Miss World massacre...

[idkew]

so i am sure all you have read about the miss world massacre in nigeria.

i am curious to hear what you guys and gals think of it.



my thoughts-
i tried hard not to hate/prejudice all people of faith or non-american background. hard. i tried to believe that these murderous crazy people were the exception, not the rule. i don't want to be an *ist.

well, i am having a hard time doing this now. when a large portion of a city riots because of BEAUTY and chants god is great while torturing and murdering people, that is wrong. i don't care if you are conservative or not. the death penalty comes through due process, and stabbing someone then putting them in a tire filled with oil and burning them to death is not right. i don't care who you are, or what religion. right now, these "muslims" (i am trying not to condemn ALL Muslims) are not only giving their sane brethren a bad name, they are making me more and more want to support my country and show them a little something.

yes- i know i am saying fight violence with violence... but what can be done? anyone? killing people because we want to celebrate the beautiful human body which GOD made, just seems absolutely bassackwards and wrong to me.

anyone brave- jump on in. :confused: :confused: :confused:

[pc_convert?]

Okay I'm not condoning the violence but....

1) We know the northern parts of Nigeria are largely Muslim and that they practice Shariah law (even if we don't agree with it, we know they practice it). So holding a competition that violates their Islamic Shariah laws is going to be inflamitory. The miss world organisers should have thought about this especially due to the events of the past year.

2) Isn't miss world a bit outdated anyway? Does miss world really celebrate beauty, I think it celebrates vanity...

[groovebuster]

Originally posted by pc_convert?
Okay I'm not condoning the violence but....

1) We know the northern parts of Nigeria are largely Muslim and that they practice Shariah law (even if we don't agree with it, we know they practice it). So holding a competition that violates their Islamic Shariah laws is going to be inflamitory. The miss world organisers should have thought about this especially due to the events of the past year.

2) Isn't miss world a bit outdated anyway? Does miss world really celebrate beauty, I think it celebrates vanity...

I couldn't agree more...

groovebuster

[Ifeelbloated]

I've been wondering lately. Is the world going to Hell-in-a-handbasket. Or am I old enough to realize that the world has always been this f*cked up. I'm thinking it's the latter.

[Mr. Anderson]

Its just one more case of mass stupidity - someone got the crowds riled up and it got out of hand. The mob mentality is a strange thing, its like hiding behind a mask, you think you're annonymous and not responsible for your actions. I'm sure some of the individuals who were involved in the killing and burning are realizing they went too far.

D

[wdlove]

I glad that the pageant will continue. Can't let terrorist win.

[pc_convert?]

sorry, but where did you get the impression terroism is involved?

[Durandal7]

I think the newspaper is to blame. You know that people in that area can be somewhat fundamentalist at times so you write an article saying that Mohammed would have married one of the contestants?

They should have thought that one out.

[idkew]

Originally posted by Durandal7
I think the newspaper is to blame. You know that people in that area can be somewhat fundamentalist at times so you write an article saying that Mohammed would have married one of the contestants?

They should have thought that one out.

i agree that was a stupid thing to write, but what good did KILLING 100 PEOPLE do? they could have easily enacted a boycott, and hurt the newspaper that way. protested their sale...

Murder is not the answer or solution. And i don't want to hear about a mob mentality. Mother Teresa would not have tortured someone to death if everyone else was.

if everyone was shooting themselves in the leg, would you? i think not.


typos....

[Durandal7]

Originally posted by idkew


i agree that was a stupid thing to write, but what good did KILLING 100 PEOPLE do? they could have easily enacted a boycott, and hurt the newspaper that way. protested their sale...


I know that it was not the answer. All that I'm saying is that the newspaper should have known these people a little better. They should have known that some of the people in the area would rather incite a riot then to enact a boycott.

[Mr. Anderson]

Originally posted by Durandal7


I know that it was not the answer. All that I'm saying is that the newspaper should have known these people a little better. They should have known that some of the people in the area would rather incite a riot then to enact a boycott.

But if all it took was this one thing, well, all I can think is that it really wasn't about the pageant at all and anything could have set the mob off on a killing spree. This just happened to come along and be the first. I'd like to know more about who got the crowd/people worked up - that might be the real cause.

D

[topicolo]

Hey wait a second. Isn't November the month of Ramadan or something? Isn't it forbidden to swear, eat, or even think about committing a sin from sunrise to sundown? How could people who call themselves muslims go around killing people during the muslim holy month?

[Ifeelbloated]

With all due respect, I've met some Muslims and have had my share of experiences with other faiths' religious people and have found the vast majority of them very deluded. I'm sorry but that's the way I feel. I'm glad it gives some people structure and discipline - something that a lot of people who turn to religion need - but at the cost of good sensible reasoning. It just never ceases to amaze me.

[idkew]

death toll up to 215 now....

[mymemory]

The people is upset because they know Venezuela is gonna win again as allways do:)

[job]

Originally posted by topicolo
Hey wait a second. Isn't November the month of Ramadan or something? Isn't it forbidden to swear, eat, or even think about committing a sin from sunrise to sundown? How could people who call themselves muslims go around killing people during the muslim holy month?

I think it's in December, although I could be mistaken.

You do have a valid point though.

[Roger1]

I think Ramadan is in November, and that's why the Pageant was moved to the first week of December. I believe the date was movedout of respect for the muslim holiday.

[tibookowner]

Sometimes I think God must shake His head and mutter under his breath... This isn't what He intended...

[topicolo]

Originally posted by hitman


I think it's in December, although I could be mistaken.

You do have a valid point though.

Well... that doesn't explain why all of the Muslims I know are fasting this month very well.

[wdlove]

I wonder why American Muslim leaders don't publicly rennounce the violence against the innocent. So far when given the opportunity they say nothing.

[topicolo]

Originally posted by wdlove
I wonder why American Muslim leaders don't publicly rennounce the violence against the innocent. So far when given the opportunity they say nothing.

I don't think the media would take it. It wouldn't be "sensational" enough and it deprives people of an "enemy" to hate

[Mr. Anderson]

But they aren't our enemy - and yes, the media isn't covering all the sides to this, just the ones that get the better ratings and sell more papers. Pathetic.

[iGav]

Just read this on the BBC website.....

"It is binding on all Muslims wherever they are, to consider the killing of the writer as a religious duty" Mamuda Aliyu Shinkafi Zamfara deputy governor

One word..... "Moron"

[Bigfool]

Apparently the religious fanatics have infiltrated Ohio (G).

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20021126/ap_on_sp_co_ne/fbc_ohio_st_violence_6

[SPG]

I had heard that the story was a comic piece inside an editorial, and that the outrage was fueled by word of mouth, email, textmessaging, and cell phones. Few if any of the people involved had even read the story.

[tibookowner]

I don't have ANY probelm with Islam, although having mr. Farrakhan as a "Spiritual head" is not the "best advertising" that've ever heard of!

[hobie]

What I think is that those people are living where Christianity has been 500 years ago! Remember the medieval military expeditions in Europe that time, or witch burnings, or the totalitarian catholic church, deciding what's wrong and what not!?!

Luckily the western world has moved since then. But unfortunately some eastern, or poor, areas are still stuck in the 12th century, fighting all and everything they don't understand. Now mix that with some silly, selfish, power-greedy dudes and you get a picture.

It's all too sad though. Seems that mankind has been made to destroy itself... :rolleyes:

[tibookowner]

Very True! When was the last time you heard Mr. Farrakhan condemn the killing of innocents?

[topicolo]

Originally posted by hobie
What I think is that those people are living where Christianity has been 500 years ago! Remember the medieval military expeditions in Europe that time, or witch burnings, or the totalitarian catholic church, deciding what's wrong and what not!?!


The medieval military expeditions or "crusades" were to destroy the "evil arabs" who had taken the holy land.
What did the Europeans do when the captured Jerusalem? THEY KILL EVERY MAN, WOMAN, AND CHILD. The invading europeans slaughtered an entire city without any regard for human life.
Up until that time, the islamic arabs were peaceful and enlightened. They produced art and were well developed scientifically.
The invasion of the Europeans forced them to turn vicious, only because the crusaders were even more barbaric.
Islam may be a younger religion than the other religions out there, but that doesn't mean it's inferior. Anyone who believes that their religion is better than others is only showing their vast ignorance.

Personally, I like athiesm better--fewer religious conflicts.

[hobie]

Originally posted by topicolo


1:
The medieval military expeditions or "crusades" were to destroy the "evil arabs" who had taken the holy land.
What did the Europeans do when the captured Jerusalem? THEY KILL EVERY MAN, WOMAN, AND CHILD. The invading europeans slaughtered an entire city without any regard for human life.
Up until that time, the islamic arabs were peaceful and enlightened. They produced art and were well developed scientifically.

2:
The invasion of the Europeans forced them to turn vicious, only because the crusaders were even more barbaric.
Islam may be a younger religion than the other religions out there, but that doesn't mean it's inferior. Anyone who believes that their religion is better than others is only showing their vast ignorance.

Personally, I like athiesm better--fewer religious conflicts.

OK, here's my explanation:
1: I'm completely with you, that's what I wanted to achieve. That everybody starts thinking for a moment about his own/cultural past! It's totally right that Europeans did do a lot of crap at that time!!! They still do, but on another level now. Less killing people, more betraying people...

2: I never said that the islamic religion is inferior. Ot that a particular religion is better than another. I just said that islamic fundamentalists are at that point of "development", where the Europeans have been more than 500 years ago! Period. Killing people for religious reasons is what they do now, and killing people for the same reasons is what Europeans/Christians did a long time ago.
You get my point now?!?

Yeah, atheism may seem okay from that point of view. But do you really think the world would be a better place without religion... :confused:

[topicolo]

Originally posted by hobie

2: I never said that the islamic religion is inferior. Ot that a particular religion is better than another. I just said that islamic fundamentalists are at that point of "development", where the Europeans have been more than 500 years ago! Period. Killing people for religious reasons is what they do now, and killing people for the same reasons is what Europeans/Christians did a long time ago.
You get my point now?!?

Yeah, atheism may seem okay from that point of view. But do you really think the world would be a better place without religion... :confused:

Oh please! Christians kill based on religion all the time! What happened in Ireland? I think Catholics killing Protestants probably qualifies as Christians killing based on religion.
Being an older religion doesn't necessarily mean that it's more mature. Look at the religious killings happening between Hindus and Muslims in India. Hinduism is much older than Christianity yet people are still acting violently because of it.

I think the world would be a MUCH better place without religion. Religion has killed people more violently than any other source.

[Mr. Anderson]

Originally posted by topicolo

I think the world would be a MUCH better place without religion. Religion has killed people more violently than any other source.

Ah, and what would you provide as a substitute? This statement makes no real sense if you understand human nature and its need to have something 'bigger' than itself. This is an arguement better suited for another thread if you want to go there....

As for the Crusades - 'The Fourth Crusade chose an easier object of conquest and, despite the fact that Constantinople was in the hands of the Official Christians, succeeded where the first two crusades had failed. In 1203, they burst into the ancient capital of the East, pillaging and plundering. The churches were ransacked, and the booty from them not only subsequently popularized the practice of image-worship in the west, but also greatly increased the wealth of the Roman Catholic Church: '

You can find some more on them here (http://cyberistan.org/islamic/crusades1.htm) - Constantinople was the capital of the Byzantine Empire at the time (originally the Eastern Roman Empire) and was Christian.

D

[hobie]

Originally posted by dukestreet


As for the Crusades - 'The Fourth Crusade chose an easier object of conquest and, despite the fact that Constantinople was in the hands of the Official Christians, succeeded where the first two crusades had failed. In 1203, they burst into the ancient capital of the East, pillaging and plundering. The churches were ransacked, and the booty from them not only subsequently popularized the practice of image-worship in the west, but also greatly increased the wealth of the Roman Catholic Church: '

Constantinople was the capital of the Byzantine Empire at the time (originally the Eastern Roman Empire) and was Christian.
D

And that is my point! People are fighting each other under the hood of religion. But in reality it's just about power and leadship!

Yes, christians still do fight each other, but it's in a "closed" circle and not against the whole world (as islamic brothers do).

[solvs]

Originally posted by hobie

And that is my point! People are fighting each other under the hood of religion. But in reality it's just about power and leadship!


Exactly. And to expand on your point, without religion the power struggles would still be there. Whether we like it or not, that's just the way humans are. It sucks, but I do think some people NEED religion just to get by in life.

Personnally, I'm agnostic. I know there's something out there, but I'm not sure what. And I'm certainly not gonna fight somebody over it, or deny someone their belief systems. Unless of course, your belief system is to infringe on others beliefs (or kill innocent people).

If only everyone felt the same way.

Too bad terrorists aren't truly Muslims (or Christians, or whatever), this wouldn't be an issue.

[Mr. Anderson]

Originally posted by solvs

Too bad terrorists aren't truly Muslims (or Christians, or whatever), this wouldn't be an issue.

Yes, and they give a bad name to any religion they use as an excuse for the acts they do. But I think much of it is more a power struggle imposed by our own history and also pressures from population, culture and simple necessities for life. This won't change any time soon and there isn't a single solution. We're sort of like adolescents going through a phase and if we're lucky will grow out of it - its just going to take an aweful long time and lots of suffering on the way.

D

[topicolo]

Originally posted by hobie


And that is my point! People are fighting each other under the hood of religion. But in reality it's just about power and leadship!

Yes, christians still do fight each other, but it's in a "closed" circle and not against the whole world (as islamic brothers do).

You just invalidated your initial statement completely. If all of these terrorists "are fighting each other under the hood of religion," you can't really blame islam for their cowardly acts, can you?

I don't think it is right to start ranking religions in any order. This only leads to prejudices and stereotypes which can eventually lead to violence.

[BenderBot1138]

... we'd be calling it the bugs bunny masacre... freaking out because a couple of prissy women were in the same country as some bad behavior does not justify generalizing to a whole country.

Seems to me that somehow the Government took control of the situation again, and all involved had no trouble calmly boarding planes and jetting off to see the London Bridge.

I don't think violence is ok, or rioting, or anything else outlawed in Criminal Laws for that matter. But I mean really! Can't we all just get along.

Panic if you want, but all that's going to happen is we'll end up in WWIII. Go ahead, panic.

[springscansing]

Originally posted by idkew

anyone brave- jump on in. :confused: :confused: :confused:

That's an interesting point of view... racist.

[Mr. Anderson]

Originally posted by BenderBot1138
Panic if you want, but all that's going to happen is we'll end up in WWIII. Go ahead, panic.

I don't think it will ever get that far. There won't be a conventional war as we have known it in the past - you just can't field a large army any more, too many targets.

As technology changes, things might be different, but for now I think that our biggest threat will be the war on/with terrorism, which is mostly a hidden war. I'm sure the military would just love to have a target to shoot at.....

D