Intel Macs at MWSF?

[FredAkbar]

Sorry for yet another Intel thread, but I'm curious about this. When Steve said they planned to have Intel Macs out by "when we meet here a year from now" (meaning WWDC 2006), I figured he meant they'd have been out for a while by the time WWDC rolled around, and that the first Intel Macs would come out in January. But everyone else talks as if he basically said they'd release the first Intel Macs at WWDC. So do you guys think it's possible/probable that we'll see some Intel Macs in January? They wouldn't want to release them outside of a major, regular event, so if they don't do it at MWSF then they'd have to wait till June, even if the Macs could be ready before then.

[Heb1228]

I think the consensus around here has been that they will probably release them sometime between March and June next year. I could be wrong, don't want to speak for everyone else. My guess is about April or May.

[wide]

I think the first ones to be released will be the PowerBooks in June '06.

[joecool85]

Sorry for yet another Intel thread, but I'm curious about this. When Steve said they planned to have Intel Macs out by "when we meet here a year from now" (meaning WWDC 2006), I figured he meant they'd have been out for a while by the time WWDC rolled around, and that the first Intel Macs would come out in January. But everyone else talks as if he basically said they'd release the first Intel Macs at WWDC. So do you guys think it's possible/probable that we'll see some Intel Macs in January? They wouldn't want to release them outside of a major, regular event, so if they don't do it at MWSF then they'd have to wait till June, even if the Macs could be ready before then.

I did take it that it would mean one year from then we would see the first ones rolling off the lines...but, I suppose he could have meant that by then we would have them in the hands of the users, and maybe for quite some time. Who knows? Apple has been a little crazy with everything lately. That would explain the lack of PB update thus far, and the lack of mini processor update as well.

[comictimes]

I think the first ones to be released will be the PowerBooks in June '06.
Oh please let it be so. I'm buying myself a new powerbook when I graduate, and if the new ones are intel that would make my life complete...

[FredAkbar]

Well, they can't really give the PBs much more than they already have, can they? They have 1.5 and 1.67 GHz processors, so unless they go to G5s, which would be questionable, they can't get much faster. They have 512 MB of RAM, scrolling trackpad and motion sensor, and built-in wireless. Other than price drops (which aren't necessary because of the iBook) or making a 128 MB gfx card standard (which isn't really necessary; most users don't need more than 64 MB), the PBs are pretty much done.

For the Mac mini, though, I agree that they could make them a lot better. They're a unique product in that a) they're marketed mainly at potential switchers, and b) they don't come with things like a monitor, so it's not like making them a little faster would directly hurt sales of anything else (as opposed to, say, iBooks cutting into PB sales); if anything, it would just make them more attractive to Windows users, many of whom probably don't even know about the Intel news.

[Xephian]

I think the first ones to be released will be the PowerBooks in June '06.
I think it would most likely be an iBook, not a Powerbook for the notebooks. Apple said they would start with Low-End Macs all the way to their High-End Macs. My guess is that they will be updated in the following order:


Mac Mini
eMac
iBook
iMac
Powerbook
Power Mac

[Dr. Dastardly]

From what I heard I thought he said that they hope to have x86 Macs shipping before WWDC '06. Maybe not that much sooner though. But I wouldn't be suprised at all if they rolled out new x86 Powerbooks as soon as MWSF. The transistion seems to be going smoother than what people expected so it sounds like a good chance that we might see something updated at MWSF.

[yg17]

I think it would most likely be an iBook, not a Powerbook for the notebooks. Apple said they would start with Low-End Macs all the way to their High-End Macs. My guess is that they will be updated in the following order:


Mac Mini
eMac
iBook
iMac
Powerbook
Power Mac


I bet the PBs will be the first to get intel chips. They're at a dead end and have pretty much been there for awhile. The G4 isnt getting much faster and it would be a waste for Apple to make G5 powerbooks with x86 around the corner. The iBooks still have a bit of room to grow on the G4 platform and once Intel PBs come out, the iBook could probably get the specs the G4 PBs had. Although it would make sense for Apple to move their entire line to Intel at around the same time. If Intel Powerbooks came out in say, March and the iBooks' G4 got a speed bump, no one would buy the iBook knowing it will get the Intel chip soon.

[Heb1228]

Steve said in the keynote that consumer Macs would be the first to get Intel chips. That means PBs will not be the first. :D

[AliensAreFuzzy]

For crying out loud, it was never said at the keynote that consumer macs would be first.

[Heb1228]

I remember him saying it.

[berkleeboy210]

Yup he said consumer macs would be first. And didn't he say that he hopes the entire transition will be complete by sometime in '07?

[yg17]

Yup he said consumer macs would be first. And didn't he say that he hopes the entire transition will be complete by sometime in '07?

Jesus thats a long time.


I don't see the point of waiting once the first Intel Macs are out. The biggest obstacle is the software. Once that is complete, we'll be seeing the first Intel Macs. Why wait to convert everything to Intel? There's no advantage. The hardware stuff seems like it would be pretty simple. Hard drive and optical drives are the same. RAM is the same. Video cards may or may not be the same (will regular PC AGP cards work?) Only thing different is the processor, which there shouldnt be any supply problems, thats the point of the switch, and the motherboard, again which would probably be a standard PC mobo with the extra chip that makes OSX only run on Macs.


If Apple will be waiting simply because they can (to build up hype or whatever) then thats a pretty stupid idea, as once Intel Macs hit the shelves, the remaining PPC Macs won't sell at all as people wait for the Mac they want to get the Intel chip.

[Heb1228]

I don't see the point of waiting once the first Intel Macs are out.

My guess is that they want to iron out a few kinks before they put out the PowerMacs. They don't want their power users buying the things and doing something like the FW800 drives did in Panther. We all know the first version of hardware is the most likely to have problems. I think they want to try to get as much of that out of the way as possible before they have to start taking a huge number of returns on their really expensive machines.

Just my guess...

[Panoctopi]

I think it would most likely be an iBook, not a Powerbook for the notebooks. Apple said they would start with Low-End Macs all the way to their High-End Macs.
[/list]

As far as I know Apple has yet to lay out a strategy for the release of the Intel product line, other than it will going buy June '06. If I missed something please provide the link.

Edit:
IMO it makes more sense that Apple would release Intel PBs first, with the latest revision of iBooks the gap has been narrowed and a possible move to intel iBooks would, in some ways, mean that iBooks would be superior to PB, which will never happen.
I'd expect some fanfare and announcements at MacWorld SF but no releases until WWDC '06, which being a developers gig would be appropriate to unveil a brand new line of faster and more powerful PB.

[Heb1228]

As far as I know Apple has yet to lay out a strategy for the release of the Intel product line, other than it will going buy June '06. If I missed something please provide the link.
Steve himself said it in the Keynote, I'm not sure if there's a transcript anywhere...

[Panoctopi]

Steve himself said it in the Keynote, I'm not sure if there's a transcript anywhere...
you know, i actually listened to that keynote a couple times and don't remember any specific references to that, and as I remember that surfaced as speculation in some sites and and forums a couple of weeks later.
still, i'm going from memory so... either way i guess we'll have to wait and see.

[Heb1228]

you know, i actually listened to that keynote a couple times and don't remember any specific references to that, and as I remember that surfaced as speculation in some sites and and forums a couple of weeks later.
still, i'm going from memory so... either way i guess we'll have to wait and see.
You're right... this has come up a couple of times just in these forums. I found a video of the Keynote and I'm DLing it now. I'm gonna go back and watch that segment again and if its in there, I'll post it so everybody can see it.

[Panoctopi]

so i found the transcript at cnet, since it's late i only scanned and, as i thought, found no mentions to what will be released first, but check it out for yourselves, here's the link (http://news.com.com/Apples+Intel+switch+Jobs+keynote+transcript/2100-1047_3-5748045.html). The 'Transitions' part begins at page 3, let me know if you found something.

[runninmac]

From what I heard I thought he said that they hope to have x86 Macs shipping before WWDC '06. Maybe not that much sooner though. But I wouldn't be suprised at all if they rolled out new x86 Powerbooks as soon as MWSF. The transistion seems to be going smoother than what people expected so it sounds like a good chance that we might see something updated at MWSF.

I agree completely. I really hope they start the transistion at MWSF.

[runninmac]

Yup he said consumer macs would be first. And didn't he say that he hopes the entire transition will be complete by sometime in '07?

I know for a fact that he never told us anything about what products would be first for the intel chips. I have looked for it and many other people have and never found it.

[crap freakboy]

Jesus thats a long time.


I don't see the point of waiting once the first Intel Macs are out. The biggest obstacle is the software. Once that is complete, we'll be seeing the first Intel Macs. Why wait to convert everything to Intel? There's no advantage. The hardware stuff seems like it would be pretty simple. Hard drive and optical drives are the same. RAM is the same. Video cards may or may not be the same (will regular PC AGP cards work?) Only thing different is the processor, which there shouldnt be any supply problems, thats the point of the switch, and the motherboard, again which would probably be a standard PC mobo with the extra chip that makes OSX only run on Macs.


If Apple will be waiting simply because they can (to build up hype or whatever) then thats a pretty stupid idea, as once Intel Macs hit the shelves, the remaining PPC Macs won't sell at all as people wait for the Mac they want to get the Intel chip.

Yep 2007 is an age but if your need to upgrade isn't a matter of extreme urgency then I'd wait. Why? Early leaked benchmarks from the dev Mactels suggest veeeeeeeeeerrrrrryy good things from Apple next year. That is if they don't pull the usual Apple stunt and cripple them with crap GPU's. Heres hoping they'll sort out who their market groups are and start using current technology rather than cheapo last year gear.

[bigben334]

so i found the transcript at cnet, since it's late i only scanned and, as i thought, found no mentions to what will be released first, but check it out for yourselves, here's the link (http://news.com.com/Apples+Intel+switch+Jobs+keynote+transcript/2100-1047_3-5748045.html). The 'Transitions' part begins at page 3, let me know if you found something.

i second that. i just read the transitions part and it says nothing about consumer lines being the first to go intel. listen, there is no way in hell the ibooks will go intel before the powerbooks because that would basically mean that the ibooks would be BETTER than the powerbooks for a period of time. not JUST AS GOOD but BETTER than the powerbooks. that can't happen. the powerbooks are struggling as it is, they need a boost. trust me, the powerbooks will almost definitely be the first to go intel, IMO.

[zelmo]

We've gone through it before. Steve never said consumer lines would go first.
It stands to reason that those lines which cannot, for whatever reason, run G5 processors will move to Intel first. To me, that's the iBook, PowerBook, and the Mac mini. Who knows if the eMac will even make it as a product.

PowerBook is the logical choice to go first. People are screaming (for the past two years) for some power in the PB line. No way they'll move the iBook to Intel first and leap frog it beyond the PB. Suicide to do that.

MWSF '06 - Intel PB announced, release date late Feb, shipping in qty that matters by end of March
WWDC '06 - iBook goes Intel, shipping in August
MWSF '07 - Mac mini goes Intel., shipping immediately eMac????dead or what?
WWDC '07 - Power Macs, dualcore Dual Intel baby!, shipping by end of July
Paris '07 - iMac goes Intel, buy one today

No idea where the Xserve stands in this, maybe with Power Macs but maybe a separate event? Steve did say they expect to have all moving to Intel by end of '07, though.

[weldon]

I think the timing is going to be tied to Intel's ability to produce Yonah processors for the PowerBooks, 65nm Pentium M's for the iBook, mini, and iMac and dual-core Xeons for the PowerMac.

That would make for a very simple lineup using three CPU families and maintain a single-core, dual-core difference between the Power* and i* lineups. The Xeon would allow for multi-processor configs in the PowerMac line.

Yonah for powerbooks
Pentium M for iBook, mini, and iMac
Xeon (2006 dual-core) for PowerMac

[MacSA]

So what do you all think - when each computer moves over to intel will we see a BIG improvement in all specs? Or an intel processor with the lowest spec graphics card and just enough memeory to get by.

[FredAkbar]

So what do you all think - when each computer moves over to intel will we see a BIG improvement in all specs? Or an intel processor with the lowest spec graphics card and just enough memeory to get by.
I think it'll basically be like it is now. The PowerMacs have always had the fastest possible processor, because that's how they're marketed and that's the whole point of them. Things like the Mac mini would have lower-end processors, even maybe a *shudder* Celeron (please, Apple, no...).

As for RAM, it will stay at 512 MB, as every Mac (besides the forsaken eMac's low-end model) has gone to 512 already and they wouldn't bump it back down to 256.

And thank you so much to all the people who said that Steve never said that consumer Macs could be first. I wasn't sure how everyone "knew" that, and as I watch every keynote with great interest, I didn't think Steve could've mentioned it without me knowing.

edit: about the RAM, that reminds me: will RAM for today's Macs work with Intel Macs? There isn't some special kind of "Mac RAM," is there?

[Xephian]

I think it'll basically be like it is now. The PowerMacs have always had the fastest possible processor, because that's how they're marketed and that's the whole point of them. Things like the Mac mini would have lower-end processors, even maybe a *shudder* Celeron (please, Apple, no...).

As for RAM, it will stay at 512 MB, as every Mac (besides the forsaken eMac's low-end model) has gone to 512 already and they wouldn't bump it back down to 256.

And thank you so much to all the people who said that Steve never said that consumer Macs could be first. I wasn't sure how everyone "knew" that, and as I watch every keynote with great interest, I didn't think Steve could've mentioned it without me knowing.

edit: about the RAM, that reminds me: will RAM for today's Macs work with Intel Macs? There isn't some special kind of "Mac RAM," is there?
I'm sure the same RAM will work just like it works with PC's. Most likely the new Intel Macs will use DDR2 or DDR3 with PCI-E.

[Panoctopi]

So what do you all think - when each computer moves over to intel will we see a BIG improvement in all specs? Or an intel processor with the lowest spec graphics card and just enough memeory to get by.
I would hope that apple would fully attempt to capitalize in this unique opportunity to introduce something really special. Anticipation and curiosity, within and beyond the mac community, will have been building for months, so all eyes will be on apple (much like tiger), so this would be a perfect a perfect occasion to make a big splash, i.e new form factors, better graphic cards, better screens, etc... this would be more than sufficient to recuperate any lost sales due to 'osborne effect' (if this really ends up happening).

[Count De Bodys]

I have been buying Mac's for a few years and if you think the Intel chip will come out in a low end or mid range product first you are fooling yourself. Apple always releases the new hardware in a fully stacked mac. So I predict the first Intel will be in mini tower with superdrive, what ever top end V card they are pushing, a big hard drive, lotsa ram and PCI slots, pre installed bluetooth and airport, Gigabit Ethernet plus both optical digital and analog audio input and output jacks, firewire, USB and too little RAM with no flexibility on configuration. D

[Tamer Brad]

I have been buying Mac's for a few years and if you think the Intel chip will come out in a low end or mid range product first you are fooling yourself. Apple always releases the new hardware in a fully stacked mac. So I predict the first Intel will be in mini tower with superdrive, what ever top end V card they are pushing, a big hard drive, lotsa ram and PCI slots, pre installed bluetooth and airport, Gigabit Ethernet plus both optical digital and analog audio input and output jacks, firewire, USB and too little RAM with no flexibility on configuration. D

You're completely right. The PowerMac needs an Intel much worse than the PB and iBook do. NOBODY buys those things.

[mklos]

You're completely right. The PowerMac needs an Intel much worse than the PB and iBook do. NOBODY buys those things.

I hope you're kidding! PowerBooks almost out sell PowerMacs 2 to 1 every quarter regardless of it not having a G5 in it.

Were talking like 120,000 PowerMacs or less every quarter to around 200,000 PowerBooks.

[Tamer Brad]

I hope you're kidding! PowerBooks almost out sell PowerMacs 2 to 1 every quarter regardless of it not having a G5 in it.

Were talking like 120,000 PowerMacs or less every quarter to around 200,000 PowerBooks.

I was kidding :)

[Platform]

Yes they better come out very soon.............but what do you people think will happen at the Paris Expo.........just Intel talk :confused: :confused: