MWSF: New Product? [Archive] - MacRumors Forums

Brandon Sharitt

Dec 31, 2002, 05:59 PM

I think we will see small upgrades across all Mac lines(like speed bumps) until the 970. I agree with the article about the implementation of the 970, first in the Xserve and then in PowerMacs and/or in a new work station model by years end. Maybe the PowerBook will get faster G4s, that way the iBook can get those 1GHz G3s IBM has.

I think we'll see the iPhone, a Treo-like device, and maybe and new hand held to succed the Newton. I think Apple will come out with an answer to the Windows media PC from HP. Although, I think they'll have a more living room friendly form factor, and it may be more like a Tivo than the media PC. I'm also holding out hope on a iTablet.

Asfar as software goes, I think Apple will drop IE by the end of 2003. They will probabbly rebrand Chimera as iBrowse or something. If OpenOffice.org gets a native Aqua interface, I think Apple will seriously look at it as a foundation to their own non-Microsoft office suite(iOffice?). If iBrowse and iOffice came about, then that would really open the door for OS X on x86 since they would have some of the essential core stuff in their hands to port.

Durandal7

Dec 31, 2002, 06:07 PM

I hope something new comes out, we're due for something new.

whfsdude

Dec 31, 2002, 06:19 PM

Yeah, now we know for sure that we get something good :-)

I hope all of you are wrong. Maybe Steve has done it again, he found a way to send matter over the internet :D You must have a .Mac account to send anything fragile.

But really I want it to be something for the iPod, don't care just something :)

MrMacMan

Dec 31, 2002, 06:52 PM

I hope it is like some handheld or something :-D .
That would be really nice for one of those rumors to come true, since there *have* been like 10000 reports of one. :(

Note to TOM800: Some people here don't have massive screens, and what you did qualifies as spamming I belive. (*cough* admin *cough*) ;)

Well I hope its something Usefull. Not like some company's software that apple bought and ported to the mac... since apple did like buy the movie making indestry.

Phechs

Dec 31, 2002, 07:51 PM

I don't know about you, but adding Bluetooth to an iPod would be great.

sandsl

Dec 31, 2002, 08:04 PM

One of the great things about the ipod is its speed at tranfering songs from mac>ipod through firewire -bluetooth is slow!

As long as Apple introduces an innovative product that could be useful to me i'll be happy! (Good press coverage a bonus!)

dricci

Dec 31, 2002, 08:05 PM

Originally posted by Phechs
I don't know about you, but adding Bluetooth to an iPod would be great.

Oh yes, I can't wait for those blazing slower than USB 1.1 song transfers! Bring it on! :rolleyes:

Be careful about what you wish for ;)

MacCoaster

Dec 31, 2002, 08:28 PM

Originally posted by dricci

Oh yes, I can't wait for those blazing slower than USB 1.1 song transfers! Bring it on! :rolleyes:

Be careful about what you wish for ;)
Why does it have to be transferring music? What about upcoming features new to iPod's OS.

domlee

Dec 31, 2002, 09:11 PM

could be a browser for a 'phillips' branded tv - they have a deal to use rendezvous (the networking tool)- thus adding interactive tv to the i-apps arsenal.

apple need to do something big though!

Macette

Dec 31, 2002, 09:49 PM

if it's something like a boring e-photo-frame (dynamic ornamental appearance anyone?) i'm going to puke.

something groovy that will take my breath away... something that's NEW, rather than an Apple take on something OLD would be excellent. please.

G4scott

Dec 31, 2002, 10:07 PM

This may add to the fire, or not. I was at the Apple store in Plano today, and they were doing all transactions manually because their main transaction server was offline for some reason. I'm not sure, but was the online Apple store down sometime today?

It seems very odd to me. Maybe just year end maintenance. It was kinda funny because they had to fill out all of these special forms, and call in credit cards to get them approved. The people there were very nice though.

I wouldn't mind a new digital device. Things like this would help Apple in a time like this, when their computers are suffering because of lack of processor speed (yes, I know that processor speed isn't everything, but some people aren't buying Macs because of this) New products and innovations are what's going to help Apple in the near future, until we get some really kick @$$ dual PPC 970's :D :cool:

G4scott

Dec 31, 2002, 10:26 PM

Originally posted by Macette
if it's something like a boring e-photo-frame (dynamic ornamental appearance anyone?) i'm going to puke.

something groovy that will take my breath away... something that's NEW, rather than an Apple take on something OLD would be excellent. please.

Wasn't the iPod Apple's take on a used idea? Some things can be improved on, it just depends on what Apple can do to make things cooler, more useful, and different...

neonart

Dec 31, 2002, 10:49 PM

Wouldn't that be great!? An Apple PDA that makes all those CE based PDA's look like a Speak-n-Spell!
Bright LCD, G3, OSX *lite* Aqua interface, Bluetooth and Firewire...

I've already convinced myself! Got my Visa out already.

domlee

Dec 31, 2002, 11:01 PM

apple is the consummate design house - no mass producer can match their innovation and quality. expect big things for macworld, coz steve wont disappoint.

pda would be good simply because apple will show everyone what they have been missin'; but i think apple will evolve the ipod into a hybrid mp3/pda that will dominate both markets and they haven't exhausted the mp3 to offer more yet...

Xero

Dec 31, 2002, 11:21 PM

the only thing im -really- hoping for is a good mic/line-in on the iPod, while keeping upload capabilities. man, that would be PRIME, then i could get rid of my crippled MZ-N707 minidisc recorder and pick up an iPod! :cool:

neonart

Dec 31, 2002, 11:22 PM

Originally posted by domlee
pda would be good simply because apple will show everyone what they have been missin'; but i think apple will evolve the ipod into a hybrid mp3/pda that will dominate both markets and they haven't exhausted the mp3 to offer more yet...

That's right on. Apple already showed everyone with the iPod that it didn't matter if there was competition out there- they produced the best MP3 player, period. Even after over a year, the iPod rules in a market that makes gadgets obsolete in a month!
If Apple does a PDA, it'll put all others on their toes.
It seems that when it comes to Tech most manufacturers "settle" for Ok. Then Apple comes along and shows how much attention to detail, and quality can be had- then the competition tries to match them.
We'll see what comes up!

Centris 650

Dec 31, 2002, 11:53 PM

Personally I hope it's NOT a PDA. I've spent the last year and a half telling myself I don't need one. If Apple comes out with a PDA then what can I say. I GOTTA HAVE IT! :D

I agree if Apple does release a PDA then it will outshine the competition. I wonder how it would be configured? Color or B&W? Would there be a port of extra memory and adaptars (ie wireless web, digital camera, etc)? No doubt it would look cool, probably "ice" like.

Well, I guess we'll all find out on the 7th.

lmalave

Dec 31, 2002, 11:55 PM

Originally posted by Phechs
I don't know about you, but adding Bluetooth to an iPod would be great.

What would Bluetooth be used for in the iPod? Keep in mind Bluetooth is only about 760Kbps transfer rate. The only application I can think of would be to interface with Bluetooth headphones, but as far as I know those haven't reached the market yet. I suppose future stereo receivers might be Bluetooth enabled so they could receive streaming digital audio input, but again I don't think that's reached the market yet...

macdop

Jan 1, 2003, 12:58 AM

A bluetooth iPod would be great actually, think about it, bluetooth will be in cars soon, so wouldn't that be nicer then having to use a tape adapter or FM transmitter?

scem0

Jan 1, 2003, 01:02 AM

having a iPod myself, I know that a bluetooth iPod would be
increadibly slow for transferring large amounts of data. That is
why it is firewire, so it can do what it does quickly.

murderofcrows

Jan 1, 2003, 01:50 AM

is this possible? i watch a lot of dvds on my imac and i have often cosidered buying a bluetooth adapter and bluetooth keyboard so i can use it like a remote control. if they introduced a bluetooth ipod i think it would be doable to allow it to control your dvd player software.
what does everyone else think?

Tom800

Jan 1, 2003, 05:52 AM

To MrMacMan: Apologies for my 'spamming' thoutlessness; twas in the interests of the humor device. I do believe however that AAC would be a wonderful 'gratuity' from apple - if the rumors are to be believed it would allow, at best, 5GB iPods to become essentially 10GB ones, in terms of song space, etc. And if you don't need the space, use it to backup/transfer.

Also agree with the previous poster that with bluetooth, properly done the iPod could be a really cool 'remote' for DVDs, iTunes, Slideshows, etc.

Just out of interest, what do people do with PDAs that is not provided for already by Palm, or done better by a full size laptop/desktop? Surely the compromised nature of a PDA is enough to render it merely a cool toy? The one response I can think of to this was Woz a few years ago saying the Newton was something that really eased his 'thinking through of ideas' process - something like that. But not having ever had a Newton I can't imagine how.

Foocha

Jan 1, 2003, 05:54 AM

It's not easy to see where an Apple PDA offer would sit with the competition. Palm owns the low cost organiser/PDA space. PocketPC owns the higher cost Windows integration space.

If Apple were to move into this area, it's likely they'd want to own Multimedia & digital hub integration, which puts them in consumer space, where they are more familiar.

I believe all of this makes a move to extend the iPod range far more likely than a brand new PDA range.

Aciddan

Jan 1, 2003, 07:40 AM

I know this one comes up from time to time and no doubt it may end up a falsee... My Almost-Father-In-Law is wanting to buy a new iBook 14" (taking him out to buy one in the next couple of days...) and I said to him that he might want to wait until just after MWSF just to see what was coming up...

He was calling around the various apple resellers in our city and one reckoned that he should buy his iBook now because "The only big thing to come out of the MWSF will be an apple branded PDA"

Take this with a grain of salt the size of a bowling ball IMHO (due to apple continually denying PDA rumors: would a new Newton be classified as a PDA tho?). Honestly I doubt that the DLD will be a PDA'ish thingy (also what would a reseller know about secret upcoming products?) but I thought it might be a relevant rumor given the speculation running around atm ;)

-- Dan :D

Wes

Jan 1, 2003, 08:15 AM

Originally posted by Aciddan
I know this one comes up from time to time and no doubt it may end up a falsee... My Almost-Father-In-Law is wanting to buy a new iBook 14" (taking him out to buy one in the next couple of days...) and I said to him that he might want to wait until just after MWSF just to see what was coming up...

He was calling around the various apple resellers in our city and one reckoned that he should buy his iBook now because "The only big thing to come out of the MWSF will be an apple branded PDA"

Take this with a grain of salt the size of a bowling ball IMHO (due to apple continually denying PDA rumors: would a new Newton be classified as a PDA tho?). Honestly I doubt that the DLD will be a PDA'ish thingy (also what would a reseller know about secret upcoming products?) but I thought it might be a relevant rumor given the speculation running around atm ;)

-- Dan :D

Think of this from the resellers point of view. He clears out stock, and can deny he ever said that. You are then stuck with an ibook, that lost much of its value over night. I want a pda too, but I would wait until the keynote is over to order.

Beatbox

Jan 1, 2003, 08:28 AM

What hype?

djniche

Jan 1, 2003, 09:05 AM

I'm still waiting for this device to come out. Prices are going way down for 3 megapixels cameras. I would see 4 or 5 megapixels camera with memory cards and firewire. Allowing you to download photos to ipod.

that would be great

richard5mith

Jan 1, 2003, 09:06 AM

I still don't think it'll be a PDA. But that's not the reason for this post.

People keep asking for AAC support and recording support in the iPod, well, if my research is correct, the iPod has the capability for this and a lot more.

They used a really strange design for something that is supposed to just be an MP3 player, the choice of processor from PortalPlayer (a PP5002) could have been replaced with something much cheaper if MP3 decoding was all you ever wanted to do.

The PP5002 can do the following...
- Encode real-time MP3, WMA and ATRAC3 formats
- Decode real-time MP3, WMA, AAC, ATRAC3 and ACELP.NET formats
- E-IDE controller provides GLF™ interface to CDROMs, CD-R/Ws, HDDs and IBM’s Microdrive™
- Multiple audio processing effects (5-band graphic EQ, preset listening modes, bass boost, etc.)

Now this means that Apple can easily introduce native AAC to iTunes and the iPod. The dual ARM processors in the PP5002 mean they could probably get OGG support in there as well, as it has plenty processing power even if it's not native. The EIDE controller might mean it's possible to plug in a firewire CD-RW and burn off CD's straight from the iPod. And the fact that it can encode real time MP3 would allow them to offer a firewire microphone and 3-4 hours solid recording.

If all these features were enabled at the beginning you'd get huge demand, wouldn't meet supply, annoy customers and have high production costs because your processes weren't in place yet. But if you introduced these features gradually, there'd be no supply problems, you'd keep on selling them for longer, you'd make more money because your production processes had been refined and you wouldn't anger the early buyers because they'd get all the new features too - as all it takes to enable these things is a software upgrade. Makes good business sense.

And then of course there's that strange headphone socket...

Foocha

Jan 1, 2003, 09:57 AM

The Newton was certainly classed as a PDA - in fact I believe it was Apple's CEO at the time, John Sculley, who coined the term.

I think it is highly unlikely that Apple will release a regular "PDA" type device, and my view of what that reseller said is simple - "well he would say that wouldn't he"!

Clockwork

Jan 1, 2003, 10:26 AM

The only thing I want from MWSF is iMovie 3.0!!!!! Come on Apple!!!!

If I'm not mistaken Microsoft will be releasing Windows MovieMaker 2 on the 7th, so I believe Apple might want to try and release iMovie 3 on the same date and do a knockout on MovieMaker. That would definatly spawn a media frenzy. The media would probably set up a head to head test of the two and crown iMovie as a supreme piece of software. That would so rock Microsoft's boat.

Now this means that Apple can easily introduce native AAC to iTunes and the iPod.

Apple has said that when they made the iPod they made it, so that it would support future audio formats. Based on this I believe we will see an update to the iPod's software along with iTunes 4. As most of you probably know iTunes already plays AAC as it supports all Quick Time formats, but we still need AAC encoding in iTunes. I believe this will be resolved in iTunes 4.

As for Apple's new mystery product that is to be announced next week I can only say that whatever it is I will probably have to get hold of it.
I would infact love to see a small server-like device to connect all your home entertainment peripherals to. Now that Phillips is introducing Rendevouz and more devices like DVD players, televisions, game consoles and A/V Recievers are getting built-in FireWire I believe it's a golden oportunity for Apple to make something that will connect all of these devices together so that they work seamlessly.

lmalave

Jan 1, 2003, 10:45 AM

Originally posted by Tom800
To MrMacMan: Apologies for my 'spamming' thoutlessness; twas in the interests of the humor device. I do believe however that AAC would be a wonderful 'gratuity' from apple - if the rumors are to be believed it would allow, at best, 5GB iPods to become essentially 10GB ones, in terms of song space, etc. And if you don't need the space, use it to backup/transfer.

Also agree with the previous poster that with bluetooth, properly done the iPod could be a really cool 'remote' for DVDs, iTunes, Slideshows, etc.

Just out of interest, what do people do with PDAs that is not provided for already by Palm, or done better by a full size laptop/desktop? Surely the compromised nature of a PDA is enough to render it merely a cool toy? The one response I can think of to this was Woz a few years ago saying the Newton was something that really eased his 'thinking through of ideas' process - something like that. But not having ever had a Newton I can't imagine how.
Well, I have a Kyocera 6035 SmartPhone, so the main "killer app" on my Palm device is just making phonecalls. The other killer apps are things like using Mapquest, checking my Yahoo mail, etc. from my phone/PDA. I personally will never again consider having separate PDA and phone devices. I don't know if my next phone purchase will necessarily be a SmartPhone or Treo type device, but at minimum it has to sync with AddressBook and iCal on my iBook. I would miss being able to check Mapquest and online Yellow Pages when I'm looking for someplace in the streets of Manhattan, though...

So here's what I would want in the ultimate mobile device: add a phone keypad to the front of the iPod , a small camera and phone antenna to the top of it, and a microphone at the bottom. So it would still function as an MP3 player (controls would have to change, obviously), but the new "killer app" would be making phonecalls. You would be able to store PDA-type stuff on this new iPhonePod, but, as now, you could actually only do data entry from your computer. You *could* however, record a voice memo on your iPhonePod so you could type in the data on your computer later.

And let's not forget the camera. DoCoMo is using Quicktime and MPEG-4 in its 3G service in Japan. DoCoMo is committed to partnering with AT&T to roll out 3G to major U.S. markets by 2004. DoCoMo + Apple + AT&T = you guessed it, the first real videophone introduced in the american market. I think it will be just like mobile phones are now - once people get used to them they'll wonder what people did before they had them. And streaming video is just one capability. Until 3G rolls out, you can just send still shots for now. And you would also have the cabability to save and upload the still photos to iPhoto, and short movies to iMovie. The image quality wouldn't be top of the line, but being Apple, would be surprisingly good. And you would of course need a color screen to be able to preview and delete photos and movies.

Far fetched? Maybe. But if Apple came through with such a device, I predict that like the iPod it would become a success despite its high price (maybe $700?). The same way being able to carry a whole music collection on the iPod changed people's relationship to their music, I think being able to always have your camera/video camera with you (since you would definitely always have your phone with you) would change the way people use and think about their camera/video cameras.

Tom800

Jan 1, 2003, 10:59 AM

If they enabled AAC it would only be on the Mac iPods, as the PCs use MusicMatch software, not iTunes. Then, as per usual, PC users could get it in 10 months time... A kind of 'see, you should switch' message.

Any thoughts?

cubist

Jan 1, 2003, 11:10 AM

I have an Apple PDA, and it works great. It syncs with iCal and Address Book over ethernet. It has a bigger screen than the Palm III, so I can take notes or make drawings conveniently. Using Graffiti, recognition is very accurate. It's a Newton 2100, and the software for syncing over Mac OS X is available at http://www.everchanging.net/newton/.

BTW altho we all agree that an iBook update is unlikely, that may not apply to the 14" model.

mangoman

Jan 1, 2003, 11:15 AM

... I KNEW someone would bring the Newton up.

BAHHH!:mad: :rolleyes:

richard5mith

Jan 1, 2003, 11:26 AM

Originally posted by mangoman
... I KNEW someone would bring the Newton up.

BAHHH!:mad: :rolleyes:

It's still the best OS on any PDA (and I have a newton, palm and pocket pc).

However, I don't use any of them. And that's the problem, lots of people buy them, use them for a month, and never touch them again.

mangoman

Jan 1, 2003, 11:47 AM

Sorry. Didn't mean to be a turd on that last one. I've been through several PDA's--several 'cause I usually end up stepping on 'em/dropping 'em down steps/ etc. ANYHOO, I love 'em. My life doesn't depend on 'em, but I've gotten very used to having all my crap stored there. My last one, a cracked H-Spring Pro, was recently sold on eBay (no, don't laugh, I made a decent chunk o' change off that puppy). Now I'm back to using my ol' azz Palm IIIe. Ol' School.

And send a big bawdy BAAAHHH back at me, but I'm waiting for Apple to make the killer device....

Go ahead. Say it:

Foocha

Jan 1, 2003, 12:19 PM

I use a Palm Tungsten T - I've used a Palm for many years. It's always been an essential for me because I use it for calendar & contacts - like most people. None of the other applications have ever been of much use to me, until I got the Tungsten T. With Bluetooth, I now also use it as my primary means for sending and receiving SMS.

The Sony T68i and the Palm Tungsten T make a great combination, and I'm not yet convinced that these seperate types of devices are ever likely to merge - since the require different shapes & input methods.

An iPod or a Palm to too big and clunky to be used as a Mobile Phone.

pyrotoaster

Jan 1, 2003, 12:23 PM

Let's think about this for a second.
• Apple dropped the Summer Expo in a clever scheme just a few months ago.
• MWSF is now the only time everybody is paying attention to what Apple is doing (unlike people like us who are always paying attention).
• The iPod was a big success, and there's leftover technology from the Newton.
• We aren't going to see an update to the iBooks or TiBooks, and we probably won't see an update to the Power Macs, either.
• Besides, updates aren't big things (although new, faster iMacs would be cool), we really want to see a groundbreaking new device.
• I know it's already been said, but bluetooth serves little use in the iPod, Firewire really is much better for mp3.
• Jaguar featured the introduction of some neat-o handwriting gizmos (Inkwell), which serve no to even less than no purpose in today's desktop (or even laptop) computers.
• Apple hasn't even tried to get support for PocketPC devices, and that leaves out a part of the PDA market.
• With the exception of the Tungsten, Palm PDAs are pretty mediocre, which would help the introduction of any Apple PDA.
• Don't rule out the iPad/iTablet/iWhatever. Windows-based tablets are pretty lousy, Apple could whip out some cool innovation (it is what they do best).
Any Apple DLD PDA would fuse the ideals of the digital hub, the Mac OS, and the Tablet. This will definatly be something totally new (in the way the iPod was) and very creative (that wild mood ring casing, for a strange example).

Chomolungma

Jan 1, 2003, 12:55 PM

Originally posted by lmalave

What would Bluetooth be used for in the iPod? Keep in mind Bluetooth is only about 760Kbps transfer rate. The only application I can think of would be to interface with Bluetooth headphones, but as far as I know those haven't reached the market yet. I suppose future stereo receivers might be Bluetooth enabled so they could receive streaming digital audio input, but again I don't think that's reached the market yet...

Downloading a stranger's music in the airport or on the subway. The slow speed makes it even more dirty and tempting:D

liloconf

Jan 1, 2003, 12:57 PM

I noticed that the keynote will be streamed live. I don't remember if that is something that happens often. I want to open up the stream and see steve present the 970 to the world. hehe the scream of shock heard round the world....

richard5mith

Jan 1, 2003, 01:02 PM

Originally posted by liloconf
I noticed that the keynote will be streamed live. I don't remember if that is something that happens often. I want to open up the stream and see steve present the 970 to the world. hehe the scream of shock heard round the world....

It's always streamed live.

Chomolungma

Jan 1, 2003, 01:08 PM

Originally posted by richard5mith

Now this means that Apple can easily introduce native AAC to iTunes and the iPod. The dual ARM processors in the PP5002 mean they could probably get OGG support in there as well, as it has plenty processing power even if it's not native. The EIDE controller might mean it's possible to plug in a firewire CD-RW and burn off CD's straight from the iPod. And the fact that it can encode real time MP3 would allow them to offer a firewire microphone and 3-4 hours solid recording.

Why would you want to burn a CD, when you already have an iPod? Unless you want to give your music to someone else, then this would at least legit reason. I'm sure the RIAA will disapprove

With ubiquitous external HD and ever increasing storage capacity, I honestly don't see a need for a an optical drive storage media (CD, DVD). I find it weird that people still ask for this in their computer. I wish my TiBook has a removable DVD drive. I like a second battery in its place. I'm going off on a tangent :D :D

lmalave

Jan 1, 2003, 02:17 PM

Originally posted by Chomolungma

Why would you want to burn a CD, when you already have an iPod? Unless you want to give your music to someone else, then this would at least legit reason. I'm sure the RIAA will disapprove

With ubiquitous external HD and ever increasing storage capacity, I honestly don't see a need for a an optical drive storage media (CD, DVD). I find it weird that people still ask for this in their computer. I wish my TiBook has a removable DVD drive. I like a second battery in its place. I'm going off on a tangent :D :D

I dunno, I got my iBook instead of a Sony Vaio superslim was *because* it included a built-in DVD player. I haven't watched a DVD on a regular screen since I got my iBook - I just pop it into the iBook. Makes a great portable DVD player.

And I agree, a small external HD (like the iPod itself, for example) makes a great and portable file backup solution. Sometimes you don't even want to clutter your external drive, though, and really just want to archive stuff to a CD/DVD and stash it away...

MacKid

Jan 1, 2003, 02:30 PM

I actually think that it [B]might be a new iBook and/or PowerBook. I know it's far-fetched, but the iBook and PowerBook form/factor has been around for quite a while, so I think that either in MWSF or MWNY, we'll see some new laptops.

adamcoop

Jan 1, 2003, 02:32 PM

Originally posted by Brandon Sharitt
I think we will see small upgrades across all Mac lines(like speed bumps) until the 970. I agree with the article about the implementation of the 970, first in the Xserve and then in PowerMacs and/or in a new work station model by years end. Maybe the PowerBook will get faster G4s, that way the iBook can get those 1GHz G3s IBM has.
[/i]

If Apple was to ship a 970 equipped X-Serve before the PowerMacs, they can expect to sell zero desktop units until they put the new chips in the PowerMacs.

vniow

Jan 1, 2003, 02:36 PM

Originally posted by edvniow
Well that definately confirms it then!

Maybe I should have included sarcasm tags with that post..........

lmalave

Jan 1, 2003, 03:25 PM

Originally posted by adamcoop

If Apple was to ship a 970 equipped X-Serve before the PowerMacs, they can expect to sell zero desktop units until they put the new chips in the PowerMacs.

Well, considering that PowerMac sales were down 18% last year, and the dropoff is accelerating, Apple has to show something with the 970 before they actually start shipping 970 PowerMacs. Rumor has it that Apple already has 970 prototypes sitting at Cupertino. Why not demo one at MWSF? Sure, it would kill PowerMac sales for the next 6 months, but Apple does NOT want to lose pro users to WinTel, and at the current pace PowerMac sales would've probably been down by at least 30% this year anyway.

pyrotoaster

Jan 1, 2003, 05:18 PM

I just wanted to make a point by correcting "MacKid," who said that new laptops could arrive at MWSF or MWNY.
Two things:
1. There won't be new laptops at MWSF. It's too soon, and Apple's product line isn't ready for G4 iBooks.
2. There won't be a MWNY this year. Apple pulled out of all summer shows a few months ago. While Apple doesn't organize and run the show (IDG does), there wouldn't be a high enough attendance at an Apple-less show.

MacCoaster

Jan 1, 2003, 07:49 PM

Adding to the bluetooth discussion, I just remembered that I sumitted a thread back in October about the job description for an iPod engineer over at Apple.

Interesting info on iPod Lead Systems Engineer Job description... (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13146)

MacCoaster

Jan 1, 2003, 07:51 PM

Originally posted by pyrotoaster
While Apple doesn't organize and run the show (IDG does), there wouldn't be a high enough attendance at an Apple-less show.
How do you KNOW that? MacWorld isn't all about Apple, ya know. It's all about Apple and peripherals that work with Macintoshes.

Besides, we haven't had an Apple-less MWNY yet, to my recollection; therefore, we have to wait and see if attendance drops.

neonart

Jan 1, 2003, 08:13 PM

Originally posted by MacCoaster

...we have to wait and see if attendance drops.

Don't know... Macworld without Apple is like PlaystationWorld without Sony.
Attendance will drop- it's just a matter of how much.

kansaigaijin

Jan 1, 2003, 08:34 PM

the point about Apple not being at Macworlds other than SF is that it frees them from some one elses schedule. If they don't go to NY or Tokyo then they don't have to come up with something big for those events. they can release things when they are ready.

the big thing so far about streaming of SF keynote was that Apple France has rented the Pompidou Centre to show it live.

pyrotoaster

Jan 1, 2003, 10:34 PM

Never mind if attendance drops, although two major trade shows a year is excessive if the company the show revolves around only appears at one, but IDG won't have a show if it can't make a nice profit.:)

Cappy

Jan 1, 2003, 11:12 PM

Originally posted by richard5mith
IIf all these features were enabled at the beginning you'd get huge demand, wouldn't meet supply, annoy customers and have high production costs because your processes weren't in place yet. But if you introduced these features gradually, there'd be no supply problems, you'd keep on selling them for longer, you'd make more money because your production processes had been refined and you wouldn't anger the early buyers because they'd get all the new features too - as all it takes to enable these things is a software upgrade. Makes good business sense.

And then of course there's that strange headphone socket...

It only makes some good business sense if they account for how soon competitors will have the same or superior functions. There's also not exactly a huge market looking for other audio formats. I'm sure they'll include whatever Quicktime supports at some point in the future but for now, mp3 is what sells these things.

Frankly I would expect them to incorporate bluetooth in it some time soon to allow for wireless headphones. It would also open up a new 3rd party market to help popularize the ipod if you can also connect mics by way of bluetooth. Many folks want bluetooth for data transfer to their Macs and PC's but tend to forget that bluetooth is too slow for that as well as then they would probably forget to keep the unit charged. :)

lmalave

Jan 1, 2003, 11:16 PM

Originally posted by Cappy

It only makes some good business sense if they account for how soon competitors will have the same or superior functions. There's also not exactly a huge market looking for other audio formats. I'm sure they'll include whatever Quicktime supports at some point in the future but for now, mp3 is what sells these things.

Frankly I would expect them to incorporate bluetooth in it some time soon to allow for wireless headphones. It would also open up a new 3rd party market to help popularize the ipod if you can also connect mics by way of bluetooth. Many folks want bluetooth for data transfer to their Macs and PC's but tend to forget that bluetooth is too slow for that as well as then they would probably forget to keep the unit charged. :)

That's a very good point - Apple has to integrate Bluetooth in the iPods ASAP in order to accomodate future use (like wireless headphones), since the iPods aren't exactly upgradeable. I mean, you can't just go out and buy a USB dongle for your iPod the same way I will for my iBook as soon as someone comes out with Bluetooth headphones....

Xerov

Jan 2, 2003, 01:16 AM

The iPods WILL be updated...I doubt this is the 'New device' seeing as it is just an update but I am 99.9% sure the iPods will be updated...

Why do i Know?

Well I was going to buy a 5GB iPod for my Friend
When I called apple...and the repesentative that answered told me that there will be no more 5GB iPods available in January.

When I asked if they were updating them he replies 'You will have to wait and see'.

Oh and BTW First POST!

GeneR

Jan 2, 2003, 02:51 AM

This thought:

How about an iPod which doesn't have to have a keyboard but a microphone? Why not simply enlarge the screen, give its OS the capability to have an organizer, calendar, address book, similar to the Palm Pilot...

AND THEN (drum roll please), instead of needing a keyboard or special short strokes, have a good Viavoice program native to iPod OS with a record button on it. Store your dictations into the iPod as MP3s, have the ones that you mark later to be transferred into notes into the iPod for later download into your computer? Why drive and write when you can simply dictate and TRANSCRIBE later? The iPod would become your virtual secretary...

And isn't making life more simple what Apple's all about? And guess, what? No keyboard. Huh. So simple.

SECOND: Make iPod also into a phone.

As an "iPhone" capability to the iPod so you can use it as a phone, voicemail box, tape recorder to tape conversations, notes to yourself, etc. And then transcribe the notes into your computer.

Anyway, to have both of these would be wonderful. Of course, you wouldn't record any conversations illegally (just like you wouldn't swap other people's music without their consent...)

Please let me know what you think. Thanks!

:)

Xerov

Jan 2, 2003, 03:39 AM

If apple comes out with a cell phone I will buy one same-day!

Ive attached a picture of how I wish they would look

dstorey

Jan 2, 2003, 04:22 AM

Originally posted by lmalave

That's a very good point - Apple has to integrate Bluetooth in the iPods ASAP in order to accomodate future use (like wireless headphones)

The problem I see with bluetooth headphones is that headphones have a happy knack of falling out and when they are wireless how easy would they be to lose or smash even when they hit the floor...

neilg

Jan 2, 2003, 05:07 AM

All the ideas to extend the functionality of the ipod are great but as far as I'm concerned until Apple sort out the ipod's battery life-expectancy problems, it's all wishfull thinking.
I bought a 10gb ipod in October and after only a few months use I'm getting only about 2 hours max use from the battery - it's advertised as having 10 hours!. Check on any of the ipod sites that are around and you'll find that lots of people are having the same problem.
I love my ipod and don't regret for a minute the money I spent on it, but if you wanted to add any extra features- especially recording, or colour screens- I can only see battery life expectancy plummeting to something that would make the unit practically useless!
This battery life issue is a problem that Apple need to address and which they overtly have not done so (there is NO official mention of the issue anywhere on the Apple site)- it is also an issue that could harm sales of the current model, and any future 'enhanced' models, should rumour of it get out to mainstream consumers...

lmalave

Jan 2, 2003, 07:37 AM

Originally posted by dstorey

The problem I see with bluetooth headphones is that headphones have a happy knack of falling out and when they are wireless how easy would they be to lose or smash even when they hit the floor...

I don't know what you're talking about - I already have wireless headphones - except they're not Bluetooth, they use radio and thus require a base station transmitter. I'm talking any 3rd party Bluetooth headphones from Sony or whoever, not necessarily the little earbuds that the iPod currently come with. I don't have any problem with my wireless headphones falling off....

lmalave

Jan 2, 2003, 07:39 AM

neilg

Jan 2, 2003, 08:09 AM

Originally posted by GeneR
This thought:

How about an iPod which doesn't have to have a keyboard but a microphone?
AND THEN (drum roll please), instead of needing a keyboard or special short strokes, have a good Viavoice program native to iPod OS with a record button on it.
:)

I like the idea but voice recognition still belongs to the future, I think. At the moment handwriting recognition has the edge over voice in terms of ease of editing/accuracy and then we're back into Palm Pilot territory. Even so, I can still type quicker on a full size keyboard than I can either talk or graffiti...
How about a flexible full size keyboard (and/or screen) that could roll up into pocket size tube?

astomatous

Jan 2, 2003, 09:05 AM

Has anyone considered adding cell capabilites to the iPod to allow for the new sherlock to be a part of the capabilites. Sherlock is pretty useless now with internet explorer next to it on the Dock on my iBook, but would be pretty nifty as a PDA web browser . . .

lmalave

Jan 2, 2003, 09:18 AM

Originally posted by astomatous
Has anyone considered adding cell capabilites to the iPod to allow for the new sherlock to be a part of the capabilites. Sherlock is pretty useless now with internet explorer next to it on the Dock on my iBook, but would be pretty nifty as a PDA web browser . . .

Well, Apple could go one of two routes: add phone capabilities to the iPod directly, or just enable iPod to do things via a Bluetooth connection to a mobile phone. Personally, I prefer all in one devices. Since a phone is the only device I'll carry with me at all times, I like everything integrated into a phone device: MP3 player, PDA, camera, etc. For this reason the SonyEricsson P800, Nokia 3650, and Kyocera 7135 are looking mighty tempting (though the Nokia doesn't include an MP3 player and the Kyocera doesn't include a camera). But if Apple could pull off an iPodPhoneCam with video recording capability (like the Nokia) and at least 5GB storage, that would trump them all!

Frobozz

Jan 2, 2003, 09:54 AM

Originally posted by Centris 650
Personally I hope it's NOT a PDA. I've spent the last year and a half telling myself I don't need one.

I wholeheartedly agree. It's not going to be a PDA, and not a single rumor actually substantiates this. I don't know why people even want one... a PDA isn't very useful. Cell phones have replaced the useful portions of a PDA. The PDA will eventually die out. A good cell phone can sync, it can use your calendars, contacts, and address book. It can even play games, surf the web, and take crappy pictures. So, why do I need a PDA? Um, I don't. Apple's much smarter than that. If they come out with a device that's hand held, it will in no way represent what we curently think of as a PDA.

Frobozz

Jan 2, 2003, 09:58 AM

Originally posted by lmalave

Well, Apple could go one of two routes: add phone capabilities to the iPod directly, or just enable iPod to do things via a Bluetooth connection to a mobile phone. Personally, I prefer all in one devices. Since a phone is the only device I'll carry with me at all times, I like everything integrated into a phone device: MP3 player, PDA, camera, etc.

While mp3 playback sounds intriguing, that must have a massively different power requirement than a standard phone. I don't think I'm as interested in this as you, because I don't see the sound quality or the usefulness. A cell phone does all it needs to without being my entertainment center. Yes, I can surf the web and get info, but for Audiophiles, mp3 playback on a cellphone ain't gonna cut it.

pyrotoaster

Jan 2, 2003, 10:32 AM

Why does Apple need to make a cell phone?:confused:
While I did like the look of the concept pictures posted earlier, the screen on them (with a trademark Aqua interface) suits something with PDA functions in it.
Maybe we're looking at something like the Treo, but a plain old cell just doesn't make sense, and a cell/iPod makes even less sense.

kansaigaijin

Jan 2, 2003, 10:41 AM

you haven't seen the typical japanese cell phone!

now with movies! mp3 player, smart card slot, remote control and headphones. and still camera of course, but thats so 90's.

Chomolungma

Jan 2, 2003, 10:47 AM

Originally posted by neilg
All the ideas to extend the functionality of the ipod are great but as far as I'm concerned until Apple sort out the ipod's battery life-expectancy problems, it's all wishfull thinking.
I bought a 10gb ipod in October and after only a few months use I'm getting only about 2 hours max use from the battery - it's advertised as having 10 hours!. Check on any of the ipod sites that are around and you'll find that lots of people are having the same problem.
I love my ipod and don't regret for a minute the money I spent on it, but if you wanted to add any extra features- especially recording, or colour screens- I can only see battery life expectancy plummeting to something that would make the unit practically useless!
This battery life issue is a problem that Apple need to address and which they overtly have not done so (there is NO official mention of the issue anywhere on the Apple site)- it is also an issue that could harm sales of the current model, and any future 'enhanced' models, should rumour of it get out to mainstream consumers...

I raise the same concern earlier. One solution would be to have a removable lithium ion battery, which can make replacing them much easier and obviously cheaper albeit not by much. Even better, have a battery bay that takes lithium ion, Nimh or regular batteries.

As I said before, an iPod may be the most expensive thing you can buy from Apple if you intend to keep the thing more than 5 or 6 years. ($499 + several battery replacement each ~$100) It adds up. Be that as it may, most people will not face this problem because the very people that buys the iPod will find something else more cool or they will have outgrown this phase of their lives. How many 40 year old person(s) do you know that listen to music on the subway? I don't see the iPod as just a mp3 player, but rather a storage device, or (with a larger screen) a photo album.

pyrotoaster

Jan 2, 2003, 10:48 AM

True, I haven't seen any Japanese cell phones recently, but American phones are only just starting to see color screens and cameras. Because of PDAs, I think we're looking at Palms with phones (once again, like the Handspring Treo), instead of phones with Palm-like features.
Also, I'd be interested to know who would provide this phone service? I don't think Apple would. So who?

lmalave

Jan 2, 2003, 08:01 PM

Originally posted by pyrotoaster
True, I haven't seen any Japanese cell phones recently, but American phones are only just starting to see color screens and cameras. Because of PDAs, I think we're looking at Palms with phones (once again, like the Handspring Treo), instead of phones with Palm-like features.
Also, I'd be interested to know who would provide this phone service? I don't think Apple would. So who?

I have to disagree here. I really wouldn't want to be in the Palm or PocketPC market right now - I think the new phones are going to pull the rug right out from under them. The new phones have Address Book and Calendar features - basically the main things people use their Palm for. I don't even think Palm phones like Handspring Treo or the Kyocera Smartphone stand much of a chance. Take a look at the interfaces and built-in functionality for the SonyEricsson P800 or Nokia 3650 - they are all 90% of consumers need. And they support the SyncML standard so they can sync with iSync on the Mac, and in the Windows world they will certainly sync with Outlook if they don't already. Plus they run the Symbian operating system and Java, which means they will very quickly have a myriad of Java apps that they can run, and will quickly catch up to the Palm and PocketPC.

In terms of carrier partners for an iPhone, I would predict AT&T. AT&T is working with DoCoMo to build a 3G network in the US, and DoCoMo is already an Apple partner in Japan.

An interesting question would be what operating system an iPhone would run. Whatever it is, I would bet it would support Java like the Nokia and SonyEricsson phones. Applications written with the Java Mobile APIs should be able to run on any Java Mobile compliant phone. So maybe just a few key apps would run "natively" on the iPhone, but otherwise Apple would be piggybacking off the success of the other Java phones.

macdop

Jan 2, 2003, 08:05 PM

kansaigaijin

Jan 2, 2003, 10:00 PM

was it a partnership? or did they just show that the phone was iSync compatible?

also what is the nature of the DoCoMo/Apple partnership in Japan? I have been shopping for a phone/service for a few weeks now, and have seen no evidence of such a thing.

I don't see any japanese phone listed as compatible with iSync, among the many features available.

melchior

Jan 2, 2003, 10:18 PM

the apple docomo partnership is a recent anouncement. they will use mp4. not quite sure what for since they already have a video format for phone to phone video. I can only assume it's for i-mode streaming downloads.

are you really considering FOMA? it's so expensive!

pyrotoaster

Jan 2, 2003, 10:18 PM

I have to agree with kansaigaijin on the deal with Cingular and Ericsson, although I admit that Cingular would be a good candidate for iPhone service.
But the Ericsson deal brings up more doubt. Anything Apple introduces would have generally what their partnership with Ericsson offers, and the cell phone market is much more brutal than the PDA one.
An Apple phone couldn't just innovate, it would have to revolutionize cell phones as we know it. I have a cheap Nokia phone that serves my needs (calling people) perfectly. I can get calendar and other features from a cheap Palm (like the Zire) or my iPod.
Cell phones have small screens, clunky text entry, and short batteries (I know not all cells have short batteries, but many of the small new color ones do). Apple would have to put an iPod size battery into a generally small space, find a way to integrate much better text entry, and provide a splashy interface (along the lines of an OS X lite).
I probably wouldn't buy an Apple cell phone.:(

kansaigaijin

Jan 2, 2003, 10:27 PM

not looking at FOMA.

what I hate about mobiles (Keitei)

all the different plans and scams and b*lls#$t.
and games (not the fun kind) Tu-Ka appears to be the cheapest, but you are locked in for two years.

mangoman

Jan 2, 2003, 10:30 PM

STILL haven't bought a cell phone. I'm waiting to see what happens next week. If anyone can make one--or create some new kickin' tech' that would draw me to buy a cell phone--it's Apple.

Yep. Dassssit. I'm tellin' da troof, yo.

melchior

Jan 2, 2003, 10:47 PM

henagaijin> yeah they all suck in their own way. i have been j-phone yor over a year now and don't see any advantage in changing. you'd want to have a good handle on japanese though... anata ha sege nihongo! so no problem. (i suck frankly)

docomo has great gaijin support. but you gotta support the underdog ya'know!

Talon1138

Jan 2, 2003, 11:03 PM

How about this:

iPhone: wi-fi phone for household that of course sinks with the mac and uses the mac as a voice mail system with all the bells and whistles like individual message boxes for different callers, etc. The whole system would run off the internet (so would be best for broadband users).

But get this: subscription to the whole service would be part of the .mac $99 price tag. no extra monthly fee.

kansaigaijin

Jan 3, 2003, 06:50 AM

sorry talon I beat you to it. Maybe it was in another thread. I guess you can say great minds think alike. I am surprised no one else picked up on it everyone seems fixated on mobile phones and PDAs. If apple would do this then I could cancel my yahoo and switch to Fibre 100mbps service! they don't do phone service unfortunately.

lmalave

Jan 3, 2003, 07:01 AM

Originally posted by kansaigaijin
sorry talon I beat you to it. Maybe it was in another thread. I guess you can say great minds think alike. I am surprised no one else picked up on it everyone seems fixated on mobile phones and PDAs. If apple would do this then I could cancel my yahoo and switch to Fibre 100mbps service! they don't do phone service unfortunately.

Well, speaking for myself, I'm fixated on a mobile phone because I don't even have regular phone service. Why pay money for regular phone service? Mobile phone service is cheap and if I call on nights and weekends, I get free long distance (within the U.S.). I suppose if I had to make more internatiinal calls, I would find the idea of an Apple internet phone much more appealing. I think I read somewhere that an estimated 15% of international calls were already being through the internet. As it stands, though, I wouldn't buy an Apple internet phone (unless it was dirt cheap), since I already get everrything I need from my mobile phone.