iPod Clickwheels From Synaptics... Again

[MacBytes]

http://www.macbytes.com/images/bytessig.gif (http://www.macbytes.com)

Category: 3rd Party Hardware
Link: Synaptics gets the nod to help boost iPod supply (http://www.macbytes.com/link.php?sid=20051205170746)

Posted on MacBytes.com (http://www.macbytes.com)
Approved by Mudbug

[longofest]

The real news in this story might be the fact that Apple will not meet it's estimates of 8-10 million units sold (for the nano), and is having to downgrade its estimates to 7.5 million units. It won't be good news for investors.

[Jon'sLightBulbs]

Give us a no click wheel... like 3g... please!:)

[pdpfilms]

eh.... is apple's clickwheel supplier really headline news?

Edit: longofest changed punchline, now it seems a little more worthy.

[Jon'sLightBulbs]

Blew me out of the water.

[iMeowbot]

eh.... is apple's clickwheel supplier really headline news?
There were some complaints that the new ones feel cheaper, so this might be a good thing.

[longofest]

There were some complaints that the new ones feel cheaper, so this might be a good thing.

Absolutely. The new ones don't have enough foil around them, for one, so if a GSM phone goes off right next to the click-wheel of a nano or video iPod, the controls go nuts (assuming hold is off). Synaptics click wheels didn't have this problem.

[LaMerVipere]

It was foolish on Apple's part to think they and their new partner could handle all this on their own in the first place. Now Synaptics has to swing in to save the day. :)

And I agree about the new ones feeling cheaper, I've noticed this as well.

[jholzner]

Well, if Amazon.com's listings are any indication, the 30Gb iPod is the #1 and #3 top mp3 player right now. Maybe their nano est. are down but their regular iPod estimates are up.

[BornAgainMac]

The new 60 GB iPod will make up for any loss nano sales. Video in a portable will take off and secure MPEG-4 video as a real standard.

[Super Dave]

Give us a no click wheel... like 3g... please!:)

lol. I have the 3G and I can't stand it. I miss the 1G to be honest, so I suspect I'd enjoy the clickwheel.

In a winter climate it sucks to not be able to push buttons with gloves on. With the 1G or the clickwheel you can do everything but volume with gloves on. With the 3G you can't do ANYTHING with gloves on.

I guess you can't please everyone.

David :cool:

[rdowns]

mmm, maybe I should have held my 400 shares of SYNA. After taking a beating, I got out when it finally reached my buy in number a few weeks ago.

[Ja Di ksw]

lol. I have the 3G and I can't stand it. I miss the 1G to be honest, so I suspect I'd enjoy the clickwheel.

In a winter climate it sucks to not be able to push buttons with gloves on. With the 1G or the clickwheel you can do everything but volume with gloves on. With the 3G you can't do ANYTHING with gloves on.

I guess you can't please everyone.

David :cool:

I have both a 1G and 3G, and this is a big complaint for me as well. I dislike taking my gloves off, or having to reach in the pocket, or whatever, to change a song and the like. I miss the actual clicking on the 1G, and also suspect I would like having a clickwheel iPod (anyone in the generous christmas spirit? :rolleyes: :D )

[nagromme]

When did Apple announce expected nano sales of 8-10 million?

[dongmin]

When did Apple announce expected nano sales of 8-10 million?Apple announces no such info. It's a made-up number by the 'analysts' and rumor sites.

[shamino]

In a winter climate it sucks to not be able to push buttons with gloves on. With the 1G or the clickwheel you can do everything but volume with gloves on. With the 3G you can't do ANYTHING with gloves on.
With a 1G, you can do everything with gloves, because the wheel is mechanical.

Unfortunately, that design didn't last very long. It's still one of my favorites.

[thejadedmonkey]

The real news in this story might be the fact that Apple will not meet it's estimates of 8-10 million units sold (for the nano), and is having to downgrade its estimates to 7.5 million units. It won't be good news for investors.
I can't say I ever liked the new iPod look...from these numbers, I'd guess I'm not the only one.

[rickvanr]

Give us a no click wheel... like 3g... please!:)

Eww, the 3G was crap.
lol. I have the 3G and I can't stand it. I miss the 1G to be honest, so I suspect I'd enjoy the clickwheel.

In a winter climate it sucks to not be able to push buttons with gloves on. With the 1G or the clickwheel you can do everything but volume with gloves on. With the 3G you can't do ANYTHING with gloves on.


Ditto, I went from a 1G to a 3G and almost threw a fit, it was a pain, but then got a 4G and felt happiness run through my body again.

[mkubal]

Somewhere there's a Nano without a clickwheel. :( Poor Nano.

[EricNau]

Apple must be punching themselves for this...
They should have just stuck with Synaptics, unless there was a size issue for the Nano, anybody know?

Do you think anyone will be able to tell the difference between the two; like "Oh, darn, I got one of those from Cypress, I wanted a Synaptics"?

On the other hand, I'm buying a iPod Video, what brand makes that click-wheel for that? And are they any good?

[Super Dave]

With a 1G, you can do everything with gloves, because the wheel is mechanical.

Unfortunately, that design didn't last very long. It's still one of my favorites.

Oops. That's what I meant. Oh how I miss the 1G. It filled my life with joy. Not to mention that was still when iPods were "what-the-heck-is-that" cool instead of "everyone owns one…of course" cool.

Eww, the 3G was crap.

Ditto, I went from a 1G to a 3G and almost threw a fit, it was a pain, but then got a 4G and felt happiness run through my body again.

I have renewed hope! Can't wait til my 3G dies. I'm not North American enough to replace it before then, but I look forward to owning a video iPod with a clickwheel.

David:cool:

[Super Dave]

I can't say I ever liked the new iPod look...from these numbers, I'd guess I'm not the only one.

Just a head's up, but the numbers reflect the iPod nanos they think they can make, not how many they can sell. They're selling everyone they make.

David:cool:

[Misplaced Mage]

I can't say I blame Apple for trying to reduce the cost of the clickwheel and increase profits (I own Apple stock, BTW :) ). Do the math for the iPod nano alone using the forecast numbers and estimated teardown costs:

Apple/Cypress clickwheel: 8,000,000 x $0.45 = $3,600,000
Synaptics clickwheel: 8,000,000 x $1.00 = $8,000,000

Difference = $4,400,000

At these production scales, shaving even a tenth of a cent off the price of a part adds up to serious money over the life of a product. Of course you can wind up throwing all that money away in warranty costs if you compromise the quality in the process and end up with a lot of returns, but that's what your quality assurance people are paid to be checking.

[Bern]

lol. I have the 3G and I can't stand it. I miss the 1G to be honest, so I suspect I'd enjoy the clickwheel.

In a winter climate it sucks to not be able to push buttons with gloves on. With the 1G or the clickwheel you can do everything but volume with gloves on. With the 3G you can't do ANYTHING with gloves on. I guess you can't please everyone.
David :cool:

I've not worn gloves in Australia :p so I'd love to see the touch control return to the iPod. To me it was a much more "designer" look and feel. Having said that I just got a 5G iPod so maybe now there's no rush to change it.

[dontmatter]

wait, are they doing this because of supply or quality?

And then where's the supply holdup? clickwheels, flash, both, neither?

[EricNau]

wait, are they doing this because of supply or quality?

And then where's the supply holdup? clickwheels, flash, both, neither?

The entire thread is about click wheels, so that would be the holdup we are discussing (there could be a holdup in Flash also, but that's a different thread ;) ) and it is because of supply, so Apple says...They wouldn't admit their product was faulty, if there is a way to cover it up.

[longofest]

Apple must be punching themselves for this...
They should have just stuck with Synaptics, unless there was a size issue for the Nano, anybody know?

Do you think anyone will be able to tell the difference between the two; like "Oh, darn, I got one of those from Cypress, I wanted a Synaptics"?

On the other hand, I'm buying a iPod Video, what brand makes that click-wheel for that? And are they any good?

There wasn't a size issue, as Synaptics is now producing the nano clickwheels. Cypress makes the iPod Video click wheels, so while not a huge concern, you may experience a problem if your GSM phone goes off right next to the iPod's clickwheel.

[Misplaced Mage]

wait, are they doing this because of supply or quality?

And then where's the supply holdup? clickwheels, flash, both, neither?The answer is probably both, with only the order in question. You obviously need both to build a nano, and if you're short on both, the item you're shortest on determines how many you can build.

[EricNau]

There wasn't a size issue, as Synaptics is now producing the nano clickwheels. Cypress makes the iPod Video click wheels, so while not a huge concern, you may experience a problem if your GSM phone goes off right next to the iPod's clickwheel.

Thanks...
Only time I should be glad I have Verizon :p

[longofest]

Apple announces no such info. It's a made-up number by the 'analysts' and rumor sites.

In this case, it wasn't just "made-up". The 8-10 million number is being reported by ThinkSecret as Apple's initial internal forecast. It wasn't released, but I don't think ThinkSecret just "made-up" the number.

[mjstew33]

heh. whatever. i could care less about ipods right now :rolleyes:

[hayesk]

In this case, it wasn't just "made-up". The 8-10 million number is being reported by ThinkSecret as Apple's initial internal forecast. It wasn't released, but I don't think ThinkSecret just "made-up" the number.

It was made up by the person that sent it to ThinkSecret.

Honestly, they're not public record. They're a rumor site that is often wrong.

[Makosuke]

It was made up by the person that sent it to ThinkSecret.

Honestly, they're not public record. They're a rumor site that is often wrong.Actually, they're a rumor site that is only occasionally wrong--their record is extremely good on average.

But it's true that we're talking about total speculation. As a *rumor*, downgrading your internal target by 1/2 to 2.5 million units is significant, but it's not like it changes the fact that they're selling like hotcakes one way or the other.

[inxxcasinoxxout]

what's up with the 3g bashing? The touchwheel was simply elegant. Not to mention the badass red glow. I just hate the feel of the clickwheel. Everytime I use one, I can't help feeling it's clunky and not as well refined. But the biggest difference is the freaking colors. White on white looks so much better than grey on white.

But hey I've got a mini so I shouldn't be talking. :)

[2nyRiggz]

having a nano with the 3G wheel would be sweet...well as long as they can figure a way to put the controls on the wheel again.


Bless

[Stella]

The 4th and 5th Gen click wheel is excellent.

I didn't like the 3rd Gen, non moving parts isn't always good ( though I didn't have 3rd Gen iPod, I played with it in shops, but didn't like it).

The 1st / 2nd gens were excellent, the click wheel even better. At first I was a bit disappointed after I bought a 5th gen iPod, but now, its great. Though I would say that playing the games is a bit difficult, just the sensitivity of the wheel. Navigating through the menus is fine.

[rickvanr]

what's up with the 3g bashing? The touchwheel was simply elegant. Not to mention the badass red glow. I just hate the feel of the clickwheel. Everytime I use one, I can't help feeling it's clunky and not as well refined. But the biggest difference is the freaking colors. White on white looks so much better than grey on white.

But hey I've got a mini so I shouldn't be talking. :)

Hmm, well;

a) the 1G and 2G wheels where awesome. I could spin it, and when it got close to the artist I wanted to click on it, stop it from spinning, and then manually go down and select. Can't do that with the 3G and up.

b) the play, menu, forwards, and back controls where placed horrible on the 3G, when it was in my pocket I could never be sure I was going to select the right button, as with 1G, 2G, 4G, 5G I wouldn't have that problem.

[SiliconAddict]

With a 1G, you can do everything with gloves, because the wheel is mechanical.

Unfortunately, that design didn't last very long. It's still one of my favorites.


Moving parts == bad.

[jmsait19]

... Do you think anyone will be able to tell the difference between the two; like "Oh, darn, I got one of those from Cypress, I wanted a Synaptics"? ...

Just playing with them in the store I can feel a difference in the click wheels...

The Synaptics wheels have a somewhat bulbous center button and a slightly banked click wheel...

The Apple designed wheel is flat across the whole face...

[Fiveos22]

Ah the price of being popular.

[EricNau]

Besides the whole GSM phone thing (which I still don't understand), is one really better than the other?
I'm going to buy a iPod Video, and now I'm starting to get nervous.

Anybody have any advice about AppleCare for iPods?

[masterapple04]

I also have to throw in my support for the 3g wheel/buttons. I think it was the best looking iPod - no useless empty space, pure white, elegant, and that red glow when you need it. I dread the day I have to replace mine...:cool:

[themacman]

I also have to throw in my support for the 3g wheel/buttons. I think it was the best looking iPod - no useless empty space, pure white, elegant, and that red glow when you need it. I dread the day I have to replace mine...:cool:
although taht style is good, i htink the new ones are so much more functional.

[iMeowbot]

Besides the whole GSM phone thing (which I still don't understand), is one really better than the other?
Hard to say. One of the complaints about the Cypress/Hon Hai wheels is that some of them are physically loose, apparently sloppy tolerances. There there's that radio interference complaint, and also the sensitivity is simply different between the two types (but that part will end up as personal preference).

One thing to clear up: Both types of click wheel are outsourced. Even though Apple still do some of their own final assembly on computers to dodge customs regulations, the components come from OEMs and ODMs.

[EricNau]

Hard to say. One of the complaints about the Cypress/Hon Hai wheels is that some of them are physically loose, apparently sloppy tolerances. There there's that radio interference complaint, and also the sensitivity is simply different between the two types (but that part will end up as personal preference).

One thing to clear up: Both types of click wheel are outsourced. Even though Apple still do some of their own final assembly on computers to dodge customs regulations, the components come from OEMs and ODMs.

Thanks

[longofest]

Besides the whole GSM phone thing (which I still don't understand), is one really better than the other?
I'm going to buy a iPod Video, and now I'm starting to get nervous.

Anybody have any advice about AppleCare for iPods?

We should make one thing pretty clear. These issues are being highlighted in this forum, but in general are still minor in the grand scheme. Go to an Apple store or an iPod reseller and see how you like how the demo model's click wheel feels (keeping in mind that it has been handled by like 1,000 people).

If your particular iPod ends up having a really bad click wheel for some reason, you can always use your 1-year support option that comes standard with all iPods. In my view, AppleCare for iPod is a little overkill on the warranty.

For reference, I always suggest that people get Applecare with Mac purchases, so I'm not just an anti-applecare guy. I just think the iPod Applecare is overkill.

[EricNau]

We should make one thing pretty clear. These issues are being highlighted in this forum, but in general are still minor in the grand scheme. Go to an Apple store or an iPod reseller and see how you like how the demo model's click wheel feels (keeping in mind that it has been handled by like 1,000 people).

If your particular iPod ends up having a really bad click wheel for some reason, you can always use your 1-year support option that comes standard with all iPods. In my view, AppleCare for iPod is a little overkill on the warranty.

For reference, I always suggest that people get Applecare with Mac purchases, so I'm not just an anti-applecare guy. I just think the iPod Applecare is overkill.
Thanks
I've been to the Apple Store to try out the Video iPods, and to be honest, I couldn't feel a difference, but I also didn't expect to find one, so I'm not sure.
Anyway, I'm still going to buy one, and I'm sure I will love it. Still can't decide about AppleCare, with my luck, whatever I do will be the wrong choice. :(

[SPUY767]

Moving parts == bad.

Agreed, moving parts lend themselves to excessive wear and tear.

[mattyturner]

Hard to say. One of the complaints about the Cypress/Hon Hai wheels is that some of them are physically loose, apparently sloppy tolerances.

I'm afraid that's absolutely right. Someone at work got a new ipod and the click wheel wasn't completely flush. The bottom was slightly more raised than the top and you could feel it. Didn't stop me ordering within 5 minutes of holding it though!

[dernhelm]

I'm afraid that's absolutely right. Someone at work got a new ipod and the click wheel wasn't completely flush. The bottom was slightly more raised than the top and you could feel it. Didn't stop me ordering within 5 minutes of holding it though!

That's the thing. On a really well crafted product, even the slightest variance (which would be acceptable on any a more poorly crafted product) becomes bothersome.

That the price of what Apple is trying to do...

[deanwaterman]

I can't say I blame Apple for trying to reduce the cost of the clickwheel and increase profits (I own Apple stock, BTW :) ). Do the math for the iPod nano alone using the forecast numbers and estimated teardown costs:

Apple/Cypress clickwheel: 8,000,000 x $0.45 = $3,600,000
Synaptics clickwheel: 8,000,000 x $1.00 = $8,000,000

Difference = $4,400,000

At these production scales, shaving even a tenth of a cent off the price of a part adds up to serious money over the life of a product. Of course you can wind up throwing all that money away in warranty costs if you compromise the quality in the process and end up with a lot of returns, but that's what your quality assurance people are paid to be checking.

i would rather see Synaptics keep the deal, rather than settle for a company that made a promise and couldn't deliver on quantity or quality.

There comes a time for corporate responsibility where Apple and other companies need to quit screwing the little guy so they can make more $$$.

[deanwaterman]

Good Read!


http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-6450_7-5512416-1.html

[iMeowbot]

i would rather see Synaptics keep the deal, rather than settle for a company that made a promise and couldn't deliver on quantity or quality.
Cypress would be the source of the quantity problem, but any quality issues would belong to Apple (the wheel is their design) or Hon Hai (the company that actually builds them). Hon Hai build the Nano itself (and several other Apple products), so it's not as though they're incapable of doing a good job.

[iHavenolife]

Give us a no click wheel... like 3g... please!:)

Are you crazy?

[shamino]

Moving parts == bad.
Only when badly manufactured.

There are plenty of devices (like volume controls on stereo equipment) where mechanical knobs are far better than buttons or touch-pads.

And as has already been pointed out by others, touch-controls don't work in all situations. They don't work when you're wearing gloves, and they sometimes react when you don't want them to.

A well-manufactured mechanical control will not be any less reliable than touch-parts (which have also been known to fail.)

[ijimk]

thats kinda kool. i still want to be able to burn to a dvd and watch on my tv though.