Mad as Hell and I'm not going to take it any more!

[tedkolb]

Not to rain on everyones parade but,

Apple has gone completely insane!

Yes, I applaud their efforts to expand the user base by offering feature ladden and competive laptops, but at the same time they need to protect their best customers from taking a bath on purchases made just prior to huge price cuts. Where was the warning (SFMW isn't until January), where were the rebates leading up to the price drops?

I have purchased two Apple computers this year, the PowerBook G4 667 just two weeks ago, and I am completely upset that Apple had so little regard for their customers that they didn't offer rebates prior to this new price drop. _On top of that my retailer will not provide price protection and I am left holding the bag of over $500 (al least I didn't buy the 800mhz model of which I would have been out over $900).

I have tried my best to support Apple by voting with my pocket book but I can not take this kind of disregard towards the very customers who keep Apple in business year in and year out (namely the REPEAT Macintosh buyer).

Apple can count on one thing in the future, I will be calling 1-800-WWW-DELL before I purchase my next computer, at least they provide 30 days of price protection for their customers. _ _ :mad:

[Rower_CPU]

There have been numerous rebates leading up to this refresh. Besides, if you frequent MacRumors, you had to know something was coming soon. ;)

I bought my 400MHz PowerBook a couple of weeks before the 667 model was released...oh well, I took advantage of the rebates and got a decent machine.

[dricci]

Um, this is how it has always been. You knew that before you made the purchase. If you were not comfortable with this policy, you should not have made your purchase.

Don't go crying Dell here, because nobody really cares. If you really want a new PowerBook, put your current one on eBay, and use what you get plus a few hundred extra to get a new one. If you don't want to do that, then be quiet and enjoy your semi-new Machine.

[mcrain]

I waited and watched, watched and waited. I knew what I wanted and the second that was released today, I bought. I won't be mad if they offer something else later, I got what I wanted now.

[vniow]

There's a sucker born every minute.

[mcrain]

Originally posted by edvniow
There's a sucker born every minute.

I don't know, I only remember being born once.

[beez7777]

this is called technology. you need to know that when you buy your computer, it will not be the fastest in the market forever. someone has to be the last to buy before an update. what i dont like is when the same people who complain about apple being "so far behind" in technology and how macs are so overpriced, complain when apple updates their line with better and cheaper products.

i am sorry if im sounding a little angry, but honestly, your computer is just as fast as when you bought it two weeks ago, which means it still does what you need it to do. sure its not the fastest, but ***** happens. be happy with what you have and if you choose to buy your next computer from dell, thats your own prroblem.

[tedkolb]

Understand one thing, if I had purchased two months ago or if Apple had released the new Powerbooks in January then C’est la vie. But I just spent $2499 exactly two weeks ago on a computer that today is $1999 (or lower if I was to search around). Hell, if someone bought the 800mhz model on Monday for $3199 they would be looking at a significant improvement in features for $2299 today. And everyone here thinks thats just the way it goes. You all clearly have much more money to burn than I.

Power_CPU: - What rebates? Are you referring to the $400 if I would have purchased an external 17" LCD for $999?

[arn]

sorry to hear that...I'm sure you're upset... and I know you just may be venting...

But for future reference... lately, Apple's been upgrading machines every 6-9 months.

This means, you should always look at when the most recent upgrade was... if it's 6-9 months ago... then you should wait if you can.

arn

[diorio]

Originally posted by tedkolb
Not to rain on everyones parade but,

Apple has gone completely insane!

Yes, I applaud their efforts to expand the user base by offering feature ladden and competive laptops, but at the same time they need to protect their best customers from taking a bath on purchases made just prior to huge price cuts. Where was the warning (SFMW isn't until January), where were the rebates leading up to the price drops?

I have purchased two Apple computers this year, the PowerBook G4 667 just two weeks ago, and I am completely upset that Apple had so little regard for their customers that they didn't offer rebates prior to this new price drop. _On top of that my retailer will not provide price protection and I am left holding the bag of over $500 (al least I didn't buy the 800mhz model of which I would have been out over $900).

I have tried my best to support Apple by voting with my pocket book but I can not take this kind of disregard towards the very customers who keep Apple in business year in and year out (namely the REPEAT Macintosh buyer).

Apple can count on one thing in the future, I will be calling 1-800-WWW-DELL before I purchase my next computer, at least they provide 30 days of price protection for their customers. _ _ :mad:

Umm, I knew that they were going to drop the price and I don't even own a Mac. Maybe a little more research on it would be the better road next time.

[tedkolb]

Originally posted by diorio


Umm, I knew that they were going to drop the price and I don't even own a Mac. Maybe a little more research on it would be the better road next time.

The rumor sites weren't even sure about what was going to be announced up till yesterday.

And for all the rest of you, what was the date of the first rumor about this price drop/upgrade. I ordered on October 21.

[Nipsy]

Originally posted by tedkolb
_On top of that my retailer will not provide price protection and I am left holding the bag of over $500 (al least I didn't buy the 800mhz model of which I would have been out over $900).


First off, these releases have been imminent for 6 weeks, much discussed, and with these dates rumored for about 3 weeks, so, you deserve what you got, as you obviously know where to find macrumors. Secondly, as you're a newbie here, I have seen these rumors on virtually every Mac site over the last month, with similar thoughts. You should always do a half hour of research before dropping $2500. Caveat emptor.

On a happier note, unless you're really silly you bought this with a credit card. Many credit cards offer 30/60/90 day price protection, and now would be a good time to read all that fine print you skipped...make sure you wait until close to the end of the period to increase the disparity!

Should you decide to go Dell in the future, what you gain in price protection, you'll lose in quality (of build and service). I have a Dell Laptop which has gone on 8 visits to Dell. The best one was where I sent it in for screen service, and they returned my flaky screen cracked beyond repair. I have watched many companies I've worked with go through similar [D]hell. I would recommend that if you do leave Apple, you buy a ThinkPad, as they are likely the most reliable of the PC laptops.

[arn]

Originally posted by tedkolb


The rumor sites weren't even sure about what was going to be announced up till yesterday.

And for all the rest of you, what was the date of the first rumor about this price drop/upgrade. I ordered on October 21.

There actually where a lot of them... a bit disjointed:

http://www.macrumors.com/searcharticles.php3?searchterm=powerbook

But... here's the rumor summary that I posted on September 20, 2002:

http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2002/09/20020920015537.shtml


The PowerBook is most certainly the next line from Apple to get an update. Based on the information available, pay attention to the coming weeks.


after this summary was posted, more tidbits came in - first for the 3rd week of October... then finally the November 5th date.

arn

[Nipsy]

MOSR 10/4:
http://www.mosr.com/index.php?view=recent

ThinkSecret 9/9:
http://www.thinksecret.com/news/parishardware.html

Spymac 9/8:
http://www.spymac.com/comments.php?id=P203_0_5_0_C

Here everyday for two months!

Mind you, this is the 30 seccond link post, and there are many, many more, but being a being of leisure, I'm going to take a siesta, rather than provide them.

[Mr. Anderson]

I've found that the rumor boards have been pretty good at coming up with about when the new upgrades will be out. Don't take it out on Apple, I'm sure you're going to be happy with the Mac you have, and yes most of us would probably be just as upset - if we didn't know about the pending upgrade. So, take this as an expensive lesson in buying a computer, and next time when you're in the market for a new machine, come by and ask for advice about buying. There have been numerous 'Should I buy now or wait' threads.

Good luck

D

[Chaszmyr]

I feel bad for you and all... When i got my first powerbook G3 a new one came out a week and a half after i got it. But look at it this way: If you DO know whats up in the computer industry, you know you get a mac as soon as it comes out and its not out dated for 8 months or so.... If you ask me this is better than the PC market where you buy a new computer and its oudated in 3 weeks EVERY TIME

[solvs]

Originally posted by tedkolb
Apple can count on one thing in the future, I will be calling 1-800-WWW-DELL before I purchase my next computer, at least they provide 30 days of price protection for their customers. _ _ :mad:

Yeah, cuz PCs never get updated. I hope you're joking about this, because WELCOME TO THE WORLD OF COMPUTING. Some people have very legitimate gripes, but you just seem to be b*tching over nothing. What do you want Apple to do, tell everybody when they're going to next upgrade their products so NO ONE buys the "old" model? You have a nice machine that will keep you going for a good long time, and when Apple finally ships the new 867s, you'll have had your machine for a good month. Money doesn't grow on trees, but some people should be so lucky.

Hate to quote a cartoon, but since you're acting like such a child (and you are, don't go looking for this kind of sympathy here), in the words of Eric Cartman "quit yer b*tching". :mad:

People, this is a whiner. Some people, sheesh. Get over it.

Wherfore art thou Alpha.

[tjwett]

...I have tried my best to support Apple by voting with my pocket book but I can not take this kind of disregard towards the very customers who keep Apple in business year in and year out (namely the REPEAT Macintosh buyer)...


Dude, you wear a pocketbook? Just kidding. I know how you feel. It's happened to the best of us. That's why I scour the rumor sites now before I buy ANYTHING. Remember, there's always eBay. Sorry about your experience. You still own a very nice computer and should use just as you had planned.

[springscansing]

man.. shut up. If you had a brain in your head you'd of waited, unless you needed it right away. And if you needed it right away, well, you couldn't of gotten a new one anyway!

[jadariv]

I am sorry I opened this thread. I scanned through all the postings and just got more and more mad. Everybody seems to be missing the point. This guy just spent a good deal of money and within two weeks could have saved $500. This is a lot of money. A company like apple who guards their releases like they do (and don't start with the watch the rumors site crap, because you would be sitting around forever trying to make any real release dates out), they should offer some sort of price protection. I think this is a totally legitimate to ask.

They should give price protection BECAUSE they are so secretive.

And no, they wouldn't be giving away their precious release date so no one will buy an existing laptop.

It would give mac buyers a little more comfort in buying current equipment knowing that they have at least a little bit of a buffer if a new release comes out. I think they would sell more computers if they did this because you wouldn't have all the bozos on these rumor sites saying they have to wait and wait and wait (cuz they don't want to get burned).

Although I've never had the problem this guy had, I am with you and I would be mad too.

[MacSlut]

You purchased your PowerBook based on the price of the product at the time and the value it had for you. You made the decision because it made sense. Without a relative comparison, you would be happy with the purchase.

It may be a good idea to purchase from stores or with credit cards that have price protection, OR... don't look back after the purchase.

What exactly is Apple supposed to do? Refund money for people who made purchases 1 week before the announcement? Oh, you would've just missed that! 2 weeks before? There you go, but oh, someone just missed it...3 weeks, 4 weeks.... where does the line become acceptable?

Just curious, but how could you possibly not know that new PowerBooks were coming?

[jadariv]

He's not a loser that combs rumor sites 24/7. That's probably how he didn't know.

[cr2sh]

Originally posted by jadariv
He's not a loser that combs rumor sites 24/7. That's probably how he didn't know.

You're right, he's not a loser.. just an ignorant consumer who came here bitching and moaning because his head was too far up his own ass to make an intelligent purchase. Glad we straightened that out...

[Rower_CPU]

Originally posted by jadariv
He's not a loser that combs rumor sites 24/7. That's probably how he didn't know.

Gimme a break. It's been all over the front pages of every rumor site for at least a month.

Own up to your lack of foresight, don't blame Apple.

[solvs]

Maybe it would be better if Apple never updated their computers ever. They just stayed exactly as they were now. Oh wait, no it wouldn't. That would be horrible. Look at how much we complain now because they don't update often enough. I'm sorry, but I have no sympathy for someone who has a brand new computer.

He made as informed a decision as he could at the time. Eventually Apple was going to update the line. Yeah it sucks for him, and $500 is a lot of money, but there's nothing he can do about it. Let it go man, accept it and enjoy your new computer. You can buy something the day after it's announced, and something better can come along the very next day. You never know.

Don't blame Apple because you wanted a computer and didn't feel like waiting any longer (how could you have known how long to wait anyway?). If you came here to complain about how unfair this is, you can see you've come to the wrong place. Hind sight is 20/20, but nobody told you to buy anything. Nobody tricked you or scammed you.

Notice how lighthearted everyone else seems when they talk about the same thing happening to them. It's just a computer, a tool. Feel stupid for a little while about how you almost had some thing better for less, and get over it. Shoulda, woulda, coulda.

Lets see how you like your new Dell 31 days after you buy it, and something way better comes along for much less.

That is, if it still works.

[cr2sh]

Originally posted by solvs
You can buy something the day after it's announced, and something better can come along the very next day.

So what what you're saying is we're getting a g4 Ti @1.25GHz tomorrow? YAY! Glad I didn't buy today! What a bunch of suckers...

[rainman::|:|]

sit down.

smoke a joint.

shut up.

i had this same thing happen to me, when i bought my first iMac, and there *weren't* rumor sites like this, and Apple didn't have a consistent upgrade schedule... so it was a best-guess scenario. Eventually, tho, your computer stops being a frigging toy and starts being a tool. you have the "best and fastest" for a little while and then you simply have a really nice, newer-than-your-previous computer.

Come back when you can learn to live with what you bought. I would have had sympathy for you, but your attitude that the world, and Apple, owes you something is totally bunk.

Now, in better news, RJ's really starting to appreciate why i had him wait before spending *all* that money on an iBook... he can get it for a lot cheaper now, so perhaps we can afford a new iMac as well :)

pnw

[madamimadam]

The funniest thing is that he thinks there are enough people here who could care for his crying to want to make a new thread for it.

Jesus man... I have been waiting months for this, not because the rumour sites said "maybe, possibly it could happen sometime soon" back before the end of September but because I took a look at the Apple site and read their specs page which told me that the PowerBooks were coming up for a revision soon.

EVERYONE knows that computers get upgraded in little over 6 month intervals (to generalise) and the PowerBook had past that mark. Those of us who are full on rumour site readers had an even bigger advantage because there were people here who worked out the average replacement time for the PowerBook.

Now, I must go back to working out whether I want the 867 or the 1G.... the business has both on order and I just have to make my choice.

[Sun Baked]

Think of all the money you wasted by NOT reading about your purchase before going out and buying.

It happens...

When something meets your needs and you MUST have it, buy it.

When you can afford to wait until the availability of a newly released machine is sufficient, buy then.

Otherwise you can sit around and complain about the poor timing of your choice all day.

Get over it...

or start counting lost dollars.

[arn]

Originally posted by jadariv
I am sorry I opened this thread. I scanned through all the postings and just got more and more mad. Everybody seems to be missing the point.


No, I think everyone get's the point.... and knows that it sucks to buy a machine and then have the price drop on you in 2 weeks.

But many people know this is the way of life in the computing world, especially apple... and they know, you don't buy a computer near the end of it's cycle...

My rule of thumb:

if you absolutely need a computer, buy it now, otherwise, only buy immediately after a new product introduction. Either the new products, or the old ones at discounted priecs.


arn

[madamimadam]

Originally posted by arn


No, I think everyone get's the point.... and knows that it sucks to buy a machine and then have the price drop on you in 2 weeks.

But many people know this is the way of life in the computing world, especially apple... and they know, you don't buy a computer near the end of it's cycle...

My rule of thumb:

if you absolutely need a computer, buy it now, otherwise, only buy immediately after a new product introduction. Either the new products, or the old ones at discounted priecs.


arn

Hear Hear.... sounds like a good place to close a thread to me.

[diorio]

Originally posted by madamimadam


Hear Hear.... sounds like a good place to close a thread to me.

Yes, I just read some of the posts and it seems everyone is universally saying, yeah it sucks, but suck it up and wait next time. Of course, all posts weren't quite this nice.:D

[tedkolb]

Quite frankly, I stay loosely aware of Apple's pending announcements and was anticipating a SFMW update to the PowerBook line. Should I have to carefully time my purchase according to my ability to track rumors? Or should Apple be customer oriented enough to offer timely price reductions and/or rebates prior to the planned obsolecence of their current line up?

In the PC world the advancements come in smaller increments more often. They don't pack the same kind of wallop. The competition alone guarantees that you are always buying at the best available pricing. Apple was clearly operating with a huge markup on these Powerbooks if they can turn what was a $3199 top of the line laptop into a closeout/discontinued machine with specs below their new entry level model for $2299. Doesn't this come as a shocker to anyone?

I think its safe to say that all of you who follow Apple so closely are quite surprised by the leap Apple just took with the Powerbook line.

I guess I'm upset that the improvement in the PowerBooks combined with the price decline is so extreme that it instantly decreased the value of what I just purchased by almost half. I couldn't sell this machine for anything over $1500 or $1600 at this point. I can't think of any other consumer product company that bills itself as the Cadillac of their industry conduct themselves with such arrogance. But then again why should they change when they have so many repeat customers willing to overpay. ;)

[jadariv]

I think you made a valid point with the price protection. I mean, really, wouldn't that be a great incentive for customers. And I mean that for any company (not just apple) that sells products in this price range with such turnarounds in technology. That's all I was saying.

On another note, I love the apple brain dead on these forums that attack anything perceived as anti-apple. That's why I stop in and read the forums every now and then. Funny stuff these angry, angry people. And mac people are supposed to be the nice, fluffy ones, right?

[buffsldr]

Originally posted by tedkolb
Quite frankly, I stay loosely aware of Apple's pending announcements and was anticipating a SFMW update to the PowerBook line. Should I have to carefully time my purchase according to my ability to track rumors? Or should Apple be customer oriented enough to offer timely price reductions and/or rebates prior to the planned obsolecence of their current line up?

In the PC world the advancements come in smaller increments more often. They don't pack the same kind of wallop. The competition alone guarantees that you are always buying at the best available pricing. Apple was clearly operating with a huge markup on these Powerbooks if they can turn what was a $3199 top of the line laptop into a closeout/discontinued machine with specs below their new entry level model for $2299. Doesn't this come as a shocker to anyone?

I think its safe to say that all of you who follow Apple so closely are quite surprised by the leap Apple just took with the Powerbook line.

I guess I'm upset that the improvement in the PowerBooks combined with the price decline is so extreme that it instantly decreased the value of what I just purchased by almost half. I couldn't sell this machine for anything over $1500 or $1600 at this point. I can't think of any other consumer product company that bills itself as the Cadillac of their industry conduct themselves with such arrogance. But then again why should they change when they have so many repeat customers willing to overpay. ;)

Now would be a good time to move on with your life. Of course it sucks, but , be realistic. You spent your money, you can be responsible for it.

[scem0]

That sucks. I completely agree with you too. I can't be too mad at apple right now, because I am really proud of the new updates. But that sux, better luck next time.;)

[beatle888]

Originally posted by tedkolb


The rumor sites weren't even sure about what was going to be announced up till yesterday.

And for all the rest of you, what was the date of the first rumor about this price drop/upgrade. I ordered on October 21.


tedkolb, it really sucks and i would be upset too.
it would be nice if we new when new models
were going to be released...sort of like a new
model of an automobile. Im sure a car dealer would
tell you when new models are to be expected
but apple wouldnt tell you thats for sure.
i think it sucks...but just to let you know i have
the first 667 and i love it....i do highend photo
manipulation...with external monitor.
you will too i hope. congrats on the new computer.

[FelixDerKater]

You know what I say to you, tedkolb? Too darn bad. You read the rumor sites. They said Nov. 5 or 6. If you could have waited, you should have. That's your fault. Do you want to hold back progress so you can be happy that you computer is top-of -the-line until January? Sorry, bud, but that ain't happening. Unlike you, I had to buy my TiBook 500 on a deadline for purchase, even though I knew there would be updated TiBook 667's within two weeks, at a lower price with better GPU's, full speed FireWire, and better ventilation. So, as I said in the beginning of the post, you read the rumors sites. They were accurate, other than the MWSF stuff that came up late, so too bad. Suck it up and keep on going. :)

[Computer_Phreak]

im surprised NO ONE has said this yet but:

PowerBooks are still selling for near old retail prices on eBay. Only the very loyal to Apple know the day that a new product comes out.


While everyone here knows there are new powerbooks, not many people know that yet onn eBay.


Hurry up and sell it for ~$2200 while people are still oblivious.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2066627565

$1825 and going up fast.

[Somebody]

I think that ted is pointing out out a more basic issue with the way Apple handles its pricing and updates.

Doing updates every 6 months mean that there are these large, sharp drops in the price associated with a given level of performance. Meanwhile, the value of a specific computer in a user's hands drops in a smoother, less jerky fashion, because, while it's influenced by the drops in price/performance that come with machine updates, people to some extent anticipate those drops.

Because of this, informed buyers tend to wait until just after new releases to make their purchases: That's the point at which the difference between what the pay for the machine and the value it will have when they receive it will be the lowest. So Apple goes from having fairly low sales on a model to suddenly having a huge number of orders to fulfill, in a short period. People like tedkolb get angry because they feel ripped off, and people like me are frustrated because we have to wait a long time for our lovely new machines to arrive.

If Apple were to arrange for the drops in price/performance to be smaller and come more frequently, their sales of a model would be distributed more evenly across the lifetime of a model. Now, Apple probably can't manage to squeeze out new machines more often -- product development can only be sped up so much by throwing more people at it. But they could start having smaller, more frequent price drops on their machines (say, $50-$100 every month), to smooth out the famine/feast cycle. If they'd been charging $2700 for the 800MHz powerbooks in September, I might have gone ahead and bought then. And while they got more gross revenue out of me now than they would have then, it's not clear that they've gotten more net profit.

[iJon]

Originally posted by tedkolb


The rumor sites weren't even sure about what was going to be announced up till yesterday.

And for all the rest of you, what was the date of the first rumor about this price drop/upgrade. I ordered on October 21.

If you are browsing mac rumors you would have known new ones were coming out. If you had known that apple updates there machines in a timely order you would have known there would have been an update. and shut up about your computer. there are tons of people on this forum that would love to have your computer, make an offer and see if you can sell it, dont expect to get much though. just enjoy what you have and do some more research next time and go get a dell and get off this forum. you just want some sympathy.

iJon

[Sun Baked]

Originally posted by Somebody
Doing updates every 6 months mean that there are these large, sharp drops in the price associated with a given level of performance. Meanwhile, the value of a specific computer in a user's hands drops in a smoother, less jerky fashion, because, while it's influenced by the drops in price/performance that come with machine updates, people to some extent anticipate those drops.

Because of this, informed buyers tend to wait until just after new releases to make their purchases: That's the point at which the difference between what the pay for the machine and the value it will have when they receive it will be the lowest. So Apple goes from having fairly low sales on a model to suddenly having a huge number of orders to fulfill, in a short period. People like tedkolb get angry because they feel ripped off, and people like me are frustrated because we have to wait a long time for our lovely new machines to arrive.

That would be fine and dandy if it were possible, but Apple is at the mercy of IBM/Motorola.

They must be able to supply those incremental speed bumps every 90 days, IBM "may" be able to pull it off - but we don't need G3 processors at the speed IBM can currently deliver (plus the loss of dual processor machines and Altivec would be a BIG performance hit).

We need Motorola (or another supplier) to step up and offer G4 production increases fast enough. But Motorola has been taking 6-9 months to take each baby step.

Apple is after all at the mercy of their part suppliers and outsourced production partners.

[Somebody]

But Motorola has been taking 6-9 months to take each baby step.

Did you read my entire post? I agree that Apple can't do new releases much more frequently than they are now. My suggestion was that they have regular small cuts in a specific model's price across its lifetime. So a machine might be introduced in April at $3.2k, but be selling at $2.5k in October, just before it's discontinued and replaced by a faster model.

[rugby]

If you want to go Dell, be prepared to have an obsolete computer in a matter of minutes. I build PC's in my spare time and am amazed at how quickly things become obsolete. I always budget $50-$75 for a cpu for the computers I'm building and every week or two I get a bit faster. You wouldn't like that at all if you dont' like this mini jump.

[Sun Baked]

The actual monthly price decreases probably wouldn't work either, dropping MSRP would be replaced by increasing prices once every 6 months - something computer consumers really don't like to see in the world of cheaper/faster.

The only way to do it would be to keep MSRP the same, and decrease MAP and wholesale every 3 months, or continue to offer rebates/combo deals/etc.

But then of course you'd be shooting the Applestore in the foot playing with MAP and wholesale, and shifting sales/profits to independent retailers instead - bad thing to do for a public company.

People are getting used to the rebates/deals ending and a new machine taking the old ones place.

No matter what choice you make as a company, somebody will be unhappy - just make sure it impacts the companies profits and image the least.

[fujimi442]

ok, Incase you haven't figured it out yet mac is taking returns on ibooks and powerbooks purchased between oct 27 and nov 5. Go to any apple store and they will do it, they will either credit you the amt your mac droped in price, or you can return yours for a 10% restocking fee and get the new models! I hope this helps, you better do it soon because i think the last day is nov 20. I also made another post about this, but i just realized no one will probably look at " my new 867 pb" since everyone and their aunt has posted about them lately. good luck