13.3-inch iBook?

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Think Secret claims (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0512briefly.html) the Intel-based iBook due in January will be a 13.3", 1280x720 WXGA widescreen notebook to replace the current PowerPC based 14" model.

TS also claims that while the 12" configuration of iBook will remain, the 12" Power Book will be discontinued in the coming months.

[Sky Blue]

hmmm, no more 12 " PB? I dont think a 13.3 screen would be big enough personally.

[Little Endian]

I can't wait. Would be my first Intel Mac Purchase.

[mad jew]

Well, I'm grabbing an Intel iBook irrespective. I've become quite attached to the 12 inch screen configuration, but I reckon I might be able to get used to 13.3 inches.


I dont think a 13.3 screen would be big enough personally.


But it's bigger than 12 inches, which is already quite a popular iBook size. :)

[shadowmoses]

Sounds credible and apple really need to release a widescreen budget notebook if they are to compete with dell in terms of price and value for money etc.....

Shadow

[JFreak]

13.3", 1280x720 WXGA widescreen

that would be "just right" :) HD-projectors, anyone?

[1macker1]

i'll get one if it has a DVI connecton.

[dambro1978]

This time ThinkSecret doesn't say "highly reliable sources"...means anything?!?
I don't know what is the accuracy and what are the sources of TS.
At the same time whatever will be the new laptop I'll buy one, my iBook G3 600 mhz is getting tired, and I would be so happy with a bigger screen and a new form factor. 2000 euro are too much for a 15" powerbook.
If it would be possible I would install OSX on one of those wonderful new sony vaios... (hope it is true that apple recruited sony vaio engineers to design the new laptop as it was rumored...)

Happy Christmas and enjoy the Advent. (of the new product obviously)

Dambro, Trieste, Italy

[MacSA]

The 12" iBook will remain? In it's current form, or with a new intel chip? That 13.1" model wont be cheap lol

[MacSA]

Sounds credible and apple really need to release a widescreen budget notebook if they are to compete with dell in terms of price and value for money etc.....

Shadow

But if it replaces the 14" it could hardly be called a budget notebook. The 14" iBook is £900.

I bet they have millions of 12" iBooks still around and will seel them until they run out of stock.

[mad jew]

But if it replaces the 14" it could hardly be called a budget notebook. The 14" iBook is £900


True, but this is Apple, remember. :p

[bentley]

discontinuing the 12" PowerBook?! weak

unless it's replaced with a widescreen with the same amount of portability.

[mrzippy]

Well I have been interested in getting a notebook for a while now, but with PC notebooks selling for £300 in the UK I am not prepared to pay £700 for Apples current cheapest option, especially with only a 12" screen.

Now if you introduce a 13" widescreen iBook in the £400-£500 range then I might just part with the cash!

[yoak]

Exciting times ahead.
I´m really curious about the price point now. Up or down?
Gotta go down no?

[bousozoku]

Well, I'm grabbing an Intel iBook irrespective. I've become quite attached to the 12 inch screen configuration, but I reckon I might be able to get used to 13.3 inches.





But it's bigger than 12 inches, which is already quite a popular iBook size. :)

Widescreen would be bigger and smaller, at the same time.

13.3 inches widescreen is pretty amazing because it gives a small computer plus a nice resolution and most people can actually use it. Contrast that to the 10.1 ultra portables where you can't read the display. It wasn't a problem way back when the display was 832x624, right? Some how 1280x1024 seems a whole lot more difficult to read on a small display. 13.3 inch widescreen displays should be almost perfect.

[yoak]

Well I have been interested in getting a notebook for a while now, but with PC notebooks selling for £300 in the UK I am not prepared to pay £700 for Apples current cheapest option, especially with only a 12" screen.
Now if you introduce a 13" widescreen iBook in the £400-£500 range then I might just part with the cash!

I don´t think there will be any danger of you parting with any cash then;)

[Chundles]

I'd have to say it's a bit silly to be putting a screen with only 720 horizontal res. That's less then the current 12". It would be prefect at 1280x768 or even 1280x800. That way it can still show 720p video but for day to day use you get a lot more info on the screen and it fits nicely in with the new higher res PowerBooks - this would also become the new little PB would it not?

[VicMacs]

and what will take the 12 inch pb's place?

[InfiniteLoop1]

great, but it had better have firewire!
13.3" widescreen is a really good size for portability and functionality!

[liketom]

arrrr about time the rumors really started off


wooo hooo

(liketom gets credit card warmed up ....again)

[Chundles]

and what will take the 12 inch pb's place?
Um, the 13" widescreen model we're all talking about here. They'll use it for both the iBook and Powerbook.

[BlizzardBomb]

That resolution sounds great to me. I suppose that means the 12-inch would stay 1024x768 then.

All we really need to know now is what kind of graphics card is going in and the processor really.

[ezekielrage_99]

13.3" iBook.... well this is the first iBook rumor that sounds kind of plausable.

Just think that Sony has a Laptop very similar in size to this specific spec ( http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_BrowseCatalog-Start;sid=fbWANpMRbLeAH9CMJzuKPdwA0rGY0opZeFQ=?CategoryName=cpu_VAIONotebookComputers_SSeries&Dept=computers ) and didn't Apple aquire some of the Sony Vaio Engineers to help out on the Intel switch for the iBook and PowerBook?

And if it is true I think we will see an Intel Pentium M 740, 512MB RAM DDR2, a DVD Burner and either a Ati X300 or Intel Graphics Media Accelerator 900. Either way if it has and Intel Inside I'm buying it.

From the sounds of this and TS's reputation when it comes to new rumors I think we will probably see this product in january.

[ebunton]

Great!

Apple should drop the 12 incher now, since the difference in size is neglible... and it's widescreen!

It'll be so sexy... I can picture it now.

[zap2]

i think the 12'' PB has its place and should stay, i like the small screen becuz when im using my laptop i'll be on the move and 12'' is easy to move with.

[mad jew]

I hope it'll still be white. I'd hate it to not match my iMac.

[liketom]

i think the 12'' PB has its place and should stay, i like the small screen becuz when im using my laptop i'll be on the move and 12'' is easy to move with.
the 12" power will be gone by the summer :( get it while you can

when the 13.3" hits people will forget all about the 12" :rolleyes:

[abhi_beckert]

I'd have to say it's a bit silly to be putting a screen with only 720 horizontal res. That's less then the current 12". It would be prefect at 1280x768 or even 1280x800. That way it can still show 720p video but for day to day use you get a lot more info on the screen and it fits nicely in with the new higher res PowerBooks - this would also become the new little PB would it not?

I challenge you to name one program that requires more than a 600px high screen (let alone 720px), aperture and final cut pro don't count. Now name a program that would work better with more than 1024px wide. Didn't take you long did it? I have a 12" iBook and I assure you, the screen is taller than it needs to be and not wide enough.

[hob]

Just think that Sony has a Laptop very similar in size to this specific spec ( http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_BrowseCatalog-Start;sid=fbWANpMRbLeAH9CMJzuKPdwA0rGY0opZeFQ=?CategoryName=cpu_VAIONotebookComputers_SSeries&Dept=computers ) and didn't Apple aquire some of the Sony Vaio Engineers to help out on the Intel switch for the iBook and PowerBook?
Yeesh! Having just clicked on the link I remember why I use an Apple!

"IBM's were made by beer drinkers, Apple's were made by pot smokers"

Everything's just so cluttered and complicated on that site...!

[NewbieNerd]

I'm the most interested in simply how the form of the iBook will change. Regardless of internals and the OS, I truly think it will be harder design a cuter little laptop. I just hope the don't get rid of the light-up apple behind the screen!! :(

[eXan]

I'd have to say it's a bit silly to be putting a screen with only 720 horizontal res. That's less then the current 12". It would be prefect at 1280x768 or even 1280x800. That way it can still show 720p video but for day to day use you get a lot more info on the screen and it fits nicely in with the new higher res PowerBooks - this would also become the new little PB would it not?

I use 1440x900 resolution on my iMac, up from 1280x960 on eMac. Though it has 60 less pixel Y, it has 160 pix more on X axis. And I prefer 160pix more wider and 60 pix less higher display over those 1280x960 on eMac. Same with iBook: only 48 less Y with 128 more on EACH side!

[Chundles]

I challenge you to name one program that requires more than a 600px high screen (let alone 720px), aperture and final cut pro don't count. Now name a program that would work better with more than 1024px wide. Didn't take you long did it? I have a 12" iBook and I assure you, the screen is taller than it needs to be and not wide enough.

Woah!

Somebody's a bit stirred up!!

I'd like more depth in Safari, Word, Preview, all my other web browsers, Text Edit, basically anything that displays text or pages.

I'd like more overall resolution for iPhoto, iTunes, Excel, Mail and Dashboard.

So tell me why more pixels = bad?

Actually, I'd like more pixels overall for Safari so I can display web pages at 1024 and still have room for Messenger and iChat.

[DCBass]

I use 1440x900 resolution on my iMac, up from 1280x960 on eMac. Though it has 60 less pixel Y, it has 160 pix more on X axis. And I prefer 160pix more wider and 60 pix less higher display over those 1280x960 on eMac. Same with iBook: only 48 less Y with 128 more on EACH side!

Indeed. I have a rev a 12"pb and 48 pixels would not be much to lose on the bottom. But a gain of 128 on the right would be so helpful! The toolbar in word and excel, the inspector in pages and keynote, iTunes, iPhoto, Garageband, photoshop, dreamweaver, fireworks..., i could go on and on.

[terrorbite]

Well I have been interested in getting a notebook for a while now, but with PC notebooks selling for £300 in the UK I am not prepared to pay £700 for Apples current cheapest option, especially with only a 12" screen.

Now if you introduce a 13" widescreen iBook in the £400-£500 range then I might just part with the cash!

Tell me where I can get one of these £300 notebooks!

[CmdrLaForge]

I think that's great. For me the perfect size!

[Chundles]

Indeed. I have a rev a 12"pb and 48 pixels would not be much to lose on the bottom. But a gain of 128 on the right would be so helpful! The toolbar in word and excel, the inspector in pages and keynote, iTunes, iPhoto, Garageband, photoshop, dreamweaver, fireworks..., i could go on and on.

Why should we have to lose pixels? Why can't it gain the 128 on the width but keep the 48 on the height? Or even gain 22?

I don't understand everybody thinking that losing pixels would be acceptable. CMon, we need to go forwards not backwards.

[liketom]

Tell me where I can get one of these £300 notebooks!
£349

http://www.pcworld.co.uk/martprd/product/seo/118874

rubbish mind:D

[mad jew]

Isn't it being speculated that the 13.3 inch screen will replace the 14 inch one, implying that the 12 inch iBook will stick around so we get a choice of either resolution. :)

I can see the positives and negatives of both ratios. For me, I'd prefer the widescreen option, especially if it's the only one with a Superdrive. :p

[DevilDog]

I bet it would look pretty slick. Could anybody photoshop one up out of a 12 incher?

[j_maddison]

Well I have been interested in getting a notebook for a while now, but with PC notebooks selling for £300 in the UK I am not prepared to pay £700 for Apples current cheapest option, especially with only a 12" screen.

Now if you introduce a 13" widescreen iBook in the £400-£500 range then I might just part with the cash!

A friends mum has a cheap laptop, she bought it a few months ago. It as no useful applications, 256mb of ram, and gives a measily hour to hour and fifteen minutes worth of battery life. I told her to get an ibook, but she wouldn't listen, told me she didnt care about battery life nad apps etc. Now she doesn't bother using the laptop. Mind you thats got alot to do with the fact she wouldn't listen about dial up either. She now thinks that using the internet means that by the time you find what your looking for your battery dies before you can view or purchase! She's moving home over the next few weeks, and I think she's going to get broadband then. Which then means she will be wondering why she cant use wifi on her cheap laptop!

Buy cheap buy twice. A good alternative is to buy second hand if you cant afford an ibook or a powerbook. Thats what I did when i bought my first laptop, it lasted me a couple of years and was an excellent buy.

Jason

[starnox]

I challenge you to name one program that requires more than a 600px high screen (let alone 720px), aperture and final cut pro don't count. Now name a program that would work better with more than 1024px wide. Didn't take you long did it? I have a 12" iBook and I assure you, the screen is taller than it needs to be and not wide enough.

Apart from the fact that I have my dock going up the side, and even thats gets full all the way up on my 20" iMac. Apart from that I would agree.

[Chaszmyr]

I hope they improve the form factor, I think the current iBook looks pretty cheap compared to the AluBooks. Either way, my laptop is long overdue for replacement, I can't wait.

[Chaszmyr]

i think the 12'' PB has its place and should stay, i like the small screen becuz when im using my laptop i'll be on the move and 12'' is easy to move with.

But what would Apple do to make the 12'' PowerBook better than the 13'' iBook? Maybe slightly faster processor, backlit keyboard, I guess... But I don't think that would make people choose it over the 13'' iBook. Maybe if Apple replaced the 12'' PowerBook with a 13'' PowerBook, but none of the rumor sites have reported that.

[Super Dave]

<snip>

Happy Christmas and enjoy the Advent. (of the new product obviously)

Dambro, Trieste, Italy

Best Advent joke of the year.

I'll miss my 12" PowerBook. Oh no wait, I won't. I can't afford a new i(ntel)Book, and will be keeping my 12" Power(PC)Book for a while yet.

David:cool:

[liketom]

But what would Apple do to make the 12'' PowerBook better than the 13'' iBook? Maybe slightly faster processor, backlit keyboard, I guess... But I don't think that would make people choose it over the 13'' iBook. Maybe if Apple replaced the 12'' PowerBook with a 13'' PowerBook, but none of the rumor sites have reported that.


13" widescreen iBook - £699
15" Powerbook £1099
17" Powerbook £1399
20" Powerbook £1699

:eek:

[wilburpan]

I'd have to say it's a bit silly to be putting a screen with only 720 horizontal res. That's less then the current 12". It would be prefect at 1280x768 or even 1280x800. That way it can still show 720p video but for day to day use you get a lot more info on the screen and it fits nicely in with the new higher res PowerBooks - this would also become the new little PB would it not?
Maybe not. One advantage of putting a 1280x720 screen in the 13.3" widescreen iBook is that you still have the option of putting a 13.3" display with a higher pixel density in a Powerbook and use that as a means of differentiating the 13.3" Powerbook from the 13.3" iBook.

Of course, this is an advantage for Apple, not us consumers. Oh, wait -- you thought everything Apple does is for our benefit? :)

Seriously, judging for my experience playing around with one of the Sony S-series laptops recently, this will be a great form factor.

[irobot2003]

I'd have to say it's a bit silly to be putting a screen with only 720 horizontal res. That's less then the current 12". It would be prefect at 1280x768 or even 1280x800. That way it can still show 720p video but for day to day use you get a lot more info on the screen and it fits nicely in with the new higher res PowerBooks - this would also become the new little PB would it not?
I imagine they wanted a 16:9 aspect ratio to conform with HDTV. At 1280x720 you are getting 17% more pixels than 1024x768. To maintain the 768 pixel height and get the 16:9 aspect ratio they'd have to go 1365x768... probably higher cost than they wanted.

[TBi]

Widescreen would be bigger and smaller, at the same time.

13.3 inches widescreen is pretty amazing because it gives a small computer plus a nice resolution and most people can actually use it. Contrast that to the 10.1 ultra portables where you can't read the display. It wasn't a problem way back when the display was 832x624, right? Some how 1280x1024 seems a whole lot more difficult to read on a small display. 13.3 inch widescreen displays should be almost perfect.

On windows you can just change the DPI settings from 96DPI to 120DPI which makes all the text bigger and easier to read so you get the benefit of a high res screen with the easy to read text size of a lower res screen. Don't think you can do this with apple though. My work Dell 15" has a resolution of 1680*1050 which is the same as the 20" Dell 2005FPW (or apple cinema display...) which makes the text really small. One small change to the DPI settings and everything is easy to read and smoother thanks to the big font size, font smoothing and high res.

Well I have been interested in getting a notebook for a while now, but with PC notebooks selling for &#163;300 in the UK I am not prepared to pay &#163;700 for Apples current cheapest option, especially with only a 12" screen.

Now if you introduce a 13" widescreen iBook in the &#163;400-&#163;500 range then I might just part with the cash!

I hate to point it out to you but most 12" laptops come with a premium over larger versions. I think only apple make a cheaper 12" than 14". Sure you can get a Dell for dirt cheap, but it's built like crap and will be bigger and heavier than the 12" iBook. Personally i prefer portability in my laptops, which is also why people pay a premium for small ones.

Refering to the first quote the new Sony 11.1" laptop (http://www.sony.com/tx) is gorgeous. We had one in work to try out, the screen is fabulous but the keyboard a bit smaller than my liking. The battery life is as good or better than my iBook (around 5 hours normal use) and it is as light as a feather including the DVD writer. However it is more expensive to buy than a 15" powerbook and it is only 1.2GHz with Intel GMA900 graphics.

[Chundles]

Maybe not. One advantage of putting a 1280x720 screen in the 13.3" widescreen iBook is that you still have the option of putting a 13.3" display with a higher pixel density in a Powerbook and use that as a means of differentiating the 13.3" Powerbook from the 13.3" iBook.

Of course, this is an advantage for Apple, not us consumers. Oh, wait -- you thought everything Apple does is for our benefit? :)

Seriously, judging for my experience playing around with one of the Sony S-series laptops recently, this will be a great form factor.

I would think the differentiating features would be that the new 13" Powerbook would boast a faster processor, PC Card slot, DVI out with screen spanning, better video card etc.

I don't see the point of making a 16:9 display when all the others are 16:10.

[steelfist]

hope so, but improbable.i don't like the 14 inch ibook mainly because of the identical resolution to the 12 inch. want that computer to be changed. and besides, watching movies on the go will be a lot funner.

and yea, other compter companies charge more for smaller computers because it's more difficult to produce. apple, on the other hand is quite an exception

[Chaszmyr]

13" widescreen iBook - £699
15" Powerbook £1099
17" Powerbook £1399
20" Powerbook £1699

:eek:

If they're keeping the 12'' iBook, then why would you think the 13'' iBook would be £699? ThinkSecret is reporting that it will replace the 14'' iBook, so it is much more likely it will be priced along the lines of £899

[BornAgainMac]

I still want to see a iBook Mini. No CD drive and only 2 pounds with lots of battery life. Movies and TV shows can be played from the Hard drive for those that still want to watch movies on the plane.

Also I hope the screens look nice like every Windows notebook screen.

[TBi]

I still want to see a iBook Mini. No CD drive and only 2 pounds with lots of battery life. Movies and TV shows can be played from the Hard drive for those that still want to watch movies on the plane.

Also I hope the screens look nice like every Windows notebook screen.

The cd drive ain't that heavy and to get the laptop that light you'd have to put in a smaller battery which would lower battery life. I like the 12" the way it is, although a 13" which is the same height but wider would be a good alternative.

[pcmeissner]

I challenge you to name one program that requires more than a 600px high screen
:rolleyes: Any page layout program (Indesign, Quark) would benefit from more vertical space.

[liketom]

If they're keeping the 12'' iBook, then why would you think the 13'' iBook would be £699? ThinkSecret is reporting that it will replace the 14'' iBook, so it is much more likely it will be priced along the lines of £899
why have two models priced at 699 and 899 ? then the powerbooks starting at 1099 .

prices need to come down on iBook/powerbook lines to be competative with the rest of the Laptop markets

12" will go on both lines iBook and Power

[krollster]

I'd have to say it's a bit silly to be putting a screen with only 720 horizontal res. That's less then the current 12". It would be prefect at 1280x768 or even 1280x800. That way it can still show 720p video but for day to day use you get a lot more info on the screen and it fits nicely in with the new higher res PowerBooks - this would also become the new little PB would it not?

The additional space would be useful, but you'd also be making the computer bigger. It would also mean that you'd get ugly black bars on the top and bottom when watching movies etc. The new display would give you more screen real estate than a 12 inch screen so I guess you'd just have to use the sides of the screen more. By my dodgy calcs the DPI of the new screen would be higher than the 12 inch ibook, which is getting pretty small for some people.

[BlizzardBomb]

13" widescreen iBook - £699
15" Powerbook £1099
17" Powerbook £1399
20" Powerbook £1699

:eek:

It'll be more like 12" - £699 and 13.3" - £899. As for PBs, there is no market for 20" as far as I'm aware. It would be too clumsy to carry around. Just get a 20" iMac.

EDIT: Just saw your other post. And this http://vaio.sony-europe.com/view/ShowProduct.action?product=VGN-S5XP&site=ite_en_GB&category=VN+S+Series and http://vaio.sony-europe.com/view/ShowProduct.action?product=VGN-S5M&site=ite_en_GB&category=VN+S+Series is quite comparable to probably the next gen of PBs and look at the price.

[Stella]

Hope this is true.

The size of the 12" iBook is really nice but the 14" is way to big for it to retain only 1024x768. Soo, a 13" with different resolution would be very nice.

I doubt the price would change much, and I doubt Apple would increase the price much, if it all. Apple need a low cost laptop to compete on price.

[alexstein]

This sounds all to good to be true (regarding the iBook line) but 0I don't like the fact that the 12"PB will dropped. Oh well if it will be replaced with a 13" widescreen and it's nice an sleek I wouldn't mind to much.

[NewbieNerd]

It'll be more like 12" - £699 and 13.3" - £899. As for PBs, there is no market for 20" as far as I'm aware. It would be too clumsy to carry around. Just get a 20" iMac.

Do any companies make laptops larger than 17''? I feel like the 17'' pbook is near the limit of what consumers are interested in. I personally hope to get one of the Rev As but can't really decide if I want that 17 incher or not. I feel like I might be embarrassed to use such a large laptop in public. :cool:

[Dagless]

I can see the 12" PowerBook going sadly :( it was a great machine but if these new Intel iBooks are powerful enough then they simply wont be needed.

I'm not too fussed though. I would love a 15" PowerBook as my next mac :D

[AidenShaw]

It would also mean that you'd get ugly black bars on the top and bottom when watching movies etc.
This rumoured MacIntelBook has a 1280x720 screen, which is an aspect ratio of 1.78.

A typical DVD movie is 1.85 to 2.35 aspect ratio, which will give "ugly black bars" of 15 to 87 pixels both on the top and bottom of the screen.

Please get over the myth that "wide screen" means no letterboxing for DVD movies....

[ezekielrage_99]

12" and 13.3" is a very nice size for the portability aspect of having a Laptop. I like my 12" iBook, it is getting long in the tooth but it's great for being on the go alll the time.... small and light is how I like my Laptops.

[ethernet76]

I challenge you to name one program that requires more than a 600px high screen (let alone 720px), aperture and final cut pro don't count. Now name a program that would work better with more than 1024px wide. Didn't take you long did it? I have a 12" iBook and I assure you, the screen is taller than it needs to be and not wide enough.

Indesign, photoshop.

All of my indesign pages are twice as tall as they are wide.

Luckily work provides 21" monitors.

[liketom]

sorry i stand corrected :D

19" laptop's

http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000870064957/ :eek:

[ITASOR]

I just thought of something. Will they go back to writing "iBook" on it instead of "iBook G4". :eek:

[BlizzardBomb]

sorry i stand corrected :D

19" laptop's

http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000870064957/ :eek:

You do realise that more than half of the comments there are quite negative. The market is too small even as a desktop replacement. As if you can't move around an iMac from room to room without breaking your back!

[Platform]

I hope it'll still be white. I'd hate it to not match my iMac.

Yes, but with a black option...it is the new thing from apple :cool:

[liketom]

You do realise that more than half of the comments there are quite negative.
yep but many many years ago people thought that a 20mb HDD was big enough for em ;)

[Platform]

I just thought of something. Will they go back to writing "iBook" on it instead of "iBook G4". :eek:

iBook with a nice little Intel siticker next to it :D

[BlizzardBomb]

Yes, but with a black option...it is the new thing from apple :cool:

And if iMacs had a black option too! :D Can't wait.

[NewbieNerd]

Wow, the idea of a black computer. That's original. ;)

[dernhelm]

This all sounds pretty interesting, and good news for people looking for iBooks. But (and I've said this before) the low-cost laptops can still converge with their higher priced bretheren in terms of form factor and design. They will more than be able to differentiate the powerbook line with multi-core CPUs, replacable graphics cards, etc.

My prediction has been for quite a while that the lower-cost iBook will converge with the more upscale powerbook in form (widescreen, etc). You may see the iBooks go Aluminum while the PBs go with some other material, so there will be just enough of a cosmetic difference to make the PB purchasers feel like they got something "more". But I figure that we'll see a 13.3" widescreen iBook as well a 13.3" widescreen PB. If I'm right, the 12" PB may have seen it's last days.

I wonder how the "pro" users that like the smaller form factor would feel about that?

[Stella]

iBook with a nice little Intel siticker next to it :D

Right below the Apple logo lid.

or

on the touch pad so you won't forget your using an Intel powered laptop, staring at you.

:-D

[Platform]

Right below the Apple logo lid.

or

on the touch pad so you won't forget your using an Intel powered laptop, staring at you.

:-D

Glowing every 5 min :p

[Sol]

This rumoured MacIntelBook has a 1280x720 screen, which is an aspect ratio of 1.78.

A typical DVD movie is 1.85 to 2.35 aspect ratio, which will give "ugly black bars" of 15 to 87 pixels both on the top and bottom of the screen.

Please get over the myth that "wide screen" means no letterboxing for DVD movies....

Just to clarify what you said, the rumoured resolution is in the 16:9 aspect ratio; same as all wide-screen televisions. DVDs of new television shows will have no black borders because they are shot on 16:9 cameras. Films use different aspect ratios so that kind of content will still have borders.

The rumoured iBook's screen sounds perfect for 720p HD video. I hope it will not be too long before Blue Ray or HD DVD get added to the iBook.

It is too bad that the 12" screen will be used in the cheapest iBook. A widescreen iBook Mini would be more exciting.

[Truffy]

But it's bigger than 12 inches, which is already quite a popular iBook size. :)
The 13" is actually rumoured to be a replacement for the 14" iBook, not the 12", so it's smaller. Having said that, the resolution will be imporved, so the display will be superior.

Phasing out the 12" PB is not so smart though. If I hadn't needed the widescreen of the 15", the 12" would've been my choice, and I've seen plenty of people with them. They're very cool. Oh well.

[Super Dave]

<snip>

Also I hope the screens look nice like every Windows notebook screen.

Do you mean shiny? Because those screens only look nice to the person not using the computer. They glare up like a son of a gun at the slightest amount of light and are unreadable from almost any angle.

I don't understand why people like them, and I hope that Apple never makes a shiny screened laptop.

David:cool:

[Chundles]

Do you mean shiny? Because those screens only look nice to the person not using the computer. They glare up like a son of a gun at the slightest amount of light and are unreadable from almost any angle.

I don't understand why people like them, and I hope that Apple never makes a shiny screened laptop.

David:cool:

Amen to that, shiny screens suck.

[Super Dave]

I just thought of something. Will they go back to writing "iBook" on it instead of "iBook G4". :eek:

I'm sure they'll write "iBook (the i is for intel now, just so you know)." It will take up the entire bottom bezel of the monitor, but you know Apple. ;)

David:cool:

[smasot]

i hop the new ibook will be in black

[Super Dave]

Amen to that, shiny screens suck.

I think they're made that way so they will look nice on store shelves. I even thought they looked nice…until I tried to use one.

We're such simple creatures. "Oooooooh shiny!" :rolleyes: Thankfully Apple doesn't pander to us fools.

David:cool:

[jayscheuerle]

Hook one of these up via mini-VGA to your HDTV and you have a native mirror. Right now, I need to use a hack to span my 12" iBook to my HD lcd, giving up half of my VRAM. Slideshows look great at 1280 x 720 on a good sized screen.

This makes a lot of sense if you want to position new machines as some sort of media centers...

[w_parietti22]

Hook one of these up via mini-VGA to your HDTV and you have a native mirror. Right now, I need to use a hack to span my 12" iBook to my HD lcd, giving up half of my VRAM. Slideshows look great at 1280 x 20 on a good sized screen.

This makes a lot of sense if you want to position new machines as some sort of media centers...

really? I thought 20 pixels high would be kinda short. :p

[joecool85]

If they discontinue the 12" PB I'm going to be real tempted to pick up one of the current ones (get a refurb after they ACTUALLY discontinue it). The thing is, for right now, my 12" does fine. I just hope eventually they come out with another 12" PB or that they redesign the iBook...I dunno, I really like the PB look/feel over the iBook.

[w_parietti22]

i was bored... :rolleyes:

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/9194/widescreenibook1sy.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[lasuther]

I don’t think Think Secret has been very reliable lately. Their PowerBook rumors always seemed to be off, not to mention they were talking about widescreen iBooks in July.

That said, I think dropping the PowerBook 12” is a good move. Apple has been consolidating all of their computer lines, and it ends up saving us cost in the end. The 12” iBook and PowerBook are so close in features; it only makes sense to consolidate them. Keeping in mind that when ever they consolidate, it usually means keep the better features at the lower price. I don’t know anyone who would be opposed to that.

A 13.3” widescreen notebook is something I’m looking forward too, but I don’t think we will see it in January. Since I will buy a Mac in January, I hope I’m wrong.

lasuther

[krollster]

This rumoured MacIntelBook has a 1280x720 screen, which is an aspect ratio of 1.78.

A typical DVD movie is 1.85 to 2.35 aspect ratio, which will give "ugly black bars" of 15 to 87 pixels both on the top and bottom of the screen.

Please get over the myth that "wide screen" means no letterboxing for DVD movies....

True, and if one were to make your own movie in 16:9 then there would be no letterboxing. Same goes for digital TV if you've got the right equipment to play it through your computer.

[maya]

But if it replaces the 14" it could hardly be called a budget notebook. The 14" iBook is £900.

I bet they have millions of 12" iBooks still around and will seel them until they run out of stock.

Lets say that the 13.3 inch Mactel iBook uses a Intel mobo, chip, etc... then you are cutting cost left, right, and center. Which would mean the iBook will not only be shipping quickly however it will also be cheaper with more goodies. With this in mind I hope Apple puts a better video card other than the Intel graphics integrated rubbish. :rolleyes:

And remember with only one type of iBook you are cutting even more cost, with the main focus on BTO. The 12 inch G4 iBooks will run out of the supply chain rather quick if the price is reduced further. ;) :)

[Hattig]

I've seen laptops being sold with 1280x768 widescreen displays, and 1280x800 widescreen displays. Never 1280x720 widescreen displays.

The 1280x768 widescreens were around 12" diagonal.
The 1280x800 widescreens were around 13" diagonal.

I'd guess that either the information was extrapolated from vague information, or it is completely made up.

What happened to those rumours about 15" widescreen iBooks anyway?

If vaguely true, I see next year's iBooks being &#163;599 12", &#163;799 13.3"WS, &#163;899 15.2"WS. Features and clockspeed will be used to differentiate between the iBook and the Powerbooks, the latter will use discrete graphics instead of integrated, will have Firewire800, DVI/HDMI output, etc.

Still, I'm sure we can wait a month to see if Apple release anything. 40% of me thinks they won't release much, if anything, intel related.

[gnasher729]

:rolleyes: Any page layout program (Indesign, Quark) would benefit from more vertical space.

Because one A4 page = 842 pixels high and 596 pixels wide. Nice to be able to display a whole page.

[MarcelV]

I don’t think Think Secret has been very reliable lately. Their PowerBook rumors always seemed to be off, not to mention they were talking about widescreen iBooks in July.
I second this one. The last 8 months have been pretty inaccurate on TS.

That said, I think dropping the PowerBook 12” is a good move.
Please No! I want the Powerbook case. I agree on the feature set but I need the durability of the Powerbook case. My fell several times out of my car onto the driveway (yeah, don't ask me why this is a good thing...) and besides a cracked case, it keeps running. The iBook's case would not have survived this.

Also, I think Apple will need to expand the choice. There will need to be a machine for everyone if they want to take on the Wintel platform. A 13.3 inch iBook will limit the choice, not expanding the selection. Something that is much needed.

[Chundles]

Because one A4 page = 842 pixels high and 596 pixels wide. Nice to be able to display a whole page.

More height would be good for many reasons. Sure a 16:9 screen makes sense for a portable DVD player but for a computer a 1280x768 or 800 screen would be far more versatile.

[Chundles]

Please No! I want the Powerbook case. I agree on the feature set but I need the durability of the Powerbook case. My fell several times out of my car onto the driveway (yeah, don't ask me why this is a good thing...) and besides a cracked case, it keeps running. The iBook's case would not have survived this.


The iBook case is MORE durable than the PowerBook case. It would've survived with little more than a few scratches.

[Stella]

Hope Apple offer a black option.

The white is being old.

[jayscheuerle]

I've seen laptops being sold with 1280x768 widescreen displays, and 1280x800 widescreen displays. Never 1280x720 widescreen displays.


1280 x 720 is true HD resolution, 16:9.

Many widescreen televisions ship with resolutions of 1280 x 768, 16:10, as this gives a balance and your 4:3 NTSC television shows (and old movies) end up not having as much wasted space (black bars) on the sides of your widescreen televisions.

[maya]

Hope Apple offer a black option.

The white is being old.

Apple has gotten a pretty good response with the iMac G5 that was designed by the makers of the iPod. So I am guessing that they just might offer both a white and black option for the iBook. ;) :)

If this happens, what material will they use for the PowerBooks. :confused:

[Quartz Extreme]

I never was a big fan of the iBook 14" display. It always seemed blurry and dim, and it was very silly that it had no resolution improvement over the 12" model. Even if we don't see a widescreen iBook, we can be pretty sure that they will still increase the resolution.

As for the 12" PowerBook, unless they really aren't selling well, I can't see Apple discontinuing a solid laptop model when they're selling more laptops then ever...but maybe the PowerBook 12" will change completely into a tablet computer. :D

[Quartz Extreme]

This rumoured MacIntelBook has a 1280x720 screen, which is an aspect ratio of 1.78.

A typical DVD movie is 1.85 to 2.35 aspect ratio, which will give "ugly black bars" of 15 to 87 pixels both on the top and bottom of the screen.

Please get over the myth that "wide screen" means no letterboxing for DVD movies....

Remember that the DVD player in Tiger can use Core Image to either stretch the image slightly or zoom in slightly, or both, and it does it so subtly that you can't even tell, and hey, there are no black bars!

[otter-boy]

If I'm right, the 12" PB may have seen it's last days.

I wonder how the "pro" users that like the smaller form factor would feel about that?

Why are you putting the word pro in quotation marks? Many people, from professional photographers to professional writers (like myself), prefer the portability of the 12" PB, its faster processor, and the ability to use an external display as more than just a mirror of the desktop. I also prefer the smaller form-factor of the PB to the iBook.

The iBook is nice, but its just not in the same league as the PB. Whether the differences in the computers' features are worth the difference in price is up to the consumer, but since the 12" PB still sells very well, it's hard to believe that Apple will just discontinue the small form-factor professional laptop (which still leaves open the door for a 13" wide-screen PB).

Many real professionals, not just "pros," actually prefer the 12" PB to other PBs and iBooks.

P.S. I know you can work around Apple's limit on the external display, but I do like having the assurance that Apple supports (as in services) my configuration.

[jeriqo]

Well I have been interested in getting a notebook for a while now, but with PC notebooks selling for £300 in the UK I am not prepared to pay £700 for Apples current cheapest option, especially with only a 12" screen.

Now if you introduce a 13" widescreen iBook in the £400-£500 range then I might just part with the cash!

If you feel comfortable with a 450 euros notebook, you probably don't need a Mac.

[dxm113]

For what it's worth . . .

I have a family member, whom shall remain nameless, that is an Intel employee. Rumor on the inside is that the first Intel-Based Mac Laptops will ship in Feb.

Desktops to start shipping in May, at least that is what they are currently targetting.

My family member (who works in a R&D department) makes no guarantees, that's just the buzz circulating around the Intel production campuses.

[balamw]

Hmm, this defintely sounds more tempting than $800 for a 12" G4 from amazon.com.

B

[dogcowx]

I challenge you to name one program that requires more than a 600px high screen (let alone 720px), aperture and final cut pro don't count. Now name a program that would work better with more than 1024px wide. Didn't take you long did it? I have a 12" iBook and I assure you, the screen is taller than it needs to be and not wide enough.


Easy. NetBeans and any other IDE and/or GUI Editor. :)

[SiliconAddict]

Exciting times ahead.
I´m really curious about the price point now. Up or down?
Gotta go down no?


No..No it doesn't.

[SiliconAddict]

For what it's worth . . .

I have a family member, whom shall remain nameless, that is an Intel employee. Rumor on the inside is that the first Intel-Based Mac Laptops will ship in Feb.

Desktops to start shipping in May, at least that is what they are currently targetting.

My family member (who works in a R&D department) makes no guarantees, that's just the buzz circulating around the Intel production campuses.


Laptop I can believe. Desktops? No. The chips Apple is targeting won't be out until second half of 2006. Mac Minis is another matter.

[maya]

No..No it doesn't.

So lower prices is a bad thing. :confused:

I can see the issue at hand in regards to security being chipped away by every person out there who can afford a cheaper Mac, however that is a price we have to pay if Apple is going after market share.

Yes, I know what Steve Jobs have stated in the past. However he cannot be trusted with his open comments. ;) :)

[joecool85]

Laptop I can believe. Desktops? No. The chips Apple is targeting won't be out until second half of 2006. Mac Minis is another matter.

Yeah, but remember, minis are technically considered desktop. Especially since most people don't put their towers on their desk, but rather on the floor.

[Sunrunner]

Yeah, but remember, minis are technically considered desktop. Especially since most people don't put their towers on their desk, but rather on the floor.


That postulation is up for debate. After all, most of the components in the mini's are laptop components... mostly adapted iBook stuff. :cool:

[Hattig]

1280 x 720 is true HD resolution, 16:9.

I know.

Many widescreen televisions ship with resolutions of 1280 x 768, 16:10, as this gives a balance and your 4:3 NTSC television shows (and old movies) end up not having as much wasted space (black bars) on the sides of your widescreen televisions.

So. We're talking about a laptop here, remember?

[Photorun]

Yes, but will they be G5s?:rolleyes:

[Sunrunner]

Yes, but will they be G5s?:rolleyes:



That is much of the reason (if reports are to be believed) that Apple dumped IBM, because they apparently had no interest in developing those lower-power, lower-heat laptop versions. There will be no G5 for a laptop... EVER.

[maya]

That is much of the reason (if reports are to be believed) that Apple dumped IBM, because they apparently had no interest in developing those lower-power, lower-heat laptop versions. There will be no G5 for a laptop... EVER.

LOL, he was being sarcastic. ;) :D

He knows that as if you see, he is a long time MR member and poster. :)

[Sunrunner]

LOL, he was being sarcastic. ;) :D

He knows that as if you see, he is a long time MR member and poster. :)


I suppose I missed that in my zeal to smack down another discussion on G5 laptops... the topic has been the cause of much wasted eyeball time around here, especially before the last Macworld.... :p

[maya]

I suppose I missed that in my zeal to smack down another discussion on G5 laptops... the topic has been the cause of much wasted eyeball time around here, especially before the last Macworld.... :p

Ah you get used to it after awhile. ;) :)

[Porchland]

LOL, he was being sarcastic. ;) :D

He knows that as if you see, he is a long time MR member and poster. :)

So, are you trying to say there's NOT going to be a PowerBook G5?

[emaja]

That Sony with the 13" screen is waaay too small for regular use IMO. I prefer the 14.1 WS instead. They offer 1280 x 768 resolution and are an almost perfect combination of size and portability.

[BillyShears]

Why are you putting the word pro in quotation marks? Many people, from professional photographers to professional writers (like myself), prefer the portability of the 12" PB, its faster processor, and the ability to use an external display as more than just a mirror of the desktop. I also prefer the smaller form-factor of the PB to the iBook.

The iBook is nice, but its just not in the same league as the PB. Whether the differences in the computers' features are worth the difference in price is up to the consumer, but since the 12" PB still sells very well, it's hard to believe that Apple will just discontinue the small form-factor professional laptop (which still leaves open the door for a 13" wide-screen PB).

Many real professionals, not just "pros," actually prefer the 12" PB to other PBs and iBooks.

P.S. I know you can work around Apple's limit on the external display, but I do like having the assurance that Apple supports (as in services) my configuration.

Out of curiosity (genuine curiosity, not that sarcasm the Internet is rife with these days), what do you need a PowerBook for as a writer? Word processors are not processor intensive, I don't think. I can see why musicians or graphics artists or programers need PowerBooks, but I don't get it for writers. I do not mean to appear critical, but what do you need the PowerBook for?

(Also, off topic: what kind of writing, if I may ask?)

[dernhelm]

Why are you putting the word pro in quotation marks? Many people, from professional photographers to professional writers (like myself), prefer the portability of the 12" PB, its faster processor, and the ability to use an external display as more than just a mirror of the desktop. I also prefer the smaller form-factor of the PB to the iBook.

The iBook is nice, but its just not in the same league as the PB. Whether the differences in the computers' features are worth the difference in price is up to the consumer, but since the 12" PB still sells very well, it's hard to believe that Apple will just discontinue the small form-factor professional laptop (which still leaves open the door for a 13" wide-screen PB).

Many real professionals, not just "pros," actually prefer the 12" PB to other PBs and iBooks.

P.S. I know you can work around Apple's limit on the external display, but I do like having the assurance that Apple supports (as in services) my configuration.

I put pro in quotation marks because a lot of non-professional users (e.g. students) also like the 12" form factor and bought the 12" PB. I'm pointing out the fact that anyone can buy a professional-designated laptop, and quite often they do. I wasn't attempting to denegrate people with careers that bought the 12" PB. I was really pointing out that the professional designation that has been applied to the powerbook line is somewhat arbitrary.

BTW I agree with you on many of your points, but I don't understand your differentiation between "real professionals" and "pros". I certainly understand that there are a lot of people that like the 12" form factor and still require a lot of power in their laptops. My remarks were really aimed at determining how many of those users would be irked at a slightly larger 13.3" widescreen form factor. If the new PBs were to be offered at 13.3", 15", and 17" sizes, how much of their potential userbase would they alienate?

I was really just curious more than anything.

[dan_]

So get a 15"

Woah!

Somebody's a bit stirred up!!

I'd like more depth in Safari, Word, Preview, all my other web browsers, Text Edit, basically anything that displays text or pages.

I'd like more overall resolution for iPhoto, iTunes, Excel, Mail and Dashboard.

So tell me why more pixels = bad?

Actually, I'd like more pixels overall for Safari so I can display web pages at 1024 and still have room for Messenger and iChat.

[snoboardguy21]

I heard that the new iBook would tie in even more with the iPod to boost the "Halo" effect. How about something like this?

http://people.cedarville.edu/Student/cpbraun/images/widescreeniBooksmall.jpg

The metallic base could either be chromed out or be very similar to the aluminum used in the Powerbook.

[ccool2ax]

THere's no reason to, and I like it.. WHY!!!

[azzurri000]

I heard that the new iBook would tie in even more with the iPod to boost the "Halo" effect. How about something like this?

http://people.cedarville.edu/Student/cpbraun/images/widescreeniBooksmall.jpg

The metallic base could either be chromed out or be very similar to the aluminum used in the Powerbook.


My first post! That would be awesome. It's the best of both worlds, too, in
terms of the design of the ibook and pbook lines.

[2nyRiggz]

^^that right there sir looks like an altoids can:p


Bless

[ncoffey]

I want my 1920x1200 15" notebook and I hope I don't have to go to Dell to get it. :/

[woolfgang]

The current PB's are much nicer than the Vaio, don't need Sony.

[wilburpan]

Maybe not. One advantage of putting a 1280x720 screen in the 13.3" widescreen iBook is that you still have the option of putting a 13.3" display with a higher pixel density in a Powerbook and use that as a means of differentiating the 13.3" Powerbook from the 13.3" iBook.

Of course, this is an advantage for Apple, not us consumers. Oh, wait -- you thought everything Apple does is for our benefit?

Seriously, judging for my experience playing around with one of the Sony S-series laptops recently, this will be a great form factor.
I would think the differentiating features would be that the new 13" Powerbook would boast a faster processor, PC Card slot, DVI out with screen spanning, better video card etc.

I don't see the point of making a 16:9 display when all the others are 16:10.
15" Powerbook -- 1440 x 960 pixels = 15:10 ratio

I didn't say that this would be the only differentiating feature. I said this would be a differentiating feature.

However, the only 13.3" LCD screens that seem to be available now are either 1280x800 or 1366x768. I would find it very unlikely that Apple would have a custom made LCD screen (the aforementioned 1280x720) made for a laptop that is at the lower end of their product line.

[Jon'sLightBulbs]

A January release date is not mentioned anywhere in the Think Secret article. You can't infer January from "early next year." Careful, Mudbug.

[ccrandall77]

discontinuing the 12" PowerBook?! weak

unless it's replaced with a widescreen with the same amount of portability.

I agree. I have to think the 12" PB is one of their best sellers. Both 12" laptops seem to be the hottest computer items at the local Apple store... and the 12" iBook is one of the hottest items at the Genius Bar (i.e. it's junk). My 12" iBook has several major problems (all listed in the Apple Discussion boards, but Apple won't fix it!).

Anyway, I will definitely be switching to a Vaio if Apple dumps the 12" PB and doesn't replace it with a 10.6" or 13.3" widescreen!

[savar]

I'd have to say it's a bit silly to be putting a screen with only 720 horizontal res. That's less then the current 12". It would be prefect at 1280x768 or even 1280x800. That way it can still show 720p video but for day to day use you get a lot more info on the screen and it fits nicely in with the new higher res PowerBooks - this would also become the new little PB would it not?

Uhh 720 is the vertical resolution, i.e. 720 rows by 1280 columns. I dont think 48 pixels matters that much. Keep in mind OS X will be highly resolution independent in the next release.

[p0intblank]

13.3-inch iBook would be very nice, but discontinue the 12-inch model? :( I like having the 12-inch in the iBook lineup. Oh well, I guess we won't know until next month.

[NYmacAttack]

If they can increase the screen size without increasing the weight, then it sound great to me.

[nagromme]

TS thought the 12" was going away before--they could be wrong again.

In any case, there's a big market for a small PowerBook, be it 12" or some other size. (13.3 with less margi around the screen and a thinner case could make up somewhath for the added width.)

There are two major groups of laptop users who are the most likely to use an external screen: pro users, and users of small-screen laptops. Many people fall into both groups, and an iBook can't use an external screen larger than 1024x768, which doesn't really help most people except for presentations. It adds no workspace (without hacks, which Apple doesn't count as product features).

So a small, pro-oriented, spanning-capable laptop is still needed, and I'm sure Apple knows that.

I'd like the smallest possible laptop (even smaller keys) but with the lighted keys and dual cores of the top PowerBook--and the highest GPU they can fit. Maximum power with a nice big external screen and keyboard--and maximum portability too.

But I'd consider an iBook if it was a lot smaller than the smallest PowerBook, AND supported spanning.

[Cooknn]

If ThinkSecret is correct, this will definitely be my first business write off for 2006 :D It will seem almost nostalgic running OS X on Intel as I first fell in love with it in its previous life as NeXTSTEP on Intel back in the early 90's.

Can't wait!

[beatle888]

I challenge you to name one program that requires more than a 600px high screen (let alone 720px), aperture and final cut pro don't count. Now name a program that would work better with more than 1024px wide. Didn't take you long did it? I have a 12" iBook and I assure you, the screen is taller than it needs to be and not wide enough.


thats easy, photoshop. i need all the screen real estate i can get while working on retouching images. in order to see the progression of the image you need to view at 100% and if all i can see is someones eyeball at that magnification i cant see how a filter might be affecting the image as a whole.

i cant wait for the OS to be resolution independent. then i can have the menus at a decent size as well

[AlmostThere]

If the 12" PB is going to be dropped and there is going to be at least one 13" widescreen, I wonder if there is going to be an ultra-portable (say 10/11" screen, 1.x kilo / 2lb) coming soon. Compare with a Sony TX1 which still includes DVD-RW, Firewire, USB2, 60Gb HDD despite being roughly half the weight of a 12" PB. The resulting line up would be Intel PowerBooks in 11, 13, 15 and 17 inches.

[DIXIE]

If they discontinue the 12" PB I'm going to be real tempted to pick up one of the current ones (get a refurb after they ACTUALLY discontinue it). The thing is, for right now, my 12" does fine. I just hope eventually they come out with another 12" PB or that they redesign the iBook...I dunno, I really like the PB look/feel over the iBook.
joecool85:

I have the same 12"PB(version A), BUT several months ago I replaced the "so-called maximum" pre-installed 512 RAM with a 1 Gig Samsung (OEM) RAM from OWC. It works PERFECTLY, contrary to conventional "experts". You will then have 1.12 RAM memory. It will really make your 12" PB seem more up-to-date and much faster! :) :)

[otter-boy]

Out of curiosity (genuine curiosity, not that sarcasm the Internet is rife with these days), what do you need a PowerBook for as a writer? Word processors are not processor intensive, I don't think. I can see why musicians or graphics artists or programers need PowerBooks, but I don't get it for writers. I do not mean to appear critical, but what do you need the PowerBook for?

(Also, off topic: what kind of writing, if I may ask?)

I generally write fiction (short stories and an unpublished novel), but I've also written poetry and literary criticism in the past.

Specifically for writing itself, I don't need a PowerBook, but for other related activities and for portability it helps.

First off, the size savings over an iBook is nice, especially while traveling and while taking my PB out to write at the coffee shop or park, etc.

I've also appreciated the extra hard drive space, faster bus speeds, and DVD-burner (which is still not available on the 12" iBook). Archiving my writings on one disc is ideal (I have well over a GB of writings).

I also do some web stuff related to my writing (my site is being revamped right now, so I won't put a link at this time). It does help to have a PowerBook to work with Adobe Creative Suite, both for web design and for photo editing and processing. Creative Suite 2 would not run on an iBook well (if at all--can't remember) when I purchased it.

Most of those things I could do with an iBook, but a PowerBook is just faster and sleeker.

The real kicker for me was the official support of the secondary external display. I've presented at conferences and, before this year, taught college courses. For each of these activities, being able to project something different than what is on my main display is very helpful. I know there are hacks to work around this limitation, but I'm not excited by the prospect of having to get a new fix every time there is a security or OS update. If I have to do a presentation, I need my computer to "just work."

I guess I could find ways to do my work with an iBook, but for me, the extra capabilities and features of the PowerBook were worth it.

[BlizzardBomb]

joecool85:

I have the same 12"PB(version A), BUT several months ago I replaced the "so-called maximum" pre-installed 512 RAM with a 1 Gig Samsung (OEM) RAM from OWC. It works PERFECTLY, contrary to conventional "experts". You will then have 1.12 RAM memory. It will really make your 12" PB seem more up-to-date and much faster! :) :)

Never seen such an off topic (and confusing) post before :p

p0intblank, they aren't killing off the 12-inch iBook. The 12-inch PB on the other hand? That's a different matter.

[jayscheuerle]

It does help to have a PowerBook to work with Adobe Creative Suite, both for web design and for photo editing and processing. Creative Suite 2 would not run on an iBook well (if at all--can't remember) when I purchased it.


That's insane. I'm a graphic designer who can do anything I want to with CS2 on my iBook.

[dongmin]

My prediction has been for quite a while that the lower-cost iBook will converge with the more upscale powerbook in form (widescreen, etc). You may see the iBooks go Aluminum while the PBs go with some other material, so there will be just enough of a cosmetic difference to make the PB purchasers feel like they got something "more".

I agree with you that the iBooks will get a more 'refined' look in the next iteration, but remember that the iBooks are aimed at consumers and schools. For the sake of durability and cost, iBooks should remain all plastic. The very first iBooks actually had aluminum on the inside faces. But they got rid of it in favor of more durable, scratch resistant plastic.

Expect changes to the iBooks to be subtle: smaller bezel, thinner form factor, different hinge mechanism, etc.

[Sunrunner]

So, are you trying to say there's NOT going to be a PowerBook G5?


OMG!!


:p

[BillyShears]

I generally write fiction (short stories and an unpublished novel), but I've also written poetry and literary criticism in the past.

Specifically for writing itself, I don't need a PowerBook, but for other related activities and for portability it helps.

First off, the size savings over an iBook is nice, especially while traveling and while taking my PB out to write at the coffee shop or park, etc.

I've also appreciated the extra hard drive space, faster bus speeds, and DVD-burner (which is still not available on the 12" iBook). Archiving my writings on one disc is ideal (I have well over a GB of writings).

I also do some web stuff related to my writing (my site is being revamped right now, so I won't put a link at this time). It does help to have a PowerBook to work with Adobe Creative Suite, both for web design and for photo editing and processing. Creative Suite 2 would not run on an iBook well (if at all--can't remember) when I purchased it.

Most of those things I could do with an iBook, but a PowerBook is just faster and sleeker.

The real kicker for me was the official support of the secondary external display. I've presented at conferences and, before this year, taught college courses. For each of these activities, being able to project something different than what is on my main display is very helpful. I know there are hacks to work around this limitation, but I'm not excited by the prospect of having to get a new fix every time there is a security or OS update. If I have to do a presentation, I need my computer to "just work."

I guess I could find ways to do my work with an iBook, but for me, the extra capabilities and features of the PowerBook were worth it.


Cool, thanks for the info. It does sound like if anyone wants to do presentations (e.g. a professional, I guess), they would need to use the PowerBook. (Assuming they don't want to use the screen spanning hack, which one probably wouldn't want to do given they are professionals, and need to rely on support, etc.) The other stuff you mentioned is useful, too, of course.

(I'm debating whether I should get an iBook or a PowerBook when the Intel models come out. I have a dead iBook 600MHz right now, wasn't happy about no screen-span for this model. So pardon the previous questioning.)

[thinkdiffifdent]

Though I'm v. fond of my 12" iBook, the pixel size (dots per inch) is on the small size. I'd be alarmed if it got any smaller.

Although pixel size is rarely a problem when using a browser or indeed many modern apps, it is a big problem when using Word. Using Word at 100% yields text that I find uncomfortably small. And adjusting the zoom resolution generally produces horrible results because Word doesn't take advantage of all the neat stuff built into OS X for rendering beautiful text at any size. (I know I can up my font size and sometimes do, but that's not a very satisfactory solution.) If Appleworks or Pages were any good, I might avoid this problem. Pages scales text nicely, but is feature-lite and brings my machine to its knees even on very short documents.

Partly on pixel size I'd been thinking of going for a 14" if/when I replace my present machine. The bigger pixels would be good for me. If the 14" went and was replaced by a machine with smaller pixels... well, it would put me off.

I agree with other comments here about the value of extra vertical lines. Anyone who does a lot of writing would, I suspect, say the same.

[otter-boy]

"real professionals" and "pros". I certainly understand that there are a lot of people that like the 12" form factor and still require a lot of power in their laptops. My remarks were really aimed at determining how many of those users would be irked at a slightly larger 13.3" widescreen form factor. If the new PBs were to be offered at 13.3", 15", and 17" sizes, how much of their potential userbase would they alienate?

I was really just curious more than anything.

Yeah, I get what you're saying. I guess I'm just peeved by all of those comments that say something to the effect of "Well, if you were really a professional, you'd get a 17" PowerBook . . ." or "What kind of professional uses a 12" PowerBook?" I think many people in these forums assume that the only professionals using Macs are either videographers, movie editors, or photographers that need all of that space for visuals, or scientists or computer programmers that need to have lots of windows open at one time. edit: See riversky's comments below.

My distinction between real professionals and "pros" was based on the way many people use quotation marks to mean that something is not really what it says, i.e. pseudo-pros or wanna-be-pros.

I would be all for a 13.3" PowerBook, but I still think a 13.3" iBook would be a serious step down for me. There are still enough differences between the 12" PowerBook and the iBooks that many people, both professionals and non-professionals (hobbyists, students, etc.), prefer the PowerBook.

If Apple discontinued the small PowerBook and only left the option of a small iBook (at least in its current form factor), I fear that some people would more seriously consider a Sony or Dell instead of an Apple computer.

[riversky]

The 12inch PowerBook is basically a iBook in PowerBooks clothing....They don't need it if they have a light but powerful iBooks coming.

Yes it is nice to have a small PowerBook but come on it is NOT a "power" computer.

My thinking

iBooks---Light Portable Powerful...12inch perhpas this 13.3 wide screen. Enough for day to day work but NOT as main computer for power work.

PowerBooks--- 15 17 and a new 19inch model for POWER users. Video/Media etc. with the latest graphics and technology. True PowerBooks.

This would not include a weak wanna be 12 inch iBook that happened to put on PowerBook clothes by mistake....Good move if Apple does it.

[Yebot]

I agree. I have to think the 12" PB is one of their best sellers. Both 12" laptops seem to be the hottest computer items at the local Apple store... and the 12" iBook is one of the hottest items at the Genius Bar (i.e. it's junk). My 12" iBook has several major problems (all listed in the Apple Discussion boards, but Apple won't fix it!).

Anyway, I will definitely be switching to a Vaio if Apple dumps the 12" PB and doesn't replace it with a 10.6" or 13.3" widescreen!

My name is ccrandall77 and I prefer Windows over 2-inches of display real estate.

Laughable man.

[otter-boy]

That's insane. I'm a graphic designer who can do anything I want to with CS2 on my iBook.

Hence the "when I purchased it" part of the comment :rolleyes:

[BlizzardBomb]

PowerBooks--- 15 17 and a new 19inch model for POWER users. Video/Media etc. with the latest graphics and technology. True PowerBooks.

A 19-inch PB would be a desktop replacement yes? Well as the iMac is light and has a minute footprint, there is no need for it.

Anyway, I was thinking about the graphics they'd put on it. How about:

12-inch w/ Mobility X300 (No on-board memory) - £649/$899
12-inch w/ Mobility X300 (32MB) - £699/$999
13.3-inch w/ Mobility X300 (64MB) - £899/$1299

[regan]

I think the time is ripe for a widescreen ibook. No one knows for sure...not even ThinkSecret...but if apple still plans to keep the 12" ibook, its probably makes sense.

But to do away with the 12" powerbook completely? Hmmm...I find this hard to believe.

There are many professionals that like to travel with their laptop...and then come home and be able to hook it up to a cinema display. Why would apple get rid of their ultra portable powerbook?

Unless the 13" widescreen and remaining 12" ibook come with the ability to hook up to a cinema display and both have a superdrive, I don't think so.

Or at least it doesn't sound right to me.

Am I alone in thinking that? :)

[LimeiBook86]

I love my 12" PowerBook, it's small but, not too small. It's very portable and powerful. If it were up to me I'd just upgrade to a 12" PowerBook with an intel chip if/when they come out. But, if Apple drops it I guess I'll go for a 15" PowerBook, because I don't really wanna go down to an iBook - altough anything is faster than my current PowerBook.:rolleyes:

I forgot Macworld was coming so soon, darn! Now I can't wait! :p

[iEdd]

This doesn't make the greatest amount of sense to me. The difference between a 12" and a 13.3" widescreen isn't that much. It would make a lot more sense for apple to have 12" and 14" iBooks and 13", 15", 17" powerbooks. Besides, I want a portable with a 12/13" with a half-decent graphics card. 128MB if there is a 13" powerbook coming out. Maybe 64 if it's an iBook.

[dernhelm]

I would be all for a 13.3" PowerBook, but I still think a 13.3" iBook would be a serious step down for me. There are still enough differences between the 12" PowerBook and the iBooks that many people, both professionals and non-professionals (hobbyists, students, etc.), prefer the PowerBook.

If Apple discontinued the small PowerBook and only left the option of a small iBook (at least in its current form factor), I fear that some people would more seriously consider a Sony or Dell instead of an Apple computer.

I would agree. A small form factor powerbook would seem to be a MUST in Apple's lineup. It seemed to me that a 13.3" widescreen PB would be small enough, but I was curious as to what you thought, since you own and love the 12" model.

I'm hoping that the Intel transition allows them to up the features in the 12" (or 13.3", or whatever) PB to match those in the 15" and 17" (faster processor, more max memory, backlit keyboard, etc). That would definitely cement their leadership in the small but powerful laptop market.

[beatle888]

I still want to see a iBook Mini. No CD drive and only 2 pounds with lots of battery life. Movies and TV shows can be played from the Hard drive for those that still want to watch movies on the plane.

Also I hope the screens look nice like every Windows notebook screen.


your "walking in the future". thats about seven years off before we can rid ourselves of removable media. we would need a constant wireless signal to offline storage...like the net.

[beatle888]

I think they're made that way so they will look nice on store shelves. I even thought they looked nice…until I tried to use one.

We're such simple creatures. "Oooooooh shiny!" :rolleyes: Thankfully Apple doesn't pander to us fools.

David:cool:


your so right about this... "all that glitters is gold, and shes buying the stairway to heaven"

[-hh]

Refering to the first quote the new Sony 11.1" laptop (http://www.sony.com/tx) is gorgeous. We had one in work to try out, the screen is fabulous but the keyboard a bit smaller than my liking. The battery life is as good or better than my iBook (around 5 hours normal use) and it is as light as a feather including the DVD writer.

Is that a 4lb feather, a 5lb feather or a 6lb feather?

I checked your link to Sony and see no mention in its specifications as to how much it actually weighs.

FWIW, I used to have a nice lightweight VAIO ... darn thing literally fell apart despite very light use. It will probably be quite awhile until I trust another Sony.

-hh

[AUBPsych]

Maybe the reason the 12" PB is being done away with is so that the 13.3" Intel iBook won't overshadow the 12" PB when released. I really hope the Intel PBs are released in January...if not by then, hopefully March.

[gauriemma]

This doesn't make the greatest amount of sense to me. The difference between a 12" and a 13.3" widescreen isn't that much. It would make a lot more sense for apple to have 12" and 14" iBooks and 13", 15", 17" powerbooks.

From Apple's prespective, it probably makes a lot more sense to have to manufacture only three different screens, as opposed to five.

[efoto]

I would agree. A small form factor powerbook would seem to be a MUST in Apple's lineup. It seemed to me that a 13.3" widescreen PB would be small enough, but I was curious as to what you thought, since you own and love the 12" model.

I'm hoping that the Intel transition allows them to up the features in the 12" (or 13.3", or whatever) PB to match those in the 15" and 17" (faster processor, more max memory, backlit keyboard, etc). That would definitely cement their leadership in the small but powerful laptop market.

I personally love my 12"PB, greatest computer-related purchase I have probably ever made. 13.3"/12", whatever Apple decides is fine. My only major gripe right now is that the 12" doesn't support 2GB of RAM....why not Apple!? :mad:

I take the lack of update to the 12"PB to be a sign that changes are coming to that model more quickly than to the 15"/17" models, which is good news for the miniature-mobile users.

These echos of 19"/20" portable systems seem overdone, far too large in my opinion. The iMac at 17"/20" gives premium competition to a book coming in that size range. I can't imagine seeing a 19"PB, the 17" is already (too) massive in my mind, 19" would be ridiculous. Oh, and battery life....or rather battery death, would be horrendous with that size screen. I know people said all of this about the 17" when it was rumored, but 19" is ridiculous!

[iHavenolife]

I think that Apple needs to keep choices for people looking to buy an iBook in the coming months and have more than one screen size.

[LimeiBook86]

I personally love my 12"PB, greatest computer-related purchase I have probably ever made.
Same here, my 12" PowerBook is my favorite Mac to date, I like how small it is, yet it's so powerful. I think Apple would be foolish to kill off a great product. Although they killed the iPod Mini...but, replaced it with the iPod Nano. Hopefully Apple will make a new, killer 12" PowerBook, then I'll be very happy :D

[tjwett]

The 12inch PowerBook is basically a iBook in PowerBooks clothing....They don't need it if they have a light but powerful iBooks coming.

Yes it is nice to have a small PowerBook but come on it is NOT a "power" computer.

My thinking

iBooks---Light Portable Powerful...12inch perhpas this 13.3 wide screen. Enough for day to day work but NOT as main computer for power work.

PowerBooks--- 15 17 and a new 19inch model for POWER users. Video/Media etc. with the latest graphics and technology. True PowerBooks.

This would not include a weak wanna be 12 inch iBook that happened to put on PowerBook clothes by mistake....Good move if Apple does it.

what you're saying makes sense for customers, but at the same time it doesn't make sense for Apple. they are a great company but at the end of the day they are in business to make money just like every other mega corp. of course the 12" PowerBook is the black sheep of the family and Apple has pretty much ignored it for a while now. BUT it continues to be quite popular and sells rather well, at least from what i see. i have one, and know quite a few other people that do as well. and yes, i'll be the first to admit that it is essentially an iBook wearing armor. a few things push it past that like the nice keyboard, smaller form, faster HD etc but all in all it's not much of a power house. and everyone i know that owns one knows that as well. everyone knows it's not that great, especially Apple. but you gotta think of Apple's perspective. "hey we can just wrap an iBook in aluminum, add a few features and sell it for $500 more than the iBook!" why would they not want to keep this going? they spend their R&D on improving the iBook and right alongside it, a 12" PowerBook is being created by proxy. slap on some metal, add $500 to price tag...cha-ching. i can't see them throwing away such an easy score.

[efoto]

Same here, my 12" PowerBook is my favorite Mac to date, I like how small it is, yet it's so powerful. I think Apple would be foolish to kill off a great product. Although they killed the iPod Mini...but, replaced it with the iPod Nano. Hopefully Apple will make a new, killer 12" PowerBook, then I'll be very happy :D

I don't see Apple messing with a 'power' sub-12" anything, there is just no need for that. Looking at the comparison Sony TX1 everyone is pissing over you can see it isn't a power anything either....if Apple goes that small it will be an 'i' product, which is just fine :)

I could see Apple replacing the 12"PB w/ a 13.3"PB in the near future, and that too would be fine with me. As long as the overall dimensions remain similar to what they currently are (granted giving up height/depth for width, etc) I would have no problem with that move what-so-ever. I think a small wide-screen notebook would be an awesome compliment to the current massive-screen notebooks. Now if Apple is just going to drop the 12" w/o a replacement in that size then I have issues, tons of issues, because I love the portability of my 12"PB and don't want a 15" notebook.

Although some argue the 12" isn't as powerful as the 15"/17" (well duh) PBs I still think it has quite the market and a lot of users prefer having an extremely small yet capable (albeit slightly less) notebook to a larger/standard sized notebook. If I wanted a filter in PS to execute instantly, I'd do it on a Quad. If I want a capable system I can leave in the passenger seat of my car or have on-site during a shoot, I'd take my ultra-portable capable-enough 12"PB ;)

[trans3062]

Well I for one hope TS is right on this one. The 13 would be awesome (I'm sitting here typing this on my Sony S460) and would make me replace my broken iBook with another Mac.

Now if they would just update the design of it. The white is getting a little long in the tooth.

[LimeiBook86]

...I'd take my ultra-portable capable-enough 12"PB ;)
I love my compact PowerBook and (at the time) it could take most tasks with ease. Of course it's older now and runs slower. I guess I'll have to see if these intel PowerBooks are fast enough for what I need to do, it's either an intel PowerBook or Desktop for me. It'll be much easier to decide once we get some specs! :D

Also I don't see a 19 inch laptop coming, ever, it's too big, and the LCD would draw too much power, let alone it'll cost WAY too much. If you want a 19 inch screen get an external screen of just buy a darn desktop! :p

[AlmostThere]

Is that a 4lb feather, a 5lb feather or a 6lb feather?

I checked your link to Sony and see no mention in its specifications as to how much it actually weighs.

FWIW, I used to have a nice lightweight VAIO ... darn thing literally fell apart despite very light use. It will probably be quite awhile until I trust another Sony.

-hh

They are 1.25 Kg (a 12"PB is 2.1 Kg)

[TaKashMoney]

As someone previously posted, I am perhaps the most curious aboout the change in form factor. Are 13" laptops typically larger than 12" (non widescreen) ones? Its clear you'd be getting a book not as wide but a bit longer- but does that normally constitute an overall larger case? With the 12" iBook currently sitting as the love my computing life, I think the only thing that might make me purchase in january is a thinner, lighter, widescreen book.
To address concerns about the dropping of the 12" PB, and the subsequent uproar by 12"PB owners, I think its fairly obvious that Apple had hit a metaphorical roadblock for upgrading the little guy while retaining necessary requirements for heat dissipation and boosted "power" performance. While the switch to Intel was supposed to alleviate this problem, I think it would make the most sense to combine product lines to a 4 wide IntelBook product line. With Apple gaining momentum and with Intel opening up new technological doors, I see no need for Apple to "cripple" a consumer line instead of making a single affordable yet powerful portable with more robust BTO options. As someone posted previously, while I agree that I'm sure Apple loves selling an "armored" iBook for $500 more, I think its entirely possible that they will make up that additional revenue with this more efficient product line cutting manufacturing/distributing costs instead. And boy we all know how Apple loves that streamlined look...

[aswitcher]

They are 1.25 Kg (a 12"PB is 2.1 Kg)


And you know Steve will always be keeping an eye on the weight.

I still hope a wireless tablet thingy to control everything in the home...

[mandoman]

I think it's a good call that Apple will probably consolodate their laptop
line a bit and go from 4 different screens (12,14,15,17)
to three different screens (13,15,17) - all widescreen.
I think we'll see:

13 and 15" ibooks
13, 15, and 17" powerbooks.

12" and 14" goes away completely.

I don't know why people are complaining about the 12" possibly going
away in favor of a 13". The size difference will be negligable due to the widescreen form factor, especially if it gets thinner. And you'll get a W-I-D-E-S-C-R-E-E-N-!!!

[riversky]

If Apple was NOT going to get rid of that form factor in the PowerBook line why did they not upgrade it at all in the last rounds of changes....Because it is an iBook wearing the PowerBook body.

It makes sense to dump it if the iBooks will fill that processor/config.

Here are my thoughts.....The iBooks and PowerBooks use the G4 (same CPU different configs). The future is not this.

I think in the MacTel world the iBooks and the PowerBooks will use DIFFERENT Intel CPU's to further seperate the lines. Now that we are going to Intel they will have multiple lines and dual and single core within those lines...

iBooks and PowerBooks will have completely different CPU's by the time both are out! I predict that.

[Plymouthbreezer]

Awesome.

This will be my next Apple purchase. Hopefully, by the end of January.

13" widescreen, SuperDrive, 80GB HD, 768MB RAM. Can't wait.

Hopefully, that will all come in at under $1,300-ish with the edu discount.

[buddhagoth]

I love my current Rev. D 12" PowerBook. However, since I will be keeping it for another 2 or so years, I'm sure by the time I'm ready to replace it, there will be 3rd generation 13-something-inch iBooks or some kind of new all-black PowerBook close to the current 12" form factor that will grab my attention. And a chunk out of my credit card!

I'll be sad if they drop the current 12" PB, but I can see the reasoning, too, especially with price considerations.

However, I do sincerely hope they make the keyboards on the new Intel iBooks, whatever the screen size, as good as the current PowerBooks. -That- would be a really cool improvement!:)

Cordially,
B.G.

[Super Dave]

I heard that the new iBook would tie in even more with the iPod to boost the "Halo" effect. How about something like this?

http://people.cedarville.edu/Student/cpbraun/images/widescreeniBooksmall.jpg

The metallic base could either be chromed out or be very similar to the aluminum used in the Powerbook.

I'm not a fan. The iPod's scratchy metal back can get away with it because it's small and people expect music players to be smudged. As for computers…well if I'm paying over a grand for somthing I want to see something other than my fingerprints when I look at it.

David :cool:

[hyperpasta]

This doesn't make the greatest amount of sense to me. The difference between a 12" and a 13.3" widescreen isn't that much. It would make a lot more sense for apple to have 12" and 14" iBooks and 13", 15", 17" powerbooks. Besides, I want a portable with a 12/13" with a half-decent graphics card. 128MB if there is a 13" powerbook coming out. Maybe 64 if it's an iBook.

How about 13" and 15" iBooks? Then a 13", 15", and 17" Powerbook line could complement it well. Powerbooks would have Dual-core chips, 128Meg Graphics, and iSights to differentiatie them.

[Marky_Mark]

Well I have been interested in getting a notebook for a while now, but with PC notebooks selling for £300 in the UK I am not prepared to pay £700 for Apples current cheapest option, especially with only a 12" screen.

Yeah, but by the time you've factored in the cost of an Office product, photo software, CD burn management, anti-virus and firewall purchase and annual subscription, plus your time and effort installing and configuring it, you're looking at the same price more or less anyway. There are many 'hidden' costs to PC ownership, and the current PC World promotion of a Advent laptop for £349 is a case in point. A paltry amount of RAM, no wi-fi or bluetooth, cheap components all through and no bundled software. If you're not picky, the iBook is a self-contained package straight out the box, with AppleWorks and iLife bundled in. Windows is better than it's ever been but it's still pretty ropey compared to OS X, for usability, integration and management overheads.

I concede there are hardware upsides - some of which are reasonably compelling - larger screen, 64mb video RAM, four USB and a PCMCIA slot. I guess it's what you're after at the end of the day. Personally, I think the bundled software, lack of spyware and viruses, OS X's lack of maintenance overhead and the superior hardware integration far outweigh any other considerations by a country mile, in fact, deserve the premium, but that's just my opinion.

[efoto]

How about 13" and 15" iBooks? Then a 13", 15", and 17" Powerbook line could complement it well. Powerbooks would have Dual-core chips, 128Meg Graphics, and iSights to differentiatie them.

While I don't disagree with the size lineups, I also don't see (at least in current setup) getting a 128MB video card into a 12"PB. Perhaps the added width will actually alleviate some issues with this somehow, but I don't see that in such a small system. I wouldn't be surprised if we see 13iB w/ 32MB, 15ib w/ 64, 13PB w/ 64, 15/17PBs w/ 128.

All I want is a full 2GB RAM support in the 12/13PB, and an updated gpu that allows Aperture support (although no editing is ideal on a small screen, it would be nice to use a 'pro' portable alongside the 'pro' apps). I also hope this nvidia stuff is a step for Apple again, I'd love to see continued growth w/ ATI, both in the mobile offerings and get the PMs back to ATI, then I'd buy for sure :D

[Stella]

Firewall - free - with windows XP
Photo software - free - Adobe - Photoshop album
( or you can just use the file explorer capabilities for photos in XP - not everyone needs photo management software )

Anti virus - free - http://www.avast.com/eng/avast_4_home.html
(I'm sure there are more free ones - this took me 1 minute to
find in google )

CD burn management - windows has better CD copying than Mac - multisession support for example - except it can't copy CDs ( To get multisession support I'd have to buy Toast or something for Mac - so its even ).

- CD burn management - free - for example : http://www.cdburnerxp.se/features.php, there are more.

Office - free - Open Office. If you buy your PC from the right place - they give you an OEM ms Office free or for very little cost.

Windows has a lot more free software than Mac does, I think you'd be quite surprised by just how much - please don't say its all sucks, because it doesn't.

.. So, there isn't so much hidden costs as you may think...

iBook costs 2x as much as the #300 laptop... so I hope it does come with some bundled software.

Not every one needs wifi or bluetooth, so the #300 laptop would be good value.




Yeah, but by the time you've factored in the cost of an Office product, photo software, CD burn management, anti-virus and firewall purchase and annual subscription, plus your time and effort installing and configuring it, you're looking at the same price more or less anyway. There are many 'hidden' costs to PC ownership, and the current PC World promotion of a Advent laptop for &#163;349 is a case in point. A paltry amount of RAM, no wi-fi or bluetooth, cheap components all through and no bundled software. If you're not picky, the iBook is a self-contained package straight out the box, with AppleWorks and iLife bundled in. Windows is better than it's ever been but it's still pretty ropey compared to OS X, for usability, integration and management overheads.

I concede there are hardware upsides - some of which are reasonably compelling - larger screen, 64mb video RAM, four USB and a PCMCIA slot. I guess it's what you're after at the end of the day. Personally, I think the bundled software, lack of spyware and viruses, OS X's lack of maintenance overhead and the superior hardware integration far outweigh any other considerations by a country mile, in fact, deserve the premium, but that's just my opinion.

[mambodancer]

CD burn management - windows has better CD copying than Mac - multisession support for example - except it can't copy CDs ( To get multisession support I'd have to buy Toast or something for Mac - so its even ).

Multisession CD burn has been a part of Disk Utilities since Panther.

See page 411 of "The Missing Manual, Tiger Edition" for more information.

[Stella]

CD burn management - windows has better CD copying than Mac - multisession support for example - except it can't copy CDs ( To get multisession support I'd have to buy Toast or something for Mac - so its even ).

Multisession CD burn has been a part of Disk Utilities since Panther.

See page 411 of "The Missing Manual, Tiger Edition" for more information.

I know - but its far too long winded. I should be able to create a new session on the fly - just like in windows - when I go to record more data to a cd , a session is automatically opened. This is not the case in osx.

[shen]

Firewall - free - with windows XP
Photo software - free - Adobe - Photoshop album
( or you can just use the file explorer capabilities for photos in XP - not everyone needs photo management software )

Anti virus - free - http://www.avast.com/eng/avast_4_home.html
(I'm sure there are more free ones - this took me 1 minute to
find in google )

CD burn management - windows has better CD copying than Mac - multisession support for example - except it can't copy CDs ( To get multisession support I'd have to buy Toast or something for Mac - so its even ).

- CD burn management - free - for example : http://www.cdburnerxp.se/features.php, there are more.

Office - free - Open Office. If you buy your PC from the right place - they give you an OEM ms Office free or for very little cost.

Windows has a lot more free software than Mac does, I think you'd be quite surprised by just how much - please don't say its all sucks, because it doesn't.

some of the free software doesn't suck, true, but Windows sucks. hard. through a straw. and generally what it sucks is sewage.

all that stuff, free. and a virus and bug ridden piece of shi... err microsoft OS to run it on, priceless!

wait........

[DHagan4755]

OS X has a built-in firewall. OS X has iPhoto. OS X doesn't have viruses. OS X has a CD burner, but not everyone copies CDs, and now, especially with the iPod, there's less of a need to. iBooks come with AppleWorks which is more than a sufficient word processor. Windows may have more software than the Mac, but is all of it necessary? Not all of it sucks, but there's a lot of it that does.

[Stella]

OS X has a built-in firewall. OS X has iPhoto. OS X doesn't have viruses. OS X has a CD burner, but not everyone copies CDs, and now, especially with the iPod, there's less of a need to. iBooks come with AppleWorks which is more than a sufficient word processor. Windows may have more software than the Mac, but is all of it necessary? Not all of it sucks, but there's a lot of it that does.

XP has a built in fire wall!!! ( very much better in SP 2 than original XP ).

OSX doesn't have very good file copying to CD capabilities ( no proper multi session support ( on the fly ) )

Like Windows, the Mac also has a lot of crap software too - Alpha Omega Software for example :-D

Are you so all blind sided by Apple you can't be rational?

Windows does have viruses - YES, Windows is insecure - YES.

However, its not a total train wreck, there are actually Good features of windows that are better than osx.

Too see this, all you need to do is take off your Apple goggles.

As for the comment regarding 'there's no need to because there is the iPod'.. guess what...
... Not everyone has an iPod.... you know, there still is a need for copying files to CDs...

[MacSA]

I use Avast on my PC... and i've still found viruses when i've scanned the computer. If you want proper virus protection you need to pay for it.

[Stella]

I use Avast on my PC... and i've still found viruses when i've scanned the computer. If you want proper virus protection you need to pay for it.

Please remember, Avast is not an exhaustive list...

Whilst comparing what extra software you have to buy, lets take Text Editors

I've had to buy BBEdit for a decent text editor - TextWrangler, uEdit, SubEthaEdit , Taco , to name of a few ( I've tried most of them ), just don't cut it... BBEdit just about does, its pretty good.

However, windows you can get a edit editor of the same quality ( AND BETTER), for free. So... that virus checker would cost LESS money that BBEdit did. ( Oh, subscription - BB will charge for BBEdit 9 - which I would probably upgrade to, as will the virus checker renewal next year - so both are even ).

So, whats my point? You may have to buy extra software for windows, but you also have to do the same for the Mac, so, really, its no different.

[MacSA]

Please remember, Avast is not an exhaustive list...

Whilst comparing what extra software you have to buy, lets take Text Editors

I've had to buy BBEdit for a decent text editor - TextWrangler, uEdit, SubEthaEdit , Taco , to name of a few ( I've tried most of them ), just don't cut it... BBEdit just about does, its pretty good.

However, windows you can get a edit editor of the same quality ( AND BETTER), for free. So... that virus checker would cost LESS money that BBEdit did. ( Oh, subscription - BB will charge for BBEdit 9 - which I would probably upgrade to, as will the virus checker renewal next year - so both are even ).

So, whats my point? You may have to buy extra software for windows, but you also have to do the same for the Mac, so, really, its no different.

If Windows is so much better, why are you using a Mac then? And I think antivirus software is abit more important than a text editor lol

[Stella]

Windows may have more software than the Mac, but is all of it necessary? Not all of it sucks, but there's a lot of it that does.

I really wanted to answer this ( I don't like posting so frequently as just recently ):

Yes, absolutely, there more alternatives there are for a piece of software - the more chance one of those will fit my needs...

[Staffroomer]

But will it have Firewire????

[Stella]

If Windows is so much better, why are you using a Mac then? And I think antivirus software is abit more important than a text editor lol

It depends what you are doing - virus checker v text editor
( I wouldn't need to buy a text editor if using windows - i do for mac, but would need a virus checker likewise:
i wouldn't need a virus checker for mac, but would under windows )

I really like the Mac, I don't particularly like windows ( in fact, I really don't like windows at all ).

However, I have an open mind ( unlike some people on here ) and can see the benefits / weaknesses of both windows and Mac.

Isn't it better to be open minded rather than being closed? To be able to see both sides of the argument inside of living in denial ( a bit harsh term for this discussion :-) ).

[runninmac]

I heard that the new iBook would tie in even more with the iPod to boost the "Halo" effect. How about something like this?

http://people.cedarville.edu/Student/cpbraun/images/widescreeniBooksmall.jpg

The metallic base could either be chromed out or be very similar to the aluminum used in the Powerbook.

YAY! That was along the lines of what I thought it would look like. The only change i would make is make it anidoized aluminum and have the same top for the bottom.

(PS i relize that thats general mock up)

[kcmac]

I heard that the new iBook would tie in even more with the iPod to boost the "Halo" effect. How about something like this?

http://people.cedarville.edu/Student/cpbraun/images/widescreeniBooksmall.jpg

The metallic base could either be chromed out or be very similar to the aluminum used in the Powerbook.
If it is going have white on it, I hope it is more like the finish of the iMac or the original icebook. Clear plastic layer over the white. The current iBook white is just plain nasty.

From my experience, the aluminum cover has aged much better than the icebook that I had before it. The icebook scratched something awful.

I have to believe there will be a small powerbook. I love the 12 inch form factor. (13 inch widescreen would also be nice.) Anything bigger I think will be a huge disappointment for the 12 inch PB crowd.

January will be fun...again!
:)

[excalibur313]

How long before they come out with a tablet mac? Do you think it will be a powerbook or ibook type? Could it be possible that the reason why they are doing away with a 12" powerbook is in anticipation for a more expensive one of that size with more features (like being a tablet)

[MacQuest]

yep but many many years ago people thought that a 20mb HDD was big enough for em ;)

Invalid argument. We're talking about tangible, physical size. I guarantee you that people would concern themselves with the size of their hard drives if the physical size of the drive increased with the size of the amount of storage, thereby increasing the overall physical size of the unit.

Tell me, does a 20mb HDD from years ago still have the same physical size or has the storage amount increased significantly while the physical size has decreased exponentially?

[mjstew33]

This iBook looks awesome. Wish I waited. I'll probably sell mine and get a Rev. B or something - these are really nice if that's what it really ends up looking like...

[mongoos150]

On windows you can just change the DPI settings from 96DPI to 120DPI which makes all the text bigger and easier to read so you get the benefit of a high res screen with the easy to read text size of a lower res screen. Don't think you can do this with apple though. My work Dell 15" has a resolution of 1680*1050 which is the same as the 20" Dell 2005FPW (or apple cinema display...) which makes the text really small. One small change to the DPI settings and everything is easy to read and smoother thanks to the big font size, font smoothing and high res.



I hate to point it out to you but most 12" laptops come with a premium over larger versions. I think only apple make a cheaper 12" than 14". Sure you can get a Dell for dirt cheap, but it's built like crap and will be bigger and heavier than the 12" iBook. Personally i prefer portability in my laptops, which is also why people pay a premium for small ones.

Refering to the first quote the new Sony 11.1" laptop (http://www.sony.com/tx) is gorgeous. We had one in work to try out, the screen is fabulous but the keyboard a bit smaller than my liking. The battery life is as good or better than my iBook (around 5 hours normal use) and it is as light as a feather including the DVD writer. However it is more expensive to buy than a 15" powerbook and it is only 1.2GHz with Intel GMA900 graphics.

1.2GHz? NO THANKS! Wow, that's pretty darn atrocious, especially for a PC, integrated graphics, 400mhz FSB...you can definitely find better out there in that form factor if that's what you're looking for. I hope Apple can manage to change the guts of the PB/iB without modifying the case too much, the PowerBook (as well as iBook) have become almost iconic, although if it meant a faster FSB and a faster Intel processor, I would be willing to take the sacrafice...It's also funny how a few people here are posting about how they "don't care about the guts, just keep the light up Apple on the back!" :rolleyes:

[mongoos150]

How long before they come out with a tablet mac? Do you think it will be a powerbook or ibook type? Could it be possible that the reason why they are doing away with a 12" powerbook is in anticipation for a more expensive one of that size with more features (like being a tablet)
Good lord I hope never...Cannot STAND Tablet PCs, I wouldn't like a tablet Mac either.

[shen]

It depends what you are doing - virus checker v text editor
( I wouldn't need to buy a text editor if using windows - i do for mac, but would need a virus checker likewise:
i wouldn't need a virus checker for mac, but would under windows )

I really like the Mac, I don't particularly like windows ( in fact, I really don't like windows at all ).

However, I have an open mind ( unlike some people on here ) and can see the benefits / weaknesses of both windows and Mac.

Isn't it better to be open minded rather than being closed? To be able to see both sides of the argument inside of living in denial ( a bit harsh term for this discussion :-) ).

i can get any number of good FREE text editors for both platforms. moot point.

what you seem to be missing is that some of us have windows experience, (i have a lot) and have looked with an open mind, but what it boils down to is that a windows machine has one very good use. you can install linux over the steam pile of dog doo that is windows....

...and yes, every time MS releases a new system i re-open my mind and try it again. and so far, same result, every time. get back to me after i try vista.

[strange days]

13" widescreen iBook - &#163;699
15" Powerbook &#163;1099
17" Powerbook &#163;1399
20" Powerbook &#163;1699

:eek:

oh well, if they REALLY come out with a 20" powerbook, i'd sell my monitor and computer and go for it ! ( well, if i have enough money, that is... ). Otherwise, 13'3" is just the sweetest choice and about time apple designers bow to the sexy lines of widescreen laptops ( ibook or powerbook, whatever ). On a side note, i'd love a 7,8,9" widescreen laptop as well... :D

[Stella]

i can get any number of good FREE text editors for both platforms. moot point.
[QUOTE]

I very much disagree for OSX editors. I've tried the vast majority of free editors, for my needs, none of them are good enough.

[QUOTE=shen]
what you seem to be missing is that some of us have windows experience, (i have a lot) and have looked with an open mind, but what it boils down to is that a windows machine has one very good use. you can install linux over the steam pile of dog doo that is windows....

...and yes, every time MS releases a new system i re-open my mind and try it again. and so far, same result, every time. get back to me after i try vista.

I too have windows experience ( many years in software development and owning a windows machine), how ever, I'm not about to slag it off for the sake of it ( or just plain BS or 'forgetting' osx's weaknesses ). As I said previously, windows has some features that are better than OSX ( and vice versa of course ) and I am WILLING to recognise these.

For me, windows is a games machine - and don't tell me 'get a console' - I don't like game consoles, the games are too shallow compared to those on windows ( for example, deep strategy games such as The Patrician ) and I hate the game controllers - mouse + keyboard please.

[AidenShaw]

1.2GHz? NO THANKS! Wow, that's pretty darn atrocious, especially for a PC, integrated graphics, 400mhz FSB...
For small, light, with long battery life - one of the LV or ULV Pentium M chips in the close to 1 GHz range are tops.... Integrated graphics and slower bus also save power.

Would you give up 20% performance to shave 20% off the weight and add 50% to the battery life?

People don't buy subnotebooks for the power - "small and light" is king, and "runs all day" is queen.

[stefan15]

Alright 13" WXGA!! This will be an instant add-to-cart.

Really, we should be waiting for Merom... but it will be tough to wait if they do release this.

[esaleris]

Alright 13" WXGA!! This will be an instant add-to-cart.

Really, we should be waiting for Merom... but it will be tough to wait if they do release this.

I hate to rain on the parade, but I really think with the cost initiative of Apple, aimed at lower costing machines, the iBook will use Celeron Ms, especially for the Celerons. That's why I'm not holding my breath for the iBook anymore.

[stefan15]

I hate to rain on the parade, but I really think with the cost initiative of Apple, aimed at lower costing machines, the iBook will use Celeron Ms, especially for the Celerons. That's why I'm not holding my breath for the iBook anymore.

Good point.. maybe the price point will make it more attractive then. Either way these days, I'm surprised that any manufacturer even uses Celeron over M.

[Arcus]

As long as the 13" iBs donts have lines I may have to go for it.

If they do a 15" PB Intel without the crappy screen that a definate sale.

[King Elessar]

1280x720? That's exactly HD 720p resolution, so is Apple finally moving from 16:10 wide screen to 16:9?

[adamfilip]

I want an 8" Powerbook

1024x768

total size of 10" x 7" x .75"
2lb max.

All i need is a Mac to offload my pictures onto when traveling

[iEdd]

I want an 8" Powerbook

1024x768

total size of 10" x 7" x .75"
2lb max.

All i need is a Mac to offload my pictures onto when traveling
Aren't there adaptors for an iPod from belkin that can do that? Or do they need to be connected to a mac?

[BRLawyer]

I would agree. A small form factor powerbook would seem to be a MUST in Apple's lineup. It seemed to me that a 13.3" widescreen PB would be small enough, but I was curious as to what you thought, since you own and love the 12" model.

I'm hoping that the Intel transition allows them to up the features in the 12" (or 13.3", or whatever) PB to match those in the 15" and 17" (faster processor, more max memory, backlit keyboard, etc). That would definitely cement their leadership in the small but powerful laptop market.

I agree. There's no way in heaven or hell for Apple to drop the 12 incher without a suitable replacement. Apple has always been the master of the design/feature ratio in industry (sorry, 10" subnotebooks are just too small for any serious work).

But Apple needs to streamline its production, and this means dropping one or two models from the portable lineup, this is for sure.

The 14" iBook is an obvious filler which will be gone in no time; and at the 12"/13" level, it will merge the PB/iBook line to create a well-performing yet cheapo small notebook for the masses.

Intel chips allow for it, new low-end GPUs allow for it, and Apple, with a wonderfully new form-factor, will put the cherry on top of the icecream...just wait and see.

But PULLLLEASE, put the backlit keyboard in there as well, will ya???

[CmdrLaForge]

That postulation is up for debate. After all, most of the components in the mini's are laptop components... mostly adapted iBook stuff. :cool:

There is really no debate needed. The mini is a desktop system. Look at the Apple Store page. Its listed next to the iMac and Powermac.

[vaprof]

No more 12" PB???? NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!
My 12" PB is absolutely the best computer I've ever had -- including my
dual G5. Portable, capable, everything I need for the road and for home.
Let's hope they come up with something equally portable -- but the form
factor (including the screen) works really well for me. I'm not sure I want
something too much wider or taller. Lighter and faster would be ok, of course.

[a456]

No more 12" PB???? NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!
My 12" PB is absolutely the best computer I've ever had -- including my
dual G5. Portable, capable, everything I need for the road and for home.
Let's hope they come up with something equally portable -- but the form
factor (including the screen) works really well for me. I'm not sure I want
something too much wider or taller. Lighter and faster would be ok, of course.

I have been using a 12" PowerBook for 3 years and completely agree. It's portable, tough and has never complained about being thrown into my rucksack. Treatment that has seen many a PC notebook I've had refuse to work completely. Those that are looking for a £400 notebook I don't think realise what they are getting when they buy a Mac. How many extras like printing PDFs from any program and the new spotlight feature that have made my life researching for an English PhD a pleasure. I still smile when I sit down at my Mac for the day, something I never did at a PC.

[Chundles]

I have been using a 12" PowerBook for 3 years and completely agree. It's portable, tough and has never complained about being thrown into my rucksack. Treatment that has seen many a PC notebook I've had refuse to work completely. Those that are looking for a £400 notebook I don't think realise what they are getting when they buy a Mac. How many extras like printing PDFs from any program and the new spotlight feature that have made my life researching for an English PhD a pleasure. I still smile when I sit down at my Mac for the day, something I never did at a PC.
A 13.3" widescreen PowerBook/iBook would be as tall if not a little shorter than the 12" and a fraction wider. With new potentially cooler chips it could be thinner and lighter than before. I think it's a good move. I'd love a widescreen as portable as my 12" iBook. A 1280x768 or even 1280x800 screen would be awesome in such a small package. Especially if they load the PowerBook up with all the goodies from it's bigger brothers, the backlit keyboard, PC Card slot, decent graphics card with DVI and S-Video out. Who knows, they may even be able to find room for a second RAM slot?

13.3" 1280x800 Widescreen Intel PowerBook with 2GB RAM and a 128MB Graphics Card, backlit keyboard, PC Card slot, dual layer SuperDrive, Screen spanning via DVI out and TV via S-Video and some new half decent built in speakers. Sounds like my next Mac, can't wait to see what 3 more years will turn it into.

[devman]

Would you give up 20% performance to shave 20% off the weight and add 50% to the battery life?

People don't buy subnotebooks for the power - "small and light" is king, and "runs all day" is queen.

Very well said. I could not agree more.

[efoto]

shen & Stella, what does any of this OSX-burning/text-editor debate have to do with a 13.3" iBook rumor? If you want to debate OS features go to the "Mac OS X" forum or something....all of MR is off-topic :rolleyes:


How long before they come out with a tablet mac? Do you think it will be a powerbook or ibook type? Could it be possible that the reason why they are doing away with a 12" powerbook is in anticipation for a more expensive one of that size with more features (like being a tablet)
Good lord I hope never...Cannot STAND Tablet PCs, I wouldn't like a tablet Mac either.

I can't stand tablet PCs either ;), but a tablet Mac I bet I could get used to. Imagine having OS X with the input abilities of a Wacom tablet save for you're writing on the screen with the ability to launch apps and output to a projector for presentations! Amazing! It probably won't be the greatest product for home/consumer use, but I bet businesses will eat it up as long as it functions at a decent performance spec given its size/cost. I'd love one for taking notes in class and quick notes in the field while working. If it was small enough (say 8" screen) you could easily take it with you shooting (photography) or any other 'field' related study for taking notes or as a portable hdd that gives you an 8" preview ability :D

oh well, if they REALLY come out with a 20" powerbook, i'd sell my monitor and computer and go for it ! ( well, if i have enough money, that is... ). Otherwise, 13'3" is just the sweetest choice and about time apple designers bow to the sexy lines of widescreen laptops ( ibook or powerbook, whatever ). On a side note, i'd love a 7,8,9" widescreen laptop as well... :D

I just can't see people using a 19/20 *Book of any sort, that is just massive! Take a look at standard briefcases/backpacks/etc, 20" would hardly fit, if at all! Not to mention issues with power (although larger size does commonly mean larger battery, but still).

On the other end of your argument, 7/8/9 seems incredibly small. At that point you are basically talking about a 'large' PDA, which if that is what you want then perhaps that is a solution, but as a full-power laptop in that size, keep dreaming. I'm not a fan of the ultra-small 10.x" laptops because they all use low-power processors w/ integrated graphics, small hard-drives, and low amounts of ram. In a platform of that size, I can't see getting too many features. You are essentially taking a Mac mini, adding a screen, a battery, and probably a couple other portable essentials, and wanting it to stay the same size....I just don't see that.

[efoto]

A 13.3" widescreen PowerBook/iBook would be as tall if not a little shorter than the 12" and a fraction wider. With new potentially cooler chips it could be thinner and lighter than before. I think it's a good move. I'd love a widescreen as portable as my 12" iBook. A 1280x768 or even 1280x800 screen would be awesome in such a small package. Especially if they load the PowerBook up with all the goodies from it's bigger brothers, the backlit keyboard, PC Card slot, decent graphics card with DVI and S-Video out. Who knows, they may even be able to find room for a second RAM slot?

13.3" 1280x800 Widescreen Intel PowerBook with 2GB RAM and a 128MB Graphics Card, backlit keyboard, PC Card slot, dual layer SuperDrive, Screen spanning via DVI out and TV via S-Video and some new half decent built in speakers. Sounds like my next Mac, can't wait to see what 3 more years will turn it into.

A 13.3" 1280x800 widescreen Intel chipped PowerBook w/ 2GB of RAM sounds awesome! 128MB graphics is probably overkill for this platform, although if they can fit it in great....but just an updated chipset and 64MB of GDDR3 or something ;), I'd settle. Dual-layer or single-layer SD is a must, a full-size DVI port would be nice, with included converters to s-video and vga for those times when other ports are needed. Speakers aren't a concern to me, I'd rather forgo them all-together if it meant a smaller casing....I use earphones with my laptop more than the speakers.

Give or take a few specs, this machines sounds completely amazing. If it comes in at the current price-point, perhaps $100 to $200 less, I'll be in line.

[iEdd]

13.3" 1280x800 Widescreen Intel PowerBook with 2GB RAM and a 128MB Graphics Card, backlit keyboard, PC Card slot, dual layer SuperDrive, Screen spanning via DVI out and TV via S-Video and some new half decent built in speakers. Sounds like my next Mac, can't wait to see what 3 more years will turn it into.
That's exactly what I want, regardless of the backlit keyboard. I'd like FW800 too, as it is a 'pro' machine. Definitely want the extra graphics, it's been 64 for long enough. I definitely wouldn't hold my breath for PCMCIA in a laptop of that size.

[Randall]

13.3" 1280x800 Widescreen Intel PowerBook with 2GB RAM and a 128MB Graphics Card, backlit keyboard, PC Card slot, dual layer SuperDrive, Screen spanning via DVI out and TV via S-Video and some new half decent built in speakers. Sounds like my next Mac, can't wait to see what 3 more years will turn it into.

That would be some sweet resolution on a display of that size!! I would love to see that system come true. It boggles my mind how crisp and deep the iPod earbuds sound, but the built in speakers on the Powerbooks have always sounded like a5$. :confused:

[solaris]

13.3" 1280x800 Widescreen Intel PowerBook with 2GB RAM and a 128MB Graphics Card, backlit keyboard, PC Card slot, dual layer SuperDrive, Screen spanning via DVI out and TV via S-Video and some new half decent built in speakers.
Add dual-link DVI (for the 30" ACD) and FireWire 800, then its my next PowerBook! :D

[qtip919]

Add dual-link DVI (for the 30" ACD) and FireWire 800, then its my next PowerBook! :D

oh my gosh me too!

I have always felt that the 12" powebook is a joke (display resolution being the only reason) and the 15" is just a tad too big...

the 14" ibook seemed really weird, like someone just "up'd" the scale of the 12" ibook in every dimension...it just seemed a bit off...

The new resolution is all i need to push me over...

I just hope for an increase in speed as well.... question: I take it that everyone believes the new i(ntel)book is definately going to be slower than the current powerbooks...right?

[d_and_n5000]

jeez, we know the probable processor, the screen sizes, and everything. The only thing not known is if it will come with a black option!

[AvSRoCkCO1067]

No more 12" PB???? NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!
My 12" PB is absolutely the best computer I've ever had -- including my
dual G5. Portable, capable, everything I need for the road and for home.
Let's hope they come up with something equally portable -- but the form
factor (including the screen) works really well for me. I'm not sure I want
something too much wider or taller. Lighter and faster would be ok, of course.

Isn't there a limit on how long your signature can be? Like 6 lines or something...

[Chef Medeski]

The 13" is actually rumoured to be a replacement for the 14" iBook, not the 12", so it's smaller. Having said that, the resolution will be imporved, so the display will be superior.

Phasing out the 12" PB is not so smart though. If I hadn't needed the widescreen of the 15", the 12" would've been my choice, and I've seen plenty of people with them. They're very cool. Oh well.
Well, I think the 12" PB is ridiouclsy close to the 12" IB. I mean besides screen spanning and 1.5 Ghz, the differences are non existent. And those are still very minor differences. I think 1 12" notebook is completely fine with me since the lower one wouldn't be held back by a more expenive. I actually would have taken a 12" IB and wished I did since battery life is couple extra hours, better reception, well that was when they were 1.2 Ghz.... its a toughie. All I can say is that Apple is merely making it harder with two such close notebooks. Bettery battery life and reception or better performane and nomincally ebtter screen hacking; hmmm.... ohh wait the white one is cheaper, wrap it up will u?

[iEdd]

Instead of 12" iB and 13" iB replacing the 14", they should drop the 14" iBook and use the 13" idea to replace the 12" powerbook.
We then get something like this:

12" iBook, 1.6GHz Pentium M Dothan system -> $1599
64MB Graphics, FW400, USB2, DVI, Superdrive optional
RAM: DDR, 1GB built in and a user slot

13.3" Widescreen Powerbook, Dual 1.6GHz Yonah System ->$2499
64 or 128MB Graphics, FW400 & FW800, USB2, Dual Link DVI, Superdrive standard, possible backlit keyboard.
RAM: DDR2, 512MB built in + 1 user slot.

15" and 17" Powerbooks, Dual 1.8GHz Yonah Systems ->$?
128MB Graphics, PCMCIA, FW400 & FW800, USB2, Dual Link DVI, Superdrive standard, backlit keyboards.
RAM: DDR2, 512MB built in + 1 user slot

[iDave]

12" iBook, 1.6GHz Pentium M Dothan system -> $1599
64MB Graphics, FW400, USB2, DVI, Superdrive optional
RAM: DDR, 1GB built in and a user slot

You're suggesting the price of a 12" iBook be raised $600 ????

[mad jew]

I'm guessing that's Australian pricing. :)

[iEdd]

I'm guessing that's Australian pricing. :)
*Thumbsup* for reading my location. $1000US < $1500AU, yet the iBook is $1600AU. Meh. Those prices should be correct.

[aswitcher]

Instead of 12" iB and 13" iB replacing the 14", they should drop the 14" iBook and use the 13" idea to replace the 12" powerbook.
We then get something like this:

12" iBook, 1.6GHz Pentium M Dothan system -> $1599
64MB Graphics, FW400, USB2, DVI, Superdrive optional
RAM: DDR, 1GB built in and a user slot

13.3" Widescreen Powerbook, Dual 1.6GHz Yonah System ->$2499
64 or 128MB Graphics, FW400 & FW800, USB2, Dual Link DVI, Superdrive standard, possible backlit keyboard.
RAM: DDR2, 512MB built in + 1 user slot.

15" and 17" Powerbooks, Dual 1.8GHz Yonah Systems ->$?
128MB Graphics, PCMCIA, FW400 & FW800, USB2, Dual Link DVI, Superdrive standard, backlit keyboards.
RAM: DDR2, 512MB built in + 1 user slot

I think a switch to intel should also see a switch to HDMI connectors over DVI. That way we get HDCP covered plus have a smaller form factor, and you can always use a HDMI to DVI cable for legacy issues.

I would also hope to see new developments like GPS, UWB, OLED external displays for wifi detection battery life clock alarm notices etc, higher res screens for all, OLED keyboards for partial (function keys) or total key changing, inbuilt isight, dialup modems dropped, 2 button keypad,
on board flash for lightning startups, a gig of ram on the logic board plus 2 slots, etc I might be waiting a few years...

[Chundles]

I think a switch to intel should also see a switch to HDMI connectors over DVI. That way we get HDCP covered plus have a smaller form factor, and you can always use a HDMI to DVI cable for legacy issues.

I would also hope to see new developments like GPS, UWB, OLED external displays for wifi detection battery life clock alarm notices etc, higher res screens for all, OLED keyboards for partial (function keys) or total key changing, inbuilt isight, dialup modems dropped, 2 button keypad,
on board flash for lightning startups, a gig of ram on the logic board plus 2 slots, etc I might be waiting a few years...

Very good ideas all except dropping the dial up modems. On desktops, fine, no problem, but for portables sometimes the only access you can get is by a hotel's phoneline. Broadband and wifi need to be far more prevalent before you drop the modems from the laptops.

[Chundles]

You're suggesting the price of a 12" iBook be raised $600 ????

No, that's exactly how much they cost now. a 12" iBook is $1599, a 14" is $2049. Now, a $1000 iBook would be fantastic but I don't see Apple dropping the price by $600 just because they've gone over to Intel.

:rolleyes:

[-hh]

Very good ideas all except dropping the dial up modems. On desktops, fine, no problem, but for portables sometimes the only access you can get is by a hotel's phoneline. Broadband and wifi need to be far more prevalent before you drop the modems from the laptops.

I've been thinking that its also probably going to be awhile until you can drop the Ethernet RJ jack...and that there's got to be a way to figure out how to plug in a little dongle or something that could let it do double duty as a phone jack...afterall, most people won't have both of them plugged in at the same time.


-hh

[reflex]

I've been thinking that its also probably going to be awhile until you can drop the Ethernet RJ jack...and that there's got to be a way to figure out how to plug in a little dongle or something that could let it do double duty as a phone jack...afterall, most people won't have both of them plugged in at the same time.-hh

I was going to post something like "no way should they remove the ethernet jack" ... but in reality it might be nicer to have 4 usb 2.0 ports and no modem/ethernet/<insert old connection type here> ports.

Not sure if it would be fast enough for gigabit ethernet though.

[Chundles]

I was going to post something like "no way should they remove the ethernet jack" ... but in reality it might be nicer to have 4 usb 2.0 ports and no modem/ethernet/<insert old connection type here> ports.

Not sure if it would be fast enough for gigabit ethernet though.

I'm sure they could figure out a way to get more USB ports in (you're right, 4 would be great) and still keep the connectivity options, especially in the iBook with the lack of a PC Card slot.

A bit of a rethink of the internal design could free up a good bit of space.

[iDave]

No, that's exactly how much they cost now. a 12" iBook is $1599, a 14" is $2049.
Sorry, was unaware you were talking Australian dollars. I guess I need to think internationally.

[AidenShaw]

I was going to post something like "no way should they remove the ethernet jack" ... but in reality it might be nicer to have 4 usb 2.0 ports and no modem/ethernet/<insert old connection type here> ports.

Not sure if it would be fast enough for gigabit ethernet though.
So you'd prefer to carry around yet another dongle to convert USB to GbE ??

And no, it wouldn't be fast enough... GbE controllers are usually in the southbridge, or connected to onboard PCI-X or PCIe busses (often on independent busses).

The GbE controllers also often have their own processing power to help offload network functions from the CPU. (My Dell laptop has a StrongARM CPU in the network chip.)

GbE over a USB dongle would not be well received.

[Val-kyrie]

A 19-inch PB would be a desktop replacement yes? Well as the iMac is light and has a minute footprint, there is no need for it.

Anyway, I was thinking about the graphics they'd put on it. How about:

12-inch w/ Mobility X300 (No on-board memory) - £649/$899
12-inch w/ Mobility X300 (32MB) - £699/$999
13.3-inch w/ Mobility X300 (64MB) - £899/$1299

This is probably realistic unless ATI comes out with their x1000 series of mobile gfx cards very soon, but really there should be at least 64MB VRAM in every consumer laptop with a 128 MB option and 128 MB in a "pro" laptop with a 256 MB option. I would really appreciate ATI's hardware solution to Hi-Def encoding in their upcoming gfx cards. If Apple uses an x300, let's hope it is like Dell's x300 on which it is possible to overclock to x600 speeds. Here's to hoping ATI puts a move on.

[Val-kyrie]

iBooks come with AppleWorks. . . .

Will Apple include a word processor program on the intel books, and if so, what?

[Val-kyrie]

I use Avast on my PC... and i've still found viruses when i've scanned the computer. If you want proper virus protection you need to pay for it.

You should try the free version of AVG. Intel has purchased a significant but minority stake in the company. Rumor has it they are interested in implementing its technology into future chips. AV on a chip? Anyway, it ranked #4 among all AV programs for 2005--above Norton and McAfee--ranked for their ability to find viruses, ease of use, etc. And IT is FREE!

[Val-kyrie]

A 13.3" 1280x800 widescreen Intel chipped PowerBook w/ 2GB of RAM sounds awesome! 128MB graphics is probably overkill for this platform, although if they can fit it in great....but just an updated chipset and 64MB of GDDR3 or something ;), I'd settle. Dual-layer or single-layer SD is a must, a full-size DVI port would be nice, with included converters to s-video and vga for those times when other ports are needed. Speakers aren't a concern to me, I'd rather forgo them all-together if it meant a smaller casing....I use earphones with my laptop more than the speakers.

Give or take a few specs, this machines sounds completely amazing. If it comes in at the current price-point, perhaps $100 to $200 less, I'll be in line.

Actually, Yonah chipsets will support 4GB RAM. 128MB VRAM is not overkill, especially since Vista is going to need at least 128MB to use its better features--some of us need to use Windows too. I think, however, that instead of DVI, I would prefer an HDCP compliant HDMI port for the new monitors coming out. Without HDMI and HDCP support, you will never be able to project a Hi-Def movie from a Blue-Ray drive. This may be a bit premature, but most PC manufacturers will be shipping Blue-Ray drives by January. I expect Leopard to incorporate HDCP technology into the OS.

[Val-kyrie]

That's exactly what I want, regardless of the backlit keyboard. I'd like FW800 too, as it is a 'pro' machine. Definitely want the extra graphics, it's been 64 for long enough. I definitely wouldn't hold my breath for PCMCIA in a laptop of that size.

How about the new express card slot? This is the next gen tech to succeed PCMCIA.

[EDIT: aswitcher beat me to it.]

[BlizzardBomb]

This is probably realistic unless ATI comes out with their x1000 series of mobile gfx cards very soon, but really there should be at least 64MB VRAM in every consumer laptop with a 128 MB option and 128 MB in a "pro" laptop with a 256 MB option. I would really appreciate ATI's hardware solution to Hi-Def encoding in their upcoming gfx cards. If Apple uses an x300, let's hope it is like Dell's x300 on which it is possible to overclock to x600 speeds. Here's to hoping ATI puts a move on.

^First time I've seen 5 posts in a row lol!^

Well doing some research, ATI's X Series mobility chips seem a dead end for what we'd look for in an iBook. A Mobility X300 may not be powerful enough, while a Mobility X600 is far too powerful. Maybe they'd use the regular ones...

12-inch w/ X300SE (64MB) - &#163;649/$899
12-inch w/ X300 (64MB) - &#163;699/$999
13.3-inch w/ X300 (128MB) - &#163;899/$1299

...Or even AGP?

12-inch w/ Mobility 9600 (32MB) - &#163;649/$899
12-inch w/ Mobility 9600 (64MB) - &#163;699/$999
13.3-inch w/ Mobility 9600 (128MB) - &#163;899/$1299

[LastLine]

I'm sure they could figure out a way to get more USB ports in (you're right, 4 would be great) and still keep the connectivity options, especially in the iBook with the lack of a PC Card slot.

A bit of a rethink of the internal design could free up a good bit of space.
True, bar the superdrive the entire right hand side of the laptop is unused. As is the back.

What about a wi-fi USB Hub? :p


Hm, seriously though? 13.3 inch doesn't really seem big enough, I think that could seriouslly impact how people buy Apple. A lot of consumers go out looking for a screen similar in size to a Pee Cee laptop, 15". The 14" doesn't appear hugely smaller, and therefore people will still go for it.

Those that like the 15" size will stop buying iBooks. Yes, there's the 15" PowerBook however these are far too expensive for the casual computer user.

[Legacy]

^First time I've seen 5 posts in a row lol!^

Well doing some research, ATI's X Series mobility chips seem a dead end for what we'd look for in an iBook. A Mobility X300 may not be powerful enough, while a Mobility X600 is far too powerful. Maybe they'd use the regular ones...

12-inch w/ X300 (64MB) - &#163;649/$899
12-inch w/ X300 (64MB) - &#163;699/$999
13.3-inch w/ X300 (128MB) - &#163;899/$1299

...Or even AGP?

12-inch w/ Mobility 9600 (32MB) - &#163;649/$899
12-inch w/ Mobility 9600 (64MB) - &#163;699/$999
13.3-inch w/ Mobility 9600 (128MB) - &#163;899/$1299

I think I might add my two cents worth into this speculative debate...

iBook 13.3" Widescreen $899 Machine

Intel Yonah 1.66Ghz Processor
512Mb DDR2 Memory (max 1.5Gb)
CD-RW/DVD COMBI Drive (Upgradable to Superdrive...yes Apple please!)
40Gb 5400rpm Hard Drive (Max 80Gb)
ATI X300 64Mb Graphics
Optional Modem (USB), Airport, Bluetooth
NO FIREWIRE

iBook 14.1" Widescreen $1099 Machine

Intel Yonah 1.66Ghz Processor
512Mb DDR2 Memory (max 1.5Gb)
Superdrive
60Gb 5400rpm Hard Drive (Max 100Gb)
Ati X300 64Mb Graphics
Airport + BT 2.0 Standard, Optional 56k Modem (USB)
NO FIREWIRE

Powerbook 14.1" Widescreen $1499 Machine

Intel Yonah Dual Core 1.66Ghz Processors
1Gb DDR2/3 Memory (max 3Gb)
Superdrive Dual Layer
80Gb 7200rpm Hard Drive (Max 120Gb)
Ati X700 128Mb Graphics
Built-in iSight camera and Front Row w/ Crappy Remote
Airport + BT 2.0 Standard, Optional 56k Modem (USB)
Firewire 800 Port

Powerbook 15.4" Widescreen $1999 Machine

Intel Yonah Dual Core 1.83Ghz Processors
1Gb DDR2/3 Memory (max 3Gb)
Superdrive Dual Layer
100Gb 7200rpm Hard Drive (Max 160Gb)
Ati X700 128Mb Graphics
Built in iSight camera and Front Row w/ Crappy Remote
Airport + BT 2.0 Standard, Optional 56k Modem (USB)
Firewire 800 Port

Powerbook 17" Widescreen $2499 Machine

Intel Yonah Dual Core 2Ghz Processors
1Gb DDR2/3 Memory (max 3Gb)
Superdrive Dual Layer
120Gb 7200rpm Hard Drive (Max 200Gb)
Ati X800 256Mb DDR3 Graphics
Built in iSight camera and Front Row w/ Crappy Remote
Airport + BT 2.0 Standard, Optional 56k Modem (USB)
Firewire 800 Port

I think the two models (Consumer vs Pro) will be distinguished mainly by:

For the iBooks

1. Low cost, powerful systems. Look great, feel great philosophy.
2. Some expandability in the form of RAM and Hard Drive space
3. Widescreen architecture.
4. Removal of unneccessary features (Modem and Firewire), costcutting on cheapest model (Airport and BT Optional).
5. Decent gaming performance with modern chip and double VRAM.

For the Powerbook:

1. Form factor (as rumoured) to be much sleeker, thinner, durable and sexier in the Powerbook than the iBook.
2. Resolution of the displays, which will be higher in the Powerbooks.
3. RAM Support, raising expandability up to 3Gb or more in the Powerbooks whereas iBooks will be capped to 1.5Gb despite larger 2Gb chips being available.
4. iSight and Front-Row, to attract consumers towards the 14/15" models and power users in need of a decent camera on-the-go.
5. Huge graphics performance boosts, especially in the 17" model to swey serious gamers towards the Powerbooks.

[ooberpongo]

This rumoured MacIntelBook has a 1280x720 screen, which is an aspect ratio of 1.78.

A typical DVD movie is 1.85 to 2.35 aspect ratio, which will give "ugly black bars" of 15 to 87 pixels both on the top and bottom of the screen.

Please get over the myth that "wide screen" means no letterboxing for DVD movies....
Those "ugly black bars" wont stand out against the black Display enclosure. As you all here know the new 13.3 iBook will be available in White and in :eek: BLACK :eek: . Just like the iPods. I myself will get the black version for better contrast when watching DVD Movies:D

[BlizzardBomb]

I think I might add my two cents worth into this speculative debate... etc etc.

Hey, you deleted the "SE" bit from the cheapo model of the X300 on my post. Some good predictions there but...

The iBooks should come with at least 60GBs as standard now.
Celeron processors should go into the iBooks or else they'd blow a hole in your wallet.
Laptops should come with 56k modems no matter how much they cost.
If the PB went 14", it would kill the 15" in the blink of an eye.
An actual high-performance graphics card like an X700 would use too much power. I see the Mobility X700s on the low-end, Mobility X800s on the rest and a Mobility X1600 as an option for the high-end.

[Randall]

I think a switch to intel should also see a switch to HDMI connectors over DVI. That way we get HDCP covered plus have a smaller form factor, and you can always use a HDMI to DVI cable for legacy issues.Why would they do that? And why are we calling DVI legacy? DVI is the standard last time I checked for monitor connectivity. HDMI is and should remain in TV land. They could just use an DVI High Definition connector if HD is a must, which is the same form factor and fully backwards compatible with standard DVI. That way you eliminate the need for an adaptor, unless HDMI is required. Let's not forget that the form factor needs to be at least as thick as the components inside the box (hard drive, CPU + heatsink, etc.) switching the connector to HDMI doesn't do anything to lessen the IMO already slim form factor of the Powerbooks.

For the select few that need to hook up their Powerbook to an HDMI device (probably an HDTV) they can just use this http://www.monstercable.com/productPage.asp?pin=2942

[aswitcher]

Why would they do that? And why are we calling DVI legacy? DVI is the standard last time I checked for monitor connectivity.

It is now, but in 2-5 years with Bluray drives, Hollywood going nuts, a bluring of lines between monitor and TV (expect to see many dual machines in 2-3 years with decent price and resolution), multimedia computer/home theatres, downloadable video DRM etc etc, a shift to HDCP/HDMI seems inevitable for all computers that want to connect and play DRM video - say from the likes of ITMS ;)

HDMI is and should remain in TV land.

Computers have already been playing in "TV Land" for a couple of years. The lines will blur a lot more over the next few years.

SNIP switching the connector to HDMI doesn't do anything to lessen the IMO already slim form factor of the Powerbooks.


Physically the connector is half as big (or smaller) width and height wise. (I cant vouch for how big the internal size difference would be though. Any engineers about?)

[steve_hill4]

Hey, you deleted the "SE" bit from the cheapo model of the X300 on my post. Some good predictions there but...

The iBooks should come with at least 60GBs as standard now.
Celeron processors should go into the iBooks or else they'd blow a hole in your wallet.
Laptops should come with 56k modems no matter how much they cost.
If the PB went 14", it would kill the 15" in the blink of an eye.
An actual high-performance graphics card like an X700 would use too much power. I see the Mobility X700s on the low-end, Mobility X800s on the rest and a Mobility X1600 as an option for the high-end.
I agree, but maybe even having an 80GB HDD on the larger iBook. Sony and HP have lower end laptops that have 80-100GB built in, so all they have to do is cut back on other specs and enlarge the HDD to an extent. Storage is getting more important for those who are using a laptop as their main computer.

Also, I agree for laptops, dial-up modems are a must. Not only to ensure sales to those who need them, but if you take it away somewhere and you want to just use a standard pay as you go dial-up internet service, (where wi-fi and such aren't available), you have the ability out of the box.

I also would want to see a 13.3" PowerBook, rather than 14.1" being the smallest. There are a fair few who would want to have a small pro laptop. If they have a 14.1, it's not much smaller than a 15.4. Why should someone looking for the smallest Apple portable have to settle for the lowest spec on the market?

[Legacy]

Hey, you deleted the "SE" bit from the cheapo model of the X300 on my post. Some good predictions there but...

The iBooks should come with at least 60GBs as standard now.
Celeron processors should go into the iBooks or else they'd blow a hole in your wallet.
Laptops should come with 56k modems no matter how much they cost.
If the PB went 14", it would kill the 15" in the blink of an eye.
An actual high-performance graphics card like an X700 would use too much power. I see the Mobility X700s on the low-end, Mobility X800s on the rest and a Mobility X1600 as an option for the high-end.

Sorry I deleted by accident because I was deleting my one and I must have deleted yours as well! I think I would puke if Celeron was used...even the G4 chip is better IMO than a Celeron..eww. I tried to seperate single/dual core chips in my prediction. I do seriously think the 56k modem will go for an optional USB dongle modem and when I used graphics cards, I assumed they would all be driven by 'mobility' technology...

Some decent predictions IMHO maybe the 14inch should be 13.3inch I guess (although with higher resolution).

Regards

[danvdr]

[QUOTE=Legacy]I think I might add my two cents worth into this speculative debate...

iBook 13.3" Widescreen $899 Machine

Intel Yonah 1.66Ghz Processor


I thought the single core Yonah wasn't due until spring '06?

[Legacy]

[QUOTE=Legacy]I think I might add my two cents worth into this speculative debate...

iBook 13.3" Widescreen $899 Machine

Intel Yonah 1.66Ghz Processor


I thought the single core Yonah wasn't due until spring '06?

I am unaware of this but if this is the case, then it is very unlikely Apple would release an Intel iBook in January or a Mac Mini for that matter... I think using a Dothan Pentium M is a wrong move..Apple should stick with the newest and best and that is Yonah and Merom.

If only dual core is to be available this would undoubtedly pave the way for a Powerbook update..and a huge one! It seems wiser to me, from a pure marketing point of view, that the Powerbooks receive SOS ASAP! They are currently anaemic with the G4 and poor graphics. We need dual core fast. People need to stop thinking 'I'm a pro but why pay &#163;400 for a Powerbook when all I'm gettin is a 300Mhz processor boost and a slightly faster bus with DDR2 memory.' Back in the days people respected the Powerbook..I remember when the iBook came out it had 300Mhz G3 and only 32Megs of RAM! (Not to mention crappy 4Mb graphics was it?) The gap was HUGE! Nowadays I see too many students using it to type notes in lectures now. It is a pro laptop not a toy.

Bring on the dual-core Powerbooks in January. The Mac Mini is fine as it is at the moment, if you are a power user get a PowerMac..us laptop users have no choice..we are stuck with the G4!

[Randall]

I think I might add my two cents worth into this speculative debate...

iBook 13.3" Widescreen $899 Machine

Intel Yonah 1.66Ghz Processor


I thought the single core Yonah wasn't due until spring '06?You are correct, the single core Yonah (Pentium M) is NOT due until spring of '06. That is why seeing a dual core Yonah in anything other then a Powerbook this coming January would supprise me very much. I posted this in another thread on this forum, but I think it's worth a look. This is just my theoretical timeline I came up with based on extrapolating from the Intel roadmap and from what Steve Jobs said of Apple's plans last June.

My theoretical roadmap to the x86 switch:
January 2006: Powerbook gets dual core 32-bit Yonah
January 2006: ibook gets single core 32-bit Dothan
January 2006: mini gets single core 32-bit Dothan

June 2006: ibook gets single core 32-bit Yonah
June 2006: mini gets single core 32-bit Yonah

January 2007: OS X 10.5 Leopard released as "Universal Binaray"
January 2007: Powermac gets dual core 64-bit Woodcrest
January 2007: Powerbook gets dual core 64-bit Merom

Rest of 2007: Switch to x86 gets finalized, and verious updates are given to the lines, eventully bringing all up to 64-bit processing.

It might be a little bit of a stretch to think that Apple would put an "old" processor in the ibook and mini this January, but this is the only way I can see putting an Intel in anything besides a Powerbook this January. They have to draw the line somewhere as to what constitutes a "high end" machine. And Yonah will only be available as dual core this winter. iBook and mac mini are not high-end machines, so they should get the Dothan chipset, or just wait until June.