Is MacRumors Too Popular?

[arn]

I'm not saying we're bigger than anyone else... but the forums/members/traffic has grown... and there are more people now than ever before...

With that, I know some people have left, many have come... and the question comes down to...

Has MacRumors forums gotten too busy? Has it grown beyond the "comfortable" level? Does it discourage some participation? Or is all activity good?

arn

[Mr. Anderson]

I've noticed the change in the forums, but it doesn't seem like its too much to me. And thinking on it, I don't know what would be too much, it a bit tricky to define.

[irmongoose]

Well the number of 'useless' posters (i.e. those who jsut want to increase their post-count) have immensly gone up. And it has gotten a bit hectic.

I personally avoid threads with over 40~50 posts... most times they have just gotten filled up with an instant-messaging type conversation between two or three people, and the conversation rarely has much to do with the topic of that thread.

But again, that's just me. Some people seem to enjoy those kind of threads. I dunno why, but...




irmongoose

[medea]

Well I've noticed at certain times during the day (which I already told you in that post) the server is too busy and you have to wait a few minutes before entering the forums. Some forums that I have come across close the registration gates for a certain period of time, and then open them back up so they can keep out the riffraff. Maybe that is a viable option for you to do?

[irmongoose]

Originally posted by medea
Well I've noticed at certain times during the day (which I already told you in that post) the server is too busy and you have to wait a few minutes before entering the forums. Some forums that I have come across close the registration gates for a certain period of time, and then open them back up so they can keep out the riffraff. Maybe that is a viable option for you to do?

Isn't that when the server is undergoing maintance?



irmongoose

[medea]

No, in my other thread arn stated "Overnight at around 3-4am eastern time, the server tends to get busy due to overnight maintenance scripts... such as backups etc... during the daytime (EST) hours, it should be ok."

and the problem is happening during the day anywhere around noon-4 o5 pm.

[whfsdude]

Originally posted by arn
Has MacRumors forums gotten too busy? Has it grown beyond the "comfortable" level? Does it discourage some participation? Or is all activity good?

It's not too busy and I am still comfortable. I think the problem would be that there is no mac news. I am finding the rumors to be kind of boring. Look at these recent LCD rumors. It's not something someone is going to be crazy about and it also isn't something we are going to debate upon a lot. I would try to fine more things that can be debated upon rather than just cold facts :) Arn, you have gotten too good at editing the rumors ;)

[mac15]

ITs way to over populated, when we had 5000 members it was nice, but now there 13,000, and its getting out of hand regulares are leaving, I liked it back i the day, It was so cool everyone new everyone, its was fun, but its changed and its getting out of control, it must be near impossible for you to handle.

[Over Achiever]

Is it just me, or is a lot more newbies starting threads about pirated software?:confused:

And also, even though we have over 13,000 members now, over 3,000 signed up over the MWNY period, and over half of those only post occasionally. So even though macrumors has become popular, and more and more quick-tempered posters are posting, I don't see it as a bad thing.

[Mr. Anderson]

Its partially growing pains, once the newbies get up to speed with what is acceptable posting form, avoid personal attacks, etc. There has been some need to shut down a few more threads, but not all that much. I imagine things will settle out shortly.

D

[arn]

Well, as a thought, we could remove the recent comment links on the main page... still have article commetns linked per usual... but deemphasize the others... just brainstorming... thoughts?

arn

[vniow]

I think you should only do that when things get a bit more out of hand, in the past few dayd, we had a sure of newbies post, many who have registered months in advance and all they do is whine and insult people.

If it doesn't start slowing down an a couple weeks at the most, then remove them.

About every few days, I see another thread in the Wasteland and that's not a good sign.

[wake up Jobs!!!]

I think it is great how much traffic this site gets. You have to look at the big picture in this: more people on this site , reading this site and adding info to this site, means that more people are switching to macs or people are trying to. I mean atleast weekly we all see those threads about a new mac user or soon to be mac user asking questions, I think that is great! This all means that what apple is doing is working (advertising etc....). The mac community is growing fast and this site im sure is aiding the cause greatly.:D

-GaBe-O

[alex_ant]

Originally posted by arn
Well, as a thought, we could remove the recent comment links on the main page... still have article commetns linked per usual... but deemphasize the others... just brainstorming... thoughts?
I've never agreed with people's post counts being tallied. When post numbers are put right next to people's names like that, it encourages associating # of posts with that person's "status" and it also encourages spurious and meaningless conversation which adds to the amount of useless junk posts in the forums. You can tell this happens by the number of newbies who say things like, "Well, I'm only a newbie, so don't flame me..." or "Well, I'm only a newbie, so I know my opinion doesn't mean much..." etc.

The same goes for account creation dates... useless information which only serves to strengthen class-based elitism. IMO, everyone having the same status (except those who buy their mugs) and everyone being on the same level ---> fewer junk posts and higher-quality threads.

Otherwise, Macrumors is neither too big nor too small for me... There's neither too much information to keep up with, nor not enough information to keep things exciting, and that's great.

[Mr. Anderson]

Post count also gets in the way of avatar status. There are a few cases where members spam to get their post count up, but this is a very small number and its been easily handled. Removing post count won't make that much difference, member lables are fine - newbies aren't all 'new' to macs, and most people know that.

[Doctor Q]

With more people participating, it becomes more important that we can find what we want to read and filter out what we don't want to read. The categories that arn maintains are the first cut. It may be time-consuming, but the efforts to move threads, cut off duplicate threads, etc. become more important as the number of posts go up.

We can all help by using useful titles for new threads. Instead of titles such as

Well...I finally...
I Have a Good Idea...I Think.

it helps if titles convey the subject.

If we took a vote, I'd vote to drop the display of post counts and the "rewards" for posting milestones.

[FattyMembrane]

i'm relatively new, so some of the MR vets may not agree with me (sorry alex_ant, i had to say it :D), but i think that the large ammount of traffic is a good thing. i really enjoy getting quick and plentiful responses to my threads and also like being able to help out others with their questions. i used to post at the "spymac" and "thinksecret" boards but there were too few posters to make it worth the trouble. i do guest posting over at "the mac observer" every once in a while and am fairly certain that i account for about 50% of the posts (threads go for weeks without responses).

the only posts i tend to skip over are those in the community discussion, as they can grow to 7-8 pages in length before i even know that they exist. meaningless posts are a nuissnace, but not too terrible and i think that the moderators could easily intimidate newbies trying to raise their post count.

[sparkleytone]

Originally posted by alex_ant


IMO, everyone having the same status (except those who buy their mugs) and everyone being on the same level ---> fewer junk posts and higher-quality threads.



commie. :P

i really don't know how to approach this...

on one hand there are way too many frivolous threads and posts. this makes the forums damn near impossible to manage yourself on. it must be hell for anyone who still has email sent to them in their active threads.

on the other hand, its great that the community here has grown and that this seems to be the best place for people to hang out and talk mac. i think alot of people on this board feel some sort of connection with at least one or two people also on the board.

maybe the llamas should just go to spymac ;)

i have yet to understand the avatar 'status' thing. it just isnt all that important to me. i didnt join this forum to get 500 posts and have an avatar. if i wanted an avatar i would have chosen a different community that just gave you an avatar. maybe thats why i really didnt even have an avatar until i had like 800 posts or something.

[MacAztec]

I think there are too many people now. I miss when we had all the guys that talked to eachother, and pretty much knew eachother. Now, were overcome by people who post 3 times and never come back.

[Durandal7]

I am for stricter policing. Maybe it would help stem the stream of attacks/useless posts if the Macrumors "vets" (as in those who have been around long enough to know all the rules) start warning the newer members more.

As for taking away poster status, that may be a bad idea. You would either have to abolish avatars altogether or grant them to every member, which may be bad for server load. As avatars have become rather integral with the avatar contests and all it may be a bad idea. How about just not displaying post count next to the user name?

[MacJagger]

Although I´m a newbie I have to admit that a small forum is way nicer. I entered just a few days ago and saw a lot of spam posts and I can see a lack of serious discussions, that means to me no matter what the topic is people should not only post to say SOMETHING

[cleo]

I haven't been posting nearly as much lately, and I think it's mostly because the community has grown sooooo much. I was starting to feel like if I wasn't around for a day I missed so much that it was hard to get caught up again. I mean, there's always been a little of that in certain threads (the poltiics ones especially)... but with sooooo many new members it's just hard to keep up.

Just my $.02.

[chmorley]

I hadn't really thought about it. The increased traffic (in and of itself) is not necessarily a bad thing--it is more the pointless posts that are a bit annoying. It does seem that if the goal is to cut down on pointless posts, people should not be rewarded for them. It certainly seems that people are racking up huge post numbers to get an avatar.

So there are three ideas that make sense to me:

1. Allow everyone to have avatars

2. Allow no avatars

3. Tie avatars to something other than post count. You could either connect it to length of time as a poster (e.g., 6 month minimum, maybe with a 50-100 post minimum), or purchasing something at the store.

I think any one of these would cut down on the pointless posts.

Other than that, I think it's probably a good thing that many people are interested in the site/topic. Reducing the number of annoying or pointless posts and threads is probably the ony bad thing. It's tough to cut through all the crap sometimes.

Chris

[Durandal7]

Originally posted by chmorley

1. Allow everyone to have avatars

2. Allow no avatars

3. Tie avatars to something other than post count. You could either connect it to length of time as a poster (e.g., 6 month minimum, maybe with a 50-100 post minimum), or purchasing something at the store.

But there are serious problems with each idea:
1. The server load would increase by quite a bit, the forums would not have as organized an appearance either.

2. With the established avatar contests that could cause quite an uprising.

3. Avatars being tied to registration date could work out badly because of the number of inactive accounts. As for being a contributor, that would only piss people off and result in DGVPG 2.0.

The current avatar system should probably just be left alone. I think that more mods and/or stricter moderating is the key.

[mymemory]

I would say that Macrumors is a very popular site because the topicas are well organize. I mean, there is a forum just for the comunity, one for hardware, another for software, and so on. That helps a lot spacially when you are trying to acces an specific kind of information. Most of the forums are not that well divided.

For example, I use to visit www.vjforums.com, the do not divide the vj software for mac or pc and that is a problem because I spend time reading information that at the end is for PC users.

On the other hand, visitors come here for different reasons. In my case I like to practice my english, have some important cultural exchange and finally talking about something I'm familiar with... Macs.

Some other people may visit the site to spend their time "chatting" and some others just looking for reliable information. In either case most of the people may get bored after a while or simply go on with their lives.

The point is that in Macrumor is easy to ventilate the information because the way the forums are structured. That is attractive.

[chmorley]

Originally posted by Durandal7

But there are serious problems with each idea:
1. The server load would increase by quite a bit, the forums would not have as organized an appearance either.

2. With the established avatar contests that could cause quite an uprising.

3. Avatars being tied to registration date could work out badly because of the number of inactive accounts. As for being a contributor, that would only piss people off and result in DGVPG 2.0.

The current avatar system should probably just be left alone. I think that more mods and/or stricter moderating is the key. I believe there are also problems with each of your reasons. People often forget that there are downsides to pretty much every argument, including the argument to maintain the status quo.

1. Agreed. This is my least favorite idea, but other sites seem to manage it. It must be possible.

2. People would complain. Oh my. Alert the media. Not wanting to upset people is a terrible reason not to do something helpful. Nonetheless, while a viable option, this seems not to be the most sensible approach.

3. You missed on this one. You seem to have read only a part of what I wrote. If registration date is used withsome minimal post number, this is not an issue. In addition, why would inactive accounts be a problem? There are inactive accounts now. Besides, if someone signed up 6 months ago and is no longer posting, they don't create an avatar. No problem.

"Stricter moderating" is the idea that I think is most likely to create problems. First, what does it mean? Do the moderators delete messages that are pointless and/or reduce post counts? That doesn't solve the problem of traffic at all. If anything, it will create more (e.g., "Why was my post deleted?" threads).

The best ways to eliminate problematic behavior are to a) punish it (not really possible), b) ignore it (not really effective in this case), or c) remove reinforcers (e.g., avatar as the reward for posting many pointless times). Like it or not, this would work. I don't see how "stricter moderating" can address this effectively. If we consider this a big enough problem to address it, we must change the contingencies.

Chris

[peterjhill]

It is certainly better than slashdot. When you have 200 posts to a thread in the first hour, that is pretty crazy. I pretty much just read the list of stories on /. and maybe read the article links, I pretty much never read the posts.

On MacRumors, I have a toolbar shortcut to the new posts page, and check it a few times a day. I will "open new window" on threads that are interesting, going through all the new post list pages, mark all forums read, then peruse the actual threads. I will tend to read posts by people whom I know better, unless the thread is very interesting. I tend to ignore many of the rumor pages, unless they make the front page.

[medea]

I think I'm going to have to agree with Durandal7 on this one. your bound to get some immature people in here, especially when macrumors is such a well known site, but stricter policies would help keep those people in check, and they would probably leave on theyre own. This would probably also help keep the "old-timers" and regulars here.
[edit]if arn is asking the question, there must be a reason for it[edit]

[Durandal7]

Originally posted by chmorley
2. People would complain. Oh my. Alert the media. Not wanting to upset people is a terrible reason not to do something helpful. Nonetheless, while a viable option, this seems not to be the most sensible approach.

3. You missed on this one. You seem to have read only a part of what I wrote. If registration date is used withsome minimal post number, this is not an issue. In addition, why would inactive accounts be a problem? There are inactive accounts now. Besides, if someone signed up 6 months ago and is no longer posting, they don't create an avatar. No problem.

"Stricter moderating" is the idea that I think is most likely to create problems. First, what does it mean? Do the moderators delete messages that are pointless and/or reduce post counts? That doesn't solve the problem of traffic at all. If anything, it will create more (e.g., "Why was my post deleted?" threads).

My bad, I misunderstood part of you post on 3.

As for 2, the complaining would get out of hand. All of the forums would be overrun with bitching and pointless petitions. The avatar contest was a good diversion on the boards as well. That's the only reason I'm against it.

What I mean by stricter moderating is more warnings should be issued to newer members. Some threads should also have been closed a lot sooner then they had been. A good example is the obesity thread in Current Events (now in the wasteland) I understand why duke was trying to just warn people and keep the thread open but that probably should have been closed a lot earlier.

All I'm saying is that since it seems that there is little that we can do about traffic, we may as well try to impose more order.

[chmorley]

Originally posted by Durandal7
...
All I'm saying is that since it seems that there is little that we can do about traffic, we may as well try to impose more order. I understand, and I disagree about not being able to do much about traffic. If the incentive to post a lot is removed (sensible, since reasonable people don't seem to need an incentive to write interesting posts), the number of superfluous posts will decrease. They will always exist to some extent, but right now they are rewarded.

If I am enough of a bonehead to post "Here I am", I don't know if I am dissuaded by some moderator saying, "Don't do that." I then come back, say, "I'm sorry," and I have increased my post count by two.

The behavior will not change until the contingencies have changed.

Chris

[Durandal7]

Originally posted by chmorley

If I am enough of a bonehead to post "Here I am", I don't know if I am dissuaded by some moderator saying, "Don't do that." I then come back, say, "I'm sorry," and I have increased my post count by two.

That's true. Maybe some sort of "3-strike" system to endanger their account.

Getting back to the original post regarding if the amount of activity discourages participation, I have seen an interesting system in place at another BBS. There is a link on the forum page that brings you to a listing of several more forums. Each section gives access based on post count/date registered. This way brand new members have a chance to have discussions with no threat of the regulars dominating them and the older members can have conversations without the occasional troll saying "you all suck"

I'm not sure if this would help or harm the situation but it's worth a thought. This way the trolls and blatant spammers (like samdweck) would be rooted out before reaching the higher forums.

[kishba]

i haven't felt the need to post in a long time. i've sort of reverted back to my newb habits of just reading threads about rumors.

even though MR has grown into a vast community, the main reason i visit is still because of rumors. that will never change.

since there haven't been very many leaks from apple about annoucments (and why should there be since the computer industry is sucking it up right now) the site's interest to me has slowly declined. reading hundreds of posts about politics and lifestyles just doesn't fit with macrumors.com

my one suggestion to make MR better is to further separate the community portion of the web site into another section. perhaps even a whole different site.

[vniow]

Originally posted by Durandal7

This way the trolls and blatant spammers (like samdweck) would be rooted out before reaching the higher forums.


Speaking of.....................he stole your tar at AL's forums.http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/veronica/eek21.gif

Just thought you'd like to know.

[scem0]

I haven't been here that long, and I notice the difference. I wouldn't say that it is too big. It is the perfect size right now, but I won't be terribly angry :mad: if it gets too big :D:D:D.

[MacJagger]

I think their are two real problems:
1. Some people miss the intimate feeling of a small forum
Unfortunately you can´t really do something against that unless limiting the registration of new people, it is far too late for that.
And no solution could solve that problem, if you limit the forum to people with many posts but that wouldn´t allow new members to join, I really want to become a serious member in here, people like me wouldn´t be able to enter the community. If you would charge people to the forum there would be many "gooD" members leaving too.
2. The big problem are the spammers and it is a lot of work to get rid of them the admins have to work through the threads and judge by themselves who is a spammer and throw them out.

[scem0]

Some people miss the intimate feeling of a small forum

I think that is really true. You really get to know the people despite knowing absolutely nothing about them :p . Such as, I can tell whether a common poster is having a good day or a bad day. And I am sure that that goes vice versa too. (If you want to 'see' me in a bad mood, take a look at my 'me being mad at christianity/church/religion' thread. I was kinda pissed :D.).

[arn]

Some good thoughts...

I think the forum structure helps... I feel there are people who only stay in the News Discussion area... and those that do the whole thing... and others who stay in the community section.

The community section is, for the most part, around to take most of the pointless/random posts...

As you might be able to tell, there is stricter moderating in the rest of the areas.

Regarding post counts... if I had known how much trouble it would have caused... I would have not allowed avatars if I knew they would cause these sorts if problems... the original thought was that people who pariticpated more would be more recognized.


arn

[Doctor Q]

I suggest that we kill(*) two birds with one stone: I suggest making avatars available only to those who already have them or who sponsor MacRumors by making a donation or purchase. This will reduce useless posts by removing the incentive AND encourage more donations.

(*) No animals were harmed in the making of this post.

[evildead]

Yeah.. I have noticed that there is a lot more newbies out there now... and many are racing to hit the 500 post mark.. some even say so in their posts... "I'm sorry for the worthless post.. but I want to hit 500"... er.. something like that.

It's not so big that I real discussion can't happen... yet. At least threads dont jump to 50posts in less than a day.

I do see less and less of us old timers arround but I can't tell if they have left or if they just get lost in the masses.

I have seen some newbies ansering tech questions in the help forum that they probably didnt know enuph to try and help the issue... bad advice probably is not a good thing to give.

-evildead

.......am I considered an old timer?

[springscansing]

Originally posted by Doctor Q
I suggest that we kill(*) two birds with one stone: I suggest making avatars available only to those who already have them or who sponsor MacRumors by making a donation or purchase. This will reduce useless posts by removing the incentive AND encourage more donations.

(*) No animals were harmed in the making of this post.

If you do this though, it's going to seperate the new posters from the regulars even more. Maybe this is your goal though. I am somewhat new here, and I must say that if I needed to donate to just get a silly spinning picture next to my name, I would likely no longer have much on an interest in being part of the community. Antagonizing new members won't help anything.

I agree with an earlier post which said it should be a standard amount of time with a minimum post limit, such as 50-100. Not too many people are going to setup an account, wait 6 months, then post 50 nonsense messages just for the 'privilage' of having Shrek next to your name. I think this is the best way to eliminate nonsense posts.

Deleting accounts is kind of silly.. since people just make another one.

[scem0]

Deleting accounts is kind of silly.. since people just make another one.

I agree. Can you ban an IP address? Does that make sense. Can you make it to where someone can't come to a site, no matter what they do?

[chmorley]

Originally posted by scem0


I agree. Can you ban an IP address? Does that make sense. Can you make it to where someone can't come to a site, no matter what they do? You certainly can ban an IP address, but many (probably most) people have dynamically assigned IP addresses, so that eliminates that option.

Chris

[Nipsy]

As the community has expanded, the quality of Mac/Rumors posts has really decreased.

Currently, other news features a thread about anti-bacterial soap....enough said.

I remember other news as an area where Mac news, and non-rumor discussions took place, now it is littered with threads on Moscow, Dell, soap, Lawyers, Canada, and jurassic birds.

I had always thought that this stuff belonged in community...maybe I'm incorrect, but that was the way it used to be.

If MacRumors is to remain MacRumors, it would be nice to see the fluff kept in community, and the MacRelated topics kept higher up the masthead.

[arn]

Originally posted by Nipsy

I remember other news as an area where Mac news, and non-rumor discussions took place, now it is littered with threads on Moscow, Dell, soap, Lawyers, Canada, and jurassic birds.


huh? The other news are has only been around a month or so....

arn

[medea]

I posted the thread about the soap, and I belive it is posted in the correct category: Current Events, it is an article that was just in Reuters.......and the people in that post have just about all had something to add to the topic, and again it is in the Current Events category, people talk about things other than macs you know. The problem lies with the members of this community that do not add anything to the community but instead take away from it, and the only thing to combat that is stricter policing. Another thing that I've noticed that policing would help with is duplicate threads, just recently there have been 4-5 new threads all on the same subject of a new VPR Matrix laptop that is "supposed" to compete with the Tibook, I'd say one thread is enough for that eh?

[Nipsy]

Originally posted by arn


huh? The other news are has only been around a month or so....

arn

I guess what I meant is that the space which other news occupies used to be for Apple/Mac related news which was not a rumor, and the topics which now exist in other news were in community.

I would certainly think that switching other news and other Mac topics on the front page is a no brainer, and if it were my site, I would all lump non computer news in with community.

I come here to read about Mac related stuff. I get my fill of useless knowledge elsewhere, and think that the front page should reflect a Mac focus more than it currently does.

[Nipsy]

Originally posted by medea
I posted the thread about the soap, and I belive it is posted in the correct category: Current Events, it is an article that was just in Reuters.......and the people in that post have just about all had something to add to the topic, and again it is in the Current Events category, people talk about things other than macs you know. The problem lies with the members of this community that do not add anything to the community but instead take away from it, and the only thing to combat that is stricter policing. Another thing that I've noticed that policing would help with is duplicate threads, just recently there have been 4-5 new threads all on the same subject of a new VPR Matrix laptop that is "supposed" to compete with the Tibook, I'd say one thread is enough for that eh?

Granted, that people do talk about things other than Macs. I would argue whether soap news ever qualifies as an current event, however.

My point is that this is a Mac related rumors site, and Mac news/rumors should feature more highly on the front page than giant Alaskan birds. This has not been the case recently.

The current front page 'Recent Comments' area looks like this:

News Articles (Mac related)
Rumors (Mac related)
Other News (All over the place)
Mac Apps (Mac related)
Other Mac Topics (Mac related)
Community (All over the place)
Site News (Administrative)

Usability practices would suggest grouping Mac related above all over the place above administrative

I think that this arrangement has led to some of the duplicate posts, as well as a decline in the quality of organization. With only the 4 most recent threads visible, many think that they have news requiring a new thread, which may be below the page fold, or the thread fold.

Anyway, just some thoughts...

I know this is in the wrong place, but it would be a huge timesaver it the thread post count numbers on the front page, currently unlinked, offered 'Go to first Unread Post' functionality.

[Nipsy]

Holy smoke that was a fast edit!

Thanks!

[Doctor Q]

Originally posted by scem0
Can you ban an IP address? Does that make sense. Can you make it to where someone can't come to a site, no matter what they do?
If people aren't sophisticated enough to know about clearing their web browser cookies then a "don't allow further access" cookie could be stored on their computer, preventing them from posting or even signing up again. At least in theory.

[Computer_Phreak]

i think MR is too populated; there are too many posts to read and synthesize all the information.

To fix the post count problem, you could make an algorithm to determine who had a combination of the most posts with the greatest amount of words per post.

[cubist]

Hey, I just was able to read MacRumors from my Newton 2100 using NewtsCape! :D I'm posting this from a regular computer tho.

I'd like to compliment you on having a really good site. I used to read AppleInsider a lot, but despite the name, there was never anyone there who knew anything. There were constant debates like "Confirmed: 1.5 GHz Powerbooks on 10/24!" followed by "Confirmed: You are an idiot!" and "Confirmed: 800 MHz Powerbooks from now til doomsday". Whereas on MacRumors, there's at least a little effort to separate genuine rumors from pure speculation. Keep up the good work!

[bousozoku]

I really like the site, busy or not. It's only posters like samdweck who have been warned multiple times and continue to post 3 and 4 at a time in the same thread that irritate me.

I try not to comment unless I have something to say, but I would imagine that I had a few frivolous posts on my way to 500.

I find that, Americans, in particular, love to compete and that number means that "they must" compete. Take away the numbers to achieve the minimum of sanity. :D

There are many good, conscientious people here but it seems they post less or maybe it's just that the percentage compared to the spammers'.

When I opped on an IRC channel, we ended up having to ban entire networks temporarily b/c someone did not learn and their network provider was not huge or widely seen on our channel. Perhaps, if you could ban in this fashion, it might make a small difference from time-to-time.

By the way, I'd be happy to remain a 6502 forever. :)

[vniow]

Originally posted by bousozoku
I really like the site, busy or not. It's only posters like samdweck who have been warned multiple times and continue to post 3 and 4 at a time in the same thread that irritate me.



Are you aware that he's a writer for AmbitiousLemon.com now?!?http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/veronica/eek21.gif

[Durandal7]

Hmmm, even now that the post count had been hidden I fear that the rash of trash posts and trolling will continue. They are right about this not being as good a community as it once was, all the members seem to have become bitter towards each other lately with 5 page arguments.

Ah well, see you all during MWSF.

[vniow]

I think we need at least one more moderator.

AbmitiousLemon's on vacation, eyelikeart visits MR quite often, but not as much as I've seen him visit before and dukestreet seems like he's busy from time to time.

With the current stream of new members in the past few months, two (one on vacation) mods just doesn't seem like enough.

I am no way suggesting we set up some kind of military rule here, just in the time that I've been here, arn's had to put up a rules reminder and create a forum just for useless posts and I don't like it when I see anither thread in the Wasteland, but if that's what it takes then so be it.

My thoughts.

[Hemingray]

If I may bring something to the table here: the amount of forum categories seems to have proliferated so much that some people may be confused which category to post in. A lot of categories overlap each other. I think this may be contributing to the "getting too big" mentality.

Another suggestion as far as member overload, is prune the people who don't post, or haven't posted in over a year, or something to that extent. That will dramatically reduce the member count right there, or will encourage the guys on the sidelines to get involved!

[Doctor Q]

Originally posted by Hemingray
Another suggestion as far as member overload, is prune the people who don't post, or haven't posted in over a year, or something to that extent. That will dramatically reduce the member count right there, or will encourage the guys on the sidelines to get involved!
I'm puzzled. What's wrong with having members who don't post? If those who post are providing useful information for others, whether they post or not, what's the problem? Please explain.

[Hemingray]

Originally posted by Doctor Q

I'm puzzled. What's wrong with having members who don't post? If those who post are providing useful information for others, whether they post or not, what's the problem? Please explain.

What's the point of becoming a forum member if you don't ever post? There's no advantage really, especially since registration isn't required to view the forums.

Check out Thread #1 (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?threadid=1) and see joe_k at the bottom? He posted a total of 2 (two) times and hasn't posted since April 2001, the same month he registered. I think it's safe to say that joe_k is definitely not active. It's just a waste of database space. Although small, the accumulation of several abandoned posters does make a difference.

I was speaking more from a sheer member count aspect, really. I'm sure that of the ~12,500 members, the actual active group of users are much less than that.

P.S. Happy birthday to me! :cool:

[Cappy]

Arn, I have nothing but respect for the job you do with this site. I honestly don't see there being much of a problem currently but from my experience of being around various forums in the past I could see where this is the time to be asking for feedback.

I realize some here are missing the old days but for me frankly I do not even though I'm not really an old timer by any means. I honestly don't come here to mix and mingle but to catch up on the latest rumors, news, and info. I'll throw in my three cents once in awhile when I feel the need or desire. Maybe I'm crazy but it seems like there are much less of the condescending, insulting replies now. They're still there but much less in effect making this a friendlier board with a better exchange of ideas and info. Some of the oldtimers that I don't see around here any longer always replied as if they were insecure elitists. Those types of personalities don't always sit well with me.

At any rate it's obvious traffic has grown which to me is a good thing. If I were to recommend changes, I would recommend two things. One, remove the post counts which you apparently already did and, two, add a few trusted and reliable people on to help moderate things a bit. Not much, just enough to keep things on topic. Much in the same way you have at times by being a part of the discussion of the actual topic. You don't want someone who never participates and plays god as a moderator. As for the avatar thing I don't even know anything about it. Never messed with it and have no intentions of doing so. I'm the kind of guy with blank looking checks in my checkbook. I don't go out looking for a cool design or picture to put on my checks either. :)

[scem0]

I have to agree with you there. Arn has done an awesome job. Hosting this site can't be easy. I think arn has done great work, and I trust that he will keep up the good work.

GJ! :D

[ibjoshua]

Originally posted by Cappy
Arn, I have nothing but respect for the job you do with this site. I honestly don't see there being much of a problem currently but from my experience of being around various forums in the past I could see where this is the time to be asking for feedback.

I realize some here are missing the old days but for me frankly I do not even though I'm not really an old timer by any means. I honestly don't come here to mix and mingle but to catch up on the latest rumors, news, and info. I'll throw in my three cents once in awhile when I feel the need or desire. Maybe I'm crazy but it seems like there are much less of the condescending, insulting replies now. They're still there but much less in effect making this a friendlier board with a better exchange of ideas and info. Some of the oldtimers that I don't see around here any longer always replied as if they were insecure elitists. Those types of personalities don't always sit well with me.

At any rate it's obvious traffic has grown which to me is a good thing. If I were to recommend changes, I would recommend two things. One, remove the post counts which you apparently already did and, two, add a few trusted and reliable people on to help moderate things a bit. Not much, just enough to keep things on topic. Much in the same way you have at times by being a part of the discussion of the actual topic. You don't want someone who never participates and plays god as a moderator. As for the avatar thing I don't even know anything about it. Never messed with it and have no intentions of doing so. I'm the kind of guy with blank looking checks in my checkbook. I don't go out looking for a cool design or picture to put on my checks either. :)

i agree with cappy and one or two others here.

i think if you're going to change anything more on the home page maybe think about getting rid of the community story links. by-and-large that is not why most of us come here. we come for mac/apple rumours.

i've been registered longer than plenty of people with avatars and i really have to ask: what rubbish have some of them been typing? i personally try not to get involved in instant messaging-type discussions but get on and read the forums and leave a post when someone says something that i strongly agree or disagree with.

and arn in answer to your question: no it is not a bad thing! why not capitalise on it? compact the home page a bit and sell a few more ads. if there are more visitors then there should be a greater operating revenue for you - bump up the charge for new advertisers. if you want to cut down on the non-mac rubbish make it harder for newbies to post new threads and make the community threads more temporary or something.

my 2 rupees

i_b_joshua

PS i like not having a constant reminder of how many posts i've got. good move arn

[whfsdude]

Originally posted by chmorley
1. Allow everyone to have avatars

This could work if you allowed people to remote link their avatars and only have the people with 500+ posts upload them to the server. I think the combination with remote linking and taking away the visible post count will work.

[medea]

I think that now that we can not see how many posts we have that this might (and I say might) cut down on the influx of useless posts, for some people the only reason they post is to get an avatar or some high ranking in the groups. We will see how it works out, helps or not, and in the meantime we will have to trust arn's judgement. I know I do.

[chmorley]

Quick move, Arn, removing the post counts. I think that it removes one reinforcer--seeing your post count increase each time you post. I think that will help to some degree.

However, I still think that if you want to see a significant decrease in useless posts, you need to change the post count/avatar relationship. Maybe you have that in the works. Based on the concerns you seem to be expressing, I wouldn't be surprised to see that soon.

I am not sure how someone's inactive account occupying a few bytes in a database is a problem. I can't imagine what benefit would be gained by deleting these inactive accounts. I do agree, however, that it inflates the number of members. That doesn't seem to be the problem, though.

It's those damn, "I'm sorry I've been posting to get an avatar, but I really want one." "Sorry." "Thanks for the feedback." "Sorry about that," threads. They are shameless, brainless, and pointless.

Chris

[Gaz]

Perhaps it's worth considering increasing the time between posts. When people realise that they must wait X amount of time between posts they'll either not bother with silly comebacks or put a bit more thought and time in to their post.

Deleting users doesn't help as people will just reregister. At least with keeping old accounts you get a clue of who someone is.

I think that more mods should be encouraged. Now I like that here is very laid back but at times it needs someone to step in. Now for a normal user to say stuff normally just inflates the arguement and wastes more posts. Perhaps some kind of sin bin, so when people are pushing the boundaries they are banned from posting for a couple of days. Then the people causing hassle just for the hell of it get ejected.

Along with that if people are just wasting posts then it is the responsibility of everyone else to highlight this to a mod who can then take appropriate action.

Clearly there is no one easy answer and the number of people is testiment to the great work that Arn and everyone has done. Also it shows a growing popularity in the Apple platform.

Hope these are good ideas.

G

[Durandal7]

Originally posted by edvniow
I think we need at least one more moderator.

AbmitiousLemon's on vacation, eyelikeart visits MR quite often, but not as much as I've seen him visit before and dukestreet seems like he's busy from time to time.


I think that's a fine idea. AL, duke and eye do a good job, but it might help to have one or two more moderaters. That way a moderater would be online most of the time.

[vniow]

So who do you think would be up to the task?

There's only a few people here who seem to fit the profile I would think.
I'm not opposed to it, though I don't think I would be the best choice for a number of reasons.

It's no small responsibility, there's a lot of posts to look over.

Macrumors has gone through a lot of changes in the past few months and I'm afraid that two active mods isn't enough.

[Rower_CPU]

I have a logitical question regarding avatars and post count: How will people know when they are eligible to have one w/out a visible post count?

Will you create some sort of auto-email that goes out to the people after their 500th post goes up? Or will everyone just have to keep checking their personal stats to see where they stand?

[Durandal7]

Originally posted by edvniow
So who do you think would be up to the task?

There's only a few people here who seem to fit the profile I would think.
I'm not opposed to it, though I don't think I would be the best choice for a number of reasons.
.

I don't know. Someone who is online a lot and obeys the majority of the site rules. Who did you have in mind? I really don't have a clue.

I'm actually surprised there are so few mods, most sites this size have many more.

[vniow]

Originally posted by Durandal7


I don't know. Someone who is online a lot and obeys the majority of the site rules. Who did you have in mind? I really don't have a clue.

I'm actually surprised there are so few mods, most sites this size have many more.


Well, that narrows it down a bit.

I'm online almost every day, so are you and Rower.
jarhatfield visits a lot, but I don't think he's mod material (no offense jef)
King Cobra I could see as a mod.
Jello mainly visits the private forum and the short films thread now, he doesn't visit as much as I've seen him, and when he does, he normally stays in the community section.

It will have to be someone who visits at least every other day (not including weekends) and browses through every forum.

I do that, but I don't know if I'd be good mod material or not, it's a big decicion and I don't think I'm ready for that responsibility, though I'm not opposed to the job if I'm asked.

[King Cobra]

>King Cobra I could see as a mod.

Someone say my name? If I didn't have to leave the forums every couple of weekends I would be about as active as dukestreet. :)

Hemingray, regarding the absence of users and their activity on the forums, let me take for example, to show my disapproval for your idea of removing "inactive users", john123. john123 was rather active in 2001, up to November 25. He came back and posted a few times in May, in this thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4587), and has been very active in the MacRumors News Discussion, under the November 5th thread.

My point is that even if 99 percent of so many "inactive users" don't post here, visit here, whatever, there is still some percentage of users, who visit and contribute, even if it's once in a while. Therefore, I think its unfair to deny less active users the right to post on the forums.

Just looking at the first 60 or so posts,
(1) I strongly agree that those who apologize after they create a thread, just for people to pat himself on his back, and after they have been regarded with by an authority figure on the forums, are either immature, fustrated, or both. If it's one time, a warning should be the effect. After the first time, see what happened to samdweck.

(2) There has already been a discussion about whether or not we should change the avatar system, based on either the quality of posts, or the number of posts. This brings to mind a previous encounter of a possible change in how organization of the memberlist would be dealt with. Specifically, members could be viewed with the most posts per day to least posts per day. This would not work, because of people like john123, who occassionally post for a period of time, or because of people with something more than halfway decent to say almost every post. I realize that the basis of this memberlist organization is only an option, and not a requirement for how members are rated, but both that and a change in the current avatar system carry two identical drawbacks: Biased opinions and the lack of 100 percent accuracy. If we changed the avatar system for users on the forums to rate what someone says in each post, there is bound to be someone immature to give someone a 1 out of 5 (or out of whatever) because of jealousy or some other ridiculous cause. Even more, what if the person only posts once, is a "work of art", gets all high ratings, puts up his avatar and never posts again? I think that would also result in biased opinions. I will not expand to the discussion of the realm of "DGVPG 2.0" though. :)

(3) To directly answer the question within the thread title, it depends on one's point of view. Compared to other Mac forums, I think this is somewhere in the high range. Compared to the rest of the popular forums, I think MacRumors may link to somewhere in the middle. I'm basing this on the post contributions at the Videogames forums and the Static-X Band forums. Each has members with over 10000 posts, lots of members with some contribution, and a "community" forum, but the Videogames forums are MUCH more general, as supposed to the Static forums. Generally, if you look at all the growing forums, and how long those forums (say, two to three years old) have expanded, they will continue to grow and become more recognized. Right now, members with 10000 posts may seem like a lot. In five years from now, many of the already popular forums on the net will have members with 20000, 30000, maybe even 40000 posts; however, it also depends on the world outside the forums, in terms of what is hot and what is not.

[Sun Baked]

Probably eliminating all the quick and easy methods for checking post count (running post contest) would be best, while leaving the Avatar timing unchanged.

---

samdweck was more annoying than anything else, a lot of the trolls his age that have been coming through have definitely made themselves known entirely on their content of their posts (usually becoming a guest within their first 20 posts) - samdweck was entirely an unskilled edition of fluffy SPAM.

---

Dropping the Romper Room section off the front page may change how the forum is viewed by front page visitors, the *Official Poop Thread* probably still keeps quite a few people wondering. ;)

[bousozoku]

Originally posted by edvniow


Are you aware that he's a writer for AmbitiousLemon.com now?!?http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/veronica/eek21.gif

I wasn't aware of that. It makes me skeptical of the content of that site now. Is it all useless pocket lint?

[vniow]

No, he's actually a decent writer, he just posts way too goddamn much.

At AL's new forums, he posts something like 50 a day, it's ridiculous, I'm a mod there and I've deleted about ten so far with more to follow.

[Doctor Q]

Reading back through this thread, I haven't seen a good counterargument to the suggestion that MacRumors change the rules so you get an avatar for making a donation. When I suggested this before, springscansing said that it would "antagonize new members", but I don't see why. Anyone would still be able to lurk or post, and anyone desperate for an avatar could get one.

A simple pay-for-favors system seems more likely to be considered fair than any system for rating members or posts. If I want to drink out of a MacRumors mug, I'm not surprised that I have to pay for it. Why shouldn't I have to pay if I want to show off my artwork on the site? People who already have an avatar earned it under the old rules. The rules can change and still be fair.

If avatars were for sale from now on, the incentive would be to do something we want to encourage (support arn) instead of something we want to discourage (post only for the sake of posting). Doesn't this solve the problem? Is there a downside that makes other suggested solutions better? Maybe I'm too new around here to see the consequences, but I'd like to know.

[Rower_CPU]

Originally posted by edvniow
No, he's actually a decent writer, he just posts way too goddamn much.

At AL's new forums, he posts something like 50 a day, it's ridiculous, I'm a mod there and I've deleted about ten so far with more to follow.

I checked and didn't see his name anywhere...is he using a different pseudonym?

[edit - Nevermind, found it: Jaguar]

[vniow]

Check this (http://www.ambitiouslemon.com/funmac/showthread.php?s=&threadid=65) out.

Edit: blah, never mind

[Sun Baked]

Originally posted by edvniow
Check this (http://www.ambitiouslemon.com/funmac/showthread.php?s=&threadid=65) out.

Edit: blah, never mind
:confused:

edit - OK, I looked around and saw a lot of "Jaguar" listed. At 50 posts per day, he'd still drive people nuts - at least here.

[vniow]

By the time I replied Rower already found it. Sorry for the confusion. Bah.

[Durandal7]

Originally posted by edvniow

At AL's new forums, he posts something like 50 a day, it's ridiculous, I'm a mod there and I've deleted about ten so far with more to follow.
You're a mod there? It seems that just about all of us are a mod somewhere or another.

As for samdweck, he's going to drive everyone insane over there soon.

[vniow]

Originally posted by Durandal7

As for samdweck, he's going to drive everyone insane over there soon.


Too late.http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/veronica/damn.gif

I'm trying not to let it bother me though, I don't want to give him the power.

He keeps IM'ing me too, I took it out of my profile now and I'm on invisible mode there too.

He's a nice guy but he has waaaaaay too much energy.
It's not all his fault though, but for reasons that I'd rather not say.

[chmorley]

Originally posted by Doctor Q
Reading back through this thread, I haven't seen a good counterargument to the suggestion that MacRumors change the rules so you get an avatar for making a donation. When I suggested this before, springscansing said that it would "antagonize new members", but I don't see why. Anyone would still be able to lurk or post, and anyone desperate for an avatar could get one....When I suggested alternative ways to get avatars, making a contribution to Macrumors was one of my favorite two (with minimal post count + waiting period being the other). I can't imagine how it would "antagonize" new members, since they could get one right away. The only negative I can think of is that some might think it too "blatantly capitalistic." Last time I checked, though, we lived in a capitalist country.

Any change till be met by criticism. People will complain for 2 weeks (at most), and then be over it.

I think it's a fine idea. Of course, having suggested it, I'm biased.

Chris

[rainman::|:|]

I'll concur with some-- for one, i don't read threads over 40 posts (i read the first page of this thread, and except for tangents, it's as good as reading the whole thing)... I don't like the late-night fastfire conversations that go on that should be moved to instant messages... and it's weird not knowing half the posters, some of them i think must be new but have huge postcounts. i don't post nearly as much because everything just moves on without me all of the time.

It's great for Arn that this site caught on like wildfire. And kudos to him for making it work. but for me, a tighter-knit community was better.

BTW, is there any way to know how many posts *i* have since counts have been disabled? i'm not far from a 'tar, not that i care much (i'll post on my own damn time, thank you very much) but i should know when to start work on it :)

pnw

[chmorley]

Originally posted by paulwhannel
...BTW, is there any way to know how many posts *i* have since counts have been disabled?...Check your profile. It still has post count.

Chris

[Mr. Anderson]

Originally posted by edvniow
No, he's actually a decent writer, he just posts way too goddamn much.

At AL's new forums, he posts something like 50 a day, it's ridiculous, I'm a mod there and I've deleted about ten so far with more to follow.

Then that's inefficient and you should tell him to stop spamming - regardless on whether he's a 'writer' or not, you're having to police him as a mod is wasting your time.

[mcrain]

I personally think that there is some benefit to tying the right to have an avatar to post count, but this is also a service being run by an individual. I scan the posts and see a large number of people with avatars, but are not demi-gods. I say if you have 500 posts AND have donated, you would then have the right to have an avatar. 500 posts generally means you've been around enough to know what the stupid mistakes/threads are. However, with the high traffic, and high amount of spamming to get avatars, and the resultant server load, there is no reason why the right to have an avatar can't be tied to posts + donation.

I mean, I don't even have a mac yet, stumbled onto this site, and because I liked it and wanted to support it, I donated. Many of the people out there with avatars should dig into their lint infested pockets and buy a mug.

[Mr. Anderson]

I agree that a lot more people who are active don't have many reasons not to donate to the site. But making avatars a purchasable item might be a bit too much. Now as a demi-god, you basically have you're own forum, for what it is, and the warm, fuzzy feeling that you're doing something to help a good site.

[medea]

Originally posted by edvniow



Too late.http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/veronica/damn.gif

I'm trying not to let it bother me though, I don't want to give him the power.

He keeps IM'ing me too, I took it out of my profile now and I'm on invisible mode there too.

He's a nice guy but he has waaaaaay too much energy.
It's not all his fault though, but for reasons that I'd rather not say.


Personally I'm a little sick of going to the funmac forum and seeing that all (and I mean all) of the threads end with the name Jaguar, he will post one thing, then instead of editing the post to change something he adds more posts. And he pm'd me once asking not to ask or say anything about him having an avatar already, and then he pm'd me again be apparently cancelled it before I got to read it. He's posts are the only thing on that forum right now and unless it gets some new members and some content flowing I think it's gonna go down the drain real quick.

[GeeYouEye]

I'll be dissenting opinion here, if no one minds. :)

While there are several newbies who just spam just for post count, I seriously doubt that all, or even many of them have the same posts per day that some of our more senior members do. Take edvniow (no offense intended, just using you as an example), for example: nearly 15 posts per day, and registered only since August! While samdweck may have approached that, I've seen few others doing the same thing. I mean, I've been here since December 2001, posting very regularly, to the tune of just over 1 post per day. And guess what? I still don't have an avatar. Even after I was provided an avatar (thanks edvniow!) for use once I get 500 posts, it'll probably still be a while before I hit that number. I did not go spamming around. I did try to increase my post count for a couple hours, but it was following a near-complete hiatus in posting, and the posts were good, useful, non-spam posts!

Unless I have missed something HUGE (and this is, admittedly, a possibility), I just don't see very many people trying to claw their way, or spam their way as it were, to 500 posts. Except for the Community discussion, current events section (more on those later), and the occasional iWalk/iPDA/G5/uber-tech this/that revival thread in the rumors sections, more often than not, the thread starters are one of about 100 people, and the responses one of about 250.

Now, as for those three that I mentioned (CD, CE, and revivals), there are a lot of newbies. And ya know what the best solution for those people is? The solution that worked for gocyrus (if anyone remembers him). Warn them nicely a few times about spamming, wherever they go, and tell the revivalists to use the search feature, and to really think twice about whether the post would really be beneficial to anyone. If they continue to spam, or post revival threads, ban them. Also, one thing that might be helpful is a graduated warning/ban system. For example, one warning activates spam/flood control (at least that's what it's called on most sites) so that the poster can't post more than one reply per minute, or per 5 minutes. 3 warnings within, say, a week, get a poster banned for a day. 5 within a week, gets a one week ban. 10 within a month gets a one month ban. At 15 or more, within a month, the poster is banned for 3 months. 20 gets a 6 month ban. At 50 warnings within a posting year or 52 weeks (ie if a person is banned every week for a week, than they would need 104 weeks to have a year of posting time), the person is permanently banned. While it may seem difficult for someone to get this many warnings/bans through spamming, if you add flaming and trolling to the list of warnable offenses, then it becomes much easier to see how this could function effectively. In this way, only legit posters, with something decent to say, can post, weeding out the spammers, trolls, and flamers.

Of course, to enforce this, we do need more mods, preferably assigned to forums. These moderators would have to have been longtime members, who not only have a lot of (meaningful, well thought-out) posts, but who have also been here a long time, at least 6 months or a year. The other requirement, of course, is that the mods would have to visit MR at least once a day, preferably more, also preferably on weekends as well.

As for the CE/CD forums, I think that part of the problem is that the description of CE is a little vague. One thing that would seriously help, is a change in description to something like "Mac and/or computer and technology related current events" or something similar (I assume that was the original intent? any clarification on that one, arn?), while leaving CD for everything non-tech related.

Last, or almost last, but not least, as for the inactive users, delete, or archive anyone who hasn't posted in a year, or whose posts per day is less than .01, unless they specifically ask not to be deleted. I think it's safe to say that someone who posts less than once per 100 days won't miss their account. Perhaps sending an automated email to all the inactive users would do the trick.

All that said, I disagree with the decision to remove the post count from the posts. I think it's pointless. The posters who really want to spam to 500 will just check their profiles a lot (creating more traffic), and the newbies will check EVERYBODY's profile to see how much they have to get to beat the great Dukestreet, or the legendary jefhatfield. Also this will probably lead to a large resurgence of the "how many posts do I need to be a demi-god???" threads, posted by the few newbies who don't check everyone's profile to deduce it for themselves. All this move does is add server load, and does nothing to stop those who really want to spam.

Let's see, anything else... oh yeah, avatars.
Leave the system as is. If avatars are given to everyone... well, we already know the consequences of that. If no one, then people will just start attaching the 'tar to the bottom of every message. As for any of the alternate plans, especially the ones where only contributers can have them, they cheat some of us, I think. Take jefhatfield. He is not a contributer, though one of his other usernames is/was, IIRC. Are you really going to deny HIM one? Or what about the people who can't contribute, such as those without, or too young to have a credit card, or who just don't have enough extra cash to pay for a mug. And then there's those of us like me, who have played it strait and fair, without spamming, with the added hope of eventually getting an avatar, after about 500 posts. While it wouldn't cause me to leave MacRumors, it would be a big disappointment, since I fit two of the inability to contribute reasons; too young, and not enough money (dang car insurance... but I digress). So, for anyone who didn't read that long, and slightly confusing paragraph, here's a summary: keep the 'tar system as it is.

Ok, I'm done for now.

PS: my apologies for the length of the post. It was only supposed to a paragraph or two. :)

[Sun Baked]

GeeYouEye

samdweck spammed his way to around 260 posts in three days, this is after he had been warned once with guest status. Most all but one of his original spree has been deleted.

So approaching 85 posts per day for three days with zero skill and rather little true content, he plain just annoyed people on his quest for attention and an avatar.

If he had continued with a 50 post per day spree, MANY people would turned troll and flamed his butt, while some may have fled in horror.

He was an extreme version, of the avatar questor ...

I have no ill feelings towards him - do feel sorry for him - but, the number of posts and immediate responses he's seeking are better left to chat rooms and IMs.

And he is an EXTREME case.

---

Taking away the post number game will reduce the number of those that do play it, or care about it. Which is why I said eliminate all occurences of post count - even in a person's profile.

Keep the avatar system the same, but make people wonder when they'll change from Macrumors Regular to Macrumors 6502 and get an avatar.

[mc68k]

IMO, there's no real point to having post count displayed under the member name. the negatives far outweigh any advantages

i think the quality of posts has gone down overall in most forum areas. post count may have contributed to some of this, but i think it's just lack of self-control (posting when you shouldn't). i think it's inevitable in any burgeoning community, whether online or not.

to get a good idea of quality posts, go to distributed computing or apple collectors. the topics are much more focused, which causes people with no intent of adding to the topic, to get shot down, or not even visit (for fear of exposing thier stupidity).

but, whatever. :) it's still great for rumors and various other indulgences. i just ignore people here a lot more.

[vniow]

Wow, that's a long post, GeeYouEye.http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/veronica/eek21.gif


You are right in the fact that some newbies that spam just for the sake of spamming don't nearly have the posts per day as some senioe members, but keep in mind that it didn't start out that way.

My 15 posts a day isn't a very accurate tracking of my posts in my opinion, there are some days when I post about 30 times a day and there are are some days when I post none.
And remember that it didn't start out this way, even if I've gotton more than 1400 posts since July, it took some work and I kept my useless posts down to a minumum and I also edited some double posts to 'delete me' cuz I didn't mean to post twice.

People like samdwek couldn't stop posting and that's their problem and why they were banned.

Others like hitman and krossfuter posted a lot in their early days, but they eventually slowed way down and have become well-known and respected members of the community.
Somehow I doubt that even if samdwek stuck around long enough to get an avatar, he would have been well recieved by the community.

Notice that the people who post the most spend a lot more time in the community section than they do in the rest of the forums.

And this is where I differ from a lot of people here.
I like it when threads get over 40 posts.
I don't mind if it gets off-topic as long as it's here and not in a Mac-specific section.
I don't mind those long instant-messaging threads, in fact, that's how I've gotton to know a lot of members here.

Personally, I don't come for the Mac stuff (since I don't have one) I come for the community.

Anywayz, that's my side of things.http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/veronica/smiley.gif

[al256]

Originally posted by chmorley
When I suggested alternative ways to get avatars, making a contribution to Macrumors was one of my favorite two (with minimal post count + waiting period being the other)

I completely agree with the idea of a waiting period I say you have to wait AT LEAST 6 months before you can have an avatar no matter how many posts you have. I hate avatars, they suck up bandwidth and they look so stupid. But if you want an avatar you can have it as long as your "old enough" to have it. I think there should be a ratio of time to posts. I think if you've been here for 3 years and have posted 100+ posts you deserve an avatar. 2 and 1/2 years 150 posts+. 2 years 200 posts+. 1 and a 1/2 years 250+ posts. 1 year 300 posts. 1/2 year 400 posts. Anything less than 6 months you don't deserve an avatar. I sincerely hope you read this Arn.

On a side note: You have to donate at least 20 dollars before your recognized as a 'demi-god'. So as a hypothetical argument I could say I donated 5 dollars but no one would ever know that I donated that money. So they'd call me a cheap-skate and would say I'm not contributing to the site when I had. MAYBE if we have something like PBS where they have different levels of contributors, you know.

[Durandal7]

Originally posted by al256
I think if you've been here for 3 years and have posted 100+ posts you deserve an avatar. 2 and 1/2 years 150 posts+. 2 years 200 posts+. 1 and a 1/2 years 250+ posts. 1 year 300 posts. 1/2 year 400 posts. Anything less than 6 months you don't deserve an avatar. I sincerely hope you read this Arn.

I like that idea. The only problem may be that vBulliten is incapable of using that many conditions. If the board can handle it though, it seems the most reasonable.

[Mr. Anderson]

I was just thinking we may be trying to fix something that really isn't broke. There have been a few splinter forums spinning off recently - and that's fine, if you don't like what's going on at MacRumors and think you can do better, go for it.

But things have been working out pretty well in general and the news, rumors, help and community are very active and the site in general is a great place. So it doesn't offer you everything, or you'd like to see some changes, that's fine too. However, you can't please everyone and by trying to do so might end up hurting MacRumors in the long run.

D

[zed]

Originally posted by edvniow
Wow, that's a long post, GeeYouEye.http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/veronica/eek21.gif

Notice that the people who post the most spend a lot more time in the community section than they do in the rest of the forums.

And this is where I differ from a lot of people here.
I like it when threads get over 40 posts.
I don't mind if it gets off-topic as long as it's here and not in a Mac-specific section.
I don't mind those long instant-messaging threads, in fact, that's how I've gotton to know a lot of members here.

Anywayz, that's my side of things.http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/veronica/smiley.gif

im with you there. Those late night posts are sometimes lots of fun :D

My question is do we still get to have an avatar after 500 posts or has that changed also?

I have been around here for a while, i just do not post often..... i would still like to one day have an avatar though. i guess it is just the designer in me, but i look forward to putting up an image that i think reflects my personality...

is there no way that people can link to pictures that reside on different websites for the avatar? I know that I, as well as many others here im sure, could easily put an avatar image on my web server....

anyway... just an idea.

[al256]

Originally posted by Durandal7

I like that idea. The only problem may be that vBulliten is incapable of using that many conditions. If the board can handle it though, it seems the most reasonable.

Thank you for your support. I had a feeling that this was beyond the server's capabilities but I truly believe this is the best answer.

[scem0]

I agree with Edvniow. I really don't mind spam too much. If you really don't like it, then ignore it. I like the 'live' conversations - and I definitely agree that they help you get to know someone. I think that the elimination of post counts won't change the nature of the postings, but I really don't care. I never had my post count in mind when I started posting. I stick to the Community disscusion, because it is a lot more fun to post on. It has more life in it. And most of the threads in the other sections tend to have useless bickering. One thing that I definitely don't like is useless bickering. I don't mind open-minded arguments (see some of the posts in my 'me being mad at church/christianity' thread - that thread had a lot of open-minded, intelligent arguments, as well as close-minded immature comments) but I do mind people saying something bad about me, something I like, or anything else without explaining why. If anyone has ever been to a forum, and joined a Mac vs PC thread, and posted why you think macs are better, and then someone just says 'No, you're wrong' without explaining, then you will know what I mean. There will always be posts like that, and there will always be spamming. It is like deaths due to guns - you will never get rid of 'em. :o

[King Cobra]

>It is like deaths due to guns - you will never get rid of 'em. :o

"Maturity can only enter a person by personal experience. Once that person is told how the real world works, it is up to him to earn the other half. If a person loses maturity, maturity never entered that person, and he has committed an even bigger crime, which will shield him from all maturity."

[I made that up.] What I mean is simply this:
Maturity is a stable feeling one gets when he does not get what he wants, and will always stay with you, much like experience. Maturity, however, is something you use when you need it, not after you need it. A person can describe how the real world works for a year, and the person may remember it all, but he still must be involved in the real world in order to develop and earn mature behavior.

The last sentence of the quote relates to the issue that has been discussed with people, such as samdweck, and especially gocyrus. If a person suddenly acts mature and does things to satisfy others, then goes back to his old, immature behavior, then the person never gained anything, except in pretend. That feeling a person gets is delusion, and satisfies only himself. Almost never will you achieve maturity or experience by getting what you want, and the "pretend maturity" begins to control the emotions of a person. Anything in pretend can be removed, and delusional maturity can be removed by barring/banning him from his favorite areas/things.


Echoing your post, scem (by the way, nice quality post :D)

>It is like deaths due to guns - you will never get rid of 'em. :o

Maybe. But not all guns are in the hands of immature teenagers, unlike almost 100% of the rather useless posts here.

Many people here, who post whatever crap they think is cool, funny, whatever, does not have much of a clue on how the world works. I agree, we're bound to encounter immature people on the forums, but I think if they knew and understood how the real world works, we wouldn't have to deal with people like them. Luckily, it seems to be easier to tell/show someone making these comments how the real world works and how their current actions will limit their street IQ and common sense, than to tell someone to put down the gun, nice and slowly. :)

The world we created on MacRumors does not need to be changed, by way of post count, spam, how or when to get an avatar, etc. Once someone becomes a part of this world he has to recognize how life works, at least here on the forums. In fact, a world of anything should never change to satisfy any one person, especially in a world of a few thousand, or 6 billion. It's part of life.

That's all there is to it. Just tell them how to satisfy the rest of the world, and make sure he sticks to it. If he doesn't, ban him. The world does not need to change for him, but he needs to change for the world.

[Sun Baked]

Giving a people computers, net access, and a forum in which to speak, allows them to be able to speak their minds...

... it's just that sometimes these minds are rather small, or lack that certain spark that proves these minds are still conscious.

[scem0]

Originally posted by Sun Baked
Giving a people computers, net access, and a forum in which to speak, allows them to be able to speak their minds...

... it's just that sometimes these minds are rather small, or lack that certain spark that proves these minds are still conscious.

That can be true ;D.... It is just many times, people don't speak their minds. It is kind of like at school, when the geek is getting bullied - not many people will speak up, even though they know it is wrong. I mean, that won't really translate into macrumors very well, but even if y'all don't have a clue about what I am talking about, I do. Hehe, sorry that is just my small brain speaking... :D

[Cappy]

Originally posted by dukestreet
I was just thinking we may be trying to fix something that really isn't broke. There have been a few splinter forums spinning off recently - and that's fine, if you don't like what's going on at MacRumors and think you can do better, go for it.

But things have been working out pretty well in general and the news, rumors, help and community are very active and the site in general is a great place. So it doesn't offer you everything, or you'd like to see some changes, that's fine too. However, you can't please everyone and by trying to do so might end up hurting MacRumors in the long run.

D

I'd agree with this for the most part. There's always going to be a certain signal to noise ratio and this board is taken care of very well for the type of traffic it receives. I still think an added mod or two wouldn't be a bad idea. I'm not really saying it's needed right now but it's good to have a system in place to deal with growth before the growth gets out of hand.

As for the avatar thing I'm sure it's appreciated by Arn and company, the feedback they've received on this, but lets not get too critical. It could be that I don't read in the areas on here that this is happening in but I really haven't seen much of an issue in the grand scheme of things on avatar issues. If it's a controversial issue, dump them. I certainly don't see that it is though.

The site really does flow well overall and I think that's due to good participation by those running the site and not playing "god" like so many on other sites might. Removing the post count was a good move that we probably won't ever really know the true impact of doing so but it just makes sense.

To wrap up this long post....keep up the good work.

[Mr. Anderson]

Originally posted by Cappy
As for the avatar thing I'm sure it's appreciated by Arn and company, the feedback they've received on this, but lets not get too critical. It could be that I don't read in the areas on here that this is happening in but I really haven't seen much of an issue in the grand scheme of things on avatar issues. If it's a controversial issue, dump them. I certainly don't see that it is though.

Well, one thing that I actually got started that I hope becomes a regular event is the Avatar Contest. We'll be having the second one in December and I imagine it will be even more popular than the last time, especially since there are almost twice as many members with over 500 post counts.

But a special bit is that anyone can enter, and even if someone with 1 post submits a winning tar, they are allowed to use it - arn makes the exception. And the competition is stiff, with over 80 entries last time, we saw a great range of artwork, still and animated. The next contest should be great.

D

[eyelikeart]

Well I haven't been around much lately mainly because things got to be pretty hectic around work. There's work & the fact that I need to keep myself doing things at night to retain my own sanity. :eek:

I do think that the site has grown enormously since last year. There have been a few cases of people leaving or even taking a hiatus for a few days/week (including myself). Personally, as long as u are gaining supports/contributors to the site, I think u should be safe in that aspect. Keeping the regulars happy is another...although I think u usually come through for all of us arn...

[mmmdreg]

Originally posted by edvniow
No, he's actually a decent writer, he just posts way too goddamn much.

At AL's new forums, he posts something like 50 a day, it's ridiculous, I'm a mod there and I've deleted about ten so far with more to follow.
Me being a mod as well, he does get a little irritating but if he can't help it, it's too bad...I think the most annoying thing about his posts are not the content but rather his tone...I don't know, the way he speaks is just annoying...but you could say he's got enthusiasm

[Sun Baked]

Originally posted by mmmdreg

Me being a mod as well, he does get a little irritating but if he can't help it, it's too bad...I think the most annoying thing about his posts are not the content but rather his tone...I don't know, the way he speaks is just annoying...but you could say he's got enthusiasm

The possibilities that exist with DweckTech Forums (http://www.dwecktech.com/mboard/index.php?sid=cd79f38550c52e89fc898145cb6e977a) are quite limitless.

[Mr. Anderson]

When did he set that up? And he's got 4 members, including himself and 2 of them are mods, ha!

I find it amazing that so many forums are being spun off lately. I can't wait to see what things look like in a year at some of these places.

D

[j763]

Just judging by how often we see the "Server Busy" message, it sure is too popular. Aside from that minor annoyance, MR just seems to be getting far too crowded. It used to be a really tight and friendly community, where now it seems to be all about user status, post count and avatars. Before, it was great when we could discuss things that Apple may actually do and the implications of them, whereas now, it's just about rampant speculation (iTablet, iPhone, eBook etc.).

That said, the news on MR's front page is great, but I rarely visit the forums any more.

For those of you who feel the same way, you may wish to visit FunMac.com (http://www.funmac.com) by AmbitiousLemon.com (http://www.ambitiouslemon.com). It's a friendly little community, built by ex and current MR users who want an alternative from the mainstream.

I'm one of the FunMac.com administrators, but I still visit MR regularly for the great news that's simply unmatched on the Macweb.

[arn]

Originally posted by j763


It's a friendly little community, built by ex and current MR users who want an alternative from the mainstream.


I find it very funny that MacRumors is refered to as "mainstream" :)

arn

[j763]

Originally posted by arn


I find it very funny that MacRumors is refered to as "mainstream" :)

arn

hahaha... well, it's over 12,000 compared with 70. :)

[mac15]

I really think macrumors is mainstream, If this isn't mainstream, then what is.