Pioneer DVR-104

[arn]

Many have noted that the new iMac comes with a Pioneer DVR-104 for it's Superdrive in contrast to the previous DVR-103 in the PowerMac models... a Macintouch letter (http://www.macintouch.com) clarifies the difference:


- physical dimensions; it is a bit shorter, now conforming to usual size of 5.25" drive mechanisms. The original DVR-103/A03 was a bit longer, and made for a tight squeeze in some quarters.
- the -RW spec is a bit faster, but as Apple does not support this, no real user benefit

[gotohamish]

What's this about Apple not supporting DVDRW? OS 10.1 does, and Toast 5 in OS 9 does... it's hardly out of our reach!

Can you buy these drives on their own yet anyone?

[whfsdude]

I know it's not really a superdrive if it can't burn a dvdrw

[mac15]

but I thought you could burn a DVDRW
maybe apple didn't include the DVDRW because they made their disks so cheap only 5 bucks

[arn]

Originally posted by mac15
but I thought you could burn a DVDRW
maybe apple didn't include the DVDRW because they made their disks so cheap only 5 bucks

You can burn DVD-RW's with the Superdrive... I believe the above comment may have been not supporting the faster speed... but it's hard to say.

arn

[Unregistered]

If I am not wrong, on the digital audio G4 733 the 'superdrive' does not burn dvdrw, but only dvdr... yet it was the first superdrive to be launched.

[arn]

All superdrives have been able to burn DVD-RW's... Apple doesn't officially acknowledge or support it however.

arn

[MasterX (OSiX)]

I'm not shure but I though Apple said the superdrive could read but not write to DVD-RW. Oh well. Actually on Apple' specs they list the drive as 8/8/24, the old ones were 8/6/24 (or 8/4/24 dont remember)

[Rocketman]

Originally posted by arn
All superdrives have been able to burn DVD-RW's... Apple doesn't officially acknowledge or support it however.

arn

As I posted in another thread my TiG4-400 has a drive that claims to be CDRW when you do a Apple System Profiler, but of course I do not know how to make it go. Some hacker needs to crack that nut since the Apple CDRW upgrade program is not available for the 400/500 units. They must be thinner or something. Unless you know of any superdrive hardware that fits . . .

Rocketman


:cool:

[Scab Cake]

Yes, the Superdrive burns/erases DVD-RW. I believe you can even erase your DVD-RWs in Disk Copy. I have yet to buy a disc (they're $17 at Fry's Electronics), though.

I've been snooping through the Apple iDVD discussion and people are even burning on double-sided DVD-R media from www.cd-recordable.com. It seems that the SuperDrive really is extremely versatile.

As far as DVD+RW, I believe I read a discussion about that on MacCentral. I am not going to even try to comment on what I can vaguely remember. However, if you're really interested, you can always search their forums. The +RW discs are also sold at Fry's Electronics for about the same price. I'll probably pick up a DVD-RW this weekend and see how it works.

[Unregistered]

If I purchase a DVR-103 retail will iDVD work or is there special firmware on Apple's drive?

[StealthRider]

Originally posted by MasterX (OSiX)
I'm not shure but I though Apple said the superdrive could read but not write to DVD-RW. Oh well. Actually on Apple' specs they list the drive as 8/8/24, the old ones were 8/6/24 (or 8/4/24 dont remember)
That's for write/rewrite/read CD's, you dolt....

[arn]

Originally posted by Unregistered
If I purchase a DVR-103 retail will iDVD work or is there special firmware on Apple's drive?

it will only work if u install it INTERNALLY on a G4 mac...

iDVD does not support external DVD-R's

arn

[Unregistered]

by the way ... is it possible to copy a movie dvd with the superdrive?

[evanmarx]

Originally posted by Unregistered
by the way ... is it possible to copy a movie dvd with the superdrive?

nope ... not really ... not as easy as the simple questions suggests anyway ...

there are trick do to that ... but that takes some fiddling ...

btw ... to clarify ... the superdrive is supposedly able to burn dvd-rewritables, but only DVD -RW disks as opposed to DVD +RW ... don't ask me what the technical differences are ... it's quite a mess with all the competing standards right now ...

[abe]

So, if I can't copy movies and don't have a digital video cam (I do have a firewire backup disc so I wouldn't need it for backups), what the heck do I need the superdrive for ...?

Apple should add the option to choose the CD/RW or DVD/CD/RW drive instead for the 933MHz and 1GHz models...

[irmongoose]

Yes you can copy movie DVDs. Quite simple actually.

I've tried it many times at a friends house... it works perfectly... I use some type of DiVx software...

The best thing is that it takes out the region code... so I rent a Japanese DVD( American movie)... burn it... and watch it on my US Region Code DVD player... all for less than 1/3 the price of the DVD when you buy it.

So.. its possible... but I forget the software.



irmongoose

[dantec]

I got one of those Sony DVD+RW. Come in a red & gold case... Didn't work, my powermac tries to recognize it for about 2 minutes!

[MasterX (OSiX)]

Originally posted by StealthRider

That's for write/rewrite/read CD's, you dolt....

I know that you ass, I was just pointing out the faster performance of the iMac's Superdrive as was brought up before. Not a chance in hell there would be such a powerful DVD-R in any consumer computer. I don't even know if they have commercial DVD-R drives that fast, I assume they can simply print them off in mass quantity.

[rtoledo]

Hi all, I just bought the DVR-104 and being on a PC I'm having just the opposite of what's on this thread, ALL software that is available sees the drive as DVD-RW and will only try to burn in this mode. Windows XP sees it as a DVD-R when there are no discs in it .

It's probably too new for them to write to it, the 2 pieces of software that come close to it is Roxio's Video pack 5 and Ulead's DVD Worshop, both of these try to do it ONLY in -RW and ONLY see the drive as being -RW, except I bought DVD-R disk's.

I'm going to take it back and try to get the dvr-A03 since the software for the PC support's DVD-R at X2, the 2 software titles mentioned above say they support the dvr-103 which the place I bought the 104 also sells, unfortunetly they did not have A03 and talked me into this drive as being a "new" super A03, they also had no software and "promised" to send it to me when they get it(read I'm too impatient)

Fact is looking at the paper that comes with this bare drive it has the same SPEC's as the A03 and 103 and all 3 drives claim DVD-R and DVD-RW, I had to set the code to region 1 to play some of my title's but all seem to play ok

[AmbitiousLemon]

i thought an email from my favorite burner related vendor might clear up SOME of this:

The recordable DVD biz has exploded and prices have imploded. Now isthe time to get into DVD production. Here's an executive review ofthe important technologies, pricing ranges and tips you need to moveup from CD-R discs to recordable DVD's

WHAT DVD RECORDABLES GIVE YOU OVER CD-R'S
DVD recordables give you up to 30-times more room to store your data,record your movies or music. A fair market comparison makes DVD's aBIG bargain per MB of contents -- an average price for a top qualityCD-R is around 40-cents, which means that you're getting 17.5 MB's for each penny you spend. Today's lower prices for DVD-R discs givesyou a quality DVD-R disc that holds 4,700 MB for only $2.79. That works out to 16.8 MB per penny you spend on a DVD-R -- so now youcan move up to DVD and do it for about what you're paying today forthe old CD-R discs! And, DVD's will only get less expensive from now on, so the picturegets better every day! DVD's are getting more and more affordable.

WHAT ABOUT 30X BURN SPEED?
Recordable DVD's can burn at 2X. Imagine, you're writing the equivalentof 30-CDRs in the hour it takes to fill a full 4.7 GB DVD-R at 2X. That works out to the equivalent of burning a CDR disc in about 2 minutes or so... or burning CDRs at 30X How's that for speed! DVD-R discs, even at 1X or 2X burn speeds, are working at lighteningspeeds, roughly equivalent to burning CD-R discs at 30X

WHAT YOU NEED TO GET STARTED
There are two popular, well rated burners in the recordable DVD biz.

Pioneer's Combo DVD-R/W CD-R/W Writer DVR-104
This is the recently upgraded version of their DVR-A03, just a bit fasterand a bit smaller to fit into smaller PC cases. It's an internal ATAPIEIDE drive. That's a mouthful of abbreviations that means that it willwork in almost all present day PC Windows desktop computers (not the little notebook laptop sizes, sorry). It also works fine in the biggerMac G4 computers, but Mac users will need their own software. Notice thatthe title line above mentions a string of DVD and CD media. That's itsmain ADVANTAGE -- it actually burns all 4 most popular kinds of recordablediscs, including DVD-R and DVD-RW as well as CD-R and CD-RW. Furthermoreit PLAYS just about every kind of CD and DVD you can think of, includingvideos, movies, game software, audio and music discs, Kodak Photo CDs, and so on. LIMITATIONS: Doesn't play or burn any kind of "DVD-RAM" disc.These DVD-R and DVD-RW discs can play on well over 95% of DVD playersnow being sold in the stores around the country - a BIG advantage for sure!

Panasonic's DVD-R/RAM Writer LF-D311
If speed is what you need, this little Panasonic beuty is your baby.Editing speed that is. If you're editing your own video productions,DVD-RAM discs are your DVD media of choice -- in-and-out-wise, DVD-RAMdiscs run at several times the speed of DVD-R discs. And, these discslet you put down a scene or two at a time with something called "randomaccess" over many sessions. You can use them something like a spare harddrive disc, editing files stored on them one at a time, any way you want.By contrast, the DVD-R or DVD-RW disc format force you to put down thewhole video in one piece, one long file copied to the burned disc at once.However, since DVD-RAM discs don't PLAY in DVD players like DVD-R and RWdiscs do, you'll need to burn a DVD-R disc with your final edited work forpublic distribution. DVD-RAM is for editing and data storage, not forDVD distribution. So when you've finish your video or movie, you merelycopy the final edited DVD-RAM over to your HD, then you go back to DVD-R...put a blank DVD-R disc in this Panasonic drive and burn a DVD-R disc thatcan play in almost all the DVD players in the market. (A few types of olderand cheaper DVD players will not play recordable DVD-R or DVD-RW discs.)It burns general type 4.7GB DVD-R discs and all the different formats ofDVD-RAM discs, old and new (from 2.6GB, 5.2GB, 4.7GB and 9.4GB).LIMITATIONS: This machine won't record or burn any kind of CD-R or CD-RW disc. If you want to work with recordable CDs, you'll need to keep yourold CD-R drive around. Also, if you want to product re-writable DVD-RWsinstead of DVD-Rs, this is not your burner- it won't write to thatformat.
SUMMARY: If you produce video movies and need to edit them back and forthina work group or between several people, and don't need DVD-RW and CD-Rdiscs,this is your baby -- Faster, cheaper, just the right tool for the job.Comes with a full suite of software and the mounting hardware you'll need.

THE OTHER DVD BURNERS
For specialty purposes there are a few other types of DVD burners. Theseburners add up to less than a couple percent of the market these days.High end recording studios who produce "master audio CDs" for recordmanufacturing purposes need an "Authoring" type DVD Writer that burns"Authoring" type DVD-R discs. These special burners cost around $4,000and provide no advantages for the average consumer or small business.The audio or video recorded is no better in quality. The differencesrelate to technical "mastering" features needed by the record companies.

NEWER "PLUS" DVD WRITERS These machines are an intermediary kind of drivethat are moving toward a kind of "random access" type DVD recordable disc that can be PLAYED on most DVD players. This format will giveboth the advantages of the playability of DVD-R discs and the editabilityof DVD-RAM discs. LIMITATION: The new plus +RW format discs cannot yetbe played on many DVD players, although that will change over the nextcouple of years as manufacturers add the +RW logic to their players.Also, the +RW discs now available cost about 6-to-7 times the cost ofDVD-R discs, and 2-to-3 times the costs of today's regular plain DVD-RWdiscs. Unless you need precisely this kind of drive for the newest mediadevelopment purposes, you probably need to stick with either the Pioneer104 or Panasonic LF-D311 above.

DVD MEDIA CHOICES:
GOLD Pro-Grade DVD-Rs, 4.7GB Gen. Purpose
Features a genuine gold metal reflector layer for the longest lasting storage times. Gold does not degrade due to environmental chemical hazards, heat and UV light like other metals. PROS: Creates the longest lasting recordings for data storage, archiving and portable uses. Compatible with the great majority of DVD burners, and DVD players that are DVD-R capable. CONS: More expensive than silver other discs due to the cost of the gold.

SILVER Standard-Grade DVD-Rs, 4.7GB Gen. Purpose
Reliable, economical general purpose DVD-R discs for everyday use. Features a stabilized silver-alloy that produces durable data storage discs and perfect, high fidelity audio or video reproductions. PROS: Achieves excellent quality recordings at the lowest possible costs. Compatible with the great majority of DVD burners, and DVD players that are DVD-R capable. CONS: Slightly more susceptible to chemical hazards, heat and strong UV exposure than the GOLD Pro-Grade discs.

ERASEABLE DVD-RW "Rewritables", 4.7GB Gen. Purpose
Great for day-to-day data storage and editing, where you need to record new versions of your videos, make software upgrades, backups, and so on. Can be fully re-recorded up to 1,000 times! PROS: Lets you use the same disc many hundreds of times for backups and editing, for about the cost of only 3 DVD-R discs, gives you the equivalent of 1,000 discs. Compatible with most DVD burners that burn general type DVD-Rs and some high end DVD players. CONS: Not compatible with as many DVD players as DVD-R discs and costs about 3 times as much as a single DVD-R disc, so it's not a good bet for distribution of your recordings or software upgrades.

DVD-RAM "Random Access" Editing DVD's 5.2, 4.7 & 9.4 GB
Expect these discs to cost much more than DVD-R and DVD-RW discs, but if you need their terrific editing "random access" advantages then they're darn well worth it! Of course, you'll need the DVD-RAM burners to write and play them, since they don't work in DVD players or regular "general type" DVD-R burners like the Pioneer A03 or 104 models.

CD-R MEDIA:
TRUSILVER "colorless" CD-Rs, 80-min 1X-16X speed
Features stabilized silver alloy reflector layer on a blank top, over a special clear recording layer material that is "invisible". With absolutely no color on their bottoms, TruSilvers look just like the music or software CD-ROMs that you buy in the stores. PROS: Gives your finished discs that professional touch that you may be looking for. CONS: May not burn on 1-2% of CD burners whose lasers have been tuned for blue or green dye CD-Rs. Will not burn at speeds faster than 16X.

FAST 24X Improved Silver CD-Rs, 80-min 1X-24X speed
Uses the "improved" phthalocyanine recording dye (light-greenish tint). Features stabilized silver alloy reflector layer on a blank top. PROS: This dye type is more resistant to heat and UV light exposure, making the disc more able to withstand environmental hazards in auto interiors, portable uses and so on. Many CD burner lasers have been specially tuned to write to these discs. Will record at today's fastest write speeds. Excellent compatibility with CD burners and players. Discs should last longer in tough environments than colorless or blue dyed discs would. CONS: Some people don't like the slight color of the bottom dye.

[AmbitiousLemon]

i tried to edit out all of the "buy it here" or "our price just..." stuff. let me know if i missed any and i apologize if i did miss any of it. just trying to give info not advertise for americal.com

[Hes Nikke]

since nobody seems to be able to keep diffrent DVD specs strait, lets all take a look at the DVD FAQ (http://www.dvddemystified.com/dvdfaq.html#4.3)

[mcrain]

Thanks Lemon. That really did help. Lemon-aid? Just kiddin, thanks again.

[AlphaTech]

Hey AmbitiousLemon...

I have a problem with part of that letter...

WHAT ABOUT 30X BURN SPEED?
Recordable DVD's can burn at 2X. Imagine, you're writing the equivalentof 30-CDRs in the hour it takes to fill a full 4.7 GB DVD-R at 2X. That works out to the equivalent of burning a CDR disc in about 2 minutes or so... or burning CDRs at 30X How's that for speed! DVD-R discs, even at 1X or 2X burn speeds, are working at lighteningspeeds, roughly equivalent to burning CD-R discs at 30X

If you figure a cd holds 700MB now (those are the only one's that I purchase) 30 of them comes out to being abou 21GB. My 24x burner does the 700MB cd in just over 3 minutes. Figuring that the 4.7GB dvd doesn't really hold that much (more like 4.5 after formatting and the conversion to real size). Giving it the benefit of the doubt, and being generous, say that 7-700MB cd's is equal to the 4.7GB dvd... I can still burn more data to cd in about half the time. Even factoring ejecting, inserting and such of the cd, it would come to between 25 and 30 minutes.

I think that vendor is trying to blow some smoke into a dark place...

[AmbitiousLemon]

:) thanks alpha. a very valid point. but still when some people here that dvd burning is 2x and 4 gigs. they think the 2x is the same 2x from cds. and they then start thinking it will take days to burn a dvd. i mean 2x just sounds slow by todays standards. i agree they seem to be going a bit far. i have a 12x cd burner and it will burner a 700mb cd in just over 5 minutes. seems like the dvd burner is more on speed witha 12x burner then than a 30x burner. a bit of a hyperbole. thanks for pointing that out. i hadnt given it much thought.

[rtoledo]

just a follow up.

the DVR104 is working great, with what software there is, none seems to support 2x yet on the PC side . all the problems I was/am having are related to the motherboard/bios/chipset issues

[dantec]

So has anyone bought one of those Sony DVD-RW discs? I can still not burn them in 10.1.3 with Toast or the Finder. I have a super drive which had the firmware 1.49 which I just upgraded to 1.69. No difference..!

If anyone has any DVD-RW media that works well, please forward me the name and the model please..!

[Beej]

Originally posted by dantec
If anyone has any DVD-RW media that works well, please forward me the name and the model please..! Yeah, I'm wondering about that, too. If you know, please either post it here or email me as well. Ta.

[rtoledo]

Originally posted by Beej
Yeah, I'm wondering about that, too. If you know, please either post it here or email me as well. Ta.

Hi, I'm using Memorex (green face insert)dvd-rw version 1.1 media, so far it's working great, have reformatted it several times while testing movies

I got 3 of these at Comp-usa 9.99 a piece ouch!

do a search at google for dvd-rw and on the right side of the screen are a few (ads) that sell this and other brands around 3.00 bucks

[Reeno]

Every time try to read a dvd keep getting errors found can someone help?????????

[PyroTurtle]

on the old SuperDrive in my QuickSilver 867 4.5 GB is burned in about 27 minutes, the longest was 28 minutes, most are closer to 26 minutes, and that's 4.5 GB on my parents computer which is usually more jacked up than my Ti 400. just thought i'd add that....

[rtoledo]

Originally posted by Scab Cake
Yes, the Superdrive burns/erases DVD-RW. I believe you can even erase your DVD-RWs in Disk Copy. I have yet to buy a disc (they're $17 at Fry's Electronics), though.

I've been snooping through the Apple iDVD discussion and people are even burning on double-sided DVD-R media from www.cd-recordable.com. It seems that the SuperDrive really is extremely versatile.

As far as DVD+RW, I believe I read a discussion about that on MacCentral. I am not going to even try to comment on what I can vaguely remember. However, if you're really interested, you can always search their forums. The +RW discs are also sold at Fry's Electronics for about the same price. I'll probably pick up a DVD-RW this weekend and see how it works.

If we are still on the DVR-103 or DVR-104 they do NOT support +RW only -RW

As for prices Comp USA has these for 9.99 and then there's this place
http://www.shop4tech.com/
http://store.yahoo.com/meritline/dvdmedia.html

they are selling them as low as 1.69 in 100 bulk for DVD-R and 3.29 for -RW

I appologise in advance if posting links are not allowed

[tmm4264]

Does the 104 support booting?

I want to replace my DVD-ROM drive with a 104, but I don't want to loose bootability.

Anyone have any results to report?

Thanks!

[BongHits]

Originally posted by irmongoose
Yes you can copy movie DVDs. Quite simple actually.

I've tried it many times at a friends house... it works perfectly... I use some type of DiVx software...

The best thing is that it takes out the region code... so I rent a Japanese DVD( American movie)... burn it... and watch it on my US Region Code DVD player... all for less than 1/3 the price of the DVD when you buy it.

So.. its possible... but I forget the software.



irmongoose

ummm...wtf would u even comment on knowing how to copy a DVD but not have any idea how to do it? Does anyone know how to copy a DVD? All my friends are like Whoa u have a dvd burner? Can u copy me a dvd, and all i can do is shrug my shoulders and shake my head. Wouldn't i need both a dvd player and superdrive to burn dvds??? if anyone knows how to burn dvd's on a mac let me know.

[Gus]

Originally posted by abe
So, if I can't copy movies and don't have a digital video cam (I do have a firewire backup disc so I wouldn't need it for backups), what the heck do I need the superdrive for ...?

Apple should add the option to choose the CD/RW or DVD/CD/RW drive instead for the 933MHz and 1GHz models...

Well, if you have a ton of photos that you would to take with you and share with family/friends you can make a slideshow with iDVD and burn it to a disc and watch them on your TV, or any variation therein. If you have someone else's iMovie footage on a CD or HD, you can put that into iDVD and burn a DVD of their iMovie (for them or you, whatever). Just a few options.

Gus

[Pepzhez]

by the way ... is it possible to copy a movie dvd with the superdrive?

Yes it is. In fact, all you really need to copy a movie is a DVD-ROM drive. I suggest DVD Backup 1.1 for OS X. Very easy to use and works perfectly. You can find the software you need at the link below, as well as other useful Mac utilities (such as making your drive region free):

http://www.opuscc.com/download/

And, no, there is nothing illegal about using any of these utilities (despite what the MPAA may lead you to believe).

[Pepzhez]

Woops! Just noticed that Opus is temporarily down. Try a Google search for "DVD Backup 1.1". I'm sure you can find it somewhere. You will need this app to backup the DVD to your HD, then you will need Toast 5 to actually burn it to disc. DVD Studio Pro and/or iDVD are useless for this task.

I can give you full instructions on how to backup and burn DVD copies, but I guess this is not the proper thread to do it in.

[pianojoe]

I'm using Memorex DVD-RWs, the ceheapest that Imgram Macrotron offers (about $10) and they work fine with my superdrive.

And hey, yes, you can copy movie DVDs to another DVD. If the DVD is not encrypted and holds less than 4.7 GB of data, it all comes down to copying a disk image in Toast. This is nice if you made one with iDVD and need to make a backup copy. As easy as 3.14.

If your movie DVD is region- and/or CSS-encrypted, there is no commercial software available to take care of that, because if it were, it would undermine the copy protection efforts of the DVD makers (they hold the rights on the, well, intellectual property of the DVD encryption mechanism).

If your movie is too large to fit on a DVD-R(W) (this is because movie DVDs can hold up to 9.2 GB), you might want to recompress it at a lower bitrate to make it fit. This will take forever (let's say, a day) and you will lose all the menu structure. There's a mighty tool called MediaPipe out there for Media conversion of all kind.

The DVD will be playable on a settop DVD player.

[BongHits]

Originally posted by Pepzhez


Yes it is. In fact, all you really need to copy a movie is a DVD-ROM drive. I suggest DVD Backup 1.1 for OS X. Very easy to use and works perfectly. You can find the software you need at the link below, as well as other useful Mac utilities (such as making your drive region free):

http://www.opuscc.com/download/

And, no, there is nothing illegal about using any of these utilities (despite what the MPAA may lead you to believe).
If you could help me with burning dvd movies that would be great. I live n an apartment with 2 other guys, and we are costantly watching or lending out our dvd collection. Sometimes they come back scratched and F&CK paying for a whole new copy. Basically i;m looking to backup my entire dvd archive. Please e-mail me at Bkonar@ameritech.net with any information you are able to provide on backing up my dvd's thanks.

Brian

[bousozoku]

Originally posted by Hes Nikke
since nobody seems to be able to keep diffrent DVD specs strait, lets all take a look at the DVD FAQ (http://www.dvddemystified.com/dvdfaq.html#4.3)

The FAQ page is good but it would be better if the companies would get together with each other, so we can just use the technology.

I like your signature. I recognised something in it so I went and got a 20 year old book to decode it. :D

[MacBandit]

Just so everyone know this. I've been researching DVD-R Disc prices recently. Seeing how I'm getting my first Superdrive equiped mac soon I hope (please ship it Apple).

If you're just buying a disc at a time $5 isn't that bad but if you want quantity you should be paying between $1.50 and $.79. The low end of the spectrum being for quantities of a hundred or more.

This makes using your DVD-R or Superdrive for back-up a reasonable thing to do.

I hope this helps.

Here's a few sites to check on prices.

http://www.supermediastore.com

http://www.meritline.com/

http://store.yahoo.com/cdrdvdrmedia/index.html

http://www.rima.com/

[AmbitiousLemon]

www.americal.com has great prices. you might want to check them as well.

[jutae]

I have a Pioneer DVR-104 in my Windows XP machine. Will it work in a Power Mac G4 Duall 867 (on order)?