Jobs offers Mac OS X for $100 Laptop

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

The Wall Street Journal reports (http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB113193305149696140-442o71jo_IlBrLpyUeeOdsqDs7E_20061113.html?mod=tff_main_tff_top) on an initiative to develop a $100 laptop targetted at school children in developing nations. A non-profit organization called One Laptop Per Child has been formed to oversee the project with plans to put the laptop into the hands of 100-150 million children.

The $100 design remains a challenge and has not yet been solidified, but due to the scope of the project has drawn interest from many industry leaders, including Microsoft and Apple.

According to the WSJ, Steve Jobs offered to provide Mac OS X for free for the upcoming machine. The offer was declined, however, as they were looking for a 100% opensource solution. This offer, however, was only possible as Mac OS X is now capable of running on the x86 architecture as well as the PowerPC. The new $100 laptop will be powered by an AMD processor running Red Hat Linux.

[hayesk]

Refusing was a good idea. MacOS X would never run well on this machine, and they'd have to rely on (i.e. wait for) Apple for updates whenever they wanted to rev the machine.

[SpaceMagic]

Very Interesting...

Doesn't this mean Apple is willing to break its DRM to allow OS X to run on non-Apple hardware... if Apple can do that, hackers will find a way too.

This seems way too much like a marketing ploy more than anything. Give millions of these machines out with OS X and then the market will boom! The main reason why people buy Windows PCs over Macs is because they think macs aren't compatible. Give millions of kids Macs and they'll only buy macs in the future, and their friends and their friend's friend.

[DMann]

This may well be a sign that steve is
ever so possibly willing lease OS X
in the future......

[katie ta achoo]

Wow.. that's pretty rad.

But you'd see people going to those countries and a rash of the $100 laptops on eBay or something.

One Laptop Per Child sounds like a really good program though. Maybe Apple will donate some money their way?

[WeBleed4Real]

For a $100 laptop, you have to buy your own:

1. RAM
2. Hard drive
3. Keyboard and mouse (no trackpad included)
4. External speaker (no built in)
5. Power cord

[liketom]

this news story is there just to warm us Mac faithfull of the future of Mac OS

Mac OS on x86 will happen on all PC's :(

[mac-er]

Cute idea, but I'd rather see the money go to more important things (like feeing them or giving them vaccines/cures) than making sure they have a computer.

1. I don't think these kids are concerned about getting a laptop when their parents are dying of AIDS or they are worried about where their next meal is coming from.

2. Linux is a little over-the-head of the average user....do you think these kids will have any idea how to use it?

[japasneezemonk]

Wow.. that's pretty rad.

But you'd see people going to those countries and a rash of the $100 laptops on eBay or something.



Believe me, a $100 laptop isn't going to be much to look at.

[liketom]

For a $100 laptop, you have to buy your own:

1. RAM
2. Hard drive
3. Keyboard and mouse (no trackpad included)
4. External speaker (no built in)
5. Power cord
so your buying a laptop case then ? with a screen that is :D

[jared_kipe]

Holy cow, I can't believe they refused. Going open source is not a good idea at all. These under developed nations kids will now learn not standard and horrible GUI from one of the 134002 linux distros.

This is perhaps the nicest thing any software developer has ever tried. Microsoft will ship a version of Longhorn for developing nations which they cripple and they will CHARGE for it. I'm sure Steve didn't says "You can have OSX... 10.2 muah ha ha."

[DCBass]

Seems to me to be more of a PR move than anything.

I'm sure Stevie knew they would reject him. Then again, if they accepted, that's a whole lotta good karma to pass around apple.

[nagromme]

My thoughts:

1. OS X would be a great choice, and it's great of Apple to offer it for free. But their reasons for choosing Linux aren't wrong either.

2. This shows Steve Jobs is willing to think in unusual directions about OS X on x86. And it shows that there are many different forms "cloning" could take other than the way it was done last time.

3. Apple might still give OS X to those users if they wanted--just adapt the copy protection to allow it only to be installed on those units. Depends how the protection system works, I guess. I bet plenty of schools around the world would be happy to dual-boot Linux and OS X, gaining access to mainstream apps.

4. Whatever the OS, I hope it succeeds. Sounds like a great project.

5. How long before there's a Jack-in-the-Box app?

[katie ta achoo]

Believe me, a $100 laptop isn't going to be much to look at.

yeah, but throw in some RAM and put windows (ew) on it, and you have a pretty good all-purpose laptop for your grammaw or something. (you know, the one that can't program her VCR. :p)

[MacsRgr8]

Mac OS on x86 will happen on all PC's :(

IMHO if it is technichally feasible......then it will happen; i.e. how much Apple will try to avoid Mac OS X on "non-compatible" x86 hardware, it will be done anyway.

Apple would like to hold on to the control of compatible hardware, but the DevKit Mac OS X86 10.4.1 has been installed on non-devKit Mac x86-PCs all over the place.... likewise the "final" commercial product.

We'll have te get used to it....

[MacTruck]

These kids will only buy a $100 laptop if it comes with a weeks worth of food. How the hell are they going to come up with $100?

[Jimmni]

Seems to me this was most likely an offer made with (probably complete) certainty that it would be refused. Jobs will have known that they'd not allow themselves to be dependent on Apple, and that OS X wouldn't run well enough. So why make the offer? Well, great press for one thing. Karma points for ol' Steve. It's important Apple try to keep an image of generosity and caring as the OS X/Vista battle draws nearer. Gates might donate billions to charity, but people rarely remember that when their PC crashes.

[nagromme]

1. I don't think these kids are concerned about getting a laptop when their parents are dying of AIDS or they are worried about where their next meal is coming from.
I think these countries--for their kids' sake--ARE concerned about education, computer literacy, interconnection with the rest of the world, and training kids to go into math, science, medicine, etc. The basic needs you mention are indeed vital, but you can't JUST solve the short-term crisis of the moment, you ALSO have to look at the long term. Putting money into both directions is very sensible--it shouldn't ALL go into basic needs or nothing can ever really improve.

2. Linux is a little over-the-head of the average user....do you think these kids will have any idea how to use it?
They wouldn't have to install/maintain it, but they'd be able to use whatever simple shell was placed on top of it. Anything that is called for could be designed, and I bet lots of people would contribute to such open-source projects.

These kids will only buy a $100 laptop if it comes with a weeks worth of food. How the hell are they going to come up with $100?
This isn't just for kids to buy directly :p Schools and governments and non-profits are the likely purchasers. In bulk.

No matter what, a laptop for $100 instead of $600 is a big step--and being able to run without external power is important too.

[iMeowbot]

Holy cow, I can't believe they refused. Going open source is not a good idea at all. These under developed nations kids will now learn not standard and horrible GUI from one of the 134002 linux distros.
These machines won't even have hard drives, so nothing as complicated as OS X is going to fit on there.

Information (http://laptop.media.mit.edu/) on what the machines actually are.

[egor]

These kids will only buy a $100 laptop if it comes with a weeks worth of food. How the hell are they going to come up with $100?

You do realise that its the state that buys children these laptops, right?!? They're cheap so that third world governments can afford them for many children.

And someone stated there would be no RAM, etc. Have people not been following the initiative? The idea is a fully fledged laptop.. a perfectly capable one albeit maybe not as good as most on the market today (ie. it may have a flash drive instead of a HD, but this is fine for the children's needs).

I'm suprised they passed up the opportunity, it would have put the kids on a similiar footing to the rest of the world and I suspect would have made things alot easier to maintain, I see no reason why the OS has to be open-source; just the apps should be. Then again is there a scaled down version of OSX with a small enough footprint?!?

[JeffTL]

Cute idea, but I'd rather see the money go to more important things (like feeing them or giving them vaccines/cures) than making sure they have a computer.

1. I don't think these kids are concerned about getting a laptop when their parents are dying of AIDS or they are worried about where their next meal is coming from.

2. Linux is a little over-the-head of the average user....do you think these kids will have any idea how to use it?

You do realize that not the entire developing world is as bad off as the Sudan or somesuch? The adult HIV/AIDS prevalence in Brazil (one of the countries most interested in this project) is only 0.7%, literacy is 86.4%, and life expectancy at birth is 71.69 years. Poverty is 22% -- almost a third of Niger's 63%, but not that much worse than the UK at 17% or

In contrast, HIV/AIDS in the United States is 0.6%, literacy is 97%, poverty is 12%. Definitely better on literacy and poverty, but HIV isn't really that worse in Brazil than it is in the United States.

Remember, also, that it's called the "developing" world for a reason -- it has a potential to become "developed." The purpose of projects such as this is to accelerate that process. At any rate, though, it is reductionism at its worst to paint the entire developing world with such a broad brush as to imply that it is entirely squalid, starving, and AIDS-riddled in its entirity. There are such places; Brazil isn't really that much worse than the United States, compared to some places.

(Stats source: CIA World Factbook)

When it comes to Linux, once it's set up properly it's not hard to use at all.

[snkTab]

Isn't a laptop a luxury?? Why are we giving this to school children not in our own countries? Why can't we just continue to build schools and provide aid in the form of food and medicine? They wouldn't be able to afford the power even if it was availible.

This makes no sense. Like buying everyone in Cambodia $500 cars just to see if they can get out of poverty.

[johnnyjibbs]

This was not just Steve Jobs giving heart, this was a mighty business opportunity. Don't you see that in Steve Jobs offering Mac OS X for children of developing nations, they have a chance of getting into Mac, rather than Windows, and thus there is a massive market there for Mac in the future. I've been saying all along that this is why Apple needs to get more into the education market (outside the US) - people tend to stick to what they grew up with. Don't just rely on people switching - get them hooked from the beginning!

EDIT: This $100 laptop was talked about at least a year ago. I think it's a good idea because it means that children in the developing countries - their future - don't get behind on technology. You could say that basic amenities should come first, but this is in addition to all of that.

[Object-X]

I can't believe they declined it! So, you are going to force the less fortunate of the world to suffer with an overly complex and inferior OS? I thought the whole idea was to help people not push your stupid open source idealism. :mad:

[topgunn]

An ever increasing number of jobs require at least some computer skills. Imagine what will be required in 5, 10, or 20 years. There is already a large disparity between the haves and the have nots when it comes to education. This is an attempt to help level the playing field in that respect.

Who are the IT guys or computer engineers today? Most of them are kids who had a computer at home at an early age. How is developing a inexpensive laptop for disadvantaged youth a bad thing? And I really hate the argument that we have bigger things to worry about. It is horrible thing that has happened to the growing number of AIDs orphans in our country and others around the world but should we get rid of the space program to devote more money to this cause? No. Should we do away with goverment supported student financial aid to allow more money to be used for feeding the nation's hungry? There are many worthy areas to send our dollars, both tax and personal.

Linux is not difficult to use although it can be difficult to setup. These computers will be very user friendly and will allow the kids to do anything they could do on a $1000 Windows laptop.

And more than likely it is not the kids or their parents that will be buying the machines. Rather, the will be paid for by generous individuals that feel this is a worthwhile cause.

[egor]

Isn't a laptop a luxury?? Why are we giving this to school children not in our own countries? Why can't we just continue to build schools and provide aid in the form of food and medicine? They wouldn't be able to afford the power even if it was availible.

This makes no sense. Like buying everyone in Cambodia $500 cars just to see if they can get out of poverty.

Dammit people.. the laptops are self-powering, likely to be powered by winding them up.. like the wind-up radios that have helped people in poverty so much.

"We"?!? Its being provided by multi-national corporations.

Schools? This is for schools, laptops can greatly improve education, in many ways they can save money on text books, paper (much of which parents have to buy) and are always up to date with the latest information (theoretically).. also prepare kids for perhaps even city jobs, jobs that will help the country's economy, etc.

[geese]

This story does sound odd.

A $100 laptop is going to be very basic. Look what is says on the BBC site about it: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4292854.stm

Its basically going to have a weak CPU powered by a handcrank! I doubt the screen could handle more then 256 colours, and i doubt the graphics card is going to handle expose very well.

So either this was an empty gesture by Jobs or he was going to license some of OS X technology for free. Maybe allow them to build the Linux OS atop of Darwin.

And for anyone wondering why developing kids would need a laptop there is a very compelling reason. An improved telecoms and IT infrastructure is currently the best hope for improving the lot of the developing world. The mobile phone has been responsible for major improvements for the poor (see link (http://www.vodafone.com/article/0,8118,CATEGORY_ID%253D3040302%2526LANGUAGE_ID%253D0%2526CONTENT_ID%253D266250,00.html). Greater communications can improve teaching, save on textbooks, and allow nations to develop their own IT industry. Imagine how much more benificial it would be to developing countries of they developed their own Linux and applications, rather then buying (or pirating) Windows?

Just look at India as an example. This is a GOOD project.

[egor]

This was not just Steve Jobs giving heart, this was a mighty business opportunity. Don't you see that in Steve Jobs offering Mac OS X for children of developing nations, they have a chance of getting into Mac, rather than Windows, and thus there is a massive market there for Mac in the future. I've been saying all along that this is why Apple needs to get more into the education market (outside the US) - people tend to stick to what they grew up with. Don't just rely on people switching - get them hooked from the beginning!

EDIT: This $100 laptop was talked about at least a year ago. I think it's a good idea because it means that children in the developing countries - their future - don't get behind on technology. You could say that basic amenities should come first, but this is in addition to all of that.

Is it possible that this is why it was declined though.. that they don't want to make this a business issue? I agree on the thought behind it though, Microsoft is looking at the developing world, linux is already stamped over much of it.. can such companies afford to let this happen?!?

[bigandy]

go read the website before you go too far slamming it.

http://laptop.media.mit.edu/

[revjay]

I can't believe they declined it! So, you are going to force the less fortunate of the world to suffer with an overly complex and inferior OS? I thought the whole idea was to help people not push your stupid open source idealism. :mad:
Check the source for this info: http://laptop.media.mit.edu/ Repeated throughout this website is that the only capability the $100 laptop does not have that a $1000 laptop does is the ability to store 'lots of information ...aka no hard drive...info stored solid state...I don't know about your version of OSX but OSX on my computer seems to take up a lot of space...I think Steve was bluffing...but he will likely come out smelling like roses!

[thedude110]

Cute idea, but I'd rather see the money go to more important things (like feeing them or giving them vaccines/cures) than making sure they have a computer.


Don't underestimate the impact of technology on education, and don't underestimate the power of education to reshape a culture.

I'm teaching Walden today.

My kids have no laptops, and they hate Walden.

[visor]

I truely belive that Computers for children, say below 10 years, are a really bad idea. There is absolutely no need for them to learn with a laptop - they do it all well with pen and paper. maybe go out and look at a plant in real live, rather than looking at a darn picture.

I can already picture them growing not up, but forward, bending into the screen. If they ever happen to see any plant, they'll wonder where the powerbutton is.

[ManchesterTrix]

Isn't a laptop a luxury?? Why are we giving this to school children not in our own countries? Why can't we just continue to build schools and provide aid in the form of food and medicine? They wouldn't be able to afford the power even if it was availible.

This makes no sense. Like buying everyone in Cambodia $500 cars just to see if they can get out of poverty.

You should actually read about the initiative.

[plinden]

Cute idea, but I'd rather see the money go to more important things (like feeing them or giving them vaccines/cures) than making sure they have a computer.

1. I don't think these kids are concerned about getting a laptop when their parents are dying of AIDS or they are worried about where their next meal is coming from.
To clear up some misconceptions. Despite what you see on TV (if you don't turn off foreign news) the vast majority of the world's population are living in areas where there is actually enough food, and where a majority of the people are not dying of AIDS or other endemic diseases, and where governments and society are stable enough to provide at least basic education and medical care.

These laptops are not going to be sent in place of food aid to famine or disaster areas. Rather, they will be available, probably through donations, to schools where it will make some difference. Of course $100 is still out of the reach of most people, but $1000 is much more out of their reach and a $1000,000 grant would provide one to 10,000 rather than 1,000 children.

As for what you would get for $100 ...You won't be able to play Doom 3 or run Final Cut Pro on them, but they will at least provide the opportunity for basic computer literacy and internet access.

2. Linux is a little over-the-head of the average user....do you think these kids will have any idea how to use it?
Linux is a remarkably flexible OS. I would hope the distro being used would be modified to be suitable. Ever tried Knoppix, booting from a CD? That's a very usable and stable distro. A modified read-only Knoppix would provide plenty of power with the safeguard of not being able to be corrupted by curious minds.

[Arcus]

Red Hat is dead. Fedora is the free replacement. I would have rather seen them choose Ubuntu. (Obviously my top would have been X)

RH = Metallica. They used to be cool before going corporate.

[MrJohnson]

I just want to point out that the people working on this project attend or work at MIT. More than likely they're smarter than you and are making the right decision.


Also by choosing Linux they can completly customize the system from the kernel up.

[Bonte]

This may well be a sign that steve is
ever so possibly willing lease OS X
in the future......

Totally agree, this is no less then a warning to all. The overall conception on the web is Apple not licensing there OS but this offer is a clear YES. :) Glad to hear Apple is not doing something dumb like not licensing there OS.

[kwajo.com]

apple should find a way of using their great strap/ac adaptor combo. that thing is brilliant7

[kwajo.com]

Totally agree, this is no less then a warning to all. The overall conception on the web is Apple not licensing there OS but this offer is a clear YES. :) Glad to hear Apple is not doing something dumb like not licensing there OS.

i disagree, licensing is not really in apple's best interest, and this doesn't say anything about it either way. it's just an offer to be part of an innovative program, and a closed system one at that, so it's not a sign of future software licenses

[nagromme]

Isn't a laptop a luxury?? Why are we giving this to school children not in our own countries? Why can't we just continue to build schools and provide aid in the form of food and medicine? They wouldn't be able to afford the power even if it was availible.
A COMPUTER is not a luxury, it's a requirement to have skills for the future. And a hand-cranked laptop is portable and requires no external power.

Lastly--even if you object to charity, these aren't being "given." They are being made at low cost and sold for $100.


I truely belive that Computers for children, say below 10 years, are a really bad idea. There is absolutely no need for them to learn with a laptop - they do it all well with pen and paper. maybe go out and look at a plant in real live, rather than looking at a darn picture.

I can already picture them growing not up, but forward, bending into the screen. If they ever happen to see any plant, they'll wonder where the powerbutton is.
Why would these laptops only be for children under 10? Older children would make more sense. And nobody's suggesting that these laptops replace all other aspects of a child's life.


...aka no hard drive...info stored solid state...I don't know about your version of OSX but OSX on my computer seems to take up a lot of space...
True--but solid state storage is getting cheaper. The day will come before too long when OS X plus a few apps plus 5 GB free storage can be done affordably without a HD. (And Linux plus apps plus storage isn't exactly small either.)

[dongmin]

[QUOTE=iMeowbot Information (http://laptop.media.mit.edu/) on what the machines actually are.[/QUOTE]
Gotta say, their design is pretty rad. It's a tablet-pvp-computer that's durable and super portable. I'd love to see Apple put out something like that. Put in a bigger screen and add a bit more horsepower and charge $300. OS X would take over the world.

http://laptop.media.mit.edu/images/diagram1.jpg

[neutrino23]

I think this was a generous offer by Steve. Perhaps since last years brush with death he feels his mortality a little more now.

I've heard of this project before and have thought it was a bad idea. Not a bad idea to supply computers to the third world, but a bad idea to create a special computer for the third world. Better to find the financing and give them first world technology otherwise they wind up in their own software cul-de-sac.

It would have been wonderful to let them use a somewhat simplified version of OS X. Just cut back on some of the graphics needs and you're there.

Memory is so cheap that by the time they ever get this project off the ground they'll be able to supply 256MB of RAM and a few tens of gigs of HD with this laptop.

I'm mixed on the idea of making these popular. Probably it would be good to have some of these spread around with internet connections. As long as each classroom/city hall/library etc. has one with an internet connection that could be a big boost for spreading all sorts of information.

[jared_kipe]

As for the pictures, where the hell is the hand crank gonna be? And a tablet screen? for under 100usd? I can't see that happening.

[RIP]

http://www.palm.com/us/products/handhelds/z22/

:rolleyes:

[LimeiBook86]

This is nice and all but, I think that things like food, clean water, and shelters are better to start with, then get some laptops to them :)

Steve Jobs' heart was in the right place, too bad they didn't accept. Hope those kids like Linux :) /fsck! :p

[Rivix]

:eek:

I dont even own a laptop yet, and people in third world contries are getting some?

;) Good Idea tho.

[mac-er]

... governments... are the likely purchasers. In bulk.


Yea, we know where these laptops would end up with these type of governments buying them.....anywhere but in the hands of the people who would need them. Govt's of developing countries aren't typically concerned with the welfare of their citizens. Gov'ts in Africa are among the most corrupt in the world. Look at North Korea....you think he would supply the laptops he bought to his people? He doesn't even supply them with food.

Who are the IT guys or computer engineers today?
Indians. :rolleyes: {joke}

[mac-er]

To clear up some misconceptions. Despite what you see on TV (if you don't turn off foreign news) the vast majority of the world's population are living in areas where there is actually enough food, and where a majority of the people are not dying of AIDS or other endemic diseases, and where governments and society are stable enough to provide at least basic education and medical care.


Then those aren't the 3rd world countries this program is intended to help.

[Mr_Ed]

...
I've heard of this project before and have thought it was a bad idea. Not a bad idea to supply computers to the third world, but a bad idea to create a special computer for the third world. Better to find the financing and give them first world technology otherwise they wind up in their own software cul-de-sac.
...
I agree with you on this. I think long term, it will limit their options on software tools. Then again, their software options are probably fairly mimited by hardware constraints already based on the specs I was reading. As long as someone is willing to create software for the kids using this box they will have applications, but how many would be willing to invest the time to write an application for a system that by its very design is intended for an audience that cannot afford to pay? Not saying there are none who would contribute to such an effort, just pointing out some of the realities involved.

http://www.palm.com/us/products/handhelds/z22/
I can't tell if you were trying to be funny, but I kind of like this idea :) At least a ruggedized, alternative power version of this would be appropriate.

[winmacguy]

Wow.. that's pretty rad.

But you'd see people going to those countries and a rash of the $100 laptops on eBay or something.

One Laptop Per Child sounds like a really good program though. Maybe Apple will donate some money their way?
Katie I take it you like Chuck Norris;)

On a more serious note :rolleyes: this little quote suprises me :confused:
"Mr. Negroponte discussed the project last week with Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates and Craig Mundie, chief technical officer of advanced strategies and policy. "We're in serious discussions to determine what the appropriate type of involvement is with us with their project," says Mr. Mundie.

Yet... "Steve Jobs, Apple Computer Inc.'s chief executive, offered to provide free copies of the company's operating system, OS X, for the machine, according to Seymour Papert, a professor emeritus at MIT who is one of the initiative's founders. "We declined because it's not open source," says Dr. Papert, noting the designers want an operating system that can be tinkered with"..... OK, I know they went for Linux but how is Microsoft more "non proprietry" than OS X ? for things like word, excel, power point etc you just use OpenOffice for Mac.

[p0intblank]

A $100 laptop... I'd love to do a test run of this machine.

[mymemory]

It seems that Jobs have been metting with Hugo Chavez

The same kind of populist ideas that never come true. Like Chavez offering cheap gas at the Bronx ¿where is the gas?

Or offering $600K to one samba school in Brasil and then taking it back.

More of the same.

[BRLawyer]

These kids will only buy a $100 laptop if it comes with a weeks worth of food. How the hell are they going to come up with $100?

There will be no "kids" buying anything...it's gonna be a program subsidized by local governments and donor agencies, obviously...

But good luck anyway to my poor fellow Brazilians that will touch a Linux-driven machine, as "easy" to use as it is...laudable, but crappy OS-wise.

And to those that say that OS X cannot run on old machines, my iBook G3 500 with 384Mb RAM is doing perfectly fine on Tiger, thanks very much...

[Compile 'em all]

Holy cow, I can't believe they refused. Going open source is not a good idea at all. These under developed nations kids will now learn not standard and horrible GUI from one of the 134002 linux distros.


Not Standard?? I suppose OS X is the standard then?. You are right that
there are many distros out there but all of them basically are either using
GNOME or KDE as their default DE.

Horrible GUI? I hope you are kidding right. GNOME and KDE are as easy to
use as MS Windows, specially if you don't do too much with your computer
(just mail,internet,IM.) It is true you need some time to adapt but there is
always a learning curve with anything new.

OS X is amazing and all but saying that everything else is crap is pure FUD.
Oh well...another Apple Fanboy.

[BRLawyer]

Yea, we know where these laptops would end up with these type of governments buying them.....anywhere but in the hands of the people who would need them. Govt's of developing countries aren't typically concerned with the welfare of their citizens. Gov'ts in Africa are among the most corrupt in the world. Look at North Korea....you think he would supply the laptops he bought to his people? He doesn't even supply them with food.


Indians. :rolleyes: {joke}

Gosh, bushisms really abound in the "land of the free"...are you the same guys that defend torture of "terrorists", deny hidden CIA torture centers in Europe or think Bush is a clean guy? Get a grip and spare us from such generic (and moronic) remarks, please...

[BRLawyer]

It seems that Jobs have been metting with Hugo Chavez

The same kind of populist ideas that never come true. Like Chavez offering cheap gas at the Bronx ¿where is the gas?

Or offering $600K to one samba school in Brasil and then taking it back.

More of the same.

600 grand to samba schools in Brazil? What for? They've already got enough money, AFAIK...

[RIP]

nor will I take the time to do so so I'm sorry if this has already been mentioned however don't 3rd world countries need electricity first? And what advantage would a computer give these people, that might have electricity, if they had a $100 laptop? They don't need a computer to type a resume nor do I see a need for a lot of C programmers or site coders.

Even with electricity and a laptop, they would still need at the minimum a phone line to take advantage of the worlds knowledge.

[oober_freak]

This story does sound odd.

A $100 laptop is going to be very basic. Look what is says on the BBC site about it: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4292854.stm

Its basically going to have a weak CPU powered by a handcrank! I doubt the screen could handle more then 256 colours, and i doubt the graphics card is going to handle expose very well.

So either this was an empty gesture by Jobs or he was going to license some of OS X technology for free. Maybe allow them to build the Linux OS atop of Darwin.

And for anyone wondering why developing kids would need a laptop there is a very compelling reason. An improved telecoms and IT infrastructure is currently the best hope for improving the lot of the developing world. The mobile phone has been responsible for major improvements for the poor (see link (http://www.vodafone.com/article/0,8118,CATEGORY_ID%253D3040302%2526LANGUAGE_ID%253D0%2526CONTENT_ID%253D266250,00.html). Greater communications can improve teaching, save on textbooks, and allow nations to develop their own IT industry. Imagine how much more benificial it would be to developing countries of they developed their own Linux and applications, rather then buying (or pirating) Windows?

Just look at India as an example. This is a GOOD project.

I have to agree...

10 years back... hardly any one owned a cell phone here.. today even sweepers own cell phones! calling rates are like... 2 cents a min for long distance and a cent a minute for local calls. Also handsets are available within 30$ here.

The cell phone has tapped the 300-350 million poor Indian population. 500-600 million can be categorized in middle class and the rest are the elite. Tapping the poor market did the trick for the cell phone companies.

This $100 laptop will certainly help the rural population very much. Looks like Vision 2020 will come true finally :)

[MrKahuna]

Why is everyone assuming that the main purpose of these laptops is to teach computer skills? I don't believe that it is. These are a means to an end, not the end in themselves ( a common mis-perception by computer hobbyists and industry insiders.) It's OK to revel in the design of a tool but remember that the design exists to fulfill a purpose. In this case, the tool will be used for communication and learning. Compare the $100 cost of this laptop to the cost of paper textbooks over several years and $100 doesn't seem so expensive anymore.

[noreturn]

Yea, we know where these laptops would end up with these type of governments buying them.....anywhere but in the hands of the people who would need them. Govt's of developing countries aren't typically concerned with the welfare of their citizens. Gov'ts in Africa are among the most corrupt in the world. Look at North Korea....you think he would supply the laptops he bought to his people? He doesn't even supply them with food.

Oh, really? So these dastardly depraved empires are going to stockpile on cheap technology and hold them above grabbing height of the children that need them? No corrupt government official would have any use for a cheap laptop when they could easily buy a real computer from real bribes. Step out of your cave once in a while.

And please stop saying that they should worry about food, medicine, etc. first. If food were an issue, the government would not be buying bulk orders of what to them would be $100 paperweights to replace their food stockpile.

[Evangelion]

1. I don't think these kids are concerned about getting a laptop when their parents are dying of AIDS or they are worried about where their next meal is coming from.

So we should just give them handouts and food so they could live another day, instead of trying to empower them to help themselves? These laptops could really boost their education, and it would enable them to do lots and lots of different things, which would be a significanty boost for them in the long run. Pumping food there would only enable them to live for another 24 hours, with zero possibility of them getting on their feet.

2. Linux is a little over-the-head of the average user....do you think these kids will have any idea how to use it?

Linux might be difficult for those who have been brought up using Windows. But fact is that today Linux is very easy to use, and it has all the apps you could want. For the most part, Linux "just works", and it does that better than Windows does.

[Lepton]

Ithink

[Evangelion]

Holy cow, I can't believe they refused. Going open source is not a good idea at all. These under developed nations kids will now learn not standard and horrible GUI from one of the 134002 linux distros.

What is a "standard" GUI and what is not? I assume you think OS X/Aqua is "standard" GUI. What makes Aqua "standard" whereas KDE (for example) is not? And there's only handful of GUI's for Linux. There might be several distros (for the reason that one OS can't satisfy every need), but there's only handful of GUI's that are widely used. GNOME and KDE are the two most popular, with XFCE propably being the third.

This is perhaps the nicest thing any software developer has ever tried.

You mean, apart from spending one's free time to create a kick-ass software, giving it to others and saying "here, use this as you see fit"?

[Photorun]

"Mr. Negroponte discussed the project last week with Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates and Craig Mundie, chief technical officer of advanced strategies and policy. "We're in serious discussions to determine what the appropriate type of involvement is with us with their project," says Mr. Mundie.

Yet... "Steve Jobs, Apple Computer Inc.'s chief executive, offered to provide free copies of the company's operating system, OS X, for the machine, according to Seymour Papert, a professor emeritus at MIT who is one of the initiative's founders. "We declined because it's not open source," says Dr. Papert, noting the designers want an operating system that can be tinkered with"..... OK, I know they went for Linux but how is Microsoft more "non proprietry" than OS X ? for things like word, excel, power point etc you just use OpenOffice for Mac.

Microcrap is a HELL of a lot more closed sourced than OS X, it's the antichrist of open source. If they go with M$ they're basically being complete hypocrites. And haven't these people in the third world suffered enough to then saddle them with the nightmare that is the crap out of Redmond?

[oskar]

Same discussion once again. Who cares if OS X for x86 can be hacked? As long as support isn't official, it doesn't really matter.

[ibook30]

This is a really good thing.

Educating folks will lead to jobs, jobs will give them food. All the while strengthening their economies, so they can offer a future to their children.

I have doubts about a government buying a bunch of laptops and not giveing them out. They are not very desirable laptops, adn as technology marches on, they will be worth less and less.... just doesn't look profitable.

Finally- I bet we could speed this along.. I have four PCs in my garage right now...if we all grabbed old / obsolete machines and sent them to MIT,, it would be better than letting them rot in a landfill!

[japasneezemonk]

yeah, but throw in some RAM and put windows (ew) on it, and you have a pretty good all-purpose laptop for your grammaw or something. (you know, the one that can't program her VCR. :p)

i will gladly let my grammaw know there's a laptop on the way.;)

[Lepton]

I think the offer was legit, and a good thing. And I think the turndown was regrettable but understandable, fully open source software makes sense there.

But the thing is, OSX is big. The only way this would work is if OSX was stripped down fairly substantially. I think this could be done without too much pain. So. Steve was willing to put a LOT of work into a stripped down OSX that fits in a rather minimal machine. I think Steve has given this some thought. Some substantial thought.

Remember Newton? DANG, that was a good handheld. If it had kept being worked on we would have one heck of a device today. But it was dropped. The given reason? They didn't want to have to develop and maintain two major but very different operating systems.

Look at the size of some of the computers out there. Nokia's new terminal device, PDAs, even phones running decent Linux variants. These devices are getting to be pretty good computer hardware units.

Long story short: I see a handheld. A PHONE. Running OSX. In our future. Apple branded. I give it one year.

[lexfuzo]

I can't believe they declined it! So, you are going to force the less fortunate of the world to suffer with an overly complex and inferior OS? I thought the whole idea was to help people not push your stupid open source idealism. :mad:

Mind your language, man!
If you think that Linux is "overly complex" (it's not more or less complex than Win or OSX) or "inferior" (it'll definitely be on par to OS X on these wonderfully pre-configured Notebooks!) you're not in the position to call anyone an idiot.

greetz,
-lex

[Evangelion]

I can't believe they declined it! So, you are going to force the less fortunate of the world to suffer with an overly complex and inferior OS?

What makes it "inferior"? It's actually better than OS X on many areas, like it or not.

I thought the whole idea was to help people not push your stupid open source idealism. :mad:

That "stupid open source idealism" has given you and Apple such things as the core of OS X, GCC (Xcode....), Samba (connectivity to Windows-world), Safari and lots of other goodies. Without "stupid open source idealism" you would still be running OS 9. So watch your language, buddy!

And the point of this laptop is to help them empower themselves. As nice as OS X is, how does it "empower" them, when they are reliant on Apple?

World does not revolve around OS X and Apple. I commend Jobs for his offer, but Linux is a perfect choice for a project like this.

[Stella]

Isn't a laptop a luxury?? Why are we giving this to school children not in our own countries? Why can't we just continue to build schools and provide aid in the form of food and medicine? They wouldn't be able to afford the power even if it was availible.

This makes no sense. Like buying everyone in Cambodia $500 cars just to see if they can get out of poverty.



You can give all the money in the world to poor countries to feed them but they'll never get out of their situation - they need *education*. Computers will aid greatly to that. Education that fits the need to the world today.

If they demand open source then open source is what they'll get. I see no problem with Linux on these machines.

Linux is very scalable, you can run it quite happily on a computer with very little horse power, very little storage etc ( a very low spec'ed computer - something you cannot do with OSX )

Once you've learnt one OS ( GUI ), it isn't very hard learning another - Linux -> Windows -> OSX etc. Its basically all the same idea, same ideology

[Evangelion]

Microcrap is a HELL of a lot more closed sourced than OS X, it's the antichrist of open source. If they go with M$ they're basically being complete hypocrites. And haven't these people in the third world suffered enough to then saddle them with the nightmare that is the crap out of Redmond?

Yes, we all hate Windows and Microsoft, but you should REALLY take a chill-pill!

[mac-er]

Oh, really? So these dastardly depraved empires are going to stockpile on cheap technology and hold them above grabbing height of the children that need them? No corrupt government official would have any use for a cheap laptop when they could easily buy a real computer from real bribes. Step out of your cave once in a while.


Give me a break....they wouldn't keep the laptops. They would keep the money that would be used to buy them. Step out of your cave, and stop believing that 3rd world governments give a rat's ass about anything other than staying in power.

[mac-er]

Gosh, bushisms really abound in the "land of the free"...are you the same guys that defend torture of "terrorists", deny hidden CIA torture centers in Europe or think Bush is a clean guy? Get a grip and spare us from such generic (and moronic) remarks, please...

What does this have to do with anything? I never said Bush was anything good.

I'm glad you think that the dictators of 3rd world countries are such saints and would do what they say with handouts.

Please spare us from the "generic (and moronic)" (your words) American bashing.

[Stella]

consider this deleted!!

[joeboy_45101]

This is an excellent offer. I don't believe that it had any marketing motives behind it. This organization needed an OS and Apple has a perfectly good one available, and for no charge. But, I do think it is going to take more than a $100 dollar laptop and free OS to get these children ahead in life. It's going to take things like Fair Trade and Managed Economic Growth.

[javierbds]

"We declined because it's not open source," says Dr. Papert


Is AMD open source ?
This is a lost opportunity to make more open hardware arch ...
(the free (beer) wins the over the free (open))

Hardware is software that has crystallized too early (Alan Kay dixit).

Although I agree open source is the way to go about it, I don't think the hardware side of things is very open ... Can I market an x86 processor without paying any royalties to Intel or AMD ?

They should be using SPARCs !!! :cool: (but then check the price of a sparc notebook from Sun ...) :eek:

Well, 3WC are gonna get 3WC usability : Linux (I know they have improved in the last 10 years a lot). But if linux (or most OSS) was usable I would not be here and I would not have OS X ...

[BRLawyer]

What does this have to do with anything? I never said Bush was anything good.

I'm glad you think that the dictators of 3rd world countries are such saints and would do what they say with handouts.

Please spare us from the "generic (and moronic)" (your words) American bashing.

You watch CNN or what for your daily newsfeed?

Do you have any idea about how many "3rd world" countries are out there? And how many of them are ruled by "dictators"?

Do you still think that Brazil, India, Thailand and countless others are "dictatorships"? Step out of your hole, U.S. fanboy, and stop believing in everything Mama Condoleezza, Richard Perle, Wolfowitz, Pat Robertson and others tell ya; and before attacking others, learn how to take care of your own wasted/violent turf in Louisiana, Florida and D.C..

Alas, 90% of the so-called "dictators" I have seen on this world were gladly supported by your "democracy" (including your hero Saddam Hussein), a country that doesn't even know how to count its own votes...and if you were really a "democracy", prisoners in Guantánamo would at least have an idea of what the Geneva Convention is all about.

p.s.: no need to PM me if you are to make the same great remarks in public.

[aussie_geek]

The way I see it is the $100 laptop will be a souped up Speak 'n Spell. It will be implemented so that kids in undeveloped countries will be able to understand the concept of a computer.

The use of Linux seems totally logical as that OS can be freely modified. The OS and base apps would be hard wired to the motherboard with the provision of being upgraded with additional modules using flash based memory.

The computer does not need all the functionality of a mainstream OS, just something with a graphical user interface and simple networking. Fair enough, Apple offered their OS but it would be a complete overkill.

Finding the software to run on this project is not the problem.

Finding the children who would benefit from this is not the problem.

Finding the companies who are willing to put out some cash to make this happen is the problem.

There should be no cost involved in making this thing. I can think of 10 companies worldwide with billion dollar surpluses off the top of my head who can fund this project......

[Object-X]

Mind your language, man!
If you think that Linux is "overly complex" (it's not more or less complex than Win or OSX) or "inferior" (it'll definitely be on par to OS X on these wonderfully pre-configured Notebooks!) you're not in the position to call anyone an idiot.

greetz,
-lex

If the idea is to provide third world children an inexpensive computer then putting the most user friendly and intuitive OS makes sense, especially if it is free. The fact that they rejected it because they want to "tinker" with it proves this is less about helping people and more about pushing their open source idealism, thus, my opinion is they are idiots; they can't look past themselves and do what is best for the people they are presumably trying to help! It's my opinion and I'm free to express it.

[Bern]

But will this be available to children in other countries???

[Some_Big_Spoon]

I respectfully disagree. The machines aren't designed to be "'rev'ed" and there's no more developed, stable, GUIed OS out there. Drivers are built in, machine has virtually infinte up time, protected memory support, seamless networking.. the list goes on.

I really fail to see how Red Hat can provide this. I've used Red Hat for years and even at the professional level it requires an immense amount of tinkering and tuning. I think they were high on the open-source hog and the "it's good enough" ethic that holds back computer usage/expertise.

Refusing was a good idea. MacOS X would never run well on this machine, and they'd have to rely on (i.e. wait for) Apple for updates whenever they wanted to rev the machine.

[Peace]

I think some people are missing the real point to this.
Jobs offered OSX.We dont know if that version was OSx86 or PPC or for that matter a new type streamlined build.
The real point here is Jobs offered it.
This tells me his mindset..
Somewhere in the back of his brain he's contemplating releasing OSx86 for "specific" types of hardware..
In 2 years OSx86 will be on a LOT of computers.Legally.
Just my $.02 :)

[generik]

I think Steve is warming up to the idea of MacOS on x86 :D

[Cactii]

The way I see it is the $100 laptop will be a souped up Speak 'n Spell. It will be implemented so that kids in undeveloped countries will be able to understand the concept of a computer.

The use of Linux seems totally logical as that OS can be freely modified. The OS and base apps would be hard wired to the motherboard with the provision of being upgraded with additional modules using flash based memory.

The computer does not need all the functionality of a mainstream OS, just something with a graphical user interface and simple networking. Fair enough, Apple offered their OS but it would be a complete overkill.

Finding the software to run on this project is not the problem.

Finding the children who would benefit from this is not the problem.

Finding the companies who are willing to put out some cash to make this happen is the problem.

There should be no cost involved in making this thing. I can think of 10 companies worldwide with billion dollar surpluses off the top of my head who can fund this project......


I agree, OSX would be overkill. Redhat Linux can be modified for this specific hardware. I don't think you'll get the most powerful laptop for $100, so some kind of modified Linux version makes perfect sense. As for Mr. Jobs offering OSX. well I think it was a business move. Nothing else, to show the world. "We care about the 3rd world as well"

[sjo]

Step out of your cave, and stop believing that 3rd world governments give a rat's ass about anything other than staying in power.

And you think eg US government is giving rat's ass about something else? Yeah right :)

[Gasu E.]

Your previous post was something that would come out of the mouthes of a politican. Not all African governments are corrupt, a lot yes, but not all ( as you did actually put across ). This suitation is slowly improving.
.


Actually, please check out last week's The Economist. Pretty much all African governments are corrupt, although the level of corruption varies; and although it did appear that things were getting better in some countries, it now appears that things are getting worse again.

And, just to clarify that other issue: 65% of Americans are fed up with Bush.

And, regardless of all of the above, I think the $100 laptop is a good idea, for parts of the world at least. Rural India, for example.

[noreturn]

Give me a break....they wouldn't keep the laptops. They would keep the money that would be used to buy them. Step out of your cave, and stop believing that 3rd world governments give a rat's ass about anything other than staying in power.

WTF? Oh, OK. So they'll keep the money and pretend to buy the $100 laptops. Tell me what the hell this has to do with the program, then? The same strategy can be applied to any major purchase, not just these computers.

[Peace]

I agree, OSX would be overkill. Redhat Linux can be modified for this specific hardware. I don't think you'll get the most powerful laptop for $100, so some kind of modified Linux version makes perfect sense. As for Mr. Jobs offering OSX. well I think it was a business move. Nothing else, to show the world. "We care about the 3rd world as well"

What would have happened had they accepted Job's offer?;)

[macpro2000]

Gosh, bushisms really abound in the "land of the free"...are you the same guys that defend torture of "terrorists", deny hidden CIA torture centers in Europe or think Bush is a clean guy? Get a grip and spare us from such generic (and moronic) remarks, please...


In my opinion, we are probably being too nice to these people we've captured. Who cares if we strip them if it gives us info which helps save our soldiers. I would also hope we have centers that the rest of the world didn't know about so we can conduct our side of the war without stupid media butting in. We are at war with these idiots of people and could and probably should just kill them and make it simple. It's either them or us. If you have a family or friend over there, who are you rooting for???

[mhouse]

Your previous post was something that would come out of the mouthes of a politican. Not all African governments are corrupt, a lot yes, but not all ( as you did actually put across ). This suitation is slowly improving.

You think GW Bush always does what is right for the american citizen? Nope.. Just like all other governments of the world - all of them have their own agendas.

What is your obsession with George Bush? Did *anyone* on this thread start talking about how great Bush is? Not that I saw anywhere.

I think its a neat idea so why not try it. Its not going to do much good, I think, for just the reasons that have been discussed. A lot of the "third world" has better educational standards than we do in America. Poverty has more to do with failed political systems and corruption than it does with lack of tech access.

But, again, it doesn't hurt to try I suppose.

[Peace]

This discussion is about OSX being offered NOT politics.Lets please leave politics out of this..

[wordmunger]

Clearing up several misconceptions on this thread:


The computers *will* have hard drives. They are teaching tools -- how can teaching be accomplished without the ability to save data?
The computers will be more than glorified "speak and spells." The point is to offer modern computing without the bloat of a modern OS. The monitors will be rad -- viewable with a standard backlit screen, but also in broad daylight
The computers will be sharp-looking, but also very distinctive. The point is for them to be recognizable as educational machines, to reduce the potential of theft/reselling
Open-source is a fundamental, inviolable principle of the project. Open-source software allows for maximum investment in hardware. Then the computers can be filled with free, open-source textbooks, so instead of paying hundreds of dollars for textbooks, schools can buy computers once and have access to a limitless supply of educational information.

[generik]

If the idea is to provide third world children an inexpensive computer then putting the most user friendly and intuitive OS makes sense, especially if it is free. The fact that they rejected it because they want to "tinker" with it proves this is less about helping people and more about pushing their open source idealism, thus, my opinion is they are idiots; they can't look past themselves and do what is best for the people they are presumably trying to help! It's my opinion and I'm free to express it.

It is nothing to do with open source idealism..

So, 10 years down the road when Steve decides to change his mind and charge a royalty for his "Idiotic Property", what then? All their children and now workers are trained to use that platform, which all of a sudden is creating a huge cost to doing business there.

And please don't tell me about how for a typical business wages are the largest component of cost. For those third world countries the price of a USD$2000 PM will probably buy a HOUSE there and feed a family for decades. It just doesn't equate.

And hence it is understandable why they want to stay open, there is no telling that Steve won't be like Bill.

[Gasu E.]

You watch CNN or what for your daily newsfeed?

Do you have any idea about how many "3rd world" countries are out there? And how many of them are ruled by "dictators"?

Do you still think that Brazil, India, Thailand and countless others are "dictatorships"? Step out of your hole, U.S. fanboy, and stop believing in everything Mama Condoleezza, Richard Perle, Wolfowitz, Pat Robertson and others tell ya; and before attacking others, learn how to take care of your own wasted/violent turf in Louisiana, Florida and D.C..

Alas, 90% of the so-called "dictators" I have seen on this world were gladly supported by your "democracy" (including your hero Saddam Hussein), a country that doesn't even know how to count its own votes...and if you were really a "democracy", prisoners in Guantánamo would at least have an idea of what the Geneva Convention is all about.

p.s.: no need to PM me if you are to make the same great remarks in public.


Sigh, Mr. Bush has been a great gift to Euro-America bashers. Please let us know which sclerotic nation you hail from, BR, so we can bash back. Thank you.

[Gasu E.]

consider this deleted!!

Undoubtedly, the wisest thing anyone has said in this thread! :D

[iMeowbot]

The computers *will* have hard drives. They are teaching tools -- how can teaching be accomplished without the ability to save data?
The specification is 1GB of flash. No hard drive. RAM is planned to be 256 MB.

[Peace]

The specification is 1GB of flash. No hard drive.

How would one stuff 3gigs of an OS into a 1gig Flash ?

[granex]

This is nice and all but, I think that things like food, clean water, and shelters are better to start with, then get some laptops to them :)


Not to sound too Republican, but giving them food is not going to help them grow their way out of poverty. The means need to change or there will be no change in the ends. Remember the old saying about teaching a person to fish versus giving them fish.

[oober_freak]

In my opinion, we are probably being too nice to these people we've captured. Who cares if we strip them if it gives us info which helps save our soldiers. I would also hope we have centers that the rest of the world didn't know about so we can conduct our side of the war without stupid media butting in. We are at war with these idiots of people and could and probably should just kill them and make it simple. It's either them or us. If you have a family or friend over there, who are you rooting for???


That was a very harsh comment. I am sorry.. but that wasn't exactly out of a rational person's mind. If you want me to comment on it.. fine i'll do it..

I don't understand why do you ppl have to call poor countries as third-world countries? a few years back my country was called a third-world country too... thankfully, now you call it developing. what the hell is this third-world?

Can't you just term them as poor countries? Or is that too difficult to spell?

As for Iraq.. wasn't it attacked for WMDs.. whatever they were. :rolleyes:

[iMeowbot]

How would one stuff 3gigs of an OS into a 1gig Flash ?
That's exactly why OS X is not in the running. A usable Linux system can be fit on a couple floppies.

[kimble3]

Choosing an open source OS for this machine is going to really hurt them in the end. This laptop needs to be an appliance. The target customers are going to have little/minimal technical experience. The thing needs to just work. As much success as Linux has had, it's desktop is just not suitable for this kind of market. Protest as much as you want but Linux is a geeks OS and just does not make sense for this product. They should take advantage of the great offer that Apple has made them

[mrgreen4242]

This story does sound odd.

A $100 laptop is going to be very basic. Look what is says on the BBC site about it: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4292854.stm

Its basically going to have a weak CPU powered by a handcrank! I doubt the screen could handle more then 256 colours, and i doubt the graphics card is going to handle expose very well.



There's a really good page about this project on some MIT site, going into the details. It was linked off slashdot a couple months back... ah here it is (#1 Google result for MIT $100 laptop) http://laptop.media.mit.edu/.

These are really neat! I want one! The display is full color, albeit pretty low res, but are compared to the LCDs on portable DVD players (so decent resolution and good color). They are also a dual mode technology so that they can be used as a high contrast black and white e-paper in high sunlight conditions (which is also good for low power usage).

The case is ruggedized, waterproof, and opens up like a normal laptop, or folds over for ebook style usage. The screen will also probably be a touch-screen (look at the pictures on that site). I think I remember reading that they will have 2 pointing devices on the final version. Maybe it was touch screen and an external mouse? Or maybe they wanted a touch pad in there? Can't remember and the site doesn't say. The battery is easily removable and replaceable, and can be charged with an AC adaptor (that doubles as a carrying strap) or a built in hand crank.

With a gig of flash storage, wi-fi, several USB ports, and a low power consumption 500mhz cpu there are no moving parts to fail or use extra power. I'm assuming there will be some sort of sound ports on there, as audio would be a huge learning tool for children (learning another language for example). Seems like the ideal travel mate to me. For $100 it's an amazing achievement.

Sadly they aren't planning on selling them to the public, which I think is a mistake. If they can break even on one of these at $100 (assuming they are selling at least 5 million, for example) they should sell them to public for $200 and simply donate one machine to someone who needs it. Even for $200 this would be a great deal!

Choosing an open source OS for this machine is going to really hurt them in the end. This laptop needs to be an appliance. The target customers are going to have little/minimal technical experience. The thing needs to just work. As much success as Linux has had, it's desktop is just not suitable for this kind of market. Protest as much as you want but Linux is a geeks OS and just does not make sense for this product. They should take advantage of the great offer that Apple has made them
Linux will be fine for this use. It is a completely known peice if hardware, liek a game console. There aren't thousands of different possible configurations possible that need to be accounted for and managed, just one. Once they tweak the kernel and all the drivers, and get all the software playing nice together on one machine it will be equally flawless on the rest.

[Peace]

That's exactly why OS X is not in the running. A usable Linux system can be fit on a couple floppies.

I understand that concept but even Windows or Linux weighs in over 1-2 gigs.

[macpro2000]

I think it all comes down to understanding that the U.S. isn't perfect, but it's still the best thing out there. The rest of the world is just overly jealous of us, whether they choose to admit it or not.

[iMeowbot]

I understand that concept but even Windows or Linux weighs in over 1-2 gigs.
Those are just the typical bloated distributions put together for conventional PCs. Little of that stuff is really necessary -- take a look, for example, at what even a fairly nice Mac could get by with in the mid-1990s, and those machines were more than functional enough for the kinds of things the MIT group wants to make available to students.

[ChipperVW]

Did anyone look at the pictures of the prototype $100 laptop?
Some neat ideas.

Does this mean Jobs would enable some type of "Tablet" feature in Mac OS X?

http://laptop.media.mit.edu/images/diagram1.jpg

[SiliconAddict]

I agree. As much as I like OS X anything that cheap should stick with open source. Stick with what is best on low end hardware.

[thejakill]

this reminds me of one of those jackass IBM commercials where some third world kid is walking through dirt and carrying a laptop, or the one where the little chinese girl asks the guy at the helpdesk if she can go to school. of course! she can use a laptop!

never mind that they don't have electricity, telephone lines, safe drinking water, a reliable food supply, decent clothing, medicine, etc.

they should use the money to buy them each a cow and a few chickens. it would do them more good.

[itmakesmecool]

Without all the details it is impossible to say what exactly Jobs offered for this project, it may have just been a reduced version of OSX that would run smooth and quick on these laptops.

It is also discouraging to hear people speak about how it is more important for us to be sending food and water. Do you fear that this technology might enable these children to gain an education that would allow them and their countires to rise out of poverty, there by competing for power with the more developed nations? Obviously since you are typing in this forum you have the luxary of this technology, why not share it with others?

[Stella]

I think it all comes down to understanding that the U.S. isn't perfect, but it's still the best thing out there. The rest of the world is just overly jealous of us, whether they choose to admit it or not.

ROTFL. Thanks for the laugh.

( I'm very glad to be living in Canada and really don't want to live in the US, and I'm not in the least bit jealous of the states ).

Hence, thats for the laugh, troll!!


Sorry, I shouldn't feed them!

[SiliconAddict]

I understand that concept but even Windows or Linux weighs in over 1-2 gigs.

Mwahahaha. You do realize that Linux can be trimmed down to run on practically anything. And I do mean ANYTHING (http://www.strangehorizons.com/2004/20040405/badger.shtml) :D

It currently can run off your iPod. Or run off a 512MB flash drive. I've got a nice variant of Slackware on mine with Open Office, FireFox, a few media players, and a couple other apps all easily fitting in a 2GB space with over 1.5GB to spare. Sorry dude but when it comes to size Linux kicks the snot out of Windows and OS X. Now that beig said there is a lot of functionality in X and XP that, that 512MB install of Slackware doesn't have but for the basics its tiny and that is what we are talking about right now. How thin can you get?

[Stella]

What is your obsession with George Bush? Did *anyone* on this thread start talking about how great Bush is? Not that I saw anywhere.

I think its a neat idea so why not try it. Its not going to do much good, I think, for just the reasons that have been discussed. A lot of the "third world" has better educational standards than we do in America. Poverty has more to do with failed political systems and corruption than it does with lack of tech access.

But, again, it doesn't hurt to try I suppose.
Actually, I had a change of heart really didn't want to participate in this current line of thread - so I deleted it. Unfortunately, you replied to it before.

GW Bush related - some one claimed that some one else was bashing GW Bush...

Anyway, I wasn't bashing / promoting GW Bush, I was saying that all governments do not have their citizens interests at heart ( all the time ). They have their own agendas.

[SiliconAddict]

ROTFL. Thanks for the laugh.

( I'm very glad to be living in Canada and really don't want to live in the US, and I'm not in the least bit jealous of the states ).

Hence, thats for the laugh, troll!!


Sorry, I shouldn't feed them!

Sometime troll feeding is fun. But usually it ends up with them getting in a surly mood, which is NO fun to observe. If you can try to get a troll to start arguing against the point they are trying to make. Much fun and hilarity ensues.

[Gasu E.]

ROTFL. Thanks for the laugh.

( I'm very glad to be living in Canada and really don't want to live in the US, and I'm not in the least bit jealous of the states ).

Hence, thats for the laugh, troll!!


Sorry, I shouldn't feed them!

True, but in my observation your feelings are shared pretty much only by residents of Ontario. Quebecers trust the USA more than they trust English-speaking Canadians, and western Canadians generally prefer the USA's economic system. You really don't have much of a nation up there, and it probably won't last out the century. But hey, that's cool too.

[Gasu E.]

That was a very harsh comment. I am sorry.. but that wasn't exactly out of a rational person's mind. If you want me to comment on it.. fine i'll do it..

I don't understand why do you ppl have to call poor countries as third-world countries? a few years back my country was called a third-world country too... thankfully, now you call it developing. what the hell is this third-world?

Can't you just term them as poor countries? Or is that too difficult to spell?

As for Iraq.. wasn't it attacked for WMDs.. whatever they were. :rolleyes:

"Third world" is a leftish term from the cold war that was actually intended to elevate the perception of non-aligned nations. If the "West" was the "First World", and the "Communist Bloc" was the "Second World", than everyone tended to forget that there was another group of countries that fell into a third category. Hence the idea of giving this set of nations their own label. It was a well-intentioned term that is now archaic.

[Stella]

True, but in my observation your feelings are shared pretty much only by residents of Ontario. Quebecers trust the USA more than they trust English-speaking Canadians, and western Canadians generally prefer the USA's economic system. You really don't have much of a nation up there, and it probably won't last out the century. But hey, that's cool too.

I get the impression that the rest of Canada really don't like Ontario. But thats OK, I like living here, far better than my previous country anyway. All countries have their religional differences anyway, Canada is no exception.

The way things are going, I'm not sure humans will last the century... ( mainly due to religious fanatics, trigger happy / hostile countries ).

[aliasfox]

I think its a great idea for countries that already have a modicum of stability but are generally not wealthy. For example: China may be communist and of course it has its degree of corruption (what gonverment doesn't), but the biggest problem it currently faces is the rural/urban divide. Almost the entirety of the middle class on up is located in one of a handful of coastal cities. While we see Shanghai become an economic center and Beijing rushing towards the 2008 Olympics, we also forget to notice that cities on the Chinese interior are much poorer- why shouldn't kids who grow up in those cities not have the same advantages that richer cities and more developed areas have?

On that note, why only offer these to foreign nations? There are regions in the United States that could definitely benefit from low cost computing. Inner cities, rural towns, even community colleges- these are areas where a $100 laptop can help out. Loading a year's worth of english texts onto a computer, while at the same time offering students the tool with which to write about these texts.

I think its a novel idea. BTW, how is language support in Linux?

[Abstract]

Seems to me this was most likely an offer made with (probably complete) certainty that it would be refused. Jobs will have known that they'd not allow themselves to be dependent on Apple, and that OS X wouldn't run well enough. So why make the offer? Well, great press for one thing. Karma points for ol' Steve. It's important Apple try to keep an image of generosity and caring as the OS X/Vista battle draws nearer. Gates might donate billions to charity, but people rarely remember that when their PC crashes.

I agree.

Jobsy made the offer because MS made the offer, and both knew they would get denied because it wasn't what the project was after. Not at all. If you've ever seen the concept for this machine, you'd know that it wouldn't barely be able to run Windows 95, let alone XP or OS X.

And if they took the deal, they have locked themselves into the market of many poor nations, and if they were to ever become "second-world" countries, or even 1st world countries and not be in complete poverty, Apple knows they'll be getting their business, and they'd pay next time.

yeah, but throw in some RAM and put windows (ew) on it, and you have a pretty good all-purpose laptop for your grammaw or something. (you know, the one that can't program her VCR. :p)

They would also start getting the type of viruses that they've never even heard of. :o

[Gasu E.]

And you think eg US government is giving rat's ass about something else? Yeah right :)

I disagree, slightly. Republication priorities, in order:

1. Packing Supreme Court
2. Staying in power

They clearly will risk #2 in order to accomplish #1.

[cryptochrome]

OS X may not fit the bill... but Darwin may. One of the interesting things about Darwin happens to be how they have discarded certain unix-style features in favor of cleaner, OS X style features. For instance, the lookupd and launchd services.

Future developments could include the use of OS X style frameworks which put all related resources in one package, rather than unix's mess of directories with everything spread out (bin/share/man/etc) and the associated installation and removal difficulties.

The Apple-supported development of an open source gui, limited in power but clean and functional in its execution, and with Apple's characteristic attention to detail, and perfectly suited to the education market, would be a great thing. For sure, it could be a great chance to tinker with conventional paradigms without having to worry about backwards compatibility.

And really, why should this machine be something you need to tinker with? Why not more like a game console or iPod, such that it works right to begin with and thus will work predictably and consistently for developers?

If I were Jobs, I'd just develop my own $100 laptop, using some of the same ideas from the MIT prototype and most of the cost-cutting measures, but with Apple interface design at the helm.

Also, I would include a professionally vetted version of a subset of wikipedia and dictionary in it.

OTOH, one of the major advantages of NextStep was that it could take advantage of the huge number of unix programs out there to begin with. BeOS was a rethink of computer design and did not draw on this resource. NextStep won the competition.

[dontmatter]

I think it is preposterous and selfish to look at this from the perspective of macs- this involves much bigger issues than that. On the one hand, the program sounds awesome. On the other hand, I feel like things like clean drinking water, education from teachers, and shelter are far more in need than laptops if we are trying to make this world a better place.

[PtMD]

I understand that concept but even Windows or Linux weighs in over 1-2 gigs.

Not that I am saying the following is a viable solution for this hardware, but linux can be very powerful in a small install.

Check out: http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/

Its based on Debian for x86, runs off of a business card CD, is only 50MB and it has a GUI environment with browser, etc.


PtMD

[Gasu E.]

In my opinion, we are probably being too nice to these people we've captured. Who cares if we strip them if it gives us info which helps save our soldiers. I would also hope we have centers that the rest of the world didn't know about so we can conduct our side of the war without stupid media butting in. We are at war with these idiots of people and could and probably should just kill them and make it simple. It's either them or us. If you have a family or friend over there, who are you rooting for???

I DO have friends over there, and what I am rooting for is for them to come home.

Why don't you volunteer to go over there yourself? There are plenty of crazy people on the other side; we need some insane people of our own to counter them.

[dontmatter]

In my opinion, we are probably being too nice to these people we've captured. Who cares if we strip them if it gives us info which helps save our soldiers. I would also hope we have centers that the rest of the world didn't know about so we can conduct our side of the war without stupid media butting in. We are at war with these idiots of people and could and probably should just kill them and make it simple. It's either them or us. If you have a family or friend over there, who are you rooting for???

I'm sorry, but:

Shut your damn trap and excercise a little bit of thougt and a heart.

I'm not even going to get into the political discussion as to why torture is ineffective, puts our troups in danger, nevermind major issues of morality human decency.

I just want to say, to call a whole nation idiots, and claim it is right to kill them, is heartless, mindnumbingly stupid, and abhorant.


Pardon the off topic post, and the language for which I expect a slap on the wrist, but I, being american, do not want to be reperestented by such shameful attitudes.

[Gasu E.]

I think it is preposterous and selfish to look at this from the perspective of macs- this involves much bigger issues than that. On the one hand, the program sounds awesome. On the other hand, I feel like things like clean drinking water, education from teachers, and shelter are far more in need than laptops if we are trying to make this world a better place.

Your motives are good but you are missing the bigger picture. What is needed in the places we are discussing is economic growth. And the kind of economic growth that is most needed is driven by micro -cale, start-up businesses located in the heart of the target development area. Clean drinking water, etc., won't happen unless it is in the interest of some provider to make it happen. But injections of new technology can cause positive disruption to a stagnant local economy-- witness the cellphone.

[Gasu E.]

Pardon the off topic post, and the language for which I expect a slap on the wrist, but I, being american, do not want to be reperestented by such shameful attitudes.

Here, here! The only thing I hate worse than a mindless America-basher is a mindless ugly American. I can easily laugh off America-bashing Europeans with their unabashed racism and bigotry, ultra-violent histories and stagnant, idiotic economies*; but a stupid American, I have to live with.


* these characteristics do not apply to all Europeans, but boy-oy-boy what is it with those French?

[BRLawyer]

In my opinion, we are probably being too nice to these people we've captured. Who cares if we strip them if it gives us info which helps save our soldiers. I would also hope we have centers that the rest of the world didn't know about so we can conduct our side of the war without stupid media butting in. We are at war with these idiots of people and could and probably should just kill them and make it simple. It's either them or us. If you have a family or friend over there, who are you rooting for???

Well, assuming you really mean what you just said, you are just a sorry ass example of an "American"...and it's because of people like you that terrorism exists in the first place.

By the way, you've already killed a LOT of people, not just "terrorists"...Palestine, Afghanistan and Iraq are just the most recent examples...and that's why the really civilized world cannot agree with your bullish attitude at all.

MAN THE PUMPS!

[dernhelm]

Well, assuming you really mean what you just said, you are just a sorry ass example of an "American"...and it's because of people like you that terrorism exists in the first place.

By the way, you've already killed a LOT of people, not just "terrorists"...Palestine, Afghanistan and Iraq are just the most recent examples...and that's why the really civilized world cannot agree with your bullish attitude at all.

MAN THE PUMPS!

Newsflash. He is a troll. Please do not feed the trolls.

P.S. I'm an American and I haven't killed anybody. So I would appreciate it if the "really civilized world" would cap their overt hatred of me even though they don't even know me, and have never even met me.

[mac-er]

By the way, you've already killed a LOT of people, not just "terrorists"...Palestine, Afghanistan and Iraq are just the most recent examples...and that's why the really civilized world cannot agree with your bullish attitude at all.

MAN THE PUMPS!

:rolleyes:
This coming from a continent that has been killing innocent people for thousands of years. Ever heard of the Crusades? The Inquisition? Killing of inhabitants of the New World? Two World Wars started by your continent? The Holocaust, more recently? So, please, drop the high and mighty attitude.

[SiliconAddict]

Please guys stop. . . Every time a troll wins little kittens die. Please. Think of the kittens. :(

http://photos1.blogger.com/img/198/1730/200/background.jpg

[Peace]

Mwahahaha. You do realize that Linux can be trimmed down to run on practically anything. And I do mean ANYTHING (http://www.strangehorizons.com/2004/20040405/badger.shtml) :D

It currently can run off your iPod. Or run off a 512MB flash drive. I've got a nice variant of Slackware on mine with Open Office, FireFox, a few media players, and a couple other apps all easily fitting in a 2GB space with over 1.5GB to spare. Sorry dude but when it comes to size Linux kicks the snot out of Windows and OS X. Now that beig said there is a lot of functionality in X and XP that, that 512MB install of Slackware doesn't have but for the basics its tiny and that is what we are talking about right now. How thin can you get?

Once again I get the concept :-)
<snippet>
I've got a nice variant of Slackware on mine with Open Office, FireFox, a few media players, and a couple other apps all easily fitting in a 2GB space with over 1.5GB to spare.
</snippet>
The $100 computer only has a 1 gig flash..

I mean good grief..with all the corporations that can make a tiny 20 gig HD why cant they just chip in on the deal.They can write off the expence which I'm sure the other companies involved with this project are going to do.

[SiliconAddict]

:( Gah. Just went through the last couple pages. Time for an o' fashioned moderator cleansing.

[Peace]

:( Gah. Just went through the last couple pages. Time for an o' fashioned moderator cleansing.

It's good to be king.
If just for a while.:)

[radio893fm]

I can't believe they declined it! So, you are going to force the less fortunate of the world to suffer with an overly complex and inferior OS? I thought the whole idea was to help people not push your stupid open source idealism. :mad:

This Thread is showing what I been pointing out time and time again: it is very unfortunate to have such blind fan boys-os x is superior dude, that don't let their brains kick in before they start typing.

The bottom line is, this is a very noble initiative no matter the OS, technology or whatnot... this will help and hopefully make a change! Period!

If they declined to have OS X is probably because they could not have reached the $100 mark with it to begin with.
Then, the open source community have a tendency to create more in Windows and Linux than anything else... so what makes sense? To go Linux since it is free... then you have thousand of applications to go with it that are ready...

[SiliconAddict]

Once again I get the concept :-)
<snippet>
I've got a nice variant of Slackware on mine with Open Office, FireFox, a few media players, and a couple other apps all easily fitting in a 2GB space with over 1.5GB to spare.
</snippet>
The $100 computer only has a 1 gig flash..

I mean good grief..with all the corporations that can make a tiny 20 gig HD why cant they just chip in on the deal.They can write off the expence which I'm sure the other companies involved with this project are going to do.


Because hard drives fail. That is why. Removing the hard drive and you remove the one final moving component. We had a few Windows CE based laptop systems back when MS was pushing the concept. We still use them today. That is 5 years of use and abuse. Not a single one had a problem. Low heat and no moving parts makes for a very reliable system. Also you misunderstand me. The thing easly fits in half a gig of RAM. Actually with the various installs mine takes up just over 340MB. (Just checked. Sorry, was lazy before.) These kids aren't going to be storing video or a ton of pictures. This is intended to learn on and the mesh network tech that the system will have will probably allow for one MASTER system that may have a larger drive shared out to these other computers. Who knows. Right now its highly concept driven. Since this is from MIT I fully expect to see some really cool internal designs out of this while keeping the price at that $100 level.

Also writing off something such as a hard drive. That's all well and fine for 100, 1000, 10000, or 100000 but what these guys are trying to do is create a device that can serve the poor nations of the world who have millions of people who could benefit from such a device. This isn't a short term project. This is intended to give a generation of children a leg up. What is being done here is Nobel Prize "stuff".

[Peace]

Because hard drives fail. That is why. Removing the hard drive and you remove the one final moving component. We had a few Windows CE based laptop systems back when MS was pushing the concept. We still use them today. That is 5 years of use and abuse. Not a single one had a problem. Low heat and no moving parts makes for a very reliable system. Also you misunderstand me. The thing easly fits in half a gig of RAM. Actually with the various installs mine takes up just over 340MB. (Just checked. Sorry, was lazy before.) These kids aren't going to be storing video or a ton of pictures. This is intended to learn on and the mesh network tech that the system will have will probably allow for one MASTER system that may have a larger drive shared out to these other computers. Who knows. Right now its highly concept driven. Since this is from MIT I fully expect to see some really cool internal designs out of this while keeping the price at that $100 level.

Also writing off something such as a hard drive. That's all well and fine for 100, 1000, 10000, or 100000 but what these guys are trying to do is create a device that can serve the poor nations of the world who have millions of people who could benefit from such a device. This isn't a short term project. This is intended to give a generation of children a leg up. What is being done here is Nobel Prize "stuff".

Ahhh..I understand now.
These systems will be network appliances basically..

[GorillaPaws]

Please guys stop. . . Every time a troll wins little kittens die. Please. Think of the kittens. :(

I second that motion. The place for polital discussions is in the political forum.

My thoughts on this project... WOW! If they can pull this off then I think this could be the beginning of a global educational revolution. I'm from the camp that this is just as important as many of the more basic humanitarian efforts (like food, water, shelter etc.). It's the whole teaching a man to fish thing. As far as them rejecting OSX, I can see both sides of it. I think OSX would be great if they could re-design it from the ground-up for a simple system like this where it'd only be 50-100megs (not like this is ever going to happen). But, trying to use a version of tiger isn't really going to work here, so I think they made the right call by going Linux. Hopefully, they'll strip out everything unnecessary, and get it down to bare-bones and as mal-ware-proof as possible.

Here's my main question: how many times do you have to crank that handle to get it to work for an hour?

[emotion]

This may well be a sign that steve is
ever so possibly willing lease OS X
in the future......

Clone programme anyone?

Then maybe later full OSX licensing. Apple will be the new M$?

[SiliconAddict]

Here's my main question: how many times do you have to crank that handle to get it to work for an hour?


Prob too early to tell. With a 500Mhz chip (My PDA is faster then that at this point.) and a new type of cheap display tech my total, complete, no illusions to be correct, guess may be a minute or so worth. Maybe a couple minutes. Imagine. . . Um teacher? I forgot my crank. Can I go home? :D

[Stella]

Clone programme anyone?

Then maybe later full OSX licensing. Apple will be the new M$?

At which stage, microsoft will look like hard done by Angels!

[iQuit]

For $100...it is a DAMN good laptop. It is even a tablet and media center.

[generik]

For $100...it is a DAMN good laptop. It is even a tablet and media center.

Who knows maybe Steve can provide PBs for them at $100. They sure seem to be on the cheap side nowadays :D

[Psychic Shopper]

Over the years Apple has made a lot of money off of US schools. Apple offers the schools a "discount"and they snap it up. Imagine if Apple had made the same offer to US schools-build a cheap laptop and we'll supply the OS for free, instead of just giving them a discount.

[electronboy]

One Laptop Per Child sounds like a really good program though.

Uh, NO. One laptop per child is excessive. Think of all the landfill trash the packaging and used units would create in next ten years :eek: They would likely be sold or traded for food or some other item. :(

[pubwvj]

Yes, it is a marketing ploy and a very good one. It would benefit the users of those machines greatly. Jobs should offer to provide free copies of MacOSX and he should offer a $100 million in funding donation if they use MacOSX and stick with it AND Jobs should offer to create a special version that is capable of running well on the designated hardware. People who like it will want to upgrade to real Macs when they are able to do so so it will not hurt Mac sales in the slightest.

Moreover this would give Jobs the opportunity to create a very low cost notebook system, <$300 to be the machine above these machines but below existing Macs. We need something like that. Ideally it should come in a small form factor that can be put in a pocket.

MacOSX is better than open source solutions. and it will be very bad for the users if they go with Windows.

[electronboy]

it's because of people like you that terrorism exists in the first place.

Yawn. Nothing but a troll. Moving along.

[JeffTL]

Quick comment for those who think Linux is too complex. Ever heard of TiVo? Preinstalled on specially designed hardware, Linux can be easier to use than OS X.



Over the years Apple has made a lot of money off of US schools. Apple offers the schools a "discount"and they snap it up. Imagine if Apple had made the same offer to US schools-build a cheap laptop and we'll supply the OS for free, instead of just giving them a discount.


Well, for starters, they'd be broke, and the investors would sue the execs after the company folded.

[thedude110]

My thoughts on this project... WOW! If they can pull this off then I think this could be the beginning of a global educational revolution.


Um, well, laptops are a start, but let's not get crazy. Well trained teachers, small class sizes, sound pedagogy, toss in some collaborative learning -- THEN we're talking about a global educational revolution ...

[geese]

Uh, NO. One laptop per child is excessive. Think of all the landfill trash the packaging and used units would create in next ten years :eek: They would likely be sold or traded for food or some other item. :(

Yeah, cos its not a problem if the west is making and disposing plastic ***** left right and centre, but if its poor africans making rubbish- NO!

I work for a development agency, DFID as it happenshttp://www.dfid.gov.uk. Its easy to think that developing countries are one starving, poverty sticken hoard as its portrayed in the media. The levels and types of poverty are very different. Some people do have more urgent problems then laptops for their kids, but for many communities in South America, Asia and Africa it'll be an immense benefit. Imagine if how much education costs could be reduced if they didnt have to buy books for all the kids in a village school? It could all be replaced by a laptop. And with the power of multimedia- think how effective the learning could be.

Another point- the view that all developing country governments are corrupt and will hoard the cash is a little too simple. Obviously there is corruption, but then you could easily find it in the US, EU, and the UK. There are ways of by-passing corruption- donor countries can sign a deal with those governments to ensure these laptops are delivered sensibly and as agreed (it will be observed by the donot country as well, and if they mess-up no more funding for next year). Or Non-Governmental organisations would distribute the laptops directly.

In spite of the problems in the developing world- things ARE improving. Governments ARE spending more on education and there ARE success stories.

[macpro2000]

ROTFL. Thanks for the laugh.

( I'm very glad to be living in Canada and really don't want to live in the US, and I'm not in the least bit jealous of the states ).

Hence, thats for the laugh, troll!!


Sorry, I shouldn't feed them!


Hence, that why I said whether they admit it or not. Nuff said.

[FoxyKaye]

Wow - what happened to this thread? Before lunch it was a speculative discussion, after lunch it became a mis-informed rant about the politics of developing countries.

Anyhow, a couple points stick in my mind regarding these laptops and OS X:

* Since I seem to understand that the weight of OS X is in everything built on top of Darwin, maybe Apple has a way of scaling it to fit various hardware configurations. This of course leads to natural speculation as to whether or not it could be scaled for a PDA (which, in themselves, are now becoming mini computers) or onto different hardware configurations (since the laptops are AMD-based). Steve may be at least ruminating on the future of OS X here, and who knows if he is really so against having it being able to be installed on other manufacturer's computers.

The cynic in me says that he's just slutting for publicity. Since the MIT laptops are smartly designed for Linux, I think he's just trying to insert Apple's name into an arena of perceived innovation. It's not that the laptops ever will run OS X, it's just that Steve Jobs says they could and that's Apple being innovative again. Easy publicity without having a hard news item.

* There are plenty of schools right here in the U.S. who could take advantage of these laptops. Somehow, it seems like we're looking at this project through adult and tech-saavy eyes - if the end users have no basis for comparison, any computer is a good computer. Plus, they're really designed for children - it's not like anyone using these laptops is going to ask them for advanced PhotoShop rendering or sound editing in Logic - they want to look at the Internet, write documents in some kind of word processor, and do other basic tasks. If all I ever needed (or wanted, which is a big factor for all of us on MR) was to do these things, then in most ways my Magnavox 386sx laptop running Windows 3.1 and WordPerfect 5.1 is still adequate - it won't render the Internet anymore, but modern hardware and Linux will.

[corywoolf]

Perfect, finally a solution for the public schools of detroit that can't afford toilet paper for the kids (not joking either).

[FoxyKaye]

Perfect, finally a solution for the public schools of detroit that can't afford toilet paper for the kids (not joking either).
The situation isn't much better in Oakland. No child left behind and all...:rolleyes:

You do have to wonder, though, where the money will come from. And a project like this raises the additional question of the ends justifying the means: is it better that some more students get tools for education and fewer students still remain without proper resources, or, isn't the goal of education to elevate all students, equally? I'd even go as far as to say that although there are schools here in the U.S. who might buy a bundle of these laptops, when the average dollar per student ratio is much less than $100 in many schools, would the ultimate effect be to make the divide even wider? Good observation corywoolf.

[chatin]

Ubuntu Linux, generously funded by Mark Shuttleworth (who sold his company Thawte to Veritas for 600 mil) is now the cutting edge in beginner's Linux.

:confused: :rolleyes:

[susannahyork]

"Researchers from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology will unveil a $100 laptop computer that can be powered by a hand crank in areas without a reliable supply of electricity."


that came from cnn.com

it was mentioned that the computers were designed by MIT, but they will also be powered my a hand crank (which would make viewing porn interesting).:eek:

usually a computer results in a hand crank, not the other way around!:p

[Mechcozmo]

Gosh, bushisms really abound in the "land of the free"...are you the same guys that defend torture of "terrorists", deny hidden CIA torture centers in Europe or think Bush is a clean guy? Get a grip and spare us from such generic (and moronic) remarks, please...

Politics in the political forum, where you won't insult others and yourself.

Do you still think that Brazil, India, Thailand and countless others are "dictatorships"? Step out of your hole, U.S. fanboy, and stop believing in everything Mama Condoleezza, Richard Perle, Wolfowitz, Pat Robertson and others tell ya; and before attacking others, learn how to take care of your own wasted/violent turf in Louisiana, Florida and D.C..

Politics in the political forum, where you won't insult others and yourself.

:mad:

[Stene]

Since QuickTime offers a complete multimedia platform not only limiting itself to being a multimedia player and the learning resources needed should allow for usage of multimedia - then the development of a version of QuickTime is a good idea.

This exposes the QuickTime platform to a very much larger audience in the future...

http://insight.zdnet.co.uk/software/0,39020463,39236745,00.htm

One install covering close to all the significant standards for a multitude of media - a very good idea...

Maybe even a "Yellow Box" for Linux?

[Mechcozmo]

I can't tell if you were trying to be funny, but I kind of like this idea :) At least a ruggedized, alternative power version of this would be appropriate.

I've seen them around... they were designed for bar code scanning, but they were color Palm III devices and could probably work off of a hand crank with little effort.

The fact that they rejected it because they want to "tinker" with it proves this is less about helping people and more about pushing their open source idealism, thus, my opinion is they are idiots; they can't look past themselves and do what is best for the people they are presumably trying to help! It's my opinion and I'm free to express it.

Most likely, it is because OS X would require then to change their hardware to suit their software. With Linux or BSD they can change the software to suit the hardware. Also, it had been a requirement for the project that the software be open-source... Jobs wouldn't have had a chance because they were following their own guidelines.

I understand that concept but even Windows or Linux weighs in over 1-2 gigs.
Well... Linux can take up a 1.44 MB floppy all the way up to two DVDs. Knoppix (Linkety) (http://www.knoppix.org/) can store 2 GB worth of data onto a 700MB CD. :)

The situation isn't much better in Oakland. No child left behind and all...:rolleyes:
No child with a wiped behind?:confused: ;)

[Stella]

Hence, that why I said whether they admit it or not. Nuff said.

Classic example of:
DON'T FEED THE TROLLS.

[joecool85]

As much as I love OS X, I think it makes sense to keep it open source and use Linux.

[Willie Sippel]

The Linux-bashing is quite funny (I've seen worse on other Mac-sites on that topic, but still), it shows that even UNIX users have no idea what Linux is. I would have expected uninformed crap from a Windows forum, but it seems Mac fanboys are worse...

1.) Linux' scalability is way better than Darwins. A regular, of the shelf kernel runs on everything from a PDA to a 256 CPU Itanium2/ Myrinet supercomputer. It's also more powerful and faster, and tweaked for low-end and embedded systems. Running the GNU OS on top of Darwin instead of Linux would be very stupid, as Linux is leaps and bounds beyond. The only reason Apple choose Darwin/ FreeBSD was the license, not technical merits.

2.) The MIT notebook won't use a regular RedHat Linux, RedHat engineers are designing a custom distro for that specific notebook.

3.) Linux is not hard to use or set up. It could be as easy as OSX, or even easier. It depends on the platform and the designated use. Since the distro will designed for that notebook, installing it will be as easy as it gets, as there's no need to configure _anything_.

4.) The MIT choose Linux for several reasons (flexibility, availabilty, cost), but there's more. The open source idea is a major factor. The community will testdrive the software, will make additions, suggestions, will fix bugs - for free. Even if Apple were willing to offer equal support, they could never afford it. There's lots of software available for free, in many languages. Is OSX available Khmer or Vietnamese?

5.) Of course, the spirit of open source is also an issue. If the people that work with those notebooks understand that software and information should be free, and since the MIT intends to even ship basic programming languages and IDEs with their notebook, there's hope that people in Cambodia or wherever will join the community.

So, Linux is the only viable option. Bill knows that, Steve knows that, everybody knows that. The offer was a marketing stunt. A bad one, I might add, because Apple knew the MIT would turn it down. The MIT asked for screwdrivers, Apple offered free pencils. That seems nice, but it's not what the MIT needs. So, the offer either was a stunt or stupid...

[beatle888]

what type of applications will they teach running linux?

[SPUY767]

So he expects children to run Red hat. . . Nope. Not gonna happen. Even ubuntu, with probably the simplest interface and most straightforward controls is a pain to run compared to X. Furthermore, open source support is a crock; you generally get what you pay for, and since you're paying nothing, you're getting nothing. open source support might belikened to posting a question on a blog and maybe someone stumbling across it six months later.

What kind of real-world computing skills is someone gonna learn running linux. I don't recall seeing a job posting for a script kiddie or a 1337 h4X0|2. . .

Get real. I don't care how you spin it. With a few exceptions, Open source just doesn't measure up to commercial.

[zim]

If I was Steve, and I am not, I would go back to my office sit down and come up with an apple variation but not just for developing countries, it would be for the whole world. There are kids here in the US who still don't have access to technology, putting them at a disadvantage to those that do. I think it would be great if Apple could come up with a special laptop just for kids in school... I bet apple could also make it visually appealing to kids.

[NicP]

If the idea is to provide third world children an inexpensive computer then putting the most user friendly and intuitive OS makes sense, especially if it is free. The fact that they rejected it because they want to "tinker" with it proves this is less about helping people and more about pushing their open source idealism, thus, my opinion is they are idiots; they can't look past themselves and do what is best for the people they are presumably trying to help! It's my opinion and I'm free to express it.

I disagree with your opinion

OSX will run like crap on a cheap machine

Linux will allow the creators to "tinker" with it, the will be able to optimise the software for the hardware and make everything work properly.

Linux is hardly an inferior OS, the biggest gripes i have with it is not being able to run commercial software (like ableton live) and the ocassional setup problem, which, if you know what your doing is almost always relativley trivial to fix.

In these circumstances i dont see anyone trying to run commercial apps, one they cant afford to buy it, and two it'll run like crap on a $100 computer. There will be no setup problems because the creators will be doing all the setting up to make the software perfectly fit the hardware.

If they didnt choose linux MS would be the next logical choice *shudders*, after all 95% of people use it.

[thejadedmonkey]

If I was Steve, and I am not, I would go back to my office sit down and come up with an apple variation but not just for developing countries, it would be for the whole world. There are kids here in the US who still don't have access to technology, putting them at a disadvantage to those that do. I think it would be great if Apple could come up with a special laptop just for kids in school... I bet apple could also make it visually appealing to kids.

This would be cool
So basically, drop everything from the current laptops BUT USB, Modem, and E-net, put it all in a 12" ibook running ~ 800mhz with 16megs of VRAM and 256megs of RAM and a 20 gig hard drive, and sell it for $350, BTO option of wireless. No mid-ranged consumer would buy it, it's too slow and outdated. everyone else...you bet they would.

Apple could even ship it with the full Wikipedia site downloaded and saved onto hard disk (great for research!), iWorks, iLife, and have a $5/year 800 number for limited dial-up internet (ie email and text IM's, and updates only).

On second thought...for $350, I would buy that in a heartbeat.
Hell, if someone could come up with a way to download wikipedia onto my hard drive...that in itself is almost worth the $350!

[NicP]

So he expects children to run Red hat. . . Nope. Not gonna happen. Even ubuntu, with probably the simplest interface and most straightforward controls is a pain to run compared to X. Furthermore, open source support is a crock; you generally get what you pay for, and since you're paying nothing, you're getting nothing. open source support might belikened to posting a question on a blog and maybe someone stumbling across it six months later.

What kind of real-world computing skills is someone gonna learn running linux. I don't recall seeing a job posting for a script kiddie or a 1337 h4X0|2. . .

Get real. I don't care how you spin it. With a few exceptions, Open source just doesn't measure up to commercial.

lol youre kidding right?

I dont see how ubuntu is a pain i run it everyday, my girlfriend can easily use my computer but sit her down at a mac and she just cant comprehend how it works and how to use it.

As for support the online community is great, and if you want "real" support then companies are more than happy to give it to you for a suitable fee. Redhat is probably going to provide some kind of basic support or something for the systems.

What kind of real world skills are they gonna learn?? huh?? i dont see where you are coming from with this one. If they did chose to go with OSX they would be installing exactly the same open source (and thus free) applications that they are on linux, for example open office. So all the skills they would learn if they were using OSX instead.

Additionally people should be taught to use computers, not to use applications. Many people are taught to use applications and just remember how to do stuff rather than thinking logically about it. If you are taught to use a computer rather than just use a handfull of applications it should be relatively trivial to use different applications and different operating systems.

[SPUY767]

How about we feed them first. Then we'll worry about computers. . . eh?

[maya]

The $100 notebook is an old concept (one that Walmart had as well).

Having OS X (whatever version) running on it, is partially a new idea. I say this because back then no one knew for fact that OS X existed for x86 and now since it does well the rest pretty much falls into place. ;) :)

[maya]

How about we feed them first. Then we'll worry about computers. . . eh?

That would be of much more importance. Without food, clothes, shelter, and first-aid, what good does an education/entertainment PRODUCT be of value other than to sell it for money, food, clothes, shelter and first-aid. :)

It's all about market-share, no one cares as to what is more important. Exploitation of the developing 3rd world countries. :rolleyes:

[Mechcozmo]

Classic example of:
DON'T FEED THE TROLLS.

Sounds like a job for my 'tar. :D

So he expects children to run Red hat. . . Nope. Not gonna happen. Even ubuntu, with probably the simplest interface and most straightforward controls is a pain to run compared to X. Furthermore, open source support is a crock; you generally get what you pay for, and since you're paying nothing, you're getting nothing. open source support might belikened to posting a question on a blog and maybe someone stumbling across it six months later.

What kind of real-world computing skills is someone gonna learn running linux. I don't recall seeing a job posting for a script kiddie or a 1337 h4X0|2. . .

Get real. I don't care how you spin it. With a few exceptions, Open source just doesn't measure up to commercial.

Red Hat engineers doesn't mean Red Hat will be installed. And I've found Ubuntu... different. Not a pain or anything, but different. It takes some getting used to from an OS X and Windows power user, but it is not BAD. Although I have to agree on the open-source support... not quite as helpful as I'd like, but the people that this laptop is designed for won't be needing that kind of support. The distro that will be made will be designed so that the people never have to open a Terminal window. It is going to be designed so that they can help themselves by playing with it, by reading the books that come on it. They aren't going to be a Gentoo "compile this and manually link your dependencies" thing. It will be a Ubuntu-style "No worries, simple and easy!" thing. Yes, you may not like open-source... but when it works right, look at the good. Linksys routers, TiVo set-tops, Playstation 2 and 3... Firefox, anyone?

[Stella]

removed, since i didn't read the post above which says basically the same thing i wanted to say.

this would be a duplicate!

[mjstew33]

Those people are really stupid, in my honest opinion. Mac OS X Tiger for free?!?! Wow.. :rolleyes:

[winmacguy]

Microcrap is a HELL of a lot more closed sourced than OS X, it's the antichrist of open source. If they go with M$ they're basically being complete hypocrites. And haven't these people in the third world suffered enough to then saddle them with the nightmare that is the crap out of Redmond?
Agreed. I guess people think that because Microsoft will licence their operating system to anyone who wants to write stuff for it that it is "open" compared to OS X. How ever that fact that they have gone for Linux which is trully open source makes that argument null and void.

[Lacero]

I think it's a bad idea of one laptop for every student. They're just going to use it to IM each other silly 'lolz!1!!' messages and surf the net looking for porn.

[SPUY767]

Those people are really stupid, in my honest opinion. Mac OS X Tiger for free?!?! Wow.. :rolleyes:

Agreed, but the open-source gurus who thinks that it's the greatest thing since sliced bread will come out of the woodwork to say differently. That is the reason that i chose to get right sdown to the bottom of the issue and say what needed to be said.


On a lighter note, anyone remember that movie, "The gods Must be Crazy"? Where the movie crew drops the coke bottle on the african tribe who proceeds to argue about its origin and its purpose? That's what I imagine a computer in Burundi being like, people have to eat bugs to survive, I don't think they give a damn about computers.

[savar]

For a $100 laptop, you have to buy your own:

1. RAM
2. Hard drive
3. Keyboard and mouse (no trackpad included)
4. External speaker (no built in)
5. Power cord

What? Are you quoting actual specifications? My understanding is that the most recent prototype, which was a litlte under $200, had a compact flash drive instead of magnetic drive, no mouse or speaker, but did have a keyboard, trackpad, and power cord, as well as a hand-crank generator. basically, it was ready to use off the shelf, but with compromises made in order to meet such a radically low price point.

[savar]

Hey Einstein, someone else buys the laptop for $100, and gives it to the kids.

Haha, exactly...who thinks starving kids in Africa have $100? $100 is a couple months of food for a family of 4. (Keep in mind the dollar is highly valuable relative to many African currencies.) I'm not sure people won't take them and resell them, but certainly most of these won't be paid for by their primary owners.

[Seasought]

The new $100 laptop will be powered by an AMD processor running Red Hat Linux.

lol

Not to be mean or anything but it seems kind of sadistic to hand Red Hat Linux to kids in developing nations.

"A computer! Wow, thanks!"

*boots up*

"Wtf is this?!" (tosses the laptop into the trash) :D

[CHess]

In my opinion, we are probably being too nice to these people we've captured. Who cares if we strip them if it gives us info which helps save our soldiers. I would also hope we have centers that the rest of the world didn't know about so we can conduct our side of the war without stupid media butting in. We are at war with these idiots of people and could and probably should just kill them and make it simple. It's either them or us. If you have a family or friend over there, who are you rooting for???


It saddens me that so people in this country live with this kind of mindset. Also, that a discussion about Jobs offering an OS for free to a project to help people in underdeveloped countries turns into quotes like these.:(

[alandail]

from the faq

http://laptop.media.mit.edu/faq.html

The $100 laptop is being developed by One Laptop per Child (OLPC), an independent, non-profit association based on the "constructionist" theories of learning pioneered by Seymour Papert and later Alan Kay. It is totally separate from MIT, with its own board, executives, location, and staff. Its founding members are AMD, Brightstar, Google, News Corporation, and Red Hat, all of whom have funded both OLPC and the MIT Media Lab.

could that be why they turned Apple down?

Great idea, bad decision to turn down Apple.

Look at some of the people involved:

Nicholas Negroponte
Mary Lou Jepsen

Walter Bender
Michail Bletsas
V. Michael Bove, Jr.
David Cavallo
Benjamin Mako Hill
Joseph Jacobson
Alan Kay
Tod Machover
Seymour Papert
Mitchel Resnick
Ted Selker

http://laptop.media.mit.edu/principals.html

[EricNau]

It's too bad they declined to use OS X, but I guess I understand. As long as they don't put Windows on them, it'll be fine.

Isn't part of OS X Open? (like Open GL, or something?)

EDIT: Just looked it up, Apple does have Open GL, but that's not what the $100 laptop people want, they want it to be more open, I guess.

[aspro]

I think they made the best decision, the last thing a developing country needs is to be even further tied to external interests, at least with free software if they run out of money and favour they can continue developing their software.

Plus I'm sure that the only reason we think linux is odd or difficult is because we are brought up on something else, these guys dont have anything else so they will find it relatively easy to learn I would imagine. I mean many of us learnt how to use the most primitive of operating systems when we first learnt computing.

[pizzach]

I would be infinitely greatful to Steve Jobs for offering Mac OS X, but there is just no way it would work out.

1. I wouldn't picture the laptops running such an advanced OS all that well.

2. With open source linux you geat a much broader easier access to free programs that are always being updated. I could imagine it now. They upgrade they make OS with a few monthes worth of food. Then they realize they need to throw away another 6 monthes to upgrade office because it isn't compatible. :) Talk about fasting.

And no, I don't think Microsoft really had a real chance either.

[groovebuster]

Sorry guys, but some of the commenst in here are really ignorant...

Mac OS X might be a nice OS, but it is a commercial OS! Period!

They don't want to be dependent on one Software vendor for no good reason. Linux will be around as long as there will be computers and it will be for free. On top they can tweak it the way the need it. This is one big advantage of Linux over any other commercial OS out there: No dependencies!

And for those who think that Linux will be a nightmare for the students are ignorant too. Do you really think they will hand the laptop and an installer CD to the students? The OS will be customized exactly the way the students need it and it will be pre-installed. When they boot it up it will do exactly what it is supposed to do.

I am also a Mac-Head, but for this purpose Linux is clearly the better choice.

groovebuster

[lolex]

I think it's a bad idea of one laptop for every student. They're just going to use it to IM each other silly 'lolz!1!!' messages and surf the net looking for porn.

Totally agreed to your point, this is unnecessary to get everyone has a pc,
the most important is to enhance their knowledge, broaden their horizons to see
things, it just ridiculous to give someone the developing country an advance device that equiped with WIFI, TOUCH SCREEN, LINUX CODED, DOES ALMOST ANY THING A LAPTOP WOULD DO, which normally would carrys by JAMES BOND.

It was just like someboby knocking my door, I opens and he says'

" Hi, We are going to make everyone a chance to go visits the moon , and you're the first one gifted the ticket, so get your things ready and we'll embark tomorrow !!"

" get the silly out of here!! I 'm on my way finishing a game, go freaky with others!! " :)

Who wants a ticket visits the moon, who need a laptop ???

Just let me has clean water, let me has shelters, n bulids me a school !!!!

They in MIT are so respectful , mature enough not to be doing kiddings like this.

[MacDust]

From their own website

In one Cambodian village where we have been working, there is no electricity, thus the laptop is, among other things, the brightest light source in the home.

http://laptop.media.mit.edu/faq.html

Great use for this program, sounds like a real winner!

[oskar]

(Snip...) which normally would carrys by JAMES BOND.[/b]

It was just like someboby knocking my door, I opens and he says'

" Hi, We are going to make everyone a chance to go visits the moon , and you're the first one gifted the ticket, so get your things ready and we'll embark tomorrow !!"

" get the silly out of here!! I 'm on my way finishing a game, go freaky with others!! " :)

Who wants a ticket visits the moon, who need a laptop ???

Just let me has clean water, let me has shelters, n bulids me a school !!!!

They in MIT are so respectful , mature enough not to be doing kiddings like this.

What?
:confused: :confused: :confused:

LOL! Sorry but couldn't help myself... what the heck was that? :p

[oskar]

From their own website

In one Cambodian village where we have been working, there is no electricity, thus the laptop is, among other things, the brightest light source in the home.

http://laptop.media.mit.edu/faq.html

Great use for this program, sounds like a real winner!

I'm guessing that was a joke, right?

[Evangelion]

So he expects children to run Red hat. . . Nope. Not gonna happen. Even ubuntu, with probably the simplest interface and most straightforward controls is a pain to run compared to X.

Depends on what you do with it. Everyday usage is just as easy (no, you don't have to edit text-files if you don't want to), if not easier.

Furthermore, open source support is a crock; you generally get what you pay for, and since you're paying nothing, you're getting nothing.

I'm sorry, but you have zero clue what you are talking about. No, really. I have personally had situations where I have been in direct contact with the developers of an app when I have had problems. I have had situations where I have provided feedback on an app, and it was fixed about 2 hours later!

I have also experience with Apple's tech-support (when my iPod b0rked itself). They just gave me the generic reply: "restore the iPod to factory-settings". Um gee, thanks guys for kick-ass support!

You are saying that you wont get any support with open source. That is pure, 100% BS.

What kind of real-world computing skills is someone gonna learn running linux. I don't recall seeing a job posting for a script kiddie or a 1337 h4X0|2

Same logic: what kind of real-world computing-skills is someone gonna learn running OS X? Photoshopping?

Seriously, Linux simply enables the user to do more. The source is all there. You might not find it interesting and worthwhile, but CS-students and other interested people will. And they can dive deep in to the code, modify it and learn from it.

Get real. I don't care how you spin it. With a few exceptions, Open source just doesn't measure up to commercial.

Which is why Apple DIDN'T build their OS, developer-tools, browser, server-tools etc. etc. on open source? Oh, they did? That's what I thought....

Seriously: why do you people hate Linux and open source? Are you afraid it's going to steal OS X's thunder or something? Linux and OS X can co-exists beautifully. Linux and Mac-communities could co-exist beautifully. Same could not be said about Linux and MS/Windows or OS X/Apple and MS/Windows. Yet you people are constantly attacking the thing that could be one of your biggest friends and allies! It just boggles the mind!

[SiliconAddict]

What?
:confused: :confused: :confused:

LOL! Sorry but couldn't help myself... what the heck was that? :p

Obviously English isn't his first language....so a little slack is warranted. I'm still trying to figure out if he was being facetious or not. :confused:

[SiliconAddict]

That's what I imagine a computer in Burundi being like, people have to eat bugs to survive, I don't think they give a damn about computers.

Umm do you have any idea what conditions are in other countries or where these laptops would be targeted? If not then please stop talking like the expert. I'm so sick of coming onto these threads to see people mouth off like they are the final word on a topic. The reality is these laptops would be perfect for the schools that are getting American second, in some cases third hand junk e.g. 8088’s, 286's, 386’s and in many cases end up being discarded as junk.
These computers would be perfect as an introduction to computer technology. The digital divide extends beyond just those in this country. If 3rd world countries don't start catching up they are going to be pretty much doomed in this century and won’t stand a chance of competing in the world market in the next 100 years.
Can you really argue that technology is going to become less ingrained into all of human society in the future? Yes reading, writing, arithmetic are all important skills but knowing how to manipulate a computer is going to be critical in the 21st century’s workforce and that doesn’t just apply to the Americas, to Europe, or to Asia. The world is going to have to know how to use a computer at some point.
So please. You aren’t an expert. Nor am I. However at least I am willing to keep an open mind to both opinions without spouting out know-it-all crud.

[monkey egg]

I think anything - ANYTHING - is better than nothing...

I sure hope the intended recipients also have a reliable power supply. I visited Vietnam in 2002 and the internet cafes A) all use pirate copies of Windows and B) need huge numbers of car batteries in the corner of the room to level out the spikes and troughs in the power, not to mention all the brown outs that happen...

A wind up radio has been successful in Africa - maybe a wind up laptop is round the corner? If they can get the CPU power requirements down low enough?

[oskar]

Obviously English isn't his first language....so a little slack is warranted. I'm still trying to figure out if he was being facetious or not. :confused:

:o Yeah, I checked out his profile afterwards and kind of realized that. Didn't mean to be too picky, just that I didn't understand anything he was trying to say. :D

[BRLawyer]

Umm do you have any idea what conditions are in other countries or where these laptops would be targeted? If not then please stop talking like the expert. I'm so sick of coming onto these threads to see people mouth off like they are the final word on a topic. The reality is these laptops would be perfect for the schools that are getting American second, in some cases third hand junk e.g. 8088’s, 286's, 386’s and in many cases end up being discarded as junk.
These computers would be perfect as an introduction to computer technology. The digital divide extends beyond just those in this country. If 3rd world countries don't start catching up they are going to be pretty much doomed in this century and won’t stand a chance of competing in the world market in the next 100 years.
Can you really argue that technology is going to become less ingrained into all of human society in the future? Yes reading, writing, arithmetic are all important skills but knowing how to manipulate a computer is going to be critical in the 21st century’s workforce and that doesn’t just apply to the Americas, to Europe, or to Asia. The world is going to have to know how to use a computer at some point.
So please. You aren’t an expert. Nor am I. However at least I am willing to keep an open mind to both opinions without spouting out know-it-all crud.

Exactly, some people have no clue...this program is primarily directed at countries that may already put digital integration as a priority (since other needs can be dealt with under other assistance programs), such as Brazil, China, India and Thailand...these are "advanced developing countries", which have money to spare and a crucial need for capacity building in the near future.

This is also true for poorer or more remote areas in the U.S. and Eastern Europe, which still lag behind in terms of access to computers.

Many of the LDCs (least-developed countries) in Africa/Asia/Latin America may obviously benefit from the program, but if you all read the article with some attention, you will see that they are NOT the first receivers of such help, as they have to rely on foreign assistance in an almost complete fashion; indeed, they still have some bigger fish to fry.

Having said that, if we are to follow the "O.C. kids" mentality, poorer countries will NEVER have access to technology (and, consequently, good and integrated education)...I truly hope that program bears some fruit to all, even if it's with a crappy/ridiculous Linux inside.

[lolex]

What?
:confused: :confused: :confused:

LOL! Sorry but couldn't help myself... what the heck was that? :p


Dude...easy....apologizes for my bad english, and confusing you guys :)

What MIT is now going to do is understandable , and their sentiments are respectful.

I'm just feeling that peoples in undevelope country may need some subsidiary in their infrastructuresmore more urgently than a decent laptop, like a stable shelter, clean water supply, and most important , a school with fairly good facilities to learn.

What interesting me is the laptop they're going to develope would equips with
advance technologies: Tablet screen, WIFI connectivity, Light weight, wind-up rechargable battery etc. which is fairly not owned by majority of people in developed country, isn't it ironic ??

A better farming technology , a technology to help build infrastructures for water and power supply is just what their need in this minute, once they gain a better way to live , they will know what a laptop is for. :)

Moreover, it's unnecessarily to develope such a laptop intentively for this purpose, there're tons of obsolete computer wares out there which are enough to build decent networks for thousands of schools anywhere anytime in needed. Why don't just make a recycle campaign for them,acquires a primary OS to runs with, elobrates an efficient logistic system in distribution, everybody benefits then.

[Stella]

I wish people would read the actual article before posting... they wouldn't come out with comments such as


- but they have no electricity
- they need feeding first
- it should run OSX ( when its obvious that the laptop is not powerful enough )
- $100 is too expensive for the starving in Africa
- the main organisation behind this is just out for profit

And so on...

RTFA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Stella]

and on, and on, and on.

[AlmostThere]

This only seems to have been touched, or I missed the posts, but I very much doubt that SJ or Apple are really offering OS X for free. The point about open source is that it comes with no restrictions on usage, no legally binding clauses and fixes, patches and improvements can be freely redistributed. The zero cost thing is always a bonus.

You don't have to be talking about re-writing the kernel, but those using these computers in the field are almost certainly going to find novel uses for the computers, for example, they may well be used (in part) to help manage social or commercial developments, or help farmers manage their crops or simply help families manage on very tight budgets. Many children have to combine education with work to make ends meet and the idea is that this computer is theirs to take home and apply as they see fit. Apple and MS already apply restrictions on purchases made for research and educational use, server licences cover different numbers of networked computers, despite identical software in the box .

Where local skills exist to implement these changes, they want to be able to freely share them with the community at large. A problem solved in the Far East might have applicability to somewhere in Central America or even back in the MIT Lab. Will Apple allow this re-distribution of their software?

If the local software development skills do not exist, will Apple be prioritising development to implement specific requirements? A large, open source community can react to these needs, whereas Apple would be constantly having to balance support with commercial obligations. A charitable gesture is all well and good, but what about the sustained support that really makes a difference. Freedom at all levels is about enabling people to support themselves, not dependance on a third party.

The last thing a developing nation want to be dealing with is a law suit with a developed one and a suitable open-source licence clears the need for expensive and unnecessary lawyers and risk.


The aid to education of using a laptop, which might seem like an expensive luxury, is that it negates the need for the constant resupply of consumables. Villages do not need constant telecommunications or power to run these laptops. They have built in peer to peer networking, one computer can download text books over night and share them with the rest of the class. Traditional replacements not only need lorries to deliver them, on a regular basis, but the paper used degrades in many environments. Consumables can be removed from the equation, too. Homework can be written up on the laptop and transferred for marking to the teachers computer. Overall, one single delivery and an intermittent phone connection can run a school for years, allowing it to develop and build unhindered by many of the constraints that inaccessibility creates.

Sorry for duplication with previous posts.

[AlmostThere]

A better farming technology, a technology to help build infrastructures for water and power supply is just what their need in this minute, once they gain a better way to live, they will know what a laptop is for.

Quoting slightly out of context here (so this isn't a direct comment), but it is all very well to say that many communities need water and similar infrastructure, food, medical aid etc. but this all too often totally ignores the need for communication. Without communication all these things are useless.

This is something that is evident in disasters around the world, including recent flooding in New Orleans*, showing that the problems is not just a lack of technology but knowledge about how to use it effectively. Often it is not the lack of availability of resources but knowing who needs them, where they are needed and where they can be best deployed for maximum effect. It takes days to deliver resources in inaccessible places, so it is very important that they are delivered to the right places. This is a two way issue : both the co-ordinators needs to know what is needed where help is most needed and people in the worst hit areas need to know how to effectively communicate. Picture yourself as a relief co-ordinator with 10K gallons of fresh water to deliver. Where do you drive it? By disasters, I should add, I also include on-going problems such as AIDS epidemic and annual famines, they are not exclusively one-time tragedies. Planning for prevention is a big issue, too.

In less immediate circumstances, it is an issue of planning for the future, knowing what investments offer the best return in giving the less well off a helping hand up the ladder. Education, communication and technology should not be underestimated.


* Also add, given the direction up thread, this isn't meant as a political snipe. It is just a recent example where co-ordination and communication broke down.

[zap2]

OSX also ger support from more 3rd party Apps i mean Linux does not even have iTunes!

[cloud 9]

I wish people would read the actual article before posting... they wouldn't come out with comments such as


- but they have no electricity
- they need feeding first
- it should run OSX ( when its obvious that the laptop is not powerful enough )
- $100 is too expensive for the starving in Africa
- the main organisation behind this is just out for profit

And so on...

RTFA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

hehe yes,
Or is everybody here so detached of the rest of the world, and only focused on their everyday lifes?

[Evangelion]

OSX also ger support from more 3rd party Apps i mean Linux does not even have iTunes!

It has something better (http://amarok.kde.org/)

[cloud 9]

OSX also ger support from more 3rd party Apps i mean Linux does not even have iTunes!

that's what the article says:
"Software will include a word processor, a Web browser, an email program and a programming system. "

do you see a Itunes somewhere in this line?

[mymemory]

That I live in Venezuela and I do not see any poor people paying attention to a laptop. That is the most unrealistic idea.

People from the gettos will get is and sell it and brake it in a matter of days, they just do not know what to do it. A homeless person in the US has more contact with technology than anybody here.

Wow, it reminds me the song "We are living in Amerika" by Ramnstein.

[lolex]

, but it is all very well to say that many communities need water and similar infrastructure, food, medical aid etc. but this all too often totally ignores the need for communication. Without communication all these things are useless.


I'm totally argreed with you communication is more important than anything,
Without reliable communication, nothing could be done effectively to the point.

However, do we believe a laptop is more reliable than a station ?
what I mean is when there is rarely finds a station to locate communication,
you rely on a laptop notebook?

How long is battery life you could rely on? who's going to give the hardware supports when needed ? Any figures of extreme weather which those laptop are targeted to locate with?

I think to build some stable fixtures to locate communication with reliable power supply among those unforgiving enviroments is a more proper approach. :)


The whole message about this campaign is vague, what I seen is " $100 a laptop to everychild of undevelope country ". what a lovely statement is that?

Who is the actual recipient of this program? undefinded.
Name those countries ? undefinded
How many childrens in nos. are qualified according to your quote? undefinded
Why to build something hazards to earth massive in scale rather than recycle existing resounces while you bear the "Help the World" quote ? undefinded.

Without any reliable figures, how did anyone claims could builds the proper machine ?

Through " try and error " ? In this scale ? How many improper craps are than need the earth to decompose ? :rolleyes:

P.s I 'm not trying to discourge those devoted efforts to help the 3rd world, I appreciate their works and just concerns those should be delegated properly to source.

[lolex]

For a $100 laptop, you have to buy your own:

1. RAM
2. Hard drive
3. Keyboard and mouse (no trackpad included)
4. External speaker (no built in)
5. Power cord

good quote :)

[ajbrehm]

2. Linux is a little over-the-head of the average user....do you think these kids will have any idea how to use it?

Yes. Linux is actually very easy to use if you are not used to the Windows or Mac way of life.

If a computer doesn't have many peripherals, who cares whether installing them is easy (Mac OS), doable (Windows), or difficult (Linux)?

But clicking on icons or typing commands is as easy in Linux as in Windows (typing commands is easier).

[fixyourthinking]

The problems with using Linux is that the software is going to be limited, the online support is going to be limited to get the most out of the software used or available, and the big one ... Linux is a mindset .... more than an operating system ... Even KDE desktop isn't easy to understand and intuitive like the Mac OS.

I guess this laptop will be able to have Mac On Linux though ... so anyone thinking the Mac OS is still out of the equation ... there is a possibility.

My real gripe falls in line with some other comments ...

1) Isn't food, shelter, water, clothing, and economic investment better to pursue? Only if factories for these laptops could be placed nearby that would be support hubs, jobs, and wealth creation would this be a true success

2) I have a problem with this program going forward without a true plan for the content for education that is placed on the laptop ... what are we going to give them on the hard drives?

3) What will stop someone from selling their laptop on eBay ... you can be assured this will happen or a black market will arise.

4) Will children who are JUST AS NEEDY of this technology receive them in the USA, Japan, and England?

5) Is there ulterior motive in using Linux that isn't being discussed here? Microsoft has shown interest, but won't fund a Linux project. Microsoft (and the Bill & Melinda Gates foundation) have deep pockets. This really wreaks of the communistic/socialist attitude that a lot of Linux types have ... you only need to visit Slashdot to see how apes the Linux community is over this news ... they think it will mainstream Linux and provide them a new avenue for revenue ... Linux isn't as free and open source as most "who use it" would have you believe.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[oober_freak]

It has something better (http://amarok.kde.org/)

I think xmms is better than either winamp/itunes.. good for people who just need to HEAR music :P

[fixyourthinking]

This only seems to have been touched, or I missed the posts, but I very much doubt that SJ or Apple are really offering OS X for free. The point about open source is that it comes with no restrictions on usage, no legally binding clauses and fixes, patches and improvements can be freely redistributed. The zero cost thing is always a bonus.

It is mythical that Linux is free ... it is only free to the complex mind ... for people that know how to assemble 100's of components from dozens of sources ... support isn't free ... hey ... Red Hat has to make SOME money or they wouldn't be in business.

The ONLY way there can be success in this if there was benefit to larger corporation that donate in lieu of research gained ... this is why I find the movie Contact so interesting ... about how the world gets together to to build the machine ... "that may change mankind" .... but when it comes done to paying ... countries and corporations have to be pawned politically to make it work. I find that insightful into this situation.

[fixyourthinking]

I think xmms is better than either winamp/itunes.. good for people who just need to HEAR music :P


I would agree .... and anyone saying iTunes is needed is just wasting breath because while it is "the reason the iPod is so successful" and is the easiest to use - it al;so connecvts to the iTunes Music store as a compelling part of its component ... can someone who qualifies for a $100 laptop afford a CD or an iTunes download?

That opens a whole new can of worms in my opinion ... if you think piracy is bad now, put the ability to download, listen to, and play music into the hands of 150 million children who will discover pop culture with these laptops!

[Evangelion]

The problems with going with Linux is that the software is going to be limited

There's VAST amount of software available for Linux. Yes there is. The selection is huge. And the best part of it is that it's free.

the online support is going to be limited to get the most out of the software used or available

As opposed to using a Mac? Or are you saying that Apple would fly some support-engineers to Namibia, to give hands-on training?

and the big one ... Linux is a mindset

As is Apple, Mac and OS X. I have often heard the jokes about "Cult of Mac". Apple and Macs are as much a way of life as they are computers.

Even KDE desktop isn't easy to understand and intuitive like the Mac OS.

Have you tried it? of course if you use Mac all your life and then try out KDE (for example), it's going to seem strange. Just like I had problems using OS X when I tried it out after using KDE for long period of time. And my wife STILL has problems using OS X.

1) Isn't food, shelter, water, clothing, and economic investment better to pursue?

The things you listed only help them survive for another day, while doing very little to help them in the long term. If we keep on pumping food there, we will be doing it untill the end of time. The goal of these laptops is to break the cycle of poverty.

No, we can't wait untill they are well fed and untull they live in proper houses. If we did that, we would be waiting for forever. Hopefully these laptops will enable them to help themselves. They can educate themselves, they can use the laptops to get information about new harvestsing-methods. They can get information about soil-treatment. They can learn new things.

Seriously: some of you guys are missing the point of this program by a mile! Those of you who say "shouldn't we just give them food instead?" are mind-bogglingly shortsighted! That food does nothing to solve their problems, it merely maintains the status quo.

3) What will stop someone from selling their laptop on eBay ... you can be assured this will happen or a black market will arise.

IIRC, the laptops are "tied" to specific user.

4) Will children who are JUST AS NEEDY of this technology receive them in the USA, Japan, and England?

No, because those countries are wealthy beyond belief already. Why should they receive charity that is much more needed elsewhere?

5) Is there ulterior motive in using Linux that isn't being discussed here?

Or, they are merely interested in offering an extremely flexible operating system that doesn't cost a thing and that can be modified easily?

This really wreaks of the communistic/socialist attitude that a lot of Linux types have

yeah, damn those Linux-commies! Linux is just a communistic ploy to destroy the good ol' bastions of capitalism: Apple and Microsoft!

you only need to visit Slashdot to see how apes the Linux community is over this news

And Mac-community is "apes" over the fact that it will not use OS X. So what's your point?

Linux isn't as free and open source as most "who use it" would have you believe.

Really? Please give some tangible examples. If you can't provide any examples, then I assume that you are talking about things you do not know about.

[Evangelion]

It is mythical that Linux is free

Linux IS free. The fact that you claim otherwise merely underlines your ignorance on this matter.

support isn't free ... hey ... Red Hat has to make SOME money or they wouldn't be in business.

You can freely download, use, modify and re-distribute Linux. If that doesn't qualify as "free", then what does? Do tell me what would you consider "free" in this world?

Of course you CAN pay for Linux. You can donate money for example. Or you can use a distro that costs money. That money gives you additional benefits like official support, printed manuals, for-profit software etc. etc. But you are in no way required to pay for Linux. it's all up to you.

Red Hat charges money for their support. How exactly does that mean that Linux is not free? There's more to Linux than Red Hat, in case you didn't know.

I have used Linux for several years, and during that time I have NEVER needed any "official" support.

The ONLY way there can be success in this if there was benefit to larger corporation that donate in lieu of research gained

So, only way anything can succeed is if some large corporation is interested in it? Uh-huh....

:rolleyes:

[billyboy]

I am reminded of a few things from my time working in so say Third World countries -TV was the great brainwasher in the third world, people glued to tvs pumping out materialistic dreams for parents with no land and hungry kids. Towns full of dead batteries, transistor radios and starving kids. And an aid programme where the local teachers asked for video players - despite the fact they had no tV AND NO ELECTRIC!!

It wasnt all doom and gloom, but the final solutions were so low tech. Worries about keeping software uptodate - please! And the laptops will be handed out, most will be misused, underused or sold for bits.

The advantage of handing out computers is that if it comes with access to the internet, that will single handedly accelerate an economic revolution and release millions of people from poverty. Great. It will also cause bloodshed as the few with their hands on the resources cling on for grim life to their fabulous wealth. Not so great.

Personally, I think this sort of global gesture is best forgotten because there are so many repercussions to dumping the 21st century into a pre 20th century environment. I have seen misplaced and inappropriate aid too many times, so unless somehow I totally misread the evidence, there is no great new dawn on the horizon thanks to 100 million $100 laptops. Apart from the fact that I dont believe that it will be allowed to happen! Too many corporations way bigger than tiddly computer and software giants dont want that sort of enlightenment thanks very much.

Just to get a feel for "aid", how wild and totally useful if Apple invested in Sudan and every other economically crippled countries and helped them produce and sell a $200 mac mini clone for the underprivileged kids in developed countries. They make $100 per laptop and reinvest that in farming projects to feed themselves. Reckon Steve Jobs would do that, install OSX for free? Reckon he would be allowed to even as the food lobbies got going as they saw their businesses going down the toilet.

[toxicfreak]

this laptop will be a TOOL not a toy no game no music no nothing
its gonna by all plastic/rubber seal wet enviorment

a tool to learn
chip 500mhz amd
flash memory 1 gig at the place a HD
wi-fi
4 usb port (on one what could install a nice ultra small low power 60gig ipod /zen HD )

power scource hand crank 1min crank/10min use or solar panel or wind turbine or the carrying strap become a powercord (brilliant)

get ride of redhat install Damn small linux 50MB (from it you can install all debian pkg)

and you wil have a monster for learning


as far as MAC osx it would never fit period but this is very nice of MR jobs too try ..

if mr job wanna hit the market hard simple make osx for x86 no support and make iwork for window that will hurt the market.

if apple still keep everything into his control his boom



ok in not full english speaking fine but i dont think that you would like it in french neither

[AlmostThere]

However, do we believe a laptop is more reliable than a station ?
what I mean is when there is rarely finds a station to locate communication,
you rely on a laptop notebook?

The communication issue was slightly separate from the laptop issue, although I think they converge when it comes to education. It was meant as a general response when people point out the need for basic supplies compared to modern technology.

How long is battery life you could rely on? who's going to give the hardware supports when needed ? Any figures of extreme weather which those laptop are targeted to locate with?
The laptop is not yet in production. Probably exactly some of the issues they are trying to deal with, apparently the laptop has a rubber casing and is inspired by a visit to Cambodia. The power issue is being addressed through the use of a wind-up generator.

I think to build some stable fixtures to locate communication with reliable power supply among those unforgiving enviroments is a more proper approach. :)
Yes, that is another approach. I think that it is important to remember that these laptop are going to be sold. While costs vary, a (very) approximate figure is that motorway / highway costs &#163;1 million per mile. What will make the biggest difference - a million children with laptops or 100 miles of modern highway? I am not proposing a clear answer, just issues that need to be addressed.


Who is the actual recipient of this program? undefinded.
Name those countries ? undefinded
How many childrens in nos. are qualified according to your quote? undefinded
Why to build something hazards to earth massive in scale rather than recycle existing resounces while you bear the "Help the World" quote ? undefinded.

From their FAQ, the target is education departments of governments that agree with their OLPC philosophy.

Some of the countries so far interested are China, Brazil, Thailand, and Egypt. I also saw South Africa mentioned. I don't think that there is a limit to developing nations, though, more to governments rather than individuals. The BBC report (below) mentions that Massachusetts will be purchasing them for their schools, too. I don't know if there is any special qualification beyond being a child in a nation or state that agrees with the project's philosophy.

They say that recycling is very labour intensive. Presumably too much to be viable (they also discuss laptop versus desktop and stress that portability is important). Recycled systems would presumably need to be have an assortment of Wind-up power converters fitted. I imagine that the two systems will complement each other, with recycled systems used as a central server, working with thin clients on the laptops.

BBC Report (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4292854.stm)

It is mythical that Linux is free ... it is only free to the complex mind ... for people that know how to assemble 100's of components from dozens of sources ... support isn't free ... hey ... Red Hat has to make SOME money or they wouldn't be in business.
Companies that are profitable can also be altruistic. How is a Red Hat donation different from an Apple one? They paid $2 million. I mentioned earlier differences between Linux and other operating systems. Linux has a well established community support system and importantly, one that, thanks to open sourcery, can answer all levels of technical questions.
1) Isn't food, shelter, water, clothing, and economic investment better to pursue? Only if factories for these laptops could be placed nearby that would be support hubs, jobs, and wealth creation would this be a true success
2) I have a problem with this program going forward without a true plan for the content for education that is placed on the laptop ... what are we going to give them on the hard drives?
3) What will stop someone from selling their laptop on eBay ... you can be assured this will happen or a black market will arise.
4) Will children who are JUST AS NEEDY of this technology receive them in the USA, Japan, and England?
5) Is there ulterior motive in using Linux that isn't being discussed here?
1. Yes all those are factors, some might not be manageable within the $100 target, but education is also important. Just because you are delivering food doesn't mean you have to stop work on the education program.
2. If you are paying for it, then ask the directors to be accountable! AFAIK, they don't use a hard drive. Storage is based on flash memory. I have every expectation that software will be tailored to the local markets and specifically decided on by the education boards of client governments. Seeing as clients aren't even fixed yet, isn't this a bit premature? I am not sure where the "give" bit comes from. I keep seeing $100 per unit. Suggests SELLING to me.
3. Local laws can prohibit some of this, seeing as locally the project will be government funded. Nothing is watertight but eBay pull items that do not meet local laws.
4. It doesn't seem quite clear but while the primary target and motivating force seems to be developing nations, I don't think there is anything to preclude selling to developed countries. But they are targeting governments rather than individuals.
5. Compared with selecting a proprietary system? Proprietary systems, while offered at low cost initially will come with unnecessary support and legal baggage, I posted earlier about this.

I have seen misplaced and inappropriate aid too many times, so unless somehow I totally misread the evidence, there is no great new dawn on the horizon thanks to 100 million $100 laptops.
The whole idea for project is based on educational theories developed at MIT. The $100 laptop is being developed by One Laptop per Child (OLPC), an independent, non-profit association based on the "constructionist" theories of learning pioneered by Seymour Papert and later Alan Kay. I don't think this is throwing money at a problem, it is trying to rationally look at computers, education and the limits of many governments and actually trying apply some of the theory.

[fixyourthinking]

Really? Please give some tangible examples. If you can't provide any examples, then I assume that you are talking about things you do not know about.

Are you expecting people to compile applications? I am a VERY technical person ... it took a few weeks for me to understand X11 and how to use GIMP (Photoshop for Linux)

Here's the crux to the issue ... most people do not know how to read or write in "these developing countries" - even if they go to school. Then there's the English barrier ... isn't the internet 75% English (yes I'm aware of babelfish) ... one of the reasons we learn easily in the US, England, and Japan is because (even if we can't read or write) we have people speaking intelligently and fluently around us. (I know you'll take that statement out of context) I equate Linux with high school and college level math ... whereas I equate the Mac with K-12 education ... where it has its strongest presence FOR A REASON!

Be honest, as Mac people, we know about limited software and support, can you honestly say that Linux has equal or greater support than the Mac Community?

The Mac has immense support on the internet (and yes Linux does too) but not enough as passionate and laymen as the Mac. That IS MY opinion.

The support for the Mac OS (and Windows) is EASY to understand and find ... you have to be in a sort of "know where, know when, know who" community with Linux.

You took way too much offense and personal attack with my arguments.

[fixyourthinking]

So, only way anything can succeed is if some large corporation is interested in it? Uh-huh....

:rolleyes:

Again, I think my example within the context of the movie Contact answers this question.

As fas as Linux vs Apple being a mindset ... I HEAR ALMOST EVERY DAY ... "The Mac OS just seems like the way you think; Windows isn't like that" I hear that from Windows users too. I never hear that about Linux people and I have yet to hear a Linux user say that, "Linux is the way I think" (I'm sure they exist though)

[Evangelion]

Are you expecting people to compile applications?

No. What makes you think that you are required to compile anything?

I am a VERY technical person ... it took a few weeks for me to understand X11 and how to use GIMP (Photoshop for Linux)

So, because you have to *shock and horror* actually learn to use the system, it means that it's "not free"? What do you expect? That someone drives up to your home, installs the OS to your computer, and somehow magically transplants the needed information to your brain so you can use it without having to learn anything? No, sorry. the OS would still consume hard-disk-space on your computer, so it's therefore not free! Damn those Linux-commies for lying to us! they have to actually GIVE you a free HD to house their "free" OS in, then it would be "free"! Um, no, that HD would still consume MY electricity, it's still not free!

`Here's the crux to the issue ... most people do not know how to read or write in "these developing countries" - even if they go to school. Then there's the English barrier ... isn't the internet 75% English

And what makes you think that they would be interested in those websites? The website of their government or school would be in their native language.

Be honest, as Mac people, we know about limited software and support, can you honestly say that Linux has equal or greater support than the Mac Community?

Yes. As far as software is concerned, the support is there, it's just different from Mac. As to techincal-support, I think that the Linux-community has lots more technical knowledge than the Mac-community does (I'm sorry but it's true. Many Linux-users are computer-experts by profession, whereas Mac-users are less often so. Mac-users are more in the creative space, and while they might know lots about design and media, that does not mean that they know anything about computers).

The support for the Mac OS (and Windows) is EASY to understand and find ... you have to be in a sort of "know where, know when, know who" community with Linux.

really? What makes you think that Mac-support is easy to find, whereas Linux-support is difficult to find? For example, I'm using Ubuntu. Suppose I'm a complete newbie and I want help. I type in "ubuntu support" in Google, what do I get? The first hit is to ubuntuforums.org, a place FULL of ubuntu-support.

Yes, I can see how difficult it is to find support. Using Google is just SO hard!

You took way too much offense and personal attack with my arguments.

my apologies, but ignorance agitates me. And you did try to claim that you have some sort of intimate knowledge of Linux, when you clearly have none. And your comments about "Linux is not free!" merely underlines that. Linux is as free as you can ever wish for piece of software to be.

[Evangelion]

Again, I think my example within the context of the movie Contact answers this question.

Sorry, you can't use a movie as a guide in life. there are lots of things that have flourished without having corporate backing behind them. I think it's pretty sad that you think that we need big corporations to achieve things.

As fas as Linux vs Apple being a mindset ... I HEAR ALMOST EVERY DAY ... "The Mac OS just seems like the way you think; Windows isn't like that" I hear that from Windows users too. I never hear that about Linux people and I have yet to hear a Linux user say that, "Linux is the way I think" (I'm sure they exist though)

Uh-huh. I'm sorry, but Mac OS is not an extension of your brain. you still have to learn to use it, and it contains things that you might want to change, but you can't. But considering how fanatical Mac-users are, I think it would be quite common to hear people say "Mac OS is just SO natural, that it's an extension of me!" (when in fact that claim might have no basis in reality and/or the user has merely changed his way of thinking to fit the Mac OS).

On Linux on the other hand, the system is so flexible that you do not have to change the way you think/work to fir the system, you can change the system to fit your way of thinking/working.

[fixyourthinking]

On Linux on the other hand, the system is so flexible that you do not have to change the way you think/work to fir the system, you can change the system to fit your way of thinking/working.

I strongly disagree that you can't do this on the mac and with more ease ...

I also disagree that what you propose (change to user desires) is AN EASY thing to do within Linux for the laymen.

Here's an excerpt from a story I just wrote on my website: A starving body and a starving mind are equal as born into this world.

[lolex]

The communication issue was slightly separate from the laptop issue,

I didn't agree the laptop issue can be separate from communication issue, the result would be disastrous if you leave this issue for laptop recipient to handle.

What will make the biggest difference - a million children with laptops or 100 miles of modern highway?

I think they need a fairly reliable motorway rathan than walking barefoot with a $100 laptop.

From their FAQ, the target is education departments of governments that agree with their OLPC philosophy.
Some of the countries so far interested are China, Brazil, Thailand, and Egypt. I also saw South Africa mentioned. I don't think that there is a limit to developing nations, though, more to governments rather than individuals.

This is a really vague statement , who will not agrees with this philosophy?
I only have the problem with - how would these buyers handle the laptops and deploy those properly to the clients ?

Who will not agrees that education and technology are also important ?
Who will not agrees we need to help fighting proverty ?
Who will not agrees that a "$100 laptop for every children" is a great campaign?

But you need not to bring these things together . You build a $100 laptop for whoever highschool student in US will be great, since the infrastructures and the background of the kids allow you to do so, and will be helpful ,it's will be another breakthrough in technology since personally computer announced in 1984.

I rather appreciate the team to put efforts into setup a website and deploy
volunteers to visit those targeted country, updates their evaluations onto the site , then estimates some figures:

What they need ?
They need how many ?
How urgent their needs are?
How to deploy donations ?

Don't let things plagues up by execute actions too hurry before accomplished adequate plannings.

Sorry for going too far off topic, :)

[ksz]

I should know better than to jump into this melee, but I'll offer some of my opinions on Linux while being honest and as objective as possible. These are my personal opinions after using various flavors of Linux over the past 10 years.

1. It is simply not as polished as Windows or Mac OS. As much as I think Windows should come with a Surgeon General's health warning, it is well organized and has a nicely refined look and feel. KDE and Gnome are still not as well polished. A KDE/Gnome environment is cluttered (bring up the various menus from the dock and you'll find a confusing mix of choices), the file browser/web browser seems to suffer from an aspect ratio font problem, and installing/removing/maintaining packages is still too Unix-esqe. Compare this with Apple's approach to package installation and removal.

2. I have tried to upgrade KDE 2.x to 3.x and found it to be an arcane process. Different Linux distributions have their own particular installation and package management UIs. The experience varies. There is no single standard.

3. I have Mandrake Linux running under Virtual PC on my Dell Inspiron laptop. I was unable to install Red Hat and SuSE under Virtual PC. Further, it was very difficult to find the freeware version of Mandrake. They really want you to pay, and they've buried the freeware version somewhere...

4. The quality of applications under Linux is also not equal to the quality of apps under Mac OS or Windows. Linux apps may be powerful, but they're not generally pretty or professionally presented. GIMP, for example, may be a competent alternative to Photoshop, but someone decided to repackage it into GimpShop...and for a good reason!

5. The quality of the developer IDE under KDE (KDevelop) is not equal to Microsoft's Visual Studio nor, I think, to Xcode.

6. OpenOffice 2.0 is nice. It's quite nice actually. But it does not contain an Email client and its database is nowhere as capable as Access. The forthcoming Office 12 will sport a dramatic new look that makes extensive use of ribbon bars. While the jury is still out on the effectiveness of this new UI paradigm shift, it does widen the gap.

To be fair, Linux is still growing and still improving. But that all-important user experience that we cherish is still lacking. For power users and those familiar with Unix and/or willing to delve into scripting languages and command-line prompts, Linux is a wonderful playground. But for the consumer I think it still has a long way to go.

Lindows (er, Linspire), for example, has done a good job simplifying Linux. They've added a "Launch" button on the left side of the dock that serves the same function as Windows' Start button and better organizes the apps and documents. But Linspire isn't free and it too uses some awkward screen graphics (bloated icons in toolbars, for example).

Ok, enuf.

[AlmostThere]

Then there's the English barrier ... isn't the internet 75% English (yes I'm aware of babelfish) ... one of the reasons we learn easily in the US, England, and Japan is because (even if we can't read or write) we have people speaking intelligently and fluently around us.

This is one of the core reasons that people choose open source software in preference to proprietary. It is just not worth the investment for a major company to translate software but it is worth local communities putting the effort in and furthermore, they are free to do so.

Compare Tiger, which is translated into 14 languages and supports another 10 character sets, with OpenOffice, which has been translated into around 85 languages. KDE is working on the same set of languages, as is GNOME.

If South Africa is interested, perhaps Apple better get cracking with that Afrikaans release.

[Object-X]

It is nothing to do with open source idealism..

So, 10 years down the road when Steve decides to change his mind and charge a royalty for his "Idiotic Property", what then? All their children and now workers are trained to use that platform, which all of a sudden is creating a huge cost to doing business there.

And please don't tell me about how for a typical business wages are the largest component of cost. For those third world countries the price of a USD$2000 PM will probably buy a HOUSE there and feed a family for decades. It just doesn't equate.

And hence it is understandable why they want to stay open, there is no telling that Steve won't be like Bill.

I can accept that argument, but that isn't the argument they made. If they wanted to say we can't accept "terms or conditions" Apple offered us I would shut up, but that isn't the argument, at least not the way it was reported. I took from their comments they want to "play" with the OS. Fine, but what about the people this is for? Why not do what's in their best interest. The whole reason for open source is because corporate America is by and large greedy and only concerned about stock price. If a large company wants to give away thier property to help those in need why would you prevent them? Because you want to "tinker"?!? I don't know, it's a lame excuse, if that's even what it is. I think it has more to do with open source idealism and anti-commercialism attitudes.

[Object-X]

This Thread is showing what I been pointing out time and time again: it is very unfortunate to have such blind fan boys-os x is superior dude, that don't let their brains kick in before they start typing.

The bottom line is, this is a very noble initiative no matter the OS, technology or whatnot... this will help and hopefully make a change! Period!

If they declined to have OS X is probably because they could not have reached the $100 mark with it to begin with.
Then, the open source community have a tendency to create more in Windows and Linux than anything else... so what makes sense? To go Linux since it is free... then you have thousand of applications to go with it that are ready...

It's not blind fan boy mentality at all, actually, it's the opposite. Open source has it's place and I use it for such. Linux shines in a server room OS X shines in a classroom. Why can't they see that for this purpose OS X is superior? Why can't you? Are you seriously saying that if you had your choice of Linux or OS X to expose your child too for a first computer you would go Linux? Only Linux "fanboys" would do that. OS X is a no brainer when it comes to a class room in my opinion. Don't take my comments out of context. I did not say that OS X is superior in every way, but for this purpose it would be ideal, and to take Linux over OS X, suggests the folks at MIT have an another agenda other than helping people.

[Stella]

I love the way people are bashing open source.

If it wasn't for open source we wouldn't be using the OS we are today on the Mac. But of course, people are blinded, because its Mac, its OK, but outside of the Mac utilitisation of opensource, it becomes 2nd rate.

There is lots of support for open source software - some better than others, just like commercial software.

[pizzach]

I'm still cringing on seeing the work Redhat. They could have gone for a slightly less commercialized discribution...like Debian or Ubuntu...

[fixyourthinking]

I'm still cringing on seeing the work Redhat. They could have gone for a slightly less commercialized discribution...like Debian or Ubuntu...


Redhat, AMD, and MIT Professors realize there is money to be made ... when there are discussions about Linux; Red Hat gets 1st dibs ...

Let me say this: Even if red hat were to charge 50 cents per laptop for the customization of the OS (which MUST be done) that's 50 to 75 MILLION! A huge bottom line producer to Red Hat...

And of course you could extrapolate that to 25 cents and 10 cents.

The turning down of big money and shunning of deep pockets to go with Linux just smells funny to me ... it's not the open source part ... because I kind of agree with that ... but this just seems like more of a move to make Linux viable than to help those in need.

[john123]

I can't believe they declined it! So, you are going to force the less fortunate of the world to suffer with an overly complex and inferior OS? I thought the whole idea was to help people not push your stupid open source idealism. :mad:

Are you kidding me? Linux is not without its faults, but it is a fantastic OS -- and it's FREE. Something tells me that you haven't really used Linux much. If you had, you'd know that it doesn't have to be "complex" and it is very powerful.

[mdavey]

I took from their comments they want to "play" with the OS. Fine, but what about the people this is for? ... Because you want to "tinker"?!?... I think it has more to do with open source idealism and anti-commercialism attitudes.

I'm not sure about idealism, but you can guarantee it is definately about anti-commercialism. And it isn't that they want to 'tinker' with it either. Open Source isn't about just about access to the source, it is about the freedom to redistribute the software, create derived works, use the software with any technology and without discrimination against fields of endeavour or persons or groups. A side-effect of having the source is that you can then contract anyone to modify it - you don't have to go back to RedHat or Apple - heck, you could even contract it to a software house in India or in one of the developing countries you are helping.

You are right, OS X does make for a far better desktop than Linux, but that isn't the only consideration. A project such as this absolutely must guarantee that it will be free from vendor lock-in. Unless Jobs was willing to provide a version of OS X under a true Open Source license, there is no way that the project managers could accept his offer. Simple as that.

[Evangelion]

I strongly disagree that you can't do this on the mac and with more ease ...

Can I get rid of the menubar on top? Can I move the dock to the top of the screen? Can I replace the windowmanager with something else (I don't like those red/yellow/gree dots) etc. etc.

To be honest, I don't see any of that happening.

I also disagree that what you propose (change to user desires) is AN EASY thing to do within Linux for the laymen.

Well, you configure KDE graphically, there's no real need to edit text-files or anything. So I fail to see how hard it could be.

[Evangelion]

Redhat, AMD, and MIT Professors realize there is money to be made ... when there are discussions about Linux; Red Hat gets 1st dibs ...

Again: there's lots more to Linux that just Red Hat. Red Hat Linux is meant for servers and the like. The product Red Hat offers to Joe Sixpack is called Fedora and it's 100% free.

Let me say this: Even if red hat were to charge 50 cents per laptop for the customization of the OS (which MUST be done) that's 50 to 75 MILLION! A huge bottom line producer to Red Hat...

Only way Red Hat could charge for the software was if they offered support or something like that. And I honestly don't see them supporting systems that are in the middle of nowhere in Africa. Red Hat might be involved, but they might not be in in to directly earn any money. Besides helping others, they might be interested in seeing more people use Linux.

The turning down of big money and shunning of deep pockets to go with Linux just smells funny to me ... it's not the open source part ... because I kind of agree with that ... but this just seems like more of a move to make Linux viable than to help those in need.

So they tiurned down Apple, and you immediately assume that it's because they want to earn money and not help the people in question? Why do you hate Linux? Seriously? And fact is that OS X would NOT be suitable for project like this! It really would not

[Evangelion]

1. It is simply not as polished as Windows or Mac OS. As much as I think Windows should come with a Surgeon General's health warning, it is well organized and has a nicely refined look and feel. KDE and Gnome are still not as well polished. A KDE/Gnome environment is cluttered (bring up the various menus from the dock and you'll find a confusing mix of choices)

KDE might be cluttered, but what makes you think GNOME is?

and installing/removing/maintaining packages is still too Unix-esqe. Compare this with Apple's approach to package installation and removal.

I'm sorry, but that argument is getting old. It really is. How does one install app in OS X?

1. You locate the app from the web and download it
2. You mount the disk image and install the app

How do you install apps in Linux?

1. You open up your package manager and find the app you want to install
2. You choose the app in question, and click install

Seriously: how is the Linux-way of doing that more difficult?

As it happens, there's a new way of installing apps on Linux:

1. You find the app on the web, and click on it
2. The app is installed

How exactly is that "difficult"?

2. I have tried to upgrade KDE 2.x to 3.x and found it to be an arcane process. Different Linux distributions have their own particular installation and package management UIs. The experience varies. There is no single standard.

Why should there be a "standard"? Different people want to do things in different way, you can't dictate to them how they should do things. And that is the exact reason why there are so many Linux-distros (and GUI's). They do things differently, because people want to do things differently

3. I have Mandrake Linux running under Virtual PC on my Dell Inspiron laptop. I was unable to install Red Hat and SuSE under Virtual PC. Further, it was very difficult to find the freeware version of Mandrake. They really want you to pay, and they've buried the freeware version somewhere...

So you had a problem with Mandrake. And that proves that Linux sucks.... how, exactly?

4. The quality of applications under Linux is also not equal to the quality of apps under Mac OS or Windows. Linux apps may be powerful, but they're not generally pretty or professionally presented. GIMP, for example, may be a competent alternative to Photoshop, but someone decided to repackage it into GimpShop...and for a good reason!

GIMP propably has the worst UI out there. But there are other very nice apps out there as well.

5. The quality of the developer IDE under KDE (KDevelop) is not equal to Microsoft's Visual Studio nor, I think, to Xcode.

Visual Studio costs money, and Xcode runs only on OS X. Don't like Kdevelop? use something else. Ttraditionally developement on Linux has not been done with IDE's but with editors.

6. OpenOffice 2.0 is nice. It's quite nice actually. But it does not contain an Email client

Why should it contain a email-client?

and its database is nowhere as capable as Access.

Use a proper database instead of Access. How about PostgreSQL? KDE has some Access-equivalents, but their names escape me at the moment.

To be fair, Linux is still growing and still improving. But that all-important user experience that we cherish is still lacking. For power users and those familiar with Unix and/or willing to delve into scripting languages and command-line prompts, Linux is a wonderful playground. But for the consumer I think it still has a long way to go.

I have never needed scripting in all my ears of using Linux. I have used the CLI, but that has been by choice, not because it was forced upon me.

That said, I find that people are rapidly running out of things to complain when talking about Linux. About 5 years ago people complained that it's too difficult to install. Today it's VERY easy to install. Then they started to complain that things should "just work". And in recent distros I have tried, things do "just work". Now they are complaining that the UI is not "refined" (well it is). And that area is about to get a huge facelift when we get stuff like KDE4 and kick-ass X.

[fixyourthinking]

[QUOTE=Evangelion]Can I get rid of the menubar on top? Can I move the dock to the top of the screen? Can I replace the windowmanager with something else (I don't like those red/yellow/green dots) etc. etc.

Yep ... all of that can be done in one way or another ... although some would be unneccesary or stupid. Why does ANY of that matter in ANY way to the cause ... moving the menubar isn't going to make the laptops cost less ...

There are literally 100's if not 1000's of themes for the Mac OS.

[john123]

Use a proper database instead of Access. How about PostgreSQL? KDE has some Access-equivalents, but their names escape me at the moment.


Ditto on this (as well as your other arguments for that matter). Access is a joke -- it hardly qualifies as a real database platform. Postgres is much better. It still needs a lot of work (SQL Server 2000 has a lot of nice features that Postgres doesn't, let alone SQL 2005), but at least it will scale. Access won't.

[Xacent]

Kudos to the folks at the OLPC and MIT for putting forth effort towards a project like this.

Helping developing countries improve their methods of delivering education is a very positive initiative. However I think that basic teaching supplies like chalk boards, paper, pencils, desks and a building to learn in are far more important and fundamental than providing a dubiously possible 100$ laptop. The gap this idea is seeking to bridge is simply too large to be accomplished by handing out some technology.

People in developing nations need to learn basic skills like reading, writing and develop trades that are applicable to them in their own communities. Trades like carpentry, plumbing, electrical and city planing are much more relevant for a developing area seeking to create an infrastructure with any hope of supporting a technological future.

From MIT's website they comment on why donated desktops are not a feasible solution:

'. . . if we estimate 100 million available used desktops, and each one requires only one hour of human attention to refurbish, reload, and handle, that is forty-five thousand work years.'

By using the same comparison if whatever factory producing these 100$ laptops were able to make one from start to finish in 60 seconds it would take 190 *years* to make 100 million of them. I don't know much about computer manufacture or industry but I can't imagine that the parts for an entire laptop could be manufactured and assembled in less than 60 seconds.

The scale that they are suggesting this would be implemented is just unrealistic and the 100$ could go very far towards more traditional educational tools that could benefit children now instead of decades to centuries from now.

[ksz]

Now they are complaining that the UI is not "refined" (well it is). And that area is about to get a huge facelift when we get stuff like KDE4 and kick-ass X.
If the UI is already so refined, why should it need a "huge facelift" in KDE4? A huge facelift or extreme makeover is only needed when the existing version has "issues" (to say it politely).

Anyway, I am done with this Linux vs the World debate. ;)

[SPUY767]

Depends on what you do with it. Everyday usage is just as easy (no, you don't have to edit text-files if you don't want to), if not easier.



I'm sorry, but you have zero clue what you are talking about. No, really. I have personally had situations where I have been in direct contact with the developers of an app when I have had problems. I have had situations where I have provided feedback on an app, and it was fixed about 2 hours later!

I have also experience with Apple's tech-support (when my iPod b0rked itself). They just gave me the generic reply: "restore the iPod to factory-settings". Um gee, thanks guys for kick-ass support!

You are saying that you wont get any support with open source. That is pure, 100% BS.



Same logic: what kind of real-world computing-skills is someone gonna learn running OS X? Photoshopping?

Seriously, Linux simply enables the user to do more. The source is all there. You might not find it interesting and worthwhile, but CS-students and other interested people will. And they can dive deep in to the code, modify it and learn from it.



Which is why Apple DIDN'T build their OS, developer-tools, browser, server-tools etc. etc. on open source? Oh, they did? That's what I thought....

Seriously: why do you people hate Linux and open source? Are you afraid it's going to steal OS X's thunder or something? Linux and OS X can co-exists beautifully. Linux and Mac-communities could co-exist beautifully. Same could not be said about Linux and MS/Windows or OS X/Apple and MS/Windows. Yet you people are constantly attacking the thing that could be one of your biggest friends and allies! It just boggles the mind!

You're just proving my point. The fact is, Open source makes no difference. Robustness makes a difference. And what is that crap about being CS majors. They're talking about distributing laptops to people with no electricitry. I don't think that CS majors are in high demand. If it can't teach them how to milk a yak, it probably isn't going to help them survive.

People will dpiss and moan about what I say, but the root of the problem is use elitist americans who think that we know what's best for everyone. the simple fact is, that the world can only supoport so many developed people. While it's sad that folks are in crappy shape, it's a fact of life.

[SPUY767]

Kudos to the folks at the OLPC and MIT for putting forth effort towards a project like this.

Helping developing countries improve their methods of delivering education is a very positive initiative. However I think that basic teaching supplies like chalk boards, paper, pencils, desks and a building to learn in are far more important and fundamental than providing a dubiously possible 100$ laptop. The gap this idea is seeking to bridge is simply too large to be accomplished by handing out some technology.

People in developing nations need to learn basic skills like reading, writing and develop trades that are applicable to them in their own communities. Trades like carpentry, plumbing, electrical and city planing are much more relevant for a developing area seeking to create an infrastructure with any hope of supporting a technological future.

From MIT's website they comment on why donated desktops are not a feasible solution:

'. . . if we estimate 100 million available used desktops, and each one requires only one hour of human attention to refurbish, reload, and handle, that is forty-five thousand work years.'

By using the same comparison if whatever factory producing these 100$ laptops were able to make one from start to finish in 60 seconds it would take 190 *years* to make 100 million of them. I don't know much about computer manufacture or industry but I can't imagine that the parts for an entire laptop could be manufactured and assembled in less than 60 seconds.

The scale that they are suggesting this would be implemented is just unrealistic and the 100$ could go very far towards more traditional educational tools that could benefit children now instead of decades to centuries from now.

That argument is foolish as it assumes that there is only one in production at any given time. henrey ford invented this awesome thing called the assemble line a bunch fo years ago. Last I checked, apple had sold 39 million ipods, and by your logic, that would take a little less than 75 years.

[zap2]

People were saying 100 is to muc for the poor it is, the person working on this plan even said so!


We are not sure how OSX runs on AMD and what it really needs


On the web site the are outline for the laptop and it show it will be a hybrid tablet/Laptop!!!


They should sell these at 300 to "rich" people(use the term little) and if the really only cost 100 then that 200 they make and can put to buy laptops for people who cant buy 100$ laptops!!!!


Or all the companies involded in making the COmputer should donate all the parts so it would all be free!

[dmarkman]

How do you install apps in Linux?

1. You open up your package manager and find the app you want to install
2. You choose the app in question, and click install

Seriously: how is the Linux-way of doing that more difficult?




well, I have 3 computers in my office with the following OSs:
Mac OS X (Mac), SuSe 9.3 and Windows XP
I never had any problem with installation on Mac OS X and Windows
and I had rare success with Linux:
it always complains you don't have that library or that library e.t.c.
it's good entertainment for developers but not for regular users

[Xacent]

That argument is foolish as it assumes that there is only one in production at any given time. henrey ford invented this awesome thing called the assemble line a bunch fo years ago. Last I checked, apple had sold 39 million ipods, and by your logic, that would take a little less than 75 years.



Not everything has to be taken so litteraly and since you've not heard of hyperbole I'll spell it out for you. It's highly unlikely that it would take 60s per unit to manufacture and assemble. If you look at something more realistic like 1 hour per unit on an assembly line that has 60 steps then you're pumping out 60 an hour. Which yields the same time result. And I still think that manufacturing all the parts and assembling a unit on an assembly line an hour per unit is optimistic.

Apple has sold 39 million ipods over 6 years at an average selling cost of well over 100$ per unit. Based on what MIT is claiming this laptop will contain you can't possibly make the arguement that it is as simple or less technologically advanced than an iPod. So why would you assume that a completely different and more advanced product could be produced in the same time scale? Even if it could its still going to take 20-25 years at that rate to produce the 100-150 million they are stating they want to make. Its not 190 years as I stated earlier with my tongue in my check but 20 years is a long time. Last I checked a non-profit organization isn't the same as a multinational company with the technical and production resources that Apple has.

[kalisphoenix]

Gee. Wish I'd known that GNU/Linux was so difficult to use when I switched to using it as my primary OS back in '99 ;-)

10 SCREEN 12
20 CLS

is about the extent of my programming knowledge, but it only took me a couple hours to get a Linux system up and running on a UMAX 333MHz PC that I didn't screw up for months :P

Seriously -- Linux can be as simple as the Palm OS. Making KDE that simple would take approximately five minutes -- just a matter of placing icons on the desktop and disabling the kicker. Compiling a version of Fluxbox that would display an iconbar of the ten applications (at most) that these kids will use? Probably about an hour, maybe three, but it'd be lightning fast.

Google would probably compensate (in their Summer of Code) someone tackling the version of fluxbox that I mentioned. A system based on Linux, running the applications that these students need, would occupy at most 100MB.

OS X? Are you @#$%ing kidding me? Do Mbutu and Nguyen really need to export to PDF from Print Preview? Spotlight? Expose? Nobody gives a **** about Darwin but Apple. Not even .001% of Apple users are even remotely interested in using anything but Aqua. And if you strip away Aqua, what do you have? Open ****ing source.

The most intuitive GUI you can have is an array of icons that you click to run an application. That's all these kids need, and that's easily and quickly accomplished with open source.

Seriously -- pull your heads out of your asses. I'm sick of defending Mac zealots to, you know, people capable of thought.

[Evangelion]

If the UI is already so refined, why should it need a "huge facelift" in KDE4?

If OS X is such a kick-ass OS, why does it need "kick-ass" new releases like Tiger and Leopard? Such releases are only needed if the OS has "issues" (to say it politely)

A huge facelift or extreme makeover is only needed when the existing version has "issues" (to say it politely).

KDE is somewhat cluttered, that's the primary issue it has. KDE4 will fix that issue, and bring on lots of kick-ass features and improvements.

[Evangelion]

well, I have 3 computers in my office with the following OSs:
Mac OS X (Mac), SuSe 9.3 and Windows XP
I never had any problem with installation on Mac OS X and Windows
and I had rare success with Linux:
it always complains you don't have that library or that library e.t.c.
it's good entertainment for developers but not for regular users

Well, my three previous distros have been Debian, Gentoo and Ubuntu. And I have no problems installing apps in any of them. Choose the app you want to install, and install it (granted, Gentoo-installs take some time because it compiles the apps. But if you don't want to compile, don't use Gentoo).

[Evangelion]

Yep ... all of that can be done in one way or another ... although some would be unneccesary or stupid. Why does ANY of that matter in ANY way to the cause ... moving the menubar isn't going to make the laptops cost less ...

The point was that Linux is configurable, OS X is less so. And please: show me the configuration-option in OS X which says "remove the menubar". Please show me the configuration-option that says "replace the windowmanager".

There are literally 100's if not 1000's of themes for the Mac OS.

Uh, themes are not the same thing as changing the system. Themse change some things in the UI, but deep down the UI is still the same. Fact is that OS X is nowhere near as configurable as Linux or it's GUI's are.

[Evangelion]

Seriously, this thread has been a huge let-down for me. Here we have a noble effort to help the poor of this world. And you people whine and complain because they didn't choose OS X (regardless of the fact that OS X would be a very poor candidate for this project). And because they decided to use Linux and embrace open-source, you start to flame Linux and open source.

Linux and Mac could co-exists beautifully. It really could. Linux and Mac-users have more in common than there are things that set them apart. SAme could not be said about Linux and Windows-users or Mac and Windows users. But you people seem to be determined to make sure that Linux and Mac will not co-exist. It seems to me that you think that anything that is not Apple or Mac-related is automatically crap and should be destroyed. Steve Ballmer would be proud of you guys! You seem to share his mindset, only difference is that whereas he pushes Microsoft-crap, you push Apple-crap. Behavior is exactly the same, spread FUD, bitch and moan. If it's something else than your personal favourite, it must be destroyed. Well done guys. No, really! That is a really mature way of looking at things! And here I thought that Microsoft was bad, it seems that Mac-heads are even worse! At least Windows-users don't have some kind of religious connection to their OS. When Windows-people push Windows, they do so because of stupidity and greed. When Mac-people push Macs and OS X, they do so because of fundamentalism. And I honestly don't know which is worse.

I'm expecting to see wome of you guys start throwing chairs and shout "I'm going to ******** destroy Linux! I'm going to bury those guys!". You are almost there already.

Let me remind you guys of few things: Open source is not crap. And it's not communism. What did STEVE JOBS say about open source software? I believe it went something like "Open source software. We think it's great!" Are you disagreeing with his Steveness over this matter? And how can open source be communistic, when it's earning Apple (a capitalistic company) millions of dollars in profits all the time?

No, open source is not communistic because you can share it for free. For starters, teh decision to open source some software is up to the developer of the software. And second: There are very few companies earning money from selling software. But there are untold numbers of companies that USE software. And while open source MIGHT harm companies that sell software, it will benefit those untold thousands of companies that use software,because they are not dependant on single vendor and because they don't have to pay humungous licensing-fees. Some companies might be harmed (if their for-profit products are not good enough), while humungous number of companies will benefit. How is that "communistic"? Companies will benefit, and you think it's communism?

Are cars "communistic" because it harmed the makers of horse-carriages?

Here's some more facts: Foundation of OS X is built on Open Source. You develop your software with open source. You browse the web with open source. You communicate with Windows-machines with open source. You print with open source. The very heart of OS X is open source. And yet you claim that open source is crap? I guess that means that OS X is crap as well?

If open source is so bad, why did Apple decide to built their entire software-stack on open source? Did someone at Apple decide that "ooh ooh, I know! Instead of building our OS on solid and excellent foundation, why don't we build it on crap instead, and see what happens?"? Yeah, I can see THAT happening!

I'm a Linux-users. And I'm a OS X-user. And this thread has made me feel ashamed to be the latter. You people act like you oppose Microsoft, yet you are 1:1 identical to them. In fighting the monster, you have become the monster.