New iBooks, Mac minis and iPod shuffles at MWSF 2006?

[gnasher729]

I just can't see the engineers playing in the lab with OSX for both platforms and not saying to themselves " say..since we're doing this maybe we should be ready with our flagship apps too"

Engineers were not just "playing in the lab with OSX for both platforms". Anybody who wasn't absolutely essential to get OSX for Intel running never knew about it. All work done behind closed doors, not talking to your collegues about what you are doing and so on. Pro apps were _not_ essential to get MacOS X for Intel running, so the engineers working on them were _not_ told what was going on.

I could see half a dozen FCP engineers sitting in the audience when Steve Jobs demoed the Intel box, jaws dropping, and their manager tells them: "Guess what you guys will be working on when we all get back to the office..."

[Platform]

I hope we will see a Mac Mini that not only has Front Row 2.0, but the video recording software we've heard rumors about. This way, you can plug your Mac Mini into the TV and record your favorite TV shows and Voila! Death to the Tivo! With this software technology included, they can keep the Mac Mini at the same price point despite the cheaper processor inside. Question is, is the Intel processor going to be cheaper than the PowerPC?

I think they will.....but I really hope the give it a decent CPU and GPU..so it can be used for something more than Front Row.:o

[gnasher729]

What ever happend to the harvard arcatechture of a G4=2x as fast as a pentium of the same speed?

You may have noticed that Intel is building two very different kinds of chips: The Pentium 4, optimised for meaningless Gigahurtz for dorks (countered by AMD in an act of marketing genius by calling their 2 GHz chips AMD something 3700), and the Pentium M which is instead optimised for decent performance at really low power consumption.

If you download Intel manuals and check the execution times for various instructions, you will find amazing stuff like an integer multiplication taking 15 cycles on a Pentium 4, and around 4 cycles on AMD chips, on G3-G5, and on Pentium M.

[gnasher729]

A shuffle with a small (26x11mm?) screen = a shuffle that actually has a chance to compete with its competition.

Google "DELL DJ DITTY" to see what the shuffle is up against.

And that Dell DJ Ditty has the advantage of actually being available, because 90 percent of all Ditties ever built are still available for sale.

[dambro1978]

too many words here guys, wait and see. Pope Benedict XVI said last sunday "we have to re-discover the cult of silence"

in the meantime you're silent read this.....

http://anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2627

you'll learn why Steve will move to Yonahs....

[gnasher729]

What if Apple simply phases out "powerbook" and "ibook" and instead comes up with a SINGLE new line of laptops? That would solve the ibook before powerbook problem that so many forum users are complaining about.

To maximise profit, a company will always try to have different products so that some people can buy expensive products and those who cannot or don't want to spend the money buy the cheaper product.

But there are also distinctively different uses for portable computers: 1. Computers that are carried everywhere all the time; they need to be small, light, and have good battery power. 2. Computers that are mostly sitting on one desk, and sometimes they are transported to sit on another desk. Users want the biggest screen possible.

[~Shard~]

Ever heard of Microsoft Word and Microsoft Excel? I know a bunch of people hate M$ on this board, but no matter how much you hate them you have to admit, Word and Excel are some of the best word processor and spreadsheets around. Office 2004 for Mac is awsome, and I expect 2006 to be great as well. Office is one application suite that Microsoft did right. :)

Agreed. I have said it before, if Apple wants to develop a spreadsheet program for iWork to rival Excel, they're going to have to do an amazing job, as Excel is a great, powerful app, and I would argue the strongest of all apps in the Office suite. I am a Office v.X user myself and have no complaints with the MS Office offerings for Mac. I always keep my options open though and am willing to see what iWork 06 has to offer...

[AidenShaw]

The Pentium 4, optimised for meaningless Gigahurtz for dorks...
Or, a chip designed to go to very high GigaHertz, which would more than offset a higher CPI.

Unfortunately, the processes hit a GHz wall - leaving the P4 as merely one of the fastest chips available.

If you download Intel manuals and check the execution times for various instructions, you will find amazing stuff like an integer multiplication taking 15 cycles on a Pentium 4, and around 4 cycles on AMD chips, on G3-G5, and on Pentium M.
Quotes like these are next to meaningless for O-O-O-E chips. If you had to wait 15 cycles for each multiply, it would be a serious problem - but you don't have to wait!

However, an OOOE chip doesn't stall for each instruction - it pushes them into the pipelines and retires them as they complete. A chip can have a hundred or more instructions in various stages of execution at any instant. (126 for the P4)

If your suggestion were correct, a 1GHz Pentium M would be equal to a 3.6 GHz Pentium 4 - which clearly it isn't. FUD

[nagromme]

Of course there are reasons to move the PowerBook line over as well.

So even if this is rumor is true, I think Intel PB's won't be too far off. I expect all the G4s to transition early in the year. Maybe within a matter of weeks apart. I never expected ALL of them to be at MWSF, because spreading things out makes for more press attention.

Would it be weird to let the PowerBook be in limbo for a month or so?

Yes, but then again, the Summer of No iMacs was weird... and so is the Intel transition in general. It's not out of the question that there's some need to delay the PowerBooks, even if Apple doesn't "want to."

[visualanté]

what if cs2 was optimized already like tiger then transition flow would be flawless

[SiliconAddict]

what if cs2 was optimized already like tiger then transition flow would be flawless


Nice thought....doubtful though. This is Adobe we are talking about after all.

[Randall]

Nice thought....doubtful though. This is Adobe we are talking about after all.haha Adobe is probably still using Metrowerks CodeWarrior for development. The horror. The horror. :p

[Stonecoldcleric]

To maximise profit, a company will always try to have different products so that some people can buy expensive products and those who cannot or don't want to spend the money buy the cheaper product.

Exactly! that's why all theses rumors are annoying me as a user of a pb to know that the slowest iBook will be considerably faster and cheaper and longer battery life than all the current fastest powerbooks.

But why would apple introduce upgraded pbs several months ago only to replace them next month?

Its's a quandry!

[AidenShaw]

haha Adobe is probably still using Metrowerks CodeWarrior for development. The horror. The horror. :p
...that they haven't yet been ramrodded into using Apple's proprietary development platform?

[AidenShaw]

But why would apple introduce upgraded pbs several months ago only to replace them next month?

Its's a quandry!
Maybe they had trouble getting supplies of dim, low contrast, low resolution displays - and were finally forced to upgrade to the current screen technology? ;)

Or, maybe the Yonah Powerbook will use the same screen assembly, so there's no extra cost to upgrading the screen on the end-of-line PPC models?

Yes, a quandry!

[1984]

Dell is planning on shipping Yonah based laptops ranging from 1.66 GHz to 2.16 GHz in February so this ThinkSecret business about performance versions not being available until spring is bunk. Still, Mac minis, iBooks and PowerBooks would be unprecedented.

[bigandy]

i'm drooling already, still 21 days to go :(

[Randall]

...that they haven't yet been ramrodded into using Apple's proprietary development platform?No, that switching to Intel platform won't be as easy as "ticking off the Intel tab" :rolleyes: Does Apple expect developers to believe that porting is that easy? Only in rare cases is this ever that simple.

[Peace]

Engineers were not just "playing in the lab with OSX for both platforms". Anybody who wasn't absolutely essential to get OSX for Intel running never knew about it. All work done behind closed doors, not talking to your collegues about what you are doing and so on. Pro apps were _not_ essential to get MacOS X for Intel running, so the engineers working on them were _not_ told what was going on.

I could see half a dozen FCP engineers sitting in the audience when Steve Jobs demoed the Intel box, jaws dropping, and their manager tells them: "Guess what you guys will be working on when we all get back to the office..."

So I guess you missed the part where Steve Jobs explained how Apple engineering was run..
He said ALL dept's worked concurrently with all other dept's.In other words when the OSX team was developing OSX the teams that developed FCP would share the info..
That's the way he explained it in an interview..Don't know where it's at but if you look around enough you will find it.He even said that was what made Apple different.
In the software labs at Apple all the engineers are under very strict NDA's.
Those engineers are very forward looking people.They arn't just thiking about bug reports people send in.And they certainly are working on newer versions of a good number of apps as we speak.

[MacinDoc]

So I guess you missed the part where Steve Jobs explained how Apple engineering was run..
He said ALL dept's worked concurrently with all other dept's.In other words when the OSX team was developing OSX the teams that developed FCP would share the info..
That's the way he explained it in an interview..Don't know where it's at but if you look around enough you will find it.He even said that was what made Apple different.
In the software labs at Apple all the engineers are under very strict NDA's.
Those engineers are very forward looking people.They arn't just thiking about bug reports people send in.And they certainly are working on newer versions of a good number of apps as we speak.
I'm not convinced that this collaberative effort extended to the OS X on Intel team before Jobs revealed that this group existed. Prior to the decision to switch to Intel, there would have been little benefit from this collaberation. Prior to the switch, this team really existed only as an insurance policy for Apple, in case IBM couldn't deliver the goods as expected.

[shawnce]

So I guess you missed the part where Steve Jobs explained how Apple engineering was run..
He said ALL dept's worked concurrently with all other dept's.In other words when the OSX team was developing OSX the teams that developed FCP would share the info..
That's the way he explained it in an interview..Don't know where it's at but if you look around enough you will find it.He even said that was what made Apple different.
In the software labs at Apple all the engineers are under very strict NDA's.
Those engineers are very forward looking people.They arn't just thiking about bug reports people send in.And they certainly are working on newer versions of a good number of apps as we speak.

Apple is very secretive between groups in some situations, don't dismiss that this has and does take place.

[MacinDoc]

Maybe they had trouble getting supplies of dim, low contrast, low resolution displays - and were finally forced to upgrade to the current screen technology? ;)
Yes, why does Apple, which usually uses the most advanced technologies readily available, insist on using outdated displays and video cards in laptops, iMacs and Mac Minis?

[Peace]

Since none of us work for Apple's software engineering this is all hyperbole considering the NDA involved in such a move..
I will concede the possibility that few engineers knew about the transition but Apple has a water cooler just like any other company;)

[Peace]

Sorry admin's I'm 30 posts away from an avitar :D

Steve Jobs sure knew about the transition and I really don't think he's dumb enough to not think about his "pro-apps" moving over to Intel at the same time he's thinking about OSX moving over..

[shawnce]

No, that switching to Intel platform won't be as easy as "ticking off the Intel tab" :rolleyes: Does Apple expect developers to believe that porting is that easy? Only in rare cases is this ever that simple.

No Apple is being very clear about the issues and supportive in this transition. The developer support folks are doing a good job of getting documentation together, including best practices. Also the developer tools folks have been working hard getting the tools out to make this possible. Really it is going surprisingly well from my perspective as a developer.

For example <http://developer.apple.com/transition/projectscope.html>

[NYmacAttack]

Exactly! that's why all theses rumors are annoying me as a user of a pb to know that the slowest iBook will be considerably faster and cheaper and longer battery life than all the current fastest powerbooks.

But why would apple introduce upgraded pbs several months ago only to replace them next month?

Its's a quandry!

I wonder if they will still keep two separte portable lines or if they will merge them. There could also be form factor differences if they do keep the two lines seprate.

[Randall]

I wonder if they will still keep two separte portable lines or if they will merge them. There could also be form factor differences if they do keep the two lines seprate.I don't see why they would merge them, since they are appealing to 2 different market groups.

[movielad]

I've just been reading this -

http://developer.apple.com/documentation/MacOSX/Conceptual/universal_binary/index.html

It makes me wonder just how much will work under Rosetta when these new MacTels (or as I'd like to call them, MacTops)..

M.

[Randall]

Exactly! that's why all theses rumors are annoying me as a user of a pb to know that the slowest iBook will be considerably faster and cheaper and longer battery life than all the current fastest powerbooks.

But why would apple introduce upgraded pbs several months ago only to replace them next month?

Its's a quandry!You bring up a good point, but Apple would introduce upgraded Powerbooks just last month so that they could get rid of all the G4 models that they have in stock. An upgraded LCD and a DL superdrive are easy enough to swap out. Notice how the G4 sits and collects dust though. :p

[lasuther]

Apple could easily move the iBook to an intel processor and have little affect on the powerbook. If you look at the two lines now, all that really seperates them is the harddrive (7200 vs 4200), graphics card (128MB vs 32MB), SuperDrive, and screen size/resolution. These are the reasons people buy a PowerBook, not its G4 processor which has sucked for a long time now. The intel processor might be faster, but we won't know now much faster until benchmarks are done. It might not be a huge difference.

I doubt Apple is going to make a iBook with 17" widescreen, 7200 RPM, 128MB graphics, and SuperDrive so don't worry so much PowerBook sales.

lasuther

[lasuther]

I wonder if they will still keep two separte portable lines or if they will merge them. There could also be form factor differences if they do keep the two lines seprate.

I think you'll see the 12" PowerBook and 14" iBook merge into a widescreen model. Other than that, the laptop line has been slimming down for awhile.

[Neerazan]

I would suggest that by far the majority of in house Apple software is going to have been ported to Universal Binaries (UBs) by now, regardless of if it was a big secret within Apple until a few months back.

Why? Well because if a developer is using Apple's own development tools it appears pretty simple to tweak it into a very usable UB bit of code (and yes I realise that it takes effort to optimise and test and stuff, but hey, this isn't a mom and pop kinda outfit now, is it?), and I would suggest that Apple is likely to have been developing using their own platform, no?

I look forward to finding out what Steve has in store for us, but what I'm really looking forward to is the 'one more thing...' which I hope is going to be a bit more than a new shuffle, and something that we have no clue about until that very moment, but all immediately need one in out lives :)

[gnasher729]

Quotes like these are next to meaningless for O-O-O-E chips. If you had to wait 15 cycles for each multiply, it would be a serious problem - but you don't have to wait!

Throughput: Pentium 4 = 1 integer multiplication every five cycles. G4: One integer multiplication every cycle. No way to avoid this, you have to wait. High latency is also a killer if you have dependent operations in a loop, because at some point your pipelines are stuffed, and then you wait. And wait. And wait.

[Randall]

Apple could easily move the iBook to an intel processor and have little affect on the powerbook. If you look at the two lines now, all that really seperates them is the harddrive (7200 vs 4200), graphics card (128MB vs 32MB), SuperDrive, and screen size/resolution. These are the reasons people buy a PowerBook, not its G4 processor which has sucked for a long time now. The intel processor might be faster, but we won't know now much faster until benchmarks are done. It might not be a huge difference.

I doubt Apple is going to make a iBook with 17" widescreen, 7200 RPM, 128MB graphics, and SuperDrive so don't worry so much PowerBook sales.

lasutherActually bench marks were done, and the dual core Yonah holds it's own against AMD 64-bit desktop computers. Which is near unheard of performance from a laptop.

[Randall]

Throughput: Pentium 4 = 1 integer multiplication every five cycles. G4: One integer multiplication every cycle. No way to avoid this, you have to wait. High latency is also a killer if you have dependent operations in a loop, because at some point your pipelines are stuffed, and then you wait. And wait. And wait.That's true. Now tell them about the Pentium M being nothing like the Pentium 4, besides the bus interface. (I don't think Apple is planning on useing the P4)

[gnasher729]

Since none of us work for Apple's software engineering this is all hyperbole considering the NDA involved in such a move..
I will concede the possibility that few engineers knew about the transition but Apple has a water cooler just like any other company;)

There are things that you talk about at the water cooler, but when your manager asked you to sign an NDA to work on some new stuff (on top of the usual NDA that you signed to get hired), and gave you a new office with a door that can be locked, and told you to lock the door whenever you leave it, and told you that Steve Jobs will come personally and rip your head off if you talk, then you don't talk.

[lasuther]

Actually bench marks were done, and the dual core Yonah holds it's own against AMD 64-bit desktop computers. Which is near unheard of performance from a laptop.

This what I mean. It is a huge assumption that Apple will release a $1000 iBook with the performance of a AMD 64bit desktop. The reality of what Apple brings us in 3 more weeks might be quite different. We need to see the benchmarks of the actual iBook after its released. Apple has always done a good job of crippling the iBook line, I see no reason why this will be any different.

lasuther

[Peace]

There are things that you talk about at the water cooler, but when your manager asked you to sign an NDA to work on some new stuff (on top of the usual NDA that you signed to get hired), and gave you a new office with a door that can be locked, and told you to lock the door whenever you leave it, and told you that Steve Jobs will come personally and rip your head off if you talk, then you don't talk.

My post was meant to be humorous:)

However,Apple is NOT Microsoft.

[yoak]

Exactly! that's why all theses rumors are annoying me as a user of a pb to know that the slowest iBook will be considerably faster and cheaper and longer battery life than all the current fastest powerbooks.

But why would apple introduce upgraded pbs several months ago only to replace them next month?

Could it be to try to make as much money as possible?
;)

[reflex]

My business partner has an Insprion POC with a Pentium-M 2.1 Ghz processor. I can encoded DVD's, run mail, surf the internet, and run OpenGl Starry Night Pro Plus all at the same time much faster and smoother than my partner.

Your business partner most likely has his laptop running at something like 800MHz, because Intel SpeedStep slows down the cpu when it's not used much. It doesn't seem to work very well in Windows, as mine (Pentium-M 1.7GHz) usually stays at 600MHz even if I'm doing stuff that could really use more speed.

The energy saving settings in Windows can make it always run at its maximum speed ("Always on" setting).

[balamw]

Intel SpeedStep slows down the cpu when it's not used much. It doesn't seem to work very well in Windows, as mine (Pentium-M 1.7GHz) usually stays at 600MHz even if I'm doing stuff that could really use more speed.
I thought SpeedStep (or some other Intel technology) also slowed down the CPU when it started to run hot. i.e. it'll run slower if it's underused or fully utilized for an extended period of time. I hope the new Intel books have good thermal management.

B

[EricNau]

Ever heard of Microsoft Word and Microsoft Excel? I know a bunch of people hate M$ on this board, but no matter how much you hate them you have to admit, Word and Excel are some of the best word processor and spreadsheets around. Office 2004 for Mac is awsome, and I expect 2006 to be great as well. Office is one application suite that Microsoft did right. :)
Agreed. I have said it before, if Apple wants to develop a spreadsheet program for iWork to rival Excel, they're going to have to do an amazing job, as Excel is a great, powerful app, and I would argue the strongest of all apps in the Office suite. I am a Office v.X user myself and have no complaints with the MS Office offerings for Mac. I always keep my options open though and am willing to see what iWork 06 has to offer...
I happen to think that the Microsoft Office Suite is one the worst Software suites I have ever been forced to use. I will agree that Word, Excel, & Powerpoint are good. But have you ever tried going past just those, such as Publisher or Frontpage? They don't work together at all! If you try to copy something out of Publisher and into Word, it re-aranges everything, it's awful. No, this is not a suite, but a set of similar programs that hate each other!

[Randall]

I happen to think that the Microsoft Office Suite is one the worst Software suites I have ever been forced to use. I will agree that Word, Excel, & Powerpoint are good. But have you ever tried going past just those, such as Publisher or Frontpage? They don't work together at all! If you try to copy something out of Publisher and into Word, it re-aranges everything, it's awful. No, this is not a suite, but a set of similar programs that hate each other!Oh sorry I was talking about the Mac version, which rules! Yeah Publisher and Frontpage are sub-par, I personally use GoLive. I don't even know why Microsoft still has Publisher, because it's a dinosaur. In all seriousness, nothing compairs to MS Excel. Nothing. It is by far and away the best spreadsheet application available. Open Office doesn't even come close, not by a longshot. (I am not a Microsoft Fanboi, but I recognise a quality application when I see it.)

My personal list of the best at what they do:
Imaging: Adobe Creative Suite
Web: Adobe GoLive
Video: Apple Final Cut Studio Pro
Music: Apple iTunes
Office: Microsoft Office
OS: Apple OS X
Games: Blizzard Entertainment and Ensemble Studios (tie)

[Peace]

Granted I haven't purchased an MS Office product for 3 years but it was my understanding that Publisher and Frontpage were not part of the MS Office suite.

[EricNau]

Granted I haven't purchased an MS Office product for 3 years but it was my understanding that Publisher and Frontpage were not part of the MS Office suite.
It's not included in the Mac version, nor the cheaper Windows version, but if you buy the Deluxe plus plus, super-duper suite it comes with those, but the super-duper pack costs like a billion dollars! :eek:

[EricNau]

Oh sorry I was talking about the Mac version, which rules! Yeah Publisher and Frontpage are sub-par, I personally use GoLive. I don't even know why Microsoft still has Publisher, because it's a dinosaur. In all seriousness, nothing compairs to MS Excel. Nothing. It is by far and away the best spreadsheet application available. Open Office doesn't even come close, not by a longshot. (I am not a Microsoft Fanboi, but I recognise a quality application when I see it.)

My personal list of the best at what they do:
Imaging: Adobe Creative Suite
Web: Adobe GoLive
Video: Apple Final Cut Studio Pro
Music: Apple iTunes
Office: Microsoft Office
OS: Apple OS X
Games: Blizzard Entertainment and Ensemble Studios (tie)

Yes, the mac Office version is great. Adobe GoLive is good, but I don't love it either. I think I would like the Dramweaver interface more, but I was forced to learn GoLive, so that is what I use.
And for Music, you can't beat iTunes. :cool:
Haven't gotten too involved with video...yet. :D

[SiliconAddict]

And professionals want to be able to run their apps fast for whatever reason they need them for (publishing, audio, video, photography, all processor intense things, you think Rosetta, an EMULATOR, is going to be THAT powerful?)


I give up.

*bangs head into keyboard* G&I T*&&<>7876,tS&*<

Does anyone even read some of the previous posts before they respond? Whatever. I guess people on the board are more object lesson oriented. Steve'o will provide this in a few weeks.

[Peace]

It's not included in the Mac version, nor the cheaper Windows version, but if you buy the Deluxe plus plus, super-duper suite it comes with those, but the super-duper pack costs like a billion dollars! :eek:

http://www.microsoft.com/office/editions/howtobuy/compare.mspx

Nowhere do I see Frontpage included in any edition.

[EricNau]

http://www.microsoft.com/office/editions/howtobuy/compare.mspx

Nowhere do I see Frontpage included in any edition.

Guess I was wrong - Darnit! :mad:

(It did come with Publisher though, I was half right.) ;)

[caccamolle]

Exactly! that's why all theses rumors are annoying me as a user of a pb to know that the slowest iBook will be considerably faster and cheaper and longer battery life than all the current fastest powerbooks.

But why would apple introduce upgraded pbs several months ago only to replace them next month?

Its's a quandry!



geeeeeee, another whiner !!!!!!

oh my pb ! oh my pb! oh my pb ! oh my pb slower than his iBook !!!!

I don't think there are that many, the problem is that the few of them are all here at MacRumors :)

[SiliconAddict]

http://www.microsoft.com/office/editions/howtobuy/compare.mspx

Nowhere do I see Frontpage included in any edition.

They removed FrontPage from the Office 2003 bundled packages. Office 2000 and Office XP Premium contained the whole enchilada.

[Peace]

They removed FrontPage from the Office 2003 bundled packages. Office 2000 and Office XP Premium contained the whole enchilada.

Don't mean to step on your God status but I used to be a beta tester for MS and at no time was Frontpage included in any office suite.You might be thinking of frontpage extensions tho:)
There never has been an "Office Premium Edition".It's always been "student,standard and professional".

Product Description
Microsoft Office XP 2002 Professional. Microsoft Office XP 2002 Professional includes: Word XP; Excel XP; Outlook XP; PowerPoint XP; Access XP.

Office 2000 Professional includes the following:

Microsoft Word 2000
Microsoft Excel 2000
Microsoft Outlook 2000
Microsoft Publisher 2000
Microsoft Small Business Tools
Microsoft Access 2000
Microsoft PowerPoint 2000


Gad....that's enough free ads for Microsoft now..

[TaKashMoney]

LOL well put caccamolle ! I can't stand people ignoring numerous sources saying that it doesnt make any sense, when really they are just hoping technology won't leave them behind.

[iEdd]

geeeeeee, another whiner !!!!!!

oh my pb ! oh my pb! oh my pb ! oh my pb slower than his iBook !!!!

I don't think there are that many, the problem is that the few of them are all here at MacRumors :)
You're whining more about him than he is about PBs. He's expressing an opinion, seemingly quite calmy. Doing the math, your post was about 4 times less relevant than his. :rolleyes:
Let's all try and get on here. Jesus... The internet should be the one place you can go to get away from bitching and arguing about/to each other.
Let's just say this, you buy a ferrari, it's silver and it has 350KW of power for $200 000. Your friend buys one for $150 000 and it's white with 280KW of power. 2 months later, another one of your friend spends $150 000 and he gets 400KW of power and twice as many features. Judging by your posts, I know you are perfect and you wouldn't complain, or moan or whine, I know you'd probably just sit there and smile for the other person, even offer to give him your car for free :rolleyes:
I'm not here to flame you or anything, I'm just saying to let others have an opinion and only call them whiners or flame them if they start typing in caps, large letters and bold being complete and utter retards. Peace.
PS: God a Ferrari would be sweet :p Need a house more though.

[~Shard~]

I happen to think that the Microsoft Office Suite is one the worst Software suites I have ever been forced to use. I will agree that Word, Excel, & Powerpoint are good. But have you ever tried going past just those, such as Publisher or Frontpage? They don't work together at all!

I was talking about the Office suite, and the Office suite for Mac, specifically, which runs great. Publisher and Frontpage are not part of the Office suite whatsoever. :cool:

[iEdd]

I was talking about the Office suite, and the Office suite for Mac, specifically, which runs great. Publisher and Frontpage are not part of the Office suite whatsoever. :cool:
It's quite amazing how the only thing microsoft does right is a software suite for the opposition operating system ;)

[Doctor Q]

at no time was Frontpage included in any office suite.This Microsoft page (http://www.microsoft.com/office/editions/howtobuy/compare.mspx) seems to agree with you, while this Microsoft page (http://www.microsoft.com/office/testdrive) does not. :confused:

[~Shard~]

It's quite amazing how the only thing microsoft does right is a software suite for the opposition operating system ;)

I prefer the term "beautifully ironic". ;) :cool:

This Microsoft page seems to agree with you, while this Microsoft page does not.

Yeah, that sound about right for Microsoft. :p

[Beck446]

You're whining more about him than he is about PBs. He's expressing an opinion, seemingly quite calmy. Doing the math, your post was about 4 times less relevant than his. :rolleyes:
Let's all try and get on here. Jesus... The internet should be the one place you can go to get away from bitching and arguing about/to each other.
Let's just say this, you buy a ferrari, it's silver and it has 350KW of power for $200 000. Your friend buys one for $150 000 and it's white with 280KW of power. 2 months later, another one of your friend spends $150 000 and he gets 400KW of power and twice as many features. Judging by your posts, I know you are perfect and you wouldn't complain, or moan or whine, I know you'd probably just sit there and smile for the other person, even offer to give him your car for free :rolleyes:
I'm not here to flame you or anything, I'm just saying to let others have an opinion and only call them whiners or flame them if they start typing in caps, large letters and bold being complete and utter retards. Peace.
PS: God a Ferrari would be sweet :p Need a house more though.



Huh? I've got to side with the other guy. The original poster's post served no purpose other than to complain that his PB will be slower than the new iBooks. What does that add to the forum? Technology changes. Those who whine about the PB's have nobody to blame but themselves. They bought early and hopefully enjoyed the last couple months with the fastest Apple laptop available, b/c it won't be the fastest anymore...

[dontmatter]

Oh sorry I was talking about the Mac version, which rules! Yeah Publisher and Frontpage are sub-par, I personally use GoLive. I don't even know why Microsoft still has Publisher, because it's a dinosaur. In all seriousness, nothing compairs to MS Excel. Nothing. It is by far and away the best spreadsheet application available. Open Office doesn't even come close, not by a longshot. (I am not a Microsoft Fanboi, but I recognise a quality application when I see it.)

My personal list of the best at what they do:
Imaging: Adobe Creative Suite
Web: Adobe GoLive
Video: Apple Final Cut Studio Pro
Music: Apple iTunes
Office: Microsoft Office
OS: Apple OS X
Games: Blizzard Entertainment and Ensemble Studios (tie)

Surely there is no spreadsheet program better than excel, but that does not make excel an excellent program. First: I'm not a high end spreasheet user, and don't know my way around very well. But I think that's OK-most everybody on earth has MS Office, and most people know their way around word just enough.

So take someone like me, using excel. certainly capable with computer in general, likes to tinker, but not a professional. And you do some stuff, oh, for chem class, and get your results. And you make a little chart. Now, in your first chart, you enter the title in the little chart wizard thingy when indicating where the data is coming from, and in the next one you enter the title when your naming the X and Y axes. AND YOU GET TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT LOOKING TITLES. One is big, bold, the other is a different font, smaller than the axis titles.

How is that good software?

[caccamolle]

You're whining more about him than he is about PBs. He's expressing an opinion, seemingly quite calmy. Doing the math, your post was about 4 times less relevant than his. :rolleyes:
Let's all try and get on here. Jesus... The internet should be the one place you can go to get away from bitching and arguing about/to each other.
Let's just say this, you buy a ferrari, it's silver and it has 350KW of power for $200 000. Your friend buys one for $150 000 and it's white with 280KW of power. 2 months later, another one of your friend spends $150 000 and he gets 400KW of power and twice as many features. Judging by your posts, I know you are perfect and you wouldn't complain, or moan or whine, I know you'd probably just sit there and smile for the other person, even offer to give him your car for free :rolleyes:
I'm not here to flame you or anything, I'm just saying to let others have an opinion and only call them whiners or flame them if they start typing in caps, large letters and bold being complete and utter retards. Peace.
PS: God a Ferrari would be sweet :p Need a house more though.

Man, I was not flaming, was I ?
I was expressing my opinion, nothing against the other dude really. I do appreciate your comments though.

On the other hand, you cannot deny that every single time there is an update, here at MacR, many many dudes who purchased prior to the update go on and on whining. Which is not a fault or a crime, I am just saying I would move on with life, because the world moves on anyway and PCs and all will continue to evolve and improve (hopefully).
But hey, if whining works for some, let it be.

The Ferrari example, is good and bad. Conceptually it is good, however you cannot compare at all the the frequency of updates/revisions of Ferrari cars with PCs, just not even close. It is a whole different ball game and as you know when a new model is out it takes on average 12-18 months to get it, if you are lucky enough to actually get one (unless you pay was above the price).

So anyhow, I got you points - I hope you get mine, at least in part.

And yes, Ferrari are sweet. A friend of mine just got the 360 while he waits for the new one, but he makes at least 20x what I makes so that's easy :) For me too, house or house improvements come first and I got nothing left !!!!!

cc

[iEdd]

Thank-you caccamolle, you seem a reasonable member on these boards :) I am aware that the car market analogy is bad, but I think that high end italian cars are to the auto market as macs are to the computer market. Sorry if my post came off blunt/arrogant/ignorant. Personally for MWSF I am hoping all G4 computers go intel. Dunno what's happening with eMac though.

[~Shard~]

Personally for MWSF I am hoping all G4 computers go intel. Dunno what's happening with eMac though.


Oooh, good one - yes, what will happen to the eMac? There's a machine I haven't heard anything about in ages... almost forgot about it... ;)

And yes, as I've stated before, I think it only makes sense to get rid of the G4 machines first with Intel chips, then go from there. Whether Apple will do ti all at once though remains to be seen. I doubt all 3 lines will be updated at MWSF, but I definitely wouldn't complain if that were the case! ;) More likely though, we will see further updates in the subsequent weeks following MWSF, as has happened in the past. Many great things have been released at previous MWSFs, however Apple has always had a tendency of releasing more (sometimes equally as important) updates in the few short weeks afterwards as well, extending into the February time period. :cool:

[AidenShaw]

There are things that you talk about at the water cooler, but when your manager asked you to sign an NDA to work on some new stuff (on top of the usual NDA that you signed to get hired), and gave you a new office with a door that can be locked, and told you to lock the door whenever you leave it, and told you that Steve Jobs will come personally and rip your head off if you talk, then you don't talk.
Forget about the Steve, I worry about George W. Shrubbery !

Seriously, though, there is a lot of internal secrecy inside companies in the valley.

Apple is the poster child for this - with threats to impair your ability to reproduce if you even hint about the next color for the iPod. (Although Apple would have benefited from leaks of the Dalmation/Flower Power Imacs - the huge chorus of "don't go there" might have avoided that fiasco.)

Any information that may have a material affect on the stock price of a publicly traded company needs to be strictly controlled. What would have been the effect of stories about "Apple announces 64-bit IBM PPC-970 based systems" and "New build of OSX for Intel 32-bit x86 chips" showing up the same week? Not good for PPC970 (aka Apple marketing name "G5") systems....

I keep an Excel spreadsheet of the things that I'm working on, and what each of the people who report to me have worked on. When I get an email from the corporate legal team saying that I have been reported to the SEC as having substantive non-public knowledge, I need to tell the lawyers who else is involved.

When a new project comes up, before I ask one of my people if they'd like to work on it - the first question is "do you need to sell stock in the next 6 months?"....

Apple is in the same boat - even if you absolutely, without question, trust people - security rules require you to do extraordinary things to maintain secrets.

So, even though regular readers may be surprised to hear me defending Apple, keeping the real extent of the x86 build environment private was essential.

[caccamolle]

Thank-you caccamolle, you seem a reasonable member on these boards :) I am aware that the car market analogy is bad, but I think that high end italian cars are to the auto market as macs are to the computer market. Sorry if my post came off blunt/arrogant/ignorant. Personally for MWSF I am hoping all G4 computers go intel. Dunno what's happening with eMac though.

g4 and g5 I would add with no hesitation, should I say more ? just being a bit sarcastic, but serious nonetheless. I personally love the Mac, have been with Apple since the IIe, never looked back. However, now, I am thinking enough is enough. IT's been a nobel cause which I have supported with all my means (man if I added up the $$$ I have spent with Apple, I am sure it would be more than $50k!), but now lets get real and switch to where the power is, which is not just in the processor but the whole architecture.

Geee, I am horrified at the fact that in a couple of days I will receive my first ever windoz PC. Yes, I oredered it for my wife for work, but in the process I made sure it would be a fast machine; I am horrified at how it will feel to play games on it compared to the Macs !!!!! ... you know, years ahead. (by the way a very fast machine for just $1800, including a 20" lcd - believe me, it will take lots of Macs to even come close for games and I bet many other apps).

Anyhhow, I am diverting. Again, thank you Apple for switching so now you'll stop asking people to do so :)


cc

PS: I really want an iMac 20", I just love it !!! but I will wait for the intel stuff.

[caccamolle]

Thank-you caccamolle, you seem a reasonable member on these boards :) I am aware that the car market analogy is bad, but I think that high end italian cars are to the auto market as macs are to the computer market. Sorry if my post came off blunt/arrogant/ignorant. Personally for MWSF I am hoping all G4 computers go intel. Dunno what's happening with eMac though.

Hey, I try to be reasonable, not always succeed, but hey I can take it some ****** when I deserve it.
Wow, I am not too much in disagreement with Apple vs Ferrari; I love Apple in good part, like I guess many others, because of its design and innovation, it just kicks butt. Unbeatable. Lets hope it will stay so and with the switch I hope it will stay so w/o performance compromises.

[hulugu]

...Jesus... The internet should be the one place you can go to get away from bitching and arguing about/to each other.

I thought that's what the Internet was for. That, and porn.

[Platform]

This Microsoft page (http://www.microsoft.com/office/editions/howtobuy/compare.mspx) seems to agree with you, while this Microsoft page (http://www.microsoft.com/office/testdrive) does not. :confused:

When I installed Office XP....i got it :confused:

[Randall]

I thought that's what the Internet was for. That, and porn.lmao. that's about right. *searches for porn* I'll be back on the boards tomorrow arguing x86 vs PPC again, then search for more pr0n. :cool:

[Peace]

This Microsoft page (http://www.microsoft.com/office/editions/howtobuy/compare.mspx) seems to agree with you, while this Microsoft page (http://www.microsoft.com/office/testdrive) does not. :confused:


The page that has the "test drive" is just that.A typical crippled-overbloated-barely usable 30 day trial offer.Then when ya want to buy it you dont get all of it..
<edit> crap it's not even a real dvd or cd or download

From their FAQ :
Is the Microsoft Office System a single offering? Is there a box that includes the entire Microsoft Office System?
A.

No. The Microsoft Office System is a portfolio of products and services that provide the building blocks to build solutions to business needs. Those building blocks, many of which are familiar products such as Microsoft Office Professional Edition 2003, Microsoft Office Visio&#174; 2003, and other programs, will continue to be available separately, along with newer additions such as Microsoft Office InfoPath™ 2003 and Microsoft Office OneNote™ 2003.

To find retail pricing and upgrade information for Microsoft Office System programs, servers, and services, visit the Microsoft Office System products licensing and pricing page.

From THAT page :-)
http://www.microsoft.com/office/editions/howtobuy/default.mspx

Read what one gets with each edition..

</edit>

Sorry bout the off-topic banter sysops..

We now return you to your regularily scheduled program...:-)

[digitalbiker]

The page that has the "test drive" is just that.A typical crippled-overbloated-barely usable 30 day trial offer.Then when ya want to buy it you dont get all of it..
<edit> crap it's not even a real dvd or cd or download

We now return you to your regularily scheduled program...:-)

I have bought numerous versions of MS Office both Mac and PC versions over the past 15 years for a fairly large business and as best as I can remember Front Page has never been included with any office suite. It has always been a separate purchase.

I think Silicon Addict has been standing too close to his Pentium 4 cooling fan again.
:D

[EricNau]

This Microsoft page (http://www.microsoft.com/office/editions/howtobuy/compare.mspx) seems to agree with you, while this Microsoft page (http://www.microsoft.com/office/testdrive) does not. :confused:
The two websites disagreeing matches the product perfectly. ;)

[iEdd]

This Microsoft page (http://www.microsoft.com/office/editions/howtobuy/compare.mspx) seems to agree with you, while this Microsoft page (http://www.microsoft.com/office/testdrive) does not. :confused:
This little microsoft went to market, this little microsoft did not. The second one is of course more respectable :p

[ebunton]

I got this from digg:

http://www.kinston.com/SiteProcessor.cfm?Template=/GlobalTemplates/Details.cfm&StoryID=32967&Section=Local

I wonder what it means?

[EricNau]

I got this from digg:

http://www.kinston.com/SiteProcessor.cfm?Template=/GlobalTemplates/Details.cfm&StoryID=32967&Section=Local

I wonder what it means?
Will Apple sell the used ones for cheap? I want one!

[supersalzme]

I got this from digg:

http://www.kinston.com/SiteProcessor.cfm?Template=/GlobalTemplates/Details.cfm&StoryID=32967&Section=Local

I wonder what it means?


Wow, I think this seals the deal. New powerbooks and ibooks...wow...STOKED!

[GregA]

Don't mean to step on your God status but I used to be a beta tester for MS and at no time was Frontpage included in any office suite.You might be thinking of frontpage extensions tho:)
There never has been an "Office Premium Edition".It's always been "student,standard and professional"All I know is that there are too many Office versions.

So looking it up - here are 2 sites that show a premium edition.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0782140009/102-7690850-3340950?v=glance&n=283155
http://www.softwarepatch.com/office/officexpsp1.html

[EricNau]

All I know is that there are too many Office versions.

So looking it up - here are 2 sites that show a premium edition.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0782140009/102-7690850-3340950?v=glance&n=283155
http://www.softwarepatch.com/office/officexpsp1.html
See everyone, I wasn't making it up.

Thanks GregA :)

[Peace]

See everyone, I wasn't making it up.

Thanks GregA :)


GAWD..here we go again..ok

Ya dont believe me maybe you will believe the XP guru Paul Thurrott
http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/office2003_editions.asp
note :Note: Some Office 2003 applications are not available in any suite editions. These products include Microsoft Office FrontPage 2003, Microsoft Office OneNote 2003, Microsoft Office Publisher 2003 with Digital Imaging, Microsoft Office Project Standard Edition 2003, Microsoft Office Project Professional Edition 2003, Microsoft Office Visio Standard Edition 2003, and Microsoft Office Visio Professional Edition 2003.


I guess some companies (other than microsoft) refer to the professional version as premium but Microsoft DOES NOT.

Anyway I'm kinda sorta wrong if it makes people feel better..MS did come out with Office XP Pro with the first version of Frontpage a few years ago.It was a very poor version of MS getting into the world of HTML and wasn't in market very long..

Can we end this thread now ? :)

[Platform]

Can we end this thread now ? :)

No.

[Peace]

No.

I was referring to the MS Office for peecee's.If you wish to continue to argue a dumb point then by all means go for it.As for me I'm done;)

[boombashi]

Wow, I think this seals the deal. New powerbooks and ibooks...wow...STOKED!

I think ebunton's post should be on the home page. Best evidence I've seen so far of a information leak.

[Edit] Somebody should call the writer of that article and find out where he got his info from. You could pose as an Apple lawyer and then maybe he would give up his contact ;)

From the bottom of the article :

Michael Abernethy can be reached at (252) 527-3191, Ext. 273, or at mabernethy@freedomenc.com.

[Edit Again] I see they just put this on Page 2 this morning, my bad, still think it deserves page 1.

[OCOTILLO]

If all the items rumored to be introduced in January are released it would more than double Apples product line. If you believe these rumors, prepare to be disappointed.

[conradzoo]

If all the items rumored to be introduced in January are released it would more than double Apples product line. If you believe these rumors, prepare to be disappointed.

Well, wanting a proper powerbook for at least a year now I am quite used to be disappointed. Another couple of months, pfffff, easy....

[SiliconAddict]

I was referring to the MS Office for peecee's.If you wish to continue to argue a dumb point then by all means go for it.As for me I'm done;)


*shrugs* You may have been a beta tester. I've been rolling out this software for 7 years now. I can tell you right now that Microsoft does box FrontPage in with 2000, and XP. How do I know. I rolled the freaking packages out to our graphics dept. Premium 2000 comes with two CD's. CD1 is Word, Excel, PowerPoint.....Gah. Just see for yourself...

http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=37280&stc=1&d=1135195530

If it makes you happy I can scan the front of my Office XP box when I get home that shows FrontPage bundled with everything else.

PS- Don't mess with God. ;)

[GregA]

Note: Some Office 2003 applications are not available in any suite editions. These products include Microsoft Office FrontPage 2003....<snip>
Can we end this thread now ? :)It's quite possible that "Office XP Premium", and "Office XP Small Business Edition" (which we use), were not released in the US.

I wish there were only 3 versions. It'd be easier to work out whether someone had the program I was looking for.

[Peace]

*shrugs* You may have been a beta tester. I've been rolling out this software for 7 years now. I can tell you right now that Microsoft does box FrontPage in with 2000, and XP. How do I know. I rolled the freaking packages out to our graphics dept. Premium 2000 comes with two CD's. CD1 is Word, Excel, PowerPoint.....Gah. Just see for yourself...

http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=37280&stc=1&d=1135195530

If it makes you happy I can scan the front of my Office XP box when I get home that shows FrontPage bundled with everything else.

PS- Don't mess with God. ;)

For the second time
I GIVE ok?
<edit> in otherwords I'm wrong and you're right:-) </edit>

But as a last word..since I'm Irish and you seem Irish also

Office XP FIRST came out as Office XP Professional and later came out with Office XP "Special Edition"..

According to Amazon
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00005AFI1/103-1780319-3477428?v=glance&s=software

Office XP Professional did NOT have Frontpage..

YOUR Organisation may have a "Premium" edition..In Microsofts world it's volume licensing..I'm assuming this because you said you rolled it out to various departments so you must have had a volume license..

Now..

The Special edition did indeed include Frontpage..but by the time that happened..sometime around 2002 I no longer did stuff for Microsoft and switched to Mac's and gave away ALL my Microsoft software..

Frontpage 2000 was a little app included with Office2000.So little and so bad I paid no attention to it..

As of NOW ..there is NO version of Office that comes with Frontpage..
According to Microsoft:
http://www.microsoft.com/office/editions/howtobuy/compare.mspx



:)

[iEdd]

That drunk guy near the pub was right, it IS a microsoft world. Even in a thread about new macs coming out.

[Peace]

That drunk guy near the pub was right, it IS a microsoft world. Even in a thread about new macs coming out.


My appologies:o

[mammajamma]

Is it wise to wait for a Intel Mac knowing that most of the audio applications I use such as SuperCollider, Cycling '74 Max/MSP, Digital Performer, etc. won't be ready for an Intel Machine? I know Rosetta translates PPC code dynamically, but I don't think that it will be very efficient in real-time audio synthesis... Furthermore I don't think native versions of this software will be ready until mid to late 2006. Do you think rosetta will be able to emulated these programs efficiently? If not, I might as get a PPC PowerBook now and ride out the transition until everything is ported to Intel.

[Peace]

Is it wise to wait for a Intel Mac knowing that most of the audio applications I use such as SuperCollider, Cycling '74 Max/MSP, Digital Performer, etc. won't be ready for an Intel Machine? I know Rosetta translates PPC code dynamically, but I don't think that it will be very efficient in real-time audio synthesis... Furthermore I don't think native versions of this software will be ready until mid to late 2006. Do you think rosetta will be able to emulated these programs efficiently? If not, I might as get a PPC PowerBook now and ride out the transition until everything is ported to Intel.

From what I gather from the SuperCollider website that app is a Classic app.It's my understanding Classic won't be supported on the Intel machines.

From the Help menu :
You cannot use Mac OS 9 applications on Intel-based Macintosh computers because the Classic environment is not supported.

[GregA]

Is it wise to wait for a Intel Mac knowing that most of the audio applications I use such as SuperCollider, Cycling '74 Max/MSP, Digital Performer, etc. won't be ready for an Intel Machine? I know Rosetta translates PPC code dynamically, but I don't think that it will be very efficient in real-time audio synthesis... Furthermore I don't think native versions of this software will be ready until mid to late 2006. Do you think rosetta will be able to emulated these programs efficiently? If not, I might as get a PPC PowerBook now and ride out the transition until everything is ported to Intel.I think this class of application will work better on PPC, wait for a native version (however, note that the zdnet review of iTunes compression, in emulation, showed that it did it reasonably well).

The new Intel machines will likely emulate SOME applications very well, faster than the PPCs they are replacing. Native apps will be fastest of course. And then you have the apps that won't emulate quite as well (the processor intensive applications like yours).

Still - I would wait until Jan 10 if buying now wasn't critical. Whatever the announcements are, the PPC machines may see a price drop.

[mammajamma]

SuperCollider 3 is a native OS X application. There was SuperCollider 2, which was for OS 9. For some reason I doubt Max/MSP or SuperCollider will work very well with Rosetta. There was a similar transition from OS 9 to OS X in which neither of the aforementioned programs worked via classic. It took 2 years to recode these programs for OS X. I imagine Rosetta is best for programs like Microsoft Word, which makes it more likely that I'll order a PowerBook G4 soon. Can anyone refute this? Otherwise I'll be picking a PowerBook soon.

[danvdr]

AppleInsider had an article (see quote below) that states the Pent.M beats Yonah in single core applications (e.g. MS Word), but Yonah excels in apps designed to handle more number crunching (e.g. 3D). Couldn't the next MacMini and iBook be based on PM while the Powerbook gets Yonah?

"In a recent series of business-oriented and multimedia benchmark tests, AnandTech compared a pre-production dual-core 2.0GHz Yonah processor to a 2.0GHz Dothan-based Pentium M 760, as well as three AMD Athlon 64 X2 processors ranging in speeds from 2.0GHz to 2.2GHz.

In the business applications test, Yonah failed to shine, primarily because applications like Microsoft Word and Outlook Express do not take on a heavily multithreaded workload, which dual-core chips are designed to optimize.

With Yonah, "Intel has increased the L2 cache latency by 40%, and thus it is outperformed by the older, single core Pentium M processor despite the fact that they run at the same clock speed," AnandTech explained.

Yonah's performance in multimedia and 3D-intensive applications is a completely different story. In a Winstone 2004 multimedia content creation test, Yonah faired significantly better than the Pentium M with a score of 34.7 compared to the Pentium M's 28.3."

[Norse Son]

Exactly - no need to hold back one product for another! Let's get those Intel iBooks out there, with the Intel PowerBooks soon to follow!

Um, the dual core chips are ready. It's the single core Yonahs which will not be out for a little while yet. And technically Apple has its sights on Merom for the portables, but is not going to wait around until late '06 just for that to happen - hence why they're moving forward with Yonah. :cool:

Then why does the iBook not have FrWr 800... Why did it take so long to get a SuperDrive... Why doesn't it have the best GPU available with 128MB of VRAM..... Because it would cost more, and it would "dillute" the value of the PowerBook. A couple years back there was still a "somewhat" respectable performance gap between the iBook & PowerBook... However, as the G4 stagnated, and the G5 never (realism here!) materialized, that gap became tight enough that you could barely squeeze Steve Ballmer's brain through it.

I don't see the iBook getting Yonah before (or unless) the PowerBook does. The first version is the 32bit, dual-core dubbed Centrino Duo. It has a 667MHz frontside bus and 2MB of L2 cache, as well as the other bells & whistles of the Napa platform. The PowerBook has a 66MHz bus and 512k(?) of L2-cache... You do the math.

No, I think it will be PowerBooks "announced" at MWSF, available around the first week of February. The iBook will wait until May, for the single-core Yonah, dubbed Centrino Solo. Next after Yonah comes Merom (September-ish). This beast will be a 64bit, dual-core cpu.

For my 2 cents worth, I think that both the iBook and PowerBook lines will split into 4, more-rounded, product offerings:
• iBook "Jr.": 12-13" WS, Yonah single-core, Intel graphics, Centrino 802.11g, etc.
• iBook: 13-15" WS, Yonah dual core mid-perf., 64MB PCI-Exp x16 low-end gpu, Centrino 802.11g, etc.
• PowerBook: 13-15" WS, Yonah dual-core hi-perf., 128MB PCI-Exp x16 mid-range gpu, Centrino 802.11g, etc.
• PowerBook Pro: 15-17" WS HD, Merom dual-core hi-perf., 256-512MB PCI-Exp x16 hi-end gpu, Centrino 802.11n, etc.

From what I've read the Intel Yonah will actually be more expensive than the PPC chips it will replace, so just how affordable would it be for Apple to put a dual-core Yonah in an iBook? The only reason Dell & Co. can is that their quantity is so much greater than Apple's, yet their gross margins are less... So, for Apple to compete they will likely have to shave off some of their profit AND what they charge, making a dual-core Yonah impractical for an iBook at MWSF '06...

Now, some would say that Intel may "favor" Apple with discounts after successfully wooing them over the past decade. However, wouldn't Dell & Co. cry foul, especially when they still buy more Intel chips than Apple will? Plus, the "lure" for a corporate or large educational customer to buy dual-boot (MacOS X & Windows or Linux) machines is intangible at best - especially if they have to pay an extra $150-400 for the ability...

I think the iMac will wait for Merom, too, because it's a "sticky" marketing point to drop back from 64bit G5 to 32bit Yonah, even if latter is dual-core. Best to bump its cpu/gpu speed and features around March, then wait for Merom to take over.

And the mini will not be replaced by an x86 Yonah dual-core version with the Holy Grail of DVR built-in - you've nearly doubled the price! Also, for economy Apple would have to dump the 2.5" HD in favor of cheaper, bigger & faster 3.5" models... No, if anything, Apple will intro a "Big mini" with those features, though I think it would have a different name.

The mini will live on, switching to Intel when the single-core Yonah is released around May of '06... Why? Remember the original appeal of the mini, other than its incredibly small size? It was the cost! Add all those other bells & whistles to make a dual-core DVR machine, and it leaves a gaping hole for Windows switchers to fall through.

[Norse Son]

AppleInsider had an article (see quote below) that states the Pent.M beats Yonah in single core applications (e.g. MS Word), but Yonah excels in apps designed to handle more number crunching (e.g. 3D). Couldn't the next MacMini and iBook be based on PM while the Powerbook gets Yonah?"

While Apple has undoubtedly had "Test Mules" running MacOS X for x86 in the basement of 1 Infinite Loop since the early days of Rhapsody, and featuring every flavor of Intel desktop, mobile & server cpu (probably AMD's, too), we won't see any of them. Why? One word: TPM... As in, Trusted Platform Module... As in DRM & copy-protection.

It is believed that Apple's x86 Developer machines had a TPM chip on them, which evidently failed to keep MacOS X x86 off generic PCs... However, you can bet that Apple will make more of an effort with the official machines they release next year, so I doubt you'll see anything older than Yonah, which gets its official unveiling the week before MWSF at CES.

Don't get me wrong, I think the Pentium M would be a fine choice for both the iBook and mini, but I just don't see Apple adopting a chip-design that's been out for a couple years already. And the TPM is the tipping point on this - I don't think the Celeron M or Pentium M have it, so you know Apple won't touch it.

And before Apple can start offering expanded choices of studios and networks on iTMS, as well as their feature films, miniseries and tv shows, they need to ensure those entities that Apple has done a credible job of protecting their product. That's likely the reason we haven't seen a higher bit-rate for downloads - they're testing the model... So Apple needs to do its best to provide both hardware & software DRM. And that starts with Yonah on the Napa platform, as well as Yonah on the ViiV platform.

[~Shard~]

<snip>



Excellent points, thanks for the insight. I have to agree with a lot of what you said. :cool:

[Tupring]

How much faster would a dual core intel at 1.5Ghz be than a 1.5Ghz G4? Would that speed increase overshadow the Current P-book line?I think they will be slower, since there will be Intel inside...

[~Shard~]

I think they will be slower, since there will be Intel inside...

You're probably conditioned to think "old Intel" though, not "new Intel". ;) Remember that Apple decided to make this transition based on Intel's future offerings, not what they currently have - we won't be seeing P4s and the like in the new Macs. All that being said, the existing Pentium Ms are well-performing chips nonetheless.

[EricNau]

... we won't be seeing P4s and the like in the new Macs...
Thank God.

[AidenShaw]

And the TPM is the tipping point on this - I don't think the Celeron M or Pentium M have it, so you know Apple won't touch it.
TPM is a feature on the mobo, the CPU chips are not relevant.

And, btw, yes there are Pentium M systems for sale with TPM embedded:

http://www.intel.com/pressroom/archive/releases/20030219corp_a.htm
http://h71016.www7.hp.com/dstore/MiddleFrame.asp?page=config&ProductLineId=447&FamilyId=1598&BaseId=13579&oi=E9CED&BEID=19701&SBLID=
http://shopper.cnet.com/4566-3126_9-0.html?filter=500374_11409906_
http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/compare.aspx/latit?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd

TPM + Centrino got 115,000 hits on Google....

[~Shard~]

Thank God.

Yonah, Merom, Conroe and Woodcrest - that's where it's at. :cool:

[Randall]

Don't get me wrong, I think the Pentium M would be a fine choice for both the iBook and mini, but I just don't see Apple adopting a chip-design that's been out for a couple years already. And the TPM is the tipping point on this - I don't think the Celeron M or Pentium M have it, so you know Apple won't touch it. Umm Yonah is Pentium M. The next signifigent release of a dirrerent design will be Merom in the end of 2006.

[AidenShaw]

...we won't be seeing P4s and the like in the new Macs...
The DTK is a 64-bit P4... :) So Apple *is* shipping P4 systems today.

IMO, Apple would be smart to bring out Powermacs with dual dual-core Xeons today.

Not replace the PPC machines, but sell some early adopter/development machines today so that companies can work on their multi-threaded code.

But I suppose, since OSx86 is so easy to crack and run on standard boxes, using quad core Dell Precision Workstations (http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/precn_470?c=us&cs=555&l=en&s=biz) is good enough.

[AidenShaw]

Umm Yonah is Pentium M.
But Yonah is not Dothan.

There are many significant changes in Yonah compared to Dothan (VT/SSE3/FP...). It's not the same chip.

Merom adds EM64T and higher performance (per Hz and per watt), but that doesn't mean that Yonah is "just a Dothan".

[Val-kyrie]

I doubt Apple is going to make a iBook with 17" widescreen, 7200 RPM, 128MB graphics, and SuperDrive so don't worry so much PowerBook sales.

[Later post]

This what I mean. It is a huge assumption that Apple will release a $1000 iBook with the performance of a AMD 64bit desktop. The reality of what Apple brings us in 3 more weeks might be quite different. We need to see the benchmarks of the actual iBook after its released. Apple has always done a good job of crippling the iBook line, I see no reason why this will be any different.

lasuther

Most comparisons which demonstrate the similar performance of the Intel Duo Core as it is now called (i.e. Yonah dual-core) use a 2.0 GHz Duo Core. It does compare favorably, but I wouldn't expect this performance out of a low-voltage chip in the 1.5 - 1.83 GHz range. Rather, we should expect a proportionate increase over the Dothan architecture for similarly clocked Duo Core chips. See this story at AnAndTech. (http://anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2648&p=1)

I could see Apple releasing an iBook with 13.3" widescreen, 5400 RPM (at least as an option), 64 or 128MB graphics, and DL SuperDrive. The PBs could be distinguished by bigger and higher resolution screens (e.g., Dell uses XGA, SXGA, for the Inspiron series while using the XGA+, SXGA+, for the Latitude series), and faster 7200 RPM HDDs (at least as an option). It would be nice if Apple's hardware was brought out of the Dark Ages.

[Val-kyrie]

I don't see the iBook getting Yonah before (or unless) the PowerBook does. The first version is the 32bit, dual-core dubbed Centrino Duo. It has a 667MHz frontside bus and 2MB of L2 cache, as well as the other bells & whistles of the Napa platform. The PowerBook has a 66MHz bus and 512k(?) of L2-cache... You do the math.

No, I think it will be PowerBooks "announced" at MWSF, available around the first week of February. The iBook will wait until May, for the single-core Yonah, dubbed Centrino Solo. Next after Yonah comes Merom (September-ish). This beast will be a 64bit, dual-core cpu.

I disagree. I think the iBook will get the Yonah (=Duo Core) first only because the low voltage will be ready first. The PBs will also be announced at MWSF but will not ship until the first week of Feb., when the higher voltage "performance" processors will be released. Certainly, the PBs will receive Merom when it is ready later in 2006, the only question will be when the iBooks will transition--probably with the release of Leopard or shortly thereafter.

[~Shard~]

The DTK is a 64-bit P4... :) So Apple *is* shipping P4 systems today.

IMO, Apple would be smart to bring out Powermacs with dual dual-core Xeons today.

Not replace the PPC machines, but sell some early adopter/development machines today so that companies can work on their multi-threaded code.

But I suppose, since OSx86 is so easy to crack and run on standard boxes, using quad core Dell Precision Workstations (http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/precn_470?c=us&cs=555&l=en&s=biz) is good enough.

Thanks for the clarification on that point. :)

Yeah, I see your point regarding the Xeon PowerMacs, and I'm not saying it would be a bad thing, but I just don't see it happening. I still think, rightly or wrongly, Apple will transition the PowerMacs last, in 2007, when Conroe/Woodcrest are available. Guess we'll see...

[GregA]

I still think, rightly or wrongly, Apple will transition the PowerMacs last, in 2007, when Conroe/Woodcrest are available. Guess we'll see...Well, the DTK has to be returned end of 2006, so I expect there'll be some desktop based machine for developers at that stage. Who knows what it'll be.

[~Shard~]

Well, the DTK has to be returned end of 2006, so I expect there'll be some desktop based machine for developers at that stage. Who knows what it'll be.

Yeah, I realize that, but I'm also taking into account Intel's current roadmap (subject to change of course!) for Conroe/Woodcrest and when it would be viable to see those chips in Apple hardware. As I said, guess we'll see how Apple decides to handle this. 2006 will indeed be a very interesting year!

[AidenShaw]

Well, the DTK has to be returned end of 2006, so I expect there'll be some desktop based machine for developers at that stage. Who knows what it'll be.
Merom (dual-core 64-bit) will be out before that, and Yonah (dual-core 32-bit) will be here before MWSF.

The normal way to support developers is to give them the tools (i.e. dual CPU and 64-bit systems) *before* you release them to the public.

That way you can have 3rd party apps ready *when* the new products ship, rather than waiting a long time.

[steeldrivingjon]

NEC's announced dual-core Yonah notebook is supposed to cost $2,000, and the feature set is not all that great.

That suggests to me that a dual-core Yonah would put an iBook squarely into Powerbook price range.

Which makes no sense. There's no point selling an iBook line that *starts* at the price of the midrange G4 Powerbook.

The only reason to assume the iBook is getting a Yonah first is that the Powerbooks were recently updated. But given how slight those upgrades were (pretty much just the screens), this is a pretty weak reason to bet on the iBook, especially given the price issue demonstrated by the NEC product.

My guess - PowerBooks get dual-core Yonahs. iBooks either a) get nothing for now, or b) get slightly faster PPC CPUs, or c) get form factor change with their current PPC CPUs.

Later this year, the iBooks will get single-core Yonahs and a price cut.

As for the mini, again given the price of that NEC Yonah laptop, I wonder if it might ship with a G5 instead of an Intel chip.

[Bubbasteve]

Well my Uncle just came back from buying his young children a pair of shuffles and he found it interesting when he was only given until the 8th (the day before the keynote) to return them, instead of the typical 30 day policy

[Cloud9]

So if these new intel machines are going to be out in jan/feb would that not mean leopard will be released simultaneously? I mean leopard will be the x86 os wont it?

[steeldrivingjon]

So if these new intel machines are going to be out in jan/feb would that not mean leopard will be released simultaneously? I mean leopard will be the x86 os wont it?

No. The x86s will run a version of Tiger, perhaps 10.4.4.

Leopard is due end of 2006.

[~Shard~]

So if these new intel machines are going to be out in jan/feb would that not mean leopard will be released simultaneously? I mean leopard will be the x86 os wont it?

To put it simply, no. Leopard will not be released until 2007 - even saying late 2006 is stretching it in my opinion. Jobs will provide us with more insight on Leopard possibly at MWSF at a very high level, but definitely in greater detail at WWDC. :cool:

[OCOTILLO]

What with all the things people here are predicting, I think there will be a lot of disappointed people on January 10.

I don't know if anyone noticed, but the Apple store is shutting down free shipping on qualifying items on January 9. Is this an omen of things to come?

[berkleeboy210]

Well AmEx just gave me a 2,000 credit limit increase so I'm ready to buy whatever comes out at the Expo on Jan. 10 :)

[Norse Son]

NEC's announced dual-core Yonah notebook is supposed to cost $2,000, and the feature set is not all that great.

... a dual-core Yonah would put an iBook squarely into Powerbook price range...

The only reason to assume the iBook is getting a Yonah first is that the Powerbooks were recently updated. But given how slight those upgrades were (pretty much just the screens), this is a pretty weak reason to bet on the iBook, especially given the price issue demonstrated by the NEC product...

Later this year, the iBooks will get single-core Yonahs and a price cut.

As for the mini, again given the price of that NEC Yonah laptop, I wonder if it might ship with a G5 instead of an Intel chip.
Wow! That pretty much sums up the logic I've been trying to use, but it hasn't appeared to register with a lot of people. Back in the Fall there was speculation that Yonah would be more expensive than the G4 based on those prices.

Here, this is from an Apple Insider article dated June 9th, 2005 entitled, "Intel's dual-core 'Yonah' chip could carry PowerBooks beyond 2GHz". In the chart it says the Yonah dual-core will run from 1.66GHz @ $241, 1.83GHz @ $294, 2GHz @ $423 and the 2.16GHz @ $637. It, also, lists the single-core 1.66GHz @ $209...

And there's this June 2nd article from C|Net, which explains the specs and shows just how different Yonah ("Centrino Duo/Solo") is from Dothan ("Pentium M"):
http://news.com.com/Intel+spills+beans+on+Yonah%2C+the+next+notebook+chip/2100-1006_3-5729925.html

Taking those price-points into account (quantities of 1,000), it's hard to justify any of the dual-cores in an iBook... "Maybe" the 1.66GHz dual-core for a hi-end iBook... Granted, Apple may get some discount if they buy "a few hundred thousand...", but it looks priced out of the sub-$500 mini range.

[balamw]

I don't know if anyone noticed, but the Apple store is shutting down free shipping on qualifying items on January 9.
Link?

B

[AvSRoCkCO1067]

New Apple Email offers free shipping until January 9th, 2006...

...at least we know new stuff is coming...lol

EDIT: Crud...someone else already noticed this.

[AvSRoCkCO1067]

Link?

B

It was in an email they sent me...

[DavoMrMac]

Well, I am sitting here after a tiring Chrimbo typing on my G4 12inch PBook running at 1.33GHz.

I also run a 2.1GHz iMac and a Dual 2.7GHz PMac.

Now, what do I use my PBook for. Well for lounging on my sofa (or in my garden if it ever stops snowing) and surfing the www, reading this forum, emails, IM, ebay, etc. On the odd occasion I will use PhotoShop or Quark, but only when I really need to as most of my serious work is done elsewhere.

What I am hoping for is a new iBook or PowerBook, with new design features, something that wows me like Apple always does. This new machine will likely replace the PB I am using now, as it will be suited to the task in hand, BUT and it is a BIG BUT, it will have to wow me, to make me part with my much loved PB. So come on everyone, let's here what you really want out of the new iBook or PBook apart from the Intel processor.

For starters:
13.3 or 12 inch WIDESCREEN
New style lid and form factor
Built in iSight (would be very nice)
Two buttons under trackpad (again can live without, but would be good)
Built in memory card reader
Front Row Version 2 App
PVR capabilities (again nice, but not essential)
Media Keys above function keys for iTunes
iR for Remote
A battery that fits flush ;-)

Anything else...

[b0x]

I believe that the iBook will be updated before the Powerbook because until most of the pro apps are ported to fat binaries an Intel machine will run the apps no faster than the PPC machine. Rosetta has a lot of work to do to emulate the PPC instruction set. Only old instruction sets run faster under emulaton than natively. This also gives apple time to use the next gen Memron chips in their flagship portables, when the full range of fat bin apps are released.

And anyway if you buy an iBook in the meantime before the new PB's come out you can always sell it on eBay and buy your new PB!

[~Shard~]

I believe that the iBook will be updated before the Powerbook .... This also gives apple time to use the next gen Memron chips in their flagship portables, when the full range of fat bin apps are released.


You really believe the PowerBooks will not be updated until Merom is available late in 2006? That's an awful long time without an upgrade, especially considering the iBooks will definitely be Intel at that time. I just don't see it happening. If the iBooks do indeed go Intel first, then it will be with the dual core Yonahs, which would mean that the PowerBooks would probably get the "performance edition" which will be released a short time afterwards. I could see that happening. Either that, or the PowerBooks gets updated first with the dual core Yonahs and the iBooks follow a few months afterwards when the single core versions are available. :cool:

[d00kie]

This is gonna be awesome if the rumors are true- they are a little too good to be true in the first place. I'm shopping for a laptop and I'm really considering going OS X even though I sold my iBook a month after I got it early last year...errr 2004 I mean.

[b0x]

You really believe the PowerBooks will not be updated until Merom is available late in 2006? That's an awful long time without an upgrade, especially considering the iBooks will definitely be Intel at that time. I just don't see it happening. If the iBooks do indeed go Intel first, then it will be with the dual core Yonahs, which would mean that the PowerBooks would probably get the "performance edition" which will be released a short time afterwards. I could see that happening. Either that, or the PowerBooks gets updated first with the dual core Yonahs and the iBooks follow a few months afterwards when the single core versions are available. :cool:


Single core Yonahs would be a performance down grade considering most of the software will run in emulation mode until FAT binaries are released. The minimum conifguration would be a dual core for the iBooks... And then the PB's with the performance Yonahs.

[hob]

I'm sure this has been mentioned before, but isn't it funny - if you invented a time machine and grabbed your average mac geek from 10 years ago, and showed them this news, they'd be shocked! Mac's are going to be almost unrecognisable from their predecessors... Not only is Mac OS X a total departure from anything they would have seen before, but Intel processors?!

Sorry, this just occurred to me. I shall be quiet.

[amateurmacfreak]

Ok, this is totally random and a question that I'm sure everyone as been discussing on this thread but I am too lazy to look to see, so.... XD Does everyone think that there will be probably be Intel iBooks in January at MWSF? Is that looking like what will happen? B/c I really hope so... and I think it will happen... just wanting everyone else's thoughts. :cool: :rolleyes: :)

[amateurmacfreak]

It's quite amazing how the only thing microsoft does right is a software suite for the opposition operating system ;)
Isn't it though? It's so wonderful and ironic. :D

[steeldrivingjon]

Single core Yonahs would be a performance down grade considering most of the software will run in emulation mode until FAT binaries are released. The minimum conifguration would be a dual core for the iBooks... And then the PB's with the performance Yonahs.

Single core Yonahs won't be out for a few months, giving third parties time to ship their fat binaries.

Dual-core Yonahs would put an iBook into PowerBook price territory; NEC announced a dual-core Yonah laptop, with a list price of $1999 - and apart from the dual-core CPU, the specs were pretty mediocre. There's no way that'd work for a product line that really needs to start at $999 or ideally $749.

There's really no reason to wait, even with the initial lack of fat binaries. The main thing that would accelerate the release of the fat binaries would be for Apple to ship production Intel machines. A fair number of customers would buy regardless, because they do development, or Java, or Unix stuff, or whatever.

People who need a fat binary of Photoshop are going to be waiting regardless of whether Apple has products in the stores. Apple's better off selling something to those customers who *can* buy now, rather than waiting for numerous third parties over which they have no control. And the customers who wait would benefit because they could buy machines after any first-release kinks get ironed out.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Jobs announce dual-core Powerbooks *this* week at CES, rather than waiting until next week. There'd be big advantages in demoing a dual-core OS X powerbook at CES in front of a crowd of potential corporate IT switchers, instead of waiting to wow the faithful next week.

Or, considering Intel's interest in media convergence, perhaps Jobs will demo a Yonah mini media center at CES.

[steeldrivingjon]

I disagree. I think the iBook will get the Yonah (=Duo Core) first only because the low voltage will be ready first. The PBs will also be announced at MWSF but will not ship until the first week of Feb., when the higher voltage "performance" processors will be released. Certainly, the PBs will receive Merom when it is ready later in 2006, the only question will be when the iBooks will transition--probably with the release of Leopard or shortly thereafter.

Dual core is probably too expensive for iBooks. NEC's dual-core Yonah line is supposed to start around $2k, but iBooks have to start at $999 if not lower.

[b0x]

Dual core is probably too expensive for iBooks. NEC's dual-core Yonah line is supposed to start around $2k, but iBooks have to start at $999 if not lower.

What if Apple have secured a better price than NEC for exclusivity and because of the long term single brand deal?

[b0x]

From Blizzards World of Warcraft Spec page:

Mac® OS X 10.3.9:
933 MHz or higher G4, or G5, or Intel processor
512 MB RAM or higher; DDR RAM recommended
ATI or NVIDIA® video hardware with 32 MB VRAM or more
6.0 GB available HD space
4x CD-Rom drive
56k or better Internet connection

They're coming people, they're coming soon!

[steeldrivingjon]

What if Apple have secured a better price than NEC for exclusivity and because of the long term single brand deal?

I'd be surprised if that could garner a big enough discount to allow a thousand dollar price difference.

[MacEffects]

Nice, I wonder how the Mac Minis will be.

Well, at least this proves the Mac Mini is doing well... I was getting worried :p

[dambro1978]

Why everybody thinks that Apple will stick to the ibook/powerbook dualism for their laptops!?!?
I think that they will merge the 2 books in one new portable line, (maybe called "UltraBooks"), with 2 different secreen sizes, -13.3 widescreen and 15.4 widesceen- with intel "Duo-Cores" "leap ahead" in them, with different video cards and hard disk options. They will have all a minumum standard that is 512 ram, DVD-RW DL, Airport Ext, Bluetooth 2.0, 3 USBs and 1 firewire, digital audio and video in and out.

13.3 widescreen is small enough to be compared to the actual 12inch size,
15.4 for more space, and no need for a 17inches. (if you want buy a UltraBooks and a cinema display on your desk.)

Ah sorry I forgot to tell you that this is just my dream........:) :D

[aswitcher]

I was wondering about eMacs. Surely they are in need of an update this year. Is Steve going to toss the CRT?

[aristobrat]

I thought that Apple stopped selling eMacs, except to educational places?

[EricNau]

I thought that Apple stopped selling eMacs, except to educational places?
They did.

Maybe their current supply would only last to the intel switch if they limited who could buy it, and soon we'll see a whole new eMac, only it will have Intel inside and look way better.
Who knows? :confused:

[jaw04005]

I ordered a customized Mac mini early last week from the Apple Store Online for my brother's upcoming birthday (Jan. 7). I received an email today telling me that my order has been cancelled due to an unexpected delay. :eek: Something is happening to the Mac mini's at MacWorld SF. :)

------

Unfortunately, the Apple Store failed to cancel the free printer (after rebate), extra power supply and discounted office (after rebate). So now I have a bunch of accessories shipping out today that I have to print off labels and return as soon as I receive them. :o I asked if I could just keep them and order a new Mac mini later, however they said I couldn't because you must have the printer and Office on the same receipt as your computer. :mad:

I'm sure the FedEx guy is going to love me. I'm just going to meet him at the door with a bunch of return labels. Haha.

[EricNau]

I ordered a customized Mac mini early last week from the Apple Store Online for my brother's upcoming birthday (Jan. 7). I received an email today telling me that my order has been cancelled due to an unexpected delay. :eek: Something is happening to the Mac mini's at MacWorld SF. :)

------

Unfortunately, the Apple Store failed to cancel the free printer (after rebate), extra power supply and discounted office (after rebate). So now I have a bunch of accessories shipping out today that I have to print off labels and return as soon as I receive them. :o I asked if I could just keep them and order a new Mac mini later, however they said I couldn't because you must have the printer and Office on the same receipt as your computer. :mad:

I'm sure the FedEx guy is going to love me. I'm just going to meet him at the door with a bunch of return labels. Haha.
Funny that the estimated ship time is still 1-2 days, I guess Apple is trying to hide it. :confused:

Anyways, this is good to hear. :)

[jaw04005]

Funny that the estimated ship time is still 1-2 days, I guess Apple is trying to hide it. :confused:

Anyways, this is good to hear. :)

Well this was customized with a 100GB hard drive, 56k modem and 1GB of ram. Maybe a part is just backordered? But, given the rumors—I would say there is good chance it was Macworld related.

[EricNau]

Well this was customized with a 100GB hard drive, 56k modem and 1GB of ram. Maybe a part is just backordered? But, given the rumors—I would say there is good chance it was Macworld related.
Even if it was just a part that was backordered, it still leads me to believe that they must be updating the mini, otherwise they would have just waited for that part to come in. For instance, if it was the 100GB HDD that was backordered, they are probably using a different HDD in the new mini. Therefore, Apple doesn't want to order any more of the current HDD.

[jaw04005]

Yes, I agree. I believe the week before WWDC they cancelled all the PowerMac G4 orders in anticipation of the PowerMac G5 announcement. This is sort of the same thing—where the product is going to get something more than just a speed bump. Otherwise, they would have just let me keep my order, and shipped the speed bumped mini when it became available.

Needless to say, I'm excited about Macworld now.

[EricNau]

Yes, I agree. I believe the week before WWDC they cancelled all the PowerMac G4 orders in anticipation of the PowerMac G5 announcement. This is sort of the same thing—where the product is going to get something more than just a speed bump. Otherwise, they would have just let me keep my order, and shipped the speed bumped mini when it became available.

Needless to say, I'm excited about Macworld now.
Yes, for Apple to actually cancel your order, it means they must have been out (of either the computer or a BTO part), and they don't plan on getting any more. This was money that you were willing to spend, Apple would gladly take it if they could have. Something is definitely going on.

I'm excited too. :)

[JW8725]

ok quick question:

If there is a new mini out soon, then the stock of old mac minis goes where exactly? Land fill site in India or recycled or what?

[Rowen]

I'm excited as well, I may pick up something depending on what they bring out!

[EricNau]

ok quick question:

If there is a new mini out soon, then the stock of old mac minis goes where exactly? Land fill site in India or recycled or what?
At places such as CompUSA, they will just be sold (so be careful on which mini you are buying).

At Apple the current stock of Mac Mini's will be kept for AppleCare reasons, and may also be sold as refurbs.

But Apple may not have as many as you think, in most cases Apple will cut down production before an update. (As joshuawaire pointed out, in some cases you can't buy the Mini anymore.)

[b0x]

ok quick question:

If there is a new mini out soon, then the stock of old mac minis goes where exactly? Land fill site in India or recycled or what?


They get sold to dealers who fire sale them to customers! At least that's what happens in Australia. Apple have a bidding process and dealer consortiums bid for the package, the winner can sell the machines at a vastly discounted price.

[macEfan]

Im glad I didn't buy my new mac yet! Hopefully I can get a better deal on an old mini now! :)

[JRM PowerPod]

Australia's largest reseller of Macs 'Streetwise' has listed the current model iBooks 12" 1.33GHZ and 14" 1.42GHZ that they have on display in their store as ex-demo's on their website. This has happened in the past before an update. It happened with the last series of PowerBook updates as well as the iMac's. http://www.streetwise.com.au/index.php?cPath=25_128

It seems as if updates of the iBooks at MWSF are pretty much guaranteed now. Now what are the specs?

[djtw]

And that Dell DJ Ditty has the advantage of actually being available, because 90 percent of all Ditties ever built are still available for sale.

Dell Ditty...yeah I wanna own something so completely lame sounding..no wonder it's not selling


....who the ****** is in charge of their marketing dept?

[aswitcher]

Well looks good for both Mac Mini and iBooks. :) Gotta resist
:( What big screen TV...

[bluedevil14]

does any one else think that the iBook will come in two different colors (black and white) like the iPods?

[WindowsSUCKSX5]

does any one else think that the iBook will come in two different colors (black and white) like the iPods?


Personally, I believe the new ibooks will come with the some sort of color option. I say this based on rumors posted over the last month that mention the new ibooks to be more stylish. I would like a black ibook, but we'll have to wait and see.

[bluedevil14]

Personally, I believe the new ibooks will come with the some sort of color option. I say this based on rumors posted over the last month that mention the new ibooks to be more stylish. I would like a black ibook, but we'll have to wait and see.
if they are going to have color option like the ipod i think apple should go ahead and take it a step further by having laser engraving as an opition too

[b0x]

All the questions we've been asking will be answered and more in less than a weeks time. I more excited about MacWorld than I was about Christmas!

[combatcolin]

All the questions we've been asking will be answered and more in less than a weeks time. I more excited about MacWorld than I was about Christmas!

Mark of a true Appleite.

Me too!

:p

Only i want a Powermac.

[WindowsSUCKSX5]

All i really can and need to say is that i guarantee new ibooks. It would be nice to see powerbooks aswell, but it has been ibooks that have had to wait the longest for updates. My guess for powerbook fans is that they will be announced and you will have a long shipping time to wait for them. Ibooks will be right away.

[Val-kyrie]

Here, this is from an Apple Insider article dated June 9th, 2005 entitled, "Intel's dual-core 'Yonah' chip could carry PowerBooks beyond 2GHz". In the chart it says the Yonah dual-core will run from 1.66GHz @ $241, 1.83GHz @ $294, 2GHz @ $423 and the 2.16GHz @ $637. It, also, lists the single-core 1.66GHz @ $209...

[Text Deleted]

Taking those price-points into account (quantities of 1,000), it's hard to justify any of the dual-cores in an iBook... "Maybe" the 1.66GHz dual-core for a hi-end iBook... Granted, Apple may get some discount if they buy "a few hundred thousand...", but it looks priced out of the sub-$500 mini range.

EXACTLY. There is no reason for Apple to not move to Dual-core Yonah chips given the close proximity in price between dual ($241) and single core ($209)--a measly difference of $32. Do you really think this will prevent Apple from putting dual-core chips in an iBook? On top of this, the single core won't be out until Spring! The only logic in your argument is that Yonah is too expensive for the consumer line and so by your logic, not your argument, Yonah should not see any immediate release in the consumer lines. If Apple goes Dothan, I go PC for my next lappie--it's time.

[kristoffer4]

UPS! Old news..

[zap2]

Well Macindsider is saying that;
Apple readying significant Mac mini update

By Kasper Jade
Published: 11:00 AM EST

Apple Computer has begun to inform service providers of a revision to its Mac mini desktop computer that is now expected to quietly make its debut in a matter of days.

According to documents shown to AppleInsider, the revision, which will bump the low-end Mac mini from 1.25GHz to 1.33GHz and the two higher-end models from 1.42GHz to 1.5GHz, was originally slated for release last Tuesday.

Sources say Apple will continue to market the three new Mac mini configurations at the current price points of $499, $599, and $699. All three models will ship standard with Mac OS X 10.4.2 and include faster hard drives operating at 5400-rpm. The current Mac minis include 4200-rpm drives.

In the graphics department, both the mid-range and high-end 1.5GHz Mac mini configurations will see their video memory doubled via ATI's Radeon 9200 64MB graphics card with AGP 4X support. The low-end 1.33GHz Mac mini will continue to ship with 32MB version of the card, sources said.

Updates to the Mac mini's wireless technologies are also expected in the revision. Sources say Apple has redesigned the Mac mini's mezzanine board to accommodate a revised AirPort Extreme and Bluetooth combo card, which will ship on the 1.5GHz models and include Bluetooth 2.0+EDR technology. While remaining backwards-compatible with Bluetooth 1.x, Bluetooth 2.0+EDR is up to three times faster, offering a maximum data rate of 3Mbps.

Finally, sources say the high-end 1.5GHz Mac mini configuration will also gain an 8x double-layer SuperDrive capable of double-layer DVD burning.

I am a little disapointed and I will wait for the Pentium version with, with onboard H.24 decoding/encoding and Ipod dock:D

Why do doubt this? 1) Because 10.4.2 is old, i mean Tiger Boxes already are sold with 10.4.3, and if this still a PPC update i doubt apple would be that stupid to update PPC Mac Mini when they would wait a little for intel Minis