Intel Switch sucks -REALLY

[Danzsupreme]

I hear everyone saying buy buy, don't worry buy. I bought a new 12 powebook last month and i love it. I really do. But with this announcement i am pissed. I remember when everything switched to powermac so i had to get rid of my LC II to get a new $5000 8500 powermac machine. Not to say it was a def. upgrade but the 8500 needed all new software and upgrades and it only lasted 3 years until the G3 came out and made my computer completely obsolete.

Now i spent about $2000 on a Powerbook that when the intel versions come out next year will be semi obsolete, because I'm sure their will be a new OS that will require an Intel processor and all the latests and greatest software will have to require this new OS. So what am i left with. Another obsolete machine.

Trust me i hate windows, but my old HP laptop that i bought in 98 still runs strong today (even though i hate it and it crashes and i constatly have to take it for repair).

But lets be honest here, buy buying new macs now we are just giving into Apple's greedy new plan. These machines run great now, but do we really not care that in 3 years time these machines will be dead weights. I want my machine to last a good 10 years before its garbage.

[Lunja]

You should be fine for a while. OSX 10.5 should be out halfway throught the transition to Intel, so it'll work on PPC and Intel no probs. Most of the major software writers are now writing 'Universal binaries', so they'll work on both platforms. Your PB will still be a great machine in five years' time, so don't sweat it.

There's loads of threads explaining the whole transition, so have a browse. It'll put your mind at rest :)

[punkbass25]

your machine wont just all of a sudden be dead in three years. everything it can do now it will continue to be able to do 3, 5, maybe even 10 years from now, yes eventually you will not be able to upgrade to the latest and greatest system, but that wont be till atLEAST 10.7 which is quite a ways away. and until that happens everything for you will continue to function exactly the same. you wont notice any diffrence when teh intel macs start rolling off the line.

its not like if in three eyars 10.7 comes out and it no longer supports powerPC you'll go to start your xcomputer the day after its released and it will just sit there and go, hey buddy get with the times i dont work anymore.

i've got some machines that only run 9.2.2 and they still work great! so i cant use them to run photoshop, or safari, big deal. i can still use itunes check email and all sorts of other menial tasks on it.

and if your one who always has to have the latest and greatest, youll be upgrading much more often then every three years. so i really dont see the big deal

[MacDawg]

I want my machine to last a good 10 years before its garbage.

LOL, good luck!
Its a computer, not a car...
Computer years are worse than dog years
10 years is an eternity in the computer arena

Your machine will always do what it does now, but improvements involve change, both in software and hardware. Holding back innovation because of the pain it causes isn't the answer.

I think think the hoopla is much ado about nothing. While the change may not be exactly seamless, it probably won't be much worse than the change to OS 7 or OS X, or the change from Motorola to PPC.

I always stay with what I have until I can't be productive anymore, then I buy. My PowerMac clone lasted me about 7 years running OS 7 and 8 before I finally bought an iMac.

You may not always have the latest and greatest, but nobody does 6 months after they buy, much less 10 years.

LOL

Woof, Woof - Dawg

[Hattig]

I expect OS X 10.5 and 10.6 will be available in PowerPC versions, which should be into 2008, and I don't really see them stopping compiling for PowerPC after that because they'll want to keep their options open.

Applications are easy to port, and will come in both PowerPC and x86 versions in the same package due to Mac OS X's capability to have multiple different binaries in an application. It should also provide an impetus to people using the old APIs to finally get their code up to date.

Why should your laptop become obsolete? It will fall behind the curve of course, but all hardware does that! It will still be usable and as you bought it you clearly needed it now, so it was a good purchase. I'm getting an iBook when they are updated, even though the next update will be PowerPC, and my previous laptop was a PII 266!

In the long run, the actual processor used by the Mac will not be an issue. The software and the design are what make a Mac these days, not the processor. Whilst I am sad that PowerPC is being dropped because I think it is technically superior at the design and ISA level, if it isn't getting enough development then it makes sense to switch to a new architecture that will gain performance/low price/low power usage.

[eleveneastgate]

It'll be OK... don't worry yourself. If you're up to it, listen to this (http://homepage.mac.com/wizardspodcasts/podcasts/WoT_46_20050607.mp3) ... it may make you feel a little better, :D

[James L]

Now i spent about $2000 on a Powerbook that when the intel versions come out next year will be semi obsolete, because I'm sure their will be a new OS that will require an Intel processor and all the latests and greatest software will have to require this new OS. So what am i left with. Another obsolete machine.

Three things:

1) Apple will support both processors in OSX for a long while yet.


2) It is very easy for developers to compile their apps for BOTH Intel and PPC in the same compile, and to produce both versions on the same disc. The amount of extra work required on their part is not huge.

Go here:

http://www.apple.com/quicktime/qtv/wwdc05/

And watch from about the 30 minute mark on. Especially around the 32 minute mark. Apple will be supporting both processors for a while yet, and once the initial conversion is done it is easy for developers to support both chips on the same disc. You will put the disc in your computer, hit install, and it will decide what to load on your system.


3) The sky is not falling, as much as some Intel haters would like everyone to think!

[Brother Michael]

LOL, good luck!
Its a computer, not a car...
Computer years are worse than dog years
10 years is an eternity in the computer arena


My Mac is 4 years old.

My parents had a computer that lasted them 6 or 7 years (we got it in 97 or 98)

Mike

[Lunja]

Sorry, just to clarify...

Some people are mentioning 10.6, but I'd heard that after 10.5 we'd get to OS XI...

Has anyone else heard this?

[MacDawg]

My Mac is 4 years old.

My parents had a computer that lasted them 6 or 7 years (we got it in 97 or 98)

Mike

Not saying it won't work 10 years from now. The components may still function, and it will still run all of the software I was using at the time. My Mac II still works running System 7 and my PowerMac clone still runs System 8, I just don't use them anymore because I can be more productive on my iMac.

At some point the upgrade curve becomes too steep and the technology advances so far that you want the new advantages. Some people make a move quicker than others. My point is... keep what you have as long as you can be productive (probably 3-5 years max for most people), and then buy as much computer as you can reasonably afford.

Woof, Woof - Dawg

[kretzy]

Just relax a bit mate.....Apple will continue supporting all of their machines long into the future, as they do currently. Your PB will still be strong for a long time. Just look at all the ppl still loving their G3s, which are years old!

Read some of the many posts re the whole "transitional period", you'll feel better. ;)

[cube]

2) It is very easy for developers to compile their apps for BOTH Intel and PPC in the same compile, and to produce both versions on the same disc. The amount of extra work required on their part is not huge.


QA is a lot of work, and is not cheap. I expect many developers to drop PPC support quite fast.

[alexeismertin]

This brings up the question of whether to upgrade software, I guess my current programs on a PPC OSX will not run on an x86 OSX.

Which means when I buy an x86 Mac I'll get the x86 OSX with it, but I will have to fork out for x86 versions of Creative Suite, Studio MX, Toast etc

I suppose a PPC to x86 swap will be out of the question?

[Hattig]

QA is a lot of work, and is not cheap. I expect many developers to drop PPC support quite fast.

A lot of the QA would be platform agnostic however, and there will still be a very large installed user base of PowerPC machines until 2008/2009 at the very least. Maybe PowerPC binaries will fall behind or be "at your own risk" by 2010, but that's a long way away at the moment so lets not bother discussing it.

[chibianh]

QA is a lot of work, and is not cheap. I expect many developers to drop PPC support quite fast.

Not if the majority of users are still on PPC.. ;)

[Hattig]

This brings up the question of whether to upgrade software, I guess my current programs on a PPC OSX will not run on an x86 OSX.

Which means when I buy an x86 Mac I'll get the x86 OSX with it, but I will have to fork out for x86 versions of Creative Suite, Studio MX, Toast etc

I suppose a PPC to x86 swap will be out of the question?

They'll have the Rosetta translation engine for PowerPC binaries remember.

Also applications will be shipped with both versions on the same disc because of the way Mac OS X fat binaries work.

[atszyman]

QA is a lot of work, and is not cheap. I expect many developers to drop PPC support quite fast.

I don't think it will be as fast as you think. I wouldn't expect any developers to drop PPC support until at least 2010-2015 since you need to wait for the Intel Macs to penetrate the market. Developers won't switch until the majority of Macs in the field are Intel based which will probably take at least 5 years from the complete transition at Apple. Many will probably go longer as a precaution in case Apple decides to switch back.

It brings up another interesting question. Is compiling for Intel only even an option in Xcode 2.1? The check box mentioned in the keynote was to compile for Intel AND PPC not either/or.

This brings up the question of whether to upgrade software, I guess my current programs on a PPC OSX will not run on an x86 OSX.

Which means when I buy an x86 Mac I'll get the x86 OSX with it, but I will have to fork out for x86 versions of Creative Suite, Studio MX, Toast etc

I suppose a PPC to x86 swap will be out of the question?


All of your current software will work, albeit through emulation using Rosetta.

[kjr39]

Trust me i hate windows, but my old HP laptop that i bought in 98 still runs strong today (even though i hate it and it crashes and i constatly have to take it for repair).


That is an interesting definition of "runs strong" you have there... :p

And, FWIW, I am part of the don't buy camp.

[alexeismertin]

This Rosetta, with its limitations is a stop gap but surely not for everyday pro use right?

So my options are to emulate what I own & paid thousands for or re-buy it?

Who's looking forward to the intel switch now?

[Hattig]

This Rosetta, with its limitations is a stop gap but surely not for everyday pro use right?

So my options are to emulate what I own & paid thousands for or re-buy it?

Who's looking forward to the intel switch now?

It'll probably be the same cost as the upgrade you'd be paying for anyway. Instead of being a PowerPC to PowerPC upgrade, it'll be a PowerPC to PPC&Intel fat binary upgrade.

I fail to see what the problem is. If Rosetta eventually runs at even 50% of the processors speed, with a dual-core 2GHz laptop the performance will be at least 1GHz G4 standard. Apple say it could be 80% of the speed ...

[baummer]

This Rosetta, with its limitations is a stop gap but surely not for everyday pro use right?
That's kind of the point...so you can continue your usage uninterrupted.

So my options are to emulate what I own & paid thousands for or re-buy it?
Your existing system won't be affected. Software will work on both platforms thanks to universal binary compiling.

Who's looking forward to the intel switch now?
I am. This means so many things, including better laptops. But it's obvious no one is going to disuade you from your negative position on what I feel is a positive move for Apple. As others have said, they sky is not falling.

[michaelrjohnson]

Original Post

You're failing to see the beauty behind OS X. It has been built from the beginning to be processor *independant*. That means that OS X doesn't care what processor you have. Universal binaries will be in use for future programs, for all exisiting apps, there is Rosetta. Rosetta is real-time conversion of the PPC binaries to x86 binaries. In 4 years, they could switch back to PPC, and the transition would be fluid... transparent to users. (Just like this one will be)


You *won't* have to get a new computer when Apple ships x86 Macs.
Your old software *will* work, as long as it works in OS X.
There are no "hidden costs", and Apple does not *require* you to ever purchase a new machine... unless you want to use the latest and greatest always. Then it's your own fault. It's the same for any PC user.

[slu]

This Rosetta, with its limitations is a stop gap but surely not for everyday pro use right?

So my options are to emulate what I own & paid thousands for or re-buy it?

Who's looking forward to the intel switch now?

Do you ever upgrade your SW? When the new versions of whatever you use come out, do you ever buy them? If so, then this statement makes no sense, because in two years when the next version of Photoshop or whatever comes out, you would have upgraded anyway and the cost would be the same no matter what CPU is inside.

I am getting so sick of the argument. Most people that are worried about this are people that generally always have the latest versions of their apps anyway and the next version of everything will have universial binaries.

[notjustjay]

A laptop?

10 years?

Wow, you're very optimistic. I've never kept any (Windows or Mac) longer than 3 or 4 years. My oldest desktop is from 1998, and even that's been relegated to a server-type machine running in the basement.

[tsk]

I hear everyone saying buy buy, don't worry buy. I bought a new 12 powebook last month and i love it. I really do. But with this announcement i am pissed.

....

But lets be honest here, buy buying new macs now we are just giving into Apple's greedy new plan. These machines run great now, but do we really not care that in 3 years time these machines will be dead weights. I want my machine to last a good 10 years before its garbage.

Honestly, if you're the type who wants the system to last a long time before you upgrade, I think you'll be fine. I think the people who got hurt more are the ones who plan to resell in a year or something. You'll have plenty of support for say 4 years with apps. However, if in 6-9 months you were planning on selling to upgrade, I think your resale would be in the toilet.

Edit: I only say "4 years" just because to me that's an eternity for a laptop and I think by then its well past the need to upgrade. Apple may well support the PPC for much longer than that.

[_pb_boi]

Trust me i hate windows, but my old HP laptop that i bought in 98 still runs strong today (even though i hate it and it crashes and i constatly have to take it for repair).


But it runs strong, correct?

andy.

[OnceUGoMac]

I hear everyone saying buy buy, don't worry buy. I bought a new 12 powebook last month and i love it. I really do. But with this announcement i am pissed. I remember when everything switched to powermac so i had to get rid of my LC II to get a new $5000 8500 powermac machine. Not to say it was a def. upgrade but the 8500 needed all new software and upgrades and it only lasted 3 years until the G3 came out and made my computer completely obsolete.

Now i spent about $2000 on a Powerbook that when the intel versions come out next year will be semi obsolete, because I'm sure their will be a new OS that will require an Intel processor and all the latests and greatest software will have to require this new OS. So what am i left with. Another obsolete machine.

Trust me i hate windows, but my old HP laptop that i bought in 98 still runs strong today (even though i hate it and it crashes and i constatly have to take it for repair).

But lets be honest here, buy buying new macs now we are just giving into Apple's greedy new plan. These machines run great now, but do we really not care that in 3 years time these machines will be dead weights. I want my machine to last a good 10 years before its garbage.


You may want to watch the keynote. OS X runs on both intel and PPC. Also, the major software players are running thier code on a universal binary, o what's the problem?

[Bozola]

Obsolete computers.. That's my favorite...

If people expected the same thing out of their clothes like they bought computers, they would expect their 5 year old wardrobe to look in style today!..

[andiwm2003]

apple could solve all the transition problems that customers have with the switch by releasing imac g5's with a dvi input.

then you have a decent mac fully compatible with todays software.
if down the road a program is released that won't run on a g5 you can always buy a mac mini (or a intel power mac).
but you would protect your investment in the imac because the screen is always usable and all your old software will run forever.

at least that would make me buy an imac in a heartbeat.

my 2 cents.

[RacerX]

I remember when everything switched to powermac so i had to get rid of my LC II to get a new $5000 8500 powermac machine. Not to say it was a def. upgrade but the 8500 needed all new software and upgrades and it only lasted 3 years until the G3 came out and made my computer completely obsolete.
Why did you have to get rid of the LC II? In 1995 when the 8500 was released you could still run System 7.x on both an 8500 and LC II. But the 8500 was some 30 times faster than an LC II. And pretty much all your software (unless it required System 6, which never ran on an LC II anyways) should have worked great on an 8500.

And the G3 didn't make the 604 based systems obsolete. It was the G4 (and Altivec specific apps) started the slide of those systems.

Now i spent about $2000 on a Powerbook that when the intel versions come out next year will be semi obsolete, because I'm sure their will be a new OS that will require an Intel processor and all the latests and greatest software will have to require this new OS. So what am i left with. Another obsolete machine.
The new Intel based systems are going to be running Mac OS X v10.4. And 10.5 will be able to run on PowerPC systems.

What OS are you running on your PowerBook?

And for the record, it is you that you should be mad at, not Apple.

If you are chasing the latest and greatest, then it is you that is forcing you to constantly upgrade, not Apple.

Trust me i hate windows, but my old HP laptop that i bought in 98 still runs strong today (even though i hate it and it crashes and i constatly have to take it for repair).
So?

I am typing this on a 1998 PowerBook G3 (Wallstreet) which has been my primary system for years. It has Mac OS X v10.2 installed with all native apps and it just works. I have no crashes (last three uptimes: 93 days, 231 days, 133 days) and it is never in need of repair.

And why would you hold this HP laptop up as comparison? Is it running Windows XP or any of the latest and greatest software?.

What it shows is that you have settled with software that your system can handle and therefore that system is just as good (except in your case where it sounds awful) at running that software as it was the day the system was new.

And why have you settled with that system?

I use an IBM ThinkPad from 1997 for all my mobile computing needs (my PowerBook is too import for my work to take with me for daily use). It never, ever, crashes (Of course it has been running Apple's Rhapsody most of the time I've owned it and has never run Windows in that time) and has never needed repair (even though it takes the more of a physical beating than any other system I own).

Again, why would you settle on this HP Laptop? You can't stop yourself from buying the latest and greatest Macs, but you couldn't take a little of that addiction and spread it around to other areas of computing?

Well, at least you don't have a 1998 era Gateway laptop.

But lets be honest here, buy buying new macs now we are just giving into Apple's greedy new plan. These machines run great now, but do we really not care that in 3 years time these machines will be dead weights. I want my machine to last a good 10 years before its garbage.
Okay, honest...

In three years, if you stop chasing the latest and greatest of everything, the system you have today will be as good for you then as it is now.

And in three years, most of the software will still run great on a system bought today. So even if you keep your cravings mildly in check, you can still keep up to date on many areas.

As long as we are being honest, you are a junky. You are a computer junky. It even that, you are an Apple computer junky (because if you can settle with that crappy HP laptop, then you aren't a general computer junky).

And it is not Apple's fault that you can't be satisfied with what you have.

I still use a Quadra 950 in my workflow, that is a system that is 13 years old. I still use a 7500 in my work flow, that is a 10 year old system. I still use a 8100 in my work flow, that is an 11 year old system. And my primary system is my PowerBook which is going to be 7 years old in September.

And not only do they run great, they run better today than when they were factory new. Why? They have better software and have had hardware upgrades.


Considering all this, lets look at what you said at the beginning of your post...I hear everyone saying buy buy, don't worry buy. I bought a new 12 powebook last month and i love it. I really do. But with this announcement i am pissed.
To be clear, you should be pissed. Because you know what you are going to do.

But more to the point, you should have been pissed before the announcement... because even if Apple hadn't changed from PowerPC to Intel, newer systems were still on their way, and your compulsion to buy the latest and greatest would have sent you back soon no matter what.


You want a system that will last 10 years?

Learn to love what you have and stop chasing the latest and greatest of everything.

[Ugg]

Trust me i hate windows, but my old HP laptop that i bought in 98 still runs strong today (even though i hate it and it crashes and i constatly have to take it for repair).

.


Ummmmm, I'm not sure how you can say it's still running strong given that it's failing you so much. The iMac I bought in 1999 is running great, although I did get a larger HDD. It even is running OS X and it will probably continue to run strong well past the macintel introductions. Sure it doesn't support some things like iSight but for basic surfing it can't be beat.

I think that comparing the early days of consumer computing to today doesn't quite cut it. Software is much longer lasting and is easier to port to different platforms these days and unless you're in need of the latest and greatest the moment it appears, well...

Also, the naysayers are forgetting that ms is going to be introducing longhorn at some point in 07 or 08 and your HP will definitely be useless by then but G3s will still be supported by Apple for a few years after that.

[Danzsupreme]

I am typing this on a 1998 PowerBook G3 (Wallstreet) which has been my primary system for years. It has Mac OS X v10.2 installed with all native apps and it just works. I have no crashes (last three uptimes: 93 days, 231 days, 133 days) and it is never in need of repair.


Racer your the man, but my point is I wanna be like you and 7 years down the road be typing on powerbook, that will still be running strong when it hits its 10th bday. My 8500 and 7500 run great too today, but there is no way that I can do anything really productive on them unless the software I originally have on it and forget about internet they are just not made for todays browsers. This is fine, but 7 years after I bought them i couldnt not use them (not even chasing the latest and greatest). They changed the chip and everything has to be a G3 processor or higher thats why your wallstreet rocks, Bondi imacs, etc rock too as long as you got enough memory i them they will.

I am just saying, what happends when the boxes say Intel M processor or higher. 7 years down the road, yea i can use my machine but my Word files will not open on current machines, Photoshop files, illustrator I wont be able to get new versions of stuff.

[RacerX]

I am just saying, what happends when the boxes say Intel M processor or higher. 7 years down the road, yea i can use my machine but my Word files will not open on current machines, Photoshop files, illustrator I wont be able to get new versions of stuff.
That is the price of technology and working with it.

I'm assuming that you make a living using your Mac... with every new software upgrade for the apps that you use, the older ones fall further and further behind. This is true in both the Mac and Windows worlds. It is a computing fact of life.

Now how often you are forced to upgrade depends on these factors. I just upgraded one client from 9.2.2 to 10.3.9 so that she could deal with newer QuarkXPress files, this also pushed her to get a newer version of Suitcase, and now she is eying the new Creative Suite 2 because she still needs Acrobat and she doesn't have a Mac OS X native version of Illustrator.

If you use Word as your main app, yes, the files will open on new system 3-7 years from now. Will you be able to open files from Word of that period... most likely not. Microsoft and other software venders change the file formats to make older apps obsolete. In fact your current apps is going to be seen as a threat to the future versions, specially if you (and other people) are happy with them and feel no reason to upgrade.

As for my PowerBook, this is a perfect example of why Apple changed the design of PowerBook after the PowerBook G3 line.

I have a G4/500 processor in my PowerBook. Apple made it easy to upgrade that. I have an 8 GB hard drive which took me less than 15 minutes to install replacing the original 4 GB drive. But the 4 GB drive is still in my PowerBook... in the bay where I originally had my battery (which died a couple years ago). And I swapped out the original CD-ROM drive with a CDRW drive in the other bay.

My PowerBook is an nightmare for Apple. Most PC users replace a system every 18 months (it is why the market share is so much higher than the installed user base of PC users), but the average Mac user replace a system every 3-5 years... which effects Apple's market share. And of course a system like mine is only now starting to push me towards buying a newer system (end of summer is what I'm thinking right now).

But this is not just about Apple making money on us. Market share effects how developers make applications. There is very little tracking of installed users, so everyone uses market share to judge the amount of users. If Apple's market share drops, developers think that is what is going to happen to their software sales.

This is why Apple made post-PowerBook G3 systems to hard to upgrade... at all.

Lets say that you needed a bigger hard drive. As I said before, I can drop one in my system in about 15 minutes. How long do you think it would take on your 12" PowerBook?

I stopped providing hardware support for PowerBook G4s and iBooks after replacing the hard drive in a 12" iBook which took me 3 hours. It would be cheeper to sell the system and buy a newer one than to upgrade the hard drive.

This is by design.

But the thing is, your PowerBook is still going to be worth a lot (assuming you take care of it) when you replace it in a few years. Why? Because there are going to be people who want to upgrade there hardware from something quite a bit older who don't want to replace any of their existing software (which would either run the same on the new Intel systems or slower).

For you, the fact that these transitions can take 5 to 8 years, means that the value of your PowerBook is insured. Just like my Quadra 950 was still quite valuable even after the PowerMacs came out.

The only reason for you to be upset with any system you own is if it doesn't pay for itself.

But this transition isn't going to effect you or your PowerBook anytime in the near future.

[Gelfin]

But lets be honest here, buy buying new macs now we are just giving into Apple's greedy new plan. These machines run great now, but do we really not care that in 3 years time these machines will be dead weights. I want my machine to last a good 10 years before its garbage.

Ah, yes. The familiar technology buyer's whine: "I have purchased! No more innovation allowed! Introducing new things after I purchase is greed, which I somehow consider a legitimate criticism of a business that needs revenue like I need oxygen."

Oh, and ten years ago you would have bought a Pentium 133 running Windows 3.1 or a 60MHz 601 running System 7.5. You'd get laughed at trying to give these away to a middle school. You could still use them profitably if you were really inclined. That's up to you. Just don't blame the industry for not stopping and revolving around your buying decision.

In particular, don't go whining about your obsolescense at the hands of the Intel switch when Apple's clearly put a really large amount of effort into trying to prevent exactly the things you're whining about. If you'd checked your facts first, you would have saved yourself from this Chicken Little routine you're doing.

[andiwm2003]

....The familiar technology buyer's whine......No more innovation allowed.....Introducing new things after I purchase is greed.....Just don't blame the industry for not stopping and revolving around your buying decision.......don't go whining about your obsolescense ........the things you're whining about......this Chicken Little routine you're doing.......

nice&helpful post. but i don't think that he was whining or so. he is just concerned that due to the switch his systems will be outdated in 2 years instead of five (or even ten). and that rather because the software will not support G4/G5 in the future than the processors being to slow.

i think Danzsupreme's concern is warranted and i think that is what is going to happen. :(

the only thing is even if apple would stay with the PPC's the systems would be outdated in 3 years. because by then software would expect you to have multicore-multiprocessor G5's, 64 bit systems, new graphics card, h.264 hardware decoders or something else. so the switch doesn't make it that much worse.

the time of steady development is over (for the moment). i think right now we are at a point where systems are only good for three years because technology in hard- and software changes too fast. after that new software won't support your systems anymore.

but again this would also happen (in a similar way) without the switch. and there is nothing you can do about it. :(
the only bright side is that the systems (from the ibooks up to the power macs) are fast enough to handle every standard task easily. the software meets all standard needs easily. so you won't crave for a faster system just because rotating an image takes 5 minutes..... :)

my 2 cents.

[amac4me]

I posted a reply in another thread. Overall, I think that Apple should run a promotion to promotoe current Mac sales.

Here's the link the my post:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=1530133#post1530133

[michaelrjohnson]

I posted a reply in another thread. Overall, I think that Apple should run a promotion to promotoe current Mac sales.

Here's the link the my post:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=1530133#post1530133

I'm sure they will offer promotions of some kind, they usually have several going on at any given time.

(RE: Linked post)
I do *not* however, think Apple will offer a trade-in/trade-up program. It's not cost-effective for them to do in the least.

[artea]

I can live with outdated technology. Powerbook will still look like a piece of art after 3 or 5 years. After all, I can still use it as a portable dvd and music player 5 years from now. Assuming CPU, hard drive, and battery still works after 5 years. :) If it breaks before then, well, fix it or replace it...that's just life.
Things happen that you never expect.

[Sun Baked]

Financially it doesn't suck...

If sticking with IBM would mean coughing up $100 or more for each machine now, just so you have the chance of buying it at full price in the future.

And then doing it again it every two years.

Do you think Apple is going to find a million or two people willing to keep PowerPC alive every two years?

Especially since they won't get a discount for keeping PowerPC alive.

Apple is in this position and doesn't want to fund CPUs anymore... But maybe you can start a petition and get several million people together willing to do it for Apple instead.

Apple took the money (actually probably more) and invested it in a switch and decided to end the two year cycle of IBM/Freescale extorting money for a new CPU.

[keysersoze]

I remember when everything switched to powermac so i had to get rid of my LC II to get a new $5000 8500 powermac machine. Not to say it was a def. upgrade but the 8500 needed all new software and upgrades and it only lasted 3 years until the G3 came out and made my computer completely obsolete.

Well, my 8500 only 'lasted' 2 years, as I got it mid-cycle before the G3 revolution. But I managed to use it for years afterwards. It sucks, but that's the way technology works. It's obsolete as soon as you buy it (slight overdramatization :) )

[cwerdna]

2) It is very easy for developers to compile their apps for BOTH Intel and PPC in the same compile, and to produce both versions on the same disc. The amount of extra work required on their part is not huge.

Go here:

http://www.apple.com/quicktime/qtv/wwdc05/

And watch from about the 30 minute mark on. Especially around the 32 minute mark. Apple will be supporting both processors for a while yet, and once the initial conversion is done it is easy for developers to support both chips on the same disc. You will put the disc in your computer, hit install, and it will decide what to load on your system.

It is potentially a lot of work if their app IS NOT being compiled using Xcode already. Even Jobs admits it's an unknown amount of work. See my other post at http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=1514143#post1514143. Besides compiling, you've double the test hit now... see my comments later.

If you'd like to see the docs on porting CodeWarrior projects to Xcode, see http://developer.apple.com/documentation/DeveloperTools/Conceptual/MovingProjectsToXcode/index.html?http://developer.apple.com/documentation/DeveloperTools/Conceptual/MovingProjectsToXcode/migration_overview/chapter_1_section_1.html. Even if your software is on Xcode already, you will likely hit some issues porting. You can read the 106 page doc at http://developer.apple.com/documentation/MacOSX/Conceptual/universal_binary/universal_binary.pdf.

Back to the first point, even Microsoft isn't clear how much work it'll take to make the switch from CodeWarrior to Xcode to then build universal binaries. From http://news.com.com/Developers+get+taste+of+Intel-based+Macs/2100-1016_3-5739589.html:

-begin quote-
"But, if developers used tools from Metrowerks, they must first bring their code over to Apple's tools and then begin the work of tweaking the software for Intel's chips.

Microsoft is among those in that last camp. Both Virtual PC and Office for Mac were developed in Carbon, using tools from Metrowerks. Microsoft said it doesn't know how much work it has ahead of itself.

"That's one of the main things our developers are looking at," said Scott Erickson, group product manager for Microsoft's Macintosh..."
-end quote-


Besides just compiling, you need to ensure that your app works properly and well, if you're running on a brand new platform w/an OS for x86 that's not finished yet, that OS is going to be more of a moving target (in terms of new seeds being dropped) than a shipping OS. You've pretty much got to fully test your app on x86 and since you've had to switch compiler versions (even if you went just from Xcode 2.0 to 2.1), you should pretty thoroughly test on PPC.

Moving forward, you will always have to test on both until you feel it's wise to drop support for PPC.

You can also read some developer comments at http://www.macintouch.com/macintel05.html .