Motorola RAZR V3i Released (with iTunes) [Archive]

MacRumors

Nov 8, 2005, 12:57 PM

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Today Motorola released (http://www.motorola.com/motoinfo/product/details/0,,130,00.html) a new phone with optional iTunes support, the RAZR V3i. The new phone is the ultrathin design and lazer-etched keypad.

• Updated and streamlined Motorola RAZR V3 design
• 1.23 megapixel digital camera with 8x digital zoom, video capture and full screen viewfinder
• iTunes™ music software or Motorola’s Digital Audio Music Player with mini-USB stereo headset
• Airplane mode
• Hot swappable TransFlash™ memory card
• 262K color wallpapers & screensavers on internal display
• 65K color support on external display
• Speaker independent name & digit dialing
• Dedicated browser and messaging keys
• Integrated Class 1 Bluetooth technology with imaging, printing, peer to peer gaming profiles
• Motorola’s SCREEN3 technology* solution featuring zero-click access to news, sports, entertainment and other program content
• Rich, pre-loaded or downloaded J2ME™ games, screen savers and MP3 ringtones

According to Motorola, availability is expected in Q4 2005.

CubaTBird

Nov 8, 2005, 12:58 PM

so now i know why all my friends were getting their razors for free with their plans..

tangerineyum

Nov 8, 2005, 01:01 PM

this is great and all, but does it still have the 100 song cap like the rokr?

~Shard~

Nov 8, 2005, 01:01 PM

So can current RAZR users trade in their phones for these new ones? ;)

I think I'll still hold out for an Apple iPhone. :cool:

obeygiant

Nov 8, 2005, 01:04 PM

looks hot.. too bad i already have a treo 650.

bokdol

Nov 8, 2005, 01:04 PM

the question should be when will they support verizon so i can get me one.

m-dogg

Nov 8, 2005, 01:05 PM

Why didn't they release this one to start back in September?

I think this is the idea everyone had in their head when they heard that Moto would be designing a phone with iTunes support...

Steven1621

Nov 8, 2005, 01:06 PM

Will Verizon cripple the Transflash photo transfer option? I'm willing to bet they will try, if they even offer it...

Lord Blackadder

Nov 8, 2005, 01:08 PM

This is the phone they should have offered in the first place. Still, it will be popular.

bigandy

Nov 8, 2005, 01:08 PM

an improvement.

just a shame it's still a motorola :rolleyes:

JohnGalt

Nov 8, 2005, 01:09 PM

Let's hope they've improved outbound voice quality of this phone over the ROKR. One 'silent' issue with the ROKR is that while voice quality inbound is terrific, outbound SUCKS. People cannot understand you, tell you your voice sounds as if you're underwater, etc. I've tried four (4) ROKRS, all with the same problem. IHMO, there's an issue with the internal A/D convertor, but if it's not that, there's something not right........

XNine

Nov 8, 2005, 01:10 PM

Well, that's my next phone. Of course it'll probably cost as much as an XBOX 360, but who cares?! Actually, I do, but that is a damn nice phone. Me wants.

finalcoolman

Nov 8, 2005, 01:12 PM

It seems that in the not too distant future, iTunes will become a standard feature on all mid-high end Motorola phones across the GSM and CDMA lineup, just like Bluetooth or Java. It's definantly not too difficult to put the iTunes app into the firmware.

p0intblank

Nov 8, 2005, 01:12 PM

Nice. The more phones that utilize iTunes, the better! I just really wish Apple would offer an over-the-air download service. Now THAT would be awesome. :)

Fotek2001

Nov 8, 2005, 01:12 PM

badmofo9000

Nov 8, 2005, 01:14 PM

the question should be when will they support verizon so i can get me one.

I believe the original razr was only for gsm networks(cingular, t-mobile). If they kept this gsm only then it is a no go for verizon, or us cellular as they are cdma networks and not gsm.

rockandrule

Nov 8, 2005, 01:15 PM

Very nice phone, but I'm definitely waiting for an Apple-branded Smart Phone.

skunk

Nov 8, 2005, 01:19 PM

The new phone is the ultrathin design and lazer-etched keypad.I know you Americans love your Zees, but LASER is an acronym.

dr_lha

Nov 8, 2005, 01:20 PM

I can't beleive the crap cell phone carriers in the US make their customers put up with - cripped phones from Verizon, charges to receive SMS messages, it's no wonder the industry in the US is so far behind the rest of the world...

Not to mention the crap Pay-as-you-go phones here where the minutes expire if you don't use them within a certain time period, or some where they actually charge you a daily fee to have them (I'm looking at you Verizon).

Yes US Cell Phone carriers are ****, but at least I'm still on an old AT+T Wireless contract that doesn't charge me for incoming SMSs!

scheming

Nov 8, 2005, 01:22 PM

i kept my v600 waiting for something that was actually better and not just more stylish and now im really excited for this. :) screw the slvr l7 by the way. the features sound stupid compared to this

AP_piano295

Nov 8, 2005, 01:22 PM

How much does it cost now?
Give it a year or so and you know theyll be free or almost free with the plan but I kinda want it now :) .

AP_piano295

Nov 8, 2005, 01:24 PM

I know you Americans love your Zees, but LASER is an acronym.

lemme gues Light Accelerated Serated Edge Razor

oskar

Nov 8, 2005, 01:27 PM

skunk

Nov 8, 2005, 01:31 PM

lemme gues Light Accelerated Serated Edge RazorClose.
:rolleyes:

rikers_mailbox

Nov 8, 2005, 01:31 PM

I know you Americans love your Zees, but LASER is an acronym.

Wouldn't that be Zeds? :D

BTW, Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation

Now back on topic: I hate the RAZR. It's got too much going on... why, oh why, can't I just have a phone?!? Maybe one that actually works! So often these phones with cameras, browsers, games, toasters, etc. don't work as advertized... not to mention the lousy reception.

Stewie

Nov 8, 2005, 01:32 PM

I believe the original razr was only for gsm networks(cingular, t-mobile). If they kept this gsm only then it is a no go for verizon, or us cellular as they are cdma networks and not gsm.

Moto also announced a V3c (c for CDMA networks) today. Also it is supposed to have EV-DO support as well as a slightly better camera. No mention of iTunes though. Engadget (http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000350067074/) has some details.

skunk

Nov 8, 2005, 01:33 PM

Wouldn't that be Zeds? :DYes, it would - if you could speak English. I was trying to keep it simple...

iGav

Nov 8, 2005, 01:35 PM

Wow, what a tatty looking phone.

cwtnospam

Nov 8, 2005, 01:36 PM

the question should be when will they support verizon so i can get me one.
Actually, the question is: When will Verizon get on board. I'm willing to switch to another carrier to get iTunes and have told them so. The more people that are willing to do that, the more likely they will offer the phone.

tsaxer

Nov 8, 2005, 01:36 PM

It seems though, that even though LASER is indeed an acronym, lazer(no caps inherent) has entered our colloquial lexicon as a noun somewhat removed from its acronymous function (think Lazer Tag). Just one of the wonderful ways language changes, thank goodness we don't still speak Olde Engliscne.

Edit: On topic - I still do not regret picking up my s710a back in September. Moto's interface seems so Atari now.

nels0360

Nov 8, 2005, 01:43 PM

I think that the biggest problem with this phone is that it is unable to be used with standard headphones / earbuds. Is there some sort of converter that can be used to go from USB to 3.5mm audio jack? I really don't want to be forced to use the include earbuds.

pizzach

Nov 8, 2005, 01:46 PM

I know you Americans love your Zees, but LASER is an acronym.

Didn't notice it was misspelled until now because I was only looking at the tiny print. I'm sure lots of kids spell it lazer. I just hope the grown ups know better. :D

Demon Hunter

Nov 8, 2005, 01:46 PM

Yes! It has finally arrived!

Now I can retire The Beast.

AP_piano295

Nov 8, 2005, 01:46 PM

price?

ShiggyMiyamoto

Nov 8, 2005, 01:48 PM

cwtnospam

Nov 8, 2005, 01:49 PM

jared_kipe

Nov 8, 2005, 01:55 PM

Any word as to how much it's gonna cost? The current RAZRs go for $199 or $249 respectively. $199 with a 2 year plan (Cingular) and a 1 year plan (T-Mobile) and I think for both of those it's $249.

By the way,
******** awesome! Finally my fav phone is gonna have iTunes, and the swappable flash card feature will allow users to assign full length songs as ring tones. w00t!

People need to shop around, amazon and letstalk.com both have black and silver razrs for FREEEEEEE. Why does Cingular and all charge 200usd for something other places give away. Of course that is with a NEW contract, but still, Cingular and verizon and everyone else needs to lower the prices on their phones. They make their money from service plans anyway, why charge so much for the hardware?

SilvorX

Nov 8, 2005, 01:56 PM

that's the exact type of phone I wanted, a camera with the mpix of my motorola phone, a razr and a rokr all into one

shamino

Nov 8, 2005, 02:06 PM

Yes! It has finally arrived!

Now I can retire The Beast.
Personally, I'd love an updated version of "The Beast" that has a modern Palm PDA in it (320x320 color screen, PalmOS 5, faster CPU, etc.)

I don't appreciate these ultra-small phones everybody's selling today. I want something that fits my hand, not something that a small child might accidentally swallow.

FireArse

Nov 8, 2005, 02:07 PM

a razr and a rokr all into one

Thats what I've been waiting for - a replacement for my v3 on T-Mobile in the UK. Must admit I was on an 18-month contract to get the free upgrade, but this year my monthly spending has shot up (i hate girlfriends!)

I am so happy with my v3. The build quality is better than the Nokia's and the SE's. The software is a bit slow to use - eg SMS writing - but maybe all i need is a software upgrade?

How can I better my V3 - buy a V3i!!

:)

aegisdesign

Nov 8, 2005, 02:07 PM

Yes US Cell Phone carriers are ****, but at least I'm still on an old AT+T Wireless contract that doesn't charge me for incoming SMSs!

Charged for incoming SMS?

Oh my giddy Aunt! No wonder SMS isn't popular in the US.

Object-X

Nov 8, 2005, 02:18 PM

This should have been the phone they introduced at the keynote. It may not be perfect, but it sure is better than the ROKR. This has swapable memory so the song limit issue is muted a bit. I like my black RAZR, but I might spring for this.

aegisdesign

Nov 8, 2005, 02:20 PM

Very nice phone. The pre-Paris Expo announcement wouldn't have been so lame if they had announced this phone instead of the ROKR. This phone is much more like what we would expect from something related to Apple.

Except for the OS it runs and the iSync support.

But then, IMHO no phone on the market is anything like something Apple would produce. Every phone OS and UI going sucks doo-doo.

SiliconAddict

Nov 8, 2005, 02:20 PM

why, oh why, can't I just have a phone?!? Maybe one that actually works!

A-bloody-fing-men. Cell phone production has gone the way of the hype machine. Screw good battery life and awesome reception.
Introducing the future. . . today. . . forget about the RAZR. Introducing the LASER 28f5534092-i model. This baby can slice bread with a high watt beam. Yes now you too can slice your bread on the go. All previous phones are irrelevant. The new 28f5534092-I blows them all away. . . Literally.
And forget about e911. This baby has a miniature flare built into the head of the unit. Now you too can save your sorry butt when trapped on a mountainside or lost a sea.
Finally the new and improved 28f5534092-i has a miniature printer built into the unit itself. Never again be without a 3" printer. Print your documents on the go anywhere. Now you have to be wondering about battery life right? Fear not. The battery backpack can keep you going for hours without a charge.

http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:KEhnDwkZi1cJ:www.mountain-bikes-now.com/images/Tn_A00022.jpg

WARNING. Device not allowed on airlines based out of the US.

sethypoo

Nov 8, 2005, 02:26 PM

I just bought a V3 Razr on Friday, and returned it on Monday due to a constant buzzing noise in the earpiece. The noise was there whether or not I'm on the phone. It was so annoying that I decided to return it and go for their free phone, a Nokia 3120.

Now, I'm glad I returned the Razr. I'm really hoping they fixed the buzzing problem, and LENGTHENED the battery life. It was abysmal!

sjo

Nov 8, 2005, 02:30 PM

A-bloody-fing-men. Cell phone production has gone the way of the hype machine. Screw good battery life and awesome reception.

i wonder why someone starts whining about the new features every time a new advanced cell phone is introduced :confused:

no-one's forcing anyone to buy these phones, there's plenty of plain old cell phones available for any technophobe out there :)

macorama

Nov 8, 2005, 02:32 PM

According to Motorola, availability is expected in Q4 2005.

Well, seeing as we're in Q4 now, at least this phone hasn't been hyped for months and months before release like the first one.

highpass

Nov 8, 2005, 02:35 PM

the first one was possibly one of the most cack-handed phones ever made. whilst it looked the muts nuts, you wouldnt have found a clunkier OS if you paired bill gates with a herd of dead cows. hope they've sorted it in the new one :D

troll=0

jiv3turkey748

Nov 8, 2005, 02:43 PM

i want that phone!!!!!
too bad i have sprint

aswitcher

Nov 8, 2005, 02:46 PM

Not bad. Shame we didn't see this 2 months ago. I think this will sell well IF its not too crippled for iTunes.

bigjohn

Nov 8, 2005, 02:51 PM

Do I get this or wait for the BLACK RAZR v3i?

The real problem is that I still love my little T616

FoxyKaye

Nov 8, 2005, 02:51 PM

I was holding out for this version of the RAZR, but got too annoyed at T-Mobile to wait any longer. Just got a Motorola E815 - it has all of these features except iTunes, and will sync with ical/address book via BT iSync. I don't know, maybe it's just me, but until iTunes will let you go over the 100 limit, I'll stick with the Moto MP3 player which holds as much as the largest transflash card I can stick in.

That's, of course, if I see a reason why I should listen to a tiny amount of music on a cell phone instead of just using my 20GB iPod. Plus the E815 is eminently hackable to enable BT OBEX that Verizon crippled out.

bbyrdhouse

Nov 8, 2005, 03:02 PM

A-bloody-fing-men. Cell phone production has gone the way of the hype machine. Screw good battery life and awesome reception.
Introducing the future. . . today. . . forget about the RAZR. Introducing the LASER 28f5534092-i model. This baby can slice bread with a high watt beam. Yes now you too can slice your bread on the go. All previous phones are irrelevant. The new 28f5534092-I blows them all away. . . Literally.
And forget about e911. This baby has a miniature flare built into the head of the unit. Now you too can save your sorry butt when trapped on a mountainside or lost a sea.
Finally the new and improved 28f5534092-i has a miniature printer built into the unit itself. Never again be without a 3" printer. Print your documents on the go anywhere. Now you have to be wondering about battery life right? Fear not. The battery backpack can keep you going for hours without a charge.

http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:KEhnDwkZi1cJ:www.mountain-bikes-now.com/images/Tn_A00022.jpg

WARNING. Device not allowed on airlines based out of the US.

Now this is the phone I want! :D

Not really, I think that phones have become overbloated with unnecessary bells and whistles.

Good reception
Long battery life
Bluetooth sync so you dont have to type all them #'s in that tiny phone
Address book & Alarm are all you need in a phone.

inkhead

Nov 8, 2005, 03:02 PM

Is this phone CDMA or GSM? Why doesn't it say anywhere?

Demon Hunter

Nov 8, 2005, 03:04 PM

Is this phone CDMA or GSM? Why doesn't it say anywhere?

It's GSM.

The V3c is CDMA.

csubear

Nov 8, 2005, 03:04 PM

The current state of cell phones in the us is sad. I now have a Nokia 6620, not a bad phone, but the not as good (IMO) as the much older phone(3 years+) it replaced (a 3650). Most if not all the phones out there have a feature set on par or sometimes even worse than my old 3650. Here is what i want in a phone.

Works every time.
4 day + battery life.
Good outgoing, incoming sound.
Good bluetooth, ie dosn't randomly drop your hands free set.
Fast user interface that makes sense.
Seemless syncing on contacts (via bluetooth)

For me the nokia 3650 hit many of those point, and the 6620 is simlar but the user interface is slower, and a bit more buggy. I find my self taking the battery out to rest the phone more offen.

O well heres hoping that some day some one will make a phone that meets all those requirement..

csubear

Nov 8, 2005, 03:06 PM

caccamolle

Nov 8, 2005, 03:13 PM

man ! screw the stupid retarded cameras!!!!! lose them !

caccamolle

Nov 8, 2005, 03:17 PM

Tupring

Nov 8, 2005, 03:20 PM

the question should be when will they support verizon so i can get me one.I hope T-Mobile has it this time.

Analog Kid

Nov 8, 2005, 03:21 PM

Anyone else notice this:

**Music capabilities dependent on operator and regional availability and support. iTunes is not available on all models in all regions. Verify whether or not the model will have iTunes or Motorola’s Digital Audio Music player with your operator at time of purchase.

***If the phone has iTunes software, the messaging key will be replaced with a dedicated iTunes key.

lopresmb

Nov 8, 2005, 03:28 PM

sounds much better than the silly ROKR...

jayb2000

Nov 8, 2005, 03:29 PM

Sorry, I agree with the posters that wish Apple had teamed up with Nokia or SE.
I had Nokia's for years and never had problems with the interface, usability, etc.
I have had a Motorola V600 and it has been such junk I will never use them again. Not just the lousy hardware, but the interface, the poor menu design, etc.
Having used a RAZR a few times as well, I can say I actually like it LESS than a V600. The buttons are difficult to differentiate. I think the best phone I ever had was the 8260. Great battery life, durable, etc. http://www.eblink.tv/emodus/nokia-8260l.gif

I have a nice digital camera.
I have an iPod.
I want a good, clear, long lasting, easy to sync, digital phone. If I wanted a little computer I would get a Treo or similar. If I wanted to type with my thumbs I would get psychological help or a blackberry. ;)

Just give me a phone as dependable as a home phone with an address book, please.

EDIT: tried to fix image, accidentaly posted twice, sorry.

jayb2000

Nov 8, 2005, 03:30 PM

SummerBreeze

Nov 8, 2005, 03:40 PM

Ha, my Christmas present just got better! Can't wait for it to come out :D

quigleybc

Nov 8, 2005, 03:44 PM

NICE!!

Now we're talkin!!

I want it..:p

JDOG_

Nov 8, 2005, 04:02 PM

This is going to canabalize ROKR sales. I'd much rather have this in my pocket.

zap2

Nov 8, 2005, 04:21 PM

Well i hope verizon get this phone( i can dream) but i just updaetd my phone but still cool news

Lynxpro

Nov 8, 2005, 04:21 PM

Moto's interface seems so Atari now.

So Atari? Watch it, bub....when your Mac was black & white, we AtariSTers were rockin' in color at half the price...

And Steve Jobs got his tech experience at Atari before founding Apple...something that *The Pirates of Silicon Valley* seemed to have conveniently forgotten...

mandis

Nov 8, 2005, 04:24 PM

Ok so this is my next phone, i'm glad i got that sorted...

How long till it's available in the UK?

Lynxpro

Nov 8, 2005, 04:27 PM

The real problem is that I still love my little T616

I have the T616. I love the Bluetooth, but Cingular (damn them, I was with AT&T!) service in Sacramento is complete a**. More bars my a**... More dropped signals and interference more like it... Or maybe its just because that phone is a "candybar" form factor and not a "clamshell" flip. Me thinks flip phones get better reception. And anything is better than the microwave equivalent that are Nokias. For the life of me, I don't understand why the Euros have such an affinity for that company. Then again, it does explain their foreign policy (imho) since everyone's running around Euroland with a Nokia cooking their brain cells... :)

I kid I kid!

QCassidy352

Nov 8, 2005, 04:27 PM

Actually, the question is: When will Verizon get on board. I'm willing to switch to another carrier to get iTunes and have told them so. The more people that are willing to do that, the more likely they will offer the phone.

No way. I want my cell phone to be good at one thing - calls. And verizon is the best for that (at least all the places I've lived). All the other features - BT, itunes, cameras, nice design, etc. - are cute, but I'd never give up the best network (and hence the most clear and reliable calling) for something with all the bells and whistles that I won't be able to use when I need it.

So I hope verizon does get on board, but I'm sure as heck not leaving them just to have the latest must-have phone.

Lynxpro

Nov 8, 2005, 04:28 PM

I hope T-Mobile has it this time.

Ditto, or plain-paper faxed, whatever the lingo is today.

Friends don't let friends use Cingular.

cwtnospam

Nov 8, 2005, 04:30 PM

Plus the E815 is eminently hackable to enable BT OBEX that Verizon crippled out.
Please post any links on how to do this. My contract with Verizon expires next month and I'll be switching carriers if I can't find a way to sync my next phone with my Mac.
;)

cwtnospam

Nov 8, 2005, 04:33 PM

..but I'm sure as heck not leaving them just to have the latest must-have phone.
It's not for the phone, it's to keep from being robbed. I don't like the idea of paying for something I already own, like mp3s that I should be able to transfer from my computer or address book information that shouldn't have to go through their system for a fee.

mandis

Nov 8, 2005, 04:36 PM

So Atari? Watch it, bub....when your Mac was black & white, we AtariSTers were rockin' in color at half the price...

Atari had some seriously crummy hardware back then.
...Amiga however was much much crummier:p

And Steve Jobs got his tech experience at Atari before founding Apple...something that *The Pirates of Silicon Valley* seemed to have conveniently forgotten...

They seem to have *conveniently* forgoten alot more than just that...:rolleyes:

MrSugar

Nov 8, 2005, 04:39 PM

I have to say I am very unhappy with the fact you can't use any regular old Headphones. They have to be special mini USB headphones.... blah, pretty annoying and lame.

wtmcgee

Nov 8, 2005, 04:49 PM

I'll be getting one of these quite soon. :)

maya

Nov 8, 2005, 04:59 PM

Kinda pointless for my usage. :(

Demon Hunter

Nov 8, 2005, 05:10 PM

manu chao

Nov 8, 2005, 05:15 PM

Now back on topic: I hate the RAZR. It's got too much going on... why, oh why, can't I just have a phone?!? Maybe one that actually works! So often these phones with cameras, browsers, games, toasters, etc. don't work as advertized...

Just ignore all other features. I always said I don't need a cell phone with a camera and crap like this (not to mention WAP).

But... I bought a razor, because it is really small/thin, it is a flip-phone, has a big screen and it looks good (mainly because it is so thin and because of its metal casing).

I have not used the camera yet, I only used the address book, the calender (incl. synching), sending and receiving SMS, the list of incoming and outgoing calls and once the alarm clock. I also use it as a clock and make calls. But I have not used any of the other features. And I don't mind that they are there.

spice weasel

Nov 8, 2005, 05:15 PM

I can't beleive the crap cell phone carriers in the US make their customers put up with - cripped phones from Verizon, charges to receive SMS messages, it's no wonder the industry in the US is so far behind the rest of the world...

The RAZR with its clunky Moto user interface is just another example of wireless technology not living up to the hype. Apple should have looked into working with innovative manufacturers like Sony Ericsson, Nokia or even Samsung - disappointing!

I briefly used a Moto phone a while ago (I can't remember the model) for work. The phone was so horrible and the interface so archane that I just threw the thing in a drawer and told my boss to call me on my own Sony Ericcson phone and that I would pay for any charges. The new RAZR could come for free and let me load my entire music collection on it and I would still take a pass until they get better software.

Tupring

Nov 8, 2005, 05:20 PM

manu chao

Nov 8, 2005, 05:22 PM

Charged for incoming SMS?

Oh my giddy Aunt! No wonder SMS isn't popular in the US.

Imagine they charged you for incoming e-mail...

spinko

Nov 8, 2005, 05:23 PM

Yeah, cell phones continue to disappoint I guess. Tons of features nobody needs, none of the refinement users demand. Same crappy Motorola GUI.

With our greedy conglomerate carriers and expensive, boring phone designs... it makes me wonder why I use a cell phone at all.

Also, for all the flak against Nokia, they are the only ones I've seen with Bluetooth 2.0 specification... and you can order directly from their website.

Damn, Apple spoils us bad. I want an iPhone. :mad:

this is a nice phone from B&O which is very simple... Apple could get some inspiration here. I havn't got one yet because it is expensive..

http://www.bang-olufsen.com/web2/systems/product.asp?section=systems&sub=tp&prodid=562

Demon Hunter

Nov 8, 2005, 05:27 PM

I think Samsung and Nokia phones are disappointing.

Samsung is always disappointing. :p

Nokia has that open-source operating system right? It's good looking.

Tupring

Nov 8, 2005, 05:29 PM

I briefly used a Moto phone a while ago (I can't remember the model) for work. The phone was so horrible and the interface so archane that I just threw the thing in a drawer and told my boss to call me on my own Sony Ericcson phone and that I would pay for any charges. The new RAZR could come for free and let me load my entire music collection on it and I would still take a pass until they get better software.:eek:

PharmD

Nov 8, 2005, 05:39 PM

Nice looking phone. I still wouldn't buy it if I had to stay with Crapular. They were so good as AT&T. More bars in no places.

JRM PowerPod

Nov 8, 2005, 05:41 PM

hey guys may be stupid but is the Q4 2005 they refer to the financial year in America or Calendar year.

SilvorX

Nov 8, 2005, 06:04 PM

Charged for incoming SMS?

Oh my giddy Aunt! No wonder SMS isn't popular in the US.
oddly enough I've never heard of a carrier in Canada that does not charge for txt messages, while in the states they charge for them..for most carriers that I know of.. but then again some US carriers have to pay 10c/incoming txt message (w/o plan), while in Canada we're forced to pay $6.95 for a "system access fee" no matter what carrier your with (they say it's a government fee... it is not at all)

afields

Nov 8, 2005, 06:06 PM

does this have edge?

puckhead193

Nov 8, 2005, 06:12 PM

Will Verizon cripple the Transflash photo transfer option? I'm willing to bet they will try, if they even offer it...
when u mean photo transfer with the TF card do u mean like putting a picture on the TF card and then putting it on your phone cause their is a work around that's really easy......... ;)

Xacttech

Nov 8, 2005, 06:39 PM

. . .
Having used a RAZR a few times as well, I can say I actually like it LESS than a V600. The buttons are difficult to differentiate. I think the best phone I ever had was the 8260. Great battery life, durable, etc. http://www.eblink.tv/emodus/nokia-8260l.gif
I still use that phone to this date...
I'm scared to give it up...

I never drop calls, no one complains about being able to hear me (unless it's their end) I have service where no one else does (rural areas)

I'm also not under contract, and on the old TDMA AT&T network. So what if I can't beam you a picture, or listen to Fitty Cent when "YOU" call me.

I know it's only a matter of time before I have to upgrade, was thinking the new RAZR might be it. Probably not.

Whyren

Nov 8, 2005, 06:44 PM

All riiight, a cell phone that might be worth owning! Now, if I can just find a calling plan that's a worthwhile deal...

Lynxpro

Nov 8, 2005, 06:49 PM

Atari had some seriously crummy hardware back then.
...Amiga however was much much crummier:p

You can't be serious... The ST and the Amiga both ran circles around the Mac back in the day. Its only due to both of those platforms untimely deaths that many of us are now in Appleland.

EricNau

Nov 8, 2005, 06:51 PM

I am waiting for a Verizon one, so I'll probably never get it because Verizon has never had good phones, and I'm starting to think they never will. :mad:

Lynxpro

Nov 8, 2005, 06:52 PM

Also, for all the flak against Nokia, they are the only ones I've seen with Bluetooth 2.0 specification... and you can order directly from their website.

Because Nokias cook your brain! Seriously....historically they've been the worst offenders (well, Qualcomm too) when it comes to emitting radiation.

What did I get from my Nokia? Headaches. And when I complained to my doctor, I found myself getting a CAT scan paid for by a survey conducted by unnamed corporations...

And no, they did not find any tumors. Granted, it was a hard scan and not with using the chemicals they prefer to inject you with that quite possibly can kill you according to the medical release form.

geniusj

Nov 8, 2005, 06:58 PM

FoxyKaye

Nov 8, 2005, 07:03 PM

Please post any links on how to do this. My contract with Verizon expires next month and I'll be switching carriers if I can't find a way to sync my next phone with my Mac.
;)
Well, it's a tad off-topic, and without reviewing all of MR's user guide I'm not sure how the mods would feel about this info here. I'll offer a few quick tips to point you in the right direction: NuclearElephant.com has a lot of info on the E815, you need a Windows XP computer, and a Google search for "Motorola E815" and "OBEX" will turn up the majority of the relevant info. Beyond that, you'll have to find a few (relatively easily located) programs and files to make this happen. I actually haven't done anything to mine yet, since the added benefit based on my use doesn't outweigh the effort.

However, I can say that my E815 synched up with iSync out of the box with Verizon. iSync with all Motorola phones only supports phone numbers/emails in the address book, and the datebook. A couple weeks ago I spent time combing through the Verizon store and comparing it to the iSync compatibility list from Apple, and only turned up the Motorola E815 and one of the PDA-style phones (I forget which one) as compatible. So, if you wind up keeping Verizon, these are your only options (no RAZR or ROKR).

Xero

Nov 8, 2005, 07:43 PM

...On topic - I still do not regret picking up my s710a back in September. Moto's interface seems so Atari now.

Im gonna have to agree there. I just got an s710a and still feel ill be happier with it than i would be with any Moto iTunes phone currently on the market. It takes maybe an extra 30 seconds to manually grab some mp3s and load them onto my phone. Plus im pretty sure Verizon (or moto... one or the other) locks out a lot of bluetooth functionality. My roommate's moto/verizon phone has bluetooth but when i try to connect it with my laptop it gives me some "not supported" type error...

The only thing that bugs me about the s710a so far is the proprietary headphone jack... considering the headphones it came with are super uncomfertable, despite the fact that they actually sound pretty good! Oh and the slightly slower user interface, although it still feels layed out better than my roommate's moto phone.

Regardless, i still cant get over how cool it is to be sitting at my laptop listening to music or watching a dvd and when someone calls, having the music/dvd pause and mute while a bezel window pops up showing the name of whos calling and their address book picture. :D:D:D

MacEyeDoc

Nov 8, 2005, 07:47 PM

Yes, it would - if you could speak English. I was trying to keep it simple...

Let's All Say England Rocks = LASER

cwtnospam

Nov 8, 2005, 07:48 PM

....you need a Windows XP computer...Thanks for the info, but Windoze? I'd rather use pencil & paper.

JohnHummel

Nov 8, 2005, 07:53 PM

looks hot.. too bad i already have a treo 650.

I believe it would be wise of Apple to add a mini-iTunes to the 650.

Why? Market share - if they get more people playing their songs on portable phone devices - devices that have software that only run from the iTunes store - they can become the defacto standard of music.

Then again, I wonder if the new RAZR will play MS Windows based audio. Odds are that's the rub: I'll bet it plays MP3, AA (audible), AAC, and Protected AAC - but <em>not WMA</em>. The Treo is harder to "lock in" (then again, MS hasn't given us a WMA player on it, so maybe it would equal out).

Odds are, Apple's going to allow phones to play who *only* play with the iTunes store. The goal is to get MS and Real (and anybody else) out of the space, so that eventually the *only* music store that people buy from online for their phones/portable devices is either a place that sells vanilla MP3 or is the iTunes store.

Or, that's my thinking. Still, a Palm based iTunes would be nice for my Treo :).

Prom1

Nov 8, 2005, 08:00 PM

I havent owned a Motorola since the P7382i candy bar green/black screen days in early 2001. You remember it back when the colour screen phones had to live up to the Ericsson T68m/SE T68i?!! Well here is why ....

Yeah, cell phones continue to disappoint I guess. Tons of features nobody needs, none of the refinement users demand. Same crappy Motorola GUI.

Also, for all the flak against Nokia, they are the only ones I've seen with Bluetooth 2.0 specification... and you can order directly from their website.

Be very very careful here, the first phone to have Bluetooth v2.0 is the SE K750i; take a look for it on the bluetooth.org qaulification pages, and click on the "i" for information in a PDF format.

Nokia has the N70, and the upcoming N80/N92 phones with BT v2.0 & also the 6270/6280 series 40 phones coming in December with Cingular getting the 6282 with 1900mhz WCDMA for North America. Beautiful sliders with 2.0 megapixels.

If any of you want a phone that can compare to the sound quality of the iPod Nano then look no further than the k750i/W800 & also the upcoming twister W900i !! This phone is one of 3 I want in the next year. why?

470MB user usuable on-board memory for music & files & photos, 2.0MP camera that is leading quality compared to anything on the market (heritage is from the K750i). Memory Stick Duo Pro for up to 2GB (currently) - 4GB (end of March '06 for the launch of the P990i UIQ3 Symbian OS smartphone)!

And to top it off it comes in sheek Black & Nano iPod White.

there is a review on the mobile-review site click the english link if you prefer or just use BabelFish.

ddrueckhammer

Nov 8, 2005, 08:43 PM

The recent Wired magazine was interesting because it implied that the failure of the ROKR (c'mon I think we can all admit that it was a failure) was because of different interests between the carriers and Apple. ie the cell carriers want to be able to sell music to their subscribers over their networks and make money from it. The article implied that the resulting watered down phone was result of this tension and was Moto's way of appeasing the carriers. Also, Apple not wanting to infringe on Nano/Shuffle sales and not being willing to license their DRM were factors as well according to the article.

The emergence of this phone and the iTunes SLVR seems to indicate that Wired was incorrect in their analysis or Motorola cobbled this together with Apple as an afterthought. I'm not sure why Motorola wouldn't have announced these phones at the Apple press event when they had the chance and just say "shipping in 1 month"...It seems like a public relations disaster.

I think that Apple should offer a way for cell phones to connect to the iTMS wirelessly. The carriers could charge for the connection and at least make some money. I guess most people wouldn't use this but most people aren't going to pay $2.50 for a song from Sprint either...

stephenli

Nov 8, 2005, 08:45 PM

anyway it is much better than ROKR right?
its an improvement right?
lets wait for other exciting stuff come out lateron :cool:

jayb2000

Nov 8, 2005, 09:08 PM

tsaxer

Nov 8, 2005, 09:11 PM

So Atari? Watch it, bub....when your Mac was black & white, we AtariSTers were rockin' in color at half the price...

And Steve Jobs got his tech experience at Atari before founding Apple...something that *The Pirates of Silicon Valley* seemed to have conveniently forgotten...

I loved the Atari, but look at it now and look at modern games. I am simply saying that the jump seems similar. Moto's interface would have been decent some years ago, but just doesn't look as good as what phones are capable of today.

artifex

Nov 8, 2005, 09:14 PM

RAZRs are ugly and break easily when dropped.
And they probably still limit the number of songs you can put on a card, artificially.
No thanks.

davefan6435

Nov 8, 2005, 09:39 PM

Anyone know if the dimensions are still the same. My girlfriend said something about making it not as wide that interested me. I'm definitly going to get this phone when my contract ends in may. Anyone know when the original razr's dropped in price? I don't wanna be stuck footing a crazy price tag if there going to drop a few weeks later.

xy14

Nov 8, 2005, 09:48 PM

Misplaced Mage

Nov 8, 2005, 09:54 PM

The emergence of this phone and the iTunes SLVR seems to indicate that Wired was incorrect in their analysis or Motorola cobbled this together with Apple as an afterthought.From a software standpoint, the biggest problem I see Apple and Motorola had was developing an iPod client (I don't know what else to call it) that integrated into at least one of the operating systems Motorola presently uses in their phones (they have at least three current ones, depending on the chipset and feature set, and a couple of dozen legacy ones going back some 25 years). Once it was done with ROKR, it's a straightforward port to any other phone using the same OS, especially if the client is Java-based.

But notice that the V3c is excluded: Motorola's CDMA phones generally use a Qualcomm chipset these days, which means any iPod/iTunes client would have to play nice not only with Motorola's software, but Qualcomm's libraries as well. And a BREW client (Verizon, AllTel, US Cellular, etc.) would have to be sold through a carrier download store due to the digital signature required of each BREW app installed, so Apple would STILL need the blessing of those carriers to offer an independent application. Which I don't see happening unless their own upcoming music stores tank badly. :(

Misplaced Mage

Nov 8, 2005, 09:57 PM

I loved the Atari, but look at it now and look at modern games. I am simply saying that the jump seems similar. Moto's interface would have been decent some years ago, but just doesn't look as good as what phones are capable of today.Then go take a look at the new standard Verizon interface on their most recent offerings from LG and Samsung. If Verizon gets the V3c (which seems highly likely, based on what I've been reading on other sites), that's the UI it will have. Verizon's interface simplifies some things, but those ever-present red bars -- ugh.

cwtnospam

Nov 8, 2005, 10:16 PM

I think that Apple should offer a way for cell phones to connect to the iTMS wirelessly. The carriers could charge for the connection and at least make some money. I guess most people wouldn't use this but most people aren't going to pay $2.50 for a song from Sprint either...
Why let the carriers make any money when they've been stealing from us for years? I've got over 2,000 songs in my iTunes Library. If they want to pay me $2.50 per song for each of them, I'll sign up for a two year contract and pay them to move my songs to my phone. :mad: Otherwise, I expect to be able to sync my phone with my computer and with no interference from my carrier.

aegisdesign

Nov 8, 2005, 10:19 PM

Demon Hunter

Nov 8, 2005, 10:24 PM

Then go take a look at the new standard Verizon interface on their most recent offerings from LG and Samsung. If Verizon gets the V3c (which seems highly likely, based on what I've been reading on other sites), that's the UI it will have. Verizon's interface simplifies some things, but those ever-present red bars -- ugh.

It would just be wrong if they weren't shoving their corporate color scheme down your throat every time you use the phone. :rolleyes:

Demon Hunter

Nov 8, 2005, 10:27 PM

Well, I am glad that iTunes is getting on more phones, I just wish it was this one! :eek:
http://www.mobilewhack.com/images/nokia_8800_cell_phone_1.jpg

Now that is drool worthy, if it is anything like the previous experiences I have had with Nokia

Yeah that looks pretty amazing, but... how much? $800+?

Be very very careful here, the first phone to have Bluetooth v2.0 is the SE K750i; take a look for it on the bluetooth.org qaulification pages, and click on the "i" for information in a PDF format.

Well... that's cool... but we just get nothing in the States. I looked up a review and it said it was a European release.

The whole industry is a bunch of !@#$. Why can't there just be a global market for phones instead of all this licensing/rebranding crap.

Flynnstone

Nov 8, 2005, 11:31 PM

Demon Hunter

Nov 9, 2005, 12:00 AM

Misplaced Mage

Nov 9, 2005, 01:37 AM

Why let the carriers make any money when they've been stealing from us for years? I've got over 2,000 songs in my iTunes Library. If they want to pay me $2.50 per song for each of them, I'll sign up for a two year contract and pay them to move my songs to my phone. :mad: Otherwise, I expect to be able to sync my phone with my computer and with no interference from my carrier.None of the carriers are forcing you to use their services -- and that's what you're really buying from them. The cell phone is useless without the service of some carrier's network. It's the old RAZR (couldn't resist :D) and RAZR-blades arrangement all over again, and the carriers are doing what they can to maximize the sales of airtime.

Direct file transfer between a phone and a computer without the use of a carrier's network represent a revenue leak that some carriers are more like to plug than others. If you don't like one carrier's stance on phone features, fine, vote with your dollars, go to another carrier, and tell the one you're leaving the reason for your actions. The market clearly is bearing what the carriers are demanding today, giving them little incentive to change until they see otherwise.

sethypoo

Nov 9, 2005, 02:09 AM

Misplaced Mage

Nov 9, 2005, 02:13 AM

aaahhh crap ... I just got a RAZR V3.
Actually the user interface is very crappy! I have a Sony Ericcson T616 and it has a much better UI. The people that design the UI on the Razr should be beaten with PCs !

Apple needs to make a deal with Motorola (or others), take the hardware platform of the Razr and put a decent UI like an iPod or OS X.Isn't it amazing how corporations with billions of dollars floating around can be so incredibly stupid?Given how some of the carriers are beginning to insist on their own, private user interfaces for branding and simplification of customer support (*hack*Verizon*cough*), I can't see an Apple-designed phone UI flying unless
One of the major carriers hires Apple to do a user interface for all their phones
Apple becomes a MVNO (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MVNO)
Both approaches have pros and cons. The first possibility could result in the same halo effect for Apple as the iPod as large numbers of users got used to the Apple way of doing things (big pro). It would also mean the carrier sharing its branding with Apple, and being able to at least partially dictate UI features (con). Not to mention joint ownership of any new intellectual property regarding the UI, which could become very messy if the relationship became strained (con).

The second possibility would allow Apple to do what it likes without having to deal with a network partner except as a supplier (big pro). It would also mean that Apple would be starting as yet another niche player in another market (con). And then where does Apple make its money? The big carriers and MNVOs subsidize phone purchases by users in the interests of selling more air time, or unique content. Apple traditionally makes the majority of its profits on the hardware it sells (con).

I don't see the corporations as stupid, necessarily, but rather playing rather high-stakes games of poker. They never show us or their competitors their entire hand at any given time, and will bluff (products are announced or rumored, but never appear for various reasons), stall (the F.U.D. factor of early announcements), and carry out their own skunkworks development programs (some of which never see the light of day). The objective is always to win, but sometimes you have to be conservative and observe your competitors' play just to stay in the game.

Misplaced Mage

Nov 9, 2005, 02:16 AM

Has anyone else noticed horrible battery life on their V3 Razr's? I didn't properly "condition" the battery which is why I blame myself for it's horrible battery life, but has anyone who properly conditioned their battery noticed a lack of standby time?If you want a phone with a volume (length x width x height, not amplitude!) that's roughly half that of its major competition, you have to be willing to give up some of that space to things other than the battery, like the radio, the display, the keypad, the speakerphone, the antenna, etc. TANSTAAFL :D

Or there could be something wrong with the phone, like a bad connection between the radio and the antenna causing it to consume more power to maintain a link with the network. Even in standby, a cell phone has to transmit periodically to keep the network aware of its status, register with a new base station will moving, etc. Or you're hitting keys accidentally and turning the backlights on all the time. Or the carrier recently did work on your local basestation, changing its coverage. Or you have Bluetooth turned on (same situation as the network in miniature -- the Bluetooth module keeps waking up and looking for devices it's paired with). Lots of possiblities other than the battery being bad.

sjo

Nov 9, 2005, 02:30 AM

One more thing about phones is that they never never never offer updates to there firmware.

The love to release the same or simlar hardware, with new software, and make you pay a whole bunch more for the same phone. I really wish that would offer software updates for your $400 phone.

Almost all of them do offer firmware updates, you might not have noticed it if you haven't had your phone repaired or never checked the firmware after the repair. Usually you can get the new firmware from a repair shop simply by demanding it, at least while your phone is under guarantee.

Be sure to back up your data though, your contact and other info might be erased when the new firmware is installed.

Usually you won't get new applications though just like you won't get new applications with your osx/windows patches. You can get new software for your $400 phone the same way you get new software for your computer, there's plenty of sites offering cell phone software for downloading and/or buying.

BRLawyer

Nov 9, 2005, 03:35 AM

I think Samsung and Nokia phones are disappointing.

Charges to receive SMSs in the U.S.? Gosh, I didn't know Bush's land was so far behind the rest of the world...and I am not talking only about "developed" countries...every country with an open mobile market NEVER charges for received SMSs...no wonder you have such crappy phones and dismal networks...amazing.

JesterJJZ

Nov 9, 2005, 03:36 AM

the question should be when will they support verizon so i can get me one.

Verizon has confirmed that they will get RAZRs afther Thanksgiving sometime. Just wonder if we'll get the iTunes?

Xapplimatic

Nov 9, 2005, 05:46 AM

Add the new mobile Safari software for a REAL web browsing experience on a cell phone instead of Motorola's custom crapware for crapware "mobile only" websites, and I'll be impressed enough to bother ditching my ages old still outlived its successor Sony Ericson POS that strangely didn't get stomped about 50 times under my boot, driven over with my truck and turned in for an insurance claim on the phone that replaced it anyways... (!)

glowingstar

Nov 9, 2005, 06:55 AM

no, not the razr.....THIS one:

http://www.vodafone.jp/english/products/model_3G/v803t/index.html

http://www.vodafone.jp/english/products/model_3G/v803t/images/803t_main.jpg

the control panel on the top begs to be round! it's even got a 2.26 megapixel camera. only US$150!!! with a USB charger, you can just buy it here in japan and take it to the states without having to worry about power converters and all. seems that the number of songs is limited by the capacity of the miniSD card.

on the video advert in the vodafone shop in shibuya, they even show how you can transfer songs from the itunes library! (the folders themselves, not itunes itself).

=-----------------------------=

(speaking of shibuya and adverts, i have a couple of unopened HACHIKO iPod cases [the ones you can only get at the shibuya, tokyo apple store]. asking US$100. they fit 1st through 4th generation ipods. sorry for the blatant advert. email tommy @ glowstar.com if ur interested. the end!) :p

Platform

Nov 9, 2005, 08:12 AM

Well nice phone......but no info....song capacity what countries iTunes come in and price:eek: :eek: :mad:

oober_freak

Nov 9, 2005, 09:01 AM

There are upsides and downsides to the US cell phone situation. On the upside (at least vs most the rest of the world), a cell phone is treated the same as any other phone for anyone calling it. We don't pay inflated charges to call a cell phone. Granted, most cell plans charge minutes for incoming calls (not mine, however), but for those of us with free incoming calls, it means that neither side is paying anything extra because one party is on a cell phone. It's quite nice that way. I also have unlimited SMS, so I guess it depends on your provider/plan.

I do realize, however, that our pay as you go plans and locked phones suck :-)

Here in India, long distance cell phone rates on particular plans are rupee 1/min. That's like 2 cents per minute for calling a place 1500 miles away :)

The local call rates to all fixed/cellular phones are like 50 paise/min.. that's a cent a minute :D

And no, it's not in Bombay. The rural/semi-urban areas are growing a LOT faster than the urban areas.

But, I like the subsidised cell phones the companies provide in the US.

I had a small question for all cell phone companies.. why can't you produce cell phones without cameras?
I mean they can sell a camera as well as a non-camera model of the same phone, can't they? I just hate cell phone cameras..

ftaok

Nov 9, 2005, 09:21 AM

I had a small question for all cell phone companies.. why can't you produce cell phones without cameras?
I mean they can sell a camera as well as a non-camera model of the same phone, can't they? I just hate cell phone cameras..
Because that's what the cell phone service providers want. Ultimately, the Cingulars, T-Mobiles, Verizons of the world are the ones buying the phones (not the end user). They want camera phones so that people can spend more money using their networks.

And of course, the cell phone manufacturers are more than happy to oblige since they can charge more for a phone with a camera than one without.

In the end, the user is the one with less options. It's pretty hard to find a phone without a camera that isn't anything but an entry-level phone.

I'm still hanging onto my Moto v60i because it's a great "phone". Sound clarity is excellent and it holds a great signal.

oober_freak

Nov 9, 2005, 10:28 AM

Because that's what the cell phone service providers want. Ultimately, the Cingulars, T-Mobiles, Verizons of the world are the ones buying the phones (not the end user). They want camera phones so that people can spend more money using their networks.

And of course, the cell phone manufacturers are more than happy to oblige since they can charge more for a phone with a camera than one without.

In the end, the user is the one with less options. It's pretty hard to find a phone without a camera that isn't anything but an entry-level phone.

I'm still hanging onto my Moto v60i because it's a great "phone". Sound clarity is excellent and it holds a great signal.

But in many countries, the companies sell the phones directly to you. Here, Nokia/Samsung/SE/Motorola sell their stuff directly through their showrooms..

I guess Steve Jobs needs to make an iPhone :P

cwtnospam

Nov 9, 2005, 11:17 AM

Direct file transfer between a phone and a computer without the use of a carrier's network represent a revenue leak that some carriers are more like to plug than others. If you don't like one carrier's stance on phone features, fine, vote with your dollars, go to another carrier, and tell the one you're leaving the reason for your actions.
I intend to do that, and encourage other Verizon customers to switch as well. I don't care how good their service is, when a company tries to steal from you, it's time to stop doing business with them. Direct file transfer is NOT a revenue leak. It is a right, and trying to block that right for unwarranted gain is theft.

pawnstar

Nov 9, 2005, 11:36 AM

Moto have got another iTunes phone in the pipline

http://www.mobilegamefaqs.com/newsimgs/moto_SLVR_091105_lrg.jpg

looks better, I think - dosen't uses headphone cables - bluetooth to connect the headphones

http://www.mobilegamefaqs.com/newsstory.php?id=262

Mr Maui

Nov 9, 2005, 12:23 PM

I must say that I still like my Sony Ericsson T68i and would likely use it forever if it weren't for the fact that Cingular is no longer supporting the AT&T phones and the service is starting to go down the tubes since Cingular took over AT&T Wireless. Never had a problem till Sinkular came in. :(

radio893fm

Nov 9, 2005, 01:52 PM

Very nice phone, but I'm definitely waiting for an Apple-branded Smart Phone.

Yes... it will SCRATCH easily, cost U$2000 and do nothing but play music and be a mediocre phone... but it will be very beautiful!!!

radio893fm

Nov 9, 2005, 01:59 PM

I have a nice digital camera.
I have an iPod.
I want a good, clear, long lasting, easy to sync, digital phone. If I wanted a little computer I would get a Treo or similar. If I wanted to type with my thumbs I would get psychological help or a blackberry. ;)

And I guess you have a truck to carry all those stuff.

I would like to carry only one thing... small enough to fit in my pocket, that won't scratch by looking at it=durable, and that has all the stuff you mentioned above.

The best phone I have ever used: Sony Ericsson T616... but I am looking at the Sony Ericsson W900 and think its gonna be the next one!!!

Lynxpro

Nov 9, 2005, 03:03 PM

Charges to receive SMSs in the U.S.? Gosh, I didn't know Bush's land was so far behind the rest of the world....

Hey now, get off your high horse. Its not like Switzerland has landed anything on the moon...'cept maybe hidden Nazi gold.

Lynxpro

Nov 9, 2005, 03:05 PM

no, not the razr.....THIS one:

I must say that I still like my Sony Ericsson T68i and would likely use it forever if it weren't for the fact that Cingular is no longer supporting the AT&T phones and the service is starting to go down the tubes since Cingular took over AT&T Wireless. Never had a problem till Sinkular came in. :(

Oh how I wish Vodafone would've bought out AT&T Wireless instead of SBC, err, I mean, Cingular.

Tupring

Nov 9, 2005, 03:22 PM

No way. I want my cell phone to be good at one thing - calls. And verizon is the best for that (at least all the places I've lived). All the other features - BT, itunes, cameras, nice design, etc. - are cute, but I'd never give up the best network (and hence the most clear and reliable calling) for something with all the bells and whistles that I won't be able to use when I need it.

So I hope verizon does get on board, but I'm sure as heck not leaving them just to have the latest must-have phone.You could always get the phone and unlock it.

cwtnospam

Nov 9, 2005, 03:32 PM

Charges to receive SMSs in the U.S.? Gosh, I didn't know Bush's land was so far behind the rest of the world...and I am not talking only about "developed" countries....Yes, and with wackos pushing non-science like "Intelligent Design" into the science curriculum, it isn't likely that we'll be seeing much technical progress in the future. :(

M. Johansson

Nov 9, 2005, 03:36 PM

Aw goddamn. I hate TransFlash/MicroSD. A maximum storage limit of 512MB doesn't cut it for a music phone. What's the point of an even tinier memory card than SD? SD is super tiny, availiable in 2GB variant, and cheap.

MacTruck

Nov 9, 2005, 04:55 PM

man ! screw the stupid retarded cameras!!!!! lose them !

Amen. If it aint at least 3 megapixel its worthless.

Now what is up with this slow interface? My 5 yr old nokia was super fast now I have to wait for menus? I love my razor, but only cause its small and looks cool. Every feature has problems.

- Slow interface
- camera sucks
- speaker phone not loud enough
- Contacts menu is retarded. Can only put one phone number per person.
- Bluetooth technology will be looked upon as the worst wireless tech in history but this will only be said once its replaced.
- Reception reception reception

My old analog nokia 8800 was the best phone ever. I am thinking of becoming a reverse switcher.

Tupring

Nov 9, 2005, 05:25 PM

Imagine they charged you for incoming e-mail...
T-Mobile does if you send an email to your phone.

Demon Hunter

Nov 9, 2005, 05:32 PM

I intend to do that, and encourage other Verizon customers to switch as well. I don't care how good their service is, when a company tries to steal from you, it's time to stop doing business with them. Direct file transfer is NOT a revenue leak. It is a right, and trying to block that right for unwarranted gain is theft.

I totally agree. Everyone chants "the network! the network!" like they're brainwashed. I bet Verizon doesn't even own the satelites. :rolleyes:

- Bluetooth technology will be looked upon as the worst wireless tech in history but this will only be said once its replaced.

Why all the hate for Bluetooth? It has a long way to go, but it does its job well...

Yes, and with wackos pushing non-science like "Intelligent Design" into the science curriculum, it isn't likely that we'll be seeing much technical progress in the future.

Sorry, not everyone is a technocrat. Education is about the exchange of ideas and learning, not restricting curriculum to what you believe is "fact."

afields

Nov 9, 2005, 05:50 PM

does this have edge?

Misplaced Mage

Nov 9, 2005, 07:10 PM

Verizon has confirmed that they will get RAZRs afther Thanksgiving sometime. Just wonder if we'll get the iTunes?No, at least not soon. Motorola's CDMA phones have little in common with their GSM counterparts under the skin of the housing and user interface. It'll be a complete rewrite, assuming it shows up at all. After all, Verizon already has a music store of its own in the works (http://informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=164904347).

bathysphere

Nov 9, 2005, 07:11 PM

Sorry, not everyone is a technocrat. Education is about the exchange of ideas and learning, not restricting curriculum to what you believe is "fact."

to take this even further off topic... while the above statement is true, it ignores the simple fact that intelligent design is not science, and has no place in a science class. sure it's a theory, but not a scientific theory. plus, they already teach intelligent design in every u.s. state that i'm aware of, in catholic schools. sure, scientific symbology has its own problems, and those problems should be discussed and alternate ideology should probably be acknowledged, it does no one any favors to discuss theology as a competitive scientific theory.

anyway, this phone looks nice, it seems to correct alot of the shortcomings of the original razr phone, i just wish motorola would re-do their interface, moving from a sony ericsson to the motorola interface is rather depressing. i wonder if the camera will be ccd or cmos, anyone know (or did i overlook that...)?

Tupring

Nov 9, 2005, 07:30 PM

Misplaced Mage

Nov 9, 2005, 07:57 PM

You could always get the phone and unlock it.Not that simple with CDMA phones in North America, I'm afraid, and getting more complicated by the day. First, CDMA phones for the North American market don't use RUIM cards (the CDMA version of a SIM card). Second, Verizon's going to its own, BREW-based user interface, and won't buy phones without it implemented from now on. Sure, you can reprogram the phone with a firmware load for a competitor like AllTel and hack the configuration tables to enable OS-supported features. But Verizon's BREW-based UI can be reprogrammed remotely, i.e., they have the ability to add new features (or replace or remove old ones) without a traditional firmware update at a dealer. And if certain desired features are in the UI code instead of the OS, you're screwed because BREW files are encrypted and digitally signed to the phone they're downloaded to, and won't run on another phone if transfered.

BREW was designed with carriers in mind by Qualcomm, especially the cryptographic features in v2.0 and later.

Misplaced Mage

Nov 9, 2005, 08:00 PM

...anyway, this phone looks nice, it seems to correct alot of the shortcomings of the original razr phone, i just wish motorola would re-do their interface, moving from a sony ericsson to the motorola interface is rather depressing. i wonder if the camera will be ccd or cmos, anyone know (or did i overlook that...)?Most cell phone cameras are CMOS. A CMOS imager IC is generally smaller and less expensive than a CCD, and readily works at the voltages the rest of the circuitry in the phone operates at. But there are a few CCD ones.

Misplaced Mage

Nov 9, 2005, 08:01 PM

I intend to do that, and encourage other Verizon customers to switch as well. I don't care how good their service is, when a company tries to steal from you, it's time to stop doing business with them. Direct file transfer is NOT a revenue leak. It is a right, and trying to block that right for unwarranted gain is theft.The carrier could just as easily say that you're in violation of the terms of services in the contract you signed by altering the functionality of the phone as it is shipped from the phone manufacturer. E.g., Verizon's TOS (http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/globalText?textName=CUSTOMER_AGREEMENT&jspName=footer/customerAgreement.jsp&textName=CUSTOMER_AGREEMENT&jspName=footer/customerAgreement.jsp), especially the, "Our Rights To Limit Or End Service Or This Agreement, part (i)" section.

Personally, I agree with you. Unless I'm leasing the hardware from the carrier, I should be allowed to do what I will with it provided that doing so doesn't impact the carrier's ability to function (e.g., souping up the transmitter so I can reach a base station 100 miles away will adversely impact the function of the cell whose base station is 100 feet away from me). In practice, it's sometimes been like trying to run Windows on a Macintosh: sure it can be done, but it's a bit of a kludge (especially on non-Intel Macs) and don't expect Apple to support it.

SPUY767

Nov 10, 2005, 07:14 AM

This is how it should have been from the beginning. I have a friend who is an engineer at Moto. He told me all through the ROKR project that they were, "Sticking it in the pooper." That's a direct quote. When I asked him why they didn't use the bitchin' RAZR chassis, he said that he got the vibe that they wanted a phone that was shaped more like the iPod; they failed miserably if that is the case. I don't understand how everyone is blaming Apple for the ROKR's supreme crappiness. All apple did was impose a 100 Song Limit, and honestly, do you really need to carry more than 10 CD's worth of music on your effing cell phone at once. So I guess Moto has made right on the music phone at last.

SPUY767

Nov 10, 2005, 07:32 AM

this is a nice phone from B&O which is very simple... Apple could get some inspiration here. I havn't got one yet because it is expensive..

http://www.bang-olufsen.com/web2/systems/product.asp?section=systems&sub=tp&prodid=562

I used to joke that I was so behind the times, With cell phones mind you, not computers, that I have a rotary cell phone. Now it appears that I really could have a rotary cell phone.

On another note, Apple would NEVER get inspiration from someting like this. It's not a natural design. Imagine, if you will, attempting to dial this bitch while driving. You'd be staring at the keys and wrap your prius around a parking meter. The one recurring theme of Apple design is the natural feel of it. Dialing a phone with the keys in a circle is nowhere close to natural. Any cell phone that apple designs will have some take on the classic 3x4 layout. That is unless they invent some device that reads your mind so you don't even have to dial the number, just think it.

ftaok

Nov 10, 2005, 07:38 AM

All apple did was impose a 100 Song Limit, and honestly, do you really need to carry more than 10 CD's worth of music on your effing cell phone at once.Have you read through this (and other ROKR threads)? The 100 song limit is one of the top complaints against the ROKR. It's been a major deal breaker for many potential ROKR buyers.

ft

SPUY767

Nov 10, 2005, 08:23 AM

Have you read through this (and other ROKR threads)? The 100 song limit is one of the top complaints against the ROKR. It's been a major deal breaker for many potential ROKR buyers.

ft

I know that. It's pissing and moaning. NO COMPANY, not Apple, not Motorola, not IBM, not Dell is going to allow something to cannibalize one of their biggest selling products. Whiney people make me want to rip my own face off. If they want an iPod, buy an iPod, if they want a phone buy a phone. People bitching, because Moto has provided them with a phone that plays music makes me want to vomit. RORK is what, 400$ on its own, If you try to cram a full blown iPod into the phone, you're looking at a 600$ phone. You should introduce me to someone who is whining that their ROKR only holds 100 songs. i'd like the punch them in the face.

ftaok

Nov 10, 2005, 08:34 AM

I know that. It's pissing and moaning. NO COMPANY, not Apple, not Motorola, not IBM, not Dell is going to allow something to cannibalize one of their biggest selling products. Hell, let's cry about it shall we. The 1 Gig Nano only holds 250 songs on average. Crying that a PHONE, and freaking phone only holds half that is ridiculous. If they want an iPod, buy an iPod, if they want a phone buy a phone. People bitching, because Moto has provided them with a phone that plays music makes me want to vomit. RORK is what, 400$ on its own, If you try to cram a full blown iPod into the phone, you're looking at a 600$ phone. You should introduce me to someone who is whining that their ROKR only holds 100 songs. i'd like the punch them in the face.
Dude, relax. It's only 8:30am (at least it is here) ;)

If Apple wanted to protect their own products, then why license the software in the first place? If they want their software on phones, then let the market dictate what the feature set should be. 100 songs isn't an issue right now, since 512MB seems to be the current limit. However, 1GB cards are coming. Also, what if you have lots of short clips? 100 clips could come out to 50MB or so. Anyways, my point is that if Apple really wanted to anything from canibalizing their own sales, then they shouldn't have signed up in the first place.

Personally, I have no use for a music playing cell phone, but other people want them. Who's to say their opinion is any less legit than mine (or yours).

ft

thequicksilver

Nov 10, 2005, 09:35 AM

Why on earth didn't they announce this back in September? They would have got so much more publicity and so much more customer satisfaction by, you know, bundling iTunes with a phone people actually want. It's not rocket science… is it?

Great that it's coming now, but that it's taken a major PR blunder before this came is quite shocking.

Tupring

Nov 10, 2005, 12:47 PM

Charges to receive SMSs in the U.S.? Gosh, I didn't know Bush's land was so far behind the rest of the world...and I am not talking only about "developed" countries...every country with an open mobile market NEVER charges for received SMSs...no wonder you have such crappy phones and dismal networks...amazing.Yeah, I have T-Mobile and I bought a USB data cable for my phone, but the software on the phone is altered by T-Mobile to not work with the USB software, so it is worthless :mad:

gustavo.rocha

Nov 10, 2005, 01:30 PM

I know that. It's pissing and moaning. NO COMPANY, not Apple, not Motorola, not IBM, not Dell is going to allow something to cannibalize one of their biggest selling products. Whiney people make me want to rip my own face off. If they want an iPod, buy an iPod, if they want a phone buy a phone. People bitching, because Moto has provided them with a phone that plays music makes me want to vomit. RORK is what, 400$ on its own, If you try to cram a full blown iPod into the phone, you're looking at a 600$ phone. You should introduce me to someone who is whining that their ROKR only holds 100 songs. i'd like the punch them in the face.

Well it's fun to watch these comments, if not simply disappointing. It's obvious no company will cannibalise one of their most selling products. Neither am i to comment on the kind of reactions whiny people cause on you. It's just plainly fun that Motorola, the same that builds ROKR, is selling right now an UMTS (WCDMA) phone (E1000), video-call capable, hot-swap flash memory card capable, plays MP3 music, has an 1.2Mpxl camera, and is sold at about 40€ (about 50$) under fidelisation promotions from certain operators accross Europe. With no contract it costs about 300-350€ depending on local vendor promotions. Probably some similar product exists for the U.S. market... or maybe not (lol).
About the 600$ phones... Well they aren't just an iPod plus a mobile phone. They tend to be more and more like tiny computers (tiny refers only to the physical dimensions), as Wireless-lan support (several new NOKIA phones), VOIP (Nokia E70), general Smartphone functionality (most of the new Nokia's, many Samsungs, several Sony-Erricssons, and many other products, some of them unfortunately windows based) are getting each time more frequent.
You would say, perhaps, they lack the real power of the devices they try to replace through this convergence process. Not realy. Samsung has announced 8Mpxl cameras on their newest phones, wifi on Nokias is 802.11g, encrypted, email is already more advanced on the smartphone market than in its computer counterpart (push-mail for instance).

Last but not least, just to avoid more people bitting their own tongs, i should remind that power-books are being pre-announced to be thinner and feature a camera. Mobile phones architectures are tending to be, mostly (if not all) ARM9 processor based. Mobile operating systems (Symbian, Windows-mobile, Linux, Palm) are tending to be mostly hardware compatible. Some of the most effective processor chips in this area are being designed by Intel, under a not much different idea of their Centrino mobile technology. Which itself (in one or the other flavor) is one of the most likely architectures to be used on powerbooks... Has anyone already spoke about convergence? ;)

Have fun...

ack_mac

Nov 10, 2005, 01:59 PM

Well it's fun to watch these comments, if not simply disappointing. It's obvious no company will cannibalise one of their most selling products. Neither am i to comment on the kind of reactions whiny people cause on you. It's just plainly fun that Motorola, the same that builds ROKR, is selling right now an UMTS (WCDMA) phone (E1000), video-call capable, hot-swap flash memory card capable, plays MP3 music, has an 1.2Mpxl camera, and is sold at about 40€ (about 50$) under fidelisation promotions from certain operators accross Europe. With no contract it costs about 300-350€ depending on local vendor promotions. Probably some similar product exists for the U.S. market... or maybe not (lol).
About the 600$ phones... Well they aren't just an iPod plus a mobile phone. They tend to be more and more like tiny computers (tiny refers only to the physical dimensions), as Wireless-lan support (several new NOKIA phones), VOIP (Nokia E70), general Smartphone functionality (most of the new Nokia's, many Samsungs, several Sony-Erricssons, and many other products, some of them unfortunately windows based) are getting each time more frequent.
You would say, perhaps, they lack the real power of the devices they try to replace through this convergence process. Not realy. Samsung has announced 8Mpxl cameras on their newest phones, wifi on Nokias is 802.11g, encrypted, email is already more advanced on the smartphone market than in its computer counterpart (push-mail for instance).

Last but not least, just to avoid more people bitting their own tongs, i should remind that power-books are being pre-announced to be thinner and feature a camera. Mobile phones architectures are tending to be, mostly (if not all) ARM9 processor based. Mobile operating systems (Symbian, Windows-mobile, Linux, Palm) are tending to be mostly hardware compatible. Some of the most effective processor chips in this area are being designed by Intel, under a not much different idea of their Centrino mobile technology. Which itself (in one or the other flavor) is one of the most likely architectures to be used on powerbooks... Has anyone already spoke about convergence? ;)

Have fun...

Would they really be cannibalizing though? Yes maybe Apple would see sales of iPod drop a little, but they would also be selling a ton more songs.. In theory 100 songs seems like alot, but I can tell from having owned a 128MB Mp3 player that it is not.. I also think that people will still continue to buy iPods unless the phone was basically an Apple iPod with complete phone capabilities...

highpass

Nov 10, 2005, 02:10 PM

Well, I am glad that iTunes is getting on more phones, I just wish it was this one! :eek:
http://www.mobilewhack.com/images/nokia_8800_cell_phone_1.jpg

Now that is drool worthy, if it is anything like the previous experiences I have had with Nokia

i have this phone, and whilst its indeed lovely to both look at and use, i've already sent it back for repairs TWICE. the first time it refused to register the charger, either via a standard jack or in the cradle, and the power button didnt work. upon getting it back, the bloody thing would turn off whenever it felt like it, regardless of which battery was in use, or how fully charged it was.

What i found nice, though, is that nokia have a dedicated support line -purely- for this phone, with 24 months free support. they bloody better do too, at the price!

/edit; on a side note, the thing weighs more than a telephone box.

cwtnospam

Nov 10, 2005, 05:46 PM

The carrier could just as easily say that you're in violation of the terms of services in the contract you signed by altering the functionality of the phone as it is shipped from the phone manufacturer. E.g., Verizon's TOS (http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/globalText?textName=CUSTOMER_AGREEMENT&jspName=footer/customerAgreement.jsp&textName=CUSTOMER_AGREEMENT&jspName=footer/customerAgreement.jsp), especially the, "Our Rights To Limit Or End Service Or This Agreement, part (i)" section.
They could, if I were to sign another contract. As it is, my current contract ends on December 2, and I'm definitely getting another carrier. No phone is of any use if the carrier has decided that it's ok for them to steal from you as Verizon has done.

remingtonhill

Nov 10, 2005, 10:34 PM

They could, if I were to sign another contract. As it is, my current contract ends on December 2, and I'm definitely getting another carrier. No phone is of any use if the carrier has decided that it's ok for them to steal from you as Verizon has done.

I worked in sales and then customer care for Airtouch Cellular (which was bought by Verizon). I quit Verizon around the time they started forcing customers to accept a new 2 year service agreement simply for changing their calling plan (just regular plans mind you, not just special promotional plans).

I always felt that you should keep customers by providing excellent service at a reasonable fair price. Not by forcing customers into a long term contract. Apparently the same management that preached the importance of providing quality customer service felt differently, ironically.

jbrown

Nov 11, 2005, 03:45 AM

Any chance of the existing Razar being upgrades ( firmware upgrade ) so it can use iTunes?

EricNau

Nov 11, 2005, 03:57 AM

Any chance of the existing Razar being upgrades ( firmware upgrade ) so it can use iTunes?

slim to none (I don't even think it's possible.)

Chip NoVaMac

Nov 13, 2005, 09:45 AM

Really cool looking phone.

Actually, the question is: When will Verizon get on board. I'm willing to switch to another carrier to get iTunes and have told them so. The more people that are willing to do that, the more likely they will offer the phone.

Maybe when Sprint does.:(

jderosa05

Nov 15, 2005, 12:05 AM

does anyone have this phone yet, i cant get itunes to work or i just dont know how. was wondering if anyone could help :)

Misplaced Mage

Nov 15, 2005, 01:07 AM

Actually, the question is: When will Verizon get on board. I'm willing to switch to another carrier to get iTunes and have told them so. The more people that are willing to do that, the more likely they will offer the phone.Maybe when Sprint does.:(Since Sprint is already one of the first carriers out of the gate with their own music store (http://musicstore.sprint.com), I'm not holding my breath.

Misplaced Mage

Nov 15, 2005, 01:18 AM

Any chance of the existing Razar being upgrades ( firmware upgrade ) so it can use iTunes?slim to none (I don't even think it's possible.)Not impossible, as those who upflashed a V300 to a V600 in functionality can attest, but without knowing exactly what hardware and OS version are in the phone it'd be a gamble. If the new phone has more memory than the original RAZR, or it uses NAND flash instead of NOR flash (or vice versa), or the processor core is different, or the internal power management system is different, you'd be doomed to failure. Odds are high you'd brick the phone, but it will take either a Motorola engineer coming right out and saying it or someone willing to take the risk once a firmware file gets out into the wild.

nagusjim

Mar 10, 2006, 04:06 PM

Badandy

Mar 10, 2006, 10:07 PM

I can't beleive the crap cell phone carriers in the US make their customers put up with - cripped phones from Verizon, charges to receive SMS messages, it's no wonder the industry in the US is so far behind the rest of the world...

Are you joking? I know the US lags behind in mobile phones, but our industry in general? Besides being the richest country in the world and the world's only superpower, I guess we are so inferior to others...

roxnadz

Mar 11, 2006, 01:16 PM

Cingular is out of stock on all three colors of the RAZR v3. One can hope that this means they are FINALLY planning to release the v3i. My contract with Verizon is up in two weeks and I'm itching to fire them. here's hoping....

Hah. You think Verizon is bad, you're gonna have a helluva time with Stinkular. Two months to fix my SMS plan, two more months to fix my international calling plan, and I don't even pay the bill.

I'd avoid Stinkular at all costs.

applemacstud

Mar 11, 2006, 04:56 PM

Cingular is out of stock on all three colors of the RAZR v3. One can hope that this means they are FINALLY planning to release the v3i. My contract with Verizon is up in two weeks and I'm itching to fire them. here's hoping....

The reason these phones are out of stock is because they were pulled due to a defect. you can read about it here:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/chi-0603100208mar10,1,6363568.story?coll=chi-business-hed

mcmillan

Mar 11, 2006, 07:30 PM

If I owned a RAZR V3i I would probably breake it (it's too thin) :p ... I'm sitcking to my 2 years old Nokia 3410... it still works like a charm.
http://www.cellinkgy.com/images/nokia3410_big.gif

Chip NoVaMac

Mar 12, 2006, 01:21 AM

Are you joking? I know the US lags behind in mobile phones, but our industry in general? Besides being the richest country in the world and the world's only superpower, I guess we are so inferior to others...

Comments like yours shows why we are viewed as the "ugly Americans".

In Europe GSM is is the standard that is used. The SIM card is all that is needed for a cell phone to be used across borders.

I amy be wrong, but IIRC in Europe i coming calls are charged to the one making the call. So who is the "super power"?

At the risk of moving this to the Political Forum, how can the US as the biggest "debtor" nation be considered a "super power"?

The US$ is in the tank compared to most currencies. When a 99 cent value meal at McDonald's costs $1.75US - there are problems in our economy.

The issue is that the laws we have on telecommunications in general support making the rich richer. Just look at news reports about the deregulation of the electric companies. We were told that it would lead to lower rates.

Just look at news reports about the DC and MD area; and you will see 30% to 75% increases in the electric bill.

After spending a week in Reykjavik and London, two weeks ago - I think I can provide a different look at the US superiority over other nations.

The mass transit in both Iceland and London was cleaner, newer, and much more on time than what I have seen in SF, DC, or Chicago.

You need to look at the fact that we are not the only "super power" any more. China is now a country to be recognized.

Super power does no longer mean the one that has the most nukes to end life as we know it.

It is time for us to realize that foreign investment in our ports (eeek, this coming from a liberal-conservative) or other businesses is not a bad thing at this point in time.

We lag in cellphone regulations in that why should I pay for incoming calls that I do not need or want. Or that I can not take my cellphone in most any other country? Without having just the "right" phone or paying higher fees?

In the end we are not the greatest nation, just the most arrogant nation on earth.

Chip NoVaMac

Mar 12, 2006, 01:34 AM

Never mind that in Iceland, it does not matter about the marital status of of woman with a child.

That horns seem to be missing from the cars. That on Friday and Saturday nights, the only cars you see on the road are taxis. No concerns about drunk drivers.

That a "super power" status means you are concerned on how you are perceived both socially and economically.

Badandy

Mar 12, 2006, 06:11 PM

Comments like yours shows why we are viewed as the "ugly Americans".

Ah yes, me an my shananigans.

I amy be wrong, but IIRC in Europe i coming calls are charged to the one making the call. So who is the "super power"?

That makes sense. I guess we should define superpower as who incoming calls are charged to. It is all clear to me now...

At the risk of moving this to the Political Forum, how can the US as the biggest "debtor" nation be considered a "super power"?

Good point. While that is true, I consider us a "super power" based on our military might (the best military in the world, albeit not the largest or best kill ratio) and of our influence in foreign affairs and the world's financial organizations. Not to mention our per capita GDP is $12,000 higher than any other country in the world.

The US$ is in the tank compared to most currencies. When a 99 cent value meal at McDonald's costs $1.75US - there are problems in our economy.

My McDonald's 99 cent value meals cost 99 cents. Oh, and our currency is rebounding pretty quickly.

The issue is that the laws we have on telecommunications in general support making the rich richer.

Just like everything else in the country I presume? Dang rich people, we should just take all their money and redistribute it...wait, we do, we have a graduated income tax and plethora of others that are aimed to do just that.

Just look at news reports about the deregulation of the electric companies. We were told that it would lead to lower rates.

Me, in all my conservative/libertarian splendor happen to believe that businesses and our nation are better off with less government involvement. But the energy companies are in a predicament. However uninvolved the government tries to be, there are subsidies and taxes on the industry in general. Did you know that if there were no subsidies on hydroelectric power, or the power industry in general, we would have electricity bills 2x as high as they are now? But the government keeps them artificially low. So even if it goes up 30-50%, it is still lower than it should be based purely on economics. It's not these "evil industries" (please don't bring up Enron, I'm sick of people trying to use that as a characterization of every large company).

After spending a week in Reykjavik and London, two weeks ago - I think I can provide a different look at the US superiority over other nations.

The mass transit in both Iceland and London was cleaner, newer, and much more on time than what I have seen in SF, DC, or Chicago.

Yes, the old mass transit arguement. Superiority isn't to be measured in mass transit, it is a completely different situation. Are we supposed to have the same system considering that our nation is bigger, our population is more spread out meaning we don't have the same population density as in London (which I, too, have visited)? Everything is so close in Europe they can use mass transit effeciently and it saves people money, but in the U.S. (most of it) it is just not viable.

You need to look at the fact that we are not the only "super power" any more. China is now a country to be recognized.

Super power does no longer mean the one that has the most nukes to end life as we know it.

China is a world power, not a super power. They will become one, or they might already be edging their way there, but wouldn't that just be a given if you have over 1 billion people in your country? Fortunately (or unfortunately, depending on how you look at it) I believe China is going to experience huge political unrest that will result in the overthrow of their regime due to the recent liberalization of the economy. How soon that will happen, nobody knows, but I believe it is inevitable.

It is time for us to realize that foreign investment in our ports (eeek, this coming from a liberal-conservative) or other businesses is not a bad thing at this point in time.

Agreed. The Coast Guard still handles security regardless of who owns the ports.

We lag in cellphone regulations in that why should I pay for incoming calls that I do not need or want. Or that I can not take my cellphone in most any other country? Without having just the "right" phone or paying higher fees?

I never said we didn't lag behind in the telecommunications industry.

In the end we are not the greatest nation, just the most arrogant nation on earth.

Besides the fact that my very terse previous post probably reinforced the "arrogance" of our nation to other people, I do not believe we are. But what makes the "greatest nation"? If it is military might, we are the greatest nation, but "greatest" is a combination of intangibles like history, tradition, lifestyle, and other aspects of life that cannot be calculated.

On a final note, I used "super power" purely in objective terms. We have the largest average GDP, we have huge influence all around the world in investing, companies, and financial institutions, and other things of that sort.

Additionally, being a super power is more commonly now measured in the number of nuclear-powered "supercarriers" a nation has. The United States has 12, and the huge, unmatched military supremacy of the U.S. to other nations is why I made my previous assertion.

Great, I expect flames :)

Oh, and please don't think that I think we have nothing to learn from other European countries. (enough negatives there?)

PaRaGoNViCtiM

Mar 14, 2006, 12:46 PM

I had the RazR V3i for a while now, and I freakin' love it!!!

macbookAPRIL1

Apr 3, 2006, 10:40 AM

madmaxmedia

Apr 3, 2006, 03:56 PM

If you go to the store, you'll find plenty of phones that match your description, not sure what it has to do with the RAZR?

Actually, the RAZR is less full-featured than other high-end phones. It's design and thin profile are its main attractions.

And it's reception is fine IMO, better than the previous SE and Siemens phones I had (not that I consider Motorola any better, they're probably all roughly equal.) On the whole, reception quality isn't a big priority for these phone makers IMO, since it's hard to actually quantitiate reception quality, or advertise it as a selling point in a store. People would rather pick the phone with the 3 MP camera or whatever...

Now back on topic: I hate the RAZR. It's got too much going on... why, oh why, can't I just have a phone?!? Maybe one that actually works! So often these phones with cameras, browsers, games, toasters, etc. don't work as advertized... not to mention the lousy reception.

Misplaced Mage

Apr 4, 2006, 02:53 PM

On the whole, reception quality isn't a big priority for these phone makers IMO, since it's hard to actually quantitiate reception quality, or advertise it as a selling point in a store. People would rather pick the phone with the 3 MP camera or whatever...As an electrical engineer that helps design cell phones for a living, I have to take issue with the first part of this statement. Reception quality is extremely important for several reasons:
Even though though your voice is digitized and sent as packets of data today in any digital phone network, the reception, decompression, and reconstruction of the audio is done in as close to real time as possible to minimize latency. There is no time to go back and request missing or corrupt audio data be retransmitted.
Part of what determines the transmit power level in a cell phone is the strength of the received signal. A phone with poor reception will thus erroneously use more power than necessary to transmit, with a corresponding decrease in battery life.
In the case of CDMA/WCDMA, cells "breathe", i.e., virtually expand and contract based on the number of active calls in the cell. As a consequence of item #2, phones with poor reception will be the most likely to have their calls abruptly dropped at the edge of a cell.Put together, a phone with poor reception reflects poorly upon the service provider, not just the phone manufacturer. Since the providers purchase 95% of the phones on the market (which are then resold as part of service plans), we have every incentive to wring as much performance out of a given design as is possible.

Misplaced Mage

Apr 4, 2006, 03:00 PM

I have a question, If I buy the V3i Razr off ebay, will it work for me in Canada through Bell Mobility?? I'm a bit confused as to how international released phones work in countries where they have not yet been released.No. The V3i is a GSM phone, and will not operate on Bell Mobility's CDMA network. A V3c or newly announced V3m will, however, but then you'll lose the iTunes client. A no-win situation, I'm afraid.

madmaxmedia

Apr 4, 2006, 04:49 PM

As an electrical engineer that helps design cell phones for a living, I have to take issue with the first part of this statement. Reception quality is extremely important for several reasons:

Hey Mage,

Thanks for the info, it was very interesting.

I think you misinterpreted my post. I didn't mean that reception quality is unimportant, I meant that it does not seem as important to the cell phone makers in terms of differentiating their phones against the competition.

Besides the extra features and designer looks, obviously a phone is first and foremost used for voice calls. So having a phone that does this well is important. It's just very hard for consumers to really tell which are good and which are bad in the store. OTOH, you can read full spec lists that tell you how many songs it can play, how many megapixels the camera is, the exact web and movie features it can do, etc...

If there was some basic measure of reception quality (say from 1 to 10, or 1 to 100), that would be awesome IMO. Especially when shopping for a new phone, you could look for one with a better rating if you there are local 'trouble spots' for you. I used to drop calls a lot in certain areas where I live, that actually stopped happening when I got a RAZR for Christmas. Maybe there's even better, but I have no idea-

Or a person is better enabled to decide what mix of features is best for them. Maybe they want the smallest phone possible, as long as it provides a certain acceptable reception quality, etc. One can do this when shopping for say cars or notebook computers. But we can't with cell phones.

Misplaced Mage

Apr 4, 2006, 08:16 PM

The problem is that you're dealing with radio. Manufacturers can (and do) make all sorts of comparisons under laboratory conditions, where we can control everything -- right down to the humidity of the air in some tests. The problem is that we can't control the real world so well. ;) Some reception factors include:
Weather (precipitation can be a problem at times, so is ice on a base station's antennas)
Multipath, i.e., the signal reflects off objects en route (buildings, cars, trucks, etc.) and interferes with itself
Competing service providers sharing the same base station tower for their antennas (increasingly common)
Base station software's "idiosyncrasies" with our phone software at the protocol level. All the major carriers are a hodgepodge of hardware and software due to acquisitions, supplier bidding, etc. Interoperation testing is something you don't hear about much, except when something slips through.
The person next to you chatting on his cell phone
The badly RF shielded PC down the hall
The other 57 people chatting in the cell you can't see
The Verizon "Can you hear me now?" guy is no joke. That sort of thing goes on constantly -- I've ridden and made the test calls on a few road loops myself. But there are inevitable engineering and software compromises, and a phone that works well for one person in one area may not work as well for another in a different area. The general advice is still, "Use what works best for you."

<shrug> If designing a cell phone were simple, it wouldn't take the experienced manufacturers 6-12 months to design a new one. That's why I cast such a skeptical eye on Apple developing their own cell phone internally: far more likely that they'd subcontract the hardware, do the UI themselves, and have input on -- but not total control of -- of the phone's OS. Just like every other MVNO.

madmaxmedia

Apr 4, 2006, 08:38 PM

Hi Mage,

Thanks again. I do understand that reception quality can depend on a whole multitude of local factors. Which is why when someone says Phone X is the absolute best, or Provider A is horrible, I take it with a few grains of salt.

But, shouldn't be possible to devise some sort of standardized test to measure reception strength of different phones?

For example, there is a new standard to measure how long various digital cameras last with their standard batteries. And of course there's the EPA test for car gas mileage. I don't think the tests are going to tell you exactly how the product will perform in your hands, but it should give you a comparative basis to evaluate different products.

The funny thing is that I'm pretty fine with phones as they are, and have no complaints. I was originally just responding to someone else's complaint about the RAZR... :)

The problem is that you're dealing with radio. Manufacturers can (and do) make all sorts of comparisons under laboratory conditions, where we can control everything -- right down to the humidity of the air in some tests. The problem is that we can't control the real world so well. ;) Some reception factors include:
Weather (precipitation can be a problem at times, so is ice on a base station's antennas)
Multipath, i.e., the signal reflects off objects en route (buildings, cars, trucks, etc.) and interferes with itself
Competing service providers sharing the same base station tower for their antennas (increasingly common)
Base station software's "idiosyncrasies" with our phone software at the protocol level. All the major carriers are a hodgepodge of hardware and software due to acquisitions, supplier bidding, etc. Interoperation testing is something you don't hear about much, except when something slips through.
The person next to you chatting on his cell phone
The badly RF shielded PC down the hall
The other 57 people chatting in the cell you can't see

Misplaced Mage

Apr 6, 2006, 05:03 PM

Well, if you want to get technical... :cool:

Phones usually have a test mode ("test screen", "field test display", etc.) where the Received Signal Strength Indicator (RSSI) is shown along with other technical information. This is the power level of the received, on-channel signal as measured by the phone itself. A typical CDMA phone is required by the carriers to pick up a -106dBm radiated signal (i.e., through the air to the phone's antenna, not conducted by a shielded line like cable TV), but this number is usually exceeded by design (-107dBm or less) to allow for variations in manufacture. Comparing the RSSI of two phones side-by-side in a weak signal area will give you some idea of which is more sensitive, but only an idea. For an better test you need to know the exact output power of the signal the phone is receiving so you know how accurate the phone's RSSI number really is. The only way to do this is to put the phone in a Faraday cage to eliminate all other spurious signals and use a carefully calibrated transmitter (I was really impressed when the Mythbusters went to this extent recently in seeing if cell phones interfered with aviation electronics).

But there's that qualifier I had : "...this number (-106dBm) is usually exceeded by design (-107dBm or less) to allow for variations in manufacture." There's always going to be some variation due to the tolerances in the manufacturing process of a phone and those of each of its constituent components -- and the variations in any given circuit are cumulative. We have to accept those tolerances we can't improve, and design around them. But while most of the phones will come in under -107dBm, there are going to be a few where the stars aligned and go another couple of dBm down, and a few where the stars crossed and just barely meet the -106dBm requirement.

We could design even more sensitive receivers, or ones we could manufacture to even tighter tolerances, but such high precision gets very expensive very quickly and in the end wouldn't help the vast majority of users. Or we could go back to putting big, extendable antennas on the phones instead of the ridiculously small, internal antennas everyone wants these days. "Ye cannae break the laws o' physics!" :D

rockthecasbah

Apr 6, 2006, 05:21 PM

Is the Razor V3i still not available in the USA? Im looking to upgrade (have cingular) but it appears they didn't have the V3i, just the V3. So i went further and i didn't find a carrier that sells the iTunes enabled version of the RAZR. Anyone know if they do sell in the USA and i just missed it or what? Is the plain V3 the US alternative? :confused:

madmaxmedia

Apr 6, 2006, 06:45 PM

We could design even more sensitive receivers, or ones we could manufacture to even tighter tolerances, but such high precision gets very expensive very quickly and in the end wouldn't help the vast majority of users. Or we could go back to putting big, extendable antennas on the phones instead of the ridiculously small, internal antennas everyone wants these days. "Ye cannae break the laws o' physics!" :D

That's awesome, thanks for the post. It's always good to learn a little more... ;)

In general, are most phones nowadays reasonably close in reception strength? How do today's smaller, feature-packed phones compare to the bricks of yesteryear?

I always hear people say "Phone A sucks!" or "Phone B has by far the best range,", etc. But almost all these sorts of stories are completely anecdotal.

I do find, though, my RAZR consistently performing better around my home than my old Sony T610.

twoodcc

Apr 6, 2006, 07:18 PM

No. The V3i is a GSM phone, and will not operate on Bell Mobility's CDMA network. A V3c or newly announced V3m will, however, but then you'll lose the iTunes client. A no-win situation, I'm afraid.

what about in the US? will the V3i work here?

Misplaced Mage

Apr 8, 2006, 11:23 PM

That's awesome, thanks for the post. It's always good to learn a little more... ;)

In general, are most phones nowadays reasonably close in reception strength? How do today's smaller, feature-packed phones compare to the bricks of yesteryear?

I always hear people say "Phone A sucks!" or "Phone B has by far the best range,", etc. But almost all these sorts of stories are completely anecdotal.

I do find, though, my RAZR consistently performing better around my home than my old Sony T610.Reasonably close? I'd have to say yes, just out of the requirements of the carriers. There are always exceptions, though. You may remember Motorola's V810 from a year or two ago: Verizon had it in testing for almost a year, and ultimately decided not to carry it. Other US carriers did pick it up, so it certainly met FCC requirements. While the antenna in its camera's field of view was certainly a problem, rumors have it that there was a problem with aGPS reception that didn't meet Verizon's specs no matter what Motorola did to the phone.

And that a cell phone is capable of picking up a -130dBm GPS signal these days for FCC 911 requirements should speak to the improvements in reception since the days of the Brick. :D It takes a number of tricks to do it, like turning off practically everything in the phone to reduce noise while it's taking a location fix, and have the network do the bulk of the number-crunching in order to take advantage of a few shortcuts, but it actually works quite well.

One final thing that has a major effect on reception? How the user holds the phone. Putting a finger on or immediately next to the antennas(s) -- wherever it's/they're located in a phone -- is terrible for transmission and reception. It screws up the impedance match between the antenna(s) and the air, and is difficult to characterize well. And as much as people like the look and heft of real metal in a phone, it needs to be thoroughly grounded to prevent it from interfering with the real antenna(s) in a phone.