The Borg vs. the SW Empire [Archive]

Kethoticus

Oct 20, 2002, 09:55 PM

This will get lotsa people on both sides of the sci-fi fence defending their favorite imaginary universe, but this is my take on it.

In spite of the Federation's success against the Borg, I feel that the Borg would eventually defeat and assimilate the SW Empire. Here's my scenario:

Borg cube detects a massive, artificial satellite. The complexity of the technology intrigues them. They move into the defensive perimeter of the Death Star, encountering warnings from a fleet of star destroyers to leave their space or be destroyed. The Borg do not respond, but instead continue to move in. The star destroyers begin to open fire, but their laser cannons are no match for the Borg shields. The Borg fire back.

They take out segments of several star destroyers, analyzing and assimilating the technology, converting the corpses into organic nutrients for the collective. Tie fighters swarm the Borg vessel, but they are slowly swatted out like flies--or ignored entirely. Several star destroyers are completely destroyed. Others receive "visitors" from the Borg vessel, employing dematerialization--something the Empire is stunned by. The Borg gather tactical information on the fleet, but find the Death Star's specs encrypted and quite secure. But the relentless Borg do not give up.

With the fleet wrecked, only a handful of tie fighters left, the Death Star begins to rotate in the direction of the Cube. The Emperor has given the order to prepare their doomsday weapon. He is notified that they too have received Borg scouts. He senses a powerful mind coming from the cube, and he determines why--it is the minds of the hundreds of thousands of Borg soldiers acting as one. He can not use the Force so easily here. He depends on his technological marvel instead.

The scouts gather their tactical information of the Death Star, and beam back to their ship. They send a message to the Death Star. A concerned and curious Emperor gives the order to let it through. "We have analyzed your defensive capabilities as unable to withstand us. If you attempt to defend yourselves, you will be punished."

Emperor Palpatine responds: "Who..." He is cut off. Out of his swelling anger and hatred, Emp Palpatine gives the command: "Fire into the heart of that ship, commander!" He does.

A brilliant green flash emanates from the giant sphere. The cube is obliterated. The emperor gives the order to scan for additional cubes, but none are found. His concern now is that rebel forces will be able to take advantage of a depleted imperial military, so he gives the order to regroup and rebuild as quickly as possible.

6 months later...

A new Borg cube enters into imperial space. Many star destroyers have been reconstructed and now have advanced weaponry. But they are still no match for the Borg. After some minimal damage to the cube, they adapt and become impervious yet again. The emperor wastes no time this time. He doesn't want his healing fleet to suffer any more damage. He gives the order to blow this cube out of the sky--again.

Their super-weapon powers up. A dozen or so individual green beams unite into one and strike the Borg cube. A brilliant yellow-green flash emanates from the strike point--but the massive, industrial-looking cube is undamaged. A sense of dread comes over the emperor and Darth Vader--these people have the ability to adapt! They need to depend on the Force.

The cube moves in and fires its energy weapons at several key points, eventually knocking out the shields and great weapon of the Death Star. They are toothless. The Borg cube begins to laser-out chunks of the Death Star, digesting them. Borg soldiers beam onto the Death Star in large numbers, easily overpowering and assimilating many storm troopers. They also begin to assimilate the Death Star itself. The order was given to put the Death Star into self-destruct mode, but it was too late. The Borg had taken control of the computers.

The Emperor and Darth Vader try to use mind control to stop the individual Borg soldiers, but are no match for the power of their collective mind. They're able to strike a few down with light sabres and energy bursts from their hands. But the Borg adapt quickly. Their only recourse is to escape.

Within weeks, the empire becomes a massive Borg colony. No more life on any imperial or rebel planets--except for Borg. The Borg have won. The Jedi and other surviving members of the empire and rebel forces have run for their lives. But the society they once knew is gone. Their only hope is to regroup elsewhere and try to rebuild their civilization--as far from the Borg as possible.

britboy

Oct 21, 2002, 04:30 AM

You always were a strange one kethoticus...... :rolleyes: Did you by any chance have a little too much time on your hands?

You forgot one thing though: the borg gain the powers of those they assimilate. Therefore, by assimilating the emperor and darth vader, they too would have the ability to use the force. Thousands of borg, all with a perfect control of the dark side of the force, would easily be able to seek out the remaining jedy (just as Yoda was able to feel the disturbances in the force when a jedi was in action, even on different planets), and destroy/assimilate them. This would clearly mean that the jedi would be exterminated, once and for all! :D

sturm375

Oct 21, 2002, 02:00 PM

1 Mind, or many minds, it makes no difference in the ways of the Force. 1 Borg drone gets to the Death Star, the Emporer mind controls that drone+all others in direct contact. Soon, the whole borg race is destroied. Remember in the imortal word of Yoda: "Size matters not."

mischief

Oct 21, 2002, 02:20 PM

Borg Success really would depend on where in the SW chronology they emerged. At the point of Episode 3 (1st DeathStar) the result would likely be Borg victory.....at first.

In assimilating a cloned Sith and his apprentice Dark Jedi they would immediately begin to splinter as the very natures of the Borg collective and the Dark Side ate away at each other like a Cancer. Assimilation of the incredibly selfish and nihilistic Sith would be the ultimate behavioural virus for the Borg.

The requisite Compassion/nihilistic Hatred inherent in Force Awareness would be like plugging a rat into a lightsocket via it's hindbrain: The Collective would be lobotomized by a vast new data-set it is totally unequipped to process.

Had the Collective emerged into the 1st Sith/Jedi War at the peak of Sith Power and Jedi talent there would have been some heavy **** go down. With both sides of the Force available for simultanious sampling the Borg would have a very slim chance of emerging as "Grey" Jedi.... Functionally walking the tightwire between sides. Ultimately Assimilating Force Awareness would be the Borg's undoing.

Mr. Anderson

Oct 21, 2002, 02:38 PM

That's all well and good - but the Klingons could probably take out the Death Star if they could assemble a nice armada. The Tie Fighters wouldn't do much of anything to the shields of the Battle Cruisers - and the Force (SW4, say) wasn't used by enough entities to have been any matter in the outcome. Even if Darth Vader could have managed to get on board the Klingon Flag vessel, it would be too late.

As for the Borg and the Force - well, wouldn't you have to have some sort of awareness of your own relationship to the Force? No sense of uniqueness, 'I', the Borg would consider the Force irrelevant and plow on ahead, unless Darth or the Emperor could get control of the Borg through one member. That would be freaky - because then the Empire would end up enslaving the Borg. Or if Yoda or Obi-Wan got to them first.

D

sturm375

Oct 21, 2002, 02:45 PM

You are all assuming that the Borg could assimilate The Force. The borg have assimilated telepathic races before, but they don't have telepathy. What makes you think The Force would be easier?

God, I love these absolutely fictional, pointless debates, don't you:D

mischief

Oct 21, 2002, 02:53 PM

Originally posted by dukestreet
That's all well and good - but the Klingons could probably take out the Death Star if they could assemble a nice armada. The Tie Fighters wouldn't do much of anything to the shields of the Battle Cruisers - and the Force (SW4, say) wasn't used by enough entities to have been any matter in the outcome. Even if Darth Vader could have managed to get on board the Klingon Flag vessel, it would be too late.

As for the Borg and the Force - well, wouldn't you have to have some sort of awareness of your own relationship to the Force? No sense of uniqueness, 'I', the Borg would consider the Force irrelevant and plow on ahead, unless Darth or the Emperor could get control of the Borg through one member. That would be freaky - because then the Empire would end up enslaving the Borg. Or if Yoda or Obi-Wan got to them first.

D

Being that the given scenario allows for both Palpatine AND Vader being present (so I guess it's really the Second DeathStar) 2 of the baddest Ass Sith ever to commit an atrocity would be that immediate individualism. Darkies are entirely self-referential.

Either Assimilation would kill them, they would Dominate that one Cube or Force Awareness would spread with cataloging and backing up the "self" of Vader or Palplatine. The issue is that the very essence of the Sith would either really dick with at least that 1 Cube or the process of assimilation would fail and both adepts would die in the process..... their Force Essence would then haunt the Cube though.... and that would SUCK.

I think the Klingons are a good choice for facing the Empire's war machines but they would be using Force as raw combat "chi" pretty darn fast after entering that Universe. A Lightsaberized Batlith (sp?) ......Ick.

The really bad news would be the Borg assimilating a Jedi Padawan, Force aware but not totally trained.

Worse yet: Picture Romulans capturing and effectively merging with the Empire.

mischief

Oct 21, 2002, 02:57 PM

Originally posted by sturm375
You are all assuming that the Borg could assimilate The Force. The borg have assimilated telepathic races before, but they don't have telepathy. What makes you think The Force would be easier?

God, I love these absolutely fictional, pointless debates, don't you:D

See: I always guessed that the Borg were only viable because they had either started out as or assimilated early a powerful Telepathic Race. The reason I figure this is the case is that in order to have collective consciousness in any fuctional way you'd need the "splitting of mind" neccesary for Telepathy. I always guessed that The Borg were an embarassing Vulcan State Secret gone horribly wrong.:D :eek:

Mr. Anderson

Oct 21, 2002, 03:00 PM

Originally posted by mischief

Worse yet: Picture Romulans capturing and effectively merging with the Empire.

I almost mentioned them, they'd do as good a job as the Klingons, but more subtly, not with force of weapons, but by stealth. Although, Vader or Palpatine would be able to guide the Death Star Weapons to hit a cloaked Romulan ship. It'd be interesting as well.

diorio

Oct 21, 2002, 03:06 PM

Yes, I think the borg would win, just because of their ability to adapt. While I like both Star Trek and Star Wars, I find Star Trek to be a little more realistic, just because it is based from Earth and Earthlings. Star Wars is based on a long time ago in a galaxy far far away... Far away from what? Don't get me wrong, I love Star Wars, Star Trek is just a little more realistic, more science based.

sturm375

Oct 21, 2002, 03:11 PM

All you'd need is a single Enterprise-E. Firering photon torpedos at Warp 5, it's not even a contest. Talk about "Drive by shooting":D For that matter, any of the major powers in ST would have an easy time in the SW universe, as long as they didn't mess around with negotiating. Even a Sith Lord, dies in the vacuum of space.

diorio

Oct 21, 2002, 03:14 PM

Originally posted by sturm375
All you'd need is a single Enterprise-E. Firering photon torpedos at Warp 5, it's not even a contest. Talk about "Drive by shooting":D For that matter, any of the major powers in ST would have an easy time in the SW universe, as long as they didn't mess around with negotiating. Even a Sith Lord, dies in the vacuum of space.

Yes, an Army of Clones isn't going to stand up very well against a couple of Romulan Warbirds or Klingon Birds of Prey.

mischief

Oct 21, 2002, 04:05 PM

How about SW versus Dune?

OR

ST vs. Predator/Alien

OR

Highlanders in SW?:eek:

Got it: Aliens Versus Borg. Battle of the Hive Minds.:D :rolleyes:

topicolo

Oct 21, 2002, 04:29 PM

It's no contest. A ST ship can take out anything without shields. Eg. Bablyon 5 ships, SW ships, etc. They just need to beam some bombs/photon torpedos to the engine cores of the ships. BAAAAM! They're gone. With this in mind, a little shuttlecraft with a big ass fission/fusion bomb can probably take out a star destroyer.

mc68k

Oct 21, 2002, 04:34 PM

The Sun Crusher from the Jedi Academy series and I, Jedi would be the most powerful weapon. It was fired upon by the death star and was only thrown off course. It could destroy suns with it's torpedos, and if flown by a jedi, it would be unstoppable.

mc68k

Oct 21, 2002, 04:38 PM

Originally posted by topicolo
It's no contest. A ST ship can take out anything without shields. Eg. Bablyon 5 ships, SW ships, etc. They just need to beam some bombs/photon torpedos to the engine cores of the ships. BAAAAM! They're gone. With this in mind, a little shuttlecraft with a big ass fission/fusion bomb can probably take out a star destroyer. The Interdictors from the Empire, and special rebel frigates can prevent ships from going into hyperspace/warp by powering up gravity wells. They could be destroyed by being attacked while being held at bay.

IMHO, the ST weapons/technology are MUCH more far-fetched than their SW counterparts.

Durandal7

Oct 21, 2002, 05:09 PM

Originally posted by mischief
How about SW versus Dune?

Well that would depend on who from the Dune universe you're talking about. The fremen with Paul as their leader are very crafty and could possibly seize control of the Empire or Republic. Imagine if Paul became force aware, the Kwisatz Haderach with a lightsaber!

The prior Imperium in Dune would not fare so well, as politics would limit them from being effective enough to defeat the Empire. Not to mention that the Spacing Guild would most likely make a deal with Palpatine to assist in overthrowing the golden lion throne in exchange for Arrakis.

mischief

Oct 21, 2002, 05:50 PM

The "Honoured Matres". BG on crack versus the Sith controlled Empire of Episodes 4-7.:eek:

Durandal7

Oct 21, 2002, 06:00 PM

Originally posted by mischief
The "Honoured Matres". BG on crack versus the Sith controlled Empire of Episodes 4-7.:eek:
I think the Honored Matres would tear the empire to shreds. Especially when they catch wind of the death stars.

Mr. Anderson

Oct 21, 2002, 06:00 PM

But if you think about it, Vader is a Borg without the Collective....

But different universes, different laws. The whole thing about gravity wells and hyperdrive doesn't really apply to ST, in ST if you go to warp around a sun you get to do some Time Travel.....

So with transporter powers, well, that would be enough to finish the job. Transport bombs, people, etc. anywhere. Game over man!

D

mischief

Oct 21, 2002, 06:27 PM

Originally posted by dukestreet
But if you think about it, Vader is a Borg without the Collective....

Please, elaborate on this observation?

As to the conflicting Physics sets: I'm working with the classic Comic-book handicap rules: Host Universe's rules apply. Non-conflicting properties like Dune's Spice or the Borg's Nanites would carry. Dilithium, however would be limited to whatever they brought with them, this gives Romulan Tech a distinct advantage.

Plus: Gravity well time travel was about Slingshot Effect boosting high-velocity hyperspatial ships past C in Hyperspace.

Transporters would be either non-operable in a different Timespace or would be unreliable without a pad at both ends. There would be substantial "subspace noise" from the interstellar com-links used in SW. It'd be like using a Cellphone in a powerplant.

Analyzing and comparing the 2 techs it becomes clear that only a few things set ST appart from SW: Weapon's use in FTL, FTL maneuvering, Transporters. The SW weapons systems are mostly of very similar types.... but for the beefier SW power supplies available in hardened installations. The killer App is of course the Force factor, Which ST races would be "Force enabled" to begin with? How would the over-the-top built in Sanity/Karma aspect of Force effect these races?

For that matter: how comparable are the two Shields and Drive technologes? If the ST Shields are designed to prevent ANY intrusion when active than there would be a displacement and luminance issue in FTL travel. Not to mention the overall power level question.....

Plus the styles of Battle change things:The Enterprise, knowing the Federation would attempt contact 1st thing and get taken.

Mr. Anderson

Oct 21, 2002, 06:40 PM

Originally posted by mischief

Please, elaborate on this observation?

Plus: Gravity well time travel was about Slingshot Effect boosting high-velocity hyperspatial ships past C in Hyperspace.

Transporters would be either non-operable in a different Timespace or would be unreliable without a pad at both ends. There would be substantial "subspace noise" from the interstellar com-links used in SW. It'd be like using a Cellphone in a powerplant.

Plus the styles of Battle change things:The Enterprise, knowing the Federation would attempt contact 1st thing and get taken.

1. Darth is part machine and part man - Borg like - that's all, nothing more profound, sorry.

2. You're laying down your own rules on all of this - my assumption was that each tech would work, regardless. Rules just make things overly complicated and if it ever ended up a movie, well, there wouldn't be any explanation, unless it was something like the Heisenberg Compensators in ST - simple explanation for something that just isn't possible (that we know of, avoids problems of getting on with the movie).

3. All depends on the Captain. Going to a new universe, well, shields would be up until things settled out. Kirk would end up fighting Darth Vader with a light saber and winning, and there would be a woman/alien involved. Picard, well, he'd come up with a solution somehow, through some prolonged and agonizing plot twist. Janeway, pretty much the same thing as Picard, but she would be loosing till the very end and then something would miraculously happen that would save the day. Sisco with the defiant and Odo (the trump card), would just handle it like it was just another day at the Wormhole....

D

Kethoticus

Oct 21, 2002, 10:59 PM

....this is the kind of debate I was hoping to start. No arguments. Nothing serious here. Just fun speculation.

3. All depends on the Captain. Going to a new universe, well, shields would be up until things settled out. Kirk would end up fighting Darth Vader with a light saber and winning, and there would be a woman/alien involved. Picard, well, he'd come up with a solution somehow, through some prolonged and agonizing plot twist. Janeway, pretty much the same thing as Picard, but she would be loosing till the very end and then something would miraculously happen that would save the day. Sisco with the defiant and Odo (the trump card), would just handle it like it was just another day at the Wormhole....

Funny. I liked that, especially the part about Kirk and an alien babe.

Hey.... here's one: Kirk vs. the Borg. I could picture him going into one of his dramatic, over-acted speeches that would short-circuit the entire Borg Collective, with Spock standing to his side, raising his eyebrow and going, "Fascinating." I mean, could you ever picture Kirk being assimilated as a spokesman for the Borg?

Spock

Oct 21, 2002, 11:30 PM

Originally posted by mischief

S I always guessed that The Borg were an embarassing Vulcan State Secret gone horribly wrong.:D :eek:

No I don't think so.

First the Borg would not destroy Star Destroyer's they would assimilate them. Second. if a Borg Cube were to be destroyed by the Deathstar The Borg would return in greater number's and overcome the Deathstar.

Durandal7

Oct 21, 2002, 11:48 PM

Kethoticus

Oct 22, 2002, 01:29 AM

I agree with Spock. I don't see the Borg sending just one Cube, especially to assimilate an entire galaxy.
We have seen the Borg attempt to assimilate another galaxy (unsuccessfully) with a spectacular number of cubes. The Death Star destroying a cube so easily would only cause the Borg to see how valuable it is and make them return in droves.

Not necessarily true.

First off, in reply to the previous post, if the star destroyers opened fire on the Borg cube, the Borg would forget all about assimilation and defend themselves first. When they entered Wolf 359, they came with only one cube and attacked a fleet of Federation and Klingon ships.

Unless the Borg felt that they were seriously outmatched, they would send only the amount of force needed to get the job done, which they usually feel is only one ship. After preparing a defense for the Empire's weapons, why would they need to send in more than one cube?

Amadeus

Oct 22, 2002, 02:07 AM

as has already been mentioned, the 2nd death star did have a shield. While I think that the Borg would have no trouble taking out the "legion of troops" left guarding the shield generator, I don't believe that they would ever get that far really.

After all, the Rebellion of Star Wars lore only was victorious because of Luke Skywalker. He was a prize possesion. They wanted to convert him to the dark-side.. and that destroyed the Empire's whole strategy. What really happened was that Luke distracted Vader and the Emporer for long enough that Solo was able to bring down the shield and the Rebellion fleet was eventually able to destroy the Death Star. Were it not for Luke's "sacrifice", they would have been royally screwed, as Admiral Ackbar thought.... and as the Borg would be also. Sure, they may assimilate some troops from the legions of Star Destroyers, but that is an inconsequential loss for the Emporer and Vader.

If anyone has read the William Zahn - Admiral Thrawn series, you will know what I'm talking about-- the Jedi-master dictating the entire battle... how he can control very specific movements of the fighters while maintaining a grander sense of the battle. With 2 Jedi-masters (emporer, vader), you can only assume that they could control their fleet with precision, but also begin some counter-offensive from within the Borg units. After all, control 1 clone/drone, and you can control the rest of them... seems simple enough.

Also, since you can't "beam" through shields, the Borg would have to take out Endor's shield generator first.. since it covered the Death Star AND Endor, that would prove to be tough... without code access (that the Rebellion stole of course).. Still, even if the Borg cracked the code (only a matter of time or assimilation of high officers)... they would have to complete the ground assault. Without the assistance of a Jedi on the Death Star and the Ewoks -- he he -- the Borg would get slaughtered eventually, even if they managed to take down the shield-- what Borg fighter is going to get into the middle of the Death Star to destroy it?!?? Right, they don't have any. Proton/Photon torpedos my butt.. they weren't even effective on the first Death Star unless they got in that 1 small exhaust shaft. While the Borg Cubes appeared big compared to the puny Star Trek fleet, they still pale in comparison to the size of a planet (which the Death Star approximately equalled).

And, after all, those star trek shields seem to break down pretty damn quickly!! A couple phaser shots and they are ka-put! The death star's laser would frickin destroy a Borg Cube easily. I mean, for god's sakes, the thing had enough power to destory whole frickin planets.. that is way more power than ST could ever dream of. Even if they could adapt their shields to the laser, I just find it hard to believe that they could overcome its intensity. Alright, let's pretend that they could... they still wouldn't have a chance because they would be physically destroyed by the star destroyers and tie fighters (yes, kamikazee if necessary) -- just like the death of the "Super Star Destroyer"

In conclusion, Borg chances = slim to none (and slim just left).. after first Death Star laser strike.

If you factor in the Queen, then things get even easier for the Emporer and Vader. Ha ha..

For some reason, I sense some anti-Star Wars sentiment in this thread... and it is probably a result of the newest 2 movies.. because I know people don't hate the original 3 movies.. that is like geek-heresy or something. Don't let your alliances be shifted so easily. First of all, Star Trek is weak. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy Star Trek immensely (especially TNG), but the need to rationalize everything is pretty weak. I definitely prefer the supernatural "Force" of Star Wars to the "fake science" of Star Trek. The Force is spiritual and earthy where the "fake science" is phony, flawed, and hopelessly overdone. Also, the first 3 Star Wars movies are the bomb diggity, you can't take that away.

So, in my opinion, the Borg have no chance whatsoever against the Intergalactic Empire ... even the pathetic starship Voyager with worthless Captain Janeway managed to destory a significant number of Borg. Sorry, but that is beyond pathetic. The Death Star and the Force would dominate these lowly drone morons. Even if they do make good Star Trek villains.. they would never make good Star Wars / Hollywood villains.. heck, I think even Jeff Goldblum could figure out how to beat them... implant a virus or something. He he.

"Do not underestimate the powers of the Emporer, or suffer your father's fate you will"

he he.. well, someone needed to chime in from a hardcore SW perspectve.

-Amadeus

mischief

Oct 22, 2002, 11:50 AM

That's what I've been trying to get across!

ST has WAY too many technical hiccups. Not to even get into the whole power-level issue. I would guess that Borg tech would fare better than ST Federation Tech but would still have a serious problem with the whole Force/Weak Minds issue.

Plus the Subspace Noise of Imperial Comm traffic should not be ignored. Transporters rely on "clean" subspace to function. With tons of Jammers, High powered Comm traffic and Encrypted burst transmissions I would think Transporters would be seriously hampered in any occupied system. The Empire would also figure the carrier frequency out pretty fast and jam that bitch shut.

It's like comparing Soviet and US RADAR. US Stuff is really high tech, High frequency and cool but low-power, Soviet stuff is Low frequency and REALLY LOUD. Consequently in direct plane-on-plane confrontations the Soviet systems have better field of view, longer range, and burn through US jammers fairly easily.

sturm375

Oct 22, 2002, 01:27 PM

Originally posted by mischief
That's what I've been trying to get across!

ST has WAY too many technical hiccups. Not to even get into the whole power-level issue. I would guess that Borg tech would fare better than ST Federation Tech but would still have a serious problem with the whole Force/Weak Minds issue.

Plus the Subspace Noise of Imperial Comm traffic should not be ignored. Transporters rely on "clean" subspace to function. With tons of Jammers, High powered Comm traffic and Encrypted burst transmissions I would think Transporters would be seriously hampered in any occupied system. The Empire would also figure the carrier frequency out pretty fast and jam that bitch shut.

It's like comparing Soviet and US RADAR. US Stuff is really high tech, High frequency and cool but low-power, Soviet stuff is Low frequency and REALLY LOUD. Consequently in direct plane-on-plane confrontations the Soviet systems have better field of view, longer range, and burn through US jammers fairly easily.

While I respect, and admire your scientific knowlege, this is Sci-Fi. It's friggen fiction, stop disecting it, and enjoy.

2 Corrections/points to ponder:

1) The Death Star was the size of a small moon, not a planet.

2) I believe it was stated on an episode of ST, that a borg cube has a powersource equal to a star. That is a lot of power, possibly enough to overpower even the Endor-Death Star shields.

Don't get me wrong, I still think that The Force would kick the borg's @ss, but I don't think SW tech is equivent to ST tech.

BTW: To the science guy's, explain the functioning of a lightsaber. Is this item any more, or less plausible than a transporter? I've seen "debunking" shows before, and one of the main issues they all have, is the concept of a force field. They say there is only 4 forces in existance in this universe, and none of these allows for the concept of a force field.

mischief

Oct 22, 2002, 01:40 PM

Originally posted by sturm375

While I respect, and admire your scientific knowlege, this is Sci-Fi. It's friggen fiction, stop disecting it, and enjoy.

That's exactly it though: some of the basic power-level ratios and tech handicaps would have to be resolved, which is exactly what we're doing: haggling over which fictional minutia would translate from ST to SW and which would translate from SW to ST. There is also the Jargon issue to be solved: ST calls it Subspace, SW calls it Hyperspace.....etc.

BTW: Anyone seen the SW RPG? The Force rules in that game sucked major orifice.:p :rolleyes:

sturm375

Oct 22, 2002, 02:10 PM

Originally posted by mischief

That's exactly it though: some of the basic power-level ratios and tech handicaps would have to be resolved, which is exactly what we're doing: haggling over which fictional minutia would translate from ST to SW and which would translate from SW to ST. There is also the Jargon issue to be solved: ST calls it Subspace, SW calls it Hyperspace.....etc.

BTW: Anyone seen the SW RPG? The Force rules in that game sucked major orifice.:p :rolleyes:

Yep, SW RPG sucks, although, the version I had, I was able to GM a pretty fun game. I tend to concentrate much more on the story, and character development, the hack n' slash. Same company ruined the DC Universe RPG as well.

To get back to the "All consuming, All encompusing, Tech/Geek/Sci-Fi wars."

What I ment about disecting, instead of enjoying is this: Let's not debate about the fisibility of transporters, force fields, The Force, and such. Accept the fact that it's all fiction, and that within this fiction, it works.

Now that I've said that, imagine this battle royale between ST and SW happens in the DC universe. A borg, force enabled, Superman:eek:

mischief

Oct 22, 2002, 02:30 PM

Originally posted by sturm375

Yep, SW RPG sucks, although, the version I had, I was able to GM a pretty fun game. I tend to concentrate much more on the story, and character development, the hack n' slash. Same company ruined the DC Universe RPG as well.

To get back to the "All consuming, All encompusing, Tech/Geek/Sci-Fi wars."

What I ment about disecting, instead of enjoying is this: Let's not debate about the fisibility of transporters, force fields, The Force, and such. Accept the fact that it's all fiction, and that within this fiction, it works.

Now that I've said that, imagine this battle royale between ST and SW happens in the DC universe. A borg, force enabled, Superman:eek:

Ack. I can't help but point out that Borg Nanites would have some problems assimilating a Kryptonian physique anywhere near a yellow sun.

Besides: there is a simple "icky" tweak to the Borg that would just flatten the SW Universe. Assume the 1st Cube goes nuts from assimilating one or the other Sith Master and destroys itself. A last-minute message is sent back to the Collective dumping all data on the exchange. The Collective discovers the "medichlorions" (sp?) referred to in Ep. 1 and begins cloning Super Sith Drones! :eek:

The Collective becomes a giant Force-enabled Juggernaught: a Force unto itself with it's own logic-based Karma system! The next Cube sent to the SW Universe would carry this Force with it uniting all the Force Energy of THOUSANDS of Sith Master level Drones under the control of a Queen powerful enough to pop Palpatine's head like a zit!:eek:

I always figured there were 2 ways to pop the SW RPG: Either play entirely WITHOUT a Jedi present OR run a "Grey" Jedi of a new Species of Force Aware Apex Predators.

The_Wookie

Oct 22, 2002, 02:34 PM

I have a pencil drawing from 4 years ago on how the Borg would Assimilate the Death Star. I'll put it up as soon as I have it scanned.

Pismo

Oct 22, 2002, 03:45 PM

First of all, Star Trek is crap. And to put an end to this Borg crap, the Death Star could destroy anything the stupid Borgs could throw at them. An lastly, the Sith are not stupid enough to get "Assimiliated". SHEESH!!!

diorio

Oct 22, 2002, 03:52 PM

Originally posted by Pismo
First of all, Star Trek is crap. And to put an end to this Borg crap, the Death Star could destroy anything the stupid Borgs could throw at them. An lastly, the Sith are not stupid enough to get "Assimiliated". SHEESH!!!

Maybe Pismo is crap. Don't just come onto a thread and blatantly flame the topic. Have an educated opinion and try to present it so. Lots of people like Star Trek, lots like Star Wars. You can like them cocurrently without conflict. They both have their good and bad sides. The Borg would probably assimilate the Empire and the death star. Yes, the Sith are stupid enough to get "assimilated", but guess what, we'll never see it because they come from two different shows. Imagine that. You sound like one of the geeky guys who has read every Star Wars book and has no life. Try Star Trek, it's good too, just more realistic.:rolleyes: :mad:

Kethoticus

Oct 22, 2002, 10:21 PM

...I bring up a topic that should be FUN for the lot of us, and what happens? We got people in here insulting others. There is nothing to get angry about here. It's supposed to be FUN! SO START HAVING FUN!!!!!

I disagree with Amadeus, but I appreciate his enthusiasm for the thread. I need to get off this thread now (it's taking too much time to keep responding at length), but I did want to address one point quickly:

If anyone has read the William Zahn - Admiral Thrawn series, you will know what I'm talking about-- the Jedi-master dictating the entire battle... how he can control very specific movements of the fighters while maintaining a grander sense of the battle. With 2 Jedi-masters (emporer, vader), you can only assume that they could control their fleet with precision, but also begin some counter-offensive from within the Borg units. After all, control 1 clone/drone, and you can control the rest of them... seems simple enough.

The Borg run similarly, although they depend more on collective decisions rather than the orders of one man. Imagine about 500,000 Borg all combining their brains to solve a single tactical problem. They will come up with a strategy faster than any single individual can even acknowledge the problem. That's what makes the Borg so deadly. I agree that Janeway should never have been able to defeat the Borg so easily. But I chalk that up to unrealistic Hollywood writing rather than to the ineptness of the Borg. The concept behind them is scary, as I can think of little to defend against something like that with the exception of running (or Species 8472).

diorio

Oct 23, 2002, 08:30 AM

Originally posted by Amadeus

If anyone has read the William Zahn - Admiral Thrawn series, you will know what I'm talking about-- the Jedi-master dictating the entire battle... how he can control very specific movements of the fighters while maintaining a grander sense of the battle. With 2 Jedi-masters (emporer, vader), you can only assume that they could control their fleet with precision, but also begin some counter-offensive from within the Borg units. After all, control 1 clone/drone, and you can control the rest of them... seems simple enough.

-Amadeus

By the way, its Timothy Zahn, and the Jedi Master was Jorus C'baoth.;)

Lz0

Oct 23, 2002, 08:50 AM

Nice! Not sure what Lucas would think of it all. Next time you have a spare 5 min perhaps you could write one on how and when the Borg assimilate Bill Gates and his NT technology thus giving them an instant blue screen of death destroying all Borg for all time.

sturm375

Oct 23, 2002, 09:14 AM

Originally posted by Lz0
Nice! Not sure what Lucas would think of it all. Next time you have a spare 5 min perhaps you could write one on how and when the Borg assimilate Bill Gates and his NT technology thus giving them an instant blue screen of death destroying all Borg for all time.

Bill Gates is irrelevent.
NT is irrelevent.
Blue Screen of Death is irrelevent

You Will Comply.

Mr. Anderson

Oct 23, 2002, 09:20 AM

Originally posted by sturm375

Bill Gates is irrelevent.
NT is irrelevent.
Blue Screen of Death is irrelevent

You Will Comply.

All your bases are belong to us.....

Imagine if Jobs was assimilated - the borg would go through a redesign -

iBorg

Lz0

Oct 23, 2002, 09:34 AM

Originally posted by sturm375
You Will Comply.

NEVER!!!

Mr. Anderson

Oct 23, 2002, 10:20 AM

You will be iSimilated!

mischief

Oct 23, 2002, 10:27 AM

Now that's a mod that fits the whole Thread topic!

"Only a precise hit on the power button will de-activate the Cube........ Otherwise we'll have to get it to chase us perpendicular to the center axis of the frame such that it thinks it's fallen over and shuts off." ;)

Mr. Anderson

Oct 23, 2002, 10:29 AM

Ha, but look at the up side

100% Market Share!

mischief

Oct 23, 2002, 10:39 AM

I can see it now:

"Welcome to BorgOS X, Software Update has determined that your vessel is in need of assimilation click "OK" to continue (OK being all that's offerred)"

"Propriety is Irrelevant, you will be opensourced and assimilated."

"Oh...... and just 1 more thing: Resistance is Futile.":D

vniow

Oct 23, 2002, 10:40 AM

Hey duke, is that a real mod or a Photoshop?
I'd luv2 have my future Cube look like that.http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/veronica/grinning.gif

Amadeus

Oct 23, 2002, 10:57 AM

Originally posted by diorio

By the way, its Timothy Zahn, and the Jedi Master was Jorus C'baoth.;)

Ahhh, thanks diorio. :) I had a feeling I was getting Zahn's name wrong, and I just couldn't remember the name C'baoth... its just been so long since I read those books. They were so good too.

Duke, that cube is awesome.

I'm no graphics artist, but maybe I can inspire someone... It sure would be cool to grab one of those old 'sphere' mock ups (from where, I don't know) and turn it into the death star.. he he.

- Amadeus

Mr. Anderson

Oct 23, 2002, 10:59 AM

Ha, glad you like it - but I have to say that its just a little photoshop job I did this morning. It would be a cool mod for a cube though. :D

But once the iBorg gets on the internet it will automatically start iSimilating all computers, including ones running windows..... ;)

Kethoticus

Oct 23, 2002, 11:51 AM

Dukestreet, nice work.

vniow

Oct 23, 2002, 11:54 AM

Eve if it only exists in Photoshop, it will surley become a real mod in the future.http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/veronica/grinning.gif

Mr. Anderson

Oct 23, 2002, 12:04 PM

If you print out the image on mylar (not paper) and slide it between the case and the shell, that would work for the image. Getting the green glow might be a little more work.

vniow

Oct 23, 2002, 12:11 PM

I just posted the image over @ Cubeowner.

And I think someone did a similar iBorg mod awhile ago @ Resexcellence, but it didn't look like that. Wow.
http://forums.tactical-ops.to/images/smilies/borg1.gif

Mr. Anderson

Oct 23, 2002, 12:14 PM

Originally posted by edvniow
I just posted the image over @ Cubeowner.

And I think someone did a similar iBorg mod awhile ago @ Resexcellence, but it didn't look like that. Wow.
http://forums.tactical-ops.to/images/smilies/borg1.gif

ah, you posted it? show me the link please.

vniow

Oct 23, 2002, 12:24 PM

Enjoy. (http://www.cubeowner.com/forums//index.php?act=ST&f=9&t=452)

Mr. Anderson

Oct 23, 2002, 12:28 PM

In the future it would be best to ask first before posting someone else artwork at another site. I don't mind, generally, but its poor form.

D

vniow

Oct 23, 2002, 12:30 PM

Sorry duke, I was just trying to get some exposure for it.http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/veronica/damn.gif

Mr. Anderson

Oct 23, 2002, 12:48 PM

I appreciate that and its ok - but some people might not like it if you post their work. I was a little worried till I saw it, because you don't even know under what context its posted. Like I said, if you want to do it in the future, just ask, I'll probably say ok.

D

Durandal7

Oct 23, 2002, 05:09 PM

I have seen a mod of a glowing B&W tower before that used blue LEDs, I'm sure the same could be accomplished for the Cube.

Mr. Anderson

Oct 23, 2002, 05:12 PM

Originally posted by Durandal7
I have seen a mod of a glowing B&W tower before that used blue LEDs, I'm sure the same could be accomplished for the Cube.

I'd love to see someone do this - hell, it'd be worth having a cube just to have something like that sitting on your desk. But of all the cube mods, I've not seen any that glow.

vniow

Oct 23, 2002, 05:21 PM

Originally posted by dukestreet

I'd love to see someone do this - hell, it'd be worth having a cube just to have something like that sitting on your desk. But of all the cube mods, I've not seen any that glow.

http://www.cubeowner.com/projectbluecube/bluecubeon555.jpg (http://www.cubeowner.com/projectbluecube/)

Durandal7

Oct 23, 2002, 05:27 PM

It doesn't seem like it work unless the cube case was made translucent. Wasn't there a way to do that to the iBook shells?

vniow

Oct 23, 2002, 05:34 PM

Ummm.....I think the Cube's case IS translucent, it's just a matter of getting the light in the right spots.http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/veronica/smiley.gif

mischief

Oct 23, 2002, 05:43 PM

though it would be a lot of work and definitely would void any warranty.

1st things 1st: Polycarbonate carries light very much the same way as water so getting LED's into partially-drilled holes behind the Apple logo on the front would be a good 1st step. This would conceal them and get the green light "flowing" in the right general effect. Hiding other recessed LED's in the vent-frame and the frame atop the Optical drive would even out the effect.

Next there is the issue of power. It would be adviseable to figure out how many LED's and where they should go while using a powersource and control breadboard that's effectively just for testing so load can be determined without modding any internal components. Once the load and drive circuitry has been built as an external part it will be neccessary to tuck it in somewhere o tie it into the Cube's power supply somehow.

The coolest effect would be to tie it to the controller for the "power" indicator LED inside the switch assembly and swap out that white LED for another green one..... this would mean that the whole frame would glow and pulse in sync with the wake/sleep state of the machine.

:D :D

Mr. Anderson

Oct 23, 2002, 05:44 PM

That doesn't work all that well when the light is at the bottom. Gettin the Apple logo to glo would be tough. Anyone got a cube they'd like to donate? I'll give it a go - I'm sure I could come up with something reasonably simillar to my photoshop version.

D

mischief

Oct 23, 2002, 05:46 PM

If we're just R&Ding making it Glow we just need the shell.

vniow

Oct 23, 2002, 05:49 PM

Try the guys over @ Cubeowner.
That pic I posted has gotten quite a few views, and they're pretty friendly there, maybe one of them would donate you one.http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/veronica/smiley.gif

Mr. Anderson

Oct 24, 2002, 08:05 AM

There was a post there that showed an actual mod from a spherical Borg image, dosn't look as good, due to the nature of the image - distorted and doesn't provide a clean seam at the back.

Just for *****s and giggles I submitted it at spymac in one of there contests, people really like it, even though its not real....

D

MacJagger

Oct 24, 2002, 09:50 AM

there are some things you all forgot.
An imperial-class star-destroyer has 60 turbolaser-turrets plus the same amount of ion-cannons, should be already enough to kick the b out of org.
Ion-Cannons should be the worst foe to the borg it wouldn´t just disable the cube it would disable the crew too.
I´m just talking about one single star destroyer having a big fleet of them with some of the ten super-class ones plus the star-destroyer would be just too much for the borg.
On the surface of a planet there is no force in the whole star trek universe to match the empire, klingons might be good at using there badleths but an at-at walker wouldn´t really care about it.
One last thing: The emperor can control weak-minded creatures and no one can tell me that a drone is very intelligent, so if he could control one drone a backlöoop would give him control over thewhole hive.
Now i will stop annoying you with my bad german english

sturm375

Oct 24, 2002, 10:03 AM

Originally posted by MacJagger
there are some things you all forgot.
An imperial-class star-destroyer has 60 turbolaser-turrets plus the same amount of ion-cannons, should be already enough to kick the b out of org.
Ion-Cannons should be the worst foe to the borg it wouldn´t just disable the cube it would disable the crew too.
I´m just talking about one single star destroyer having a big fleet of them with some of the ten super-class ones plus the star-destroyer would be just too much for the borg.
On the surface of a planet there is no force in the whole star trek universe to match the empire, klingons might be good at using there badleths but an at-at walker wouldn´t really care about it.
One last thing: The emperor can control weak-minded creatures and no one can tell me that a drone is very intelligent, so if he could control one drone a backlöoop would give him control over thewhole hive.
Now i will stop annoying you with my bad german english

Keep in mind that the ion cannon is built to disable SW tech, which is based on electrical wire conduction. Most ST tech is based on plasma conduction. Plus they have to get through the shields of the ST ship before the ion cannon can even hope to work.

Also, the Enterpirse-D was able to produce somewhere in the terawatt range of power. A borg cube produces thousands of times that amount of energy. I just think that the ST universe packs a whole lot more punch in a smaller package, than anything the SW universe can muster.

I do agree with the whole control one, control the whole hive mind theory though.

One last thing, I've mentioned this before, ST ships can fire while in warp. It's really hard to hit a moving target, especially one moving several times the speed of light.

Mr. Anderson

Oct 24, 2002, 10:27 AM

Originally posted by sturm375

One last thing, I've mentioned this before, ST ships can fire while in warp. It's really hard to hit a moving target, especially one moving several times the speed of light.

Ah, no. Its all done with firing solutions (like todays navy and torpedos). Computers calculate the trajectory and place the shot where it will be by the time the ship gets there.

One thing that really bothers me with most SciFi is that the firing off weapons done by humans and not controlled by computers. Look at the smart weapons we use today vs. the regular weapons used during WWII. Given enough advances in technology, faster computers, intelligent computers too - all the droids in the SW universe, it seems to me the only reason the weapons miss is because the shows and movie need 'Drama'.

MacBandit

Oct 24, 2002, 10:39 AM

Originally posted by dukestreet

Ah, no. Its all done with firing solutions (like todays navy and torpedos). Computers calculate the trajectory and place the shot where it will be by the time the ship gets there.

One thing that really bothers me with most SciFi is that the firing off weapons done by humans and not controlled by computers. Look at the smart weapons we use today vs. the regular weapons used during WWII. Given enough advances in technology, faster computers, intelligent computers too - all the droids in the SW universe, it seems to me the only reason the weapons miss is because the shows and movie need 'Drama'.

This is a good point and the reason I laugh at, "Enterpris," so hard. In Enterprise they manually target there torpedos and when they fire they look like something that a submarine would have fire in WWII. They should look more like moder cruise missles, fast, precise, self guided.

mischief

Oct 24, 2002, 10:47 AM

Both Universes have annoyed me for some time with the atmospheric-vectorized flight and motion. There's no reason for these craft to be travelling relative to their longitudinal axis full-time, it's space fer gods' sakes!

If you're lookin for better overall motion and battle in space go rent the Macross series from Harmony Gold. Really nice space battles and the typically over-the-top Anime flair for over-gunning.:D

Now there's a matchup! SDF-1 versus SW!:eek:

The main anti-ship cannon on SDF-1 is rated as the following: "Absolutely destroys EVERYTHING in a column of fire 5 miles wide and 25,000 miles long." :eek: Ion cannons my ass!;)

MacBandit

Oct 24, 2002, 10:52 AM

Originally posted by mischief
Both Universes have annoyed me for some time with the atmospheric-vectorized flight and motion. There's no reason for these craft to be travelling relative to their longitudinal axis full-time, it's space fer gods' sakes!

If you're lookin for better overall motion and battle in space go rent the Macross series from Harmony Gold. Really nice space battles and the typically over-the-top Anime flair for over-gunning.:D

Now there's a matchup! SDF-1 versus SW!:eek:

The main anti-ship cannon on SDF-1 is rated as the following: "Absolutely destroys EVERYTHING in a column of fire 5 miles wide and 25,000 miles long." :eek: Ion cannons my ass!;)

I understand your problem. Why do ships always pull up next to each other facing up in the same direction? Why does a space ship have a top and a bottom(except the borg)? They do travel up and down though. That is the Mark# given when they are plotting a course. If I remember right Mark is the degrees up or down off the galactic plane.

It doesn't really make a lot of since when you think that in todays dogfighting planes spend nearly as much time upside down is they do right side up. So why is it in a space show they insist on being upright.

Mr. Anderson

Oct 24, 2002, 11:28 AM

I'm going to start another thread on this I think - lots of good stuff dealing in physics and such of space.

D

MacJagger

Oct 24, 2002, 01:36 PM

It is psychological problem. 2 or more planes dogfighting isn´t such a big problem but imagine 200 star-ships fighting , if you know something about tactics you will see how difficult it is to plan such a battle on a 2d battleground it way more difficult to do that in 3d. The human mind can hardly work in moving 3d environments

Mr. Anderson

Oct 24, 2002, 01:41 PM

Originally posted by MacJagger
It is psychological problem. 2 or more planes dogfighting isn´t such a big problem but imagine 200 star-ships fighting , if you know something about tactics you will see how difficult it is to plan such a battle on a 2d battleground it way more difficult to do that in 3d. The human mind can hardly work in moving 3d environments

Ha, speak for yourself there. I think and dream in 3D, don't know whether its something I learned from doing Architecture in school and working in 3D on the computer or something I had a knack for.

But computers don't have that sort of problem/limitation. And given the right type of displays, its not hard to represent the data intelligently. Remember that a lot of it is simplified for the audience in these shows. Someone with training could learn much more than some one just looking at it on a tv show. And orchestrating a large battle in space would be very cool. Taking battle tactics to a third dimension, you'd need massive computers all talking to each other. Very cool stuff.

sturm375

Oct 24, 2002, 01:46 PM

What about submarine combat tactics?

Mr. Anderson

Oct 24, 2002, 01:56 PM

Originally posted by sturm375
What about submarine combat tactics?

Its a modified version of the normal 2D tactics but with layers, there are layer boundaries in the oceans that have different temperature water that prevent sonar from passing through. This is a simplified description, I only read about it once and don't know all that much.

But airplane combat is effectively 3D, so humans have been doing 3D tactical analysis for decades.

MacJagger

Oct 24, 2002, 07:19 PM

there is no problem working in 3d on an archtitectural way because you always know where the ground is also analysing 3d dogfight not so difficult for the same reason. You already it, it is just working in 2d with layers. Are not able to work like this because they have not the full sight, but humans have a helping organ, I don´t know how it is called in english I mean the one between the ears and helps you too keep the balance, this organ tellls a pilot where the ground is they couldn´t fly without this help.
In outer space this help is missing, it will not be possible to work without orientation.
believe me it is fact that the human mind is not able to work like this

Mr. Anderson

Oct 24, 2002, 08:37 PM

Originally posted by MacJagger
In outer space this help is missing, it will not be possible to work without orientation.
believe me it is fact that the human mind is not able to work like this

I don't think so. A reference plane is provided, made up by the mind if necessary. You're on a ship, its the deck and perpendicular to that is the z axis, 3D. In a smaller ship, fighter say. It would be along the main axis of the ship. The mind invents things to make it 'fit' into what its familiar in dealing with.

Architecture might have helped with the developing my visualizing in 3d, but I had some notion before I started. Also, its not just layers, it is truly 3D, ask any one doing architectural design on the scale of building. Try to visualize an atrium, its not simple.

After my previous post, I was thinking about what I said and spent the drive home visualizing 3D objects in my mind, and were not talking about simple primitive cubes and spheres. Also 3D tactical manuevers, how a pincer movement would need to be more than 2 prongs, etc. I don't find it difficult, and I wouldn't be surprised if other people find it just as simple.

MacBandit

Oct 25, 2002, 12:29 AM

Originally posted by dukestreet

I don't think so. A reference plane is provided, made up by the mind if necessary. You're on a ship, its the deck and perpendicular to that is the z axis, 3D. In a smaller ship, fighter say. It would be along the main axis of the ship. The mind invents things to make it 'fit' into what its familiar in dealing with.

Architecture might have helped with the developing my visualizing in 3d, but I had some notion before I started. Also, its not just layers, it is truly 3D, ask any one doing architectural design on the scale of building. Try to visualize an atrium, its not simple.

After my previous post, I was thinking about what I said and spent the drive home visualizing 3D objects in my mind, and were not talking about simple primitive cubes and spheres. Also 3D tactical manuevers, how a pincer movement would need to be more than 2 prongs, etc. I don't find it difficult, and I wouldn't be surprised if other people find it just as simple.

Also in space there is nothing for the brain to need a reference point for. You never feel upside down or upright.

I know from my own personal experience in a combat simulator that I spend as much time or more upside down dogfighting then I do right side up. This has always been a huge advantage for me in flight combat games. Your opponent if it is a human rarely expects you to come up on them upside down.

MacJagger

Oct 25, 2002, 07:27 AM

I spent a big amount of time flying aeroplanes and I had also lots of training lessons, I´m just telling you what I got from my experience and from what I´ve learned.
A flight-simulator is still quite different to reality, I believe you just won´t get what it really feels like

Mr. Anderson

Oct 25, 2002, 05:22 PM

That's fine, I know what you're talking about as well, since I've flown a few times myself - was planning on getting my pilots license, but stopped since I have too many things going on and don't need another expensive hobby.

But, one thing you might be missing is that intelligent displays will help the pilots of spacecraft - remember the 3D tactical display in Return of the Jedi? And as for fighter pilots, well, the Airforce has already realized that unmanned aircraft are the future, it will just take a while until the transition is made.

D

MacJagger

Oct 25, 2002, 05:37 PM

I´m not hoping that unmanned aircrafts are the future, I don´t want to use my job and just fighting with a joystick in a hand wouldn´t be exciting enough.
I just realized that we really got off topic

mischief

Oct 25, 2002, 06:05 PM

Originally posted by MacJagger
I´m not hoping that unmanned aircrafts are the future, I don´t want to use my job and just fighting with a joystick in a hand wouldn´t be exciting enough.
I just realized that we really got off topic

Why is it that the Borg don't use some sort of attack 'Bot for recon and capture? Is there some fundamental taboo to using robots or using just a brain in a shell?
Why do they not use animals for such things? A Borg Wolverine would be FORMIDABLE.:D ;)

Mr. Anderson

Oct 26, 2002, 08:50 AM

Originally posted by MacJagger
I´m not hoping that unmanned aircrafts are the future, I don´t want to use my job and just fighting with a joystick in a hand wouldn´t be exciting enough.

Not exciting enough!?!? Current jet fighter pilots can take around 10g's before they pass out. A fully mechanical figther, with no pilot, but one on the ground using the joy stick isn't limited to that. Why put a human in harms way when its not necessary?

Some of the current crop of UAVs are being armed, and this will continue with more and more freqency. I don't think your enjoyment or rush is going to matter here.

D

Roger1

Oct 26, 2002, 10:24 AM

Somebody mentioned earlier that ST ships can fire while in Warp. That is true, but in the SW universe, they go through hyperspace, which appears to be a different mode of travel. So the logistics of shooting in warp would probably be different. Don't forget, in SW, people routinely cross the galaxy to get from point a to point b. In the ST universe remember Voyagers predicament? Until they acquired Transwarp drive, they were stuck on the other side of the galaxy, and also had to stop and refuel every once in a while.

I don't think anybody mentioned that the SW ships have shielding. Just about every type of ship seems to have shielding except for TIEs. I think that the ST shielding if far superior though. In DS9, when the Dominion and the Cardassians were trying to capture DS9, the Jem Hadar were ramming their ships (suicide run, unsuccessfully) into the stations shielding.
If I remember correctly, in the original Star Wars game for the pc the manual said that Star Destroyer shielding only went out about 3 meters from the hull, to minimize impact from torpedos. I don't recall anything being said about the lasers. Any how, enjoy the "facts".

;)

MacJagger

Oct 26, 2002, 02:51 PM

to dukestreet:
One last thing my joy during fulfilling my job will not play a role in the development but it plays a role according to my life or do you want do a job which doesn´t make fun to you.
THERE IS NO WAY HAVING MORE FUN THAN FLYING SUPERSONIC SPEEDS
and now back to the topic.

I think one thing wasn´t mentioned here, in SW they have a lot of fighters that it an important role because I don´t know how Captain Picard or the Borg_Queen would react when 60 Tie-Fighters shoot there ships into pieces

Roger1

Oct 26, 2002, 04:01 PM

How about Species 8472? I'd put them up against the Empire any day. In fact, I think they would have the empire for lunch. For those of you who don't know about Species 8472, they are the species from fluidic space, and happily use borg heads for soccer balls (after ripping the bodies to pieces, with their bare "hands"). Every time they and the borg fought, the borg were easily crushed. In fact, their little bitty ships would take on borg cubes, one on one, and destroy it (resistance is futile?). To destroy borg worlds, a half dozen or so of their ships would combine their firepower and destroy borg planets. Pretty awesome. In the five "months" they and the borg had fought, the borg lost dozens of worlds, billions of drones, and hundreds of cubes.
By the way, species 8472 is telepathic, resistant to phaser fire, and can exist is space, without a suit, for a short time. In fact in one episode, a wounded 8472 climbed on to voyager, peeled back the hull plating with its hands, and entered the ship.
Empire, bring it on.

MacJagger

Oct 26, 2002, 05:31 PM

I knew someone would come up with species 8472. But although they can resist phaser-fire they can be cut into pieces by a light sabre.
I was always a fan of starwars and didn´t like st as much as sw.
My biggest critic on st is that they always had to come up with those "undefeatable" races to bring some fights into their universe. In NG it was like the coldwar. Maybe we start a new thread on that. I´ll call why does st need those super-human races.

Mr. Anderson

Oct 28, 2002, 08:36 AM

Ha, species 8472 - from fluidic space - that's one for the bad physics thread - the density of their universe would be impossible to imagine, and just doesn't make any sense, when you think about it. How would 'stars' ever transmit their energy through a fluid, and with out boiling it first. Its hard to even start with this one, there are so many things wrong with it.....

D

MacBandit

Oct 28, 2002, 12:11 PM

Originally posted by dukestreet
Ha, species 8472 - from fluidic space - that's one for the bad physics thread - the density of their universe would be impossible to imagine, and just doesn't make any sense, when you think about it. How would 'stars' ever transmit their energy through a fluid, and with out boiling it first. Its hard to even start with this one, there are so many things wrong with it.....

D

There was no light in fluidic space. Also I don't think it's necesarily a fluid.

sturm375

Oct 28, 2002, 12:24 PM

Originally posted by MacJagger
I think one thing wasn´t mentioned here, in SW they have a lot of fighters that it an important role because I don´t know how Captain Picard or the Borg_Queen would react when 60 Tie-Fighters shoot there ships into pieces

Borg: Let's see, each cube consists of around 10,000 Borg Drones. That's like a 10,000 processor client computer. I think it can handle 60 Tie-Fighters.

Picard: Since he doesn't actually fire the ships phasers, we will assume the Tactical station is handleing this. The Enterprise has 2 computer cores with essentially thousands of processors. I think the computer can track 60 Tie-Fighters. Since the Enterprise doesn't have manually fired phasers, they are computer controled. Worf, or whomever is at the Tacticle station, points at a tie-fighter, and says fire. Boom! Tie-Fighter gone. Also the Tie-fighter's weapons wouldn't stand a chance against the shields of a starship.