Apple Stores Gearing Up for the Event [Archive]

lmalave

Jan 5, 2003, 03:14 AM

Originally posted by Macrumors
With MacWorld San Francisco approaching, it appears Apple Stores are gearing up for the "big release"...

Deliveries are expected on Monday, which can not -- under any circumstances -- be opened until after 10am PST. Small 6-inch display acrylics have already arrived and are to be used to display... something... and significant changes are to be made to the store floors on Tuesday night.

Something is coming...

Can't be opened until 10 AM PST? Is that on Monday or Tuesday? Surely Jobs will want to keep the lid on until his keynote tuesday.

Hmm...display acrylics - that would definitely be for a small new device (or upgraded iPod), not for any computer. It also seems to rule out a set-top box since they probably wouldn't display it vertically like that... Apple is really tight-lipped about this one - I have a feeling this one's going to be mind-boggling. Definitely on par with FP iMac. The few financial analyst types who've gotten a sneak peek say it's going to blow everyone away.

Crowbar

Jan 5, 2003, 03:15 AM

Well that doesn't sound _so_ exciting, but then an mp3 player didn't sound that good in the first place.

Whatever it is the insanely great part will be sonething the rest of us have never thought of.

<
One thing is for sure.. if you buy Apple right now, and sell on the 6th.. You will make a killing (as the stock usually skyrockets on announcements likes these!)
>

So I wouldn't expect the stock market to grasp it too quickly!!!

arn

Jan 5, 2003, 03:16 AM

10am PST on Tuesday

Original article was corrected.

arn

Chaszmyr

Jan 5, 2003, 03:20 AM

This thread had better not be getting my hopes up for nothing :-P

LimeiBook86

Jan 5, 2003, 03:22 AM

I am going to the Apple Store on Sunday, I will buy Jaguar, now I wonder if I should save my money and but this "new product" lol

Beej

Jan 5, 2003, 03:23 AM

Originally posted by edvniow
I had better not sleep in for this one, it's going to be good. Ha! You think you're at risk of sleeping through it? It's on at 4:00 AM local time here :) Not sure what time it will be on in "the city at the edge of Forever" though :D

AndrewMT

Jan 5, 2003, 03:54 AM

I have an anonymous source from an employee at my local Apple store. Apparently, on January 7th, you will be able to buy 6" acrylic displays to set your ipods on when they are not on your pocket.

Get out those credit cards everyone!

LimeiBook86

Jan 5, 2003, 04:01 AM

Are you being serious? Or are you just ****ing with us?

iJon

Jan 5, 2003, 04:26 AM

Originally posted by Xapplimatic

OK, I give.. it's a Blue____ iP__! ;'}
(with optional 2.4 GHz accessories)... :O

:)

hehehe... the anticipation is killing, but my data and sources are reliable enough I'll stand on this one.. I'd even place sizable $ bets.

One thing is for sure.. if you buy Apple right now, and sell on the 6th.. You will make a killing (as the stock usually skyrockets on announcements likes these!)
yeah like the other guy said. apples stock doesnt soar through the roof. sales may but stock doesnt. apples stock usually doesn nothing after macworld or it will go down. apple really isnt a good stock, i sure wouldnt own any. its like what most people say, people usually people own apple stock because of an emotional attachment to the company. now i would probably buy some if apple dropped to 13 or 12 because its bound go go up.

iJon

iJon

Jan 5, 2003, 04:30 AM

Originally posted by AndrewMT
I have an anonymous source from an employee at my local Apple store. Apparently, on January 7th, you will be able to buy 6" acrylic displays to set your ipods on when they are not on your pocket.

Get out those credit cards everyone!
i dont believe that, those are expensive to make. I have one, and its only good for displays and lockdowns so no own steals your ipod. its big and i dont recommend it for a holder for you ipod. i doubt apple will sell them to the public.

iJon

Crowbar

Jan 5, 2003, 04:56 AM

Originally posted by iJon

i dont believe that, those are expensive to make. I have one, and its only good for displays and lockdowns so no own steals your ipod. its big and i dont recommend it for a holder for you ipod. i doubt apple will sell them to the public.

iJon

Yeah, and the word gullible isn't in your Funk & Wagnels, did you know that???

iJon

Jan 5, 2003, 05:06 AM

Originally posted by Crowbar

Yeah, and the word gullible isn't in your Funk & Wagnels, did you know that???
actually they may make some, who knows, its later here and im pretty tired and i wasnt paying attention to details. the one i have isnt 6inches. mien is much bigger. it is the one you see the ipods in at the apple stores which has pictures of the itunes logo and stuff. we will have to wait and see. i really think we are in store for some cool stuff this macworld.

iJon

Xerov

Jan 5, 2003, 06:23 AM

The iPod is already out...while I also think they will be updated in some way...why wouldn't they be able to display these iPods the same way they do the ones now..

What im thinking is a cell phone...
steve had been quoted saying "The PDA market is dead but there is hope for cell phones"

just my 2 cents

iJon

Jan 5, 2003, 06:43 AM

Originally posted by Xerov
The iPod is already out...while I also think they will be updated in some way...why wouldn't they be able to display these iPods the same way they do the ones now..

What im thinking is a cell phone...
steve had been quoted saying "The PDA market is dead but there is hope for cell phones"

just my 2 cents
good call, but apple would not use the same cases to show the ipods if they were updates. we had a huge acryrilc case the our ipod went in to show. when apple came out with the new ipods, apple sent us a completly new acrylic case that had an itunes 3 logo and said 4000 songs in your pocket with the new font istead of the itunes 2 logo with it saying 1000 songs in your pocket with apple garamond. apple could have something new, or they are gonna start displaying new ipods in smaller cases. we will just have to wait and see. all i know is that im very exciting about this macworld.

iJon

HasanDaddy

Jan 5, 2003, 07:00 AM

I agree

I think its a cellphone

although....I wouldn't be surprised if they reveavled a video iPod and Tablet as well

Tom800

Jan 5, 2003, 07:18 AM

Isn't it a bit risky to have iWhatEverItIs in stores now? What if some employee gets a little lose lipped, or some fanatic breaks in to get one/some photos? Or they spill out the back of a lorry, etc etc... With all that stock travelling around the country something is BOUND to leak, surely?

My 2 cents: it's a tablet ala the Newton (thus not a PDA) which will in part appeal to the education market for its ability to write up notes combined with diagrams and to make these instantly searchable. Either that or it's the iTamagotchi, a little mouse like critter truly lifelike with steve jobs' face on the front.

Then again there's the undeniable lure of the acrylic sheet to place you iPod on when not in use; that idea intrigues me...

nickmcghie

Jan 5, 2003, 08:21 AM

my philisophy is to except the worst (in other words, to expect NOTHING).. that way, if *anything* happens, i will be happy.. hehe ;)

Marvenp

Jan 5, 2003, 08:23 AM

Originally posted by iJon
i still think we will see new imacs. ingram still showing less and less imacs, and they dotn have any on order.

iJon

I agree. I just tried to buy a second 17' iMac for my wife yesterday at one of the largest Mac stores in Japan and they were sold out. That was very unusual. Even the sales manager seemed to hint at a new iMac to be released as the reason.

rugby

Jan 5, 2003, 08:57 AM

I really don't see Apple as making a cellphone. They may collaborate with SE to add a lot of video technology to cellphones, but I really can't see them having enough cash to actually build plants and fab their own phones. That would be suicide.

Maybe they'll announce Nokia finally got off their asses and made syncML work over bluetooth on their phones. The ones that have bluetooth that is.:(

Chaszmyr

Jan 5, 2003, 09:22 AM

Originally posted by Tom800
Isn't it a bit risky to have iWhatEverItIs in stores now? What if some employee gets a little lose lipped, or some fanatic breaks in to get one/some photos? Or they spill out the back of a lorry, etc etc... With all that stock travelling around the country something is BOUND to leak, surely?

Well they arent there now(or shouldnt be), they will be on monday. And yes, its a little risky... But if this is going to be a really incredible device, Apple will want to sell thousands of them within hours of the keynote :-)

utilizer

Jan 5, 2003, 09:23 AM

New products:

-From a friend out in CA: New iPod w/ bluetooth, w/ some capabilities of shooting pictures and some movies like the Sony Clie, hence the patent for the color screen on the device -- Brushed metal exterior (Now you know why the 5GB version isn't going anywhere! i.e., cost) -- 40% chance

Revised products:

-DVD player sometime this year -- Unsure whether this is the place to do it. If it is, then iDVD and iMovie will see major upgrades. If so, then no iPod upgrades
75% chance

-Airport, Rendezvous will make it's debut at Apple on this device; may have bluetooth integrated in it too but unsure at this point
90% chance

-Displays, affirmative -110% chance!

-iTunes: will be one of the highlights of the show, new visualizations that sync with the music being played; absolutely incredible - 110%

-Rumored bundle with iPhoto, iDVD, iMovie together is true (duh) - 299%

Next month on Feb. 12- 60%
PowerMacs, maybe delayed until WDCC: Quieter machines, running the 7457 @ 1 ghz at the low end up to 1.35 ghz or 1.4 ghz depending on supply on hand; Build-to-Order option of ATI 9700 pro, but with the new GeForce FX standard on these machines (the pro version of this card); Debut of Gigawire, NO USB 2.0; integrated Bluetooth -- Later featured in the portables -- New three-button mouse with scroll wheel and keyboard, Bluetooth

65%
iMacs, Feb. 12, possibly even before: Graphics card update, unsure at this point which one (ATI or nVidia), 1 ghz 7457 chip, 120 GB, 17 in. display on the high-end -- No surprises here

the_vapor

Jan 5, 2003, 09:32 AM

An Apple employee in the UK posted this over at another forum, and it's been verified by another 2 anonymous Apple employees this morning.

http://robo.cx/~bobo/ars/iPhone.jpg

utilizer

Jan 5, 2003, 09:38 AM

Originally posted by the_vapor
An Apple employee in the UK posted this over at another forum, and it's been verified by another 2 anonymous Apple employees this morning.

http://robo.cx/~bobo/ars/iPhone.jpg

Clearly fake and where's the innovation??? :o
Take a look at that earpiece though! Imagine trying to hear somebody on that thing! Oh and the dead giveaway is the gray layer contrast between the "iPhone title" and the battery indicator -- Nice try!

Chaszmyr

Jan 5, 2003, 09:42 AM

*Laughs!*

If that phone was real (Which it is NOT), it would be the biggest product flop in the history of Apple.

skunk

Jan 5, 2003, 09:49 AM

Can you imagine trying to dial on that? :p :p No "clear" button, no scroll buttons, no alphanumeric keys?? Come on, this is 2003!!

skunk

Jan 5, 2003, 09:54 AM

PS: Note the original poster's name!! Sounds right to me :D

e-coli

Jan 5, 2003, 09:58 AM

It has to be something that brings the "digital hub" strategy to maturity. Windows Media Center is making Apple's "digital hub" strategy look like a sham.

lmalave

Jan 5, 2003, 10:01 AM

Originally posted by rugby
I really don't see Apple as making a cellphone. They may collaborate with SE to add a lot of video technology to cellphones, but I really can't see them having enough cash to actually build plants and fab their own phones. That would be suicide.

Maybe they'll announce Nokia finally got off their asses and made syncML work over bluetooth on their phones. The ones that have bluetooth that is.:(

Whoever said that they would build their own plants? For a commodity product like this that stuff all gets outsourced to plants in East Asia. The exception would be companies like Intel that have propietary production processes that are so advanced that they really have no option except to build their own plants. I don't think a cell phone fits into that category, though - it's exactly the kind of electronic consumer product that a Taiwanese plant could easily crank out by the millions.

skunk

Jan 5, 2003, 10:02 AM

iVideoPhonePadPod:D

chrisfx811

Jan 5, 2003, 10:15 AM

iphone looks like a nokia 9290 communicator.
i will be happy with an apple branded browser that is fast like chimera. i just got my imac 800, and would like to enjoy a couple more months on top of the imac hill. that will probably not happen, but i am a simple user and really just want a full-featured, fast browser.
to all the iphone people: what service do you think apple would support. pretty much every provider in the u.s. uses different technology, thus requiring different guts on the inside. that is why you don't see nokia phones with sprint/verizon anymore. or samsung making any tdma models. and only motorola makes iden/nextel phones. nokia seems to be banking on gsm, samsung/sanyo/kyocera seems to mainly support cdma. (samsung makes a few gsm models) motorola is one of the few major players that has their hands in everyone's cookie jar... cdma/tdma/gsm/iden
i have no idea why i posted all this, because it is highly unlikely apple will put out an iphone anyway:confused:

lmalave

Jan 5, 2003, 10:20 AM

Originally posted by skunk
iVideoPhonePadPod:D

Right on!!! I'm a big advocate of the iPodPhoneCam. The big advantage I see Apple having is, once again, the built-in hard drive. That would allow a user to actually capture significant amounts of video. Being that it is Apple, I would expect the video quality to be suprisingly good, definitely adequate for the casual user. There are just so many marketing angles here. The iPod is already the best MP3 player and Apple could now start marketing it as a decent DV camera. Or as a camera phone like the new cell phones. If it sells for anything less than $1000 (ideally around $699), I think it'd be a big hit. I hope it really happens!

lmalave

Jan 5, 2003, 10:22 AM

Originally posted by chrisfx811
iphone looks like a nokia 9290 communicator.
i will be happy with an apple branded browser that is fast like chimera. i just got my imac 800, and would like to enjoy a couple more months on top of the imac hill. that will probably not happen, but i am a simple user and really just want a full-featured, fast browser.
to all the iphone people: what service do you think apple would support. pretty much every provider in the u.s. uses different technology, thus requiring different guts on the inside. that is why you don't see nokia phones with sprint/verizon anymore. or samsung making any tdma models. and only motorola makes iden/nextel phones. nokia seems to be banking on gsm, samsung/sanyo/kyocera seems to mainly support cdma. (samsung makes a few gsm models) motorola is one of the few major players that has their hands in everyone's cookie jar... cdma/tdma/gsm/iden
i have no idea why i posted all this, because it is highly unlikely apple will put out an iphone anyway:confused:

Well, for the U.S., Apple already has a partnership with Cingular. For Japan, Apple already has a partnership with DoCoMo.

nilepoc

Jan 5, 2003, 10:29 AM

That image is straight off of spymac.

Note the poor photoshoping in the area of the battery.

Try again.

HasanDaddy

Jan 5, 2003, 10:30 AM

Cingular sucks!

I'd be a lot happier if apple introed an iPhone for Sprint PCS.......then the iPhone will actually be able to receive calls!

Aeolius

Jan 5, 2003, 10:42 AM

Originally posted by HasanDaddy
Cingular sucks!

I'd be a lot happier if apple introed an iPhone for Sprint PCS.......then the iPhone will actually be able to receive calls!

I'll second that. I tried out a T68i from Cingular for a day and had to take it back. I got an unsteady signal in places between work and home, but nothing at all at work or home.

OutThere

Jan 5, 2003, 10:49 AM

I think that if Apple were to come out with a phone it would have to use a few different services to be popular, and that wouldn't really be feasible. I think that whatever is coming is going to be something truly amazing, apple might be using the displays as a bluff, does anyone know if they are expensive to make? if its is going to be something really awesome they are going to try and hide it really well, which they have done well so far, but by stocking the stores with displays it tells us instantly that they will be showing something small. I agree with a previous post-that it will be something to aid apple's digital hub strategy...but I gues we'll see:cool:

e-coli

Jan 5, 2003, 11:02 AM

Originally posted by HasanDaddy
I'd be a lot happier if apple introed an iPhone for Sprint PCS.......then the iPhone will actually be able to receive calls!

[buzzer sound] try again, pal. Sprint has the worst reception and coverage of any of the major players. read the reviews. they're under investigation for false advertising and fraud because their service is so bad.

in chicago, sprint will hardly even work. about 60% of the calls drop.

At&T rocks. it's expensive, but it always works.

rugby

Jan 5, 2003, 11:06 AM

Originally posted by Aeolius

I'll second that. I tried out a T68i from Cingular for a day and had to take it back. I got an unsteady signal in places between work and home, but nothing at all at work or home.

That would be because the T68i's rf is probably the worst amongst all phones out there, not because Cingular sucks. People go ga ga over this phone and get pissed off when they can't get reception anywhere. I hate it when I see this phone listed as the best phone in reviews, it means they didn't truly test it.

lmalave

Jan 5, 2003, 11:15 AM

Originally posted by e-coli

[buzzer sound] try again, pal. Sprint has the worst reception and coverage of any of the major players. read the reviews. they're under investigation for false advertising and fraud because their service is so bad.

in chicago, sprint will hardly even works. about 60% of the calls drop.

At&T rocks. it's expensive, but it always works.

Yeah, Verizon Wireless is good, at least in the Northeast. AT&T is actually a likely partner, though, since AT&T and Apple are both working with DoCoMo on 3G in the U.S. (Apple providing software, AT&T building network)

G4scott

Jan 5, 2003, 11:25 AM

Originally posted by utilizer
New products:

-From a friend out in CA: New iPod w/ bluetooth, w/ some capabilities of shooting pictures and some movies like the Sony Clie, hence the patent for the color screen on the device -- Brushed metal exterior (Now you know why the 5GB version isn't going anywhere! i.e., cost) -- 40% chance

Revised products:

-DVD player sometime this year -- Unsure whether this is the place to do it. If it is, then iDVD and iMovie will see major upgrades. If so, then no iPod upgrades
75% chance

-Airport, Rendezvous will make it's debut at Apple on this device; may have bluetooth integrated in it too but unsure at this point
90% chance

-Displays, affirmative -110% chance!

-iTunes: will be one of the highlights of the show, new visualizations that sync with the music being played; absolutely incredible - 110%

-Rumored bundle with iPhoto, iDVD, iMovie together is true (duh) - 299%

Next month on Feb. 12- 60%
PowerMacs, maybe delayed until WDCC: Quieter machines, running the 7457 @ 1 ghz at the low end up to 1.35 ghz or 1.4 ghz depending on supply on hand; Build-to-Order option of ATI 9700 pro, but with the new GeForce FX standard on these machines (the pro version of this card); Debut of Gigawire, NO USB 2.0; integrated Bluetooth -- Later featured in the portables -- New three-button mouse with scroll wheel and keyboard, Bluetooth

65%
iMacs, Feb. 12, possibly even before: Graphics card update, unsure at this point which one (ATI or nVidia), 1 ghz 7457 chip, 120 GB, 17 in. display on the high-end -- No surprises here

To me, most of this sounds good, except for the first part, but I might be wrong... You never know. Apple never really does the same thing twice... You think they're going to do one thing, like make a digital lifestyle device that is better than those that already exist (PDA, cell phone, etc.) but then they do something radically different. It's hard to tell what Apple's going to do next, which may be exciting for guys like us, but for the corporate type and stock people, it can be a nightmare :cool:

G4scott

Jan 5, 2003, 11:30 AM

Originally posted by HasanDaddy
Cingular sucks!

I'd be a lot happier if apple introed an iPhone for Sprint PCS.......then the iPhone will actually be able to receive calls!

I use cingular and it works just fine. My family has some family plan, so we can all call each other anytime for free. The coverage is great on my phone, and the antenna's knocked off! (of course, I don't think that the part that stuck out actually did anything...)

I can also call almost anywhere in Texas to my home area with no extra charges. Great for college. My brother has his phone, and can keep in touch with us at home.

My dad used sprint for a while, but dropped it because the calling areas weren't as big as cingular's, and he couldn't get reception in some places... Of course, in the building where he works, no cell phone calls get through, no matter what provider it is...

pyrotoaster

Jan 5, 2003, 12:09 PM

My best guess is that Apple "leaked" the info about the shipments to get people to goto their Apple Stores for the keynote, and I'd say it worked pretty well (I want to be there!).
The real question is what is in those shipments. Obviously, the boxes contain something being annnounced around half-way through the keynote. I'm thinking it's the new hardware SJ is going to announce. Either the iPod-like DLD that can play mp4 movies on its color screen, or an iPad tablet. Apple isn't going to make a phone (at least not yet), but Cingular is better than Sprint (Sprint offers 300 anytime minutes for $40, one lousy deal).
Sorry to get off topic there. Boxes either have DLD or Tablet. No iPhone.

zulgand04

Jan 5, 2003, 12:13 PM

who ever says spint is good, omg are u high or somthing. I had cinular great service but there phones suck. then whent to sprint cuz their phones are nice but if i wa inside, mall, house, school ect. no matter what phone i had from them no reseption, droped sprint. then got Verizon great service and the new Audiovox 9500 phone is awsome. What i am saying is true in the northeast, i dunno bout other parts of the country.

sorry for going off topic

Unixpunk

Jan 5, 2003, 12:32 PM

My girlfriend has sprint and she gets better reception with some string and a tin can

theringer

Jan 5, 2003, 12:32 PM

I think someone may have mentioned this already, but it seems to me that Apple would want to incorporate a Bluetooth antenna directly into its hardware. Having to plug an antenna into your USB port is decidely not the elegant use of technology we expect from Apple. So at the very least, I'd expect to see antennas built directly into PowerBook displays, and hopefully iBook displays as well.

A new Bluetooth-equipped iPod with a color screen would also be really cool, but then you'd have to charge it only from the wall outlet. It's not a problem, but it is kind of cool having it recharge itself while it's plugged into your Mac. Anyway, having just bought a 10GB iPod last October, I'd be bummed if a radically new model came out so soon.

dongmin

Jan 5, 2003, 12:44 PM

Originally posted by lmalave

The few financial analyst types who've gotten a sneak peek say it's going to blow everyone away.

Uh, can you give a link for this? Not that I believe anything financial analysts say but...

pyrotoaster

Jan 5, 2003, 12:46 PM

Originally posted by theriger
I think someone may have mentioned this already, but it seems to me that Apple would want to incorporate a Bluetooth antenna directly into its hardware. Having to plug an antenna into your USB port is decidely not the elegant use of technology we expect from Apple. So at the very least, I'd expect to see antennas built directly into PowerBook displays, and hopefully iBook displays as well.

A new Bluetooth-equipped iPod with a color screen would also be really cool, but then you'd have to charge it only from the wall outlet. It's not a problem, but it is kind of cool having it recharge itself while it's plugged into your Mac. Anyway, having just bought a 10GB iPod last October, I'd be bummed if a radically new model came out so soon.

Two things here:

1. Bluetooth would be an added feature for any device like the iPod. It would not replace Firewire. Not just because bluetooth is incredibly slow and best suited for transfering your iCal changes, but because doing so would force people without bluetooth capability to buy an adapter. But mainly because there's no way you're going to transfer your entire iTunes library over bluetooth.

2. It won't be called the iPod II or the color iPod. It'll have a name like iGizmo. The look of this device would have to be fundamentally different than that of the current iPod. A larger screen and possibly a more complex user interface would be critical.

rugby

Jan 5, 2003, 12:47 PM

Bluetooth in an iPod solely for the purpose of transferring data is beyond dumb. People bitch about usb ports and 11mbps theoretical throughput. Bluetooth has what, 1mbps? That's not enough for streaming anything that sounds good. What I can imagine is the firewire/IP software being released and the iPod being able to get an IP address and broadcast over an IP network to a rendezvous enabled thin client box that hooks to your stereo.

springscansing

Jan 5, 2003, 12:59 PM

springscansing

Jan 5, 2003, 01:06 PM

Originally posted by e-coli

[buzzer sound] try again, pal. Sprint has the worst reception and coverage of any of the major players. read the reviews. they're under investigation for false advertising and fraud because their service is so bad.

in chicago, sprint will hardly even work. about 60% of the calls drop.

At&T rocks. it's expensive, but it always works.

Hm.. where I like (crapville, NY), the ONLY service that works is Sprint PCS. I'm not calling you a liar... but it works perfectly here and verizon is crap. :-)

MacFan25

Jan 5, 2003, 01:15 PM

I think that each wireless phone service has it advantages and disadvantages. For me, Cingular has worked pretty well. But, I also know people who have Sprint and it works well too.

Gus

Jan 5, 2003, 01:16 PM

Once again, Arn has beaten me to it. I was thinking the acryllic displays were for a new AirPort, and then I reload the home page, and there he has changed it. I hope that's not it. How disappointing would that be?

I can't believe some of you bought that joke post about buying acryllic displays. Sheesh, don't get too carried away!

Regards,
Gus

GeneR

Jan 5, 2003, 01:22 PM

Have I been reading too many comic books?

Please forgive my train of thought but I have a few ideas and would love to get feedback on this...

If we step back and look at the direction of operating systems, it appears to me (novice that I am) that the original entire idea of computer systems are based on a mindset to create applications that would help simplify our lives. Hence we have had Microsoft Orifice and other apps and now Apple's iApps.

But our society doesn't seem to be getting easier because the more productivity tools have only been increasing the amount of work each of us is required to do. Consequently we are required to know more and do more.

But then we're back at square one (in a matter of speaking) because our lives are still more complicated. And we need to be able to organize our lives. Hence iApps helps.

But I am wondering: How can we still further simplify our lives? It seems to me that operating systems will have to devise pseudo-intelligent apps (like iApps) that will be the forerunner to artificual intelligence operation systems until we can figure out how to make our laptops and computers anticipate our wants and needs.

But is an A.I. Operating System really so far off? We have different parts of our society whom have created marketing systems based on A.I. to anticipate our buyers' shopping patterns with frightening accuracy . I saw a show a few years ago about an A.I. called "Soulmates" which seemed to confirm this fact. Customer service people in the U.K. seem to be using tis program to anticipate callers' desires. And it seems to be working.

Perhaps an A.I. is still far off, but maybe not. Maybe it's still worth keeping in mind. The idea of having a personal assistant on your laptop who would be able to retrieve news clippings from hundreds if not thousands of news sites online to help you with a term paper, or to simply learn about what's going on in the world seems to be really interesting. The same goes for movie reviews to other common research/fact gathering chores we do without questioning.

What if your Mac could do these things -- sort of like a dog fetching the morning paper (but from 100 different websites around the world?) Or generate a report about the buying and selling trends on Wall Street while you're away from the office?

Or maybe monitor your house security while you're away? Or even monitor your children while they are playing in the backyard if they're very young and straying too far from to the deep end of the pool?

Or maybe research your corporation's competitors, their business partners, etc.

Anyway, please let me know what you think. Thanks!

:)

pkradd

Jan 5, 2003, 01:22 PM

Apple Stores will be showing the keynote (at least those that have the big screen in the back). It is also being Quicktime webcast (if you don't mind getting jerky images if you have a modem connection). Keynote begins sometime after 9 AM PST (it usually doesn't start on time).

G4scott

Jan 5, 2003, 01:33 PM

You do make a good point GeneR. Computers are getting more and more complicated, and aren't doing anything much to help simplify our lives. While the Macintosh is much easier to use, and more friendly than any other OS, it still leaves a lot to be desired from that perspective.

Maybe this new device fits in your pocket, and reads your mind, so it can conform your computer to your lifestyle. Who knows.

Oh, and as for this new device, I'm mostly sure that it's not a PDA, cell phone, video-iPod (or whatever you want to call it), or almost anything else suggested here on these boards. Remember when Apple released the iPod. Everybody thought it was going to be something or another, but it ended up just being a MP3 player (and a darn good one at that...)

Just my 2¢

djniche

Jan 5, 2003, 01:41 PM

whatever new products we get we should be happy.

I can see apple coming out with an Ipad to compete with microsoft screen pad computers. Let's remember also that we do need an upgrade on the flat screens. I'm hoping a 19" priced at around 1600 or less.

As for the iphone.. I think this is doubtful there are those two products i mention before that seems more important to be upgraded. But as far as apple's digital hub i think it will be filled this way...

Ipod - itunes
Iphoto - an apple branded digital camera
Imovie - a hardware device for movie editing?

sketch22

Jan 5, 2003, 02:17 PM

I think GeneR's comments on AI aren't so far off with Apple. Look at the mail app and its use of the junk mail filter and the iTunes app and its abilities of remember your favorite played songs and the use of smart lists. These are all technologies that learn the users habits and adapt to those habits. Apple is definatly experimenting with AI I'm sure of it.

On a side note. Not sure if this is a significant observation but... while at the apple store near st louis i was looking to buy a wacom tablet and they were out of stock. they had one on display but none for sale.

-sketch

pyrotoaster

Jan 5, 2003, 02:24 PM

Originally posted by G4Scott
Oh, and as for this new device, I'm mostly sure that it's not a PDA, cell phone, video-iPod (or whatever you want to call it), or almost anything else suggested here on these boards. Remember when Apple released the iPod. Everybody thought it was going to be something or another, but it ended up just being a MP3 player (and a darn good one at that...)

What do you think it is?
I'm predicting (really just speculating) an iPod-cousin DLD. Something that plays mp3 and mp4 with a color screen (like the so-called iPod II), but with a unique name.
I'd really like to know what you think, the more ideas, the better!

8trackmac

Jan 5, 2003, 02:40 PM

Originally posted by rugby
What I can imagine is the firewire/IP software being released and the iPod being able to get an IP address and broadcast over an IP network to a rendezvous enabled thin client box that hooks to your stereo.

the most conceivalble prediction yet, in my opinion...

altough, the mention of the A.I. interface make me want one, NOW! (i hope it will be compatible with my soon-to-me-dated-1ghz-superdrive-powerbook);)

btw, i heard sprint phones don't opperate the same as other phones, less radiation on the brain, all digital...

christof

Jan 5, 2003, 02:40 PM

Reading about cellular carriers on this forum is pretty interesting... Here's my two cents, after having tried most of the cellular carriers in California except for Nextel...

From my experience, Cingular really sucks in California. While they have some cool handsets, it should always be set practice that one chooses a carrier before choosing a service plan or handset. I've found many system busy, calls not going through... While coverage may be there, in most locations, service cannot be delivered. And now that T-Mobile is piggybacking on Cingular's network--mind you that T-Mobile gives it customers hundreds/thousands of anytime minutes--the Cingular network is probably congested 24x7, with Cingular customers taking up the evenings with unlimited nights and weekends.

AT&T's TDMA network is great in terms of coverage; however, the technology is aging and is not capable of delivering high-speed 3gish applications to the masses. That is why we now see AT&T moving toward GSM/GPRS, built from the ground up. I hope that their network, with the backing of NTT DoCoMo, grows to become larger/better than the Cingular network in California. And, I also hope that AT&T will be able to deliver the WCDMA network they're "promising" in 2005.

Regarding the two CDMA carriers in California, Verizon and Sprint, the technology has been stellar (for both) and the coverage improving (for Sprint). CDMA sounds better and the upgrade path to 3g has created higher-speed connections--typically 20kbps faster than the comprable GPRS technology.

In terms of service plans, Sprint, while not delivering tons of minutes like T-Mobile or Cingular, has delivered tons of data. The Sprint Free & Clear plans with Vision start a $40/month, with 300 anytime, unlimited nights and weekends, and unlimited PCS Vision. There is no other carrier who has been able to deliver such product. In fact, it can be said that Cingular/T-Mobile are unable to deliver such product because none exists. The network is there, but compelling applications and service have yet to make an appearance.

Yes, Sprint service can be spotty in many areas, but for Apple, a product that is data-capable, cool, and upper-tier should be deployed on Sprint. While it makes sense to deliver the product on GPS/GPRS (which I do expect them to do, if they release some type of cell phone), I would hope that Apple understands the merits of CDMA/1xRTT over GSM/GPRS, the efforts of the CDMA/1xRTT carriers (to go straight to CDMA2000) over the GSM/GPRS carriers (who want to take the cheap way to WCDMA by going to EDGE), and the compelling services that the CDMA/1xRTT carriers are delivering: Verizon's Express Network (designed mostly for Businesses, IMHO) and Sprint PCS's PCS Vision.

Here's to a great Macworld, with some type of revolutionary product that we never imagined!!!

TMay

Jan 5, 2003, 02:46 PM

I'm hijacking this sig for a few moments. My apologies.

I'm deep undercover at Infinity Loop. I'm part of the underground AppleTalk network. We use mac 512's running Forth integrated with Imagewriter II's to communicate over the power grid at baud rates so low as to appear as noise to anyone not looking. We can't use the internet because it's not secure enough, but I'm passing this information on at great danger in the hope that I might save a few of you from certain peril.

I have ultrasecret information that these displays are the new Reality Distortion Field transducers. Yes! The rumors are absolutely true! Need more confirmation? I have the engineering data, plans and drawings that show, indeed prove, that Apple was secretly involved in the Moscone Center design. Oh, you say! What clever engineering to support the roof, but the structure looks so confining.

Those roof structures are antennae for the distortion field!

With hardly a blip on your radar screens Apple has now reduced these RDF transducers to the size of these acrylic displays. Brilliant work yes, but it was the development of the iPod that made this possible. iPod is the bait! Yes, it's true, with the iPod as an attractant, the field area can be made very small, small enough to function from the display.

Need more proof? Apple is closing down the whole Macworld Show "circuit", going to more frequent regional shows and of course, Apple store events. Why else would this occur unless Apple had developed a more sophisticated RDF?

I witnessed this myself. The only way I got out of the test area intact was that I had previously wrapped myself with alternating layers of plastic wrap and aluminum foil, which created a shield. If you go into the store, take these precautions, and DO NOT forget the stainless steel spaghetti strainer on your head. I myself wore a lot of Carhart workclothes to cover it up, and it was extremely hot in this outfit, so drink lots of fluids.

I have only one more thing to say. Apple, in conjunction with top universities, have a nanotechnology project to incorporate RDF functionality either on a chip or as a core. I would be pretty sure that this will end up on an airport card, so make sure that you test thoroughly, with protection as described above.

As an aside, it is not only ethical but obligatory for test subjects to be PC/windows users. These give the best results by far, not unlike the proverbial canary in a coal mine.

Got to go now. My power company may be onto me.

Formula 409

deepkid

Jan 5, 2003, 02:49 PM

Originally posted by e-coli
[buzzer sound]
in chicago, sprint will hardly even work. about 60% of the calls drop. At&T rocks. it's expensive, but it always works.

I was with At&T Wireless for a year, then switched to Sprint PCS in May of 2002 (Chicago). I experienced more dropped calls with Sprint in the first month of service than I had with AT&T the whole year.

As an investor, I hope that Apple DOES NOT partner with Sprint PCS becuase the telco's service is ANYTHING BUT free and clear. They forced their customers onto a discombobulated webpage that's never updated in a timely fashion and crashes too often. I think their web customer service team is in India. Add insult to injury by charging $3/call for help with their defective product.

Anyway, let's hope that Apple DOES NOT plan to out a phone. It's a bloody market to enter and doesn't show as much promise as the mp3 market did at the time the iPod was introduced.

It would be nice to add a small cam to the front of the iPod, audio input (auto encode into MPEG-4) and color screen. (black n white mode optional to save battery life)

Timothy

Jan 5, 2003, 02:51 PM

Do you guys realize how small a device would need to be to be adequately displayed in a 6" acrylic display? As I recall, the iPod acryllic display is about 12" tall, with enough room on it to tout features and inset the iPod.

So, I don't think we're looking at any new iPod-type device...

My guess? How about a Firewire-based microphone addition for the iPod? Or, some firewire plug-in that increased funtionality of the iPod...

But, if we are basing our speculation on the size of the acrylic display, this item would have to be very small...about the size of the bluetooth adaptor...

Timothy

Jan 5, 2003, 02:53 PM

BTW, all of this discussion about the various differing mobile phone services is exactly why Apple would never enter this market. The Apple market is already miniscule, fracture that among competing mobile companies and the market for an Apple-based phone is tiny! There is no chance of it...

Tom800

Jan 5, 2003, 03:12 PM

1. Apple will never be a phone company: that's why there are phone companies, because it's so specialised and complex. Also the beauty of phones is you get them free, then a free replacement when they get smashed - only fees are service. A video/internet/camera/pda phone is a nonsense for all but 007 and the insane mobile phone freaks.

2. The name iPod is generic, not music-related. I predict (you heard it here first!) that it is the name for a kind of sub-platform within Apple called iPod, much the way Vaio is for sony. Hence we will see a range of devices: iPod Music, iPod Video, iPod Photo, iPod Subnotebook, iPod PDA, iPod Treo, etc. My point, based on its generic name and its propriety OS/navigation system, is that iPod is a PLATFORM, not a one-off device.

3. People who find using a Mac complicates rather than simplifies their life should just fix up their life. This talk about AI is BS - the mail thing is a filter; just because it addresses the user as "mail thinks these are junk" doesn't make it "intelligent" in any way that hasn't existed (though not in the apple mail app) for 20 years already.

4. On a completely unrelated note, I see Maxis has dropped the Mac for SimCity 4, due soon for PC only. This is a sad end for the originally Mac-only game; moreso, as now in this iteration it looks better than ever and potentially a huge hit on the scale of The Sims. Not that I'd play it much, if at all, but why the defection from the Mac in these good times, when it stuck out the nineties?

Answers on a postcard...

christof

Jan 5, 2003, 03:18 PM

Originally posted by deepkid
As an investor, I hope that Apple DOES NOT partner with Sprint PCS becuase the telco's service is ANYTHING BUT free and clear. They forced their customers onto a discombobulated webpage that's never updated in a timely fashion and crashes too often. I think their web customer service team is in India. Add insult to injury by charging $3/call for help with their defective product.

Anyway, let's hope that Apple DOES NOT plan to out a phone. It's a bloody market to enter and doesn't show as much promise as the mp3 market did at the time the iPod was introduced.

Agreed... As an Apple shareholder, as well. It would be a very difficult market to enter: the cell phone handset industry. However, I believe that Apple can deliver compelling products to the space, and it seems as if our favorite CEO has spoken in favor of such market.

I've read much on howardforums, wirelessadvisor, and alt.cellular.sprintpcs about coverage troubles in the Windy City. However, as I mentioned in my previous post regarding AT&T... One would expect AT&T to have stellar coverage with its aging TDMA network. Coverage is wonderful in San Francisco, and I have no complaints about its voice services. However, if one wanted rich data services (3gish) or even location based services, there are only a few carriers who can deliver such products to market today: Verizon and Sprint. Both of these carriers lead in bringing "3g" wireless services to the United States, leaving AT&T and Cingular/T-Mobile behind. AT&T has only recently started to roll out its GSM/GPRS network and hopes to bring WCDMA to a few markets in 2005 (I hope they succeed, as I am an AWE shareholder as well). Cingular/T-Mobile have yet to deliver great "3g" services--they've only been pushing minute plans to the edge and pushing thousands of minutes only goes so far and will start eating away at revenues.

Verizon is the largest carrier in the USA with a stellar network. Everywhere I've been (from the rural areas between Las Vegas, Hoover Dam, and the Grand Canyon, the coast line along California (from the SF Bay to San Diego), and the rural areas in Santa Cruz county and mountains), my Verizon phone has worked. They also have "3g" services and have been pushing its Get It Now! service greatly.

Sprint PCS is the fastest growing wireless carrier. While service isn't as great as Verizon or AT&T, Sprint works where I need it. They also have great handsets and rate plans that no one has yet matched. The "3g" services are there, the coverage is improving, and its location-based services technology is ahead of anyone elses (Cingular recently announced that it switched location technologies and is starting all over).

Agreed... Yes, I see revenues from wireless service plans dwindling; however, "3g" application services will increase and will create revenue streams for wireless carriers. Additionally, there is a greatly needed space to fill: to create not only compelling applications for "3g," but also compelling technologies/handsets for use on these networks.

While it may be a daunting task for Apple to enter such a market, I believe that they can reap the benefits if they enter. Nokia, the world's largest cell phone manufacturer has yet to deliver products that captivate the audiences of "3g." They have only delivered tiny candy-bar handsets with tiny color screens and a camera. Sanyo, winner of the first JD Power and Associates cell phone maker award, has created some great handsets, but have yet to deliver a handset that breaks from normal tradition, capitalizing on "3g." The Sony Ericsson partnership has been stalling, and while their handsets are great (as Steve has seen), Apple can do better.

Steve has spoken already about the death of the PDA and its morphing into the cell phone. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple released a handset, and I wouldn't be surprised if they released it for GPS/GPRS networks. (I hope they release one for CDMA networks as well.)

With iCal, iTunes, iPhoto, iMovie, MPEG-4/Quicktime, iSync, .Mac... I believe that all of these pieces, Steve's suggestions about PDA's, and looking back at the Digital Lifestyle Device "matrix" shown a previous Macworlds, there really is only 1 product that Apple can create that will fit into this mix. It isn't a PDA, it isn't an even larger iPod, it isn't a digital photo frame, it isn't a TV or watch or sunglasses with a heads up display... It's a cell phone that doubles as all of these devices (except for the sunglasses) and does more.

I only hope that Apple makes a very good decision in regard to which network(s) it decides to deploy the device on... I only hope that Apple partners with some good companies: KDDIau/NTT DoCoMo (in Japan), T-Mobile/Orange (in Europe), Sprint PCS/Verizon/Cingular/AT&T (in the USA).

Frobozz

Jan 5, 2003, 03:23 PM

Originally posted by HasanDaddy
Cingular sucks!

I'd be a lot happier if apple introed an iPhone for Sprint PCS.......then the iPhone will actually be able to receive calls!

Amen, brotha.

pyrotoaster

Jan 5, 2003, 03:25 PM

Originally posted by Tom800
Apple will never be a phone company
and
The name iPod is generic, not music-related. I predict (you heard it here first!) that it is the name for a kind of sub-platform within Apple called iPod, much the way Vaio is for sony. Hence we will see a range of devices: iPod Music, iPod Video, iPod Photo, iPod Subnotebook, iPod PDA, iPod Treo, etc. My point, based on its generic name and its propriety OS/navigation system, is that iPod is a PLATFORM, not a one-off device.

I think you're totally right about Apple not entering the phone market.
What I really liked is your thoughts about the name iPod. I think you good really be on to something there. Everytime I thought about the possibility of a new iDLD, the only name that seemed to fit was iPod (I didn't put much effort into thinking of another name, though).

bdkennedy1

Jan 5, 2003, 03:31 PM

Originally posted by Timothy
Do you guys realize how small a device would need to be to be adequately displayed in a 6" acrylic display? As I recall, the iPod acryllic display is about 12" tall, with enough room on it to tout features and inset the iPod.

So, I don't think we're looking at any new iPod-type device...

My guess? How about a Firewire-based microphone addition for the iPod? Or, some firewire plug-in that increased funtionality of the iPod...

But, if we are basing our speculation on the size of the acrylic display, this item would have to be very small...about the size of the bluetooth adaptor...

Considering how small hard drives have become, it wouldn't surprise me if the new iPod would be half the size it is now.

pyrotoaster

Jan 5, 2003, 03:37 PM

Originally posted by bryank1

Considering how small hard drives have become, it wouldn't surprise me if the new iPod would be half the size it is now.

And have the scroll wheel on top of the screen? :confused:

mangoman

Jan 5, 2003, 03:39 PM

Sheesh...all things said (no less considered!), I'm really stoked for Tuesday. Gotta convince my boss that watching the streaming vid is "research".

Good stuff, all. Keep that crazy speculation comin'.

Frobozz

Jan 5, 2003, 03:41 PM

Folks, everyone seems to have an opinion that one provider is better than another because they've had a phone or two. One was bad, one was good, so one carrier is great and the other sucks. I hate to get off topic of this thread, but you need to stop thinking that way... my god! It doesn't make any sense. Here's the reality:

1) Every provider has to use their own network, with minor exceptions like overseas. If their antennas are better, you will receive a stronger signal. This is localized, not national. One city could be great, and another awful on the same service.

2) The particular phone you are using has different antenna circuitry that the others. Each one is a little different and some do better underground, above ground, etc. Some just get better reception. Again, has nothing to do with the service, as one phone that sucks in Chicago may be good in New York.

3) Geography. Anything will work in flat areas without power interference, etc. So, people that state it works great in Texas (not knocking texas!) are not taking into account the problems of service in a place like New York City or other Northeast city. They have hills, tall buildings packed in closely, and massive concentrations of interference.

For me, Sprint PCS is better than it's competitors in NYC... and I will quantify that. Sprint has a digital signal, I have a phone with a great antenna, and the distances between towers are short. I've travelled with this phone to Las Vegas and to Fort Lauderdale and has zero problems with reception. I pay the same as if I was home, and I get 4,000 minutes for $40 bucks. For me, it's ideal. I know some guys who went with T-Mobile/Voicestream and say it's much improved over the past 2 years. Cingular is pretty bad in NYC for most of their phones.

Bear

Jan 5, 2003, 03:48 PM

Originally posted by Tom800
[B]4. On a completely unrelated note, I see Maxis has dropped the Mac for SimCity 4, due soon for PC only. This is a sad end for the originally Mac-only game; moreso, as now in this iteration it looks better than ever and potentially a huge hit on the scale of The Sims. Not that I'd play it much, if at all, but why the defection from the Mac in these good times, when it stuck out the nineties?/B]

Actually, as I recall, SimCity was out for the Amiga either at the same time as the Mac or a little before. Some of the Games people remember as Mac only were actually Amiga & Mac games or Amiga first games.

Tom800

Jan 5, 2003, 03:58 PM

Yeah I think you may be right concerning the origins of Sim City. But take a look at the new version (www.maxis.com): was anything ever made for OS X if not that? The navigation system even looks and acts like the Dock, with transparency, magnification, bouncing, etc. The work that must have taken to function at all on Windoze...

medea

Jan 5, 2003, 04:48 PM

Originally posted by Frobozz

Amen, brotha.
Actually in my area Sprint (both celluar and regular) sucks and Cingular is one of the best providers, it all varies from area to area, that's why it would be very hard for Apple to release a phone becuase it would have to be compatible with all the major service providers....I'm starting to think that if Apple has anything to do with integrating cellphones and macs it will be on the software side and not the hardware.

dguisinger

Jan 5, 2003, 05:03 PM

There are actually chips (it was a huge breakthrough a year ago) that work with all major phone providers........so it technically could be done.

Here is another thought. How about a Bluetooth watch? Syncronize your addressbook and schedule to it (automatic alarms anyone?). I had one of the Timex/Motorola pager watches 4 years ago and they were great....I'd page myself messages that I would use on tests at school :) Heck, Apple could even get it from Motorola, and leave the pager in...things certainly are smaller and more energy efficient than 4 years ago as well. And there are MP3 watches available right now......sure they aren't 4,000 songs in your pocket.......but what if they had the ability to take notes by pressing in a button on the watch and speaking?

Obviously I have no inside knowlege.....I just know that all of these things are possible based on where we are today, and what has been done in the past.

But that would easily fit in a 6" display case......

arnette

Jan 5, 2003, 05:06 PM

Originally posted by Frobozz
3) Geography. Anything will work in flat areas without power interference, etc. So, people that state it works great in Texas (not knocking texas!) are not taking into account the problems of service in a place like New York City or other Northeast city. They have hills, tall buildings packed in closely, and massive concentrations of interference.

Yep, when I mosey on down to the town with a population of 230, hitch my horse up to the post, swagger into the saloon for a whiskey, I do notice that my phone reception goes down quite a bit. I get much better signals when I'm out on the prairie. ;)

I know what you mean, but we DO have cities, you know. In fact.. Houston is rated US's fattest city by Men's Health. Maybe THAT'S all the interference you've been talking about.:D

medea

Jan 5, 2003, 05:11 PM

Originally posted by dguisinger
There are actually chips (it was a huge breakthrough a year ago) that work with all major phone providers........so it technically could be done.

Here is another thought. How about a Bluetooth watch? Syncronize your addressbook and schedule to it (automatic alarms anyone?). I had one of the Timex/Motorola pager watches 4 years ago and they were great....I'd page myself messages that I would use on tests at school :) Heck, Apple could even get it from Motorola, and leave the pager in...things certainly are smaller and more energy efficient than 4 years ago as well. And there are MP3 watches available right now......sure they aren't 4,000 songs in your pocket.......but what if they had the ability to take notes by pressing in a button on the watch and speaking?

Obviously I have no inside knowlege.....I just know that all of these things are possible based on where we are today, and what has been done in the past.

But that would easily fit in a 6" display case......
Yeah but the only problem with an Apple multi-function watch is, only dorks would buy/wear one.....no offence ok, but not only do I love the way my mac works it's also rather stylish, and pda/pager watches are not.

dguisinger

Jan 5, 2003, 05:21 PM

Originally posted by medea

Yeah but the only problem with an Apple multi-function watch is, only dorks would buy/wear one.....no offence ok, but not only do I love the way my mac works it's also rather stylish, and pda/pager watches are not.

Only dorks huh? I'm actually considering picking up a new watch from Timex so that I can receive text pages without needing my phone on me. Its a hell of a lot smaller, and harder to leave behind, and works great when you are in the tech industry and need to be in-the-know when something goes down.

The problem is you don't have much vision on use.......nor the fact that Apple of all companies could make one stylish. And you ignore the fact that at one time Timex did make an executive style version of the watch with a normal metalic wrist band.

Do you seriously think it is stylish for hold a object the size of a brick up against your head?? Guess that rules iPhone out. Walkman's aren't stylish, yet iPod is in that form factor.

Me, my goal is a life where the technology one has for mobile use is as unseen as possible. A well done watch using those technologies would work well in a business world. Timex seems to do well with them, they still have several models for sale today....5 years after conception. Addition of bluetooth and providing a place to view contacts & appointments (NOT make them, since it would be hard as hell) would be a much better solution than store them on a large clunky iPod......which no business person would want to carry around in the first place.....either putting the information on their phone, or on their watch is the most practical. And in complete honesty, I can't tell you how many times I've been without my phone when I wished I had someone's number on me that was stored on it.

rjrufo

Jan 5, 2003, 05:51 PM

Hmm... could the acrylic displays be part of the Dynamic Ornamental Appearance thing?

sanford

Jan 5, 2003, 06:04 PM

Originally posted by GeneR
Have I been reading too many comic books?
:)

Yeah, you've probably been reading too many comic books. BUT, you have a significant point about simplifying devices creating complexity. I'm not really sure where we're headed with all this; perhaps only deeper into the land of mass consumerism.

I'm a writer, yet my desk looks like a world domination console. I have a G4 Quicksilver with 17" Apple LCD Studio display. A 5GB iPod, and a 10GB iPod, because I have a rather large music collection -- 500+ CDs -- and 5GB wasn't, for some reason, enough to carry around a representative selection. I used to work as a writer for the game industry, and still try some freelance in that area, so I have a giant Alienware PC with its own LCD display. Then a Sony Clie NR70, because the high-resolution color screen was so attractive. Later, when the price dropped, I switched to a Palm i705 because I thought that wireless e-mail and internet reference was possibly more important. Everything is plugged into a Yamaha Cavit USB amplifier and speakers.

On the mobile side, I have a 12" dual USB iBook, and a combo-drive TiBook, now my principal portable. We have Airport in the house and a digital camera.

And of course I have a cell phone, even though I hate talking on the phone.

This is all to support a profession that can be adequately executed with a pen and notebook. I have to put up with software upgrades on at least 2 computers, recharges for all the mobile gear, document parity on 2 computers, extended warranties for TiBook and G4, 3 dozen different sets of user names and passwords for various things, fan noise from the G4 when I'm not playing music, ahhhh!

This is not simple, yet simplicity is the reason I bought a Mac in the first place. The one item in all this I can't bear to part with is the digital music. Apple has me hooked with iTunes, my iPod and the ability to order and play my music, lots of it, wherever I am. My musical tastes are varied and eccentric; I hate radio. But now I have to have more than 20GB of storage on my computer to hold all this music.

Sorry, this is way off topic. But I think the original writer had a point buried in his speculation: what happened to the toaster Mac? The promise of simplicity? Apple's products are by far the most elegant, but my machines own me now and I want my desk back!

AndrewMT

Jan 5, 2003, 06:48 PM

I disagree with anyone who thinks that Apple can not and will not enter the cell phone market. I actually considered the mp3 market pretty crazy before Apple blew them all away with the iPod. You had multiple memory card formats, mp3 on cd, mp3 players with no expandable memory, and the early and very crappy hard drive players that could not fit in your pocket and only had usb 1.1. Apple just chose the best format.

It seems to me that Apple would support the best network (based on their own testing) for a possible phone that would have the ability to access the internet. An Apple phone that did not access the interent would be pointless since there are so many other phones that do that fine already. Like most cell phone providers, Apple's phone would only work on the best network (probably 3G, but who knows?) and therefor would only be sold to customers that are in the range of that network. Sure the network area may not be as big as some of the other crappier networks, but the people in Apple's choosen network would have great service on a great phone.

The danger hiptop (a.k.a T-Mobile Sidekick) was a great start, but had some fatal flaws. The greatest of which was the network the hiptop currently runs on. GSM is slow and unreliable. Lets not also forget the monocrhome screen with no onscreen touchpad for easy surfing.

If Apple releases a phone with the following features, it should do as well as the ipod in it's area:

1. Phone runs on reliable, fast network. Apple tested for approval.
2. Phone can access internet and aim.
3. Phone has a reasonable sized color screen (to small a screen limits the phone's ability to surf web pages).
4. Phone has a QWERTY keyboard (needed for fast surfing and aim). No add-on keyboard, please.
5. The phone demonstarates Apple's famous design and ease-of-use.

I would buy one. Wouldn't you?

jamesnp

Jan 5, 2003, 06:54 PM

I have got school on Tuesday.... here's what I'm going to do... :)

I'm first of all going to buy €20 of call credit for my mobile.... then I'm going to connect in between every class and check what's out. If it's good I will place my order on the Apple Store straight away!!!

-James

iJon

Jan 5, 2003, 06:56 PM

Originally posted by jamesnp
I have got school on Tuesday.... here's what I'm going to do... :)

I'm first of all going to buy €20 of call credit for my mobile.... then I'm going to connect in between every class and check what's out. If it's good I will place my order on the Apple Store straight away!!!

-James
haha great idea. luckily for me a have a pointless class and lunch during macworld. so all i gotta do is take my laptop, hook it up to the schoool network (which the hate me doing) and watch it. i am so excited. then i get to come and watch signs.

iJon

GeneR

Jan 5, 2003, 07:02 PM

Originally posted by sanford

Yeah, you've probably been reading too many comic books. BUT, you have a significant point about simplifying devices creating complexity. I'm not really sure where we're headed with all this; perhaps only deeper into the land of mass consumerism.

I'm a writer, yet my desk looks like a world domination console...

Sorry, this is way off topic. But I think the original writer had a point buried in his speculation: what happened to the toaster Mac? The promise of simplicity? Apple's products are by far the most elegant, but my machines own me now and I want my desk back!

Thanks for your opinion. Thanks too to the guy who says A.I. is B.S. Maybe it is. Maybe it isn't. I don't know. That's why I posted in the first place: to hear and learn from others. What impresses me about this site is the fact that most of the people here (I am saying 'most' because I haven't read that many of the comments) seem to come from differing backgrounds representing some very smart, creative and informed thinkers.

That fact alone is exciting to me.

But I still believe that making life simple is still the magic ace up Steve Job's sleeve. We may not remember the importance of what it means to keep things simple because of the clutter of devices and programs and upgrades, etc.

But whenever Jobs seems to turn on his reality distortion field it seems (to me at least) to bring us back to that old idea of productivity and simplicity. And hence, my question about A.I.

I think the preoccupation that we all face here with computers is the same preoccupation we have faced about any other new and complicated toy/game/tool: we are stimulated and at the same time burdened by the responsibilities that come with playing with/using it. And as a result, most people today may have lost the big picture that computers were suppose to help us go about our day-to-day chores and life. Not the other way around.

Hence, the lamp design for the iMac. And hence the simple organic designs of its predecessors, the eMacs, the simple elegant design of the Ti Book and iBooks. Their design communicates both function as well as the simplicity that I believe we all crave on some level.

Maybe someone at sourceforge will make such an A.I. application? I don't know. I'm just trying to keep my life as simple as possible.

Well, I said my piece. I really appreciate the feedback. I guess we'll all have to wait and see at MWSF in two days. Thanks, again!

:)

pyrotoaster

Jan 5, 2003, 07:05 PM

I read something about watches, and couldn't help but bring up the old Apple watch story.
Apple lincensed a company to make watches with the Apple logo for trade shows (specifically Macworld) year ago.
One expo, shortly after SJ had taken the helm at Apple (after the release of the iMac, though), the Great Job-ness himself saw some of these watches and shot an intern. Just kidding! He was so underimpressed by the watches, however, that he killed the deal.
I doubt we'll see any kind of wrist-ware with the Apple logo so long at SJ is in charge.

mangoman

Jan 5, 2003, 07:06 PM

IF those are the same watches I saw, they WERE butt ugly. Woof.

dguisinger

Jan 5, 2003, 07:11 PM

Originally posted by pyrotoaster
I read something about watches, and couldn't help but bring up the old Apple watch story.
Apple lincensed a company to make watches with the Apple logo for trade shows (specifically Macworld) year ago.
One expo, shortly after SJ had taken the helm at Apple (after the release of the iMac, though), the Great Job-ness himself saw some of these watches and shot an intern. Just kidding! He was so underimpressed by the watches, however, that he killed the deal.
I doubt we'll see any kind of wrist-ware with the Apple logo so long at SJ is in charge.

Yeah, but I'm not talking about taking a stock watch with an apple logo......the iPod isn't a stock device. Just throwing out ideas of something that can fit in a 6" display, and atleast in my world would have usefulness... There are just times you dont want the bulk of a PDA or phone.........but could use something like contact and appointments on you.....

Frobozz

Jan 5, 2003, 07:20 PM

Originally posted by arnette

we DO have cities, you know.

No, I'm sorry. I just don't believe you. :-)

Actually, a couple friends of mine lived outside of Austin... way, outside.

GeneR

Jan 5, 2003, 07:23 PM

Originally posted by TMay
I'm hijacking this sig for a few moments. My apologies.

I'm deep undercover at Infinity Loop. I'm part of the underground AppleTalk network. We use mac 512's running Forth integrated with Imagewriter II's to communicate over the power grid at baud rates so low as to appear as noise to anyone not looking.

I have ultrasecret information that these displays are the new Reality Distortion Field transducers. Yes! The rumors are absolutely true! Need more confirmation? I have the engineering data, plans and drawings that show, indeed prove, that Apple was secretly involved in the Moscone Center design. Oh, you say! What clever engineering to support the roof, but the structure looks so confining.

Those roof structures are antennae for the distortion field!

...The only way I got out of the test area intact was that I had previously wrapped myself with alternating layers of plastic wrap and aluminum foil, which created a shield. If you go into the store, take these precautions, and DO NOT forget the stainless steel spaghetti strainer on your head. I myself wore a lot of Carhart workclothes to cover it up, and it was extremely hot in this outfit, so drink lots of fluids.

As an aside, it is not only ethical but obligatory for test subjects to be PC/windows users. These give the best results by far, not unlike the proverbial canary in a coal mine.

Got to go now. My power company may be onto me.

Formula 409

I must be in the wrong line of work. TMay is far more creative than I am. Although, TMay does make several good points.... I have found that a good spaghetti strainer applied to the head while whistling high pitched dolphin sounds does magically connect you to your computer. It can even be used whenever you mistplace your garage door opener. Oh, sorry. Did I say that out loud?

Well, 'nuff said. Thanks for the input! :D

ibjoshua

Jan 5, 2003, 07:24 PM

Originally posted by rjrufo
Hmm... could the acrylic displays be part of the Dynamic Ornamental Appearance thing?

That was my first thought too.

i_b_joshua

pyrotoaster

Jan 5, 2003, 07:30 PM

I still think that the Dynamic Ornamental Appearance concept would be really cool on a new iBook (I don't think there will be new iBooks on Tuesday, though).

Tom800

Jan 5, 2003, 07:46 PM

No prob, GeneR, but let me explain myself a little further, because it's an interesting point.

Technology is not going to go away, unless you escape it as some people choose to. So unless you want to and can re-create some kind of agrarian lifestyle from a pre-tech age, it's something you have to deal with. As you say it should be as simple as possible, so that ideally (as Steve Jobs has said) the computer essentially vanishes and you work 'thought-to-result' style. I disagree with you, however, that AI is the solution to tech complexity. Clarity of design and mimicking of real life, however, I agree, are routes to simplicity.

An example. Before iTunes you had your CDs, even 500 as a previous poster and myself, and life was simple enough because the options were limited. Then there was early technology, and lousy mp3 encoders came along that worked a single track with no CDDB information into an mp3 file and dumped it on the desktop as Track One etc. Apple ties up the advances in a manner that is simplified and natural, and thus simplicity is restored to the process of listening to music. Any further troubles are probably the user's fault.

Computers work fine as a tool in this way, when they are as simple and intuitive to use as possible, and for this reason Apple makes the best computers. (I'd say the physical lines of the old iMacs, and to a lesser extent the swivel neck of the new FP one are not for the sake of simplicity at all, but simply 'part of the mac look and feel' which makes apple money, but then I'm an old cynic...)

So what I'm saying essentially is that the computer needs to be eliminated in the 'thought/results' equation, and I believe that great design in the original mind-set of computer-as-tool is the best way to achieve this, and not, as you pondered, through some non-existent never-never realm of AI which is bound, other than in the comics, to be clunky and get in the way.

These are crazy ponderences when Macworld is within 30 or so hours of us...

Finally, "iPad" sounds like a tampon.

pyrotoaster

Jan 5, 2003, 07:52 PM

I just wanted to make a few points about the rumor that says we're looking a color-screen iPods because iPod stocks are very low at all the Apple Stores.
That would be wrong. I was just at the Oakbrook Apple Store and they had plenty of iPods for the purchasing.
Also, Apple wouldn't just replace the whole iPod line with color-screen models. It would make them too expensive for some consumers who just want a quality mp3 player.
I think that if there is a color screen iPod. It'll be different then the iPod, and be treated like a totally new device. It could be in tablet form, or just larger than the current models. It will be different, though.

sanford

Jan 5, 2003, 08:03 PM

Originally posted by Tom800
So what I'm saying essentially is that the computer needs to be eliminated in the 'thought/results' equation, and I believe that great design in the original mind-set of computer-as-tool is the best way to achieve this...

This is what I think Apple pulled off in spades with the Mac/iTunes/iPod suite. A lot of devices and gadgets make me long for old, simple solutions to the same problems. But never do I think, I sure do prefer to go back to a CD player and stacks of discs, played one at a time, or at best, in a multi-disc changer. Listening to music is a low-profile, everyday experience that today we take for granted, but Apple has revolutionized that activity through elegance in both hardware and software design. Apple's vision for music listening is truly better than anything we've had before, not just cooler or more high-tech.

thegeek187

Jan 5, 2003, 09:06 PM

well, where i am from nextel gets very good reception and direct connect is amazing.....maybe somehow apple could include direct connect into "iphone"

pyrotoaster

Jan 5, 2003, 09:10 PM

Originally posted by thegeek187

well, where i am from nextel gets very good reception and direct connect is amazing.....maybe somehow apple could include direct connect into "iphone"

I don't think Apple will ever make an iPhone, in fact it would be one of their worst faliures. It would be making a niche product for niche market. And I'm sure it would cost too much.

kansaigaijin

Jan 5, 2003, 10:31 PM

you have got to be kidding me?

mobile phones have to the hottest market there is, worldwide and growing. Maybe it is just your primitive phones you have in the States? that makes you think it is a niche market.

I just spent a couple weeks shoppng for a phone and service provider here in Japan. There are 4 or 5 services and each has 7 or 8 phones to choose from. From the expensive NTT/DoCoMo FOMA 3G service (mobile media access) to the cheap and simple Tu-Ka (actually the coolest, simplest phone, 15mm thick folded and about 75grams) they are packed with features.

I settled on a J-phone/Vodaphone service and a Toshiba T08 handset. My wife liked it cause it has radiation levels half the average of the other units. Other than voice, e-mail and web services, it has a camera, (which is old here, everyone has it) and video, the latest thing. It will record a 3 minute movie, and has two screens, the big one shows 260,000 colours. it is comepletely bilingual, I can enter text in roman characters, or hiragana or kanji. But it doesn't have bluetooth or a way to link up to my computer, that was a necessary comprimise. AU/KDDI has that in its Sonyericson phones, but the plans/talktime too expensive. Everyone has a phone here and people are upgrading all the time. How many people would trade up on thier mp3 player?

Apple has great expertise in putting all this stuff together in the digital hub, and could design a great looking phone. Most existing phones are ugly. Manufacturing is outsourced, and so is the service end of things. It is just a matter of putting it all together and some good marketing.

kansaigaijin

Jan 5, 2003, 10:39 PM

a picture of my phone,

and don't you all agree that there are many more people out there with phones than mp3 players?http://www.j-phone.com/english/products/images/jt08_pic01.jpg

pyrotoaster

Jan 5, 2003, 10:57 PM

I never said mobile phones are a niche market.
I said there were two niches:

1. Mac users
2. Mac users willing to pay extra for an Apple phone.

I, like many others, fall into the top category, but not the bottom.
I'll bet my proverbial farm that there is no iPhone.

kansaigaijin

Jan 5, 2003, 11:37 PM

you said,

" It would be making a niche product for niche market. And I'm sure it would cost too much."

It would not be targeted at Mac users only. It would be another product competing in a large market. The iPod works with Windows and Mac, and has been hacked for Linux, so it works for anyone who wants one. So Apple branded products are not just for Mac users anymore, I think that is Apple's strategy. A feature packed Apple phone would be another iPod type trendy object to have, especially since it would actually have a function, such as making calls and syncing a iCal and Addressbook with the one on your computer.

But you are right, it may not be in the cards. But I think it would be successful. Really most of the posts about MWSF are pretty much wishful thinking and speculation, as Apple seems to have successfully clamped down on info leaks and rumour sites.

pyrotoaster

Jan 5, 2003, 11:42 PM

I agree that I was vague in my initial post about the iPhone. Sorry!

The problem about marketing it to everybody (Mac user or otherwise) is that Apple carries a stigma. A PC user wouldn't want to use an Apple phone. Trust me on this, I have PC using friends who wouldn't be caught dead with an Apple phone.
The iPod was Apple's first step into the consumer electronics market, and therefor, their first step into the PC market. It'll be a while before we have droves of PC people using Apple branded gizmos.

u2mr2os2

Jan 6, 2003, 01:05 AM

It probably won't be the DLD announced on the 7th, but wouldn't this be cool:

An audio component (perhaps co-developed with Philips) that allows you to dock (and charge) your iPod into your home theater system to enjoy your music. It could also provide video by generating visualizations as well as present the iPod's menu on-screen with a remote laid out like the iPod's controls. In other words, don't let some other MP3 device get used for people's home theater system. For people who don't want to get a Mac, they can stop there, but they would still be using an Apple product. Remember the future of Apple doesn't mean there has to be more Mac users - the iPod is proof of that.

Also, this device, with the simple addition of an Airport card, could get the music from iTunes on a Mac via Rendezvous. Of course, you could just use it this way, without an iPod if you want. If you had a Mac and an iPod, you'd probably want to firewire dock it anyway. Put a digital audio input connector on it, and you could rip from CD player to iPod, no Windows PC needed. No Mac PC either for those afraid of switching.

In that configuration, you'd also have the potential for a remote display for your Mac (esp. with 802.11g), or more specifically, certain apps. The first being iTunes. It would not be the actual desktop app window, but a "remote face" for the app designed for this purpose that works well. You see that iPhoto would be another good app for this. In fact, so would iChat, iCal. Get the picture? This box would actually be Mac inside. For Windows users, it could be made to hook up with the likes of Musicmatch, etc. over the 802.11, but wouldn't have the extra features (iPhoto, iCal, etc.) unless you got a Mac.

Somewhat related: How about Apple providing embedded versions of iMovie and iDVD inside a DV camera that you could use with your TV via bluetooth mouse and keyboard? Maybe these could be put into aforementioned box (given its firewire port) since it's a Mac inside anyway. Secret: people don't know they're buying a Mac - just a great audio/video editing system. They can continue to use their PC for everything else for as long as they believe they could not do those things on a Mac.

p.s.: Apple, if you're listening, please make it integrate well with TiVo.

kansaigaijin

Jan 6, 2003, 01:11 AM

apparently Windows users are not so averse to using Apple produsts,
according to an MP3 zine, sitehttp://www.mp3newswire.net
apple was on track to sell 4 million iPods. I have read elsewhere, (sorry can't find the link) that half were to windows users.
that would be more iPods than Macs in the past year!

GeneR

Jan 6, 2003, 01:17 AM

Hello again,

Sorry to intrude again into the conversation. I know I am simply displaying my ignorance on these matters, but I really would like to hear what other people think about these things.

It seems that so many people are talking wireless this and that here, especially about the idea of having an iPhone for the Mac. If Apple teamed up with one (or several) leading carriers for mobile phones and/or telephone companies and beefed up the airport card to have Bluetooth technology and the ability to turn the Mac into a cellphone/telephone, then wouldn't that mean that people with Macs and Apple laptops simply need a headphone with a microphone? In that case the laptop is the cellphone. Or for that matter so is the desktop.

I really do not know much about the cell phone industry so as an outsider I am simply putting my two cents in. Please help me understand this if you will. Thanks!

:confused:

kansaigaijin

Jan 6, 2003, 01:28 AM

you can kind of do that already. but what the whole thing about Lifestyle devices is leveraging the Apple brand (not Mac) and design signature to sell more than computers, at a better margin, while providing better products in each category.
and wireless is the way of the future. Wireless networking, and wireless devices, using the appropriate technology. 802.xx for files, bluetooth for keyboard, mouse, and syncing addressbook and calendars, headphones, and so on. You will have a geaky Bluetooth headphone/microphone thingy for your mobile before you know it.

-hh

Jan 6, 2003, 10:10 AM

I think we can divvy up the speculation into two areas:

#1 is Hardware. This is the one that we usually focus a lot of attention on. While I expect speedbumps here & there, I think that the key hardware issues for the near term (through 2004) are:

- wireless
- hubbing
- integration

For example, we have Bluetooth & Airport for wireless, as well as cellphone technology. We also have convergence integration with PDA's and Cellphones (Palm, Blackberry) where we're looking at an organizer-cum-ecmail-cum-communication types of devices, and on the business side of things, products like the immanent release of the (likely $500+) Palm Tungsten W. Given the shortcomings of a lot of these products, a "killer" product here would stand a good chance.

Note, however, that a key issue to all of these is power management, and short battery life is one complaint I've heard about the iPod.

Nevertheless, I wouldn't be too surprized if we were to see a gizmo announcement of a short list of iHub devices that all integrate and synch together: hang an iPod sized device off of your belt that holds most of the battery/cellphone overhead, and Bluetooth it to a Dick Tracy watch for Calendar reminders, to a headset for telephone, etc. This might not happen on Tuesday, but I do expect it to happen within the next ~2 years, particularly since the DoD is looking at buying such a system as part of their "LandWarrior" initiative.

#2 is Software. We tend to put this into second tier behind the hardware; shame on us.

What I suspect is going to be the big news here soon is that someone ...why not Apple?...is going to find a legal way to get around all of the RIAA issues that have blocked digital music.

For example, the discussions about laser engravement of an iPod means that they are capable of being serialized and thus, unique devices which can then become "Keyservers" for managing & controlling a set of legally licenced music & movies.

So in theory, you would only need to carry around your licence code in your "Licence Server" iPod. Particularly when coupled with a wireless network, you could download the content on demand instead of dedicating the size, weight, **and power overhead** that a large capacity hard drive in a portable device would otherwise require.

So overall, if there is a "BIG" announcment, I'd expect it to encompass a paradigm shift, and it has just as much software (including licencing) cleverness behind it as it does hardware cleverness.

And FWIW, another "BIG" Paradigm shifter would be the "iBusiness" Mac bundle: take a Mac with all of the typical Microsoft licences that is required in a typical business and look at how M$ is now demanding annual licencing fees to support as the price point you have to compete at. Afterall, its not new news that there's a lot of really unhappy businesses considering Linux because M$ has gotten so expensive. So bundle the "iMS" business software suite at a fraction of the price (and no annual maintenance fee).

-hh