iTunes in Top 10 U.S. Music Retailers

[MacRumors]

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An NPD Press release (http://www.npd.com/dynamic/releases/press_051121a.html) is making headlines around the Mac web.

According to The NPD Group, in Q3 2005, Apple's iTunes Music store made its way into the Top 10 list of U.S. retailers based on "equivalent number of units sold". (Number in parenthesis are 2004's Q3 position)


1. Wal-Mart (1)
2. Best Buy (2)
3. Target (3)
4. Amazon.com (4)
5. FYE (10)
6. Circuit City (Tied for 5)
7. Apple\iTunes (14)
8. Tower Records (Tied for 7)
9. Sam Goody (Tied for 5)
10. Borders (9)

NPD used 12 tracks per album in order to compare sales between physical CDs and individual tracks.

[Lacero]

Awesome. Long time it hasn't been already included. Next milestone target: surpassing Amazon.

Also link from zdnet:

http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9595_22-5965314.html

[iDM]

I would have assumed that this was the case anyway, but it's nice to actually see it!

[dlastmango]

Walmart is cheapest arent they?... so if Apple inroduces variable pricing they will no longer be on the chart...

Just my 2 cents.

[BornAgainMac]

This means a lot of people still buy music the old fashion way.

[ibook30]

Hopefully this will give apple more juice when negotiating with the recording industry. (more apple juice!)

[SPUY767]

here's the gig folks. This is flawed data. People are counting every CD as the rough equivalent of 12 iTMS tracks. The reasons that this is borked are A) note every CD Has 12 Tracks, Lots have Less, B) The data counts CDs that people buy for only one Track as 12 Tracks, and C) It vcounts iTunes Purchased albums as the actual Number of Tracks instead of the Default 12. Granted, C is peobably just as well since just as many albums have more than 12 Tracks as Have less. With iTMS people have the option to skip those tracks therefore artificially deflating the iTunes Numbers. If there were some way to Track it, which there isn't, and it were possible to make an Apples to Apples comparison, no pun intended, Apple's rank would jump by 1 or 2 spots at least. Punching Out.

[bigandy]

nae bad, nae bad...

[AoWolf]

So this must include CD's sold too right? If thats pretty amazing.

[revjay]

This is a MacRumor how???

[guez]

iTunes is still much too flaky for my tastes. Album buying, for instance, has been down since at least yesterday (at least for me). You are not warned about the issue before you click on buy, but after. This produces a less than optimal buying experience: somewhat analagous to showing up at the register with a CD and being told by a Walmart clerk that they won't sell it to you.

Although I do use iTunes music store occasionally, I also have to confess to an unpleasant early experience, as well. My wife gave me a gift certificate two years ago. At the time, iTunes did not ask for confirmation before activating the gift certificate from an email. As a result, the $50 was inadvertantly added to my wife's account, not mine. Apple would not move the credit. Although I can still use the songs, this is the kind of thing that makes you think twice about Apple's DRM.

Finally, I know many of you out there are not sympathetic, but the iTunes Music Store/iPod gapless playback issue is still a barrier for many of us. It is aggravating to see videos added but this basic functionality still lacking.

I guess that what I am trying to say is that while iTunes may be the best thing out there, it still has a long way to go...

[killemall4130]

iTunes is still much too flaky for my tastes. Album buying, for instance, has been down since at least yesterday (at least for me). You are not warned about the issue before you click on buy, but after. This produces a less than optimal buying experience: somewhat analagous to showing up at the register with a CD and being told by a Walmart clerk that they won't sell it to you.

Although I do use iTunes music store occasionally, I also have to confess to an unpleasant early experience, as well. My wife gave me a gift certificate two years ago. At the time, iTunes did not ask for confirmation before activating the gift certificate from an email. As a result, the $50 was inadvertantly added to my wife's account, not mine. Apple would not move the credit. Although I can still use the songs, this is the kind of thing that makes you think twice about Apple's DRM.

Finally, I know many of you out there are not sympathetic, but the iTunes Music Store/iPod gapless playback issue is still a barrier for many of us. It is aggravating to see videos added but this basic functionality still lacking.

I guess that what I am trying to say is that while iTunes may be the best thing out there, it still has a long way to go...

agree with ^

and why buy ur tunes anyways, i dont get it?

[devilot]

Walmart is cheapest arent they?... so if Apple inroduces variable pricing they will no longer be on the chart...

Just my 2 cents.Apple's iTMS has a wide selection and I'm willing to bet that they have more songs/CDs (as well as less mainstream but still greatly loved artists) than Walmart carries.

[Josh396]

This is a MacRumor how???
They're just keeping us up to date with how Apple is doing with the iTMS. I'm sure a lot of people here were glad to read it.

[Lacero]

Apple's iTMS has a wide selection and I'm willing to bet that they have more songs/CDs (as well as less mainstream but still greatly loved artists) than Walmart carries.
Walmart and brick & mortar stores of their kind are dying because they only stock the most popular mainstream music. It gets expensive to store and display millions of songs. With something like iTMS, it follows the Amazon.com model of selling fewer songs from a much more diverse selection.

[Chaszmyr]

I would have expected Best Buy to be #1, Amazon to be #2, and Apple to be #3

[Uragon]

well, i guess this is bad for Apple, the record labels are reading this too... and definitely would want a share of it.....

[FireArse]

This is a MacRumor how???

My extact thoughts.

[muffinman]

sweet. walmart your going down! :)

[IJ Reilly]

One of the top 10 music retailers. Just so we're clear. (The article headline wasn't.)

[Jschultz]

agree with ^

and why buy ur tunes anyways, i dont get it?

Some of us actually support the artists, maybe?

And it gets hard to find some of what I want in 320kbps alot of times. Why not have CD quality and be done with it?

(note that I don't buy top 40 garbage, but rather Springsteen and other classic rock)

[SPUY767]

agree with ^

and why buy ur tunes anyways, i dont get it?

As opposed to stealing them you theiving troll?

[mcarnes]

note that I don't buy top 40 garbage, but rather Springsteen

Glory Days? :p

[rikers_mailbox]

This is a MacRumor how???

Oh, please. Are we going to have this conversation again (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=160447)?

I'm sorry, but stop holding on to the view that MR is exclusively rumors. MR is here to facilitate discussion about Apple and Apple-related news (including rumors). Please just accept that and move on to something more productive for all of us.

[lifeboy001]

here's the gig folks. This is flawed data. People are counting every CD as the rough equivalent of 12 iTMS tracks. The reasons that this is borked are A) note every CD Has 12 Tracks, Lots have Less, B) The data counts CDs that people buy for only one Track as 12 Tracks, and C) It vcounts iTunes Purchased albums as the actual Number of Tracks instead of the Default 12. Granted, C is peobably just as well since just as many albums have more than 12 Tracks as Have less. With iTMS people have the option to skip those tracks therefore artificially deflating the iTunes Numbers. If there were some way to Track it, which there isn't, and it were possible to make an Apples to Apples comparison, no pun intended, Apple's rank would jump by 1 or 2 spots at least. Punching Out.

Lots have more than 12 tracks too, you can't just use data that suits your argument. One of the biggest recent sellers was Kanye West's new CD which sported 23 tracks. I think anywhere between 10-12 is a valid average, and I'm sure they did the research to back it up.

Along those lines, we understand iTunes sells singles and regular retailers do not. It does not discount the results that have been posted by any means; this is merely a ranking of sales. Should we have to include price comparisons too? Borders regularly sells CD's in the $18 range while you can get them for $10 on iTunes. This however, was not the point of the article.

[heyjp]

well, i guess this is bad for Apple, the record labels are reading this too... and definitely would want a share of it.....

You think this is news to the record companies? Remember Walmart, Target & Best Buy write them checks every month just like Apple does. They know where this is going.

Of course, what we don't know is the distance between #1 and #7. Brick and mortar may be WAY in the lead still, or feeling hot breath from behind.

Interesting stuff.

Jim

[VanMac]

Good headway. Up from #14 to #7

I've bought my latest albums all from iTunes. Very convenient ( and cheaper too).

[revjay]

Oh, please. Are we going to have this conversation again (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=160447)?

I'm sorry, but stop holding on to the view that MR is exclusively rumors. MR is here to facilitate discussion about Apple and Apple-related news (including rumors). Please just accept that and move on to something more productive for all of us.
I guess I had a brain fart and thought I was a troll...thanks for the food!
You're right...but my favourite part of this site are the rumours

(spell check complete...rumour has a "U" in it).

[Lacero]

I prefer to spell it with a U also, but this is an american website and the audience is primarily americans, so I follow their convention.

[SPUY767]

Lots have more than 12 tracks too, you can't just use data that suits your argument. One of the biggest recent sellers was Kanye West's new CD which sported 23 tracks. I think anywhere between 10-12 is a valid average, and I'm sure they did the research to back it up.

Along those lines, we understand iTunes sells singles and regular retailers do not. It does not discount the results that have been posted by any means; this is merely a ranking of sales. Should we have to include price comparisons too? Borders regularly sells CD's in the $18 range while you can get them for $10 on iTunes. This however, was not the point of the article.

Your newbie title fits. I never discounted the fact that albunms have more than 12 tracks, wuite to the contrary, I pointed it out. The point of my post was to say that since iTunes sells singles, and you can buy Just "Slave for You" instead of the whole album and the 11 filler songs that this survey counts as purchases, the numbers are skewed. Let's throw a totally random average out there and say that people only buy albums for about 3/4 of the songs that are on there. Tack an extra 25% to apple's number and see where you end up. You argument is, in fact, the one that doesn't make sense, price doesn't figure into the equation. Oh, and Kanye West is maybe a little retarded, anyone heard some of the things he's said?

[steve_hill4]

This is a MacRumor how???
Just to twist it in a bit more, I agree that this site is more than just rumors. The news boards, (which this is on), are primarily based around rumors, but also apple related news. So if Microsoft and intel come out in favour of HD-DVD, as recently, it will get added as news because it potentially affects apple hardware and software. If we skipped over news like this, it would get posted in random places or people would begin to complain it was ignored.

I for one am happy that the traditional retailers are still doing well though. As much as I back the iTMS, I prefer to own lossless CDs with their art and no need to back it up in case my hard drive goes down. I can see apple offering this as broadband gets faster, but once they offer it for more than downloading the aac version of the track, it will cost even more in the shops than it does now. I still find a lot of my CDs are cheaper or the same price as iTMS, so I buy the CDs with no feelings of spending more.

[p0intblank]

Not bad. :) Regarding Wal-Mart however... I didn't know they beat out Best Buy when it came to music sales. :eek:

[john_satc]

Don't the US have stores that sell just music (and DVDs)? Like over here we have HMV, Virgin, Music Zone and Tower? I see Tower in the list but no music only stores. I would never dream of buying music from ASDA, our Wallmart, there is simply not enough selection. Im confused!

[mac-er]

EDIT:
Don't the US have stores that sell just music (and DVDs)? Like over here we have HMV, Virgin, Music Zone and Tower? I see Tower in the list but no music only stores.
Yep...Tower Records, Sam Goody. FYE could also fit in that bill, though they sell DVDs and video games too. (Sam Goody and Tower Records only sell music, I think...at least they did the last time I went in.) The problem with these music-only stores in the US is three-fold I would imagine:
1. Their prices are much higher than big box stores because they cannot buy the same volume.
2. Their locations are not as convenient as big box stores.
3. They don't advertise a la the Sunday circulars of Best Buy, Target.

And, now, my original post:

The interesting thing about the rankings is that traditional "music" stores like Sam Goody and Tower Records are dropping.

I cannot recall the last time I went into a "record store" (a la Camelot or Sam Goody). I guess their time is coming to an end.

Not good for CCity to see they are dropping too, while their competitor (Best Buy) is second.

[hvfsl]

They're just keeping us up to date with how Apple is doing with the iTMS. I'm sure a lot of people here were glad to read it.

Probably right, but I would still prefer some more Intel PowerBook rumors, maybe with some specs this time.:D (Since I am looking to get one the moment they are released).

[buddhagoth]

You think this is news to the record companies? Remember Walmart, Target & Best Buy write them checks every month just like Apple does. They know where this is going.

Of course, what we don't know is the distance between #1 and #7. Brick and mortar may be WAY in the lead still, or feeling hot breath from behind.



Kind sir, you are unfortunately misinformed, as are most of the folks out there. No they do NOT write checks every month. This is sadly for all not even close to how the business actually works. In pleasant contrast to everyone else, Apple reports within 30 days of the end of each month and pays directly into the label's bank accounts. However, stores such as you cite buy their product from many layers of distributors who jerk labels around with the "returns game" which means playing fancy tricks with accounting. A label is lucky to get paid on "Net-365" if at all.

This is one of the biggest misconceptions about music and how artists get paid. The majors have some leverage over the retailers, but they still are not at all happy with dealing with a distribution and payment system that looks like it came out of Tammany Hall. It is even worse for independent artists who can't hire teams of lawyers to harrass the distributors.

The reason indie labels are so happy with Apple is that they actually have accounting standards, pay on-time, and are not in the payola game that retailers are wading neck-deep in. When you buy a song through iTunes, you can be sure your artist is actually getting paid. So for those not inclined to steal music (hehheh), iTunes is a pretty good way to go as far as supporting artists you actually like who are not on a major label.

Cordially,
B.G.

[dernhelm]

Well it validates my music purchasing habits. Haven't purchased a CD for myself in quite some time...

[EricNau]

yay Apple!

[iEric]

That's great.

And just watch to see iTunes drop if multi-leveled pricing occurs.
DROP DROP DROP.

I for one would love to see that so music company execs that pushed for multi-leveled pricing can shove it up their...

[fahlman]

This is a MacRumor how???
Go back to the home page. What does it say next to the Apple with a Question mark logo? I'll save you the time (you're probably busy still trying to tie your own shoes). It says "MacRumors.com news and rumors you care about". This is news. I'd call you an idiot but it's against the posting guidelines so I won't do it.

[EricNau]

Go back to the home page. What does it say next to the Apple with a Question mark logo? I'll save you the time (you're probably busy still trying to tie your own shoes). It says "MacRumors.com news and rumors you care about". This is news. I'd call you an idiot but it's against the posting guidelines so I won't do it.
Not to mention the picture of the NEWSpaper next to this story. If it was a rumor it would be a question mark.

[skunk]

It's good for Apple, but it's not so good for the customers who are being given a fairly poor bitrate (i.e. quality of merchandise). I wish they had an option to up the bitrate to 256 or 320, like allofmp3.com. It costs more, but it's a hell of a lot closer to CD quality, which itself is a poor second to analogue.

[Draelius]

Tower is in every major maket. Virgin is in the mega markets. Wal-Mart is everywhere. And by everywhere, I mean EVERYWHERE. If they are overtaken, it will be because the company no longer exists.

Don't the US have stores that sell just music (and DVDs)? Like over here we have HMV, Virgin, Music Zone and Tower? I see Tower in the list but no music only stores. I would never dream of buying music from ASDA, our Wallmart, there is simply not enough selection. Im confused!

[MhzDoesMatter]

Oh, and Kanye West is maybe a little retarded, anyone heard some of the things he's said?

Why don't you inform us?

[Goliath]

..... This is news. I'd call you an idiot but it's against the posting guidelines so I won't do it.


mmmm....kinda reminds me of people who say "I don't mean to complain BUT ......blah blah complaint, complaint blah blah blah!"

So exactly what part of "I'm not going to complain" did they fail to grasp??

Same goes for "I'd call you an idiot..." (You have!).... "but I won't..." (You did!)

anyway it's just something that irks me! I work in the reatil sector and if I hear one more person say "I don't mean to....but...." I will scream!!!!!

I wish people would stop pre-qualifying their statements with a 'but' at the end whether it's said or implied! It just doesn't make sense

[themacman]

its good for itunes that there doing so well. but lets say they expand beyond what they have now, what would that evan be.

[iMeowbot]

Walmart is cheapest arent they?... so if Apple inroduces variable pricing they will no longer be on the chart...
Most of the Wal-Mart sales are in their B&M stores. In the US market under discussion here, it helps to keep in mind that less than half of households have broadband yet. Not just the downloads, but also the authorization gets to be annoying when you are stuck with dialup (as I've been for the last week as the local telco churns through trouble tickets and keeps managing not to find what's wrong :D ). Add to that the buyers without up-to-date home computers (or any computers), and that's a heck of a lot of customers Apple aren't even attempting to reach. (And of course Wal-Mart do use variable pricing on CDs while retaining that top sales spot.)

[ThomasJefferson]

Now if they would just get the Beatles to cooperate.

[bretm]

My extact thoughts.

Your exact thoughts are weak. It is Apple news you care about. What's the name of this website? "Macrumors - NEWS (note listed before rumors) and Rumors you care about."

[bretm]

Good headway. Up from #14 to #7

I've bought my latest albums all from iTunes. Very convenient ( and cheaper too).

And of much lesser quality and missing all sorts of neat stuff like artwork, lyrics, etc. But yeah, I pretty much agree.

But it comes back to Apple threatening to raise prices. I mean, if you're going to nearly charge near physical CD prices for something that wasn't burned, packaged, printed, shipped AND is immensely lesser quality, then they're nuts.

[winmacguy]

I prefer to spell it with a U also, but this is an american website and the audience is primarily americans, so I follow their convention.
That tends to depend on the topic of discussion ;)

[winmacguy]

The reason indie labels are so happy with Apple is that they actually have accounting standards, pay on-time, and are not in the payola game that retailers are wading neck-deep in. When you buy a song through iTunes, you can be sure your artist is actually getting paid. So for those not inclined to steal music (hehheh), iTunes is a pretty good way to go as far as supporting artists you actually like who are not on a major label.

Cordially,
B.G.
Interesting. Thanks for the insight. On the down side of that from what I have heard regarding indie artists and iTunes is that you shouldn't expect to see your music or start getting paid for it in any short time frame after you have uploaded it and gone through the necessary chanels etc, apparently Apple are understaffed and overworked with a very large back log of tracks to review and load into the system. I would say however that it would appear to be a better way of doing business for musos than via any record company although that could be up for debate:p

[hookahco]

amazing.. is this based on album sales or individual songs?

[lolex]

It will be an Apple big enough to feed every hungry for online tunes :p

[EricNau]

amazing.. is this based on album sales or individual songs?

kinda both;
"NPD used 12 tracks per album in order to compare sales between physical CDs and individual tracks."

Since you cannot buy individual songs at a "real store," they took the number of albums Walmart (for example) sold, and multiplied it by 12. (12 being the average number of songs in an album) Then compared that number with the number of songs iTMS sold.

[buddhagoth]

Interesting. Thanks for the insight. On the down side of that from what I have heard regarding indie artists and iTunes is that you shouldn't expect to see your music or start getting paid for it in any short time frame after you have uploaded it and gone through the necessary chanels etc, apparently Apple are understaffed and overworked with a very large back log of tracks to review and load into the system. I would say however that it would appear to be a better way of doing business for musos than via any record company although that could be up for debate:p

You are welcome. From my perspective, there is always a downside to the "gold rush" times in any business. Apple has been clear from the get-go to allow at least 2-3 weeks from upload to appearance in the store. But the day it's there, if you get a sale, it will show up the next month. No lag in that sense. Yeah, they are a bit behind but that is good in the long run. Any serious alternative to regular retail is most welcome by indies.

The indies and the bands then have to do their old job of letting people know that their music is available there for downloading.

But as far as a way to do business, Mr. Jobs himself was very clear about this at the very first indie label meeting in 2003. Apple's iTunes was to be "all about the music" and he specifically said Apple did not want to be a record label or act like one. Labels (and I speak about indies here) are there to help artists with all sorts of things like careers, post-production, tours, image, all that sort of stuff. Apple wants them to the gatekeepers for the store. As you point out, the iTunes folks have enough to do and are overworked without having to hire a couple more thousand people to take on more parts of the music life. :)

However, to all that have spoken about quality, yes, I'd love to see higher-quality files available. Most consumers don't notice much difference, but as someone pointed out, the Big Dirty Secret is not widely known, that being a vinyl LP sounds 10 times better than a CD and 100 times better than current iTunes formats.

But as a way into the 21st century and as a way to break the control of mega-major labels, I'm all for iTunes. :D

Cordially,
B.G.

[amateurmacfreak]

Walmart is cheapest arent they?... so if Apple inroduces variable pricing they will no longer be on the chart...

Just my 2 cents.

yeah, and wal-mart is the most awful, greedy corporation so...that sucks.... it would be so cool if itunes could move up a bit... and wal-mart down, haha. i wonder where limewire would be if you compared the number of stuff people get from the other sources to it... it would probably be right on up there.
if itunes does variable pricing, people that are computer people will probably turn to limewire, and just more of the general public will switch to best buy, wal-mart...
it would overall hurt the record companies and itunes i think.

[Poff]

This is a MacRumor how???

set your browser to applerumors.com and there's nothing to complain about.