Steve Jobs amongst America's Best Leaders [Archive]

MacRumors

Oct 25, 2005, 11:50 AM

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

USNews.com published a list (http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/051031/31intro.htm) of 25 individuals they've labeled as "America's Best Leaders".

The selection process (http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/051031/31process.htm) took place by a committee convened by the Center for Public Leadership. The committee considered over 300 names during the selection process and came to this list (http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/051031/31intro.htm).

Apple's Steve Jobs (http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/051031/31jobs.htm) made the cut:

They rise to the occasion in times of political crisis, but truly transformational leaders who change the world for the better remain rare in business. Which is why Steve Jobs is so fascinating.

Other notable individuals in the technology sector include Bill Gates (http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/051031/31gates.htm) and Google founders (Larry Page and Sergey Brin) (http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/051031/31google.htm).

supergod

Oct 25, 2005, 11:52 AM

Hmmm... I like this new interface guys. very sleek.

I'm getting sick of all of these articles on the greatness of Jobs. We get it!

ioinc

Oct 25, 2005, 11:58 AM

Top 25?

Wow... kind of questionable

wdlove

Oct 25, 2005, 11:59 AM

Congratulations to our Steve Jobs, he is very deserving of this honor. A very elite group indeed on that list. That is such an honor.

WeBleed4Real

Oct 25, 2005, 12:04 PM

So who's going to start the Steve Jobs for President campaign?

longofest

Oct 25, 2005, 12:10 PM

WHY does Gates get to share in this honor??? :mad:

(fyi... i know why, i'm just mad that it happened)

longofest

Oct 25, 2005, 12:12 PM

Top 25?

Wow... kind of questionable

You nuts? He only has pushed Apple into stratospheric numbers as far as sales go (and as far as Apple goes), and with it, he saved the Recording industry from their own destruction. Plus, he has Pixar, the ever-profitable and awesome picture studio that turns out great film after great film.

And I'm spent...

Multimedia

Oct 25, 2005, 12:17 PM

Zweben

Oct 25, 2005, 12:17 PM

Jobs would make a crazy president.

He'd change random stuff for apparently no reason only to let us watch in awe as it fixes everything.

w00master

Oct 25, 2005, 12:28 PM

Macmaniac

Oct 25, 2005, 12:36 PM

Jobs would make a crazy president.

He'd change random stuff for apparently no reason only to let us watch in awe as it fixes everything.
Steve would hold New Policy Tuesdays! He would get up on stage and do an elaborate Keynote on his tax policy complete with Turbotax eFiling demonstration!

There would be a new website www.policyrumors.com to discuss what was coming next, and a small group would always be claiming that the next policy would be new G5 powerbooks for all kids!

Instead of the state of the union MWSF would become the new stage for both new Apple products and new American policy!

Steve for 2008

nagromme

Oct 25, 2005, 12:38 PM

Condoleezza Rice.... and the CEO of Fox News :o

fartheststar

Oct 25, 2005, 12:39 PM

WHY does Gates get to share in this honor??? :mad:

(fyi... i know why, i'm just mad that it happened)

I find it amusing that when you click on "Bill Gates" the page shows up and his name appears as "Bill and Melinda Gates" as if "and Melinda" were his middle names. :rolleyes: They are doing a lot for charity though.

Good job on Steve Jobs!

ijimk

Oct 25, 2005, 12:39 PM

YAY STEVE! Now just up the size on the video ipods and lower the price by half lol. :P hey a guy can dream right lol

DavidLeblond

Oct 25, 2005, 12:41 PM

So who's going to start the Steve Jobs for President campaign?

Hmm, maybe not. He'd probably start off by firing all of New Mexico because it looked at him wrong. Then he'd apply special experimental laws to the western part of the US and tell them that they're better than the eastern part, causing another civil war.

Kidding of course, he's done an excellant job with Apple.

ibook30

Oct 25, 2005, 12:58 PM

Good press for Apple - and of course the media is ALWAYS right - so it must be true :D !

Yvan256

Oct 25, 2005, 01:09 PM

I'm not the biggest Gates fan myself, but I can see why he's included. He's one of the largest philanthropists in the world. The Gates foundation has provided some of the largest financial grants to various health organizations especially HIV/AIDS research.

w00master

He may be a huge philanthropist, but how he made his fortune is what's questionnable.

Would you really praise the RIAA, the Mafia or the oil cartel if they went and did some good with their money?

Am I a good guy if I steal 1000$ from you and then give 500$ to the poor?

I'm not comparing him with these organizations, but his fortune, yes.

ioinc

Oct 25, 2005, 01:16 PM

He may be a huge philanthropist, but how he made his fortune is what's questionnable.

Would you really praise the RIAA, the Mafia or the oil cartel if they went and did some good with their money?

Am I a good guy if I steal 1000$ from you and then give 500$ to the poor?

I'm not comparing him with these organizations, but his fortune, yes.

What is questionable about how he made his money?

I believe the overwhelming bulk of M$ revenue comes from Windows and Office.

Two programs that have increased the productivity for countless organizations.

pubwvj

Oct 25, 2005, 01:21 PM

Jobs would make a crazy president. He'd change random stuff for apparently no reason only to let us watch in awe as it fixes everything.

Kind of like Bush and Clinton but they weren't able to fix things...

I'll vote for Steve Jobs for CEO of America!

Yvan256

Oct 25, 2005, 01:21 PM

What is questionable about how he made his money?

I believe the overwhelming bulk of M$ revenue comes from Windows and Office.

Two programs that have increased the productivity for countless organizations.

Do a bit of research on how Windows and Office have became the-facto standards for organizations...

From MS-DOS to Windows Vista, it's always been either monopolistic practices, illegal practices, stolen ideas (if not stolen code), bankrupting the competition, locking out competition.

Microsoft shouldn't have their huge pile of money, and so shouldn't Bill.

ioinc

Oct 25, 2005, 01:36 PM

Do a bit of research on how Windows and Office have became the-facto standards for organizations...

From MS-DOS to Windows Vista, it's always been either monopolistic practices, illegal practices, stolen ideas (if not stolen code), bankrupting the competition, locking out competition.

Microsoft shouldn't have their huge pile of money, and so shouldn't Bill.

Without doing a ton of research I think Windows is an offshoot of a partnership that M$ had with IBM in the development of OS/2.

When that partnership fell apart M$ continued the development of Windows while IBM developed OS/2 2.0. The market chose windows over OS/2.

The fact that you had to buy an Apple machine to run a mac OS kept mac out of the game because of the increased price point (even though the Mac OS is clearly a better operation system).

Excel was initially developed my M$ (for the Mac) and when combined with Word became an unbeatable combination.

From what I can tell M$ did earn their huge pile of money.

What am I missing?

pubwvj

Oct 25, 2005, 01:36 PM

I'm not the biggest Gates fan myself, but I can see why he's included. He's one of the largest philanthropists in the world.

Yes, so he bought his way into history like so many past criminals, er, I mean big industrialists, of the past. Rape, pillage, murder, unlease an insecure OS that costs the world billions and then buy your way into history by donating a tiny portion of your plunder. Good method! Workds every time.

Yvan256

Oct 25, 2005, 01:38 PM

From what I can tell M$ did earn their huge pile of money.

What am I missing?

All the illegal and immoral parts of their history... :rolleyes:

Not all of their history is bad, but most of it is.

DavidLeblond

Oct 25, 2005, 01:45 PM

Come on, guys. I love my Mac, and I hate Microsoft. But to say they're criminals? Thats a stretch. Thats a big stretch.

Yeah they pretty much stabbed Apple in the back, but is that criminal? Is there Macintosh code floating around in Windows? Don't think so. Did they take a lot of Apple's ideas? Absolutely. Did Apple take a lot of Xerox's ideas? Absolutely. Should Xerox have been surprised that Apple took their ideas? Hell no. Should Apple have been surprised that Microsoft took THEIR ideas? Hell no.

If you say Microsoft is dirty, then you have to say Apple is as well. And PLEASE don't compare Microsoft to rapists. Thats just inane.

njmac

Oct 25, 2005, 01:46 PM

WHY does Gates get to share in this honor??? :mad:

(fyi... i know why, i'm just mad that it happened)

He is not in the top 25 for his work at Microsoft. As a matter of fact, Microsoft only gets a passing mention.

It is for his work with the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation that earned him this spot.

On the other hand, Steve was honored for his work - almost exclusively his work at Apple. He is a corporate leader, a trend setter, a visionary.

I was also suprised that most of the recipients were born in the mid fifties.

Fabio_gsilva

Oct 25, 2005, 01:53 PM

Congratulations, Steve!!!

The Reality Distortion Field is geting stronger every day!!!:D

ioinc

Oct 25, 2005, 01:57 PM

All the illegal and immoral parts of their history... :rolleyes:

What big organization is this not a true statement about?

hmmmmm ... let me think... this ia a hard one.

How 'bout the U.S govt.... no... no thats no good.

hmmm ... how 'bout the Catholic Church.... nope not them either.

Let me think about this and get back with an answer

p0intblank

Oct 25, 2005, 02:23 PM

Steve, without a doubt, deserves this honor. He has an amazing past to him, many memories that changed the computer world, has had a fabulous success with the iPod and the Mac is doing great as well. I definitely consider him an inspirational role model. :)

MM2270

Oct 25, 2005, 02:24 PM

Did Apple take a lot of Xerox's ideas? Absolutely.

Uhm, Apple didn't take Xerox's ideas, they licensed them. BIG difference buddy. So your analogy here doesn't work.
Still, I agree that it's not necessarily fair to call MS and Bill criminals per-se, but I would say that he's a bit ruthless and shady in how he's conducted business over the years.

digitalbiker

Oct 25, 2005, 02:40 PM

All the illegal and immoral parts of their history... :rolleyes:

Not all of their history is bad, but most of it is.

What and you think Jobs is squeeky clean? Just look at how Jobs got his start. He recognised that he knew very little about how computers and technology worked so he latched on to the smartest guy he knew "Steve Wosniak".

He then proceded to negociate for Woz and lied to Woz about the money he was getting for Woz's ideas. It was suppose to be 50-50 but Jobs lied to Woz and ended up with the lions share of the split.

This was how Steve Jobs started, "Do you think the stories are any less ruthless now?" Many, many former Apple design engineers and techs talk about what an "A**hole" Jobs is to work for.

He could care less about what an employee's personal situtation is and more about the "Bottom Line", "What can you do for me to make me money?"

DavidLeblond

Oct 25, 2005, 02:44 PM

Uhm, Apple didn't take Xerox's ideas, they licensed them. BIG difference buddy. So your analogy here doesn't work.
Still, I agree that it's not necessarily fair to call MS and Bill criminals per-se, but I would say that he's a bit ruthless and shady in how he's conducted business over the years.

Didn't Apple license UI concepts to Microsoft?

SharksFan22

Oct 25, 2005, 02:52 PM

Am I a good guy if I steal 1000$ from you and then give 500$ to the poor?

Isn't that what the United States Internal Revenue Service does every year? :D

Stridder44

Oct 25, 2005, 02:58 PM

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y210/Entity79/PedoBearSeal.gif

DavidLeblond

Oct 25, 2005, 03:01 PM

Isn't that what the United States Internal Revenue Service does every year? :D

*rimshot*

good one!

Lertie32

Oct 25, 2005, 03:03 PM

Steve may be "tenacious" in business and a tough CEO, but with the Apple successful track record, it seems to work.

I sure wish we saw LOTS more of him - speeches, events, etc. I'm sure he's insanely busy with Apple, but his personal genius and social influence seems to be lost in relative isolation. I'd hate being around press and hordes of fans all the time too, but it'd be nice for us to see the "human" side of Steve more.

As for other people on the list. Kudos to Oprah for her quality accomplishments - a worthwhile talk show that she frequently uses a forum social issues. Not to mention her personal contributions to charity, etc.

Colin Powell. Of course. He is an epitome of a leader in so many ways. I've met him and heard him speak, and I was in awe. I was sorry to see him decline political offices. Condi is also very impressive from what I've seen of her. And Lt. Gen Petraeus... HOOYAH! I'm sorry to see that Tommy Franks didn't make the list though.

See, think of how much more inspiration, motivation, innovation that Steve could generate if he was even a fraction as publicly vocal/visible as Oprah and Powell. And think of how much Apple's market share and recognition would grow. The thought of the possible ripple effects is astounding!

Congrats, Steve.
:)

Yvan256

Oct 25, 2005, 03:07 PM

Come on, guys. I love my Mac, and I hate Microsoft. But to say they're criminals? Thats a stretch. Thats a big stretch.

If you think there's only Microsoft-Apple-Xerox in Microsoft's history, you're missing a huge part of the picture.

Also, the only reason a company can be brought to court for being a monopoly is when they're doing illegal things with it. Yes, Microsoft are criminals (illegal monopoly), and it's not an opinion, that's a fact (use Google if you need to refresh your memory). Not all criminals are rapists or drug dealers, by the way.

And we're not even talking about the earlier days of MS-DOS here, which aren't any better for Microsoft's PR.

Yvan256

Oct 25, 2005, 03:12 PM

What and you think Jobs is squeeky clean? Just look at how Jobs got his start. He recognised that he knew very little about how computers and technology worked so he latched on to the smartest guy he knew "Steve Wosniak".

He then proceded to negociate for Woz and lied to Woz about the money he was getting for Woz's ideas. It was suppose to be 50-50 but Jobs lied to Woz and ended up with the lions share of the split.

I do know Steve Jobs isn't a technical person and that Apple started with him and Steve Wozniak, but I didn't know Jobs lied to Woz. What happened exactly, I don't know.

This was how Steve Jobs started, "Do you think the stories are any less ruthless now?" Many, many former Apple design engineers and techs talk about what an "A**hole" Jobs is to work for.

He could care less about what an employee's personal situtation is and more about the "Bottom Line", "What can you do for me to make me money?"

Except that last time I checked, being an asshole and a perfectionnist weren't crimes. And yes I did hear about those stories. I also heard about people always complaining, and Steve's view on "doing more than just what's necessary", and that's one of his strength and what makes OS X what it is today. "Think different" isn't always positive for the people around you, especially if they're used to their comfy "minimum work and thinking" positions.

Chacala_Nayarit

Oct 25, 2005, 03:13 PM

Condoleezza Rice.... and the CEO of Fox News :o

Scary, huh? I have no idea why they made the list - only in America! :(

Yvan256

Oct 25, 2005, 03:13 PM

Isn't that what the United States Internal Revenue Service does every year? :D

Well, the Canadian government too, but then again the governments make the laws. ;)

P.S.: off-topic, but the new forums software is really nice!

longofest

Oct 25, 2005, 03:26 PM

I'm not the biggest Gates fan myself, but I can see why he's included. He's one of the largest philanthropists in the world. The Gates foundation has provided some of the largest financial grants to various health organizations especially HIV/AIDS research.

w00master

Yeah, but you shouldn't get to be a philanthropist by stealing and cheating. The plain fact is he got his wealth by creating the windows monopoly and violating anti-trust laws to grow it into the empire it is today. So, that kinda negates a lot of the good work he does now. While I'm glad he does do the good work he does, it would be nice if he didn't get the $$ by stealing it.

Lertie32

Oct 25, 2005, 03:27 PM

P.S.: off-topic, but the new forums software is really nice!

???
New forum software? What exactly are you referring to?
I must have missed an announcement of something...

ioinc

Oct 25, 2005, 03:29 PM

Except that last time I checked, being an asshole and a perfectionnist weren't crimes.

I am pretty sure being an asshole is also not one of the qualities of the top 25 leaders.

jouster

Oct 25, 2005, 03:45 PM

the_mole1314

Oct 25, 2005, 03:49 PM

The CEO of C-Span is on the list.

'nuff said.......

sushi

Oct 25, 2005, 03:57 PM

I would be very surprised if it were based on his philanthropy, laudable though it is. I think it is his leadership of Microsoft that put him there.
You might want to read the article before you comment like this.

Sushi

MacRy

Oct 25, 2005, 04:27 PM

Yes, so he bought his way into history like so many past criminals, er, I mean big industrialists, of the past. Rape, pillage, murder, unlease an insecure OS that costs the world billions and then buy your way into history by donating a tiny portion of your plunder. Good method! Workds every time.

You can't seriously mean what you said there. I worry about the level of intelligence of some people here when they post things like this. Likening the practices of one of the world's most philanthropic people to those who rape, pillage and murder. Seriously, have a word with yourself!

MM2270

Oct 25, 2005, 04:38 PM

Didn't Apple license UI concepts to Microsoft?

Sure, but only under coercion from Microsoft. Y'see, MS was one of the first application developers for the new Mac back in '84-'85. Apple knew it had to have apps run on it to sell the machine, and MS wanted to break into applications, since all their previous attempts to do so were flops. (up until that point they only wrote programming languages and DOS, which the also stole) So MS starts making apps for the Mac and then at the last minute Bill threatened not to ship the products unless Apple licensed some of the codebase of the GUI to MS. Apple reluctantly agreed to this (unfortunately), which made their case in court later against MS when they started BLATANTLY ripping off the Mac, impossible to win, because they had agreed to license some portion of the code in the past. Billy boy used a loophole get away with theft, pure and simple.

Look, make no mistake about it- most if not nearly everything that MS has done has been by copying others. They rarely do original work, unless you count Microsoft Bob. Now THERES a classic example of Microsoft innovation at work :rolleyes:

Fabio_gsilva

Oct 25, 2005, 04:45 PM

Very cool to read this news.

I never had known that Bill Gates ran a foundation, what is pretty human and cool. For what i could understand, and I don't know if it's entirely true, he and his wife are very focused in helping people, and this is very important.

If a lot of others big players in the global economic games start acting like Gates, we will share a better world.

It is cool either to read aobut north americans most important leaders, and the kind of leader considered in the article. I'm sure that a brazilian magazine would put a completely different rank about local leaders... Other values, other votes.

Hugs.

portent

Oct 25, 2005, 04:46 PM

This is a list compiled by a business publication of people who displayed the skills necessary to lead a large organization. Both Jobs and Gates have certainly shown the capacity to take bold steps on behalf of their respective companies.

Neither man is the next Mother Teresa. That's not what this is about.

Come on, guys. I love my Mac, and I hate Microsoft. But to say they're criminals? Thats a stretch. Thats a big stretch.

Please tell that to the US Department of Justice, which charged Microsoft with violating the Sherman Antitrust Act, and the US District Court for the District of Columbia, which found Microsoft guilty.

And do be sure to mention that to the US Court of Appeals, which continues to oversee the settlement of the above charges to this day.

Grandier

Oct 25, 2005, 04:55 PM

Condoleezza Rice.... and the CEO of Fox News :o

Indeed! :( Those two are worse than Bill Gates!

IllTakeAnApple

Oct 25, 2005, 05:29 PM

a little off subject but does that issue come out next week on the 31st and a secondary question where can i get a copy. Im a business major and could stand to learn something from these guys/gals.

iHavenolife

Oct 25, 2005, 05:47 PM

Jobs Rules.

He has saved apple and other things
who cares if gates is on it??

VanMac

Oct 25, 2005, 05:48 PM

Steve is the man.

One of the few IT leaders I would like to actually meet.

EricNau

Oct 25, 2005, 06:41 PM

I think Steve Jobs is twice the leader of all/most of the people on that list, simply because he is the CEO of 2 companies!

EricNau

Oct 25, 2005, 06:41 PM

Anyone notice that George W. didn't make the list? :p

kjs862

Oct 26, 2005, 12:49 AM

Hello everyone this is an argurment for Mr. Gates. How do you feel about living in America. See the beauty of it is that if your white male and are upperclass you can pretty much get away with anything (ie.. fraud, embezzlement, etc.) I don't think this is right by any means, but atleast he has the decency to give back to the world that is much more corrupt then he. He is a man whos wealth surpasses the majority of gov't funding for many countries in the world.

lets just be thankful hes not a dictator. :)

groovebuster

Oct 26, 2005, 01:01 AM

Yvan256

Oct 26, 2005, 01:18 AM

I am pretty sure being an asshole is also not one of the qualities of the top 25 leaders.

As I explained in my reply above, it all depends on your point of view. If someone's lazy and only wants to do the minimum necessary, anyone pushing him for a higher standard could be an asshole in his mind.

Someone's "good enough" could be to have higher standards than Microsoft. But for Steve, that's not high enough. Hence, to that someone, Steve is an asshole who's asking for too much for absolutely no reason.

But that's why OS X, iLife, iPod, etc. kicks ass. :cool:

EricNau

Oct 26, 2005, 01:34 AM

Sorry guys, but...

Only Americans can consider the CEO of a company as a leader in bad times. That's a joke!

People like Gates and Jobs don't do **** for the greater good. Their main motivation is to make money and to gain power. But it is way easier to look like a saint, when you have so much money that you don't know how to spend it anymore...

What exactly did people like Jobs and Gates do to make this world a better place?

Don't get me wrong... I love Mac OS X, but I hate the company!

Jobs is an egocentric poser. So that's what Americans want in a true leader? Tells a lot and also doesn't make you wonder anymore why Bush got elected a second time.

Sorry again, but this article really hit a nerve!

groovebuster
We don't consider them our leaders, if I understand everyone correctly, but they lead their companies very well, do they not?
And by the way, when you say ...
Jobs is an egocentric poser. So that's what Americans want in a true leader? Tells a lot and also doesn't make you wonder anymore why Bush got elected a second time.
Seems like that is what Americans want...Guess we're stupid

CHess

Oct 26, 2005, 02:34 AM

I'm not the biggest Gates fan myself, but I can see why he's included. He's one of the largest philanthropists in the world. The Gates foundation has provided some of the largest financial grants to various health organizations especially HIV/AIDS research.

w00master

Actually, I don't think Bill Gates delved into philanthropy until after his marriage. I think his wife has more to do with Bill Gate's philanthropy than he does. Maybe SHE should have made list of leaders :)

CHess

Oct 26, 2005, 02:45 AM

Only Americans can consider the CEO of a company as a leader in bad times. That's a joke!

Well, we DO live in a capitalist society, so there really can't be any surprise there. And when you look at our political "leadership", how much great leadership do American's have to choose from???

Jobs is an egocentric poser. So that's what Americans want in a true leader? Tells a lot and also doesn't make you wonder anymore why Bush got elected a second time.

American's can put up with a little egotism. And as far as those who elected Bush, I've found that among those I've me, they mostly aren't the same people as those that are "follow" jobs (i.e. Mac people). Just my own observation. I'd be interested to see the stats on this and was intrigued back when Kerry was pictured on the cover of Time magazine sitting in front of a PowerBook...

Staffroomer

Oct 26, 2005, 05:50 AM

I can understand this.. Jobs is a strange and determined leader. But a leader all the same..

Chaszmyr

Oct 26, 2005, 06:21 AM

You nuts? He only has pushed Apple into stratospheric numbers as far as sales go (and as far as Apple goes), and with it, he saved the Recording industry from their own destruction. Plus, he has Pixar, the ever-profitable and awesome picture studio that turns out great film after great film.

He did more than just that. I'm not saying Steve Jobs is necessarily the greatest guy who ever lived, I don't even know if he is necessarily even a good guy at all... I would need to know a lot more about his personal life to make any sort of claim to that effect, but he is one of the most important people in the world. He has been instrumental in helping to shape the present and future of human civilization.

sushi

Oct 26, 2005, 11:10 AM

Maybe SHE should have made list of leaders :)
Uh, I think she did. They are listed as sujch:

Founders, Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation

Sushi

radio893fm

Oct 26, 2005, 11:12 AM

I can't think of anyone better at leading than Steve. I'm not sure I understand why Bill is also included. He's really copying Steve as best he can with a bad vehicle in the first place. Google guys I agree are up there with Steve. But not at his level of innovation and charismatic influence over customers as well as his employees. :)

And of course you are kidding...

Do a bit of research on how Windows and Office have became the-facto standards for organizations...

From MS-DOS to Windows Vista, it's always been either monopolistic practices, illegal practices, stolen ideas (if not stolen code), bankrupting the competition, locking out competition.

Microsoft shouldn't have their huge pile of money, and so shouldn't Bill.

And you are kidding too... stolen ideas? What about apple? XEROX story anyone (ohh yes he stole it, he did not license anything)! Bankrupt small Apple retailers, Konfabulator... etc! Take a pill Yvan and stop being a fanboy and hater!

...it would be nice if he didn't get the $$ by stealing it.

Last time I checked you never were FORCED to buy Windows or any other MS product... people chose it among a lot of other OS/Software: linux, beos, next, macos, etc

Some people in this board needs to pass the hippie/hater attitude. Its time to grow!

Zigster

Oct 27, 2005, 12:50 AM

Bill has given away more money than Steve will ever earn...

but anyway, it does look like being a billionaire helps to be considered a "leader".

Renegate

Oct 27, 2005, 06:57 AM

WHY does Gates get to share in this honor??? :mad:

(fyi... i know why, i'm just mad that it happened)
Bill Gates is in there not for innovation but for shuffling money, this is about "businessmen".

Renegate

Oct 27, 2005, 07:01 AM

And of course you are kidding...

And you are kidding too... stolen ideas? What about apple? XEROX story anyone (ohh yes he stole it, he did not license anything)! Bankrupt small Apple retailers, Konfabulator... etc! Take a pill Yvan and stop being a fanboy and hater!

Last time I checked you never were FORCED to buy Windows or any other MS product... people chose it among a lot of other OS/Software: linux, beos, next, macos, etc

Some people in this board needs to pass the hippie/hater attitude. Its time to grow!

Steve Jobbs turns products mainstream by making them more userfriendly, the rest is just business. Microsoft has had enough investigations into its business practices to suggest that they are bullying everybody. Most PC's still come with Windows, and you have no real choice if you are just an uninformed consumer -- luckily thats changing!

Renegate

Oct 27, 2005, 07:03 AM

He did more than just that. I'm not saying Steve Jobs is necessarily the greatest guy who ever lived, I don't even know if he is necessarily even a good guy at all... I would need to know a lot more about his personal life to make any sort of claim to that effect, but he is one of the most important people in the world. He has been instrumental in helping to shape the present and future of human civilization.
Buy the book, even Icon is painting a picture of somebody who is great even if with a somewhat strange personality.