TiVo to Support Video Transfer to iPod [Archive]

MacRumors

Nov 21, 2005, 07:13 AM

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

The New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/21/business/media/21download.html?ex=1290229200&en=828b15793b7d17e4&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss) reports that TiVo is announcing both iPod and Sony PSP support for its Digital Video Recorder (TiVo).

The newest version of its TiVoToGo software will allow users to transfer recorded television programming to either an Apple iPod (5G) (http://guides.macrumors.com/IPod_%285G%29) or Sony PSP.

According to a press release (http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=businessNews&storyID=2005-11-21T113258Z_01_RID141437_RTRUKOC_0_US-TIVO.xml&archived=False) the feature will begin testing in the coming weeks, with full availability to TiVo Series2 subscribers as early as the 1st quarter of next year.

According to the New York Times, there will be a one-time fee to users to enable this feature which will cover the licensing fee for MPEG-4. Another article (http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D8E0LA38G.htm?campaign_id=apn_tech_up&chan=tc) notes that the encoded video will contain digital watermarks to discourage internet sharing of the resultant video files.

thrillz3

Nov 21, 2005, 07:20 AM

This is great, but will we be able to do it with OSX?

Dagless

Nov 21, 2005, 07:23 AM

ooh thats good. now to get TiVo!

webman2k

Nov 21, 2005, 07:43 AM

This is great, but will we be able to do it with OSX?

I would hope so, but my gut says no. They've shown no interest in even fixing the broken mac client. It's too bad. All I'd like to do is burn some of my tivo recordings to dvd for personal use. I can download the files easily, but I have nothing that will decode the .tivo format on OS X. I'd gladly pay $30 or so for a program that would let me do that. If they would just release the codec for a small fee, we could do what we wanted - burn to disc, compress to iPod format. I don't care how much DRM they put in it, just get it to us - please!

bigandy

Nov 21, 2005, 08:05 AM

ooooooh nice.

MattG

Nov 21, 2005, 08:08 AM

Great, now if they'd only port the TiVo2Go software to the Mac, the software that they've been saying for the past year "we're working on it."

Plus the TiVo Desktop software still doesn't work with Tiger, 10.3 only.

:rolleyes:

snkTab

Nov 21, 2005, 08:10 AM

Like people are not going to share videos because it has a watermark.

BornAgainMac

Nov 21, 2005, 08:18 AM

I dumped Tivo because they don't support Macs. Also made sure they knew that on the feedback form.

pubwvj

Nov 21, 2005, 08:20 AM

Hmm... Right now people spend an average of 9 hours a day in front of the boob-tube. So with this connection they can increase that to 16? 24? Wow, I don't know how they do it!!!

Will Cheyney

Nov 21, 2005, 08:25 AM

Awesome idea for people who otherwise wouldn't know how to do such things.
Myself? As I have the know-how, I'd rather edit the footage myself, but still, a good link-feature.

Gump

Nov 21, 2005, 08:26 AM

TiVo is in an encrypted MPEG format.
A 60 minute show recorded in 2nd best quality on TiVo is about 5GB.

Good move, whoever chose to do this.
Would be good to see some sort of direct and wireless transfer between the next 6G iPod and the next gen TiVo, no PC or MAC inbetween.

j_maddison

Nov 21, 2005, 08:29 AM

Hmm... Right now people spend an average of 9 hours a day in front of the boob-tube. So with this connection they can increase that to 16? 24? Wow, I don't know how they do it!!!

Nine hours?? Who are these average people? They obviously don't work for a lving! :p Or perhaps they don't sleep. If I could only get away with 2-3 hours sleep a night, I could just about squeeze that 9 hours of viewing in :D

Porchland

Nov 21, 2005, 08:41 AM

MhzDoesMatter

Nov 21, 2005, 08:44 AM

Does anyone else think think TivoToGo done right will be pretty capable competitor to iTunes for TV shows?

If you've already bought and iPod and have tivo, you can basically have the napster/yahoo subscription plan by paying the service fee and downloading all you want...but unlike music, I don't really care if I own the shows or not. Odds are I'm not going to keep them indefinitely, and may only watch them two or three times total. And would rather buy the boxed set of a season for archiving. Even the resolution should be better.

NYT does have the service as still Window's only. But maybe Apple is the one dragging its feet. Not Tivo. How hard would it be for the two of them to enable TV show sharing between iTunes and a tivo on the local subnet like other media devices and allow you to stream the shows from within iTunes itself, also allowing iTunes to manage syncing to the iPod, possibly automatically. Not to mention this could work on both platforms, and if people own quicktime, don't they already have a MPEG4 license? So it might also be cheaper.

But would the iTVS really have a market then?

AidenShaw

Nov 21, 2005, 08:46 AM

Like people are not going to share videos because it has a watermark.
The watermark could contain your TiVo subscriber ID, which would make large scale file sharing a risky proposition.

AidenShaw

Nov 21, 2005, 09:01 AM

Does anyone else think think TivoToGo done right will be pretty capable competitor to iTunes for TV shows?
I can already watch TiVoToGo (and any other movies, music or pictures, and even live TV) on my telephone, laptop, or any PC anywhere in the world....

Go to Verizon or Sprint and get a Windows, Nokia or other 3GP phone with an internet data connection. EVDO networking is perfect - this is DSL-speed internet access from the phone itself - also available as a PC-card for a laptop. Check out "Broadband Access" from Verizon for details.

Go to http://www.orb.com and get the free Orb software. It turns your home PC into a private internet media server. There's an "add-on" for TiVoToGo, so that shows on the TiVo can be served to the internet.

Then, start your browser on the phone, and select the show, video, TiVo recording or whatever you want to watch. The Orb software will stream the video from your PC to your phone (shrinking the image to fit your phone screen, and compressing it as necessary to fit the bandwidth to your device).

Of course, Orb also works fine with laptops or PCs with internet connections - and it will automatically produce a larger, higher-quality image according to the network speeds and display size.

"Downloading through iTunes to an iPod" is pretty lame compared to real-time streaming....

Aeolius

Nov 21, 2005, 09:18 AM

... It turns your home PC into a private internet media server...

There are those of us who do not have Windows boxes in our homes, you know. ;)

Chupa Chupa

Nov 21, 2005, 09:19 AM

Does anyone else think think TivoToGo done right will be pretty capable competitor to iTunes for TV shows?

No, because it's WAY WAY WAY too complicated for the average techno-phobe user. Too many steps, too many things that can go wrong that the user doesn't understand. The reason video content on iTunes has been such a success it because it only takes an IQ of 100 to click "Buy Video." After that iTunes does all the work for the user. People will pay for the convenience.

WeBleed4Real

Nov 21, 2005, 09:29 AM

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

According to the New York Times, there will be a one-time fee to users to enable this feature which will cover the licensing fee for MPEG-4.

Blah...no one wants to pay a fee. Wait for someone to create a free hack around that.

AidenShaw

Nov 21, 2005, 09:31 AM

There are those of us who do not have Windows boxes in our homes, you know. ;)
You could buy a PC Mini for about $500 - this would be a good way to see if you want to switch without risking a big investment ! :D :D

http://sys.us.shuttle.com/Images/Buy/Full/g5.jpg

http://sys.us.shuttle.com/BuyList.aspx?id=1001&type=m

jaw04005

Nov 21, 2005, 09:34 AM

Tivo is using Microsoft's Digital Rights Management Technology in Tivo To Go. I don't see how Tivo can port TTG to Mac OS X, without a new DRM-capable Windows Media Player client from Microsoft.

It's unfortunate that users of QuickTime Pro for Windows will have to pay a fee to purchase yet another MPEG 4 player/convertor. I would just download one of the many free applications that are available that use the QT codec.

Bibulous

Nov 21, 2005, 09:40 AM

Arcus

Nov 21, 2005, 09:40 AM

Hmm... Right now people spend an average of 9 hours a day in front of the boob-tube. So with this connection they can increase that to 16? 24? Wow, I don't know how they do it!!!

Whoa , nine hours a day? Lets see:

Work: 14
Sleep: 6
Eat: 1
Practice Guitar: .5
Misc problems : .5
Read MacRumors: 1

berkleeboy210

Nov 21, 2005, 09:44 AM

TiVo has USB Ports right? I'd love just be able to plug my iPod in and drag and drop shows into it....

MhzDoesMatter

Nov 21, 2005, 09:50 AM

No, because it's WAY WAY WAY too complicated for the average techno-phobe user. Too many steps, too many things that can go wrong that the user doesn't understand. The reason video content on iTunes has been such a success it because it only takes an IQ of 100 to click "Buy Video." After that iTunes does all the work for the user. People will pay for the convenience.

Thus the tivo "Done Right." Possibly something similar to the method I explained. (Tivo shows up in iTunes side bar. Shows are double clickable, transfer is drag and drop, and syncing is automated.)

Herz

BornAgainMac

Nov 21, 2005, 09:54 AM

TiVo has USB Ports right? I'd love just be able to plug my iPod in and drag and drop shows into it....

That would be sweet. I never tried that.

I was curious one day so I poped out the harddrive to see if I can copy the MPEG-2 files off it. It seemed to be formatted using their own filesystem. I expected at least a standard Linux filesystem.

Aeolius

Nov 21, 2005, 09:56 AM

You could buy a PC Mini for about $500 - this would be a good way to see if you want to switch without risking a big investment

He used.....SARCASM!! ;) Seriously, though, I've been using Apple computers at home since 1979 and am stuck using the loathesome XP at work. I'm in the process of figuring out how to do a home automation package; lighting, HVAC, security cameras, whole-house audio/video, etc... without involving Windows.

ibook30

Nov 21, 2005, 10:02 AM

This is excellent news ! Makes it that much easier to justify a new purchase...

mahk

Nov 21, 2005, 10:02 AM

Y'all ... don't get too excited, and don't go running out to buy a Tivo.

It's NOT going to work on a Mac.

The TivoToGo function has never been supported on a Mac (despite them "working on it" for over a year, duping lots of Mac users into buying Tivos thinking they'll be able to burn their programs on DVDs) and they have never so much as made a statement about the status of implementing the feature.

Prove me wrong, Tivo, but until they do -- don't count on putting Tivo programs on your iPod unless you've got a PC.

rtdunham

Nov 21, 2005, 10:21 AM

this should be called "MacRumors for Windows Users"

Le Big Mac

Nov 21, 2005, 10:33 AM

this should be called "MacRumors for Windows Users"

:)

This is the ultimate insult--a feature for iPods that's available on windows boxes only. Ugh. Boo Tivo---get some support for macs. Or apple, buy those suckers out, you have the cash.

JDOG_

Nov 21, 2005, 10:48 AM

9 hours a day? I'd love to see the actual statistic on that...surely that's including children and the unemployed yeah? :rolleyes:

hayesk

Nov 21, 2005, 10:53 AM

kwajo.com

Nov 21, 2005, 10:58 AM

http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/031121/d031121a.htm

well here is a page from Statistics Canada from 2002 (a bit old I know) that has a very good weekly breakdown of TV viewing if you scroll to the bottom of the page. I know it isn't relevant, but it's interesting to note that french people in Quebec watch 5 hours more a week than anglophones

oliverlubin

Nov 21, 2005, 10:58 AM

This is great, but will we be able to do it with OSX?

doubt it. at least not for a while. sucks.

BWhaler

Nov 21, 2005, 11:06 AM

BWhaler

Nov 21, 2005, 11:10 AM

Like people are not going to share videos because it has a watermark.

Doubtful.

All it will take is the MPAA suing one person for $250,000 per incident. (Imagine 100,000 downloads)

When someone gets sued and found guilty for a multi-million dollar violation, it will go a long way to stopping copying.

On a related note, it's really watermarking which will put a serious dent in p2p. DRM is a hassle to customers, and is easily circumvented. But if people know you can be tracked and prosecuted, it'll change the game. But this will take some time to get into the conventional wisdom.

Aeolius

Nov 21, 2005, 11:16 AM

This is the ultimate insult--a feature for iPods that's available on windows boxes only. Ugh. Boo Tivo---get some support for macs. Or apple, buy those suckers out, you have the cash.

Perhaps TiVo has been reading the rumor sites, regarding Apple releasing their own DVR. ;)

Baked

Nov 21, 2005, 11:17 AM

I tried watching a few movie trailers on my video iPod. Can't do it for long, eye strain 'cause the screen's so small. I don't know how people do it.

Whoa , nine hours a day? Lets see:

Work: 14
Sleep: 6
Eat: 1
Practice Guitar: .5
Misc problems : .5
Read MacRumors: 1

That doesn't add up to 24 hrs.

MacTruck

Nov 21, 2005, 11:19 AM

Digital Watermarks? LAME.

MacTruck

Nov 21, 2005, 11:21 AM

Wouldn't one of those elGato eyeTV boxes be a much better choice than TiVo? The Mac support is there, and there are plenty of ways to convert the video a format suitable for iPods. I'm sure you'll start seeing AppleScripts to automate iTunes integration too.

YES. This is what I use and it ROCKS! Besides Tivo requires a landlline phone connection and my house is ALL cellular. Landline phones are a thing of the past.

mcdermd

Nov 21, 2005, 11:23 AM

It's unfortunate that users of QuickTime Pro for Windows will have to pay a fee to purchase yet another MPEG 4 player/convertor.

Most Windows users I know think QT is a player only, akin to WMP. They buy the Pro key so they can have full screen video. So it's really a shame that they'll pay a fee to purchase yet another MPEG 4 encoder when they already have one.

greenstork

Nov 21, 2005, 11:27 AM

If Apple doesn't bless it, it's crap.

How would it work anyway. The video would upload to iTunes, then to your iPod? Have a separate interface on your iPod? If it's too complicated, it won't get any traction in the market.]

Yeah, and if it's easy, like being able to browse your recorded TiVo shows in iTunes, then it will be a virtual gold mine.

The problem with the media PC is the clunky interface and poor remote on the TV side.

The problem with the pay per TV episode model is the poor connectivity to your TV.

This partnership has the potential to address both these problems, provided TiVo and Apple collaborate on the interface. It's the equivalent usability of podcasts, which were such a hit.

greenstork

Nov 21, 2005, 11:28 AM

Stewie

Nov 21, 2005, 11:29 AM

YES. This is what I use and it ROCKS! Besides Tivo requires a landlline phone connection and my house is ALL cellular. Landline phones are a thing of the past.

The series 2 TiV'so can use your broadband connection to connect to the TiVo service, no land line required. Plus you would need your TiVo hooked up to your home network to download the video.

Aeolius

Nov 21, 2005, 11:30 AM

This partnership has the potential to address both these problems, provided TiVo and Apple collaborate on the interface.

A Tivo addition to Front Row, perhaps?

greenstork

Nov 21, 2005, 11:31 AM

Wouldn't one of those elGato eyeTV boxes be a much better choice than TiVo? The Mac support is there, and there are plenty of ways to convert the video a format suitable for iPods. I'm sure you'll start seeing AppleScripts to automate iTunes integration too.

Yeah except el Gato doesn't have a brand name like TiVo. And, much more importantly, they don't have subscribers. Just follow the $$$ my friend, the TV content providers need compensation somehow and if they aren't getting through commecials that can now be FF'd through..... well you figure it out.

Flowbee

Nov 21, 2005, 11:33 AM

Hmm... Right now people spend an average of 9 hours a day in front of the boob-tube.

The actual average is more like 4.5 hours per day.

http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/facts_for_features/001702.html

http://www.csun.edu/~vceed002/health/docs/tv&health.html

greenstork

Nov 21, 2005, 11:33 AM

The series 2 TiV'so can use your broadband connection to connect to the TiVo service, no land line required. Plus you would need your TiVo hooked up to your home network to download the video.

Unless TiVo starts offering on-demand service (and I think they are piloting it), you don't need to download the TV. Apple, after all, has the download business taken care of. The advantage is being able to record whatever you want, without paying per episode.

oliverlubin

Nov 21, 2005, 11:40 AM

I'm sure if Apple blessed this venture that they insisted that it would work on a Mac.

There's NO WAY apple is involved with this venture. It goes against the new TV show purchase on the iTMS. Why buy a show for $2 if you can get it off your TiVo for free. Now not nearly all iPod owners have TiVo but it's against the principle in general.

dr_lha

Nov 21, 2005, 11:50 AM

Service not compatible with the Mac.

Tivo still continues to suck, and get worse and worse.. And as I say this as one of their first customers.

Doesn't the management of Tivo understand that Microsoft is their biggest competitor? The XBOX 360 and Home Media Center is going after their core and only market. They would be wise to encourage people to get off of Windows to OSX and Linux before Microsoft finishes them off in the next 24 months (in addition to the Cable companies.)

Xbox360 has no recording capabilities, so I don't see how its a competitor to TiVo. Ultimate TV was a competitor to TiVo but that sank, and the only product MS makes now is WinXP Media Editions, and the markets have shown that people arn't interested in having a computer to control their TV.

TiVo's biggest competitor is cheapo-but-good-enough DVRs from cable and satellite companies. They need to differentiate themselves in quality and value from these, otherwise people will go for the easier option all the time. Those of us who have TiVo know its a vastely superior system to any Cable company DVR, but the customer faced with a choice of $200 plus $12 a mont h compared to $10 a month for a cable company DVR is always going to go with te cheapest option.

Aeolius

Nov 21, 2005, 11:51 AM

Yeah except el Gato doesn't have a brand name like TiVo.

Elgato's CEO resigned in October, and now works for Apple Germany... makes you wonder if he had some inside information...

bigjohn

Nov 21, 2005, 11:57 AM

compared to real-time streaming....

aren't there people like me who still appreciate quality? watching tv on a phone sounds lame compared to watching at home on a real tv, no matter how handy it is on a portable device

oh, and i have 5 tivos for just that purpose

Aeolius

Nov 21, 2005, 12:02 PM

aren't there people like me who still appreciate quality? watching tv on a phone sounds lame compared to watching at home on a real tv, no matter how handy it is on a portable device... oh, and i have 5 tivos for just that purpose

Except real TVs have a 16:9 aspect ratio, not that antiquated 4:3 nonsense! ;) TiVo does not yet support HDTV content, as delivered by cable providers. So I'll stick with my HDTV capable Time-Warner DVR.

bigjohn

Nov 21, 2005, 12:07 PM

Except real TVs have a 16:9 aspect ratio, not that antiquated 4:3 nonsense! ;) TiVo does not yet support HDTV content, as delivered by cable providers. So I'll stick with my HDTV capable Time-Warner DVR.

whichever dvr you use, it's vastly superior to watching video on a phone or ipod, that was my original point (no matter how convenient it is)

i'm pretty happy archiving what i want from tv with my toshiba rs-tx20 tivo with dvd recorder... it can then be ripped to a portable device or laptop down the road anyway

BornAgainMac

Nov 21, 2005, 12:07 PM

grapes911

Nov 21, 2005, 12:10 PM

Tivo requires a initial connection using a phone line.
Yes, but it doesn't have to be yours. I don't have POTS so I took it to a friends house and did the initial setup. After that, you can use the network.

Le Big Mac

Nov 21, 2005, 12:11 PM

There's NO WAY apple is involved with this venture. It goes against the new TV show purchase on the iTMS. Why buy a show for $2 if you can get it off your TiVo for free. Now not nearly all iPod owners have TiVo but it's against the principle in general.

They're not making money on the TV shows. They make money selling theproduct that they can be shown on. If Tivo wants to do the same thing, and use the video iPod, apple would support that. More sales. The way Tivo is pricing these days, you might get a free tivo with the purchase of any video ipod.

wtmcgee

Nov 21, 2005, 12:17 PM

Hmm... Right now people spend an average of 9 hours a day in front of the boob-tube. So with this connection they can increase that to 16? 24? Wow, I don't know how they do it!!!

yea, you can't just make up stats that poorly and get away with it. I think 9 hours a week is more realistic. Show some documentation or stop wasting our time.

AidenShaw

Nov 21, 2005, 12:34 PM

aren't there people like me who still appreciate quality? watching tv on a phone sounds lame compared to watching at home on a real tv, no matter how handy it is on a portable device
Agreed....

But this whole article is about watching TV on an iPod - and my phone has a larger QVGA screen than the iPod.

http://www.samsungtelecom.com/usa/i730mid.gif

ccrandall77

Nov 21, 2005, 12:41 PM

I dumped Tivo because they don't support Macs. Also made sure they knew that on the feedback form.

I did the exact same thing. Why pay $12.95/mo for Tivo+ when all of the features won't work on a Mac? Instead, I paid $7.95 for a HD DVR from my cable company.

Then, instead of a Video iPod, I purchased an Archos AV-500... I just wish it had HD input, but SD recordings are fine. But now I have everything that Tivo2Go promised all in a Mac-compatible solution.

I also replaced the DVD that was with my Tivo player with my parent's Mac Mini that they didn't end up using. My entertainment center is now much more functional than ever with smaller and few components than before.

I just wish Apple would make an add-on for the Mac Mini that'd facilitate HD recording and an ability to export to regular DVD or a HD DVD format.

Aeolius

Nov 21, 2005, 12:41 PM

Wouldn't one of those elGato eyeTV boxes be a much better choice than TiVo?

From elgato's FAQ:

"Can EyeTV export video to an iPod? Yes. We are working on an update to the EyeTV software so that in future, exporting video to an iPod format will be one easy step."

radiskull

Nov 21, 2005, 12:41 PM

Yes, but it doesn't have to be yours. I don't have POTS so I took it to a friends house and did the initial setup. After that, you can use the network.

Actually, you can use a network connection for the initial setup. You have to put in a special prefix before the phone number. I've needed to do it and it worked.

meghop

Nov 21, 2005, 12:43 PM

Plus the TiVo Desktop software still doesn't work with Tiger, 10.3 only.

:rolleyes:

Am I the only one who has Tivo Desktop 1.9.1 working with 10.4? Mine works fine?

Le Big Mac

Nov 21, 2005, 12:48 PM

Am I the only one who has Tivo Desktop 1.9.1 working with 10.4? Mine works fine?

I think I have it working. I don't use it that much, but I'm pretty sure I reloaded it with Tiger and got it to work. Someone on the Tivo boards was saying this too.

I had to turn it off at one point because it started gobbling up the processor.

ccrandall77

Nov 21, 2005, 12:52 PM

Yeah except el Gato doesn't have a brand name like TiVo. And, much more importantly, they don't have subscribers. Just follow the $$$ my friend, the TV content providers need compensation somehow and if they aren't getting through commecials that can now be FF'd through..... well you figure it out.

Also, EyeTV cannot record Digital cable unless you hook it up to the cable box directly. Then you are SOL if you want to try to record something.

I've been working on a way around this by having an Automator task read the XML that EyeTV creates when it goes to record. Then with IRTrans' software, the Automator can send IR commands to the cable box to set it to the correct station.

However, now that I have my AV-500 and a TimeWarner DVR, I just make sure I schedule the same thing on the DVR and the AV-500 and that seems to work fine.

yellow

Nov 21, 2005, 12:53 PM

Whoopity Dooo.. now suppot TiVoToGo on Mac OS X and I'll give a crap.

LordJohnWhorfin

Nov 21, 2005, 01:04 PM

TivoTool (http://www.tivotool.com)

MacTruck

Nov 21, 2005, 01:17 PM

Why do I need a phone line for initial setup?

The TiVo® service needs to connect to your existing phone line once during setup to configure your TiVo box with the correct channel lineup.

Why do I need an existing phone line and/or broadband connection?

You can stay connected to the TiVo service either via your existing phone line or your wired/wireless home network and broadband connection. With a broadband connection you only need your phone line once for set-up, then use your broadband to stay connected. This connection keeps your program information up-to-date and ensures you always get the latest software upgrades automatically. Don't worry: Your TiVo® box will only use your phone line for a few minutes each day and will never interfere with your phone service or Internet connection.

yellow

Nov 21, 2005, 01:19 PM

TivoTool (http://www.tivotool.com)

Assuming I want to hack my TiVo.. monkeyboy. ;)

greenstork

Nov 21, 2005, 01:51 PM

There's NO WAY apple is involved with this venture. It goes against the new TV show purchase on the iTMS. Why buy a show for $2 if you can get it off your TiVo for free. Now not nearly all iPod owners have TiVo but it's against the principle in general.

I tend to think that you're right, Apple probably didn't endorse this project.

But I would add that sometimes you miss shows, even with TiVo, and the iTVS is a nice supplement.

It seems like this service may force Apple to co-opt it, just like podcasts did. I can imagine it being very popular and selling lots of iPods. So while it may destroy their pay per episode model, we all kind of knew that was bound to fail. There's so much more advertising revenue (read -competition) invested in video delivery than there is in audio. Instead of being the biggest fish in a relatively small pond that was music, Apple now finds itself a small fish in a really big pond.

It was a coup to get such a validation from record companies in support of the iTMS but Apple will be hard pressed to get the same cooperation from the TV execs. Everyone from the cable companies, to the phone companies, to Microsoft, wants a piece of the action.

To me, the pay per episode model seems shabby compared to the TiVo model and if an Apple fanatic like me think there are better tools out there than the iTVS for getting my favorite television, then Apple is in trouble. For success, Apple needs all of its fanboys and more with the competition it will soon face.

greenstork

Nov 21, 2005, 01:54 PM

Stewie

Nov 21, 2005, 01:59 PM

TiVo's biggest competitor is cheapo-but-good-enough DVRs from cable and satellite companies. They need to differentiate themselves in quality and value from these, otherwise people will go for the easier option all the time. Those of us who have TiVo know its a vastely superior system to any Cable company DVR, but the customer faced with a choice of $200 plus $12 a mont h compared to $10 a month for a cable company DVR is always going to go with te cheapest option.

I have both a TiVo and a Comcast DVR. The Comcast unit has an awful interface. It is painful to try and find or schedule a show. However the Comcast DVR not only does HD, but also has a dual-tuner. Needless to say my TiVo doesn't get very much use as once you go HD, you don't want to go back. Also if you compare the monthly cost, Comcast is cheaper. Now if TiVo would come out with a dual-tuner HD (non Direct TV) unit I would gladly switch back.

lord patton

Nov 21, 2005, 02:03 PM

They're not making money on the TV shows. They make money selling the product that they can be shown on.

that's exactly right. Apple should offer to do all they can to support TivoToGo, on OS X and Windows...
...unless they plan to make a "media center" type Mac Mini that will function as a DVR with great interfacing/usability :D

greenstork

Nov 21, 2005, 02:05 PM

They're not making money on the TV shows. They make money selling theproduct that they can be shown on. If Tivo wants to do the same thing, and use the video iPod, apple would support that. More sales. The way Tivo is pricing these days, you might get a free tivo with the purchase of any video ipod.

You're forgetting the all important constituency of the content providers, the TV studios themselves. And they control who gets that content. If you don't have a model to pay these people, you don't have content (except for smaller, no name companies that have no hope of significant market adoption - like El Gato). Both TiVo and Apple have a way to pay TV studios. I tend to think that the studios prefer Apple's pay-per-episode model but DVRs just won't go away, it's out of their hands so they are forced to find a way to profit from them. TiVo, at least, offers a subscriber base and revenue for the TV studios while El Gato and the likes, do not. So while TiVo isn't going away anytime soon, it certainly isn't the best thing since sliced bread, in the eyes of the TV studios at least.

The TV studios have to find a way to make money on the shows themselves, be it through advertising, product placement, or pay-per-episode. Without money, they can't produce the shows. What I'm saying is that TV studios are going to find companies to collaborate with on these projects who offer them the best profit for their content. It may be Apple, Comcast, Verizon, Microsoft or a dozen others who want to be in everyone's living room and on everyone's computer.

greenstork

Nov 21, 2005, 02:07 PM

Agreed....

But this whole article is about watching TV on an iPod - and my phone has a larger QVGA screen than the iPod.

http://www.samsungtelecom.com/usa/i730mid.gif

I'm sure we can agree that this is as much about watching TV on portable devices as it is about being able to transport your TV shows to whatever computer or TV you want to watch it on.

SummerBreeze

Nov 21, 2005, 02:19 PM

I guess it's pretty cool, but since the tivo doesn't work with OS X (and since I don't have a video iPod) it's not gonna change my life.

At home we have a cable company DVR, and it may not be as great an interface but it gets the job done for practically free. The expensive subscription (sure, 14 bucks doesn't seem like much but when barely have enough money to pay rent it's a huge luxury) just isn't worth it, and if I had the money I would definitely buy an eyeTV instead.

greenstork

Nov 21, 2005, 02:23 PM

According to Mac Observer, who apparently contacted TiVo when this story was released:

http://www.macobserver.com/article/2005/11/21.8.shtml

TiVo announced a new version of its TiVoToGo service on Monday, but it won't support the Mac. The Mac Observer contacted representatives at TiVo who confirmed the information. TiVo plans on adding Mac support in mid to late 2006.

The new TiVoToGo service will roll out some time in early 2006, and will let Windows users download programs recorded on their TiVo to an iPod or Sony PSP. A trial run with select TiVo users is scheduled to begin shortly.

TiVo has claimed that it is working on a Mac version of the TiVoToGo service for some time, and this would be a perfect time to introduce it. Unfortunately, Mac users will have to continue to wait until later in the year.

grapes911

Nov 21, 2005, 02:25 PM

Actually, you can use a network connection for the initial setup. You have to put in a special prefix before the phone number. I've needed to do it and it worked.
I called TiVo and they told me that the drivers needed for network connections did not come with the software version that came with the TiVo. I use a code now to force the TiVo to use the LAN connection.

dicklacara

Nov 21, 2005, 02:29 PM

To me, the pay per episode model seems shabby compared to the TiVo model and if an Apple fanatic like me think there are better tools out there than the iTVS for getting my favorite television, then Apple is in trouble. For success, Apple needs all of its fanboys and more with the competition it will soon face.

What you say is mostly true:

1) ITVS @ $1.99 per show (no commercials, fast(er) download)

vs

2) Tivo2Go @ $0 per show (commercials slow(er) download).

assuming... assuming... that the same content is available from both sources.

And, there's the difference:

Tivo2Go will, likely, always have the advantage of currently available content (this week/month/year's TV Programs and Reruns).

But there is a pile of content that is not currently being televised!

What if someone wants to buy/show, on demand: Ally McBeal, Milton Berle, SNL with Chevy Chase, SuperBowl III, the Hitchcock "Leg of Lamb" episode, Jean Shepherd's tribute to "Beer"... yadda, yadda, yadda.

This stuff exists!

Some people (me included) want to buy this stuff!

I don't think the current business model for TV programming can justify broadcasting these: 1) to make money; and 2) satisfy a the (relatively) small demand.

But, take this content, convert it to digital (when necessary) and offer it for sale/download/streaming on the web... all it takes is some server space & bandwidth!

This is where I think the iTVS will succeed: by offering something, that you just can't get anywhere else, at any price!

Dick

bigjohn

Nov 21, 2005, 02:29 PM

According to Mac Observer, who apparently contacted TiVo when this story was released:

http://www.macobserver.com/article/2005/11/21.8.shtml

TiVo plans on adding Mac support in mid to late 2006.

is it really that hard to create a frontend for your tivo for os x? i think tivo is stalling until apple makes a play towards "something" whether it be a small step like opening up some source/SDK, etc or a bigger play like making an investment. when apple shells out $1.25B for flash memory, i question why they haven't made a stronger move on another hardware entity.

yellow

Nov 21, 2005, 02:32 PM

Hmmm.. it came down from above in TiVo a while back that they had dropped plans on bringing TiVoToGo to the Mac.

From the dailypensylvanian.com (http://www.dailypennsylvanian.com/vnews/display.v/ART/425e17f82bf08)

However, the overlap of users of Apple and TiVo has not been enough to strike any chemistry between the companies.

"We haven't committed to any plans [for integration] to it because of the cost," Courtney said.

He added that being able to watch media on Apple computers using TiVo seems unlikely "unless we find a way to record it under the current platform, and I don't think that will happen in the next few years."

I guess not commiting to finish the product and dropping plans are different things. But this still seems like a kick in the pants to me. Even if it is from April 05. And things change, I guess.

p0intblank

Nov 21, 2005, 02:32 PM

yellow

Nov 21, 2005, 02:36 PM

Either way, this will be pretty sweet. Let's just hope the transfer rate isn't painfully slow.

The current hardware on a TiVo only supports USB 1.1, AFAIK. You won't be transfering to your viPod from there. You'll be transfering it to your PC and then to your viPod.

thirdwaver

Nov 21, 2005, 02:40 PM

I'm not a sue happy person, but I genuinely feel duped by TiVo. I'd definitely sign on to a class-action. I was an early adopter of the TiVo and, based on their support for Macintosh, an early purchaser of the Home Media option. Shortly after I bought the latter, they basically abandoned Mac (it appears to be working in Tiger these days but I'm not sure how or why it wasn't working originally - and I still can't play my AAC files so 1/3 of my music collection is inaccessible).

I feel duped and want my $200 back. I'll put it towards a Mac Mini so I can dedicate a machine to recording and be done with it.

Stewie

Nov 21, 2005, 02:45 PM

With the program iRecord (http://mac.softpedia.com/get/Multimedia/iRecord.shtml) and a firewire cable hooked up to your Cable box you should be able to record your own shows and do with them what you want. Of course your results will vary depending on the type of Cable box you have, but it will cost nothing to find out if yours works since iRecord is free.

puckhead193

Nov 21, 2005, 02:46 PM

Just the other day i was thinking of getting tivo but i want the functionality to put it ony computer? is their a way to do it on a mac?

i think its funny that the ipod is made from apple yet we can't use this new service...

riversky

Nov 21, 2005, 02:52 PM

Tivo doesn't support Mac and I am willing to bet that this will PISS off the motion picture companies/and TV guys that Apple will have a much more difficult time dealing with them for a "iMovie Store" and perhaps not at all. Especially if online downloading starts. Perhaps Apple will then come back with some firmware update that kills the files. Who knows...But I read this as bad news for any future Apple service.

Also you can bet the software WON'T run on OS X.

:mad:

EricNau

Nov 21, 2005, 02:53 PM

I don't think this will go anywhere.

radiskull

Nov 21, 2005, 03:15 PM

I called TiVo and they told me that the drivers needed for network connections did not come with the software version that came with the TiVo. I use a code now to force the TiVo to use the LAN connection.

OK, if we are talking about the same thing, the dialing prefix ,#401 plus a phone number will allow you to go through the initial setup using a LAN.

npm

Nov 21, 2005, 03:21 PM

Tivo requires a initial connection using a phone line.

Not anymore!!! No more prefixes needed. The latest software asks (during setup) if you want to use telephone or broadband connection to the TiVo service.

LordJohnWhorfin

Nov 21, 2005, 03:57 PM

This is awesome because we just switched to DirecTV and they use TiVo for the DVR capabilities. So I guess that's what the USB ports on the back of the unit are used for? Or can a keyboard also be connected?

Either way, this will be pretty sweet. Let's just hope the transfer rate isn't painfully slow.

Not quite. The DirecTV units do not and will not support video extraction. Hack it, hack it, hack it! Hacked DirecTV receivers ROCK :)

greenstork

Nov 21, 2005, 04:19 PM

http://www.macworld.com/news/2005/11/21/tivointerview/index.php

Highlights:

Mac version promised by mid-2006
No collaboration with Apple or integration with iTMS
Seamless integration with your iPod
Overnight encoding and transfer
Format is all H.264

p0intblank

Nov 21, 2005, 04:25 PM

Not quite. The DirecTV units do not and will not support video extraction. Hack it, hack it, hack it! Hacked DirecTV receivers ROCK :)

Oh well... at least Bit Torrent will never let me down. :D

Qunchuy

Nov 21, 2005, 04:55 PM

is it really that hard to create a frontend for your tivo for os x?
The problem is simple: TiVo used a DRM scheme that only has Windows support for playback. It looks like they've given up on trying to implement a Mac solution for decrypting the shows (after "working hard" on it for nearly a year, according to the TiVo web site FAQ), and are now going to use this "watermark" scheme instead.

Qunchuy

Nov 21, 2005, 04:57 PM

The current hardware on a TiVo only supports USB 1.1, AFAIK.
The hardware is 2.0-capable, and has been for years. However, the supplied drivers only use the 1.1 abilities. (There are hacks which install a USB 2.0 driver.)

joemama

Nov 21, 2005, 05:21 PM

greenstork

Nov 21, 2005, 05:45 PM

People please do not forget the most important issue here - You need a Tivo AND a 5G ipod!...My guess is not too many people have both. First off, Tivo is terrible (I know because I ((had)) one). You can only record one show at a time, it's slow changing channels, and cost 13$ bucks a month!!!

DVRs are cheaper (mine were free with Dish Network) and can record 2 items at once.

The question is not how well will this service work, but how does Tivo plan on staying in business? What they should do is stop making hardware and license out their software (minus the annoying blleeeeppp sound).

Not all TiVo set-top boxes are created equal, there are probably 100 different kinds, or more.

Your example is analogous to saying that all DVDs suck because your DVD player sucked.

I have a 250GB TiVo unit that records two things at once and has great quality and I only pay $6 per month for the service. The season pass feature is excellent and I've never considered the program guide to be slow. I have however, had a crappy TiVo box so I do know where you are coming from, but with my current setup, it's just great.

EricNau

Nov 21, 2005, 05:49 PM

Not all TiVo set-top boxes are created equal, there are probably 100 different kinds, or more.

Your example is analogous to saying that all DVDs suck because your DVD player sucked.

I have a 250GB TiVo unit that records two things at once and has great quality and I only pay $6 per month for the service. The season pass feature is excellent and I've never considered the program guide to be slow. I have however, had a crappy TiVo box so I do know where you are coming from, but with my current setup, it's just great.
Were both 'TiVo' brand? On tivo's website (http://www.tivo.com/2.0.asp) they only show 3 models.
And tivo only has one monthly fee (http://www.tivo.com/2.3.asp) , for $12.95 a month (or a one time fee of $299).

Sounds like your new TiVo box isn't really a TiVo.

Tupring

Nov 21, 2005, 06:15 PM

You could buy a PC Mini for about $500 - this would be a good way to see if you want to switch without risking a big investmentSwitch from a Mac to a PeeCee? :eek: :mad:

bigjohn

Nov 21, 2005, 06:24 PM

Tivo doesn't support Mac and I am willing to bet that this will PISS off the motion picture companies/and TV guys that Apple will have a much more difficult time dealing with them for a "iMovie Store"

wait til tivo finds out that the tv/movie industry is awash with mac users. let's see, i'm in the tv business and my main machine is a mac, why would i want to license something i can't even use myself at home?

bigjohn

Nov 21, 2005, 06:24 PM

Oh well... at least Bit Torrent will never let me down. :D

Oh well... at least Usenet will never let me down. :D

bigjohn

Nov 21, 2005, 06:26 PM

Westside guy

Nov 21, 2005, 06:42 PM

To those who are saying this won't work with the Mac:

Think it through. If it's compatible with the iPod, it has to be compatible with the Mac. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. Windows Media DRM doesn't work with the iPod.

Whether it will be "officially supported" through TivoToGo for the Mac is another matter - but finding a work-around will almost certainly be trivial. Certainly easier than the current Mac work-around (http://www.salingfamily.net/trav/osx/tivo1.html) (disclaimer - the link is to one of my own pages). I would guess it'll be as easy as browsing the built-in web server on your Series 2 Tivo.

superstring

Nov 21, 2005, 07:08 PM

For what it is worth, even though tivo's website claims that tivo desktop does not work with Tiger, I have been using it just fine on Tiger. I am able to view my iTunes and iPhoto libraries just fine on tivo. While it doesn't yet support TivoToGo like the PC, the music and photo cababilities are much easier than on the PC because they use iPhoto and iTunes so you don't have to do anything more to get them to show up once you have downloaded the software and share them.

While it is a bummer tivo doesn't support aac, I suspect that has more to do with Apple not licensing that technology (they seem to want to keep that for themselves rather than license to anyone else - motorola ROKR is the only one I can think of).

anyway, if they do launch TivoToGo for the mac, that might just make me want to get a new iPod (though I kow their hope is that iPod video owners will buy tivo).

stevieled

Nov 21, 2005, 07:16 PM

even though Tivo barely supports mac for anything...on on of the pages on their website (http://www.tivo.com/1.2.asp) there is a picture of a powerbook running their website...why feature a mac on their site and not support macs whatsoever?

ingenious

Nov 21, 2005, 07:18 PM

There are those of us who do not have Windows boxes in our homes, you know. ;)

amen to that! (ok, so there's one rotting the garage [i got an iMac G5 (revision before camera), one rotting on my sister's desk [she has an iBook G4], and one on my mom's floor [she has an iBook (G3)]).

The only way apple would bless this is for it to be in the iTMS. I mean, really, how else would apple go with it?

greenstork

Nov 21, 2005, 07:46 PM

Were both 'TiVo' brand? On tivo's website (http://www.tivo.com/2.0.asp) they only show 3 models.
And tivo only has one monthly fee (http://www.tivo.com/2.3.asp) , for $12.95 a month (or a one time fee of $299).

Sounds like your new TiVo box isn't really a TiVo.

Just because TiVo only sells three models on their site, doesn't mean there aren't many more out there. I may have exaggerated with 100 models, but there are dozens of models from many manufacturers. Here's a quick search on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/search/ref=xs_ap_l_xgl23/103-0237401-6983850?search-alias=electronics-aps&keywords=tivo

And, as you can see on the DirecTV site, their basic TiVo service is only $5.99 a month:

http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/imagine/TIVOPricing.jsp

Arcady

Nov 21, 2005, 09:05 PM

Not quite. The DirecTV units do not and will not support video extraction. Hack it, hack it, hack it! Hacked DirecTV receivers ROCK :)

I have 6 DirecTV with TiVo units all networked, and I can exchange shows between them or download to my Mac or video iPod with a single click. Hacking them is really not that hard, and TiVo Tool fills in the software blanks.

Also, someone said that TiVo Desktop does not work in Tiger. This is false. It works fine for me here on a PowerMac G4 and G5, and two PowerBook G4's.

joemama

Nov 21, 2005, 11:02 PM

Just because TiVo only sells three models on their site, doesn't mean there aren't many more out there. I may have exaggerated with 100 models, but there are dozens of models from many manufacturers. Here's a quick search on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/search/ref=xs_ap_l_xgl23/103-0237401-6983850?search-alias=electronics-aps&keywords=tivo

And, as you can see on the DirecTV site, their basic TiVo service is only $5.99 a month:

http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/imagine/TIVOPricing.jsp

I was referring to stand-alone models, not ones partnered with DirectTV, etc. Perhaps these are faster because it is tied (sp) into the system itself, but this is not the case with stand-alones.

And if you are paying the 6 bucks for an additional unit, then does this mean you are actually paying 19$ for both?

I think the software is pretty good, and I like that they are going the Comcast route. I also think they have to do this to survive. But again, it's just a matter of time before they are out of business or sold.

Westside guy

Nov 22, 2005, 12:45 AM

Mac version promised by mid-2006

Yes, and IMHO it'll likely be for Intel Macs only.

Arcady

Nov 22, 2005, 12:54 AM

And if you are paying the 6 bucks for an additional unit, then does this mean you are actually paying 19$ for both?

You pay $5.99 for having any number of DVR's on your account. You also pay $4.99 for each extra receiver (DVR or not.) So if you had two TiVo boxes on your satellite account, you would pay $5.99 DVR fee plus $4.99 for the second box. In my case, I have 6 boxes, so I pay the DVR fee plus $24.95 for 5 additional receivers. (Keep in mind that each DirectTV TiVo has dual tuners, so I have 12 tuners active on my account.)

artifex

Nov 22, 2005, 08:16 AM

Much better for me to copy the unrestricted, unwatermarked mpeg-2s directly from my ReplayTV, and then resize/convert them... :) For free, of course.

Big Lar

Nov 22, 2005, 02:53 PM

[QUOTE=mahk] (despite them "working on it" for over a year, duping lots of Mac users into buying Tivos thinking they'll be able to burn their programs on DVDs)

If I remember right, it was about a year ago that TiVo said they weren't actually working on it and had no plans to support TiVo2Go on a Mac.

I bought a Humax Tivo box with a built in DVD burner. So I take my movies with me on DVD. Then there is DVDxDV....

MattG

Dec 1, 2005, 03:29 PM

I just got this in an email from TiVo:

TiVo announces intention to support iPod!
Did you hear? TiVo announced the intention to support the new Apple® iPod and Sony PSP as early as the first quarter of 2006! You'll be able to use the TiVoToGo™ feature to transfer TiVo® recordings on your networked TiVo® box to your PC and sync to your video iPod automatically.

We'll kick off a beta program for this new feature enhancement in the coming weeks. Visit tivo.com/togo for updates or keep reading this newsletter and I'll keep you posted. And if you're at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas in January, stop by for a demo.

(Confidential to my Mac buddies: I know, I know. But this announcement, while still PC-specific, bodes very well. Hang in there—we are targeting mid-2006 for Mac support for TivoToGo™!)

Ugh

MacUser4_20

Dec 1, 2005, 09:33 PM

You beat me to it, was just copying my email to submit... good things in the works, but it looks like Yahoo! took on the dynasty first, now if they will only support linking to people's .Mac accounts to share photos and such:

Go ahead, shout it from the mountaintops: TiVo teamed up with Yahoo! to offer TiVo Online Scheduling features on Yahoo! TV. So you Yahoo! TV users can now schedule recordings of your favorite TV shows on your networked TiVo Series2™ DVR from anywhere you access Yahoo! TV. (Don't yet have a Yahoo ID? Sign up and schedule away!)

Also starting this week, and also thanks to our friends at Yahoo!, you'll be able to check local weather and traffic, and view your friends' Yahoo! photo albums, right from the comfort of your couch. If you have a TiVo® Series2™ DVR connected to your home network you've already got what it takes to enjoy these new features. If not, well… hmmm… have you not been picking up on my none-too-subtle "It's really time to get connected, in a now-more-than-ever-kind-of-way" theme the past, oh, five newsletters? Because...

Geez, there's even more!

* Explore the latest and greatest in the music scene with Live365, the Internet's largest radio network. Tune in to hundreds of stations right from your TiVo® box.
* Buy local movie tickets. Check what's playing at your local theaters and even buy tickets in advance enabled by Fandango.
* Listen to thought-provoking or entertaining talk shows with the new podcast feature.

Look for a message on your TiVo® box to announce the arrival of these mind-blowing new features (your TiVo® Series2™ DVR is automatically updated as part of your regular TiVo® service (there's nothing you need to do), or if you just can't stand the wait, add yourself to the Priority List and take long, deep breaths.

Don't have a TiVo® Series2™ DVR? Time to treat yourself.

I just got this in an email from TiVo:

TiVo announces intention to support iPod!
Did you hear? TiVo announced the intention to support the new Apple® iPod and Sony PSP as early as the first quarter of 2006! You'll be able to use the TiVoToGo™ feature to transfer TiVo® recordings on your networked TiVo® box to your PC and sync to your video iPod automatically.

We'll kick off a beta program for this new feature enhancement in the coming weeks. Visit tivo.com/togo for updates or keep reading this newsletter and I'll keep you posted. And if you're at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas in January, stop by for a demo.

(C[/i]
onfidential to my Mac buddies: I know, I know. But this announcement, while still PC-specific, bodes very well. Hang in there—we are targeting mid-2006 for Mac support for TivoToGo™!)

Ugh