Intel Mac mini To Evolve Into Digital Hub?

[EricNau]

What he told you is flat out WRONG! He's not even in the ball park. THe switch date will be a little later than that and not every signal has to be HD or Widescreen. It just has to be digital. Simple as that. THe ATSC signal includes a digital version of todays broadcast quality, but it also includes all the HD formats.
PT Barnum was SOOO right. :D :D :D
So I don't have to worry about this, because the Mini's DVR would support Digital anyways, right?

2009

and it would be if a certain percent of the US population can aquire a digital signal.
Did they change the date, because I remember reading January 1, 2007? :confused:
If I remember correctly, it was 85% of the local area. :)

[AidenShaw]

3.5" Hard Drive (lowest cost, highest density)
Actually, 2.5" and 1.8" drives are significantly higher density.

With 2.5" drives, you could fit 681GB in the volume of a 500GB 3.5" drive. (About 5.7 of the 120GB 2.5" drives.)

With 1.8" drives, 883GB would fit in the same volume. (11 of the 80GB 1.8" drives)

The 0.85" drives are lower density, you could fit 98 of the 4GB drives in the same volume as the 500GB, but you'd have a little less than 400GB of data.

[YunusEmre]

What's to say Apple can't license the program guide? They set up the box to work with the service. You can use it or not, and pay the money or not. Get three months free, after that you can use it as a media center with or without the Tivo-like features. Still pretty useful even if it's not a DVR.

Yes, that is possible, but someone has to pay for the guide. Yes, Apple can license it for a price, and may be roll it into .mac subsccription. I mentioned that because there are folks here who seem to think they can get Tivo service like features without paying for it. There is no such thing as free PVR, even though people out there claim you can get "free" DVRs from Sattellite operators and cable MSOs. The comsumer pays for it one way or the other. Anyhow as I said, unless the new mini is more of a settop box than it is a PC, it aint going to be a Tivo killer (I am getting wary of this term, Tivo-killer, everytime someone says that about a product it turns out to be a complete piece of junk, but I sure hope the new mini is not a jack of all trades, master of none).

Like I said mini acting as a DVR is not a good idea. I hope Apple does not bloat the mini with media center like hardware features. Because I think it is perfect the way it is to get folks to switch from MS windows to Mac. Apple can bring out a media center mac, which can be setup as a DVR + photo + music etc. server. I think we will see wireless iPods, that can stream audio/video before we see more video features in macs.

Looking at the future though, I see a different picture. When IPTV is mainstream, everything with broadband access and a hard disk can act as a DVR, and most likely they will.

[Lacero]

Wishful thinking, but not for another year at least. ;)
Not until October 2007, at the latest. ;)
Here's to the Crazy Ones http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=35452 (http://www.uriah.com/apple-qt/movies/think-different.mov)

[~Shard~]

Not until October 2007, at the latest. ;)

Yes, that would be another way to look at it... :cool:

[AidenShaw]

http://news.com.com/Intel+links+with+movie%2C+music+powers+for+ViiV+PCs/2100-1041_3-5975890.html

Intel links with movie, music powers for ViiV PCs

Next year, coming to a PC near you: easy access to French TV programs. And most any other entertainment link your heart might desire.

Intel is working with film distributors, music publishers, game developers and other entertainment companies to integrate their offerings into an upcoming line of upscale entertainment PCs branded with the Santa Clara, Calif.-based chip giant's ViiV technology.

Companies such as French TV giant Canal Plus and British Sky Broadcasting will provide desktop links that give consumers online access to their libraries of digital content, said Kevin Corbett, vice president and general manager of the Content Services Group in Intel's Digital Home Group.

Japan's Bellrock Media, meanwhile, will release made-for-the-Internet content via a link on ViiV PCs. With one or two clicks, consumers should be able to link to exclusive videos from this international talent agency.
...
The ViiV technology is Intel's attempt to expand the upscale segment of the home PC market. ViiV computers will sport Intel's top-of-the-line processors, the Windows XP Media Center Edition operating system and a host of technologies designed to take some of the pain out of trying to use a home computer as a digital video recorder or a stereo. Simplification will become one of ViiV's big selling points.

Maybe the new MiniMac will be a "ViiV Mac" !! :eek: :eek:

[rtdunham]

from an AP story released in the early morning hours:

SAN JOSE, Calif. (AP) - Looking to boost the number of computers whirring away in living rooms, Intel Corp. (INTC) on Wednesday unveiled its first list of companies whose products are expected to work with the chip maker's upcoming Viiv entertainment PC platform.

...Digital video recorder pioneer TiVo Inc. (TIVO) plans to use the technology to make it simple not only to transfer from TiVo set-top box to a Viiv PC but also allow for the transfer of shows on the PC to a TiVo. Viiv also will make it easier to move the content to a DVD or handheld player.

...Corbett declined to comment on whether Apple Computer Inc. (AAPL) is participating in Viiv. Earlier this year, Apple announced that it would start using Intel microprocessors in its Macintosh computers, and it also has released entertainment PC-like software for its latest iMacs.

PCs based on Viiv, which rhymes with "five," are expected to be available in a variety of forms, ranging from the size of a stereo system component to a more traditional PC tower. All will run Microsoft Corp. (MSFT)'s Windows Media Center operating system.

After the initial boot, Viiv owners will be able to put their PCs in a standby state with the press of a button and reawaken it instantly the same way. The machines also ship with 5.1 surround sound, with an option to upgrade to 7.1.

Viiv systems will include a configuration wizard to walk users through setting up network components using their remote control.
In addition, the systems will have a media server "engine" that reformats digital content for viewing on a variety of devices.
Viiv is expected to be available in the first quarter of next year.

[rtdunham]

this, from a Reuters article tues evening:

"TiVo in recent weeks has announced a raft of deals with Yahoo Inc. (YHOO), Apple Computer Inc (AAPL). and Sony to expand its reach and potential revenue base.

"TiVo expects soon to start testing a feature that will let subscribers transfer recorded television shows to Apple iPod players or Sony's PlayStation Portable gaming device."

is that correct? or would it be more accurate to say tivo announced negotiations with apple, which fell apart; separately, tivo says it'll extend its "tivo to go" feature to apple users?

terry

[lolex]

Hey !! Steve, thank you. I love to have these things.

[yoak]

This story has already made it to the front page of Norways biggest newspaper (online edition).
Here´s a link to fellow Norwegians or anyone else that master the language
http://forbruker.no/digital/nyheter/data/article1167319.ece

[Aggamemnon]

Perhaps this will hit the price point vacated by the eMac....

e for Entertainment, and use the Viiv platform?

[kyeblue]

Yes! Robert Cringely seems to think so as well.

http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20050120.html

The mac mini makes the perfect 'TiVo' like device. Coupled with iTunes and iLife and Front Row, it makes the next Mac mini a very viable consumer friendly device.

Wonder if it has enough power to handle HDTV format.

[kyeblue]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Think Secret (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0511macmini2.html) claims an Intel-based Mac mini will make an appearance at MacWorld San Francisco in January. Expected to be included in the update, other than the move to Intel processor:

• Front Row 2.0
• "TiVo-Killer" DVR application
• Built-In iPod Dock
• Possible move to 3.5" hard drive

Whether the DVR capability comes standard on the mini or as an add-on module is unknown. According to Think Secret, the built-in iPod dock was expected on the first mini, but later scrapped. The inclusion of a larger 3.5" hard drive would indicate the form factor for the mini would increase in size to accomodate it.

With my mac mini less than one-year old, how could I convince my wife that i need a new gadget.

[pjkelnhofer]

... There is no such thing as free PVR, even though people out there claim you can get "free" DVRs from Sattellite operators and cable MSOs. The comsumer pays for it one way or the other...

Actually, there are at least two: MythTV (http://www.mythtv.org) and FreeVo (http://www.freevo.org).

[AidenShaw]

Wonder if it has enough power to handle HDTV format.
It would arrive stillborn if it didn't.

Any non-HD capable media center wouldn't be viable at this point in time - at least in the US market where digital broadcasting and HD are being phased in by mandate.

There are quite a few HD-PVR and media center devices available - like the HP Media Center PC mentioned a while back (the HP can simultaneously record three video feeds - one HD and two standard). This proves that dedicated hardware codecs are cheap enough for mass market systems.

ATI sells a video card for PCs with real-time HD recording (http://www.ati.com/products/hdtvwonder/specs.html) - it's $119 and the minimum CPU requirement is a 1.3 GHz Celeron...

[AtHomeBoy_2000]

It would arrive stillborn if it didn't.

Any non-HD capable media center wouldn't be viable at this point in time - at least in the US market where digital broadcasting and HD are being phased in by mandate.

Why not offer 2 "Mac Media Center" versions? One with HD capacity, one without? THere are a LOT of people who dont have HD TVs that want a DVR, but why would I pay extra for a larger hardrive and extra HD hardware when I dont need it?

[Lacero]

Wonder if it has enough power to handle HDTV format.
I think so. HDTV decoding could be hardwired into a special DSP chip designed to do it efficiently, or allow the GPU to handle the decoding/encoding.
Here's to the Crazy Ones http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=35452 (http://www.uriah.com/apple-qt/movies/think-different.mov)

[bommai]

Yes, that is possible, but someone has to pay for the guide. Yes, Apple can license it for a price, and may be roll it into .mac subsccription. I mentioned that because there are folks here who seem to think they can get Tivo service like features without paying for it. There is no such thing as free PVR, even though people out there claim you can get "free" DVRs from Sattellite operators and cable MSOs. The comsumer pays for it one way or the other. Anyhow as I said, unless the new mini is more of a settop box than it is a PC, it aint going to be a Tivo killer (I am getting wary of this term, Tivo-killer, everytime someone says that about a product it turns out to be a complete piece of junk, but I sure hope the new mini is not a jack of all trades, master of none).

Like I said mini acting as a DVR is not a good idea. I hope Apple does not bloat the mini with media center like hardware features. Because I think it is perfect the way it is to get folks to switch from MS windows to Mac. Apple can bring out a media center mac, which can be setup as a DVR + photo + music etc. server. I think we will see wireless iPods, that can stream audio/video before we see more video features in macs.

Looking at the future though, I see a different picture. When IPTV is mainstream, everything with broadband access and a hard disk can act as a DVR, and most likely they will.

You are the one that is mistaken. All entertainment PCs have free TV Guide. I just bought a Sony HD-DVR that has free TVGuide. eyeTV 500 uses TitanTV as free program guide.

[YunusEmre]

Actually, there are at least two: MythTV (http://www.mythtv.org) and FreeVo (http://www.freevo.org).

Actually they are not. I'd not class them as a DVR. A DVR is one an 8 year old can set up and grandmother can use. You need to be a geek to set those up and keep them upto date. Not to mention the fact that it uses a PC. They are not going to be mainstream unless someone takes them and turns them into a settop box you can buy from Frys or Best Buys. And who is going to do that without wanting some profit and money to keep the business going?

[ccrandall77]

Actually they are not. I'd not class them as a DVR. A DVR is one an 8 year old can set up and grandmother can use. You need to be a geek to set those up and keep them upto date. Not to mention the fact that it uses a PC. They are not going to be mainstream unless someone takes them and turns them into a settop box you can buy from Frys or Best Buys. And who is going to do that without wanting some profit and money to keep the business going?

Ease of use is irrelevant as to whether or not a product is or is not a DVR.

Besides, KnoppMyth isn't all that hard to install.

[YunusEmre]

You are the one that is mistaken. All entertainment PCs have free TV Guide. I just bought a Sony HD-DVR that has free TVGuide. eyeTV 500 uses TitanTV as free program guide.

Good luck with the Sony HD-DVR. I wonder if the content can be viewed on a different device? Watch out, it probably has a built in camera spying your every move :D But, yeah it is a cablecard ready DVR. It can be used on a cable network. So you cannot use it with your sattellite feed. It costs somewhere between $600-$800. So I think you ARE paying for the guide.

The other you mentioned is not a DVR, just a program. You need to tie up a personal computer to have one of those, so it is not free. Can you say, I am going to give my mother/dad a DVR, heck it is free? No, you cannot. You'd have to find a PC that can handle the work and install software on it and be on the support call to them day and night. I'd rather give them a box that is designed to be a DVR in the first place.

[YunusEmre]

Ease of use is irrelevant as to whether or not a product is or is not a DVR.

Besides, KnoppMyth isn't all that hard to install.

OK, one more time. I am talking about mainstream (becaue the term used was Tivo-killer). To kill Tivo you need to be mainstream. It works out of the box, you do not need to be a geek to install setup and use.

[cr2sh]

I think I'm out of touch with mainstream America... cuz as a total tech nerd, I have NO interest in a DVR.

Who has time to watch that much TV?

Give me a goddamn tablet so I can work more efficiently!

[ftaok]

I'm not sure if this was mentioned yet (I only got through the first 5 pages), but to everyone complaining about a possible size increase, I have this to point out.

The current mini does not fit in well with existing A/V equipment. Most people will have a cable/sat box, a DVD player, maybe a VCR, possibly an A/V receiver. All of these devices are about 12" to 16" wide and about as tall as a mini. So if Apple were to create a Media Mac, they will probably keep it the same height as the mini, but allow it to grow in width. This would make the mini fit in an entertainment center in a much more aestetically pleasing manner.

ft

[pjkelnhofer]

Actually they are not. I'd not class them as a DVR. A DVR is one an 8 year old can set up and grandmother can use. You need to be a geek to set those up and keep them upto date. Not to mention the fact that it uses a PC. They are not going to be mainstream unless someone takes them and turns them into a settop box you can buy from Frys or Best Buys. And who is going to do that without wanting some profit and money to keep the business going?

That hardly determines what whether or not something is a DVR. The theoretical Apple DVR is going to use a PC so how would it qualify. I don't think my post was in response to them being mainstream, it was in response to you saying there is no such thing as a free PVR.

[JDOG_]

So if Apple were to create a Media Mac, they will probably keep it the same height as the mini, but allow it to grow in width. This would make the mini fit in an entertainment center in a much more aestetically pleasing manner.

ft

So like an iHome (http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000110026534/) then right? ;)

[ftaok]

So like an iHome (http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000110026534/) then right? ;)
Exactly, except it wouldn't be made out of cardboard. ;)

[Aeolius]

If it's going to have an iPod dock built in, it HAS to be bigger, just to accommodate the extra depth a recessed dock would require.

Something like THIS, perhaps? :D
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8f/Pippinfront.jpg/800px-Pippinfront.jpg

[LimeiBook86]

Something like THIS, perhaps? :D
<snip>
That's the Apple/Bandi Pippin gaming system heh, the Intel Mac Mini "Tivo-Killer" will be much more powerful than that old thing...although I'd love to play around with one. They're worth quite a lot ;)

[joemama]

Yes, that is possible, but someone has to pay for the guide. Yes, Apple can license it for a price, and may be roll it into .mac subsccription. I mentioned that because there are folks here who seem to think they can get Tivo service like features without paying for it. There is no such thing as free PVR, even though people out there claim you can get "free" DVRs from Sattellite operators and cable MSOs. The comsumer pays for it one way or the other. Anyhow as I said, unless the new mini is more of a settop box than it is a PC, it aint going to be a Tivo killer (I am getting wary of this term, Tivo-killer, everytime someone says that about a product it turns out to be a complete piece of junk, but I sure hope the new mini is not a jack of all trades, master of none).


I just don't understnad why people think there has to be a monthly charge. Isn't the guide nothing more than a database of times, channels and whats on? Please excuse my ignorance, but how many people does it take to update this? It seems to me the expensive part would be pushing out to redundant servers so people can download the info. And wouldn't this be a small (text) file, far less in size than say a song preview? Isn't this more of a bandwidth issue, which Apple has plenty of?

Also, perhaps Apple expects to make up the costs of the dvr guide with itunes downloads. I thikn we take for granted we are mac fans. Let's not forgot the millions of people who still have yet to download a song!

Finally, if there is a cost, I think you will see Apple put it in .mac. If this "media center" is for songs and photos and sending/uploading images to a website, a .mac subscription will be necessary, or Apple will make it so.

[pjkelnhofer]

I think I'm out of touch with mainstream America... cuz as a total tech nerd, I have NO interest in a DVR.

Who has time to watch that much TV?

Give me a goddamn tablet so I can work more efficiently!

The beauty of the DVR is that you can watch what you want to watch when you want to watch it! For example, I work Sunday nights, but get to watch Family Guy (reference your evil monkey avatar) on Monday or Tuesday or whenever I have a chance!

[rdowns]

With my mac mini less than one-year old, how could I convince my wife that i need a new gadget.

Use my rule, 2 new pairs of shoes for each gadget I buy.

[Lynxpro]

It has a slow UI, really dumb "which one should I record?" function and horrible Mac compatibility. I'm tired of having to run the .tivo files through a DRM-stripper under Virtual PC just to watch the stupid TV program on my Treo.


Are you using Direct Show Dump? I love that program. Love it. Of course, it would probably work better if you picked up a cheap Windows PC and used it strictly as a TiVo-To-Go dedicated device... Then transfer those files over to your Mac and then run Handbrake on them.

[Lynxpro]

I'm really curious about this "TiVo-Killer" app. I currently use the Comcast DVR (which stinks by the way) and was considering TiVo or ReplayTV. If Apple is coming out with something however I might just hold off and see how it compares.

ReplayTV is a zombie in that it does not know its dead...it just walks around looking to eat more customer money before someone sneaks up on it and sets it on fire. The platform is on its third corporate parent; a corporate parent named D&M Holdings (Denon) which recently sold off its intellectual property it held in Rio and set the product line out to pasture.

Replay has something like 200,000 customers. TiVo has 4 million customers yet people still claim the company is dying. So wait and see what Apple has planned in January (if anything) and if nothing materializes, buy the standalone HD TiVo Series3 that will be hitting the market in Q1 2006. Or, you could wait until mid-2006 and upgrade your Comcast HD capable DVR (as long as its the Motorola) with the TiVo OS when it becomes available for a fee.

And in the meantime, there are ways of extracting the content on that Comcast DVR of yours via the Firewire port to your Mac or PC. I'm sure there are plenty of other users here who could direct you in the right direction with that endeavour.

[Lynxpro]

As I read more about the "Tivo-killer" aspects, I'm starting to wonder whether this is a vaporware rumor, designed to force Tivo back to the table. Tivo obviously wanted too much for the company. And then when Apple told them to step off, they antagonized them with the video iPod transfers, for PCs only


You really think the negotiations were for an Apple takeover? I mean, I'd love to see that since Apple's economies-of-scale would bring the hardware costs that keep TiVo from being profitable (as an independent company) would disappear overnight, but I did not think the negotiations were for a friendly Apple acquisition.

Apple does not need to acquire TiVo in a friendly manner. Apple has ample amounts of money to plunk down for a hostile takeover (which wouldn't cost much more), but maybe they would prefer a friendly acquisition to stave off a bidding war by Microsoft, Yahoo, Time Warner, or Google.

If Apple simply bought up TiVo, the intellectual property of ReplayTV from D&M Holdings, and Hauppage, they'd own the PVR business. Just think how many consumer electronics/cable/satellite companies are violating that chunk of IP today.

[Lynxpro]

I currently have dish network dvr. Its great for the sheer fact that it will search the guide and record all the programs that are shown for a preticular search query. It also allows dual input from the dish so you can watch live tv while you record from another channel. The only problem is that the HD is small. Unlike TiVo, you can skip commercials.


You can skip commercials with TiVo, thank you very much. And with TiVo, you can export your saved programs to your computer, unlike the Dish Network wanna-be DVR as well as many other well-thought-out features that makes a TiVo a TiVo. TiVo is also suing Dish (ahem, Echostar) for patent infringement. The Dish Player is Shasta Cola to TiVo's Coca-Cola.


Maybe since they have a working relationship with cingular (whose parent is SBC) Sbc has a working relationship with dish network, so the ability to put dish acces card functionality could be easy.......but, I'm dreamin.


The relationship between SBC/Cingular (soon to be simply known as AT&T) and Dish Network is an open marriage of convenience. It is only meant to keep SBC residential telephone customers from signing up with the likes of Comcast to get broadband and television service. SBC revenue-shares with Dish for each customer they bring to the table. Once SBC completes their IPTV project, the relationship with Dish will be severed.

[Lynxpro]

Everybody keeps saying: Apple can't sell a DVR, they want to sell video on demand.

If Apple sold a broadband-enabled DVR that easily could acquire HD content directly and for a reasonable fee, they'd sell millions of set-top boxes. And each one of those purchases probably would mean that one less house would sign up for cable television or satellite television and instead only sign up for cable/DSL because we'd finally have total a la carte pricing under such a scheme. That would mean death to the padded cable television bill for stuff you don't want like the BET Jazz or ESPN-The-Ocho.

[EricNau]

If Apple sold a broadband-enabled DVR that easily could acquire HD content directly and for a reasonable fee, they'd sell millions of set-top boxes. And each one of those purchases probably would mean that one less house would sign up for cable television or satellite television and instead only sign up for cable/DSL because we'd finally have total a la carte pricing under such a scheme. That would mean death to the padded cable television bill for stuff you don't want like the BET Jazz or ESPN-The-Ocho.

Apple would never do that. They are a computer Hardware/Software comapny, not a cable comapny.

[Multimedia]

With my mac mini less than one-year old, how could I convince my wife that i need a new gadget.By selling the one you have for a hundred or two less than the new one and then rolling over the sale price for the new one for only one or two hundred more.:p

[~Shard~]

Apple would never do that. They are a computer Hardware/Software comapny, not a cable comapny.

Exactly, they're just a hardware/software company, they'd never ever go into anything to do with TV - or music for that matter. :rolleyes: :p :cool:

[Multimedia]

Why not offer 2 "Mac Media Center" versions? One with HD capacity, one without? THere are a LOT of people who dont have HD TVs that want a DVR, but why would I pay extra for a larger hardrive and extra HD hardware when I dont need it?Because HD is in the air and you can display it on your Mac. You don't need a HDTV to enjoy its advantages. What is coming in off the air is amazing and once you get a taste of it, you will insist on having it for the rest of your life.:p

[Multimedia]

You are the one that is mistaken. All entertainment PCs have free TV Guide. I just bought a Sony HD-DVR that has free TVGuide. eyeTV 500 uses TitanTV as free program guide.As an owner of eyeTV, I would like to note that the integration between it for FREE and eyeTV 500 is amazing. Moreover, I would like to recommend TitanTV.com to anyone who wants to know what's on. You can totally customize it for any set of channels you want to pay attention to and delete those you never view. Anyone who is unfamiliar with TitanTV.com owes it to themselves to check it out. You will find it among the best ways to keep on top of the latest channel choices you want to know. I am sure that YunusEmre, who thought we didn't have FREE channel guides, simply never googled "TV Channel Guide" before. TitanTV.com RULES for me.:) :p

[skellener]

There will be no "TiVo-killer DVR" from Apple. Period.

Expect more downloadable content from the iTunes Music Store.

[YunusEmre]

I just don't understnad why people think there has to be a monthly charge. Isn't the guide nothing more than a database of times, channels and whats on? Please excuse my ignorance, but how many people does it take to update this? It seems to me the expensive part would be pushing out to redundant servers so people can download the info. And wouldn't this be a small (text) file, far less in size than say a song preview? Isn't this more of a bandwidth issue, which Apple has plenty of?

Also, perhaps Apple expects to make up the costs of the dvr guide with itunes downloads. I thikn we take for granted we are mac fans. Let's not forgot the millions of people who still have yet to download a song!

Finally, if there is a cost, I think you will see Apple put it in .mac. If this "media center" is for songs and photos and sending/uploading images to a website, a .mac subscription will be necessary, or Apple will make it so.

What's on a channel on a given time ultimately comes form the network where the TV program orginates. If you want to cook up your own guide you need connection with all the networks that your DVR supports, nationwide. Or you pay fees to one of the existing TV guide providers, which is what Tivo does.

You need a business model that will sustain itself and make money for its shareholders. You cannot do that unless you charge for the service you provide. The TV guide is just one part of it, there are many other aspects of it that cost money, such as royalties you have to pay to third party etc. Someone needs to pay for all that.

As for rolling it into .mac, I said that is possible, but Apple is not in the business of TV, they can get into it. But they would have to provide the same service without rest of .mac subscription (not all DVR users will want to have the other features). And I am not sure they transition to that so quickly.

Anyway, the bottom line, one more time is that whatever Apple brings out, it aint gonna be a Tivo-killer.

[YunusEmre]

...

Apple does not need to acquire TiVo in a friendly manner. Apple has ample amounts of money to plunk down for a hostile takeover (which wouldn't cost much more), but maybe they would prefer a friendly acquisition to stave off a bidding war by Microsoft, Yahoo, Time Warner, or Google.

...



Well Tivo has what's called a poison pill. So it would not be so easy to acquire Tivo by hostile takeover. But in any case, hostile or not, if Tivo is up for sale there would have to be a bidding war, in the open, or behind closed doors otherwise the shareholders would not be so happy ;)

[EricNau]

Exactly, they're just a hardware/software company, they'd never ever go into anything to do with TV - or music for that matter. :rolleyes: :p :cool:

There is a big difference between downloadable online music and being a cable company. They might start selling TV shows, but that can't/won't replace cable.

I do see your point though.

[camomac]

As an owner of eyeTV, I would like to note that the integration between it for FREE and eyeTV 500 is amazing. Moreover, I would like to recommend TitanTV.com to anyone who wants to know what's on. You can totally customize it for any set of channels you want to pay attention to and delete those you never view. Anyone who is unfamiliar with TitanTV.com owes it to themselves to check it out. You will find it among the best ways to keep on top of the latest channel choices you want to know. I am sure that YunusEmre, who thought we didn't have FREE channel guides, simply never googled "TV Channel Guide" before. TitanTV.com RULES for me.:) :p

wow, thanks for that!

[itcheroni]

Okay, so I just ordered a mini today from Amazon. I was waiting for January, oh so close, but after all these rumors, decided it wasn't worth the wait. All this DVR talk made me realize there won't be anything I would want from the new minis except a for a faster processor and a better graphics card. But if the price and form factor might increase to accomodate DVR capabilities, then I'd rather buy the current mini. I'm buying it as a computer, why would I want it to be bigger and more expensive?

[Multimedia]

Okay, so I just ordered a mini today from Amazon. I was waiting for January, oh so close, but after all these rumors, decided it wasn't worth the wait. All this DVR talk made me realize there won't be anything I would want from the new minis except a for a faster processor and a better graphics card. But if the price and form factor might increase to accomodate DVR capabilities, then I'd rather buy the current mini. I'm buying it as a computer, why would I want it to be bigger and more expensive?
It won't be significantly bigger and it won't be more expensive. :rolleyes:

[Multimedia]

What's on a channel on a given time ultimately comes form the network where the TV program orginates. If you want to cook up your own guide you need connection with all the networks that your DVR supports, nationwide. Or you pay fees to one of the existing TV guide providers, which is what Tivo does.

You need a business model that will sustain itself and make money for its shareholders. You cannot do that unless you charge for the service you provide. The TV guide is just one part of it, there are many other aspects of it that cost money, such as royalties you have to pay to third party etc. Someone needs to pay for all that.

As for rolling it into .mac, I said that is possible, but Apple is not in the business of TV, they can get into it. But they would have to provide the same service without rest of .mac subscription (not all DVR users will want to have the other features). And I am not sure they transition to that so quickly.

Anyway, the bottom line, one more time is that whatever Apple brings out, it aint gonna be a Tivo-killer.You know you are one uninformed member YunusEmre. TitanTV.com is not only FREE, it is totally integrated with eyeTV tuners and any other system you interface it with. :rolleyes:

[duklaprague]

Sorry I didn't understand.

While your back catalog point is valid, if someone had two buttons that said "Record Lost Tonight for Free" and "Buy Lost Tomorrow for $2", then most everyone would choose to record. I don't mean to start a flamewar here, I'ts just my opinion. But I bet Apple has something up their sleeves that we don't know a bout- the pieces don't quite connect.

But surely that's the current situation? We already can hit that record button - and yet they have introduced episodes of Lost to ITMS.

If people are going to record programmes, then why not sell them the kit to record those programmes on to? Especially i it does a whole heap of other stuff too, with Apple's trademark elegance - FrontRow running on your TV, iTunes playing through your stereo.

And offers you the chance to buy current episodes you nmay have missed for whatever reason, along with a great back catalogue that is cheaper, more convenient than buying DVDs.

I'd be there like a shot! (Funds permitting)

Iain :)

[duklaprague]

Everybody keeps saying: Apple can't sell a DVR, they want to sell video on demand.

???

Can we please all step back a second here...Apple doesn't want to sell videos. They don't want to sell music either. They want to sell iPods! If this HTPC stuff works, they'll also have a way to push more mac minis.

Agree completely - currently I'd have no need for a mac mini - but add in FR, and wi-fi gubbins and I'm haf way there. Add in PVR functionality, and its the PVR I've been waiting for that I know is going to do everything I want (PVR, media centre in one), and I'm there.

Iain

[~Shard~]

There is a big difference between downloadable online music and being a cable company. They might start selling TV shows, but that can't/won't replace cable.

I do see your point though.

I agree too, just having some fun with ya. ;) Of course, I still say "never say never" when it comes to Apple. :cool:

[ja0912]

x

[thunderclap]

Replay has something like 200,000 customers. TiVo has 4 million customers yet people still claim the company is dying. So wait and see what Apple has planned in January (if anything) and if nothing materializes, buy the standalone HD TiVo Series3 that will be hitting the market in Q1 2006. Or, you could wait until mid-2006 and upgrade your Comcast HD capable DVR (as long as its the Motorola) with the TiVo OS when it becomes available for a fee.

Thanks for the information, Lynxpro. You've been most helpful. The Comcast DVR is really annoying me these days so I'm looking forward to seeing what Apple is going to do.

[finchna]

For this to work it needs to be able to drive a screen that is 1900x1080 so that it can run true HD content. Right now that's not possible--it would need a major graphic driver update--and those cards are bigger than the mini.




Think Secret (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0511macmini2.html) claims an Intel-based Mac mini will make an appearance at MacWorld San Francisco in January. Expected to be included in the update, other than the move to Intel processor:

• Front Row 2.0
• "TiVo-Killer" DVR application
• Built-In iPod Dock
• Possible move to 3.5" hard drive

Whether the DVR capability comes standard on the mini or as an add-on module is unknown. According to Think Secret, the built-in iPod dock was expected on the first mini, but later scrapped. The inclusion of a larger 3.5" hard drive would indicate the form factor for the mini would increase in size to accomodate it.

[YunusEmre]

You know you are one uninformed member YunusEmre. TitanTV.com is not only FREE, it is totally integrated with eyeTV tuners and any other system you interface it with. :rolleyes:

Well, I think you have missed my point. Explain to me how your grandmother is going to use EyeTV? Where in the living room is the EyeTV going to live? How many current Tivo users will ditch their Tivos and go buy a mac and swtich to EyeTV to kill Tivo?

[Cooknn]

If people are going to record programmes, then why not sell them the kit to record those programmes on to? Especially i it does a whole heap of other stuff too, with Apple's trademark elegance - FrontRow running on your TV, iTunes playing through your stereo.320x240 won't look very good on a TV. Apple needs to pump up the pixels big time - and as another user mentioned before, the Mac Mini might not have enough room for the horsepower necessary to handle this task. It seems as though the future of TV is on the bleeding edge here though, that's for sure. Baby steps for now and someday we may just be able to watch what we want when we want and pay ala carte.

[Lacero]

320x240 won't look very good on a TV. Apple needs to pump up the pixels big time - and as another user mentioned before, the Mac Mini might not have enough room for the horsepower necessary to handle this task.
Going to DVD & TV resolution of 640x480 would require 4 times the storage space, processing power, bandwidth or time it takes to download. The iPod videos are definitely not for TV viewing but portable iPod video. The mac mini is capable of decoding H.264 at 640x480 resolution. It might choke on 720P H.264, but I still think Apple can further optimize H.264. It ain't where it should be, IMO.


Here's to the Crazy Ones http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=35452 (http://www.uriah.com/apple-qt/movies/think-different.mov)

[~Shard~]

320x240 won't look very good on a TV. Apple needs to pump up the pixels big time - and as another user mentioned before, the Mac Mini might not have enough room for the horsepower necessary to handle this task. It seems as though the future of TV is on the bleeding edge here though, that's for sure. Baby steps for now and someday we may just be able to watch what we want when we want and pay ala carte.

I agree - I think this whole thing is still in its infancy, and we're just getting started - we can't expect too much right off the bat. Patrience is required, and as you say, baby steps for now.

[Scarpad]

Going to DVD & TV resolution of 640x480 would require 4 times the storage space, processing power, bandwidth or time it takes to download. The iPod videos are definitely not for TV viewing but portable iPod video. The mac mini is capable of decoding H.264 at 640x480 resolution. It might choke on 720P H.264, but I still think Apple can further optimize H.264. It ain't where it should be, IMO.


Here's to the Crazy Ones http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=35452 (http://www.uriah.com/apple-qt/movies/think-different.mov)

It absolutely will choke. I've tried a few 720P HD Trailers and they become a slideshow mess. If they are to create this Digitial Hub and they are forward thinking they will need better Processing power a G4 ain't gonna Do it. They absolutely need a Better Video Chip as the 9200 in the current mini is already way out of date. BTW right now I do all my 4x3 Ipod Video encodes at 512x352 and my Widescreen encodes at 624x352 at a 1500 bitrate Mpeg4. The Ipod will scale them and they at least look decent if I want to play them out to my TV

[Lynxpro]

Well Tivo has what's called a poison pill. So it would not be so easy to acquire Tivo by hostile takeover. But in any case, hostile or not, if Tivo is up for sale there would have to be a bidding war, in the open, or behind closed doors otherwise the shareholders would not be so happy ;)

You think long-suffering TiVo shareholders would bicker over the prospect of swapping their TiVo shares out for Apple shares? :)

[JW8725]

So is anyone gonna try their hand at photoshopping what this new one could look like?? Lets be having it then???

[viscous]

The upgrades sound nice, but wait a minute! A 3.5" hard drive? No, this is not required in my opinion. This would just make the Mac mini a larger system and I don't want that. Its size is perfect how it is. I realize it wouldn't be that much larger, but still... anyone agree with me on this? There are 7200RPM notebook drives out there; so utilize them! As for the built-in iPod dock, that sounds very nice. I don't want it to mess up the style of the mini, though. I hope Apple implements it with stealth in mind. Maybe an "eject" button of some sort reveals the Dock whenever you want it showing. That'd be pretty nice. :) And FrontRow 2.0 would be excellent! The Mac mini is the perfect HTPC. And with FrontRow included, that would be perfect. Oh please be true... I'm just a little concerned about increasing the size of the system.

An audio/video Mac needs to fit in with the rest of the audio video gear and be of the same form factor. Make it the same size as a DVD player with a huge hard drive for TIVOing.

[GFLPraxis]

Interesting but unlikely thought; what if the Mac Mini became one of the first products on the market with an onboard MPEG-4/H.264 decoder? Thus, it could still play video in HD without needing that much power.

[duklaprague]

320x240 won't look very good on a TV. Apple needs to pump up the pixels big time - and as another user mentioned before, the Mac Mini might not have enough room for the horsepower necessary to handle this task. It seems as though the future of TV is on the bleeding edge here though, that's for sure. Baby steps for now and someday we may just be able to watch what we want when we want and pay ala carte.

fair enough - the assumption was that it would be suffiecient quality to watch on tv.

I think they've seriously dropped a ball with the videos especially - I could have seen myself buying a few, if i'd then been able to make my own compilations on DVD.

I can after all buy music and make my own compilation CDs (should I wish), so why not the same with videos/DVDs?

What I'd like really is to be able to do is have Front Row on a mac mini connected to the TV - for previewing movies or slideshows and playing music, with the remote. Even being able to call up the movie trailers from Front Row (fantastic UI) and watch them on the tv.

If the mac mini (or whatever it ended up being) could also act as a PVR with Apple's trademark slickness and eye for good design, then all the better.

But like you say, one step at a time - but surely that's the direction its all heading in?

Iain

[mdavey]

Interesting but unlikely thought; what if the Mac Mini became one of the first products on the market with an onboard MPEG-4/H.264 decoder? Thus, it could still play video in HD without needing that much power.

I think that is pretty likely, actually.

[Epicurus]

I can see the Mac mini becoming the driving purpose behind Apple selling higher resolution video content. The "video for iPod" seems nice, but the iPod will forever be a music storage device. Having Apple negotiate with all the major video media companies to get iPod content is just one step in the direction of full movie downloads. Sadly, the iPod will never the the device of choice for HD content, even with a bigger screen. A Mac mini, placed in the living room, with "DVR-type" features seems like a much better candidate.

Imagine a Mac mini with 2-4 massive hard drives (probably losing its "brick" shape to look more like a thin Sony DVD player, but with the added benefit of up to 2TB of memory), TV out (either as DVI or HDMI since I can't see Apple moving away from digital signals), hardware driven H.264 encoding, and a nice remote (they might even get away with the current IR one if they add one or two more buttons and possibly Bluetooth). Such a mini would be capable of dominating the DVR market. To get Apple a slightly bigger piece of the pie, they could sell movies online in a dual-format: HD for the Mac mini and "iPod-sized" for the video-capable iPods. Someone at Apple has to be thinking of a way to use one content delivery service (like movies) to drive two hardware purchases (mini and iPod). Then the "halo" effect kicks in. You've already got one Mac in your house, and an iPod, so why not get a iBook too. If AirPort gets a much needed upgrade and can stream H.264 content from the mini to any other Macs in the house, all the better. This would even enforce the concept of the mini as a movie storage device just like the iPod is for music. :D

[Multimedia]

Well, I think you have missed my point. Explain to me how your grandmother is going to use EyeTV? Where in the living room is the EyeTV going to live? How many current Tivo users will ditch their Tivos and go buy a mac and swtich to EyeTV to kill Tivo?
1. Grandmother is not going to use EyeTV
2. It's not in the living room, it's attached to where your Mac is and you watch on your Mac.
3. None.

I thought you were saying there is no such thing as a free web based programming service. I guess I did miss your point. Which is what?

[minimax]

I think everybody needs a reality check here.
The mac mini just isnt suited for a PVR like function at the moment. Not only does it miss the room for the necessary connections on the back, is the HD too small, but a lot of people will want a mini without these PVR like functions that will add at least $100 to the price.
Also, a PVR like device need not be so small as a desktop system.
my advice: check ars (http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20051129-5643.html) a bit more :p

[cr2sh]

I think everybody needs a reality check here.
The mac mini just isnt suited for a PVR like function at the moment. Not only does it miss the room for the necessary connections on the back, is the HD too small, but a lot of people will want a mini without these PVR like functions that will add at least $100 to the price.
Also, a PVR like device need not be so small as a desktop system.
my advice: check ars (http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20051129-5643.html) a bit more :p

Just when this thread, I thought, had reached the brink of wastelandedness ... someone demands a reality check. Maybe we could start a web-poll urging Apple to release a DVR mini.

Those really work you know.

The mac mini, with a terrabyte of storage... you do realize that 13 times the storage it currently has? :cool:

I'm ashamed to be subscribed to this thread. :o

[minimax]

I wouldnt say a DVR Mac is out of the question, but a Mac mini DVR really is.
Personally I wouldnt mind the mini growing a bit to accommodate a larger HD and more USB ports, but I don't need DVR functions on my desktop.
If Apple *would* create such a device, an entirely new product just makes more sense

[YunusEmre]

1. Grandmother is not going to use EyeTV
2. It's not in the living room, it's attached to where your Mac is and you watch on your Mac.
3. None.

I thought you were saying there is no such thing as a free web based programming service. I guess I did miss your point. Which is what?

There may be free TV guide on the net, used by consumers directly. But as soon as you make it part of a product you have to pay someone for it. In case you have not followed it, my beef is with "Tivo-killer" part of the story. Apple is not in the business of TV, not like Tivo is (at least not yet), Apple likes to charge you $1.99 for a downloadable TV show that you probably already get as part of your Cable/Sat subscription. I am saying whatever Apple comes out with aint gonna kill Tivo. I hope this makes it clearer for you to understand my point. My earlier posts explains other factors why I think the way I do.

[YunusEmre]

You think long-suffering TiVo shareholders would bicker over the prospect of swapping their TiVo shares out for Apple shares? :)

Perhaps not the ordinary shareholder, but those who hold the poison pill might ;)

[ddrueckhammer]

I think everybody needs a reality check here.
The mac mini just isnt suited for a PVR like function at the moment. Not only does it miss the room for the necessary connections on the back, is the HD too small, but a lot of people will want a mini without these PVR like functions that will add at least $100 to the price.
Also, a PVR like device need not be so small as a desktop system.
my advice: check ars (http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20051129-5643.html) a bit more :p

I think you are right...The new mac mini isn't going to be a DVR it is going to be a set-top box with DVI-out that can play streaming video content purchased via an ITunes Media Store using the front row interface and the apple remote. Check out the trailers on FrontRow if you doubt that high quality video can be streamed over the internet...My friend has a 3Mbps download speed and the trailers look VERY good and play instantaneously (probably about 720i or p if I was guessing). Another option (as pointed out many time before) would be to dump the Mini out of the equation and use 802.11n to stream the content directly from a computer.

[jakemd]

What will it be? That's the question.

I currently have dish network DVR with over 300 channels. Te ability to surf is paramount. I also like the fact that It will search for all episodes of a preticular title even if there are reruns on 6 different channels. That service is hard in and of itself to manage.

Apple does not want to do that. (remember, easy for the consumer.)

Thats why I have reason to believe that the service will only include shows that you missed last night, and full movies.


I have thought about it, and the full movies could be done several ways.
1. You buy the movie. You watch the movie, anyday all day.
2. You rent the movie, for 2.99? (what is blockbusters current rate?) You get to watch the moive once it is downloaded, but its locked untill you either purchase it, or rent it again.
3. Like some movies on satellite, you can purcahse what is called an "all day ticket", that is, pay once and get to watch the movies as much as you want for the whole day. Then when the day is over, your movie is gone.
4. A netflix type service. If you don't know, what netflix does is send you 3 movies for 9.99 a month. You get to keep them as long as you like provided you pay the 9.99 a month subscription. When you are done with one movie, you can send it back and they will send you another one. Apple could do such a service where you can buy some movies, watch them, and then trade them in on others......a whole host of possiblities.

as far as the hardware is concerned, it might be as good as a progressive scan dvd player. I don't see full 1080i for the sheer fact that the card would have to be enormus, and they would also need backward compatbility with component and composite.
Remember how when the ipod first came out they thought that firewire would kill all, now ipods dont even sync via firewire anymore.
What ever is done for the hardware probally needs at least s-video and maybe dvi.
Hopefully optical audio, with the correct dts and dolby decoders so that I might be able to junk my dvd player.

I would take the size hit I was able to junk my dvd player.
Maybe (i'm dreamin for a first edition of this machine) cable card / satellite access card compatability.... then I could junk my dish dvr and use network storage...
.....

That being said, what about remote? Keep the slender one and add a wireless keyboard? Bluetooth? With a mounted trackball?

all options to be had.....

[Aggamemnon]

If it didn't recieve DVB Broadcasts out of the box I would be sorely dissapointed.

[yoak]

It sounds like a new product in addition to the Mini IMO.
I don´t think they´ll make the Mini bigger, how do you sell that?
"Look, the Mini has now got BIG(GER)"?:p

[Yebot]

Hmmmm ...

http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,123840,00.asp

[ejl10]

It sounds like a new product in addition to the Mini IMO.
I don´t think they´ll make the Mini bigger, how do you sell that?
"Look, the Mini has now got BIG(GER)"?:p

I agree. Keep the Mini on the desktop, and put a new Mac on the shelf with a standard A/V footprint. I'd expect Apple to put in some custom hardware rather than just a glorified SFF PC with Front Row. My guess is that, if they decide to get into this market, they'll find a way to really one up Tivo/ReplayTV/Windows MC and change the TV experience again the way Replay and Tivo changed it years ago. There's a lot of room for improvement, but Windows Media Center offers a lot of functionality that I hope Apple won't choose to ignore.

One more thing, I wouldn't be surprised if the scheduling feature were integrated into .Mac so we all had a reason to subscribe.

[yoda_four]

http://loop.worldofapple.com/archives/2005/12/31/mac-shifts-bandwidth-limit-to-1tb/

Does ThinkSecret (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0511contentdist.html) have it right? Is Apple prepping .Mac?

The importance here is not the 1GB storage, it's the 1GB bandwith; considering this is purported to be a "download on-demand" service.

[strange days]

i don't care about HD size, i got external HDs for storage ( and plenty other people may just need to stream instead of recording ); as far as i am concerned they could keep it small, all i care is Yonah inside and a GOOD video card...

...on the other side, if they want to make it a DVR, then it will probably have a different form factor. Whatever, i'll buy it anyway as long as it has Yonah and a GOOD video card. :D

[Randall]

http://loop.worldofapple.com/archives/2005/12/31/mac-shifts-bandwidth-limit-to-1tb/

Does ThinkSecret (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0511contentdist.html) have it right? Is Apple prepping .Mac?

The importance here is not the 1GB storage, it's the 1GB bandwith; considering this is purported to be a "download on-demand" service.hmmm getting HD content "as fast as my internet conntection can handle" sounds not so good to people like me that aren't lucky enough to be in Japan. Where the connections are upwards of 100 Mbit dedicated fibre for a mere 5000 yen ($42 USD per month, or 36 Euros per month)

[howesey]

Just heard a rumour (cannot say source), that a very large order of blu-ray drives has been ordered. They didn't say who, but I have heard from other sources (not saying again) that Apple should be having them in their next generation of computers, whether they come in time for the new mini, that's one to wait to find out. I doubt Intel will allow HD content to be output via a computer to a panel/TV via HDMI as they do not allow computers to be compatible with HDCP, so HD content will be off the books.

[EricNau]

Just heard a rumour (cannot say source), that a very large order of blu-ray drives has been ordered. They didn't say who, but I have heard from other sources (not saying again) that Apple should be having them in their next generation of computers, whether they come in time for the new mini, that's one to wait to find out. I doubt Intel will allow HD content to be output via a computer to a panel/TV via HDMI as they do not allow computers to be compatible with HDCP, so HD content will be off the books.
I think Blu Ray drives would make the mini too expensive. If anything I think they'd be in the Powermacs.

[cgratti]

hmmm getting HD content "as fast as my internet conntection can handle" sounds not so good to people like me that aren't lucky enough to be in Japan. Where the connections are upwards of 100 Mbit dedicated fibre for a mere 5000 yen ($42 USD per month, or 36 Euros per month)


whats your speed there now? Here I get 5MB p/sec, which isnt all that bad. I max out around 475kbs when downloading, for about $40 a month.

[Piarco]

I'm wierdly more interested on what happens with the Mac Mini than the PowerBooks..... and its the PowerBook I actually need!

Seven days till MWSF.....

[Peace]

I'm wierdly more interested on what happens with the Mac Mini than the PowerBooks..... and its the PowerBook I actually need!

Seven days till MWSF.....

Well I stepped on the lid of my Rev A Powerbook 1Ghz and it's now FUBAR..
So instead of paying $800 to have it replaced I'm hoping for a new iBook:)

[longsilver]

The UK refurb store has spent the last few weeks selling off iBooks (12" and 14", many of them NOT specifically listed as refurbished) at discounts of about 20% - unsurprising if there's a 13" widescreen on the way. However, they have also been selling off 12", 15" and a few 17" PowerBooks at similar markdowns. The Mac Mini has also been on sale at a discount, which fits in with rumours of a revamp.

On a separate note, I have to congratulate Sony on getting to market with their Reader. I just hope the spelling on the device is better than on their promotional website, which mentions the device's "portablity" (rather than portability):

http://products.sel.sony.com/pa/PRS/reader_features.html

The .swf is at
http://products.sel.sony.com/pa/PRS/flash/book_site_hero.swf