Going to Order New Car...

[EJBasile]

On monday I'm going back to the Land Rover dealership and I am trading in my 2003 Range Rover and my 2001 Range for a new Supercharged Range Rover.

It will have...
400hp Supercharged Jaguar V8 (0-60 in 7sec)
20" Wheels
Navagation System
4WD monitoring system (shows diagram of wheels and where the power is going)
Adjustable Air Suspension
Brembo Breaks
Satillite radio
Grey Interrior w/ walnut trim

I am wondering whether I should get in Black, Silver, or Grey-silver.


I'll miss my 2001 Rover- It was a great car, but its being replaced by one of the coolest SUVs. I test drove another SuperCharged RR and its incredible, it has amazing acceleration, highway acceleration, breaking, turning, etc. Its like a sports car.

3 Days until I can put my order in and then I have to wait :(

[puckhead193]

NICE CAR!!! I like black, esp if your are going to get chrome rims...
what color leather do you plan on getting?
Be sure to post pics

[Abstract]

:(

Well, if you're going to get that monster, can you try going through a car broker (price negotiator) like I did? It saved me around 10% on the car. ;) Since my car was only $18800 (Aussie dollars, not US), and I paid $16700, I actually saved more than 10%, I guess.

Whatever, I just want you to get the most for your money, although I don't know if you can even negotiate on an exclusive car like that. Expensive cars.....sure, negotiate away. But if this is exclusive and will sell out in milliseconds, then fugitaboutit.

[bartelby]

On monday I'm going back to the Land Rover dealership and I am trading in my 2003 Range Rover and my 2001 Range for a new Supercharged Range Rover.

It will have...
400hp Supercharged Jaguar V8 (0-60 in 7sec)
20" Wheels
Navagation System
4WD monitoring system (shows diagram of wheels and where the power is going)
Adjustable Air Suspension
Brembo Breaks
Satillite radio
Grey Interrior w/ walnut trim

I am wondering whether I should get in Black, Silver, or Grey-silver.


I'll miss my 2001 Rover- It was a great car, but its being replaced by one of the coolest SUVs. I test drove another SuperCharged RR and its incredible, it has amazing acceleration, highway acceleration, breaking, turning, etc. Its like a sports car.

3 Days until I can put my order in and then I have to wait :(


Some would ask why exactly you need a rediculously pointless SUV like that?
What's wrong with a smaller normal car?
As a matter of intrest did you know the Range Rover Sport is less fuel efficient than the Ford Model T?

[mad jew]

As a matter of intrest did you know the Range Rover Sport is less fuel efficient than the Ford Model T?


Yeah, but try finding a low mileage T these days. :rolleyes:

I've got no problems with people spending vast amounts of money on cars like this personally. See it this way - purchaser pays premium for said car, excess money goes into R&D for car company to produce even better cars including trying to meet more stringent environmental design standards. Everyone's a winner. :D

Just one point though, good luck trying to see 60mph off in seven seconds with only 400bhp. I realise it sounds like (and is) a powerful engine but when it's made to lug a hefty SUV round, it's a little lacklustre. :(

[Henri Gaudier]

Great to see that the environmental message has found you. Buy something with better mileage for ******* sake. Talk about ostentatious consumerism.

[mad jew]

Great to see that the environmental message has found you. Buy something with better mileage for ******* sake. Talk about ostentatious consumerism.


Maybe that's not the best way to join a new community. ;)

[pseudobrit]

Be sure to shave the badges ;)

[sourcemonkey]

Great to see that the environmental message has found you. Buy something with better mileage for ******* sake. Talk about ostentatious consumerism.

i say keep the laws tight but as this passes the current laws then... well... where do we draw the line? :confused:

I'd say go for the black in this case and enjoy.

[smokeyrabbit]

Well, not to rain on your parade (and I've only owned Land Rovers since getting out of school) but you should take a test drive in the Cayenne (http://content3.us.porsche.com/prod/cayenne/cayenneturbo.nsf/usaenglish/highlightsintro). It has a much better ride and performance in every way.

[EJBasile]

Some would ask why exactly you need a rediculously pointless SUV like that?
What's wrong with a smaller normal car?
As a matter of intrest did you know the Range Rover Sport is less fuel efficient than the Ford Model T?

I do have a normal car- Mecedes E-320 CDi (theres your fuel efficient car)

Also I'm not getting the Sport I'm getting the Range Rover with the 400hp V8.

[virividox]

silver!!!

[Xtremehkr]

Grey-Silver is a nice color. Silver and Black are way too common.Though Black might be most suitable for that vehicle.

[bartelby]

I do have a normal car- Mecedes E-320 CDi (theres your fuel efficient car)

Also I'm not getting the Sport I'm getting the Range Rover with the 400hp V8.

Ah yes! Exactly the same engine but with 10BHP more than the Range Rover Sport.
Less fuel efficient I guess. 17.something miles to the gallon combined!

How much off road driving do you do?

[smokeyrabbit]

Ah yes! Exactly the same engine but with 10BHP more than the Range Rover Sport.
Less fuel efficient I guess. 17.something miles to the gallon combined!

How much off road driving do you do?

Obviously he/she does little to none. I have never seen a '03 or newer RR off road, but with all their electronics most off roaders prefer something easier to repair when you break it in the middle of nowhere. But are you on a personal crusade to stop the 10,000 new Range Rover per year owners? Do you think that a significant amount of pollution is being produced by these vehicles compared to the hundreds of millions of Hondas/Subarus/insert auto manufacturer here ? Let the guy enjoy his cars, jeez.

And, you totally failed to notice the "D" in his mercedes indicates a diesel which gets 30 mpg. Pretty good for 200 HP.

[EJBasile]

Obviously he/she does little to none. I have never seen a '03 or newer RR off road, but with all their electronics most off roaders prefer something easier to repair when you break it in the middle of nowhere. But are you on a personal crusade to stop the 10,000 new Range Rover per year owners? Do you think that a significant amount of pollution is being produced by these vehicles compared to the hundreds of millions of Hondas/Subarus/insert auto manufacturer here ? Let the guy enjoy his cars, jeez.

And, you totally failed to notice the "D" in his mercedes indicates a diesel which gets 30 mpg. Pretty good for 200 HP.

Wow- thank you for taking my side. :)

I never drive off road unless you consider back dirt roads in vermont in the middle of a snow storm. But who acutally takes there SUV off road.

Also note that the 20" wheels are stock- not some ugly custom "pimp" wheels.

I'm definaty getting a grey/black interrior but I've started to like the navy blue. Black, Gray-silver, or Blue.

Trading in my 2001 (60k miles on her) I'm getting $25,000 and my 2003 has a trade in value of 52,000 with 35k miles on it. The dealers had a white with white interrior Supercharged and a red with white interrior with the supercharger at the dealership. Unfortunatly I don't like either of the colors.

[EJBasile]

Well, not to rain on your parade (and I've only owned Land Rovers since getting out of school) but you should take a test drive in the Cayenne (http://content3.us.porsche.com/prod/cayenne/cayenneturbo.nsf/usaenglish/highlightsintro). It has a much better ride and performance in every way.

I believe it has much better preformance, but I don't really like the exterior styling of it, at least not as much as the RR.

[Pismo]

Sweet ride!!! I would go with the black one. I've always wanted a Range Rover but the closest dealer is about 2 hours away. Oh well. I'll be getting a Subaru Legacy GT soon so that'll have to do :)

[jestershinra]

Personally, I'd take black- looks awesome!

[TrashCanDan]

"Canyonero !!!! ye ha!!!"

Smells like a steak and seats thirty-five!

[edesignuk]

Beautiful motor, personally "SUV's" get on my nerves...but still, nice motor :)

[EJBasile]

Sweet ride!!! I would go with the black one. I've always wanted a Range Rover but the closest dealer is about 2 hours away. Oh well. I'll be getting a Subaru Legacy GT soon so that'll have to do :)

Thats another reason not to get a porsche cayanne. The dealership is way to far away. The Land Rover dealership used to be in the next town over about 20min away from my house. They moved and now it is 35min from my house but only 15min away from my work.

The mercedes dealership is 40min away from my house and 30min away from my work.

[Xtremehkr]

You never mentioned that you were considering the Porsche. It's a whole different story now.

[Dr. Dastardly]

I only wish my life's decisions are that hard where I would have to end that post with a frowney face. :p

[bartelby]

And, you totally failed to notice the "D" in his mercedes indicates a diesel which gets 30 mpg. Pretty good for 200 HP.


'D' means diesel? No *****!!!
I didn't fail to notice it at all.
I chose to ignore it, as the need for one person to have two cars is a totally different point (which I will not go into).

The MPG isn't my main problem.
My problem is with people who have absolutely no need for huge (I know a RR isnt the biggest) 4x4s buying them. The 'safety' argument it utter crap.
I really hate the 'as long as I'm alright Jack' type attitude that comes across when people with SUVs talk about safety, have you ever seen what an SUV does to a smaller car in an impact?

I did pick up on the fact they're getting rid of 2 RR to get one though.

[Bakey]

My problem is with people who have absolutely no need for huge (I know a RR isnt the biggest) 4x4s buying them. The 'safety' argument it utter crap.
I really hate the 'as long as I'm alright Jack' type attitude that comes across when people with SUVs talk about safety, have you ever seen what an SUV does to a smaller car in an impact?

Several 'more' than valid points there fella! Although as you rightly corrected yourself later on in your post Range Rover's are clearly no longer 4x4's, they're SUV's [that's called sarcasm].

There really is no need to be purchasing vehicles of this nature unless you live in the middle of nowehere, like... Wales... only joking, I'm only joking!!!

For many years now I've personally been very concerned about the effect of a vehicle of this size hitting a smaller sized one and the carnage it would no doubt cause!! I drive an MR2 Roadster and when you're sat in something that small and when a 4x4 comes up real close you know about it.... the better half has pleaded with me to sell-up as she is so concerned of an 'incident' occuring!! [And the UK weather is crap so roof never comes off!!!!]

Gotta go, there's a Grand Prix to watch...

[EJBasile]

'D' means diesel? No *****!!!
I didn't fail to notice it at all.
I chose to ignore it, as the need for one person to have two cars is a totally different point (which I will not go into).

The MPG isn't my main problem.
My problem is with people who have absolutely no need for huge (I know a RR isnt the biggest) 4x4s buying them. The 'safety' argument it utter crap.
I really hate the 'as long as I'm alright Jack' type attitude that comes across when people with SUVs talk about safety, have you ever seen what an SUV does to a smaller car in an impact?

I did pick up on the fact they're getting rid of 2 RR to get one though.

Well maybe people such as me buy SUVs because a honda civic or toyota corolla won't make i through 2-3 feet of unplowed snow in the winter. The fact is small cars obviously don't weigh as much and have much less ground clearance thus it is very difficult to get through snow.

Unfortuanatly there is nothing anyone can do about the amount of SUVs. The only way that I can think of to get rid of the is raise the gas prices more, but this week the prices went down.

[Abstract]

I wonder how people survived in the snow before SUVs became popular?

I wonder how people lugged their 2 kids, the wife, and all their stuff around before SUVs became popular?

Its such a big mystery. :confused:

[EJBasile]

I wonder how people survived in the snow before SUVs became popular?

I wonder how people lugged their 2 kids, the wife, and all their stuff around before SUVs became popular?

Its such a big mystery. :confused:

I guess they didn't.

[mad jew]

I wonder how people survived in the snow before SUVs became popular?

I wonder how people lugged their 2 kids, the wife, and all their stuff around before SUVs became popular?

Its such a big mystery. :confused:


:::Slaps hand to forehead:::

I can't believe you even had to ask! Everyone knows that parents used giant elephants made of wood that one would simply carve a comfortable niche into with a hatchet before the long trip to school. I believe the main reason this form of transport was superseded by the SUV was the lack cupholders.

[bartelby]

Well maybe people such as me buy SUVs because a honda civic or toyota corolla won't make i through 2-3 feet of unplowed snow in the winter. The fact is small cars obviously don't weigh as much and have much less ground clearance thus it is very difficult to get through snow.

Unfortuanatly there is nothing anyone can do about the amount of SUVs. The only way that I can think of to get rid of the is raise the gas prices more, but this week the prices went down.

Ok, point taken but surely 400bhp can be more of a hindrance than help in deep snow ; )

Here in the UK were paying the equivalent of, approx, $7 a gallon, so I guess we're paying for you guys too!!!

[edesignuk]

Here in the UK were paying the equivalent of, approx, $7 a gallon, so I guess we're paying for you guys too!!!Ultimately we're all going to pay the price :rolleyes: :(

[EJBasile]

Ok, point taken but surely 400bhp can be more of a hindrance than help in deep snow ; )

The 4WD (Full Time-not AWD) system is so awesome on this car. Just push a little lever thing to put her in low gear. Next turn a knob and put the EAS air suspension at the heighest level. Then turn another knob to change the throttle control so that the engine reacts slower for more control. Press a button on the Navigation LCD and it lets you see where the power is being distributed and how the suspension is positioned. Also there is another little lever thing to turn on uphill or downhill assist.

I'm definatly a gadget guy. Thats a quick description of just the 4WD/Offroad functions. You've got to admit that is very cool.

[Xtremehkr]

This thread would benefit greatly if there were more pictures.

[EJBasile]

This thread would benefit greatly if there were more pictures.

I didn't buy it yet. I still haven't ordered it yet. After that it will be a couple weeks. But when I do buy it- pics are definatly going up.

You can go to www.landrover.com to see pictures of it.

I think I'm going to get
Bonnetti Gray Exterior
Jet Black Interrior
Walnut Trim

[Xtremehkr]

Beforehand so comparisons can be made. It's too bad that the Cayenne styling is so understated, it's kinda boring for a Porsche.

http://www.landroverusa.com/us/en/Vehicles/Range_Rover/Photo_gallery_media/Range_Rover_Photos_90BA7511-4512-42CC-9DD1-BF025B6B4F1C_199x599.jpg

http://www.landroverusa.com/us/en/Vehicles/Range_Rover/Photo_gallery_media/Range_Rover_Photos_CC69A90D-FBCA-4726-8B31-D7526CBF5BA0_199x599.jpg

You can't go wrong with black on black, but light interiors are cool too.

[saabmp3]

Look, that's a very nice car, and if that's what you want, then I say "good for you". However, some of these arguments are flawed. SUV drivers don't go through 2 or 3 feet of snow on the ground. Nobody does. Snowplows can't even do that. You would be snowplowing the road with the grill of your 40k+ car.

The 4WD, AWD, etc is going to be basically just as good as any other car or truck with the same tranny type. The air suspension on that SUV is because they use such a ****** frame they needed to soften it up....alot.

I drive a (2001) saab 9-3 (used to be a 1993 Saab 9000). Want to know where I've gone with this thing? Through the rockies, live in the northwest now. Drove it through the snow of upstate NY for 2 years (think some of the worse snow-road conditions know to the US. Almost a foot of snow on the roads. I challenge that I have driven nearly as bad of roads as you have (note, not off roads...but do you do that?? ;-) ). This is all coming from somebody in 2 cars, front wheel drive, TCS enabled OR disabled (more disabling with my new car, a stick). 195 to 215 HP. I'm not talking about a powerful car here. Both of these have posted 28 MPG+ stats (driving cross country, one got 33 mpg on a 195 HP engine, I think that's impressive).

Do you see the point I'm trying to make here? The only thing you can do that I can't is tow. But if you're going to tow something, especially something heavy, a supercharger is NOT what you want. I think EJBasile should get his RR. He wants it. However, I don't think anybody should use any of the above excuses for getting one of these things.

Why don't you just say "I want this car". I get **** all the time for owning one of the quirkies cars ever made. Then I bought another one after having to do lots of repairs after the 100k mile mark. I wanted it. That's why I got it, I didn't have to tell anybody about the mpg marks, price (thank god), features, etc.

Does anybody else agree with me?

BEN

[ProjektJ]

cayenne turbo, and don't look back!

[pseudobrit]

Does anybody else agree with me?

Yes.

I've yet to meet a snowstorm that can overwhelm a VW with traction cables strapped on the front wheels. Unstoppable.

[saabmp3]

Yes.

I've yet to meet a snowstorm that can overwhelm a VW with traction cables strapped on the front wheels. Unstoppable.


Hehe, my "Does anybody agree with me" was more to, we all have some sort of unjustifiable desires than need to be fulfilled, just don't try to justify them. But, now that I think about it, it goes to everything above.

BEN

[EJBasile]

Hehe, my "Does anybody agree with me" was more to, we all have some sort of unjustifiable desires than need to be fulfilled, just don't try to justify them. But, now that I think about it, it goes to everything above.

BEN


Yes thank you. I want it because I want it and I can afford it. Period.

I don't know about the cayanne. I love the sound of turbo chargers but its styling inside and out just does not seem as sophisticated. The dealership for porsche is to far away.

Do you think its wierd that this is my 3rd Range Rover? I think its wierd buying the same car three times. But then again my neighbor has a Volvo XC90, XC70, and S80 all at the same time.

[saabmp3]

Do you think its wierd that this is my 3rd Range Rover? I think its wierd buying the same car three times. But then again my neighbor has a Volvo XC90, XC70, and S80 all at the same time.

I'm 21 and on my second Saab. Granted, it's not a super expensive car, but it's not the normal car that a individual my age could afford....twice. You find something you like and go with it!

BEN

[skubish]

Whatever happened to social responsibility? :confused:

I can burn garbage where I live...but I choose not to.
I can afford electricity...but I choose solar.
I don't have to recycle.. but I choose to recycle.

[EJBasile]

Whatever happened to social responsibility? :confused:

I can burn garbage where I live...but I choose not to.
I can afford electricity...but I choose solar.
I don't have to recycle.. but I choose to recycle.

Tell that to the other bazillion SUV drivers. I don't burn chemicals an I recycle. Because I drive an SUV does that make me a bad person?

[EJBasile]

Beforehand so comparisons can be made. It's too bad that the Cayenne styling is so understated, it's kinda boring for a Porsche.

http://www.landroverusa.com/us/en/Vehicles/Range_Rover/Photo_gallery_media/Range_Rover_Photos_90BA7511-4512-42CC-9DD1-BF025B6B4F1C_199x599.jpg

http://www.landroverusa.com/us/en/Vehicles/Range_Rover/Photo_gallery_media/Range_Rover_Photos_CC69A90D-FBCA-4726-8B31-D7526CBF5BA0_199x599.jpg

You can't go wrong with black on black, but light interiors are cool too.

I prefer dark interiors because it seems easier to keep them clean. Rubber foor mats are a must in the winter.

[mad jew]

Does anybody else agree with me?


Yeah! And well said. I can't even imagine how I'm going to justify this iMac I've got on order when I really don't need do much more than simple paper writing and my iBook seems to have that covered pretty well at the moment. But I wanna iMac and I've got the cash (just) and it's on its way. Enough said!

And on the topic of cars, I've got a 350bhp sedan that rocks! Sure, I don't need a 260km/h top speed, apart from my jaunts to Darwin, but it's great having the power nevertheless. :D

[EJBasile]

Yeah! And well said. I can't even imagine how I'm going to justify this iMac I've got on order when I really don't need do much more than simple paper writing and my iBook seems to have that covered pretty well at the moment. But I wanna iMac and I've got the cash (just) and it's on its way. Enough said!

And on the topic of cars, I've got a 350bhp sedan that rocks! Sure, I don't need a 260km/h top speed, apart from my jaunts to Darwin, but it's great having the power nevertheless. :D

What car is it. Realically we could all be driving 100hp cars they would just really suck.

[pseudobrit]

What car is it. Realically we could all be driving 100hp cars they would just really suck.

Excuse me? My 90hp car does just fine. Quite fun to drive and plenty of power where I need it. It'll pull 75 all day. Almost. I have to stop for 15 gallons of fuel about every 700-800 miles.

There's more than one way to measure performance.

[edit: actually, it'll happily pull over 100 all day without batting an eye, but that's simply impractical on US roads for reasons of law]

[skubish]

Tell that to the other bazillion SUV drivers. I don't burn chemicals an I recycle. Because I drive an SUV does that make me a bad person?

I am not saying you are a bad person, just irresponsible.
I think we all can make better decisions that will benefit all of civilization instead of just ourselves.

And for the record I do tell the bazillion other SUV drivers.

[mad jew]

What car is it. Realically we could all be driving 100hp cars they would just really suck.


I don't have any good photos let alone a place on the 'net to put them up so here's (http://www.holden.com.au/www-holden/action/modeloverview?modelid=4005) a link to the Holden site. I drive a Commodore SS. And I love it. :D

[Chip NoVaMac]

Well maybe people such as me buy SUVs because a honda civic or toyota corolla won't make i through 2-3 feet of unplowed snow in the winter. The fact is small cars obviously don't weigh as much and have much less ground clearance thus it is very difficult to get through snow.

Unfortuanatly there is nothing anyone can do about the amount of SUVs. The only way that I can think of to get rid of the is raise the gas prices more, but this week the prices went down.

I see your point. But what did you drive before the SUV, to get through the heavy snow? Not looking for a fight, but an honest question.

About gas prices. Rising fuel prices only hurt us "working poor". I think that annual tax bills for vehicles that get less than lets say 25mpg highway would help build a nation of conservationists about the gas we use.

[sourcemonkey]

I am not saying you are a bad person, just irresponsible.
I think we all can make better decisions that will benefit all of civilization instead of just ourselves.

And for the record I do tell the bazillion other SUV drivers.

surely there are people expressing irresponsibility in more harmful ways than buying an SUV? Take a look around you. you're sentiments are excellent, but in the grand scheme of things a bit... well, unnecessary. Saying that, if there really are a 'bazillion' SUV drivers we're all in a lot of trouble. :confused:

I liked mad jew's 'trojan elephant' idea though, maybe that's an alternative mode of transport we should resurrect. but then, the forests would suffer.

[saabmp3]

About gas prices. Rising fuel prices only hurt us "working poor". I think that annual tax bills for vehicles that get less than lets say 25mpg highway would help build a nation of conservationists about the gas we use.

Yeah, I hate to say it, but, besides the minimal sticker shock of the final price, rising gas really isn't impacting my driving, or anybody that I work with either. I've been buying gas since it was 75cents/gallon in Iowa. I knew that was dirt cheap. The most expensive part about my car still is and probably always will be the maintenance/monthly payments. Gas just won't come near that (have an $1100 service coming up).

Ben

PS. On the other note, I might need another car for another state. I'm looking at something that's not an embellishment, but cheap. They just happen to also get much better gas milage.

[jiv3turkey748]

I am not saying you are a bad person, just irresponsible.
I think we all can make better decisions that will benefit all of civilization instead of just ourselves.

And for the record I do tell the bazillion other SUV drivers.

dude come on he drives an suv so what get over it

on another note id go with the cayanne but range rovers are pretty sweet too

[EJBasile]

dude come on he drives an suv so what get over it

on another note id go with the cayanne but range rovers are pretty sweet too

The cayanne seems way too popular here.
---
and yes i'm buying an SUV, talking about how "irresponsible" I am is not going to make me change my mind. Just think my mercedes gets much better fuel economy than many of those minivan driving soccer moms.

[pseudobrit]

my mercedes gets much better fuel economy...

Have you looked at the Touareg V10? If I had that much $$ to blow, it'd be my pick. 550+ ft-lbs. of low-end torque'll make that RR look asthmatic. Better mileage to boot.

Plus you delve deeper into the depths of derv-ness.

[EJBasile]

Have you looked at the Touareg V10? If I had that much $$ to blow, it'd be my pick. 550+ ft-lbs. of low-end torque'll make that RR look asthmatic. Better mileage to boot.

Plus you delve deeper into the depths of derv-ness.

VW discontinued the V10 unfortunatly. I doubt anyone was spending 60k on a toureg. Honestly though I think the toureg is better looking inside and out than the cayanne.

[job]

For those of you who are bashing this guy for purchasing an SUV, consider this...

The real world fuel milage of many SUVs pales in comparison to the upper echelon of sports cars (i.e. Porsche, Ferrari, et al.)

The point here is that the criticism of SUV owners that might not take their vehicles off-road is not fair.

If you're is going to critcise SUV owners for not using their vehicles to their fullest, then why not critique the owners of every single Porsche and Ferrari owner who may or may not take their car to the track and race?

Honestly, it's their money, their decision.

He wants one, he can afford it, why try to make him feel guilty about it?

[mad jew]

I hear what your saying job but this is a really bad case to argue by analogy. I don't think any of the environmentalists are saying to get a Ferrari over an SUV.

[job]

I hear what your saying job but this is a really bad case to argue by analogy. I don't think any of the environmentalists are saying to get a Ferrari over an SUV.

Haha, kinda makes you wish they would. :D

Who wouldn't take a Ferrari over an SUV?

Nah, I was just saying that people who don't use their SUVs to go off-road are similar to those who purchase exotics and don't race them.

It's not always a legit critique.

People can use their vehicles for other uses than the intended one it was built for.

I'd sure like to have an Enzo as my grocery-getter. :D :D

[Xtremehkr]

I prefer dark interiors because it seems easier to keep them clean. Rubber foor mats are a must in the winter.

Dark interiors are nice, for those reasons, adds a certain mood as well. Lighter materials are better at showing the quality of the material being used and the workmanship. Comes down to the individual in the end I guess. Though AZ, gets a lot hotter than CT, you would be mad to have a black on black vehicle in AZ unless it had an industrial size HVAC system.

[Xtremehkr]

This post is for the thread in general. I know that SUVs have become contentious vehicles. I am not a great big fan of them myself. But this is EJs purchase and he is just asking for some advice on what people like.

People tend to gang up on eachother in the threads sometimes. I get a little miffed when people speak out against making performance modifications to their vehicles. They tend to not differentiate between those who make real modifications to improve the performance of their vehicles and those who think that some body panels and a lot of stickers are going to make their cars go faster. Even EJ has been vocal about some of this, but a lot can be done to a vehicle (performance wise) without changing how it looks on the outside. They are basically the same things that have been done to the model he is considering buying, just not by the factory.

I'm not advocating SUVs, just recognizing that people do have the right to operate these vehicles if they choose.

That doesn't mean you shouldn't promote what you like about your vehicle, or a similar vehicle that you think it better. But there is a diverse group of vehicle owners here. I've probably been guilty of the same things, but considering the diverse viewpoints I've decided that it is probably better just to accept that there are going to be differences in opinion.

[Blurb]

VW discontinued the V10 unfortunatly. I doubt anyone was spending 60k on a toureg. Honestly though I think the toureg is better looking inside and out than the cayanne.

EJ, I agree with you about the toureg looking much better than the cayenne. But, did you know they have the same body (manufactured by VW)? Porsche just finishes the cayenne differently (obviously). The main difference from the front view is the grill and headlights: the cayenne's is just plain ugly. But look at the two from the rear, and you'll see how alike they are!

Actually, I hope they reconfigure and bring back a downsized version of what the V10 was s'posed to be: a higher performing, higher torqued/hp, more efficient clean-burning diesel engine. But the extras on that 60K model added so much weight to the vehicle, that the mpg improvement was almost lost. Still, a V10 engine in that heavy of a vehicle (~2.5 tons) getting 18-20 mpg's on average is impressive. They just need to make it less expensive and less heavy by about 1000 lbs. and it would easily sell and get 30+ mpg! Diesel engine technology is far ahead of hybrids. And in 2006 the US will be able to import the higher grade/cleaner burning diesel fuel that's been in Europe, etc for a while now.

One could be a horrible SUV-driving person and environmentally conscious too! :p

[EJBasile]

I've been in boston for the past 3 days so I've been able to see more cars that you don't see as much in the suburbs.

I saw a bunch of cayannes. I like them more now than I used to but I still don't like them as much as the RR. I am considering going down to the porsche dealership and test driving them. I also saw a Mercedes G-500 which for some reason to me is cool looking even though I can see how some people would not like it. I read a review on the G-55 AMG and it said it went for 0-60 in 4.7sec (according to motortrend). If that is true the is just incredible. That boxy shape does not look very areodynamic

I'd consider the toureg but one of my parent's car is the Passat W8 and they absolutly hate it. At first they liked it but before long they began to hate it. It was very unreliable, fairly expensive to fix, the dealers was far away, the dealership was not very good, and the thing required often trips to the gas station as you can imagine (VW somehow forgot to put in a bigger gas tank to accomdate the larger engine). Another person I know had the V6 Passat and hated it. It to was unreliable, and its headlights burnt out all the time. I am just concerned about VWs reliabiity. Also my brother in law has the toureg V8 so I don't want to be copying him LOL. I'll have to ask him about the reliability of his.

[pseudobrit]

the dealership was not very good

Par for the course with 'Dubs. I've got 3 dealers within 25 miles and they all suck realy bad in at least one department.

Great cars if you like to turn your own wrenches though.

[EJBasile]

Par for the course with 'Dubs. I've got 3 dealers within 25 miles and they all suck realy bad in at least one department.

Great cars if you like to turn your own wrenches though.

Unfortunatly I don't really like to turn my own wrenches, I'll be too afraid I did something wrong. The VW near me according to my mother says is horrible. When they change the oil they aways get grease/oil crap inside the car and if they give you a rental car they put enough in it to get it started and out the driveway.

[codycartoon]

It may be your "right" to buy it but just be prepared to get the nasty looks that you have coming when you drive this car around.

Whenever I see a car like that on the road I look at it like I do a fat kid who eats an entire box of fudge popsicles then drops all the trash on the ground. I'm slightly disgusted, annoyed, frustrated, and at the same time I feel sorry for the person. I just shake my head and move on and hope that maybe the rest of the world is thinking about something other than themselves.

-cody

[mpw]

Some would ask why exactly you need a rediculously pointless SUV like that?
What's wrong with a smaller normal car?
As a matter of intrest did you know the Range Rover Sport is less fuel efficient than the Ford Model T?

Unless I've missed it you don't say what you drive, would be kinda interesting to know.

[EJBasile]

It may be your "right" to buy it but just be prepared to get the nasty looks that you have coming when you drive this car around.

Whenever I see a car like that on the road I look at it like I do a fat kid who eats an entire box of fudge popsicles then drops all the trash on the ground. I'm slightly disgusted, annoyed, frustrated, and at the same time I feel sorry for the person. I just shake my head and move on and hope that maybe the rest of the world is thinking about something other than themselves.

-cody

I feel sorry for people who complain about things that they can't really make a difference about. Like people who complain about how bad Bush is nonstop. You might say hes made bad decisions but that is debatable. But seriously if he is so horrible, why did he win? I'm not going to get into government politics or fuel economy issues. Seriously Bush unless he does something to get him impeeched hes not leaving and unless gas prices go up to $5 a gallon or they suddenly stop making SUVs, I'm not going to buy a Honda Insight, Toyota Corolla, Honda Civic, Kia Sophia, Ford Focus, Hundai Elantra, etc.

[crazytom]

I can't help myself.

Let me start by saying, congratulations on your choice. It is your choice how you want to spend your money. More power to ya.

On the flip side, environmentalism aside, we seem to be a world of efficiency. That's why we want faster internet, faster computers, double paned thermal insulated windows, efficient home heating and cooling....everything wanted is wanted better, faster, smaller, cheaper. It's the 'smart' thing to do, right? Cars (at least in the US) seem to be a big exception. Bigger and faster seems to be the status quo. I've driven a Geo Metro for the past 15 years...and yes, gone through foot deep snow with it. I figure that I've saved over $17,000, in fuel savings alone, over that time period compared to the fuel economy of an SUV. It gets me from point A to point B. Style means nothing to me. I guess I'm just not one of those people that needs an object to make me feel good. I also must say that the amount of SUV's, mini-vans and other big trucks on the road MAKE ME NERVOUS. I'm in a car that's almost too small to see from one of those things...and believe me, when I see some idiot on a cell phone, I stay well away!!! Anyway, I ramble.

All in all, I'm happy to see those speaking out against big cars...it's a welcome change. And, even though I don't personally support the 'needless' purchase of a big car, it's a free country (um, er, well, it seemed it once was) and if you can afford it; they will sell it!!! It's what the US government is spending $491 billion dollars a year to fight for, isn't it? (that's the proposed defense budget for next year). So, even though that I, for one, are very displeased with big personal vehicles (personal safety, mainly), I say, "Bring it on!" The sooner we run out of oil, the better!!!!

Congratulations, again. It sounds like you'll be very happy with your purchase. Are you going to get the spinner hubcaps and thumpin' subwoofer, too? ;) :D

[EJBasile]

I can't help myself.

Let me start by saying, congratulations on your choice. It is your choice how you want to spend your money. More power to ya.

On the flip side, environmentalism aside, we seem to be a world of efficiency. That's why we want faster internet, faster computers, double paned thermal insulated windows, efficient home heating and cooling....everything wanted is wanted better, faster, smaller, cheaper. It's the 'smart' thing to do, right? Cars (at least in the US) seem to be a big exception. Bigger and faster seems to be the status quo. I've driven a Geo Metro for the past 15 years...and yes, gone through foot deep snow with it. I figure that I've saved over $17,000, in fuel savings alone, over that time period compared to the fuel economy of an SUV. It gets me from point A to point B. Style means nothing to me. I guess I'm just not one of those people that needs an object to make me feel good. I also must say that the amount of SUV's, mini-vans and other big trucks on the road MAKE ME NERVOUS. I'm in a car that's almost too small to see from one of those things...and believe me, when I see some idiot on a cell phone, I stay well away!!! Anyway, I ramble.

All in all, I'm happy to see those speaking out against big cars...it's a welcome change. And, even though I don't personally support the 'needless' purchase of a big car, it's a free country (um, er, well, it seemed it once was) and if you can afford it; they will sell it!!! It's what the US government is spending $491 billion dollars a year to fight for, isn't it? (that's the proposed defense budget for next year). So, even though that I, for one, are very displeased with big personal vehicles (personal safety, mainly), I say, "Bring it on!" The sooner we run out of oil, the better!!!!

Congratulations, again. It sounds like you'll be very happy with your purchase. Are you going to get the spinner hubcaps and thumpin' subwoofer, too? ;) :D

Spinner Hubcaps- Well first of on that expensive of a car why would you want hubcaps LOL. ABSOLUTLY NOT ughhh- I saw a Range Rover the other day and it had the "RANGE ROVER" and "HSE" badges taken off of it, It was painted a ultra glossy grey silver, it had i would guess 22" big wide chrome wheels, chrome grill, modified tail lights, etc. And I just though, look what you've done to your $80,000 car!!! Its like tattooing your whole body (not to offend anyone). I really hate when people "pimp there ride". If I order my RR I'm going to get wheel locks to protect my Stock 20" wheels :).

As for the Audio System it will have a stock Harmon Kardon Logic 7, 710 watt sound system. Which is 14 speakers I think, a Subwoofer built in, 6 CD changer, and Sirius Satillite Radio. I don't really care though since I don't blare my music.

The Range Rover in my opinion is one of the best SUVs available. I think they look good, they have an awesome interrior, and *supposidly* they do well off road. Aside from the air suspension the ignition located in the center consule area cool (like the old SAABs).

What I don't understand right now Is why the HSE RR with the 305hp engine is $75,000 and up while the V8 LR3/Disco 3 (300hp) is $45,000 and up. The LR3 is bigger, more seats, same engine I'm guessing except for 5hp, more advanced off-road system. Strange. I like the RR more though, the LR3 looks like a ambulance or a herse.

[efoto]

If you want an SUV, buy one. If you prefer a hybrid, buy one. This is really a null arguement in a consumeristic America to say "you shouldn't get that because...." The point is he has the money, he prefers the RR for reasons A-Z (which he shouldn't even share a single one, they don't matter he prefers it) and its a nice car. What gives people? Let him get what he wants.

You could make silly arguements about EVERY aspect of life and EVERY purchase. Sure you can argue that a 30" Cinema has a ton of space and can therefore lend itself to be more productive for the .4% of the population who would effectively utilizie that resolution. How many people who own 30" displays actually REQUIRE all that space? Expose, minimize, I get by on a 12"PB screen with a lot of stuff, but given the chance, I would sure as hell buy a 30" if I had a budget for one.

EVERYTHING is preferences and affordability. He has a preference, he can afford it, let him do it and don't banter and bi*ch the whole thread down to telling him he is a bad person for wanting a cool product. Jeesh.

[efoto]

That said, to answer the initial question and a few other brief ones:

The VW Toureg is one, Porsche Cayenne, Mercedes G500, BMW X5, are all in a relative similar performance/market segment. I think that LR/RR are always the better off-road performers, the hardcore SUV that actually have some potential off-road. Personally, I think a RR looks a hell of a lot more comfortable on a trail than a Cayenne would any day.

I think that the Toureg has much better style than the Cayenne, and I have not ever seen a X5 up close, but I like the look of those too, but I love the RR for both styling and features, I think its a great choice.

Color: I think black is classic, but from experience I can say its hard to keep it looking good. Use only top-level soaps and cleaning tools when you wash it, NEVER go through an automatic car-wash as they leave TONS of marks in your coat, and twice a year have a professional (and skilled) detailer run over your exterior and remove the swirlmarks and such left by washing. You MIGHT have a glossy black paintjob still after two years, but I doubt it. It looks amazing, but shows EVERYTHING!
BMW has an amazing 'midnight blue metallic' or something like that I have seen of a few cars, and I simply love this color. There is a little more sophistication to a non-black/white car IMO, and the dark blues accomplish it very well.
I have a silver over black Audi A4 that I love, but the black interior gets VERY hot even here in MI (classic summers around 75º-85ºF) so depending on your temp, its really warm when you get it.
The posted photo looks awesome with black on camel with the dark brown piping, really classy I think.

Anyway, best of luck with whatever you decide. Keep us posted, and be sure to post some pics when you get it. Do that cool thing that RR always does where you park one wheel on a rock and balance the chassis with the adjustable suspension (seems its always on display like this, looks awesome). Thanks :D

[pseudobrit]

I also must say that the amount of SUV's, mini-vans and other big trucks on the road MAKE ME NERVOUS. I'm in a car that's almost too small to see from one of those things...and believe me, when I see some idiot on a cell phone, I stay well away!!!

I ride a road bike in traffic. You sit inside a ton of steel Geo and I sit atop 19 pounds of aluminium LeMond and you're the nervous one.

[pseudobrit]

What I don't understand right now Is why the HSE RR with the 305hp engine is $75,000 and up while the V8 LR3/Disco 3 (300hp) is $45,000 and up.

It costs $30,000 more simply because people will pay $30,000 more to have the extra status symbol.

I wouldn't buy Range Rover because I prefer to be discrete.

I'm guessing you'll be writing off the purchase against small business taxes. That or you've got more money than you know what to do with.

[840quadra]

I've been in boston for the past 3 days so I've been able to see more cars that you don't see as much in the suburbs.

I saw a bunch of cayannes. I like them more now than I used to but I still don't like them as much as the RR. I am considering going down to the porsche dealership and test driving them. I also saw a Mercedes G-500 which for some reason to me is cool looking even though I can see how some people would not like it. I read a review on the G-55 AMG and it said it went for 0-60 in 4.7sec (according to motortrend). If that is true the is just incredible. That boxy shape does not look very areodynamic

I'd consider the toureg but one of my parent's car is the Passat W8 and they absolutly hate it. At first they liked it but before long they began to hate it. It was very unreliable, fairly expensive to fix, the dealers was far away, the dealership was not very good, and the thing required often trips to the gas station as you can imagine (VW somehow forgot to put in a bigger gas tank to accomdate the larger engine). Another person I know had the V6 Passat and hated it. It to was unreliable, and its headlights burnt out all the time. I am just concerned about VWs reliabiity. Also my brother in law has the toureg V8 so I don't want to be copying him LOL. I'll have to ask him about the reliability of his.

I have a Modified 2000 Passat 1.8t. It has given me 120k miles of trouble free driving. It gets 32 MPG when driven nice, and when pushed, will do 0-60 in the 6 second range (chip, exhuast, and a few other induction mods). I didn't buy it, and modify it to have it be a street racer, I just wanted power, and low cost.

It is funny that you would consider a cayenne on itself and look down on the Touareg because of it being a VW. The V6 engine in the Cayenne (note the lack of S and turbo ) is a Volkswagen 3.2l VR6. The V8 engine in the Touareg is a slightly less potent version of the same V8 that is in the Cayenne, and the Cayenne Turbo, is also the same V8, but optimized for boost. Both SUV’s were developed at the same time, by both companies in a cooperative effort that spanned almost 6 years. Much of the Swithgear in the Porsche, is of VWAG design, and built in the same factory as the parts for the VW. The irony of the deal is, the Porsche Cayenne has had more issues since it’s production start, then has the Touareg.

[jayb2000]

...
I'd consider the toureg but one of my parent's car is the Passat W8 and they absolutly hate it. At first they liked it but before long they began to hate it. It was very unreliable, fairly expensive to fix, the dealers was far away, the dealership was not very good, and the thing required often trips to the gas station as you can imagine (VW somehow forgot to put in a bigger gas tank to accomdate the larger engine)...

Actually, they DID put in a bigger gas tank, that is why the W8 has only a doughnut spare instead of a full size like the 4 and 6 cyl.
I have a 2002 1.8T Passat and its got over 70,000 miles on it. Besides tires and routine maintenance, no problem here.

[crazytom]

I ride a road bike in traffic. You sit inside a ton of steel Geo and I sit atop 19 pounds of aluminium LeMond and you're the nervous one.

And when I'm roller blading and you're riding by with your 19 pounds of aluminum? :D :p

At least you can see over ~my~ car when you're on your bike!!!

And a SUV makes you less nervous than a Geo? At least if you get hit by a Geo you have a good chance of rolling over the hood!! What are you doing biking on the expressway, anyway? That's illegal around these parts. :)

But, similar to your situation, I have to be very cautious and alert while driving. I think having a small car makes me a safer driver because it's mainly my safety I'm concerned about; I can't afford to hit anything (even a cyclist). I don't have a big engine that would allow me to be an aggressive driver. Most people in big cars think they're 'safe'. No matter what kind of vehicle you're in, going from 30+ mph to 0 will hurt!

I saw the epitome of idiocy this morning: this woman driving behind me was talking on her cell phone AND smoking a cigarette. I couldn't tell if she was driving with her knees or not... Sheer genius! :rolleyes: I'll give her bonus points for actually staying in her lane, though.

[EJBasile]

I have a Modified 2000 Passat 1.8t. It has given me 120k miles of trouble free driving. It gets 32 MPG when driven nice, and when pushed, will do 0-60 in the 6 second range (chip, exhuast, and a few other induction mods). I didn't buy it, and modify it to have it be a street racer, I just wanted power, and low cost.

It is funny that you would consider a cayenne on itself and look down on the Touareg because of it being a VW. The V6 engine in the Cayenne (note the lack of S and turbo ) is a Volkswagen 3.2l VR6. The V8 engine in the Touareg is a slightly less potent version of the same V8 that is in the Cayenne, and the Cayenne Turbo, is also the same V8, but optimized for boost. Both SUV’s were developed at the same time, by both companies in a cooperative effort that spanned almost 6 years. Much of the Swithgear in the Porsche, is of VWAG design, and built in the same factory as the parts for the VW. The irony of the deal is, the Porsche Cayenne has had more issues since it’s production start, then has the Touareg.

I like the toureg more that the cayanne. The dealerships are too far away, the nearest VW dealer is not great, and VWs reliability seems to be unstable. I saw another cayanne on the road and I have come to conclusion that the front is ugly, the back is ugly, and the interrior is horrendous. Seriosuly look at one of the cheaper cayannes and you will find the interrior is comparable with a much less expersive car. The toureg however is much supportier looking, has a pretty neat interrior, and all around IMO is a cool car. Again the dealership is to far away and not very good from what I hear.

I could wait another year or so and find out what the mercedes g-class will look like.

[ipacmm]

I could wait another year or so and find out what the mercedes g-class will look like.

From what I have seen, the new G will look like the new ML, I found this picture of the new G and I personally don't like it along with the new ML. I would get the Range Rover if I were you.

[EJBasile]

From what I have seen, the new G will look like the new ML, I found this picture of the new G and I personally don't like it along with the new ML. I would get the Range Rover if I were you.

It wouldn't look as bad if they didn't put the spare on the back. Hopefully they won't actually do that. I really have never liked the MLs. They look like minivans with nonsliding rear doors. I wonder how the current G-class is. Aren't they based on the original galaenderwagon (or something like that) which is a german military vehicle?

[ipacmm]

Aren't they based on the original galaenderwagon (or something like that) which is a german military vehicle?

They are based on the Gelaendewagen and you couldn't really get them in America and then like in 2001 or something like that Mercedes bought the company that made them (they just used the Mercedes parts) and refreshed the G line and now it is apart of the Mercedes cars sold in America, but from where I saw the pictures they said:

Mercedes is taking a chance by exchanging the G-Wagen's tough truck style for a more modern look, but expect it to have all of the capability of its predecessor and a half decent ride to boot.

What We Know: These are the best pictures yet of the 2006 Mercedes G-Class sport-ute. Following close on the heels of the new 2006 M-Class and 2006 R-Class SUVs, the second-generation G is expected to debut at the Frankfurt motor show in September. Unlike the current G-Class that has been around for decades wearing a hard-edged, military-inspired look, the next-generation model goes in a completely different direction that will place it more in line with other full-size luxury SUVs in terms of packaging and comfort. Built on the same chassis as the M- and R-Class vehicles, the G will most likely feature a fully independent air suspension in place of the current model's straight axle setup to give it much improved on road ride and handling characteristics. For those who want to preserve the G's heritage as a fully capable backcountry machine, an off-road package will be offered that will add low-range gearing and locking differentials among other things. Powertrain options haven't been revealed, but a variation on the 5.0-liter V8 used in the M- and R-Class SUVs is the most likely scenario along with a seven-speed automatic transmission. Interior comfort will be this G's biggest upgrade as the current model suffers from a decades-old design that places utility above ergonomics. A more natural driving position, improved interior materials and three rows of seats should make this G-Class better suited for the kind of urban family hauling it's most likely to see. Production is expected to start toward the end of this year at Mercedes' plant in Tuscaloosa, Alabama, with sales starting early next year.

http://www.edmunds.com/future/2006/mercedesbenz/gclass/100511160/preview.html?tid=edmunds.f.photos.leftsidenav..0.Mercedes-Benz*

[EJBasile]

I think the current G is cool looking. I know that people think there discusting though. I wish they would get better wheels. It looks like it would be fun to drive- nice flat winshield- probably a fairly rough ride. I'm suprised they haven't given it Air Suspension yet. The RRs have had EAS (elec. air sus.) for more than 10 years.

[ipacmm]

I think the current G is cool looking. I know that people think there discusting though. I wish they would get better wheels. It looks like it would be fun to drive- nice flat winshield- probably a fairly rough ride. I'm suprised they haven't given it Air Suspension yet. The RRs have had EAS (elec. air sus.) for more than 10 years.

I agree, I do like the current G w/ black on black, I think it looks the best on the car. But I really like the new Reange Rover, how did you like your 2003?

[gwuMACaddict]

this has been bugging me for some time, and i've got to spit it out...

how in the world do you make enough money that you can afford all these toys, but you can't use "there" and "their" and "they're" correctly in a sentance?

sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeesh :rolleyes: :D

[mad jew]

how in the world do you make enough money that you can afford all these toys, but you can't use "there" and "their" and "they're" correctly in a sentance?


I imagine it'd be from correcting sentences. ;)

[gwuMACaddict]

i never attacked the dude's spelling... (would have taken too long)

i was just amazed at the grammar

[mad jew]

Yeah, sorry gwuMACaddict, I was just being annoying and pedantic. :(

[gwuMACaddict]

no worries! :D

[evilernie]

I wonder how people survived in the snow before SUVs became popular?

I wonder how people lugged their 2 kids, the wife, and all their stuff around before SUVs became popular?

Its such a big mystery. :confused:

No mystery. They drove big-ass station wagons with V-8's that ran on leaded gas with no emission controls.

Today, we have fancy SUV's that are a hundred times more efficient. Deal with it. Some of us just cannot, or choose not to, get by with a small car.

Edit: Why is it any more responsible when people drive Corvettes or Mustangs that have gas-hog engines with room for two and no trunk space?

[pseudobrit]

No mystery. They drove big-ass station wagons with V-8's that ran on leaded gas with no emission controls.

Today, we have fancy SUV's that are a hundred times more efficient.

"Fancy" SUVs return 10-14 mpg in mixed driving. I wasn't aware that a 3mpg increase on highways (which is due to paving and tire advances) could qualify as (even in hyperbolic terms) a 1000% increase.

In the biggest volume year ever for station wagons, they made up 5% of total vehicle sales. SUVs account for nearly half of today's auto sales.

Station wagons of that era were just as efficient as the sedans of that era. Not everyone could afford the big V8.

Perhaps the bigger story here is that auto companies have found a way to repackage the same "high technology" they sold two generations ago and somehow convince people it's an huge advance. Apparently some people are willing to believe that.

[pseudobrit]

Why is it any more responsible when people drive Corvettes or Mustangs that have gas-hog engines with room for two and no trunk space?

Who said it was?

[EJBasile]

this has been bugging me for some time, and i've got to spit it out...

how in the world do you make enough money that you can afford all these toys, but you can't use "there" and "their" and "they're" correctly in a sentance?

sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeesh :rolleyes: :D

LOL i'll take that as a joke. Usually I confuse there/their to/too etc if I'm typing fast and thinking faster than I am writing. It amazing how many people write "Your invited to..." instead of "You're invited to...". I really hate grammer.

Oh and if you really want to know Old Money + I'm a doctor + real estate +stocks + no wife or kids. For instance 40-50 years ago my father purchased a lot of beech property in RI for a pretty cheep. He had some houses built and sold them, he sold some of the land. He's held onto some of it at now its worth a lot.

[EJBasile]

The RR Sport is starting to grow on me. It seems more advanced than the normal RR. And its only 56,000 base.