall.

I gotta go and don't have time to discuss all your points, but...

Nintendo never claimed 2-3x.
http://cube.ign.com/articles/522/522559p2.html

"Q: Is Revolution "two-to-three times more powerful than GameCube"?

A: USA Today reported this news based on a comment from Nintendo of America's vice president of corporate affairs, Perrin Kaplan. The information was later determined to be false. We do not yet know how much more power Revolution wields over its predecessor."


And a great Miyamoto quote:

if you look at the numbers that they're throwing out, are those numbers going to be used in-game? I mean, those are just numbers that somebody just crunched up on a calculator. We could throw out a bunch of numbers, too, but what we're going to do is wait until our chips are done and we're going to find out how everything in the game is running, what its peak performance is, and those are the numbers that we're going to release because those are the numbers that really count.

I do think it's very irresponsible for people to say, "This is what we're running on. This is the power of our machine," when they're not even running on final boards. I think the professional's job is to not believe those numbers.

[kuyu]

both the PS3 and XBOX have already said they are not gaming consules, but entertainment centers. there is a lot of marketing goop associated with that, but the gist i got was that if i buy one i'll be paying $400+ for features i'll never use. XBOX will connect to a windows media center computer, great i have a mac. PS3 will do MP3 streaming and other nonsense. great i have an airport express, etc. what if i just want to play games?
-j

Well, I agree mostly. However I think it's naive to assume that most of us have no need for an integrated entertainment hub. Isn't that why we bought a mac in the first place? The 360 will connect to your ipod, as M$ is taking an inclusive approach regarding 3rd party gadgets. Whether or not I can stream custom soundtracks into a game a la playlists from my ipod remains to be seen, but the ability to hook the ipod up to my home theater system is great.

I believe there is a market for this sort of device. But, Sony might be shooting themselves in the foot by assuming we all need 2 such gadgets. I am going to pre-order the 360 along with Gears of War, Saints Row(GTA killer in the making!), and Project Gotham. When big N unveils the revolution proper, I will pre-order one as well. I can wait for the PS3, at least until the price is reasonable.

[eva01]

i know i don't want some all in one crap, i want to play games, if i wanted all the other crap in one thing, i wouldn't have bought an iPod, DVD player, and computer.

[Archmagination]

Hmm somewhere on a mb I went to I saw an interesting stat.. The company's profits for the quarter(maybe it was a year?)... I dont remember most of the exact numbers, but I am close.

Microsoft=$230 Billion(All from Windows sales, xbox and games lose $)
Sony=$890 Million(Loses $ on PS2 console, makes up with games)
Nintendo=$30 Billion(Makes a pofit on everything(maybe a loss on DS)

I think Nintendo knows what they are doing with Revolution. They are the only company that specializes in game console's and game's. They are the only company that actually designs a console that is powerful, cheap and allows them to make a nice profit from.

Look at what the PS3 and XBox 360 specs are.. both of them are going to spend over a $1000 dollars to make each unit(infact they may cost over $2000 to make each unit) Now I am likely off on this, but this is just based on glancing at there CPU's and GPU's specs(Hell the PS3 GPU should cost as much as the console will sell for) Even accounting for how the production costs will lower over time there still will be NO way for Sony or Microsoft to make a pofit on the consoles themselves.

Now if you compare to what Nintendo did with the Gamecube compared to the PS2 and Xbox and then try to scale it up to what they MAY do with Revolution I come up with sometype of spec like this:

CPU=1ghz specialized processor(Like the "Gecko" 300mhz Gamecube proc)
GPU=128mb Radeon Pro 9800 specialized GPU
RAM=256mb
Drive=Dual Layer DVD Drive

The CPU could become a 2ghz.. it all depends on the profit margin.. They could go with a Radeon 9600, but I think the Radeon Pro 9800 is a good card for the system. The RAM may be lower, but 128mb I think would be just about right. I dont think Nintendo will go adopt Blu Ray or HD-DVD because they just dont need them for their game system. I am guessing this unit would cost them maybe $200 to $250 make and they will sell them for $300. Of course Nintendo will likely suprise me... after all their new system is called "Revolution"

[jakeOSX]

I gotta go and don't have time to discuss all your points, but...

Nintendo never claimed 2-3x.
http://cube.ign.com/articles/522/522559p2.html


ah, thanks, didn't know that. almost fell into the PR monster myself.

[GFLPraxis]

Well, I agree mostly. However I think it's naive to assume that most of us have no need for an integrated entertainment hub. Isn't that why we bought a mac in the first place? The 360 will connect to your ipod, as M$ is taking an inclusive approach regarding 3rd party gadgets. Whether or not I can stream custom soundtracks into a game a la playlists from my ipod remains to be seen, but the ability to hook the ipod up to my home theater system is great.

I believe there is a market for this sort of device. But, Sony might be shooting themselves in the foot by assuming we all need 2 such gadgets. I am going to pre-order the 360 along with Gears of War, Saints Row(GTA killer in the making!), and Project Gotham. When big N unveils the revolution proper, I will pre-order one as well. I can wait for the PS3, at least until the price is reasonable.

Both the 360 and PS3 connect to iPod.

Sure, SOME people need this stuff, video streaming, MP3's on the hard drive, etc. Fine. Let THEM pay extra for those features. Make two versions. Don't mind that. But I don't!

[Powerbook G5]

Where did you hear that the PS3 and XBox 360 connect to the iPod?

[GFLPraxis]

Hmm somewhere on a mb I went to I saw an interesting stat.. The company's profits for the quarter(maybe it was a year?)... I dont remember most of the exact numbers, but I am close.

Microsoft=$230 Billion(All from Windows sales, xbox and games lose $)
Sony=$890 Million(Loses $ on PS2 console, makes up with games)
Nintendo=$30 Billion(Makes a pofit on everything(maybe a loss on DS)

I think Nintendo knows what they are doing with Revolution. They are the only company that specializes in game console's and game's. They are the only company that actually designs a console that is powerful, cheap and allows them to make a nice profit from.

Look at what the PS3 and XBox 360 specs are.. both of them are going to spend over a $1000 dollars to make each unit(infact they may cost over $2000 to make each unit) Now I am likely off on this, but this is just based on glancing at there CPU's and GPU's specs(Hell the PS3 GPU should cost as much as the console will sell for) Even accounting for how the production costs will lower over time there still will be NO way for Sony or Microsoft to make a pofit on the consoles themselves.

Now if you compare to what Nintendo did with the Gamecube compared to the PS2 and Xbox and then try to scale it up to what they MAY do with Revolution I come up with sometype of spec like this:

CPU=1ghz specialized processor(Like the "Gecko" 300mhz Gamecube proc)
GPU=128mb Radeon Pro 9800 specialized GPU
RAM=256mb
Drive=Dual Layer DVD Drive

The CPU could become a 2ghz.. it all depends on the profit margin.. They could go with a Radeon 9600, but I think the Radeon Pro 9800 is a good card for the system. The RAM may be lower, but 128mb I think would be just about right. I dont think Nintendo will go adopt Blu Ray or HD-DVD because they just dont need them for their game system. I am guessing this unit would cost them maybe $200 to $250 make and they will sell them for $300. Of course Nintendo will likely suprise me... after all their new system is called "Revolution"

Sorry, but you're waaaaay off there.

First thing: Profits. On spot there, but here are the numbers of the gaming divisions of the companies (well, Nintendo IS a gaming company, period, Sony and MS have gaming divisions ;) ). The box on this page has those numbers.
http://forum.pcvsconsole.com/viewthread.php?tid=11760&page=5

Nintendo wins, Sony does great, Microsoft crashes and burns.

Next thing. Your estimates are absolutely crazy, no offense. Microsoft lost a billion a year for selling at an $80 loss. No way ANYONE can sell at a $1000 loss, even M$.

You're falling into the marketting hype. Remember, NVidia and ATi have already announced the next gen graphics cards to come out in a few months. ATi's R500, NVidia's NV70(?), wasn't it?

Remember, generation jumps are HUGE. The $200 Geforce 6600 GT outperformed the $500 Geforce FX 5900 Ultra by two times. So a $200 next gen card can outperform $1000 worth of current gen hardware assuming a similar leap. And thats $200 retail, much less in bulk, especially when its a customized chip made in part by your company.

RSX outperforms $1000 worth of CURRENT graphics hardware, sure. By the time it comes out however, it will be worth a couple hundred.

I doubt anyone will sell at more than $50 loss, and even that would be a stretch.

[GFLPraxis]

Where did you hear that the PS3 and XBox 360 connect to the iPod?

Microsoft and Sony both explicitly stated iPod connectivity in their keynotes.

[Batman2900]

Just a couple things.

First, the xbox 360's release has been pushed back to sometime in 2006. I don't remember when. They aren't ready to come out in November. I mean, yeah, the actual console will be ready but they won't have the games to back it. And that brings me to my point...

...I believe Nintendo will come out with a good system. It will be comperable to Sony and MS, who knows which one will technically be better, but they'll all proabably be in the same region. What really determines it is the games. That's where the companies make their money. The consoles by themselves cost the company more to produce than they do to sell. Yup, they lose money on every console. So really, it's all about who has the game support when their respective systems debut. So hopefully hopefully Nintendo can come up with a larger quantity of quality games to keep it in the running.

Also... who here has played both the PSP and the DS? I only played them briefly at E3, but it seemed the PsP's graphics was much prettier than the DS. Is this correct? Or are they pretty comperable?

[wrldwzrd89]

Just a couple things.

First, the xbox 360's release has been pushed back to sometime in 2006. I don't remember when. They aren't ready to come out in November. I mean, yeah, the actual console will be ready but they won't have the games to back it. And that brings me to my point...

...I believe Nintendo will come out with a good system. It will be comperable to Sony and MS, who knows which one will technically be better, but they'll all proabably be in the same region. What really determines it is the games. That's where the companies make their money. The consoles by themselves cost the company more to produce than they do to sell. Yup, they lose money on every console. So really, it's all about who has the game support when their respective systems debut. So hopefully hopefully Nintendo can come up with a larger quantity of quality games to keep it in the running.

Also... who here has played both the PSP and the DS? I only played them briefly at E3, but it seemed the PsP's graphics was much prettier than the DS. Is this correct? Or are they pretty comperable?
You are correct, by and large. However, remember that, unlike Sony, Microsoft, and Sega (when they made consoles), Nintendo has consistently made a profit on every console they sell, even after dropping the price. I see no reason why Nintendo won't be able to do the same thing with the Revolution. The games are definitely a large source of revenue for all the game and console makers - that I agree with 100%.

[Dagless]

...load times make me cry. here is a test. (i can do this, i have two tv's next to each other) put in GT4 and FZero. then, see how many tracks you can race on FZero before GT4 game is loaded and ready to go...

yes! finally someone agrees with me that loading times should have been wiped out years ago. i grew up on the Amiga which was a dog to load. especially games like Rise of the Robots which took about 5 disk swaps before the intro animation played! the cube is lightning fast at loading. i commend Ninty for sticking with carts on the N64, at that time a CD based console took decades to load up. infact i think the Cube was the first ever Nintendo console to have any loading times at all. fast. like it should be.

...nintendo is the innovator of the consules. they are the apple. look at your controller, no matter what system you have. know why it looks like that? NES. analog stick? N64, rumble? N64, shoulder buttons, SNES. first party wireless controllers? gamecube (sorry M$ and Sony peeps you have to wait for these) the nintendo controller is so much better than the other two. where is the triangle button? i know where the a and b buttons are.

i suppose its not hard to know where Triangle is. last time i played my PS1 was about 6 years ago but i can still remember the layout... i think? X, O, Triangle, Square (clockwise). that said the dual shoulder button thing was confusing. took my longer mastering PS1 games than any other machine.
and yea for Sony and MS blatantly copying Nintendos controllers. pretty much like Longhorn copying OSX. make something brilliant? nah instead of trying to better it we'll just rip it.


and let us not forget the gameboy. the PSP will never. ever. de-thrown the gameboy. I can get a gameboy and three to four games for the price of just a PSP. (let us not discuss load time, because it is sad) and the GB micro is great. i can keep a gameboy in my pocket and take it anywhere (well, i do mostly anyway, but i mean people with smaller pockets) the gameboy is nintendo's ipod. they did it right. it is about the games, stupid.

sweet donkey i want a GBA Micro! back when i first got my GBA i had images of playing Advance Wars (although im pretty bad at it) on a derelict hill sitting under a tree on a hot day... only i never did that. couldnt fit my GBA into my pocket confortably! but the Micro? throw that into my bag and take it anywhere :) like the iPod 4G vs. the Shuffle. sure the bigger one is best with its hard drive but the shuffles mini! extremely portable and cheap.


oh, and for your movie/mp3 people :
http://www.lik-sang.com/info.php?category=246&products_id=6239


i really want one of those, or i did until i realised that i wouldnt watch video's on the move. why would i? i'd knock into people or miss my bus stop. a mate of mine has a cheaper one that can play NES games.

games. resident evil 4 is amazing. they are porting it to PS2 and having to more than half the polygons used. ps2 users, i am sorry. starfox adventures, though a zelda rip, is a beautiful game. sonic games are always disturbingly fun. metriod. mario.

i didnt like Starfox Adventures at all. ditto for Sonic games. fun? too buggy and erratic for me. now the 2D Sonic games are legendary... but don't give me 3D.

oh, and real FPS players use a keyboard and mouse =)

yup, or a touch screen. i can play PC FPS games quite easily but learning the whole keyboard is a pain. still cant play Halo on my PC fluently. but Metroid Hunters is killer.
playing Hunters with either Nintendo's own free internet connection or tunneling it on my PC or Mac fighting against folk all over the world... it just sounds pure amazingness :D

[GFLPraxis]

Just a couple things.

First, the xbox 360's release has been pushed back to sometime in 2006. I don't remember when. They aren't ready to come out in November. I mean, yeah, the actual console will be ready but they won't have the games to back it. And that brings me to my point...


Where has this been officially stated? Microsoft has said November 2005, and I have seen nothing otherwise.


Also... who here has played both the PSP and the DS? I only played them briefly at E3, but it seemed the PsP's graphics was much prettier than the DS. Is this correct? Or are they pretty comperable?


PSP has a DEFINITE victory in graphics. I still prefer the DS though. Nearly half the price ($150 vs $250), decent price on games ($30 vs $50, do you want to be paying $50 for handheld games?), lack of any load times on the DS while you get PS2-like load times on the PSP, and the touch screen rocks.

The DS pushes innovation (touch screen) over graphics and is intended for a lower price point. Nintendo never meant to directly compete with the PSP, but people compare them anyway. The price point is way off.


PSP = Dreamcast graphics
DS = slightly above N64 graphics, except without texture filtering

[Dagless]

PSP = Dreamcast graphics
DS = slightly above N64 graphics, except without texture filtering

yup. but just like everything that has come before them the graphics will improve on both devices as the game companies get better at optimization. but im not fussed about 3D chips or whatever. i prefare 2D on my handhelds. 2D graphics can look awesome without super specs. i cant imagine Castlevania DS getting anywhere near the DS's true power.

sony really have pissed on europe though pushing the PSP's release date to September 1st. even though the DS is outselling it the gap between Japan to UK launch is disgusting. by the PSP's launch date here the killer DS apps will be out. Mario Kart, Animal Crossing, *hopefully* that new Mario Bros game and Nintendogs. future best sellers.

[zap2]

Sony stole the analog stick and quickly made an updated PS1 version of its gamepad after N64 was unveiled to have one. PS2 and XBOX both have rumble packs after N64 was unveiled to have one.

Nintendo leads the industry, the rest just copy.

sony and MS both have better games and spec on there systems, Nintendo once was a great gaming company now they are not as good the sytems and behind( gamecube has nothing and ps2 and xbox, and DS is terrible compared to PSP, DS's 2 screens killed itself) Nintendo is going to have to do something really big, which i doubt if i can, it beat sony and MS. For me a game system has to have graphics and good games and right now xbox has that but ps3 looks good. Hardware and Software sell game sytems, Nintedo just lacks it in Hardware.

[takao]

sony really have pissed on europe though pushing the PSP's release date to September 1st. even though the DS is outselling it the gap between Japan to UK launch is disgusting. by the PSP's launch date here the killer DS apps will be out. Mario Kart, Animal Crossing, *hopefully* that new Mario Bros game and Nintendogs. future best sellers.

yeah i've read nintendo sold already 900k (or already a million ?) DS units in europe since launch and there are stil lsome months till september 1st ;)

[Poff]

sony and MS both have better games and spec on there systems, Nintendo once was a great gaming company now they are not as good the sytems and behind( gamecube has nothing and ps2 and xbox, and DS is terrible compared to PSP, DS's 2 screens killed itself) Nintendo is going to have to do something really big, which i doubt if i can, it beat sony and MS. For me a game system has to have graphics and good games and right now xbox has that but ps3 looks good. Hardware and Software sell game sytems, Nintedo just lacks it in Hardware.

So, are you saying PS2 has better graphics than Gamecube? I might get you wrong, but if you actually claim that then you seriously need to look again.

[zap2]

from what i remember of ps2 i say ps2 has better graphic that gamecube but i could be wrong because i have xbox and gamecude and no ps2 and the last time i use ps2 i can not recall

[GFLPraxis]

from what i remember of ps2 i say ps2 has better graphic that gamecube but i could be wrong because i have xbox and gamecude and no ps2 and the last time i use ps2 i can not recall

LOL!

Sorry, PS2 launched a full one year before the GameCube. The GameCube's graphics capabilities are far superior.

XBox > GameCube > > PS2 > Dreamcast in terms of graphics.

Nintendo has always been at the top of the graphics game until Microsoft joined the picture. NES had the best graphics at its time. SNES had the best graphics at its time (Genesis had a faster processor but in graphics SNES had it beat). N64 had the best graphics IIRC, however this was sort of negated by disks- while the N64 had slightly better graphics (see Zelda 64: Ocarina of Time, it's amazing), the PS1 could fit so much more data on the disks that the games sometimes appeared better, had FMV cutscenes, etc. GameCube crushed the PS2 like a bug. Then the XBox game along, but Microsoft had to illegally dump it and sell at a higher price point (Nintendo sold GameCube at $200 for a profit, Microsoft sold XBox for $300 at a $100 loss!) to get better graphics.

Nintendo is, contrary to popular opinion, NOT behind on graphics and never was.

[TEG]

Of all the introductions, Nintendo was the most interesting. Their system will be on the bleeding edge of technology, not just the cutting edge. We already know enough about the Revoultion to make the X-Box360 and PS3 look like crap, and the Revolution will have a much better price point (i.e. $199 vs. $350 and $450).

TEG

[zap2]

i like my xbox much more then my gamecube, xbox has better games, and as far as price u get what u pay for, i will spend 150-200 more for better graphics and in my opion better games. The some reason iMac, i could ahve got an eMac and i would be fine but i wanted the exra power that came in my iMac.

[kuyu]

DS is terrible compared to PSP, DS's 2 screens killed itself) Nintendo is going to have to do something really big, which i doubt if i can, it beat sony and MS.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. The DS and the PSP are not competitors. Simply picking a few criteria on which one platform obviously beats the other and claiming that it's therefore better is ridiculous.

Neither one sucks and neither one owns the other in any category. It's quite simple. PSP has movie playback and killer graphics. DS has battery life and innovative games. But, since they are totally different products with different uses, the two can't really be compared.

It's like saying "iPod sucks compared to minidisc." I think people lump them together because most gamers will only buy one, not both.

[Batman2900]

Where has this been officially stated? Microsoft has said November 2005, and I have seen nothing otherwise.


It has not been officially stated. But they said it at the end of E3.
You don't have to believe me, I proabably wouldn't. But regardless, the Xbox 360 it won't be out till 2006. The machine will be ready, but the games aren't. I mean they would have a couple, but because of the limited number of games and the amount coming out for ps2 around the holiday season they would get their asses kicked. And again I say that games are where they make their money. It's a fact. They lose money on the console itself. So for the holiday season they want to focus on the games they will be coming out with for the xbox so they can make their money, then introduce the xbox 360 in the spring and have a huge influx of games ready for the 2006 holiday season. It makes sense.

[ijimk]

i have always found nintendo games to be very engaging and enjoying to play, yeah the graphics does leave a bit to be desired but the game play is amazing. i can spend hours playing mario, and all the best games on the xbox and ps2 work on the game cube as well (i own a ps2 by the way, and i felt really let down by GTA:SA).

apparently the new console can allow users to download older games off the nintendo server (hopefully for free, but i doubt it). that does sound interesting.

remember with the gameboy, when all the competition has colour screens but nintendo kept their B&W to save battery life. that proved successful.

i think the next gen console will be a similar assessment. the pure selling price may alone get majority of casual gamers. saying 100-200 dollars on the system and being able to get games with that money is a good strategy from nintendo. :D

[GFLPraxis]

It has not been officially stated. But they said it at the end of E3.
You don't have to believe me, I proabably wouldn't. But regardless, the Xbox 360 it won't be out till 2006. The machine will be ready, but the games aren't. I mean they would have a couple, but because of the limited number of games and the amount coming out for ps2 around the holiday season they would get their asses kicked. And again I say that games are where they make their money. It's a fact. They lose money on the console itself. So for the holiday season they want to focus on the games they will be coming out with for the xbox so they can make their money, then introduce the xbox 360 in the spring and have a huge influx of games ready for the 2006 holiday season. It makes sense.

If you could just show me someplace with credibility where this is quoted? It's a pretty big quote, IGN might have it? :confused:

For losing money on the consoles and making money on the games, thats a Microsoft specific. Nintendo and Sony make money off the consoles. Microsoft doesn't HAVE to sell at a loss this time.

[GFLPraxis]

i like my xbox much more then my gamecube, xbox has better games, and as far as price u get what u pay for, i will spend 150-200 more for better graphics and in my opion better games. The some reason iMac, i could ahve got an eMac and i would be fine but i wanted the exra power that came in my iMac.

"XBox has better games" is a complete matter of opinion.

Ignoring the multiplatform games, we've got games like Super Smash Bros Melee, Zelda: The Wind Waker, Metroid Prime 1 and 2, the new Zelda game, SMS, RE4, and a ton of other games.

XBox? I refuse to play shooters on a console- hate dual joysticks. Keyboard and mouse for me. I get bored with every racer except for Burnout 3. I hate sports games. I don't like bloodfests. As a result, very, very few XBox games except for KOTOR appeal for me (before you list Burnout 3 and Episode 3, neither are exclusive).

[Poff]

There are two racing games in this world that rocks. F-Zero and Gran Turismo. Neither are on the XBox.

[takao]

There are two racing games in this world that rocks. F-Zero and Gran Turismo. Neither are on the XBox.

haha my sister bougth the original F-zero for the SNES just the week before the revolution was annouced ;)

[Poff]

haha my sister bougth the original F-zero for the SNES just the week before the revolution was annouced ;)

Remember when it was announced for N64? All the cheering over the greatest graphics mankind had ever seen, or something like that.. :D

[Dagless]

Remember when it was announced for N64? All the cheering over the greatest graphics mankind had ever seen, or something like that.. :D

oh wow yea! F-Zero X! possibly my most played N64 game, more so than Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time. i think i bought it for my 14th birthday just £7 in the second hand bin.

as for Gran Tourismo, i loved the first one but since then... nah. Forza seems to have stolen its crown in my opinion.

i was thinking last night about Nintendo and how, in my opinion, they make the best games and how people are criticizing them about lack of Nintendo games being released at the moment for DS and GC. but then think about it; only Nintendo make them (with Capcom and Retro) and they still manage to have a whole bunch of games coming out for both systems. how many other games companies (barring the crap EA of course) have a plethora of games in the making for 4 completely different consoles? AND they're making also making at least 2 new game machines (Rev, GB micro, GBA2 perhaps?) all of which will be quality, as nintendo players know.

they are very hard working indeed. and they've somehow blown it?

[GFLPraxis]

There are two racing games in this world that rocks. F-Zero and Gran Turismo. Neither are on the XBox.

The third is Burnout 3, which is available for the XBox...and PS2. I've got the PS2 version and have played the XBox version, they are identical.

[GFLPraxis]

oh wow yea! F-Zero X! possibly my most played N64 game, more so than Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time. i think i bought it for my 14th birthday just £7 in the second hand bin.

as for Gran Tourismo, i loved the first one but since then... nah. Forza seems to have stolen its crown in my opinion.

i was thinking last night about Nintendo and how, in my opinion, they make the best games and how people are criticizing them about lack of Nintendo games being released at the moment for DS and GC. but then think about it; only Nintendo make them (with Capcom and Retro) and they still manage to have a whole bunch of games coming out for both systems. how many other games companies (barring the crap EA of course) have a plethora of games in the making for 4 completely different consoles? AND they're making also making at least 2 new game machines (Rev, GB micro, GBA2 perhaps?) all of which will be quality, as nintendo players know.

they are very hard working indeed. and they've somehow blown it?

Correction. The ones criticizing Nintendo for lacking Nintendo games for the DS are two weeks behind. This would have been true two weeks ago. But anyone still claiming this COMPLETELY missed E3. I remember the G4 people were saying the highlight of Nintendo's booth was DS support and Nintendo had some great stuff there.

Mario and Luigi 2 was completely unexpected. 25 online titles. Lots of games. they did not blow it at all :D

[Symtex]

The third is Burnout 3, which is available for the XBox...and PS2. I've got the PS2 version and have played the XBox version, they are identical.

Aside the loading time, the 480p screen resolution and the online implementation of the xbox version.

*EDIT*
I would like to add that when a developpe goes Multi-platform they create with the lowest denominator in mind : The PS2. If burnout 3 was develope with the xbox in mind it would look different. the perfect exemple is Splinter Cell series. The xbox and ps2 version are totatly different.

[Poff]

I would like to add that when a developpe goes Multi-platform they create with the lowest denominator in mind : The PS2. If burnout 3 was develope with the xbox in mind it would look different. the perfect exemple is Splinter Cell series. The xbox and ps2 version are totatly different.

Graphics schmaphics.. Do you have more fun playing games now than you did 8 years ago?

[GFLPraxis]

Aside the loading time, the 480p screen resolution and the online implementation of the xbox version.


1) Loading time is similar, both use DVD's.
2) Both support 480p.
3) Except you have to pay to play online for the XBox version so it all evens out.

Like I said, no huge difference. There's no reason to buy it for XBox over PS2.


*EDIT*
I would like to add that when a developpe goes Multi-platform they create with the lowest denominator in mind : The PS2. If burnout 3 was develope with the xbox in mind it would look different. the perfect exemple is Splinter Cell series. The xbox and ps2 version are totatly different.

And how does this effect Burnout 3? :rolleyes:

[Symtex]

Graphics schmaphics.. Do you have more fun playing games now than you did 8 years ago?

This is a really good question. I remember playing NES / SNES / Genesis in my youngers days. We use to rent 2 or 3 games and finish them before we had to bring them back the day after. The expectation that we had towards games is very different. The industry has change.

Technology is here and why not using it to the fullest. I hate game that doesn't take advantage of the latest technology : High Definition Television, 5.1 Digital surround sound and other peripheral that could enhance the game experience.

I want my games to look good, sounds good and play good. All 3 aspect are necessary for total package. I can only remember a few short game that fullfill this.

[Symtex]

1) Loading time is similar, both use DVD's.
2) Both support 480p.
3) Except you have to pay to play online for the XBox version so it all evens out.

Like I said, no huge difference. There's no reason to buy it for XBox over PS2.



And how does this effect Burnout 3? :rolleyes:

I was giving an exemple how platform port could be radically different depending how the effort of the publisher to take advantage of each platform harware.

[zap2]

"XBox has better games" is a complete matter of opinion.

Ignoring the multiplatform games, we've got games like Super Smash Bros Melee, Zelda: The Wind Waker, Metroid Prime 1 and 2, the new Zelda game, SMS, RE4, and a ton of other games.

XBox? I refuse to play shooters on a console- hate dual joysticks. Keyboard and mouse for me. I get bored with every racer except for Burnout 3. I hate sports games. I don't like bloodfests. As a result, very, very few XBox games except for KOTOR appeal for me (before you list Burnout 3 and Episode 3, neither are exclusive).


And that is what i said, its even in post as a quote form me. HALO 1/2, Battlefront( not on gamecube but o PS2), KOTOR 1and2, I did not like Metrioid Prime. Rebublic Comandos was good. I graphics is also somethign xbox has that gcube lacks and we also have a ton of other games.

[zap2]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. The DS and the PSP are not competitors. Simply picking a few criteria on which one platform obviously beats the other and claiming that it's therefore better is ridiculous.

Neither one sucks and neither one owns the other in any category. It's quite simple. PSP has movie playback and killer graphics. DS has battery life and innovative games. But, since they are totally different products with different uses, the two can't really be compared.

It's like saying "iPod sucks compared to minidisc." I think people lump them together because most gamers will only buy one, not both.
No, they have many things in common,just because PSP has more EXTRAs does not mean they are noy meant to be compared, There handheld videogames, thats liek say XBox and GameCube should not be compared becuase on plays DVDs and gamecube has Super SAmsh bros so there not comparable. ''innovative games'' is all in ones mind. They have the same just PSP has BETTER of some stuff, will DS has SOME BETTER stuff. I Think the PSP pluses way out its minus, but im not get a handheld when i could spend 150-250 on better stuff.

[GFLPraxis]

I was giving an exemple how platform port could be radically different depending how the effort of the publisher to take advantage of each platform harware.

Yes, but that wasn't what I was discussing with my post. It does not negate the fact that Burnout XBox and PS2 are virtually identical.

[GFLPraxis]

This is a really good question. I remember playing NES / SNES / Genesis in my youngers days. We use to rent 2 or 3 games and finish them before we had to bring them back the day after. The expectation that we had towards games is very different. The industry has change.

Technology is here and why not using it to the fullest. I hate game that doesn't take advantage of the latest technology : High Definition Television, 5.1 Digital surround sound and other peripheral that could enhance the game experience.

I want my games to look good, sounds good and play good. All 3 aspect are necessary for total package. I can only remember a few short game that fullfill this.

You must have had a lot of free time to be able to beat Super Mario World completely in a DAY :eek: that game and others like it were incredibly long for their time.

[GFLPraxis]

No, they have many things in common,just because PSP has more EXTRAs does not mean they are noy meant to be compared, There handheld videogames, thats liek say XBox and GameCube should not be compared becuase on plays DVDs and gamecube has Super SAmsh bros so there not comparable. ''innovative games'' is all in ones mind. They have the same just PSP has BETTER of some stuff, will DS has SOME BETTER stuff. I Think the PSP pluses way out its minus, but im not get a handheld when i could spend 150-250 on better stuff.

I think you're misunderstanding. He's not saying they aren't to be compared because the PSP has extras. He's saying they aren't to be compared because they are in different classes.

The two aren't remotely similar. The DS is aimed for a much lower price point with completely different types of games, while the PSP is aimed at a much higher price point. They're not in the same category. It would be like me asking you, "Which is a better system, the PowerMac G5 dual 2.7, or the iMac G5?" If you are in a cramped office or a college dorm without much money, the iMac with its screen and tiny form factor and lower price might outweigh the higher performance of the much more expensive dual 2.7. As such you would say they aren't in the same class.


PSP and DS aren't in the same class.

[zap2]

but it is only 100 diference( not that i have an extra 100) not that big a a difference save for a little long if u want the psp, just like u save if u want a powerbook insead of a ibook

[GFLPraxis]

but it is only 100 diference( not that i have an extra 100) not that big a a difference save for a little long if u want the psp, just like u save if u want a powerbook insead of a ibook

$100 difference for the initial price, but every single PSP game costs $20 more as well.

It's like buying a car that costs more up front AND uses more gas. It may be a faster/prettier car, but its not very cost efficient at all.

[Poff]

I would have to agree that they're somewhat comparable. At least to a lot of persons aged 20+. Most people would get one of the two systems, but not both, and that has to do with comparability.

I was a bit disappointed with the DS games lineup until E3. (Still am a little disappointed, but I remember it was the exact same way when I bought my brand new GBA some years ago.)

[PlaceofDis]

hey everyone, figured since i inquired about getting a GC earlier in the thread i would post the follow up.

i was going to go for a GC bundle i found which was $145 for the system, a second controller, memory card, and Zelda: Windwalker w/ guide. i found this online at costco, and my mom has a membership so i figured that was a good deal.... headed over to costco today to buy it....turns out they didnt have the Zelda bundle, no big deal to me because Zelda was never one of my absolutely fav. series, but instead they had a Metroid Prime bundle, but without the guide, but same package all around in hardware. however the greatest thing of all was that it was only $89.97!!!!! i was estatic to say the least....

i picked up Super Smash Bros. Melee and Mario Kart. its a great system and im glad that i got it, can't wait for the revolution, although i may wait for the first price cut to get it....

[Poff]

hey everyone, figured since i inquired about getting a GC earlier in the thread i would post the follow up.

i was going to go for a GC bundle i found which was $145 for the system, a second controller, memory card, and Zelda: Windwalker w/ guide. i found this online at costco, and my mom has a membership so i figured that was a good deal.... headed over to costco today to buy it....turns out they didnt have the Zelda bundle, no big deal to me because Zelda was never one of my absolutely fav. series, but instead they had a Metroid Prime bundle, but without the guide, but same package all around in hardware. however the greatest thing of all was that it was only $89.97!!!!! i was estatic to say the least....

i picked up Super Smash Bros. Melee and Mario Kart. its a great system and im glad that i got it, can't wait for the revolution, although i may wait for the first price cut to get it....

Great story! :D

You actually got me thinking. Until now I've been saying I'll get the Revolution same day it gets out. Question is; would I really need it. Maybe I should rather get a GC now, then wait for the price cut on the Revolution.. I'll end up spending just the same that I would with nothing now and Revolution when it comes out..

decisions, decisions...

[GFLPraxis]

Well the Revolution has online super smash bros as a launch title. I definitely want that :D

Since the Revolution is about a year off, consider getting a GC. Get a used one at $69 at GameStop, or a bundle like PlaceofDis did. When the Revolution comes out the GameCube will probably still sell at about $50, you can trade it in for a slight discount- and the Revolution has slots for GameCube controllers and memory cards, so nothing is wasted.

[Symtex]

Yes, but that wasn't what I was discussing with my post. It does not negate the fact that Burnout XBox and PS2 are virtually identical.

It's because developper make lazy port to save money. Now imagine a system so radically different that it requires more time / money to develope for ? That is exactly the road Nintendo is taking. Yes they will offer a different experience but they are going into a "niche" market that will certainly appeal to japanese gamers but won't have the same effect in the NA or Europe market.

I dont' how many time i've said it, the lack of vision of Nintendo is the cause why they went from 1st to 3rd in the console wars. We all know what happen between Nintendo and Sony with the N64 platform. The refusal to use "CD" instead of cartridge was the first nail in the coffin. The refusal to use "DVD" was the second blow to the Nintendo. Their lack of vision is what cause Nintendo to lose so much market share. They said that no game would ever need more that 1.5g of data. They couldn't be more wrong.

The refusal to go online with the Gamecube platform is undeniably a another mistake of Nintendo. I'm sure alot of Mario Kart or Metroid Prime were begging for an online multiplayer option.

Now Nintendo is saying they will revolutionize the gaming industry but yet they announce 5 mario title. Wow, what a revolution. They should name the console Nintendo Vintage. That is the only appeal I see right now in Nintendo : vintage gaming. The lack of new IP and over use of Mario franchise is slowing driving gamers away from Nintendo system.

This is what Nintendo needs to do to succeed :

- New IP
- Don't overcrowd the console with too many mario product. Mario 128 is enough
- An online infrastructure similar to Xbox live
- Use a standard format (DVD, HD-DVD or Blue-ray DVD)
- Offer HDTV resolution with DD 5.1
- Attract Third Party developer by offering tools that make the transition between ps3 and x360 easy.
- Offer mature product for older gamers (shooters, racing games, sports games)
- Offer some multimedia capabilities built-in.

[shadowguy]

This is what Nintendo needs to do to succeed :

- New IP
- Don't overcrowd the console with too many mario product. Mario 128 is enough
- An online infrastructure similar to Xbox live CHECK
- Use a standard format (DVD, HD-DVD or Blue-ray DVD) CHECK
- Offer HDTV resolution with DD 5.1 CHECK
- Attract Third Party developer by offering tools that make the transition between ps3 and x360 easy.
- Offer mature product for older gamers (shooters, racing games, sports games)
- Offer some multimedia capabilities built-in. CHECK.

[Symtex]

Everything you have Check has not been confirm. not even the format.

[GFLPraxis]

It's because developper make lazy port to save money. Now imagine a system so radically different that it requires more time / money to develope for ? That is exactly the road Nintendo is taking. Yes they will offer a different experience but they are going into a "niche" market that will certainly appeal to japanese gamers but won't have the same effect in the NA or Europe market.

I dont' how many time i've said it, the lack of vision of Nintendo is the cause why they went from 1st to 3rd in the console wars. We all know what happen between Nintendo and Sony with the N64 platform. The refusal to use "CD" instead of cartridge was the first nail in the coffin. The refusal to use "DVD" was the second blow to the Nintendo. Their lack of vision is what cause Nintendo to lose so much market share. They said that no game would ever need more that 1.5g of data. They couldn't be more wrong.

The refusal to go online with the Gamecube platform is undeniably a another mistake of Nintendo. I'm sure alot of Mario Kart or Metroid Prime were begging for an online multiplayer option.

Now Nintendo is saying they will revolutionize the gaming industry but yet they announce 5 mario title. Wow, what a revolution. They should name the console Nintendo Vintage. That is the only appeal I see right now in Nintendo : vintage gaming. The lack of new IP and over use of Mario franchise is slowing driving gamers away from Nintendo system.


Wow. Amazing. You apparently pay no attention to anything anyone says.

The GameCube mistakes were a result of the old CEO. New management now, and they got up onstage and told us precisely what their mistakes were and intend to fix them.

Not adopting CD's hurt them. DVD's, not so much. The DVD minidisks did result in a few games being cut down and one or two dual disk games (RE4 is the only one that comes to mind) but also resulted in Nintendo having the only console with insignificant loading times, which IMO is a good tradeoff.

For your checklist...LOL.
This is what Nintendo needs to do to succeed :

- New IP Confirmed.
- Don't overcrowd the console with too many mario product. Mario 128 is enough - You have an anti Mario obsession, don't you? .
- An online infrastructure similar to Xbox live - Confirmed.
- Use a standard format (DVD, HD-DVD or Blue-ray DVD) Confirmed.
- Offer HDTV resolution with DD 5.1 Semi-Confirmed.
- Attract Third Party developer by offering tools that make the transition between ps3 and x360 easy. Confirmed.
- Offer mature product for older gamers (shooters, racing games, sports games) Confirmed.
- Offer some multimedia capabilities built-in. Confirmed.


Okay, let's go over this really quickly.

Nintendo HAS SAID they are working on a new IP onstage. They are also resurrecting some old IP's like Kid Icarus and Punch-Out!. And Retro's site says they are working on something new and secret.

Mario: It's not such a bad thing considering the high quality of Mario games. Okay, I hate Mario Party too, way too many. But every review I've seen said great things about Paper Mario, Mario Tennis, and all the others. Mario Kart rocks. I don't necessarily buy every one, but there's no reason not to let Nintendo do it. But if I see Mario Party 10 within the first year of the Revolution's release somebody will hurt.

Online infrastructure - confirmed onstage. Except free.

Standard format- confirmed onstage. It can read GameCube disks (mini DVD's) and full sized standard DVD's and it's own disks (which I'd assume are HD-DVD or Blu-ray? Though they could be normal DVD's) according to Nintendo.

HDTV resolution- they haven't specificly stated it but its an obvious assumption because EVERYONE is supporting HD and Dolby 5.1 (or 7.1 in some cases). Further, they have mentioned the ability to hook up to a computer monitor in interviews, and even the GameCube has basic HD support, so it must.

Third party developer tools- They're using the same GameCube API. Programmers familiar with the GameCube will have no problem.

Mature products.- Check. New Zelda, Metroid, Geist, exclusive contract for Resident Evil.

Multimedia capabilities- DVD and CD playback confirmed, and it has USB plugs and SD card slots so we'll see what it can do. At minimum it should be able to save screenshots and movies to the SD card, most likely more.


Nintendo has changed. I've told you repeatedly but you keep pretending you didn't hear me.

[Symtex]

Wow. Amazing. You apparently pay no attention to anything anyone says.

The GameCube mistakes were a result of the old CEO. New management now, and they got up onstage and told us precisely what their mistakes were and intend to fix them.

Not adopting CD's hurt them. DVD's, not so much. The DVD minidisks did result in a few games being cut down and one or two dual disk games (RE4 is the only one that comes to mind) but also resulted in Nintendo having the only console with insignificant loading times, which IMO is a good tradeoff.

For your checklist...LOL.


Okay, let's go over this really quickly.

Nintendo HAS SAID they are working on a new IP onstage. They are also resurrecting some old IP's like Kid Icarus and Punch-Out!. And Retro's site says they are working on something new and secret.

Mario: It's not such a bad thing considering the high quality of Mario games. Okay, I hate Mario Party too, way too many. But every review I've seen said great things about Paper Mario, Mario Tennis, and all the others. Mario Kart rocks. I don't necessarily buy every one, but there's no reason not to let Nintendo do it. But if I see Mario Party 10 within the first year of the Revolution's release somebody will hurt.

Online infrastructure - confirmed onstage. Except free.

Standard format- confirmed onstage. It can read GameCube disks (mini DVD's) and full sized standard DVD's and it's own disks (which I'd assume are HD-DVD or Blu-ray? Though they could be normal DVD's) according to Nintendo.

HDTV resolution- they haven't specificly stated it but its an obvious assumption because EVERYONE is supporting HD and Dolby 5.1 (or 7.1 in some cases). Further, they have mentioned the ability to hook up to a computer monitor in interviews, and even the GameCube has basic HD support, so it must.

Third party developer tools- They're using the same GameCube API. Programmers familiar with the GameCube will have no problem.

Mature products.- Check. New Zelda, Metroid, Geist, exclusive contract for Resident Evil.

Multimedia capabilities- DVD and CD playback confirmed, and it has USB plugs and SD card slots so we'll see what it can do. At minimum it should be able to save screenshots and movies to the SD card, most likely more.


Nintendo has changed. I've told you repeatedly but you keep pretending you didn't hear me.

- I still waiting for a name of those new IP. So not confirm
- I've watch the Nintendo press conference and they said squad about their online plan. Only you can download vintage nintendo games. that's it. You call that an elaborate plan ?
- Not alot of developer are familiar with Gamecube API since 3rd party are almost inexistant on GC.
- they haven't said anything but DVD playback as an ADD-ON. *shake heads*

So tell me again how nintendo has change ? I agree that not enough information has been given yet about nintendo revolution. Like I said, Nintendo vintage might be a better name for their console

[GFLPraxis]

- I still waiting for a name of those new IP. So not confirm
- I've watch the Nintendo press conference and they said squad about their online plan. Only you can download vintage nintendo games. that's it. You call that an elaborate plan ?
- Not alot of developer are familiar with Gamecube API since 3rd party are almost inexistant on GC.
- they haven't said anything but DVD playback as an ADD-ON. *shake heads*

So tell me again how nintendo has change ? I agree that not enough information has been given yet about nintendo revolution. Like I said, Nintendo vintage might be a better name for their console


- LOL. Nintendo said onstage they have a new IP they are working on for the Revolution. You're telling me they are lying until they tell you the name?
- They mentioned the online plan at GDC. It will hit the DS first, then Revolution. Free online. They're not telling all yet. You should be looking at the DS online about now, with voice chat and all.
- Nonexistant on GC? ...are you insane?
- They said an add on to enable it, meaning likely a decoder attachment. They said it can read DVD disks.

Nintendo Vingtage? Where the heck are you getting this? They HAVE changed. They're supporting online, have WiFi out of the box, a new controller design, using full sized disks, targetting third parties...that is not classic Nintendo.


Sorry Symtex, you're being extremely anti-Nintendo at this point. "third parties are nonexistant on the GC"? That's the most incredible exagguration I've ever heard. I guess half of my games from Capcom, Activision, EA, and Lucasarts don't exist, eh?

[Symtex]

- LOL. Nintendo said onstage they have a new IP they are working on for the Revolution. You're telling me they are lying until they tell you the name?
- They mentioned the online plan at GDC. It will hit the DS first, then Revolution. Free online. They're not telling all yet. You should be looking at the DS online about now, with voice chat and all.
- Nonexistant on GC? ...are you insane?
- They said an add on to enable it, meaning likely a decoder attachment. They said it can read DVD disks.

Nintendo Vingtage? Where the heck are you getting this? They HAVE changed. They're supporting online, have WiFi out of the box, a new controller design, using full sized disks, targetting third parties...that is not classic Nintendo.


Sorry Symtex, you're being extremely anti-Nintendo at this point. "third parties are nonexistant on the GC"? That's the most incredible exagguration I've ever heard. I guess half of my games from Capcom, Activision, EA, and Lucasarts don't exist, eh?

While there is 1 title release to GC, there is 5x that amount release on Ps2 or Xbox.

I am anti-Nintendo but it's there own damn fault. They pushed gamers like me away. I have bought the GC this generation and I only bought 4 games : SMS (came with the system) , Metroid Prime, Zelda WW and PSO 3. It's been in my closet collecting dust for the past 6 months or so.

I don't intend on buying the revolution this time around unless they bring game that capture my interest. No Super Smash bros, Mario Party or Mario RPG are not game that I want to play. I want to play games like Ghost Recon 3, Gears or War and Perfect Dark Zero. I don't want Mario Tennis, I want a game like Top Spin.

[jaseone]

While there is 1 title release to GC, there is 5x that amount release on Ps2 or Xbox.

I am anti-Nintendo but it's there own damn fault. They pushed gamers like me away. I have bought the GC this generation and I only bought 4 games : SMS (came with the system) , Metroid Prime, Zelda WW and PSO 3. It's been in my closet collecting dust for the past 6 months or so.

I don't intend on buying the revolution this time around unless they bring game that capture my interest. No Super Smash bros, Mario Party or Mario RPG are not game that I want to play. I want to play games like Ghost Recon 3, Gears or War and Perfect Dark Zero. I don't want Mario Tennis, I want a game like Top Spin.

Well then you aren't Nintendo's target market so why are you complaining that Nintendo won't change into a company that will cater to your needs?

There are two different types of gamers as I see it. those that play games because they are entertaining & enjoyable and then there are those are technology & eye candy freaks.

Who friggin cares how many millions of polygons a console has or whatever the current pissing contest is? Like really... A good comparison would be the two Star Wars trilogies look how much CGI and other technological stuff they had for the prequels but yet the originals are still much more entertaining (well except maybe for Episode III).

It gets to a point where if you want realism then you damn well should be outside experieincing real realism and not playing a game to get your fix...

[mac-er]

Might I see some proof? I think that major retailers would not want to stop carrrying Nintendo products; they still sell well.

I didn't want say they were going to stop carrying Nintendo products...just the Gamecube.

I believe there was one major retailer in the UK that did stop selling it because of poor sales.

[GFLPraxis]

I didn't want say they were going to stop carrying Nintendo products...just the Gamecube.

I believe there was one major retailer in the UK that did stop selling it because of poor sales.

It must be a UK thing. In Japan many retailers don't carry XBox, so it all evens out. GameCube is the second highest selling console (PS2 is top everywhere) in Japan. Worldwide XBox and GameCube are tied.

[GFLPraxis]

While there is 1 title release to GC, there is 5x that amount release on Ps2 or Xbox.

I am anti-Nintendo but it's there own damn fault. They pushed gamers like me away. I have bought the GC this generation and I only bought 4 games : SMS (came with the system) , Metroid Prime, Zelda WW and PSO 3. It's been in my closet collecting dust for the past 6 months or so.

I don't intend on buying the revolution this time around unless they bring game that capture my interest. No Super Smash bros, Mario Party or Mario RPG are not game that I want to play. I want to play games like Ghost Recon 3, Gears or War and Perfect Dark Zero. I don't want Mario Tennis, I want a game like Top Spin.

TimeSplitters, RE4, the upcoming Killer 7, and many other games fit your description. You just obviously don't WANT to play the GameCube :rolleyes:

They HAVEN'T pushed gamers away, it's just picky people like you who refuse to buy games if they don't have a "Mature" sticker on them. Most gamers who play on GameCube regularly (not ONLY on GameCube, I know lots of people with both XBox and GC or PS2 and GC) will agree that it has a pretty good games lineup if you bother PLAYING them instead of passing judgement based on looks. They did make mistakes on third party and thats why PS2 crushed all (XBox did horrible with Japanese third parties).

You know the interesting thing? If I were to tell you that the XBox sucks because it lacks good Japanese RPG's I'd probably have fifteen people telling me that Microsoft is trying to rectify it with the X360 as they have said. You say Nintendo made mistakes with some third parties? I have the same response for you. They admitted the mistake and are going to rectify it this next generation. So stop claiming something is going to suck just because Nintendo makes it.

Sorry, but I'm getting annoyed with you bounding into Nintendo threads and making these same comments over and over again about how Nintendo sucks because of such and such mistakes, most of which they are NOT making in the next generation.

[Poff]

the upcoming Killer 7

Am I the only one who is put off by the graphics of that game. I guess it's all cool and whatnot, but it seems somewhat.. wierd..?

[GFLPraxis]

Am I the only one who is put off by the graphics of that game. I guess it's all cool and whatnot, but it seems somewhat.. wierd..?

Well, we'll see- I said the exact same thing about Wind Waker. Then I actually played it :D

[neoelectronaut]

TimeSplitters, RE4, the upcoming Killer 7, and many other games fit your description. You just obviously don't WANT to play the GameCube :rolleyes:

They HAVEN'T pushed gamers away, it's just picky people like you who refuse to buy games if they don't have a "Mature" sticker on them. Most gamers who play on GameCube regularly (not ONLY on GameCube, I know lots of people with both XBox and GC or PS2 and GC) will agree that it has a pretty good games lineup if you bother PLAYING them instead of passing judgement based on looks. They did make mistakes on third party and thats why PS2 crushed all (XBox did horrible with Japanese third parties).

You know the interesting thing? If I were to tell you that the XBox sucks because it lacks good Japanese RPG's I'd probably have fifteen people telling me that Microsoft is trying to rectify it with the X360 as they have said. You say Nintendo made mistakes with some third parties? I have the same response for you. They admitted the mistake and are going to rectify it this next generation. So stop claiming something is going to suck just because Nintendo makes it.

Sorry, but I'm getting annoyed with you bounding into Nintendo threads and making these same comments over and over again about how Nintendo sucks because of such and such mistakes, most of which they are NOT making in the next generation.

I love his reasoning, too. Oh noes! Not enough M rated games! That's like saying Samurai Jack isn't a good series because it's not rated TV-M or Star Wars is not a good movie because it was rated PG...

[GFLPraxis]

I love his reasoning, too. Oh noes! Not enough M rated games! That's like saying Samurai Jack isn't a good series because it's not rated TV-M or Star Wars is not a good movie because it was rated PG...

Yeah, lol. For Star Wars to have been a good movie, sabers would have had to splatter the weilder with blood instead of causterizing wounds, Yoda would have had to coughed up blood when he died in TESB, Palpatine would have had to cuss every sentence, Lando would have had to use gangsta-speak, Leia would wear the metal bikini even on Hoth in the middle of combat, and Luke would have made out with Leia AFTER learning she was his sister.


...or not. :eek:

IMHO, I could care less about M rated games. In fact the M rating usually turns me off because it generally means they just added an excessive amount of blood or profanity just to get that rating, detracting from the game. A lot of these kinds of games are overrated.

[Symtex]

TimeSplitters, RE4, the upcoming Killer 7, and many other games fit your description. You just obviously don't WANT to play the GameCube :rolleyes:

They HAVEN'T pushed gamers away, it's just picky people like you who refuse to buy games if they don't have a "Mature" sticker on them. Most gamers who play on GameCube regularly (not ONLY on GameCube, I know lots of people with both XBox and GC or PS2 and GC) will agree that it has a pretty good games lineup if you bother PLAYING them instead of passing judgement based on looks. They did make mistakes on third party and thats why PS2 crushed all (XBox did horrible with Japanese third parties).

You know the interesting thing? If I were to tell you that the XBox sucks because it lacks good Japanese RPG's I'd probably have fifteen people telling me that Microsoft is trying to rectify it with the X360 as they have said. You say Nintendo made mistakes with some third parties? I have the same response for you. They admitted the mistake and are going to rectify it this next generation. So stop claiming something is going to suck just because Nintendo makes it.

Sorry, but I'm getting annoyed with you bounding into Nintendo threads and making these same comments over and over again about how Nintendo sucks because of such and such mistakes, most of which they are NOT making in the next generation.

I have all 3 consoles so don't try to put label on me. You said they are correcting their mistake but yet they come out with 5 mario title at E3. what a change. Oh btw, if Timesplitter is your idea of a good game, then we will never agree.

[Fukui]

It's because developper make lazy port to save money. Now imagine a system so radically different that it requires more time / money to develope for ? That is exactly the road Nintendo is taking.
Um, the development tools for Revolution are basically the same as for GC.
How is that so radically different?

[GFLPraxis]

I have all 3 consoles so don't try to put label on me. You said they are correcting their mistake but yet they come out with 5 mario title at E3. what a change. Oh btw, if Timesplitter is your idea of a good game, then we will never agree.

I disagree that Mario games are a mistake, as they are all top notch. Except Mario Party, way too many of those.

The ONLY similarity is that they have the same name. Come on, be reasonable here. Not ONE of the Mario games announced at E3 have the same gameplay, or even SIMILAR gameplay. They are completely different games. As long as the games are completely different, I don't mind.

Having a lot of Mario games did NOT cause people not to buy the GameCube. It's just a pet peeve of yours. Nintendo got hurt on GameCube because of lack of online support, bad third party support, and proprietary media, all of which are being fixed.

Just because they haven't stopped making Mario games to satisfy your pet peeve does not mean they aren't changing.

BTW...
TimeSplitters 2 = 9.1 at IGN, 9.0 reader average.


This is very amusing though.


Me: "Nintendo is changing, and correcting a lot of their mistakes. Here are some examples. (examples)"

Symtex: "They made a lot of Mario games, they aren't changing at all, the Revolution will suck!!!"

...riiiiight....


As for labels, you labeled yourself.


I am anti-Nintendo

[modestmelody]

Am I the only one that's more interested in Nintendo's offering than the other two?

I have a few reasons, so hear me out.

1) Far better exclusive titles. I was not going to buy any of this gens consoles until a game came out I had to play. That game never came. However, the other day browsing the shelves of a local Game Stop I realized that the closest by far was the Gamecube. There were only two titles I've played that I felt were near the level of must haves on the other systems-- Devil May Cry 3 and Halo/Halo2. GC had Resident Evil 4, Smash Bros, Metroid, Rogue Squadron sequels, and another Starfox where you actually fly.

2) Lower price point. Call me stupid, but I don't want an all in one box. The closest thing to that will be my PC and will always be my PC. It does it better than anything else. But most of all, right now, I feel that components with specified purposes reign far supreme over the swiss army knife styled devices. I'd rather pay less for a device designed to do one thing really well, especially with a console.

3)Less paper speed, little real world effect. This is a POSITIVE. Why? The games themselves will look similarly as good, though not quite as perfect. But, load times will be faster, developing for them will be far easier and less time consuming, and focus will be on game play and design, not fancy cut scenes or drawing 12 eight billion pixel cars on the screen at once. I want developers to draw smooth good looking games, however, I don't want this to be the soul focus. I have a feeling that massive power will result in uselessly huge "graphic improvement" that will appear only slightly better to the human eye but take far more time, money, and power to render.

4) Library. If the availability of NES, SNES, and N64 covers enough titles at a reasonable cost, I will be all over this. I'd love to be able to play a lot of the old titles I have enjoyed, maybe with updated features like Goldeneye/Perfect Dark/Starfox/Smash Bros online. The best games I have played still largely were on SNES and N64. Anyone who denies the greatness of the N64 didn't play the right titles, IMO. I can list 20+ quality titles for that platform that everyone should have played, something not as easily done on other platforms. That excludes sequels to games already on N64...

5) This is potentially true and links to the above. One thing that will be a HUGE selling point to me will be controller choice. If the controllers are all going to be wireless and old games are going to be available to purchase, the BEST thing Nintendo could do to make this a successful setup is to re-release NES, SNES, N64, and Gamecube controllers that can connect to the Revolution to play the games with the original controls in mind. Perhaps you favored the N64 controller (which I do, though it takes a lot of heat) to any other. I'd lvoe to make it work for new games, though this may be too much to ask. Also, of course, have a Revolution unique design.

6) Finally, innovation. Nintendo always does something new and different from the norm, and although it rests on it's 1st party franchises, the games it releases under those franchises are often radically different in game play and style to the other titles with the same name. Ocarina of Time was not at all similar to all other Zeldas, etc.

I hope that Nintendo has impressive third party support and great exclusive titles available on/near launch. If it does, in my eyes, it has a great chance to "win" 25-30% of the market. Don't forget, Nintendo made a profit on GC, though not greater than that on PS2 (which not including software almost went negative), percentage wise it performed best as a company. Microsoft took a huge hit on the XBox just to get into the game. Lucky for Sony and Microsoft that they are both behemoth's in the marketplace and can churn out profits in other divisions to make up for initial/overall loses. Nintendo is surving quite strongly as a company and will be around for a while, I hope.

[GFLPraxis]

I do agree with most of your points there, and I have already determined that I will buy the Revolution immediately at launch and whenever I can get a good deal, one of the other two consoles (its shaping up to be PS3 at this point. I might get it at launch if my sister still has her job at Best Buy and I can get a discount when it comes out).

Some points:

3) We don't really know the speed yet. Remember, Microsoft and Sony exaggurate the numbers. Nintendo always uses real world estimates, Microsoft and Sony don't. Remember the current gen numbers? According to those, Sony's PS2 could render more polygons per second than the GameCube. Of course, it turned out that Nintendo's numbers were fully textured, fully lit polygons as they would appear in a game, while Sony's were untextured unlit raw polygons that would NEVER appear in a real game, making Sony's numbers a bazillion times larger.

The GameCube's power has impressed me incredibly. At launch (the launch was 3 days apart from Nintendo and Microsoft), Nintendo was selling the GameCube for $200 at a profit, while Microsoft sold the XBox at $300 for a $100 loss.

XBox production costs: $400 per unit
GameCube production costs: Under $200 per unit.

Despite costing LESS than half of the XBox to build, the GameCube was still able to crush the PS2 (which was selling for $300 IIRC at the time, maybe $250) easily in graphics and almost-but-not-quite keep up with the XBox, and be a fraction of the size. That's some pretty impressive engineering.

I do like the idea that Nintendo is using newer technology to make it smaller and cooler. It seems like as consoles evolve they're just getting bigger, fatter, hotter, and loader.

4) Heck yeah :) I missed some games I REALLY want to play. Mario RPG and Majora's Mask.



Last bit:
Actually, Nintendo made more profits than Sony. Sony had a "take a loss on the razors and profit on the blades" strategy. Microsoft tried that strategy but took a HUGE loss on the razors (or XBox), way too much to make up. Nintendo profitted on both. In market share, Sony won. In revenue, Sony won. In profits, Nintendo won.

[GFLPraxis]

For those asking if Nintendo blew it...
http://nintendoinsider.com/site/media/latestline3-6.jpg
http://nintendoinsider.com/site/media/latestline3-5.jpg

And most importantly...
http://nintendoinsider.com/site/media/latestline4-1.jpg

[wrldwzrd89]

I agree with most of modestmelody's points as well. I've always stuck with Nintendo - this is largely because I'm squarely in their target market, and not so much in Sega's/Sony's/Microsoft's.

[Poff]

I agree with most of modestmelody's points as well. I've always stuck with Nintendo - this is largely because I'm squarely in their target market, and not so much in Sega's/Sony's/Microsoft's.

Same here. I do like other games aswell. Halo2 in co-op mode rules. But Nintendo has all of those "social games" aswell. So, even at 22, I can still invite 3 friends over to play Nintendo games..! :D People can complain all they want on Mario titles and games like Mario Party, but for a mix with boys and girls it's just perfect.

[bokdol]

For those asking if Nintendo blew it...
http://nintendoinsider.com/site/media/latestline3-6.jpg
http://nintendoinsider.com/site/media/latestline3-5.jpg

And most importantly...
http://nintendoinsider.com/site/media/latestline4-1.jpg


your pictures dont work

[Dagless]

- Offer mature product for older gamers (shooters, racing games, sports games)

im terribly sorry for this and its slightly off-topic, but how do you expect to play FPS games on the PSP? it aint gonna work well. have you tried playing Metroid Hunters without the touch screen? :rolleyes:

the PS3 was aimed at mature players but they have effectively lost the Shooter genre, which going off your list of mature games has lost 1/3 of the mature market.

wait... sports games actually sell? not so much in england i dont think, i dont know anybody with a football game, 'baseball', american football, swimming, cycling, fishing, wrestling game. sure everyone with a playstation has GTA, and everyone with Xbox loves their Halo. no sports games though.

[Symtex]

im terribly sorry for this and its slightly off-topic, but how do you expect to play FPS games on the PSP? it aint gonna work well. have you tried playing Metroid Hunters without the touch screen? :rolleyes:

the PS3 was aimed at mature players but they have effectively lost the Shooter genre, which going off your list of mature games has lost 1/3 of the mature market.

wait... sports games actually sell? not so much in england i dont think, i dont know anybody with a football game, 'baseball', american football, swimming, cycling, fishing, wrestling game. sure everyone with a playstation has GTA, and everyone with Xbox loves their Halo. no sports games though.

The NA demographic buys alot of sport games. "American Football" sells very well in the states. It almost counts for 15% of all software sales.

[Dagless]

wait... sports games actually sell? not so much in england i dont think...

i was talking about England. i know americans have (or rather come across in adverts) as lovers of american football and wrestling. but not here. i cant remember in exact detail, but if you take a wrestling game back in Game then you only get £15 for it... like i said i cant remember exactly but they are pretty much worthless.

completely agree with the guy who said 'there are 2 types of gamers'. so so true. i sometimes chat with a guy whos PS2 obsessed and he always spouts rubbish about gore being good and 'without it a game is crap'. those kind of people are very popular these days.

personally i love the mini DVDs the cube has. its as close to cartridge zero-loading as you're going to get. and Nintendo has a huge thing about loading.
nobody else cares about waiting cept good ol ninty

and Perfect Dark Zero? oh sweet crap monkeys. i would NOT touch that with a bargepole. cummon! Perfect Dark was alright, but now that Microsoft Game Studios are working on PDZ instead of the original Rare. nah. like i said; barge pole.

hey americans; just wondering, do you guys like EA? just that over here they're treated like urine stains. the whore of the gaming industry.

[Symtex]

i was talking about England. i know americans have (or rather come across in adverts) as lovers of american football and wrestling. but not here. i cant remember in exact detail, but if you take a wrestling game back in Game then you only get £15 for it... like i said i cant remember exactly but they are pretty much worthless.

completely agree with the guy who said 'there are 2 types of gamers'. so so true. i sometimes chat with a guy whos PS2 obsessed and he always spouts rubbish about gore being good and 'without it a game is crap'. those kind of people are very popular these days.

personally i love the mini DVDs the cube has. its as close to cartridge zero-loading as you're going to get. and Nintendo has a huge thing about loading.
nobody else cares about waiting cept good ol ninty

and Perfect Dark Zero? oh sweet crap monkeys. i would NOT touch that with a bargepole. cummon! Perfect Dark was alright, but now that Microsoft Game Studios are working on PDZ instead of the original Rare. nah. like i said; barge pole.

hey americans; just wondering, do you guys like EA? just that over here they're treated like urine stains. the whore of the gaming industry.


Microsoft bought Rare. so it's the original rare group that are developing it. All xbox owner hates EA for their lazy ports and bad online implementation. The only Ea product I bought this year was Burnout 3.

[wrldwzrd89]

Microsoft bought Rare. so it's the original rare group that are developing it. All xbox owner hates EA for their lazy ports and bad online implementation. The only Ea product I bought this year was Burnout 3.
Yes, MS bought Rare, but all the good Rare developers left MS soon afterward to start another company.

[srdashiki]

I know this thread is long (i spent an hour reading it)

but gimme a friggen break there mr Dragon Warrior avatar, you have repeated the same thing over 5 times now about RARE and its lack of good employees.

I hate having to wade thru the same crap when im trying to learn some new crap. BLECH!

[Poff]

I know this thread is long (i spent an hour reading it)

but gimme a friggen break there mr Dragon Warrior avatar, you have repeated the same thing over 5 times now about RARE and its lack of good employees.

I hate having to wade thru the same crap when im trying to learn some new crap. BLECH!

In all honesty, mister 0.06 post per day, he hasn't mentioned RARE in this thread before. There was a discussion on it, mainly on page 2, in which he did not partake. He wrote that because of a person who hadn't yet understood that much of the good people at Rare left to Free Radical after they were bought my Microsoft. (Free radical has games for Gamecube btw. Like Timesplitters.) So give him a brake!

[GFLPraxis]

Microsoft bought Rare. so it's the original rare group that are developing it. All xbox owner hates EA for their lazy ports and bad online implementation. The only Ea product I bought this year was Burnout 3.

The original Rare team left and formed Free Radical. There is no original Rare group at Rare.

[Dagless]

The original Rare team left and formed Free Radical. There is no original Rare group at Rare.

thats exactly what i meant, wow this Symtex guy is not really in the know. i pity the gamer who dosnt know about the Free Radical/Rare scenario.

so now Perfect Dark Zero is related to the old game by name only. kinda sad if you think about it. no more genius Goldeneye/Perfect Dark style innovations. just Microsoft. yippey-woo :rolleyes:

[zap2]

Microsoft bought Rare. so it's the original rare group that are developing it. All xbox owner hates EA for their lazy ports and bad online implementation. The only Ea product I bought this year was Burnout 3.

do not tell me what i hate, i buy games if they look good what company they are made by makes little matter( unless it an illegaly company or in computers i try not to buy MS)

[Symtex]

thats exactly what i meant, wow this Symtex guy is not really in the know. i pity the gamer who dosnt know about the Free Radical/Rare scenario.

so now Perfect Dark Zero is related to the old game by name only. kinda sad if you think about it. no more genius Goldeneye/Perfect Dark style innovations. just Microsoft. yippey-woo :rolleyes:

Not everyone from Rare quit. WTH are you talking about ? From what I remember reading, only 3 person left.

[GFLPraxis]

http://www.cube-europe.com/special.php?sid=freeradical

The producer and director was one of the ones who left.

http://www.gamestation.co.uk/product.asp?id=101254886659638

"many of the original team left".

http://www.cubeplus.co.uk/freeradinterview.htm

According to this at least five of the heads of the PD development team left.

The head programmers and designers and artist and the producer and director. That's most of the talent behind it.

[Symtex]

http://www.cube-europe.com/special.php?sid=freeradical

The producer and director was one of the ones who left.

http://www.gamestation.co.uk/product.asp?id=101254886659638

"many of the original team left".

http://www.cubeplus.co.uk/freeradinterview.htm

According to this at least five of the heads of the PD development team left.

The head programmers and designers and artist and the producer and director. That's most of the talent behind it.

It happen all the time in the industry. blizzard lost the Diablo Founder and Bungie lost some of their founder too. It doesn't make Bungie or Blizzard less of a good developer. Me, personnally, I have no interest in PDZ but I think that what we seen so far in terms of gameplay or media is very early work. You cannot judge a product until completion.

[GFLPraxis]

Right, but so far all the major creativity leading the products left, just a few of the people who do the 'dirty work' are left.

I remember in the N64 days some teams were only a dozen people or less (like the Spyro guys) so its a big chunk there.

I'm not prejudging the game. I'm doing the opposite. YOU were prejudging the game; "It's made by Rare so it must be good!". I'm counteracting that by saying its made by new people just using the same name, so it could go either way.

[neoelectronaut]

Here's another Nintendo first:

The Dual-Analog-Controlled First-Person Shooter.

:)

[GFLPraxis]

Here's another Nintendo first:

The Dual-Analog-Controlled First-Person Shooter.

:)

When was that? The N64 only had one analog stick. Wasn't the first dual analog controlled FPS' on the PS1 with dual shock controllers?

[GFLPraxis]

This is going to sound crazy, but I think the Revolution could possibly be the most powerful console for games :eek:


Arstechnica had a great article explaining the PS3 and X360 architectures.

http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/cpu/xbox360-2.ars/7

Something that struck me; the Rev might actually be the most powerful for gaming, or at least kill the X360.

I know, sounds crazy, right? It struck me reading the Arstechnica article.

Here's two relevant quotes:
game developer comments (on the record and off the record) have Xenon's performance on branch-intensive game control, AI, and physics code as ranging from mediocre to downright bad. Xenon will be a streaming media monster, but the parts of the game engine that have to do with making the game fun to play (and not just pretty to look at) are probably going to suffer. Even if the PPE's branch prediction is significantly better than I think it is, the relatively meager 1MB L2 cache that the game control, AI, and physics code will have to share with procedural synthesis and other graphics code will ensure that programmers have a hard time getting good performance out of non-graphics parts of the game.

Furthermore, the Xenon may be capable of running six threads at once, but the three types of branch-intensive code listed above are not as amenable to high levels of thread-level parallelization as graphics code. On the other hand, these types of code do benefit greatly from out-of-order execution, which Xenon lacks completely, a decent amount of execution core width, which Xenon also lacks; branch prediction hardware, which Xenon is probably short on; and large caches, which Xenon is definitely short on. The end result is a recipe for a console that provides developers with a wealth of graphics resources but that asks them to do more with less on the non-graphical side of gaming.


At any rate, Playstation 3 fanboys shouldn't get all flush over the idea that the Xenon will struggle on non-graphics code. However bad off Xenon will be in that department, the PS3's Cell will probably be worse. The Cell has only one PPE to the Xenon's three, which means that developers will have to cram all their game control, AI, and physics code into at most two threads that are sharing a very narrow execution core with no instruction window. (Don't bother suggesting that the PS3 can use its SPEs for branch-intensive code, because the SPEs lack branch prediction entirely.) Furthermore, the PS3's L2 is only 512K, which is half the size of the Xenon's L2. So the PS3 doesn't get much help with branches in the cache department. In short, the PS3 may fare a bit worse than the Xenon on non-graphics code, but on the upside it will probably fare a bit better on graphics code because of the seven SPEs

Ouch. Neither of these processors is very good for game code it would seem.

Looks to me like Microsoft and Sony are making processor design choices to fit the "media center" idea. They want systems good at decoding HD video (12 at once according to Sony, on the alpha kits), good at multimedia, good at graphics, etc. As a result their processors are reflecting their decisions.

Is it possible that the Revolution might end up the most powerful processor for game code? The reason I'm saying this is simple; Nintendo intends the Revolution to be only for games. Microsoft and Sony are getting big on downloadable videos and media, etc, while Nintendo is giving out downloadable GAMES. EVERYTHING in the Revolution is games related. It doesn't even have a DVD decoder I guess since you apparently need to get a small attachment to play DVD's (not sure how that works, don't ask).

As a result, I'm thinking that we could end up with Microsoft and Sony with more powerful processors...that are optimized for multimedia. While Nintendo ends up with a technically slower (well since its coming out considerably later than the X360 it could be on par, dunnno) but cooler and less power consuming processor that is optimized for GAMES. As a result, even IF they have a slower processor in the Revolution they could actually get the best gaming performance.


Is this a possibility? I await your comments.

[Poff]

Is it possible that the Revolution might end up the most powerful processor for game code? The reason I'm saying this is simple; Nintendo intends the Revolution to be only for games. Microsoft and Sony are getting big on downloadable videos and media, etc, while Nintendo is giving out downloadable GAMES. EVERYTHING in the Revolution is games related. It doesn't even have a DVD decoder I guess since you apparently need to get a small attachment to play DVD's (not sure how that works, don't ask).

I believe Miyamoto said it wouldn't be as powerful, but close? The IGM-interview maybe? I'm not sure.

The thin size tells me I probably won't be as powerful.. hmm..

The DVD-decoder is genious, btw. They don't have to loose money by putting it in for the same price (tho it can't cost much I believe.)
Instead they earn money on those who want DVD playback.

[Symtex]

I believe Miyamoto said it wouldn't be as powerful, but close? The IGM-interview maybe? I'm not sure.

The thin size tells me I probably won't be as powerful.. hmm..

The DVD-decoder is genious, btw. They don't have to loose money by putting it in for the same price (tho it can't cost much I believe.)
Instead they earn money on those who want DVD playback.

Microsoft did the same thing with Xbox and didn't work out the way they wanted.

[Poff]

Microsoft did the same thing with Xbox and didn't work out the way they wanted.

I suppose it will result in somewhat lower console sales (don't need to be a rocket scientist to understand that), but the gross total may very well end up being higher this way.

You might be right, tho. Add-ons are seldomly bought.

[GFLPraxis]

I believe Miyamoto said it wouldn't be as powerful, but close? The IGM-interview maybe? I'm not sure.

The thin size tells me I probably won't be as powerful.. hmm..

The DVD-decoder is genious, btw. They don't have to loose money by putting it in for the same price (tho it can't cost much I believe.)
Instead they earn money on those who want DVD playback.

I didn't mean that the processor itself has more raw power. Like you said, its smaller, it will probably have a slower processor (though the later release date helps). What I'm saying is that the X360 and Cell processors aren't very games-optimized but more multimedia-optimized. So it could turn out that even though Nintendo makes a slower system, if they optimize it for games, it could run faster in games despite being slower overall.

[Symtex]

I didn't mean that the processor itself has more raw power. Like you said, its smaller, it will probably have a slower processor (though the later release date helps). What I'm saying is that the X360 and Cell processors aren't very games-optimized but more multimedia-optimized. So it could turn out that even though Nintendo makes a slower system, if they optimize it for games, it could run faster in games despite being slower overall.

Nintendo has a philosophy of not being heavy graphic oriented 1st party title. So I don't expect nintendo to come out with anything that has that "wow" Factor. I may not like nintendo's way but I have to admit they always made good console hardware base. I though the Nintendo GC had a good hardware architecture.

[GFLPraxis]

Nintendo has a philosophy of not being heavy graphic oriented 1st party title. So I don't expect nintendo to come out with anything that has that "wow" Factor. I may not like nintendo's way but I have to admit they always made good console hardware base. I though the Nintendo GC had a good hardware architecture.

I don't know where you're getting this, as Nintendo has always had the most powerful hardware graphics-wise.

NES; was there any competition outside of the almost unknown SMS?
SNES; Genesis had a faster processor, SNES had better graphics.
N64; The N64 was the most powerful system, although the PS1 had bigger disks.
GameCube; before Microsoft launched with a system that cost twice as much to build, Nintendo had the most powerful system. GameCube is vastly more powerful than either Dreamcast or PS2.


Nintendo has never been last in graphics, and have always been first before the XBox launched (which cost twice as much to build as a GameCube) at a higher price point.

However, Nintendo never emphasized graphics. They never advertised, "Buy our system, we have the best graphics!" or any other advertisements about graphics, like Microsoft and Sony are doing. And that is something I do appreciate about them. They HAVE insane graphics, but to get you to buy the game they emphasize the gameplay.

I expect even if its slower Nintendo will optimize their processor heavily on games, while MS and Sony are targetting multimedia, which could allow Nintendo to catch up processor wise. And even if the processor is slower I expect Nintendo to at least have an equivilant graphics card.

[Dagless]

I don't know where you're getting this, as Nintendo has always had the most powerful hardware graphics-wise.

NES; was there any competition outside of the almost unknown SMS?
SNES; Genesis had a faster processor, SNES had better graphics.
N64; The N64 was the most powerful system, although the PS1 had bigger disks.
GameCube; before Microsoft launched with a system that cost twice as much to build, Nintendo had the most powerful system. GameCube is vastly more powerful than either Dreamcast or PS2.


Nintendo has never been last in graphics, and have always been first before the XBox launched (which cost twice as much to build as a GameCube) at a higher price point.

However, Nintendo never emphasized graphics. They never advertised, "Buy our system, we have the best graphics!" or any other advertisements about graphics, like Microsoft and Sony are doing. And that is something I do appreciate about them. They HAVE insane graphics, but to get you to buy the game they emphasize the gameplay.

I expect even if its slower Nintendo will optimize their processor heavily on games, while MS and Sony are targetting multimedia, which could allow Nintendo to catch up processor wise. And even if the processor is slower I expect Nintendo to at least have an equivilant graphics card.

in the handheld market though they were always behind with graphic ability but still were the most sucessful. history repeats with the DS and PSP again.

i have no doubts the Rev will produce stunning visuals. they always have the power, they just dont always push it to the limits (compare Zelda: Windwaker and Mario Sunshine to Metroid Prime 2 and Twlight Princess). they COULD do brilliant visuals all the time but then it'd all look the same! variation is key. always will be Nintendo's way.

about CPU speeds though, look at Intel VS. IBM speeds. my G4 1.5Ghz performs just as well to the end user as my P4 3.06Ghz. bigger numbers mean crap like ive always said; optimization. sorted.

[Symtex]

There is no gamecube game that had "insane" graphics. Not even RE4. I really didn't l like the low-res muddy texture with no normal map or bump mapping. I don't know why developer are able to create game with the same graphic level of xbox. The GC is capable of approximating the same level has xbox.

After playing game like Ninja Gaiden or Chronicle of Riddick, you can see the different between ps2/gc that use low-res texture with no normal map and bump-mapping and xbox games.

Why can't a game be beautiful graphicly and have good gameplay ? Ninja Gaiden did it. The action was insane and everthing was incredibly details. There are enough talented artist out there that can create masterpieces. I want game to have EVERYTHING : cuttest edge technology and stellar gameplay.