Apple Releases Dual Core PowerMac G5s

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

As has been long rumored (http://www.macrumors.com/site.php?mode=search&term=dual+core&submit=Search+Site), Apple released (http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2005/oct/19pmg5.html) Dual Core PowerMac G5s today at their Media Event (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2005/10/20051019122841.shtml).

The new PowerMac G5s features the following models:

Single Dual-Core G5 2.0GHz $1,999
Single Dual-Core G5 2.3GHz $2,499
Dual Dual-Core G5 2.5GHz $3,299

The high end model features Two Dual Core G5 processors giving it 4 effective processing units. It is called the "Power Mac G5 Quad".

- PCI Express
- up to 16GB of 533MHz DDR2 SDRAM
- Two Gigabit Ethernet ports
- Mighty Mouse
- GeForce 6600 (128MB or 256MB)

The Quad PowerMac will be shipping in November.

[Riot_Mac]

that quad is dope, but expensive. I think I will be purchasing a PowerBook... even though the update was kind of weak.

[nagromme]

PowerPC's final months are looking pretty nice! :)

Don't forget that the OS itself has ways to make use of multiple CPUs even with apps that don't have built-in support. Like devoting one CPU entirely to the app, while the OS and all other processes run on the other cores.

I like that the wireless antenna is now a permanent strip down the back--no more little attachments.


Now, what to do with all your spare cash? Imagine one of THESE Mac setups with 4 cores, 4 graphics cards and 8 Cinema Displays! (Is the second setup possible? 4 of each?)

[Don't panic]

and for US$ 21.999 you can bring home your top of the line, (16G Ram 1TB hard drive) quad!

[dhan]

About time

[ipacmm]

I am about to order a Quad-core G5...I just need to press the "check out" icon...

[ZLurker]

Power to the people!

Finally

[natehan]

Did you see the picture of the processor? It's pretty sick

[wordmunger]

I am about to order a Quad-core G5...I just need to press the "check out" icon...

Really? A quad-core, and not a dual dual? Who's selling that?

[rolandf]

The top-end machines seems nice, although not enough pre-installed memory. But what is not workstation like, are the hard-drives

[turtlebud]

I am about to order a Quad-core G5...I just need to press the "check out" icon...


and don't forget to hit the "place order" button after that... :D

[bbyrdhouse]

Recently, our church was broken into and our brand new Dual 2.7 with 20" Display was stolen. We were covered under our Insurance so when we get the insurance check I will be ordering that new Dual Dual.

[itswoody]

Goddammit I'm so pissed right now...saved up for months to buy a Dual 2.7 Ghz Power Mac back in April (although it took a whole month to arrive but that's another story) thinking it would last...and now this a few months later. Apple have screwed me and many others again....70% performance advantage over yesterdays "top of the line" mac!!! But still we buy their products! If you're listening Jobs, offer to buy mine back and give me a mega discount on a quad, that will make me happy. :mad: :eek: :mad: :eek: :p

[G5Unit]

I want one...now!

[Dont Hurt Me]

The Quad is very interesting and new but the rest are Lame, Apple has removed two chips for one and same goes for the Cooling system so where is the beef? Sure this is cheaper for Apple to make but what did the consumer get that the older models didnt offer. All of these updates really go to show the problems apple is having with the CPU makers IBM/Motoscale.

[Detlev_73]

At least my trusty Dual 2.0 is still in the availability list. I'll start to worry about it when it's no longer even offered. Oh, but wait, I just realized that the first PM available is a dual CORE G5, not a dual processor.

I wonder if anyone will post the benchmarks later on of:

Dual 2.0 gHz G5 -vs- Dual CORE 2.0 gHz

[zoran]

I was xpecting a dual-core iMacG5, why the hell didnt they make that upgrade!
Damn!

[jiv3turkey748]

16gb of ram lol.. thats insane

[andiwm2003]

the main question to me is the dual core 2.3 ghz. is it better than the old dual 2.3 ghz? and does the gpu and the pci-express slots justify the higher price compared to a refurbished old 2.3 ghz. i almost think no. the dual 2.3 ghz is only a sidewards step in performance for the same price.

my 2 cents.

[Neodym]

I'm waiting for the first hack to upgrade the old single-core Powermacs with Dual-Core-CPUs. Either by simple plug-it-in (does someone know about pin compatibility?) or by small adaptor pcb's...

Until then, my trusty 2.5er will do :)

Cheers
Neodym

[Detlev_73]

I was xpecting a dual-core iMacG5, why the hell didnt they make that upgrade!
Damn!

Probably because the iMac is not a pro machine, just a consumer machine. I hear ya and feel ya, but that's probably what others are going to say.

[spencecb]

Goddammit I'm so pissed right now...saved up for months to buy a Dual 2.7 Ghz Power Mac back in April (although it took a whole month to arrive but that's another story) thinking it would last...and now this a few months later. Apple have screwed me and many others again....70% performance advantage over yesterdays "top of the line" mac!!! But still we buy their products! If you're listening Jobs, offer to buy mine back and give me a mega discount on a quad, that will make me happy. :mad: :eek: :mad: :eek: :p

I will never understand the people that complain that Apple doesn't update quickly enough, and then the same people get pissed when they buy something and Apple makes it better. This is how technology works, folks. You will never have the best, because the best is always around the corner. I know this has been posted before, but I just felt the need to throw my two cents out there.
Apple has not SCREWED anyone over....they simply made their products better. I know it sucks to have something come out right after you make a purchase, but such is life.

[wPod]

that is some crazy crazy power, with 8 displays and 16GB of ram!!!! if they werent going to release intel in the next year id buy one right now!!!! (ok actually i have no where close to enough money. . . but it sounds better to say im waiting for the intel!!)

[Dr. Dastardly]

Goddammit I'm so pissed right now...saved up for months to buy a Dual 2.7 Ghz Power Mac back in April (although it took a whole month to arrive but that's another story) thinking it would last...and now this a few months later. Apple have screwed me and many others again....70% performance advantage over yesterdays "top of the line" mac!!! But still we buy their products! If you're listening Jobs, offer to buy mine back and give me a mega discount on a quad, that will make me happy. :mad: :eek: :mad: :eek: :p
BWAHAHAHAHA!

Your funny!

[solvs]

Was kinda hoping for a new low-end PowerMac for around $1500, but the updates are nice enough. I should have just gone with the refurb I was going to buy awhile ago. Or get an iMac, and use external stuff. Meh.

[jnasato]

Finally, an update worth telling the whole fricking world about.

NICE.

I want one... aaas do all of us.

[nagromme]

Recently, our church was broken into and our brand new Dual 2.7 with 20" Display was stolen. We were covered under our Insurance so when we get the insurance check I will be ordering that new Dual Dual.
Congratulations... on your new Dual 2.7 with 20" Display ;)

[portent]

nVidia Quadro graphics available, and ECC RAM? Dual ethernet ports?

What is this, some kind of workstation?

[trose]

It'd be worth owning the Dual Core G5 just to own the fastest ever PPC Mac. Get a little teary eyed thinking about our move away from beloved RISC...

[itswoody]

I will never understand the people that complain that Apple doesn't update quickly enough, and then the same people get pissed when they buy something and Apple makes it better. This is how technology works, folks. You will never have the best, because the best is always around the corner. I know this has been posted before, but I just felt the need to throw my two cents out there.
Apple has not SCREWED anyone over....they simply made their products better. I know it sucks to have something come out right after you make a purchase, but such is life.

I never complained that Apple doesn't update quickly enough, I just stated that this new quad, whilst great for Apple and for the future of the Power Mac comes only after having mine for 4 months which makes me feel sick!!! I mean you could have bought a dual 2.7 ghz yesterday and now this! Then you'd be sick too. Doesn't seem fair really...to reiterate, if Apple, or some other reputable firm offered a part exchange system I'd use it!
;)

[nagromme]

Was kinda hoping for a new low-end PowerMac for around $1500,
There is no mid-range headless from Apple. Let's hope they fill that gap next year with Intel.

(Maybe they've figured out that although demand is high for a mid-range headless, a LOT of those people WILL accept an iMac instead. So Apple gets the sale anyway?)

[bigandy]

*heads off to the apple edu store to calculate the cost of a nice dual dual 2.5*

:D yeah baby!

[greenstork]

I really wish that the nVidia 7800 GT was a BTO option like they claim it is on their website. It's the only thing keeping me from pulling the trigger, I'm not spending $1650 on a 4500 FX that I don't really need, I'm not buying a PM to be used as a workstation.

http://www.apple.com/powermac/graphics.html

[rockthecasbah]

the new PM sounds tasty, even though its been rumored for so long..finally confirmation of my dreams :) .

[nagromme]

EDIT: Question answered below. One FW 800, no internal modem, separate digital and analog audio I/O.

BTW, the specs say ONE Firewire 800 port, but I swear I see two here:

http://images.apple.com/powermac/images/designbkfrt20051019superdri.jpg
(From the Design page)

I see, from top to bottom:

Dual ethernet
Modem
FW 400
Dual FW 800? Am I crazy?
Audio I/O
Three USB

(And on the front: headphones, another USB, and another FW 400. That makes the total 4 USB and 2 FW 400, as the specs state.)

[Object-X]

Can't wait to see the benchmarks on these. I wonder how a singe dual core rates to dual processors?

[ruckus]

I never complained that Apple doesn't update quickly enough, I just stated that this new quad, whilst great for Apple and for the future of the Power Mac comes only after having mine for 4 months which makes me feel sick!!! I mean you could have bought a dual 2.7 ghz yesterday and now this! Then you'd be sick too. Doesn't seem fair really...to reiterate, if Apple, or some other reputable firm offered a part exchange system I'd use it!
;)

I have ordered a computer from apple to receive a call from them a week later stating they would upgrade me for free to the newly released product. I was quite pleased.

[enygma]

Just talked to my reseller and put a Quad 2.5GHz on order. Can't wait... :D:D:D

[Macmaniac]

Apple still is being cheap when it comes to RAM. 512 for the top end machine that is sad. They should be shipping 1gb standard if they are going to charge $3200. Other then that I am glad to see more graphics card options and faster slots.

[immac]

the main question to me is the dual core 2.3 ghz. is it better than the old dual 2.3 ghz? and does the gpu and the pci-express slots justify the higher price compared to a refurbished old 2.3 ghz. i almost think no. the dual 2.3 ghz is only a sidewards step in performance for the same price.

my 2 cents.

depends on how long you plan on using your machine. Having PCIe and ddr2 is gonna make you a happy camper "further on down the road " and with any latest, greatest improvements you might want to add

Even though I have G5's I still use my heavily upgraded Sawtooth because I can....

[devman]

I never complained that Apple doesn't update quickly enough, I just stated that this new quad, whilst great for Apple and for the future of the Power Mac comes only after having mine for 4 months which makes me feel sick!!! I mean you could have bought a dual 2.7 ghz yesterday and now this! Then you'd be sick too. Doesn't seem fair really...to reiterate, if Apple, or some other reputable firm offered a part exchange system I'd use it!
;)

Geez, 4 months is like forever these days. Anyway.... you've had use of that system for 4 months now. What price do you put on that? And your 70% faster comment applies to the quad which costs more than the dual2.7 did.

[Lacero]

The low and mid end G5s remain essentially unchanged. Great support for 16GB of RAM but the most anyone is ever really going to need is 4GB. Only the Quad G5 is worth anything, but it's like $4000 here. Yikes!

[itswoody]

I have ordered a computer from apple to receive a call from them a week later stating they would upgrade me for free to the newly released product. I was quite pleased.

Yeah I that happen with my 3G iPod...got upgraded from 30 to 40 gig for free, kinda rocked! 4 months is a bit late to hope for a free upgrade to quad power now though!!!

[swingerofbirch]

i thought i understood apple moving to intel, but now i'm not sure again..these look powerful...aperture requires dual 2 gigahertz g5..how will an intel chip handle that?

i have an emac that is 1 gigahertz and an emachine that is 2.17 gigahertz..the emachines is 1 year newer than the emac, and the emac is MUCH faster, we still have power mac g3s that run tiger well enough...i cant' say the same for pc's that old trying to run windows period....

why shouldn't i think that the ibm g5s are better chips than the intels?

[w_parietti22]

Probably because the iMac is not a pro machine, just a consumer machine. I hear ya and feel ya, but that's probably what others are going to say.

And probably becuase Apple would get sewed for setting peoples houses on fire. :p

[BruinJohn]

Man, all of these announcements is going to make next year kind of slow. I mean, the only thing to see now is the first Mactel, which I think will be the mini and iBooks. But these dual core's will have to hold over until 2007.

[shawnce]

BTW, the specs say ONE Firewire 800 port, but I swear
I see, from top to bottom:

Dual ethernet
Modem
FW 400
Dual FW 800? Am I crazy?
Audio I/O
Three USB


Nope seeing things wrong...

Dual Ethernet
Firewire 800
Firewire 400
Audio I/O (Optical)
Audio I/O (Electrical)
Three USB 2.0

[jtquick2001]

Recently, our church was broken into and our brand new Dual 2.7 with 20" Display was stolen. We were covered under our Insurance so when we get the insurance check I will be ordering that new Dual Dual.

God is good my friend.

[aafuss1]

No more PCI-X-guess that's a good thing (you don't see that on P4's) and comparing PM's benxhmarks on the PM site.

[w_parietti22]

BTW, the specs say ONE Firewire 800 port, but I swear I see two here:

http://images.apple.com/powermac/images/designbkfrt20051019superdri.jpg
(From the Design page)

I see, from top to bottom:

Dual ethernet
Modem
FW 400
Dual FW 800? Am I crazy?
Audio I/O
Three USB

(And on the front: headphones, another USB, and another FW 400. That makes the total 4 USB and 2 FW 400, as the specs state.)

I believe thats optical audio yout looking at. I think that the FireWire 800 is below the Dual ethernets. Not positive.

oops... already answered.

[caccamolle]

The Quad is very interesting and new but the rest are Lame, Apple has removed two chips for one and same goes for the Cooling system so where is the beef? Sure this is cheaper for Apple to make but what did the consumer get that the older models didnt offer. All of these updates really go to show the problems apple is having with the CPU makers IBM/Motoscale.

you get it. And that's that.

I think that Apple is also to blame though, at least in part, at least for not being more prepared to face a situation that is not entirely unlikely, that is, mainly IBM failure to achieve a timely evolution of its processors.

[JW8725]

Ok how long before this is seconded to the Intel macs? 6 months? I'm temped on the Quad mutha but I'll wait patiently till the switch over. BTW where can one find technical specification on the new powermacs? My apple site wont refresh?? :confused:

[aafuss1]

And the 7800GT-but not GTX, Quadros (finally and with Stero 3D)

[JW Pepper]

EOL products are always the best, just as a car goes out of production the manufacturers load them with extras and the deal looks great. From what I can see these new machines should make anyonme happy who buys them, great processors, PI express and a really good graphics card as standard as well as a decent DVD burner. For once it seems that Apple are not sandbagging to save money, these machiones are loaded. I just hope that this policy will continue, and filter down the product range to some extent.

I would like to see intergrated video cams in the next itteration of books just as we have seen in some Sony's.

[Makosuke]

The Quad is very interesting and new but the rest are Lame, Apple has removed two chips for one and same goes for the Cooling system so where is the beef? Sure this is cheaper for Apple to make but what did the consumer get that the older models didnt offer. All of these updates really go to show the problems apple is having with the CPU makers IBM/Motoscale.Hmm... well, the speed should be identical with (at least in theory) somewhat less cooling and power requirements, but they've added PCI-e slots, EEC RAM (RAWK!), double the RAM capacity (quadruple at the bottom end), FINALLY a workstation-grade graphics card, and a bonus ethernet port that most people will probably never use but'll be great for low-budget servers (really, the G5 tower is now a totally viable server machine).

Speed wise there's no improvement, but the architecture now looks like a real workstation. At the bottom in particular there's no more "iMac in a G5 case"--you get all 8 EEC RAM slots and the full compliment of PCI-e for the same price as before. That's double the RAM slots, better expansion, and a far beefier motherboard for exactly the same price--nice upgrade, making it a totally viable pro machine again.

I really wish that the nVidia 7800 GT was a BTO option like they claim it is on their website. It's the only thing keeping me from pulling the trigger, I'm not spending $1650 on a 4500 FX that I don't really need, I'm not buying a PM to be used as a workstation.If you really want a new computer now, why not just get the 6600 for now and buy an add on 7800GT or ATI Xwhateveristhebest in a bit when Mac-compatible PCI-e versions become available. No doubt it's only a matter of time, and that gets you a nice machine now with a speed boost later.

[Bakerman]

BTW, the specs say ONE Firewire 800 port, but I swear I see two here:

(From the Design page)

I see, from top to bottom:

Dual ethernet
Modem
FW 400
Dual FW 800? Am I crazy?
Audio I/O
Three USB

(And on the front: headphones, another USB, and another FW 400. That makes the total 4 USB and 2 FW 400, as the specs state.)

Those aren't FW800. The FW800 port is where you thought the modem is (there is no built-in modem). From the top, it's:
Dual ethernet
FW 800
FW 400
Digital audio I/O
Audio I/O
Three USB

/Erik

[phd]

Goddammit I'm so pissed right now...saved up for months to buy a Dual 2.7 Ghz Power Mac back in April (although it took a whole month to arrive but that's another story) thinking it would last...and now this a few months later. Apple have screwed me and many others again....70% performance advantage over yesterdays "top of the line" mac!!! But still we buy their products! If you're listening Jobs, offer to buy mine back and give me a mega discount on a quad, that will make me happy. :mad: :eek: :mad: :eek: :p

Bummer... you should have waited like I did. It was painful but well worth the wait :D

Just got my confirmation # WOO HOO Duel Duel 2.5.... Sheesh I have more waiting to do.. 3 to 5 weeks :cool:

[VanMac]

IDoesn't seem fair really...to reiterate, if Apple, or some other reputable firm offered a part exchange system I'd use it!
;)
It's called eBay.

[w_parietti22]

Aaaa... perfect....

PS- and thats w/o a display!!! :eek:

[nagromme]

Man, all of these announcements is going to make next year kind of slow. I mean, the only thing to see now is the first Mactel, which I think will be the mini and iBooks. But these dual core's will have to hold over until 2007.
Don't be so sure. If PowerMacs (and/or iMac) stay PPC through 2007 then there WILL be more updates to them of some kind.

But PowerMacs do not HAVE to wait for 2007. Steve said the transition would be done BY some time in 2007. Doesn't mean they can't make the move sooner. I'm sure many factors will go into that decision, and the schedule is not finalized THAT far in advance.

Besides, I'd expect the XServe might be the last to change--it might wait until 2007 while the PowerMac changes in late 2006.

The end of this year HAS been fun, but I think next year will be the most exciting ever. The Intel transition will be bumpy (no helping that--it's worth it). It will also be exciting, especially on the laptop front. And we'll start to get tidbits about OS X 10.5 Leopard too. And then there's the "digital lifestyle" side. The folks that brought us iPod, iTMS, AirTunes, iSight, etc. may have more non-Mac surprises in store for 2007. Lastly, there's software. Aperture isn't the last big app from Apple, and iLife is likely to get some fun additions too.

[Hyde]

OMG :eek:

FINALLY - I have been holding out on upgrading for the Dual 3.0's FOREVER. The Quad isn't much of a compromise. I will buy one today - and be BLOWN AWAY by its performance... because I am still on my trusty Dual 500Mhz w/ 1.5GB of RAM from back in the day :o

Since they are using the Dual 2.7Ghz as a BASELINE - imagine the difference a guy like me is going to notice lol. I can't freakin' wait!

[Kid Red]

Well, I just order the dual core 2.3 and 23" LCD. I hope this thing is fast and that it doesn't have any of the bugs (chirping) the previous models had.

I assume it will be faster then my dual gig, but will it be quieter?

[Mr Maui]

and for US$ 21.999 you can bring home your top of the line, (16G Ram 1TB hard drive) quad!
Funny ... but I tried the same thing. Just had to know what it would cost. :eek:

[shawnce]

The low and mid end G5s remain essentially unchanged. Great support for 16GB of RAM but the most anyone is ever really going to need is 4GB.
Basically unchanged?

1MB L2 cache per core
...compared to old...
512KB L2 cache per core

PCI Express (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express) (1x 16 lane - basically for video, 1x 8 lane, 2x 4 lane... all full length slots)
...compared to old...
PCI-X (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI-X) / AGP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerated_Graphics_Port) (1x 133MHz, 2x 100 MHz, and 8x AGP)

533MHz DDR2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DDR2) SDRAM (PC2-4200)
...compared to old...
400MHz DDR (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DDR_SDRAM) SDRAM (PC-3200)

Option for ECC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_access_memory#Buffering.2C_Registered_and_ECC.2FParity) memory
...compared to old...
No such option

2x gig ethernet
...compared to old...
1x gig ethernet (without taking up PCI slot)


etc...

[harveypooka]

Oorrggggghhh. Lovely. Powerbooks are a bit of a no go though...suppose a nicer screen and better HD and graphics...shame no 2ghz G4.

[slu]

Can someone help me understand the need for two ethernet ports on a server? I have been racking my brain trying to figure out what the use would be. And I know that all (most) server class machines have them.

[Mr Maui]

Oorrggggghhh. Lovely. Powerbooks are a bit of a no go though...suppose a nicer screen and better HD and graphics...shame no 2ghz G4.
Got my new 15" PB anyway ... cheaper and better than the ones from yesterday's Apple Store.

[nagromme]

Those aren't FW800. The FW800 port is where you thought the modem is (there is no built-in modem). From the top, it's:
Dual ethernet
FW 800
FW 400
Digital audio I/O
Audio I/O
Three USB
Thanks--and to the others who answered too. (The dangers of asking a Q in a popular thread :p ) I thought optical audio was handled like on the iMac. Now I know :)


I think that Apple is also to blame though, at least in part, at least for not being more prepared to face a situation that is not entirely unlikely, that is, mainly IBM failure to achieve a timely evolution of its processors.
Apple has put massive research, time, and dollars into preparing for exactly that event--which has been coming true. They've been programming OS X on Intel for five years! Long before it was needed. All that work "just in case." And good thing, too--now we need it! Apple IS prepared. Nothing Apple could do would make the transition simple, but with Rosetta and a gradual transition, the impact on users is lessened. I'd say they are VERY prepared.

[devman]

you get it. And that's that.

I think that Apple is also to blame though, at least in part, at least for not being more prepared to face a situation that is not entirely unlikely, that is, mainly IBM failure to achieve a timely evolution of its processors.

You mean like more prepared than secretly having a separate team maintain the OS in parallel for Intel - for at least 4 years! And then also have that team raise defects at other components that would affect cross-platform (but without giving the game away).

:rolleyes:

[joecool85]

Goddammit I'm so pissed right now...saved up for months to buy a Dual 2.7 Ghz Power Mac back in April (although it took a whole month to arrive but that's another story) thinking it would last...and now this a few months later. Apple have screwed me and many others again....70% performance advantage over yesterdays "top of the line" mac!!! But still we buy their products! If you're listening Jobs, offer to buy mine back and give me a mega discount on a quad, that will make me happy. :mad: :eek: :mad: :eek: :p

How can you be angry that they updated their products. Especially 6 MONTHS after you bought it? What did you expect, Apple never update the PM? Come on now. Grow up. Your machine is still great.

[shawnce]

How can you be angry that they updated their products. Especially 6 MONTHS after you bought it? What did you expect, Apple never update the PM? Come on now. Grow up. Your machine is still great.
I think he is joking... note the last smily, the one with the tongue.

[SiliconAddict]

VERY nice updates but why no 6800 GPU's?!?!

[plinden]

Aaaa... perfect....
{$17,724}
PS- and thats w/o a display!!! :eek:
You may as well just add everything else in. Two 30" displays, FC Express + Motion 2, Fibre Channel card, wireless mouse/keyboard and Applecare brings it to $25,375 or $21,602 education.

[andiwm2003]

Originally Posted by Dont Hurt Me
The Quad is very interesting and new but the rest are Lame, Apple has removed two chips for one and same goes for the Cooling system so where is the beef? Sure this is cheaper for Apple to make but what did the consumer get that the older models didnt offer. All of these updates really go to show the problems apple is having with the CPU makers IBM/Motoscale.

you get it. And that's that.

I think that Apple is also to blame though, at least in part, at least for not being more prepared to face a situation that is not entirely unlikely, that is, mainly IBM failure to achieve a timely evolution of its processors.

I think that Apple is also to blame though, at least in part, at least for not being more realistic and reduce the price for the single dual cores. they seemed to be overpriced before and they are overpriced for the speed they offer now.

[QCassidy352]

can i just ask the guy whose church had a dual 2.7 stolen... what does a church do with a top of the line dual G5?? :eek: ;)

[shawnce]

VERY nice updates but why no 6800 GPU's?!?!
Because the 7800 GT is better? :)

Graphics Options (http://www.apple.com/powermac/graphics.html)

From the tech spec page (store doesn't list all options yet)...

Graphics and displays
16-lane PCI Express graphics slot with one of the following graphics cards installed:
NVIDIA GeForce 6600 LE with 128MB of GDDR SDRAM, one single-link DVI port, and one dual-link DVI port
NVIDIA GeForce 6600 with 256MB of GDDR SDRAM, one single-link DVI port, and one dual-link DVI port
NVIDIA GeForce 7800 GT with 256MB of GDDR3 SDRAM, one single-link DVI port, and one dual-link DVI port (build-to-order option)
NVIDIA Quadro FX 4500 with 512MB of GDDR3 SDRAM, two dual-link DVI ports, and one stereo 3D port (build-to-order option; occupies 16-lane PCI Express slot and adjacent PCI Express slot)

[MikeAtari]

No 2ghz Powerbook?
No 1.9ghz Powerbook?
No 1.8ghz Powerbook?
No 1.7ghz Powerbook?
No G5 Powerbook?
No Freescale Dual-Core Powerbook?

Barnacles! :(

[sehix]

Really? A quad-core, and not a dual dual? Who's selling that?

Sun Microsystems.

[alexf]

Goddammit I'm so pissed right now...saved up for months to buy a Dual 2.7 Ghz Power Mac back in April (although it took a whole month to arrive but that's another story) thinking it would last...and now this a few months later. Apple have screwed me and many others again....70% performance advantage over yesterdays "top of the line" mac!!! But still we buy their products! If you're listening Jobs, offer to buy mine back and give me a mega discount on a quad, that will make me happy. :mad: :eek: :mad: :eek: :p

This is the story of buying computers, my friend. There will always be something better for less money in the future; it's really only a matter of degree.

Just don't think about it and thoroughly enjoy your dual 2.7 G5, a great machine many people would envy being able to have.

[cr2sh]

So is the quad mac liquid cooled? Is any new powermac liquid cooled? Has Apple officially nixed that idea?

Sorry.. my employer blocks the IP to Apple... I can't get access to these answers.

:)

[sehix]

The top-end machines seems nice, although not enough pre-installed memory. But what is not workstation like, are the hard-drives

Not these days. Sun, and other workstation vendors, are shipping workstations with SATA drives standard, and have been shipping ATA drives in workstations for several years at their low end.

[minimax]

The Quad 2.5 sounds AMAZING :eek:
4MB L2 cache compared to the 1MB L2 cache from the dual 2.7 OMFG!!!!!!11 :p
But I'd wonder who buys the dualcore 2.3? If you're strapped on your money you'd buy the entry dual 2.0. But If you have a little more to spend, why not save a little more and go for the Quad?

[Stella]

If you really expected to see a G5 powerBook, I suggest you come back down from Lala land, into the real world.

Freescale dual core G4 processors aren't ready yet...

No 2ghz Powerbook?
No 1.9ghz Powerbook?
No 1.8ghz Powerbook?
No 1.7ghz Powerbook?
No G5 Powerbook?
No Freescale Dual-Core Powerbook?

Barnacles! :(

[nimbus]

Sorry, what does DUAL CORE mean? Dual processor? I don't know, enlighten me.

[plinden]

You know, $25,000 for a fully specced PM with dual 30" monitors is ridiculous, but I just did the same for a dual dual-core Xeon Dell Precision workstation with two 24" monitors, and it comes to $33,000.

[kalisphoenix]

My birthday is tomorrow and my wedding is in about 3.5 weeks. Any takers?

[shawnce]

Ok how long before this is seconded to the Intel macs? 6 months? I'm temped on the Quad mutha but I'll wait patiently till the switch over. BTW where can one find technical specification on the new powermacs? My apple site wont refresh?? :confused:

Power Mac using Intel processors are at LEAST one year away more likely 1.5 years given Intel's processor road map.

[enygma]

can i just ask the guy whose church had a dual 2.7 stolen... what does a church do with a top of the line dual G5?? :eek: ;)
A number of churches these days record their services and edit/author them. As well, sometimes, at the church I volunteered at, they used their PowerMac for editing video together for presentation during services sometimes.

[shawnce]

Sorry, what does DUAL CORE mean? Dual processor? I don't know, enlighten me.

Dual-core (http://www.apple.com/powermac/dualcore.html)

[MacTruck]

So let me get this straight. My $500 Radeon XT 800 video card won't work in this new quad powermac?

[sehix]

The Quad is very interesting and new but the rest are Lame, Apple has removed two chips for one and same goes for the Cooling system so where is the beef? Sure this is cheaper for Apple to make but what did the consumer get that the older models didnt offer. All of these updates really go to show the problems apple is having with the CPU makers IBM/Motoscale.

Other than PCI-Express, better graphics, support for more (and ECC) memory, more optional mass storage, ...?

[shawnce]

So is the quad mac liquid cooled? Is any new powermac liquid cooled? Has Apple officially nixed that idea?

I think they all are liquid cooled. It sure looks like the radiator grill in the images of the system.

So let me get this straight. My $500 Radeon XT 800 video card won't work in this new quad powermac?

If it is AGP based then nope, no way. The new systems are PCIe based.

[spencecb]

I never complained that Apple doesn't update quickly enough, I just stated that this new quad, whilst great for Apple and for the future of the Power Mac comes only after having mine for 4 months which makes me feel sick!!! I mean you could have bought a dual 2.7 ghz yesterday and now this! Then you'd be sick too. Doesn't seem fair really...to reiterate, if Apple, or some other reputable firm offered a part exchange system I'd use it!
;)

And upon carefully reading my original posting, you would conclude that I never said that you were the one complaining about Apple not updating their products quickly enough...that was a general statement to all those people out there that say this. You are just the one that complains when they update something.

[alexf]

Geez, 4 months is like forever these days. Anyway.... you've had use of that system for 4 months now. What price do you put on that? And your 70% faster comment applies to the quad which costs more than the dual2.7 did.

Yes, and on top of that, it will only be faster for some things (such as rendering).

I would suspect that someone who does not work at all with video editing, animation, or very large graphics files would notice no difference between a dual 2.7 and a quad 2.5.

[SpamJunkie]

My birthday is tomorrow and my wedding is in about 3.5 weeks. Any takers?

I can probably take your fiance off your hands, anyway. Dunno about the birthday, I already have enough of those.

[ijimk]

nice upgrae but i want my next cputo be a power book :)

[GUSTO]

Great updates, but think I will keep my Rev A Dual 2Ghz until the Mactels hit, just hope they keep most of these cool updates eg: 16Gb DDR Ram/PCIe ect...)

Still would like to see a 2nd optical drive at some point and even frontrow incorporated in to the deal :)

[nagromme]

I think they all are liquid cooled. It sure looks like the radiator grill in the images of the system.
Someone else said NONE are liquid-cooled anymore. What's the truth?

I see no cooling info on the official pages anymore.

[aswitcher]

So, last update before intel? Or one more next year where the whole line goes dual dual?

[greenstork]

So let me get this straight. My $500 Radeon XT 800 video card won't work in this new quad powermac?

No AGP on new macs, so no.

[mpstrex]

Goddammit I'm so pissed right now...saved up for months to buy a Dual 2.7 Ghz Power Mac back in April (although it took a whole month to arrive but that's another story) thinking it would last...and now this a few months later. Apple have screwed me and many others again....70% performance advantage over yesterdays "top of the line" mac!!! But still we buy their products! If you're listening Jobs, offer to buy mine back and give me a mega discount on a quad, that will make me happy. :mad: :eek: :mad: :eek: :p

It's not worth getting mad at, dude. I bought a brand new G3 400 mhz Power Mac in 1999 (March) and the 450 came out in May and the G4s came out in November 1999.

You can't keep up with technology, and a faster system won't make you a better computer person.

I am buying a Quad because my G5 1.6 ghz single processor is too SLOW for me (I do a lot of HDV editing and am going to be cutting one-two feature films soon), and I want to have a G5 for 3-4 years before they go Intel.

It feels a little anti-climatic, though, because we've been waiting so long. And I notice they can't get rid of 2.0 ghz G5s, no matter what. ;-)

heath

[nagromme]

Dual cored and the new RAM are good things:

http://media.99mac.se/g5_dualcore/

Their tests seem to show that the 2.3 is actually faster (slightly) than the old 2.5. This bodes well.

Depends on your task, of course.

[MikeAtari]

If you really expected to see a G5 powerBook, I suggest you come back down from Lala land, into the real world.

Freescale dual core G4 processors aren't ready yet...


In other words, I'd take ANY processor upgrade.
I'd even take a G5 at this point.

What happened? Did Apple give any indication why we are stuck at 1.67?

[kbonnel]

question, can we use any 3rd party pci express card? any ideas if apple has special video cards for these? (I am sure they do, but wondering)

Kimo

[shawnce]

So, last update before intel? Or one more next year where the whole line goes dual dual?

I personally expect a speed bump to this Power Mac revision in about 6 - 9 months.

[Mr Maui]

My birthday is tomorrow and my wedding is in about 3.5 weeks. Any takers?
Your fiance wouldn't appreciate it if there were. :eek:

[itswoody]

And upon carefully reading my original posting, you would conclude that I never said that you were the one complaining about Apple not updating their products quickly enough...that was a general statement to all those people out there that say this. You are just the one that complains when they update something.

"I will never understand the people that complain that Apple doesn't update quickly enough, and then the same people get pissed when they buy something and Apple makes it better."

Umm durrrrrrr, you were quite clearly refering to my post and me. ;) Still no biggee...it was a joke anyway! :p

[ohcrap]

Anyone want to buy my 4 month old PB G4 15" so I can get one of the new ones? :D

[Fiveos22]

can i just ask the guy whose church had a dual 2.7 stolen... what does a church do with a top of the line dual G5?? :eek: ;)


It requires a lot of horsepower to IM with God. A lot.

[Mr Maui]

So, last update before intel? Or one more next year where the whole line goes dual dual?
Whole line goes dual dual at or before MWSF ... especially after they see the mid-range sigle duals don't sell. JMO

[nagromme]

Basic question: I know dual cores is supposed to be better, in theory, than separate chips, because the chips can share data faster.

Are there any DOWNSIDES to having both G5 cores on one chip, vs. the same GHz on two separate chips?

I'm curious about just the processor advantages--not the other specs of old vs. new Macs.

[Nermal]

Really? A quad-core, and not a dual dual? Who's selling that?

Um, Apple :confused:

[VanMac]

Aaaa... perfect....

PS- and thats w/o a display!!! :eek:
Ya, but hey....free shipping!

[minimax]

Someone else said NONE are liquid-cooled anymore. What's the truth?

I see no cooling info on the official pages anymore.
It looks like the're all aircooled. The previous 2.5 and 2.7 were overclocked, the dualcore 2.5 is not.

[Macademia]

All exciting stuff, but just one thing... I'm not sure about the name of the photo app... I mean... aperture? Seriously? I know it's a little adolescent, but couldn't they have thought of a less giggle-worthy name? I can see the joke posts and headlines now.. "I have a big problem with my aperture", "please help me instal plugin in my aperture" , "Steve Job's aperture feels good to computer geeks" etc etc.

[Kid Red]

Damn, I already placed my order and they didn't have the 7800 as an option so I didn't know about it. But damn it's much faster then the 6600. Anyone know when it will be back and and what price? I might have to call Apple and find out if it's worth me chaining my order.

[greenstork]

question, can we use any 3rd party pci express card? any ideas if apple has special video cards for these? (I am sure they do, but wondering)

Kimo

I was trying to figure that out myself. Any card would, of course, have to have drivers developed by ATI and nVidia for the Mac. It would also have to support Open GL.

[shawnce]

Basic question: I know dual cores is supposed to be better, in theory, than separate chips, because the chips can share data faster.

Are there any DOWNSIDES to having both G5 cores on one chip, vs. the same GHz on two separate chips?

I'm curious about just the processor advantages--not the other specs of old vs. new Macs.

The main issue are thermal and FSB.

- You have more gates on the die so more heat generation however the die is likely larger and hence easier to interface to a cooling system (and yeah it looks like they are using heat-pipes and huge air cooled heat sink not liquid cooling).

- You have two cores sharing a single FSB now but the extra L2 cache size and on die sharing between cores can make up for that.

...that is about all I can think of.

[MacTruck]

Do apps need to be compiled for quad cpus or will apps use them if they are dual cpu capable? For instance will my encoding in EyeTV be 70% faster or will it just not see the other 2 cpus?

[zap2]

man teh most $$$ you can spend on a quad PM is 24,078.00!!

Mac it 11,900 for 16gb of Apple RAM!!

You can get 1TB in your PM Harddrive


I WANT IT

[VanMac]

can i just ask the guy whose church had a dual 2.7 stolen... what does a church do with a top of the line dual G5?? :eek: ;)
Many churches now adays are big into multimedia. We have two large screens with projectors on each side of the stage for worship song lyrics, ppt slide for sermon, video, etc, etc.

[FF_productions]

i skim through the powermac upgrades and I can say im not that happy. The apple upgrades as of late have cut down on the variety of machines u can purchase. (3 imacs->2 iMacs, Powerbooks have been cut down, eMacs have been completely cut out)

I thought for a machine that is now 3300 dollars, 1 gig of ram would come standard for such a price. Why so much???

Powerbooks....Not even a speed bump....

I'm not too excited for now...Though the powermacs do seem pretty fast..I'll have to wait for barefeats to get some benchmarks up before I get impressed.

Now I start to believe Apple is going to come out with another new machine, sooner or later. Removing the eMacs was plain stupid on Apple's part, it was the perfect family computer without going over a 1000 dollars. :mad:

[shawnce]

Do apps need to be compiled for quad cpus or will apps use them if they are dual cpu capable? For instance will my encoding in EyeTV be 70% faster or will it just not see the other 2 cpus?

It depends (regardless not really a recompile). If he software is locked to only utilizing two threads for its processing then it wont, itself, be able to fully utilize 4 core system without modification. If the software was written to query the number of CPUs then fire up a matching number of threads then it will better utilize such a system.

[VanMac]

My birthday is tomorrow and my wedding is in about 3.5 weeks. Any takers?
I dont need another birthday........but.....what does your wife look like?

[mashinhead]

I placed an order for a dual 2.0, didn't think the speed increment was worth the 2.3 price. I so wanted the quad. Kind which they had just offered two quad configs. 2.0 and 2.5 but anyway...we'll see when it gets here.

[Bonte]

I will never understand the people that complain that Apple doesn't update quickly enough, and then the same people get pissed when they buy something and Apple makes it better. This is how technology works, folks.

Technology would normally not allow a 1 year old dual 2gz to be in the pro offerings :rolleyes: imho a 2 monthly spec improvement would be better to not upset the consumers and i think thats there intension for the future mini's.

[FF_productions]

"With 42 bits of physical address space, the PowerPC G5 supports a colossal 4 terabytes (4TB) of system memory. Although it’s not currently feasible to purchase 4TB of RAM, the advanced architecture of the PowerPC G5 allows for plenty of growth in the future." -Apple


Sorry boys, the powerpc g5 doesn't have much a future....we are kinda switching to intel soon...it will be supported for a little bit longer, but sooner or later we'll dump it. And by then, nobody is going to have 4 tb's of ram in their computers....

[Stella]

People aren't going to junk their PPC based apple after the hardware transition has completed. There will still be way too many PPC based Apples around for Apple and others to ignore.

This machine will be quite happy for at least, if not more 5 years.

"With 42 bits of physical address space, the PowerPC G5 supports a colossal 4 terabytes (4TB) of system memory. Although it’s not currently feasible to purchase 4TB of RAM, the advanced architecture of the PowerPC G5 allows for plenty of growth in the future." -Apple


Sorry boys, the powerpc g5 doesn't have much a future....we are kinda switching to intel soon...it will be supported for a little bit longer, but sooner or later we'll dump it. And by then, nobody is going to have 4 tb's of ram in their computers....

[dberg]

i just configured a dual dual core Intel machine over at DELL. Almost identical specs as the quad G5 (coudlnt get a dual layer burner though) and it came to about $4741. So i think $3300 is a fair price in relation to the computing world.

[shawnce]

"With 42 bits of physical address space, the PowerPC G5 supports a colossal 4 terabytes (4TB) of system memory. Although it’s not currently feasible to purchase 4TB of RAM, the advanced architecture of the PowerPC G5 allows for plenty of growth in the future." -Apple


Sorry boys, the powerpc g5 doesn't have much a future....we are kinda switching to intel soon...it will be supported for a little bit longer, but sooner or later we'll dump it. And by then, nobody is going to have 4 tb's of ram in their computers....

Umm... many Intel based mother boards support 40+ bit physical address space and of course 64 bit virtual address spaces. Also many of those boards support memory capacities much larger then 16 GB.

It is likely that by the time Power Macs get to Intel, Apple will have nailed down its 64 bit Intel ABI (they have the 32 bit ABI worked out now), in other words their Power Mac line will continue to be 64 bit based.

(ah reread what you wrote... guess you are not questioning Intel based system capabilities just they wording since Intel is the future)

[voyagerd]

Aww... My single 1.8GHz G5 is getting old.. And what happened to ATI graphics cards? I need ATI.

[shawnce]

Aww... My single 1.8GHz G5 is getting old.. And what happened to ATI graphics cards? I need ATI.

Expect ATI to release a retail PCIe based card for these systems in the near future, no reason that they can't.

[FF_productions]

Ok, It just seems a little crazy that it can have that much ram in it...

And I know Apple won't dump 99 percent of their customers using PPC when intel comes around. I've known it since Steve Jobs said apple was switching to intel, and that was months ago.

It's just that quote stuck out so much...4 terabytes!!!! 4000 gigs of ram??

[gugy]

wow finally, alleluia!
Just placed an order for the quad 2.5 plus 30" and 23" monitors. I think the wait was worth it. Lower prices on the displays plus educational discount.
I am glad i waited. Now wait for rev.b Intel to upgrade again. probably 2 years away.
Apperture, by the way great software. Way to go Apple.
Powerbooks, no big deal IMHO. I would wait for Intel. I think we'll see it at WWDC 06.

[ccrandall77]

Ya, the PowerMac update is pretty cool, but no way can I drop $3300 on a new computer. So, as nice as the machine is, it does me no good.

The PB update was pretty weak, IMO. Esp w/o an update to the 12". They could've at least updated the screens and made dual-layer burners an option. If I wasn't so optimistic as to believe we'll see Mactel laptops at MWSF, I'd probably give my fiancee my PB and just go and get a Vaio and hope that OS X x86 hacked version would work on it.

In fact, did anyone see the new Vaios made of carbon fiber (Vaio TX series)? Smaller, lighter than previous models (2.7lbs for 16" and 17" widescreens), much better batteries (up to 9hrs -- 14-15hrs with extended battery), much much better screens, etc. In the meantime, the PB stays pretty much stagnant. I understand why they may wait until the Mactel switch to come out with a radically new design, but who knows when that's going to happen. In the meantime, the competition is just passing them by.

Honestly, if it wasn't for OS X, would you buy a Powerbook? I'm seriously curious.

[FF_productions]

Honestly, if it wasn't for OS X, would you buy a Powerbook? I'm seriously curious.


Great point...It's the only reason I have a mac. OSX is just that good. (FCP especially)

[stealthboy]

i just configured a dual dual core Intel machine over at DELL. Almost identical specs as the quad G5 (coudlnt get a dual layer burner though) and it came to about $4741. So i think $3300 is a fair price in relation to the computing world.

Whoa there! Stop trying to confuse everyone with facts. Let them all rant about how expensive Macs are and the lack of features... it's so much more fun. :rolleyes:

[risc]

Apple finally did it the cemented the Power Mac as one of the worlds high end UNIX workstations. Now where are the high end UNIX workstation apps that require a Quadro FX?

It's nice to see the PPC go out with one hell of a BANG!

[electronbee]

To uppgrade to a dual-core would at least require a BIOS update. Maybe an adapter would work to adapt the dual-core chip to a single core mobo. Even if it has the same amount of pins, etc. it will not simply drop in there and work. Could be voltage or current issues. Pins that were reserved for future use ar enow IN USE. Etc. Possible and very likely if there were to be an interest in it. But, the PPC architecture is not as well documented (yes, I know of existing documentation) but NO WHERE near that of x86 documentation. Which is why you see people keeping older systems and buying an adapter to use a prc of 2001 on a mobo from 1994. (don't ask me why, I don't do that)

But, some people has aksed if a dual-core is the same as a dual proc. Mostly. There are plenty of dual-core versus dual-proc tests out there for intel and AMD chips. Benchmarks indicate very little difference. However, this is also dependant upon the chipset as well. Not just the proc's.

Also, I am sure Intel proc's will be able to handle Aperature. They certainly can handle Photoshop CS2 and numerous other app's. And, I am sure Apple will basically copy the current line up with "equiv" processors but a lot more RAM and better video cards for the money. It would be pointless to go from dual-core processors to single core variants. I imagine everything will look and feel the same to anyone out there. I'm pretty sure if you were to have a PowerPC G5 right next to a Intel based one. And they had the exact same hardware config you'd be hard pressed to tell. Except, the Intel based one might be a bit less $$$.

eb

[Passante]

Does anyone know if RAW from a Fuji S2 is supported. I can't tell

[risc]

Honestly, if it wasn't for OS X, would you buy a Powerbook? I'm seriously curious.

No, is there really any other reason to buy a Mac? Well maybe if it had 100% hardware support for Linux I'd consider it, because if there wasn't an OS X I'd still be using Linux as my primary OS.

[shawnce]

Does anyone know if RAW from a Fuji S2 is supported. I can't tell
Aperture Raw Information (http://www.apple.com/aperture/raw/)

It isn't listed... so likely not yet supported.

[whitetrashanth]

Hi can somone link me a page on crucial to the RAM i want please,.. iv never bought ram separatly this would help immensly thanks!

http://www.crucial.com/uk/

cheers

if i can get the ram at a reasonable price on here,.. il go for the 2.5 quad power mac....

[risc]

Hi can somone link me a page on crucial to the RAM i want please,.. iv never bought ram separatly this would help immensly thanks!

http://www.crucial.com/uk/

cheers

if i can get the ram at a reasonable price on here,.. il go for the 2.5 quad power mac....

The machine was only released a few hours ago I don't think anyone will have any Apple Certified RAM for it yet.

[kenaustus]

I think the new PMs are interesting, but it sure looks like IBM is shafting them on dual core costs at the upper end - a $300 bump from the previous dual 2.7 G5.

That brings up the BTO upgrade that will NEVER happen: ship all PMs dual processor ready in terms of internal design and allow buyers of the 2 lower models to add a second processor for $300. Want a 2.0 quad - add $300. That would be tempting especially if you can get an edu discount.

[risc]

I think the new PMs are interesting, but it sure looks like IBM is shafting them on dual core costs at the upper end - a $300 bump from the previous dual 2.7 G5.

That made me laugh! $300 extra for a machine that is possibly twice as fast when used properly?

[shawnce]

Hi can somone link me a page on crucial to the RAM i want please,.. iv never bought ram separatly this would help immensly thanks!

Stuff on this page likely (240-pin DIMMs I believe)...

http://www.crucial.com/uk/store/listmodule.asp?family=DDRII&tabid=DDR2+PC2%2D4200

...but you should wait until they list support for the new systems.

This is what Apple lists for RAM...

Memory
128-bit memory controller and data paths
512MB of 533MHz DDR2 SDRAM (PC2-4200)
Eight DIMM slots supporting up to 16GB of main memory
Support for the following DIMMs (in pairs):
256MB DIMMs (64-bit-wide, 512-Mbit)
512MB DIMMs (64-bit-wide, 512-Mbit)
1GB DIMMs (64-bit-wide, 512-Mbit or 1-Gbit)
2GB DIMMs (64-bit-wide, 1-Gbit)
ECC memory available in configurations with 1GB or more (build-to-order option)

[MacMan22]

If you were to buy a PM now and a Mactel PB next year, would they be able to work together ok?

[progx]

wow! quad G5s! i mean, we all knew the dual core G5s were coming, but wow! there's some power under the aluminum casing.

I WANT ONE!!! :D

[shawnce]

If you were to buy a PM now and a Mactel PB next year, would they be able to work together ok?

Yes.

[caccamolle]

what is the performance difference between a dual 2ghz and a dual core single 2ghz ?

Anybody knows, guess ?
I already read somewhere someone saying performance is superior with a dula processor vs a single dual core, but that the overall performance on the machine may be similar or better as a result of other improvement (mainly RAm speed).

[loebjack]

This morning we received our shipment of New PowerMac G5s. I took some pictures of the interesting changes I had noticed right away. Look at the power plug change. The antenna is now a bar on the back instead of removable pegs. The PCI-e is 4x and 8x slots, labeled on the motherboard. The new tower also has a slot for a combo Airport Extreme card with Bluetooth and not the standard APX slot.

http://www.powermax.com/articles_reviews/power_mac_g5.html

[risc]

This morning we received our shipment of New PowerMac G5s. I took some pictures of the interesting changes I had noticed right away...
http://www.powermax.com/articles_reviews/power_mac_g5.html

Nice, and thanks! :)

[TexMex]

my question is: why does MS get 3-core 3.2Ghz from IBM now, and Apple only 2-core 2.5Ghz?

Or are we talking about different processors?

[shawnce]

my question is: why does MS get 3-core 3.2Ghz from IBM now, and Apple only 2-core 2.5Ghz?

Or are we talking about different processors?
Yes you are talking about decently different processors.

The PPC 970 (/FX, /MP) in the Power Macs are a general purpose CPUs with the ability to have a large number of instructions in flight and executed out of order.

The PPC cores used by Xbox are simpler cores with minimal in flight instructions and in order execution.

[gugy]

I am puzzled.
Apple mentioned that you can buy 4 graphics cards for the current PM g5.
But when your order any of the new PM machines it just give option for 2 graphic cards
NVIDIA GeForce 6600 256MB SDRAM.
QUADRO FX 4500 512MB SDRAM

Why is that?

[MikeAtari]

This morning we received our shipment of New PowerMac G5s. I took some pictures of the interesting changes I had noticed right away. Look at the power plug change. The antenna is now a bar on the back instead of removable pegs. The PCI-e is 4x and 8x slots, labeled on the motherboard. The new tower also has a slot for a combo Airport Extreme card with Bluetooth and not the standard APX slot.

http://www.powermax.com/articles_reviews/power_mac_g5.html

I think the real secret to Apple's success are ;) the BLUE motherboards. ;)

Anyway, does the Powerbook memory spec of PC2-4200 DDR help any, performance wise?

[shawnce]

I am puzzled.
Apple mentioned that you can buy 4 graphics cards for the current PM g5.
But when your order any of the new PM machines it just give option for 2 graphic cards
NVIDIA GeForce 6600 256MB SDRAM.
QUADRO FX 4500 512MB SDRAM

Why is that?
For some reason the Apple store isn't listing all of the options at this time. The tech spec page for the PowerMac lists the following options.

NVIDIA GeForce 6600 LE with 128MB of GDDR SDRAM
NVIDIA GeForce 6600 with 256MB of GDDR SDRAM
NVIDIA GeForce 7800 GT with 256MB of GDDR3 SDRAM
NVIDIA Quadro FX 4500 with 512MB of GDDR3 SDRAM (occupies 16-lane PCI Express slot and adjacent four-lane PCI Express slot)

[Lacero]

The PPC 970 (/FX/MP) in the Power Macs are a general purpose CPUs with the ability to have a large number of instructions in flight and executed out of order.

The PPC cores used by Xbox are simpler cores with minimal in flight instructions and in order execution.
AidenShaw will probably chime in on this subject. The moment he does, I'm outta here. :p

[johannes]

Is PCIe backward compatible with PCI/PCI-X? All of the existing pro audio cards are PCI! :confused:

[Lebowski]

I never complained that Apple doesn't update quickly enough, I just stated that this new quad, whilst great for Apple and for the future of the Power Mac comes only after having mine for 4 months which makes me feel sick!!! I mean you could have bought a dual 2.7 ghz yesterday and now this! Then you'd be sick too. Doesn't seem fair really...to reiterate, if Apple, or some other reputable firm offered a part exchange system I'd use it!
;)

well, what do you expect when you buy a machine that has not been updated for a LONG time. If you ordered a top of the line G5 when it was introduced, then a week later they dropped a better one, ok. But your argument is like buying a 2005 model car at the end of the year when the 06 models are comming in, then bitching that you got an old car. You waited to pull the trigger and get your G5... and in doing so, made the window from your purchase to the new updates a short one, and now you are butthurt. Buy this new G5, and you wont get outdated for a long time.

and it kills me how all these people are ready to throw their machines away because a new one is out. Must be nice. I am one of the few users that actually utilizes mass computing power, and yet my old G5 tower still gets the job done. I do LOTS of HD video work, pro photowork, animations etc.... and my old machine still gets the job done. When i get 20g's to drop on a new machine, i will configure a max'd out G5, but till then I feel ok with what i have.

It cracks me up when people constanly upgrade to crazy fast machines, so they can surf the web, chat, email and burn CD's with..... There is a VERY small market for such a powerful machine. Im willing to bet that maybe 5% of mac users would benefit. Otherwise, you are all just throwing away your money.

[shawnce]

Is PCIe backward compatible with PCI/PCI-X? All of the existing pro audio cards are PCI! :confused:

Nope. They have different signaling and connector types. Of course you likely will be able to find PCIe to PCI/PCI-X breakout chassis in the not so distant future.

Oh also note Apple is still selling a Power Mac with PCI-X (http://www.apple.com/powermac/pcix.html) if you need such a system still.

[Fabio_gsilva]

can i just ask the guy whose church had a dual 2.7 stolen... what does a church do with a top of the line dual G5?? :eek: ;)

That's a good point!!!

Already answered, right...

[CHess]

Goddammit I'm so pissed right now...saved up for months to buy a Dual 2.7 Ghz Power Mac back in April (although it took a whole month to arrive but that's another story) thinking it would last...and now this a few months later. Apple have screwed me and many others again....70% performance advantage over yesterdays "top of the line" mac!!! But still we buy their products! If you're listening Jobs, offer to buy mine back and give me a mega discount on a quad, that will make me happy. :mad: :eek: :mad: :eek: :p

Why on earth would ANYBODY think that their top of the line computer would not be superceded in a matter of months? If it's the first computer you've ever purchased, I could maybe understand that. But, unless you've been living under a VERY BIG rock, you have to realize that times change and computers get faster. Well, maybe unless you're looking at Powerbooks :D

[gugy]

that's why I waited so long. The 2.7 gig were nice but I always felt that something better was around the corner. My patience paid off. Better machines and cheaper displays.
Never buy a computer after it's been introduce 6 months later. you can always regret it. plus make sure you check the rumor sites about any possible upcoming upgrade. that makes a safe bet IMHO.

[Mr Maui]

Aww... My single 1.8GHz G5 is getting old.. And what happened to ATI graphics cards? I need ATI.
It's a pup compared to my 350 MHz Blue and White G3. :p

[amac4me]

I'm happy with my Dual 2.5 but wouldn't mind a Quad :rolleyes:

[savar]

Apple still is being cheap when it comes to RAM. 512 for the top end machine that is sad. They should be shipping 1gb standard if they are going to charge $3200. Other then that I am glad to see more graphics card options and faster slots.

And $12000 to go to 16GB of RAM? That's $.75/megabyte, which sounds like a lot to me. I've not bought DDR2 RAM before, but I see it listed around $.20/megabyte other places.

I know Apple likes fat margins on BTO options, but come on, thats 3x the market price!

[Mr Maui]

That made me laugh! $300 extra for a machine that is possibly twice as fast when used properly?
What a rip!!! :rolleyes:

[enygma]

Apple finally did it the cemented the Power Mac as one of the worlds high end UNIX workstations. Now where are the high end UNIX workstation apps that require a Quadro FX?
Alias Maya... at least thats what I'm usin it for anyways.

[Chacala_Nayarit]

Sweet machines, especially the Quad! :cool:

Now, if I had the money.... :rolleyes:

[iQuit]

The Quad is the only thing I am impressed with, the PowerBook update wasn't even mediocre. The PowerMac also looks smaller, is the case smaller?

[savar]

It cracks me up when people constanly upgrade to crazy fast machines, so they can surf the web, chat, email and burn CD's with..... There is a VERY small market for such a powerful machine. Im willing to bet that maybe 5% of mac users would benefit. Otherwise, you are all just throwing away your money.

The way Safari crawls sometime it makes me wish I had four cores....besides I think what you mean is there is a small market for that power *at that price point*. Obviously if it cost half what it actually costs, people would buy like crazy. People will find new ways to use the extra space and power.

By the way, if anybody gets a 2x30" setup, can you please post the pictures? And dress up like Dr. Evil too.

[Platform]

Nice........quad....... :D :D

[shawnce]

The way Safari crawls sometime it makes me wish I had four cores....
That is a defect in Safari that in my testing appears related to use of some aspects of Java Script. It causes Safari to stall the main thread... having more cores wont really help with this at all. Hope for an updated Safari to address this issue.

[CyberDoberman]

I'm sitting here with a brand new Dual Core 2.3Ghz Machine.

I'll post benchmarks vs Dual 2.7 of yesterday here later tonight ;)

Stay tuned.

Oh, yeah... I've already ordered the 2.5 Quad machine... but am using this 2.3 until it is shipped :D

[myca]

Imagine my dismay when I'd finnally gathered the funds to get a powermac to replace my ageing old emac in my home studio set up only to find out updates were coming. So I waited and waited a bit more, and here we are today with quad macs and all, of course I was going to get the dual 2.0 (don't have that much spare cash to my shame), my only gripe was that the powercore and UAD1 cards that I'd budgeted for won't work in PCI-express slots, oh yeah I'm pi**ed. Not that i'm moaning about the updates, they seem cool but mosly on the top line model. But thankfully the model I was going to order before these updates was sitting there in the refurb spot with 27 percent off, so this means I saved over £300, Think I'll buy another UAD1 card when it arrives. Still envious that I can't have the quad though, but what the heck when I update it in 3 to 4 years who knows what'll be on the horizon.

[Lacero]

World-First test of the Power Mac G5 dual core! (http://media.99mac.se/g5_dualcore/)

"Starting today you can order a Power Macintosh G5 which will display dual processor bars inside the task manager with still only one processor on the motherboard – how does that work?
<snip>
We have tested the new Power Macintosh G5 2.3 Dual Core which only has one processor on the motherboard but theoretically should be faster than the old Dual machines anyways. Apart from the new processor, Apple have also transitioned to DDR2 memory like...."

http://media.99mac.se/nyhetsbilder/se/g5dualcore/g5front.jpg

[ncoffey]

I was xpecting a dual-core iMacG5, why the hell didnt they make that upgrade!
Damn!

Have a look at the size of the heatsink on those dual-core processors in the powermac. That's why!

[AidenShaw]

AidenShaw will probably chime in on this subject. The moment he does, I'm outta here. :p
No I won't....

[iQuit]

Is the form factor smaller?

[Lacero]

No I won't....
:D You just did. I see you've read my post. :p

[iQuit]

7600 RPM harddrive? 7200 RPM is the MAX I see.

(edit)Thought this was the PowerBook thread.

[gmanrique]

Here is a link to some benchmarks:

http://media.99mac.se/g5_dualcore/

I'm sitting here with a brand new Dual Core 2.3Ghz Machine.

I'll post benchmarks vs Dual 2.7 of yesterday here later tonight ;)

Stay tuned.

Oh, yeah... I've already ordered the 2.5 Quad machine... but am using this 2.3 until it is shipped :D

[Edit] Opps somebody already posted a link to this. Sorry

[ksz]

The G5 Quad saved the day. Being in a faraway timezone I went to sleep before the goodness started and just awoke to the new releases.

* The new PBs are a bit (but only a bit) disappointing. No PCIe graphics or 7448, nor a speedbumb. But higher density screens, new SuperDrive, DDR2 memory, more HD, and lower prices are okay. It's pretty clear that Apple will expend no further engineering bandwidth here. Freescale/Motorola have had engineering and volume-production problems from the beginning that they were *never* able to fix.

* The new PMs are exciting, even the low and mid if they are faster than their predecessors -- Apple's "marketing benchmarks" not withstanding.

* The Quad 2.5 is the real head-turner. I had almost given up hope, but here it is and it's exactly as good as expected! For those who do not intend to purchase Rev-A Mactels, the Quad 2.5 will be a keeper for a good 4+ years. Why not more? Probably because those who buy this level of performance are easily seduced by new product generations.

[ipacmm]

and don't forget to hit the "place order" button after that... :D

Well I pressed that button as well and my new PM is on its way.

[bobbyd38]

Does anyone know if the new Powermac G5 Quad still has a Liquid Cooling system? I've always been a little leary about them.

Bob

[artifex]

Goddammit I'm so pissed right now...saved up for months to buy a Dual 2.7 Ghz Power Mac back in April (although it took a whole month to arrive but that's another story) thinking it would last...and now this a few months later. Apple have screwed me and many others again....70% performance advantage over yesterdays "top of the line" mac!!! But still we buy their products! If you're listening Jobs, offer to buy mine back and give me a mega discount on a quad, that will make me happy. :mad: :eek: :mad: :eek: :p

How were you screwed? Did you get the product you paid for?
Buy the very last G5 PowerMac after the MacTels come out, and then you won't have to worry about them improving the design of the G5 PowerMac any more.
And yes, I think they have at least one more revision left right now.

[gangst]

I was looking at the BTO options on the new Powermac and saw that you can purchase non-ecc which is far cheaper than ecc. What are the benefits of ecc over non-ecc and is the price difference worth it?

[johannes]

Imagine my dismay when I'd finnally gathered the funds to get a powermac to replace my ageing old emac in my home studio set up only to find out updates were coming. So I waited and waited a bit more, and here we are today with quad macs and all, of course I was going to get the dual 2.0 (don't have that much spare cash to my shame), my only gripe was that the powercore and UAD1 cards that I'd budgeted for won't work in PCI-express slots, oh yeah I'm pi**ed. Not that i'm moaning about the updates, they seem cool but mosly on the top line model. But thankfully the model I was going to order before these updates was sitting there in the refurb spot with 27 percent off, so this means I saved over £300, Think I'll buy another UAD1 card when it arrives. Still envious that I can't have the quad though, but what the heck when I update it in 3 to 4 years who knows what'll be on the horizon.

I feel your pain. I too need a PCI-X slot for my audio interface. I just think it's weird for Apple to do this since pro audio is a huge market for Powermacs.

[Eldentistfuturo]

any have an idea when this will show up on amazon?

[paulypants]

I feel your pain. I too need a PCI-X slot for my audio interface. I just think it's weird for Apple to do this since pro audio is a huge market for Powermacs.

Hey, They still offer the Dual 2.7 with PCI-X slots. It's $2799 though...

[artifex]

Funny ... but I tried the same thing. Just had to know what it would cost. :eek:

What will be even funnier is if you configure that, and then leave it in the saved cart for a couple of days. Apple will call you, asking if you have any questions, and if they can do anything to help you with your purchase.

(This wanting to be my friend business almost makes up for the terrible service at the Willow Bend (http://www.apple.com/retail/willowbend/) store. Almost.)

[aquafina]

I'm assuming the ECC will be slower but the trade off will be more reliable memory writes...though I'm not sure how often there is actually a check fail on memory. anyway, how much slower?

[myca]

Hey, They still offer the Dual 2.7 with PCI-X slots. It's $2799 though...

Yeah cool thing is though I just ordered a Dual 2.0 refurb for under £1000, thats nearly 30 percent cheaper than it was just yesterday. Think I'll stick with that for a while, at least I know I can update it with DSP cards and magma chassis if it runs low on horse power, and hell It's gonna be a lot quicker than my old eMac. I don't wanna get a new dualcore and wait a year for DSP cards and audio interfaces that'll work with it...... that quad does look teasing though, but I can't afford it anyhoo.

[EricNau]

Ok, I've noticed these new machines have a front side bus speed of something like 1.25 Ghz :eek: Can someone explain to me what that is, I know it's important, but not sure exactly what it does. :confused:

[GyroFX]

can someone say DAYSTAR GENESIS?...

[adroit]

Awsome! Apple didn't even cripple out the Dual 2GHz one this time :D
[checking my bank account]

[aussie_geek]

The new 2.5 is one hell of a computer. It is the IIfx of 2005....

[combatcolin]

Would i be correct in saying that a Dual Core G5 would be a better Mac games machine (i use that word sparingly!! :( ) than a same speed Dual CPU.

Looking to upgrade and would like to return back to Apple, however moving house is not cheap and the fees are mounting.

But, drool...dribble... shiney new kit...

[howard]

is a dual core 2ghz faster than a dual 2ghz? if so why?

[crackrock]

Someone Ebay your old computer I need something faster than what I have but I don't have $4000.

[zap2]

the pics of the new PM looks smaller! werid right?

well my i'm(me and grandma) are picking up a 17'' PB but it a secret) for xmas for mom so dont tell her!


i want the quad PM i'd be set for awhile

[shawnce]

I feel your pain. I too need a PCI-X slot for my audio interface. I just think it's weird for Apple to do this since pro audio is a huge market for Powermacs.
Others said it was weird that Apple didn't bump up to PCIe earlier... :D

Seriously expect PCIe audio cards soon, be happy Apple included an 8 lane PCIe slot in addition to two 4 lane slots and that the 8 lane slot doesn't get blocked by having a huge high-end video adapter.

[shady28]

Goddammit I'm so pissed right now...saved up for months to buy a Dual 2.7 Ghz Power Mac back in April (although it took a whole month to arrive but that's another story) thinking it would last...and now this a few months later. Apple have screwed me and many others again....70% performance advantage over yesterdays "top of the line" mac!!! But still we buy their products! If you're listening Jobs, offer to buy mine back and give me a mega discount on a quad, that will make me happy. :mad: :eek: :mad: :eek: :p

I wouldn't sweat it, for one the top line system now costs $300 more than your dual 2.7.

For another - these initial benchmarks - they are not being looked at very closely.

Once this mania dies down, I think in-depth looks at the performance of these machines will show that the low end and midrange powermacs were not really much of an upgrade (if any). Take a look at the cpu performance of the dual 2.5 vs dual core 2.3, then take a look at the multithreading performance of the dual 2.5 vs dual core 2.3

People are out to 'prove' something right now, and the benchmarks will be presented in such a way as to prove their point, but my experience is that dual processor > dual core, and those benchmarks are acutally whispering that fact for those that want to look. I can about guarantee you that there is no more than a 30% difference in overall performance of the new 2.5Ghz dual dual core (quad) vs the 2.7ghz dual processor. You can already see by the benchmarks that for multitasking, the old dual processor boxes outrun the new single chip dual core boxes...

All that said, the dual processor dual core box is definitely a step up, but not as big as it's being hyped up to be.

I am seriously disappointed in the other two boxes. I would vastly prefer to see a low end dual 2.3 and midrange dual 2.5 than the singe cpu dual core boxes they gave us. I am thinking now is a great time to buy one of the now discontinued dual 2.0 or dual 2.3 boxes.

[nagromme]

can someone say DAYSTAR GENESIS?...

On my first Mac-using job (where I had to learn them despite hating Macs) I ended up with one on my desk :) Quad-processor G2! 200Mhz I think... maybe even 180. :D

I used to run Strata Studio Pro. I learned to appreciate the Mac, but I never stopped hating Strata! :)

[Tastannin]

Did some quick Googling around for PCI Express cards. Some interesting ones out there - and the connectors are very small too! Wow. Check out the photos at the linkys below!

Belkin PCI-E Firewire card (http://catalog.belkin.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Merchant_Id=1&Section_Id=&pcount=&Product_Id=249082)

Belkin PCI-E Internal/External SATA II RAID card (http://catalog.belkin.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Merchant_Id=1&Section_Id=&pcount=&Product_Id=249072#)

4 channel SATA II PCI-E RAID Card (http://www.pc-pitstop.com/sata_raid_controllers/arc1220.asp)

Also, I think that we will see the new Macintels come out with pretty much the same motherboard features we see today on the new G5's. Hopefully a couple more drive bays tho. :)

[manu chao]

EDIT: Question answered below. One FW 800, no internal modem, separate digital and analog audio I/O.

BTW, the specs say ONE Firewire 800 port, but I swear I see two here:

I see, from top to bottom:

Dual ethernet
Modem
FW 400
Dual FW 800? Am I crazy?
Audio I/O
Three USB

Yes, but one of the two FW800 ports is a dummy one. :D

[ffakr]

The top-end machines seems nice, although not enough pre-installed memory. But what is not workstation like, are the hard-drives

Um, it's configurable with any amount of memory you like. Given Apple's markup on memory, I'd rather have less so I can load up on faster Crucial or other 3rd party, first tier memory. You can get low latency DDR2 from a good vendor for less than Apple's normal latency. If I were buying a quad core machine I wouldn't hobble it with normal high latency DDR2.
I'm not able to confirm that the new controller supports lower latency DDR2 but the iMac G5 and the Older G5s support DDR down to 2 CAS though they ship with CAS3.

Also, what's not workstation-like about Hitachi's 250GB and 500GB drives? These are the same drives in the xServe RAID.
Granted, I like the Maxtor 300GB with 16MB cache but those aren't terrible drives (I run the MaxLineIIIs in my XServe and Dell 1U and they smoke).
So, they don't have incredibly overprices SCSI drives or way overpriced Raptors.. they have fast, reliable, large SATA drives.

My only real complaint about drives is.. no hardware mirroring or striping. If you've got a good disk-to-disk backup system, this thing would scream with L1 RAID (it does double you chance of a volume failure after all).
I suppose I'd also like NCQ. It's SATA-150 which can have NCQ but I do believe NCQ is standard on SATA2-300.

Overall I love the new machines. It's like Tiger, polish everwhere.
Dual GigE you can aggregate, PCI-E, built in Airport wireless antenna....

is a dual core 2ghz faster than a dual 2ghz? if so why?

Dual core can be faster because, the cores can snoop on each other's caches.. they can cooperate more efficiently...
Dual core can be slower because two cores now share a Front Side bus while dual processor machines generally have their own busses. This should be fairly uncommon though as the FSB has way more bandwidth than the memory bus.

If the code threads with a very low level of parallelism where the threads are dependent on the results of other threads, dual-core should be better.
If the threads are very memory intensive and very independent.. then dual processor may be faster.

These dual-cores do have an extra advantage. Not only are they dual core on a very fast FSB, they have twice the L2 cache of the old CPUs.

[artifex]

My birthday is tomorrow and my wedding is in about 3.5 weeks. Any takers?

Of all that old hardware in your signature? Sure, you can unload it on me. My gift to you is an uncluttering of your space. I'm sure your fiance will be even happier with the idea :) Where are you? I'm in Dallas, so I need to know soon if I should try to drive over to pick it all up, before the wedding.

[Mac Kiwi]

Quadros is a very good start,but why not also say the 3400 etc.Those 4500s are way over priced.Maybe some Fire gls will end up in the mix a little later on as well.



Am very tempted by the quad for 3D work,but once the Intels land I wonder how many years the quads etc will still be supported with the old atchitecture.



All up though this is a very good move towards getting the studios looking a bit harder.I know for a fact the lack of high end card was something holding many back.The dual boot option of the new Intels coming though is something I think many studios might just wait a bit longer for.

[artifex]

That is a defect in Safari that in my testing appears related to use of some aspects of Java Script. It causes Safari to stall the main thread... having more cores wont really help with this at all. Hope for an updated Safari to address this issue.

JavaScript seems to eat FireFox's lunch, sometimes, too. At least as recently as 1.0.7. And don't even think about JavaScript and heavy Flash on a website, under FF. I've seen that beachball everything, not just FF.

[nospleen]

I am getting sick of Apple sticking it to us. 512 ram on a top of the line machine? They are saving money on the bottom two Powermacs by only having to purchase one chip. But, they are charging the same? Why not put another chip, or maybe discount the price some?? It is getting old, Apple may be more greedy than Microsoft. If OSX was available on something else, I would definately by us. What a slap in the face...

[nagromme]

Is that nVidia Quadro the best GPU choice currently for GAME performance? Or is it less useful for that?

[risc]

I am getting sick of Apple sticking it to us. 512 ram on a top of the line machine? They are saving money on the bottom two Powermacs by only having to purchase one chip. But, they are charging the same? Why not put another chip, or maybe discount the price some?? It is getting old, Apple may be more greedy than Microsoft. If OSX was available on something else, I would definately by us. What a slap in the face...

LOL I find it amazing that Apple can release a quad core @ 2.5 GHz box and people still find something to complain about, honestly if you can afford to buy this box you can afford to buy RAM! :rolleyes:

Is that Quadro the best choice currently for GAME performance? Or is it less useful for that?

The graphics card on the AGP Power Macs are better for gaming than the current ones available for the PCIe Power Macs.

[iGary]

I like how Airport Extreme and BT are still BTO.

512 MB if RAM on a pro machine?

LOL

Nice upgrade, though. Can't wait to see the quad benchmarks when they ship in February. :p

[Dopeyman]

Someone Ebay your old computer I need something faster than what I have but I don't have $4000.

What do you have right now?

[nospleen]

LOL I find it amazing that Apple can release a quad core @ 2.5 GHz box and people still find something to complain about, honestly if you can afford to buy this box you can afford to buy RAM! :rolleyes:

I am not saying the machine isn't nice. My main gripe is not even that it only comes with 512 ram, but that is just pathetic. If you can afford a Lexus, you expect Leather!! But, my point is to not put in an extra chip on the bottom two? Why not?? Because they want to continue to make a premium at our expense. If they only want one quad, I can understand. But, wouldn't you agree a little price cut would have been nice? After all, they are saving money. I just think it is a little greedy. The new imacs on the other hand, are an AWESOME deal. Apple could of charged more, but did not. I certainly do recognize that, but I just think they are really asking a premium for a single chip dual 2.0.

[Dopeyman]

is a dual core 2ghz faster than a dual 2ghz? if so why?


Yup, I'd like to get an answer to this question as well....

[Prom1]

Cheers to the others that wanted another G5 in the PowerMac before the transition in 2 years. I still think we'll see a Single Dual Core G5 low end & 2xDual Core G5 at 2.5Ghz and possibly 2xDual G5 3.0Ghz by next year end.

Man this is sweet. I had a chance to get an old used 1.8 Dual G5 this summer for $1800 Canadian (1GB Ram, not sure if it was PCI-X or not) without moving back to Toronto. Glad I moved to T-Dot. 2nd new job; worthy of adding to my resumé with much better pay. Although this place is cramped, and I was supposed to have a Cube G4 by now, I think its worth the wait another month. Then a Rev iMac G5 will adorn where my PC sits. If I'm smart, and frugal (no coffee, MacWorld/Addict Mags, spend less for public transit to work, hold out on the Nano, work holidays) I could net a sweet new DualCore 2.0Ghz by Xmas/Boxing Day. :eek: :D .

Who needs fashion clothes for work. :p

[risc]

...But, wouldn't you agree a little price cut would have been nice? After all, they are saving money...

These are brand new Macs with brand new components, how do we know what they cost Apple? I think it has been said before but I'll say it again Apple are in the business of keeping their share holders happy, no one else. Personally I think these machines are great value, it's a whole lot of workstation for not too much cash.

[~Shard~]

I am getting sick of Apple sticking it to us. 512 ram on a top of the line machine? They are saving money on the bottom two Powermacs by only having to purchase one chip. But, they are charging the same? Why not put another chip, or maybe discount the price some??

Yes, an amazing quad processing machine, Apple's really sticking it to us...
:rolleyes:

Apple charges a premium for RAM, that's just the way it is. It's not going to change. So basically you're saying you would prefer Apple to include more of their overpriced RAM in their machines without giving customers a choice, which would then result in a higher cost? I would much rather buy the bare minimum amount of RAM possible from Apple (just like they're offering) and then buy my own 3rd party RAM for much cheaper. :cool:

If OSX was available on something else, I would definately by us.

First of all, that sentence doesn't make any sense. :p Secondly, haven't you heard? OS X is available on PC. Everyone's hacking it. Go buy a PC. :cool:

[shawnce]

Is that Quadro the best choice currently for GAME performance? Or is it less useful for that?

All of the new Power Macs are likely better then prior Power Macs because the have faster memory, PCIe, and the option for more advanced video adapters.

The extra cores in the Quad system likely won't help much with most games but the fact that they run at 2.5GHz would make them potentially better then 2.0GHz and 2.3GHz dual core systems.

For CPU heavy games the old Power Mac 2.7 GHz may also be better but likely other factors, in particular PCIe and better adapters, could balance the raw single threaded performance difference.

I suggest folks look forward to Mac OS X 10.4.3, it should bring some nice stuff to OpenGL support on Mac (even for existing systems).

[nagromme]

Because they want to continue to make a premium at our expense.
Price out a comparable system from Dell. Looks like you'll pay a lot more than Apple's price.

(But don't overlook their displays... those are Mac-ready and priced nicely!)

[shawnce]

The graphics card on the AGP Power Macs are better for gaming than the current ones available for the PCIe Power Macs.

Well not when the GeForce 7800 GT shows up in the store as a BTO or ATI release a current retail card for them.


http://www.apple.com/powermac/graphics.html

[nospleen]

Yes, an amazing quad processing machine, Apple's really sticking it to us...
:rolleyes:

Apple charges a premium for RAM, that's just the way it is. It's not going to change. So basically you're saying you would prefer Apple to include more of their overpriced RAM in their machines without giving customers a choice, which would then result in a higher cost? I would much rather buy the bare minimum amount of RAM possible from Apple (just like they're offering) and then buy my own 3rd party RAM for much cheaper. :cool:



First of all, that sentence doesn't make any sense. :p Secondly, haven't you heard? OS X is available on PC. Everyone's hacking it. Go buy a PC. :cool:

I meant a legal way to run OSX on a different machine. I am not into hacking or using software in a manner that is not intended. I LOVE OSX and i LOVE Apple. But, I do have the right to think a 3200 machine should have more ram. I am pretty sure most people would agree with me.

These are brand new Macs with brand new components, how do we know what they cost Apple? I think it has been said before but I'll say it again Apple are in the business of keeping their share holders happy, no one else. Personally I think these machines are great value, it's a whole lot of workstation for not too much cash.


Excellent point! I could be wrong, but I thought one of the benefits of dual core was they are cheaper to produce when compared to two actual chips. But, I could be wrong.

[CyberDoberman]

I wouldn't sweat it, for one the top line system now costs $300 more than your dual 2.7.

For another - these initial benchmarks - they are not being looked at very closely.

Once this mania dies down, I think in-depth looks at the performance of these machines will show that the low end and midrange powermacs were not really much of an upgrade (if any). Take a look at the cpu performance of the dual 2.5 vs dual core 2.3, then take a look at the multithreading performance of the dual 2.5 vs dual core 2.3

People are out to 'prove' something right now, and the benchmarks will be presented in such a way as to prove their point, but my experience is that dual processor > dual core, and those benchmarks are acutally whispering that fact for those that want to look. I can about guarantee you that there is no more than a 30% difference in overall performance of the new 2.5Ghz dual dual core (quad) vs the 2.7ghz dual processor. You can already see by the benchmarks that for multitasking, the old dual processor boxes outrun the new single chip dual core boxes...

All that said, the dual processor dual core box is definitely a step up, but not as big as it's being hyped up to be.

I am seriously disappointed in the other two boxes. I would vastly prefer to see a low end dual 2.3 and midrange dual 2.5 than the singe cpu dual core boxes they gave us. I am thinking now is a great time to buy one of the now discontinued dual 2.0 or dual 2.3 boxes.

Don't be. Probably better off buying the discounted $2700 / $2500 with edu. discount Dual 2.7Ghz Machine.

I'm in the middle of all my benchmarks, with an OLD 2.7Ghz G5, and a spanky new 2.3 Dual Core...

Both systems have 2 Gig Ram, 500Gig Bootable RAID setup, and everything else is default.

The OLD 2.7Ghz is D E S T R O Y I N G, I repeat, absolutely D E S T R O Y I N G the Dual Core 2.3.

Just to give you a BIT of an idea...

Just installing OS X 10.4.2 from the SAME INSTALL DVD gave these install times (timed from the LAST press of the button, to the screen that says "reboot in x seconds")

NEW G5 2.3Ghz DUAL CORE Install Time: 11 Minutes, 20.5 Seconds $2499
OLD G5 2.7Ghz SINGLE CORE Install Time: 7 Minutes, 15.6 Seconds $2799

More to come. What a lame upgrade so far :rolleyes:

$300 seems to buy a HELL of a lot of MACHINE.

I would have REALLY loved to have seen a Dual Core DUAL CPU 2.7Ghz Watercooled model, instead of the DOWNGRADE to 2.5 Dual Core DUAL.

ARGH!

[nospleen]

Price out a comparable system from Dell. Looks like you'll pay a lot more than Apple's price.

(But don't overlook their displays... those are Mac-ready and priced nicely!)


But I do not want a Dell!!! :eek: Damn guys and gals, take it easy on me. I just wanted a little price drop and more ram. It is not like I am running XP or something. :D

[oskar]

Interesting how these specs (http://www.apple.com/powermac/dualcore.html) are compared to the previous top of the line G5 and the 3-or more-year-old G4. No more comparisons to Intel processors? :rolleyes:

No way Apple will go to 32-bit processors after these PowerMacs. Not that I really care for now. I think the top of the line G5 is awesome. I want one now. :D

[iGary]

I am not saying the machine isn't nice. My main gripe is not even that it only comes with 512 ram, but that is just pathetic. If you can afford a Lexus, you expect Leather!! But, my point is to not put in an extra chip on the bottom two? Why not?? Because they want to continue to make a premium at our expense. If they only want one quad, I can understand. But, wouldn't you agree a little price cut would have been nice? After all, they are saving money. I just think it is a little greedy. The new imacs on the other hand, are an AWESOME deal. Apple could of charged more, but did not. I certainly do recognize that, but I just think they are really asking a premium for a single chip dual 2.0.

I'm with you, if that makes you feel any better.

A sub-1,000-dollar iBook has better wireless and equal RAM stats than a $3,300.00 PM. :rolleyes:

[nospleen]

I'm with you, if that makes you feel any better.

A sub-1,000-dollar iBook has better wireless and equal RAM stats than a $3,300.00 PM. :rolleyes:

Thank goodness!!! It sucks when you like reading someones posts and they drop the hammer on you.
:D

[horace]

can i just ask the guy whose church had a dual 2.7 stolen... what does a church do with a top of the line dual G5?? :eek: ;)

SETI?
;)

[CyberDoberman]

SETI?
;)

Process a TON of donations :D

[nagromme]

But, I do have the right to think a 3200 machine should have more ram. I am pretty sure most people would agree with me.
I definitely agree that it's silly. But not so much because it increases the price (it does, but Apple's price is still competitive). Rather, it's silly to make you have to THINK about it and DO something. It's an inconvenience.

And I know you don't want a Dell :) I'm just saying Apple's price isn't unfair. And I don't necessarily think Apple should just eat the cost of more RAM.

[iIra]

Anyone else miss the Quicksilver G4s or the fruity iMacs? I'm literally drooling over the performance of these new G5s, but Apple's case designs lately just seem sort of cold and unemotional.

[nospleen]

Maybe for their Video Ministry. I have a friend and he is a Graphics Designer for a big Church. I know they use G5's.

[slick316]

The upgrades are not bad and are a good step up feature wise to something more future proof. I'm not going to upgrade any of my stuff for it, but I would think about buying one of these machines if I didn't already have one.
On a side note, anyone think that the AGP video cards made for G5's will shoot up in price before dissappearing? I want to get a X800 or 6800GT but $400+ is a lot right now, considering I have seen 7800GT cards for PC for less than $350.

[nospleen]

I definitely agree that it's silly. But not so much because it increases the price (it does, but Apple's price is still competitive). Rather, it's silly to make you have to THINK about it and DO something. It's an inconvenience.

And I know you don't want a Dell :) I'm just saying Apple's price isn't unfair. And I don't necessarily think Apple should just eat the cost of more RAM.


It is like a nice 7 button suit with sneakers! :D

[nagromme]

The OLD 2.7Ghz is D E S T R O Y I N G, I repeat, absolutely D E S T R O Y I N G the Dual Core 2.3.

Just to give you a BIT of an idea...

Just installing OS X 10.4.2 from the SAME INSTALL DVD gave these install times (timed from the LAST press of the button, to the screen that says "reboot in x seconds")

NEW G5 2.3Ghz DUAL CORE Install Time: 11 Minutes, 20.5 Seconds $2499
OLD G5 2.7Ghz SINGLE CORE Install Time: 7 Minutes, 15.6 Seconds $2799

More to come. What a lame upgrade so far :rolleyes:

Speaking for myself, OS install time is of no importance. I am not upset by a machine that costs less taking 4 minutes longer to install OS X. But your tests are appreciated--do share other results!

[iIra]

On a side note, anyone think that the AGP video cards made for G5's will shoot up in price before dissappearing? I want to get a X800 or 6800GT but $400+ is a lot right now, considering I have seen 7800GT cards for PC for less than $350.

It seems like outdated technology should get cheaper as it fades out. It doesn't make much sense to charge a premium for an obsolete video card.

[CyberDoberman]

Speaking for myself, OS install time is of no importance. I am not upset by a machine that costs less taking 4 minutes longer to install OS X. But your tests are appreciated--do share other results!


Thanks! I will ;)

The issue is not that it takes 4 minutes longer...

The issue is that the *Old* out of date machine is over 40% Faster at a task that might be slightly representative of overall machine feel (disk writing, dvd reading, cpu usage (think unzipping packages) and the like)... yet only 400Mhz Faster?

Somehow, I sincerely doubt that a 2.8Ghz P4 would be 40% Slower at installing Windows than a 3.2Ghz P4 would be.

It's that 40% slower that scares the bejeezus out of me for my other tests :)

By the way, I ONLY do real world tests...

I.e., startup, shutdown, cd-rip, dvd-rip, file duplication, firewire transfer, etc etc etc etc etc

Should be cool anyway, ? :)

[andrewag]

I like that dual cores have finally been implemented into the PowerMac. Pitty about no speed bumps (Apple would have done em if they were avail).

An alright update considering the PM has been updated quite reguarly.

My dual 2ghz still seems resonable so i'm happy ;) Buy now to miss a bad generation of intel rev a problems.

[MacNemesis]

Also, what's not workstation-like about Hitachi's 250GB and 500GB drives? These are the same drives in the xServe RAID.
Granted, I like the Maxtor 300GB with 16MB cache but those aren't terrible drives (I run the MaxLineIIIs in my XServe and Dell 1U and they smoke).
So, they don't have incredibly overprices SCSI drives or way overpriced Raptors.. they have fast, reliable, large SATA drives.


Actually the Xserve raids DO NOT use SATA drives, however the Xserve G5 systems do. Xraids still use Ultra ATA drives. Which stinks because it means you have to have extra drive modules for both systems that are incompatible. I do wonder what having SATA drives in the Xraids would do for performance. It would likely be faster, but would obviously require a rework of the controller. FWIW The drives in the Xraids are compatible with G4 xserves.

[nospleen]

I like that dual cores have finally been implemented into the PowerMac. Pitty about no speed bumps (Apple would have done em if they were avail).

An alright update considering the PM has been updated quite reguarly.

My dual 2ghz still seems resonable so i'm happy ;) Buy now to miss a bad generation of intel rev a problems.

But Apple could have bumped the speed. They COULD have released a Quad 2.0. But, maybe the cost would have been too high...

[iIra]

I'm holding out for a quad 3.0 iMac.

But Apple could have bumped the speed. They COULD have released a Quad 2.0. But, maybe the cost would have been too high...

I wonder how a quad 2.0 would have fared against a dual 2.7...

[DaftUnion]

I'm holding out for a quad 3.0 iMac.

LOL, then you'll never by buying an iMac I guess.

[slick316]

It seems like outdated technology should get cheaper as it fades out. It doesn't make much sense to charge a premium for an obsolete video card.

Maybe because they will be the last AGP cards made for Apple's or some dumb reason like that, I can see some sort of stupid reasoning for the price to not drop. ATI 9800 Pro's are still $300 new, a little high imho.

And another thing, why aren't cards like the 9650, 9800XT, X850XT, 6800 Ultra DDL, etc. available for purchase? Would be nice to have a variety of choices, but an X800 or 6800GT @ less then $300 would be fine :)

[MacNemesis]

... are salivating. A dual dual cored G5 with enhanced RAM for faster editing and rendering, esp. HD. Dual NICs so they don't have to spend the extra little bit for the NIC needed for Xsan (pennies considering, but it's still a nice touch). PCIe for motion/maya performance and PCIe available Fibre Channel card (although I wonder if that will affect throughput..) all at the same price. Plus those folks who don't think those extra pixels and battery power on the PBs don't mean anything, ask any graphics pro. This is not insignificant. Just because these updates don't matter to you doesn't mean they don't matter to someone. Too bad we deployed our editing lab in August.

[ksz]

Despite the new PMs and PBs, it's nice to see that the new iMac is still on center stage at apple.com. Now that we've seen the full complement of hardware updates (for the time being...I think), the new iMac seems to deserve the spotlight.

As for me, I will wait 4 weeks, drool over everyone's pictures and benchmarks, then order a Quad G5. It's almost hard to believe that it's here and it's exactly what we expected (even the price).

[iIra]

Despite the new PMs and PBs, it's nice to see that the new iMac is still on center stage at apple.com. Now that we've seen the full complement of hardware updates (for the time being...I think), the new iMac seems to deserve the spotlight.

Well the new PM/PB are intended as professional machines, and Apple doesn't really need to work too hard to convince professionals to use macs. It's the consumers that Apple has to convince, and that's the purpose of the iMac.