Why does StarTrek need those super-human races

[MacJagger]

This a point which always annoyed me in ST since NG.
During NG there was something like a cold war going on the federation had some trouble with the romulans the cardassians but not a real war, so they needed a big really evil enemy and some day Q came up with the borg and they seemed so strong and invincible but Jean-Luc and his crew had their first victories the borg were not enough anymore.
That´s why in DS9 they pulled the dominion out of the cylinder they defeated them and a little later in voyger finally they got species 8472.
What do you think of that isn´t that just too much??
This is my first thread I hope a lot of people will post in here.
P.S. I´m german please tell me if I´m making mistakes in your in language

[dotcomlarry]

Who's to say that, if the galaxy does have other intelligent life, there won't be very advanced races? ST has very unadvanced races, so they have a wide mix of races. You also have to remember that ST is, well, fiction, and thus they can do really whatever they want.

[MacJagger]

I know that it is not reality but I think it is a quite boring scheme to raise attention

[Mr. Anderson]

Its all done in the name of 'Drama' - you need to have a vehicle that makes the show interesting. And its a good way to get emotional about a show - hate the bad guys, cheer the good guys when they win.

The problem with it though, is that it worked in one show, so all of them used it. That's why I never really watched the latest in the series, Enterprise. It was all the same, just a different ship and cast, with the plot somewhat different, but still following the old guidelines.

They need to shelve the ST universe for a decade or so, and then start it up again - but do something different, its become too blah for me, and too predictable.

D

[diorio]

It just makes it seem more advanced of a show, I guess. ST has a wide mix of races, with some being almost unintelligent and some being very advanced. I guess this is just a way to try to tell their viewers that these advanced races could be roaming the universe somewhere, and we might someday have to deal with them.

ND

[sparkleytone]

its really just an appeal to the human sense of superiority. we feel that no matter what, we will end up being the most powerful etc. of all races of beings in the universe. i mean, comeon, look at the premise of the show.

nothing to fulfill that need to feel proud and superior than watching humans somehow defeat a superrace of beings, who are inevitably evil.

[MacJagger]

Doing that in the name of Drama doesn´t make those shows dramatic, rather kind of boring.
Those multiple conflicts are just too much, I prefer StarWars a conflict between two Systems of a different Idealism, not between races.
That war between races reminds me at racism and every super-race has something Nazi-like.
I think this startrek idea of wekilltheoneswhicharestrongerthanusinonehour
is very bad and stinks to hell

[Mr. Anderson]

I never said it made it any better. I agree with you that its too much. And like I said, they need to take a break from the series and come back with something new if fans really need to have a ST show.

D

[bousozoku]

I find it difficult to believe that the United Federation of Planets would be headquartered on Earth, in the U.S.A. After all, we were discovered to be interesting, seemingly, as we took our first warp steps into space.

You'd think that, perhaps, the Vulcans would have gathered the group and hosted the headquarters on their planet. Maybe it was just the cost of air conditioning or the smell or the need to stock meat... :D

[Spock]

Originally posted by bousozoku
I find it difficult to believe that the United Federation of Planets would be headquartered on Earth, in the U.S.A. After all, we were discovered to be interesting, seemingly, as we took our first warp steps into space.

You'd think that, perhaps, the Vulcans would have gathered the group and hosted the headquarters on their planet. Maybe it was just the cost of air conditioning or the smell or the need to stock meat... :D

Earth Started the UFP, Vulcan is just a Member if you have seen the movies you would Know the President of The UFP is human.

[mc68k]

I find it boring that the majority of ST characters are humanoid.

At least SW has a better ratio of humanoid/non-humanoid. And it doesn't involve Earth.

[Santiago]

The reason most aliens are humanoid is because they are played by humans with silly putty on their face. Really alien-looking aliens cost a lot. However, whoever does these shows seems to think that putting a ridge on your nose makes you all freaky and alien, and that's enough. Given that making a good aliens is difficult, why not focus on actually creating alien cultures, something that most science fiction fails miserably at. Even with the ridges, they act like humans. They need to act really weird.

One possible approach is to create a galaxy filled with just humans, but from very different cultures. Throw in some genetic engineering to add whatever biological features you want (to a conveniently human-like base model), and then come up with truly unusual systems of beliefs and values. This is the approach Asimov took in the Foundation series, I think it ultimately creates something far more believable.

[MacJagger]

There was once explained why they all looked the same. I think they said that there was once a big
culture which deployed the same genetic information on several planets and the way they look now is reasoned by there evolution.

From what we know a race which spends a lot of time in space would look totally different but Gene Roddenberry was in a different opinion

[diorio]

Originally posted by mc68k
I find it boring that the majority of ST characters are humanoid.

At least SW has a better ratio of humanoid/non-humanoid. And it doesn't involve Earth.

The part where is doesn't involve earth makes it seem harder to grasp, less likely to happen. The fact the ST is based on Earth makes it seem more realistic to viewers.

[Mr. Anderson]

Originally posted by MacJagger

From what we know a race which spends a lot of time in space would look totally different but Gene Roddenberry was in a different opinion

Provided that you don't have gravity. The first people born and raized on the moon and Mars will be different as well, no way of determining what the effects will be like totally. But with the lower gravity, I'd imagine that no one not native to earth would be able to land on the planet.

D

[vniow]

Originally posted by MacJagger
There was once explained why they all looked the same. I think they said that there was once a big
culture which deployed the same genetic information on several planets and the way they look now is reasoned by there evolution.

From what we know a race which spends a lot of time in space would look totally different but Gene Roddenberry was in a different opinion


I remember that one.

It was an explanation to why they couldn't afford all the makeup to make more elaborate species.http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/veronica/winky.gif

Gotta luv network television.

[Mr. Anderson]

For the original series they took a ton of short cuts - Warp Speed, Transporters, Humans with different noses, ears and skin colors to create alien species. The Romulans hardly looked alien at all. And then there were the occasional alien monster, guy in a godzilla like suit, or tribbles or other plastic forms you could wrestle with and make it look like it was alive by shaking it.

So this is the legacy the new shows had to deal with - and I think they did a pretty good job of it. So what if the SW universe has more diverse forms, its all fantasy anyway, just enjoy it.

D

[vniow]

Originally posted by dukestreet
So what if the SW universe has more diverse forms, its all fantasy anyway, just enjoy it.

D


AMEN, brother dukestreet!

If we overanalyze sci-fi, then all the fun is taken out of it.

Save it until after you've watched it a hundred times over.http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/veronica/grinning.gif

[mrpepsi]

...but I really enjoy Babylon 5 much more than trek.

It always annoys me that at the end of the episode the ship is always fixed the world is always saved. Each episode really stands on it's own. And that's ok I guess, but for me B5 was just deeper.

It didn't suffer from the "new superbadguy of the season" disease that trek often did and still does. It may take a few episodes to hook you, but B5 is definately worth a watch if you annoyed with the seemingly haphazard storylines of trek. B5 is like a 5 year long book, which may annoy some and intrigue others.

Just my 2 cents...

[ehmyerson]

Let's see...
Superaliens for drama. I agree.
Everyone looks alike because of ancient race seeding the universe as a narcissistic monument. I agree.
StarWars is about philosophical conflict. I agree.
Babylon 5 is better. I would say it's different and about the same through the finale with Sinclair going into the past and becoming the big alien Kahuna. Then the storyline goes downhill for the next iterations of the series.
The President of the Federation was human maybe once and then it was a series of aliens including the one with long white hair and bushy eyebrows who looked like a kind of lion man.

My question is why the Federation always has lousy death rays and shielding for its ships. And why its weapons are always kind of flimsy compared to its foes. I wonder why the Federation never has the muscle its opponents exhibit. The 'aliens' always are faster, stronger, tougher and I just don't like it. I think the conflict should be based on more than the moral highground... I'd like some kickass technology.

[diorio]

Originally posted by mrpepsi
...but I really enjoy Babylon 5 much more than trek.

It always annoys me that at the end of the episode the ship is always fixed the world is always saved. Each episode really stands on it's own. And that's ok I guess, but for me B5 was just deeper.

It didn't suffer from the "new superbadguy of the season" disease that trek often did and still does. It may take a few episodes to hook you, but B5 is definately worth a watch if you annoyed with the seemingly haphazard storylines of trek. B5 is like a 5 year long book, which may annoy some and intrigue others.

Just my 2 cents...

I haven't really seen B5, so I don't know which is better. But I still like ST a lot. STNG didn't really have a new badguy of the season, they encountered many as they travelled through space however. I always found STNG to be excellent, and never really confusing. I guess if it were like a 7 year long book that would be okay, but then if you missed an episode you would be screwed. Enterprise in kind of in this format and seems to me to be a very good show.

[mrpepsi]

I do have to admit Enterprise it a good balance of a long deeper plot without being lost after missing an episode. That was a problem with B5 if you missed an episode, sombody really important did something critical to the plot.

Crusade seemed promising though the music was insanely goofy and the acting was somewhat poor, they could have made something really great out of it...

STNG is my favorite sci-fi, with B5 a very close second. ;-)

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by MacJagger
This a point which always annoyed me in ST since NG.
During NG there was something like a cold war going on the federation had some trouble with the romulans the cardassians but not a real war, so they needed a big really evil enemy and some day Q came up with the borg and they seemed so strong and invincible but Jean-Luc and his crew had their first victories the borg were not enough anymore.
That´s why in DS9 they pulled the dominion out of the cylinder they defeated them and a little later in voyger finally they got species 8472.
What do you think of that isn´t that just too much??
This is my first thread I hope a lot of people will post in here.
P.S. I´m german please tell me if I´m making mistakes in your in language

i know for the old series, kirk needed alien chicks to hit on at least every third show

high sex drive, i guess;)

[LethalWolfe]

not to oversimplify... but you need conflict. You can't tell a story where everyone gets along 'cause it would be boring as heck and suck.

Personally, I don't think SW is any more or less "racist" (for lack of a better term) than ST. Heck, didn't ST have the first inter-racial kiss on TV? Both "worlds" center around humans, and have aliens tossed in here and there to give it a universal appeal (pun intended). But in ST they usually introduce entire races/speices of aliens where in SW it's usually individual aliens.

DS9, IMO, is the best ST series/spin-off and one of the best dramas ever on TV. It was definetly the "darkest" ST. And the four season story arc w/the Domion was awesome.


Lethal