Intel Apple Laptop In January?

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Citigroup analyst Richard Gardner (http://news.com.com/Apple+may+launch+Intel+laptops%2C+analyst+says/2100-1044_3-5976771.html?part=rss&tag=5976771&subj=news
) claims that Apple is poised to release an Intel-based laptop as early as January. Additionally, Gardner forsees Apple becoming a $20 billion company in 2006.
Apple Computer could introduce its first laptop computers based on Intel chips as early as January, which, together with robust sales of video iPods, should drive earnings higher, Citigroup said Wednesday.
It is not known if Gardner is looking at new information from Apple, or simply responding to recent rumors (1 (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2005/11/20051117022422.shtml), 2 (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2005/11/20051129005319.shtml)) of Intel-based Apple hardware being ready for debut at MacWorld San Francisco.

[Lacero]

Big news media reporting on a Mac rumor? Hmm... It must be true then.

I'll possibly eat crow and say Apple will release an Intel PowerBook, and not the widely speculated iBook. Unconfirmed reports state Apple may or may not consolidate the two laptop lines into a single line. Stay tuned for more updates. :p

[iGary]

Big news media reporting on a Mac rumor? Hmm... It must be true then.

Better if it came form the WSJ.

I think I just threw up in my mouth a little™.

Intel PB's.

*ralph*

[Metatron]

I will not beleive it...

nope, nope, nope, nope, nope

[Super Dave]

What does this even mean? I don't get how analysts can make arbitrary claims based on no information.

David:cool:

[crap freakboy]

Lets hope Apple have crossed all the t's and dotted all the i's on the new hardware and software else it's going to be a PR 'mare.

[Mac_Freak]

January sounds good to me. :D

[miketcool]

Hopefully with Intel as a supplier, the InPowerBook will be available in January, not a tease as a few other products have been. Remember the G5's coming out in July and not becoming available into September? I like product announcements, but when you make a big fuss, make them available please!

[Seasought]

"We are becoming more convinced that Apple will introduce its first Intel-based PowerBook at Macworld San Francisco,"

Liar!

<runs away>

:D

[Stella]

If the Intel processor is ready ( and Apple have had samples to play with in revised laptops ) , the software ready ( i.e., Apples consumer applications and OSX ) and Rosetta improved to support Altivec - why not? Why delay the Intel roll out?

[stevep]

If it's an Intel iBook replacement then it will surely overtake the PowerBook specs and performance, so let's hope its an Intel PowerBook (if it's true of course........)

[oskar]

I believe we've heard rumors about everything except PowerMacs for January then, right? Not that I'm expecting one, but there have been so many things rumored that we don't really know what we can expect anymore.

[vniow]

I want this chip in a new Apple notebook now.

http://anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2627&p=1

[Eevee]

Cool...iBooks with intel chips! :cool:

[Tommyg117]

Cool...iBooks with intel chips! :cool:
that would be cool, but I am really hoping for a powerbook update. I want to get one but I want to wait for the 1st update after the intel switch! The closer the intel powerbook is to being released, the closer it is til I get one! Nice! An ibook would be nice though too!

[Phatpat]

To me it would make sense if they announced iBooks shipping immediately and Pbooks shipping in a few weeks. The low end Pentium M's will be too much competition for a 1.67 G4.

Unless of course they announce a Powerbook G5....

[Manatee]

MacrumorsCitigroup analyst Richard Gardner claims that Apple is poised to release an Intel-based laptop as early as January.

As early as?

He's not sticking his neck too far out there. Anytime between January 2006 and the end of time, and his information is absolutely right. ;)

I'm really looking forward to it, though. I don't know if I'll buy the very first Intel Powerbook, since I imagine a speed bump and dual-core will appear in the second generation. It's like the American car makers always introducing a hot new model with the crappy engine, and then ramping up production of the good version after the early adopters have bought the less desirable one. :)

[Lacero]

Unless of course they announce a Powerbook G5....
Steve will call the new Intel laptops PowerBook G5s just to shut everyone up. Watch and see.

[KindredMAC]

Daddy needs a new pair of shoes!

Give me a 12" or 13" Widescreen iBook for $799 with a Super Drive or hell even a Combo Drive and I will place my order the first day!

That would make a very nice replacement for our 14" 900MHz G3 iBook! She has served us well, but it is time for her to retire to the pasture....

[Lyle]

It's just as well that I can't currently afford to upgrade my TiBook to one of these (alleged) new PowerBooks. I'll have to wait until they're at least in their second or third revision, and perhaps by that time they will have worked out the kinks and the software vendors will have begun to catch up as well.

I must keep reminding myself of this. ;)

[JonHimself]

I've been trying my best to follow all of the intel-related threads but I haven't seen the actual name of the laptops being discussed. Does anyone think they will keep the same names (iBook, Powerbook, and iMac, PowerMac as well I guess) when they switch? Or do you think they will rename them?

[Will Cheyney]

Blimey! All these rumours... I can't wait!

[512ke]

My half serious prediction. In January Apple will scrap their hit product the Powerbook. They'll come out with three iterations of one laptop line, the iBook. The 3 models:

The iBook. The iBook Nano. And the iBook shuffle.

Available in white and black.

(The iBook shuffle will be a revolutionary step, the first laptop to do away with the screen.)

[Eevee]

that would be cool, but I am really hoping for a powerbook update. I want to get one but I want to wait for the 1st update after the intel switch! The closer the intel powerbook is to being released, the closer it is til I get one! Nice! An ibook would be nice though too!


Sure, I would hope the powerbook will also have the intel chip. But based on the recent rumors, it seems more likely the iBook will be the first Mac portable to have the intel chip.

Even if Apple released the powerbook equipped with the intel chip, are you sure you want to get it? Might have problems...wait till second generation?

[Lyle]

I've been trying my best to follow all of the intel-related threads but I haven't seen the actual name of the laptops being discussed. Does anyone think they will keep the same names (iBook, Powerbook, and iMac, PowerMac as well I guess) when they switch? Or do you think they will rename them?I've never heard any suggestion that they'd change the names, and it strikes me as a bad idea from a marketing point of view. Not that I know anything about marketing.

[JW Pepper]

My main concern is will my older printers still work on Intel based Macs? Can it print using Rosetta to take advantage of an OSX printer driver? I have an A3 colour laser it cost over $8000 new and has had light use and has years of service left in it, but QMS which is now part of Konica Minolta are probably unlikely to bring out an OSX Intel driver for it.

[Eevee]

Steve will call the new Intel laptops PowerBook G5s just to shut everyone up. Watch and see.

After calling it G5, will the colour be black, like the G3s?

[Seasought]

(The iBook shuffle will be a revolutionary step, the first laptop to do away with the screen.)

:D

I want a holographic display with interactivity along the lines of that found in computers in the film Minority Report.

[FoxyKaye]

...Unconfirmed reports state Apple may or may not consolidate the two laptop lines into a single line. Stay tuned for more updates. :p
From where? I'd be interested to see a link on this.

Though not an alltogether bad idea - it saves Apple money (single form factor), and allows a broader offering of features in the lineup. A baseline model (single core processor, combo drive, 60GB HDD, 512MB RAM) could sell for $999, while the high-power model (dual-core processor, DVD DL or Blu-Ray, 120GB HDD, 2GB RAM) could sell for $2500. I'd probably also expect the 15" to be the "sweet-spot" WRT screen size, but maybe Apple would keep the current 12"-17" range.

[Josh396]

Give me a 12" or 13" Widescreen iBook for $799 with a Super Drive or hell even a Combo Drive and I will place my order the first day!

I don't even need a laptop and I would buy that. I'm just interested to see the what the actual speed of these processors will be at when Apple ships them.

[Josh396]

Steve will call the new Intel laptops PowerBook G5s just to shut everyone up. Watch and see.
I don't see that happening. I could seem him giving it a similar name or a something with mobility in it but I just don't see him calling it a G5 with the iMacs and Power Macs both having G5's.

[qtip919]

I don't even need a laptop and I would buy that. I'm just interested to see the what the actual speed of these processors will be at when Apple ships them.

Im in...I have about half the money I need for this (assuming 1700+ for a new laptop)

I dont see what everyone is so disgusted in with respect to intel hardware...I have been working with Intel hardware for years, and I dont see anything in their hardware that makes them worse than IBM...Its the software that matters dummy!

[BlizzardBomb]

To me it would make sense if they announced iBooks shipping immediately and Pbooks shipping in a few weeks. The low end Pentium M's will be too much competition for a 1.67 G4.

Unless of course they announce a Powerbook G5....

Ah, I can see it now.

Introducing the new Powerbook G5. With 5... minutes of battery life and a Superdrive that can burn DVDs (literally). Pick up yours today before they burn the Apple Store down.

[Noiseboy]

Any of you OS X intel developers out there think that you're even remotely close to a GM release? I've seen nothing on these or any other forums to suggest that you are. I could only assume that any computer that Apple might launch at MWSF would not actually ship for some time. Maybe I'm being pessimistic but I just don't see anything being ready in just over a month.

[BornAgainMac]

They probably are reporting this from Macrumors.com. This is a endless circle. I can hardly wait for anything Apple does with Intel.

With the rumors of a smaller Shuffle, Mac Tivo Mini, Intel this and that, and iLife '06 this will be like having 3 Macworlds.

[pgwalsh]

It's pretty damn cool if Apple releases a laptop or two at Apple Expo in Janurary. The powerbooks could use some juice. Mine is proving to lack that power I need for mixing Audio with a number of plugins.

I wonder when the PowerMacs will see an update. It's unfortunate that Intels desktop processors aren't matching up to AMD's, but I'm sure things will change midpoint next year. I'd love to jump on the quad right now, but I'm nervous about vendor support in the future. If I new for a fact that Ableton Live would implement multi-threading on the PPC, it would be a no brainer.

[Stella]

I don't see that happening. I could seem him giving it a similar name or a something with mobility in it but I just don't see him calling it a G5 with the iMacs and Power Macs both having G5's.

Yep, it'll be too confusing, especially when G5 refers to the PPC 970 processor and not not an Intel processor.

They probably are reporting this from Macrumors.com. This is a endless circle. I can hardly wait for anything Apple does with Intel.

With the rumors of a smaller Shuffle, Mac Tivo Mini, Intel this and that, and iLife '06 this will be like having 3 Macworlds.
I very much doubt that - MacRumours rarely comes up with its own rumours, just publishes rumours from other sources - such as TS or AI. :-)

[CTYankee]

Big news media reporting on a Mac rumor? Hmm... It must be true then.

I'll possibly eat crow and say Apple will release an Intel PowerBook, and not the widely speculated iBook. Unconfirmed reports state Apple may or may not consolidate the two laptop lines into a single line. Stay tuned for more updates. :p

Next Gen powerbooks (intel) are due in January, Feb if they hit delays. Mark my words.

[MattG]

Bring it on!!

I'm not due for a new laptop at work yet; just got one last year. But, if Apple can muster up a really fast laptop, I might just have to bite the bullet and shell out the cash myself. I'm just itching for something faster to do DV editing on.

[nagromme]

I've always believed, from the very start, that Intel Macs starting in January were likely.

Now, how much of that is wishful thinking is hard to say :) I was going to get a new Mac this year, and delayed it to see what's next.

[bugfaceuk]

Gak, as someone has already said, if we can just get a PowerMac rumor for January as well, we'll be absolutely no better off than having no rumours.

Biggest question I have is why the hell are they calling them Mactels??? They are surely Mintels?

[pgwalsh]

Bring it on!!
Exactly... I've seen real life results of Pentium M's vs the G4 on a laptop and they're getting more than double the power in Ableton Live.. Makes me want to cry...

[ICEBERG]

I am thinking that there could be one line of Laptops from apple. Why not scrap the powerbook and the ibook line, save some money and have one line of laptops with good intel chip and a graphic card then call them itel. How is that for an idea. Ohh and i want mine in Black like the nano.:)

[mongoos150]

Unfortunately, rumers seem to point to an iBook release. I'm too damned impatient - although it will give Apple more time to iron out the problems with the processors/whatever else happens. I would be ecstatic with a Yonah PB (read: SPEED) that actually gets 5.5 hours of battery life...

[LimeiBook86]

Steve will call the new Intel laptops PowerBook G5s just to shut everyone up. Watch and see.
Hahaha, Oh Lacero how right you are. I do indeed wonder what these machines will be called, they'll have to do a better model naming system then, Dell, HP, or Gateway... I can't imagine saying "Yes I'd like to purchase the Apple XP5492810-I PowerBook!" This is Apple we're talking about so I guess they'll have a nice name for it. I mean it can't be called the iiBook, that would be confusing.

Now all we have to do is wait for another invatation to the press from Apple with some little teaser to make us go insane until the day of the event. hahaha! :D :rolleyes: :p

They probably are reporting this from Macrumors.com. This is a endless circle. I can hardly wait for anything Apple does with Intel.

With the rumors of a smaller Shuffle, Mac Tivo Mini, Intel this and that, and iLife '06 this will be like having 3 Macworlds.
Yeah this is sure a crazy rumor week, this Macworld should be the best one yet! :D

[BlizzardBomb]

Next Gen powerbooks (intel) are due in January, Feb if they hit delays. Mark my words.

I think it would be hilarious if the Intel Macs actually came out during the summer like they said :p Well actaully it wouldn't be funny...

Moving swiftly on, I think Apple need to offer a better iBook line. The cheapest 15-inch* you can get is &#163;1,399/$1,999, which is just plain wrong as some people might not want power, but want lots of screen space. Why not...

13-inch (&#163;599/$849) and 15-inch (&#163;799/$1,099) Widescreen iBooks
13-inch (&#163;1099/$1,399), 15-inch (&#163;1,349/$1,749) and 17-inch (&#163;1,599/$2,099) Widescreen Powerbooks

*And the 14-inch has the same resolution as the 12-inch so you can't include that as having more screen space! ;)

[JW Pepper]

I can't understand what all the excitement is about. This change will have huge financial consequences as you will all want to upgrade you applications so that they run natively, many will not work properly for months. Many devices such a MFD's will be left high and dry and not work at all. Clock speed is going to be significantly higher, but in low end Macs outright performance will still be eclipsed by PowerMacs running PPC, so the actual increase in performance is likely to be modest indeed. There seems to be some fervour about the change, and that may be good for Apple, but quite honestly "Fools rush in where Angles..."

[Bern]

Well considering the so called "line issue" on the latest 15" Powerbooks I'm more than happy to wait for the Rev B or Rev C.

[Lord Blackadder]

I don't think this is based on any solid facts, just echoing current rumors. While I have little doubt that Apple is probably already testing pre-production Intel portables in the bowels of Cupertino, there is no solid evidence of a January release date, or indeed any date beyond Steve's vague timeline.

A new Mac Mini is much more likely for January, though a Powerbook or iBook in January wouldn't surprise me too much. I'm more curious as to what they'll name it.

[Peace]

Any of you OS X intel developers out there think that you're even remotely close to a GM release? I've seen nothing on these or any other forums to suggest that you are. I could only assume that any computer that Apple might launch at MWSF would not actually ship for some time. Maybe I'm being pessimistic but I just don't see anything being ready in just over a month.

In my opinion OSX on Intel is ready now.
There are a lot of universal apps ready to roll.Including games.

[Stella]

Apple will have to sort out pricing - the existing price tag may look high compared to other windows laptops.

For the average person - why would they pay a few hundred dollars more for an Apple intel laptop with the same specs than a same spec'd laptop from another company?

The average person wouldn't really care about the OS, the price would be more important.

[nagromme]

I can't understand what all the excitement is about. ... Clock speed is going to be significantly higher, but in low end Macs outright performance will still be eclipsed by PowerMacs running PPC, so the actual increase in performance is likely to be modest indeed.
The G4 does not eclipse the Pentium M, and certainly won't eclipse the dual-core Yonah :)

And at the low end is where the MOST native apps are ready--already! Most of what the average home user needs was demoed on Intel months ago.


For the average person - why would they pay a few hundred dollars more for an Apple intel laptop with the same specs than a same spec'd laptop from another company?
Don't forget to look at ALL the specs and bundled apps, and not just pick out a few details to compare. The common pitfall when people say Macs cost more.

[opg4759]

I would love a Intel Powerbook in January, but I'm just so wary of a rev A machine.

My 17" 1ghz is starting to to feel slow I decided that instead of buying a new Macintel machine due to the rev A concerns I have, I decided on a dual core G5(now if itwill only ship, that's a whole other story.:mad: ). Figuring by the time that machine is running out of steam the Macintels will be solid and the major bugs wil be worked out. Granted I do believe that the rev A's will be stable because if they aren't it will be a real black eye to Apple, but I don't want to take that chance with my money.

[Manatee]

(The iBook shuffle will be a revolutionary step, the first laptop to do away with the screen.)

That should cut down on web surfing at the workplace.

[lopresmb]

My half serious prediction. In January Apple will scrap their hit product the Powerbook. They'll come out with three iterations of one laptop line, the iBook. The 3 models:

The iBook. The iBook Nano. And the iBook shuffle.

Available in white and black.

(The iBook shuffle will be a revolutionary step, the first laptop to do away with the screen.)
thats funny, and the shuffle will randomly open programs to "keep life random"...

[motulist]

I've been trying my best to follow all of the intel-related threads but I haven't seen the actual name of the laptops being discussed. Does anyone think they will keep the same names (iBook, Powerbook, and iMac, PowerMac as well I guess) when they switch? Or do you think they will rename them?

My guess is that as much as they want to promote the intel switch they also don't want to freak out their existing user base too much. So my guess is that the names will stay the same and the form factors will be little changed.

[Bubbasteve]

I can't wait to see the keynote... good time to have Apple Stock

[Stella]

Don't forget to look at ALL the specs and bundled apps, and not just pick out a few details to compare. The common pitfall when people say Macs cost more.

Yep, and most companies will give you a lot of software for your windows machine - far more than Apple does ( normally ).

[bigandy]

i'm drooling.....

[Photorun]

Yep, and most companies will give you a lot of software for your windows machine - far more than Apple does ( normally ).

Yes, and they're SOOO much better than the iLife suite of app!:rolleyes: Or were you talking about all the malware? Or warez?

Anyhoo this would be good news all around except those whiners who can't get past the fact Intel is coming (and deal with it!). The part of the article I found a bit confusing is when they're talking about Apple's worth, were they talking actual liquid assets or inflated fake money, i.e. stocks, stocks aren't real money, as a great book of the title aptly explains it, it's "Dumb Money." In terms of actual cash on the dollar, real money, leverage, money money money, last time I read (I believe on my stock report from Apple) they had something like 7.3 billion in the black (that's pretty damn good!) in actual dollars. For reference, that's far more dollars per share than say Dell has laying around. I'd be confused/surprised/happy to find out they somehow had 10 billion more in actual cabbage to throw around though, especially because 1. I'm a stockholder and they've made me quite a bit of dough and 2. they just plopped down over a billion to secure flash memory.

[hayesk]

Apple will have to sort out pricing - the existing price tag may look high compared to other windows laptops.

For the average person - why would they pay a few hundred dollars more for an Apple intel laptop with the same specs than a same spec'd laptop from another company?

The average person wouldn't really care about the OS, the price would be more important.

The average person doesn't even know what a processor is aside from a magic thingamajig inside a computer. The average person will ask for Windows anyway. The people who would even consider a Mac wouldn't care about the brand of CPU, except for the hard core geeks.

[dashiel]

tough situation for apple... it makes sense to update the consumer level machines first as the majority of their apps will be intel native at launch... but a 2Ghz dual core yonah would wreck the current powerbook lineup in every way except screen size. it would cannibalize sales, unless as mentioned here apple goes to a single laptop lineup.

$799 single core 12"
$999 single core 15"
$1499 dual core 15"
$1999 dual core 17"

not sure if they could meet those prices, but if they could -- they wouldn't be able to make enough of them.

[2nyRiggz]

where do these rumors come from? there are alot saying mini now a laptop....well im not keeping my hopes up.


Bless

[maclamb]

$799 single core 12"
$999 single core 15"
$1499 dual core 15"
$1999 dual core 17"
.

geez I hope you're right
It will be interesting to see if apple lets current intel notebook prices drive their line.
I would be standing in line overnight to get a 15" iPB dual core
(insert major drool, wipe screen) for under $2k

[Stella]

I've seen a lot better bundles for PCs than Apple - iLife isn't the greatest bundle.

Calling PC software bundles Spyware is a bit, well, stupid.

[runninmac]

Any of you OS X intel developers out there think that you're even remotely close to a GM release? I've seen nothing on these or any other forums to suggest that you are. I could only assume that any computer that Apple might launch at MWSF would not actually ship for some time. Maybe I'm being pessimistic but I just don't see anything being ready in just over a month.

The reason I think you havnt heard anything remotly close is apple could sue the $h!t out of them if they squeeled about them. (or atleast im pretty sure they could)

[Lord Blackadder]

I've seen a lot better bundles for PCs than Apple - iLife isn't the greatest bundle.

I disagree that iLife isn't a great bundle - I think it adds a lot of functionality for a decent price, though I wish it could do more, especially with video.

Until the new portables actually come out, barring a leak, we can do nothing but speculate for the next month and a half whether we'll see Powerbooks in January.

[adrianl]

I have it from an Apple employee that the first Intel Mac to be released in Jan 2006 will be the Mini.

Doubt if a 'pro' Intel machine will be readied till a lot more software important to pros is native.

[patseguin]

I have it from an Apple employee that the first Intel Mac to be released in Jan 2006 will be the Mini.

Doubt if a 'pro' Intel machine will be readied till a lot more software important to pros is native.

That makes 100% sense to me.

[generik]

(The iBook shuffle will be a revolutionary step, the first laptop to do away with the screen.)

Not just that, it has been engineered from ground up to give random a chance(tm).

Every CPU instruction, every memory load and store, every read and write from the hard drive will result in COMPLETELY unpredictable and random data!

[BillyShears]

The new naming convention will be:

Powerbook
iBook

(No "G4" or "G5" stuff)

[obeygiant]

if they really do come out with intel PBs.
they'll prolly have a design change... silver, red, or blue PBs!


you heard it here first!

[Peace]

if they really do come out with intel PBs.
they'll prolly have a design change... silver, red, or blue PBs!


you heard it here first!

Aluminum iBooks
Black Powerbooks

[nagromme]

Yep, and most companies will give you a lot of software for your windows machine - far more than Apple does ( normally ).
"Most" companies certainly doesn't include Dell :D I was shocked at what they make you pay extra for when it comes to the software bundle. Catching a low-end Dell up to what a Mac comes with costs hundreds--and you still haven't achieved the integration and ease-of-use of iLife. You've still paid more for less. Ease of use does matter. And the fact that you don't NEED anti-virus or anti-spyware software on a Mac matters too.

I've seen a lot better bundles for PCs than Apple - iLife isn't the greatest bundle.
A valid viewpoint. It depends on what you want. If you're a user who doesn't even DO those things, then of course iLife isn't a selling point. But if you DO want those things, Windows really doesn't have anything to touch the iLife suite, for any price. iLife is an outstanding and well-integrated package.

[generik]

Aluminum iBooks
Black Powerbooks

I hope the black PBs don't have paint flaking off after a while.

Perhaps they can do it they way they do with those anodized aluminium pots that I have in my kitchen :)

[Lacero]

I'd like to see a gun metal finish. Or some sort of translucent, oyster-like sheen. Maybe use real cultured pearl shells? Could make quite the fashion statement among the rich yuppies.

Here's to the Crazy Ones http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=35452 (http://www.uriah.com/apple-qt/movies/think-different.mov)

[BlizzardBomb]

The new naming convention will be:

Powerbook
iBook

(No "G4" or "G5" stuff)

Or how about iBook Lite and Powerbook Lite for the single-core versions, and iBook and Powerbook for the mighty dualies :D

[sehix]

Any of you OS X intel developers out there think that you're even remotely close to a GM release? I've seen nothing on these or any other forums to suggest that you are. I could only assume that any computer that Apple might launch at MWSF would not actually ship for some time. Maybe I'm being pessimistic but I just don't see anything being ready in just over a month.

There is already a trickle of OS X apps released as Universal binaries. The first started appearing about a month ago. BBEdit 8.2.4 is one of them.

You can tell by doing a Get Info on the application. At the bottom is a new line; "Architecture Intel, PPC"

[Peace]

Single Core iBook
Dual Core Probook

[GroundLoop]

The new naming convention will be:

Powerbook
iBook

(No "G4" or "G5" stuff)

This will never happen. There needs to be a distinction. My bet is on a model number series (does not have to conform to the Intel model numbers...but may).

Anybody remember the PowerBook 100, PowerBook 140, PowerBook 170, etc.?

Hickman

[DHagan4755]

Front Row and Photo Booth are both Universal Binaries.

[dex22]

My money on naming depends on if you're pro- or anti-intel.

Pro: iBook and iMac, etc.

anti: iBoo and PowerBoo ;)

[nagromme]

This will never happen. There needs to be a distinction. My bet is on a model number series (does not have to conform to the Intel model numbers...but may).

Anybody remember the PowerBook 100, PowerBook 140, PowerBook 170, etc.?

Hickman
Actually, it has already happened: the iBook was just called the iBook at first, despite the different models and even a new casing. And there were a number of different iMacs just called iMacs. (And I think the PowerBook was briefly just called the PowerBook at some point--maybe in the late G3 days?) The name doesn't have to be fully specific to one model number. After all, there are many different PowerBook G4s. I wouldn't rule out simply "PowerBooks."

But I'll toss in my speculation on future names:

* Mac Mini ("the all-new Mac Mini") or Mac Mini with letters (HT?) if it gains some totally new purpose

* iMac... or iMac S (for "single core") or iMac D (for "dual" core) or simply iMac Dual

* iBook or iBook S

* PowerBook or PowerBook Dual or PowerBook D

* PowerMac or PowerMac Dual or PowerMac D

* PowerMac Quad or PowerMac Q

* Xserve

[themacman]

Actually, it has already happened: the iBook was just called the iBook at first, despite the different models and even a new casing. And there were a number of different iMacs just called iMacs. (And I think the PowerBook was briefly just called the PowerBook at some point--maybe in the late G3 days?) The name doesn't have to be fully specific to one model number. After all, there are many different PowerBook G4s. I wouldn't rule out simply "PowerBooks."

But I'll toss in my speculation on future names:

* Mac Mini ("the all-new Mac Mini") or Mac Mini with letters (HT?) if it gains some totally new purpose

* iMac... or iMac S (for "single core") or iMac D (for "dual" core) or simply iMac Dual

* iBook or iBook S

* PowerBook or PowerBook Dual or PowerBook D

* PowerMac or PowerMac Dual or PowerMac D

* PowerMac Quad or PowerMac Q

* Xserve
how about none of those names and the reinvention of every name of every apple product beside the ipod and itunes. Nahhh then probally powerbookI

[840quadra]

I'd like to see a gun metal finish. Or some sort of translucent, oyster-like sheen. Maybe use real cultured pearl shells? Could make quite the fashion statement among the rich yuppies.



In other words you want one so you can fit in at your neighbors tea parties ?
My Neighbors demand this as well, they say White is soooo out.

:p

http://forums.macrumors.com/image.php?u=47064&type=profile&dateline=1127904880

[Frobozz]

I think the most fascinating part of all this, aside from the Intel chips, will be how Apple markets these new machines. It's the ONE thing we're all in the dark about.

Powerbook G5?
PowerBook G5i
PowerBook G6

.... and the list goes on and on and on ...

[Frobozz]

This will never happen. There needs to be a distinction. My bet is on a model number series (does not have to conform to the Intel model numbers...but may).

Anybody remember the PowerBook 100, PowerBook 140, PowerBook 170, etc.?

Hickman

Apple is WAY too cool for model numbers. That went out with the millenium. I think they will keep a "generational" theme. It may not be the "G(n)" they use now ... but I still think it will be an over arching name scheme.

[NicP]

Yep, and most companies will give you a lot of software for your windows machine - far more than Apple does ( normally ).

Do you have examples? My PC came with a 3 month subscription to Anti-Virus (not needed on mac), and WinDVD (also not needed on mac). So in my experience Apple gives you more (and better) software.

[guez]

Here's the deal:

Apple will introduce their whole Intel line next Wednesday. Including the Powermac AND... the iPod. Yes, the iPod will use Merom technology.

The Mac mini will be a $299 set-top box with a magic technology that pipes free music/video content into you brain via a new, as-yet-unannounced technology (this technology will implemented on the iPod in MWSF 2006).

Apple will make billions and billions of dollars in profit, cripple Microsoft, and use the Apple Stores to promote Steve Jobs' candidacy for Presidency. Once elected, Steve will eliminate all consumer choice in every sector of the economy and introduce a series revolutionary new devices that will replace the "car," the "toaster," and the "research university."

Then we will all drink Koolaid and ascend to a new level of consciousness.

[nagromme]

I think they will keep a "generational" theme. It may not be the "G(n)" they use now ... but I still think it will be an over arching name scheme.
I suppose in theory they COULD choose to keep the G naming. Neither IBM nor Motorola owns the G series naming. It's an Apple thing. They've applied it to PowerPC generations, but they COULD do something else with it if they wished. An Intel PowerBook G5 would be confusing... but a Yonah PowerBook G6 isn't impossible. Followed by a Merom PowerBook G7... and PowerMacs could even stick it out and jump straight to G7 in late 2006.

Doubtful, but since we're imagining names...

[Tristan_X]

Perhaps they can do it they way they do with those anodized aluminium pots that I have in my kitchen :)

Yes - the T-FalBook! No stick, no stains. Would've been good for the G4 PB's - might've made some eggs with all that overheating.

As for names, the "i"phenomenon is onlikely to be scrapped in my opinion. I thing the iBook and iMac will keep their names. The PowerBook may be re-branded as something that says "sexy" and "powerful". They might throw a 5 in there for good measure. The "PowerBook 5000", perhaps? Then they can make us feel outdated with constant small revisions and name changes accordingly - "PowerBook 5000b" and "PowerBook 5050ac".

[EricNau]

Christmas isn't just for December anymore! :p

I can't wait!

So far we'll see a Mac mini, and laptops, anything else?

[SiliconAddict]

http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/images/smiles/xyxthumbs.gif I'm so excited I'm going to have to wear Huggies during the MWSF keynote! http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/images/smiles/worried.gif

[SiliconAddict]

Christmas isn't just for December anymore! :p

I can't wait!

So far we'll theoretically see a Mac mini, and laptops, anything else?

Fixed that for you! :D And there is iLife and iWork '06 but at this point isn't that a given. Personally I'm thinking Aperture Express to go along with the new dual core PowerBooks and single core iBooks. :D

[speedemonV12]

All this sounds good about the naming. But what i really want to know is how big will the speed bost be with the intel laptops. Once they make the switch, how fast will a single core, and a dual core laptop be?

[SiliconAddict]

Yes - the T-FalBook! No stick, no stains. Would've been good for the G4 PB's - might've made some eggs with all that overheating.

The PowerBook may be re-branded as something that says "sexy" and "powerful".

Like what? The Apple Persephone. . .


If you don't get it you don't watch enough Simpsons. :p :D

[SiliconAddict]

All this sounds good about the naming. But what i really want to know is how big will the speed bost be with the intel laptops. Once they make the switch, how fast will a single core, and a dual core laptop be?

My WAG* is that the first PowerBooks will come in at:
-PowerBook 12" -> 1.5Ghz dual core Yonah (Whatever is the lowest dual core they have.)
-PowerBook 15" -> 2.0Ghz dual core Yonah
-PowerBook 17" -> Whatever is TOP of the line for the Yonah (Prob 2.1-2.3Ghz.)

-iBook 14" Widescreen 2 GHz single core Dothan.
-iBook 12" Widescreen 1.5 GHz single core ULV Dothan with a form factor to boot that is less then .5 of an inch thick.


Before people start screeching that they would never put out a CPU that is below the speed of what is currently out keep in mind the selling point of have 2 cores. That could possibly offset the idea that its going to be slower then the G4 at 1.67Ghz which we know it won't be.

*Wild @** Guess

[maestro55]

Though I do have mixed thoughts on this, I suspect that it will be a good system.; however, I am uncertain if they are developing a chipset JUST FOR APPLE or what. It doesn't matter much for me, because by the time I get a Mac with the new Intel processor, it will be old anyhow. I may end up with an upgraded G3 Pismo, and we all know those are few years behind the times.

So I am just waiting to see this, and perhaps it will be as nice as everyone believes.

[EricNau]

Fixed that for you! :D And there is iLife and iWork '06 but at this point isn't that a given. Personally I'm thinking Aperture Express to go along with the new dual core PowerBooks and single core iBooks. :D

Thanks, that's what I meant. Unless, I know something you don't...;)

[kwajo.com]

I'm not sure I would buy one of these Rev. A. yes I'm not in the market right now, but I'd consider a new iBook if it was ~1000 CND and I could retire my lime clamshell. It seems like a good combo to have a G5 and an intel based portable. best of both worlds IMO

[Maxx Power]

I donno, just saw a review of Yonah at anandtech, it draws barely less power than a Athlon 64 X2, and is slightly slower.

But 92 watts idle and 108 watts load isn't pretty for a laptop, and it is weak to compete with the veteran Athlon 64 X2.

Check it out yourself:
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2627

[switchr92]

My WAG* is that the first PowerBooks will come in at:
-PowerBook 12" -> 1.5Ghz dual core Yonah (Whatever is the lowest dual core they have.)
-PowerBook 15" -> 2.0Ghz dual core Yonah
-PowerBook 17" -> Whatever is TOP of the line for the Yonah (Prob 2.1-2.3Ghz.)

-iBook 14" Widescreen 2 GHz single core Dothan.
-iBook 12" Widescreen 1.5 GHz single core ULV Dothan with a form factor to boot that is less then .5 of an inch thick.


Before people start screeching that they would never put out a CPU that is below the speed of what is currently out keep in mind the selling point of have 2 cores. That could possibly offset the idea that its going to be slower then the G4 at 1.67Ghz which we know it won't be.

*Wild @** Guess

I disagree, I don't think they would mind putting out a lower GHz # of the P. M than the G4, but i also disagree that they would put a higher GHz # on the 14" iBook than the 12" P. Book, because in some tasks not requiring dual-core or not taking advantage of Dual core, the 14 ibook could beat the 12 Pbook. And don't start whining, "Yonah is better than Dothan", because a 2GHz Dothan will beat a 1.5 GHz Yonah if dual-cores are utilized.

[Stella]

Do you have examples? My PC came with a 3 month subscription to Anti-Virus (not needed on mac), and WinDVD (also not needed on mac). So in my experience Apple gives you more (and better) software.

Anti Virus is helpful on a Mac - do you want to send email viruses on to other users? (Personally, I don't, its a windows problem and they can deal with it ;-) )

As for software bundles - i could always remember smaller PC manufacturers would offer software bundles ( OEM microsoft software, and / or Word Perfect OEM plus other OEM software) but looking at Dell, Sony and Gateway, they do not.

[digitalbiker]

I donno, just saw a review of Yonah at anandtech, it draws barely less power than a Athlon 64 X2, and is slightly slower.

But 92 watts idle and 108 watts load isn't pretty for a laptop, and it is weak to compete with the veteran Athlon 64 X2.

Check it out yourself:
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2627

Wow! And we thought the G5 was too hot for a laptop. I guess the super thin low fan noise laptop days are gone with these new Intels. Now we get to look forward to Powerbricks rather than PowerBooks.
:eek:

[toneloco2881]

I donno, just saw a review of Yonah at anandtech, it draws barely less power than a Athlon 64 X2, and is slightly slower.

But 92 watts idle and 108 watts load isn't pretty for a laptop, and it is weak to compete with the veteran Athlon 64 X2.

Check it out yourself:
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2627
This was for the "Total" power consumption of the entire computer. Also, keep in mind the yonah was placed in a desktop motherboard, with other desktop components. Yonah fared incredibly well with one of the more powerful "desktop" chips in existence, at similar clockspeeds while exhibiting significantly lower power consumption. Look at the minimal increase in idle and load values. Typical power for the processor itself should be around 31w MAX. I was beyond impressed!

I feel like a little kid all over again waiting for christmas, but this time it's in anticipation of MWSF!!

[Maxx Power]

Wow! And we thought the G5 was too hot for a laptop. I guess the super thin low fan noise laptop days are gone with these new Intels. Now we get to look forward to Powerbricks rather than PowerBooks.
:eek:

I suppose they'll make low power versions, but they definitely won't be clocked at much faster than current fastest powerbooks, and most software by then won't be multi-threaded or the games, and there won't be a significant performance gain for those softwares.

[SiliconAddict]

I disagree, I don't think they would mind putting out a lower GHz # of the P. M than the G4, but i also disagree that they would put a higher GHz # on the 14" iBook than the 12" P. Book, because in some tasks not requiring dual-core or not taking advantage of Dual core, the 14 ibook could beat the 12 Pbook. And don't start whining, "Yonah is better than Dothan", because a 2GHz Dothan will beat a 1.5 GHz Yonah if dual-cores are utilized.


Huh? :confused:

[digitalbiker]

I suppose they'll make low power versions, but they definitely won't be clocked at much faster than current fastest powerbooks, and most software by then won't be multi-threaded or the games, and there won't be a significant performance gain for those softwares.

It will be very interesting to see if these new Intel chips really make a big performance difference running OS X x86 when compared to the old G4 Powerbooks. The benchmarks will finally be Apples to Apples.

If there isn't a big difference then I would deem the Intel switch a bad idea. I mean why go through jeopardizing your entire user base, developer community, etc. if there is very little gain in laptop performance. Desktop performance of the G5 is already superior to most x86 designs. FP performance of the G5 blows away the Pentium 4.

Apple would have been better off optimizing OS X for the PPC and spending more dollars on PPC & Cell research to help IBM produce the optimum product.

If there is a big gain then Apple probably made the right choice and the whole transition will hopefully be worth the effort.;)

[nagromme]

My WAG* is that the first PowerBooks will come in at:
-PowerBook 12" -> 1.5Ghz dual core Yonah (Whatever is the lowest dual core they have.)
-PowerBook 15" -> 2.0Ghz dual core Yonah
-PowerBook 17" -> Whatever is TOP of the line for the Yonah (Prob 2.1-2.3Ghz.)

-iBook 14" Widescreen 2 GHz single core Dothan.
-iBook 12" Widescreen 1.5 GHz single core ULV Dothan with a form factor to boot that is less then .5 of an inch thick.
When is the single-core variant of Yonah expected? Alongside Yonah or later? I forget. I thought that might make it into iBooks--epecially if PowerBooks came first.

[nagromme]

If there isn't a big difference then I would deem the Intel switch a bad idea. I mean why go through jeopardizing your entire user base, developer community, etc. if there is very little gain in laptop performance. Desktop performance of the G5 is already superior to most x86 designs. FP performance of the G5 blows away the Pentium 4.

Apple would have been better off optimizing OS X for the PPC and spending more dollars on PPC & Cell research to help IBM produce the optimum product.
There IS a difference. Pentium M is faster than the G4, without any doubt--and the apps to take full advantage of that are well on their way.

No amount of optimizing would make a G4 match a Pentium M--much LESS the chips that are coming AFTER the Pentium M, like Yonah, Merom, and beyond.

As for spending more dollars--yes, that would have allowed IBM to do better than they have. But it would have made hugely expensive Macs, too. Better to go with Intel.

Right now the G5 holds its own just great. But IBM's plans have slipped behind again and again. The G5 won't always hold its own.

Cell is neat, but it's a specialized design with its own very serious limitations. It's not a replacement for a G5. If anything, it could work alongside a main CPU someday. Maybe we'll see that happen.

[digitalbiker]

When is the single-core variant of Yonah expected? Alongside Yonah or later? I forget. I thought that might make it into iBooks--epecially if PowerBooks came first.

I think the single core variant of Yonah is expected several months after the dual core version.

[digitalbiker]

There IS a difference. Pentium M is faster than the G4, without any doubt--and the apps to take full advantage of that are well on their way.


I don't doubt that this is most likely true. But in the past we never really knew for sure due to the fact that not only were we dealing with different chipsets but benchmarks were done using different OS's, GPU's, different software etc. I have seen a lot of benchmarks showing the G4 kill the P-M at variou Photoshop processes, DVD encoding, etc.

Now at least OS X, iLife, iTunes, etc will be native to both chipsets and we can really measure the performance difference directly. I, for one will be real interested to see how these first systems compare.

I still think we will see some of the Linux box manufacturors use the low-power G5 in future laptop systems, possibly with specialized cell graphics processing engines. I have heard there are a few prototype machines already.

[nsjoker]

the intel switch is due to more than just performance and temperature... if demand is high enough for these portables, intel can deliver on time, something IBM could never do. apple sees itself outgrowing IBM's supply capabilities, so they went with intel. i think people are expecting a night and day change, which is dumb. we shouldn't notice that big a bump in performance gains from ppc.:rolleyes:

[nagromme]

I still think we will see some of the Linux box manufacturors use the low-power G5 in future laptop systems, possibly with specialized cell graphics processing engines. I have heard there are a few prototype machines already.
I'd like to see the PowerPC architecture live on in various forms--even if it can't meet the needs of the Mac platform forever.

[MacFan782040]

Aluminum iBooks
Black Powerbooks

NOOOOOOoOOOO Black Powerbooooooooks!

They'll get scratched!!!!!!!!!!

[AidenShaw]

I still think we will see some of the Linux box manufacturors use the low-power G5 in future laptop systems, possibly with specialized cell graphics processing engines. I have heard there are a few prototype machines already.
Desktop Linux is struggling to find its place today, even with x86 systems cheap and everywhere (sub-notebook, laptop, SFF desktop, towers,...).

A PPC Linux system would have the basic problem that very few applications would run on it - the binaries would be incompatible.

I certainly wouldn't invest in such a venture....

[g0gie]

omg judging from that anandtech article, the dual core yonah based pb will ROCK

[digitalbiker]

Desktop Linux is struggling to find its place today, even with x86 systems cheap and everywhere (sub-notebook, laptop, SFF desktop, towers,...).

A PPC Linux system would have the basic problem that very few applications would run on it - the binaries would be incompatible.

I certainly wouldn't invest in such a venture....

Well that is true but the OpenSource community seems to be pretty resourceful. I wouldn't think it would be that difficult to recompile most linux appliations for PPC. Already quite a few PPC binaries can be had on Source forge as well as Apache, Mysql, MyPhp, etc.

[NicP]

Anti Virus is helpful on a Mac - do you want to send email viruses on to other users? (Personally, I don't, its a windows problem and they can deal with it ;-) )

I think this would be a very unlikely situation, the only way you would send a virus would be if you recieved an attatchment with a virus (like a dodgy word macro or something) and fowarded it on. I'd like to think most people are smart enough to avoid such an event without the help of a virus checker

As for software bundles - i could always remember smaller PC manufacturers would offer software bundles ( OEM microsoft software, and / or Word Perfect OEM plus other OEM software) but looking at Dell, Sony and Gateway, they do not.

This was my point exactly

[NicP]

Desktop Linux is struggling to find its place today, even with x86 systems cheap and everywhere (sub-notebook, laptop, SFF desktop, towers,...).

A PPC Linux system would have the basic problem that very few applications would run on it - the binaries would be incompatible.

I certainly wouldn't invest in such a venture....

Ubuntu has a version for PPC, i dont understand why binary incompatiability would be a problem, you can always compile from the source

[digitalbiker]

Does anybody think Apple will do away with the old iBook, PowerBook designations?

Seems to me that this would be the perfect marketing oportunity to change the whole notebook line. Look at the iPod models. Apple completely abandoned the Pro/Consumer designations. and instead just offers a very comprehensive line of products.

Why can't Apple release their first intel notebook as a basic well rounded portable. Later on they introduce higher-end/pro features in a nice light weight formfactor, then they introduce a sub-notebook / tablet design, and eventually a gaming high-end powerbrick.

Why get caught up in the "Oh we can't release the new 1.5 Ghz G3 ibook yet because the PB is only a 1.2 Ghz G4" mess again? Apple now has the chance to stert over, so why wouldn't they. Does an Apple branded laptop really have to be designated a PowerBook?:confused:

[golfstud]

http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/images/smiles/xyxthumbs.gif I'm so excited I'm going to have to wear Huggies during the MWSF keynote! http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/images/smiles/worried.gif

Great line! Jonathon your posts on these boards are generally great.

My prediction:
NEW mac mini with Front Row etc for SURE.
ILIFE 06
revised shuffles

one more thing....new IBOOKS

that is IT. NO POWERBOOKS. NO IMACS. AS for other INTEL CPUS:

You will see POWERBOOKS at either NAB or WWDC. FCP, Motion, etc all need universal binaries first..before PRO machines show up. You will see IMACS late summer early fall.

IF we are LUCKY we see new TOWER POWERMACS next JAN...but I bet it will be March 07' before intel power BEASTS.

(PS I get a laugh our of how everyone thinks INTEL is so much greater that PPC...INTELS new chips are cooler and consume less power for laptops...on the high end...mehh..the PPC is REAL stable if not HOT.)

[AidenShaw]

Ubuntu has a version for PPC, i dont understand why binary incompatiability would be a problem, you can always compile from the source
Maybe you and I can, but can your mother, sister, brother and uncle and grandfather?

The attitude "you can always compile from source" is fine for hackers and geeks, but it's not a good answer for a regular user who buys a webcam that says "Linux drivers included" at CompUSA and trys it on a PPC notebook.

Even though I can cope, it really irritates me to download a "driver" for a network card and to find out that it's really a zip that has a couple of .C files, a makefile, and a README that explains the edits that I have to make to the header files.

[MacTruck]

I'm gonna say that the powerbook gets the intel chips first. Why? Every time a new chip comes out the powerbook gets it. G4? The ibook still had the G3.

There will be 2 lines and they will be renamed. No more G4 or G5 in the name. The powerbook will have the dothan core and the ibook will have the G4 1.67ghz or the new 7448 moto chip.

The powerbook will have speeds up to 2.26 with a single core and 2mg cache. Then 3 months later the power book will get the new dual core intel chip yohah and the ibook will get the 1.73 dothan shortly therafter. All while this is happening the mac mini will get the 1.73 and 2ghz dothan chips and the new DVR functionality with front row. After about 3 months the mac mini will go yohan at 2ghz. With these mini enhancements nobody will think twice about moving to an intel mini, its just to compelling not to.

There won't be a problem with pro systems going intel because they will launch the pro software simultaneously. Adobe will also release its intel versions right away as well and everybody else will follow suit shortly thereafter.

Nobody will have to wait for virtual pc because apple will realeas an application to run windows natively on a seperate core while using osx. Its been shown before and is technically possible so apple will make this there largest selling point in the switch. This will be a wow factor for many people and will propell the intel transition.

Expect the G5 to move to dual dual core pentium Ds right away as well.

This would follow apples past history. You will see.

[oober_freak]

My half serious prediction. In January Apple will scrap their hit product the Powerbook. They'll come out with three iterations of one laptop line, the iBook. The 3 models:

The iBook. The iBook Nano. And the iBook shuffle.

Available in white and black.

(The iBook shuffle will be a revolutionary step, the first laptop to do away with the screen.)

and the nano's screen with scratch a lot :p

Seriously speaking, I think there are TOO many speculations and too many so-called experts giving their views. Don't be surprised if you see another "speculation" in a week's time.

One thing good though.. in this specualation junk.. every one has, thankfully, spared the powermac line.. bit of an achievement for them :p

[nagromme]

I think this would be a very unlikely situation, the only way you would send a virus would be if you recieved an attatchment with a virus (like a dodgy word macro or something) and fowarded it on. I'd like to think most people are smart enough to avoid such an event without the help of a virus checker
They're not :p I get viruses sent to me all the time. Not by people but BY viruses.

In other words, somebody I once knew got a virus, it harvested my email address from some file, and sent itself to me and everyone else. This happens to me a lot. And of course, does me no harm since I use a Mac.

The thing is, WHY on earth would I forward such a useless email to anyone else? I would have no reason to. So the buck stops here, with no anti-virus software needed.

The only way I could ever forward a virus to a Windows user is if someone sent me a REAL, useful, personal email--and accidentally attached a virus... and then I had some reason to forward that email to some third person. But even then, I'd see the attachment. I'd have a heads-up and not go forwarding a mystery attachment.

[Dm84]

Ubuntu has a version for PPC, i dont understand why binary incompatiability would be a problem, you can always compile from the sourceIt's easier said than done for most people. To make matters worse, instead of simply compiling the source, you have to re-compile all sorts of dependencies that aren't pre-compiled for PPC, and those dependencies require you to compile other dependencies. Before you know it compiling all those dependencies that are required in order to re-compile that one program can drag on for days or weeks, if you ever get it to compile at all.

Compiling Linux apps for PPC can become a total nightmare, unless you get off on that sort of stuff.

[BillyShears]

They may have a subnotebook called iBook nano.

[golfstud]

I'm gonna say that the powerbook gets the intel chips first. Why? Every time a new chip comes out the powerbook gets it. G4? The ibook still had the G3.


MacTruck...I like your reasoning. If you are right..then NO new IBOOKS or Powerbooks at MWSF. Only the MINI.

Why? The apps still are not ready for PB users. FCP, Photoshop, etc.
(unless ROSETTA is really stable and FAST, which I don't think it is)

Final Cut and Photoshop rock on a mac because of their stability...they just work. Powerbook users use these apps and more..I'm thinking now of the music guys that need Pro Tools and or Logic to fly.

MWSF is a consumer show and has been more so the last 2 years. BUT..we did see new Powerbooks there what??...4 years ago.

hmmm.

[AidenShaw]

The powerbook will have the dothan core and the ibook will have the G4 1.67ghz or the new 7448 moto chip.
This doesn't make sense, by January all the other Intel laptop makers will be using dual-core Yonah chips - Apple will look silly with a Dothan as their flagship laptop.

Apple can no longer be "independent" with their hardware releases, all the others will be shipping newer and faster chips on the day that they're released - Apple won't be able to wait months for a convenient venue where Jobs can stand in the spotlight and "surprise" y'all with a new Mac.


Then 3 months later ... the ibook will get the 1.73 dothan shortly therafter. All while this is happening the mac mini will get the 1.73 and 2ghz dothan chips and the new DVR functionality with front row.
Reasonable - since Apple's been telling developers that there will be Dothan systems.

It's also possible for the iBook and MiniMac to get Dothans at MWSF - if the PB has the dual-core Yonah then there's a real difference in "power" for the PB.


After about 3 months the mac mini will go yohan at 2ghz. With these mini enhancements nobody will think twice about moving to an intel mini, its just to compelling not to.
Except, that this means that the MiniMac will cream the iMac, and give the dual-core PowerMacs some real competition. Only the quad-core would be clearly faster than a MiniMac.


There won't be a problem with pro systems going intel because they will launch the pro software simultaneously. Adobe will also release its intel versions right away as well and everybody else will follow suit shortly thereafter.
Certainly not what Adobe says, nor anyone else who's working with CodeWarrior or has their own legacy cross-platform libraries.


Nobody will have to wait for virtual pc because apple will realeas an application to run windows natively on a seperate core while using osx. Its been shown before and is technically possible so apple will make this there largest selling point in the switch. This will be a wow factor for many people and will propell the intel transition.
Unlikely, at least so soon. There's also the little issue that if Windows is running in a VT virtual machine, OSX will be too (VT is underneath the OS). This would make Apple's hardware lock much easier to break....

(BTW, "run on a separate core" is not the way it works - OSX and Windows could run together on a single-core chip using VT.)


Expect the G5 to move to dual dual core pentium Ds right away as well.
I assume by "G5" you mean PowerMac....

I also assume that by "Pentium D" you mean a dual-core Xeon (you can't run dual Pentium D chips).

IMO Apple should release a tower system with x86 chips - as a supported transition system that will be sold alongside the PPC towers for as long as PPC is needed. These could be a dual-core Pentium D (single chip), or dual-dual Xeons. The Netburst chips could be retired as soon as Conroe chips are ready.

Developers need dual processor systems for testing the x86 pro apps....

What - no wild and crazy prediction about the iMac and iPod???

[Lacero]

What - no wild and crazy prediction about the iMac and iPod???
Well, the iMac was just updated, and iPod updates are always a given. ;)




Here's to the Crazy Ones http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=35452 (http://www.uriah.com/apple-qt/movies/think-different.mov)

[RichCoder]

I was excited about the move to Intel processors from the begining. It's interesting to see that everyone is now excited about it as well. But when the announcement came, most posters thought the world was going to end(for their precious macs at least). Now no new information has really changed since that announcement, but most people are now looking forward to the move.

Apple going with Intel... for Real? (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2005/06/20050603215703.shtml)

It might be interesting to post some of the "sky is falling" messages alongside the same user's recent posts.

I know this will get flamed, but just think about it the next time a major change is made.

[SiliconAddict]

When is the single-core variant of Yonah expected? Alongside Yonah or later? I forget. I thought that might make it into iBooks--epecially if PowerBooks came first.


Hmmm. I thought the single cores were due in Summer. :confused: Probably wrong though. My thinking originally was

iBooks: Dothan\Dothan ULV-> Yonah SC\Yonah SC ULV

PowerBooks: Yonah DC -> Merom DC


My thinking that once the PowerBooks start being equipped with Merom the iBooks get the Yonah single core. Gah. . . We never had this many problems speculating with the PPC. You generally had one or two options within a years period. Apple has to be like a kid in a candy shop with Intel.

[SiliconAddict]

I was excited about the move to Intel processors from the begining. It's interesting to see that everyone is now excited about it as well. But when the announcement came, most posters thought the world was going to end(for their precious macs at least). Now no new information has really changed since that announcement, but most people are now looking forward to the move.



*shrugs* Standard steps in dealing with grief:

denial - "Apple is doing this to coax IBM to give them better deals" "Jobs is keeping universal binary so they can go back to PPC one day."

anger - "What the hell is Jobs thinking? That dang dumb****! He's killing Apple. I'm done with them! Idiots!"

bargaining - "If Apple does this I will never use another Mac ever again"

Depression - WE STILL HAVE PEOPLE STUCK IN THIS STAGE

Acceptance - WOO HOO GO INTEL! Pentium M rocks!


Cut people some slack. Intel was part of Wintel all those years. The "evil" empire. Don't expect people to just accept things over night. And frankly a lot of Mac users didn't know much about Intel's upcoming roadmap. You would freak too if all you saw for Apple's future was a Pentium 4 PowerMac. *shudders* That is what has changed since the announcement. Intel's 2006/2007 roadmap has not only solidified but its looking dang good.

[irobot2003]

This all seems a little odd given that according to the latest from AppleInsider the Intel builds are still undergoing fairly massive changes...

Doesn't it take a month or two for Apple to turn a gold master into an actual CD available for sale?

They may announce that the mini will be first available Intel Mac and demo it, but I guess I'll be surprised if they're shipping anything before the March time frame...

[Multimedia]

Funny thing is we can't tell how much better this will be based on any XP reviews of it. But I have a feeling it will be a 1.67 GHz G4 KILLER. Why else would Apple make the switch? Moreover, two processors sharing a 2 MB cache has got to be a quantum leap desktop experience not to mention all the native Apple Applications like Final Cut Pro, Aperture and the all new iLife '06. :)

[iMeowbot]

Doesn't it take a month or two for Apple to turn a gold master into an actual CD available for sale?
They seem to get them out quicker than that for bundles with hardware. There won't be a boxed Tiger x86 release because all the supported machines will ship with it.

[generik]

This doesn't make sense, by January all the other Intel laptop makers will be using dual-core Yonah chips - Apple will look silly with a Dothan as their flagship laptop.

Apple can no longer be "independent" with their hardware releases, all the others will be shipping newer and faster chips on the day that they're released - Apple won't be able to wait months for a convenient venue where Jobs can stand in the spotlight and "surprise" y'all with a new Mac.



Reasonable - since Apple's been telling developers that there will be Dothan systems.

It's also possible for the iBook and MiniMac to get Dothans at MWSF - if the PB has the dual-core Yonah then there's a real difference in "power" for the PB.



Except, that this means that the MiniMac will cream the iMac, and give the dual-core PowerMacs some real competition. Only the quad-core would be clearly faster than a MiniMac.



Certainly not what Adobe says, nor anyone else who's working with CodeWarrior or has their own legacy cross-platform libraries.



Unlikely, at least so soon. There's also the little issue that if Windows is running in a VT virtual machine, OSX will be too (VT is underneath the OS). This would make Apple's hardware lock much easier to break....

(BTW, "run on a separate core" is not the way it works - OSX and Windows could run together on a single-core chip using VT.)



I assume by "G5" you mean PowerMac....

I also assume that by "Pentium D" you mean a dual-core Xeon (you can't run dual Pentium D chips).

IMO Apple should release a tower system with x86 chips - as a supported transition system that will be sold alongside the PPC towers for as long as PPC is needed. These could be a dual-core Pentium D (single chip), or dual-dual Xeons. The Netburst chips could be retired as soon as Conroe chips are ready.

Developers need dual processor systems for testing the x86 pro apps....

What - no wild and crazy prediction about the iMac and iPod???

Isn't Rosetta rumored to support Altivec now?

I really hope apple doesn't cripple VT support on the PB to support their own.. *interests*.

That would be a definite deal breaker.

[Jaffa Cake]

Don't forget to look at ALL the specs and bundled apps, and not just pick out a few details to compare. The common pitfall when people say Macs cost more.Unfortunately, it's a pitfall an awful lot of the computer-buying public fall into, and I can't see it changing....

[mdavey]

Does anybody think Apple will do away with the old iBook, PowerBook designations?

I do. Actually, I think it will go one of two ways. Either they'll introduce a single range of laptops and say that they have simpilified the product line, only to introduce a pro range 6-12 months later "responding to customer feedback".

Or, the consumer line will all be tablet Macs with 'traditional' laptops reserved for the Pro line.

When I say tablet Macs, they won't look like any tablet PC on sale today - they won't have the screen connected to the keyboard with a 360 degree hinge, they'll be a single slate with a completley separate (perhaps optional) laptop size keyboard.

[oober_freak]

*shrugs* Standard steps in dealing with grief:

denial - "Apple is doing this to coax IBM to give them better deals" "Jobs is keeping universal binary so they can go back to PPC one day."

anger - "What the hell is Jobs thinking? That dang dumb****! He's killing Apple. I'm done with them! Idiots!"

bargaining - "If Apple does this I will never use another Mac ever again"

Depression - WE STILL HAVE PEOPLE STUCK IN THIS STAGE

Acceptance - WOO HOO GO INTEL! Pentium M rocks!


Cut people some slack. Intel was part of Wintel all those years. The "evil" empire. Don't expect people to just accept things over night. And frankly a lot of Mac users didn't know much about Intel's upcoming roadmap. You would freak too if all you saw for Apple's future was a Pentium 4 PowerMac. *shudders* That is what has changed since the announcement. Intel's 2006/2007 roadmap has not only solidified but its looking dang good.

perfect description :)

Looking forward to a mactel laptop when i go to a MBA school one and half years hence :)

[iEdd]

Bring on the intel powerbook I say! <insert "Woohoo Pentium M ROCKS!!!!" here> :D

[backspinner]

...new naming...nice thought, I think along these lines as well

[BillyShears]

The problem of moving the mini first is that it means the mini would then outpower the iMac. Same problem as iBook or Powerbook.

The problem is if you move the lower-end computers first, they overpower the higher-end comptuers. If you move the higher-end computers first, they may not run all the apps which pro-users need.

My view (I've stated it in another thread, but I think it's relevant here) is that they will have to do the upper level products (PowerBook, iMac) first, but still offer PowerPC versions of those products. Similar to the OS9 transition, where they still offered computers that could boot into OS9 alongside OS X only computers.

An exception can be made, perhaps, for the Power Mac since it is able to host multiple processors, and heat is not a concern. Will a dual-core Yonah iMac outpower a Power Mac G5 quad? I don't think so, but I might be wrong.

They still need to work on Rosetta (as they have with Altivec support) and getting apps ported, so people are inclined to switch to Intel.

I think we may also hear that Apple has helped Adobe transition to Intel. Maybe by donating money or programmers. It would be a good idea, if Adobe would let Apple programmers look at their source code. Again, I say: maybe.

[mdavey]

Doesn't it take a month or two for Apple to turn a gold master into an actual CD available for sale?

Not anymore. There are plenty of professional CD and DVD duplication houses that can accept a .iso and a postscript of the artwork via FTP and have up to 100 000 copies sitting in your goods in within 24 hours. These places typically have ISO certification for quality control and verify the media so defects in the field are very small.

Nowadays, it normally takes longer for the packaging to be printed that it takes the media to be made.

[Hattig]

I'm gonna say that the powerbook gets the intel chips first. Why? Every time a new chip comes out the powerbook gets it. G4? The ibook still had the G3.

There will be 2 lines and they will be renamed. No more G4 or G5 in the name. The powerbook will have the dothan core and the ibook will have the G4 1.67ghz or the new 7448 moto chip.

The powerbook will have speeds up to 2.26 with a single core and 2mg cache. Then 3 months later the power book will get the new dual core intel chip yohah and the ibook will get the 1.73 dothan shortly therafter. All while this is happening the mac mini will get the 1.73 and 2ghz dothan chips and the new DVR functionality with front row. After about 3 months the mac mini will go yohan at 2ghz. With these mini enhancements nobody will think twice about moving to an intel mini, its just to compelling not to.

Yonah is being released in January, in little over 30 days.

If Apple release a Dothan powered PowerBook, they'll be laughed at. The PowerBook will utilise Yonah. Hell, even the iBook might utilise Yonah, but I actually think it will use Dothan. A 65nm Yonah processor is the same size as a 90nm Dothan however, so it doesn't cost more to make in terms of wafer area. 65nm yield may be a different issue however.

The real issue that using an Intel chip brings to Apple is that people will now directly compare clock speeds on laptops - therefore Apple has to use the best processors in the high end, and the best value in the low end, the same as all the other manufacturers - it can't use the different architecture to explain away clock differences. Regardless of the fact that a 2.26 GHz Windows laptop will be running anti-virus, anti-spyware and a slow interface whilst the Mac laptop won't have that overhead, and the interface will be done by the graphics card ... although Mac OS X does have its issues too (OpenGL could be a lot better - maybe the move to x86 will help here as ATI and nVidia will have a lot of optimisations for that platform).

Part of me can't help think that a lot of people will be disappointed come January - either because half the products they're expecting won't appear, or they'll be less than what they were hoping for.

[Stella]

Correct about virus attachments. But How do you know that the attachment, the Word document doesn't contain a macro virus - it could be quite innocent. Without opening it on a windows machine you would never know. Or those joke executables that you receive ( maybe you'd never run it yourself because you don't have windows machine , but you forward it on to other people ) that contain a virus. You yourself may not , but *others* will.

So, saying people never receive / forward on viruses unless they are stupid is not correct. Not all viruses arrive as spam.


I think this would be a very unlikely situation, the only way you would send a virus would be if you recieved an attatchment with a virus (like a dodgy word macro or something) and fowarded it on. I'd like to think most people are smart enough to avoid such an event without the help of a virus checker

[generik]

At least I just hope a 7448 will make it into the PB even if there is no Yonah :(

[shabbasuraj]

New PowerBooks will be released January 10, 2006...

...perhaps not.

[SiliconAddict]

Unfortunately, it's a pitfall an awful lot of the computer-buying public fall into, and I can't see it changing....

Hey if someone can't afford a Mac they can't afford a Mac.
Just because you get better bang for the buck on a Mac doesn't change the fact that a PC is cheaper. A relative picked up a $400 HP laptop for her son at Best Buy during black Friday last week. She couldn't plunk down a grand for a laptop. I'm not going to chastise someone if X price they can meet over Y.

[dernhelm]

All of this sounds pretty good - Apple ahead of schedule by 6 months or more, and possibly dropping Intels into laptop lines as well as consumer desktop lines. Not much to complain about here, right? :p

But actually, here's my prediction, before Spring (not necessarily MW) Apple will have entirely revamped their laptop lines. iBooks and Powerbooks will converge in form factor, but diverge in their processor lines. iBooks will use Dothan processors, Powerbooks will use Yonah, but both will sport widescreen form factor, and superdrive capabilities. Powerbooks will also be differentiated by use of PCI-Express replacable graphic cards (256MB) and full digital audio capabilities.

The deskop lines are more foggy. I can see the consumer desktops moving LAST, with Intel-based dual-dual PowerMacs being intoduced first, followed by the iMac.

All rumors point to the mini undergoing a bit of a transformation and becoming a livingroom box. If this does happen, I see Apple essentially moving to three seperate lines (well 5 or maybe 6, if you count consumer/professional variants):

Consumer laptop: iBook
Professional laptop: Powerbook
Consumer desktop: iMac
Professional desktop: PowerMac
Consumer Media Center: mini
"Pro-sumer" Media Center: ????

[odedia]

For me, the transition is very simple:

All 64-Bit machines, ie the iMac and the Powermac will have to wait for a 64-bit equivalent Intel processor, which will only be avaliable at the end of 2006.

As for the 32-Bit G4, they will ALL be replaced ASAP.

Oded S.

[stockscalper]

Apple is getting ready to take a pounding in the laptop market. While they're putting all their eggs in the Yonah (dual core successor to Pentium M) chip, pc laptop makers have announced they'll be coming out with laptops running the same chip. How is Apple going to compete selling laptops at four times what you can get the same chip elsewhere? There has to be more product differentiation in the consumer's eye in order to justify the much higher price tag and according to information released from Apple don't expect the prices for the new machines to be much different. Plus everytime in the past they've switched chips or made substantial platform changes they lose about half of their software developers. They're cooking their own goose by switching to the Intel platform unless they make OS X run on Wintel boxes and allow clones. Then it's a different ballgame.

[AidenShaw]

For me, the transition is very simple:

All 64-Bit machines, ie the iMac and the Powermac will have to wait for a 64-bit equivalent Intel processor, which will only be avaliable at the end of 2006.

As for the 32-Bit G4, they will ALL be replaced ASAP.
This might seem to make sense at first, but if you think about it there may be some flaws to the logic here....

PowerMac G5
Today has 64-bit processor, and supports more than 4 GiB of RAM. However, OSX 64-bit support on PPC is very weak (no GUI, no Cocoa, no Carbon) and almost no 64-bit applications exist. With the transition to Intel, Apple is unlikely to do anything to make OSX (PPC) have true 64-bit support - so that's a dead end.

In addition, Apple has said nothing in public about a roadmap for OSx64 (64-bit Intel) - so a 64-bit x64 chip will be completely 32-bit for the foreseeable future. So, you're not really taking advantage of 64-bit today, and there's no way to know what the future will be for OSx64!

iMac G5
Has a 64-bit CPU, but with a max of 2 GiB of RAM you can't even use the main advantage of 64-bit. You can't even use all of 32-bits - this is really a 31-bit machine.

Yonah will support 4 GiB of RAM, so a Yonah iMac could have twice the RAM of the G5 iMac.

Same OSx64 issues as the PM.

G4 systems (iBook, PB, MiniMac)
Seems a wash - 32-bit for 32-bit. But...

But 64-bit x64 chips are faster in 64-bit mode than in 32-bit mode due to changes in the ISA for 64-bit.
________________________

There's the potential of a real advantage to waiting for 64-bit Merom in the 'books and MiniMac - once Apple produces a true 64-bit OSx64, your systems will be faster on 64-bit apps - there's real incentive for apps to be ported to x64 (unlike OSX (PPC), where 64-bit typically will be a bit slower than the same app in 32-bit mode). Microsoft is even dropping the 32-bit versions of some major applications in the Longhorn Server timeframe - if you're running heavyweight apps, it's assumed that it will be on 64-bit x64 running true 64-bit Windows.

The lame OSX (PPC) 64-bit implementation won't help much - since gui/carbon/cocoa apps have to stay 32-bit. (And forget about many major apps being rewritten into 32-bit GUI/64-bit compute engine co-processing apps - Windows 64 is true 64-bit, so the Windows x64 version can get full 64-bit speed without being re-architected.)

If you get the 32-bit Dothan/Yonah systems, you'll never see that "free" (or probably $129) speed bump. On the other hand, the Intel chips will likely be quite a bit faster than the G4 from day 1 (at least on native and fat binary apps)...

By the way, about an earlier comment about running Windows and OSx86 side-by-side - VT will support running 32-bit OSx86 and 64-bit Windows together.... If Apple allowed this, it would pretty much kill native OSx86 support for many apps - why port to OSX when the Windows version runs 20% (or so) faster on the same hardware at the same time?

[essereli]

i wonder if Steve will do some stunning things:
1. A new product line with Intel CPU. And there will be no more PowerBook (as there is no more PowerPC)

2. Bring Newton back (of course with new name) using Intel processor for handheld, with WiFi connectivity

3. the true iPhone:eek:

[laughingboy]

I think January is early for most Intel based macs, although I'd love to see them across the board backed up by key pro apps being native...

Why I think the mac mini will be the first to go is because it will be a media centre version that will mainly be running Front Row 2.0. This will limit the load on Rosetta technologies etc, because it will sell at a premium and will be targetted at the living room TV.

Slowness, or incompatibility with non-intel applications will be minimized because few people will want to run photoshop on their media centre mac hooked up to their TV.

Just a thought that it may be more of an appliance than an Intel version of the mac.

[Epicurus]

All rumors point to the mini undergoing a bit of a transformation and becoming a livingroom box. If this does happen, I see Apple essentially moving to three seperate lines (well 5 or maybe 6, if you count consumer/professional variants):

Consumer laptop: iBook
Professional laptop: Powerbook
Consumer desktop: iMac
Professional desktop: PowerMac
Consumer Media Center: mini
"Pro-sumer" Media Center: ????


My take:

iBook: single core, black or white
PowerBook: dual core, aluminum (possibly darker, thinnner form factor)
iMac: dual core, black or white
PowerMac: dual dual core, aluminum (possibly darker, thinner)
mini: single core, bigger HDD (3.5"), integrated iPod dock (w/ IR remote)

The "Pro-sumer" Media Center might be where the mystery Asteroid/Garageband breakout box comes in. Something along the lines of a mini in terms of size and cost but with a lot more interface plugs, a bigger hard drive, and a more powerful processor (dual core?). If you add in an open PCI slot you've paved the way for DVR functionality.

Offering all the "i" line products (including the iPod) in two colors brings them more in line with each other without having to change much in the way of form factors. Trimming some of the fat off of the "Power" line and giving them a slightly darker tint distinguishes them from their older PPC versions. This is necessary since the PPC versions will probably still be sold right alongside the Intel boxes for some time to come. All the PPC iMacs and iBooks will vanish right away, but legacy PowerMacs will remain.

There's no way Jobs would announce all of these in one day. Its just too much fun to release a new product every other week and keep the rumor mills turning nonstop from Christmas straight through to the WWDC '06.

[mdavey]

iBooks and Powerbooks will converge in form factor, but diverge in their processor lines. iBooks will use Dothan processors, Powerbooks will use Yonah

Interesting - I think you are the first to put it exactly like this. Are the Dothan and Yonah pin-compatible? Could Apple offer a laptop in, say, three sizes with the same logic board where the only difference was the type (rather than speed) of processor that was fitted?

[mdavey]

iMac G5
Has a 64-bit CPU, but with a max of 2 GiB of RAM you can't even use the main advantage of 64-bit. You can't even use all of 32-bits - this is really a 31-bit machine.

The max is only 2 GiB because it has only got 2 SDRAM slots, right? Just like the max for the Mac mini is 1GiB because there is only one SDRAM slot.

As soon as prices for a 2GiB SDRAM stick fall low enough, Apple will offer it through their stores. At that point, both machines will support double the RAM they do today and customers will be able to choose to buy from Crucial, Kingston, Hynix or any of the other suppliers.

The only risk with this plan is that all the manufacturers jump over to DDR2 or some other emerging standard before the price falls enough thus preventing demand for the appropriate 2GiB stick ever reaching commodity levels.

[AidenShaw]

Are the Dothan and Yonah pin-compatible? Could Apple offer a laptop in, say, three sizes with the same logic board where the only difference was the type (rather than speed) of processor that was fitted?
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1852853,00.asp

This article says that Yonah needs the new Napa platform (945-series chipsets), not the 915 series that Dothan uses. (Makes sense, because Dothan's chipset wouldn't have dual-core support....)

It also implies that Merom (the 64-bit follow-on to Yonah) can also use the 945 chipset.

Other tidbits:

- Single core Yonah might have the "Celeron" brandname (iGary, you can do that "little thing" here)

- 945 will have "hardware accelerated multi-streaming high definition MPEG-2 playback"

Hmmm, a MiniMacMediaCenter with dual-core, hardware MPEG-2 decoding, CoreImage-capable integrated graphics, ...

[AidenShaw]

The max is only 2 GiB because it has only got 2 SDRAM slots, right? Just like the max for the Mac mini is 1GiB because there is only one SDRAM slot.
...
The only risk with this plan is that all the manufacturers jump over to DDR2 or some other emerging standard before the price falls enough thus preventing demand for the appropriate 2GiB stick ever reaching commodity levels.
Good point, and good observation about the risk - since DDR2 is fast becoming the Intel standard (no pun intended). When AMD switches to DDR2, then DDR will be doomed (as far as volume price breaks, that is).


As soon as prices for a 2GiB SDRAM stick fall low enough, Apple will offer it through their stores. At that point, both machines will support double the RAM they do today and customers will be able to choose to buy from Crucial, Kingston, Hynix or any of the other suppliers.
Unclear...

Apple may decide to:
- prevent 2 GiB DIMMs in iMac to avoid competition with PowerMacs
- prevent 2 GiB DIMMs in iMac to push buyers to the new Intel systems

You can't blame Apple for doing what's right by its shareholders, not what's right by its customers.

[nagromme]

They may announce that the mini will be first available Intel Mac and demo it, but I guess I'll be surprised if they're shipping anything before the March time frame...
I hope whatever is announced in Jan also SHIPS in Jan, but a month or two later is very possible--so we shouldn't get our hopes up. It will still be nice to KNOW (more) about what's coming. That is, assuming anything Intel is announced :)


MacTruck...I like your reasoning. If you are right..then NO new IBOOKS or Powerbooks at MWSF. Only the MINI.

Why? The apps still are not ready for PB users. FCP, Photoshop, etc.
(unless ROSETTA is really stable and FAST, which I don't think it is)
Photoshop will be a latecomer--but we've already seen it running in Rosetta, and that's enough for some people's needs. Not all of course. Other pro apps may well be ready sooner--especially Apple's own. But some will not.

This does NOT mean Apple has to wait. Releasing a new PowerBook before certain key apps are running at full speed IS less than ideal, you're right. But sticking with a G4 for months and months--while other laptop brands (which are already often faster then G4s) go dual core and keep getting faster--is ALSO not ideal. The PowerBook line is the line that most needs a CPU boost.

So there IS no "ideal" timing. There will ALWAYS be compromises. This is a big transition. For some it will happen sooner than ideal. For others, later than they'd wish. Apple's good at making big transitions easier for users, but there's only so much that is possible. Apple can't MAKE Photoshop ready sooner, and they can't (in my opinion) keep using G4s in their pro laptops for another year.

Also I haven't heard anything suggesting serious stability problems with Rosetta, and we HAVE heard impressive things about the speed. Full native speed? Hardly. But nothing like VPC sluggishness :o Even some 3D games apparently play in Rosetta so well you can't tell they're not native. I'd say it's going to vary a lot from app to app. And remember that Yonah has two big things going for it to help compensate: faster cores than the G4... and TWO of them! Rosetta's not ideal, but it IS a very good transitional technology. The biggest problem with it is that some apps would have needed to be patched to remove AltiVec. Supposedly that's no longer the case. AltiVec code may not run at nearly AltiVec speeds, but it will RUN. You'll have your apps and be able to work.

Where will Rosetta fall short the most? In lengthy calculations, I would say. Long video renders. Huge Photoshop filter sequences. 3D animation. Things where a bar used to crawl for 5 minutes... and now maybe it will crawl for 8. But most people with those tasks use a fast desktop for them anyway--not a PowerBook. If they use a PowerBook, they're giving up G5 speed. They can either accept giving up a little MORE speed--temporarily while the apps are converted--or THEY can choose to wait and keep their G4, while other people choose to go Intel sooner. And not every pro NEEDS top speed to stay in business. MANY pros are using less than the latest model because it's cost-effective to keep their machine a couple years. It still does the job. So can Rosetta.

Ideal? No. Not the end of the world, either. "Just keep your G4 then" is actually a pretty reasonable answer, if Motorola continues to be unable to deliver faster chips in volume. That means that the next year of G4s might not BE that much different from keeping what you have now. So be it--and give us the Intel PoweBooks because many people WILL be ready for them now.

And Apple has a simple option to ease the pain: even after Intel PowerBooks, keep selling the current G4 models to people who need them. If your mobile audio studio relies on a G4 laptop, and you'll need to buy another one next year--Apple might just sell it to you! They've quietly kept old and new lines side-by-side several times before--as long as demand is there: G3 iMacs kept selling long after the G4 iMac was out. OS 9 PowerMacs kept selling long after OS X PowerMacs were out. G4 PowerMacs kept selling after G5 PowerMacs were out. The same technique could help serve Mac users with varying needs next year.

So I don't think Apple will wait because of pro apps.

Therefore we may have to face the reality that:

* Some apps on the first Intel PowerBooks will, for months, run somewhat more slowly than on the top G4s--or at least not as fast as they will run later natively

* Other apps, and the OS as a whole, will run MUCH faster

* We'll have a new design and lower power usage

* The transition will end and Photoshop etc. will ultimately run at full speed

* But if the above just doesn't meet your needs, you can keep using G4 during the transition

That may not be a perfect reality--for a time--but it's plenty good enough for me :)

(Maybe some people will buy a Windows laptop early next year just because some key app is not yet native on Intel Macs, and because they can't tolerate Rosetta during the transition months, and because they don't care about security, privacy, easy maintenance, Tiger, Spotlight, Expos&#233;, and all the other Mac benefits. So be it. Apple can't stop them by staying with the G4. But Apple can offer something great to a lot of other people--like me :) --and a lot of people will switch TO the Mac because of the long-awaited Intel models.)

[SiliconAddict]

2. Bring Newton back (of course with new name) using Intel processor for handheld, with WiFi connectivity



The only way the Newton will come back is:

1. Steve retires.
2. Steve dies.

In either case I'm pretty sure there is a nuke hidden under Apple's HQ that will detonate if it detects a web page on Apple's site with the title "Newton" on it.

[AidenShaw]

The only way the Newton will come back is:

1. Steve retires.
2. Steve dies.

3. Steve notices all the R&D investment that Microsoft is putting into Windows Mobile, and comes to his senses

http://www.motorola.com/mot/image/12/12484_MotImage.jpghttp://www.audiovox.com/images/products_large/smt5600_y.jpghttp://www.telusmobility.com/images/pcs/utstarcom_6700_handset_open.gif
http://www.motorola.com/motoinfo/product/details/0,,113,00.html http://www.audiovox.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10001&storeId=10001&productId=13758&langId=-1

[SiliconAddict]

Apple is getting ready to take a pounding in the laptop market. While they're putting all their eggs in the Yonah (dual core successor to Pentium M) chip, pc laptop makers have announced they'll be coming out with laptops running the same chip. How is Apple going to compete selling laptops at four times what you can get the same chip elsewhere?

Ummm I hate to break this to you bud but Apple's laptops aren't selling NOW because they are the fastest on the market. Do you really think a 2.blahGHz Pentium M is going to be outdone by a 1.67Ghz G4?
Why people buy the iBook and the PowerBook is because of the design, the OS, and the apps. This isn't going to change moving to x86 other then possibly adding speed to the reasons as well.

What I'm about to say is going to stick in the guts of Mac users in a big way. I expect iGary to vomit just a little bit. Windows users are going to buy the x86 PowerBook and run Windows exclusively on them because Apple does make some of the best wares on the planet. So not only is Apple now selling laptops to Mac users but they are selling them to Windows users as well. How is this not a win, win situation for Apple? Watch as the first dual core x86 PowerBook sales fling the gates open and usher in a era of insane Apple hardware sales. You thought first gen G5 PowerMacs and G5 iMacs sold well. . .You ain’t seen nothing yet.

PS- Apple's laptops have NEVER (Strike that. . .I don't know what the first Apple laptops went for but in the past 7 years they have not sold for 4 times the PC counterpart. Don’t know about you but I haven’t seen a $5,000 laptop in a while. :rolleyes: At best the price gap is around $300-$700. And I don't know about you but I work around Dell laptops all day long. I'm willing to pay the premium if it means that I'm not going to get zapped on my wrists from a damn Latitude because the damn thing is poorly grounded. POS Dell. :mad:

[SiliconAddict]

3. Steve notices all the R&D investment that Microsoft is putting into Windows Mobile, and comes to his senses



But but but that requires that Steve admit that he was wrong. :eek: Its taken Apple how long to come out with a 2 button mouse and even now its not really a two button mouse but it is but...

Lets leave it at this. . . I'll believe it when the words pass Jobs's lips.

[blackcrayon]

i wonder if Steve will do some stunning things:
1. A new product line with Intel CPU. And there will be no more PowerBook (as there is no more PowerPC)

2. Bring Newton back (of course with new name) using Intel processor for handheld, with WiFi connectivity

3. the true iPhone:eek:


1. I think this has been mentioned many times before. The Powerbook was a "Power"book long before the PowerPC. I think the Powerbook brand recognition is too good for Apple to junk it just because they're moving to Intel cpus. The question is what will they put after Powerbook... Powerbook G3.. Powerbook G4... Powerbook PM? ;)

[nxent]

i'm thinking citigroup is just as in the dark as the rest of us...
nontheless, a couple things to consider... apple just released powerbook upgrades.... will they really release another upgrade/major overhaul after just a couple months? if they upgrade the ibooks in january, they risk creating the illusion that the new intel powered ibooks are 'better' than the powerbooks. so i'm thinking the january transition will be somethign small... tip of the iceburg type small, like the mac mini, then we'll see the powerbooks and ibooks do a simultaneous upgrade in april at the earliest, but most likely june of 06... small moves, ellie, small moves

[dernhelm]

Interesting - I think you are the first to put it exactly like this. Are the Dothan and Yonah pin-compatible? Could Apple offer a laptop in, say, three sizes with the same logic board where the only difference was the type (rather than speed) of processor that was fitted?

The dothan and the yonah are NOT pin compatible, although they are both 479 pin chips. AnandTech did a small review (http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2627) on this just a couple of days back...

So they would have to offer different logic boards, but I would guess that the physical form factor on these boards could be essentially identical.

[Surreal]

But but but that requires that Steve admit that he was wrong. :eek: Its taken Apple how long to come out with a 2 button mouse and even now its not really a two button mouse but it is but...

Lets leave it at this. . . I'll believe it when the words pass Jobs's lips.


no "admission" required or needed.

mighty mouse - "Who has time for intuitive, elegant design when there is so much clicking to do? " http://www.apple.com/mightymouse/design.html


got to love the humor

[dernhelm]

But but but that requires that Steve admit that he was wrong. :eek: Its taken Apple how long to come out with a 2 button mouse and even now its not really a two button mouse but it is but...

Lets leave it at this. . . I'll believe it when the words pass Jobs's lips.

Man let's not get too far into the mouse situation at Apple - it still isn't good. Not with the "mighty" one or the "mickey" one.

[dernhelm]

The question is what will they put after Powerbook... Powerbook G3.. Powerbook G4... Powerbook PM? ;)

iPowerbook? (i for intel of course)

But my guess is that it will simply be called Powerbook G5. Remember the 'G' designations were only used by Apple in the first place, if they want to call make G5 an intel chip, that's their perrogative.

[Frobozz]

I think it is feasible that the recent PowerBook updates for PowerPC will be kept, just as the PCI-X version of the PowerMac was kept. Or, for that matter, an eMac when the iMac was released.

Apple may keep a single model of PowerPC PowerBook available (but not heavily advertised) as a backup solution for "legacy" users.

And along these lines, one more naming convention is at stake ... the "Power" in PowerBook is for PowerPC ! I've thrown out a bunch of other ideas but this one could be interesting. I think they may stick with the Power monicker, but maybe they change? Now *that* would be big.

[Frobozz]

iPowerbook? (i for intel of course)

But my guess is that it will simply be called Powerbook G5. Remember the 'G' designations were only used by Apple in the first place, if they want to call make G5 an intel chip, that's their perrogative.

yes but both "Power" and the "G" are for PowerPC and the generation of that chip used. While the generation of chip was largely arbitartily drawn in the sand (silicon?) by Apple, it's still a throwback to that.

I have a feeling, given the long standing usefulness of "Power" in the name, that they may keep that. As for the "G", that has also been given a life of it's own, and increments in numbering nicely for consumers.

Perhaps the underpinnings to the naming scheme are no longer relevant or worth changing for the consumer. In which case I'd argue along side you with a "G" monicker.

PowerBook G5, G5i, or just "5" ?

[Frobozz]

i'm thinking citigroup is just as in the dark as the rest of us...
nontheless, a couple things to consider... apple just released powerbook upgrades.... will they really release another upgrade/major overhaul after just a couple months? if they upgrade the ibooks in january, they risk creating the illusion that the new intel powered ibooks are 'better' than the powerbooks. so i'm thinking the january transition will be somethign small... tip of the iceburg type small, like the mac mini, then we'll see the powerbooks and ibooks do a simultaneous upgrade in april at the earliest, but most likely june of 06... small moves, ellie, small moves

I had a comment above that talked about this, but my belief is the PowerPC PowerBooks are meant to stay around while the new Intel based PowerBooks are in full swing. At least for a while. This helps with mission critical PowerPC applications for "legacy" users. After all, the changes made in the most recent upgrade will not be lost or go unused in either case.

[iEdd]

PowerBook G5, G5i, or just "5" ?
How about Powerbook i5 or Powerbook i-V (intel 5, not roman numerals for 4)

[dagtech]

i was running Tiger x86 in vmware this morning. i booted it up, took a shower, read a few articles on cnn.com, looked up and it was done. really really fast

[nagromme]

the "Power" in PowerBook is for PowerPC !
It isn't: PowerBooks existed for years before there were PowerPCs.

But even if it did mean that (as it originally did with Power Macs), it's a generic term that Apple can use as they like. I expect pro Macs will still be called Power Macs. PowerPCMac would be a problem, but PowerMac isn't.

But I think you're exactly right about some old G4 laptop models lingering on while demand still exists.

[speleoterra]

stevie has to have know longn before they announced their departure from IBM that Intel could make a commitment to a chip for a G5 PB. I say that their statements of when they would be ready were inflated so that they can release it sooner and look amazing. and if APPLE was spending all thet time trying to get a hot IBM chip inside that doesnt mean they still could not have been developing the PB. Also, laptops outsell desktops so it makes sense to PB & iBook them 1st. They also would have to have Frontrow with a built in iSight,....very possible in Jan.

[dernhelm]

How about Powerbook i5 or Powerbook i-V (intel 5, not roman numerals for 4)

I like it! Powerbook iv (intravenous). Forget arms and legs, Apple wants BLOOD for these!

[speleoterra]

The question is what will they put after Powerbook... Powerbook G3.. Powerbook G4... Powerbook PM? ;)

I believe Apple own the G3, G4, G5 terms as they are for "Generation 5" so in theory they can keep going, G6, G7, G8..etc. not hinged on what type of chip is inside, even though thats how they market it.

[reflex]

I suppose in theory they COULD choose to keep the G naming. Neither IBM nor Motorola owns the G series naming. It's an Apple thing. They've applied it to PowerPC generations, but they COULD do something else with it if they wished.

My money is on M1 (as in Pentium-M) :D

[AidenShaw]

I believe Apple own the G3, G4, G5 terms as they are for "Generation 5" so in theory they can keep going, G6, G7, G8..etc. not hinged on what type of chip is inside, even though thats how they market it.
http://www.pontiac.com/images/gallery/g6coupe/sm_image13_lrg.jpg
http://motortrend.com/roadtests/sedan/112_0402_first_pontiac/

[plinden]

Edit: removed my comment.

[heisetax]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Citigroup analyst Richard Gardner (http://news.com.com/Apple+may+launch+Intel+laptops%2C+analyst+says/2100-1044_3-5976771.html?part=rss&tag=5976771&subj=news
) claims that Apple is poised to release an Intel-based laptop as early as January. Additionally, Gardner forsees Apple becoming a $20 billion company in 2006.

It is not known if Gardner is looking at new information from Apple, or simply responding to recent rumors (1 (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2005/11/20051117022422.shtml), 2 (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2005/11/20051129005319.shtml)) of Intel-based Apple hardware being ready for debut at MacWorld San Francisco.


Maybe the dual IBM-Motorola PPC / Intel versions of OS X is not really ready for use as a system that can run realiabally on the Intel Macs. Also there may not be enough software ready to make the Intel Macs usuable. Remember the software companies were given a time for their software to be ready by. With the information given in this it sounds like it would be difficult for all of the software to be ready when Apple is still adding parts back into the Intel version. It may be ready for simple things by the middle of the year. But there seems to be too many missing pieces for a January release of Intel Mac software.

Bill the TaxMan

[Eniregnat]

Guess work and echo chambers

Let us remember that unconfirmed sources can often be echos of themselves.

Apple is the kind of company that could make it happen, but time and time again analysts have spoken about upgrades to the PB line, for instance, only to find that nothing has happened. I wonder if failed expectations hurt Apple?

[AidenShaw]

I wonder if failed expectations hurt Apple?
No, Apple hurts itself by failing to live up to expectations....

[EricNau]

No, Apple hurts itself by failing to live up to expectations....
They'll live up to expectations this time, they won't be taking any chances. Apple knows what it's done wrong in the past.

[nagromme]

Maybe the dual IBM-Motorola PPC / Intel versions of OS X is not really ready for use as a system that can run realiabally on the Intel Macs. Also there may not be enough software ready to make the Intel Macs usuable.
Six months ago, Intel Macs were already usable for iLife, Safari, Mail, etc.--and Photoshop and Word were demonstrated quite nicely in Rosetta, which may have just gained AltiVec support. Many developer reports talk about porting apps to Intel in hours or days. That will vary a LOT, but January is seven months that developers have had. So although not every app will run at top speed next month, many will. And most if not all of the rest will at least run usably in January, even if they get faster later in the year. Plus, an announcement in January could mean shipping in February... and even longer before a huge critical mass of users actually have them in hand. That could buy even more time for developers.

I know I'm being optimistic to think Intel Macs WILL be announced next month... but it's far from out of the question.

As for Steve's timetable: he said "in the market BY June." He didn't give a firm date, he gave a LATEST date. Certainly with some cushion in it, since he was talking about a year later. Apple may very well not begin as late as that latest date. And developers know that. They weren't promised until June. They also have always known that MWSF is a big annual event, and have likely shared our speculation that it marks the earliest end of the possible range.

Or (some) developers may even KNOW the final timetable, under NDA. They may already know they have just 2-3 more months. (Late Jan.-late Feb. shipping date.) Which is actually a long time for even MORE apps to get ready.

[steve_hill4]

Can't remember whether this has been mentioned before, (I'm sure it has, but possibly not in this topic), but on the colour front, this image demonstrates that a darker or black PowerBook would still look great, assuming that they keep the styling almost exactly the same:

http://www.apple.com/powerbook/wireless.html

[Cooknn]

From the Private Submissions forum...I cannot reveal much more other than confirm that an Intel PowerBook made by ASUStek will complement the current PowerBook line early next year. I do not know the specifications but I have seen materials with the phrase "PowerBook Duo" printed on them.So maybe the Intel PowerBook *will* hit the streets first :eek:
http://www.listing360.com/temp/duo.jpg

[steve_hill4]

From the Private Submissions forum...So maybe the Intel PowerBook *will* hit the streets first :eek:

I was thinking similar things when peoplae started talking about dual core PowerBooks and single core iBooks. PowerBook Duo2 perhaps for this line, then followed up by Duo3 and so on. They could even adopt a similar naming strategy for the other lines, with maybe the iBook being called the Uni, (also fits in with the students, a lot of who use the iBook, ironically enough), and then as it switches to Dual core, Duo2 as well.

[SiliconAddict]

From the Private Submissions forum...So maybe the Intel PowerBook *will* hit the streets first :eek:
http://www.listing360.com/temp/duo.jpg


Hmmm PowerBook MCore.

[gnasher729]

How is Apple going to compete selling laptops at four times what you can get the same chip elsewhere?

Show me where you get the same laptop _any_ cheaper.

You are making the same, old mistake of comparing the cheapest of the cheap that Dell can advertise (but you won't be able to buy it at that price if they can help it) with the price of a quality product. And remember that we are talking here about dual processor Yonah chips, not about the old bangers that you find in a cheap laptop.

[steve_hill4]

Show me where you get the same laptop _any_ cheaper.

You are making the same, old mistake of comparing the cheapest of the cheap that Dell can advertise (but you won't be able to buy it at that price if they can help it) with the price of a quality product. And remember that we are talking here about dual processor Yonah chips, not about the old bangers that you find in a cheap laptop.
I agree, the cheapest laptops all tend to have Celeron M's in them. To get to Pentium M, you need to go to prices that aren't much cheaper than iBooks, if at all.

[AidenShaw]

I agree, the cheapest laptops all tend to have Celeron M's in them. To get to Pentium M, you need to go to prices that aren't much cheaper than iBooks, if at all.
And what's wrong with that? Why can't Apple BTO the CPU that you want, like Dell?

See http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=555&l=en&oc=MLB1610&s=biz:

Intel® Pentium® M Processor 770 (2.13 GHz/2MB Cache/533MHz FSB) [add $400]
Intel® Pentium® M Processor 760 (2 GHz/2MB Cache/533MHz FSB) [add $200]
Intel® Pentium® M Processor 750 (1.86 GHz/2MB Cache/533MHz FSB) [add $100]
Intel® Pentium® M Processor 740 (1.73 GHz/2MB Cache/533MHz FSB) [Included in Price]


Why not give the customer the choice of a $699 iBook with a 1.4 GHz Celeron M, or a $999 iBook with a 2 GHz Pentium M, or a $1299 iBook with a dual-core 2.13 GHz Yonah?

The customer can make choices like that from Dell and HP, and pretty soon Apple will be just another Intel shop....

[nagromme]

I cannot reveal much more other than confirm that an Intel PowerBook made by ASUStek will complement the current PowerBook line early next year. I do not know the specifications but I have seen materials with the phrase "PowerBook Duo" printed on them.
The Duo is back? :D

I predicted "PowerBook D" or "PowerBook Dual" earlier in this thread. But the Duo was the first Mac I REALLY wanted (and never got), so the name works for me :)

But that note raises an interesting possibility:

I've assumed that Apple would keep selling a G4 model or three "quietly on the side" after the Intel machines come out. Choice is good, in a transition.

But what if Apple slants it the other way? What if, at first, they keep the current PBG4s as the "main" product line, and introduce an "early-adopter" Intel PowerBook as a choice for those who want it? Marketed correctly, it could avoid a lot of the flak from users who wish more apps were ready. They'd KNOW it was an early-adopter "special" product. And I bet it would sell like hotcakes even so.

And Apple might do this with the PB as a test for doing something similar with PowerMacs later on.

Then, gently transition the Intel machines from "an option" to "the main line." When the time is right.

Still not ideal--choice means confusion--but Apple would promote ONE line (PPC or Intel) as the main PowerBook line, and carefully choose when to change their stance. They'd keep it simple.

If there have to be compromises in this switch (and there DO have to be), then this might be a great way to handle them.

And I still get my Intel PowerBook ASAP :)

[supersalzme]

Do you think they will be coming out with a 17" in january? Everyone seems to say wait for the 2nd gen's of the new powerbooks....and I'm guessing that will be 4 or 5 months. I was going to go with a 15" inch...but with all the screen problems...I don't mind shelling out the extra cash for the 17". Good or bad idea? I'm going to be using it for mostly daily applications...but also some protools recording. Good or bad idea?

[iEdd]

And what's wrong with that? Why can't Apple BTO the CPU that you want, like Dell?

See http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=555&l=en&oc=MLB1610&s=biz:

Intel® Pentium® M Processor 770 (2.13 GHz/2MB Cache/533MHz FSB) [add $400]
Intel® Pentium® M Processor 760 (2 GHz/2MB Cache/533MHz FSB) [add $200]
Intel® Pentium® M Processor 750 (1.86 GHz/2MB Cache/533MHz FSB) [add $100]
Intel® Pentium® M Processor 740 (1.73 GHz/2MB Cache/533MHz FSB) [Included in Price]


Why not give the customer the choice of a $699 iBook with a 1.4 GHz Celeron M, or a $999 iBook with a 2 GHz Pentium M, or a $1299 iBook with a dual-core 2.13 GHz Yonah?

The customer can make choices like that from Dell and HP, and pretty soon Apple will be just another Intel shop....
It's not a bad idea, but I could imagine all the "Plz help! my rev a celeron mac died!" as apple had spent more time optimizing Pentium M compatibility. And also to avoid being an intel shop, I think they should just have the 750 and 760 or maybe 760 and 770. I don't know how apple do things these days :p

[AidenShaw]

It's not a bad idea, but I could imagine all the "Plz help! my rev a celeron mac died!" as apple had spent more time optimizing Pentium M compatibility. And also to avoid being an intel shop, I think they should just have the 750 and 760 or maybe 760 and 770. I don't know how apple do things these days :p
Celeron M and Pentium M are the same chip, no visible difference except for the speed.

[speleoterra]

just label them...

Powerbook i06
Powerbook i07
etc

then you know it s intel and what year its from

[ZorPrime]

I like it! Powerbook iv (intravenous). Forget arms and legs, Apple wants BLOOD for these!

I think you’ve touched on something significant that is in the works… does anyone remember the announcement/rumor of Sony engineers working on the next generation of PowerBooks? Is it really a coincidence? Sony was awarded a potential mind control patent based upon acoustical technology and is working on an EMF (electromagnetic field) version of that same acoustical technology… imagine Bluetooth being modified so the user can smell, hear, see in an “enhanced way”. Imagine being able to smell the stench of zombies in Resident Evil 4 or the blooming of the last fresh forest flowers before the extinction of man in Spielberg’s AI. :eek:

The PPC and AIM may be “End OF Line” in the consumer PC world but it by far isn’t dead. Steve Jobs knows this and Apple will continue to make $$s off the PPC since Apple hasn’t disassociated itself from AltiVec/Velocity Engine/VMX and the intellectual property associated with its development. :cool: I will miss the PPC Mac :( , as I am an adamant PPC fan boy, but whatever keeps Apple in business is good for everyone, IMHO (does that mean: In my humble opinion?). :confused:

I still miss the Moto 68k series, the potential of the 060 and still have and use my Performa 636CD. I’m really enjoying my new 17” PowerBook (my first laptop). :o I’m also looking forward to including the G5 quad to my Mac family as well. As history shows, the Mac OS can handle any CPU platform. 10 years of CISC, 10 years of RISC, and back to CISC, maybe in 10 years the Mac OS will return to RISC… right when people are able to smell and feel what they see, thanks to Sony and the PPC. :cool:

what does this have to do with the intel transion and intel PBs in Jan... not much. Okay, it’s been a long week and I shouldn’t have accepted that last shot of tequila… :o

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=6,729,337.WKU.&OS=PN/6,729,337&RS=PN/6,729,337
http://www.we-make-money-not-art.com/archives/005275.php
http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2005/07/20050730180556.shtml

[chevyorange]

I've never had a laptop, always desktop Macs, but my next machine will the high end 17" PowerBook ... probably when the rev b Intels roll.

[clembo]

If (?) Intel products are announced in the new year I think all the G4 products will be moved to Intel at the same time. The PM G5 and iMac G5 have had good recent updates and can come later. It's G4 where Apple is behind. Here is the reasoning.

Portables: Apple badly needs to differentiate between the PBook and iBook ranges (try telling the difference between i and p books at the moment and market segment are important at least to marketeers) If you look at the history of the Mac, pro v consumer, they have been quite willing to put much lower power processors in the consumer ranges. Anything else aside the Celeron M (now to be renamed the 300 range by Intel) in the i Book on much the same form factor inc screen and resolution size and Pentium M (to be called the 500 range) in Powerbooks for pros would provide that differentiation. They might even drop i and p prefix and go with 300 and 500 suffix. They then wouldn't have to hack the the graphics hardware to run mirroring etc. It would also mean Superdrives on all portables.

Mac Mini: With a Pentium M this machine would compete on a par with 'Lifestyle' PC's on the hardware front and have the advantage of OSX and if the rumours are correct the enhancements to iTunes (aka iVideo distribution? the model works) etc.

Applications, well the i apps will do for many particularly if a spread sheet and perhaps drawing is included and I figure that the key issue is media. Apple wants, I guess, to own the hardware or at least be the lead player and by owning the means of distribution they would have the market sewn up.

[steve_hill4]

Portables: Apple badly needs to differentiate between the PBook and iBook ranges (try telling the difference between i and p books at the moment and market segment are important at least to marketeers) If you look at the history of the Mac, pro v consumer, they have been quite willing to put much lower power processors in the consumer ranges. Anything else aside the Celeron M (now to be renamed the 300 range by Intel) in the i Book on much the same form factor inc screen and resolution size and Pentium M (to be called the 500 range) in Powerbooks for pros would provide that differentiation. They might even drop i and p prefix and go with 300 and 500 suffix. They then wouldn't have to hack the the graphics hardware to run mirroring etc. It would also mean Superdrives on all portables.
I don't think Apple will ever use Celeron M's. They might use single core Yonahs, while the PB takes the dual core, but the Celeron looks to already have been ruled out. Also, I don't think that naming scheme would be popular, and they would have to come out with something similar to their current naming standard.

[AidenShaw]

I don't think Apple will ever use Celeron M's. They might use single core Yonahs....
An article that I referenced yesterday said that Intel would probably use the brand name "Celeron" for the single core Yonahs. Here's a link to another story with the same claim.... http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1852868,00.asp

It makes a lot of sense for a single-core Yonah to be sold as a Celeron.

The current Celeron M chips are Dothans, with half the cache and a slightly slower bus and slower speeds. The slower bus is a market segmentation choice.

The half-cache, however, is a clever way for Intel to increase chip yields and salvage mostly-working chips.

The 2 MiB cache on a Dothan accounts for a large portion of the area of the Dothan chip - in the following photograph the cache is the regular area covering the left side of the chip:
http://biznes.pclab.pl/zdjecia/artykuly/pila/sonoma/dothan.jpg
(See a big picture at http://biznes.pclab.pl/zdjecia/artykuly/pila/sonoma/dothan-rdzen.jpg, along with a story at http://biznes.pclab.pl/art13670.html .)

In case there's a defect on the wafer, there's over a 50% chance that the defect will land in the cache - since the cache is over 50% of the area of the chip. Intel can disable the half of the cache with the defect, and sell the chip as a Celeron for a low price - rather than discarding the mostly-working silicon.

With Yonah, not only can they disable part of the cache, but a defect that affects only one core can similarly be handled - the defective core can be disabled and the remaining core sold as a single-core Celeron M (Yonah).

The slower GHz of the chip is also a way to get more saleable chips from the wafer. A chip that fails to run reliably at Pentium M speeds might be perfectly fine at Celeron M speeds. In this case, the extra cache and second core would be disabled (even though they might be good) and the chip would be a Celeron M (Yonah).

[nagromme]

I've always assumed Yonah would be the new pentium M, while the single-core version would be the Celeron M. Not sure if I read that somewhere or not.

But what I never seem to run across is a CODE name for the single-core version of Yonah. Perfect for iBooks--although Dothan is ready now.

[generik]

I don't think Apple will ever use Celeron M's. They might use single core Yonahs, while the PB takes the dual core, but the Celeron looks to already have been ruled out. Also, I don't think that naming scheme would be popular, and they would have to come out with something similar to their current naming standard.

Why not?

The current iBooks are essentially crippled G4s with a piss poor FSB too.

Apple will do ANYTHING to save pennies as well as to divide their line into distinct market segments. That said I'd say it is a safe bet to say that Celerons will never be used on the PowerBooks.

[steve_hill4]

An article that I referenced yesterday said that Intel would probably use the brand name "Celeron" for the single core Yonahs.

Makes a lot of sense.

Here's a link.... http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1852868,00.asp
No, intel plan on using the name Core for Yonah, with Solo or Duo referring to whether they are single or dual core.

http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20051203/index.html

[steve_hill4]

Why not?

The current iBooks are essentially crippled G4s with a piss poor FSB too.

Apple will do ANYTHING to save pennies as well as to divide their line into distinct market segments. That said I'd say it is a safe bet to say that Celerons will never be used on the PowerBooks.
I guess, but I always assumed, (as I think a lot around here did), that Apple would want single core Yonahs in the iBooks and dual core for the PowerBooks.

I guess iBooks could have Celeron M and PowerBooks get Core Duos, but that would put iBooks potentially lower spec than equally priced, (or even some cheaper), Windows laptops out there already. That would be a poor move for Apple, and we have been used to seeing the same/similar processors in both mobile lines. The only time we haven't had the same lines really is when we still had the iBook G3 and the PowerBook was G4. That wasn't really the same as Celeron and Pentium M's though.

[AidenShaw]

No, intel plan on using the name Core for Yonah, with Solo or Duo referring to whether they are single or dual core.

http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20051203/index.html
Very interesting, thank you. In particular, the roadmap for 2006-2008 on page http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20051203/top_secret_intel_processor_plans_uncovered-04.html is good.

So, my description of how the lower end chips currently marketed as "Celerons" is still valid, but if Tom's is true then the "slighly defective" chips will have a marketing name that's different from today's "Celeron".

Maybe the name change will help iGary avoid spitting up a little, even though it makes no difference technically. :D

[AidenShaw]

I guess, but I always assumed, (as I think a lot around here did), that Apple would want single core Yonahs in the iBooks and dual core for the PowerBooks.

I guess iBooks could have Celeron M and PowerBooks get Core Duos, but that would put iBooks potentially lower spec than equally priced, (or even some cheaper), Windows laptops out there already.
It would make more sense to add the CPU speed/type to the BTO menu, so the buyer could choose how much money to spend?

Imagine the Apple Store menu:

iBook $699

1.4 GHz Celeron M [standard]
1.8 GHz Pentium M [add $150]
2.2 GHz Pentium M [add $400]
2.1 GHz dual-core Pentium M [add $600]


Wouldn't that be sweet?

[steve_hill4]

Very interesting, thank you. In particular, the roadmap for 2006-2008 on page http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20051203/top_secret_intel_processor_plans_uncovered-04.html is good.
Don't thank me, thank plinden http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=1955482#post1955482

The new logos look nice, but I have to say that if Apple stick one on my Rev. A Intel PowerBook, it's coming straight off. If you leave it on there, even for one week, the colour around it could potentially change enough to be able to see where the sticker was.

[steve_hill4]

It would make more sense to add the CPU speed/type to the BTO menu, so the buyer could choose how much money to spend?

Imagine the Apple Store menu:

iBook $699

1.4 GHz Celeron M [standard]
1.8 GHz Pentium M [add $150]
2.2 GHz Pentium M [add $400]
2.1 GHz dual-core Pentium M [add $600]


Wouldn't that be sweet?
Perhaps, but I think the BTO options would restrict you to the same processor type, just different speeds. Apple don't often let you customise to that extent, but with intel, perhaps times are changing in more areas than one.

[AidenShaw]

Perhaps, but I think the BTO options would restrict you to the same processor type, just different speeds. Apple don't often let you customise to that extent, but with intel, perhaps times are changing in more areas than one.
Remember "Celeron" isn't really a different processor type, it's the same processor with a different marketing name.

Has Apple ever used different MPC74xx chips, or different PPC970xx chips, in different models at the same time?

I understand that for market segment positioning it wouldn't be necessary to have all possible CPU options it all systems. It would be reasonable, IMO, to make iBook/MiniMac have Celeron->Dothan options, and pBook/iMac to have Dothan->Yonah options.

[nagromme]

I had thought Pentium/Celeron and Core/Core Duo were to be used together, like Pentium M Core Duo, but it looks like Pentium and Celeron are both out the window, at least for portables!

"Core" is kind of an odd name, but I like it much better than Pentium or Celeron for sure. I wonder if the desktop chips (Sossaman, Conroe) will get a new name to replace Pentium too? Sossaman could just be Core, I suppose: it's not REALLY necessary to name mobile CPUs differently.

The new name will "waste" some Pentium/Celeron brand awareness, but people will get over it, and all companies including Apple will be affected by the temporary confusion. Meanwhile, it makes the point that Intel is going in a new and better direction than the P4.

I think my future holds a Core Duo soon, joined by a Conroe PowerMac later. (Then again Intel has quad-core packages already taped out, due in 2007...) And eventually, a Merom-based ultra-portable? Please?

PS, Tom's Hardware is the first time I'd heard Sossaman referred to as a server processor. I'd thought it was for desktops, preceding Conroe just like Yonah precedes Merom.

PPS, they made not slap Intel Inside stickers on top of a PowerBook, but steel yourself to see them on Apple's home page when Intel Macs become the headline :D

[AidenShaw]

I had thought Pentium/Celeron and Core/Core Duo were to be used together, like Pentium M Core Duo, but it looks like Pentium and Celeron are both out the window, at least for portables!

PS, Tom's Hardware is the first time I'd heard Sossaman referred to as a server processor. I'd thought it was for desktops, preceding Conroe just like Yonah precedes Merom.
Now you know why names like Prescott, Northwood, Deschute, Banias and others are still being used - they're still very useful to identify the chip family from the marketing name.

Of course, that shouldn't seem unusual to Mac users - "Powerbook G4" now refers to about 17 different models of laptops....:cool:

[steve_hill4]

Remember "Celeron" isn't really a different processor type, it's the same processor with a different marketing name.

Has Apple ever used different MPC74xx chips, or different PPC970xx chips, in different models at the same time?

I understand that for market segment positioning it wouldn't be necessary to have all possible CPU options it all systems. It would be reasonable, IMO, to make iBook/MiniMac have Celeron->Dothan options, and pBook/iMac to have Dothan->Yonah options.
Well, Celeron's are stripped down versions of the standard processors. So a Celeron M is a Pentium M with slower FSB and less cache. So you could argue they are different processors, but, as you state, they aren't really that different.

I just can't see Apple allowing the marketing names to confuse the consumer as they come to apple.com and BTO their iBook. The Yonah could be say $50 more than the same clock speed Celeron, and consumers wouldn't really understand what extra they are paying for. To simplify things, I would prefer to see Apple stick with one processor per range and just have potential speed differences if they allow us to customise.

[nagromme]

I wonder if Conroe and Merom will just be called Core as well?

OK, here are my updated predicted announcements:

Jan.-Mar. (some announced at MWSF):

Mac Mini (same name, Dothan/Pentium M, Front Row; no high-end home theater/PVR stuff--maybe another product for that?)

iBook M (or just "iBook," Dothan/Pentium M)

PowerBook D (Yonah/Core Duo, iSight)

Keep selling one 15" PowerBook G4 on the side

Spring, once Yonah1 is out:

iBook S (or keep "iBook," now Yonah1/Core Solo)

Mac Mini (same name, now Yonah1/Core Solo)

Updated iMac G5

Updated PowerMac G5 duals and quads

Fall, including Apple Expo:

PowerBook D (same name, now Merom dual core)

iMac D (Conroe dual core)

PowerMac D (Conroe dual core)

PowerMac Quad (Conroe dual-dual core)

Mac Mini updated

iBook updated

Keep selling one PowerMac G5 dual on the side

Later:

Xserve (same name, Woodcrest)

Discontinue leftover PowerPC Macs

Note: "D" models COULD be "Duo," and "S" could be "Solo"--as in "PowerBook Duo"--but it would be odd (maybe illegal?) to use Intel's own trademark in an Apple product name. Plus, PowerBook Duos have been done :D (Tech notes would have to specify "PowerBook Duo" vs. "PowerBook Duo non-1900s.")

[generik]

Well, Celeron's are stripped down versions of the standard processors. So a Celeron M is a Pentium M with slower FSB and less cache. So you could argue they are different processors, but, as you state, they aren't really that different.


Don't they have the same FSB too?

[AidenShaw]

I just can't see Apple allowing the marketing names to confuse the consumer as they come to apple.com and BTO their iBook. The Yonah could be say $50 more than the same clock speed Celeron, and consumers wouldn't really understand what extra they are paying for. To simplify things, I would prefer to see Apple stick with one processor per range and just have potential speed differences if they allow us to customise.
No need to duplicate or overlap speeds (there isn't much overlap anyway - the 90nm Celeron M is 1.3 to 1.6 GHz, and the latest 90nm Pentium M is 1.6 to 2.26 GHz).

Offer one low-price iBook option of the 1.3 GHz Celeron M, then jump to the 1.6 Pentium M, and work up through the PM range picking two or three additional steps.

That gives a nice low-price entry for the schools and the Sunday newspaper adverts, and the option for faster if you're willing to spend the bucks.

[AidenShaw]

Don't they have the same FSB too?
Same FSB, but Celeron M clocks at a max of 400 MHz, Pentium M does 400 or 533 MHz.

[clembo]

Having read all the recent posts I have to hold to my view that there will be two ranges of notebooks, consumer/education and pro. If we look at usability screen size/resolution is a key issue. I am inclined to think that Apple will introduce the new intel iBook at a new lower price point as per the Mac Mini. Having one 13 inch screen iBook would keep nobody happy.

(Personally I now wish I had gone for the 12 inch when I bought because portability has become much more of an issue for me). Look at the demand for X series IBM machines on ebay with 12 inch screen and external optical drive.

If you think back to the 'mess' of models before Steve Jobs returned to Apple I can't see them going down that route again.

I do wonder though what's in store following the deals Apple has done to secure flash memory supplies. Maybe we are all looking in the wrong direction. Think of a P Book with an external optical and no hard disc, just flash memory and bootable from the external drive in emergency. Slim as wafer and battery life to die for!

What was that eMate thingy!

Odds on somebody is in for a surprise.

[nagromme]

Think of a P Book with an external optical and no hard disc, just flash memory and bootable from the external drive in emergency. Slim as wafer and battery life to die for!
Sounds good to me! I think one of the big benefits of growing Mac marketshare will ultimately be that Apple can afford to make a few more "specialized" models. They may be low sellers, but in a bigger market, still profitable.

[clembo]

I had an e mail from Apple with the following offer -

For a limited time, you can load up your new Mac with a full version of Microsoft Office 2004 and save up to $250 after mail-in rebate.

Hurry, this offer expires on January 31, 2006.

Mac World starts January the 9th. I seem to recall that Apple did a similar offer on G3 pBooks just before the lauch of the first gen G4. Smacks of clearing inventory perhaps? What do you all think.

[generik]

I had an e mail from Apple with the following offer -

For a limited time, you can load up your new Mac with a full version of Microsoft Office 2004 and save up to $250 after mail-in rebate.

Hurry, this offer expires on January 31, 2006.

Mac World starts January the 9th. I seem to recall that Apple did a similar offer on G3 pBooks just before the lauch of the first gen G4. Smacks of clearing inventory perhaps? What do you all think.

Perhaps, but let's not discount the fact that Apple can always announce a media event and launch new products from there.

I am starting to have doubts that we will see it at MWSF.

[steve_hill4]

They are offering this worldwide, on any Mac in the UK too.

Not necessarily to do with new PBs, but could be to boost sales even further over the holidays, ready to switch in the new year, (after all, most suspected sales would fall after the intel announcement, but they have in fact risen, and apple want them to rise further).

[generik]

The Australian offer lasts till Feb 28th:
http://www.apple.com/au/promo/officebonus/

The funny thing is if I were to hold out till then, I will start expecting a bump for Powermacs anytime soon. Remember for the previous transition from G4-G5 when the final speed bump included bumping all models across the board to dual?

I really hope for the next one all PMs will be bumped to quad:cool: