OK, you say not Iraq, what about....

[Backtothemac]

OK, you say not Iraq, what about North Korea. How do you view them? Real threat? If so, how do you handle them? They do have nukes remember. This one should be interesting.

[krossfyter]

man nk is a trip in this whole situation.


they have the ability of selling thier nukes to terrorists... and they would do it too.


something has to be done about this.


very complex issue.

[Backtothemac]

I agree, it is a very touchy subject. I think going peacefully is the best option, but they are really escalating the situation with all of their recent actions. They need to back down. Sanctions could back them in a corner though.

[sturm375]

Originally posted by Backtothemac
OK, you say not Iraq, what about North Korea. How do you view them? Real threat? If so, how do you handle them? They do have nukes remember. This one should be interesting.

McDonalds:D

But seriously, if you export some nice stuff, like MDs (as we did to USSR), the people will start to get a tast for some good stuff. The Communist government either will not, or cannot provide this, only a democratic/republic captilistic government will allow for these luxuries. The people will revolt (either violently, or non-violently), the government will change, and in a few decades you'll have a start of a new friendly country.

Problem with this is it takes time. Much longer than the terms of our polititions, and much much longer than our (American) attention spans. We want thing fast, and when they don't come back with instant change, the polititions won't get re-elected.

The long and short of it is I for one don't support going to war, yet. I prefer the diplomatic/economic solutions first. I definatly do not support a "pre-emtive" war. That is just PC for international aggression. Until they attack us, or our friends, we should not attack.

The one reason, which I support, for attacking without first being attacked is: The fact that the current N. Korean government is oppressing their people to the point of murder, and starvation. If we can varify that there is a movement within N. Korea, that supports a government change toward democracy, and capitalism, then we should support that movement with money, arms, troops, etc.

[drastik]

North Korea is a hard one. I'd like to think that Deterence theory comes into play here. We have nukes, they have nukes, no body is gonna use them cause it would mean instant vaporization. This is the situation with most nuclear powers in the world. On the other hand, India has nukes, and they aren't posturing like North Korea.

I would hope North Korea doesn't sell Nukes to terroists, if they do, we would certianly go to war with them. I think that the situation in Iraq is actualy clouding this issue for the time being.

BEcause of gradual cutting back on defense fo the past thrity years, the US is not really equipped at this time to fight a war on two fronts. I think NOrth Korea is aware of this and are seizing the oppertunity to gain a little power. The thing to remeber about North Korea is that they don't want the US, at least not yet. There first stop is South Korea, and they want that badly.

In the meantime, I think diplomacy is our only course with them because so much of the armed forces is commited to Iraq. Given the rising anti-americanism in all Korea, North Korea may see this as an oppertunity to win the hearts and minds in the South. Plant the seed that merica is malevolent, then draw in American armed forces with the threats. Might be enough to convince some in the South that the North is Right.

Also, we have to remember that North Korea is Commnist. Communism is brought about through a revolt of the people, so inapiring the South to rise against the US, and hence the Southern Government might accompish this goal.

[3rdpath]

n. korea has the goods on us...its a form of extortion.

the only real solution is to be the highest bidder...either thru investment capital, outright purchase or favorable trade status.

worked for china and russia. (and india and pakistan) and will probably soon work for iran.

[BenderBot1138]

Forget about North Korea... what about North Carolina, or North Dakota? What when they don't agree with everything we do? What do we do, rank the top 100 countries and Nuke the rest? And what does it take for a Country to make it into the top 100? At what point do we give them recognition?

:cool:

[Backtothemac]

Bender, brother you need help. Every country from us, to China, Russian, South Korea, Japan, Vietnam, etc, has a vested interest to keep nuclear weapons from becoming prominate in the Koreas.

[Moxiemike]

I think we should take every country who has ever had a person who said something, justifiable or not, against the USSA and bomb them into submission and make them get ol' glory tattooed on their foreheads.

We should then occupy them and take control, placing surveilance cameras everywhere in their towns, homes, bathrooms, etc.

We should outlaw their languages, their cultural heritages, etc. and make sure to only teach them american history, that we have edited to make the USSA look SUPER DUPER.

Essentially, we should assimiliate every country in the world, make them do out bidding and then make those "laws" that we write for them trickle down to the homebase, AKA North America.

Oh. and we should outlaw all canadien beers.

Finally, once a small fraction of people (american gov't) is in control, our leader, GWB should proclaim himself "King George the Second" and rechristen earth "The United States of America".

We should then focus our strategeries on taking over the planets in our solar system, making them very obvious followers of the USSA, by painting them red, white and blue.

Now we can move the crux of our take over to other planets in other systems, which we will have located, since American's are the brightest, and smartest people ANYWHERE.

We can then begin massive attacks on the rebel forces on other planets.

It'll be great.

Watch and see....

[BenderBot1138]

Originally posted by Backtothemac
Bender, brother you need help. Every country from us, to China, Russian, South Korea, Japan, Vietnam, etc, has a vested interest to keep nuclear weapons from becoming prominate in the Koreas.

I think we should sell Korea Nuclear Weapons so we can feed our poverty stricken fellow Americans... some of who do not even have running water.

:cool:

[BenderBot1138]

Originally posted by Moxiemike
I think we should take every country who has ever had a person who said something, justifiable or not, against the USSA and bomb them into submission and make them get ol' glory tattooed on their foreheads.

We should then occupy them and take control, placing surveilance cameras everywhere in their towns, homes, bathrooms, etc.

We should outlaw their languages, their cultural heritages, etc. and make sure to only teach them american history, that we have edited to make the USSA look SUPER DUPER.

Essentially, we should assimiliate every country in the world, make them do out bidding and then make those "laws" that we write for them trickle down to the homebase, AKA North America.

Oh. and we should outlaw all canadien beers.

Finally, once a small fraction of people (american gov't) is in control, our leader, GWB should proclaim himself "King George the Second" and rechristen earth "The United States of America".

We should then focus our strategeries on taking over the planets in our solar system, making them very obvious followers of the USSA, by painting them red, white and blue.

Now we can move the crux of our take over to other planets in other systems, which we will have located, since American's are the brightest, and smartest people ANYWHERE.

We can then begin massive attacks on the rebel forces on other planets.

It'll be great.

Watch and see....

Well said Moxiemike... and yeah... that Crazy Canuck beer has about 20 proof I hear... It's good to see someone's got perspective relating to how out of control everything is with our trying to watch the Whole damn planet as though we were some kind of crazed cosmic police or something.

:cool:

[idkew]

Originally posted by BenderBot1138


I think we should sell Korea Nuclear Weapons so we can feed our poverty stricken fellow Americans... some of who do not even have running water.

:cool:

better yet, lets give these people cash, instead of food. that way they can purchase cigarettes and beer instead of feeding their 5th child. you know- if they have another kid, they get $50 more a month. what a deal!

[medea]

SEOUL, South Korea -- Amid a row over its nuclear weapons program, North Korea's ruling party newspaper has fired a barb at Washington, saying the country is ready to deliver "bitter defeat and death" to a threatening United States.

Saturday's declaration follows a warning from the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) that North Korea was the closest member of U.S. President Bush's "axis of evil" to building a functional nuclear weapon.

North Korea's aggressive stance -- coupled with Washington's accusation on Friday that Iran was also "actively working" on a nuclear weapons program -- threatens to distract the U.S. as it tries to disarm Iraq. North Korea, Iran and Iraq make up Bush's so-called "axis of evil."

Condemnation has mounted against Pyongyang since it upped the ante in the nuclear row with the United States by saying on Thursday it would restart a nuclear reactor mothballed since 1994 after a deal with the then-Clinton administration.

"The DPRK [Democratic People's Republic of Korea] remains unfazed as it has made full preparations to cope with the confrontation and clash with the Yankees," a commentary in the ruling party newspaper Rodong Sinmun said.

"The army and people of the DPRK with burning hatred for the Yankees are in full readiness to fight a death-defying battle," the commentary said, carried by the North's official Korean Central News Agency.

Nuke threat 'tense'

Concerns over North Korea's nuclear ambitions have mounted since Pyongyang said earlier this week it intended to "unfreeze" its nuclear program and a demand that the IAEA remove cameras and seals from nuclear waste facilities where spent fuel rods are kept.

Speaking about the threat posed by North Korea, Mohamed ElBaradei, head of the IAEA, described the situation as "tense."

"I appealed to them to rethink their positions," ElBaradei told CNN's Christiane Amanpour. "We are waiting for their response."

ElBaradei said North Korea already has the capability to build nuclear weapons, and that Iran lagged behind, followed by Iraq.

On Friday, the U.S. accused Iran of "actively working" on a nuclear weapons program and said that recent satellite photographs of a massive nuclear power construction project "reinforce" that belief. (U.S.: Iran working on nukes)

The renewed escalation of tensions between Pyongyang and Washington follows the stopping and boarding of a North Korean vessel carrying Scud missiles to Yemen by Spanish and U.S. forces in the Arabian Sea on Wednesday.

North Korea has accused the United States of "unpardonable piracy" in seizing the ship, which eventually was allowed to continue on to Yemen. (N. Korea hits out at U.S.)

Mothballed

North Korea agreed in 1994 to freeze its nuclear facilities, at least one of which was suspected of having the capability to produce weapons-grade plutonium, in return for regular shipments of heavy fuel oil and the promise of newer and safer nuclear reactors from the Japan, South Korea and the United States.

That deal averted a possible military confrontation between Pyongyang and Washington.

But North Korea said the "Agreed Framework" is no longer valid and that it is unfreezing the facilities because it needs the power generated by the nuclear plants since the fuel oil shipments were halted earlier this month.

The oil program was voided by the United States after North Korea divulged a few weeks ago that it was engaged in a "highly enriched uranium program" -- violating international agreements and the agreed framework.

ElBaradei said North Korea's response to entreaties from the IAEA has not been positive.

"I think it's much better to try to find a diplomatic solution," he said. "I'm encouraged that even Washington today is speaking of an agreed settlement."

'Unacceptable'


ElBaradei: We are waiting for their response

In a telephone conversation on Friday, President Bush and South Korean President Kim Dae Jung agreed Friday that while North Korea's decision was regrettable and unacceptable, they would work with Japan and others to resolve the situation peacefully.

"The president will continue to work in concert with our allies," White House spokesman Ari Fleischer said. "And the fact of the matter is diplomacy -- often the best diplomacy -- takes time. And that is something the president will continue to pursue." (N. Korean move 'unacceptable')

The most serious concern, ElBaradei said, is North Korea's demand for the removal of seals and cameras from the spent fuel rod storage site -- and warning that they would remove them if IAEA does not. Access to those rods, ElBaradei said, would give North Korea the material for plutonium and would be a serious breach.

"If they were to remove the seals or cameras it will be in serious violation of their non-proliferation obligation. We will have to go to the Security Council," he said.

Intent unknown

But so far, North Korea has not requested the removal of the two on-site IAEA monitors -- the last barriers to a possible crisis with North Korea and the issue that pushed the United States close to war before the Agreed Framework was signed in 1994.

"We have our inspectors still on the ground, still monitoring the freeze of North Korean nuclear activities," ElBaradei said.

North Korea is closer to having nuclear weapons than either of its "axis of evil" companions, Iran and Iraq, ElBaradei said, but stressed that he could not address the intent of any of the three countries.


South Korean protesters shout slogans during an anti-North Korea rally in downtown Seoul on Friday

"We know at least that North Korea has a reprocessing plant, a process that ... reprocesses material into plutonium," he said. "They already have the technical capability if they want to have the plutonium."

"We do not know that Iran has an enrichment or reprocessing plant in operation. They don't have that capability yet."

"We know that Iraq, at least when we left in 1998, has no capability whatsoever to produce either a weapon or weapon-usable material," he said.

White House spokesman Fleischer, however, said the administration was less concerned with North Korea than Iraq "because the situation in Iraq involves somebody who has used force in the past to attack and invade his neighbors."

"That is not the history of North Korea for the last 50 years," he said. "The world cannot just be treated as a photocopy machine: the policies in one part of the world need to be identically copied through another. It's a much more complicated endeavor than that."

-- CNN's Christiane Amanpour and John King contributed to this report. http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/east/12/14/korea.nukes/index.html


Yes I would have to say that our issues with S.Korea are very serious and far more serious than we realize, Iraq hasnt really threatned us lately and Im sure they are still reeling over the Gulf War, its the oppostie really because we are going after Iraq in a preemptive way and we are not fully sure of Iraqs plan or motivations though we can make a close "guesstimate", S.Korea on the other hand is not hiding its intentions.

[Roger1]

I think we should take every country who has ever had a person who said something, justifiable or not, against the USSA and bomb them into submission and make them get ol' glory tattooed on their foreheads.


Just out of curiosity, what is the USSA?

We should then focus our strategeries on taking over the planets in our solar system, making them very obvious followers of the USSA, by painting them red, white and blue.


I thought everybody knew we owned them already? Why spoil them by painting them?:D

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by Backtothemac
OK, you say not Iraq, what about North Korea. How do you view them? Real threat? If so, how do you handle them? They do have nukes remember. This one should be interesting.

north korea...virtually..... absolutely, no threat

iraq...already evidence that they funded al qaeda

but iraq is 100 times the threat of al qaeda...so we have to stop saddam...but the semantics is in "how"

[jelloshotsrule]

Originally posted by jefhatfield
iraq...already evidence that they funded al qaeda


can i see?

[idkew]

Originally posted by jelloshotsrule


can i see?

i don't know about evidence, but saddamn praised the wtc attacks.

[jelloshotsrule]

Originally posted by idkew
i don't know about evidence, but saddamn praised the wtc attacks.

yeah, that's not evidence.

still waiting for some.. not saying it doesn't exist. haven't seen it though.

[krossfyter]

i have no idea whats goin on in this thread yo.



dig it

[diorio]

Originally posted by krossfyter
i have no idea whats goin on in this thread yo.



dig it

true that dawg

[Backtothemac]

Originally posted by jelloshotsrule


yeah, that's not evidence.

still waiting for some.. not saying it doesn't exist. haven't seen it though.

In the last 2 months they sold VX gas to Osama. They smuggled it out of Iraq and through Turkey.

[jelloshotsrule]

Originally posted by Backtothemac


In the last 2 months they sold VX gas to Osama. They smuggled it out of Iraq and through Turkey.

link? :)

what's vx gas?

[Mr. Anderson]

Originally posted by Roger1
I think we should take every country who has ever had a person who said something, justifiable or not, against the USSA and bomb them into submission and make them get ol' glory tattooed on their foreheads.


Just out of curiosity, what is the USSA?


That seems obvious - United Southern States of America.....:rolleyes:

I've actually met in person several people who think that the US should just conquer the world and then put all the people who don't like it someplace nasty - maybe the Sahara - and let them work it out amongst themselves.

I had a hard time not laughing in their faces....;)


D

[Backtothemac]

Originally posted by jelloshotsrule


link? :)

what's vx gas?

search cnn and fox news. They ran stories about it last week.

VX is a nerve agent. Rather nasty one. It was discovered by mistake in 1957, and is a vail pestiside. What it does. Take about a 1/2 of a teaspoon in a 10,000 squarefoot house, and everything would be dead in less than 1 minute. It liquifies your lungs, and makes it impossible to breathe. You spasum so hard that you break your own back, and before all of that, your skin melts off.

Nice isn't it.

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by Backtothemac


search cnn and fox news. They ran stories about it last week.

VX is a nerve agent. Rather nasty one. It was discovered by mistake in 1957, and is a vail pestiside. What it does. Take about a 1/2 of a teaspoon in a 10,000 squarefoot house, and everything would be dead in less than 1 minute. It liquifies your lungs, and makes it impossible to breathe. You spasum so hard that you break your own back, and before all of that, your skin melts off.

Nice isn't it.

i keep hearing on cnn that iraq might have produced mustard gas...wasn't that completely illegalized after wwI?

nasty stuff also

[jelloshotsrule]

hmm. i found this story. and it's the most recent....

Officials: No Hard Evidence in Nerve Agent Report (http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/12/12/sproject.irq.iraq.al.qaeda/index.html)


in conclusion, i'm not convinced.


and as horrible as the gas sounds, the graphic description doesn't convince me that they sold this stuff to any terrorists... again, not to say they don't have it, but even the US officials are saying they can't confirm it.

[Backtothemac]

Well, we do know that they had detailed plans on how to build a nuke, we have found trace evidence of chemical and biological agents in Afganistan, so we know they are getting it from somewhere. Point is, we know Sadam has aided them in the past so why not with WMD information and materials?


Oh, and Jef, you are right about the mustard gas.

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by jelloshotsrule
hmm. i found this story. and it's the most recent....

Officials: No Hard Evidence in Nerve Agent Report (http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/12/12/sproject.irq.iraq.al.qaeda/index.html)


in conclusion, i'm not convinced.


and as horrible as the gas sounds, the graphic description doesn't convince me that they sold this stuff to any terrorists... again, not to say they don't have it, but even the US officials are saying they can't confirm it.

cnn has been running increasing stories on the iraq terrorist connection

but there is also saudi arabia, yemen, jordan, and egypt...countires on our side

it is true that terrorism is not centered in any one country and some believe that bush' attack on iraq is a way to get brownie points for the 2004 election, but that does not discount the fact that saddam has been working on hiding "something" from weapons inspectors all these years

true, it's not proof that he has nukes or something, but i would rest better that saddam is not in power

but war talk aside, if the president sells this country's economy short while playing war a little too much elsewhere, i will be the first one at the polls to put the dems into office again

i voted for gore and realize that he had the elcetion stolen from him and i am shocked that he announced he won't run in two years

[jelloshotsrule]

Originally posted by jefhatfield
it is true that terrorism is not centered in any one country and some believe that bush' attack on iraq is a way to get brownie points for the 2004 election, but that does not discount the fact that saddam has been working on hiding "something" from weapons inspectors all these years

true, it's not proof that he has nukes or something, but i would rest better that saddam is not in power

but war talk aside, if the president sells this country's economy short while playing war a little too much elsewhere, i will be the first one at the polls to put the dems into office again

i voted for gore and realize that he had the elcetion stolen from him and i am shocked that he announced he won't run in two years

i agree that saddam is not good. i agree that he was hiding things. that said, it IS important that he's not linked to specific attacks against the US. our country hides things from other countries too. i am NOT saying that it is totally comparable, i'm just saying that just because he has hidden things, doesn't mean that we have good reason to attack.... certainly not an all out war that will kill many more than just soldiers.

as for gore... i'm glad he said he isn't running. it would have become a media circus (more than usual) based on him getting revenge. plus, he's a stiff bum... i hope to see a GOOD democrat... ha. that's not likely. but i don't want to feel like the only good candidate is one who'd be lucky to get 4% (ie, nader)...


EDIT: backdawg, how do we know he's helped terrorists in the past? also, we helped osama in the past......

unfortunately, i'm not too optimistic about that.

[Flickta]

The United States... So kind you are! You know, I'm not going to speak about the "threat" of Iraq (Nukes? Well, ok, but they do not have means of delivery! Their missiles just can not reach the US territory!) or N. Korea - where people are dying of hunger(and Korean missiles are worse than Iraquis)

I want to mention one thing. Totalitarian countries have full control of private life (secret services authorised to watch you, read your e-mail, listen to your telephone calls), are permanently in search of an enemy (invading different countries, eh?) and have great propaganda with Tv channels blaming terrorists, imperialists, communists etc, people loving their country and approving their leader's actions... The USSR was just that type of a country. And I'm really scared to see that another superpower (the second one :) which is now alone is turning into... well into what?

[Backtothemac]

As much as I respect you opinion, I have to disagree with you. The former Soviet Union had nothing in common with the US. We have the right to freely choose our destiny as we choose.

People in the FSU did not have that.

[3777]

Well for the most part I am very happy with George Bush, but I have to admit I think he screwed up royally when he said he "loathed" the leader of North Korea, Ping Pong Chung or whatever the hell his name is. North Korea, up to that point, had been coming out of a shell and seemed to be moving towards improving relations with the outside world. Since Bush's comments aired on 60 minutes, all hell has broken loose, and North Korea is more isolated and paranoid then ever. Too bad really.

[Rower_CPU]

Originally posted by 3777
<snip>Ping Pong Chung or whatever the hell his name is</snip>

And people wonder why the US is disliked internationally...:rolleyes:

[3777]

Originally posted by Rower_CPU


And people wonder why the US is disliked internationally...:rolleyes:

Kim Jeng Ill:rolleyes:

[Rower_CPU]

Originally posted by 3777
Kim Jeng Ill:rolleyes:

Kim Jong Il or Kim Jong-il :rolleyes:

[3777]

Originally posted by Rower_CPU


Kim Jong Il or Kim Jong-il :rolleyes:


It really doesn't matter because if he pisses us off we'll nuke him anyway:o

[Rower_CPU]

Originally posted by 3777
It really doesn't matter because if he pisses us off we'll nuke him anyway:o

Thanks for proving my point for me. ;)

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by jelloshotsrule


i'm just saying that just because he has hidden things, doesn't mean that we have good reason to attack.... certainly not an all out war that will kill many more than just soldiers.





there are other ways to take saddam out of power...diplomacy, special forces, cia/fbi/nsa, coup, etc without all out war

iraq has giver the un full access, so unless iraq does an all out strike on the us troops, we have no reason to launch an all out attack on iraq...it is saddam we want and not the lives of the innocent iraquis under him

[Flickta]

Originally posted by Backtothemac
As much as I respect you opinion, I have to disagree with you. The former Soviet Union had nothing in common with the US. We have the right to freely choose our destiny as we choose.

People in the FSU did not have that.

I agree with you on the second part. People in the FSU did not have much choice.

But do YOU have? Elections. Well, the public opinion is very important in the process, and it is formed by a mass-media... And all of these TV channels and Newspapers are someone's property. And there are very big companies which are extremely interested in certain results of a campaign. For example, they can be connected with oil... And dislike some countries(like, for instance, Iraq...) which are their competitors... And lobbie in Congress is not enough for them. So, what do they do? This is true democracy, isn't it? Well, I'm sure you better know your country, it's just my opinion, don't blame me for this!


P.S. But next time... When you choose...