Generous Replacements for 5G iPods? [Archive]

MacRumors

Oct 27, 2005, 03:03 AM

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Appleinsider claims (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1344) that Apple has issued a message to its channel partners to replace any 5th Generation (iPod with Video) that exhibits "any type of hardware failure"... including those that would be classified as abuse... for a limited time.

According to the rumor site, Apple is attempting to preemptively avert any quality complaints for the new device. Apple has been under significant public criticism with screen-scratch complaints on the recent iPod nano. A class action suit (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2005/10/20051021163200.shtml) emerged last week surrounding the iPod nano screen-scratch issue.

Meanwhile, Appleinsider also reports (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1345) that Apple's iPod shuffle appears to be selling well despite the recent introductions of both the iPod nano and 5th generation iPod (with video).

hob

Oct 27, 2005, 03:05 AM

Time to buy me a hammer :D

I guess they're taking this one uber-seriously... brand image etc. etc.

emotion

Oct 27, 2005, 03:08 AM

edcrosay

Oct 27, 2005, 03:09 AM

Why aren't they offering this to Nano users? It would certainly kill the point of the class-action suit.

Sky Blue

Oct 27, 2005, 03:10 AM

the scratching issues

How is a scratching issue a hardware fault?

dontmatter

Oct 27, 2005, 03:12 AM

so does this mean apple's position guarentees a lot of flack and it's working hard to avoid it, or does this mean that apple's making less quality than they should and wants to cover it up? haven't seen a nano yet, so can't say.

emotion

Oct 27, 2005, 03:15 AM

How is a scratching issue a hardware fault?

exactly my point. that's what i assume they're talking about when they talk of "abuse".

balamw

Oct 27, 2005, 03:15 AM

Does anyone else's 5G "ping"?

Mine seems to make a slight pinging noise pretty consistently at the beginning and end of a sync. Sounds like the HD heads parking, but I'm wondering if I should be concerned. I've also heard it a couple of times when starting a video.

B

Ja Di ksw

Oct 27, 2005, 03:21 AM

iMeowbot

Oct 27, 2005, 03:35 AM

Time to buy me a hammer :D
I think we've discovered the secret plans of that guy who started the Web site that collects money to buy and destroy an iPod...

MXDT

Oct 27, 2005, 03:44 AM

This seems like a very preemptive move on apples part. Maybe they found a serious defect in the new video iPods and are bracing for the worst, before it gets ugly.

ahuman7341

Oct 27, 2005, 03:45 AM

My 5G is already scrached like mad. whe someone comes out with a good case i guess i will send it to apple care and buy a case. i dont know if i can part with it that long though.

ive heard of people getting their 4G ipods replaced because they were too scratched and no other problems.

nagromme

Oct 27, 2005, 04:09 AM

This will quell any potential cries of, "I put my iPod in my soft cotton pocket with a diamond ring, a horseshoe, a land mine, and a garden gnome, and it got scratched in just one day!" :)

This isn't an admission of a scratching problem (the nano AND 5G are made out of the SAME material as previous iPods--unless Apple's telling a really stupid lie). Rather it's Apple swallowing their pride and trying out a very smart marketing strategy. One that I think will work well even if almost nobody knows of this decision!

On the surface, Apple's just asking to be taken advantage of. And they will be sometimes, and it will cost them. But it's only for a short time, when the product is NEW. And THAT's what this is about: controlling the initial buzz about a new product. They're realizing that huge mindshare is a two-edged sword, and that even complaints without basis can can be blown out of proportion by the press. So they want to reduce the complaints--EVEN to the extent of paying for damage that's just plain abuse. Buy an iPod, slam it in your car door, get a new one? Maybe--and yet Apple's still smart to try this for a short time. This way they'll keep the early buzz positive, avoiding much of the bad press around the nano. Legitimate or not, it was there.

If there IS any problem that emerges (it can happen sometimes--especially with a new major version!) then this handles it quite painlessly for the buyer. Good customer support.

If there is NO real problem, but some buyers raise a stink over nothing (that happens too sometimes!), that too is covered. Any issue is reduced greatly before it ever becomes an issue for people to latch onto. Less for negative reviewers to seize onto. Less for the negative bandwagon to seize onto. And it takes ammo away from potential lawsuits too.

Meanwhile, they are selling these things as fast as they can make them anyway, so they can afford the experiment :)

And rumors of a sleeve being added to the nano? Sounds nice. Not "necessary" just because plastic scratches (of COURSE it does). But nice to have. A good move for Apple and for buyers. (And I like the 5G's pocketable soft sleeve much better than the old bulky rigid belt-case that wasn't much good for any other purpose besides clipping it to your waist.)

Vanilla

Oct 27, 2005, 04:56 AM

...the nano AND 5G are made out of the SAME material as previous iPods--unless Apple's telling a really stupid lie...

Yes, no doubt they are made of the same materials but you know there is always the possibility that there is a bad batch out there where for example the resin layer was too soft or too thin etc. on the new models.

If so, the person that insists their new iPod scratches far too easily and the person who retorts that its made of the same material as previous models which are fine can BOTH be right.

Vanilla

Tupring

Oct 27, 2005, 04:59 AM

I see shuffles everywhere at the high school I work at. Mini's too, and an occasional nano. It bothers me someimtes, in the past at this school, if you were seen walking down the halls and had the headphones on, they would take the device from you until the end of the day if you were lucky, end of the school year if you were not. Now kids come into the classrooms and it's a fight to get them to stop listening.
Boo hoo! I brought my Discman to school everyday. The hall is not class and it should be ok. Lunchrooms and maybe the Library too. Class however is understandable that it doesn't need to be used.

ghint

Oct 27, 2005, 05:18 AM

The nano and g5 ipod are far more resiliant to scratches and physical abuse than any other model or generation.

Check this out: http://arstechnica.com/reviews/hardware/nano.ars

johnnyjibbs

Oct 27, 2005, 05:21 AM

This is a good publicity move by Apple. It will help to change the image that Apple is getting greedy with the iPod and stop it looking too much like the big corporation (like IBM, Microsoft) it doesn't want to be. Of course, there will be some abuse. If you've got any cosmetic damage or you "accidentally" drop it, now's the chance to get a replacement. I wouldn't risk it though!

iPod shuffle is a different market. You don't get a fraction of the features, but it's a cheap iPod at the end of the day. The sales for this unit don't surprise me.

emotion

Oct 27, 2005, 05:25 AM

The nano and g5 ipod are far more resiliant to scratches and physical abuse than any other model or generation.

Check this out: http://arstechnica.com/reviews/hardware/nano.ars

You clearly don't own or know anyone who owns a Nano. They scratch very easily.

The material used is resilient to cracks and sever abuse though I'll give them that.

What I don't understand is: My SE phone isn't scratched up and it's lived (with my keys etc) in my pocket for 18 months. Why can't ipods be like that?

qubex

Oct 27, 2005, 05:25 AM

"Generous"?!

How does replacing a faulty or otherwise sub-par product count as "generous"?!

Rather than applauding because their new replacement policies are generous, we should be scolding them for being so inclement and narrow-minded in the past.

It may sound generous because they're (apparently) including some damage due to "misuse" or "abuse", but likely that is just a red herring. In the past, it has been all too easy for Apple and its distribution network to claim that various defects are due to abuse. If you think about it carefully, just about any fault can be blamed on the end-user.

Are these new terms "generous"? No. Are they more generous than the previous terms? Yes. But remember the previous terms got them sued on a semi-regular basis.

nagromme

Oct 27, 2005, 05:32 AM

Yes, no doubt they are made of the same materials but you know there is always the possibility that there is a bad batch out there where for example the resin layer was too soft or too thin etc. on the new models.

If so, the person that insists their new iPod scratches far too easily and the person who retorts that its made of the same material as previous models which are fine can BOTH be right.
Absolutely--a bad batch wouldn't surprised me. And since Apple doesn't directly manufacture the iPod, they might not be aware of the situation right away.

I tend to think there's a simpler way that makes them both right, though: differing standards, differing behaviors, and differing levels of AWARENESS of how you treat your iPod. One person might be careless with their iPod, THINK they were being careful, get some small scratches, look close enough to notice them, and be bothered by them. Another person with the SAME iPod might think they were being careful and be RIGHT--or, they might get the same scratches but if they're only noticeable up close at the right angle, might not care.

Two people can both say honestly that they have only ever put their iPod in a soft pocket. But maybe one has held it in his hand with his keys a few times, passed it around to friends with big metal rings, set it down on a sandy tabletop, etc., and not even be aware of all this.

And two people could look at the SAME micro-scratched iPod and one will say "it's scratchproof" while the other says "it's unreadable." Different standards.

emotion

Oct 27, 2005, 05:35 AM

And two people could look at the SAME micro-scratched iPod and one will say "it's scratchproof" while the other says "it's unreadable." Different standards.

nagromme, do you own a nano or 5g?

are you saying people are imagining the device is scratched?

nagromme

Oct 27, 2005, 05:39 AM

"Generous"?!

How does replacing a faulty or otherwise sub-par product count as "generous"?!

Rather than applauding because their new replacement policies are generous, we should be scolding them for being so inclement and narrow-minded in the past.
Actually, Apple has a HISTORY of going above and beyond the warranty--both in specific individual cases, and as a matter of larger policy when it's the right thing to do.

You call the new iPods "faulty" but there's no evidence for that being the trend at all.

Apple has ALWAYS replaced faulty iPods. THIS policy is to replace iPods that YOU broke. And that does indeed fit the term "generous."

Apple's hardware reliability is the highest in the computer industry, and their service and support are the best too. By not one but several large-scale surveys.

So if you think Apple tends to make faulty products and then treat people unfairly, I HIGHLY recommend you don't risk buying from another company :)

Of course ANY company is staffed by people who can make mistakes. Any hardware maker will have customers who were turned away unfairly for a warranty issue. But that is NOT the pattern with Apple. It's the exception by far.

nagromme, do you own a nano or 5g?

are you saying people are imagining the device is scratched?
You quoted me :) My example was an iPod that IS scratched--nothing imaginary there. One person will see the scratches as microscopic and hardly noticeable and throw around the term "scratchproof." Another will see the same scratches as a huge aggravation and fixate on them. Neither one is imagining anything, and I can sympathize with the frustration of the one who is bothered. It's never nice when something shiny and new gets an imperfection early on.

My post was on the subject of ways that BOTH viewpoints could be right.

(What I own is a 4g--made of the same material, that has been scratch-resistant and given me no cause for complaint. I have also seen half a dozen display-model nanos and 5gs, manhandled all day every day, and still looking good.)

ruffas

Oct 27, 2005, 05:46 AM

The nano and g5 ipod are far more resiliant to scratches and physical abuse than any other model or generation.

Check this out: http://arstechnica.com/reviews/hardware/nano.ars

The nano is the coolest looking device of any type in a long while, but it does scratch.. My first thought when holding mine was that it was like holding a piece of antique china! You know that feeling you get when someone hands you a freshly printed photograph?

These things are dainty and a little fragile, for some reason Apple have decided to make the Nano and the 5G differently. Great they are moving on and developing new products and styles, but this has been at a considerable cost I fear.

I will keep my nano and more than likely get a 5G in the New Year but I will be covering them with cases and skins (check out the Noreve leather cases (http://www.pleasecanihaveone.com/acatalog/Noreve_Tradition_for_iPod_Nano.html)).

And GHINT, when you actually see a Nano for yourself then comeback to the forum with something a little more constructive..

A bit of a newbie myself, but that post just annoyed me...

emotion

Oct 27, 2005, 06:13 AM

You quoted me :)

:)

My post was on the subject of ways that BOTH viewpoints could be right.

(What I own is a 4g--made of the same material, that has been scratch-resistant and given me no cause for complaint. I have also seen half a dozen display-model nanos and 5gs, manhandled all day every day, and still looking good.)

I see what you're getting at and I kind of agree. Interestingly I was about to buy a nano from the Uni shop at UCSD when I was over there on business (I'm from the UK). The two display models both were covered in scratches. Maybe a bad example but it was enough to make me think twice.

I dunno, I want Apple to have got this right but I'm beginning to thinkthey haven't. I really really want to buy a 5G (i've not bought an ipod yet...just powerbook and my previous pmac) but I'm thinking that I should wait and see iof these things are as bad as I've heard people say the nano is (including a close friend).

I guess we'll see.

tny

Oct 27, 2005, 06:46 AM

I've had mine for three days. I've barely used it. It's a black 60 GB. So far, no scratches that I can see, but what looks like one dead pixel (I've lived with one on my iBook for 4 years, I can live with one on my iPod), and the thing picks up finger prints and dust everywhere. The finger prints obviously are there on the old ones, too, one just didn't notice them as much because of the color and the different material (the face of the 3G at least IS different, not the same clear plastic as is on face of the 5G).

By comparison, it was months before there were any noticeable issues with my 3G (which I'm still using as my primary iPod until they come out with some dockable accessories), and that was a key scratch due to my own negligence.

My guess is that the clear facing material (which used to be limited to the LCD, but now covers the front of the iPod), the black color, and the fact that it is a video device (which makes the quality of the screen much more important), will lead to more noticeable scratches, just as the material, the black color, and the pocketability lead to more noticeable scratches on the Nano.

By the way, I think they should have rotated the iPod 90 degrees, giving them room for a larger LCD, and put in a smaller (nano-sized) click wheel on the right hand side (but made the video screen reversible and the fast-forward/rewind controls switchable, so one could put the click wheel on the left, though how they would have managed the play icon in that circumstance I don't know). Then again, I don't know how ergonomic that would be with the click wheel, though I think holding an iPod landscape would be more ergonomic for watching video.

Renegate

Oct 27, 2005, 06:47 AM

So, I was unsure whether to plump down the cash for a 5G ipod because of the scratching issues and now I'm 100% certain I'm gonna wait this one out and see if Apple address the problem properly.

I wonder how many other punters think like that given the messages Apple are giving out?
What can you have more than a replacement garanty? And then you know that if you take care of it, it won't scratch anyway. I always take care of my stuff as i hate scratches.

emotion

Oct 27, 2005, 06:49 AM

What can you have more than a replacement garanty? And then you know that if you take care of it, it won't scratch anyway. I always take care of my stuff as i hate scratches.

Well me too. I know, it's a ball ache getting stuff replaced though. We don't have that many true Apple stores in the UK so it's trickier to do this too.

Stella

Oct 27, 2005, 07:10 AM

I wonder if Apple know something we don't... or just they want to be seen in a good light?

I'm not surprised Shuffles are still stilling well.. you know, not everyone wants to pay $100s for a MP3 player... those Shuffles really are cheap.

ipacmm

Oct 27, 2005, 07:17 AM

I hope that Apple will do something about it. I don't know why they aren't talking about the Nano as well, but I wouldn't mind getting my video ipod fixed.

wattage

Oct 27, 2005, 07:26 AM

fixyourthinking

Oct 27, 2005, 07:40 AM

Why aren't they offering this to Nano users? It would certainly kill the point of the class-action suit.

They already did ... that's what "the press" and Apple haters aren't reporting. Or, if they are, they report it like this:

"It was just to cover a screen cracking issue"

No, Apple is replacing just about any Nano owner's NANO that has reasonable complaint about any issue. But the catch is, there wasn't really an issue, and those that don't buy a case for a $200 investment, or can't figure out that they can simply get some scratch remover and then polish this with a wax coating - are just idiots!

I must admit that this announcement is making me think twice about this 5G being my first iPod. I would hate to get one for christmas only to have newer ones released in late Jan or Feb; with larger 40/80 GB hard drives. Maybe there isn't something they know about these new pods though.?????

Yeah, I know what you mean ... I'd hate to buy the latest Harry Potter book knowing there's going to be another one next year ... and gasp might be the last ... geez JK Rowling isn't supporting us anymore - she must be in bed with Apple!
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

cwoloszynski

Oct 27, 2005, 08:22 AM

I have had my 5G iPod for a week now, and I have no scratches. Of course, I treat it reasonably (keep it in the pouch when I'm not using it, and waiting for a good case to come out). The back picks up finger prints pretty easily, but the screen remains pristine.

I am guessing that Apple is making sure that they don't get bad press on the iPod 5G. From what I have seen, this one is a big winner.

deanwaterman

Oct 27, 2005, 08:35 AM

I must admit that this announcement is making me think twice about this 5G being my first iPod. I would hate to get one for christmas only to have newer ones released in late Jan or Feb; with larger 40/80 GB hard drives. Maybe there isn't something they know about these new pods though.?????

I can't see a 40 and 80G iPod in the next few months... If they were going to do that they would have done it with the revision a couple weeks ago.

snowmoon

Oct 27, 2005, 08:39 AM

I would prefer if people did not turn this thread into the nano class action thread all over again! Once again people are projecting thier own irrational beliefs about what apple is doing against the prevailing fact and wisdom.

1) No evidence or history suggests that apple is doing this because of a "Faulty product".
2) This is in no way an admision of guilt by the company.
3) This has nothing to do with the class action suit. ( excpept maybe to head off another flawedmp3player.com ).

Companies regularly give additional benifit to the consumer on new product launch to prevent some squeaky wheel from creating negative spin and causing REAL harm to the company over a perceived weakness in the, or a small number of, product. Just until the time of irrational exuberance winds down and it becomes another run of the mill product again. So please can we stick to facts and theories that have some basis in reality and history?

~Shard~

Oct 27, 2005, 08:54 AM

Sounds like some proactive behavior on Apple's part, nothing wrong with that.

iDM

Oct 27, 2005, 09:12 AM

Generously replace does that mean because the Hardware sucks? WEll guess what i haven't been using my 5g because i'm stressed out over the scratches. I'm waiting on an invisibleshield meaning this thing is not seeing any usage. What happens down the line when i try to use this thing and the hardware fails but I'm out of Apple's Generous replacement period this is BS if its true.

notjustjay

Oct 27, 2005, 09:47 AM

eme jota ce

Oct 27, 2005, 09:48 AM

bigandy

Oct 27, 2005, 09:53 AM

nice. *goes off to find chainsaw*

By the way, I think they should have rotated the iPod 90 degrees, giving them room for a larger LCD, and put in a smaller (nano-sized) click wheel on the right hand side (but made the video screen reversible and the fast-forward/rewind controls switchable, so one could put the click wheel on the left, though how they would have managed the play icon in that circumstance I don't know). Then again, I don't know how ergonomic that would be with the click wheel, though I think holding an iPod landscape would be more ergonomic for watching video.

and in one swift movement, pissing every left hander on the planet off....

anyway, it's not so good with the two handed operation. that's where the ipod's always shined, easy, onehanded operation. (my girlfriend just said there should be no reason after the 'adult entertainment' companies realise that, that there won't be iPorn!)

snowmoon

Oct 27, 2005, 10:13 AM

Mechcozmo

Oct 27, 2005, 10:18 AM

Why aren't they offering this to Nano users? It would certainly kill the point of the class-action suit.

They ARE. If your Nano is scratching excessively then you can call AppleCare. Now, this isn't "drop it off a building" like replacement, but it is certainly a nice gesture.

Tommyg117

Oct 27, 2005, 10:18 AM

I have not been using my 5g because I'm worried about the scratches. I have synced it and played around with it (with the plastic still on) but have been using my 3g until the invisible shield gets here. What DOES happen when this runs out or if it comes out that apple is at fault with a scratchable screen? I havn't seen any yet, but if they are bad then that sucks because then i'll be stuck with a faulty piece of hardware with no generous replacement. Oh well, hopefully the invisible shield works as well as they say it does, then it won't matter!

snowmoon

Oct 27, 2005, 10:25 AM

LimeiBook86

Oct 27, 2005, 10:53 AM

I just got my 60gb White Video iPod, it's great, I love the thing but, I have one noticeable blue dead pixel on my iPod. I have noticed others but, they are very small and I don't notice them much. I only notice the pixel if I'm watching a widescreen video like Return of the Jedi, otherwise it's hard to notice.

I doubt this would be covered and it would probably take a while for Apple to give me a replacement etc...well that's if they replaced it. Also I'm in a similar problem, the case that Apple provided is nice but, I'd like a case with a way I can see the screen. Oh well, at least I'll have a lot of iPod accessories to put on my Christmas list :p

Lertie32

Oct 27, 2005, 11:09 AM

Is there a trend of problems with the video ipods - dead pixels on a large number of them? This is somewhat reassuring for buyers hesitant to purchase one, but at the same time it's somewhat concerning as if Apple knows there is a potential issue.
:confused:

I'm deliberately staying away from my Apple store so I'm not tempted to buy a shuffle, nano, and/or video iPod.
:p

Koodauw

Oct 27, 2005, 11:10 AM

But the catch is, there wasn't really an issue, and those that don't buy a case for a $200 investment, or can't figure out that they can simply get some scratch remover and then polish this with a wax coating - are just idiots!

No, that title is reserved for people who make uneducated statements and post them on internet forums.

The Nano is not an investment, it s freakin MP3 player. Its intent, is to deliver audio content while on the go, not a financial tool. The fact that it looks like it has been beat to hell after just a month and half simply from putting it in a pocket, with nothing else in it, is not acceptable, no matter what type of spin you want to put on it.

clayj

Oct 27, 2005, 11:50 AM

Actually, the folks at the Apple Store here in Charlotte have very generously (and perhaps it has something to do with this news) offered to allow me to exchange my iPod Gen5, which may have gotten scratched when I took it into the store last week, for a brand-new one. I'm taking mine in today to swap it out.

And the NEW one will be staying IN THE BOX until I get a case for it.

ksz

Oct 27, 2005, 11:56 AM

And the NEW one will be staying IN THE BOX until I get a case for it.
This is unfortunate. You should not have to treat it more delicately than a wilting flower.

clayj

Oct 27, 2005, 11:59 AM

This is unfortunate. You should not have to treat it more delicately than a wilting flower.I think I've been saying that myself for quite a long time now. ;)

JDOG_

Oct 27, 2005, 12:08 PM

I don't think it's the scratch issues that is prompting this from Apple. It seems to be part PR move and part of some bigger issue that has probably surfaced from various customer complaints. I've also seens about 10 seperate instances of pixel failure complaints floating around the web, and assuming it's not the same person posting them, this might be the first "dead pixel" issue I've ever seen with an iPod. Having owned three iPods in the course of history myself I've never dealt with dead pixels compared to some other LCD devices I've used which have had dead pixels from the start (Vaio laptop, 1st Gen Gameboy Advance SP, Nokia phone).

This should be interesting :rolleyes:

kirk26

Oct 27, 2005, 12:14 PM

I hope that Apple will do something about it. I don't know how to take care of my iPod like the rest of the forum and need a replacement. STAT!:rolleyes:

nagromme

Oct 27, 2005, 12:56 PM

I see what you're getting at and I kind of agree. Interestingly I was about to buy a nano from the Uni shop at UCSD when I was over there on business (I'm from the UK). The two display models both were covered in scratches. Maybe a bad example but it was enough to make me think twice.

I dunno, I want Apple to have got this right but I'm beginning to thinkthey haven't.
A bad batch is at least possible, but I really doubt the material on every new iPod is different when Apple says it's the same.

However, the negative hype that snowballed causes two things, even if the problem (meaning iPods that scratch more easily than others) is rare or nonexistent:

1. It makes people LOOK for scratches up close, and notice more scratches than they would have.

2. It makes people TRY to scratch models on display! The display models I saw were fine, but I wouldn't judge by any display model. Especially when people say the SCREEN especially was all scratched up on the one on display. You know that scratches concentrated right on the screen were intentional, not just random handling by shoppers--it's not like the screen is made of something different from the rest of the face.

My guess is that the clear facing material (which used to be limited to the LCD, but now covers the front of the iPod)

Actually, I'm pretty sure ALL full-size iPods have always had a clear casing that covers the entire front, NOT just the screen. The type of clear plastic may have changed over time (I doubt it--and we know the 4th and 5th gen/nano are the same), but the iPod has always been white-under-clear.

I believe the reason some people think that's a recent change is that the newest iPods (like the first very ones) have a hard corner around the front edges. That helps you SEE the clear shell that was always there. My 4th gen has rounded edges like your 3g, and it's not as easy to tell the shell is clear--but it is. Your iPod surface isn't made of white plastic with a clear screen, it's a whole clear shell--over top of white plus the screen. No matter which gen you have. (Black instead of white might show more scratches of course.)

What happens down the line when i try to use this thing and the hardware fails but I'm out of Apple's Generous replacement period this is BS if its true.
The warranty would always cover problems that are Apple's fault (if any such REAL issue should emerge). Now Apple is offering support BEYOND the warranty, covering abuse. That's nice of them, whether it lasts a week, a month, or a year. ANY time period is above and beyond what they have to do. Things are better for customers today than they were before this decision. So what's the problem?

It's like if Apple gave away a free charger to iPod buyers this month. Special promo. Does that make it BS if the promo EVER ends?

Remember, this isn't something Apple is promising or advertising--this is inside info that has been intercepted. Apple's decisions like this ARE subject to change. There's nothing surprising about that.

What DOES happen when this runs out or if it comes out that apple is at fault with a scratchable screen? I havn't seen any yet, but if they are bad then that sucks because then i'll be stuck with a faulty piece of hardware with no generous replacement.
Something makes me think this rumor will spiral into strange and surreal new places for a long time :p

IF "it comes out that Apple is at fault" then your warranty is likely to apply, or a new decision is likely to come from Apple to rectify the situation. No such fault has emerged YET (and there may BE none) so how you can you criticize Apple's response to it?

You don't NEED a "generous" replacement for a faulty device. Only if you plan to abuse your iPod. The included case is a more convenient solution for that :)

Is there a trend of problems with the video ipods - dead pixels on a large number of them?
If you're thinking that because two people have posted, remember this: who would BOTHER to post and say "I have no dead pixels"? Very few would. But if you DO have them, it's human nature to complain. Thus, ANY online forum will make the product in question seem more trouble-prone than it really is. 1% of people with a problem will post ten times as much as 99% of people who have nothing to complain about. Nothing wrong with that--it's human nature, and sharing problems/solutions is actually very useful. (And bad pixels on LCDs are an occasional fact of life--otherwise they'd be insanely expensive. 5g iPods of course have many MORE pixels than any previous iPod.)

tny

Oct 27, 2005, 01:14 PM

and in one swift movement, pissing every left hander on the planet off....

anyway, it's not so good with the two handed operation. that's where the ipod's always shined, easy, onehanded operation.

I'm left handed. As you can see, I was assuming, for those lefties who can't hold something in their right hand (most of us can; too much living in a right-handed world) that you would want to be able to reverse the screen and the click wheel somehow. And I'm still talking about one handed operation, try it.

LimeiBook86

Oct 27, 2005, 01:16 PM

Bad pixels on LCDs are an occasional fact of life--otherwise they'd be insanely expensive. 5g iPods of course have many MORE pixels than any previous iPod.)
Yeah and lucky me I have a few dead pixels, I'd go to the Apple store but, then I'll have a chance to get more dead pixels, and maybe even in a worse place. Oh well, early adopter problems *sigh* :p :rolleyes:

autrefois

Oct 27, 2005, 01:30 PM

I have also seen half a dozen display-model nanos and 5gs, manhandled all day every day, and still looking good.)

If you disagree there is a problem with scratches, fine. But it was already pointed out to you in the class action lawsuit thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=156416&page=11) that floor models are routinely switched if they become worse for wear.

Originally Posted by nagromme
I just looked at ALL the nanos (And 5G iPods) at my local Apple Store and one other store. The floor models that get manhandled and dropped face down on the counter all day every day.

Sigh. I reply to that the same way I did earlier in this thread and the same way other posters have as well-- if you have never worked sales retail this is what happens w/ floor displays:

Items get broken/scratched up/ whatever-- they get marked as 'defected,' the manager signs it off, and it disappears and a new one in its spot instead.

You can not necessarily get an honest gauge for a product based solely on the floor models.

Of course you're not going to keep some beat-up looking thing on display, who would buy it otherwise? So whether or not the display models look fine doesn't prove one way or the other whether there is a scratching issue.

mongoos150

Oct 27, 2005, 01:54 PM

Actually, Apple has a HISTORY of going above and beyond the warranty--both in specific individual cases, and as a matter of larger policy when it's the right thing to do.

You call the new iPods "faulty" but there's no evidence for that being the trend at all.

Apple has ALWAYS replaced faulty iPods. THIS policy is to replace iPods that YOU broke. And that does indeed fit the term "generous."

Apple's hardware reliability is the highest in the computer industry, and their service and support are the best too. By not one but several large-scale surveys.

So if you think Apple tends to make faulty products and then treat people unfairly, I HIGHLY recommend you don't risk buying from another company :)

Of course ANY company is staffed by people who can make mistakes. Any hardware maker will have customers who were turned away unfairly for a warranty issue. But that is NOT the pattern with Apple. It's the exception by far.

Word.

nagromme

Oct 27, 2005, 02:03 PM

Yeah and lucky me I have a few dead pixels, I'd go to the Apple store but, then I'll have a chance to get more dead pixels, and maybe even in a worse place.
I'd go anyway, because anything with an LCD has some kind of policy for replacement due to bad pixels. If you have more than one, you may be due an automatic replacement and never know it! Doesn't hurt to ask. (And if your screen does qualify for replacement, you can always open that in the store just be extra sure it's not worse.)

So whether or not the display models look fine doesn't prove one way or the other whether there is a scratching issue.
No it doesn't, I agree. But it DOES suggest that the worst case is unlikely: that you can't just give an iPod a terrible, blatant scratch with a single soft touch of a finger, like some have suggested. If that were the case, they'd have to be replacing the display models on the hour.

LimeiBook86

Oct 27, 2005, 02:20 PM

I'd go anyway, because anything with an LCD has some kind of policy for replacement due to bad pixels. If you have more than one, you may be due an automatic replacement and never know it! Doesn't hurt to ask. (And if your screen does qualify for replacement, you can always open that in the store just be extra sure it's not worse.)

Yeah I guess it doesn't hurt to find out, in order to see if there are any dead pixels I'd have to have a black video or a black image to make sure, otherwise it's very hard to see the dead pixels on a while background. I'll probably head to the Apple store when I get a chance and see what they can do.

EDIT: I just got a nice PM from otoloui, it read:

I had the same issue with my screen and I took it back to the store. They told me that it wasn't actually a dead pixel but a defect in the plastic covering the screen. I'm wondering if this is what all the huss is about.

He may be right, I'll go to the Apple store soon and find out what's going on.

-Thanks :D

DaftUnion

Oct 27, 2005, 03:00 PM

People are starting to get ridiculous (as if they weren't before:) ) but seriously, people seem to be more concerned about keeping their iPod's perfect...and care less about their car getting slight scratches which cost magnitudes more than an iPod. Just to put things in perspective. Use a case, simple. Or if your paranoid about it getting scratched IN a case...then don't use it:p I promise it'll stay perfect then.

MmmPancakes

Oct 27, 2005, 03:06 PM

// ** hugs 4th gen color iPod a little tighter after reading this thread **

snowmoon

Oct 27, 2005, 03:08 PM

oskar

Oct 27, 2005, 03:29 PM

I don't think this means the quality of the 5G iPod is inferior to any previous iPods. Apple's probably just trying to avoid those dumb lawsuits and people who want to screw them. They let it happen with the nano. But not with whats sure to become the holiday's best seller. ;)
This news won't affect my already-made decision on ordering a black 5G iPod this week. :D

fudgebrown

Oct 27, 2005, 03:39 PM

so what's the quickest and easiest way to get a replacement (I simply want to trade my white for the black, but already opened the box)...

Stridder44

Oct 27, 2005, 03:46 PM

See, here's a good example of the "in the eye of the beholder" point that was just mentioned. I saw a nano up close for probably the second time ever, at a store display yesterday. It looked beautiful in my eyes. Worried about the scratching everyone keeps talking about, I looked very closely. When I brought it right up to my eye, and in the correct angle, I saw tiny scratches.

And I said "THIS is what everyone is complaining about???"

My 3G iPod scratched about that badly, especially on the metal back. I didn't care then, I won't care now. It's no worse than any other product I'd buy. My cell phone is in worse shape. The bottom of my Apple Pro Keyboard is scratched up far worse than that.

Unless there's something I'm missing, this to me is a non-issue.

Thank you! All you @#!$% complaining about scratches and junk.....the guy who is suing Apple should be put up against a wall and shot. Its only $99!!! A car, which is many thousands of dollars, gets scratches too! So what? Lets all sue the car companies! Maybe you should buy a damn protector for your iPod. I bought the often seen as "useless" iPod Socks, and they are kind of just for looks but you know what!? My 40Gb iPod doesnt have a single scratch because of them (not that it probably would anyway).

Sorry, but this topic is so weak sauce. It reminds me of the days when some people used to argue over how "10.3.9 could NEVER possibly go to 10.3.10...etc."

nagromme

Oct 27, 2005, 03:49 PM

people seem to be more concerned about keeping their iPod's perfect...and care less about their car getting slight scratches
You made me think of a good test: I dragged my iPod nano hard across the side of my car, from front to back. Guess what? They BOTH scratched! :( :eek:

He may be right, I'll go to the Apple store soon and find out what's going on.
You can probably test that in the same way you can test a laptop LCD for bad-pixel vs. surface-defect: tilt the iPod back and forth and see if the defect shifts at all. Easiest to tell if there's some pattern or image on the screen, maybe a dark grid or something.

splintah

Oct 27, 2005, 05:09 PM

apple

make all your ipods with either ipod shuffle or ipod mini material

and deliver them with a removeable screen protector

and you will probably sell a lot more of them
and have happier users

Ja Di ksw

Oct 27, 2005, 06:02 PM

Boo hoo! I brought my Discman to school everyday. The hall is not class and it should be ok. Lunchrooms and maybe the Library too. Class however is understandable that it doesn't need to be used.

It's sad when a kid can't go for four minutes (passing time) without needing to have something entertain them.

That being said, they ARE being used in class. I'd say about 15% of students (try to) listen to music during the class.

jjd

Oct 27, 2005, 06:06 PM

They already did ... that's what "the press" and Apple haters aren't reporting. Or, if they are, they report it like this:

"It was just to cover a screen cracking issue"

No, Apple is replacing just about any Nano owner's NANO that has reasonable complaint about any issue. But the catch is, there wasn't really an issue, and those that don't buy a case for a $200 investment, or can't figure out that they can simply get some scratch remover and then polish this with a wax coating - are just idiots!

If you bought a Nano when they were first released, there were no cases available. That did not make you an "idiot". The idiocy here is that Apple was too cheap to include a $2 case to accompany their beautiful but absurdly scratch-prone device. They told people to buy a 3rd party case when there were no 3rd party cases. Whereas, they included a case with the 5G.

I cannot believe how the Apple sycophants will justify ANYTHING Apple does. Not even Apple is as one-eyed about this stuff! Apple is not perfect. Apple acknolwedges that. Why can't you guys?

susannahyork

Oct 27, 2005, 06:46 PM

I wonder if this return policy is a 'do over' for people who messed up their ipods the first time, or if apple actually changed the formula of the surface so that the scratching problem isn't as severe the second time around....

also, I have a psp, which seems to have a similar coating as the ipods do. It smudges easily, but doesn't seem to scratch as much as the nanos... Does anyone know what sony uses to protect the psp?

susannahyork

Oct 27, 2005, 06:54 PM

It's sad when a kid can't go for four minutes (passing time) without needing to have something entertain them.

That being said, they ARE being used in class. I'd say about 15% of students (try to) listen to music during the class.

I think there can be a difference between music and needing "something to entertain them". Music can be an art, which adds to ones quality of life... though I'm not sure middle school kids would understand this.

nagromme

Oct 27, 2005, 06:58 PM

I cannot believe how the Apple sycophants will justify ANYTHING Apple does. Not even Apple is as one-eyed about this stuff! Apple is not perfect. Apple acknolwedges that. Why can't you guys?
Just wondering who gets to justify all the MILLIONS of other devices that are able to be scratched and shipped without cases ;)

The nano would be better with a case than without, but then again, Apple has shipped that same plastic without a case in the past. Some people bought cases for it, some didn't, and it wasn't a huge issue. Now, with the same plastic (unless Apple's lying or they received a bad batch) it IS an issue.

So is something truly different this time? Or is it "the power of Internet buzz" creating a big "new" problem from a small problem that existed for years: the fact the plastic can be scratched.

Some are claiming to know which. I don't--but I do see evidence suggesting the latter. My second guess would be a bad batch. As for Apple intentionally using a different material just to screw users, and then lying about it... I rate the chances of that near zero.

Now, who here has been suggesting that Apple is perfect? I didn't catch that from anyone :)

clayj

Oct 27, 2005, 07:06 PM

Just wondering who gets to justify all the MILLIONS of other devices that are able to be scratched and shipped without cases ;)It would help if Apple didn't seem to be using cheaper materials to drive down their costs and simultaneously make iPods more "disposable".

The nano would be better with a case than without, but then again, Apple has shipped that same plastic without a case in the past. Some people bought cases for it, some didn't, and it wasn't a huge issue. Now, with the same plastic (unless Apple's lying or they received a bad batch) it IS an issue.Something has changed. Perhaps it's the same polycarbonate, but the nano is DEFINITELY more scratchable than my 4G iPod was. Cases were NOT available on Day One for the nano... it's easy to say "buy a case", but what do you do when there are NO cases available?

So is something truly different this time? Or is it "the power of Internet buzz" creating a big "new" problem from a small problem that existed for years: the fact the plastic can be scratched.I truly think it's more easily scratched now than it used to be.

The solution, I think, is obvious: Concentrate on making iPods that are more durable, even if it means they're more expensive. (Watch-face crystal!) And make sure cases are available the SAME DAY as the iPod is.

Yoyodyne

Oct 27, 2005, 07:47 PM

Originally Posted by Stridder44
Thank you! All you @#!$% complaining about scratches and junk.....the guy who is suing Apple should be put up against a wall and shot. Its only $99!!! A car, which is many thousands of dollars, gets scratches too! So what? Lets all sue the car companies! Maybe you should buy a damn protector for your iPod.

If one more person makes an idiotic analogy about a car and an iPod I’m gonna scream. You cannot compare two objects that have completely different functions. The issue with a video capable iPod scratching is that you will be staring at the screen in order to use it. The scratches will then affect the function. You do not stare into the finish of a car to use it. Scratches on a screen are not aesthetic issues, but functional.

I agree with the case issue, but only people in the in-crowd know that they must buy a case at the purchase of an iPod. I would never buy an iPod if it didn’t have a case already in distribution. That is pathetic.

~Shard~

Oct 27, 2005, 10:39 PM

If one more person makes an idiotic analogy about a car and an iPod I’m gonna scream. You cannot compare two objects that have completely different functions.

Can someone at least compare them if they're talking about devices which have wheels, click or otherwise? :p :D

pixelize

Oct 27, 2005, 11:40 PM

I got my 5th Gen (30gig White) on Tuesday, and last night I noticed an issue... The battery seemed to wear out very quickly. So, last night I left it plugged in for 8 hours, and it STILL said the battery was drained. Did all the trouble shooting I could think of, and when none of that worked called Apple to see what they could do for me.

They were really nice about it, and I'm getting a new one from them. I guess in a couple of days a box will arrive for me to put it in and send it back to them... then in a few more days the new one will arrive.

Kind of sucks that I won't have an iPod at all for awhile (I sold my 3rd Gen already)... I use it for about 8 hours a day between walking, work and the gym.

To note, I've only heard a couple of people on other boards say that their battery won't hold a charge (I didn't notice any in this thread)... and in the couple of days I've had my iPod I've kept it in the soft case they send with it and treated it only slightly more carefully than I would if it had a silicone case or something... and so far, no scratches.

macguymike

Oct 28, 2005, 02:17 AM

ruffas

Oct 28, 2005, 04:44 AM

this amazes me..

Apple release iPods and each one has some form of problem, battery life, scratches, dead pixels etc the world complains !
We hear rumours that Apple are aware of problems and owners panic and wonder how they can swap thier potentially faulty iPod for a new one.
iPod is still one of the most limited players on the market (no radio, direct recording, WMA (it matters to a lot of people) ).
Millions of people have no idea what an iPod is or what to do with it once they have it..
People still buy the bloody things in thier millions.

Makes no sense...

I won't be buying a 5G for a while (if at all).. There are far more flexible video playing devices on the market.. 'Happy' with my Nano for now...

Chappers

Oct 28, 2005, 04:56 AM

Millions of people have no idea what an iPod is or what to do with it once they have it..

So millions of people are walking around with iPods but not listening to them.

Aliquis

Oct 28, 2005, 04:58 AM

Well, is anyone also a little disgruntled or just a little dissappointed that the 5Gs don't come with power adaptors?

nagromme

Oct 28, 2005, 08:53 AM

It would help if Apple didn't seem to be using cheaper materials to drive down their costs and simultaneously make iPods more "disposable".

Something has changed. Perhaps it's the same polycarbonate, but the nano is DEFINITELY more scratchable than my 4G iPod was. Cases were NOT available on Day One for the nano... it's easy to say "buy a case", but what do you do when there are NO cases available?

I truly think it's more easily scratched now than it used to be.

The solution, I think, is obvious: Concentrate on making iPods that are more durable, even if it means they're more expensive. (Watch-face crystal!) And make sure cases are available the SAME DAY as the iPod is.
A case is a good suggestion (and a few were available almost immediately), but it's hardly the only solution. Just don't touch hard/sharp things to your iPod. I went caseless for a couple weeks with my iPod and I simply kept in a pocket by itself instead of mixed with other objects. No scratches. OR accept scratches--many portable device owners do. Offering cases right alongside the device IS better, but calling it a necessity is very subjective.

Improvement is always good, though, and if all this stink makes my next iPod even stronger, that's no bad thing!

Now, if Apple is covering something up here--if it's the "same" surface material in some technical sense, but actually a different TYPE of that material--or some irrelevant underlying material is the same while the actual SURFACE material is different.... or some other such deception... then that makes Apple's statements essentially lies, and I'll be the first to call Apple on it. I'd even support a lawsuit if for no other reason than to discourage such lies in future.

I hope Apple is not lying here--it would be a stupid mistake that didn't mesh with their other recent moves. All they'd have to do is say "we changed the plastic for various reasons. Some find that it scratches more easily, and that may affect your decision to use a case." They didn't have to say the plastic was the same as the previous generation if that was pure deception. I hope it's not.

And the "bad batch" possibility remains, as does the "much ado about nothing" theory. I figure we'll know for sure when we see what happens over the next months. If Apple discovers a bad batch, we'll hear of it.

Well, is anyone also a little disgruntled or just a little dissappointed that the 5Gs don't come with power adaptors?
I like that my Photo came with the power adapter--but since my Mac is Folding@Home 24/7, charging is no problem :) I've rarely used the adapter. It's nice connected to a dock which is permanently connected to my stereo... but once I started using a case I stopped using the dock. So making those things optional is OK with me. From my perspective, if more than half of them don't get used anyway--which is my guess--then it's a waste of resources to make them standard.

MacTruck

Oct 28, 2005, 09:57 AM

nagromme

Oct 28, 2005, 10:02 AM

Consumer Reports--although they give the new iPods great reviews--says that the nano AND the 5g are both made of different material (contrary to Apple's statement) from previous iPods. Material that can "easily" be scratched by a mere fingernail (as some posters here have said before), unlike other iPods.

I don't consider it likely that Apple would tell a really stupid, easily-disproved lie about this. But I'd say the same of Consumer Reports, whatever their many flaws (believe me, I know) may be. I'd be amazed if they made a statement like that without trying the same tests on an older iPod in a controlled manner.

Assuming CR is right, a simple "bad batch" wouldn't likely explain a problem in common with BOTH the nano and 5g. That's one heck of a big batch.

It's also hard to make this fit with posters who have said you CANNOT scratch the nanos with a fingernail. And those who own both the new and the old and say there IS no difference. (Is there a small "good batch"? :p )

http://www.consumerreports.org/main/detailv4.jsp?CONTENT%3C%3Ecnt_id=802095&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=162691

I have to ask--do these fingernail scratches rub off? (Test with a NON-abrasive cloth, please :p ) Because there's a difference between scratch damage and "writing like a crayon."

I keep thinking my AlBook has been scratched... but the marks rub off easily. Exactly what is happening when people say iPods are "easily scratched by fingernails?" Is it really plastic that's SOFTER than a fingernail, so the fingernail digs up the surface slightly? Or is the fingernail leaving a mark that sits ABOVE the surface (not a true scratch, and probably removable)? Really, either one sounds weird to me. And a screen that can truly, "easily," be permanently damaged by a fingernail could easily be harmed by many cases as well. (Protective film may be the best bet.)

In any case, whether there's a real problem or not, I can see this affecting sales some. There's certainly enough negative buzz to make me wonder, if I were shopping for a player now. I'd prefer to "wait and see" and be certain one way or the other.

Then again, Apple seems to be unable to meet demand anyway. This may NOT hurt sales after all.

On a positive note: Consumer Reports' conclusion is strongly in favor of the new iPods:

"only those who need a player with a radio or voice recorder need turn to other brands"

MacTruck

Oct 28, 2005, 10:03 AM

Something has changed. Perhaps it's the same polycarbonate, but the nano is DEFINITELY more scratchable than my 4G iPod was. Cases were NOT available on Day One for the nano... it's easy to say "buy a case", but what do you do when there are NO cases available?

This is a fact. I have a 4G 60gb and a 5G 60gb right here in front of me and i can tell you the 5G is made of softer plastic on the front. They are not the same material despite what is being said. Way to go apple for making the new ipod even MORE scratch prone.

qevlhma

Oct 28, 2005, 12:26 PM

I actually do not normally post, but I think this is important.

I like everyone else thought Apple was telling the truth.

I never wanted a nano, but I did want a 5g.

I went out yesterday and bought a 60 GB 5g video enabled ipod.

The actual video is great, the form factor is wonderful.

I kept it in the provided case and I was very VERY careful with it.

Just putting it in and out of the provided case casused MANY scratches on the screen. This is obviously a lot harder to ignore than on a music only player.. as I am trying to watch the thing.

I took it back and swapped it for a new one and bought screen protectors.

I went home and applied them.. setting the ipod on a really lush towl and.. i honestly felt like I was doing surgery.

Here is where it gets bad.

1) the current screen protectors distort the video. (obviously nobody noticed this when it was non vid.. but the protectors that glue on degraded the video quality to the point where I could not deal.

2) By the time I finished the application I noticed that the body of the ipod was scratched TERRIBLY again..

I was being SUPER careful.

My 3g ipod that I have used for 2 years had less scratching than one I had for 1 hour.

This is not only a real problem.. but I just wanted to say that.. I was one of the people calling BS on all of this..

There is without a doubt a real problem.. I hope apple can fix it soon.. I want my 5g back. (I took it for a full refund.)

This is not about a case.. this is not about a protector.. you basically really can just breathe on it and it scrathes and looks like crap.

:(

Quark

Oct 28, 2005, 12:50 PM

.
.
.
I kept it in the provided case and I was very VERY careful with it.

Just putting it in and out of the provided case casused MANY scratches on the screen. This is obviously a lot harder to ignore than on a music only player.. as I am trying to watch the thing.
.
.
.
I went home and applied them.. setting the ipod on a really lush towl and.. i honestly felt like I was doing surgery.
.
.
.
I was being SUPER careful.

My 3g ipod that I have used for 2 years had less scratching than one I had for 1 hour.

This is not only a real problem.. but I just wanted to say that.. I was one of the people calling BS on all of this..

There is without a doubt a real problem.. I hope apple can fix it soon.. I want my 5g back. (I took it for a full refund.)

This is not about a case.. this is not about a protector.. you basically really can just breathe on it and it scrathes and looks like crap.

:(

I am having the EXACT same problem and was as careful as you were. I am also having problems with the OS on the 5G ipod. It will lock up (had to reboot several times), it will just stop playing, it will play part of a song and for no reason jump to another song.

I had custom ordered the 60GB 5G iPod from Apple with the engraving. I plan on returning it to a physical Apple store tomorrow and seeing if I can get it replaced and hopefully it won't take long. I think I will lose the engraving though.

Take care,
Quark

qevlhma

Oct 28, 2005, 01:06 PM

I just wanted to drive the point home that until someone owns one of these and sees first hand.. they really should not assume people are just idiots and causing the damage.

Honestly until I saw it myself.. I thought that.. and I was rather unfair to people.

This is a major problem.. far more so on the 5g since you watch video on it... I could ignore a scratched screen on the nano, as I mostly just would be listening.

:(

I am going to give apple a call to complain.. everyone else should do the same.. between this and the nano law suit.. I would hope the 6G version is not this terrible.

nagromme

Oct 28, 2005, 02:31 PM

I hope apple can fix it soon..
If Apple's lying on this--which after professional testing by CR seems like a good possibility--then I think they probably WILL fix it without waiting for the next revision:

* They'll have been caught lying in a blatant way, and will have every incentive to make themselves look good after being caught.

* They'll have the ABILITY to fix it--just choose a different plastic--like the one they used before.

* They can AFFORD to fix it. They're rolling in cash, an the iPod is a profitable line worth spending cash to fix.

* They have incentive to fix it soon: holiday shopping is coming. (But I realize there could be changes to the assembly process needed, which could take time.)

And if Apple is lying, it would be interesting to know what made them try it. It's SO easy to test and prove whether plastic is the same or not. It was a lie (if CR is right) guaranteed to be caught.

The sheer stupidity of that is the major doubt I still have. Apple makes mistakes, but they're seldom THAT stupid.

deanwaterman

Oct 28, 2005, 03:13 PM

Seriously folks, in this day and age of technology why can't apple make an ipod that doesn't scratch? It quit rediculous that upon removing my 5G ipod from its brand new packaging that I have to apply screen protectors on the front and back to keep it looking normal. Heck I did that and still scratched the damn screen just from applying the covers. Then there was a tiny tiny piece of lint under the protector so I pulled it off to apply another one and that lint scratched the screen too.

No its not acceptable and apple should replace them. They need to just make an ipod that is not scratch prone. Oh wait they did, its called and ipod mini. Why can't they go back to those materials?

I am with you... why not something like the iPod mini? I had a 3G & 4G ipod and always hated the scratches and fingerprints on the back chrome. The iPod mini was the best solution for durability and looks. I might be wrong here, but I think the ipod would look good in aluminum. You also can get different colors which many people appreciate. I myself would take a black iPod if it was black brushed aluminum.

Just a wish that will never happen.

MacTruck

Oct 28, 2005, 06:00 PM

Just called the apples store about getting mine replaced or refunded. The guy told me there was no such policy, I pushed, he gave me to the manager which was very polite and said she would take it back. She actually talked me out of a replacement because she said the new one would get just as scratched up. She did state though that they are made out of the same plastic as all the ipods but I didn't argue since she already agreed to return it.

So I am returning the nano but may hold onto the 60gb video. I love it too much and I already put protective coating on it so it should stay ok. Got a piece of dirt under the coating though, already took it off to replace the coating after a piece of lint got under there. What a pain in the butt.

camomac

Oct 28, 2005, 06:12 PM

Well, is anyone also a little disgruntled or just a little dissappointed that the 5Gs don't come with power adaptors?

yep. and after reading this thread, and another one on this board,
i will wait until this scratching thing seems to get worked out.

** i too hug my 4G **

5G = No Firewire Also. that too is disappointing!

MontyZ

Oct 28, 2005, 10:56 PM

ksz

Oct 28, 2005, 11:25 PM

My 3g ipod that I have used for 2 years had less scratching than one I had for 1 hour.

This is not only a real problem.. but I just wanted to say that.. I was one of the people calling BS on all of this..

There is without a doubt a real problem.. I hope apple can fix it soon.. I want my 5g back. (I took it for a full refund.)

This is not about a case.. this is not about a protector.. you basically really can just breathe on it and it scrathes and looks like crap.

:(
This is exactly my point about the nano (and perhaps the new iPod video) exhibiting a disproportionately high rate of aesthetic degradation, and that is a real problem. People can bury their heads in the sand, but the problem won't go away.

My nano was covered in scratches after 2 days of normal use. Here, once again, are some pictures.

susannahyork

Oct 29, 2005, 01:23 AM

ksz

Oct 29, 2005, 01:35 AM

wow, that really looks like ****.
Wanna buy it from me?

(You see, it has virtually no resale value either.)

~Shard~

Oct 29, 2005, 01:38 AM

Wanna buy it from me?

(You see, it has virtually no resale value either.)

Yeah, that's definitely something to consider - whether it still functions properly or not is one thing, but not being able to resell it is another thing.

ksz

Oct 29, 2005, 02:22 AM

Yeah, that's definitely something to consider - whether it still functions properly or not is one thing, but not being able to resell it is another thing.
Because resale value is highly dependent on both function and aesthetic condition.

macguymike

Oct 29, 2005, 03:36 AM

My nano was covered in scratches after 2 days of normal use. Here, once again, are some pictures.

What sort of situations did you subject your nano to, exactly, to have it end up looking like that?

I've seen display nanos at Best Buy that are handled by all sorts of different people daily that looked better than that.

ksz

Oct 29, 2005, 05:02 AM

What sort of situations did you subject your nano to, exactly, to have it end up looking like that?

I've seen display nanos at Best Buy that are handled by all sorts of different people daily that looked better than that.
I've explained this in the Nano Class Action Lawsuit thread, somewhere in the last 3-4 pages. "Normal Use".

~Shard~

Oct 29, 2005, 10:58 AM

I've explained this in the Nano Class Action Lawsuit thread, somewhere in the last 3-4 pages. "Normal Use".

Yeah, the whole thing was discussed to death (no offense ksz!) in this thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=156416), macguymike, so there's no need to start rehashing things here. It was an excellent debate (I thought so at least) but there no need for it to spill into other threads.

amateurmacfreak

Oct 29, 2005, 11:57 AM

exactly my point. that's what i assume they're talking about when they talk of "abuse".

but i'd think the abuse wouldn't count for something as little of an issue as scratches... i'd think it would have more to do w/ dropping them or whatever... i have the 5G 30GB in black, and i've loved it for the 8 days i've had it.. it has scratches, but it hasn't been scratched to the point where it bothers me much at all... i don't think people need to get mad at apple for the scratches, that's your own problem, protect it if you don't want scratches.

amateurmacfreak

Oct 29, 2005, 12:09 PM

Absolutely--a bad batch wouldn't surprised me. And since Apple doesn't directly manufacture the iPod, they might not be aware of the situation right away.

I tend to think there's a simpler way that makes them both right, though: differing standards, differing behaviors, and differing levels of AWARENESS of how you treat your iPod. One person might be careless with their iPod, THINK they were being careful, get some small scratches, look close enough to notice them, and be bothered by them. Another person with the SAME iPod might think they were being careful and be RIGHT--or, they might get the same scratches but if they're only noticeable up close at the right angle, might not care.

Two people can both say honestly that they have only ever put their iPod in a soft pocket. But maybe one has held it in his hand with his keys a few times, passed it around to friends with big metal rings, set it down on a sandy tabletop, etc., and not even be aware of all this.

And two people could look at the SAME micro-scratched iPod and one will say "it's scratchproof" while the other says "it's unreadable." Different standards.

I agree. I'm personally not bothered by small scratches... and i'm fairly careful with my iPod, at least by my standards. My 5G hasn't scratched much at all in 8days... i'm totally pleased. My friend on the other hand has a nano, and is so mad about all the scratches.

amateurmacfreak

Oct 29, 2005, 12:15 PM

yep. and after reading this thread, and another one on this board,
i will wait until this scratching thing seems to get worked out.

** i too hug my 4G **

5G = No Firewire Also. that too is disappointing!

What is Apple's reason for stopping the Firewire?... I personally don't see it as disappointing, but it seems a fair amount of people do. And the power adapter thing, it doesn't bother me, because you can always charge on a computer, a dock, or an old power adapter (right?). Let me check... yeah, you can. And it's more than worth no power adapter for it to come in such a cute little box.
:D

amateurmacfreak

Oct 29, 2005, 12:20 PM

A bad batch is at least possible, but I really doubt the material on every new iPod is different when Apple says it's the same.

However, the negative hype that snowballed causes two things, even if the problem (meaning iPods that scratch more easily than others) is rare or nonexistent:

1. It makes people LOOK for scratches up close, and notice more scratches than they would have.

2. It makes people TRY to scratch models on display! The display models I saw were fine, but I wouldn't judge by any display model. Especially when people say the SCREEN especially was all scratched up on the one on display. You know that scratches concentrated right on the screen were intentional, not just random handling by shoppers--it's not like the screen is made of something different from the rest of the face.

Actually, I'm pretty sure ALL full-size iPods have always had a clear casing that covers the entire front, NOT just the screen. The type of clear plastic may have changed over time (I doubt it--and we know the 4th and 5th gen/nano are the same), but the iPod has always been white-under-clear.

I believe the reason some people think that's a recent change is that the newest iPods (like the first very ones) have a hard corner around the front edges. That helps you SEE the clear shell that was always there. My 4th gen has rounded edges like your 3g, and it's not as easy to tell the shell is clear--but it is. Your iPod surface isn't made of white plastic with a clear screen, it's a whole clear shell--over top of white plus the screen. No matter which gen you have. (Black instead of white might show more scratches of course.)

The warranty would always cover problems that are Apple's fault (if any such REAL issue should emerge). Now Apple is offering support BEYOND the warranty, covering abuse. That's nice of them, whether it lasts a week, a month, or a year. ANY time period is above and beyond what they have to do. Things are better for customers today than they were before this decision. So what's the problem?

It's like if Apple gave away a free charger to iPod buyers this month. Special promo. Does that make it BS if the promo EVER ends?

Remember, this isn't something Apple is promising or advertising--this is inside info that has been intercepted. Apple's decisions like this ARE subject to change. There's nothing surprising about that.

Something makes me think this rumor will spiral into strange and surreal new places for a long time :p

IF "it comes out that Apple is at fault" then your warranty is likely to apply, or a new decision is likely to come from Apple to rectify the situation. No such fault has emerged YET (and there may BE none) so how you can you criticize Apple's response to it?

You don't NEED a "generous" replacement for a faulty device. Only if you plan to abuse your iPod. The included case is a more convenient solution for that :)

If you're thinking that bhttp://forums.macrumors.com/images/editor/menupop.gifecause two people have posted, remember this: who would BOTHER to post and say "I have no dead pixels"? Very few would. But if you DO have them, it's human nature to complain. Thus, ANY online forum will make the product in question seem more trouble-prone than it really is. 1% of people with a problem will post ten times as much as 99% of people who have nothing to complain about. Nothing wrong with that--it's human nature, and sharing problems/solutions is actually very useful. (And bad pixels on LCDs are an occasional fact of life--otherwise they'd be insanely expensive. 5g iPods of course have many MORE pixels than any previous iPod.)

Yeah, mine doesn't have any dead pixels and i'm very, very happy with it in every aspect.

snowmoon

Oct 29, 2005, 12:20 PM

Personally I think the scratches are way overblown. Wait till people take their 100 watt bulbs outside and do the same test to their cars... SCRATCHES EVERYWHERE!

~Shard~

Oct 29, 2005, 12:29 PM

What is Apple's reason for stopping the Firewire?... I personally don't see it as disappointing, but it seems a fair amount of people do. And the power adapter thing, it doesn't bother me, because you can always charge on a computer, a dock, or an old power adapter (right?). Let me check... yeah, you can. And it's more than worth no power adapter for it to come in such a cute little box.
:D

PCs aren't as commonly equipped with FireWire like Macs are, plus it's extra components which Apple doesn't need to put in. Plus, there isn't a huge discrepancy between transfer rates of FW and USB2.

LimeiBook86

Oct 29, 2005, 02:56 PM

PCs aren't as commonly equipped with FireWire like Macs are, plus it's extra components which Apple doesn't need to put in. Plus, there isn't a huge discrepancy between transfer rates of FW and USB2.
Yeah it's just too bad that Apple didn't have USB 2.0 in their machines as early as they should of. I'm stuck with USB 1.1 on my PowerBook 12", so transferring stuff to my iPod 5G is a real pain :(

itsa

Oct 29, 2005, 03:32 PM

How is a scratching issue a hardware fault?
These things are not cheap! You think they would hold up to "normal use."
I don't have one and can not say that it's a "normal use" issue but everyone I have seen in stores have tons of scratches.

Eevee

Oct 29, 2005, 04:24 PM

This is exactly my point about the nano (and perhaps the new iPod video) exhibiting a disproportionately high rate of aesthetic degradation, and that is a real problem. People can bury their heads in the sand, but the problem won't go away.

My nano was covered in scratches after 2 days of normal use. Here, once again, are some pictures.

Thank you again ksz for sharing your photo of your scratched nano. Hopefully Apple can fix any problems with the video iPod earlier before any more lawsuits.

~Shard~

Oct 29, 2005, 04:49 PM

Yeah it's just too bad that Apple didn't have USB 2.0 in their machines as early as they should of. I'm stuck with USB 1.1 on my PowerBook 12", so transferring stuff to my iPod 5G is a real pain :(

Good point, I never really thought of that. They were quick to jump on FW, yet were perhaps a little to the game for USB 2.0 itself...

powerbook911

Oct 29, 2005, 05:20 PM

I kept the plastic covering that came with the 5th gen iPod, on mine. It has protected it nicely.

LimeiBook86

Oct 29, 2005, 05:35 PM

I kept the plastic covering that came with the 5th gen iPod, on mine. It has protected it nicely.
I did but, when I kept putting it in it's case the plastic kept peeling off, I just ended up peeling the whole thing off and now I need to find a 5G case, one with hole for the wheel and a window for the screen.
:rolleyes:

deanwaterman

Oct 29, 2005, 07:47 PM

What is Apple's reason for stopping the Firewire?... I personally don't see it as disappointing, but it seems a fair amount of people do. And the power adapter thing, it doesn't bother me, because you can always charge on a computer, a dock, or an old power adapter (right?). Let me check... yeah, you can. And it's more than worth no power adapter for it to come in such a cute little box.
:D

I don't understand why people are so sad that Firewire has gone the way of the DoDo bird. The Firewire (400) transfers data @ 400mbps vs the USB 2.0 transferring @ 480mbps. Much better transfer speed, if of course you have 2.0 USB, rather than 1.1.

I would like to see in the future the iPod have an alternative for Firewire 800 along with USB 2.0

deanwaterman

Oct 29, 2005, 07:51 PM

Personally I think the scratches are way overblown. Wait till people take their 100 watt bulbs outside and do the same test to their cars... SCRATCHES EVERYWHERE!

Well Said!
:)

ksz

Oct 29, 2005, 08:46 PM

Personally I think the scratches are way overblown. Wait till people take their 100 watt bulbs outside and do the same test to their cars... SCRATCHES EVERYWHERE!
Only on a clearcoat, particularly black clearcoats. Metallic paint holds up much much better. My previous BMW 528i wore a black clearcoat and I have never elected to purchase the same color choice since. My Titanium Silver 545i only has minor stone chips on the front after 18 months of ownership.

Your reaction is purely emotional.

clayj

Oct 29, 2005, 08:53 PM

ksz

Oct 29, 2005, 09:00 PM

I don't think ANYONE here is suggesting that iPods should be indestructible. Certainly, if you put them in a pocket with keys, change, or any other metallic or hard substances, scratches are to be expected.

But you shouldn't be able to scratch the damn things with a soft cloth. THAT is what I have a real problem with.
Damn straight.

It is this ease of aesthetic degradation that is greatly disproportionate to any other portable consumer electronics device I have ever owned. Previous generation iPods hold up better because there is a difference in the surface materials being used (acrylic on the old versus thin coat of polycarbonate on the new).

MacTruck

Oct 29, 2005, 09:43 PM

Well just returned my nano tonight, apple took it back no questions asked. Nice to get back that $250 seeing as how I forked out $400 for the 60gb video.

gabrielnaylor

Oct 29, 2005, 11:35 PM

I went to the apple store today (40mi away.) I explained that the video was skipping and that it would sometimes try and play video & music at the same time. They looked at me with blank stares and had to explain that they have no replacement parts and that none of them knew a thing about the Ipod video. They couldn't exchange it because I have mine engraved. (Even though through my near-two hour wait I saw three people get engraved ipod nanos exchanged. They took it and now say they will have an answer for me on Monday.
No parts, no cases, no support.

generik

Oct 29, 2005, 11:56 PM

This is exactly my point about the nano (and perhaps the new iPod video) exhibiting a disproportionately high rate of aesthetic degradation, and that is a real problem. People can bury their heads in the sand, but the problem won't go away.

My nano was covered in scratches after 2 days of normal use. Here, once again, are some pictures.

Wow.. that is truly heinous.

To get an equivalent effect on a competing player I will probably have to go to the beach and hurl the player into the sand a few times..

Not stomp on it and drag it through the sand though, just pitting it against the grains should do it.. the same way normal use did your Nano it :mad:

pizzach

Oct 30, 2005, 02:16 PM

I don't understand why people are so sad that Firewire has gone the way of the DoDo bird. The Firewire (400) transfers data @ 400mbps vs the USB 2.0 transferring @ 480mbps. Much better transfer speed, if of course you have 2.0 USB, rather than 1.1.

I would like to see in the future the iPod have an alternative for Firewire 800 along with USB 2.0

Mmmm...It would be nice if the new ipod had the new Firewire port. Most people don't have a clue that a new Firewire version was worked on along with USB.*Sigh* In the long run getting rid of the firewire port makes good business sense. But in the short run it's stepping on the eternally devoted who got Apple there. Maybe Apple is trying to make people upgrade Macs secretly?

Surreal

Oct 30, 2005, 05:05 PM

USB's 480 is a max burst speed. it still maintains lower sustained speeds than FW400... this doesnt matter much with small transfers..but the larger the transfer gets...the more this matters.

but, as has been pointed out...FW800 is ...well...faster still.

and they had BETTER not be getting rid of firewire...because 2 pieces of audio equipment i am buying are firewire based. Firewire has it's place...it is simply overkill for small things.

Mmmm...It would be nice if the new ipod had the new Firewire port. Most people don't have a clue that a new Firewire version was worked on along with USB.*Sigh* In the long run getting rid of the firewire port makes good business sense. But in the short run it's stepping on the eternally devoted who got Apple there. Maybe Apple is trying to make people upgrade Macs secretly?

nagromme

Nov 3, 2005, 02:04 PM

Wow.. that is truly heinous.

To get an equivalent effect on a competing player I will probably have to go to the beach and hurl the player into the sand a few times..
Not to deny anyone's pain, but just to put the fear of buying a new iPod into perspective: a close-up CAMERA FLASH makes scratches look MUCH worse than they would to the eye alone. Even a tiny micro-scratch you may have never noticed becomes a bright white line in that situation.

Re Firewire going away: hardly. It's been removed from the iPod, where there's little demand for it. It is NOT going away from camcorders, external drives, Macs, or even PCs. Because even FW 400 IS faster in the real world than USB 2, to say nothing of FW 800 and beyond. Apple has in no way backed off of Firewire for their computers.

In fact, the irony is that the people most complaining about the lack of Firewire are in reality (and quite understandably) the ones bothered by Apple being late to use USB 2. I say irony, because Apple's decision to hold off on USB 2 was probably made to PROMOTE the sale of Firewire devices :) And for all I know, it may have been effective in that. So the people complaining about being stuck on USB 1 may in fact be looking at an issue caused by just how far Apple WILL go to promote Firewire.