Aperture Now Shipping

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Apple quietly updated their Aperture (http://www.apple.com/aperture/) page on their website to reflect that it is now shipping.

Several user reports have indicated shipping notices, as well as (ThinkSecret (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/apertureshipping.html) posting a story reflecting the same.

Apple introduced Aperture (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2005/10/20051019144159.shtml) as a pro-level RAW support photo cataloging app on October 19, 2005.

[Lacero]

Great!

http://www.apple.com/aperture/specs.html

May want to check out the specs before ordering. Even my PowerMac G5 doesn't look like it's ready to run Aperture until I upgrade the video card to at least 512MB RAM.

[longaker]

Bring it too me apple, Bring it too me... My canon 20D is waiting

[PlaceofDis]

took just over a month only to start shipping!
haha, not surprised, at least people will get it before xmas.

[EricNau]

It's about time...

[sethypoo]

I want it! Such a nice interface, but so, so expensive.

[Xenious]

Is it more of a photo processing app than a photo editing app? (ie NOT a photoshop replacement?)

[Lacero]

Neither. It's mainly a photo management and versioning app for RAW files. Speed is its main selling point.

[EricNau]

Speed is its main selling point.
And it took them how long to get it shipping? :D

[Dr. Dastardly]

Can't wait to start reading some actual reviews and finally be able to play with it myself.

Hopefully its exactly what I have been asking for. More organization software with a dash of simple editing. :p

[irmongoose]

"We have no plans on when it will be available in Japan." WTF!?

:mad: :mad:




irmongoose

[mashinhead]

does this mean it is available in stores now

[simply258]

And it took them how long to get it shipping? :D
They would have announced it later on in the year but Photo Plus Expo 2005 was the most appropriate venue

[dornoforpyros]

cool...except I think my bastard roommate(whome wants to get into photography, yes he has talent)has already pulled the trigger on a dell...I thought 5 months of using my g5 with a 20" would have done it...but no:rolleyes:

[Staffroomer]

I think this app is somewhat out of my pricerange..

[bousozoku]

Every time I see something else, I really regret buying Extensis Portfolio. Aperture really puts the nails in my coffin.

[winmacguy]

cool...except I think my bastard roommate(whome wants to get into photography, yes he has talent)has already pulled the trigger on a dell...I thought 5 months of using my g5 with a 20" would have done it...but no:rolleyes:
Rumour has it Dells are cheaper than Macs, they are better for gaming and there are more apps that run on a PC than on a Mac.....;) :p

[redAPPLE]

what is my graphics card exactly? i cannot clearly see it in system profiler:

ATY,RV350:

Type: display
Bus: AGP
Slot: SLOT-1
VRAM (Total): 64 MB
Vendor: ATI (0x1002)
Device ID: 0x4150
Revision ID: 0x0000
ROM Revision: 113-A13601-126

Display:

Type: display
Display Type: LCD
VRAM (In Use): 64 MB
Resolution: 1920 x 1200
Depth: 32-bit Color
Main Display: Yes
Mirror: Off
Online: Yes

ATY,Simone_B:

that's all i see...

[irmongoose]

I think that is the ATI Radeon 9600 Pro.

You're covered. :D



irmongoose

[SiliconAddict]

Woot. Now all we need is a laptop that can run the thing! :p ;)

Seriously though here's to Aperture Express at MWSF! http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/images/smiles/beer.gif

[bousozoku]

I think that is the ATI Radeon 9600 Pro.

You're covered. :D



irmongoose

That's what it seems to be, since I have one, though mine is modified for a Quicksilver. Too bad my Quicksilver isn't covered but odd that my PowerBook is.

[simie]

Estimated Ship: 1 week Free Shipping

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore?productLearnMore=MA154Z/A

[drlunanerd]

Great!

http://www.apple.com/aperture/specs.html

May want to check out the specs before ordering. Even my PowerMac G5 doesn't look like it's ready to run Aperture until I upgrade the video card to at least 512MB RAM.

Unless you've got a Nvidia 5200 you'll be OK.
You don't need 512MB video RAM to run it - that would exclude everyone bar Quadro owners! Where did you get that idea?

[Lacero]

Unless you've got a Nvidia 5200 you'll be OK.

I have the 5200. :(

I figure I'll be safe with 512MB of RAM to start.


Here's to the Crazy Ones http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=35452 (http://www.uriah.com/apple-qt/movies/think-different.mov)

[drlunanerd]

I have the 5200. http://www3.telus.net/poojja/s/weep.gif

I figure I'll be safe with 512MB of RAM to start.


Here's to the Crazy Ones http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=35452 (http://www.uriah.com/apple-qt/movies/think-different.mov)

So, so sorry! ;)

I don't understand why the 5200 shouldn't work, as it's Core Image supported. You might find a hack becomes available - like there was for FCP 4 and PCI graphics cards.

Hang in there.

[ipacmm]

Thats good that it is shipping. I really want to check it out.

[evoluzione]

i'm really curious as to whether this will work on my G4...it's a dual 1.25Ghz, with the GeForce 4 Titanium Gfx card (the best one at the time). the machine is only just over a year old (I had to buy a machine capable of booting OS9, and bought it just before they stopped selling them last year!)

personally i think the price is decent, i'd fork out $500 for it, it's just the machine specs that are stopping me, there's no way i can afford a G5, i could buy a car for the money!

[drlunanerd]

i'm really curious as to whether this will work on my G4...it's a dual 1.25Ghz, with the GeForce 4 Titanium Gfx card (the best one at the time). the machine is only just over a year old (I had to buy a machine capable of booting OS9, and bought it just before they stopped selling them last year!)

personally i think the price is decent, i'd fork out $500 for it, it's just the machine specs that are stopping me, there's no way i can afford a G5, i could buy a car for the money!

You're SOL, possible unsupported hacks notwithstanding.
But don't take my word for it:
http://www.apple.com/aperture/binary/Aperture_Checker.dmg

[HiRez]

Neither. It's mainly a photo management and versioning app for RAW files. Speed is its main selling point.Speed, and non-destructive editing history using the Core Image stack, and the potentially huge storage savings that come with that.

[VicMacs]

so the 12 inch powerbook is being left out?

[mstecker]

OWC has an inexpensive Radeon 9600 Pro (G5 only), DVI and ADC, for $79. This meets Aperture's requirements. Not a huge spec leap over the 5200, but it is supported, and passes the "Aperture Checker"

https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/add/7290/APL630ATI9600/

[iGary]

Mine has a ship date of December 6. :rolleyes:

I'm going to see how my Radeon 9600 (256MB) does, and if it slows things down, I'll prolly get the x800 xt.

[kwajo.com]

well I'm glad it is shipping, I really want this app, though I haven't ordered yet, i need to find the money in my budget to afford it, maybe i'll have to sell some more photos at christmas to get there

[Photorun]

"We have no plans on when it will be available in Japan." WTF!?:mad: :mad: irmongoose

I'm pretty sure they mean a localized version, NOT that you won't be able to buy it somehow, just it wont be in Japanese... which it seems like you know English so no worries. Apple is going to localize this because Japanese love their cameras but, as a person who's been to Japan, they don't all know American, nor should they feel they need to, it's not like it's the default language of the world.

And dang are the specs heaving for this app considering all it does.

[JJTiger1]

i'm really curious as to whether this will work on my G4...it's a dual 1.25Ghz, with the GeForce 4 Titanium Gfx card (the best one at the time). the machine is only just over a year old (I had to buy a machine capable of booting OS9, and bought it just before they stopped selling them last year!)

personally i think the price is decent, i'd fork out $500 for it, it's just the machine specs that are stopping me, there's no way i can afford a G5, i could buy a car for the money!

Recommended System
Dual 2GHz Power Mac G5 or faster
Mac OS X version 10.4.3 “Tiger” or later
2GB of RAM
One of the following graphics cards:
ATI Radeon X800 XT Mac Edition
ATI Radeon 9800 XT or 9800 Pro
NVIDIA GeForce 6800 Ultra DDL or 6800 GT DDL
NVIDIA GeForce 6600 LE or 6600
NVIDIA GeForce 7800 GT
NVIDIA Quadro FX 4500
5GB of disk space for application, templates, and tutorial
DVD drive for installation

More info:
http://www.apple.com/aperture/specs.html
=-=-=
Aperture blasts my QuickSilver G4/733 into the weeds. I guess that I will stick to iLife '05 and hope for improvements when iLife '06 is released.

[tvguru]

Is there a list of supported RAW camera's like there is for iPhoto available?

[evoluzione]

You're SOL, possible unsupported hacks notwithstanding.
But don't take my word for it:
http://www.apple.com/aperture/binary/Aperture_Checker.dmg



ahh bollocks, cheers for that link, had no idea it existed.

[CaptainHaddock]

Well, the October Aperture press release appeared on the Japanese site here (http://www.apple.com/jp/news/2006/oct/20aperture.html), so I imagine, like Photorun, said, it's mainly a matter of finishing the localization, training DVD, and packaging. Heck, the software localization might actually be finished already.

Since I live in Japan, I do wish I could walk down to the Apple store and give it a spin this week, but I guess I'll have to wait longer. :(

[~Shard~]

This may indeed be the first "Pro app" I actually buy. I have never considered myself to a be a Pro user, but some of the features of Aperture are really attractive to me - heck, even just the high res photobooks would be nice to have! ;) I have never really used Photoshop, as I find it almost too powerful and as a result, not the most intuitive program, so this might be a nice tool to have, since iPhoto doesn't quite do everything I need either.

I'll have to read some of the initial reviews and make my decision based on those. And who knows, perhaps I will be treating myself to Aperture for Christmas! :)

[Clix Pix]

My copy of Aperture is scheduled to ship on or before December 1st. I am really hoping that it will do what I'm expecting and will do what I need as far as photo managment/cataloging, etc. I've held off on getting other programs such as iView Media Pro or Photo Mechanic in anticipation of Aperture....

I'll be using it on the iMac (rev B), but I realize that probably it is going to be somewhat slow and undoubtedly this will eventually nudge me into taking the next step and going with a PM.... Eek!

OTB

[opg4759]

I ordered my copy yesterday and I got a shipping notice today for it on a Sunday go figure.

Too bad I can't use it until my G5 shows up which doesn't ship until the 5th since my PB and mini just won't run it.:(

[pcmeissner]

Seriously though here's to Aperture Express at MWSF!
Here's to FREE iPhoto 6 with non-destructive filters powered by core image on my brand new iBook (intel inside) at MWSF. http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/images/smiles/beer.gif

[~Shard~]

Here's to FREE iPhoto 6 with non-destructive filters powered by core image on my brand new iBook (intel inside) at MWSF. http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/images/smiles/beer.gif

Yes, good point - I'm going to hold off purchasing Aperture until I know exactly what will be included in the new (and free) iPhoto - it might suit my needs and save me a few hundred dollars! :cool:

[iGary]

I ordered mine the day it was announced and the shipping date is December 6.

Blah.

Can't wait to use it, though. Have a 2-foot stack of CD's just begging to be post-processed and catalogued.

[Clix Pix]

I ordered mine the day it was announced and the shipping date is December 6.

Blah.

Gosh, that doesn't seem right, does it? I'd think that someone who had ordered it the very day it was announced would be one of the first to get it, rather than someone who had ordered it later.... T'ain't fair, is it?

It will be interesting to see if once Aperture is out there and photographers are using it there will be a sudden surge in new Mac purchases.... I've already seen some comments on the DPreview forums from slightly envious PC users. Wonder if the advent of Aperture will nudge some current Windows folks into exploring the world of Mac?

OTB

[ender78]

Is there a list of supported RAW camera's like there is for iPhoto available?

We discovered on DPREVIEW.COM that the RAW support is in the OS and NOT in the App. In any case there listed on the righ on this page http://www.apple.com/aperture/raw/

Interesting note is that the new Nikon D200 is not yet supported. That is likely to change soon.

[puckhead193]

Woot. Now all we need is a laptop that can run the thing! :p ;)

Seriously though here's to Aperture Express at MWSF! http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/images/smiles/beer.gif
i hope cause i want the high resolution photo books.....

[Westside guy]

The specs are kinda funny - my 1.25GHz Al Powerbook just makes it (and the helpful "Aperature Checker" someone posted also says I can install it). But the minimum desktop specs are so much higher, so it makes me wonder.

I would really like to use this app, but I'm worried about just how laggy it'd be on this machine...

Also, does anyone know if it's a fat/universal binary?

[steve_hill4]

Apple is going to localize this because Japanese love their cameras but, as a person who's been to Japan, they don't all know American, nor should they feel they need to, it's not like it's the default language of the world.
Right, so as a resident of the UK, do you happen to know whether this will get localised to English, or are they just releasing it in American?

Odd move for apple though, as all their other apps are in English.

[steve_hill4]

so the 12 inch powerbook is being left out?
Well, I can't fully understand this either. The only thoughts I had would have been graphics card or resolution related, but that surely can't be right.

If anyone wants to try and get this running on a 12" PB or other "incompatible" systems, I would be interested in the outcome.

[icloud]

so if you have an "incompatible" Mac, will it simply NOT install or will it simply not be optimized for the system but still allow install

[Chobit]

Right, so as a resident of the UK, do you happen to know whether this will get localised to English, or are they just releasing it in American?

Odd move for apple though, as all their other apps are in English.

Interesting, because I've used Colorsync, but never Coloursync. I'm pretty sure Apple being an American company tends to use American. :p


American |??merik?n| adjective of, relating to, or characteristic of the United States or its inhabitants : the election of a new American president. • relating to or denoting the continents of America : the American continent south of the tropic of Cancer. noun 1 a native or citizen of the United States. • [usu. with adj. ] a native or inhabitant of any of the countries of North, South, or Central America. 2 the English language as it is used in the United States; American English.

[Epicurus]

The specs are kinda funny - my 1.25GHz Al Powerbook just makes it (and the helpful "Aperature Checker" someone posted also says I can install it). But the minimum desktop specs are so much higher, so it makes me wonder.

I would really like to use this app, but I'm worried about just how laggy it'd be on this machine...

Also, does anyone know if it's a fat/universal binary?


My PowerBook checks out, but I'm still wary of the specs. Does anyone know if Aperture is available to try out in the Apple Stores yet? I really want to see how it performs on the new PowerBooks before I drop the cash to get it for myself. If there are any issues with the 1.67 GHz PowerBooks then my 1.25GHz might not be up to the challenge. In that case I'll probably wait for iPhoto '06 to see what it offers. I've got time enough to wait for the Intel 'Books, hopefully by then the hardware in the portables will be strong enough to support Aperture.

[themacman]

Is it more of a photo processing app than a photo editing app? (ie NOT a photoshop replacement?)
whats the differnce

[ScubaDuc]

This may indeed be the first "Pro app" I actually buy. I have never considered myself to a be a Pro user, but some of the features of Aperture are really attractive to me - heck, even just the high res photobooks would be nice to have! ;) I have never really used Photoshop, as I find it almost too powerful and as a result, not the most intuitive program, so this might be a nice tool to have, since iPhoto doesn't quite do everything I need either.

I'll have to read some of the initial reviews and make my decision based on those. And who knows, perhaps I will be treating myself to Aperture for Christmas! :)

I use a program called i-View. I have over 9000 pics in it, works great, and only costs 100 bucks. It lets me do most of the touch ups, including removing pixel noise, so I seldomly use photoshop now...

Really a nifty piece of software...Check it out before dishing out for Aperture

[SiliconAddict]

My PowerBook checks out, but I'm still wary of the specs. Does anyone know if Aperture is available to try out in the Apple Stores yet?


$10 says Apple won't install these on anything of their mobile systems. Or if they do its only going to have a couple pictures in the app.

[mainemike]

It's mainly a photo management and versioning app for RAW files. Speed is its main selling point.

Isn't Lacero a cutie pie? Smart, too. Which leads me to why I think Aperture will be a hit with pro photographers: it's the total package!

I have to say, while I agree with Lacero, I think that speed isn't really what enticed me to preorder Aperture.

The main selling point for me is the workflow management and catalog capabilities under one roof, so to speak. I have different software which more or less accomplishes all of the things I need after a large shoot, but nothing in one complete package that (it seems) can do it so elegantly.

The speed with which the software (apparently) can work with RAW files is an important selling point though, and I'm sure I will appreciate this after using Nikon Capture/Editor for so many years. It has improved but it is still clunky. I don't even like to work with RAW files in Photoshop CS2, for that matter.

Well, I'll know a bit more tomorrow after FedEx makes a stop at my house.

[steve_hill4]

Interesting, because I've used Colorsync, but never Coloursync. I'm pretty sure Apple being an American company tends to use American. :p


American |??merik?n| adjective of, relating to, or characteristic of the United States or its inhabitants : the election of a new American president. • relating to or denoting the continents of America : the American continent south of the tropic of Cancer. noun 1 a native or citizen of the United States. • [usu. with adj. ] a native or inhabitant of any of the countries of North, South, or Central America. 2 the English language as it is used in the United States; American English.
Yes, but that's American English, not American. It is a subset of the English language. Check what it says when you install a Mac or change language settings, it says English or English (country), so Mac OS and all other apple apps officially operate in English, whatever subset they use.

[MikeRich]

The specs are kinda funny - my 1.25GHz Al Powerbook just makes it (and the helpful "Aperature Checker" someone posted also says I can install it). But the minimum desktop specs are so much higher, so it makes me wonder.


I just ran the checking program - my 2 and a bit year old Al Powerbook can run Aperture but my less than 6 months old iMac can't.

:mad:

I was looking forward to it as well :(

[HiRez]

Is it more of a photo processing app than a photo editing app? (ie NOT a photoshop replacement?)whats the differncePhoto processing you might read as being able to organize your pictures, then filter them, by this I mean more global changes like color correction, contrast adjustments, sharpening, etc. ... things you might do in a traditional darkroom. Photo editing is what Photoshop does where you are working with multiple layers and you can make more radical, localized changes using masking tools, etc. Where you would do things like replace a sky in one picture for another sky in another picture, or remove a person or telephone wires from a shot. Aperture does not really do this sort of thing (although it does have a rubber stamp sort of tool), at least that's not an emphasis for it.

[Xenious]

Neither. It's mainly a photo management and versioning app for RAW files. Speed is its main selling point.

And thats a big deal to people? I'd be more excited about an Apple "photoshop".

[SiliconAddict]

And thats a big deal to people? I'd be more excited about an Apple "photoshop".

HAHAHA. *coughs* Ummm no...It will never happen. An Apple product that tries to take on Photoshop will prob make Adobe pull the product and kill the Mac for graphic designers in the future. Apple is going to tread a fine line just as they do with MS Office. Both apps are critical for Apple.

[steve_hill4]

HAHAHA. *coughs* Ummm no...It will never happen. An Apple product that tries to take on Photoshop will prob make Adobe pull the product and kill the Mac for graphic designers in the future. Apple is going to tread a fine line just as they do with MS Office. Both apps are critical for Apple.
I think office will become less critical for apple in the future, but agree with the general point. Adobe were supporting Apple years before they supported Windows too, so to kill off a relationship like that over an app like Aperture, (if we assume it eventually became bigger and included most of Photoshop's features too), would be a mistake. What Apple need to continue to do is look for those gaps in both the hardware and software markets and sieze them. They were one of the first to add HD features to their video editing software with Final Cut, produced the biggest mass market mp3 player, added their full support to wi-fi from its early days and have time and time again reinvented the desktop computer. Remember, with something like Photoshop, users want familiarity and consistantcy, if Apple bring out a rival for it, more people are likely to stick with Photoshop than Apple and if Adobe decided to switch to Windows only, it would be a major blow.

Apple aren't stupid after all. If they wanted to kill off Photoshop, they would have almost certainly released Aperture as such an app. Since they haven't, it looks unlikely, (not that it ever was in the first place).

[MikeGA]

I am seriously interested to see whether this ships as a Universal Binary.

[ThomasJefferson]

Looks like a great app for the high volume shooter. I ahve my own wierd method of keeping track of my pics, its called slides. Love my Velvia.

[kcmac]

I use a program called i-View. I have over 9000 pics in it, works great, and only costs 100 bucks. It lets me do most of the touch ups, including removing pixel noise, so I seldomly use photoshop now...

Really a nifty piece of software...Check it out before dishing out for Aperture
iView Media Pro - $199. Glad you like it but Aperture and iView aren't really quite the same.

[icloud]

So Will There be a Prompt Stopping anyone from installing it who doesnt meet system requirements?!

[CalfCanuck]

Looks like a great app for the high volume shooter. I ahve my own wierd method of keeping track of my pics, its called slides. Love my Velvia.
Once you try a nice RAW image workflow, your Velvia one will start to fade!

Since I began the switch to digital in 2000, my EOS-1n's almost always sit on the shelf. And I never even finished off my last bulk purchase of Velvia - probably have a dozen rolls still in the fridge that have long passed their expiration date. THAT never used to happen when I was shooting film, as I could never buy it fast enough.

[Chobit]

Yes, but that's American English, not American. It is a subset of the English language. Check what it says when you install a Mac or change language settings, it says English or English (country), so Mac OS and all other apple apps officially operate in English, whatever subset they use.

Sorry, that remark was supposed to be tongue in cheek. Anyways, "American" is synonymous with "American English" So the OPs comment about the software being in American is basically correct. Some people dislike the distinction, but to each her own.

[Clix Pix]

And thats a big deal to people? I'd be more excited about an Apple "photoshop".

Yeah, it's a big deal to those who have many images to process and catalog, especially in RAW.... And no, Apple does NOT need to reinvent the wheel (ie, Photoshop) because there is already a very satisfactory Photoshop. PS does what it does very well. What many of us are hoping is that Aperture will indeed complement PS and integrate some processes so that photographers don't need to have three or four different software programs in order to achieve their goals. A smoother, more integrated workflow will save many photographers a chunk of time and then we can be out there shooting more photos.

OTB

[Clix Pix]

My PowerBook checks out, but I'm still wary of the specs.

I hear you on this one. I am planning to use Aperture in my iMac (Rev B, 2 GB RAM) but am leery of sticking it into my PB (Rev E, 2 GB RAM, 7200 rpm) even though it theoretically could run the program. I'm figuring that I'll be continuing to use the iMac for image processing/cataloging anyway, just stuck PSCS2 on the PB in case I want to do a quick-and-dirty image edit on the road, but really am not intending to be doing much in the way of heavy-duty digital imaging on it, so why burden the PB with Aperture, especially if that program would be balky and slow on it?

I have the strong suspicion that I won't be too thrilled with Aperture's performance and speed (or likely, lack thereof) on the iMac, so am fully prepared for the budgetary hit resulting from the eventual arrival of yet another Mac (this time a PM) in my home....

Really looking forward to the first real-use reports from those who get Aperture up and running in their machines in the next few days!

OTB

[mcarnes]

Looks like a great app for the high volume shooter. I ahve my own wierd method of keeping track of my pics, its called slides. Love my Velvia.

Ah, Velvia. Fond, fond memories. I shot tens of thousands of slides on that stuff, 35mm and 645. I miss that light box and loupe. Hope Aperture will bring the feeling back.

[bousozoku]

HAHAHA. *coughs* Ummm no...It will never happen. An Apple product that tries to take on Photoshop will prob make Adobe pull the product and kill the Mac for graphic designers in the future. Apple is going to tread a fine line just as they do with MS Office. Both apps are critical for Apple.

It's more likely to kill Portfolio and Cumulus and iView Pro since they're cataloguing applications and for $300 more, you get quite a bit more, as long as u've the machine to run it.

It's also likely to pull a lot of photographers currently using Windows to Mac OS X.

[Lacero]

It's also likely to pull a lot of photographers currently using Windows to Mac OS X.
I'm hearing this from a lot of photographers, first hand. Mac OSX and Apple is a very serious consideration for them as a result of Aperture.


Here's to the Crazy Ones http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=35452 (http://www.uriah.com/apple-qt/movies/think-different.mov)

[Clix Pix]

I'm hearing this from a lot of photographers, first hand. Mac OSX and Apple is a very serious consideration for them as a result of Aperture.

Yup, this is what I'm hearing and reading (on photography forums) too....

OTB

[BlueRevolution]

So Will There be a Prompt Stopping anyone from installing it who doesnt meet system requirements?!

probably. but somebody will find a way around it, they always do. you might have to wait a while though. I can't remember if FCP had one of those annoying prompts... though I guess my computer almost meets the minimum requirements so I wouldn't have seen it.

makes you wonder.

[Lacero]

And thats a big deal to people? I'd be more excited about an Apple "photoshop".
You've been reading all the information; makes it worth spending $500?

Here is a short list.

1. 100% raw workflow beginning to end -no other product offers this.
2. Image stacking for group editing and comparisons
3. Full featured free-form light table
4. Album designer (like iPhoto, but on steroids)
5. Versioning
6. Compares
7. Loupe tool
8. Fast, and easy to use Apple UI.
9. Good enough for client consults.

Here's to the Crazy Ones http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=35452 (http://www.uriah.com/apple-qt/movies/think-different.mov)

[ScubaDuc]

iView Media Pro - $199. Glad you like it but Aperture and iView aren't really quite the same.

Uhh, yah, I got the upgrade price...but it is a great program; much better then i-Photo for organizing/managing pics, creating albums, etc.. I agree that IView and Aperture aren't the same thing but it seemed to me that in many posts readers were looking for a better alternative to i-Photo/photoshop and perhaps iView is more suited to their needs then Aperture: just my 2 (euro)cents....

[phonic pol]

Any ideas when it'll ship in the UK? It's presently showing as 'now shipping' on the US site only.

[Jo-Kun]

Aperture does the same as PhaseOne CaptureOne Pro... for exactly the same price... only difference: Aperture means new Videocard in my G5 -> thus more expensive... but I don't really like to work with CaptureOne... so I'm curious about Aperture (using the Photoshop raw conversion now, its better than Nikon Capture...) & I'm waiting for my OK to get the Canon 1DsMKII & probably picking up a copy of aperture then...

we'll see ;)

[CaptainHaddock]

Aperture does the same as PhaseOne CaptureOne Pro...

Really. :) So CaptureOne's unpublicized features include adjustment and manipulation effects applied to RAW data in real-time with unlimited versioning (without using disk space)? And how about copying and applying those effects to other photos? Or a loupe that shows you any part of any photo on your lightbox at full-pixel resolution? Or advanced book and contact-sheet layout?

I don't think Aperture is like any software previously published. Not if it lives up to half its advertised coolness.

[Jo-Kun]

Really. :) So CaptureOne's unpublicized features include adjustment and manipulation effects applied to RAW data in real-time with unlimited versioning (without using disk space)? And how about copying and applying those effects to other photos? Or a loupe that shows you any part of any photo on your lightbox at full-pixel resolution? Or advanced book and contact-sheet layout?

I don't think Aperture is like any software previously published. Not if it lives up to half its advertised coolness.


Capture one doesn't do it real time... because off course that's the new feature in aperture... thus need for a bigger computer & graphics card...

copying and applying effects to other photo's is perfectly possible with the RAW plugin in Photoshop ;)

I'm very curious about aperture... that's no secret ;) but allso sceptic :p that's why... I will go to the Aperture Seminar in Brussels on 13dec... to see it with my own eyeys (and hopeing it won't just be a demo on a big screen but there well be the possibility to use it yourself... (I'll squeeze some images on a disk and ask if I can work with those ;))

[Doozy]

I can't wait to try out this application. But I'll have to wait until January.

[manu chao]

Have a 2-foot stack of CD's just begging to be post-processed and catalogued.

Hope you have 80 GB of free disk space for all those photos.:D

[adamfilip]

you talk as if 80gb is alot anymore

[AC_99]

Woot. Now all we need is a laptop that can run the thing! :p ;)

Seriously though here's to Aperture Express at MWSF! http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/images/smiles/beer.gif

Aperture Express = iPhoto

[Harry322]

I don't have any RAWS, but I do have a couple thousand JPGs in iPhoto. Can Aperture help me with those - like a better iPhoto? Or is it only for RAWs?

[DamonNoisette]

...actually my wife has it, since she's the pro photographer with the flexible schedule. Our local Apple store biz rep called over and let us know they had it in stock. This call came just 18 hours after the same rep told us he wasn't expecting it in the store until early December!

Definitely a nice surprise for sure!

I'll post some info once I get a chance to play with it this evening.

The box looks nice.

Damon

[manu chao]

you talk as if 80gb is alot anymore
On a notebook it is if you do not like to lug around an external drive.

[kcmac]

...actually my wife has it, since she's the pro photographer with the flexible schedule. Our local Apple store biz rep called over and let us know they had it in stock. This call came just 18 hours after the same rep told us he wasn't expecting it in the store until early December!

Definitely a nice surprise for sure!

I'll post some info once I get a chance to play with it this evening.

The box looks nice.

Damon
Be prepared for a lot of questions. You are going to get hammered! :)

Congrats.

[Josh]

I don't have any RAWS, but I do have a couple thousand JPGs in iPhoto. Can Aperture help me with those - like a better iPhoto? Or is it only for RAWs?
Because Aperture can export a RAW file to Photoshop, where you can manipulate it further, then save the image back in to Aperture, I assume it supports JPEG 100%.

Each 'version' of a RAW file in Aperture is not another file, just simply instructions on how the version is produced from the original. Since Aperture does not contain "instructions" to apply all the effects and manipulations you can do in PS, it must save that version as a totally new file, which I am willing to guess is a JPEG.

There's no way PS is going to edit a file and then sent it back to Aperture as an editted/manupulated RAW file.

Better yet: straight from Apple.com
File Formats

* Native RAW import and editing from leading dSLR cameras
o CRW, NEF, TIF, CR2, OLY, DNG
* Compatible with all major still image formats
o JPEG, GIF, TIFF, PNG, PDF, PSD(1)


So yes - you can use Aperture as a super-duper iPhoto replacement. :D

[artifex]

you talk as if 80gb is alot anymore

That's still almost 20 SL DVDs or almost 10 DL. So for removable shiny discs, yes. Never mind that a national store is selling $90 SATA 300GB drives with no rebate right now :)

[kcmac]

That's still almost 20 SL DVDs or almost 10 DL. So for removable shiny discs, yes. Never mind that a national store is selling $90 SATA 300GB drives with no rebate right now :)
How about a name? That is a great price.

[CalfCanuck]

How about a name? That is a great price.
Don't know which they were referring to , but here's a general link for storage:

http://dealmac.com/categories/Computer/Storage/51.html

There's a 300 GB for $90 down the list ...

[bousozoku]

On a notebook it is if you do not like to lug around an external drive.

That's why there are full-sized iPods. :) My 60 GB PowerBook drive is overwhelmed but my 40 GB iPod drive is quite helpful.

[CalfCanuck]

I don't have any RAWS, but I do have a couple thousand JPGs in iPhoto. Can Aperture help me with those - like a better iPhoto? Or is it only for RAWs?
While Aperture can easily handle JPEG with RAW, I'm not sure if you are a great match for the program. It doesn't seem like you shoot that much, and there are many other cheaper options for your limited numbers of images.

This is designed as a Pro application - my typical work is extended field shooting with 2 bodies, generating about 600 images a day. If I'm gone for a couple of weeks, that might add up to 10,000 images. Multiple trips per year, over years, and it all becomes an organizational nightmare. Hence Aperture's emphasis on workflow.

One of the "free" things almost every photographer can do is to focus on improving their current cataloging in simple ways. For example, create a standardized naming system - this is the first thing I do when images come into my computer. My numbering is D2005_00001, and I add an R if it is originally a RAW file attached. I use "A Better Finder Rename", which is an awesome piece of software. I used to use my own Applescript, but this is loads faster, much more powerful, and only costs about $20.

Hence just by looking at the file, I know it's digital (allow me to catalog my scanned, older, non-didgital images as well), the year it was taken and the images around it. I have a simple Excel spreadsheet that I can reference with the date, location, and other info. A lot of this is saved in the file itself, but I like being able to scan every shoot I've ever done in one file, so I can go directly and look up multiple shoots from many different years.

[CalfCanuck]

On a notebook it is if you do not like to lug around an external drive.
Besides the iPod, you can get great portable HD's that only weigh under a lb. / 400g.

60 GB starts at $160...
http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/firewire/on-the-go/

[phonic pol]

While Aperture can easily handle JPEG with RAW, I'm not sure if you are a great match for the program. It doesn't seem like you shoot that much, and there are many other cheaper options for your limited numbers of images.

Aperture isn't exclusive! You don't have to class yourself as a pro to justify the purchase and earn the right to use this app! It's a faily cheap peice of software in my view and if someone wants an upgrade from iphoto with an ambition to bettering their photography experience then surely, they are a great match for this program... Regardless of whether you shoot, raw, tiff, jpeg on DSLR, SLR or P&S you'll love this program. Forget spreadsheets, databases and complex indexing systems, Aperture is going to free up our time so we can get on with spending quality time behind our lenses...

It's a no brainer that aperture will bolster the mac as the photographers choice and in my opinion the more people on the aperture band wagon the better, regardless of their 'status'.

I took 2751 images yesterday covering a total of 29 dance performances and I'm eagerly awaiting my pre-order! Anyone take delivery in the UK yet?

[CalfCanuck]

Aperture isn't exclusive! You don't have to class yourself as a pro to justify the purchase and earn the right to use this app! It's a faily cheap peice of software in my view and if someone wants an upgrade from iphoto with an ambition to bettering their photography experience then surely, they are a great match for this program... Regardless of whether you shoot, raw, tiff, jpeg on DSLR, SLR or P&S you'll love this program. Forget spreadsheets, databases and complex indexing systems, Aperture is going to free up our time so we can get on with spending quality time behind our lenses...

It's a no brainer that aperture will bolster the mac as the photographers choice and in my opinion the more people on the aperture band wagon the better, regardless of their 'status'.

I took 2751 images yesterday covering a total of 29 dance performances and I'm eagerly awaiting my pre-order! Anyone take delivery in the UK yet?
I'm sorry if my post was misunderstood - I'm not saying it is exclusive, but was rather pointing out that not everyone who has some unorganized pictures needs to spend the $500 to create order out of their chaos.

While I would also agree that it appears to be a good price for what it does (I spent $4000 for a network version of Cumulus, so you won't hear me complaining!), there have been as lot of posts around here that seem to argue that $500 is too much money. You, and I , firmly disagree, but my post was meant for those who do feel this way.

[mainemike]

I'm sorry if my post was misunderstood - I'm not saying it is exclusive, but was rather pointing out that not everyone who has some unorganized pictures needs to spend the $500 to create order out of their chaos.

I agree. Many can buy Aperture, but not everyone will make the software "sing" and use it fully. There are quite a few alternatives, and for many, iPhoto is one of them.
And that's not to say anything derogatory about iPhoto. But I wouldn't recommend Aperture for your garden variety snapshooter. Clearly, this would be overkill!

I've been playing around with Aperture all day. Trying to get my sea legs, so to speak. So far, my VERY EARLY impressions are this:

1) Go through the DVD tutorials. The chapters are short and concise, even for those who are suffering from ADD.

2) RTFM. There is a decent "getting started" book enclosed with Aperture and you'll want to peruse it AFTER you've watched the general overview on DVD.

3) Loupe feature kicks major gluteus maximus. (I have a couple of Schneider-Kreuznach loupes on my light table....expensive and neglected in this digital age....if I weren't so Old School I'd Ebay the suckers).

4) Web publishing....eh. I still have to examine the ins and outs here and the full potential. But I'm a bit nonplussed at first examination. Where are the templates? Customization? Here's hoping that this is an area where the third party developers can jump in ala Spotlight, Widgets, etc.

5) For event photography, I think I'm gonna like it here. Aperture is much, much more than iPhoto on steroids. I also appreciate the iTunes-ian manner in which photo libraries and playlists.....err, "albums" are organized. If you know iPhoto and iTunes, you'll take like a duck to water, until.....

6) .....you realize that there is a learning curve as is the case for any well-considered software. But I don't feel overwhelmed. Kudos to Apple for keeping things (mostly) consistent and adaptive.

Conclusion? Aperture is to iPhoto what Final Cut Pro is to iMovie, more or less. I think.
You won't be removing Photoshop from your hard drive, nor will you need to forget how to edit basic HTML and CSS if you work "hands on" with your web galleries.
But I think $500 is about right. As a working photographer, I certainly do not feel as though I've been "had" with my investment in the program. I look forward to learning more about what this software can do for me, fully aware that this process will take time.

Well, I know what I'm doing for a spell.....if you are a working photographer or a supervisor of image collections or someone with too much money....good luck and have FUN!

[CaptainHaddock]

Thanks for the summary, Mainemike!

I'd really like to see more screenshots of the editing controls; but barring that, could you shed any more light on how well they work? I'm particularly interested in how easy it is to, say, boost the exposure or contrast in a photo's shadows or highlights. Photoshop's shadow/highlight adjustment tool is the primary reason I edit photos in it. iPhoto is inadequate, because you can only adjust the exposure and contrast of an entire image; you can't restrict it to just shadows or highlights.

[mainemike]

Thanks for the summary, Mainemike!

I'd really like to see more screenshots of the editing controls; but barring that, could you shed any more light on how well they work? I'm particularly interested in how easy it is to, say, boost the exposure or contrast in a photo's shadows or highlights. Photoshop's shadow/highlight adjustment tool is the primary reason I edit photos in it. iPhoto is inadequate, because you can only adjust the exposure and contrast of an entire image; you can't restrict it to just shadows or highlights.

Good morning, Cap'n!

I'm still working my way through the layouts, views, organization, etc.
But I did take a look at the adjustments HUD which pops up in a semi-transparent window whenever you need it.
You can easily adjust brightness, contrast, color temp, etc. - and it's quite fast (at least on my Mac).
Can apply the changes to one image, a group of images, or a whole batch of images. Pretty slick.

I've posted a screenshot of the Exposure tab of the HUD here (300k file):

http://homepage.mac.com/michaelalden/apertureHUD.jpg

[CaptainHaddock]

Good morning, Cap'n!

I'm still working my way through the layouts, views, organization, etc.
But I did take a look at the adjustments HUD which pops up in a semi-transparent window whenever you need it.
You can easily adjust brightness, contrast, color temp, etc. - and it's quite fast (at least on my Mac).
Can apply the changes to one image, a group of images, or a whole batch of images. Pretty slick.

I've posted a screenshot of the Exposure tab of the HUD here (300k file):

http://homepage.mac.com/michaelalden/apertureHUD.jpg

Thanks for the screenshot, the HUD looks nice. What do you get if you click that button on the right side of the Levels part of the HUD? (below the revert arrow)

[iGary]

For anyone interested, the Annapolis store has it in stock.

I then went to cancel my online order only to find out it had shipped. :rolleyes:

Prolly have it by the end of the week.

[CaptainHaddock]

I think I answered my own question, Mainemike; I took another look at the Aperture gallery on Apple's site. It looks like you can adjust three separate midpoints on the levels graph – just the feature I need. :) And there's a Highlights and Shadows adjustment box! Too bad Apple's gallery doesn't show that one expanded.

[mainemike]

I think I answered my own question, Mainemike; I took another look at the Aperture gallery on Apple's site. It looks like you can adjust three separate midpoints on the levels graph – just the feature I need. :) And there's a Highlights and Shadows adjustment box! Too bad Apple's gallery doesn't show that one expanded.

Yup - it divides the Levels box into quarters and you can adjust four separate levels of.....well, levels!

http://homepage.mac.com/michaelalden/apertureHUD2.jpg

[Josh]

Thanks for the screen caps, mike :)

You said Aperture runs nicely on your system - could you post your specs for comparisons?

Thanks again :D

[mainemike]

Thanks for the screen caps, mike :)

You said Aperture runs nicely on your system - could you post your specs for comparisons?
Thanks again :D

Sure Josh -
G5 2.7GHz Dual, 2GB RAM, and the graphics card is an ATI Radeon 9650.
23" monitor, 400GB hard drive, Bus Speed 1.35GHz.

According to Apple, this ATI card I have meets only the minimum requirements for Aperture and they recommend a better card. But I have no complaints - everything seems to be running quite smoothly. It does make me wonder what a higher end card would provide in terms of performance. Quicker redraw? I'm not sure.
It's a heck of a lot faster than what I've been using (Nikon Capture Editor, Nikon View). I'll have to process a RAW file in both Aperture and Capture and print 'em out to compare any differences but I suspect I will be looking to use Aperture solely for my RAW organizing/optimizing.

[Epicurus]

Has anyone checked to see if Aperture is a Universal Binary? If it isn't then rumors about a Januray release for Intel hardware might be a little optimistic (then again, if Apple is just pushing out an upgraded Mac mini that has no hope of running Aperture, this might not indicate anything at all). Still, It'd be nice to know.:D

[NoNameBrand]

I'll have to process a RAW file in both Aperture and Capture and print 'em out to compare any differences but I suspect I will be looking to use Aperture solely for my RAW organizing/optimizing.

Hi Mike, what do you mean by 'optimizing'? light post-production, but use Nikon Capture for RAW conversion?

I'm totally unimpressed by the speed and UI of Nikon's software, and Aperture is a lot cheaper than CS2 (Nikon D50 isn't supported by CS's ACR), as my copy of CS is not elligible for upgrade pricing (education version), so if Aperture's RAW conversion isn't particularly good, I probably won't buy. I would guess that it's like the difference between Nikon's software and ACR: it takes different fiddling to get a great image, but it's equally possible to get a great image with either- is this a fair assessment?

I don't have any opportunity to try this software out, but am quite intrigued by it, but even with my partner's education discount (she's into photography too, but it's my Mac, though I suppose I'll have to let her use her software on it if she buys it for me). it's pretty pricy to just buy based on Apple's great marketing.

Thank you for your thoughts!

[Tupring]

cool...except I think my bastard roommate(whome wants to get into photography, yes he has talent)has already pulled the trigger on a dell...I thought 5 months of using my g5 with a 20" would have done it...but no:rolleyes:Much better than pulling the trigger on the G5 don't you think :D

[Clix Pix]

I had checked my Apple online order status and it indicated that my Aperture order had not yet shipped....so was I ever surprised just now when the UPS guy knocked at the door and handed me a box. Since I was expecting another package this week, I assumed it was that -- and was thrilled when I opened the box and here was Aperture! Oooh!

Off to install it now...

OTB

[Tupring]

Rumour has it Dells are cheaper than Macs, they are better for gaming and there are more apps that run on a PC than on a Mac.....;) :p So what

[iGary]

I had checked my Apple online order status and it indicated that my Aperture order had not yet shipped....so was I ever surprised just now when the UPS guy knocked at the door and handed me a box. Since I was expecting another package this week, I assumed it was that -- and was thrilled when I opened the box and here was Aperture! Oooh!

Off to install it now...

OTB

Oh Christ. Now I can't wear my headphones for the next few days.

[iGary]

LMFAO!!!!

Not two minutes after OTB posted, the UPS truck shows up with my copy.

Me = Happy Camper.

Apple's shipping status system suxxors, though. :mad:

[Thomas S]

I got the disk in the mail today. I'm installing in a minute. I'll post tons of pics for you guys. Any requests?

As a nature photographer, I'm excited to NO end about what this means. I cannot wait!

View my website at http://www.tstoeckleinphoto.com (finishing it up now :D)

[iGary]

I just played around with it for a bit.

Importing from my second hard drive was slow. Don't get that.

Doing the recommended thing and watching the DVD now.

Tried the loupe - kick ass.

[Thomas S]

I've been watching the DVD for a 'lil now (three minutes :D) and I must say that this program is going to change a LOT of things. The only thing I can say right now is 'wow.' Just wow.

You know the DVD is high-definition when played on the computer, right? Cool, eh?

[iGary]

OK, the narrartor has got to go.

He's killing me here.

[Thomas S]

Without a doub. I just turned it off. I'm just messing around in the sample ones right now - I'm gonna import in a second :D

[Thomas S]

****.

When I ordered the damn thing I was in a rush and didn't notice that while it "supports" the Fuji S2, it doesn't support its RAW format. My bad, but still. Why the **** would Apple not support one of the most popular wedding DSLRs?

I'm pissed off to no end but I suppose I'm going to be purchasing that D200 very, very soon. :mad: The sad thing is that they don't support Adobe .DNG either so I can't just convert 'em. Great Job!

It still doesn't detract from the program though IMO. While they ****ed up by not supporting either format, its still an AWESOME program. I'll still post screenshots :D.

[njmac]

I got the disk in the mail today. I'm installing in a minute. I'll post tons of pics for you guys. Any requests?

As a nature photographer, I'm excited to NO end about what this means. I cannot wait!

(I'm also 15, so I purchased the academic - is there a difference between the two?). View my website at http://www.tstoeckleinphoto.com (finishing it up now :D)

Your website looks fantastic, very professional. I hope you'll be posting in the new photography subforum.:cool:

[Thomas S]

http://img459.imageshack.us/img459/6837/aperture1rl.th.jpg (http://img459.imageshack.us/my.php?image=aperture1rl.jpg) http://img358.imageshack.us/img358/2715/aperture29ho.th.jpg (http://img358.imageshack.us/my.php?image=aperture29ho.jpg) http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/5017/aperture37uv.th.jpg (http://img299.imageshack.us/my.php?image=aperture37uv.jpg) http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/8114/aperture44lt.th.jpg (http://img211.imageshack.us/my.php?image=aperture44lt.jpg)



I will be constantly updating this. Right now I'm just showing the example ones as my S2 is not supported, but I'm importing TIFFS as we speak...

Updated #1 - book process and web gallery

Words cannot describe the "wow" factor I'm having right now. I've shelled out $500, yes, but the result is totally worth it. While my Fuji S2 RAW files are not supported (totaly ******** by the way), I can still work with TIFF. Needless to say I'm in love with the program when I'm not even using its full capacity. Once I upgrade to a D200, I feel that I'll be blown away AGAIN. I've posted some more screenshots!

[Dr. Dastardly]

OK, the narrartor has got to go.

He's killing me here.
Is it the same Aussie guy they had on the Apple site or someone different?

[iGary]

Is it the same Aussie guy they had on the Apple site or someone different?

Yeah, the same guy from the Web site.

Well done DVD tutorial (Hi-Def DVD no less), but he is rather annoying.

Kind of like that white guy with the dredlocks form the Panther intro video.

[njmac]

http://img459.imageshack.us/img459/6837/aperture1rl.th.jpg (http://img459.imageshack.us/my.php?image=aperture1rl.jpg) http://img358.imageshack.us/img358/2715/aperture29ho.th.jpg (http://img358.imageshack.us/my.php?image=aperture29ho.jpg)



I will be constantly updating this. Right now I'm just showing the example ones as my S2 is not supported, but I'm importing TIFFS as we speak...

ahhh, ok. Your website looks great though. Did you design it yourself?

[jimf]

Neither. It's mainly a photo management and versioning app for RAW files. Speed is its main selling point.

Exactly what Aperture's selling point is will likely vary between photographers, but I for one am not especially interested in the "speed" aspect. (Not that I won't take it, but it's not the selling point.) It takes some serious hardware just to run Aperture; if you have serious hardware, Capture One is pretty responsive too.

What it provides is a collection of image correction, preview, and management capabilities that heretofore has required several packages, all expensive. Moreover those packages have not all been particularly well thought out from a UI standpoint.

My biggest need right now is for better software for viewing and selecting RAW files. It's easy to get 400+ images from a single shoot, many of which are slight variations on a theme. Capture One is a poor tool for comparing and selecting images. C1 also has a pretty lousy interface, one of the most nointuitive I have ever seen.

I am not sure I would have given Apple $500 for a simple C1 replacement but replacing C1 plus giving me excellent preview features (virtual light table and loupe are a GREAT idea) plus organizational capabilities that, right now, I manage with shell scripts... yea, no problem, take my money.

Heck, Aperture even incented me to buy a Quad.

jim frost
jimf@frostbytes.com

[Clix Pix]

LMFAO!!!!

Not two minutes after OTB posted, the UPS truck shows up with my copy.

Me = Happy Camper.

Apple's shipping status system suxxors, though. :mad:

Big grin here! Glad you got yours today, too! :D

OTB

[arn]

As an experiment...

I've opened up Aperture. If you have any tips/info on Aperture, add them to the guide page.

http://guides.macrumors.com/Aperture

Anyone can edit that page. no login required.

arn

[Clix Pix]

Installed my Aperture program, then settled down to watch the 90-minute DVD. Sheesh, if I'd realized it were THAT long...! I got kinda squirmy and a couple of times paused it to answer the phone and to do a couple of things, but I did watch it all the way through to the end.

That done, I got to work with the program itself. I decided it might be smart to start small, so I imported just one folder, one with about 100 jpeg images. That moved fairly quickly and all the processing that I did seemed to move pretty smoothly on my iMac (rev B, 2 GB RAM). I haven't installed Aperture yet on the PB, as I probably won't be doing much image manipulation/cataloging on that machine unless I take a long trip and am doing a lot of shooting/downloading, in which case then it would be good to have it in there.

Haven't tried anything with RAW yet, but I'm sure that the process will be significantly slower. In a few weeks I'll be using Nikon's new D200, and I know that those files, jpeg or RAW, are going to be huge and that processing time will be slowed down. The images today were from a 7.0 mp camera, my little Casio EXILIM Z750 P&S. Nonetheless, I was pleasantly surprised that there wasn't a lot of lagging with Aperture in the iMac, as I'd been concerned about that possibility. We'll see what happens when I start dealing with RAW and when I'm dealing with RAW from the D200!

For me, speed was not one of the first criteria in deciding to purchase Aperture. I am much more interested in being able to finally organize and catalog and locate my images easily, and to do a quick-and-dirty adjustment here-and-there when need be...and I like the idea that it is an Apple product that is designed to work seamlessly and smoothly with the OS in my Mac.

Anyway, today I fooled around with rating the images and assigning keywords, then spent a little time doing a crop and adjustment of exposure levels on one. Just for the heck of it I then went into PS CS2 and did a little more tinkering on the image and then went back to Aperture. This was more so that I could see how well that process would work than it was about perfecting the image. You can specify your external image editing program in the preferences pane, which I had done. That all works just fine. Afterward I reflected on how there were no problems, no glitches, no crashes, even though I was using two RAM-intensive programs more or less at the same time. Heh, try THAT on a Windoze machine!

I didn't play with stacking any groups of images,as this particular folder has mostly images which are fairly similar, but I sure appreciate being able to rate them and then view the browser in a format that sorts them out and groups them nicely: it's going to really help my workflow to have that kind of thing.

My immediate, visceral response so far to Aperture is: WOW!!!!! WOOT!!!! WOW!!!! Uh, yeah.... It's pretty cool. I'm so happy I have a Mac so that I can use this program! My timing was pretty right on the money, too, as I had just bought my iMac and was thinking about what kind of image cataloging program to buy when Aperture was announced. I promptly decided to hold off on any decisions and purchases, so didn't download any other programs but then couldn't resist, took the plunge and pre-ordered Aperture. I'm glad I did! I think Aperture will fit my needs very nicely.

I'm sure that many of the features and functions available on Aperture are available in other software, but I had just never gotten around to doing anything about purchasing something to catalog my images. When I first got my iMac I had already read about iPhoto and knew that it would probably be problematic and not terribly flexible in handling my images, so I just put everything into the "Pictures" folder instead so that I could retain the folder hierarchy and naming system I'd already established. I'll probably not just dump everything into Aperture in one load, either, but will do it piecemeal, making separate "projects" so that I can retain control over how things are to be organized. A lot of those folders have a lot of images to be sorted and winnowed out -- it'll be such a pleasure to be able to do it quickly and efficiently with Aperture!

One thing I haven't yet done since buying my iMac and later the PB is to get an external firewire hard drive. It's been on my list of "must-haves" but I have dawdled about actually buying one and setting it up. I see that Aperture strongly encourages the user to have such a device and to use it for the Vault. I like that Aperture will be so easily able to synchronize with the drive and that backups will be so easy. OK, so tomorrow I'll trot over to the Apple store and finally buy the darned thing! LOL! :D

So here is my mini-review of first impressions and first experiences with Aperture.... I am looking forward to reading more from other people as they start working with this program.

OTB

[bousozoku]

Exactly what Aperture's selling point is will likely vary between photographers, but I for one am not especially interested in the "speed" aspect. (Not that I won't take it, but it's not the selling point.) It takes some serious hardware just to run Aperture; if you have serious hardware, Capture One is pretty responsive too.

What it provides is a collection of image correction, preview, and management capabilities that heretofore has required several packages, all expensive. Moreover those packages have not all been particularly well thought out from a UI standpoint.
...

I'm sure the speed in contrast to using Adobe Creative Suite 2 is impressive but it's efficiency that is Aperture's strength to me. You don't convert the file to use various tools...they tools work with the file all the way through the process regardless. It reminds me of using a Macintosh. It's not the fastest machine but you get your work done more quickly because the operating system is more effective and doesn't require you to jump through so many hoops to get it done.

[mainemike]

The images today were from a 7.0 mp camera, my little Casio EXILIM Z750 P&S. Nonetheless, I was pleasantly surprised that there wasn't a lot of lagging with Aperture in the iMac, as I'd been concerned about that possibility. We'll see what happens when I start dealing with RAW and when I'm dealing with RAW from the D200!OTB

Not sure what your hardware configuration is, but if you are cruising though 7mp images with little difficulty you shouldn't have too many problems with the 10mp D200 (when it ships).

I'm using a D2X and Aperture just flies through those 12mp files.

[Clix Pix]

Not sure what your hardware configuration is, but if you are cruising though 7mp images with little difficulty you shouldn't have too many problems with the 10mp D200 (when it ships).

I'm using a D2X and Aperture just flies through those 12mp files.

Good to know! This is a Rev B iMac with stock hard drive, stock graphics card, etc., and 2 GB RAM. I was surprised that there wasn't more difficulty with Aperture. However, as I mentioned, the particular folder with which I started out was one with about 100 jpeg images. I know that with RAW things will be a little different and I would expect that when I'm using the 10 MP D200 things will be somewhat different, too.

OTB

[mainemike]

Hi Mike, what do you mean by 'optimizing'? light post-production, but use Nikon Capture for RAW conversion?
I'm totally unimpressed by the speed and UI of Nikon's software, and Aperture is a lot cheaper than CS2

That's pretty much exactly what I mean. I'm currently using Capture for RAW conversion, White Balance control, etc. and also for highlight control (D-LIGHTING).
And actually, I still rely on Photoshop for a lot of my image editing, and I don't think that will change for the moment as I'm somewhat well versed in Photoshop and not so well versed in Aperture. Time will tell if I rely on Aperture more for the bulk of my RAW image editing and tweaking. But I can say without hesitation that I'll continue to work with Photoshop.

It has been said...on the "internets"...so you know that it MUST be true...>:D
...that Nikon's Capture Editor software works best with images taken with Nikon cameras; that somehow there is this sort of "proprietary voodoo" going on where Nikon Capture brings out the best in RAW files taken with Nikon cameras and that no other software package will produce optimum results because, well, it isn't Nikon software.

Let the debunking or validation of this idea begin!
I share your ambivalence towards Nikon Capture though. Improved, yes, but still sluggish. And Nikon View doesn't hold a candle to Aperture when it comes to image previewing and selecting. Not even close.

[mainemike]

However, as I mentioned, the particular folder with which I started out was one with about 100 jpeg images. I know that with RAW things will be a little different and I would expect that when I'm using the 10 MP D200 things will be somewhat different, too.
OTB

Keep us posted - would be interesting to see. I noticed that I imported a file of about one hundred JPEGs and later, a different folder of about 60 RAW files. I didn't keep time with a stopwatch or anything. But the difference in speed between JPEG and RAW was not terribly noticeable. Of course, I can only speak for my experience using my particular machine.

[The Black Rock]

Will anyone who has the app care to tell us not only their hardware configurations, but also how it looks in Activity Monitor? I have a feeling that my machine might just explode trying to handle this :D !

I have an iMac G5 rev. B, 1.5GB, and about 175GB of free space. Photoshop CS already seems to have a huge footprint, I can't imagine what this will be like when I have Aperture, Photoshop, and (the memory hog of all memory hogs) Safari open at the same time.

[EricNau]

Will anyone who has the app care to tell us not only their hardware configurations, but also how it looks in Activity Monitor? I have a feeling that my machine might just explode trying to handle this :D !

I have an iMac G5 rev. B, 1.5GB, and about 175GB of free space. Photoshop CS already seems to have a huge footprint, I can't imagine what this will be like when I have Aperture, Photoshop, and (the memory hog of all memory hogs) Safari open at the same time.

According to Apple, your computer should be able to handle Aperature just fine.

BTW, Adobe Creative Suite doesn't seem to phase my computer, (which is similar to yours), I can have all of them open and still hardly see a difference.
And Safari doesn't use much either.

[The Black Rock]

Maybe you've got that lucky Safari, I've got several tabs open and it just starts to take up 30-40% of the CPU. I've seen it go over a Gig.5 in VM.

I hope I'll be able to run Aperture well enough on this until I can get my Quad. I'm switching over to digital next year, and with that I'll start accepting jobs I've been refusing for a while.

[vadim007]

Please someone from the lucky one, post what is include in the package . I mean is there ony 1 DVD with Tutorial and the programm? How "heavy" is the programm itself? That else in there? Why do we need 5 GB of free space for installing the Aperture (saw it on Apple site).?
Please!

[iGary]

1 tutorial DVD about 90 minutes in length.

1 install DVD.

223-page "Aperture Getting Started" book.

Aperture Quick reference card.

Install pamphlet and serials.

Software coupon sheet.

30-page license agreement (multi-lingual).

Apple Care software service and support guide.

859 megs is what the program took up on my hard drive.

The activity monitor is NOT indicative of how your computer will handle this program. It is HEAVILY Core Image dependent (I can hear my GPU working with most of the adjustments).

Cheers.

[iGary]

As an FYI (and I don't know what ype of images others are working with), I found it immediately necessary to empty my wallet of 330.00 for the ATI X800 XT video card.

My 9650 just ain''t cutting the mustard with 12MP and 8MP images, especially when it comes to cropping, straightening and other adjustments at the full screen level.

[vadim007]

1 tutorial DVD about 90 minutes in length.

1 install DVD.

223-page "Aperture Getting Started" book.

Aperture Quick reference card.

Install pamphlet and serials.

Software coupone sheet.

30-page license agreement (multi-lingual).

Apple Care software service and support guide.

859 megs is what the program took up on my hard drive.

The activity monitor is NOT indicative of how your computer will handle this program. It is HEAVILY Core Image dependent (I can hear my GPU working with most of the adjustments).

Cheers.


Thanks for the quick answer.
WOW 859 Mb - Do you have any idea what are they all about? (I mean it could not be the programm itself).
Still the mistory why we need 5 Gb of free spece ( sudjested by apple) There is no themes of additional stuff like in DVD studio Pro , Motion, Sound Pro or LiveType , there is just the plain application. BIZARE!! ;)

[iGary]

Thanks for the quick answer.
WOW 859 Mb - Do you have any idea what are they all about? (I mean it could not be the programm itself).
Still the mistory why we need 5 Gb of free spece ( sudjested by apple) There is no themes of additional stuff like in DVD studio Pro , Motion, Sound Pro or LiveType , there is just the plain application. BIZARE!! ;)

There are sample imprts and projects etc....all I know is it said "859MB required."

[Clix Pix]

Will anyone who has the app care to tell us not only their hardware configurations, but also how it looks in Activity Monitor? I have a feeling that my machine might just explode trying to handle this :D !

I have an iMac G5 rev. B, 1.5GB, and about 175GB of free space. Photoshop CS already seems to have a huge footprint, I can't imagine what this will be like when I have Aperture, Photoshop, and (the memory hog of all memory hogs) Safari open at the same time.

That was something which was a pleasant surprise to me, being a recent switcher -- I was amazed that I could have all three programs open at the same time without any glitches! Try THAT on a Windoze machine! LOL!
I did, however, quit my Entourage email program so that I wouldn't be interrupted by notifications of incoming email.

I didn't check Activity Monitor, but the machine (rev B iMac with stock hard drive --250 GB -- and stock graphics card, 2 GB RAM) didn't even blink in protest during the whole time I was working with Aperture and PS CS, and I had watched the 90-minute DVD movie just prior to working with the software, too. My Windoze machine, which also has 2 GB RAM, wouldn't have been able to have handled all of that. I would have had to have rebooted after watching the video, and still would have had a crash while trying to use PS CS....

Today I will be installing Aperture on the rev E 15" PB (7200 rpm hd, 2 GB RAM) and we'll see how that fares.... Initially I wasn't going to put the program on there but I know I'll be eventually using it when I travel, so might as well install it right now.

OTB

[Clix Pix]

As an FYI (and I don't know what ype of images others are working with), I found it immediately necessary to empty my wallet of 330.00 for the ATI X800 XT video card.

My 9650 just ain''t cutting the mustard with 12MP and 8MP images, especially when it comes to cropping, straightening and other adjustments at the full screen level.

I have a strong suspicion that once I've got the D200 and am shooting more and more RAW that there will be yet another new Mac in my future.... I know the iMac isn't built to withstand serious heavy-duty image manipulation. This will tide me over until I do get a PM. I'm glad that I have held off with that though, so that as I use Aperture more and with different images, I'll have a much better idea of what I will really need and how to configure the PM at the time of ordering it.

OTB

[efoto]

Awesome info and screencaps all, thanks for sharing.

I'm working to save up for a PM so I can run this bad boy. It sure sounds like a great addition to workflow and the screens of it looks Apple-nice ;), as one would expect.

iGary, I'd love to hear your reaction to speed boosts between your 9650 and the new x800xt you are getting. I'm trying to figure when configuring a PM if the 6600 will cut it or to save a touch more and get the 7800....decisions decisions :p

[iGary]

Awesome info and screencaps all, thanks for sharing.

I'm working to save up for a PM so I can run this bad boy. It sure sounds like a great addition to workflow and the screens of it looks Apple-nice ;), as one would expect.

iGary, I'd love to hear your reaction to speed boosts between your 9650 and the new x800xt you are getting. I'm trying to figure when configuring a PM if the 6600 will cut it or to save a touch more and get the 7800....decisions decisions :p

Will do. It's coming overnight, so I'll know tomorrow.

Bright side is, there's not much more I can do to torque this thing up aside from a Raptor drive, so my bank account will be happy....until MWSF.

Cheers.

[Westside guy]

There are sample imprts and projects etc....all I know is it said "859MB required."

So I'm assuming this is a fat/universal binary? Has anyone checked? :D

[bbskip22]

2GB is definitely the way to go...running Aperture on a 1.67gHz 17" PB with 1GB RAM doesn't work unless you are a slow thinker or extremely patient...love the program though on the PowerMac, haven't had much time to play, will post more later

Quick Highlights:
Bummers (though you knew it going into the purchase and hopefully will only get better) --
Doesn't necessarily give all you need in compatibility, at least where you would like it to be, especially for the hardware reqs,

Righteous--
Loupe tool increases speed by itself...

Retaining master images is a plus...

I enjoy the iTunes-esque organization style, very intuitive for me...

Light table, second-fav aspect (loupe is #1)

As a photographer, especially working with events, I am excited to have a program designed specifically for a RAW workflow and yes this version might bite the big one in a few areas but the commitment Apple seems to have to continually master this program has me looking for a pot of gold...
Skipper

[opg4759]

My copy just showed up.

Now if Apple would just ship my PowerMac I can start using it.

[efoto]

Will do. It's coming overnight, so I'll know tomorrow.

Bright side is, there's not much more I can do to torque this thing up aside from a Raptor drive, so my bank account will be happy....until MWSF.

Cheers.

Excellent, thanks. I look forward to hearing your impressions of the new card and how it changes the usability of the program.

Also, what PM do you have? (hardware spec I mean)

Thanks again iGary ;)

[sjl]

Anybody have any solid info on how Aperture goes on the low end systems Apple says it'll walk on? I have a 1.25 GHz PowerBook; granted that I need to bump the memory (currently at 512 MB; I'd be getting a 1 GB stick to add to the lone 512 MB stick if I get Aperture), but if Aperture runs at an acceptable speed on it, I might just plonk down the $AU500 (edu pricing) it'll cost me.

I pick up my 20D tomorrow. Looking forward to getting out to a nearby sanctuary early in the morning of a weekend and shooting some wildlife ... it'd be nice to have a decent RAW workflow package to go with it. Unfortunately, I can't afford a PowerMac for a while yet (by the time I can, it'll probably be an IntelMac. :))

[mashinhead]

Great Program i love it, but are there dodge and burn and focus tools? if so where

[jimf]

I got my copy of Aperture today and spent this evening messing around with it. I was intending to spend a few days writing a comprehensive review but some of what I found was interesting enough that I figured I'd just put out what I had - particularly since I found a way to work around the single-disk Library limitation.

In any case, here's the review. It will likely be updated frequently over the next few days or weeks as I use more and more of the product. There are a number of features I have not even tried yet (like printing, because I stupidly ran out of ink the other day). Overall, though, it was pretty much what I thought I was spending my money on and a darn good effort for a 1.0.

http://www.frostbytes.com/twiki/bin/view/Main/ApertureReview?t=2005-12-01T04:34Z

jim frost
jimf@frostbytes.com

[efoto]

I got my copy of Aperture today and spent this evening messing around with it. I was intending to spend a few days writing a comprehensive review but some of what I found was interesting enough that I figured I'd just put out what I had - particularly since I found a way to work around the single-disk Library limitation.

In any case, here's the review. It will likely be updated frequently over the next few days or weeks as I use more and more of the product. There are a number of features I have not even tried yet (like printing, because I stupidly ran out of ink the other day). Overall, though, it was pretty much what I thought I was spending my money on and a darn good effort for a 1.0.

http://www.frostbytes.com/twiki/bin/view/Main/ApertureReview?t=2005-12-01T04:34Z

jim frost
jimf@frostbytes.com

First off thank you for that review, I found it quite informative and coming from an end user that is great. A couple notes I made about it, perhaps that you can add or clear up:
.Your full system specs (You made reference to a Quad, but vid.card and RAM would be interesting so those of us shopping could know how better to judge performance to hardware, especially since Aperture appears to be very vid.card dependent)
.The .tiff files you refer to, what size are they? and what bit-depth? (This perhaps is more personal curiosity, but I know guys at work here that end up working with a single "image" that gets over 1GB and that slows their dual 2.7GHz G5 w/ 8GB of RAM down a bit :p)
.If you could add images showing examples of your descriptions it would be very helpful (not sure you can do this, but just something I find useful when reading reviews)

Thanks again for taking the time to do that, it really is appreciated.

[iGary]

Excellent, thanks. I look forward to hearing your impressions of the new card and how it changes the usability of the program.

Also, what PM do you have? (hardware spec I mean)

Thanks again iGary ;)

Dual 2.7, 8GB RAM and this afternoon, an x800 xt card.

One thing I don't like (unless I am wrong and I can fix it) is the adjustments panel. Aperture "saves" the panel for each image, and every time you open a new one, you have to open up sharpening and noise reduction from a drop down (unless someone can tell me how to shortcut ^N) AGAIN and AGAIN. I'd like this panel to stay the same, or at least give me a good keyboard shortcut.

Please give me some keyboard shortcuts for adjustments.

[iGary]

Great Program i love it, but are there dodge and burn and focus tools? if so where

You can use an external editor for that.

[Josh]

You can use an external editor for that.
That was a good question; never thought about dodge/burn and Aperture.

Not a hassle to do externally, but should definitely be included in the next version.

[CalfCanuck]

Dual 2.7, 8GB RAM and this afternoon, an x800 xt card.

One thing I don't like (unless I am wrong and I can fix it) is the adjustments panel. Aperture "saves" the panel for each image, and every time you open a new one, you have to open up sharpening and noise reduction from a drop down (unless someone can tell me how to shortcut ^N) AGAIN and AGAIN. I'd like this panel to stay the same, or at least give me a good keyboard shortcut.

Please give me some keyboard shortcuts for adjustments.
From the Apple website:

"Aperture has many useful keyboard shortcuts. You can find a list of keyboard shortcuts in the Help menu.
Here are some of the keyboard shortcuts that photographers immediately find useful:

To rate a selected image, press backslash (\) to assign a 5-star rating, or press equal sign (=) or hyphen (-) to increase or decrease a rating.

To designate an image in a stack as the pick image, select the image and press Command-backslash (\).

To quickly turn on or off the display of metadata, such as ratings, filenames, or keywords, press Y.

To quickly turn on or off the display of tooltips (information
that appears when you hold the pointer over an image, button, or control), press T.

To quickly show or hide the Adjustments and Metadata Inspectors, press I.

To quickly show or hide the Adjustments HUD, press H."

Was that last one of use? I'm still waiting for my copy to arrive, so I can't be of more use!

[iGary]

Yeah, I have the keyboard shortcut quick reference in front of me and I cannot find anything for image adjustments.

Like for sharpening, I would like to be able to press CMD - Something, which I can not currently do.

[efoto]

Dual 2.7, 8GB RAM and this afternoon, an x800 xt card.

So how does Aperture feel with the new x800xt???
Do you have any idea where the x800xt falls in comparison to Apple's currently offered video cards? (6600, 6600LE, 7800GT, Quadra FX4500)

I really want to know how the performance changed, at least in verbal descriptors, because I'm trying to figure out what is worth including in an order to Apple and way may be overkill. As far as the computer itself, any PowerMac I order will feel snappy compared to my G4 PB, but I want to make sure I get the 'right' PM starting out, so I don't run into upgrades in 4 months because I didn't take the time initially.

[iGary]

So how does Aperture feel with the new x800xt???
Do you have any idea where the x800xt falls in comparison to Apple's currently offered video cards? (6600, 6600LE, 7800GT, Quadra FX4500)

I really want to know how the performance changed, at least in verbal descriptors, because I'm trying to figure out what is worth including in an order to Apple and way may be overkill. As far as the computer itself, any PowerMac I order will feel snappy compared to my G4 PB, but I want to make sure I get the 'right' PM starting out, so I don't run into upgrades in 4 months because I didn't take the time initially.

They shipped the wonderful card UPS "Saver." :rolleyes:

So now I have to wait till 3:00 prolly. I'll let you know.

Add to the wish list: One click publishing to .Mac

[jimf]

Your full system specs (You made reference to a Quad, but vid.card and RAM would be interesting so those of us shopping could know how better to judge performance to hardware, especially since Aperture appears to be very vid.card dependent)

Sorry, should have included that. It's a Quad with 2G, 250G drive, and Nvidia GeForce 6600. Just your basic Quad plus 1.5G of memory.

.The .tiff files you refer to, what size are they? and what bit-depth? (This perhaps is more personal curiosity, but I know guys at work here that end up working with a single "image" that gets over 1GB and that slows their dual 2.7GHz G5 w/ 8GB of RAM down a bit :p)

They're 16-bit TIFFs. Probably about 36M but I haven't checked that; source is 5-6M Canon RAW files (CRW).

If you could add images showing examples of your descriptions it would be very helpful (not sure you can do this, but just something I find useful when reading reviews)

I plan to do that as I flesh out the review, I just didn't have time last night. Maybe over the weekend. I might not be able to reproduce the washed-out phenomenon and am not sure I saved the rendered shot.

jim

[efoto]

They shipped the wonderful card UPS "Saver." :rolleyes:

So now I have to wait till 3:00 prolly. I'll let you know.

Add to the wish list: One click publishing to .Mac

Those bastards....I hate UPS "Saver" shipping, I much prefer Fedex "Kick-it" Express, they always get it there a little late and damaged :p

Sorry, should have included that. It's a Quad with 2G, 250G drive, and Nvidia GeForce 6600. Just your basic Quad plus 1.5G of memory.

They're 16-bit TIFFs. Probably about 36M but I haven't checked that; source is 5-6M Canon RAW files (CRW).

I plan to do that as I flesh out the review, I just didn't have time last night. Maybe over the weekend. I might not be able to reproduce the washed-out phenomenon and am not sure I saved the rendered shot.

jim

As I said, just suggestions to make it clearer what you are basing your review on. I don't think I can swing a Quad, but I was looking at getting the Dual-2.3 which comes with the 6600 (opposed to the 6600LE) and was debating the 7800GT ($314 more for student price) but the only real app I can think of that would require an increase was/is Aperture (other than games, but I'm not buying specifically for them).

Anyway, I look forward to reading more as your develop the review. Thanks again for doing that, very helpful.

[iGary]

OK -

The X800 XT is in, and the cropping tool, loupe and most of the effects are MUCH faster.

The straightening tool sucks ass, It just doesn't respond. I may have a bug, but...whatever. Some images have the little "Loading" ovelray on the top of the image and it never disappears. So yeah, typical early adopter stuff.

Now I just have to figure out how to get this in my workflow. The lack of keyboard shortcuts for adjustments is killing me.

[George D]

Don't want to be gloomy but... I've got a 2.3ghz dual with 4gig RAM. I dived straight in and imported 1000 CR2 17MB files.
1st of all it took ages to import. Literally 30 minutes. (compared to about 60 seconds in IViewMedia Pro).
2nd it still needs to load the high rez previews in when you first select and image (so why it takes so long to import is beyond me)
3rd it works fine until you try an auto-stack - it CRASHES everytime. Sure it stacks the first dozen or so, but then the dreaded colour wheel just spins away...
Rebooted, tried it 4 times, still CRASHES.
anyone else getting this with heavy loads? What I don't get is how you are supposed to stack intially if not by using the "auto" feature. I mean that's kind of the point right?
Also, can't figure out how to batch rename? That's a weird one.
George

[iGary]

I wash having crashes until I installed the new vid card today.

Then they stopped altogether.

Ah, the joys of being an early adopter. :D :rolleyes:

[George D]

hmm, I've got a Geforce 6600
That ought to be ok don't you think?

[iGary]

hmm, I've got a Geforce 6600
That ought to be ok don't you think?

Ah, you've got a dual core 2.3

Yeah, you should be okee doke.

I've spotted a few bugs, too. Be sure to go to Aperture>Leave Feedback on the Aperture Menu.

You also have 90 days of free telephone support for what it's worth. You can always call and ask.

[George D]

ask? expect apple to help? Jeez. I thought I was the neewbie!
G :)

[amberashby]

Anyone have any insight on how usable Aperture will be on my dual 2.0GHZ with 2.5GB of RAM and a puny ATI9600 Pro card with 64MB of VRAM?

I ordered Aperture today so I will be able to let everyone know the answer to my question in a few days but I'm impatient and need to know if I need to order a new video card.

Thanks.

[iGary]

Anyone have any insight on how usable Aperture will be on my dual 2.0GHZ with 2.5GB of RAM and a puny ATI9600 Pro card with 64MB of VRAM?

I ordered Aperture today so I will be able to let everyone know the answer to my question in a few days but I'm impatient and need to know if I need to order a new video card.

Thanks.

If you have money for another card, get it. Just speaking from going from a 9650 to an x800 xt...

[Clix Pix]

Went ahead and installed Aperture on the PB (Rev E, 7200 rpm, 2 GB hard drive) tonight. It's a bit slower importing than it was on the G5 iMac, which doesn't surprise me. Again, I only started with one folder of about 100 images (6 MP ones taken with the D70). Played around for a little while with sorting out the images and ranking them, but didn't get into anything else yet on here. I won't really be using this PB for serious photo work -- it'll just be for quick-and-dirty downloading from the CF card, winnowing out the baddies, maybe some quick processing in order to share in email or something....

OTB

[efoto]

OK -

The X800 XT is in, and the cropping tool, loupe and most of the effects are MUCH faster.

The straightening tool sucks ass, It just doesn't respond. I may have a bug, but...whatever. Some images have the little "Loading" ovelray on the top of the image and it never disappears. So yeah, typical early adopter stuff.

Now I just have to figure out how to get this in my workflow. The lack of keyboard shortcuts for adjustments is killing me.

Woohoo, thanks a ton iGary. I was just reading around Barefeats and one of their reference tests shows that the x800xt is very similar in performance to the newly optional 7800 GT, stating that if you don't have PCI-E then get the x800xt if you want the best card available:
Fill rate in billions of texels per second
7800 GT = 8.0; X800 XT = 7.6

Memory bandwidth gigabytes in per second
7800 GT = 32; X800 XT = 32

Transform rate in millions of vertices per second
7800 GT = 700; X800 XT = 712
I really wish Apple would offer high end ATI cards in their current lineup of PowerMacs, I much prefer ATI to NVidia. If I may ask iGary, roughly what did that x800xt end up costing you?

Edit: Found the price reference you made before, never mind the repeat I guess ;) It almost makes me made that an older AGP card has the same performance as a brand new 16x PCI-E card...but oh well. Like I said, Apple needs to offer ATI cards, come on already!

[efoto]

Went ahead and installed Aperture on the PB (Rev E, 7200 rpm, 2 GB hard drive) tonight. It's a bit slower importing than it was on the G5 iMac, which doesn't surprise me. Again, I only started with one folder of about 100 images (6 MP ones taken with the D70). Played around for a little while with sorting out the images and ranking them, but didn't get into anything else yet on here. I won't really be using this PB for serious photo work -- it'll just be for quick-and-dirty downloading from the CF card, winnowing out the baddies, maybe some quick processing in order to share in email or something....

OTB

The PB isn't obviously a PM, but how did the performance of Aperture feel on your PB in comparison??

[abaca]

As an FYI (and I don't know what ype of images others are working with), I found it immediately necessary to empty my wallet of 330.00 for the ATI X800 XT video card.

My 9650 just ain''t cutting the mustard with 12MP and 8MP images, especially when it comes to cropping, straightening and other adjustments at the full screen level.

I've been looking for where you found the x800 for $330.00 but I can't find it. Can you divulge where you got it? Thanks.

[Clix Pix]

The PB isn't obviously a PM, but how did the performance of Aperture feel on your PB in comparison??


Well, I don't have a PM to make that comparison (maybe in 2006?), but comparing it to the iMac, it wasn't as sluggish as I'd been afraid it might be. The iMac handled it pretty comfortably, but not super-speedily, and the PB handled it more slowly. I didn't really put Aperture through all its paces tonight so will have a better idea in a few days when I've worked with the program more intensively in both machines. As I mentioned before I'm not really figuring on using Aperture a lot in the PB, it's in there more for convenience when I'm traveling somewhere so that I can play with images on the road if need be. Unless and until I do get a PM I'll be using my iMac for my digital imaging projects. I have the feeling that a fully-loaded PM could run circles around the iMac!

I'll be watching posts carefully to get a good idea of what the best configuration for a PM would be when using PS CS2 and Aperture.... it will be good to have some guidance prior to making that large of an expenditure and investment in equipment.

OTB

[phonic pol]

Im running a dual 2ghz with 2.5GB ram and 9800 Pro graphics. I gave aperture a good run for its money last night. I find it freezes up my system consistently when using the auto stack feature i.e. when stacking images by time interval between shots. I'm wondering how to optimize this so my system doesn't freeze. From what I've seen so far I would say the auto stack feature is one of the most resource hungry HUD's. For info, I've been using the auto stack HUD in galleries of about 100 images to about 3500 images.

Dread to think how my G4 1.33 Power Book will cope!!!:eek:

See my other thread for more details:
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=1950833&posted=1#post1950833

[efoto]

Well, I don't have a PM to make that comparison (maybe in 2006?), but comparing it to the iMac, it wasn't as sluggish as I'd been afraid it might be. The iMac handled it pretty comfortably, but not super-speedily, and the PB handled it more slowly. I didn't really put Aperture through all its paces tonight so will have a better idea in a few days when I've worked with the program more intensively in both machines. As I mentioned before I'm not really figuring on using Aperture a lot in the PB, it's in there more for convenience when I'm traveling somewhere so that I can play with images on the road if need be. Unless and until I do get a PM I'll be using my iMac for my digital imaging projects. I have the feeling that a fully-loaded PM could run circles around the iMac!

I'll be watching posts carefully to get a good idea of what the best configuration for a PM would be when using PS CS2 and Aperture.... it will be good to have some guidance prior to making that large of an expenditure and investment in equipment.

OTB

Sorry, I had you confused with another member I think, I knew you had an iMac I just made a memory blunder :o.

I bounced the idea of a PowerMac off my father last night (not that he would pay, but I like to bounce ideas off of him for advice) and the short-story resulted in a "it's your money, do whatever you want with it" which I took to mean you retarded kid, that is too much money for you to be spending right now :p

I was really hoping Bare Feats would have more tests between the various dual-core models and the dual-proc models, comparing the two and showing differences. Sadly, there doesn't seem to be many tests of this nature (yet) :( I'm looking to figure out what cards make a sensible difference (Bare Feats did equate the x800xt AGP card iGary just installed to the newly offered 7800 GT) and what other factors (dc2.0 vs. dc2.3 vs. qc2.5) really impact things. I found an older report that actually showed the dp 2.5 of late to be faster in graphics intensive apps compared to the dp 2.7 (which was found to be an issue with memory interaction and the 2.7 procs being faster than the RAM which caused backups, theoretically).

Anyone have any other good Mac review and spec sites that are doing more with the new systems vs. older ones or other ones? (i.e. iMac and PowerBook?)

[iGary]

I've been looking for where you found the x800 for $330.00 but I can't find it. Can you divulge where you got it? Thanks.

Froogle is your friend.

http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product_Id=4050670&JRSource=google.datafeed.ATI+100435317

[Thomas S]

After a few more days of playing with it I've got a story to tell you.

My dad and I both are heavily into photography. He does corporate work and also a lot of nature with me.

He's always used his Mamiya 645 Pros. In fact, he loves them. However, he's wanted to go digital for a LONG time, but just couldn't get himself wrapped around the computer.

Anyhow, with Aperture we both believe this is going to take things to a whole different level. Even right now he's actually sitting down and converting RAWs(we've currently rented a D2x to see if we're buying either two of those or the D200s. The benefit with the D200 is the leftover money can buy us a few new lenses that we'd enjoy dearly. Bodies get replaced so much more often than lenses...)

Its really made life a LOT easier for both of us. So much in fact that we've contacted B&H to sell our Mamiya equipment (sadly Calumet refuses to as they've got too many in stock).

The software is awesome, and will be even FASTER once we get the x800xt video card. Now the question isn't how can he get on the computer, but how can he get OFF. Another problem is how to get more storage space since the library can only span one disk. Its off to research setting up a RAID.

We can't wait. Aperture is just really, really intuitive. But it does have its problems...

[kbonnel]

"it's your money, do whatever you want with it" which I took to mean you retarded kid, that is too much money for you to be spending right now :p


this is parent lingo 101 :) I got this a lot from my mother when I was younger. It really brings on the guilt factor :(

Kimo

[NoNameBrand]

this is parent lingo 101 :) I got this a lot from my mother when I was younger. It really brings on the guilt factor :(

Kimo

I always took it as permission :)

[drlunanerd]

So I'm assuming this is a fat/universal binary? Has anyone checked? :D

Nope, it isn't :eek:

Interesting. Perhaps another clue as to when Pro Intel Macs will be released e.g. *not* in January at MWSF.

I suppose it's possible, if Apple play nice, that a future updater may enable native execution on Intel Macs. At the moment it's not a deal-breaker.

[mashinhead]

i have a question about publishing web pages. Can you change the settings so you can publish with one click like with dot mac. except to a private website?

[sjl]

Ars has a review up at http://arstechnica.com/reviews/apps/aperture.ars ... seems that they're a little bit down on Aperture's performance, especially with the raw conversion. Page 5, and also later pages, in particular.

Anybody care to add comments from their personal experience?

From where I sit, even assuming that my Powerbook will do the job, this is a deal breaker. I'm not about to shoot raw, only to have the conversion end up utterly botched ... (fwiw: EOS 20D. Not that it's urgent; I really need better lenses before raw will give me significant improvements ...)

[efoto]

this is parent lingo 101 :) I got this a lot from my mother when I was younger. It really brings on the guilt factor :(I always took it as permission :)

I always viewed it as an attempted guilt trip with a little bit of permission mixed in....something I often try to take advantage of whenever possilbe :rolleyes:

In my latter years my dad finally realized that I often say things and want things that make no sense, ask him about it to get his opinion, but then rarely go through and make the purchases so he has relaxed a little bit....but still wigs out whenever it is something that he doesn't think is worth it.

[efoto]

Ars has a review up at http://arstechnica.com/reviews/apps/aperture.ars ... seems that they're a little bit down on Aperture's performance, especially with the raw conversion. Page 5, and also later pages, in particular.

Anybody care to add comments from their personal experience?

From where I sit, even assuming that my Powerbook will do the job, this is a deal breaker. I'm not about to shoot raw, only to have the conversion end up utterly botched ... (fwiw: EOS 20D. Not that it's urgent; I really need better lenses before raw will give me significant improvements ...)

Thanks for that link, interesting read.

As far as RAW, there are other benefits for you regardless of your lenses. If the conversions aren't the best that is something to worry about I suppose, but many other benefits can be had from shooting RAW even on 'lesser' glass. I don't have a specific link for a resource on this, but read around a bit for the benefits and 'features' of RAW and you may be surprised/impressed.

[Morn]

Interesting, as the intel powerbooks should offer performance comparable to a 2ghz or 2.3ghz powermac. If they are out in january.... aperture won't be taking advantage of them. (Btw, when steve jobs says power per watt HE REALLY MEANT IT)

[njmac]

Ars has a review up at http://arstechnica.com/reviews/apps/aperture.ars ... seems that they're a little bit down on Aperture's performance, especially with the raw conversion. Page 5, and also later pages, in particular.



That article makes Aperture seem absolutely abysmal. The pro photogs raved about it (In the profile part of the Aperture website.) Are they on Apple's payroll? :confused: . Arstechnica gave it a 4 out of 10 rating! Thanks for that link.... I'm sure that will make many photographers wait for version 2.

Apple will get it right eventually and I think it will be the industry standard. :cool:

[Sunrunner]

That article makes Aperture seem absolutely abysmal. The pro photogs raved about it (In the profile part of the Aperture website.) Are they on Apple's payroll? :confused: . Arstechnica gave it a 4 out of 10 rating! Thanks for that link.... I'm sure that will make many photographers wait for version 2.

Apple will get it right eventually and I think it will be the industry standard. :cool:


Is this really a software problem or a hardware problem. Are the problems a result of the hardware not being able to handle the processing required?

[iGary]

I'm working on a multi-page review both for here, and for our Aperture "Wiki."

Should be done by the end of the week.

[~Shard~]

I'm working on a multi-page review both for here, and for our Aperture "Wiki."

Should be done by the end of the week.

Thanks iGary, that would definitely be appreciated! :)

Also, I assume you must be changing your 'tar?

[iGary]

Thanks iGary, that would definitely be appreciated! :)

Also, I assume you must be changing your 'tar?

Nah, it's there.

[CalfCanuck]

Well, my version of Aperture came yesterday, and I just installed it late last night before heading off to bed. So hopefully in a day or two I'll have some comments of my own to add.

But regarding the ars review, a couple of points:

1. In the user comments after the review (which had a lot of good points), someone commented that there were 2 major criticisms of the software, but that both were fixable (poor RAW conversions and bugs, if my memory serves me). This person felt that the review "missed the forest for the trees" in getting too bogged down in these areas which probably would be fixed by version 1.02. The reply was "Well, this is what's shipping today!".

But is it really fair to expect a 1.00 version to be bug-free 5 days after it ships? And when a couple of major bugs appear, complain that it is garbage merely for that reason?

2. Almost 25% of the review was the reviewer's pet peeve about small fonts that are unreadable on large screens. While I sympathize (my PC laptop is a 15" with 1600 x 1400 pixels - great for page layout but almost blinding for small text), the question is really why do WE AS USERS choose monitors that "overpack" pixels just to get more real estate on screen? One can buy a native 1280 x 1024 LCD that ranges from 14" to 20" - needless to say, the later will be far more legible.

I'm very happy with what I've seen so far, while understanding the limits. I think the Stacks feature ROCKS, I'm excited about the Vault BU (a major selling point for me), the loupe is slow on my iMac but still useable - but it will allow me to choose pictures without having to open 6 or 8 inside PS to look at the detail.

My summary - although I do cross-platform development and program on my PC, I've always handled all my images, audio and video manipulations inside the Mac. If I stayed with it through all the "lean" years when the Mac's life was hanging by a thread, it's highly unlikely I'll ditch it anytime soon. Given the choice of a Mac combined with the way I work, I see Aperture as the way of the future. Hence I might as well start working with it ASAP and start developing my Aperture DB of images/meta data. Plus hope that Apple addresses the RAW issue (my only real concern) soon!

[~Shard~]

Nah, it's there.

Ah, so it is - I thought I caught you mid-change. ;) Fair enough then! :cool:

[efoto]

I'm working on a multi-page review both for here, and for our Aperture "Wiki."

Should be done by the end of the week.

Excellent, I look forward to reading that. Are you noticing the final products lacking in quality? A buddy has a dual 1.8 G5 with x800xt (I believe) and he said that the final outputs look horrid, like "jpg 7" compression out of PS :(....are you seeing this as well?

1. In the user comments after the review (which had a lot of good points), someone commented that there were 2 major criticisms of the software, but that both were fixable (poor RAW conversions and bugs, if my memory serves me). This person felt that the review "missed the forest for the trees" in getting too bogged down in these areas which probably would be fixed by version 1.02. The reply was "Well, this is what's shipping today!".

Oh do tell, do tell. I've heard many complaints about RAW conversion and final output quality, but no ways to fix it. I've also heard/read that using the sharpening tool destroys the viewing quality, perhaps a bug in that tool specifically as well as others in the program.

Is this really a software problem or a hardware problem. Are the problems a result of the hardware not being able to handle the processing required?

Software I believe. I've heard reports of people successfully running it on 12"PB's with a fixed 'checker' that allows the program to launch under a Go5200 card....and it runs 'fine' considering the 12"PB isn't the fastest computer to being with. Max the RAM and apparently it runs about as fast as PSCS2, granted slower than a PM w/ hot v.card, but my PSCS2 runs great so if Aperture ran that well, I'd use it. Even with the bugs, I'd use it as a effective 'upgrade' to storage means over iPhoto....just to get Stack and Versioning abilities.

[CalfCanuck]

Oh do tell, do tell. I've heard many complaints about RAW conversion and final output quality, but no ways to fix it. I've also heard/read that using the sharpening tool destroys the viewing quality, perhaps a bug in that tool specifically as well as others in the program.
I mean that both the initial bugs problems (freezing, etc) as well as RAW support will be fairly easily fixable by Apple. The fact that most issues seem to be easily "reproducible" means that these will also be easy for the software team to debug for our 1.01 upgrade. The RAW problems might take a bit longer, but the pessimism in the ars review ("it's too much of a task for Apple to implement successfully") is just nonsense!

In the short term, my goal is to learn Aperture by developing a new DB of images for a long term project - (one where I won't be needing output immediately). I already have about 20,000 images that I never started developing in Cumulus (my current media management software), so I'll begin importing those in smaller batches and experimenting with tagging them, using the stacks feature, implementing my BU strategies, etc.

I will be avoiding any major exports for a bit. If I need to get an image, I can easily import it directly from PS (based on my naming system). I'm pretty confident that by the time I've got this program figured out, most of the major complaints will have been addressed.

It should be noted that even the Aperture literature suggested an incremental approach as you learn how to use the new work flow. If one imports 100,000 images the first day and starts screwing around with them, a lot of time will be wasted. Better to start small and learn to do it right!

[~Shard~]

After reading some of these reviews, I am thinking I'll either hold off until Aperture 2 or just pick up iPhoto 6 if some of these features are indeed going to be included, turning iPhoto into "Aperture Express" (informally of course) - that would be my preference, actually.

[efoto]

I mean that both the initial bugs problems (freezing, etc) as well as RAW support will be fairly easily fixable by Apple. The fact that most issues seem to be easily "reproducible" means that these will also be easy for the software team to debug for our 1.01 upgrade. The RAW problems might take a bit longer, but the pessimism in the ars review ("it's too much of a task for Apple to implement successfully") is just nonsense!

In the short term, my goal is to learn Aperture by developing a new DB of images for a long term project - (one where I won't be needing output immediately). I already have about 20,000 images that I never started developing in Cumulus (my current media management software), so I'll begin importing those in smaller batches and experimenting with tagging them, using the stacks feature, implementing my BU strategies, etc.

I will be avoiding any major exports for a bit. If I need to get an image, I can easily import it directly from PS (based on my naming system). I'm pretty confident that by the time I've got this program figured out, most of the major complaints will have been addressed.

It should be noted that even the Aperture literature suggested an incremental approach as you learn how to use the new work flow. If one imports 100,000 images the first day and starts screwing around with them, a lot of time will be wasted. Better to start small and learn to do it right!

I see, I read that the first time around as being user-fixable somehow which spurred my interests.

You say you'll be avoiding any major exports, but don't the problems being seen come from when tools are applied and the 'version' is viewed looking quite low-quality? If the image is in Aperture doesn't the original always stay untouched and therefore can be retrieved by/through PS if you needed it for print?

I'm interested in Aperture as an upgraded storage means and sort method from iPhoto (which is horrid). If they can further implement more tools and make it work even better in the future, I'm all for it....but for the time being, I'm still intrigued even as a storage/sorting solution. Although that is assuming my images in the program stay untouched and 'original' :o

[sjl]

1. In the user comments after the review (which had a lot of good points), someone commented that there were 2 major criticisms of the software, but that both were fixable (poor RAW conversions and bugs, if my memory serves me). This person felt that the review "missed the forest for the trees" in getting too bogged down in these areas which probably would be fixed by version 1.02. The reply was "Well, this is what's shipping today!".

But is it really fair to expect a 1.00 version to be bug-free 5 days after it ships? And when a couple of major bugs appear, complain that it is garbage merely for that reason?

2. Almost 25% of the review was the reviewer's pet peeve about small fonts that are unreadable on large screens. [...]

The second point, I fully agree with -- I don't see that as being as big a problem as the reviewer seems to think it is.

On the RAW conversions, though: isn't that the sine qua non of Aperture? I would expect an application that touts itself as a RAW workflow program to have something like that pretty much tied up and sorted. Reading the Ars review makes me think that it's a very long way from that.

Now, I'll happily agree that different cameras have different formats for RAW, and even that the algorithms to get the image quality out of a given RAW format are pretty sophisticated. But really, Apple should have made sure that the output from Aperture would be as good as that from Photoshop and/or the camera vendors' software.

I'm still interested in Aperture, but for the price, I don't think it's good enough to have the software shipping with a flaw in what I regard as fundamental functionality. Apple can ship updates to fix the problems, sure -- but I don't know when they'll ship them, or how good they'll be. All anybody can go on is what is out there here and now, and either say "it's acceptable" or "it's not". To accept a software vendor's assurances (implicit or explicit) that the problems will be sorted out "real soon now" is just asking for trouble.

Having said all of that, it hasn't stopped my interest in Aperture. Once there have been a few updates to the raw image processing aspect, and I'm comfortable with the image quality I can get out of it, I'll quite likely plonk down the cash. But not before.

[CalfCanuck]

I see, I read that the first time around as being user-fixable somehow which spurred my interests.

You say you'll be avoiding any major exports, but don't the problems being seen come from when tools are applied and the 'version' is viewed looking quite low-quality? If the image is in Aperture doesn't the original always stay untouched and therefore can be retrieved by/through PS if you needed it for print?
Again, it's my first day, so allow for some confusion on my part!:p Anyway, there is a good thread I started a few weeks ago that referred to an interview with the Aperture development team. It does a good job of explaining what is saved where, and the potential to access metadata at a later stage.

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=1961071#post1961071

As to how Aperture treats the "round-trip" to PS. you begin by setting an external editor in your preferences, including how you want the file exported (psd vs tiff in the PS case). Then when you select "Open with external editor" it applies whatever changes you have applied INSIDE Aperture to that "Version" of the Master image before converting to your file format of choice and opening inside our external editor already converted.

In my temp workaround, if I needed to access a RAW photo I would just look at my file name inside Aperture, then from inside PS go to the original, pre-imported file (outside of the Aperture folder system). You can still access the untouched Masters inside the Aperture package, but for me there is no need to do this extra step.

Note that many of my earlier photos I am now working with were originally highest quality jpeg's from my first digital SLR (D30) in spring 2002, whose RAW format is not supported by Aperture anyway. For these the RAW issue is irrelevant (as it will be for scans from my old Velvia images). My more recent images are RAW, but my short-term goal is creating order via keywords, etc. while I get to know Aperture.

I'm interested in Aperture as an upgraded storage means and sort method from iPhoto (which is horrid). If they can further implement more tools and make it work even better in the future, I'm all for it....but for the time being, I'm still intrigued even as a storage/sorting solution. Although that is assuming my images in the program stay untouched and 'original' :o
Again, take a look at the referenced discussion with the software team. All the originals are untouched, and future versions of Aperture may well allow the integration of meta data back into an exported version of the Master file. Of course this goes against the idea of untouched originals, which is why Aperture has three files for each image.

[efoto]

Again, it's my first day, so allow for some confusion on my part!:p Anyway, there is a good thread I started a few weeks ago that referred to an interview with the Aperture development team. It does a good job of explaining what is saved where, and the potential to access metadata at a later stage.

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=1961071#post1961071

Thanks for that, informative read.

In my temp workaround, if I needed to access a RAW photo I would just look at my file name inside Aperture, then from inside PS go to the original, pre-imported file (outside of the Aperture folder system). You can still access the untouched Masters inside the Aperture package, but for me there is no need to do this extra step.

You are negating that extra step by having duplicates of the files on the same (or external, whatever) harddrive correct? I was wondering if the original RAW files could be accessed inside Aperture somehow so that I wouldn't have to keep the original in a folder hierarchy outside and then also have a second 'original' imported inside....that would eat my HDDs pretty quick :o

I have all of the really important stuff backed up to DVD, but for the time being I don't have enough excess HDD space to keep a folder hierarchy of images AND import them into Aperture....it has to be one or the other.

[CalfCanuck]

You are negating that extra step by having duplicates of the files on the same (or external, whatever) harddrive correct? I was wondering if the original RAW files could be accessed inside Aperture somehow so that I wouldn't have to keep the original in a folder hierarchy outside and then also have a second 'original' imported inside....that would eat my HDDs pretty quick :o

I have all of the really important stuff backed up to DVD, but for the time being I don't have enough excess HDD space to keep a folder hierarchy of images AND import them into Aperture....it has to be one or the other.
Aperture imports all files into projects folders inside it's library package (/Users/User name/Pictures/Aperture Library). It creates a separate folder for each image, with the original image plus 4 other files.

In my case I like lots of backups, as our original "negatives" are the most valuable thing for photographers. This ability to archive negatives (hopefully in a safe deposit box) is one of the amazing things about digital photography. I just cry whenever I read a newspaper article about a photographer who lost all their negatives when their house/darkroom burnt down!

[CalfCanuck]

Well, at the end of my first day inside Aperture I have to say I like what I see - contrary to the spewing on the ars discussion board about the review!

To preface my remarks, I am a photographer that switched to digital backs in late 2000. But I must also state that I have been constantly frustrated by the work flow issues (my current image asset mamager is Cumulus, as I also store project audio and text inside it).

About every 3-4 months I just go nuts and wander around the web for a few hours looking for something better, but it ends up looking like jumping from one frustrating program to another one that's more of the same. Better the devil you know ...

Anyway, the announcement of Aperture got me to sit up in my chair and take notice. Cumulus allowed me to identify a number of thumbnails that had potential quite quickly, but to look at the detail I always ended up with 15-20 images open in PS as I tried to figure out which one to chose. And having to fuss with importing those 14 ones that would merely be discarded unsaved was not a pleasant task. So even after one day the Loupe is looking quite sweet.

A quick note on file importing - I imported 1000 jpeg's from my D30 and D60 bodies shot in 2002 in about 1.4 seconds per file (average size of about 2 MB). I then imported 78 RAW files from my 20D in about 2.2 seconds per file (average size about 9 MB). Each imported image was placed inside a unique folder, with 4 other supporting files located there as well.

[efoto]

Aperture imports all files into projects folders inside it's library package (/Users/User name/Pictures/Aperture Library). It creates a separate folder for each image, with the original image plus 4 other files.

In my case I like lots of backups, as our original "negatives" are the most valuable thing for photographers. This ability to archive negatives (hopefully in a safe deposit box) is one of the amazing things about digital photography. I just cry whenever I read a newspaper article about a photographer who lost all their negatives when their house/darkroom burnt down!

I understand your reasoning for having redundant digital negatives (originals), I was just asking if the only reason you were negating the deletion of the original folder is to have those redundant copies. For someone with only 80GB internal storage, space becomes a major issue pretty quick when shooting RAW. I backup my 'negatives' to DVD or other drives....but usually when I use a program to import them (used iPhoto for a bit, but then vomited and took them all back out :rolleyes: ) I delete the original folder that held the images because I can't afford, space wise, to have two copies of the same RAW image locally.

Basically, you are using redundant storage on the same drive, or an external backup....but isn't that essentially the same as using the 'Vault' and backing it up to a FW drive or something?

[CalfCanuck]

I understand your reasoning for having redundant digital negatives (originals), I was just asking if the only reason you were negating the deletion of the original folder is to have those redundant copies. For someone with only 80GB internal storage, space becomes a major issue pretty quick when shooting RAW. I backup my 'negatives' to DVD or other drives....but usually when I use a program to import them (used iPhoto for a bit, but then vomited and took them all back out :rolleyes: ) I delete the original folder that held the images because I can't afford, space wise, to have two copies of the same RAW image locally.

Basically, you are using redundant storage on the same drive, or an external backup....but isn't that essentially the same as using the 'Vault' and backing it up to a FW drive or something?
I actually have about 4 or 5 external HD's lying around - usually 3 hooked up at once.

While there are some similarities between Vault and other BU strategies (I use Retrospect), the big difference is that Vault backs up not only your pictures, but the data for your edits as well. So it's not just your files that it is saving.

I should also clarify what I said yesterday about the original images being stored unchanged in a aperture folder package. I talked about the structure to show you where the file reside, untouched, but it's probably not the wisest, nor the fastest, to use that method to access them.

The simplest way for ANYONE using Aperture to open those saved Master RAW files directly inside PS or C1 is merely to Export your Master file to your desktop. It took about a second to Export a 8 MB RAW file from my 20D.

So even if people have issues with the RAW conversion (I did a few quick conversions with my 20D RAW and didn't see any apparent issues), I think the workflow issues of using Aperture's tools to winnow 1500 images down to a final 30 will rock. Once the 30 images have been chosen, Exporting them should take under a minute - then one can use any method of converting RAW's that one chooses!

[CalfCanuck]

I'm working on a multi-page review both for here, and for our Aperture "Wiki."

Should be done by the end of the week.
iGary,

Hope the review is coming along well - I am REALLY enjoying Aperture. Never thought that Stacks would be such a big deal, but I love it!

I'm sending this email to ask if you have any questions - I'm off to one of the 4 introduction showcase seminars at 2 pm today in San Francisco. It's a supposed to be given by a member of the Aperture team (hopefully not just a marketing person), so if I can sneak in a question from you to add to my own, I'll try...

"This December, Apple will host a national tour to showcase Aperture, the first all-in-one post-production tool for photographers. Join us and find out how you can harness Aperture and Mac OS X Tiger to give you a complete workflow for today’s digital environment."

[~Shard~]

I'm sending this email to ask if you have any questions - I'm off to one of the 4 introduction showcase seminars at 2 pm today in San Francisco. It's a supposed to be given by a member of the Aperture team (hopefully not just a marketing person), so if I can sneak in a question from you to add to my own, I'll try...

Very nice of you to offer to do this, but perhaps a PM to iGary instead would be more appropriate and effective. ;)

[CalfCanuck]

Well,

Just back from the first of the four showcases (the others are in LA, Chicago, and NYC over the next week) here in San Francisco today. There were probably about 200 people at the 2 hour talk (mainly working pros), and they seemed quite open to the idea.

It was given by Joseph Schorr, the Aperture Product Manager, so he should be in the know! 100 minutes running through it's paces, plus a 20 minute Q & A.

A lot of focus on showing off how it runs off the base RAW's throughout the process, which is the innovation. The ars review focused a lot on RAW as it come out of Aperture into a finished file via-a-vis Adobe RAW support and C1, but that really misses the point. Aperture looks instead at having total access to those RAW files, and increasing productivity, during the culling stage (for example, going from 1500 down to 30 final images). Once you know what you want, you can easily export them out (as I commented earlier) at about 1 second per image, then use whatever other RAW import filter one choses.

I did ask a question about scalability - we already know of the 10,000 image limit in a Project, and I know that Aperture also uses Folders and Albums as "containers" as well. He stated that folders could hold multiple projects with a 100,000 image limit, and that the development team down in Cupertino had experimented with Libraries up to 500,000 images. He did state that keeping smaller Projects did speed things up, so I take that to mean that opening up 200,000 images in one window should probably be avoided. ;)

He also talked about using multiple Libraries (located on different HD's, for example). This is not totally seamless in v.1, but at the same time not too difficult either. By pointing Aperture to a different Library location in the Aperture preferences - here's the info on new Libraries from the manual:

"To change the location of the Library, copy the Library file to a different hard disk. The Library file is located in the Pictures folder, with the name Aperture Library. After copying the file to a new location, you specify the new location in the Preferences window. To specify a new location for the Library, choose Aperture > Preferences, then click the Set button below the Library Location field, navigate to the Library file at the new location, and click Select. Make sure to select the Library file itself, not a folder holding the Library file. If you select a folder, Aperture creates a new, empty Library file instead of locating your copied Library file. When you quit and reopen Aperture, the application accesses your Library from the new location."

Finally, Aperture can export and import Projects. It looks like this is the way you combine workflow between new images on your PB in the field (you create a new Project on the PB and import your new images into that)and your "monster" Library back on your main computer (where you would export the Project from your PB and then import it into your Aperture Library on your desktop).

Didn't mean to ramble, but just wanted to highlight how it appears Apple has designed the workflow ...

[efoto]

He also talked about using multiple Libraries (located on different HD's, for example). This is not totally seamless in v.1, but at the same time not too difficult either. By pointing Aperture to a different Library location in the Aperture preferences - here's the info on new Libraries from the manual:

"To change the location of the Library, copy the Library file to a different hard disk. The Library file is located in the Pictures folder, with the name Aperture Library. After copying the file to a new location, you specify the new location in the Preferences window. To specify a new location for the Library, choose Aperture > Preferences, then click the Set button below the Library Location field, navigate to the Library file at the new location, and click Select. Make sure to select the Library file itself, not a folder holding the Library file. If you select a folder, Aperture creates a new, empty Library file instead of locating your copied Library file. When you quit and reopen Aperture, the application accesses your Library from the new location."

So this is separate from the vaults, those being backups and these being separate libraries?

Just to get a better handle on this....if I set another library somewhere else (either another disk or another location) and turn Aperture to look there, that new library is blank and unused? So I could have two libraries and as long as I switch Aperture between them, no one is worse for wear?

This sounds like what iPhoto Buddy did for iPhoto, allowing multiple libraries instead of just having albums within the same library. I personally like this idea (assuming it's the same setup as iPBuddy) because some things just don't go together and it's much easier to separate them completely than just by an album. With iPB I had libraries for Autos, France, Women ;), etc, and then within each library I had them sorted by albums for capture date/event. I much prefer that sort of spacing/architecture....is that what this allows?

[iGary]

I'm sorry I have not been able to contribute much, guys. I have a couple of story deadlines I'm under and a lot of work on my desk. I promise I'll be in soon to contribute to the discussion.

[CalfCanuck]

So this is separate from the vaults, those being backups and these being separate libraries?

Just to get a better handle on this....if I set another library somewhere else (either another disk or another location) and turn Aperture to look there, that new library is blank and unused? So I could have two libraries and as long as I switch Aperture between them, no one is worse for wear?

This sounds like what iPhoto Buddy did for iPhoto, allowing multiple libraries instead of just having albums within the same library. I personally like this idea (assuming it's the same setup as iPBuddy) because some things just don't go together and it's much easier to separate them completely than just by an album. With iPB I had libraries for Autos, France, Women ;), etc, and then within each library I had them sorted by albums for capture date/event. I much prefer that sort of spacing/architecture....is that what this allows?
Backing up a bit, the reference to multiple libraries was directed more at people who were concerned about Aperture's Library being limited to the physical size of a hard drive. So if they had a 250 GB HD, and using the example of 12MB per RAW image, 1000 images take up 12GB. Hence this single HD "solution" used by Aperture would max out at about 20,000 images. A work around for letting Aperture 1.0 access multiple Libraries (on different HD's because one HD is too small) would use the method I described earlier.

So my comments were directed at understanding where and why one would use different libraries if you are shooting massive amounts of images per year. In my real world case, I might shoot 30 or 40 GB on a extended multi-week shoot, but then I'd come back and spend a LOT of time processing those images - hence I'm not shooting 500 GB a year. Allowing for my Canon 20Ds RAW size of about 9 MB per image combined with trashing about 20% of my "unsuccessful" images, I could probably put almost 35,000 original RAW 20D images into a Library on a 250 GB drive before maxing it out.

Now back to your questions - assuming you have the drive space (which you would need regardless of using Aperture or not), there are many a few different methods to organize images INSIDE a single Library, and those are what you would use. It's always better to have the images available for access WITHIN a single Library - you'd use numerous "Projects" to import images into, as well as "Albums" and "Folders" inside a Library. If your Library maxed out the space on a HD, one's first choice would always be to relocate the Library to a different, larger HD with more free space to allow the library room to grow.

Edit - forgot to answer your Vault question: think of an Aperture vault like a Bank Vault - it's used to store stuff in a safe place. Hence the Vault are the back-ups, in case of HD failure, data corruption, or natural disasters (computer destroyed in a fire, etc)

[~Shard~]

I'm sorry I have not been able to contribute much, guys. I have a couple of story deadlines I'm under and a lot of work on my desk. I promise I'll be in soon to contribute to the discussion.


No worries iGary, it gets done when it gets done. There are many people here who are appreciative of you doing this in the first place, so there's definitely no rush. :)

[efoto]

Thanks for the explanation CalfCanuck, I think I'm slowly catching on a little bit. It would be a lot easier to grasp if I actually had a copy of my own to use and explore. I have had such limited time on it that it's hard to really get a feel for all that is being discussed. I just know that libraries in iPhoto became very cluttered, but there were only albums so perhaps the 'Projects' in Aperture can act like what I used multiple iPhoto libraries for.

[amberashby]

Hi everyone,

Aperture isn't running quite as fast as I'd hoped it would. I'm sure it is because of my 64MB video card. I don't have $300+ right now to upgrade it so I decided to go ahead and sell it now with the intention of saving up for a new video card.

I just received it Wednesday and it is the Acedimic version (exactly the same as the regular version except for the Acedemic sticker and Academic on the splash screen at launch.) I did not register it and have uninstalled it.

Email me if anyone is interested. Willing to sell it for $225 plus $5 shipping USPS priority. Will be posting it on Ebay tomorrow if I don't get a response.

Thanks.

LSUTIGER@MAC.COM

[bm7at81]

I've heard reports of people successfully running it on 12"PB's with a fixed 'checker' that allows the program to launch under a Go5200 card....and it runs 'fine' considering the 12"PB isn't the fastest computer to being with.

I can confirm that Aperture runs great on my 12" G4 1.5ghz PB with 768MB RAM. It takes a while to import the photos and is sluggish for about 30 secs when browsing to a new album, but once loaded up, the images load almost instantly (lightyears ahead of iphoto!) and the processing/editing is much quicker than with CS2.

Have to admit, im not really a photography buff and I havent had it long enough to really give it a good spin, but am impressed so far. Im looking forward to see how it handles after I upgrade to 1.25Gb Ram.

One thing i will mention, the previews in the primary display would always come up blank (just the black background) no matter what type of file i was viewing - I managed to fix this by changing my Display in System Pref from a manually calibrated LCD profile to the RGB Stored Preset Profile - Previews are now looking great - just wish i had more screen real-estate!

Cheers

[Jo-Kun]

I can confirm that Aperture runs great on my 12" G4 1.5ghz PB with 768MB RAM. It takes a while to import the photos and is sluggish for about 30 secs when browsing to a new album, but once loaded up, the images load almost instantly (lightyears ahead of iphoto!) and the processing/editing is much quicker than with CS2.
...

so you can install it on a 'non supported' system? I mean the only thing I don't have is a supported graphics card... all the rest of my G5 is up to speed... and maybe I will add a new card later, but first I would like to use aperture anyway...

did anything come up while installing etc that said you couldn't install it and what did you do to get it installed?

I've talked to the people in my Pro Photo shop (both part time photographers & salesmen... so they know about what they are talking) and I asked them to compare it with Capture One... they told me what's the big advantage except the live adjustments... the speed because its the fastest raw processor there is & you can copy adjustments to whle series after correcting the first... wich is great when you shoot a lot of images with the same studiosetup need to correct only one (for instance shoot the first image with the kodak color/grey strips) and than adjust all... saves a lot of time while otherwise rocessing image per image... ok finetuning will be done in photoshop but the biggest timehog is rawprocessing...

they tld me to go with aperture now instead of Capture One, they both do the same, cost the same, but aperture is much faster & as mentioned by Jim Frost... lightbox with loupe gives aperture even some more advantage...

so probably next jan. I'm getting Aperture... and hope I can get it up and running without buying a new graphics card yet...

J

[efoto]

I'm sorry I have not been able to contribute much, guys. I have a couple of story deadlines I'm under and a lot of work on my desk. I promise I'll be in soon to contribute to the discussion.

Just a friendly MR-hood reminder/poke to see if had any new thoughts on Aperture iGary (and others). If you're busy you're busy, but if you have some free time I'd sure love to hear your experiences with it over the last week or so.

[Glenn Wolsey]

Aperture is running extremely well on my 2Ghz iMac G5, with 1GB of RAM.

I'm very happy.