Nintendo speculation

[Sol]

No links here. I just want to share a few comments about Nintendo.

First of all, I wish there were more DS games. I can understand a slim library at launch but it has been a few months now and the releases have been sparse. Waiting for the killer apps like Metroid Hunters, Nintendogs and Mario Kart DS feels like an eternity.

Speaking of Mario Kart DS, how will it get online? I hope we will not have to hang around EB stores or something like that. Ideally the Nintendo DS will connect to its servers through Airport on my Mac. I read something about a USB adaptor so fingers crossed that Nintendo will support OS X.

GBA compatibility on the DS feels like a mistake. Don't get me wrong, the screens of the DS are much sharper, brighter and colourful than the GBA SP and I am enjoying re-playing older games just to see them at their best. I think it was a mistake to make the DS backwards compatible for two reasons. First, the DS is supposed to be the third line of Nintendo's consoles, not GBA 2. If Nintendo really wanted to make that point they would not include this compatibility. They probably realised how thin the DS games library would be in the months following the launch so they added this feature as a temporary solution. Second, the DS is bulky enough as it is so taking away all the GBA components would make it slimmer. I suspect that at some point a re-designed DS will come out that excludes the GBA components, just like GB compatibility was taken out of the GameBoy Micro.

Speaking of the Micro, when will it be released? The screen is supposed to be better than the DS's, the price will be low and it would easily fit into my pants' pockets. I hope it comes out soon.

There is supposed to be a GBA 2 in the future and I look forward to GC-class graphics on that. It should feature a hard drive so that games, video and audio files can be stored on it. Think an iPod for games.

I am still wondering what the Revolution's controller will be. My best guess is that it will be a touch-pad or a track-ball with force feedback. For playing the older games we will need GC controllers; there are four such ports on the Revolution prototype.

Nintendo may be waiting for Microsoft and SONY hype to calm down before revealing their products. They know that their consoles are going to be compared and they would want to look the best from this comparison.

The Revolution could be great but I think portable games will be the most innovative for the next ten years. Once getting online becomes accessible to most DS and PSP players their consoles will start gathering dust. My GC will probably gather dust when I get my hands on the DS games mentioned above.

[neoelectronaut]

No links here. I just want to share a few comments about Nintendo.

First of all, I wish there were more DS games. I can understand a slim library at launch but it has been a few months now and the releases have been sparse. Waiting for the killer apps like Metroid Hunters, Nintendogs and Mario Kart DS feels like an eternity.

Speaking of Mario Kart DS, how will it get online? I hope we will not have to hang around EB stores or something like that. Ideally the Nintendo DS will connect to its servers through Airport on my Mac. I read something about a USB adaptor so fingers crossed that Nintendo will support OS X.

GBA compatibility on the DS feels like a mistake. Don't get me wrong, the screens of the DS are much sharper, brighter and colourful than the GBA SP and I am enjoying re-laying older games just to see them at their best. I think it was a mistake to make the DS backwards compatible for two reasons. First, the DS is supposed to be the third line of Nintendo's consoles, not GBA 2. If Nintendo really wanted to make that point they would not include this compatibility. They probably realised how thin the DS games library would be in the months following the launch so they added this feature as a temporary solution. Second, the DS is bulky enough as it is so taking away all the GBA components would make it slimmer. I suspect that at some point a re-designed DS will come out that excludes the GBA components, just like GB compatibility was taken out of the GameBoy Micro.

Speaking of the Micro, when will it be released? The screen is supposed to be better than the DS's, the price will be low and it would easily fit into my pants' pockets. I hope it comes out soon.

There is supposed to be a GBA 2 in the future and I look forward to GC-class graphics on that. It should feature a hard drive so that games, video and audio files can be stored on it. Think an iPod for games.

I am still wondering what the Revolution's controller will be. My best guess is that it will be a touch-pad or a track-ball with force feedback. For playing the older games we will need GC controllers; there are four such ports on the Revolution prototype.

Nintendo may be waiting for Microsoft and SONY hype to calm down before revealing their products. They know that their consoles are going to be compared and they would want to look the best from this comparison.

The Revolution could be great but I think portable games will be the most innovative for the next ten years. Once getting online becomes accessible to most DS and PSP players their consoles will start gathering dust. My GC will probably gather dust when I get my hands on the DS games mentioned above.

One must remember that the GBA slot on the DS is not only for backwards compatibility. It's also for accessory use. For example, if Nintendo decided to released a new "Gameboy Camera", it'd use the GBA slot.

[DavidLeblond]

One must remember that the GBA slot on the DS is not only for backwards compatibility. It's also for accessory use. For example, if Nintendo decided to released a new "Gameboy Camera", it'd use the GBA slot.

Except the "Gameboy Camera" would suggest the DS is another "Gameboy" ;)

[FightTheFuture]

My GC will probably gather dust when I get my hands on the DS games mentioned above.
and then your DS will be gathering dust when twilight princess is released in november. its summer and there is a drought in good games right now. patience is the only thing that keeps the hardcore gamer from getting fired from their job. i would suggest picking up some bargain bin games that you never played for the cube just to expand your gaming experience.

now the revolution - i think nintendo might be on to something big. and i think they have something up their sleeves that'll suprise every gamer out there. the key for ninty is to wait for just the right time to announce what it will be. has the game developers conference occured yet?

[7on]

Also the GBA processor in the DS is used for 2D rendering and I/O (touch screen, sound, mic). They don't offer GBC compatibility because of room. The DS is also touted as a dual processor handheld on Nintendo's site. Nintendo's handhelds are bulky because they don't have the fragility of other handhelds (aka PSP). I've heard an account of someone dropping their PSP 3 feet and having the screen shatter.

Online will most likely work like Halo or quake 3. People start servers on their end or you can look for servers. The DS has standard 802.11 in it so it will go ahead and connect to wireless routers when the games come out and use Infrastructure (compared to games only supporting ad-hoc now).

[kuyu]

DS: I'm eagerly anticipating EA's second crack at the handheld. I'm a sports game nut, and madden/tiger woods will keep me entertained for hundreds of hours. I bought mine too early. Anyone who hasn't gotten a DS yet, wait until next fall. The price will fall to $99 and there will be 15-20 AAA titles available by then. Oh yeah if you haven't played Zelda: Minish Cap, go buy it today. One of the top three zelda's of all time on any system.

Revolution: I've been following this one for about 6 months. I frequent Mozlapunk, and read Aries and now King Dea. There are soooo many rumors that it's hard to keep track of them all.

The basics are as follows (not the announced stuff):
- A technique called "cube mapping" should allow the Revo to output PS3 quality graphics with a tenth of the horsepower. Everything is basically pre-rendered, then applied to wire frames a la textures in this generation.
- The controller will include gyro's and squeezeable grips. The gyro's will not be used for aiming in FPS's (not precise enough), but rather used in racing type games. Think about riding the horse in Zelda:Revolution and you'll get the idea. These two innovations will allow you to pick up objects by squeezing and moving the controller.
- Some rumors say that the Revo will output to multiple displays wirelessly. Thus, two people could play the same game in different rooms with only one Revolution. Perhaps emulated games could be played at the same time. Think excitebike in the kitchen and Ocarina of time in the den. Why else are the controllers wifi and not bluetooth or IR?
- The famed Nintendo ON might be real. It's a virtual boy 2 that works as an add-on for the Revo.

My own hypothesis:
- The revolution will be upgradeable. As such, by 2010 the fully upgraded revolution will be the most powerful system from a users perspective. Ninty will win in the gfx department by the end of this new generation.
- The N-game is real, and is the largest viral marketing campaign ever undertaken. Iwata stated that he was playing a game with us in the E3 press conference. Aries and Dea are not breaking NDA's, but rather are following their parts in the N-game to a T.
- Not all of what these "whistle-blowers" are saying is true. Much of it is possible, but Nintendo is using the leaks as a chance to gather feedback from the hardcore gaming audience (the type of geeks who follow this stuff, yours truly included)
- Nintendo knows that they blew this generation. Don't get me wrong, I love the cube. But the sales figures back up my statement. I know they made money, but that's not the point. M$ can continue to lose billions for the next 25 generations if they have to.
- I won't be surprised if the Revo is revealed in August and released this holiday season with 15 first party games at launch. They've stated that it's the easiest system to develop for. I can't understand why it will be last if this is the case. Also, how do they know that it's so easy if they haven't completed one game yet? My bet is that 5-10 first party titles are already gold and ready.

[GFLPraxis]

The basics are as follows (not the announced stuff):
- A technique called "cube mapping" should allow the Revo to output PS3 quality graphics with a tenth of the horsepower. Everything is basically pre-rendered, then applied to wire frames a la textures in this generation.
- The controller will include gyro's and squeezeable grips. The gyro's will not be used for aiming in FPS's (not precise enough), but rather used in racing type games. Think about riding the horse in Zelda:Revolution and you'll get the idea. These two innovations will allow you to pick up objects by squeezing and moving the controller.
- Some rumors say that the Revo will output to multiple displays wirelessly. Thus, two people could play the same game in different rooms with only one Revolution. Perhaps emulated games could be played at the same time. Think excitebike in the kitchen and Ocarina of time in the den. Why else are the controllers wifi and not bluetooth or IR?
- The famed Nintendo ON might be real. It's a virtual boy 2 that works as an add-on for the Revo.


You appear to be mixing up the rumors.

-The cubemapping claim was from Anonymous Sam/Ace on Mozlapunk. An analysis of the patent proves that he completely misunderstands this. Anonymous Sam has been proven a liar several times, as well. In fact, reading the patent there are no wireframes whatsoever involved. In fact, a search through the actual patent itself (http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PG01&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=%2220040222988%22.PGNR.&OS=DN/20040222988&RS=DN/20040222988) quickly reveals that the word wireframe is not even present. In fact, it speaks of using multiple texture maps arranged in a cube for panoramic backgrounds, with a depth map for the illusion of 3D and a fixed camera in the center. It's a glorified Zelda 64 Marketplace with more depth.


-This was stated by Aries and Dea, the only two that have not been effectively disproved so far. Keep an eye on this.
-Output to multiple displays wirelessly is a possibility, but totally rooted in rumors so far. It fits a number of Ninty statement however.
- It's not. I've seen enough proof that it was a fan video.

[Dagless]

My guess is the GBA port is going to be used for more than just GBA games. part of my guess is the name "Port 2" rather than "GBA Port" or whatever. plus, its expandability. a DS game needs something that isnt built into the DS, ie, solar detector, tilt etc. plug in a free GBA sensor pack and BAM. DS goes further. my guess on the GBA port.

my guess is that the DS will be enabled somehow, via a free DS/GBA cart (or even an update app built into the new games) that update the DS's firmware to have a sort of network mode. just like Pokemons Berry Program to fix the time bug in Ruby/Sapphire. with that activated it will be very simple to get the DS talking through a wireless hotspot.

and on the Revolution. i think we're in for an amazing ride. there are 2 routes which Nintendo could have gone down 1) keep quiet about all details but in such a manner that rumours develop and such, rather like Apple or 2) spill everything and have no surprises left.

anyone else surprised at the big N releasing the new Zelda game so close to their next gen launch?

ps. im back!

[neoelectronaut]

Oh, right.

A Rumble Pak for Metroid Prime Pinball has more or less been confirmed by many people...where will it fit in? Slot 2, of course.

[GFLPraxis]

my guess is that the DS will be enabled somehow, via a free DS/GBA cart (or even an update app built into the new games) that update the DS's firmware to have a sort of network mode. just like Pokemons Berry Program to fix the time bug in Ruby/Sapphire. with that activated it will be very simple to get the DS talking through a wireless hotspot.


The DS already has the full 802.11b hardware; a firmware update is not needed. As long as the individual GAMES support TCP/IP, the DS can go online without a problem.

A firmware update would be another way to do it I suppose but it would seem unneccessary. As long as each game has TCP/IP support, no problem.

[Sol]

The DS already has the full 802.11b hardware; a firmware update is not needed. As long as the individual GAMES support TCP/IP, the DS can go online without a problem.

Since wi-fi is built-in and the GBA port can host 1 GB flash cards, someone should port Darwin to it so that we can use the DS for controlling Airport Express. Imagine iTunes on the DS, using the touch-screen for browsing my computer's iTunes library and the top screen for album art and visualiser. Sadly I know almost nothing about programming such a thing.

[Dagless]

A firmware update would be another way to do it I suppose but it would seem unneccessary. As long as each game has TCP/IP support, no problem.

yea i know the games would easily support it, i'm just going on about full online. like a mini web-browser, hi-score browsing for all games, world rankings/local rankings, chat rooms to organize battles n such etc. its entirely possible.

[GFLPraxis]

yea i know the games would easily support it, i'm just going on about full online. like a mini web-browser, hi-score browsing for all games, world rankings/local rankings, chat rooms to organize battles n such etc. its entirely possible.

Ahhh, very possible, yes.

However, I doubt there is enough built in storage to support all that. It looks like it supports only a very basic firmware. Adding all kinds of apps like a chat room and web browser is iffy. It's possible though.

I'd love to see Nintendo release a cartridge that turns the DS into a PDA, however :D

[GFLPraxis]

Since wi-fi is built-in and the GBA port can host 1 GB flash cards, someone should port Darwin to it so that we can use the DS for controlling Airport Express. Imagine iTunes on the DS, using the touch-screen for browsing my computer's iTunes library and the top screen for album art and visualiser. Sadly I know almost nothing about programming such a thing.

Well, they are porting Linux...

[ChrisBrightwell]

First of all, I wish there were more DS games. Have you played what's out there?

I have the following games:
- Metroid Prime: Hunters [First Hunt]
- Kirby's Canvas Curse
- WarioWare: Touched!
- Polarium
- Bomberman
- Meteos
- Puyo Pop Fever
- Super Mario 64 DS

If you've got a friend with DS, half of those games are single-cart multi-player, so you're good to go. :) I've experienced the chaos of multiplayer Meteos myself, and it's seriously insane.

The DS is one of the best multiplayer experiences I've had since Super Bomberman and the multitap.

Speaking of Mario Kart DS, how will it get online? My understanding is that everything is there for using regular 802.11b/g APs to get the DS online, but that none of the games (to date) support it.

If that comes to be untrue, I'd like to see N do an ethernet-based bridge, so I don't have to use my PC (or drivers or anything else) to get the whole thing online.

GBA compatibility on the DS feels like a mistake. This is something that I flat-out disagree with. Being able to cart two games at once is a killer app for me (Zelda in the GBA slot, Meteos in the DS slot ... for now).

Maybe that's just me.

Speaking of the Micro, when will it be released? I must be the only one who doesn't really give a damn about the Micro. It seems like a novelty to me and, from the looks of things, is unplayably small. I have a hard enough time with the SP and my moderately large hands.

There is supposed to be a GBA 2 in the future and I look forward to GC-class graphics on that. It should feature a hard drive so that games, video and audio files can be stored on it. Think an iPod for games.And, while you're at it, say "Hello" to the death of the GB family battery life monarchy.

One thing I absolutely adore about Nintendo is that they're a gaming company. I don't want a console (or handheld, for that matter) that can do EVERYTHING. I just want it to play games. And I want it to do it well. Nintendo does that.

I am still wondering what the Revolution's controller will be.I'm hearing rumors that it'll basically be the DS, which I'm sort of undecided on.

On the one hand, it'll make games like Four Swords (for the GC) much easier to get into (as everyone will have the requisite controller), but it'll send intial costs through the roof.

I wouldn't mind if they keep the GC controller, myself. The Wavebird is one of the best controllers I've ever used.

Nintendo may be waiting for Microsoft and SONY hype to calm down before revealing their products.There's also the fact that console makers are notorious for dropping announced features to meet Christmas deadlines. If Nintendo doesn't announce a feature, they definitely don't have to retract it somewhere down the road.

The Revolution could be great but I think portable games will be the most innovative for the next ten years.I think a mobile market (commuters, students, etc) will drive that more than anything, but I think you're right.

My GC will probably gather dust when I get my hands on the DS games mentioned above.My GC has been collecting dust since I finished Wind Waker a few years ago. We dust it off for rounds of Mario Party or Pac Man vs, but my time for console gamings rapidly approaches zero while school is in session.

That's why my DS stays in my laptop bag ... and always by my side. If I get some time to play, I do. It's just that that time to play is *never* on my couch and within reach of the GC.

[GFLPraxis]

I'm hearing rumors that it'll basically be the DS, which I'm sort of undecided on.

On the one hand, it'll make games like Four Swords (for the GC) much easier to get into (as everyone will have the requisite controller), but it'll send intial costs through the roof.

I wouldn't mind if they keep the GC controller, myself. The Wavebird is one of the best controllers I've ever used.

There's also the fact that console makers are notorious for dropping announced features to meet Christmas deadlines. If Nintendo doesn't announce a feature, they definitely don't have to retract it somewhere down the road.

Nintendo specificly said they have no intention of making a dual-screened console, so don't worry about that. No touchscreens on the Revolution.

All the evidence points towards gyroscopes.

It should be noted that the Revolution has ports for the GameCube controllers and memory cards so no problem using your wavebird for GC games.



My GC has been collecting dust since I finished Wind Waker a few years ago. We dust it off for rounds of Mario Party or Pac Man vs, but my time for console gamings rapidly approaches zero while school is in session.


You never played Metroid Prime 2? :eek:

[Dagless]

Being able to cart two games at once is a killer app for me (Zelda in the GBA slot, Meteos in the DS slot ... for now).

Yea its a big deal for me too, my girlfriend was debating over which she should put in her bags pocket before our flight (for quick access i suppose); DS or GBA SP. in the end she chose DS because then she could play (well, i mean lose ;) ) a Hunters deathmatch and carry a spare GBA game in the same machine too. AND pictochat :)
i also like being able to carry Mario 64 AND Mario Bros 3 around with me in the same machine. thems being 2 of my all time greatest games. rather nice feeling.

as for speculation about the DS and Pokemon (sorry if its a little sidetracked) but has anyone played Pokemon Colosseum? to create all 500 or so pokemon, with full animation and the plethora of moves all for some small RPG and glorified multiplayer battling does make one wonder. especially seeing that the polygon count is low and the textures for the pokemon and effects themselves are relatively simple.
my guess is that Pokemon DS will have the same 3D battle engine. Top screen=battle, bottom screen=moves and camera control.

using the DS as a Rev controller will definitely happen, i reckon. as a main controller? nope. but as mentioned, for games like Zelda: Four Swords and the likes it will be a fantastic feature.

as for Cube gathering dust... i've recently picked up Windwaker again (got to the last dungeon only for my cheapo non-nintendo memory card to wipe) and its incredible, same for F-Zero a month or 2 ago. its only now im really getting into the Gamecube at a whole new level and im completely in love with it. no dust :D

on another sidenote I just ordered Kirby DS after its amazing reception, and depending on how much i get from an arcade game im developing i'll be shelling out for Nanostray, Bomberman DS and Pokemon Emerald too :)

[ChrisBrightwell]

It should be noted that the Revolution has ports for the GameCube controllers and memory cards so no problem using your wavebird for GC games.News to me. Thanks.

You never played Metroid Prime 2? :eek:Woud you believe that I preordered it, picked it up, and haven't been able to play it?

I think I've got an hour of MP2:E logged ... and that's it. I'm hoping to spend some time on it between summer and fall terms at school, but you never know. Here's hoping.

[GFLPraxis]

Just so you know I'm not making it up ;)
http://cubemedia.ign.com/cube/image/article/522/522559/igncubes-nintendo-revolution-faq-20050525023043410.jpg

[Yvan256]

You never played Metroid Prime 2? :eek:

Add the first Metroid Prime, Pikmin and Pikmin 2 to that list!

[Dagless]

Add the first Metroid Prime, Pikmin and Pikmin 2 to that list!
not to forget the utterly amazing and under-rated F-Zero GX.

[Dagless]

And, while you're at it, say "Hello" to the death of the GB family battery life monarchy.

eep! cant believe i didn't see that.

see nintendo have different priorities to other handheld/console makers. during the early GBA years battery life was a major priority which is why the first GBA lasts good on a set of batteries. fast forward 2-3 years and the SP comes out, with new technologies the battery life is better than the GBA. and now, look at the DS compared to the PSP (where the PSP sacrificed its battery for discs and better graphics). battery life is very important to Nintendo, and i like it that way. they will not be releasing a portable Cube for a good few years to come until they either change their priorities or new power saving technologies surface.
but maybe we'll see another 'Treamcast' who knows?

ps. just ordered Nanostray (DS) for just £20, should be here in a few days :) funny. apparently you cant find it for love or for money in the US, and there's been no European launch date announced. but CD-Wow are stocking it cheaper than any other DS game and have stock. tis a mad world :)

[GFLPraxis]

Supposedly new battery technologies such as quick charge Li-Ion (charges in one minute to 80%), Lithium Sulfur, and Oxyride are on their way...

References:
http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/03/30/0050228&from=rss
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/05/13/2235211
http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/04/07/1856253&from=rss

[Whyren]

One must remember that the GBA slot on the DS is not only for backwards compatibility. It's also for accessory use. For example, if Nintendo decided to released a new "Gameboy Camera", it'd use the GBA slot.

Didn't think the original Gameboy Camera (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00002ST2P/qid=1121993129/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl63/104-1218332-6211111?v=glance&s=videogames&n=507846) was that great...

[GFLPraxis]

Didn't think the original Gameboy Camera (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00002ST2P/qid=1121993129/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl63/104-1218332-6211111?v=glance&s=videogames&n=507846) was that great...

That was ages ago however. The technology has improved.

[jadam]

Well I just got a DS, and I bought for it Meteos, Kirby Canvas, Kirbay Amazing Mirror(GBA), and Riviera(GBA).

I really really like having a Puzzle game in one slot and an RPG in another, or two kirby games in my DS at a time =) Its really really awesome! My coworker who has a PSP was going all out on Meteos today, he loved it.

As far as online, I cant wait until Mario kart DS comes out, theres a starbucks right next to my job and I usually get a 2 hour break while wokring during the day, so really, online play would make my day!

Really I think the Revolution is awesome, add to the fact that im going to be buying a flashcart soon to run SNES and NES emulators on the DES, and it is a WIN!

[Sol]

The following link takes you to an interview with Shigeru Miyamoto.

http://www.nintendonow.com/index.php?categoryid=4&m_articles_articleid=2857&PHPSESSID=b1769650ef4fecda936ec4835785a5e4

Some interesting points:

• Revolution features USB. Come on Nintendo, FireWire is better in every way. If USB is so good why did you not use it on the GBA or DS? USB may even make it possible for hackers to bypass copy protection and since they are the smallest company that would hurt Nintendo more than SONY or Microsoft.

• DVD playback will be possible with an internal attachment. I can imagine that the Revolution's internal hardware would be powerful enough to play DVD-Video in software if MPEG2 is not part of the hardware. This smells like a cynical XBox-DVD-Remote-style plan to make money from an accessory.

• 480p will be the supported video system. That means Standard Definition resolution widescreen with smoother video. The graphics will not be as sharp as those on other consoles but there will be no flicker.

• Online GameCube games are possible. Why not? An online game lobby like GameRanger could be used for this. Chatting would be a problem without a keyboard but maybe the Revolution's controller will have a microphone.

• The Revolution controller is backwards compatible. We can assume that it will have all the same buttons, sticks, triggers and force feedback that the GC controller features. Add wi-fi, a battery and USB for recharging. So far, so PS3.

I got the impression that Nintendo will take its time with the games library of the Revolution. If we can play F-Zero GX online until F-Zero Revolution gets released I for one will not be complaining. I am also looking forward to using the DS with the Revolution. I can imagine Nintendogs uploading into the Revolution version of the series to access an online dog-park. Now that would be revolutionary.

[jadam]

Nintendogs is so overrated.

[MrSugar]

• The Revolution controller is backwards compatible. We can assume that it will have all the same buttons, sticks, triggers and force feedback that the GC controller features. Add wi-fi, a battery and USB for recharging. So far, so PS3.

Why does the controller have to be backwards compatible? From what I have heard the slots on the Revo are for GC controllers, and the new controllers will be completely wireless. That means the slots are there for backwards compatibility, not that the new controller will be.

[Sol]

Why does the controller have to be backwards compatible? From what I have heard the slots on the Revo are for GC controllers, and the new controllers will be completely wireless. That means the slots are there for backwards compatibility, not that the new controller will be.

From the interview:

"we designed the controller so it can play any of the different conventional styles. After all, we are talking about it playing games from our past machines (i.e.: the virtual console)."

The GC ports might be for connecting your old controllers so that four people can play at the same time. The GBA also connects to these ports for games that support it.

[GFLPraxis]

From the interview:

"we designed the controller so it can play any of the different conventional styles. After all, we are talking about it playing games from our past machines (i.e.: the virtual console)."

The GC ports might be for connecting your old controllers so that four people can play at the same time. The GBA also connects to these ports for games that support it.

Not to mention the bongos.

It's also been suggested the controller ports can be used for charging the Revolution controller.

[Dagless]

its pretty much going to be the be-all end-all Nintendo console. the only thing its not currently supporting is GB games (if the GBA games play wirelessly on the TV through the DS/Rev), needless to say there will be an add on for that.

i suppose its the best thing to do if you're the longest running console/handheld manufacturer thats still going strong. i mean i've still got NES, GB games in mint condition. and to play them again without resurrecting delicate archaic consoles would be a huge bonus. AND then have the ability to play Smash Bros Rev would be awesome.

and noooo! Nintendogs is awsome! a mate from uni has it. he's had it months and still addicted. thats me when its out in US/Europe/ENGLISH!

[takao]

hmm i a friend (who is going through lots of rumor sites and informing me on every snippet he hears) said that nintendo is rumored to pay around the same price for each ATI graphics chip... i wonder if microsoft's bigger discount (more chips) is either so huge or the power of both chips is not that much different after all... you gotta love those rumors and speculation

[jadam]

hmm i a friend (who is going through lots of rumor sites and informing me on every snippet he hears) said that nintendo is rumored to pay around the same price for each ATI graphics chip... i wonder if microsoft's bigger discount (more chips) is either so huge or the power of both chips is not that much different after all... you gotta love those rumors and speculation

Pay the same price as what?

Seriously though whats with nintendogs? Meteos and kirby I can understand, but nintendogs? noo

[takao]

Pay the same price as what?

as the other console company maker which uses ibm+ati chips ;)

[eva01]

nintendogs looks so awesome, i will buy it when it comes out :P

[GFLPraxis]

Don't forget the fact that Nintendo is launching quite a bit later than the XBox 360. Same price = better tech at a later date.

Still, I doubt they can have a equivilant processor AND graphics card in such a small case, but if its close enough I'll be happy.

[takao]

Don't forget the fact that Nintendo is launching quite a bit later than the XBox 360. Same price = better tech at a later date.

well i suspect them to be pretty similar in gpus perhaps nintendo has a few dozen mhzs less or perhaps a mb here and there

Still, I doubt they can have a equivalent processor AND graphics card in such a small case, but if its close enough I'll be happy.

well look at laptops sure not the same performance as desktop cpus but not as bad as it used to be
or prime example: size difference xbox/gamecube
graphics wise he cube weren't that much off and this time judging from pictures nintendo is smaller than the other twos but leaves out stuff like expension bay for hard disk, connectors here and there (those chips for those take up space too) etc.
those cpus aren't as big as pc-cpus either

my only concern is heat with the revolution.. i haven't seen any holes or anything for heat circulation...
for the cpu i'm suspecting some sort of cpu which would be suitable for laptops etc.

just look at the mac mini: it's smaller than the revo on the pictures (more depth) a lousy graphics card,a rather old mobile cpu and space taken up by hard disk, and connectors you wouldn't need on console etc. i think it's doable to put the stuff for a console in it (with cutting on stuff like cpu a little)
not an easy task sure but not impossible to make a great console

[GFLPraxis]

well i suspect them to be pretty similar in gpus perhaps nintendo has a few dozen mhzs less or perhaps a mb here and there

I expect the same. However, I expect a considerably different processor design. It will probably still be PowerPC, but I doubt they'll follow the narrow-and-long, high-clockspeed but low-performance-per-clock cycle, high floating point but terrible integer design of the other consoles.

I'd be interesting if we end up with PS3 = best graphics, Revolution = best physics.



well look at laptops sure not the same performance as desktop cpus but not as bad as it used to be

But compare the price of the laptops and desktops ;)

Remember, Nintendo is selling the Revo as the cheapest system.

or prime example: size difference xbox/gamecube
I'm hoping if there is a significant gap, it's the XBox/GameCube sized gap. In that case, I'll still be plenty happy. Although best case is that the Revo matches up to the 360 due to the later date...

[7on]

Not to mention that Rev games will be 480p while xbox games will be 1080p. That extra resolution will put more strain on the GPU than a 480p machine. Nintendo might even be able to get 4x AA into their machines.

[Dagless]

yea it seems to be common thinking that with the Cubes 480p means we'll be seeing games with effects to their maximum. and its fine for me, my parents said they're going to get a 40" Plasma for the living room downstairs, which means ill get the current 32" Widescreen tube TV. thats 480. so im happy :) i mean ill look into HDTV's as soon as they drop to a realistic price :rolleyes: AND when i start work :)

[GFLPraxis]

Not to mention that Rev games will be 480p while xbox games will be 1080p. That extra resolution will put more strain on the GPU than a 480p machine. Nintendo might even be able to get 4x AA into their machines.

Actually the PS3 and XBox 360 are both going to have 4x AA in all games (the XBox 360 actually has extra hardware specificly for doing AA).

But your point is valid, it will allow Ninty to turn up the effects much higher than the others. Still, HD would be nice. But it means in SD, Revolution games might actually look better than XBox 360 and PS3 games.

[kuyu]

At this point I'm inclined to state that all three consoles will have great graphics. This generation saw the xbox slightly edge out the gamecube, and they both stomped the PS2 in the gfx department. This generation will shift the current paradigm, not repeat it.

My bet is that PS3 will have the "most" gfx in that there will be more things on the screen at once. The 360 will have a title with the cleanest gfx. The programmable pipelines will allow titles with very few characters to really stand out as photorealistic. As far as Nintendo... who the heck knows anymore. Too many rumors, not enough facts. I guess we'll find out soon enough. They just better announce something before hardcore gamers all pre-order a 360 and/or a PS3.

So the gfx battle will come down to personal preference. The PS3 is more powerful at peak, so should push better graphics. However, as we know the gfx cards are similar in raw performace. Thus, the PS3's advantage really comes down to the 8 SPE's in the CELL. If these are not all utilized, the PS3's advantage slips away quite quickly. Thus I fear that cross-platform games by lazy developers will not fully use the potential of the CELL. Thus, a bunch of games will only use maybe 2 or 3 of the processors, and the PS3 loses it's advantage because of lazy developers.

Since this is a Nitendo thread... I'm thinking, with N's comments about ease of development, that their hardware will be based around a philosophy of simplicity. Nintendo's going to try to have the most games on their system. Add in NES, SNES, N64, Gamecube, and a ton of Rev titles, I'd say they will succeed in this respect.

[Abulia]

But it means in SD, Revolution games might actually look better than XBox 360 and PS3 games.No, they won't. I disagree vehemently. As someone who owns 3 HDTVs, and a slew of Xbox games (out of 50+, only one of which doesn't support 470p), there is a HUGE difference in quality between 480p, 720p, and 1080i.

It's all speculation, but in my experience even a mediocre 720p game looks better than a dazzling 480p game.

YMMV.

[ChrisBrightwell]

It's all speculation, but in my experience even a mediocre 720p game looks better than a dazzling 480p game.And here I grew up enjoying 256x240 resolutions with only 25 colors on-screen at once.

I'd love to see gaming get back to the games and quit focusing so much on how many pixels/polygons they can throw onto that screen. I'll take 61,440 pixels over millions (or billions) of polygons any day.

Hell, I used to play the old text adventure games (Zork, anyone?) and still rock some nethack on an embarassingly regular basis.

[Abulia]

Hell, I used to play the old text adventure games (Zork, anyone?) and still rock some nethack on an embarassingly regular basis.Yep. :) I hear you brother.

Pong baby! Feel the 2 colors! :D

I once dropped $300 in a month :eek: on Gemstone III, the licenced Rolemaster MMORPG on the old Commodore/Amiga network (Genie?). Totally text-based. Still running today, I believe.

[GFLPraxis]

No, they won't. I disagree vehemently. As someone who owns 3 HDTVs, and a slew of Xbox games (out of 50+, only one of which doesn't support 470p), there is a HUGE difference in quality between 480p, 720p, and 1080i.

It's all speculation, but in my experience even a mediocre 720p game looks better than a dazzling 480p game.

YMMV.

I think you misread my post.

I said IN SD. Because the XBox 360 games will have the settings tweaked for HD, when you plug an XBox 360 into a SD TV and a Revolution into a SD TV, the Revolution will look better.

When you plug both into HDTV's, then the Revolution won't look as good.

My comment was, "The Revolution will probably end up looking better in SDTV" and you respond "SDTV isn't as good as HDTV!"...thats kinda obvious, eh? ;)

[Abulia]

Because the XBox 360 games will have the settings tweaked for HD, when you plug an XBox 360 into a SD TV and a Revolution into a SD TV, the Revolution will look better.Perhaps. You don't know that...they may still look worse. ;)
My comment was, "The Revolution will probably end up looking better in SDTV" and you respond "SDTV isn't as good as HDTV!"...thats kinda obvious, eh? ;)Ah, in that case I concur. We are, for once, in agreement. ;)

[Dagless]

I still have this feeling that Nintendo is about to pull a trump card on the HDTV front. I dont know why, maybe its because the Cube has a HDTV output already? i keep thinking theres more to it.

also i'd like to say i dont care if Zelda is in 320x200 pixels, 480p, 1080i or a virtual reality environment. if its Zelda, its gonna own. :D

[Abulia]

I still have this feeling that Nintendo is about to pull a trump card on the HDTV front. I dont know why, maybe its because the Cube has a HDTV output already?The Cube doesn't have HDTV output support: it'll do a maximum of 480p, which isn't HDTV spec. Also, digital optical out was pulled from the Cubes after the first manufacturing run; you can't get optical out anymore from an off-the-shelf unit.

They (Nintendo, I forget who...the president?) stated no HDTV support for the Revolution. Now they could certainly go back on that statement, but then they a) were either lying the first time or b) don't have a defined strategy for the Revolution and understand its place in the market. Neither is a good reason to "flip-flop," IMO.

[GFLPraxis]

Well, one of the things they based the decision off of is that only 1% of GameCube owners used progressive scan.

In reality, the reason was that the progressive scan cable isn't sold in stores. So to play in 480p on the GameCube was to:

1) Have a progressive scan capable TV
2) Have a GameCube that has the output
3) Know where to get the cable, namely, order it off Nintendo's site
4) Hold B when you start up games
5) Make sure the games support progressive scan

Due to all this complications, few users even knew it supported it let alone used it. IMHO it was Nintendo's fault few users used it.


Popular demand might change Ninty's mind.

http://1080up.org/

[ChrisBrightwell]

you can't get optical out anymore from an off-the-shelf unit.Point of order: It was never an optical output. It was a component video output to support progressive-scan modes in certain games.

They (Nintendo, I forget who...the president?) stated no HDTV support for the Revolution. Now they could certainly go back on that statement, but then they a) were either lying the first time or b) don't have a defined strategy for the Revolution and understand its place in the market. Neither is a good reason to "flip-flop," IMO.What about when MS and Sony publish features at E3 and silently drop them for the production units?

I'd much rather a company say, "We're not doinig that," and figure it out down the road than say, "Yeah, we can do that," and come back later only to say that they can't.

MS is a prime example of that, especially with it's current Windows development. Sony is just as bad on the PS2/PS3.

[Abulia]

Point of order: It was never an optical output. It was a component video output to support progressive-scan modes in certain games.You are correct. I was referring to audio, however.

[ChrisBrightwell]

You are correct. I was referring to audio, however.
I owned a first-run GameCube (still do, in fact, but it's now a doorstop due to a dead drive motor) and it never had optical audio out.

It managed surround with ProLogic II, which matrixed a two-channel analog connection to get 4.1 or 5.1 audio.

[GFLPraxis]

I'd much rather a company say, "We're not doinig that," and figure it out down the road than say, "Yeah, we can do that," and come back later only to say that they can't.

And don't forget that Nintendo said, "we won't be supporting HD at this time". So it's possible consumer demand might change that decision.

[Abulia]

I owned a first-run GameCube (still do, in fact, but it's now a doorstop due to a dead drive motor) and it never had optical audio out.Sorry, my mistake to use the word "optical." I meant to say "digital A/V" port. It was removed in May 2004.

http://www.nintendo.com/consumer/systems/nintendogamecube/component_faq.jsp

http://cgfm2.emuviews.com/gc.php

[ChrisBrightwell]

Sorry, my mistake to use the word "optical." I meant to say "digital A/V" port.No problem -- I just wanted to stop misinformation before it got started.

[Abulia]

And don't forget that Nintendo said, "we won't be supporting HD at this time". So it's possible consumer demand might change that decision. True. And Bill Gates said: "We are looking at whether future versions of Xbox will incorporate an additional capability of an HD DVD player or something else" for the Xbox 360.

My point being that we can debate the potential forever; I think it's prudent to limit the discussion at hand to what we currently know about the consoles. And at this time, the Revolution will have no HDTV support.
Slated for release "sometime in 2006," the Revolution is notable for its mystery. It is not known at this time what processor it will use, what ports it will possess, or even if Revolution is the console's final name. What is known, however, is that the Revolution will not feature high definition output in any form. Source (http://www.projectorcentral.com/highdefgaming.htm)"Nintendo doesn't plan for the system to be HD compatible as with that comes a higher price for both the consumer and also the developer creating the game. Will it make the game better to play? With the technology being built into the Revolution, we believe the games will look brilliant and play brilliantly. This can all be done without HD."

[Dagless]

so whats that digital output port for on the back of my cube :confused: and im quite sure i read somewhere that Windwaker allowed 720p? or at least something higher than the norm.

i honestly dont know why im entering this whole Rev/HD discussion. i have a plain old 28" TV in my bedroom. no plasma/HDTV. i may be getting a 32" widescreen in the coming months. again. no HD. when i get a HDTV i might give a damn but until then its plain ol' 480p (or whatever the UK standard is) for me.

[cubist]

I and my stepson both got GBA's and we are very happy with them. Re battery life, it's excellent. I've got the GBP on a GC too, and have played some games (maybe I'll have to use that to get past the stupid 'no-collision' race in Corvette). GBA games are chunky on the monitor, but they do look bigger on my 20" monitor. I've been lurking and hearing from you guys about what games to get for the GC. I've spent some hours on the Sims (a memory-card-eater!) and have Pikmin coming.

So what I'd like is for you guys to talk me into getting a DS. No question the GBA slot could be used for a big flash card for some PDA or music-playing apps, if Nintendo wants to. And (unlike iPods) you could load the music into it over your wireless LAN. But... there's no reason to expect Nintendo to bring out this capability.

There is a drawback that the DS games won't work in the Gameboy Player. Is there some way to use the Cube as a display for the DS?

My couple of months with the GBA have convinced me that portable gaming, especially wireless, is the way to go.

[GFLPraxis]

True. And Bill Gates said: "We are looking at whether future versions of Xbox will incorporate an additional capability of an HD DVD player or something else" for the Xbox 360.

My point being that we can debate the potential forever; I think it's prudent to limit the discussion at hand to what we currently know about the consoles. And at this time, the Revolution will have no HDTV support.
Source (http://www.projectorcentral.com/highdefgaming.htm)

Oh, I agree, for now we're going to assume no support. I'm just bringing out that it's *possible* they might change their mind.

[Dagless]

Cubist; play Kirby: Canvas Curse. its just amazing. and Bomberman DS is the greatest multiplayer since Smash Bros Melee. theres not much i can really say, you have to experience Kirby really.

[GFLPraxis]

Slightly off topic, but I just got an awesome quote today :)

"The people who call the Gamecube a kiddy console are morons. The only two consoles with a strict demographic are Xbox and PS2. People should call them Abdolecent Box and Puberty Station 2."
- Imperial_Pilot_X, NextGen boards.