Philosophy thread

[King Cobra]

So we have an Official Poop Thread, and a funny pictures thread. How about some quick philosophy? It doesn't have to be original.

Only you or your stomach can be satisfied at any one time immediately following dinner.

Graduate philosopher = BS Artist (bulls**t artist)

Even if you win the rat race, you still have a long, pink tail and big ears.

A penny saved is ridiculous.

Wherever you go, there you are.

Disneyland and DisneyWorld are one of the few millionaire people traps operated by a giant mouse in a suit.

The pessimist sees the glass half empty and the optimist drinks it anyways.

Taco Bell: One of the only fast food places in which the sauce is applied by people working for a Spanish dog.

I want patience, and I want it now.

Black holes suck. :p

[AssassinOfGates]

An old sicilian proverb, some of you may have heard it in a movie :)

Man is like a piece of cheese.

[bennyg3]

There is an old Cat saying: We are all...gonna die!

First post! weeeeeee!

Also, being a philosophy major, here is a really good philosophy quote (that proves philosophy is, in fact, mostly BS):

"Beauty is a fateful gift of the essence of truth, and here truth means the disclosure of what keeps itself concealed."
--Martin Heidegger, WHAT IS CALLED THINKING

I also like the philosopher/director Woody Allen, whose philosophy of life is captured in such nuggets as:

"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work, I want to achieve immortality through not dying."

Well that may not be philosophy, strictly speaking, but its funny.

Benny

[AssassinOfGates]

Originally posted by bennyg3
First post! weeeeeee!

You're about 24 minutes too late :D

[bennyg3]

i meant it was my first post. you definitely had the first post in the thread, though.

hehe! ;)

[Zenith]

"There is no spoon."

[eyelikeart]

"measure twice...cut only once..." ;)

[AssassinOfGates]

If you want to eat a pizza... eat a pizza!

[Thirteenva]

since we're not on a serious note, someone once told me this and cracked me up...


old wise chinese man once say:
"A man who goes to sleep with itchy ass, wakes up with smelly finger"


not sure how it relates to life, maybe, make sure you take care of business before resting?
;) :D :p

[Judo]

Originally posted by Thirteenva
since we're not on a serious note, someone once told me this and cracked me up...


old wise chinese man once say:
"A man who goes to sleep with itchy ass, wakes up with smelly finger"


not sure how it relates to life, maybe, make sure you take care of business before resting?
;) :D :p

I believe that was Confusious, who also said "Man with hole in pocket feel cocky all day"

[Mr. Anderson]

'What is matter?
Never mind...
What is mind?
Doesn' matter...'

Homer J. Simpson

But for this to truly be a philosophical thread it needs to more than witty quotes and sayings and more of a discussion. One of my favorites from school was always the question of 'what is art?'

Any takers?

D

[zarathustra]

I have to say this:

These are merely proverbs and quotes - while it seems that most philosophy relies on anecdotal evidence and theories, i would love to see a more "philosophical discussion".

While my signatre contains such a nugget, I would not call it philosophy, only an aspect of an idea explored by Nietzsche.

Anyone else feel this way?

[zarathustra]

Originally posted by Judo


I believe that was Confusious, who also said "Man with hole in pocket feel cocky all day"

I believe that was: Man with hand in pocket feel cocky al day.

On a more serious thought, I agree with duke....

What is art?

In a broader sense, nothing more that physical demonstration of someone's thought patterns - be it commentary, observation, confusion, fear, love - not to be confused with craft which is created to "decorate" but lacks a central conceptual idea.

Example: an indian blanket from Navajo country is not a concept, but a craft, while artful; a painting exploring the demise of the Navajo population carries a depper meaning and is therefore art.

[Judo]

I can't remember where I heard this or who said it but it was something along the lines of turning something with a function into something we just look at.

Is what we see as being art subjective???
If someone paints a canvas completly white, hangs it in a gallery and calls it art, is it??
I don't think all people would call that art.
I think knowledge is empirical, so what one see's as art another see's differently. Just because someone puts a name to something dosn't mean it is so.

[diorio]

I know someone who took a philosophy class in college, and on the final paper, they had to respond to one word. "Why". Of course they answered "Why not", and got an A.

[Judo]

Originally posted by zarathustra


What is art?

In a broader sense, nothing more that physical demonstration of someone's thought patterns - be it commentary, observation, confusion, fear, love - not to be confused with craft which is created to "decorate" but lacks a central conceptual idea.

Example: an indian blanket from Navajo country is not a concept, but a craft, while artful; a painting exploring the demise of the Navajo population carries a depper meaning and is therefore art.

Hmmm I think I like your idea better than mine.

Another idea that just popped into my head to contradict my last.
"A horse is a horse of course of course"

[King Cobra]

duke, philosophy is philosophy, whether it suggests something comical, or whether it is something more involved. My thread is for Philosophy in general. Thus, all philosophy is accepted. :)

As for what is art, I feel it is a varying combonation of one's ability to display their strongest areas, whether it's education, drawing, whatever, in a completely natural form. Something, such as a fake or dirty money smile is not art, but a naturally beautiful drawing, or something pure, such as a pure expression of emotions, is art. Granted, it may be controversially biased as to whether or not people like it or not, but I think purity is the key to all artwork. I also feel, as zarathustra pointed out, that art should have a focused theme, or a meaning, in which most people can relate to.

[mcrain]

Originally posted by diorio
I know someone who took a philosophy class in college, and on the final paper, they had to respond to one word. "Why". Of course they answered "Why not", and got an A.

That's like the "legend" of the guy who took the philosophy class and the 3 hour final exam consisted of one question: "What is bravery?" He responded with, "This is." and got an A.

[MisterBlack]

Art is anything that a living creature does that does not relate to Survival of the Self or Survival of the Species.

You will find, when tracing back the purposes of most day to day activities, that these two ideas dominate our motivation almost all of the time.

Therefore, anything that we do that does not relate to these two things is an expression of our individuality, or abstract creativity, intelligence or free will. "Humanity". Putting forth the concept that being alive is not just about sleeping and eating and copulating, or making yourself comforable and fat to ensure that you will be able to continue sleeping and eating and copulating.

Under this definition, mathematics is art because mathematics does not directly relate to our survival. It enables us to do things that might relate to our survival, but does not itself.
Geometry is a fundamental part of music and visual media, which are in turn both forms of art.

This definition also suggests that anything done for a promised fee is not art, because salary is just a symbol for the acquisition of things such as shelter, food, and methods of comfort, which in turn relate to the Survival of the Self.

Sex is not art, because it is directly involved with the Survival of the Species. This is why pictures of beautiful naked women are not art, even though they look nice. They are merely in place to trigger thoughts (and therefore hormones) that relate to sex, which produces hornyness, which usually leads to an attempt at reproduction. Masturbation is merely a failed attempt; ie, the reproduction act occured, only with an object that could not be fertilized.

These examples are by no means the extent of what 'art' is, but should give you a better idea of what to look at or for when someone is talking about art.

[Mr. Anderson]

Originally posted by King Cobra
duke, philosophy is philosophy, whether it suggests something comical, or whether it is something more involved. My thread is for Philosophy in general. Thus, all philosophy is accepted. :)

So you've moved away from physics and now you're a philosopher? The philosophy of philosophy? Ha!

Any way - the general nature of philosophy is subjective, therefore the debate is only really dealing with individual interpretations of an idea or subject. There is no right or wrong answer, and from my point of view, which you don't have to agree with, anything, any idea, any thought can be considered philosophically as being what ever the creator (individual who's stating the idea, etc.) wants it to be.

That's the whole thing with art - you can't throw out any particular genre because its a mass market items - look at Warhol, for example.

Here's an example - you find a stone on in your shoe, you don't consider that art. But another person might take that stone and put it in a different context - placing on a piece of wood and 'calling' it art. And then it is.

D :D

[dreamlance]

"Art is something ugly that grows beautiful in time. Fashion is something beautiful that grows ugly in time."

[Ifeelbloated]

Philosophy majors think deep thoughts about being unemployed.

[fleetwood]

"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher regard those who think alike
than those who think differently."
(Nietzsche)

AKA:FLEETWOODMAC
fleetwood@macmall.com

[Mr. Anderson]

Originally posted by fleetwood
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher regard those who think alike than those who think differently."

That to me almost sounds more like common sense than philosophy ;)

But extrapolating this, the PC manufactures are corrupt because they think alike, while Apple tries to do things differently.

D

[ima_pseudonym]

<begin rant>

Graduate philosopher = BS Artist (bulls**t artist)

--- Philosophy majors typically graduate with a BA, not a BS (if they earn the PhD, though, then they might still learn to pile it high and deep)

'What is matter?
Never mind...
What is mind?
Doesn' matter...'

Homer J. Simpson

------"what is matter?
never mind...
what is mind?
no matter"

Bertrand Russell's family, over dinner, incessantly.


These are merely proverbs and quotes - while it seems that most philosophy relies on anecdotal evidence and theories, i would love to see a more "philosophical discussion".

--Philosophy (accept for bad philosophy) does not rely on anecdotal evidence. It relies on logical argument (usually deductive, from intuitive premises). If by a theory you mean a consistent set of axioms from which the observation in question can be deduced, then of course it relies on theory - as do the sciences, both hard and soft, alike.

Any way - the general nature of philosophy is subjective, therefore the debate is only really dealing with individual interpretations of an idea or subject. There is no right or wrong answer, and from my point of view, which you don't have to agree with, anything, any idea, any thought can be considered philosophically as being what ever the creator (individual who's stating the idea, etc.) wants it to be.

--No. The general nature of philosophy is anything but subjective. Only a very few philosophers accept subjectivist or relativist notions of truth (and they are generally the ones who studied literary theory and now call themselves Literature professors). The vast majority of philosophers agree that truth is more or less objective - they simply disagree (usually vehemently) - about what that truth is.

Philosophy majors think deep thoughts about being unemployed.
--Philosophy majors think deep thoughts about being employed as attourneys. Philosophy PhD's think deep thoughts about being unemployed.

Most of the philosophy that has been done in North America and the UK over the last century, is more similar to mathematics or science then it is to Heidegger.

<end rant>

[King Cobra]

>(dukestreet) So you've moved away from physics and now you're a philosopher? The philosophy of philosophy? Ha!

I don't plan to get into philosophy. I still plan to major in Physics. But I did have some free time, and a few funny statements to put together... :)

>(Re: -art) Here's an example - you find a stone on in your shoe, you don't consider that art. But another person might take that stone and put it in a different context - placing on a piece of wood and 'calling' it art. And then it is.

So the answer to the question "What is art?" would be "What isn't?" :D

>>(KC) Graduate philosopher = BS Artist (bulls**t artist)

>(pseudonym) --- Philosophy majors typically graduate with a BA, not a BS (if they earn the PhD, though, then they might still learn to pile it high and deep)

A toast, pseudonym, to the guys, who think too much and pile too much! :p

[zarathustra]

ima_pseudonym:

These are merely proverbs and quotes - while it seems that most philosophy relies on anecdotal evidence and theories, i would love to see a more "philosophical discussion".

--Philosophy (except for bad philosophy) does not rely on anecdotal evidence. It relies on logical argument (usually deductive, from intuitive premises). If by a theory you mean a consistent set of axioms from which the observation in question can be deduced, then of course it relies on theory - as do the sciences, both hard and soft, alike.

You just confirmed what I said: anecdotal evidence (what you cal "bad" philosophy), and theories (logical argument).

So cheers to you, nit-picky brainy man!;)

[Mr. Anderson]

Originally posted by King Cobra


So the answer to the question "What is art?" would be "What isn't?" :D


Not in and of itself - it has to be placed in context. That can be done in many ways - and some art is acknowledged as such without a direct context. Instead of saying that anything couldn be art its better to say art is interpreted differently by different people, and it would be the artists responsibility to 'define' the work if needed. There isn't a right or wrong answer here.

D

[fleetwood]

There are much better places for discussions like this.
THIS IS THE MAC RUMORS WEBPAGE ISN'T IT?

Lets start quoting sayings, I'll start.
KEEP YOUR EYE ON THE BALL.

[Mr. Anderson]

Originally posted by fleetwood
There are much better places for discussions like this.
THIS IS THE MAC RUMORS WEBPAGE ISN'T IT?

You've only just arrived - the community section is for loading and unloading of ideas that can be of any subject and not necessarilly mac related.

But its best that if you have an idea for a thread - like popular sayings, that you start another thread instead of hijacking one that's already got a decent start and a halfway interesting subject.

D :D

[mischief]

Art is any skill in any trade, craft or artform that has been taken to a level of skill in execution as to present the very motion of the creative process artful.

Art is anything done well enough to warrant awe.

Art is anything you can produce from the heart in a manner that is effortless.

Art is what happens when you stop thinking and DO .

The act of making a Double Mocha with all the various elements coming out perfect* can be an artform. Theatrical production ( techies not actors) is both an art and a craft. Where one draws the line I suppose is in tasks too mundane to occupy the mind with their execution.

*,(whip cream doesn't run, milk isn't burnt, coffee blend carries off the powdered Ghiradelli just right , shaved chocolate sticks to whipcream without caving or "shingling") :D ;)

[mischief]

If a tree falls on a philosopher, does he hear his skull crunch?

I think therefore I am.... does that mean that We think therefore All is?

Or that I think therefore We are?

If I submit the impossible "perfect" Tax form that does all the Tax-dodge nuts claim..... Will the world end or will I just go nuts from the paradox backlash?

Why do people actually take freaks like Jim Baker for anything other than crooks?

Why is it that after 5000+ years of cultural, pylosophical and religious evolution, is it so damn easy to create foaming Zealots out of Farm Boys?

Why is it that Advertisers seem convinced that Bitchy women and weak, frightened, whipped and befuddled men are both amusing and normal?

Why is Stupid currently cool? (Ask Dell...... Dude...):rolleyes:

[Choppaface]

Originally posted by ima_pseudonym
The vast majority of philosophers agree that truth is more or less objective - they simply disagree (usually vehemently) - about what that truth is.

but what suggests truth exists?

[scem0]

Why is Stupid currently cool? (Ask Dell...... Dude...)

Or Ellen Feiss for that matter..... She's kind of a....................
...........................................................................................
...............................................................................................
........................................ bummer.

[Phil Of Mac]

Logic is valid.

Please don't ask me to prove that. If you did, you would accept logic is a valid way of proving that logic is valid. In other words, you have to agree with me to question me.

Kinda cool, eh? :)

[MacBandit]

All things are relative. Thus says the Law of Relativity.

[Phil Of Mac]

The statement "there are no absolutes" is, in and of itself, an absolute. Thus invalidating the Law of Relativity.

Nice try, though.

[Choppaface]

Everything is nothing.

(thereby both proving and disproving the Law of Relativity, mwhahaha)

[mischief]

" You can fool some of the people some of the time but not all of the people all of the time."

But if you're in America you know that an isolated population, once convinced of it's moral and cultural superiority can be convinced of ANYTHING en masse if you can convince them to stay isolated and make their lives nice and cushy....

Would you like some Microwave popcorn with that CNN soundbite?;)

[MacBandit]

There are three types of people in this world. Those that can count and those that can't.