LCD Prices/Supply

[arn]

This CNet article (http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1006-200-8447755.html?tag=tp_pr) discusses the upcoming market situation regarding LCD monitors:

Bruce Berkoff, executive vice president at LCD maker LG Philips LCD, said that he's been predicting a shortage for some time and sees it as part of a cycle that consists of two-year periods of oversupply and two-year periods of shortage, causing price fluctuations. Berkoff anticipates an industrywide shortage as early as mid-2002 that will last through 2003

If shortages do come, that may affect Apple's ability to keep up with iMac demand.

[Ossa]

Wow apple really will be screwed if such a calamity happens! Imagine how damaging it would be to the consumer market and apples share price if they were unable to ship the new imac. Doesn't bare thinking about :eek:

[mischief]

This is a known issue, Apple purchased an LCD plant about a year ago.

[Ossa]

Originally posted by mischief
This is a known issue, Apple purchased an LCD plant about a year ago.

As good as that news is Mishchief don't you reckon there could still issues relating to short supplies of components etc. that apple would still have to have manufactured elsewhere?

[Omen88]

Maybe Apple is the reason for the shortage hehe

[Unregistered]

I really doubt that there is any shortage. This is plain bull. Works liek this, company wants to gouge us, so they warn us: "BTW, where going to raise prices". Our answer must be "then where not buying". Its like the oil industry, or natural gas: We have a monopoly interest protected by the government, can we gouge the public a bit more? It's time for LCd prices to drop in line with CRT's. And for CRt's to go bye bye. Nuff said.

[Unregistered]

Gee guys! Did we forget that Apple has been smart enough to have CONTRACTS in place with several LCD maufacturers for over 3 years? OOPS! Granted, there MAY be some price impact on Apple, but not anything close to what may hit the general PC market.
Now about all those PCheads who gripe that Apple controls the whole process from manufacturing to software......seems like they just Think Different.
BillyBob

[Unregistered]

Two years ago Apple invested in Samsung to help them expand their manufacturing capability for LCDs (they have a joint venture with Philips on this). The money given to Samsung was actually a loan and eventually returned to Apple. Apple has waited this long to introduce an LCD iMac because wanted to have enough LCD screens to insure a supply for the next several years. No sense in being worried about this.

[mnoya]

I find it funny that the maker of the screens is predicting the shortage. Granted that he may have to deal with supply lines and shortages but I find it tough to swallow. It would be like McDonald's stating that they forsee a shortage in cheeseburgers and it could affect the industry.

The timing for a shortage is perfect since Steve (Jobs) did just say "this is the official death to the CRT".

Shortage? or opportunity?

[mischief]

I remember that deal. That investment was not what I was talking about.

[BillGates]

Steve told us all that the reason behind selling the more expensive iMac first was because that is the one we wanted. I wouldn't doubt that the truth is that the only flat panel iMac they can make a decent profit on is the more expensive one. Steve is gambling that the price of the LCD panels will drop allowing the 1299 iMac to make a few bucks for Apple. The 1299 iMac will be the best seller. How do you edit video on a 1024 x 768 screen????

Two years to design. Hogwash. Two years to wait for it to be cost effective.

[StealthRider]

I think I remember someone at Apple I know let slip about the LCD iMAc.....

[StealthRider]

Originally posted by BillGates
Steve told us all that the reason behind selling the more expensive iMac first was because that is the one we wanted. I wouldn't doubt that the truth is that the only flat panel iMac they can make a decent profit on is the more expensive one. Steve is gambling that the price of the LCD panels will drop allowing the 1299 iMac to make a few bucks for Apple. The 1299 iMac will be the best seller. How do you edit video on a 1024 x 768 screen????

Two years to design. Hogwash. Two years to wait for it to be cost effective.

Cost effective, yes. When did they have an LCD for the G3 out? How much was it? If they'd had LCD iMAcs then, they'd be broke, God forbid....

[MacUser99]

If I were to buy a new iMac. The high end model really is the best deal and the only one I would consider. I think that having superdrive in the long run will be worth the cost difference.

And besides, Mac Mall and the other companies are giving away 256megs of Ram and a free printer with the iMac purchase. So for $1800 you can have a nice G4 system, that would have cost $3000 just a month ago... $2500 for mac with superdrive plus monitor, speakers and software. Not to mention it wasn't 800Hz.

[Jookbox]

Originally posted by Unregistered
It's time for LCd prices to drop in line with CRT's. And for CRt's to go bye bye. Nuff said.

unfortunately, a current LCD isn't the best monitor for a graphic or web designer. nothing beats a good crt.

[Rower_CPU]

LCDs are GREAT monitors for web design or any other text intensive work.

Web design is limited to 256 colors, so the color "problems" associated with LCDs are negligible. If you're a professional graphic designer, then yes you want the perfect color and contrast ratio a CRT gives you. Gamers like them for their high refresh rates. LCD displays are constantly improving and becoming quite comparable with CRTS. I agree with the previous post...sound the death knell for CRTs already.

[Gelfin]

Oh, come on, it's obvious why the iMac release is staged this way. It's not that they can't make money on the cheaper ones. It's that they know the demand exists for the more expensive ones among "the faithful" (and sales numbers clearly back this up), so selling the expensive one first brings in capital which they can reinvest in ramping up the production process to make large numbers of less expensive ones more economically, while at the same time the first-wave SuperDrive models are already out in the world serving as live advertising.

Personally, when Steve announced it at MWSF, it immediately struck me as one of the most lucid and well-considered release strategies I'd ever heard.

[Jookbox]

Originally posted by Rower_CPU
LCDs are GREAT monitors for web design or any other text intensive work.

Web design is limited to 256 colors, so the color "problems" associated with LCDs are negligible. If you're a professional graphic designer, then yes you want the perfect color and contrast ratio a CRT gives you. Gamers like them for their high refresh rates. LCD displays are constantly improving and becoming quite comparable with CRTS. I agree with the previous post...sound the death knell for CRTs already.

web design is limited to 256 colors? what are you smoking? everything i said in the previous post is true.

[Gelfin]

Originally posted by Jookbox
web design is limited to 256 colors? what are you smoking? everything i said in the previous post is true.

I see what the guy's saying. He's talking "web-safe" colors. You know, the 216 combinations of {00, 33, 66, 99, CC, FF} that all graphical browsers are supposed to be able to render without dithering.

Not really a "limitation" per se, but some graphical web editors give you the impression that it is. I don't adhere to them for my own site, but I suppose if I were putting together a site for commercial use I probably would.

Personally I'm not that picky at design-time. I do all my web work on the Powerbook, but I do check things on a CRT before I commit them, so that I can see how it will look to most viewers if nothing else.

[mymemory]

A co0mpany like Apple sell their products for about 5 or 6 times the real price. I'm sure the top of the line G4 tower cost about 600$ or less out the assembly line. The rest of waht we paid for is for advertising and a big chunk to guarantee production.

Apple is a company big enough to consider the supply factor. The LCD market is not like the oil market, in fact LCD prices should go down some time soon. Just realize that a 21" CTR now cost about $800 or less when 3 years ago were $3.000.

Flat panels are better because of the flickering, the weigh factor and the small overall volume on the desk.

[Gelfin]

That's a little exaggerated. Apple pulls in about 30% margin on average, as I recall. This is among the highest in the industry, but Apple deals in higher quality and lower quantity, so they need a higher margin to survive.

[mymemory]

$600 is a number, I'm not economist, the computer can cost $200 or $100 each. Just realize something. The only difference between the high end model and the low end are memory, processor and the drive, the rest is mass production.

But wat calls my attention (and is what I use as a reference in this case) is the difference of value of a 21" monitor today and 3 years ago.

Do not tell me that components are cheaper now, the CTR are a bit better now days and that means new componentes. Is the market that have changed. So, if we think about the difference of price for the same product, we can asume that a LCD is 3 times overpriced now.

The point is that with that difference of value Apple can cover any issue during production. I do not think there will be problems with the iMac in the future or any other LCD monitor. What I spect is that the value will decrease very soon (I hope sooner than that) and we may get (we may have the option of...) a new line of LCD monitors.

[Pepzhez]

Certainly LCD screens will gradually improve in quality and continue to drop in price, but in order to do any serious video editing, it's going to be a long while before even the most expensive LCDs ever catch up with a good CRT design. I wouldn't want to edit even on an overpriced Apple Cinema Display (I invite you to compare the quality of a Sony PVM video monitor to the most expensive LCD or plasma screen you can find; there's zero comparison), nor do I know anyone else who would (obviously I am not talking about your average consumer using imovie).

Another factor everyone has thus far neglected to mention is the miserable reliability and durability of LCD designs. Dead pixels, anyone? Not "if" but always "when". Always.

[swahilibill]

Where can I get one of those first apple flat panel monitors that had the neck on them, I thought those were the best monitors ever. Just wondering, if nybody knows email me at robertherman87@earthlink.net.

[mischief]

Originally posted by Ossa


As good as that news is Mishchief don't you reckon there could still issues relating to short supplies of components etc. that apple would still have to have manufactured elsewhere?

Ever wondered if those cool new IBM LCD's are different motherglass?

[madamimadam]

Originally posted by Pepzhez
Certainly LCD screens will gradually improve in quality and continue to drop in price, but in order to do any serious video editing, it's going to be a long while before even the most expensive LCDs ever catch up with a good CRT design. I wouldn't want to edit even on an overpriced Apple Cinema Display (I invite you to compare the quality of a Sony PVM video monitor to the most expensive LCD or plasma screen you can find; there's zero comparison), nor do I know anyone else who would (obviously I am not talking about your average consumer using imovie).

Another factor everyone has thus far neglected to mention is the miserable reliability and durability of LCD designs. Dead pixels, anyone? Not "if" but always "when". Always.

I LOVE my Apple LCD and I do lots of graphic design (some of us are not as cocky about a minor difference that the average user can not distinguish anyway) BUT I have to agree with the pixel comment. My monitor came with a dead pixel and I was nicely informed that Apple will not replace the monitor if it has 1 dead pixel in the centre of the screen..... I still love it, though.

[Xapplimatic]

Originally posted by Pepzhez
Another factor everyone has thus far neglected to mention is the miserable reliability and durability of LCD designs. Dead pixels, anyone? Not "if" but always "when". Always.

Neglected to mention probably because it isn't a problem. LCDs are quite reliable. I have yet to buy an LCD that had the "stuck pixel" problem. I've had various models of Apple laptop LCDs since the Powerbook 100 and not one single stuck pixel or burned out backlight. It all depends on who's making them and how.. just like CRTs..

Does anyone complain that CRTs are have "miserable reliability" because a few of them will loose one of their color guns over time, or the monitor smokes out because a high voltage path will arc out with something on the board because the PCBs are cheaply mass manufactured? It happens, but it's not common. Durability? Hmm.. drop glass screen, glass breaks.. drop plastic screen.. plastic breaks.. I'd call that a tie.. but if anyone asked me which one I'd rather have dropped on my foot, it wouldn't be the CRT!

I would entertain however health issue discussions about CRTs and LCDs.. Since LCDs backlights operate at frequencies >400Hz, I think they are slightly better for people with Epilepsy to look at. Eye-strain.. LCDs win again. Less radiation, less stroboscopic effect.

As for editing video on 1024x768.. I've done it quite successfully on 800 x 600 in fact, but of course, I'm working with DV streams not HDTV res...

Of course, if someone likes CRTs all that much, I'm sure they can contract with someone to install a 15 " CRT screen on their PowerBook, but I wouldn't call it a book anymore.. it would have to be called say, the PowerBlob.. :)

[motive8]

One footnote to remember as well: LCD's are also safer--there is little or no radiation to worry about--though i will miss the studio tan i got (and wincing headaches) with my 21" Radius Intellicolor Behemoth.

The only caveat: LCD's don't make a wonderful smashing sound when dropped off a high roof like a good CRT.

[madamimadam]

Originally posted by motive8
One footnote to remember as well: LCD's are also safer--there is little or no radiation to worry about--though i will miss the studio tan i got (and wincing headaches) with my 21" Radius Intellicolor Behemoth.

The only caveat: LCD's don't make a wonderful smashing sound when dropped off a high roof like a good CRT.

Maybe we can get a custom design LCBlob. An LCD with a vaccum chamber behind it.

[jefhatfield]

imagine a mac with lcd for under a grand

then under 900

then...