Death of the Start Menu?

[RobHague]

http://www.activewin.com/screenshots/vista/nov05ctp/

New 'ORB' shaped start button in the new builds of Vista. Looks like the 'Start' menu has seen its last use in XP. I always through MS wanted to keep the START menu because it became so much associated with 'Windows'.

[katie ta achoo]

Oh my lord!

instead of a rectangular box, they're using a *gasp*
CIRCLE?

Vista is so far ahead of its time! I think I may have to switch back when it comes out!!

What do you think will be next..?
a BUILT-IN CLOCK?

no way!!

to OP: I'm not making fun of you, if it came off like that. Vista just looks like XP with a few skins applied to it. I'll be sticking with OS X for a loooong time.

[treblah]

Never mind the Start Menu, did you see the awesome transparent shortcut icon? :rolleyes:

[edesignuk]

NO START BUTTON!?!?!?!

That does it, that's 99% of our users that will no longer be able to use their computer whenever we rollout Vista.

[Kobushi]

Oh my lord!

instead of a rectangular box, they're using a *gasp*
CIRCLE?

Vista is so far ahead of its time! I think I may have to switch back when it comes out!!

What do you think will be next..?
a BUILT-IN CLOCK?

no way!!


Hmmm....that kinda sarcasm showed through even without a :rolleyes:
Good Job!

so...what's with the little mountain scene? Is that particular picture some super unique feature of vista? Is it THE vista?

Still looks like XP to me.

[treblah]

NO START BUTTON!?!?!?!

That does it, that's 99% of our users that will no longer be able to use their computer whenever we rollout Vista.

Don't worry, there will be a classic theme for all the luddites. :D

[PlaceofDis]

Vista certainly doesn't look all that well done in my opinion, its ALL eyecandy, yes i know OS X has its share, but there are improvements and its a much more visually/intutitive system, Windows isnt, and just adding gloss here and there isn't going to help it.

[iMeowbot]

http://www.activewin.com/screenshots/vista/nov05ctp/
All righty, so what page are you all looking at with this orb stuff? All I see is a short feature list and some sort of mountain wallpaper BMP thingy :confused:

[ham_man]

NO START BUTTON!?!?!?!

That does it, that's 99% of our users that will no longer be able to use their computer whenever we rollout Vista.
Unfortunately, that is true...:eek:

[beg_ne]

If any of you missed the shots I dug these up on another site.

http://www.win-vista.net/modules.php?set_albumName=Vista5259&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

I especially like this shot.

http://www.win-vista.net/modules.php?set_albumName=Vista5259&id=7_G&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php

[mac-er]

http://www.activewin.com/screenshots/vista/nov05ctp/

New 'ORB' shaped start button in the new builds of Vista. Looks like the 'Start' menu has seen its last use in XP. I always through MS wanted to keep the START menu because it became so much associated with 'Windows'.

Ummm....there is still a start menu. All they did is change the UI of the button to copy the Apple UI more (e.g. Apple icon)

[Scarlet Fever]

wow that aqua theme really looks quite good. The Windows build team are very original and imaginative, aren't they :rolleyes:

theres something wrong with it, though. It looks strangely familiar...

[Aarow]

I'm not sure I like the transparent windows for everything.

[PCMacUser]

Don't get too excited kids, it ain't THAT similar! Looks can be deceiving.

[RobHague]

By death of the start menu btw, i was refering to the fact that it no long says 'Start' its just a Windows Logo...:)

[iMeowbot]

If any of you missed the shots I dug these up on another site.
Cool, thanks. So all they did was change the appearance of the start button, with no real interface change. Good, I still shudder thinking about how hard it was to wean people off the file and program manglers.

[mjstew33]

....just gets worse :rolleyes:

[ITASOR]

I hate to say it, but I think Vista looks cool and I'm going to buy it.

[runninmac]

*SHOCK* *GASP* ITASOR is now officaly shuned...

JK

I have to agree theres nothing wrong with Microsoft trying to copy OS X. Its just when they actually do it right Is when we have to worry. I think it looks pretty good nothin up there with OS X right now. I mean come on at least they could come up with cool looking side bars.

[Lacero]

Too bad the Start menu and the task bar can't disappear when not in use, or better yet, fades away like those lovely Microsoft Office palettes that fade in and out depending...


Here's to the Crazy Ones http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=35452 (http://www.uriah.com/apple-qt/movies/think-different.mov)

[mkrishnan]

*SHOCK* *GASP* ITASOR is now officaly shuned...

What does it mean to be shuned? :eek:

Hmmm...it is surprising that they released WM5 just now without making such a change there, though. I guess they were saving it for the flagship? Although, even in WM5, the prominence is on the logo and not the "Start."

[mkrishnan]

Too bad the Start menu and the task bar can't disappear when not in use, or better yet, fades away like those lovely Microsoft Office palettes that fade in and out depending...

Wait...is that a joke? You can make it hide just like the OS X dock hides, can't you? Or did they remove that feature at some point?

[Project]

lol, the recycle bin looks like a glass cup!

However, despite most of the interface being all eyecandy, that is still a worry, or should be for Apple. One of the nice things about OSX is it looks pretty. As hideous as transparent title bars in EVERY title bar is, it wil *look* cooler than the unified theme a la Mail/iTunes to the vast majority of regular PC users.

I expect Apple to really push the boat out with superfluous effects come Leopard.

[Abstract]

I have to agree theres nothing wrong with Microsoft trying to copy OS X. Its just when they actually do it right Is when we have to worry.

Why should "we" worry? I bought a Mac because it's better than Windows was. If Windows is better for everything I do, and is stable and safe as well, then I'd buy a Windows machine. I don't have to worry. I'm only a consumer.

Some people are loyal to Apple and hate Microsoft. I just like my PowerBook because it looks cool and runs well. I don't mind at all if Microsoft or anyone else made products better than Apple's because I want to get the best that my money can buy.

[Platform]

Well it looks better than XP :p

I will defenetly upgrade my PC :D .........Beating OS X Tiger....hell no :p :cool:

[russed]

i do hate to say it is starting to look better than the original images, but its not too hard is it!

http://www.winsupersite.com/images/reviews/lh_alpha_081.gif


hehe!

[dcv]

To me the UI just looks tacky. I always thought XP looked very 'Fisher Price' compared to 2000. They've gone a bit OTT with Vista; it really does look like an ugly skin with all the transparency and stuff. I certainly won't be tempted by it. As for the new round button... that's ugly too, they should have left it as 'Start'.

[betty02]

being a pc user, yeah i admit i will be getting vista when it comes out, to be hones with you i think they have tried to become 'mac style' with all the transparancy, they even have some of the things that look the same as the mac, e.g. the blue folders etc, go to google type in microsoft vista screenshots and then clikc on the microsoft link, theres a few on there, sitll no 'orb' button, i can just see the black start button?

[slu]

I won't buy it because I don't own a PC, but I think it looks pretty good. It is better than XP by a factor of 1000.

The questions to me are more about security and usability. If all it does is look better, but it still does not work safely and easily, then I don't care.

I don't use a Mac because OS X looks better; I use a Mac because OS X works better.

[steve_hill4]

Mac OS still works better, but Vista certainly has that same appeal to the average user over XP, that XP had over 98/ME, (which most home users were still on at the time). Looks may not mean everything, (and this is coming from somebody that always tries to go for looks in a woman short term, personality long term), but they attract the majority.

The problem is most look at Mac OS and go "wow", then start to look under the skin and realise it will cost them potentially more, (having old windows software, need to buy all again for Mac OS), will be a small leraning curve and it's harder to keep up to date, (e.g memory, we know how, they don't always). It's this that scares the average consumer, not the look and feel.

[~Shard~]

Although it's not saying much, I do like the look better than XP. ;)

Still though, I can't say I'm impressed. Hopefully just when MS is finally about to release their version of Tiger (aka Vista), Apple will beat them to the punch and release Leopard. :eek: :cool:

[furryrabidbunny]

If you head over there... he posted a ton of screenshots. The last few show how customizable vista will be... the user can pick the level of transparency and even the system wide color of vista. A side note... this is probably what the final will look like... minus some better icons... note the beta 2 logo on the botton right.
-edit-
heres the link http://winsupersite.com/showcase/winvista_5259_gallery_03.asp

[~Shard~]

And when is Vista finally supposed to be released?

[furryrabidbunny]

And when is Vista finally supposed to be released?
supposedly still the second half of '06. I dont understand why everyone gets on them about the delay... granted the orginal release time past already, but at least they aren't essentially rushing it too much (this is not keeping into account how inherently horrible windows is).

[~Shard~]

supposedly still the second half of '06. I dont understand why everyone gets on them about the delay... granted the orginal release time past already, but at least they aren't essentially rushing it too much (this is not keeping into account how inherently horrible windows is).

Thanks for that. And sorry, it just seems like MS has delayed Longhorn/Vista multiple times already, I've been hearing about it forever, and I wouldn't be surprised to see another delay as well. And yes, that's not necessarily a bad thing, as I'm sure they don't want to rush it, but come on already!!! ;)

[furryrabidbunny]

Thanks for that. And sorry, it just seems like MS has delayed Longhorn/Vista multiple times already, I've been hearing about it forever, and I wouldn't be surprised to see another delay as well. And yes, that's not necessarily a bad thing, as I'm sure they don't want to rush it, but come on already!!! ;)
i wouldn't be surprised if it came out a little earlier than expected. Apparently, it is basically feature frozen so they are just working out bugs. But the beta that started this post was apparently so bad they had to pull it... so there was no december build. Beta 2 (although from the wallpaper tag, this is beta 2) has been delayed. It will be interesting to see how the final product is, feature rich like they intended, or xp with a better look (and built in antivirus and antispyware software).
-edit-
they had to pull the november build, not the december.

[~Shard~]

i wouldn't be surprised if it came out a little earlier than expected. Apparently, it is basically feature frozen so they are just working out bugs. But the beta that started this post was apparently so bad they had to pull it... so there was no december build. Beta 2 (although from the wallpaper tag, this is beta 2) has been delayed. It will be interesting to see how the final product is, feature rich like they intended, or xp with a better look (and built in antivirus and antispyware software).

Cool, thanks for the information, I haven't been following it too closely. It will be "interesting" to try out once it is actually released - I'll have to decide whether to put it on my PC, or stick with XP.

[steve_hill4]

Thanks for that. And sorry, it just seems like MS has delayed Longhorn/Vista multiple times already, I've been hearing about it forever, and I wouldn't be surprised to see another delay as well.
Hence it earned the nickname Windows Longhaul.

I think I will consider it for my PC when it gets released, but I might have fully converted to Linux on my PC by then. I honestly can't see that many feature changes. Few nicer looking menus and buttons here and name changes there, but nothing that really stands out as being revolutionary. Okay, smart searching would have been one, if Spotlight hadn't beat them to it, but compare Vista to Tiger and you see it's already starting to look dated. MAny have argued these features should have been in XP, five years ago.

Go to the winsupersite and read the OSX vs Vista reviews and it is pretty damning for Microsoft. It will change between now and release, but I feel that the reviewer is pretty spot on.

[maestro55]

Have you seen the minimum system requirements for this? Wiki has them.

For Aero Glass (The eyecandy you are seeing)

This graphics mode adds support for 3D graphics, animation and visual special effects in addition to the features offered by Aero Express.

* Intended for mainstream and high-end graphics cards.
* At least 64 MB of graphics memory, 128 MB recommended, or 256 MB for 1600x1200+.
* At least 32 bits per pixel.
* 3D hardware acceleration with capabilities equal to DirectX 9.0c.
* A memory bandwidth of 2 GB/s, and as much 8 GB/s can be supported.
* Capable of drawing ~1.5 M triangles / second, one window being ~150 triangles.
* A graphics card that uses AGP 8X or PCI Express 16X 8-lane bus.
* DirectX 9.0c
* Windows Vista Display Driver Model (WVDDM) Drivers

It is likely that such a configuration will be an average configuration by Vista's release in 2006. During Vista's early alpha testing stages, the ATI Radeon 9800 Pro and the nVidia GeForce FX 5900 were the only cards compatible with Aero Glass. Since, support has been extended to most DirectX 9 Graphics cards. At this point, the nVidia FX family and up, and ATI Radeon 9600 and up are supported.

Microsoft has not released specific details of Windows Vista's hardware requirements; however, Microsoft has released some general Windows Vista Ready PC Hardware Guidelines for those wishing to upgrade to Windows Vista and have the full Aero Glass experience.

* CPU: PC systems with a modern 32/64 bit CPU. The recommended clock speed is at least 2.4 GHz at this point.

* RAM: PC systems with 512MB of RAM or more is recommended.
* GPU: PC systems with a DirectX9 GPU that is capable of supporting Windows Vista Display Driver Model (WVDDM). NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 or higher, ATI Radeon 9600 or higher, with at least 128 video RAM is recommended.
* Hard Drive: At least 1.5 Gigabytes, or higher, depending on the version of Windows Vista.
* A DVD-ROM might be required (Windows Vista installation package may be burned into a single DVD).


That is a lot of video ram, and a pretty fast processor to run something. Now given, I am a linux guy, and was dissapointed at the bulkiness of Tiger, Tiger will still run on systems not offering that much. The eyecandy comes at risk of the machine running slow. OS 10.2.8 is installed at school on the 400Mhz iMacs, 256megs of RAM, no problems at all. Windows XP Pro is sooo slow on my 500Mhz Thinkpad 390X with 256megs of RAM.

Sure computer software will need more to run as we get faster machines, but I won't be rushing out to buy an Operating System that won't run on my current hardware.

[furryrabidbunny]

one potential huge new feature that winsupersite talked about awhile is vista and its new ram capabilities. According to the site (during an old review of an old build) Vista will be able to turn any flash memory into ram.

[jlewis2k1]

anyone noticed windows mail? sounds kinda like Apple's Mail i mean are they trying to be simple like Apple or something

[steve_hill4]

anyone noticed windows mail? sounds kinda like Apple's Mail i mean are they trying to be simple like Apple or something
I still have a feeling this will eventually get renamed to Outlook Express. Microsoft have a record of changing names and minor details at the last minute. From the picture I saw, it also has a version number which suggests it is Outlook Express anyway. It states version 7.0, and we know that OE version numbers fit in with IE version numbers, (currently I have OE 6.0, but never bothered with any newer versions as I don't use it much/at all).

My guess it will be renamed.

[Dane D.]

What is a Start Button?;)
I guess PC users will never know what real computer are. I thank god for never learning how to use a PC. They seem so...confessing, un-finished, unfriendly. From what I have seen of VISTA, it looks like another attempt at stealing Macintosh's look.

[~Shard~]

What is a Start Button?;)
I guess PC users will never know what real computer are. I thank god for never learning how to use a PC. They seem so...confessing, un-finished, unfriendly. From what I have seen of VISTA, it looks like another attempt at stealing Macintosh's look.

Yep - it's essentially going to try to be Tiger. ;)

[NewbieNerd]

Maybe if Jobs gives us a hint of Leopard at MWSF or later, the Windows team will have to delay Vista again to rip off some more ideas. I kinda hope we don't see hardly anything of Leopard until it is out and then our common agreement that ``Vista probably sucks'' will just become ``Vista really sucks'' when Leopard and Vista are both shipping.

[~Shard~]

Maybe if Jobs gives us a hint of Leopard at MWSF or later, the Windows team will have to delay Vista again to rip off some more ideas. I kinda hope we don't see hardly anything of Leopard until it is out and then our common agreement that ``Vista probably sucks'' will just become ``Vista really sucks'' when Leopard and Vista are both shipping.

Although I have heard dates pointing toowards later in 2007 now for Leopard, I remember at WWDC Jobs threw up a graph indicating Leopard would be ready late '06 early '07, so I think it would really be something to release Leopard at the same time or just before Vista.

"Here is Vista, Microsoft's version of Tiger, only 2 years later. Oh, what's that? Yeah, Apple already released Tiger's successor - now you're waaaaay behind Microsoft!" And then the kicker, "Oh yeah, Leopard runs natively on PC as well. Say goodbye to your marketshare!" :eek: :cool: