Apple signs delivery agreement with Freescale

[MacBytes]

http://www.macbytes.com/images/bytessig.gif (http://www.macbytes.com)

Category: Apple Hardware
Link: Apple ensures G4 supply won't dry up (http://www.macbytes.com/link.php?sid=20050826222712)

Posted on MacBytes.com (http://www.macbytes.com)
Approved by Mudbug

[PlaceofDis]

so apple is covering their butts, good job, although i can't say that i want the G4s to stick around any longer than they absolutely have to.

[DeSnousa]

Freescale is obliged to provide G4 chips untill 31, December 2008 :eek: I hope Apple is just be cautious and not thinking off using the chips until that time.

[Freg3000]

What is Freescale's motivation for entering into an agreement like this? What do they get besides liability. Apple doesn't have to buy anything but they have to keep making them if Apple says so.

There must be a good reason I am just missing. :o

[Nermal]

That's my thought too. What's in this for Freescale?

[PlaceofDis]

any business is better than none at all perhaps?

[Sun Baked]

That's my thought too. What's in this for Freescale?Who knows...

May have been some talk between the two on some of the current projects in the pipe, and this was a contract signed to avoid litigation for Apple's failure to buy any of those chips.

There is probably an escape clause in it that will allow Apple NOT to buy any chips from Freescale. ie, a Minimum purchase or a payoff clause.

Does two things for Apple, secures a supply just in case Apple needs them in the next couple years, and lets both companies make a clean end to their relationship without a civil suit.

[mikeyredk]

When i saw that i thought apple bought freescale :o we can only wish

[csubear]

<conspiracy theory>

What is the G4 really know for? Low power embedded systems. Why would apple want chips till 2008? Well for the new i-thing that acts as a media hub for your living room :)

</conspiracy theory>

lol

[avus]

I wonder if Apple is going to make a similar agreement with IBM for G5 (PPC 970)...?

[AmigoMac]

I wonder if Apple is going to make a similar agreement with IBM for G5 (PPC 970)...?

Of course, for the PB's :p.
go back to sleep, got the insomnia from Raven :(

[iMeowbot]

What is Freescale's motivation for entering into an agreement like this? What do they get besides liability. Apple doesn't have to buy anything but they have to keep making them if Apple says so.
Thy do say that they will be buying "work in progress that was in place at the time the agreement was executed", so Freescale do have an assurance that they aren't being stuck with inventory already earmarked for Apple.
I wonder if Apple is going to make a similar agreement with IBM for G5 (PPC 970)...?
They do have an agreement in place with IBM through 20 October 2007.

[kalisphoenix]

Hoping this has something to do with a eBook or something. Dammit. Come on Apple, gimme a PDA-thing.

[mduser63]

<conspiracy theory>

What is the G4 really know for? Low power embedded systems. Why would apple want chips till 2008? Well for the new i-thing that acts as a media hub for your living room :)

</conspiracy theory>

lol

Actually, this was one of my first thoughts upon reading this news. Apple may not be planning on using G4s in regular Macs until 2008, but the PowerPC (especially the G4) is a good chip for lower power embedded type applications, and it's a chip that Apple already knows and supports perhaps better than any other.

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Ever since Apple's announcement (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2005/06/20050606143135.shtml) of plans to move to Intel processors, there has been much speculation about the relationship between Apple and its G4 processor supplier: Motorola-spinoff Freescale Semiconductor.

New details emerged this week when Apple and Freescale signed a supply agreement, as noted in a regulatory Securities and Exchange Commission filing (http://biz.yahoo.com/e/050826/aapl8-k.html).

Under the terms of the agreement, subject to certain conditions, Freescale is obligated to supply its microprocessors for orders placed by Apple through December 31, 2008. Apple is under no obligation to purchase Freescale microprocessors other than work in progress that was in place at the time the agreement was executed.

The agreement extends through the end of 2008, even though Apple announced (http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2005/jun/06intel.html) it would deliver Intel Macs beginning mid-2006 and that the transition to Intel would be completed by the end of 2007.

TheStreet speculates (http://www.thestreet.com/_mktwrm/stocks/troywolverton/10240000.html) that this is a sign of a longer transition timeline. In its own report (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0508freescale.html), Think Secret echoes this possibility but points out that it could just as well be a contingency plan or be intended to allow Apple to buy replacement chips for older models.

[tsaxer]

I guess it only makes sense, since Apple usually introduces the new, better performing chips on the professional level machines, keeping the step-behind's on the ibook, emac, imac lines.
Oh well, smart business move, Murphy's law and all that...

[w_parietti22]

Freescale is obliged to provide G4 chips untill 31, December 2008 :eek: I hope Apple is just be cautious and not thinking off using the chips until that time.

I heard that it was so that they could do repairs. Also Appleinsider said this:

However, Apple is "under no obligation to purchase Freescale microprocessors other than work in progress that was in place at the time the agreement was executed," the company said in a regulatory filing.

[FunkSpaceMonkey]

Yeah, maybe it's for something other than a PPC.. :confused:

[aptmunich]

Yeah, if you buy a G4 based mac just before the middle of 2006 and buy applecare for it, Apple would still need to have a stockpile of those systems until the middle of 2009.

Guaranteeing a supply of chips until the end of 2008 would ensure that I guess.

I don't think this is anything but Apple covering themselves against disgruntled PPC owners who need replacement chips.

Have you seen the new Intel roadmap? Those are the chips they'll be using for embedded systems.

[AmigoMac]

Yeah, if you buy a G4 based mac just before the middle of 2006 and buy applecare for it, Apple would still need to have a stockpile of those systems until the middle of 2009.


If you have a G4 based mac and becomes a lemon, they will give you an Intel, it will be in the purchase contract (read the small letters) ;)
</easy way>

[freiheit]

Yeah, if you buy a G4 based mac just before the middle of 2006 and buy applecare for it, Apple would still need to have a stockpile of those systems until the middle of 2009.

I totally agree with this assessment as it makes quite a lot of sense. As to Freescale's reason for getting into it, being that they've not disclosed any information about anything remotely better than a G4 this means they at least do have a customer for their chips if Apple does keep using them for a while.

[Kobushi]

Since it's doubtful that apple will release a G5 PB before the switch, but it's likely that they will still upgrade (G4's), they're probably just covering themselves to keep some sort of production going. Aren't Power Books and Power Macs supposed to be last in line for intel chips anyway?

[VanNess]

Ahh, Paris...

The Eiffel Tower...The Arc de Triomphe...The Louvre...The Rue de Rivoli...The PowerBook G4 intègre un processeur Dual-Core PowerPC G4... :)

[GFLPraxis]

Before we get any, "G4 is teh suxxors!" comments;

This is most likely for Freescale's e600 G4 processors, the dual core with extremely low power consumption models...

I'd love to see these in the next PB update :D

[gregorydanger]

Kind of interesting, I guess.

This is just a though but ever since the Intel announcement was made and Jobs said the transition would be done by 2007, I figured that although it seems far off for an entire line of computers to make a transition like that it's not really THAT far off and that the completion date could be pushed back to 2008 -- not that Apple signed that with Freescale necessarily because of that but you know how computer companies work.

It'll be interesting to see how things pan out in the next few months.

[AmigoMac]

Ahh, Paris...

The Eiffel Tower...The Arc de Triomphe...The Louvre...The Rue de Rivoli...The PowerBook G4 intègre un processeur Dual-Core PowerPC G4... :)

Drolling once more on the topic... yeah, it's been Casablanca month for me.
Have seen the movie 4 times in the last weeks!! :eek:


http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=28737

[irobot2003]

Kind of interesting, I guess.

This is just a though but ever since the Intel announcement was made and Jobs said the transition would be done by 2007, I figured that although it seems far off for an entire line of computers to make a transition like that it's not really THAT far off and that the completion date could be pushed back to 2008 -- not that Apple signed that with Freescale necessarily because of that but you know how computer companies work.

It'll be interesting to see how things pan out in the next few months.

Actually I believe at one point in the announcement Jobs said the transition would be *mostly* complete by 2007...

[AmigoMac]

Actually I believe at one point in the announcement Jobs said the transition would be *mostly* complete by 2007...

Jobs says too many things , G5 3 GHz in 1 year... anyone? :p

[canadosurfer]

Jobs says too many things , G5 3 GHz in 1 year... anyone? :p

I agree, Jobs talks too much, he's like a mumbeling parot. Constantly making fake promisses.

[Analog Kid]

Just looks to me like Apple needed to extend their agreement which was probably set to expire before 2007. No sense in setting the end date of the new agreement to the exact time you expect to have the transition complete... Better to give yourself some insurance.

Nothing about this says "new products" to me. By the same token nothing says "no new products" either...

[Stella]

By the sounds of it, this deal is so apple can continue with G4 computer repairs, into 2008, and not for new Mac machines up until that date.

Bloody well hope not, anyway. At the progression of G4 processors to date, by 2008, G4s will be dinosaurs.

[oskar]

Aren't Power Books and Power Macs supposed to be last in line for intel chips anyway?
No. That's what many have come to believe due to misinformed opinions.

No one's mentioned that Apple isn't only worried about it's PowerBooks. The iBook, the eMac and the Mac mini, all still use G4's. The thing about AppleCare seems likely, but then again, how many G4 processors would Apple expect to replace in comparison to other computer parts? Doesn't Apple keep full systems' components in case of future repair or replacement protected by AppleCare?

[JFreak]

this agreement means nothing to us. apple is just securing their spare parts and that's about it. how old the G4 is by 2008? no new products for it anymore :) actually, i was amazed they still wanted to use the chip for mini mac as they would very well have been able to underclock the G5 for it should they needed to...

[iCraig]

this agreement means nothing to us. apple is just securing their spare parts and that's about it. how old the G4 is by 2008? no new products for it anymore :) actually, i was amazed they still wanted to use the chip for mini mac as they would very well have been able to underclock the G5 for it should they needed to...

Why would you want to put your top end CPU in the very bottom end consumer computer?
Its like shooting yourself in the foot!

OK, maybe Apple put the G5 in the iMac, but I see that as the top end consumer model and Apple probably expected to sell loads of them.
Also by using the G4 in the Mac Mini, I think it may keep costs down as they can use cheaper RAM and other components etc.

Also long live the G4!

[JFreak]

i'm just guessing, but i believe one G4 chip costs as much as one G5 chip, and if apple ordered a bunch of lower-spec G5's, they would very likely be a lot cheaper. the one really good reason for using the G5 would be 64 bits, which imho is what apple should push forward as the rest of the industry is also preparing to dump 32bit chips in a next few years.

so imho cost is not an issue. if the issue would be heat generated by a G5, i believe underclocking should solve it and be a feasible alternative for a lower-spec consumer box. these are minor issues that could be solved if they wanted to. the only real issue i can see is that while apple has had a good many years' experience of building G4 motherboards the G5 is still a rather new thing and they might not have been able to design a small enough G5 motherboard.

[rosalindavenue]

I agree, Jobs talks too much, he's like a mumbeling parot. Constantly making fake promisses.

Thanks for your input-- it really moves the thread along. Let me help you with your spelling; mumbling; parrot, and promises. Let me offer the observation that the only "false promise" of which I am aware Mr. Jobs has made is the 3Ghz promise, which came from IBM. I (and I suspect most members of this site) happen to think Mr. Jobs does not talk enough; thus we come here to talk about his company and about rumors about what Apple may do next. Good luck with your ninth post!! :rolleyes:

[iGary]

I just want a dual-core PowerBook in PPC form. Now.

[Abstract]

Thanks for your input-- it really moves the thread along. Let me help you with your spelling; mumbling; parrot, and promises. Let me offer the observation that the only "false promise" of which I am aware Mr. Jobs has made is the 3Ghz promise, which came from IBM. I (and I suspect most members of this site) happen to think Mr. Jobs does not talk enough; thus we come here to talk about his company and about rumors about what Apple may do next. Good luck with your ninth post!! :rolleyes:

No need to jump on people's backs.

Here's a falsity by Jobs: Year of the laptop. Year of HD. The man does talk too much. Maybe he should learn to keep his big mouth shut until he actually sees these products when they are ready to start the testing phase, or a bit after that.

A few more HD products before the end of the year would be great, Jobsy.

[Dont Hurt Me]

God please no more agonizing years of more Moto Stagnation, Its sad enough they had to design the G5 because of NOTHING from motostink but now more years of motostagnation? I dont think i can bear it. Imagine if Powermacs were G4s, imagine a new dual 1.67 powermac :rolleyes: because thats what we would be stuck with. I think this contract is for motophones or other doohickies cause G4 just doesnt cut it when compared to anything else. Waiting on moto is like waiting for the cubs to win the series.

[Draelius]

Thanks for your input-- it really moves the thread along. Let me help you with your spelling; mumbling; parrot, and promises. Let me offer the observation that the only "false promise" of which I am aware Mr. Jobs has made is the 3Ghz promise, which came from IBM. I (and I suspect most members of this site) happen to think Mr. Jobs does not talk enough; thus we come here to talk about his company and about rumors about what Apple may do next. Good luck with your ninth post!! :rolleyes:

The whole year of the notebook thing. Of course, I guess he could have been talking about any year.

[lopresmb]

yep, it these processors are for anything other than replacement parts for their current G4 lineup (or unless they actually do have some sort of dual core think cooking in the kitchen) it seems that sticking with G4 is shooting yourself in the foot.

I just keep on thinking, IF Apple does announce a dual - dual core PM G5 at Paris, just imagine how slow you G4 based products instanly start to feel. I mean 4 G5 cores running at 2.7 GHz, verses a G4 at 1.67 Ghz, ehhh :confused:

[BenRoethig]

Sounds like either shoring up Applecare or a contingency plan if the move to intel turns out to be a complete C.F.

[Fender2112]

My impression, which I'm sure others have already mentioned, is that this is for warranty purposes. If a person purchases a G4 computer today along with Apple's extended warranty, that machine must be covered through 2008. I would expect a similar agreement with IBM for G5 chips.

I read this as a sign that G4 Macs are about to be EOL. Which means Intel products are just around the corner. :D I'm guessing eMac or Mini will be the first ones.

[jwhitnah]

God please no more agonizing years of more Moto Stagnation, Its sad enough they had to design the G5 because of NOTHING from motostink but now more years of motostagnation? I dont think i can bear it. Imagine if Powermacs were G4s, imagine a new dual 1.67 powermac :rolleyes: because thats what we would be stuck with. I think this contract is for motophones or other doohickies cause G4 just doesnt cut it when compared to anything else. Waiting on moto is like waiting for the cubs to win the series.
Well said.

[KA2357]

Why would apple want chips till 2008?

To cover all of the 3-year Applecare agreements on current G4 products... even if Jobs announces a PowerBook upgrade to the Freescale 7448 next month.

[KA2357]

Ahh, Paris... The Eiffel Tower...The Arc de Triomphe...The Louvre...The Rue de Rivoli...The PowerBook G4 intègre un processeur Dual-Core PowerPC G4...

A dual-core G4 in a PowerBook? Highly doubtful. Much more possible is the 7448.

[Tom P]

They will supply the chipset for Apple's DVR "iHome"

[jiv3turkey748]

so apple is covering their butts, good job, although i can't say that i want the G4s to stick around any longer than they absolutely have to.

ya g4s are gettin a little outdated but hopefully there is a dual core model or at least one with higher fsb coming soon

[hob]

They will supply the chipset for Apple's DVR "iHome"
Yes please!

There was talk of a 900MHz G3 device as the last G3 iBooks were being produced...

[mrgreen4242]

this agreement means nothing to us. apple is just securing their spare parts and that's about it. how old the G4 is by 2008? no new products for it anymore :) actually, i was amazed they still wanted to use the chip for mini mac as they would very well have been able to underclock the G5 for it should they needed to...

Clock for clock the G4 is faster than the G5. Yes, the G5 has more potential than the G4 to go faster eventually (as it did), but if they were to underclock a G5 to, say, 1.5ghz is wouldn't be as fast as the G4 1.42 in the mini now, would generate more heat, and would cost more.

Also, the while 64bit-ness of the G5 would be absolutely wasted on the mini. It has ONE RAM SLOT. Even if it had two, it is IMPOSSIBLE for it to have more than 4gb RAM, which is the main/only advantage of a 64bit CPU.

[Ti_Poussin]

So if this is for Apple care reason, we should see all G4 model switching to PC processor by 31 december 2005, Apple care can cover 3 years. That sound to me that there will be a X86 switch soon for the Powerbook, Mac Mini, the eMac will be drop IMO.

Supposition:
Paris --> Powerbook move to centrino chip?
Mac Mini for christmas buying season

[powerbook911]

So if this is for Apple care reason, we should see all G4 model switching to PC processor by 31 december 2005, Apple care can cover 3 years. That sound to me that there will be a X86 switch soon for the Powerbook, Mac Mini, the eMac will be drop IMO.

Supposition:
Paris --> Powerbook move to centrino chip?
Mac Mini for christmas buying season

I think we'll see an Intel Mac at MWSF, in January, but not sooner.

[SiliconAddict]

Watch as everyone jumps to conclusions based on NOTHING. :rolleyes:

[~Shard~]

I don't see this as necessarily being a bad thing. Sure, the current G4s and their slow progression has left something to be desired, but if we see some dual core G4s out of this deal (possibly for the PowerBook, or if the PowerBook goes Intel first, then the iBook) or a chip for use in the rumored iHome or some similar new product, this could definitely be okay. If nothing else, at least Apple is covering its butt until 2008.

I know where people are coming from when they say, "G4s in 2008! Let the chip die, we'll be on the equivalent of G6s by then!" but if they are legitimate new chips (i.e. dual core) and not just minor speed-bumped versions of our current offerings, I can live with that. :cool:

[~Shard~]

Watch as everyone jumps to conclusions based on NOTHING. :rolleyes:

Too late. ;)

[kzin]

I don't suppose any of you actually went to freescale's web page to see what products they offer, did you? Nor have any of you heard of occam's razor?

Here's a hint: Freescale also produces ARM processors.

Does Apple use/buy ARM processors anywhere? Maybe in iPods?

While I would LOVE to see "iHome" move from the fan mock-up and into reality, so I can dump my DirecTivo's in favor of iHome (assuming it would support DirecTV tuning) ... the fact is, that's a pretty "out there" conclusion to reach when there's a much simpler and more supportable conclusion right in front of you. Thus, occam's razor: the simplest explanation is the best.

I know that in the past, Apple got their iPod processors from a company named PortalPlayer, but maybe they've shifted to Freescale since then? Or maybe that's what this deal is about. That makes a lot more sense than "keeping the PPC around longer than they said" or "finally getting around to releasing iHome, but doing it on PPC instead of Intel, during a time when they're starting the PPC->Intel transition".

The other likely explanation would be "hedging their bets". Apple is under no obligation to buy, it's just that Freescale is under obligation to deliver. This could just be extending their current arrangements just in case they need to keep buying G4's _IF_ the Intel transition takes longer than they expect. So, it's not that they know it will take longer, they're just doing due diligence to be sure they don't get left in the lurch if Intel doesn't come through.

I know, neither of those ("this is related to ARM for iPod" or "they're just signing an insurance policy") is quite as fun or sexy to speculate about as things like iHome .... but, really, this makes a lot of sense without having to reach into the realm of fantasy.

[psycho bob]

There is another option. This may simply be a creative payoff as I think someone started to talk about at the start of this thread. The fact is when the Intel announcement was made the talk was of IBM and what they would do, no one mentioned Freescale yet right now their chips mke up the majority of Apple computer sales. If IBM had their noses put out by SJ it stands to reason Freescale felt the same way.

I don't know when the current contract ends, I assume it was probably signed with Motorola and maybe topped up with the Freescale sell off, but it is plausible that Apple need a supply of low power PPC chips for another year and in order to keep everyone on side and cover themsleves they offered a longer than needed contract. This does not mean we will have G4's around in 2008, 3 years seems to be a pretty standard length of contract in the computer world. If Apple don't need the processors they won't buy them but this keeps the door open and also encourages continued development of new PPC chips.

The long discussed dual core G4 is apparently still in the pipeline and it is possible that this may still go to Apple. Judging by dual core CPU's in general the price will be high, maybe too high for Apple to feel they can use it in just one incarnation of machines. The longer contract may simply be a way to get a better deal for short term supply.

I assume this is a supply and demand contract with Apple not offering to buy a set quota so some kind of retaining fee will no doubt be involved. It is also possible that Freescale is planning on winding down G4 production in place of something else, this longer contract may simply be to garner enough supply to see them through the transition whilst spreading the cost over a greater period of time.

This needn't be bad news just good business sense. The talk is of all Apple products going Intel including iPod etc. I see no reason why a home entertainment system unless it is being released this year could not also use the new chip supplier. As far as the transition I think laptops will be first, and then G5 machines next assuming Intel keeps to its targets. Products like the mini could still be using the G4 into 2007 when it will no doubt be replaced with something completely new. Apple have many options but I think it will be the older products that get replaced first, the mini is relatively new and will no doubt have been invested in heavily, it can see out a 2 year life.

[chuckzee]

What's to stop Apple and Freescale from extending their contract a year or so down the line? I see this as Apple hedging their bets if the whole INhell thing doesn't pan out quite as anticipated. Expect a similar deal with IBM. I believe apple is really working on a two chip architecture solution. :D

[JFreak]

Clock for clock the G4 is faster than the G5. Yes, the G5 has more potential than the G4 to go faster eventually (as it did), but if they were to underclock a G5 to, say, 1.5ghz is wouldn't be as fast as the G4 1.42 in the mini now, would generate more heat, and would cost more.

yes, G4 clock cycle generates more output than G5 cycle, but that's not everything. the G5 is a whole lot more than just the chip, and in real life the data throughput of the G5 system is tremendously higher than a G4 system, even if the bus speed would be crippled like the iMac. we all know that the fast bus of a powermac generates almost as much heat as the cpu itself, but look at the iMac and see for yourself that heat is not an issue. and nothing points to G5 being more expensive than G4, and there's a reason to believe cost per chip would even become cheaper should IBM get more low-spec orders from apple enabling higher yields for them.

Also, the while 64bit-ness of the G5 would be absolutely wasted on the mini. It has ONE RAM SLOT. Even if it had two, it is IMPOSSIBLE for it to have more than 4gb RAM, which is the main/only advantage of a 64bit CPU.

not all 64bit advantage lies in exceeding the 4GB memory barrier. some scientific apps just will not run with a 32bit system, period. 64bits is the future and we will see many more software titles taking advantage of some clever algorighms that programmers have been waiting to use, and sticking with 32bit systems is just wrong, very un-apple-ish i'd say, as that belongs to the past.

yes, currently 32bit systems can still challenge 64bit systems whenever apps can run on both platforms, but how long is that the case? i'd be happy if the industry would just decide to jump to 64bit systems overnight, but we all know it's only a dream.

(mini mac could easily hold two memory modules were it designed to do so. there's space for it. this is however one of the points that i was referring to earlier by saying apple doesn't yet have enough experience regarding 64bit motherboard designs. nobody has, except digital who has had alpha for 13 years...)

[psycho bob]

Here's a hint: Freescale also produces ARM processors.

Does Apple use/buy ARM processors anywhere? Maybe in iPods?


The iPod does not use Freescale embedded ARM products. I believe they did move from Portal, or there was talk of it. Intel make embedded chips as well, there is no reason one of these would not be used if they wanted one single chip maker. I think the Intel chip is called Xscale(?).

[JFreak]

if we see some dual core G4s out of this deal

why would apple design a new motherboard for a dual core G4 powerbook now that steve has already said they will begin using intels very soon? that's a move that also requires a mobo redesign, and that's the next mobo change i can see.

[SiliconAddict]

I think we'll see an Intel Mac at MWSF, in January, but not sooner.


++ Agreed. Apple needs to give their developers at least half a year before they start the transition. I think there would be more then a few developers who would be really pissed off if Apple introed their first x86 system 4 months after telling people that they are moving.

I would like to say this this is purely a cover your assets type move but until Apple Expo's keynote happens making any speculation on what this means would be a complete shot in the dark.

but if they are legitimate new chips (i.e. dual core) and not just minor speed-bumped versions of our current offerings, I can live with that.

you may be able to live with it but I think there are going to be A LOT of pissed off people, me included, all because Apple isn't updating already dilapidated hardware with transition hardware. If this thing was a brand spanking new G5 PowerBook. Yah. Fine. It can last a while. But the thing is 2 year old G4 hardware. If they are going to make any revamps to the system they should simply bite the bullet and just get it done. I as much as the next person want apple to take their time and get the entire system right from firmware to chipset to CPU. But for the love of god any G4 that comes on the market at this point is hardly future proofing your purchase. Its one thing if it’s a Mac Mini. $500-700 rather minor purchase in the grand scheme of things. But a 2000+ purchase? Whatever. I need to go get some caffeine in me. Just woke up. I don't even know if that makes any sense...up way to late trying to figure out how to put together a wiki. *flops and passes out*

[Yvan256]

That's my thought too. What's in this for Freescale?

I guess the deal must be something along the lines of "If Apple buys G4-class processors, it must buy them from Freescale".

I wouldn't mind a Freescale G4 in a palmtop computer that runs the full version of OS X. I don't want anything from Microsoft (PocketPCs are out) and PalmOS is too weird (reminds me of Windows 3.11). Why did Palm buy BeOS for? They're not doing anything with it!

[~Shard~]

why would apple design a new motherboard for a dual core G4 powerbook now that steve has already said they will begin using intels very soon? that's a move that also requires a mobo redesign, and that's the next mobo change i can see.

Actually, that's a very good point - thanks for the insight. :cool:

you may be able to live with it but I think there are going to be A LOT of pissed off people, me included, all because Apple isn't updating already dilapidated hardware with transition hardware. If this thing was a brand spanking new G5 PowerBook. Yah. Fine. It can last a while. But the thing is 2 year old G4 hardware. If they are going to make any revamps to the system they should simply bite the bullet and just get it done.

And another excellent point I hadn't really thought of. Perhaps Apple should be concentrating on redesigning their systems to incorporate new hardware and chip architectures, as opposed to old ones.

Kay, I'm starting to change my opinion now... thanks guys... :o ;)

[SiliconAddict]

why would apple design a new motherboard for a dual core G4 powerbook now that steve has already said they will begin using intels very soon? that's a move that also requires a mobo redesign, and that's the next mobo change i can see.

The only possibility is that they are waiting for Merom in Fall of 2006 which really IS the next generation of the Pentium M. A 1 year timeframe MIGHT be worth it to Apple to create a mobo for a dual core G4....As much as I LOATH the idea I see some possibility there. It really depends on what they come out with next month at Apple Expo. Sept 2005’s AE is going to really tell us where Apple is going in the next 6 months with their hardware. January would be too late for a dual CPU G4 to be introed but Sept. Its right on the edge but I think it’s a “possibility” God. I need to get drunk. That idea just doesn’t sit well with me.

[Sun Baked]

There is another option. This may simply be a creative payoff as I think someone started to talk about at the start of this thread. The fact is when the Intel announcement was made the talk was of IBM and what they would do, no one mentioned Freescale yet right now their chips mke up the majority of Apple computer sales. If IBM had their noses put out by SJ it stands to reason Freescale felt the same way.A payoff+purchase option is about the only thing that makes sense, it's a common way to end long-standing relationships without major litigation and keep the relationship intact.

The CPUs in the fab are a paltry sum that Apple could always buy outright, and clearance them out at a later date.

The actual cost of design of some of the stuff designed for Apple, that Freescale cannot recoup the R&D expense at the new lower production levels -- is a big sum (ie, dual core and the 7448.)

If Apple doesn't buy any of the new CPUs, Freescale stands to lose a big wad of money. Your major customer just walked.

Repair parts ... Apple can always buy on the open market or from Freescale. And Freescale does keep a bunch of drop in replacements in the pipe for the embedded market. Apple's repair stock or 10k unit order shouldn't dent this unless a entire revision cycle needs to be included in a G4 REP.

When a dual core or 7448 is designed for Apple, and Apple declines to use it -- they have lost the majority of that products sales. Freescale had bet the farm and Apple, and they have finally walked.

This like Wal-Mart deciding to stop buying from a supplier that had bet the farm on their Wal-Mart account.

[nagromme]

What's in it for Freescale? Some sales--maybe not many, but if it's just selling replacement chips that have already been developed anyway (and if a few more months of BIG orders were part of the negotiation) then I can see it. Besides, Apple may have agreed to pay unusually HIGH prices for small quantities, to make it practical for Freescale. Also, Freescale makes other chips besides CPUs, don't they? Maybe it's a relationship Freescale wants to keep up for other reasons.

What's in it for Apple? Fulfilling their AppleCare commitments on the next few months of G4 Macs that get sold. And getting some faster new G4 chips too probably--for one more revision or so--but that part won't last long. Soon it will be just replacement chips, and an agreement Apple wants "just in case."

And maybe the option to unveil the super new PowerMac G4 (alongside the ROKR phone) at WWDC 2008, if Intel just can't deliver :D

[Yvan256]

Watch as everyone jumps to conclusions based on NOTHING. :rolleyes:

mov AX, $0000
jmp @conclusions

;-)

[EricNau]

I think Apple made the contract last til 2008 just to be on the safe side. They may not plan on getting anything from this company after 2007, but in the unlikely event that the trasition takes longer than expected, they'll still have processers. I think Apple chose 2008 thinking "It's better to be safe than sorry!"

[kwnd]

Yeah, if you buy a G4 based mac just before the middle of 2006 and buy applecare for it, Apple would still need to have a stockpile of those systems until the middle of 2009.

Guaranteeing a supply of chips until the end of 2008 would ensure that I guess.

I don't think this is anything but Apple covering themselves against disgruntled PPC owners who need replacement chips.

Have you seen the new Intel roadmap? Those are the chips they'll be using for embedded systems.

Bingo. Thank you.

In fact, if I remember correctly, Apple provides parts for up to 5-7 years after the last sale of a product. I believe this has something to do with various state laws, but don't quote me on that. ;)

Apple always replaces like for like. If you bought a computer with a 4x SuperDrive and it needs to be replaced under the warranty or AppleCare, even if lowest speed SuperDrive current shipping in new computers is 8x, and even if the new PowerMacs have 16x drivers, you're going to get a 4x drive. No exceptions. Apple isn't going to start dropping Intels in to old G4s just because they need a replacement part. They want you to have to buy a new one at some point, after all. :)

This deal does not signify that Apple believes the transition to Intel will take longer than expected. Nor does it signify that they are planning on sticking with the G4 for certain applications (home media device, tablet PC, whatever).

This isn't a clue in to new products, not a brave new branching out for the company. This is a boring, day to day practical/logistical consideration.

[Yarvin]

I have a question: Does a speed bump on a ~1.5GHz processor with only a 167MHz single-channel, single-data-rate (from what I've read the G4 doesn't use the DDR features, even though it uses DDR chips) FSB really do any good? Isn't the FSB bottleneck vastly more significant than the processor speeds at such high speeds?

[VanNess]

I read this as a sign that G4 Macs are about to be EOL. Which means Intel products are just around the corner. :D I'm guessing eMac or Mini will be the first ones.

Don't forget that Jobs said (at the WWDC keynote about the Intel switch) that they are a lot of "great" new PPC products in the pipeline that have yet to be introduced. Actually, he said that more than once in the keynote and, so far, we havn't seen any.

Watch as everyone jumps to conclusions based on NOTHING. :rolleyes:


But that's the reason (http://www.misterbg.org/AppleProductCycle/) why we're all here, lol.

[rosalindavenue]

The whole year of the notebook thing. Of course, I guess he could have been talking about any year.

The "year of the notebook" was not a promise. And I think it had more going for it in the way of notebooks than this year, the "year of HD," has going for high definition video. :(

[heisetax]

That's my thought too. What's in this for Freescale?


Why not? THey already have the wquipment to do the job. Some of the older machines would probably need some older slower ones that had in the past missed the speed mark.

Bill the TaxMan

[pigwin32]

The only possibility is that they are waiting for Merom in Fall of 2006 which really IS the next generation of the Pentium M. A 1 year timeframe MIGHT be worth it to Apple to create a mobo for a dual core G4....As much as I LOATH the idea I see some possibility there. It really depends on what they come out with next month at Apple Expo. Sept 2005’s AE is going to really tell us where Apple is going in the next 6 months with their hardware. January would be too late for a dual CPU G4 to be introed but Sept. Its right on the edge but I think it’s a “possibility” God. I need to get drunk. That idea just doesn’t sit well with me.
It's a weird situation. The dual-core G4 is a worthy chip but would require wholesale changes to the PB architecture. This alone makes it unlikely, tooling up for a new mobo has got to be expensive. I foresee the 7448(?) pin compatible dropped into the existing architecture providing a minor speed bump perhaps plus lower power consumption but very little else.

The Yonah sounds like a decent PB chip, obviously also requiring a completely new mobo and paving the way for a new enclosure and high-res display. But who wants to own a rev A PB based on a completely new chip architecture.

What is perhaps a little surprising is that despite the impending switch to Intel and the perception that the PBs are well overdue for a refresh, Apple is selling truckloads of them. Joe Customer is ignoring the specs and buying the Apple experience.

Personally I'm still a bit sad we won't be seeing the freescale dually in a PB and I still mistrust Intel, their business practices are not dissimilar to MS. But if they can deliver on their roadmap and Apple can innovate on top of the new chips my next PB will be an impressive beast. And Intel have said they're having much less difficulty moving to the 65nm process than the transition to 90nm.

[Prom1]

My god I've owned a Mac - not purchased but on loan - for only 3 months of my life, most of you purchased & still own a Mac much longer, seem to forget the philosphy that is Apple.

1) First to ship A/V adapter imbedded for Video encoding (NTSC) & editing or just watching a TV channel on the screen.

2) First to ship a computer WITHOUT a Floppy drive, just CD.

3) First to ship a mouse to the mainstream market, not just business machines (aka IBM).

4) First to offer Wireless products within computers as an option, and Ad-Hoc/Infrastructure Access Points to the public home/business users.

5) First to offer 17" Display on a Laptop; whether you wanna call it NoteBook/Laptop.

Well you now catch my drift. Whats the point?? Apple mentioned the "year of the laptop" exactly 1 year before sales for any computer manufacturer went through the rough - This year.

The "Year of HD", reference by Mr. Jobs also is a year in advanced. HDTV channels or any import of TV's from ANY manufacturer into the USA must commence by March 2006 in ANY size & must support 1080p resolution format; if I'm not mistaken mandated by the USA government??

[stockscalper]

I'd love to see the dual core Freescale dual core in a Powerbook more than anything Intel has to offer.

[bbyrdhouse]

I guess the deal must be something along the lines of "If Apple buys G4-class processors, it must buy them from Freescale".

I wouldn't mind a Freescale G4 in a palmtop computer that runs the full version of OS X. I don't want anything from Microsoft (PocketPCs are out) and PalmOS is too weird (reminds me of Windows 3.11). Why did Palm buy BeOS for? They're not doing anything with it!

I suspect you are right about the first part of your post. I don't believe that there is anything major here just a reassurance to Freescale that Apple will continue to use their chips through 2008.

Aslo, is Palm still in business??? ;)

Pocket PC is soooooo long in the tooth. Apple could realy capitolize on the PDA/Phone market with one that run a version of OSX. I also think that this would really increase the sales of computers in the process. Seemless intigration. You dont really get that from WinXP and Pocket PC.

[EricNau]

Is the Pentium M from Intel really any good? How does it comapre with the P4? And what is this new Pentuim D I keep seeing? What do you guys think will replace the G5? Will it be as good, and will it be 64 bit?
Intel is just too confusing...

[Mero]

APPLECARE

LEGALLY BINDING CONTRACT FORCING THEM TO HAVE A SUPPLY.

iBook, Powerbooks, eMacs, and Mac Minis still hail from Freescale. 3 Year warranties will bring them well into 2008.

[Mero]

I'd love to see the dual core Freescale dual core in a Powerbook more than anything Intel has to offer.

uh...too bad what intel has to offer is already better in terms of DC so...rethink that logic.

[EricNau]

How does everyone remember what posts they have posted? Do they make a bookmark for everypage in their browser? Just curious (I know it's off topic).

[NicP]

Is the Pentium M from Intel really any good? How does it comapre with the P4? And what is this new Pentuim D I keep seeing? What do you guys think will replace the G5? Will it be as good, and will it be 64 bit?
Intel is just too confusing...

Yes the pentium m is good! a 1.6 pentium m is roughly comparable to a p4 2.4.

The pentium d is just a dual core p4

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentium_m

i think conroe will replace the G5's in powermacs but thats purely speculation

[NicP]

How does everyone remember what posts they have posted? Do they make a bookmark for everypage in their browser? Just curious (I know it's off topic).

click on search > advanced search > insert your name in the "find posts by username"

[Sun Baked]

APPLECARE

LEGALLY BINDING CONTRACT FORCING THEM TO HAVE A SUPPLY.

iBook, Powerbooks, eMacs, and Mac Minis still hail from Freescale. 3 Year warranties will bring them well into 2008.Even without a contract, Freescale will still be making G4s -- Apple isn't the only buyer, but is probably the biggest buyer of computer spec chips.

Replacement parts from Freescale will exist without the contract. If you look at Freescales site, as soon as a CPU gets a replacement Freescale cancels them. All the 1-1.2GHz 7447s are EOL and unavailable.

Even with a contract Apple won't be able to keep buying the current 7447A, since Freescale is even starting to EOL some of those chips -- they'll probably have to buy current replacements in a year or two, the 7448.

Because of the embedded market, one of the reasons we never got drastic change -- was because Motorola wanted to maintain drop in replacements.

The G5 would be a problematic beast after the end of production, unlike the G4.

The G5 was supposed to capture G4 sales, and get people to shift away from other embedded chips. It failed miserably, without Apple -- volume production should be questionable, heck any continued production after Apple is questionable.

I don't see why people think the G4 is going to die without an Apple contract, it stands a good chance of living for a long long time ...

[pjkelnhofer]

This is most likely for Freescale's e600 G4 processors, the dual core with extremely low power consumption models...


Do you have anything to base this on other than the mere existence of those chips?

[pjkelnhofer]

...
TheStreet speculates (http://www.thestreet.com/_mktwrm/stocks/troywolverton/10240000.html) that this is a sign of a longer transition timeline. In its own report (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0508freescale.html), Think Secret echoes this possibility but points out that it could just as well be a contingency plan or be intended to allow Apple to buy replacement chips for older models.

The Street article is pretty weak. Basically, the author (Troy Wolverton) says that there is nothing to indicate this is for anything other than spare parts or a contigency plan if there is problem with the Intel change over. Then he adds
But the deal could indicate that Apple is worried that a delay is possible or even probable.
with absolutely nothing to back it up. I hate pure speculation.

[iQuit]

Here is what I think....Apple is playing it safe and also doesn't want to lie about AppleCare as well. They need some type of supply, not to mention Jobs said new PPC products are still yet to come. Also some of you are forgetting that once the Intel Macs come out that the PPC won't be absolete for years to come, the Intel Macs will slowly move in...and PPC Macs will still be rolling out of the line. I better get a new PB at the Sept. Expo or I will be pissed, I have been holding out on a new PB for a while.

[Sun Baked]

Here is what I think....Apple is playing it safe and also doesn't want to lie about AppleCare as well. They need some type of supply, not to mention Jobs said new PPC products are still yet to come. Also some of you are forgetting that once the Intel Macs come out that the PPC won't be absolete for years to come, the Intel Macs will slowly move in...and PPC Macs will still be rolling out of the line. I better get a new PB at the Sept. Expo or I will be pissed, I have been holding out on a new PB for a while.This has nothing to do with AppleCare...

Either making use of the work in process or providing a payoff to Freescale.

You have to think that the next generation G4 should have been darn close to production about now, Apple may actually ship the next G4 machine.

Something may be done with the dual core, 7448s, etc. and the Intrepid2 chipset with the new FSB.

We may just see it ship soon, with that machine becoming a Notebook G4 that hangs around like the PowerMac G4 did... don't be surprised if we get more than a speedbump, even though Apple historically used to like a 18-24 month cost recovery for major redesigns.

Edit: Call this a major oops pointed out by the bean counters when they sat down and laid out the realities of the switch, and canceling projects in the pipe.

[digitalbiker]

Apple always replaces like for like. If you bought a computer with a 4x SuperDrive and it needs to be replaced under the warranty or AppleCare, even if lowest speed SuperDrive current shipping in new computers is 8x, and even if the new PowerMacs have 16x drivers, you're going to get a 4x drive. No exceptions. Apple isn't going to start dropping Intels in to old G4s just because they need a replacement part. They want you to have to buy a new one at some point, after all. :)


I have been upgraded by Apple several times on AppleCare plans. My last Ti 800mhz PB with ATI mobility GPU developed a logic board problem 2 weeks before my Applecare expired. Apple replaced it with a Ti 1 Ghz with a much faster combo-drive, GPU, the works. They even upgraded me to iLife 04 at the time when I didn't own iLife.

[irobot2003]

Bingo. Thank you.

In fact, if I remember correctly, Apple provides parts for up to 5-7 years after the last sale of a product. I believe this has something to do with various state laws, but don't quote me on that. ;)

Apple always replaces like for like. If you bought a computer with a 4x SuperDrive and it needs to be replaced under the warranty or AppleCare, even if lowest speed SuperDrive current shipping in new computers is 8x, and even if the new PowerMacs have 16x drivers, you're going to get a 4x drive. No exceptions. Apple isn't going to start dropping Intels in to old G4s just because they need a replacement part. They want you to have to buy a new one at some point, after all. :)

This deal does not signify that Apple believes the transition to Intel will take longer than expected. Nor does it signify that they are planning on sticking with the G4 for certain applications (home media device, tablet PC, whatever).

This isn't a clue in to new products, not a brave new branching out for the company. This is a boring, day to day practical/logistical consideration.

I don't believe this has anything to do with AppleCare, just Apple covering themselves in case Intel has problems implementing their roadmap.

I'd find it hard to believe that Apple keeps an assembly line for a discontinued product going 3 years after end of life. I imagine they have reasonably good statistics on failure rates and build enough spares ahead of time to cover what is required by AppleCare. If they fall short they can use refurbs, or replace with a newer model. In 20 years of PC use I have never personally seen a CPU die (even when fans have quit)... so in addition, I imagine it's pretty rare.

[llothar]

why would apple design a new motherboard for a dual core G4 powerbook now that steve has already said they will begin using intels very soon? that's a move that also requires a mobo redesign, and that's the next mobo change i can see.

Sure they won't start now with a new motherboard design, but it seems that the decision for the switch was not made a long time before the last keynote.

So consider the designphase of a complete mainboard (especially if it is not a simple upgrade) to 9-12 month. This means that there is a high chance that apple has something in the pipeline.

And it would also be a sign to the customers. If they don't do anything now everybody would consider the G5 PowerMacs and G4 PowerBooks to be abandoned hardware and not buy it. When the switch takes until end 2007 then this means a huge decrease in sales. I think we will see this next time we get numbers. So keeping the trust in the G4/G5 it seems reasonable to release at least some new products.

For me it makes sense that we see something dual in the next future. And don't you think that Apple want to get the fame for being the first hardware vendor selling dual core notebooks ? In the past this was always one of the "think different" parts in Apples marketing compaines.

[hulugu]

Watch as everyone jumps to conclusions based on NOTHING. :rolleyes:

I thought that was SOP? Our typical MO? Our reason for posting? Our reason, dare I say, for our existance?

I don't know what to think about this nuggest of information, is Apple going to continue with the G4? Has Apple decided to work with three separate suppliers and two architectures in order to protect themselves from the old processor malaise that they've experienced over the past years? That's seems like a logistical nightmare. Something else is happening.

[AidenShaw]

2) First to ship a computer WITHOUT a Floppy drive, just CD.

4) First to offer Wireless products within computers as an option, and Ad-Hoc/Infrastructure Access Points to the public home/business users.


2) No floppy - what outstanding innovation.

4} Don't do any research on Orinoco or Digital's Roamabout - products which preceded Apple's 802.11b products by years.

[Xapplimatic]

Freescale is obliged to provide G4 chips untill 31, December 2008 :eek: I hope Apple is just be cautious and not thinking off using the chips until that time.

Just what's wrong with using Freescale's chips exactly? Today's G4 chips are fairly solid performers for lower end and laptop models. Intel's promises about 10x performance increases may end up being complete vaporware. It's happened before. Apple is very smart to sign this kind of contract. Freescale is delivering dual core chips now. It won't be long before Freescale has power use down to be able to provide dual core chips that are laptop compatible. This is exactly the kind of performance boost Apple needs in the interim that doesn't require major design changes to accomodate while they work on their new Intel designs.. It's a very smart move to give themselves the option to use whatever the best available chip vendor is at the moment.. Apple could even decide to stay with PPC much longer or indefinitely if Intel doesn't deliver. Freescale seems to be much more agressively improving their designs than Motorola. They may even enter the G5 market at some point going 64 bit with their line, biting into IBM's niche.

[JFreak]

Freescale is delivering dual core chips now. It won't be long before Freescale has power use down to be able to provide dual core chips that are laptop compatible. This is exactly the kind of performance boost Apple needs in the interim that doesn't require major design changes to accomodate while they work on their new Intel designs..

major or minor, up to the reader, but that change would require a new motherboard, which i think apple will not design at this point. should that happen, we could easily expect three(ish) dual-core revisions, which would mean intel powerbooks in january 2008. give or take half a year.

i think apple puts one more single-core g4 revision before intels, but that's it. maybe even up to 2.0GHz speed if freescale can deliver, but the G4 is at the end of its line now as far as apple sees it.

[w_parietti22]

2) No floppy - what outstanding innovation.

are you saying that having no floppy was a bad thing???? I think it helped flash drives take off.

[~Shard~]

are you saying that having no floppy was a bad thing???? I think it helped flash drives take off.

I think he's just saying it's not that big a deal in the grand scheme of things (which definitely could be argued I suppose, if you feel differently). Why not mention then how Apple moved away from the 5 1/4" drives as well then? ;) Compared to other Apple "innovations", like being one of the first to adopt USB for instance, perhaps dropping the floppy drives wasn't a huge deal. Of course if you feel differently, that's cool. :)

[JFreak]

perhaps dropping the floppy drives wasn't a huge deal

no. but it happened in 1997 and only just now the rest of the pc industry have begun to drop legacy support, a transition that might go on for years. in this regard, one could say apple was ten years ahead ;)

[~Shard~]

no. but it happened in 1997 and only just now the rest of the pc industry have begun to drop legacy support, a transition that might go on for years. in this regard, one could say apple was ten years ahead ;)

Very true. Perhaps the timing in this case, and what it represents, is more important than the item itself. After all, it's just a floppy drive. :o ;)

[LethalWolfe]

No need to jump on people's backs.

Here's a falsity by Jobs: Year of the laptop. Year of HD. The man does talk too much. Maybe he should learn to keep his big mouth shut until he actually sees these products when they are ready to start the testing phase, or a bit after that.

A few more HD products before the end of the year would be great, Jobsy.

iMovie HD. iDVD 5. FCE HD. FCP 5. DVD SP 4. H.264.

The problem w/releasing consumer HD hardware now is that the security specs have changed and I'm not even sure if they are finalized yet (hopefully not and they'll change again to be less restrictive). Why release an HD device that won't work with HD content (movies & TV) once the new security measures get rolled out?


Lethal

[alex_h]

I realize that the press treats Apple like a small and scrappy company, but it is an $8 billion company, in the high 200s on the Fortune 500 list. It needs to execute.

They have contracts to sell devices. Who knows, they may have contracts to deliver G4 iBooks to schools or government installations.

Remember how they started shipping machines that couldn't book OS 9, they maintained OS 9 booting G4s for another year or so.

While graphic designers are the visible "artsy" crowd for Mac, Adobe will rev all their products FAST. It isn't a terribly hard port compared to the 9->X port, and Adobe already HAS x86 code for anything that is hand optimized. While it isn't a trivial rev, the one year transition was more than enough for them.

Remember the audio crowd? Apple has been the leader in that market, and while the OS X transition was painful for them, these guys did it, albeit slowly. Remember, there are markets that need STABLE systems. If Photoshop crashes, it's annoying. If you lose a live-concert recording, you're screwed.

Apple will maintain G4-based Macs (and maybe G5, depending on the deal with IBM) for at LEAST 1 year beyond their phase out for anyone that needs to add Macs and can't make the x86 trasition. They also landed a bunch of government contracts, like the Navy Xserve deal, and they are going to fulfill those. The Navy will NOT want to make a PPC->x86 transition until their next procurement process, so Apple wants to sell machines.

Apple sells $8 BILLION dollars worth of stuff, and it isn't all based upon Job's giving speeches.

My Powerbook G4 1Ghz is 3 years old in October. The accounting lifespan of a machine is 3 years, because that's how long they generally last. Those with 800 MHz PB G4s can upgrade to 1.67Ghz, and get twice their old 3 year old machine. For my era, there is not upgrade, you normally get a machine 2-3x fast when you upgrade. A dual-core powerbook is a REAL possibility. It is also possible that they ship Powerbook G4s AND Powerbook x86s (or xBooks/xStations and retire the Power name) in the beginning.

Remember the audio crowd? A lot of them use Powerbooks with fancy Firewire hookup boxes. Remember, when the Powermacs wouldn't ship more than 3 slots, people moved from hardware cards which dominated the industry for years, to Firewire breakout boxes.

You lose sales if you can't sell them usable hardware, and if their stuff is still PPC only...

[Surreal]

^^^^


everything he said...except, i would like a G5 for the sake of a FSB and RAM speed. in box sound creation kills bandwidth.

but losing audio to crashes hurts in a special way.

[iQuit]

Apple has done a lot of great things...

1. IEEE1394 which Apple was the first to use (Firewire)

2.The creation of the Spreadsheet

3.The first successful personal computer (The Apple II)

4.The iPod which is the most successful MP3 player on the market

5.Quicktime

6.One of the first laptops to have bluetooth and 802.11 built in (if not the first)

7.The creation of OS X which is based on UNIX and the most advanced OS

8.The Mac Mini

9.I can keep going on but this is just to add to that one guy's post.


I love PPC, I think Intel is a wrong step and that The PPC is the Apple as we know it now. The architecture is totally different and I just hope this works out for the best. God Bless.

[Sun Baked]

everything he said...except, i would like a G5 for the sake of a FSB and RAM speed. in box sound creation kills bandwidth.

but losing audio to crashes hurts in a special way.Heck a DDR 200MHz FSB would be a vast improvement of what is used now on the PowerBooks.

The problem with the G5's memory bus is that it is a power hog, and as you slow down the bus with a slower multiplier -- performance tanks.

Look at the H.264 where the iMac G5 performed significantly worse than the PowerMac SP G5s.

---

We may see something special for the last round of G4 Notebooks.

[hulugu]

2) No floppy - what outstanding innovation.

4} Don't do any research on Orinoco or Digital's Roamabout - products which preceded Apple's 802.11b products by years.

Apple wasn't the first, but the first Airport Base Station and Airport cards were miles ahead of the compeition in ease-of-use and Apple's optional wireless on their laptops helped begin wireless computing as an idea; this was followed up and capitalized by Intel's Centrino and the associated ads. But, I would give Apple credit for making wireless, like USB, and Mp3 players something people actually wanted and knew what to do with.

[iQuit]

Does anyone think Jobsy has made the switch due to price and that Macs will probably sell better? Intel manufactures them at next to nothing and for some reason...people buy Intel. I think Apple shouldn't switch and just stick with "what works" and what Macs a Mac a well "Mac". PowerPC's just have great achitecture and the G4 was half the size of the Pentium 4 and ran faster because it is effecient. I hope there isn't too many problems with the Intel Macs....something just doesn't feel right. And who knows... next could be excepting parts from other companies and turning the Mac into a ordinary PC with a different OS. Apple is known for being and "thinking different" and yet now they are being the same as everyone else. Don't bash me if I am wrong, I am only 14 and probably have nowhere near the knowhow of you guys.


edit: What is going to happen with Photoshop? Will the performance on it be as good as it is on the PPC, because on the Intel PC's it is nowhere near as good....not to mention lightwave and other Apps.

[iQuit]

I have been using my PC lately because I need something fast and I have been wanting a PB for a while and have been waiting for the right time. Come September if there is no new PB I will be so pissed, If there is one though I will buy it for sure. And I won't be buying a Mactel for a good while, first I don't trust them, and second I will get a later Revision. Please Apple give the PB a speedboost and or better FSB....any extras would be nice! :D

[AnAppleADay]

It would be quite unfortunate if we all had to live with G4's until 2008...Though I highly doubt that would be the case.

[~loserman~]

Apple wasn't the first, but the first Airport Base Station and Airport cards were miles ahead of the compeition in ease-of-use and Apple's optional wireless on their laptops helped begin wireless computing as an idea; this was followed up and capitalized by Intel's Centrino and the associated ads.

You must be kidding. Apple's Base Station is ABSOLUTELY the WORST 802.11x device ever made. It is total junk. It is much more difficult to use/setup and has been behind the curve all along when it comes to security and features.
What a piece of crap product it is.

Oh wait it must be better because it looks like a mushroom and has an Apple logo.

[d.perel]

You must be kidding. Apple's Base Station is ABSOLUTELY the WORST 802.11x device ever made. It is total junk. It is much more difficult to use/setup and has been behind the curve all along when it comes to security and features.
What a piece of crap product it is.

Oh wait it must be better because it looks like a mushroom and has an Apple logo.
Personally, I think that 100% of ALL wireless routers/base stations are on the same level of "crap" you compare the Apple products to. I have never been able to adequately figure out most of the features on linksys, apple, or other wireless base stations/routers without calling in a professional from one of those geek squads. I hope WiMax will make this better. (i hope...)

[iQuit]

I use DLINK and it seems to be the best that I have used, features are super simple to setup and has a nice setup interface....to go to the setting you just type 192.168.0.1 and it goes to it.

[RobHague]

edit: What is going to happen with Photoshop? Will the performance on it be as good as it is on the PPC, because on the Intel PC's it is nowhere near as good....not to mention lightwave and other Apps.

Saw this and didnt see any responses? Interesting question.... :confused:

Maybe by the time the IntelMacs arrive the CPU's will be clocked so high, and as well as being dual core - will just outperform the G5's anyway because they are just newer. Not clock for clock but it would be like pitting a P3 1Ghz against an P4 3.2Ghz :confused:

EDIT:
I personally would rather buy a PPC based Mac. No matter what Intels roadmap might look like surley what IBM would have had by the time the new Intel kit arrived would be at the very least competitve! Lets not forget the biggest weapon apple have - Mac OSX. Rather than a arcitecture switch i think apple just needed to get more [software] support going for the OS! Maybe going to x86 will make that easyer but its still UNIX so i dont see how.

But i will try not to be influanced by the name on their new CPU's i guess until the actual products arrive... :p...

[heisetax]

Thanks for your input-- it really moves the thread along. Let me help you with your spelling; mumbling; parrot, and promises. Let me offer the observation that the only "false promise" of which I am aware Mr. Jobs has made is the 3Ghz promise, which came from IBM. I (and I suspect most members of this site) happen to think Mr. Jobs does not talk enough; thus we come here to talk about his company and about rumors about what Apple may do next. Good luck with your ninth post!! :rolleyes:


THe title says it all.

Bill the TaxMan

[SteveJ84]

THAT'S IT, I CAN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE, I NEED APPLE TO ANNOUNCE SOMETHING NEW!!!!! I'M GOING CRAZY!!! IT'S BEEN OVER 5 WEEKS SINCE APPLE'S HOMEPAGE HAS BEEN UPDATED!! I at least want Think Secret or someone to at least post one of there famous spoilers! Oh well looks like I'm gonna be stuck looking at the Mighty Mouse on Apple Homepage until the 21st of September! BAAAAAAA

[gregoryp]

So where exactly does it say Freescale has to supply Apple with G4 chips?

Under the terms of the deal, inked on Monday, Freescale is required to supply chips to Apple for all orders placed through Dec. 31, 2008. However, Apple notes that it "is under no obligation to purchase Freescale microprocessors other than work in progress that was in place at the time the agreement was executed."

Freescale makes chips for other devices as well...like phones...perhaps even iPod phones. Apple knows these guys are the best when it comes to low power embeded chips, and I suspect they secured the source for some upcoming non-computing product plans. That being said, Apple is probably on the hook for the new 7448's since they were already "work in progress".

[BenRoethig]

Yes the pentium m is good! a 1.6 pentium m is roughly comparable to a p4 2.4.

The pentium d is just a dual core p4

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentium_m

i think conroe will replace the G5's in powermacs but thats purely speculation

Woodcrest (xeon version) more likely.

[AidenShaw]

You must be kidding. Apple's Base Station is ABSOLUTELY the WORST 802.11x device ever made. .
Although anecdotal proof is worthless, I must say that I've had more trouble using Airport access points than anything else (and I've been using wireless since Roamabout on Windows 3.1 days...).

No wait, Airport isn't quite as flaky as Windows 3.1 networking... :D

Linksys, d-link, Cisco, public access points all work fine. To use Airport APs, however, it's a game of resetting the link or rebooting in order to get or keep a high speed connection.

[synergy]

THAT'S IT, I CAN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE, I NEED APPLE TO ANNOUNCE SOMETHING NEW!!!!! I'M GOING CRAZY!!! IT'S BEEN OVER 5 WEEKS SINCE APPLE'S HOMEPAGE HAS BEEN UPDATED!! I at least want Think Secret or someone to at least post one of there famous spoilers! Oh well looks like I'm gonna be stuck looking at the Mighty Mouse on Apple Homepage until the 21st of September! BAAAAAAA


Your wish has been answered Steve. Macminute.com is reporting a special Apple event on September 7th. Speculation includes video ipod.
And of course the G4 could be used in a video pod.

[JFreak]

To use Airport APs, however, it's a game of resetting the link or rebooting in order to get or keep a high speed connection.

just about a month ago i would have totally agreed with you. i had more reliable wireless networking with a cheapo 3com B-spec base station than this current G-spec airport extreme BS, but lately this newest (4.2?) airport software version has changed it all. somehow it's great now. faster than any other wireless network that i use (and i use many wireless networks on a daily basis).

next time there's an airport upgrade on software update, i'm not going to install it. this version works like a charm.

[HD Max]

Well of course, we'll be getting dual core 1.7GHz G4s at Paris and we'll need a supply til end of 2008 for warranty purposes :)

[stephenli]

that means there are no Powerbook G5 on IBM's new "low power" G5 chips.........
we still continue to have Powerbook G4 till the end of PowerPC - OSX architecture..... :(