man, that gun ROCKS!

[Tymmz]

minigun (http://www.cartoonland.de/archiv/minigun/)

It's a german site, but you just have to click on:

"Download Server 1" or "Download Server 2".

Something like that on Discovery Channel???

[faintember]

Something like that on Discovery Channel???
Yep, leave it to me and the rest of america to have a gun like this on discovery channel, but then complain about violence on tv. lol

[Phat_Pat]

that is awesome

[shyataroo]

the only way it can be more phallic is if there were two ammo drums on either side.

[jdechko]

Yeah, I remember that episode. It was when they tried to make a Delorean into a hovercraft and failed. Then jesse used the minigun to blow it up. Good times.

[Mr. Anderson]

No one here remembers the original Predator? Tearing up the jungle with a handheld mini-gun :D

They are nuts - the mini gun canon on an A10 is even more impressive. I saw an Air Force film on the thing and it made swiss cheese of a tank.

D

[Tymmz]

There are so many ways to get rid of each other, AWESOME!

[Royal Pineapple]

No one here remembers the original Predator? Tearing up the jungle with a handheld mini-gun :D

They are nuts - the mini gun canon on an A10 is even more impressive. I saw an Air Force film on the thing and it made swiss cheese of a tank.

D

from http://world.guns.ru/machine/minigun-e.htm

In the year 1987 the movie "Predator" (starring A. Schwarznegger) hit the screens. One of the most impressive scenes was the one where the US Commandos, led by "Dutch" (Schwarznegger), attempted to fight back the alien Predator. One of Commandos was armed with the distinctive weapon, a 6-barreled rotary Minigun, fed from backpack ammo box. This gave the impression that the Miniguns can be used for infantry support. It must be noted, that in this movie a special, blank firing version of the Minigun was sued. The electric motor was powered via cable, hidden in the actor's pants, and the actor had to carry bulletproof vest and protective mask to avoid injuries from the fast and violently ejecting empty cases. Had this gun being fired using real ammunition, the actor would ended lying on his back, being forced off the legs by the violent recoil. The "backpack" ammo capacity, also, could be worth only several seconds of fire. lets calculate: 2 000 rounds of 5.56mm ammo will weight about 25 kg (55 lbs); 2 000 rounds of 7.62mm will weight about 2 times more, making such load almost impossible to carry on foots. yet this load of ammo will worth only 20 or so seconds of fire. Add some powerful batteries to power electrical drive of about 4KWt (4+ horse-power), and the bulk of the gun itself, and you'll see that even the strongest man won't be able to carry this load, less to fire it with any chance to hit, due to extremely powerful recoil.


reagarding the A-10's gun
http://www.gdatp.com/products/lethality/gau-8a/gau-8.htm
Gun Type Seven-Barrel, 30mm, Externally Powered Gatling Gun
Weight 620 Pounds (281 kg)
Rate of Fire Up to 4,200 Shots Per Minute
Dispersion 5 Milliradians Diameter, 80 Percent Circle
Muzzle Velocity 3,400 Feet (1,036m) Per Second
Average Recoil Force 10,000 Pounds (44.5 kN)
Drive System Hydraulic, Electric, Pneumatic
Feed System Linked or Linkless

[~Shard~]

No one here remembers the original Predator? Tearing up the jungle with a handheld mini-gun :D

They are nuts - the mini gun canon on an A10 is even more impressive. I saw an Air Force film on the thing and it made swiss cheese of a tank.

D

Yep, very impressive guns! As for the original Predator, that was probably my favorirte scene. Oh, the carnage - nothing like leveling an acre of rainforest with a gun! :cool:

[Tymmz]

...nothing like leveling an acre of rainforest with a gun! :cool:

TRUE

[iBlue]

man, regardless my favorite "gun" (well, assault rifle) is an AK-47. [shrugs] my preference ;) they are light-weight by comparison to many other rifles of all classes, they are accurate, they barely "kick" at all, and they are durable.
i have pictures of me firing it (with several other firearms (target practice in the boonies) if anyone is interested, but lets just say that i enjoy it for a weapon.
disclaimer, this is a legal firearm, it is not used maliciously or for anything other than innocent recreation ("hey lets shoot that rock over there on the hill" or "hit that paper target" etc) i am not a terrorist ;)

[clayj]

No one here remembers the original Predator? Tearing up the jungle with a handheld mini-gun :D

They are nuts - the mini gun canon on an A10 is even more impressive. I saw an Air Force film on the thing and it made swiss cheese of a tank.

DMy dad used to be an A-10 pilot... I've got a shell casing (you can see it in this picture (http://www.clayj.com/claysoffice.jpg), right behind the "w" in "Microsoft wireless routers") that was one of many used by him to destroy a captured Soviet tank in the New Mexico desert when he trained for the A-10. (The USAF bought them from the Israelis, who captured them from the Egyptians and Syrians at some point.)

What makes the Avenger cannon on the A-10 so deadly is TWO things... first, its massive rate of fire. A one-second burst from that cannon contains 70 30mm shells, any one of which can eliminate a tank all by itself.

But the real doozy is that the penetrator is made of depleted uranium, which has two big advantages: It's almost the densest material on Earth, which means that if it's properly-shaped and fired at high speed, it can punch through almost anything. And it's pyrophoric, which means that if you apply enough pressure to it, it will burst into flame and become a jet of molten hot metal. The solid shell that enters the tank on one side basically turns into lava with not enough penetrative force to exit the tank on the other side, but still enough energy to bounce around inside the tank like a red-hot Pac-Man, destroying everything it touches (men, ammo box, etc.).

The original Fairchild International promotional video for the A-10 is impressive as hell... watching the shells rip into a tank in super slow-mo and shred it was VERY cool.

[aloofman]

The original Fairchild International promotional video for the A-10 is impressive as hell... watching the shells rip into a tank in super slow-mo and shred it was VERY cool.

I distinctly remember seeing an A-10 at an airshow doing maneuvers overhead that blew my mind. The thing turned on a dime and at one point did a bizarre shimmy that I know I saw but my brain thought was physically impossible. Just an incredible aircraft.

The rate of fire on the gun is supposedly so high that holding the trigger down for more than a couple seconds would exhaust all of the ammo it can carry. I've heard that the pilots have to be trained to fire in extremely short bursts to compensate for it. There are other guns that fire depleted uranium rounds and the cleanup is a bitch if they ever bother with it. I've heard there are concerns about it in the former Yugoslavia.

[clayj]

The rate of fire on the gun is supposedly so high that holding the trigger down for more than a couple seconds would exhaust all of the ammo it can carry. I've heard that the pilots have to be trained to fire in extremely short bursts to compensate for it. There are other guns that fire depleted uranium rounds and the cleanup is a bitch if they ever bother with it. I've heard there are concerns about it in the former Yugoslavia.Typically, an A-10 will carry either a 30-second load (2100 rounds) or a full 60-second load (4200 rounds), depending on the mission profile. So, theoretically, they could fire the cannon for 30 seconds or 60 seconds continuously... except for the fact that the recoil of the cannon is so high (10,000 pounds of force, muzzle velocity is Mach 3+) that the plane would slow down and stall out if the cannon was fired for more than a few seconds continuously. Also, the barrels need time to cool (just a few seconds) or they could be distorted by the heat.

A one-second burst is sufficient to destroy any tank. Because of the recoil, the plane's nose is forced UPWARDS when the cannon is fired, so the pilots aim for a point just below the target and then fire... the cannon will naturally trace up and hit the target.

It's unfortunate that the USAF is abandoning the A-10 for flashier, more expensive planes like the F-16. There's never been a better, safer (for the pilot... not for the schmucks on the ground), or deadlier CAS (Close Air Support) airplane than the A-10.

[StarbucksSam]

I hate guns. I don't know why people are so fascinated by big stupid machines that they have to use to kill people because they are too cowardly to fight by hand the fight they shouldn't be fighting in the first place.

[~Shard~]

I hate guns. I don't know why people are so fascinated by big stupid machines that they have to use to kill people because they are too cowardly to fight by hand the fight they shouldn't be fighting in the first place.

I agree that their destructive nature makes them ethically quesitonable in some aspects, however gnus are anything but "big stupid machines" - quite the opposite in fact. I have always been fascinated with ballistics and firearms purely from the engineering/design point of view, and the physics behind them. They are extremely complicated machines, and quite a work of art, like it or not. My future Father-in-law builds his own guns and ammo, and has shown me some fascinating things, so I have to say that although I question their purpose from time to time, I do really appreciate them and the technology behind them. Plus, it's fun to go to the range for target practice!

As for my Father-in-law, he's also been consistently ranked as the "Top Shot" in all of North America for marksmanship, etc., (that's right, #1 in the continent!) so I always have to make sure to stay on his good side. :o :cool:

[yellow]

The A-10 is an insane aircraft built to do an insane job. (one it does well)

Check out these videos of the Avenger in action:

http://ww2.a-10.org/A-10gau-8.avi
http://ww2.a-10.org/a10-4.avi

And while your at it, cluster bombs. More ways men have thought up to annihilate each other:

http://ww2.a-10.org/a10-1.avi
http://ww2.a-10.org/a10_11.mpg

EDIT: OK, looks like I can't link them, so here's the site I got them from:

http://www.a-10.org/a10-files.html

[iBlue]

I hate guns. I don't know why people are so fascinated by big stupid machines that they have to use to kill people because they are too cowardly to fight by hand the fight they shouldn't be fighting in the first place.

i'm more concerned about the "big stupid operators" of those "big stupid machines" a gun is a tool, it only does as it's "told".
there are plenty of responsible firearm owners, so please resist the urge to generalize like that.
i would never kill someone unless there were good reason (i.e., it was my life or theirs) i of all people am definitely not afraid to "fight by hand" i have two black belts, i'm quite capable ;) it is not my style at all, i am extremely peaceful, i just have a few strange hobbies.

just please don't make blanket statements, you're giving undue ridicule towards people who don't deserve it or even nearly come close to your stereotype.

amicably,

[MarkCollette]

As for my Father-in-law, he's also been consistently ranked as the "Top Shot" in all of North America for marksmanship, etc., (that's right, #1 in the continent!) so I always have to make sure to stay on his good side. :o :cool:

Is your father-in-law one of those Canadian snipers that they mentionned in the news a while back in Afghanistan?

A while ago, me and my girlfriend at the time went to an indoor shooting range here in Calgary. Neither of us had ever fired a real gun with real bullets before. Although, I had fired a machine gun with blanks at a military show, back when Calgary had a sizeable military presence. Anyways, it will be forever ingrained into me the absolute power and seriousness involved in handling and firing a gun. I fired several pistols and semi-automatic rifles, and a shotgun. I was actually surprised at how easy it was to hit a terminal zone on the targets from that distance.

[topicolo]

I hate guns. I don't know why people are so fascinated by big stupid machines that they have to use to kill people because they are too cowardly to fight by hand the fight they shouldn't be fighting in the first place.

Well in that case, you can avoid this thread and stop trolling

[JesseJames]

I've been wanting to get a shotgun for quite a while.
I think you really can't go wrong with any of the major manufacturers.
At first I wanted a Browning BPS pump shotgun because I'm a lefty. It loads and ejects from the bottom. But it is pricey for what you get.
There's the workhorse Remington 870 pump, but it just doesn't really appeal to me.
I like the Winchester Speed Pump shotguns and handled a friends Defender model while I was in the Army. But they don't make leftys :(

I want it to be an all around shotgun. Trap, skeet, turkey, duck, pheasant. So I figured I'd go for an automatic. I've consulted some guys who know guns and said they are heavy and bulky and a pain to keep clean.
Then I found out about Benelli. :D
Their M2 Field shotguns are recoil operated. Not gas operated. So they keep clean much better. They also have the trademark Comfortech system which lessens recoil and allows for more comforatable shooting all day(for skeet and trap).
Benelli seems to be the only manufacturer who offers an extensive line of lefty automatic shotguns. They get more points from me for that fact.
They are pricey but I've heard great things about them so guess what I'll be getting for Christmas for myself?

[rainman::|:|]

Well in that case, you can avoid this thread and stop trolling

Well I think we're at least allowed to voice dissent here and again, right? if everyone agreed with you, the world would be a lot less interesting, etc etc.

[topicolo]

Well I think we're at least allowed to voice dissent here and again, right? if everyone agreed with you, the world would be a lot less interesting, etc etc.
dissent is fine, as long as it's mature and it contributes to the thread. If he posted something about how guns are bad because they've been linked to increases in homicide rates then it'd be fine, but an emotional outburst about how guns suck because they just do is just annoying. Pointless attempts to start an argument without any factual backup is trolling.

If a PC fanatic came into a mac thread and said "I hate MACS. I don't know why people are so fascinated by big stupid machines..." the response would be VERY different.

[aloofman]

I hate guns. I don't know why people are so fascinated by big stupid machines that they have to use to kill people because they are too cowardly to fight by hand the fight they shouldn't be fighting in the first place.

People don't use guns because they're too cowardly to fight hand-to-hand. They use guns because it's easier to hurt or kill people with a gun that with your fist. Or more likely, to threaten to do so. Whether you like guns or not, it has nothing to do with bravery.

[~Shard~]

a gun is a tool, it only does as it's "told".

Exaaaactly - a gun isn't a weapon, it's a tool, like a butcher knife, or a harpoon, or... or... or an alligator. :cool:

Is your father-in-law one of those Canadian snipers that they mentionned in the news a while back in Afghanistan?

No, but he probably trained them. ;) My Father-in-law does all the firearms training for the RCMP (Royal Canadian Mounted Police: the Feds here) and Special Forces at the National RCMP Training Academy headquartered here in Regina. He also gets approached by Remmington, Smith & Wesson, Winchester, Glock, etc. all the time to come design guns for them as an expert consultant. Very cool stuff, I like bragging about him any chance I can get. ;) :cool:

A while ago, me and my girlfriend at the time went to an indoor shooting range here in Calgary. Neither of us had ever fired a real gun with real bullets before. Although, I had fired a machine gun with blanks at a military show, back when Calgary had a sizeable military presence. Anyways, it will be forever ingrained into me the absolute power and seriousness involved in handling and firing a gun. I fired several pistols and semi-automatic rifles, and a shotgun. I was actually surprised at how easy it was to hit a terminal zone on the targets from that distance.

Absolutely - I feel the same way when I shoot as well. And my fiancee, (let alone being taught to shoot before she could walk! ;)), was in the Army, firing all sorts of automatic weaponry, tossing live grenades and the whole deal. A lot of power at your disposal - I think many people take it for granted.

[yellow]

For those who are interested, there's an episode on Modern Marvels tonight at 9PM EDT about the A-10 Thunderbolt. Moden Marvels is on the History Channel.

[~Shard~]

For those who are interested, there's an episode on Modern Marvels tonight at 9PM EDT about the A-10 Thunderbolt. Moden Marvels is on the History Channel.

Cool, thanks for the head's up! Hopefully our version of the History Channel here in Canada (Histroy Network) picks it up - they usually do overlap a fair bit in their schedules.

[sushi]

They are nuts - the mini gun canon on an A10 is even more impressive. I saw an Air Force film on the thing and it made swiss cheese of a tank.
Not to be picky, but the A10 does not have a minigun. Rather it is a chain gun that fires 30mm rounds.

The mini gun in this movie fires a much smaller round.

The AH-1S Cobra has a 7.62mm minigun. The M134. It's rate of fire is around 2,000 to 4,000 sps (shots per minute).

There are 4 AH-1S variants: MOD, PROD, ECAS & MC. Over the years, these acronyms have changed somewhat such as FM for MC.

Anyhow, the MOD and PROD models could be equiped with two minis or one mini and one chunker or two chunkers. The most common setup was with one mini and one chunker. I must say that firing dual minis was a hoot. We're talking about putting out around 4,000 to 8,000 rounds per minute with a dual setup.

The MC had a 3 barrel 20mm chain gun. HEI rounds could definitely do some damage.

The A10, as I mentioned earlier, has a 30mm round. So does the AH-64. While the diameter of the rounds are similar, the size of the casings are hugely different. The A10 can do some serious damage.

Anyhow, nice flick.

Trivia question. In this film you can see the tracer rounds. How many non tracer rounds are there in between each tracer round?

Second trivia question. What does the tracer orange color signify?

Sushi

[evilernie]

No one here remembers the original Predator? Tearing up the jungle with a handheld mini-gun :D

They are nuts - the mini gun canon on an A10 is even more impressive. I saw an Air Force film on the thing and it made swiss cheese of a tank.

D

"I ain't got time to bleed".

Classic.

[sushi]

More ways men have thought up to annihilate each other
As an old Armor type before I went aviation, I prefer the Beehive round.

Good stuff to get rid of crunchies (Infantry).

Sushi

[yellow]

Good stuff to get rid of crunchies (Infantry).


Heh, never heard it called that. It certainly has a nicer ring to it than "soft targets".

[sushi]

So, theoretically, they could fire the cannon for 30 seconds or 60 seconds continuously... except for the fact that the recoil of the cannon is so high (10,000 pounds of force, muzzle velocity is Mach 3+) that the plane would slow down and stall out if the cannon was fired for more than a few seconds continuously.
Try being in a frisbee (OH-58) right below (~50-75ft) an A10 when it let's go with the 30. Shakes the crap out of you!

A one-second burst is sufficient to destroy any tank. Because of the recoil, the plane's nose is forced UPWARDS when the cannon is fired, so the pilots aim for a point just below the target and then fire... the cannon will naturally trace up and hit the target.
Ask your dad about inverted firing. We used to work with A10 guys that after the bump would acquire the target inverted and begin engaging while inverted.

When working with the Army, the A10s are under the control of the Battle Captain. The BC is orchistrating the entire engagement. While the A10 is engaging the Cobras/Apaches are launching rounds (Mainly rockets, but also TOW and Hellfire) under the A10 to cover it's break. While this is going on, artillery rounds are already in the air to land at the appropriate time. When I was a BC we used a one minute JAAT clock. The BC was communicating on three different radios at the same time, while coordinating with the other pilot in the OH-58 on intercom. Things could get a bit busy at times to say the least -- especially when one of your radios doesn't work.

Sushi

[sushi]

Heh, never heard it called that. It certainly has a nicer ring to it than "soft targets".
Infantry are called crunchies because as the tank runs over them their bones are being crunched making that snap crackle pop or crunching sound! :D

I know, sick humor. Sorry. But that is how we learned it.

Sushi

[sushi]

"I ain't got time to bleed".
Classic line for sure. One of my favorite. Especially since the actor who says it was a SEAL.

Sushi

[sushi]

Cool, thanks for the head's up! Hopefully our version of the History Channel here in Canada (Histroy Network) picks it up - they usually do overlap a fair bit in their schedules.
Can you record it for me?

Sushi

[sushi]

No, but he probably trained them. ;) My Father-in-law does all the firearms training for the RCMP (Royal Canadian Mounted Police: the Feds here) and Special Forces at the National RCMP Training Academy headquartered here in Regina. He also gets approached by Remmington, Smith & Wesson, Winchester, Glock, etc. all the time to come design guns for them as an expert consultant. Very cool stuff, I like bragging about him any chance I can get. ;) :cool:
Can I visit?

I love shooting. Really miss not being able to shoot here in Japan like at home. I miss my guns as well.

Qualified Expert with Pistol (right and left handed) and M16 (right and left handed). Always passed the tank and arial gunnery tables. Loved firing under NVG's. Shooting the rockets would blind you.

Back to the film, I wonder how much the demonstration cost ammo wise?

Sushi

[~Shard~]

Can you record it for me?

If it's on, I'll try and grab a copy of it. I'll check when I get home tonight...

Can I visit?

I love shooting. Really miss not being able to shoot here in Japan like at home. I miss my guns as well.

Qualified Expert with Pistol (right and left handed) and M16 (right and left handed). Always passed the tank and arial gunnery tables. Loved firing under NVG's. Shooting the rockets would blind you.

Sure, come on over - you'd have a blast! (pardon the pun) My Father-in-law would probably love "talking shop" with you as well. He was never in the military, but is a firearms expert nonetheless as I indicated in my previous posts. Let me know if you ever plan on coming over for a visit! :)

[yellow]

Sush, is the use of helo gunships as cover for the A-10s because they're so slow (in comparision to all the other armed, fixed-wing aircraft)?

[clayj]

Sush, is the use of helo gunships as cover for the A-10s because they're so slow (in comparision to all the other armed, fixed-wing aircraft)?Any SAM is WAY faster than any plane that might be attacking the ground (A-10, F-16, F-111, F-15, etc.), so the helicopters, which can jump up from behind cover and lay waste to SAM positions, are good for making sure that the airplanes (which are faster but not as maneuverable) don't get shot at too much.

The A-10 is without a doubt the most survivable (i.e., hard to kill) airplane on the battlefield... the pilot sits inside a "bathtub" of titanium, and the plane can fly with one engine and half of one wing gone. The engines are positioned in such a way that they are somewhat shielded from IR-seeking missiles, and since they're outboard, a missile hit on an engine is less likely to damage the rest of the plane.

[iPoster]

They are nuts - the mini gun canon on an A10 is even more impressive. I saw an Air Force film on the thing and it made swiss cheese of a tank.
D

I see your A-10, and raise you an AC-130! (http://www.viperalley.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/11005/cat/all/page/1) :eek:

*long video so be patient*

[yellow]

Isn't that a C-130 transport with multiple chain guns side mounted?

[AlBDamned]

Isn't that a C-130 transport with multiple chain guns side mounted?

Yeah but the AC130 is a special version used for troop or 'crunchie' clearing. Maybe in this sense they should also be called 'splatties'.


Can't believe no one has mentioned the Mini Gun in T2 (almost beats predator!)!!

[iPoster]

Isn't that a C-130 transport with multiple chain guns side mounted?

That is correct. (http://www.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?fsID=71)

These heavily armed aircraft incorporate side-firing weapons integrated with sophisticated sensor, navigation and fire control systems to provide surgical firepower or area saturation during extended loiter periods, at night and in adverse weather. The sensor suite consists of a television sensor, infrared sensor and radar.

It has two chainguns, a 40mm cannon and a 105mm howitzer... :D

[yellow]

I seem to remember this first being introduced in Vietnam, and it being nicknamed "Puff the Magic Dragon".

EDIT: Which I now see is detailed in that link. Thanks!

[~Shard~]

Can't believe no one has mentioned the Mini Gun in T2 (almost beats predator!)!!

That was a good scene as well. As was the one from The Matrix when Neo saves Morpheus. I love the shot of the casings, etc. falling like rain from the helicopter. :cool:

[AlBDamned]

That was a good scene as well. As was the one from The Matrix when Neo saves Morpheus. I love the shot of the casings, etc. falling like rain from the helicopter. :cool:

True, true, the slow-mo shell casings were a class effect. Has anyone seen the 'Old Painless' featurette on the Predator SE DVD? They actually fired that gun using their hands...

[cantthinkofone]

About 6 years ago my dad and i were on a river here in missouri trapping in the winter, and we went under this rail-road bridge that had a small tank on a rail-road car that was flat(sorry dont know what they are called). The next day we came down to it again in our canoe, and when we were about 100 yards away we heard this very loud rumble from behind us. I looked back and saw two dark green A-10s hauling a$$ towards us. "we are going to die" i thought to myself. They were about 300 feet off the deck. They pulled up so fast my brain as well had trouble comprehending how they could do that like aloofman said. I guess they were practicing strafing runs, but they disappeared as fast as they appeared.

There was also a A-10 that crashed around that area about 2-3 years ago. Never did hear much about it. Pilot lived, and wasn't hurt at all, but the jet was done for.

I also remember watching something about the A-10 in desert storm, and one pilot came back and had holes in his wing that you could crawl thru. And a lot of other small holes. He said he didn't even notice until he got on the ground and looked it over.

[~Shard~]

True, true, the slow-mo shell casings were a class effect. Has anyone seen the 'Old Painless' featurette on the Predator SE DVD? They actually fired that gun using their hands...

With that specific weapon, I wouldn't have thought that was possible... :confused:

[AlBDamned]

With that specific weapon, I wouldn't have thought that was possible... :confused:

It never explained the true physics of it, but they basically fired it in bursts and it was every bit as crazy as it looks.

Could well be some intricate pyrotechnics but it looked wild. I'm not sure if it's in that feature or not, but I read/saw a piece that said using one of those guns is basically means blowing something like $20k a minute in ammo.

You can get custom BB/Soft Air Versions (http://www.montysminiguns.com/bbpage.htm)

Just thought of another one: The scene in Under Seige where they lock on and blow up the F18 Hornet, not a 'mini' gun, but a full size 6 barrel vulcan capable of major damage.

[sushi]

Sush, is the use of helo gunships as cover for the A-10s because they're so slow (in comparision to all the other armed, fixed-wing aircraft)?
Actually, I would say that the A10 is more survivable doing a JAAT because it is slow. As for helicopters covering the FW aircraft, we cover all AC used in a JAAT because they are all very vulnerable to ground fire right after engaging the target when they are returning for another run.

Here is a typical profile as I remember it -- been a few years ago...

A typical profile for attack has the attacking AC coming in low then at a specified area it bumps up to acquire the target. The Battle Captain knows where the bump area is. Other than that, the A10 can fly where it wants/needs to bump at that point. When bumping the A10 does a pull up then rolls inverted then pulls down while acquiring the target while still inverted. This is done due to the high G load on the pilot. Positive Gs are always easier to take than negative ones.

Before beginning a JAAT, the Battle Captain is told how many A10s will be supporting the attack. Generally they always work in pairs. On the way into the target the BC passes a general description of the target such as column of tanks moving SE to NW, would like you to engage the front tanks first. Or a tank in a Southern defensive position.

Once the A10 bumps, to help the A10 pilot acquire the target you would like him to engage you give him general directions to point his gun so to speak. The current method may differ, but way back when we used normal directions for us and the A10 pilot would convert to his upside down position. Such as down 10 (degrees) right 20 (degrees) for us would mean up 10 and left 20 for the A10 pilot. BTW, it is easy to aim the A10 because it is slow and that the body is basically built around the gun!

Generally the A10 pilot will affirm contact with the target and then the BC releases his engagement. The A10 will then roll right side up and engage, or as some do, engage while rolling. You will hear the thunderous burp of the 30. It is really an awesome sound.

BTW, not always will the A10 bump high and roll inverted. Once the target is acquired then may just come in low on the deck. As I mentioned earlier, I have had them come in close to 50 feet above me while firing the 30. It is a racket to say the least. The OH-58 will vibrate like you wouldn't believe. In this case we were in the trees and the A10 was right above the trees.

Anyway, immediately after engaging the target, the A10 will need to somehow turn around to move out of the engagement area to make another coordinated attack. When they make their turn, which could be a bump or low level run they are very vulnerable to ground fire from everything imaginable be it small arms fire, machine guns, Anti-aircraft, hand held AA missiles, SAMs, etc.

That is where the attack helicopters come in. They apply seropositive fire to protect the A10. They are the first to fire because they can shoot right under the A10 quickly. Then comes the artillery. The purpose of the two fires (direct and indirect) is to protect the A10 by keeping the enemy’s heads down.

In some cases the BC may request a re-attack. In this case the A10s will do their initial attack then reattack the target immediately without first moving out of the kill zone. In this case suppressive fire will solely fall on the attack helicopters. Because of the way the JAAT clock works, the A10 cannot reattack if you already have artillery on the way. To make it easy to explain, let's say it takes 20 seconds for artillery to arrive on target. The BC is requesting artillery fires and has rounds in the air before the A10 has engaged the target. In an idea situation, as the A10s just begin their return attack helicopters are shooting right under them then just seconds later artillery rounds are arriving. Needless to say, the BC is very busy communicating on three different nets coordinating the A10s, artillery and Cobra fires.

The A10 is a wonderful ground attack airplane. I've worked with other fast movers where their bump can be as high as 6,000 feet due to their speed. It is also very hard to direct them due to their speed and limited forward cockpit visibility.

While in the desert environment it is usually easier to acquire a column of vehicles than in a non desert environment, it still can be difficult to see defensive positions.

What is really nice is to create an air ambush. You have a JAAT going on from one direction (main) while you have attack helicopters attack from the sides.

Mountainous JAATs are interesting. I was flying a Cobra in Korea during training and watched the A10s fly in under us. We were high up on the mountain side in a defilade position while the A10s came in through the valley below.

In training sometimes the pilots have fun with each other. For example, just as the A10 is beginning their return, they are under very high Gs usually somewhere in the neighborhood of 4-6 Gs so we politely request their fuel status or weapons status. And of course they can't speak normally so you get the grunt talk. Of which we calmly reply with a thanks and ask for some other innocuous piece of information. And of course they realize that we are messing with them, but can't let is show so they reply as if it is normal operations.

The A10 is a very durable AC. It can take a lot of punishment and survive. If you haven't figured out by now, I really like the A10. My dream was to fly one of two AC. The AH-1S Cobra or the A10. Having gone the Army route, I ended up flying the AH-1S and enjoyed every second of it. There is nothing like being able to look down on both sides, pick one and roll inverted in an attack. It's a hoot.

Of course if you f__k up, you get the blew blade effect where one blew that way and the other blew that way and then you become a brick. BTW, I know of one person in Vietnam who lost their main rotor due to 51Cal AA at around 500 feet and lived to survive the crash.

This discussion brings back old fond memories. Well, I hope that I haven't bored everyone with the long-winded response.

Sushi

[sushi]

Yeah but the AC130 is a special version used for troop or 'crunchie' clearing.
Just a point of clarification on my crunchie comments.

That is the way Armor folks refer to Infantry. Other branches do not. Also, Infantry folks don't really appreciate this term of endearment and would probably not take kindly to it should you mention it in a bar.

However, Armor guys generally like crunchies since they help lubercate their tank tracks. :eek: :D

Sushi

[sushi]

If it's on, I'll try and grab a copy of it. I'll check when I get home tonight...
Thanks!

Sure, come on over - you'd have a blast! (pardon the pun) My Father-in-law would probably love "talking shop" with you as well. He was never in the military, but is a firearms expert nonetheless as I indicated in my previous posts. Let me know if you ever plan on coming over for a visit! :)
Sounds like a good idea, eh? :D

Sushi

[JesseJames]

Uhm, you know what Infantry guys call the Armor guys right?

Dumbass Tanker.

But speaking as a former mech infantryman; I can't say much bad about track jockeys.

In the end we're all big happy family.

[sushi]

Uhm, you know what Infantry guys call the Armor guys right?

Dumbass Tanker.
Why do you think I went aviation?! :D :D :D

...from a treadhead to a rotorhead. But a rotorhead with extensive infantry training as well.

In the end we're all big happy family.
You got that right! :D

Sushi

[~Shard~]

Thanks!

Urgh, sorry sushi, it's not on after all. I'll have to find a torrent of it or something like that. I was looking forward to watching it too! :(

Sounds like a good idea, eh? :D

Damn straight! :)

Oh, and excellent comprehensive post by the way on the previous page, I learned a lot! Quite impressive. :cool:

[Whyren]

Any John Wayne/Winchester rifle enthusiasts may be interested this raffle (http://www.johnwaynebirthplace.org/raffle/) the John Wayne Birthplace has.

BTW, sorry if this is too OT, but this looked interesting (to me at least).

[yellow]

That was an awesomely detailed post. I learned a TON and really appreciate you taking the time to write it! Thanks Sushi!

[sushi]

That was an awesomely detailed post. I learned a TON and really appreciate you taking the time to write it! Thanks Sushi!
Thanks. You are most welcome.

Here's a diagram of the cockpit for the AH-1S. Just a few dials and buttons. :D

Sushi

Edit: This is just the front panel. Each side has a panel extending from the front to the rear horizontally about chair height.

[sushi]

Here's a diagram of the HUD (Head Up Display) in test mode.

Sushi

[combatcolin]

Just watched the video clip, surprised the car is as "intact" as it was.

Expected it be be carbon atoms after all that ammo...

[Les Kern]

Well in that case, you can avoid this thread and stop trolling
He's not trolling, he's stating his opinion. Like calling an anti-war protester un-american. Bah.
Guns are stoopid. The amount of effort we spend on killing each other boggles the mind, and while the gun is amazing and raises the testosterone levels in most males (lowering the IQ in proportion) it's nothing more than a way to kill another human.

[Dagless]

the gun sounds incredible. just don't give it to an ape.

[sushi]

Just watched the video clip, surprised the car is as "intact" as it was.

Expected it be be carbon atoms after all that ammo...
The result is due to the size and type of ammo being used.

If they were using a chain gun capabile of firing 20mm HEI, for example, the result would have been much different.

Sushi

[cheekyspanky]

Here is a typical profile as I remember it -- been a few years ago...

A typical profile for attack has the attacking AC coming in low then at a specified area it bumps up to acquire the target. The Battle Captain knows where the bump area is. Other than that, the A10 can fly where it wants/needs to bump at that point. When bumping the A10 does a pull up then rolls inverted then pulls down while acquiring the target while still inverted. This is done due to the high G load on the pilot. Positive Gs are always easier to take than negative ones....snip

....snip

It's a hoot.

Of course if you f__k up, you get the blew blade effect where one blew that way and the other blew that way and then you become a brick. BTW, I know of one person in Vietnam who lost their main rotor due to 51Cal AA at around 500 feet and lived to survive the crash.

This discussion brings back old fond memories. Well, I hope that I haven't bored everyone with the long-winded response.

Sushi

And even with all of that planning they still somehow manage to destroy British army vehicles..

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/03/31/1048962677977.html?oneclick=true

[deanbo]

Where can I get a gun like that?

[yellow]

Here's a diagram of the cockpit for the AH-1S. Just a few dials and buttons.

That must be a blast to drive intoxicated. No problems. :)

[sushi]

And even with all of that planning they still somehow manage to destroy British army vehicles.
It's called the fog of war.

Things get messy during war. There are no clear lines.

Unfortunately, friendlies get killed.

Obviously this is an area of concern and steps are taken to minimize such occurances.

Sushi

[combatcolin]

Does have to be said, that the Americans get a lot more "fog" than everyone else.

[fistful]

sorry, can't look at the gun, too busy looking at the breasts. I have my priorities you know...

[~Shard~]

sorry, can't look at the gun, too busy looking at the breasts. I have my priorities you know...

Breasts?! Where?!? :eek: :D

[fistful]

Breasts?! Where?!? :eek: :D

hmm, just realized the images change every time you click the link. There was 2 pictures in particular 1. a women in a bikini top with nice cleavage 2. a topless girl in what seemed like a mud pit with some shirtless guys. I'm sure if you refresh enough you'll be sure to come across them. ;)

[sushi]

Breasts?! Where?!? :eek: :D
Talk about fog... :eek: :p :D

[~Shard~]

Talk about fog... :eek: :p :D

Stupid fog...

[sushi]

Urgh, sorry sushi, it's not on after all. I'll have to find a torrent of it or something like that. I was looking forward to watching it too! :(
Bummer. If you happen to find it, please let me know.

Oh, and excellent comprehensive post by the way on the previous page, I learned a lot! Quite impressive. :cool:
Domo Domo.

Sure brings back the memories.

I was cruising around the highways a couple of nights ago. Going around 120kph. Thought that it was a pretty good clip. Then realized that I used to fly under NVGs at 100-120 knots. That's about 185-222 kph! A whole lot faster and in 3D where you have to avoid obstacles like trees, wires, poles, other AC, etc. while flying in close proximity to the ground. All the while working on the mission at hand.

Oh, and here's one for ya. Imagine you are going to engage a target with 2.75 inch rockets while flying NVGs (Using the old full face type, not what they have today.) The problem is that when you fire rockets, your NVGs shut down and you cannot see anything for a few seconds. Which when it happens seems like an eternity. You are blind as a bat, but with no radar to help.

So you have a choice, fire the rockets and be blind or use an alternative method. This is especially true if you are in a heavy hog configuration and you fire quad all. Basically you launch 52 rockets in just a few seconds. At the time, the best method that we had was to look down into our lap while we are firing then look back up through the HUD. Of course you are doing this while you are hovering or doing running fire at around 185 kph or diving fire at around 250 kph!

At the time, it was no biggie. However, many years later, sometimes it's hard to imagine doing that. Dang, the things we do when were are young and full of p_ss and c_m! :D

Sushi

[sushi]

Stupid fog...
Maybe...

...an enjoyable fog...breasts and such! :D :D :D

Ya know, one time I was in my Cobra doing a runup when I was previleged to watch a young lady with a nice rack take a shower. Mind you this was during the daytime with the unaided eye.

We were sitting on the ground doing a runnup pointed towards her building and she was on the 3rd or 4th floor. Her blinds were drawn such that you could not see directly into her apartment, but we were lower so we saw everything.

...okay, so we might of taken a bit longer than normal. But we still got the job done! :D :D :D

Sushi

[~Shard~]

Bummer. If you happen to find it, please let me know.


Domo Domo.

Sure brings back the memories.


<snip>



Sounds amazing! As crazy as it sounds, I wouldn't have minded experiencing things like that. Of course, it's all fun and games until someone crahses their NVG... ;)

Maybe...

...an enjoyable fog...breasts and such!

Ah yes, I see what you mean - agreed! :cool:

[sushi]

Of course, it's all fun and games until someone crahses their NVG... ;)
So true. Lost a lot of close friends over the years to accidents. Had a few close calls myself as well.

Sushi

[~Shard~]

So true. Lost a lot of close friends over the years to accidents. Had a few close calls myself as well.

Sushi

That must have been tough. It's so easy in many respects to feel immortal in situations like that, when you have so much power (firepower itself included) at your fingertips. But, couple that with other factors, like inexperience, youth, panic, plain old bad luck, etc. and things can take a turn for the worse quicker than you can blink an eye. And as far as those extreme situations go, accidents are almost always catastrophic and fatal.

[highres]

Check out a real rifle...

Footage of the Barrett "Light .50" or M82A1 as it is known in the Special Forces community. This footage is from a Marine Sniper in Afghanistan, not saying I agree with how it is used just that it is an incredible piece of hardware. The longest recorded shot is from over a mile and a half out. It is called the "Anti Material" Weapon...SEALS used it in Iraq to take out SCUD equipment panels and also vehicles...Really nasty...

http://www.ehowa.com/showmovie.shtml?movie=marinesniperafghanistan.wmv

Info link:

http://www.barrettrifles.com/rifles/rifles_82A1.htm

[sambo.]

the only way it can be more phallic is if there were two ammo drums on either side.
que? it couldn't get more phallic if it was painted pink...