iPod II? [Archive] - MacRumors Forums

edesignuk

Nov 12, 2002, 07:15 AM

Originally posted by copperpipe
imagine if the ipod had a color screen and quicktime in there. 10 hours of movie time for your plane trip or backpacking trip or car ride (for the kids?) or whatever! Watching a movie on a small screen but with great audio would work just fine, and the space it takes up is truly amazing. Think about the small screen too, as far as compression goes. you could download a bunch of movies and mp3's onto a 20 gig drive and they still would look good on the small screen. One great product would get a whole lot better. Here's to hoping it's true!
Not quite so simple I don't think.
There is no way you'd get 10hr battery life if you were viewing movies, that colour screen would kill that battery quickly.
Also to have a decent backlight screen would mean a bigger enclosure.

BJNY

Nov 12, 2002, 07:18 AM

How would one copy a movie on DVD over to an iPod2?
I an see an iPod2 being used to store and view photos, though.

gandalf55

Nov 12, 2002, 07:19 AM

ipods aren't for watching video... i mean if i was serious about watching movies in a portable fashion, i'd drop $500 on a portable dvd player. much larger screen, controls, etc.

color screen wouldn't do much unless somehow Apple releases new apps...

wrylachlan

Nov 12, 2002, 07:33 AM

If they come out with a color screen then they update iPhoto to sync with the iPod so you can take your pictures with you.

G4scott

Nov 12, 2002, 07:35 AM

Apple WON'T use the iPod to view movies or anything like that. If they were to make a device to do something like that, it would be completely different from the current iPod. The current iPod works as a MP3 player and a portable hard drive, and not much else. The addresses and calendars on it are sometimes convenient, but there is only so much you can do with a device with a small screen, 5 buttons, and a scroll wheel...

Now, what would be interesting, is if new (or even the old) iPods supported sound in/out through the firewire port with special digital audio devices. It would be kinda cool... You'd have top quality sound, and with a 20gb HD, you could record plenty of it. Maybe even allow multi-channel audio. OK, now I'm dreaming, but dreaming never hurt anyone seriously...

Mr. Anderson

Nov 12, 2002, 07:37 AM

Originally posted by wrylachlan
If they come out with a color screen then they update iPhoto to sync with the iPod so you can take your pictures with you.

exactly - but go even further, make it able to store all types of files and display them. I imagine you could even see word documents, email, pdf files....its all a matter of what they do with the iPod OS.

I'm still a little sceptical at this point.

D

Foocha

Nov 12, 2002, 07:49 AM

I have always thought that it was significant that Apple chose to call this line "iPod" a generic name rather than "iPlayer" a music specific name. I think it was always Apple's intention that this line would eventually grow to support other iApps in addition to iTunes. Integration with iPhoto seems a logical next step.

If Apple launches a Tivo-style personal video recorder iApp for Mac, then I believe integration with iPod would be a really killer app - take your favourite TV shows with you where ever you go.

BTW - it has been possible for a long time to rip DVDs onto your Mac.

aasmund

Nov 12, 2002, 07:58 AM

I think definitely they will make an iPhoto version which you can connect to your digital camera so that you can store your images when on a trip, additionally I think they will make it possible to view the images on a tv screen. if they can find a decent video-decoding chip that can do mpeg 2/4 w/o consuming heaps of power that would be added too. Same goes for colour screen. Albeit I am doubtfull that such technology exist, at the very least they would have to make it much more powersaving, i.e. automatically turn off screen after 5 secs if not in use etc. Sooner or later, though, that will be the features, imho. I also never understood why they made a separate pc and mac version.

robguz

Nov 12, 2002, 08:07 AM

I have a much better idea. How about an ipod where the battery doesn't totally drain after having it turned off an unused for a few days? Now that would be progress. My ipod 10GB new model is totally unpredictable. Sometimes it holds a charge. Sometimes I'll go to use it after a few days and it's totally dead. I have updated tot he latest software, and tried every trick I have found on the countless Apple discussion boards where many people are having the same problem! It's nuts that Apple had let this slide so long and it's clear that all the glowing reviews are not based on using the thing for more than a couple days at most.

thinmann

Nov 12, 2002, 08:20 AM

what aboout a radio.......sometimes you just need the radio.....

pcp_ip

Nov 12, 2002, 08:55 AM

does the UI on this (http://www.neurosaudio.com/) look kinda familar?

built in fm stereo transmitter (a la http://www.drbott.com/prod/db.lasso?code=5403-SFMX )

builtin FM tuner.

Recording to MP3 format from internal microphone, FM tuner, and line input.

FM song "fingerprinting"

:D

woodsey

Nov 12, 2002, 09:29 AM

This thing is definatly the biggest rip off of the iPod I've seen.

Suprises me that it wasnt made by Micro$oft!

http://www.neurosaudio.com/store/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=DigitalInnovationsCatalog&category%5Fname=Neuros+Players&product%5Fid=4010200&cookie%5Ftest=1

McFreggle

Nov 12, 2002, 09:36 AM

Originally posted by woodsey
[B]This thing is definatly the biggest rip off of the iPod I've seen.
Yeah, but the size of it is hilarious.

k.

Shrek

Nov 12, 2002, 10:19 AM

Good. I hope that it will be able to play AAC audio. :D

MacBandit

Nov 12, 2002, 10:28 AM

Originally posted by edesignuk

Not quite so simple I don't think.
There is no way you'd get 10hr battery life if you were viewing movies, that colour screen would kill that battery quickly.
Also to have a decent backlight screen would mean a bigger enclosure.

Why would a color screen use more battery? They didn't say that it would also have a back light. The Game Boy Advance has a color screen and no back light.

iwantanewmac

Nov 12, 2002, 10:49 AM

Originally posted by woodsey
This thing is definatly the biggest rip off of the iPod I've seen.

Suprises me that it wasnt made by Micro$oft!

http://www.neurosaudio.com/store/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=DigitalInnovationsCatalog&category%5Fname=Neuros+Players&product%5Fid=4010200&cookie%5Ftest=1

LOL! yeah and it has an USB port only....
transfering 20 GB is going to be a drag!
I love the firewire port on the ipod.
In fact I love the ipod.....,
only problem is it won't cherge that good anymore....wich is quite annoying.
And no1 has been able to solve it.
SOme say it's a bad battery and some say it's worn firewire connectors...who knows.
But it's still better than that piece of crap.

MacBandit

Nov 12, 2002, 10:56 AM

Originally posted by iwantanewmac

LOL! yeah and it has an USB port only....
transfering 20 GB is going to be a drag!
I love the firewire port on the ipod.
In fact I love the ipod.....,
only problem is it won't cherge that good anymore....wich is quite annoying.
And no1 has been able to solve it.
SOme say it's a bad battery and some say it's worn firewire connectors...who knows.
But it's still better than that piece of crap.

Giving an average throuput of 1.2MB/s (This actually may be high). It will take nearly 5 hours to copy your music over. That means you hook it up and go to bead and hopefully you didn't mess anything up or windows doesn't crash in the mean time.

cubist

Nov 12, 2002, 10:58 AM

No rechargable batteries last forever.:( There are a lot of dead palm IIIs and palm Vs out there.:(

lazyrighteye

Nov 12, 2002, 11:13 AM

Hey G4Scott, I share your same dream brother. Have you seen this?
http://www.nomadworld.com/products/Jukebox3

Background: I record a lot of live, stereo audio via my iBook/500 (in conjunction with a Roland UA-30, Peak LE (48 kHz) or Pro Tools Free (44.1 kHz), and a S/PDIF cable, usually receiving my digi stereo signal via a Tascam DA-P1). A typical recording session consists of about 2, 1.5 hour sets of music. This rig runs pretty well, but there are some real problem areas, namely battery life.
In OS 9.2.2, I can only get about 3 hours per battery. I have never once seen the bait-and-switch "5 hour battery life" claim from Apple's slickery marketing folks. Not even close (I can just barily watch a full length DVD). Regardless, I can safely get one set per battery, simply switching batteries at the set break. No biggie.
But in 10.2.2, I have yet to see even a 1.5 hour battery life (yes, these are processor intensive tasks, OS X runs hotter, asking the G3 chip to run X is asking for trouble, blah, blah, blah). This is very problematic when in the field (unable to run X in the field - bummer), and just not acceptable.

Ok, all of that was to set up: A live audio recording cohort uses a Jukebox 3 (see above link). He generally connects to the RCA OUT of my Roland UA-30, and records directly to uncompressed .wav files. Very sick. Very portable. Very cool. He then has the options of taking the recording back to his PC and either dumping it in and burning an audio disc, or converting the .wav file > mp3. He also has, out of the box, 11 hours of record time - with an extra slot for an additional 11 hour battery! Nuts!
While the Jukebox is larger than the iPod (a tad smaller than a portable CD player, which is still very portable), feature for feature it whips the iPod.

As an owner of the original 5G iPod (which I still enjoy daily), I have hoped Apple would release a record enabled iPod.
With Apple's acquisition of Logic, surely a 2 track recording iApp is on the way (iMix I'll call it), integrating seamlessly with iTunes and iMovie - with the eventual holy grail multi track audio app (Mix Master Pro I'll call it) that works in tandem with Final Cut Pro (whoa, if this were to become a reality, ANYTHING created for film or audio, on ANY level [pro/novice] would be done on Macs - woo hoo!).

Now with all of that said, surely iMix could be incorporated into the iPod, in addition to either an audio IN port (requiring a complete hardware redesign, which seems costly and unlikely), or some slick firewire dongle that would connect the iPod's firewire port to (ideally for maintaining a digi signal, and avoiding a software based A/D converter) a S/PDIF or optical connection, or even RCA or 1/8" connections (software based A/D converter required). Even at only 8 hour battery life, that's still better than 1.5 on my iBook.

I think this baby would be a hit, on many different levels, in many different applications, to many differnt people.

Big, fat, grin.

RBMaraman

Nov 12, 2002, 11:18 AM

Originally posted by MacBandit
Why would a color screen use more battery? They didn't say that it would also have a back light. The Game Boy Advance has a color screen and no back light.

It's just like a videocamera. It you use the color LCD screen, you lose a ton of the battery life. if you use the black and white viewfinder, you keep the battery at a much higher charge. Color screens use much more battery power, mainly because a higher power source is required to convert an image to color. The gameboy advance is different because it pulls its power source from Duracell type batteries that function differently than lithium-ion batteries. This is really a coincidence, because in my film class today, we talked about battery life of screens in black and white and color.

OneTraveler

Nov 12, 2002, 11:23 AM

Originally posted by aasmund
I think definitely they will make an iPhoto version which you can connect to your digital camera so that you can store your images when on a trip...

I think that it would be great to download my pictures directly from my digital camera into my iPod! I get tired of replacing flash cards all the time....and I always seem to fill them up right before the "great shot" is present. I would be pleased with simple storage...I could even live without seeing them on screen (which would need a much better res for that anyway).

Another possible hint that the iPod be a 'changin is the fact that Apple has lowered the price of engraving on the Pods to $20...down from $49. This promotion runs till Jan. 7 (Macworld). Now, cheap engraving will not make me run out and buy a new Pod, but for some it may just make the perfect Holiday gift and help clear out Apple's inventory.

etoiles

Nov 12, 2002, 11:25 AM

Originally posted by copperpipe
Watching a movie on a small screen but with great audio would work just fine, and the space it takes up is truly amazing.

...subtitles will be kind of hard to read:D

DrGruv1

Nov 12, 2002, 11:26 AM

I hope they consider this, this is a great idea - very useful.

Hey G4Scott, I share your same dream brother. Have you seen this?
http://www.nomadworld.com/products/Jukebox3

Background: I record a lot of live, stereo audio via my iBook/500 (in conjunction with a Roland UA-30, Peak LE (48 kHz) or Pro Tools Free (44.1 kHz), and a S/PDIF cable, usually receiving my digi stereo signal via a Tascam DA-P1). A typical recording session consists of about 2, 1.5 hour sets of music. This rig runs pretty well, but there are some real problem areas, namely battery life.
In OS 9.2.2, I can only get about 3 hours per battery. I have never once seen the bait-and-switch "5 hour battery life" claim from Apple's slickery marketing folks. Not even close (I can just barily watch a full length DVD). Regardless, I can safely get one set per battery, simply switching batteries at the set break. No biggie.
But in 10.2.2, I have yet to see even a 1.5 hour battery life (yes, these are processor intensive tasks, OS X runs hotter, asking the G3 chip to run X is asking for trouble, blah, blah, blah). This is very problematic when in the field (unable to run X in the field - bummer), and just not acceptable.

Ok, all of that was to set up: A live audio recording cohort uses a Jukebox 3 (see above link). He generally connects to the RCA OUT of my Roland UA-30, and records directly to uncompressed .wav files. Very sick. Very portable. Very cool. He then has the options of taking the recording back to his PC and either dumping it in and burning an audio disc, or converting the .wav file > mp3. He also has, out of the box, 11 hours of record time - with an extra slot for an additional 11 hour battery! Nuts!
While the Jukebox is larger than the iPod (a tad smaller than a portable CD player, which is still very portable), feature for feature it whips the iPod.

As an owner of the original 5G iPod (which I still enjoy daily), I have hoped Apple would release a record enabled iPod.
With Apple's acquisition of Logic, surely a 2 track recording iApp is on the way (iMix I'll call it), integrating seamlessly with iTunes and iMovie - with the eventual holy grail multi track audio app (Mix Master Pro I'll call it) that works in tandem with Final Cut Pro (whoa, if this were to become a reality, ANYTHING created for film or audio, on ANY level [pro/novice] would be done on Macs - woo hoo!).

Now with all of that said, surely iMix could be incorporated into the iPod, in addition to either an audio IN port (requiring a complete hardware redesign, which seems costly and unlikely), or some slick firewire dongle that would connect the iPod's firewire port to (ideally for maintaining a digi signal, and avoiding a software based A/D converter) a S/PDIF or optical connection, or even RCA or 1/8" connections (software based A/D converter required). Even at only 8 hour battery life, that's still better than 1.5 on my iBook.

I think this baby would be a hit, on many different levels, in many different applications, to many differnt people.

Big, fat, grin.

Last edited by lazyrighteye on 11-12-2002 at 05:20 PM

JtheLemur

Nov 12, 2002, 11:39 AM

They didn't say that it would also have a back light. The Game Boy Advance has a color screen and no back light.

And as much as I love my GBA, it SUCKS when you have anything but the best light. I threw in an AfterBurner (www.tritonlabs.com), and while it sucks baterries a BIT quicker, I can play anytime anyWHERE regardless of lighting conditions. w00t! =D

Padrote

Nov 12, 2002, 11:59 AM

I like the idea of the iPod as a mini recorder, where you will be able to download TV shows and movies that you have recorded in your hard drive. That technology is definitely worth the $500 or more that an iPod is priced around. There is really no need to have a color screen unless you can view pictures or mpegs on an iPod. I can't wait.

edesignuk

Nov 12, 2002, 12:00 PM

Originally posted by MacBandit

Why would a color screen use more battery? They didn't say that it would also have a back light. The Game Boy Advance has a color screen and no back light.
I was talking more about the backlight draining the battery.
And regarding the GBA's screen, can you honestly tell me you would want to watch a movie on such a terrible, unlight screen such as that?
What it would need is a screen more the quality of the old Sega GameGear, which if you remember took loads of batteries which died instantly!

Somebody

Nov 12, 2002, 12:12 PM

Another reason that watching movies will suck down iPod battery life: Even with the tiny display and a compact compression algorithm like MPEG4, movies require a much higher bitrate than music. This means that the hard drive will have to spend a lot more time spinning.

tgrundke

Nov 12, 2002, 12:17 PM

As far as the timeframe is concerned, I'm skeptical. However, I definitely see Apple introducing a color model that will permit iPhoto integration so you may display photos on the iPod screen.

I would also anticipate the next models (and perhaps the current ones will be capable of this) to incorporate iSynch and iCal coordination. Down the road I see Apple introducing Bluetooth into the iPod as well.

All interesting speculation, and backlighting/batter use/size issues aside, I think these are pretty logical 'roadmaps' we can expect over the next 12-18 months.

Of course, this looks more and more like the fabled Apple PDA or "iWalk" or "iPhone" are coming down the pipe. I don't think Apple will ever release these products on their own, but I will put good money on Apple developing the technology and design for Sony/Ericcson/Panasonic products down the road.

CRMarvin42

Nov 12, 2002, 12:45 PM

You might be onto something tgrudke. As foocha pointed out earlier, the iPod name leads me to believe that apple is going to find as many ways to interact the iPod with the iApps as possible.

Also their have been rumors concerning bluetooth integration into the computers to go along with bluetooth support in the os. it's just possible that in 2 years time his royal Jobsness will declare cables dead like he did the CRT. bluetooth in everything, and a unique device like the iPod to wrap everything together will make Macs that much more appealing.

jettredmont

Nov 12, 2002, 01:05 PM

Originally posted by RBMaraman

It's just like a videocamera. It you use the color LCD screen, you lose a ton of the battery life. if you use the black and white viewfinder, you keep the battery at a much higher charge. Color screens use much more battery power, mainly because a higher power source is required to convert an image to color. The gameboy advance is different because it pulls its power source from Duracell type batteries that function differently than lithium-ion batteries. This is really a coincidence, because in my film class today, we talked about battery life of screens in black and white and color.

Quite correct, although the LCD screen vs viewfinder difference is not quite the same thing (the main power consumption differences are due to the amount of backlighting required for the viewfinder vs 2.5" screen; viewfinders tend to be grayscale because it is easier/cheaper to make a small grayscale LCD than a small color LCD due to the fact that a color LCD has triple the number of picture elements for any resolution as the grayscale).

In a Color LCD there are three times as many little sub-pixels as there are in a similar-resolution B/W LCD. Each sub-pixel takes a certain amount of energy and supporting circuitry to maintain its state; three independant elements in a certain area take more energy than one larger element covering the entire area. Not to mention the fact that these are multiple-state sub-pixels instead of single-state on/off sub-pixels (assuming you want more than an 8-color screen); multiple-state pixels consume more power than simple on/off pixels.

Now, for a laptop monitor, the case more of us will be familiar with, the energy required by the screen pixels is completely drowned out by the energy required to keep the backlight running, so you don't see an appreciable difference between a color TFT and a grayscale screen (note: grayscales tend to use a different technology than color screens, so the power requirements do differ, but if using the same technology the differences are minor).

Without the backlight power, the difference between a reflective-lighted black and white and full-color screen is significant.

The question is: how much of the iPod's current power consumption goes to the screen? I would think, without hard numbers, that the passive screen would take much less energy than spinning up the HD or even processing the MP3's. In this case, even a full-color passive screen would not increase the power consumption enough to have a noticeable effect on overall battery life.

Of course, if you went to a color backlit screen, you are talking a relatively huge power drain compared to the B/W screen today. That would, I suspect, chop 25-50% off the overall battery life (basing this on the fact that a large laptop screen uses the same amount of power as a P3-Mobile chip; the screen size on the iPod is much smaller, but the little CPU should also take up much less power than a P3-M).

Future Man

Nov 12, 2002, 01:15 PM

Originally posted by arn
not sure the point of a color screen....

arn

One possibility for a color screen that no one has mentioned is some sort of camera attachment that fits on to the top of the ipod and plugs into the firewire port. It could have both still and webcam capabilities.... It sounds far out but a few major cell phone manufactures, Motorola among them, are doing the exact same thing with their new and existing phones.

20gigs of pic storage, 4-hour battery life in stand alone camera mode, and a $200 price tag would make something like that pretty hot.

F.M.

P.S. I have a 10gig solid-state scroll ipod and the latest firmware really does throw battery life off. This is a major bug that needs to be addressed by apple as soon as possible.

bidge

Nov 12, 2002, 01:50 PM

Originally posted by Somebody
Another reason that watching movies will suck down iPod battery life: Even with the tiny display and a compact compression algorithm like MPEG4, movies require a much higher bitrate than music. This means that the hard drive will have to spend a lot more time spinning.

If they were going to have it for playing movies it would be easy enough to shove in 64 MB or 128MB of solid state memory

pretentious

Nov 12, 2002, 01:55 PM

I think it would be fairly easy to implement a color screen and camera on to the iPod, think about it, Phones and even the GBA has this, why not the iPod.

This would be a great marketing move on Apple's part, those camera doggles are apparently great sellers threw out Japan and Apple seems to be really moving for that share of the market, and it would ward off the me too mp3 players that was mentioned before are just now coming out.

This would also be a definite cool factor esp. w/ it syncing up to iPhoto, and you know how Apple loves the cool factor, battery withstanding. The only question is, how would it work with the Windows version?

wrylachlan

Nov 12, 2002, 02:09 PM

Before the iPod gets a camera of its own, shouldn't it get a usb connector so it can be used to store images from existing cameras? I mean this seems to be a no-brainer. And don't start with the firewire is better than usb so usb sucks rant either. I agree. Firewire is better than usb. But almost all consumer digital cameras use usb, therefore...

beatle888

Nov 12, 2002, 02:16 PM

Originally posted by dukestreet
I imagine you could even see word documents, email, pdf files....its all a matter of what they do with the iPod OS.

I'm still a little sceptical at this point.

D

yea but it would be hell to view a word
document on an ipod.

jbm

Nov 12, 2002, 02:22 PM

My question is:
Will it have support for ogg-vorbis now that an integer based decoder is available?

adamcoop

Nov 12, 2002, 02:24 PM

Originally posted by Foocha
I have always thought that it was significant that Apple chose to call this line "iPod" a generic name rather than "iPlayer" a music specific name...

iPod - sounds like Bipod - Seems like just a witty take on 'Walkman'. :D

edesignuk

Nov 12, 2002, 02:24 PM

Originally posted by wrylachlan
Before the iPod gets a camera of its own, shouldn't it get a usb connector so it can be used to store images from existing cameras? I mean this seems to be a no-brainer. And don't start with the firewire is better than usb so usb sucks rant either. I agree. Firewire is better than usb. But almost all consumer digital cameras use usb, therefore...
But what would be the point? Wether or not FireWire is better than USB is irrelevent (which it is!), the point is why do you say it would need USB just because other digital cameras do? It has FireWire as do all Macs and a quickly growing amount of PC's, I just don't understand your thinking :confused:
If it has FireWire it doesn't need USB.
...not that I believe for one minite that the iPod would ever be made into a digital camera anyway.

Natron

Nov 12, 2002, 02:25 PM

I've read that the Gameboy Advance will be getting a backlit screen next year. Makes me wonder if they have improved the current battery life or if they are changing battery types, hopefully rechargable.

As for a color iPod, I'm kind of in between. I would like to see the iPod as a device for all the iApps, but I'm not sure we'll see a color screen, at least not yet. The color screen would drain the battery faster, and the screen would probably need to be bigger to be very useful. But I think 2 of the big selling points for the iPod is it's small size and good battery life. Adding a bigger and/or color screen would probably affect both of those.

However, I would like to have a device for outputing movies and photos too that I could easily hook up to a TV and show family or friends. Streaming movies or songs to a TV or stereo using Bluetooth could be very nice.

I think this is all just a restart to the old iWalk/Apple PDA rumors, and am not expecting anything.

You have to think about the usefulness of it. Now if you take the highend iPods to color screens and keep the 10 gig at black and white, it could provide for some variety, but who is going to buy a color iPod, especially since they would probably be in the $600 range? iPods appeal to the general audience, and I think the only people that will spend the money on an iPod for movies and photos would be the big time "gadget people", and not the iPods core target audience.

DrGruv1:
I am of the same mind about an audio app. I generally use Peak with FCP, but would really like to see an audio app from Apple that could seamlessly integrate with Final Cut Pro and DVD Studio Pro (when using surround sound). The big application for audio is Pro Tools, and while it would be foolish for Apple to try and compete, an audio app made for use with Final Cut Pro and DVD Studio Pro could work. If you want higher end and more advanced audio or major hardware, go to Pro Tools.

-Nate

iwantanewmac

Nov 12, 2002, 02:50 PM

Originally posted by cubist
No rechargable batteries last forever.:( There are a lot of dead palm IIIs and palm Vs out there.:(

Well... you should be able to get a new battery for your ipod online somewhere. Buy it if you sure it is the battery and not the firewire port that malfunctions sometimes. (wich i think is the problem on my ipod).
It's not THAT difficult to open up the ipod and change the battery yourself.
Actually...I'm going to try it myself if it stops playing after the 4th song for the 20th time this week.

wrylachlan

Nov 12, 2002, 02:58 PM

Originally posted by edesignuk

But what would be the point? Wether or not FireWire is better than USB is irrelevent (which it is!), the point is why do you say it would need USB just because other digital cameras do? It has FireWire as do all Macs and a quickly growing amount of PC's, I just don't understand your thinking :confused:
If it has FireWire it doesn't need USB.
...not that I believe for one minite that the iPod would ever be made into a digital camera anyway.

You didn't get my point at all. Not to connect to the iMac. The iPod already has firewire for that. I'm talking about connecting your iPod to your camera in the field to offload photos. If I'm on a vacation to mexico I can easily fill my camera's memory. Which means I either need to bring multiple memory cards or a laptop to offload the pics and take more. But if I could bring along an iPod with usb and the right software... do you see where I'm going with this?

And with a color screen on the iPod you could manage the photos in the field, deleting the ones you hate, maybe even keywording them for iPhoto as you go (of course this would require some form of text entry on an iPod which I think is doubtful.)

beez7777

Nov 12, 2002, 02:58 PM

a color screen would be cool, i guess. but i'd much rather see a nice little price drop by maybe a hundred dollars or so. i want an iPod, but $400 (10 gig) is just so much money.

edesignuk

Nov 12, 2002, 03:01 PM

Originally posted by wrylachlan

You didn't get my point at all. Not to connect to the iMac. The iPod already has firewire for that. I'm talking about connecting your iPod to your camera in the field to offload photos. If I'm on a vacation to mexico I can easily fill my camera's memory. Which means I either need to bring multiple memory cards or a laptop to offload the pics and take more. But if I could bring along an iPod with usb and the right software... do you see where I'm going with this?

And with a color screen on the iPod you could manage the photos in the field, deleting the ones you hate, maybe even keywording them for iPhoto as you go (of course this would require some form of text entry on an iPod which I think is doubtful.)
Sorry, now I see what you mean....got the wrong end of the stick :rolleyes:

zoid

Nov 12, 2002, 03:25 PM

A fuel cell powered pod or laptop first out of the gate by Apple would be truly innovative. Maybe then enough power wouuld be available to have a headset that you watched a movie in-like the Sony one.

bignumbers

Nov 12, 2002, 03:33 PM

If a future iPod can do photo storage/display, Apple would have a hit on their hands if it provided some form of compatibility for memory (CF/SD/etc) cards. An external adapter is fine; some adapters are FW already.

Some of the larger pro digital cameras need more storage than the 1GB cards out there now. I'd love to remove my 1GB card from my Canon 11MP SLR (the one I have in my dreams), upload the photos into my iPod for storage, then reuse the card in the camera.

Such devices already exist, but are single-purpose thus aren't as justifiable as a multipurpose iPod.

MacBandit

Nov 12, 2002, 05:01 PM

Originally posted by edesignuk

I was talking more about the backlight draining the battery.
And regarding the GBA's screen, can you honestly tell me you would want to watch a movie on such a terrible, unlight screen such as that?
What it would need is a screen more the quality of the old Sega GameGear, which if you remember took loads of batteries which died instantly!

I have a Sega GameGear and yes I do remember it's battery appetite. It's really funny that almost 10 years ago Sega had a better portable then the brand new GBA. Better screen better graphics.

To those pointing out the backlight for the GBA thank you but I already new about it.

MacBandit

Nov 12, 2002, 05:05 PM

Ervino

Nov 12, 2002, 05:05 PM

Originally posted by bignumbers
If a future iPod can do photo storage/display, Apple would have a hit on their hands if it provided some form of compatibility for memory (CF/SD/etc) cards. An external adapter is fine; some adapters are FW already.

Some of the larger pro digital cameras need more storage than the 1GB cards out there now. I'd love to remove my 1GB card from my Canon 11MP SLR (the one I have in my dreams), upload the photos into my iPod for storage, then reuse the card in the camera.

Such devices already exist, but are single-purpose thus aren't as justifiable as a multipurpose iPod.

Such device (with color screen, movie playing and recording capabilities, etc.) exist NOW, and it is called the Archos MultiMedia JukeBox.

http://www.archos.com

iPod? No, thanks...:p

jettredmont

Nov 12, 2002, 05:10 PM

Originally posted by MacBandit

Why would it take more power to switch a color pixel on or off rather then a black one.

Because each color pixel is three independant switches (R,G,B) instead of one.

For most applications, the additional power to manage color versus grayscale is not noticable, however, as other components take up much more power.

MacBandit

Nov 12, 2002, 05:20 PM

Originally posted by jettredmont

Because each color pixel is three independant switches (R,G,B) instead of one.

For most applications, the additional power to manage color versus grayscale is not noticable, however, as other components take up much more power.

Seems that in a way you are just prooving my point. The other components mainly being that a color screen really needs a back light.

jettredmont

Nov 12, 2002, 06:05 PM

Originally posted by MacBandit

Seems that in a way you are just prooving my point. The other components mainly being that a color screen really needs a back light.

Yes, if your point is that a (non-backlit) color screen won't drain the battery much faster than the current screen (which, I believe, was your original point), you are correct, as the rest of the system takes more power (even without the backlight) than the LCD pixel grid.

However, on the narrow point of (paraphrasing) "why would a color pixel take more power to turn on/off than a grayscale pixel?", the answer is that the color pixel takes more energy because you are switching three small crystals, not one larger one, and switching three crystals takes more energy than switching one.

On the other hand, if the color screen really needs a (full-time) backlight to be useful, then there's no question that changing to a backlit color screen will dramatically reduce the battery life of the unit. Not because it is color, but because it is backlit.

Over Achiever

Nov 12, 2002, 09:20 PM

Hey,

First off, I would like to say that I don't have much time, so I haven't read the posts carefully. Hence I'll prob repeat what someone has said...

iPod 2 sounds very familiar. I've had an unreliable source (actually I have no idea how reliable he is) but he said:

*There will be a 40 GB iPod :confused:
*It will have a color screen ;)
*It will have a digi cam attachment/accessory, i'm guessing like the add-ons for the new phones out there
*I'll go out on a limb and say digi camcorder attachment as well, tho' he didn't think so, and I highly doubt it. :D

There was something else...you see he was discussing this with me a month or so ago and I thought he was just blowing hot-air. But just in case he was right, I'll pester some more out of him. Makes for good rumors!:D

mmmdreg

Nov 13, 2002, 02:09 AM

Originally posted by Shrek
Good. I hope that it will be able to play AAC audio. :D
me too..that could be seen as progress..

jefhatfield

Nov 13, 2002, 09:01 AM

Originally posted by arn
not sure the point of a color screen....

arn

probably the same idea of a color palm

it looks nice but is not that necessary for that type of item, but there are people who will think that it's cool with a color screen and go out and buy it

i just need to get into the 21st century and get firewire:D

Marvenp

Nov 13, 2002, 03:11 PM

Has anyone noticed that the downloadable (PDF) brochure of Nikon's D100 contains multiple pictures throughout of it connecting with the PowerBook and only the PowerBook. Could this be a shift in attitude of camera manufacturers to consider Apple consumers their main target?
http://www.nikon-image.com/eng/PDF/index_d100.htm

olsonbw

Nov 13, 2002, 04:38 PM

I'd like to see the ability to connect a USB keyboard to an iPod so that I can add/update/delete people and calendar events on the iPods. It would also be cool to be able to download pics from digital cameras to the iPod harddrive too even if you can display them on the iPod screen.

Over Achiever

Nov 13, 2002, 04:53 PM

Originally posted by Marvenp
Could this be a shift in attitude of camera manufacturers to consider Apple consumers their main target?
http://www.nikon-image.com/eng/PDF/index_d100.htm

[OFF TOPIC]I saw that the Olympus C-50 also shows it connected to a powerbook;)[/OFF TOPIC]

Xapplimatic

Nov 13, 2002, 06:47 PM

Originally posted by iwantanewmac
(...)In fact I love the ipod.....,
only problem is it won't cherge that good anymore....wich is quite annoying.
And no1 has been able to solve it.
SOme say it's a bad battery and some say it's worn firewire connectors...who knows.(...)

Actually, battery life on all iPods plummetted after installation of the 1.2 firmware... Did you ever notice that since it got its clock feature, it never *truly* turns off? It can't or it would lose track of the time.. there's no seperate battery/clock chip to track time, so it has to sit in a quasi-sleep mode which only turns off the display and HDD while it updates the clock and tracks appointments to alarm on and stuff... Hence the processor now always burns battery life.. so leave it on a full charge "off" for a week, turn it on, and it's almost dead.. Apple's fault. I want to revert firmware back to 1.1.. where can I find it??

Xapplimatic

Nov 13, 2002, 06:53 PM

MacBandit

Nov 13, 2002, 07:38 PM

Originally posted by Xapplimatic

Actually, battery life on all iPods plummetted after installation of the 1.2 firmware... Did you ever notice that since it got its clock feature, it never *truly* turns off? It can't or it would lose track of the time.. there's no seperate battery/clock chip to track time, so it has to sit in a quasi-sleep mode which only turns off the display and HDD while it updates the clock and tracks appointments to alarm on and stuff... Hence the processor now always burns battery life.. so leave it on a full charge "off" for a week, turn it on, and it's almost dead.. Apple's fault. I want to revert firmware back to 1.1.. where can I find it??

If you hold the play/pause button down for a couple seconds it will shut off and the battery will last a very long time. I've had one sitting for about 3 weeks now and it still has 2/3 of it's battery life left. This is with at most an hour useage on it.

BillBelamy

Nov 13, 2002, 08:37 PM

hey guys, check this out!

http://www.spymac.com/forums/?board=2;action=display;threadid=11791;start=new

MacBandit

Nov 13, 2002, 08:44 PM

Originally posted by BillBelamy
hey guys, check this out!

http://www.spymac.com/forums/?board=2;action=display;threadid=11791;start=new

Hey thanks that's very cool. I highly doubt that the price will be $999.99. That sounds like a generic price assigned to the item. Many stores do this until the official product and pricing is on hand.

User X

Nov 14, 2002, 11:02 AM

I think it would be sweet if they had a tv tuner attachment for the color lcd screen. And maybee some color mimi games. I know all this is getting away from the original purpose of the ipod but the ground work is there....why not go all they way.

big

Nov 14, 2002, 04:25 PM

new harddrive for the iPod? any way to replace it? and where to get it?

pepeleuepe

Nov 14, 2002, 05:28 PM

I think an FM modulator would be a nice addition to the iPod. This would allow it to be used with car stereos as well as home stereos very easily. I think I heard of some other mp3 players that have this and I know its very easy to add on to and mp3 player including the iPod, it would just be a nice feature, if not an option on the new iPod.

jettredmont

Nov 14, 2002, 05:45 PM

Originally posted by pepeleuepe
I think an FM modulator would be a nice addition to the iPod. This would allow it to be used with car stereos as well as home stereos very easily. I think I heard of some other mp3 players that have this and I know its very easy to add on to and mp3 player including the iPod, it would just be a nice feature, if not an option on the new iPod.

Dude! Add both the FM modulator and a microphone and we could have the much-anticipated iMrMicrophone!

Seriously, though, I don't think an FM modulator is a good thing as anything but an option. The quality through FM is sub-par, and add-on (just plug into your headphones jack) modulators are plentiful from other manufacturers. It adds no value in the area where Apple excels (ease of use and computing). And FM modulators are regulated and hence more expensive than they should be, so for the 90% of us who'd never use such an option, I say leave it off!

Over Achiever

Nov 14, 2002, 08:57 PM

I disagree. I think having an FM tuner would be awesome. But I really do agree with the microphone...after all, how hard could it be to implement? (It'd be great for me to record my class lectures...)

mmmdreg

Nov 15, 2002, 12:34 AM

Originally posted by big
new harddrive for the iPod? any way to replace it? and where to get it?

There's a fairly new mp3 player out (similar to ipod) which is basically a case and allows you to stick a harddrive in...I saw it in the most recent Macworld Australia.

Chimaera

Nov 15, 2002, 04:55 AM

Something that I saw in What hi-Fi the other day got me thinking about a possible solution to the color display issues (for watching movies/viewing pictures and stuff)

What I had in mind was keep the ipod as it is pasically, greyscale LCD and all, but incorperate a video out port (svideo/component/whatever) and then sell seperately a small screen - say 5" widescreen TFT with the appropriate connection - that way you'd only have to suffer the associated battery loss from colour display when you actually needed to use it, plus the system cost wouldn;t get oushed up too much more, and anyone that doesn;t want to use the colour screen doesn;t need to buy it.

This is purely conjuncture, but I think it could work, at least in theory :)

big

Nov 15, 2002, 08:56 AM

ok mmmdreg, but where do you get harddrives.... seeing that I could crack open my iPod....I want a 40 gig or 20 or 30...where could you get one?

jettredmont

Nov 15, 2002, 11:04 AM

Originally posted by big
ok mmmdreg, but where do you get harddrives.... seeing that I could crack open my iPod....I want a 40 gig or 20 or 30...where could you get one?

Last I heard, the raw drive from Toshiba was within a few US pennies of the corresponding new iPod from Apple (Apple gets a good volume discount which essentially pays for all the other cool bits of the iPod). In other words, it's just as cheap to just buy a whole new unit as to try and replace the HD ... this may change if other manufacturers start producing the itty-bitty drives en masse ...

big

Nov 15, 2002, 12:41 PM

yeah, I just did my research, that be true... which kinda bits. I blame Apple, but then I can see why they'd invest only in the 5gig first. I'm going to reinvest that space on my iPod, from 190 khz music files to 120 khz... I think, then I should have at least 3 or 4 more albums!

DavPeanut

Nov 15, 2002, 04:35 PM

Originally posted by gandalf55
ipods aren't for watching video... i mean if i was serious about watching movies in a portable fashion, i'd drop $500 on a portable dvd player. much larger screen, controls, etc.
Portable dvd players are at least $699, and thats for an 8 inch screen. If you want to really watch dvd's on the go, spend the 1300 and get an iBook. If you look on ebay, you can probably get an older one with a DVD player for $700. That way you get the larger screen and the computer capabilities for the same price.

big

Nov 15, 2002, 11:19 PM

ok, now how do you get an iPod to recognize mp4 files? They DO sound better than mp3's and are about half the size. seems great to me! if only I could get the iPod to "see" it as a recognizable file

mmmdreg

Nov 16, 2002, 03:47 AM

Originally posted by big
ok mmmdreg, but where do you get harddrives.... seeing that I could crack open my iPod....I want a 40 gig or 20 or 30...where could you get one?

sorry.. i meant mp3 player, not ipod...I've edited my original post...

robertjordanusa

Nov 20, 2002, 04:07 PM

Add recording and I will switch immediately from a Nomad Jukebox.

iwantanewmac

Nov 20, 2002, 08:12 PM

Originally posted by big
yeah, I just did my research, that be true... which kinda bits. I blame Apple, but then I can see why they'd invest only in the 5gig first. I'm going to reinvest that space on my iPod, from 190 khz music files to 120 khz... I think, then I should have at least 3 or 4 more albums!

it's 120 KB not KHZ.
:)
cd is 44.1 khz

jettredmont

Nov 20, 2002, 08:36 PM

Originally posted by iwantanewmac

I'm going to reinvest that space on my iPod, from 190 khz music files to 120 khz... I think, then I should have at least 3 or 4 more albums!

it's 120 KB not KHZ.
:)
cd is 44.1 khz

Being anal, it's kbps, kilo-bits-per-second. KB would be kilobytes, which is 8x as large. And these are usually running at a 44.1 kHz sample rate.

Being even more anal, 192 and 128kbps were probably meant originally.

big

Nov 20, 2002, 08:40 PM

what's an easy way (ie, songs masses) to lower the mhz for your iPod?

Spievy

Dec 30, 2002, 02:13 PM

Originally posted by arn
not sure the point of a color screen....

arn

Maybe the color screen will be used for an itune like effects when playing mp3s. You may possibly be able to view images from a digital camera, and store those images on the internal iPod HD, (that would be very useful). If this rumor is true I will be the first to fork over the credit card.:D

Zion Grail

Dec 30, 2002, 02:27 PM

How about this: A BlueTooth iPod with Rendezvous. That's right. An iPod that can talk to Macs wirelessly. But it doesn't stop there! What if it could talk to other iPods!? Music filesharing redefined.

OK, so I got the idea off The Register's article. So sue me. It's still an awesome idea. :D

Chomolungma

Dec 30, 2002, 04:41 PM

Originally posted by Zion Grail
How about this: A BlueTooth iPod with Rendezvous. That's right. An iPod that can talk to Macs wirelessly. But it doesn't stop there! What if it could talk to other iPods!? Music filesharing redefined.

OK, so I got the idea off The Register's article. So sue me. It's still an awesome idea. :D

I rather have USB 1.1. However, I do like to see how long it will take to transfer a 6 GB music library using bluetooth (just for kicks)!:D

Foocha

Dec 30, 2002, 05:03 PM

I can't see much benefit in a Bluetooth iPod - it really would be slow, and afterall, the speed of Firewire is one of its key selling points.

Zion Grail

Dec 30, 2002, 05:07 PM

Transfering a whole library isn't the idea - just one or two songs. Hypothetically, let's say you and four others with iPods are on a bus. Being able to listen to each others music would be awesome. One giant iPod made of five individual iPods. You could even keep to to streaming-only to keep Hilary Rosen at bay.

Awesome. Wireless.

sinbushar

Dec 30, 2002, 05:12 PM

umm...yeah..i skimmed the first page...workin on college apps *wish me luck*...but just thought the possibiliity of an apple branded phone...possibly gsm..that would be pretty amazing and it's not unbelievable...just my 2¢...aight...happy new year's everybody..

Foocha

Dec 30, 2002, 05:13 PM

Yeah, I read that idea in the Reg.

Whilst iPod may be the best selling MP3 player in Tokyo, making this idea a potential filer in the thronging commuter crowds of downtown Shinjuku, I can't see it working elsewhere.

I'm based in London, and I can just imagine the one time that someone gets on the same double-decker as me, they'll have Blue & New Kids on their iPod. Great ;)

Chomolungma

Dec 30, 2002, 05:24 PM

Originally posted by Zion Grail
Transfering a whole library isn't the idea - just one or two songs. Hypothetically, let's say you and four others with iPods are on a bus. Being able to listen to each others music would be awesome. One giant iPod made of five individual iPods. You could even keep to to streaming-only to keep Hilary Rosen at bay.

Awesome. Wireless.

I like the idea of stealing someone music at the airport or on the train. Sort of like raping without them knowing it!:D

I honestly think it is a brilliant idea, Zion Grail.:D

OutThere

Dec 30, 2002, 06:28 PM

among all of the wildly crazy ideas in here i might as well throw in mine:

why not have and iPod capable of playing video, but not have a color screen, have a video output of some sort and sell a clip on screen cheap to ppl who want to watch movies, and have the possiblity of choosing video capabitlities (MiPod??MoviPod?) or one with an audio input...MicPod??

hmmm...PocketAqua...an alternative to Pocket PeeCee???ya never know...

Zion Grail

Dec 30, 2002, 07:38 PM

Well, obviously we could allow users to make some music protected from that and other music not. That's easy. The broadcast feature could also simply be turned off. ;)

Still, it's like Kazaa on local iPods. Uber music sharing. Plus, it'd be awesome for local artists to help them promote their music. Take public transportation, spread your work. Coolness.

boobers

Dec 30, 2002, 09:54 PM

Originally posted by OutThere761
why not have and iPod capable of playing video, but not have a color screen, have a video output of some sort and sell a clip on screen cheap to ppl who want to watch movies

add the tivo idea but be able to connect it to the portable iTab's 8" screen or whatever..it would still need some other ports to connect to your average tv..but it sounds good in theory.

Jimong5

Dec 30, 2002, 10:57 PM

What about a Non Backlit color screen, but like with the current iPod an option to turn it on. how would that work out?

kiwi

Jan 4, 2003, 05:56 PM

I don't know why this is so difficult to believe. It is inevitable. Apple is actually taking way too long on this one and the "Tivo" thing too.

Archos has already been doing this for ages, although it plays Divx video. I'd much rather have MPEG 4 though. AV out is included for viewing on TV or listening on stereo if you don't like the LCD screen and headphones.

http://www.archos.com/

MacKid

Jan 6, 2003, 12:31 PM

Although some people think that a color screen for an iPod is useless because it spends most of its time in your pocket (and I can see your point, DVD on an iPod is just not logical), there are times when you are waiting for a plane or train or some other mode of transportation when you have nothing better to do than reflect upon the strange smell of the person next to you or play yet another game of BreakOut which gets stale after the first 2 games.

R0dan

Jan 6, 2003, 01:54 PM

I am in the market for an iPod. I have been putting off my purchanse until the MacWorld Expo. What I would personally like to see (if there is a new version) is a way to upload digital photos so I can delete a full SmartCard in the camera. I really don't care if the screen is color or not. I love using my digital camera but hate lugging along my Powerbook on extended travels just to upload photos. I realize JoBo and Minds@Work has this product, but it would sure be nice to have this feature in an iPod.

pyrex

Jan 11, 2003, 01:49 PM

Originally posted by edesignuk

Sorry, now I see what you mean....got the wrong end of the stick :rolleyes:

also maybe if they made a usb - firewire cable, just an idea, instead of adding a extra connector.

pyrex

Jan 11, 2003, 01:51 PM

Originally posted by MacBandit

I have a Sega GameGear and yes I do remember it's battery appetite. It's really funny that almost 10 years ago Sega had a better portable then the brand new GBA. Better screen better graphics.

To those pointing out the backlight for the GBA thank you but I already new about it.

with the batteries, why not get a li-poly battery, it is a lot better then li-ion, it is relatively new ( a few years), that is the high end for batteries in cell phones, and im surprised they dont use it for laptops yet, weird, but that would be able to handle a color screen and give MORE battery life.

melchior

Jan 11, 2003, 06:12 PM

ummmmmmmmm, ipod already uses a lithium polymer.

the new 17 PB uses a lithium-ion prismatic.

kainjow

Jan 12, 2003, 10:03 AM

Maybe they're going to have color for....driving directions (color maps?), viewing images and webpages (special version like for palms and cell phones), maybe for showing news and headlines, etc.

That's what I'm thinking (and hoping). Sorta like Pod2Go (http://www.kainjow.com/pod2go)

yosoyjay

Jan 12, 2003, 04:30 PM

Originally posted by edesignuk

Not quite so simple I don't think.
There is no way you'd get 10hr battery life if you were viewing movies, that colour screen would kill that battery quickly.
Also to have a decent backlight screen would mean a bigger enclosure.

I noticed on an other post that somebody wondered if they would use LCD or OLED if such a product was going to be released. If OLED technology has developed to the point where the refresh rates are acceptable for video, which I am unaware of, it would consume less battery power and would eliminate the need for a backlight, the biggest power drain. I know some OLCD screens are being used or are soon to be released in a few cellfones and digital camaras so I suppose that at least it is a possibility. Anybody know of any up-to-date info on OLED.