Intel Yonah Processor Launch on January 6th?

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

CoolTechZone claims (http://www.cooltechzone.com/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=2064) to have insider knowledge of Intel's official launch date of the newest processor from Intel -- codenamed Yonah.

Intel’s Yonah is a dual-core chip based on the 65nm fabrication process. Yonah will also mark the first launch with Intel’s new strategy in place – performance per watt.

The debut is expected on January 6th, 2006.

Yonah has been speculated to be used in the first of the Intel-based Macs in early 2006. Speculation began (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2005/06/20050609212020.shtml) immediately after Apple's announcement (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2005/06/20050606143135.shtml) that it was moving to Intel processors (http://guides.macrumors.com/PowerPC_to_Intel_Transition). Intel has outlined (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2005/08/20050823140931.shtml) its processor plans in August.

Meanwhile, recent rumors have also expected that Apple will be launching its first Intel-based computers at Macworld San Francisco (http://guides.macrumors.com/Macworld_San_Francisco) which (conveniently) takes place between January 9-13, 2006.

[Motley]

Christmas comes in January? I can just imagine the atmosphere at Macworld just prior to the Stevenote. Just keep repeating "Less than a month"

[blufire]

Sweet :) Let's hope PowerBooks really do make it by April!

[Daveway]

My God.....

"The planets are aligning!":cool:

[Prom1]

I think Steve Jobs will be well received if he can proove with hard facts that the Intel cpu can outperform the G4 in the latest edition of the PowerBook, and the design of the new PowerBook looks out of this world.

Strange though how the PowerBook will get the Intel chip, while the PowerMac's have the Dual Core PPC MP's.

strange times indeed.

[powermac_daddy]

is the intel/mac ibook going to the cool? what's the deal?

[twoodcc]

My God.....

"The planets are aligning!":cool:

nice one. this seems like great news. let's hope that we don't have to wait until june to see a mactel

[-hh]

Because Mr. Steve made the Intel announcement 6 months ago, people will be expecting an update...and people tend to prefer something real and tangible, not Powerpoint (sorry: Keynote :)) charts.

Similarly, Apple very needs to motivate the Software vendors to get ready to roll out their Fat Binary style <PPC/Intel> software revisions/updates. As such, Apple also needs to show off "Real Hardware" to them that actually might realistically be for sale soon.

Be that as it may, simply showing off hardware doesn't mean that it will ship anytime soon: witness the 1st Generation G5's. I'd expect that Steve's pitch will be something along the lines of "Coming This Spring", which means that they can be delivered "on time" anytime up to the day before the summer solstice (June 20th, 2006).


-hh

[vouder17]

is the intel/mac ibook going to the cool? what's the deal?

It might very well be cool. :cool: We know just as much as you do. :)

[Prom1]

were not these cheaps ready to be produced in volume for some few weeks now by Intel?

I expect no more than 4 weeks if so.

[runninmac]

Sounds good but Im happy with my iBook G4 untill the kinks get worked out. All I want as a new "feature" in the 'books is a built in iSight. Is that to hard to ask santa jobs for christmas?;)

[BornAgainMac]

Yes, I bet they don't ship that day. It will be a Keynote slide and they will ship later just like the G5 did. But on the positive side, Apple will ship a ton of them and probably compare well to rival vendors in quantity sold of that high end processor.

Apple won't be 5% of the Yonah Processor market.

[Super Dave]

Anyone know of any worthwhile rumours on Fat Apps from major vendors yet?

David :cool:

[runninmac]

Apple won't be 5% of the Yonah Processor market.

That is an extremly good point! I havnt thought of that. Could they be at 20% (mabey?) They could be one of the biggest consumers of them:eek:

[maya]

I guess I should be happy, then again I don't plan on upgrading my hardware anytime soon. :)

[AidenShaw]

Yes, I bet they don't ship that day. It will be a Keynote slide and they will ship later just like the G5 did. But on the positive side, Apple will ship a ton of them and probably compare well to rival vendors in quantity sold of that high end processor.

Apple won't be 5% of the Yonah Processor market.
I'm sure that you're right.

If Yonah shows up in a Powerbook, most professionals will say "No thanks - I'll stick with my G4 until Rev B - unless Adobe waits until Rev c for the Photoshop port to MacIntel".

I'm sure that the first MacIntel will see an incredible spike in demand when it's introduced - but that spike won't be sustained by the professional crowd. Only the tech-geeks will want a MacIntel before the apps are ready.

And "ready" means "debugged, tested and optimized for SSE". Not merely "xxx is fat binary now".

[AidenShaw]

That is an extremly good point! I havnt thought of that. Could they be at 20% (mabey?) They could be one of the biggest consumers of them:eek:
Ummm.... Not likely.

Do you realize that the 95% of the market is also waiting for Yonah - and that their software is already ported and optimized for Intel?

This post make me ROTFLOL.... 20% market share - LMAO.

[NewbieNerd]

My big question is, do we see a fat discount in these first Mactels? If so we may see a lot of new people come Apple's way. Everyone's getting an iPod for Christmas (not literally, so don't bash me), which translates into more people checking out Apple.com for the first time. Even if we have to wait a long while for shipping, we might see even more kids convincing the parents to go for the Apple for college in late summer if the tricked out Powerbooks are closer to 2000 than 2500.

[Chaszmyr]

Ummm.... Not likely.

Do you realize that the 95% of the market is also waiting for Yonah - and that their software is already ported and optimized for Intel?

This post make me ROTFLOL.... 20% market share - LMAO.

He didn't mean 20% of the computer market share, he meant 20% of the Yonah market share. Apple has roughly 5% of the computer market share, but only about half of the computer market uses Intel processors... which would give Apple 10% of Intel's marketshare, and not everyone who uses Intel processors will use Yonah processors. Will Apple have 20% of the Yonah market? Probably not, but it's not much of a stretch.

[Staffroomer]

I'm holding out for an Intel iBook. I wonder if I'm wasting my time. Perhaps I should just get a G4 iBook. I will have to if the Intel iBooks don't have Firewire..

[AidenShaw]

My big question is, do we see a fat discount in these first Mactels? If so we may see a lot of new people come Apple's way.
If Apple comes out with a $700 dual-core Yonah - you'll see lots of people buying their new XP system from Apple!!

[zap2]

2+2=4

Steve's Math

Yonah+PowerBook= $$$$

i would hope the PB don't see intel for sometime becuz while the might have raw speed over the G4s when it comes to 3rd party Pro-apps for Vidoe and Pic editing the emulator for PPC on intel will be slower the G4 PB.


For intel iBooks raw speed would go up and since less vidoe and pic editing are used by iBook owners , the negative of intel would not be felt(or be felt less)

[mduser63]

I really hope the first Mac to be switched to Intel is the Mac mini and that it includes Front Row (2.0?). If that's the case, I'll order one the day they're announced. I don't need a new Mac right now, as my Power Mac and PowerBook have me well covered. But, if an Intel Mac mini is announced, I'll buy one partly so I can have an Intel Mac to play around with, but mostly because I'd love to have a little Media Center Mac in my room.

[iGary]

I think I just threw up in mouth a little™.

[NewbieNerd]

Thankfully I'm not a video/pic editting person, so I'm probably going to be very interested in a rev A. As long as you've got a Unix terminal and some compilers, I'll be a happy camper. :cool:

Offering NBA Live '07 next year on a Mactel wouldn't be too bad either, hehe.

[Daveway]

i would hope the PB don't see intel for sometime becuz while the might have raw speed over the G4s when it comes to 3rd party Pro-apps for Vidoe and Pic editing the emulator for PPC on intel will be slower the G4 PB.
For intel iBooks raw speed would go up and since less vidoe and pic editing are used by iBook owners , the negative of intel would not be felt(or be felt less)

idk....We've heard some great things coming out of the Rosetta camp lately like near RT emulation w/ Altivec support.

[~Shard~]

January 6th, huh? Hmm, a few days before the Keynote, what a coincidence... :cool:

[strange days]

I really hope the first Mac to be switched to Intel is the Mac mini and that it includes Front Row (2.0?). If that's the case, I'll order one the day they're announced. I don't need a new Mac right now, as my Power Mac and PowerBook have me well covered. But, if an Intel Mac mini is announced, I'll buy one partly so I can have an Intel Mac to play around with, but mostly because I'd love to have a little Media Center Mac in my room.

yeah, give me a dual core Mac Mini and i'm in line too... =)

[Daveway]

I think I just threw up in mouth a little™.

There, there, Gary, all good things must come to an end.:( I can see you may be amoung the few who will need a Prozac because of withdrawals when you all rip the "Intel Inside" stickers off your new mac.

[thejadedmonkey]

if apple can make a laptop that has a 2 button mouse, that would convince me to switch. What a way to convince a kid to get a job...

So excited!

[p0intblank]

This is so exciting. :) I'm glad I have made the switch to the Mac. I can now witness the Intel switch officially. That is if it even happens next month. My hopes are extremely high, especially with numerous rumors all claiming the same thing. I just hope the Mac mini is the first one to receive the switch. I'd buy one. :D

[snoboardguy21]

Has anyone thought that maybe, just maybe, Adobe and some/all of the other key players in the real value of a new Intel mac already have their programs ported and optimized? I'm sure Adobe has their hands on a few Dev kits. Just because no one's announced any Universal Binary programs doesn't mean they aren't ready. Who's ever though of releasing software when there's no hardware to run it on? Adobe may have a copy of Creative Suite 2.5 in Universal Binary sitting on the shelf ready to be run on intel as we speak. What good would it do them to announce it? Sure, it might make a lot of people say, "Hey, if Adobe's ready, I'll start coming up with the bones to buy one of these intel macs." Either way no one will buy UB software w/o a machine to run it on (unless of course its a new version that's been released in UB, but I don't see a new creative suite w/in the month or even w/in the next six).

[NewbieNerd]

January 6th, huh? Hmm, a few days before the Keynote, what a coincidence... :cool:

Is Intel as excited/interested in having us as we are about them? I mean, does Intel care that much what Apple has to say at MWSF?

[p0intblank]

Has anyone thought that maybe, just maybe, Adobe and some/all of the other key players in the real value of a new Intel mac already have their programs ported and optimized? I'm sure Adobe has their hands on a few Dev kits. Just because no one's announced any Universal Binary programs doesn't mean they aren't ready. Who's ever though of releasing software when there's no hardware to run it on? Adobe may have a copy of Creative Suite 2.5 in Universal Binary sitting on the shelf ready to be run on intel as we speak. What good would it do them to announce it? Sure, it might make a lot of people say, "Hey, if Adobe's ready, I'll start coming up with the bones to buy one of these intel macs." Either way no one will buy UB software w/o a machine to run it on (unless of course its a new version that's been released in UB, but I don't see a new creative suite w/in the month or even w/in the next six).

I wouldn't be surprised if Adobe, like you said, already have patches set to release. I don't have the CS2 suite, but I do have CS1. I would imagine they would take care of both CS1 and CS2 user. Or at least I hope they would...

[NewbieNerd]

Has anyone thought that maybe, just maybe, Adobe and some/all of the other key players in the real value of a new Intel mac already have their programs ported and optimized? I'm sure Adobe has their hands on a few Dev kits. Just because no one's announced any Universal Binary programs doesn't mean they aren't ready. Who's ever though of releasing software when there's no hardware to run it on? Adobe may have a copy of Creative Suite 2.5 in Universal Binary sitting on the shelf ready to be run on intel as we speak. What good would it do them to announce it? Sure, it might make a lot of people say, "Hey, if Adobe's ready, I'll start coming up with the bones to buy one of these intel macs." Either way no one will buy UB software w/o a machine to run it on (unless of course its a new version that's been released in UB, but I don't see a new creative suite w/in the month or even w/in the next six).

Prepare to get assaulted on bringing this up in here. People around here have been arguing about this, specifically Adobe, every since the Intel announcement, with some strong voices against what you are hoping for.
:p

[AidenShaw]

but only about half of the computer market uses Intel processors...
Links, please?

Are you talking about x86 desktops? Servers? Smartphones? PDAs? TiVos? Automobiles? All processors?

"half Intel" seems pretty low if you're talking about x86 laptops....

[Stella]

That should be fairly straight forward, G4s are dinosaurs, living on extra borrowed time. Anyone who seriously thinks that G4 based laptop can compete with a machine containing recent Intel p-m ( or AMD ) mobile processors need a reality check.

If these processors being released beginning of January there is no reason why Apple can't start shipping x86 laptops in a relatively short period of time afterwards. Apple have had time to build a laptop and OSX is ready.


I think Steve Jobs will be well received if he can proove with hard facts that the Intel cpu can outperform the G4 in the latest edition of the PowerBook, and the design of the new PowerBook looks out of this world.

Strange though how the PowerBook will get the Intel chip, while the PowerMac's have the Dual Core PPC MP's.

strange times indeed.

[greenstork]

Has anyone thought that maybe, just maybe, Adobe and some/all of the other key players in the real value of a new Intel mac already have their programs ported and optimized? I'm sure Adobe has their hands on a few Dev kits. Just because no one's announced any Universal Binary programs doesn't mean they aren't ready. Who's ever though of releasing software when there's no hardware to run it on? Adobe may have a copy of Creative Suite 2.5 in Universal Binary sitting on the shelf ready to be run on intel as we speak. What good would it do them to announce it? Sure, it might make a lot of people say, "Hey, if Adobe's ready, I'll start coming up with the bones to buy one of these intel macs." Either way no one will buy UB software w/o a machine to run it on (unless of course its a new version that's been released in UB, but I don't see a new creative suite w/in the month or even w/in the next six).

I'm sure that Adobe will have a CS version ready to go when Apple debuts Intel machines in their pro lineup. From what I've read, Intel in the PB is still questionable at this point, and since the Yonah really is a portable chip, there won't be an Intel desktop until at least mid to late 2006 when Dothan is released. While it would be nice, it really isn't critical for Adobe to have a universal binary version of CS ready for Mac minis and iBooks. That said, I'm sure Adobe is diligently working on it. You can bet they've had access to the most recent builds and prototype hardware before any other outside vendor.

[wtmcgee]

What sucks is that now, if intel based computers aren't announced 6 MONTHS before publicly stated, people are going to be disappointed.

[SuperChuck]

Why the heck would Intel launch a hotly anticipated chip in India? I can see a lot of venues that would make sense, but India does not make my short list. Can someone tell me what I'm missing?

[Mac_Freak]

Ummm.... Not likely.

Do you realize that the 95% of the market is also waiting for Yonah - and that their software is already ported and optimized for Intel?

This post make me ROTFLOL.... 20% market share - LMAO.
Yeap, I guess you are right. My Wacom Tablet driver is already Intel/PPC ready. :D

[thedude110]

It might very well be cool. :cool: We know just as much as you do. :)

What? Cool Powerbooks?

Does that mean the end of the hot powerbook threads (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=156771) and their associated references to pornography and loins?

God. This move to Intel ruins everything. :eek:

[ifjake]

i wonder how well a intel dual core mac mini could handle H.264.

[NewbieNerd]

i wonder how well a intel dual core mac mini could handle H.264.

Better yet, make it a Quad. :rolleyes:

[2nyRiggz]

yea im looking foward to a macintel mini...i dont have enough $$ right now to get the powerbook.

Bless

[iEdd]

Links, please?

Are you talking about x86 desktops? Servers? Smartphones? PDAs? TiVos? Automobiles? All processors?

"half Intel" seems pretty low if you're talking about x86 laptops....
He's just making up statistics to prove a point. 46% of people do that. :D

This thread is great news. I think apple will ship the macs close to straight away. "Shipping in two weeks" perhaps? :cool:

[~Shard~]

This thread is great news. I think apple will ship the macs close to straight away. "Shipping in two weeks" perhaps? :cool:

I'd say February myself, but I guess we'll see. Regardless, the Intel Macs are coming sooner rather than later, and I'm very excited to see how things unfold in this brave new Mac world.

[supersalzme]

How long after they are released will it be noticable if they are stable or not? As much as I want to go buy one the day they come out.....I don't want to drop 2000 bucks on something that is buggy.

[maya]

How long after they are released will it be noticable if they are stable or not? As much as I want to go buy one the day they come out.....I don't want to drop 2000 bucks on something that is buggy.

With Apples previous performance with revs, I say rev C. Then again its hard to predict since we do not know the update cycle, as it could be frequent in the future than what it used to be in the past with PPC. :)

[Mechcozmo]

if apple can make a laptop that has a 2 button mouse, that would convince me to switch. What a way to convince a kid to get a job...

So excited!

I have one with my Rev. C 12" PowerBook.
What you say?
(:p)
iScroll 2. Best_app_ever_and_a_reason_to_overuse_underscores_

:D Linkety (http://www-users.kawo2.rwth-aachen.de/~razzfazz/iscroll2/)

[supersalzme]

With Apples previous performance with revs, I say rev C. Then again its hard to predict since we do not know the update cycle, as it could be frequent in the future than what it used to be in the past with PPC. :)

So basically I'm going to buy the current powerbook (the 17") for cheap, because my guess is all the current pb's will drop in price pretty hard. I would get the 15"...but...

[AidenShaw]

and since the Yonah really is a portable chip, there won't be an Intel desktop until at least mid to late 2006 when Dothan is released.
Ummm, I'm typing this from a Dothan laptop... Do you mean Conroe or perhaps Merom?

While it would be nice, it really isn't critical for Adobe to have a universal binary version of CS ready for Mac minis and iBooks. That said, I'm sure Adobe is diligently working on it. You can bet they've had access to the most recent builds and prototype hardware before any other outside vendor.
Adobe has been publicly saying that the Intel port is a lot more work than "The Turtleneck" has been claiming, and they won't be releasing fat-binary versions of CS until the next cross-platform CS update.

Do you have proof that what Chizen's been saying is wrong?

[greenstork]

Ummm, I'm typing this from a Dothan laptop... Do you mean Conroe or perhaps Merom?



I did mean Conroe, oops :rolleyes:

And I don't have proof but I know that Apple isn't stupid enough to release a pro machine without the favorite pro apps ready to go and up to speed.

[AidenShaw]

He's just making up statistics to prove a point. 46% of people do that. :D
You're 93.14159265358979323846% correct :D.

This thread is great news. I think apple will ship the macs close to straight away. "Shipping in two weeks" perhaps? :cool:
"Two weeks" is pretty close to "February"...

[ffakr]

AidenShaw still posts in these rags? Man have I been out of it. :)
I seem to remember some good arguments with Aiden a long time ago, I'll have to search the archives some time.

Here's my take.
As I argued from WWDC this year, I fully expect the Mini to be among the first machines to go x86 for various (many) reasons.
I'm still not sure about Powerbooks. Initially I had argued vigorously that they would not because Apple would do their 'test run' on non-Pro models.
This brings the ibook into question but what would justify the move better than a 1.8GHz P-M iBook embarrasing a 1.67GHz PowerBook in pretty much any benchmark you could devise (not that a 1.6 GHz PM wouldn't do the same).

As for Adobe, I'd be shocked if they have a fat binary any time soon. Far as I know, CS2 is still full of Carbon code because Adobe (and Microsoft) never bothered to re-write all their big apps. It was too much work when you could simply release another minor revision of the same 10 year old product. Strictly speaking, I think my favorite version of Photoshop was v.4.
I have heard that they are working altivec emulation into Rosetta so I do expect that we'll see pretty robust emulation in 10.4.4. The problem earlier was simply that Altivec was more comprehensive but you can always work around the lack of a hardware-level instruction with an algorithm. And of course, a dual core Yonah WOULD likely run emulated PPC code faster than a G4. Don't get me wrong, I love the 17" powerbook I'm typing on but this CPU is 1-2 years past pasture. Computationally speaking, this thing is strung together with bailing wire and duct tape.

As for ship dates...
Apple re-invented the wheel with the G5. I would be absolutely shocked if the first x86 Macs (and probably all others as well) weren't much more than Intel reference designs. Apple will save a bundle on R&D. They will have product out as fast as any other large vendor. Hopefully they'll pass cost savings on to the faithful. Intel has supposedly been in production of Yonah for a bit already. They've already given samples out to web sites to review. I suspect that they'll have the chip in volume by January 6th. I expect Apple will have product available at or very near January 9th.
For those citing the G5 roll out, I hope you recall that IBM appeared to be the bottleneck there. The slower cpu G5s were rolling in quantity long before the dual 2.0. That tells me the system was in production at Apple's end and this was just a volume issue with IBM.

ffakr.

[prostuff1]

This is good news and i would love to see them come out early.

My plan is to leave my iMac with gram when i move into an apartment/dorm for college. I will still make her pay me for it...i am not that generous then i will turn around and buy a mini (hopefully with intel and front row (2.0?)) then buy a nice big dell display and hook that sucker up to the mini. Hopefully i can also run some cable or satellite through it also. Would make a nice setup for a small dorm.

I hope this turns out to be true!!

[nagromme]

At the same time, some analysts are still saying Yonah won't ship in quantity for months, and that Apple might be unable to get anything better than Dothan until 2007. :o

I certainly hope something with Yonah is shown in Jan. Maybe not the model I want (PowerBook) and maybe not shipping right away, but if I can get something in my hands by March I'll be happy.

Everyone must pick the timing that works for them. But as a pro user, I have good reasons for moving soon on a rev A. SOME apps will be slower (a lot? too early to say)--for a time--while others are faster. I need a new computer soon and can accept that, because as a LONG-term (more than 12 months) purchase, it will give me something a G4 can't: the next generation platform.

[chubad]

Has anyone thought that maybe, just maybe, Adobe and some/all of the other key players in the real value of a new Intel mac already have their programs ported and optimized? I'm sure Adobe has their hands on a few Dev kits. Just because no one's announced any Universal Binary programs doesn't mean they aren't ready. Who's ever though of releasing software when there's no hardware to run it on? Adobe may have a copy of Creative Suite 2.5 in Universal Binary sitting on the shelf ready to be run on intel as we speak. What good would it do them to announce it? Sure, it might make a lot of people say, "Hey, if Adobe's ready, I'll start coming up with the bones to buy one of these intel macs." Either way no one will buy UB software w/o a machine to run it on (unless of course its a new version that's been released in UB, but I don't see a new creative suite w/in the month or even w/in the next six).

Adobe has said they won't be ported until 2007. They are already way into CS3 development. The Powermacs will be the last to go intel as Steve stated. I just took delivery of a new Quad. I want to totally avoid the intel switch until everything, apps, and hardware is revision 2.
I'm set for a good long time.:D

[AidenShaw]

OK, so this story says that Intel announces the dual-core Yonah on Friday, 6 January.

If history is any clue - that means that Dell, HP, Lenovo, Gateway, Lenovo, ... will be announcing dual-core Yonah laptops on 6 January as well - with immediate availability.

And Jobs will go onstage the following Tuesday and say "One more thing..."?

Or maybe Apple will release the new dual-core Powerbooks on Friday, and the following Tuesday Jobs will say "BTW, some of you are already typing on..."? I don't think "sometime in February" will fly if people in the audience already have their Windows Yonahs.

[NewbieNerd]

This is good news and i would love to see them come out early.

My plan is to leave my iMac with gram when i move into an apartment/dorm for college. I will still make her pay me for it...i am not that generous then i will turn around and buy a mini (hopefully with intel and front row (2.0?)) then buy a nice big dell display and hook that sucker up to the mini. Hopefully i can also run some cable or satellite through it also. Would make a nice setup for a small dorm.

I hope this turns out to be true!!

Did your grandma buy that iMac for you? :eek:

[iZoom P5]

My fingers are crossed!!

Since MWSF is mainly a consumer-oriented event, it could be possible that upon announcement of the Intel Macs, Adobe could release PS Elements 3.0 (or even 4.0 :eek: ) all ready to go. Consumer apps for consumer hardware... seems like a good match to me.

[prostuff1]

Did your grandma buy that iMac for you? :eek:

Nope...well if you count graduation money but that really was not all that much. I payed for my computers on my own, and i am very proud of it. Worked two summers at a golf course to pay for my computers, and car, and anything else i wanted. Mom and dad took care of the mom and dad stuff but anything i wanted i bought.

[NewbieNerd]

Nope...well if you count graduation money but that really was not all that much. I payed for my computers on my own, and i am very proud of it. Worked two summers at a golf course to pay for my computers, and car, and anything else i wanted. Mom and dad took care of the mom and dad stuff but anything i wanted i bought.

Alright, I'll let you off the hook. :) Glad you're a responsible like that.

[treblah]

As for ship dates...
Apple re-invented the wheel with the G5. I would be absolutely shocked if the first x86 Macs (and probably all others as well) weren't much more than Intel reference designs. Apple will save a bundle on R&D. They will have product out as fast as any other large vendor. Hopefully they'll pass cost savings on to the faithful. Intel has supposedly been in production of Yonah for a bit already. They've already given samples out to web sites to review. I suspect that they'll have the chip in volume by January 6th. I expect Apple will have product available at or very near January 9th.
For those citing the G5 roll out, I hope you recall that IBM appeared to be the bottleneck there. The slower cpu G5s were rolling in quantity long before the dual 2.0. That tells me the system was in production at Apple's end and this was just a volume issue with IBM.


I fully agree with you on Apple using pretty basic Intel reference designs.
I think this can be determined pretty easily by the lack of effort needed to run 'OSx86' on basically any Intel motherboard. (Really any x86 board for that matter)

I also think that all the 'I'm not touching a MacIntel with a ten foot pole until Rev. C' people should reconsider if Apple is using a Intel motherboard. I don't think anyone will argue Intel engineers trounce Apple engineers when it come to motherboards. ;)

[generik]

I fully agree with you on Apple using pretty basic Intel reference designs.
I think this can be determined pretty easily by the lack of effort needed to run 'OSx86' on basically any Intel motherboard. (Really any x86 board for that matter)

I also think that all the 'I'm not touching a MacIntel with a ten foot pole until Rev. C' people should reconsider if Apple is using a Intel motherboard. I don't think anyone will argue Intel engineers trounce Apple engineers when it come to motherboards. ;)

I have absolute confident in Intel mainboards, unless of course they hire some engineers from companies like ABit :o

[Josh396]

He's just making up statistics to prove a point. 46% of people do that. :D

This thread is great news. I think apple will ship the macs close to straight away. "Shipping in two weeks" perhaps? :cool:
And you're one of the 46%, because we know that figure is actually 44%.;)

I agree with the shipment times but I think it will probably be around 3 to 4 weeks.

[nomad01]

This post make me ROTFLOL.... 20% market share - LMAO.

<sigh> Was that really necessary??

[DaftUnion]

Can't wait to see what Steve does with the Intel macs...my friend keeps telling me repeatedly that they ARE going to release the new PowerBooks...so I'm guessing those are going to debut (I do trust him) and he keeps telling me when I ask him how he knows this that "he'd tell me, but he'd have to kill me" but I'm almost 100% positive about the PowerBooks...and possibly more product lines will be released too....

[NewbieNerd]

Can't wait to see what Steve does with the Intel macs...my friend keeps telling me repeatedly that they ARE going to release the new PowerBooks...so I'm guessing those are going to debut (I do trust him) and he keeps telling me when I ask him how he knows this that "he'd tell me, but he'd have to kill me" but I'm almost 100% positive about the PowerBooks...and possibly more product lines will be released too....

You better be careful spreading gossip like that around here and exciting already impatient nerds. When we don't see Intel Powerbooks until 2007, you and your friend will be on many of our hit lists... ;)

[applekid]

What's the point of releasing Intel machines this early?

As far as I can tell, the dev release of Tiger only has iTunes as a universal binary. Everything else is emulated through Rosetta! Please correct me if I'm wrong!

[adam1185]

What's the point of releasing Intel machines this early?

As far as I can tell, the dev release of Tiger only has iTunes as a universal binary. Everything else is emulated through Rosetta! Please correct me if I'm wrong!

I think you're wrong. I thought iTunes was one of the last apps that came with Tiger to be turned into a universal binary. The reason it took longer than most other Tiger apps was that it is carbon.

[Peace]

What's the point of releasing Intel machines this early?

As far as I can tell, the dev release of Tiger only has iTunes as a universal binary. Everything else is emulated through Rosetta! Please correct me if I'm wrong!

You are wrong ;)

[MacQuest]

Is Intel as excited/interested in having us as we are about them? I mean, does Intel care that much what Apple has to say at MWSF?

Nah. Intel would hate winning over a whole new customer base from competitors like IBM and Motorola and having them switch to their own architecture. I'm sure there's no hurry on Intels part to win over the "hearts and minds" of the Mac community.

They'll probably just put it on the back burner or something. I can see the Intel execs now: "More money? Meh... it can wait".

:rolleyes:

[magi.sys]

When Apple makes the switch to Intel chips, I hope they use the sockets and not solder the CPU directly onto the PCB. I wanna be able to upgrade CPUs just like with peecees.

[sw1tcher]

I'm holding out for an Intel iBook. I wonder if I'm wasting my time. Perhaps I should just get a G4 iBook. I will have to if the Intel iBooks don't have Firewire..

If you need an iBook right now, you can get the 12" iBook from Amazon for $799 after a $100 mail-in rebate

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0009U7WZM/ref=nosim/104-6701279-8653518?n=541966

[Tristan_X]

When Apple makes the switch to Intel chips, I hope they use the sockets and not solder the CPU directly onto the PCB. I wanna be able to upgrade CPUs just like with peecees.

YES! This would be grand. More modular technology, please. I would buy computers just as regularly with that as an option, replacing my CPU halfway between purchases.

Steve...oh Steve...should you hear our wishes, please make them come true.

[FaasNat]

YES! This would be grand. More modular technology, please. I would buy computers just as regularly with that as an option, replacing my CPU halfway between purchases.

Steve...oh Steve...should you hear our wishes, please make them come true.
I would like to be able to upgrade my video card without having to use a "Mac Edition" version of the card. Being able to use the equivalent ones for the other folks would save me a bunch (well somewhat) of money....

[iEdd]

Steve will announce a mac mini and a powerbook, then a new iPod shuffle, go through the features, etc, press the wrong button, talk to madonna through iChat and then summarise. He will then say "one more thing..." whilst pointing to a member of the audience in the middle. "John, I'm wearing your underwear". :p

[starnox]

Will be interesting to see if Apple releases a Mac Mini with this in since that's what Aopen is planning to do: http://news.techwhack.com/2604/061205-aopen-to-use-intel-yonah-processor-in-their-mac-mini-replica/

[sappo]

I'm sure that you're right.

If Yonah shows up in a Powerbook, most professionals will say "No thanks - I'll stick with my G4 until Rev B - unless Adobe waits until Rev c for the Photoshop port to MacIntel"

Non every "professional" uses Photoshop, not every "professional" does graphics.
I want a Intel PowerBook to run eclipse FAST! :p

[NewbieNerd]

Non every "professional" uses Photoshop, not every "professional" does graphics.
I want a Intel PowerBook to run eclipse FAST! :p

IDEs are for wimps. vim baaaaby!! :p

[Platform]

Mac mini with the Yonah....that would be great

Just get them out...:D

[JFreak]

I fully agree with you on Apple using pretty basic Intel reference designs.

There's one valid point that makes me disagree: The Clone Wars. IF indeed Apple wants OSX to only exist in Apple-branded hardware (at this point anyway), then the easiest would be to build a custom memory controller and code OSX to require its presence. Hardware lock, that is. Therefore... I think that Apple builds custom motherboards as long as they want to keep OSX for themselves.

Once they go 100% standard parts, then OSX can be installed to a standard Dell. Open competition against Windows. Do they want it right away? I don't think so. They'll probably open OSX once Microsoft releases their Longshot(tm).

[~Shard~]

I don't think "sometime in February" will fly if people in the audience already have their Windows Yonahs.

This is the type of thing I have been saying all along with regards to the switch to Intel. Apple will need to step up and keep pace with the rest of the Intel world now - marginal upgrades every few months is not going to cut it. If PC users have the latest and greatest technology in their PCs, the Mac community isn't going to find it acceptable to have to wait for months to realize the same benefits. It will be interesting to see how Apple handles this and adjusts.

[aegisdesign]

And I don't have proof but I know that Apple isn't stupid enough to release a pro machine without the favorite pro apps ready to go and up to speed.

They've done it before. see Quark.

[rosalindavenue]

Yes, I bet they don't ship that day. It will be a Keynote slide and they will ship later just like the G5 did.

I respectfully disagree. Intel doesn't work like Motorola/Freescale. Generally, the same day Intel chips are "released" you can order a Dell with one built in, and they ship the same week. When Intel says "released," they really mean it.

[aegisdesign]

Will be interesting to see if Apple releases a Mac Mini with this in since that's what Aopen is planning to do: http://news.techwhack.com/2604/061205-aopen-to-use-intel-yonah-processor-in-their-mac-mini-replica/

The problem will be price...

Yonah pricing is allegedly...

At 667MHz FSB we have:

X50 at 2.16GHz $639 (dual core)
X40 at 2GHz $422 (dual core)
X30 at 1.83GHz $295 (dual core)
X20 at 1.66GHz $241 (dual core)
756 at 1.66GHz $209 (single core)

At 667MHz FSB low voltage we have:

X48 at 1.66GHz $315 (dual core)
X38 at 1.5GHz $285 (dual core)

At 533MHz FSB ultra low voltage we have:

1.2GHz $260 (single core)
1.06GHz $240 (single core)


So which of those fits in a $499 Mac Mini? or for that matter a $999 (or less) iBook.

G4 processors are much, much cheaper than Intel. For instance OWC sell a Dual 1.6Ghz 7447 upgrade including sinks and fans for £249.

[dernhelm]

If Apple comes out with a $700 dual-core Yonah - you'll see lots of people buying their new XP system from Apple!!

You might see this anyway. I could see Apple biting into some of the marketshare held by Alienware and companies like that. Contrary to popular belief, there are a lot of windows users that would pay for good engineering and style. Now don't get me wrong, Apple is not targetting Alienware (nor should they!), nonetheless, a side effect of this transition is that people will by Apple machines and install XP on them. And many of those people are the same people who wouldn't be caught dead with a Dell or HP.

[dernhelm]

YES! This would be grand. More modular technology, please. I would buy computers just as regularly with that as an option, replacing my CPU halfway between purchases.

Steve...oh Steve...should you hear our wishes, please make them come true.


Agreed. Apple has a chance to really differentiate themselves here, and they should do all the little things that can make that happen. It would be just a little ironic if the first Intel Macs were also the most "hackable" and "upgradable" PCs on the planet.

Apple needs to embrace the people who like to tinker with their computers. Get in good with us, and you'll get all the good free publicity you can shake a stick at!

[aegisdesign]

Contrary to popular belief, there are a lot of windows users that would pay for good engineering and style.

...and yet still run Windows on it. Oh the irony... :eek:

[mstecker]

As for Adobe, I'd be shocked if they have a fat binary any time soon. Far as I know, CS2 is still full of Carbon code because Adobe (and Microsoft) never bothered to re-write all their big apps. It was too much work when you could simply release another minor revision of the same 10 year old product.


Huh? Carbon code is just as easy to compile for x86 as Cocoa code. Just hit the magic button and it's done. Now Adobe does have some challenges - likely porting from CodeWarrior to XCode (2 developers for 2 weeks tops), porting all of the custom altivec code (probably not too hard because they already have the intel optimized code for the Windows builds).

This is - for some reason - a fallacy that I've heard over and over about the x86 transition. Carbon code will recompile and run on x86. New apps can be written for x86 using the Carbon APIs.

Matthew

[Platform]

The problem will be price...

Yonah pricing is allegedly...

At 667MHz FSB we have:

X50 at 2.16GHz $639 (dual core)
X40 at 2GHz $422 (dual core)
X30 at 1.83GHz $295 (dual core)
X20 at 1.66GHz $241 (dual core)
756 at 1.66GHz $209 (single core)

At 667MHz FSB low voltage we have:

X48 at 1.66GHz $315 (dual core)
X38 at 1.5GHz $285 (dual core)

At 533MHz FSB ultra low voltage we have:

1.2GHz $260 (single core)
1.06GHz $240 (single core)


So which of those fits in a $499 Mac Mini? or for that matter a $999 (or less) iBook.

G4 processors are much, much cheaper than Intel. For instance OWC sell a Dual 1.6Ghz 7447 upgrade including sinks and fans for &#163;249.

They will fit in the 699 mini ;) .......do it :D

Why a G4 is cheaper is because it is outdated comparing

[SiliconAddict]

I'm sure that you're right.

If Yonah shows up in a Powerbook, most professionals will say "No thanks - I'll stick with my G4 until Rev B - unless Adobe waits until Rev c for the Photoshop port to MacIntel".

I'm sure that the first MacIntel will see an incredible spike in demand when it's introduced - but that spike won't be sustained by the professional crowd. Only the tech-geeks will want a MacIntel before the apps are ready.

And "ready" means "debugged, tested and optimized for SSE". Not merely "xxx is fat binary now".

Whatever. Most of that is handed through XCode for a good majority of apps out there. Why do you think Apple has been pushing the move to XCode for this transition.

As for the hardware itself. Considering the current state of PowerBooks if benchmarks show that native PPC apps run as fast on a dual core Yonah as on the latest G4 PowerBooks you might see more pros moving. I'm not claiming that its 100% certain but the simple fact is current Pentium M laptops kick the PowerBook around the block and that is without having a second core onboard, a faster FSB, possibly SATA drive, PCI-E graphics, etc. There is a possibility, albeit slim, that even in emulation it could be as fast as a G4 1.67Ghz PowerBook. I can't wait to see XBench marks being run in emulation on final PowerBook hardware.

[MikeAtari]

IDEs are for wimps. vim baaaaby!! :p

Interesting...
How do you step thru your code in VIM?

[MikeAtari]

Huh? Carbon code is just as easy to compile for x86 as Cocoa code. Just hit the magic button and it's done. Now Adobe does have some challenges - likely porting from CodeWarrior to XCode (2 developers for 2 weeks tops), porting all of the custom altivec code (probably not too hard because they already have the intel optimized code for the Windows builds).

This is - for some reason - a fallacy that I've heard over and over about the x86 transition. Carbon code will recompile and run on x86. New apps can be written for x86 using the Carbon APIs.

Matthew


It's a question of Management Style...
If they've started the CS3 development, as previously stated, will they put that on hold for the 2-4 weeks you think is necessary, and do this special build. Or, do they wait till CS3 is finished, and then switch...

Big, slow companies tend to finish what they've started and put future requirements in the future.

[SiliconAddict]

YES! This would be grand. More modular technology, please. I would buy computers just as regularly with that as an option, replacing my CPU halfway between purchases.

Steve...oh Steve...should you hear our wishes, please make them come true.

No chance in hell. The chips are going to be soldered in and prob have the BIOS check to makes sure its running X CPU. When something as simple as that can lead to a new PowerBook sale.

[gnasher729]

I'd expect that Steve's pitch will be something along the lines of "Coming This Spring", which means that they can be delivered "on time" anytime up to the day before the summer solstice (June 20th, 2006).
-hh

When Apple announces Intel based hardware with a firm date, that is when people will stop buying PowerPC hardware. I expect Steve to come up one day saying "Intel based hardware is shipping _now_".

[gnasher729]

What's the point of releasing Intel machines this early?

As far as I can tell, the dev release of Tiger only has iTunes as a universal binary. Everything else is emulated through Rosetta! Please correct me if I'm wrong!

You are wrong.

The first dev release had everything _except_ iTunes as a universal binary. The latest dev release had _only_ iTunes changed from PowerPC only to universal binary, which means that now _all_ Apple applications run native on Intel machines.

[gnasher729]

Nah. Intel would hate winning over a whole new customer base from competitors like IBM and Motorola and having them switch to their own architecture. I'm sure there's no hurry on Intels part to win over the "hearts and minds" of the Mac community.
:rolleyes:

One statistics that I would like to see: Percentage of Intel engineers using a computer with Intel processor at home before Intel Macs, and percentage of Intel engineers using a computer with Intel processor at home after Intel Macs.

[aegisdesign]

Why a G4 is cheaper is because it is outdated comparing


Nope. It's cheaper because it has a fraction of the transistors and is made using a cheaper process than the Intel CPU.

I know it's the Intel-fanboy way now on MacRumors to describe the Yonah architecture as the next generation but such revisionism is ridiculous. The Pentium-M is a revised P6 core dating from before even the G4. Tacking on a 2MB cache and a fast front side bus doesn't change the fact it's still a dinosaur in comparison to the PowerPC architecture.

It's just a pity the implementations of each architecture haven't kept up with the marketting hype.

[HiRez]

When we don't see Intel Powerbooks until 2007I'm going to guess the Intel PowerBooks (and probably Intel PowerMacs) will debut at WWDC in June 2006. Most of the people going to that conference use PowerBooks, it's kind of a natural place. MacWorld 2006 seems too early (with new iBooks and other stuff announced there, I don't think they'd want to dilute the message by introducing too many new CPU designs), and MacWorld 2007 definitely seems too late. WWDC is probably a date they can hold people off for, while giving them enough time to refine an entirely new design with the greater engineering demands of a PowerBook enclosure and higher-performance processing.

[maya]

I'm going to guess the Intel PowerBooks (and probably Intel PowerMacs) will debut at WWDC in June 2006. Most of the people going to that conference use PowerBooks, it's kind of a natural place. MacWorld 2006 seems too early (with new iBooks and other stuff announced there, I don't think they'd want to dilute the message by introducing too many new CPU designs), and MacWorld 2007 definitely seems too late. WWDC is probably a date they can hold people off for, while giving them enough time to refine an entirely new design with the greater engineering demands of a PowerBook enclosure and higher-performance processing.

You can only do so much with a Laptop design case as you have to design with the screen in mind. Until the screen gets flexible then you might have more options. ;) :)

[HiRez]

Apple will need to step up and keep pace with the rest of the Intel world now - marginal upgrades every few months is not going to cut it. If PC users have the latest and greatest technology in their PCs, the Mac community isn't going to find it acceptable to have to wait for months to realize the same benefits. It will be interesting to see how Apple handles this and adjusts.I agree but in many ways Apple has a much better natural chance to "keep pace" now because in the past many of the holdups have been caused by chip/part availability problems (500 MHz G4, 3 GHz G5, portable G5, etc.). That will no longer be a problem measured vs. other Intel-inside products. If they use stock Intel motherboards, so much the better (although I have my doubts on whether they will).

[Sunrunner]

You can only do so much with a Laptop design case as you have to design with the screen in mind. Until the screen gets flexible then you might have more options. ;) :)

Either that or projectable... a laptop screen that "floats" above the laptop. Now THAT would be awsome.

[-hh]

IF indeed Apple wants OSX to only exist in Apple-branded hardware (at this point anyway), then the easiest would be to build a custom memory controller and code OSX to require its presence. Hardware lock, that is. Therefore... I think that Apple builds custom motherboards as long as they want to keep OSX for themselves.


And what goes along with this is the "Release into the Wild" of an officially supported Intel- OS X 10.4.x revision that cannot be successfully hacked/cracked to run on non-Apple hardware.

I've not been following that challenge too particularly closely, but it was my impression that the score was something like "Hackers 2, Apple 0" as of ~3 weeks ago: Here's a news article (http://www.osx86project.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=67&Itemid=2) reporting that Intel-10.4.3 was cracked in a fashion similar to crack of Intel-10.4.1

YMMV on how robust the hardware lock will need to be in order for Steve to be willing to let the MacTel's be sold on the street. But at present, the door to the OS barn seems to be slapping very loudly in the breeze, which suggests later rather than sooner.


-hh

[aegisdesign]

Yonah might be out on the 6th, but VIIV is apparently being launched on the 9th - http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2005/12/12/intel_viiv_yonah_launches/

Volume production in February.

[Sunrunner]

Yonah might be out on the 6th, but VIIV is apparently being launched on the 9th - http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2005/12/12/intel_viiv_yonah_launches/

Volume production in February.


Strangely coincidental dates hmmm????? :p I smell MacWorld announcements...

[Sunrunner]

IDEs are for wimps. vim baaaaby!! :p


Implantable Shuffles... now THAT would be the bomb... first step towards the world of Johnny Nemonic :D

[bshort]

Implantable Shuffles... now THAT would be the bomb... first step towards the world of Johnny Nemonic :D

Mnemonic.

[mdavey]

Either that or projectable... a laptop screen that "floats" above the laptop. Now THAT would be awsome.

Very :D. And would make a certain amount of sense, too: Some kind of focusing system that could project onto a screen like you describe for individual work, or project a onto a nearby wall for group presentations. There are probably a fair proportion of laptops that are frequently hooked up to a projector for group presentations.

Projectors still cost several hundred pounds, though - I think we are a few years away from this being a viable design choice.

[Peace]

In a few years the standard screen will be holographic.;)

[iEdd]

In a few years the standard screen will be holographic.;)
"Argghh vertical lines on my screen". "No, dude, the vent's just clogged, stick your finger in there and fix it. "Ok." *zap*. *fry* :D

[icrew]

Has anyone thought that maybe, just maybe, Adobe and some/all of the other key players in the real value of a new Intel mac already have their programs ported and optimized? I'm sure Adobe has their hands on a few Dev kits.

Even if they do, there will still be a bit of a delay before it's released, as Adobe will want to do one final QA pass on the actual shipping hardware. (Also don't forget how slow they were about things like an OSX-native photoshop...)

[SiliconAddict]

Either that or projectable... a laptop screen that "floats" above the laptop. Now THAT would be awsome.

and not possible (Now), and would be open to other's seeing your work, and would be a massive battery drain. Such a thing may someday be common in home computers. Forget it for mobile ones. Well maybe if they ever get the whole cold fusion thing down. Maybe neutron generators. :P

Personally I'd be happy with a rollup screen that becomes ridged when a light electrical charge is run through it.

[iHavenolife]

Doesn't matter just as long as there is a smooth transition and Power PC users are not left in the dust.

[~Shard~]

I'm going to guess the Intel PowerBooks (and probably Intel PowerMacs) will debut at WWDC in June 2006.

PowerBooks, possibly, PowerMacs, definitely not. Apple is waiting for Conroe/Woodcrest for the PowerMacs, and as a result, we will not be seeing any Intel-based PowerMacs until 2007. They will be the last Mac to transition. :cool:

[ScubaDuc]

...and yet still run Windows on it. Oh the irony... :eek:

Yes, the irony is that I have to keep a window machine just so I can program my Aladin Air dive computer....and yes, another irony: my network brother printer/scanner only scans via ethernet with Windows, but only via USB on the Mac :rolleyes:

[PtMD]

IDEs are for wimps. vim baaaaby!! :p

Im right there with you. And while I am at it I would just like to say, "screw emacs and its kitchen sink!" :D

PtMD

[strange days]

You might see this anyway. I could see Apple biting into some of the marketshare held by Alienware and companies like that. Contrary to popular belief, there are a lot of windows users that would pay for good engineering and style. Now don't get me wrong, Apple is not targetting Alienware (nor should they!), nonetheless, a side effect of this transition is that people will by Apple machines and install XP on them. And many of those people are the same people who wouldn't be caught dead with a Dell or HP.


i could be very well be one of them; if i can't run my windows only apps on a reasonably fast XP emulator, i don't care much about OSX.

...and before you go BOOOOO, just consider i've been a loyal apple customer since 1992, but i just need to run a few apps that are currently windows only.

On the other end, i strongly believe the computer market is gone from elite/geek to general population in terms of prices, and people obviously prefer to have a beautiful object instead of an abomination whether it be an mp3 player, a desktop, a laptop, a DVR...

[strange days]

I'm going to guess the Intel PowerBooks (and probably Intel PowerMacs) will debut at WWDC in June 2006. Most of the people going to that conference use PowerBooks, it's kind of a natural place. MacWorld 2006 seems too early (with new iBooks and other stuff announced there, I don't think they'd want to dilute the message by introducing too many new CPU designs), and MacWorld 2007 definitely seems too late. WWDC is probably a date they can hold people off for, while giving them enough time to refine an entirely new design with the greater engineering demands of a PowerBook enclosure and higher-performance processing.


you're forgetting the Paris expo in september, Steve unveiled new products there before; i guess it mostly depends on the merom / conroe roadmap as well as software optimisation though...

[AidenShaw]

Yes, the irony is that I have to keep a window machine just so I can program my Aladin Air dive computer...
Luxury - I remember when I used to keep a dual-boot Windows95 system on my laptop so that I could boot into DOS to run Datatrak in real mode on the serial port...

I was so happy when they finally released a version that would run in 32-bit protected mode!

[maya]

Either that or projectable... a laptop screen that "floats" above the laptop. Now THAT would be awsome.

For one it will have a very limited life before you have to change the bulbs on it, resolution will be terrible, power consumption would go through the roof, a lot of eye strain in the process of reading text.

Good luck with a projector or holographic screen. Those are great for alarm clocks, something that is a monochrome colour. Anything else will give you a headache after only a few minutes of use. ;) :)

[Mechcozmo]

Implantable Shuffles... now THAT would be the bomb... first step towards the world of Johnny Nemonic :D

Linkety! (http://www.bbspot.com/News/2005/01/new_ipod_implant.html)

Better than a Shuffle.

[Indo]

Why the heck would Intel launch a hotly anticipated chip in India? I can see a lot of venues that would make sense, but India does not make my short list. Can someone tell me what I'm missing?

definitely not going to be exclusively india, but they were mentioned probably because some of the minds in the huge R&D center they have in bangalore most likely had some part in making this chip. intel is planning to invest $1 billion in india though. Link (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4499362.stm)

why would video programs run any slower on MacTels? if all apple apps are Intel ready then they should be running just fine?

[Daveway]

Why all the talk about Adobe not releasing Intel versions until 2007? Chizen stood on stage at WWDC and said Adobe would be first in line with a new suite of application just like with the OS X transition.

Although, Chizen did sound like he was kinda drunk if you go back and listen to the webcast.:rolleyes:

[ffakr]

Huh? Carbon code is just as easy to compile for x86 as Cocoa code. Just hit the magic button and it's done. Now Adobe does have some challenges - likely porting from CodeWarrior to XCode (2 developers for 2 weeks tops), porting all of the custom altivec code (probably not too hard because they already have the intel optimized code for the Windows builds).

This is - for some reason - a fallacy that I've heard over and over about the x86 transition. Carbon code will recompile and run on x86. New apps can be written for x86 using the Carbon APIs.

Matthew

Matthew, you either have no idea what you are talking about or you know much more than I do. Granted, I'm not much of a developer but it was Apple that told me at WWDC that Carbon libraries won't be supported in Universial Binaries. This was part of the reason why Apple is making people move away from Codewarrior, because you have to write in pure Cocoa and for some reason I didn't catch XCode was more applicable.
This is what Apple says about Codewarrior..
"Move your application from CodeWarrior to Xcode and be ready for Intel-based Macs."

I'm trying to find some information at Apple's dev site but it's pretty vague. Carbon is mentioned in the transition documents as if it were a valid set of libraries for Univeral apps so perhaps you are correct (maybe something changed since wwdc). However, at least one Apple doc says that to compile Universal binaries, you need to be in a certain group.. those that have cocoa, carbon, java.. apps that compile already and it goes to list another group with Win32 apps that compile already so that document isn't saying that Carbon is supported natively but rather that you can port from Carbon (and Win32) to make universal binaries.

Honestly, I'm not sure. I do remember, clearly, Apple saying that Carbon would not be a supported API anymore while I was at WWDC. ((I'm much more of a sys-admin than a developer so I don't have very good first hand knowledge on these matters))

ffakr.

[GregA]

Honestly, I'm not sure. I do remember, clearly, Apple saying that Carbon would not be a supported API anymore while I was at WWDC. ((I'm much more of a sys-admin than a developer so I don't have very good first hand knowledge on these matters))Apple said that Classic would no longer be supported. Carbon is.

Check out this developer document - it says a universal binary can be made in cocoa, carbon, java....
http://developer.apple.com/documentation/MacOSX/Conceptual/universal_binary/index.html

[digitalbiker]

Why all the talk about Adobe not releasing Intel versions until 2007? Chizen stood on stage at WWDC and said Adobe would be first in line with a new suite of application just like with the OS X transition.



Adobe came out several months ago and announced that they would not be releasing an OS X x86 native version of the creative suite until late 2006 or early 2007. Adobe's CEO who made the announcement claimed that the transition would be much more difficult than SJ let on up on the stage and that Adobe would have to do extensive testing, debuging, etc which would not allow the new x86 version to make it into the next product release cycle.

Obviously you were sleeping during the last couple of Apple OS transitions. This is nothing new. First SJ comes on explaining how it will work. Then Apple releases a partially implemented solution (in this case new hardware) Next developers either get their updated product to the Apple platform or they drop Apple software development altogether. Finally Apple releases their own version of any necessary software to fill the gaps where developers desert. Hopefully we won't lose too many developers this time around.

We are already going to lose all of the legacy classic applications, thats a given. Oh well who needs education software anymore anyway. Apple already lost that battle too.:mad:

[Platform]

Nope. It's cheaper because it has a fraction of the transistors and is made using a cheaper process than the Intel CPU.

I know it's the Intel-fanboy way now on MacRumors to describe the Yonah architecture as the next generation but such revisionism is ridiculous. The Pentium-M is a revised P6 core dating from before even the G4. Tacking on a 2MB cache and a fast front side bus doesn't change the fact it's still a dinosaur in comparison to the PowerPC architecture.

It's just a pity the implementations of each architecture haven't kept up with the marketting hype.

I am no Intel fanboy...but whatever...

I said outdated becasue it is not new, so no matter how good it is fesh bread alwas sells better than yesterdays ;)

[HiRez]

Matthew, you either have no idea what you are talking about or you know much more than I do. Granted, I'm not much of a developer but it was Apple that told me at WWDC that Carbon libraries won't be supported in Universial Binaries.I don't know for sure, but I think it has more to do with CodeWarrior being phased out and not supporting compilation for Intel. I can't imagine Apple is demanding everyone rewrite their apps in Cocoa, no way in hell Adobe or Microsoft will be doing that anytime soon. I have to believe Carbon will be supported for universal binaries, especially since Cocoa uses the Carbon frameworks extensively under the hood.

[Bye Bye Baby]

I currently use my powerbook G4 connected to my 23 inch apple monitor. While the set up is fantastic, I am really in the market for a desktop so that my laptop can go back to being a laptop. If it has a dual core yonah, bluray dvd recorder and hard disk- I am going to buy. Anything under a 1000 euros and I am in.

Unrealistic???:confused:

[minimax]

I currently use my powerbook G4 connected to my 23 inch apple monitor. While the set up is fantastic, I am really in the market for a desktop so that my laptop can go back to being a laptop. If it has a dual core yonah, bluray dvd recorder and hard disk- I am going to buy. Anything under a 1000 euros and I am in.

Unrealistic???:confused:

For 2006 I think it is, but if you have the patience to wait untill 2007...

[anthonymoody]

The Yonah release has been confirmed for January - it's in press releases being picked up all over the place...

TM

[AidenShaw]

The Yonah release has been confirmed for January - it's in press releases being picked up all over the place...
It's going to be an interesting keynote....

[~Shard~]

It's going to be an interesting keynote....

Indeed. This is going to be another one of those great situations where, potentially, Jobs is going to have too much to announce, and it will be interesting to see what actually gets announced during the Keynote. Intel iBooks, Intel Mac minis, Intel PowerBooks, iLife 06, iWork 06, new displays, iPod stuff, some insight into Leopard... what will it be? :cool:

[Randall]

Matthew, you either have no idea what you are talking about or you know much more than I do. Granted, I'm not much of a developer but it was Apple that told me at WWDC that Carbon libraries won't be supported in Universial Binaries. This was part of the reason why Apple is making people move away from Codewarrior, because you have to write in pure Cocoa and for some reason I didn't catch XCode was more applicable.
This is what Apple says about Codewarrior..
"Move your application from CodeWarrior to Xcode and be ready for Intel-based Macs."

I'm trying to find some information at Apple's dev site but it's pretty vague. Carbon is mentioned in the transition documents as if it were a valid set of libraries for Univeral apps so perhaps you are correct (maybe something changed since wwdc). However, at least one Apple doc says that to compile Universal binaries, you need to be in a certain group.. those that have cocoa, carbon, java.. apps that compile already and it goes to list another group with Win32 apps that compile already so that document isn't saying that Carbon is supported natively but rather that you can port from Carbon (and Win32) to make universal binaries.

Honestly, I'm not sure. I do remember, clearly, Apple saying that Carbon would not be a supported API anymore while I was at WWDC. ((I'm much more of a sys-admin than a developer so I don't have very good first hand knowledge on these matters))

ffakr.
CodeWarrior will die after the switch to x86, along with any applications that continue to use it and refuse to switch to Xcode. Xcode is making everyones life easier, not harder. I hope that we don't lose any applications in the transfer, and that they all switch to x86 platform successfully. I know that the Classic applications will be gone forever. Running an OS 9 emulator on top of Rosetta is just silly.

[AidenShaw]

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/business/technology/13405513.htm

"Posted on Wed, Dec. 14, 2005

Will Intel's Napa chip run Apple laptop?
By Dean Takahashi
Mercury News

Intel announced Tuesday that its new line of chips will be built into more than 230 new laptop computers coming in 2006, making them much better at running music, movies and other digital media.

But it wouldn't say a word about whether that includes the laptop creating the most buzz, expected from its new marquee customer, Apple Computer."

[Lacero]

It's going to be an interesting keynote....
Perhaps the most exciting. Keynote. Ever. I can't recall another past MWSF event that's causing this much buzz, except maybe the premature leakage of the PM G5 specifications.

A pressing question would be, will Mac Rumors be able to withstand the huge traffic this upcoming MWSF?

But the most pressing question of all is, will AidenShaw be celebrating the holidays? 36863 :p :D

[generik]

CodeWarrior will die after the switch to x86, along with any applications that continue to use it and refuse to switch to Xcode. Xcode is making everyones life easier, not harder. I hope that we don't lose any applications in the transfer, and that they all switch to x86 platform successfully. I know that the Classic applications will be gone forever. Running an OS 9 emulator on top of Rosetta is just silly.

Is Codewarrior created by Apple too?

I have this impression that there isn't a real transition path from codewarrior to xcode.

[AidenShaw]

But the most pressing question of all is, will AidenShaw be celebrating the holidays? 36863 :p :D
Very funny - may I please use your artwork as my avatar for the season?

[Lacero]

Go right ahead. The more the merrier! :)

[Randall]

Is Codewarrior created by Apple too?

I have this impression that there isn't a real transition path from codewarrior to xcode.

No CodeWarrior is created by Metrowerks. But it's not being pulled over to x86, nor will it ever be.