New Dual 2, 2.3 OR Refurb. 2, 2.5?

[mintlivedotcom]

I can get the Dual 2 for $1699 (EDU - $100 "Spring" rebate and a free cheap printer after rebate) or the refurbished Dual 2 at $1649.

Now the price difference is even closer. Is the 8 RAM slots on the refurbished worth it, compared to the 4 on the new? The new one also has a better graphics card and video memory.

What do you think?

I'm ready to bite!!!

[evil_santa]

Its quite hard to decide what to get. It took me about 6 weeks to work out the system I wanted, I went well over budget. but have now a nice system that should last me 5 years. See my tread about what to buy ( http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=1442923)

[mad jew]

I think any of those Power Macs will handle your needs fairly easily. I'd go the 2.3GHz machine personally. You get a new computer, plus I think it's the sweet spot of the current range price-to-performance wise.

[rotlex]

In my own recent experience, trying to decide between the same boxes you are looking at, I boiled it down to the dual 2.3. I've been VERY happy with the decision. I guess after just reading the specs, trying things out, and thinking about it for weeks, I felt it was giving me the most bang for my buck. The only thing I "upgraded" on it was the RAM. (Took it to 3.5GB).

I use it primarily for Photoshop work (CS2), and I must say, it has simply screamed through anything I have thrown at it. Yep, I'm a very happy camper. Also figuring this machine will last me for at least the next 3-4 years as it's already more than I actually need.

Good luck with your decision, although I don't think you can really go wrong with any of them. :)

[mintlivedotcom]

I appreciate the replies so far! I guess I am leaning towards the new 2.3. Another plus is that I can go pick it up at the Apple Store!

Yes, I will bump up the RAM. I can also use the extra internal 120 GB drive that is currently in my dual G4. I am assuming internal drives (7200 RPM) will be the same, speed-wise.

[carlos700]

The Power Mac G5 uses Serial ATA Hard Disk Drives. To use the internal 120GB Hard Drive in your Power Mac G5 you will need to install a Ultra ATA/133 Card in your Power Mac G5.

[FFTT]

You can still find NEW Rev B dual 2.0 GHz G5's at many resellers including CompUSA for around $1899. Some resellers and e-sellers are offering free RAM upgrades as well. The model number for the Rev B 2.0 is

VPN-M9455LL/A

I would press them hard to get that model down to no more than $1749.

I'm not sure exactly why the model number ends with an A because it IS
the correct model number for the 2004 Rev B 2.0.
My guess is that it was the first generation 2.0 with the newer 970FX processor.

The 2.3 is the sweet spot in the new 2005 models, but the previous
Rev B 2004 2.0 model has the PRO 8 RAM slot motherboard and 133MHz PCI-X just like the 2.3's

The $500-$600 price difference between these two models can go a long way towards RAM, displays, GPU cards, software and interfaces,

The newer 2005 Rev C 2.0 G5 tower is seriously crippled by the prosumer
4 RAM slot/ 33MHz PCI motherboard.

The 2.5 is O.K., but there is the water cooling issue.


The BEST choices are the new 2.3 GHz or the older 2004 Rev B 2.0

There's really nothing wrong with going for a refurb at all.
Apple is very good about making sure their refurbs are well tested and trouble free.

My new Rev B 2.0 is outstanding and it shipped with both Panther AND Tiger.

I'm perfectly fine with the standard 8 X Superdrive and can always upgrade the 64 MB VRAM Nividia 5200 GPU later.

[jane doe]

The 2.5 is O.K., but there is the water cooling issue.




There IS??

[FFTT]

The original manufacturer of the water cooling system was quoted
saying that he would not guarantee the system for much more than 2 years.

I do understand that some models are now equipped by a different manufacturer, but if you're buying a refurb 2.5, I'm not sure how you differentiate which system was used.

[mintlivedotcom]

The Power Mac G5 uses Serial ATA Hard Disk Drives. To use the internal 120GB Hard Drive in your Power Mac G5 you will need to install a Ultra ATA/133 Card in your Power Mac G5.

I am trying to figure out about how much this card would cost. Any estimates?

[FFTT]

I am trying to figure out about how much this card would cost. Any estimates?

I'd check out OWC, www.macsales.com

You'll probably find that it's better to just get a new SATA HD
They also sell factory OEM Samsung RAM at reasonable prices.

[rickvanr]

The original manufacturer of the water cooling system was quoted
saying that he would not guarantee the system for much more than 2 years.

I do understand that some models are now equipped by a different manufacturer, but if you're buying a refurb 2.5, I'm not sure how you differentiate which system was used.


Is this the same as in the new Dual 2.7 machines?

[mintlivedotcom]

You can still find NEW Rev B dual 2.0 GHz G5's at many resellers including CompUSA for around $1899. Some resellers and e-sellers are offering free RAM upgrades as well. The model number for the Rev B 2.0 is

VPN-M9455LL/A

The 2.3 is the sweet spot in the new 2005 models, but the previous
Rev B 2004 2.0 model has the PRO 8 RAM slot motherboard and 133MHz PCI-X just like the 2.3's

The newer 2005 Rev C 2.0 G5 tower is seriously crippled by the prosumer
4 RAM slot/ 33MHz PCI motherboard.

The 2.5 is O.K., but there is the water cooling issue.

The BEST choices are the new 2.3 GHz or the older 2004 Rev B 2.0

I'm perfectly fine with the standard 8 X Superdrive and can always upgrade the 64 MB VRAM Nividia 5200 GPU later.

I wonder if the refurbished dual 2Ghz has the 8 slots - it doesn't have a model number and Apple couldn't even tell me when I called! Yes, the 16x dual-layer burner doesn't entice me at all (8x is much better than the 2x DVR-104 I have now). Also, the 2.5 Ghz use water cooling, but the 2 and 2.3's don't?

[FFTT]

I'm pretty sure the newer 2.7's use the new manufacturer.

The best I can tell you is that I would not personally worry about getting
Apple Care for an air cooled 2.0 or 2.3, but I would be concerned about a 2.5 or 2.7

The Rev B 2.0 is a solid well proven performer.
The new 2.3 also uses the well proven server chips.

That's really what I'm using as the basis for my recommendations.

The Apple Store refurb "more info" link should give you a full breakdown of what the machine includes.

You need to call again and ask for a more well informed sales rep.

The model machine number in my Rev B 2.0 system profiler is listed as follows:

Hardware Overview:

Machine Name: Power Mac G5
Machine Model: PowerMac7,3
CPU Type: PowerPC G5 (2.2)
Number Of CPUs: 2
CPU Speed: 2 GHz
L2 Cache (per CPU): 512 KB
Memory: 1 GB
Bus Speed: 1 GHz
Boot ROM Version: 5.1.8f7

[acedickson]

$25-$50+ depending on where you get it from. I recommend checking resellerratings.com for the best price.

[Chip NoVaMac]

Trying to understand how the 2.3 is the "sweet spot". Performance wise it is about 15% faster in both bus and processor speed. For some of us, we will never need to add a PCI card to the PM. For $150 you can add a 250GB HDD to the 2.0 aftermarket. As for memory, some of us don't need 8gb RAM, let alone 4gb (though for "status" we might just do 4gb).

I ask because I am torn between the iMac 2.0 (mainly the 17" since I have a Dell FP2001 that I can span hack to) and the PM 2x2.0. The PM will cost me an extra $100, since I do want BT/AE. That is a $600 delta. Not that I can't afford the extra cost, but looking at Barefeats and such - there doesn't seem to be much added boost in performance. At least for those of us doing maybe non-gaming. And that $600 can go to other toys.

The areas that I would like to see a performance boost in are; creating DVD's from AVI's/MPG's in iDVD and a boost in some minor Photoshop work. For me I want to have a system that I will be happy with for the next 3 to 5 years.

[mintlivedotcom]

Ok, so now I think it's narrowed down to the refurbished dual 2 Ghz ($1649) OR the new dual 2.3 Ghz ($2299 EDU). As far as specs, the main difference I see is the processor speed. I don't know if it's worth the extra $650.

The refurbished comes with 8 slots for RAM, which is probably overkill for me right now, but is nice to have. The 300 Ghz difference in processor speed...hmmm...

[acedickson]

Ok, so now I think it's narrowed down to the refurbished dual 2 Ghz ($1649) OR the new dual 2.3 Ghz ($2299 EDU). As far as specs, the main difference I see is the processor speed. I don't know if it's worth the extra $650.

The refurbished comes with 8 slots for RAM, which is probably overkill for me right now, but is nice to have. The 300 Ghz difference in processor speed...hmmm...

I recommend the Dual 2.0 PM. There's just not enough extra features, in my opinion, to justify another $650 for the Dual 2.3 PM. There's alot you could do with that extra $650. You could make it equal in all respects, except processor speed, and probably come out with an extra $200-$300. Is the extra 300MHz per CPU worth that much each?

[rickvanr]

The refurbished comes with 8 slots for RAM, which is probably overkill for me right now, but is nice to have.

You say its overkill now, but when you goto buy RAM and notice how much cheaper 512MB x 2 is compared to 1GB sticks. You'll be happy.

[Chip NoVaMac]

You say its overkill now, but when you goto buy RAM and notice how much cheaper 512MB x 2 is compared to 1GB sticks. You'll be happy.


Based on OWC pricing a difference of about $20 to $30 between 5x512's and 2x1gb. Not a earth shattering sum IMO for 2GB RAM.

[GlynJones]

Well I ordered a refurb Dual 1.8 last week from the apple store as it was such a bargain when compared to new.

It should arrive tomorrow. Yippee!!!!!.

[FFTT]

The RAM slot issue IS important when you look at the single 2GB RAM stick prices.

This also has me concerned about the future Intel based machines.

Certainly, you can install DDR2 RAM in a 4 slot motherboard to bring it up to 8 GB's of RAM, but single DDR2 RAM 2GB sticks are currently running $950.00
each!

Buying at a reseller for $1899 does not guarantee you a Tiger install disk.

You could get the refurb 2.0 with 3 year Apple care AND Tiger directly from Apple for $50.00 less.

Buy 2 extra 1 GB RAM sticks 3rd party and that 2.0 will scream!

The only difficulty will be catching one available on the Apple Store web site.

They go FAST! In the box and out

[rickvanr]

Based on OWC pricing a difference of about $20 to $30 between 5x512's and 2x1gb. Not a earth shattering sum IMO for 2GB RAM.


Oh, well that I didn't know. I bought locally where it was $70 for 512, and $170 for 1GB.

[mintlivedotcom]

The only difficulty will be catching one available on the Apple Store web site.

They go FAST! In the box and out

Out of stock, but I will keep checking!!!

[FFTT]

Chip,

The 2.3 IS the sweet spot in the NEW 2005 models, but if you can find a 2004 Rev B 2.0 , you get the same 8 slot/133MHz PCI-X PRO motherboard for way less.

Apple Pro applications love RAM and your best performance increase will most likely be noticed by adding that extra RAM rather than relying on just processor speed.

I'm recommending the 2.0 Rev B because of the overall value and proven performance and that fact that you'll have a fantastic machine that will hold you well into 2010 and beyond.

Since you work right next to CompUSA, you should be able to get the store
manager to drop his price on the remaining NEW in Box Rev B's he has in stock. AND you may still qualify for the $9.95 Tiger upgrade from Apple.

If he tries to go more than $1749, I'd look elsewhere.

The Rev B 2.0's were priced NEW June 1st at $1699 education with an additional $100 rebate. So don't let anyone take you for a ride on price.

[Chip NoVaMac]

Oh, well that I didn't know. I bought locally where it was $70 for 512, and $170 for 1GB.

Not a problem. I, and others prefer dealing with OWC or Crucial (despite their internet pricing games) for their ability to stand behind their stuff long term.

I always prefer buying locally, but the better prices are from shops that I feel won't be around a year down the road.

[Chip NoVaMac]

Chip,

The 2.3 IS the sweet spot in the NEW 2005 models, but if you can find a 2004 Rev B 2.0 , you get the same 8 slot/133MHz PCI-X PRO motherboard for way less.

Apple Pro applications love RAM and your best performance increase will most likely be noticed by adding that extra RAM rather than relying on just processor speed.

I'm recommending the 2.0 Rev B because of the overall value and proven performance and that fact that you'll have a fantastic machine that will hold you well into 2010 and beyond.

Since you work right next to CompUSA, you should be able to get the store
manager to drop his price on the remaining NEW in Box Rev B's he has in stock. AND you may still qualify for the $9.95 Tiger upgrade from Apple.

If he tries to go more than $1749, I'd look elsewhere.

Thanks, will do. I will just have to wait till my sale of the TH settles by the end of the month (knelling down in sincere pray on that one right now) to buy from CompUSA.

[rickvanr]

Not a problem. I, and others prefer dealing with OWC or Crucial (despite their internet pricing games) for their ability to stand behind their stuff long term.

I always prefer buying locally, but the better prices are from shops that I feel won't be around a year down the road.


Well the shop I bought from has been around for a while now. Also, this year I took a great Geography class at university, were I learned alot about the uncertainty of dot com businesses. I'd by locally over a purely dot com company every time.

[brendel95]

Thanks, will do. I will just have to wait till my sale of the TH settles by the end of the month (knelling down in sincere pray on that one right now) to buy from CompUSA.

I got Rev B Dual 2.0 from CompUSA at $1749 last week and tiger dvd was in the box.

[Chip NoVaMac]

Well the shop I bought from has been around for a while now. Also, this year I took a great Geography class at university, were I learned alot about the uncertainty of dot com businesses. I'd by locally over a purely dot com company every time.


I understand what you are saying. But in areas like mine, the best price places seem to come and go with the wind. And the rest well, they tend to want to charge what they can. And for something like memory, I don;t see much need other than warranty support for the next 3 to 5 years.

[acedickson]

The RAM slot issue IS important when you look at the single 2GB RAM stick prices.

This also has me concerned about the future Intel based machines.

Certainly, you can install DDR2 RAM in a 4 slot motherboard to bring it up to 8 GB's of RAM, but single DDR2 RAM 2GB sticks are currently running $950.00
each!

Buying at a reseller for $1899 does not guarantee you a Tiger install disk.

You could get the refurb 2.0 with 3 year Apple care AND Tiger directly from Apple for $50.00 less.

Buy 2 extra 1 GB RAM sticks 3rd party and that 2.0 will scream!

The only difficulty will be catching one available on the Apple Store web site.

They go FAST! In the box and out

I don't see what the price of 2GB sticks matters. The system only supports 8GB of memory anyways.

[FFTT]

Current Intel motherboards only have 4 RAM slots, so it's more of a concern for future models If Apple doesn't reconfigure
their future x86 products with 8 RAM slots.

As far as I know, you could actually double up with 2GB DDR2 RAM sticks, but most manufacturers will only quote you maximum support specs based on generally available mainstream RAM

If anyone knows otherwise for certain, kindy fill us in.

[FFTT]

Now that Apple has dropped the single 1.8, I wish they would revive the
Rev B 2.0's and drop the Rev C so the entire lineup would use the PRO motherboard making all PowerMacs the highest quality they can offer.

[LReese]

I went for the 2.5 for the following reasons:

The dual 2.5 already took its initial depreciation hit ( I plan to dump the machine when the MACTel Powermacs come out). I could get either the 2.3 or 2.5 at the same price due to a company discount. With the exception of the DVD-R and the slightly smaller HD, the 2.5 appears to be the better deal. I think I may be able to get a little more out of the 2.5 at resale time.

I'll buy Applecare anyway (been through the horror of a MAC that died after 2 weeks) so I'll be good while I own the machine and the next owner will have peace of mind when purchasing.

The water cooling system is a non-issue to me.

(Edited below)
Don brings up some points below I also considered (struggled with) before buying. I was also concerned by the ait cooling, but decided it was an non-issue due to the length of time I'll own this Mac. The extra little bit of processor is what tipped the scale. If I were planning to hold on to the machine more than 3 years, I would have gone for the 2.3.

[lazyboy922]

It took me a long time to decide your same dilemma. I finally decided on the 2.3 for two reasons:

It's brand new (though I have heard great things on refurbs)

and the main thing was that I didn't want to mess with the liquid cooling. As someone pointed out to me while I was making my decision, liquid cooling will probably be phased out with something better in the near future. Air cooling has been around forever. So I just wanted something I felt more secure with.

I love my 2.3. I installed a 10,000 rpm raptor as my boot drive, and have 2.5 gb of ram. I am a designer (adobe cs, macromedia studio, final cut, and some animation with maya and lightwave) and it fits my needs perfectly.

Don

[brendel95]

Now that Apple has dropped the single 1.8, I wish they would revive the
Rev B 2.0's and drop the Rev C so the entire lineup would use the PRO motherboard making all PowerMacs the highest quality they can offer.

What are the difference between two motherboard except extra ram slot? For me those two looked exactly same except ram slots

[FFTT]

The prosumer motherboard used for the single 1.8, dual 1.8 and NEW 2005 Rev C dual 2.0 has 4 RAM slots and three open full-length 33MHz, 64-bit PCI slots.

The PRO motherboard used for the 2004 Rev B dual 2.0, 2004 dual 2.5 the 2005 dual 2.3 and 2.7 GHz models has 8 RAM slots and three open full-length PCI-X slots: one 133MHz, 64-bit slot and two 100MHz, 64-bit slots

PCI-X Expansion Slots

PCI and PCI-X cards enable the Power Mac G5 to perform specialized tasks, such as video capture and playback and audio digital signal processing (DSP). PCI-X supports 3.3V signaling and Universal 33MHz and 66MHz PCI cards.

Choosing a PCI or PCI-X Power Mac G5 system:

Three 64-bit PCI-X slots let you add one card running at 133MHz and two cards running at 100MHz, while the three 64-bit standard PCI slots allow you to add three 33MHz cards.

Hope this covers your question ;)

[mintlivedotcom]

I can get the Dual 2 for $1699 (EDU - $100 "Spring" rebate and a free cheap printer after rebate) or the refurbished Dual 2 at $1649. Now the price difference is even closer.

Pros of Each:

New = better graphics card and video memory, $89 option to add Apple wireless keyboard/mouse/Bluetooth, free cheap printer, new

Refurb. = 8 RAM slots, PCI-X slots, $50 less

Sorry I am so indecisive!

[mintlivedotcom]

This is my final request for advice (see post above), I promise. I plan on purchasing the refurbished online today or the new one at an Apple Store sometimes this week (before the $100 rebate deadline).

[jane doe]

Have you checked e-bay? There seems to be some pretty good deals.....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5783413854&ssPageName=ADME:B:EF:US:1

[mintlivedotcom]

Have you checked e-bay? There seems to be some pretty good deals.....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5783413854&ssPageName=ADME:B:EF:US:1

Is that yours? It's a little more than I was wanting to spend, but...

[FFTT]

I would ask you Apple sales rep if you still qualify for the education rebate
if you purchase the refurb.

Expandibility is always an important resale feature, even if you yourself never installed more than 2GB of RAM.

Dual layer DVD's are expensive
Swapping out later to a Dual layer drive would be no problem.

The graphics card option in the RevC would be nice to have pre-configured in the refurb, but you can always add that later and you haven't sacrificed
any overall expandibility.

What ever you decide at least now you are a well educated fully informed consumer and I hope the input here has helped you.

[mintlivedotcom]

I can get the Dual 2 for $1699 (EDU - $100 "Spring" rebate and a free cheap printer after rebate) or the refurbished Dual 2 at $1649. Now the price difference is even closer.

Pros of Each:

New = better graphics card and video memory, $89 option to add Apple wireless keyboard/mouse/Bluetooth, free cheap printer, new

Refurb. = 8 RAM slots, PCI-X slots, $50 less

Sorry I am so indecisive!

Yes, it sounds like I am learning a lot without even having the thing (whichever one that ends of being). I appreciate everyone's input!

[mintlivedotcom]

I would ask you Apple sales rep if you still qualify for the education rebate
if you purchase the refurb.



I read on the $100 Spring Education Rebate form that the computer must be taken possession of by this Saturday!

[JasonL]

My refurb rev. B Dual 2.0 will be here this Thursday. $1649 seemed like a really good deal to me considering that I would be upgrading the GPU to beyond what the new 2.0 comes with anyway. The 8 RAM slots, and the PCI-X didn't really matter all that much to me. Though I guess it is possible that in the future I will be able to appreciate it.

When one considers that the new 2.3 offers a 15% faster CPU, while costing potentially over 50% more (retail on the 2.3 is $2499, edu $2299), the rev. B dual 2.0 seems like a relative bargain.

Also, I'm pretty sure the edu rebate form I printed out (I'm a graduate student and qualify for the edu discount) states that the $100 off does not apply to refurbs.

[mintlivedotcom]

My refurb rev. B Dual 2.0 will be here this Thursday. $1649 seemed like a really good deal to me considering that I would be upgrading the GPU to beyond what the new 2.0 comes with anyway. The 8 RAM slots, and the PCI-X didn't really matter all that much to me. Though I guess it is possible that in the future I will be able to appreciate it.

When one considers that the new 2.3 offers a 15% faster CPU, while costing potentially over 50% more (retail on the 2.3 is $2499, edu $2299), the rev. B dual 2.0 seems like a relative bargain.

Also, I'm pretty sure the edu rebate form I printed out (I'm a graduate student and qualify for the edu discount) states that the $100 off does not apply to refurbs.

Right, but what about comparing the refurbished 2.0 to the new 2.0? That is my latest question and the price difference is only $50. I am only referring to the EDU pricing. Why did you buy the refurbished instead of the new?