New iBooks, Mac minis and iPod shuffles at MWSF 2006?

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

ThinkSecret cites (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0512yonah.html) "reliable sources" in reporting that Apple plans on introducing new iBooks, Mac minis and iPod shuffles at Macworld San Francisco (http://guides.macrumors.com) in January 2006.

Intel is expected to launch the dual-core version of Yonah -- its new notebook processor -- in January. Low-votage versions are expected to come in at 1.5GHz, 1.66GHz and 1.83GHz speeds, while the "performance" version will ship at 1.66GHz, 1.83GHz, 2.0GHz and 2.16GHz speeds.

ThinkSecret speculates that low-voltage 1.5GHz Yonah iBooks may see be announced in January, while "performance" Yonah procesors may come later in PowerBooks.

No further details about the Mac mini or iPod shuffle are available from the rumor site, although the 1GB iPod shuffle is presently out of stock (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2005/12/20051217124526.shtml) at the Apple store.

[bearcat2000]

Sounds like it could be an interesting January after all. I really am hoping for a Mac Mini DVR.

[Xephian]

Nice, I wonder how the Mac Minis will be.

[Over Achiever]

And my dad just bought a cheap Dell PC on his own accord ... just one more month until the Mac minis. Well more like just 3 more weeks. =/

[Randall]

ThinkSecret speculates that low-voltage 1.5GHz Yonah iBooks may see be announced in January, while "performance" Yonah procesors may come later in PowerBooks.
Why wait on Powerbooks? If Apple updates the iBooks any more then they already are without touching the Powerbooks, then the iBooks will be better. Especially considering that the dual core Yonah's will be available in January, and they will surely blow the G4 away. I think that would make the Powerbook owners livid, and this better not be true. I didn't pay for a top-end laptop only to have it be blown out by the lower end line. **************

[wkhahn]

How much faster would a dual core intel at 1.5Ghz be than a 1.5Ghz G4? Would that speed increase overshadow the Current P-book line?

[Deepdale]

Definitely something to anticipate in the next few weeks.

[minimax]

Dualcore iBook Yonahs?? That will totally destroy the G4 powerbook performance wise. Doesnt make sense if there arent new dualcore powerbooks (perhaps the 8641D?) as well.

[Randall]

How much faster would a dual core intel at 1.5Ghz be than a 1.5Ghz G4? Would that speed increase overshadow the Current P-book line?Well, since it's dual core, it would be twice as fast. :) And yes, given native x86 applications, they will run faster on a dual core Yonah then they will on a G4.

[Diatribe]

iBooks before Powerbooks wouldn't make a whole lot of sense.

[Hydra]

Well, since it's dual core, it would be twice as fast. :) And yes, given native x86 applications, they will run faster on a dual core Yonah then they will on a G4.
It's hell alot faster even if it was just single too :eek:

[Object-X]

Wouldn't an Intel iBook canabalize sales of the G4 Powerbook? Or is Apple willing to suffer the loss? Or maybe they just have to eat it. It will certainly be interesting to see the benchmarks.

[HiRez]

I'm not sure they are dual-core. Isn't Intel producing the low-voltage Yonahs as single-cores (with the "performance" models being dual)? I can't remember where I read it, but I thought I saw something about low-end single-core Yonahs somewhere.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, I can't imagine a single-core 1.5 GHz being very fast,,, vs/ the G4, especially if it has to run Rosetta emulation for a bunch of stuff...so single-core doesn't seem right to me...hmm.

[p0intblank]

Wow... all this hype is really getting to me! I need that Mac mini now! A dual-core 1.5 GHz mini would own my PowerBook at more than half the price! Not only that, but I'll be able to install both OS X and Windows on it. There are some Windows apps that I use that are not currently available for OS X, so it would be great not having to boot up my PC just for that one program. January cannot come soon enough! :D

[minimax]

How much faster would a dual core intel at 1.5Ghz be than a 1.5Ghz G4? Would that speed increase overshadow the Current P-book line?

the Yonah most likely will be only slightly faster on media applications like photoshop, encoding etc., but much faster (up to 50%) in rendering applications. If you add an average 50% performance increase for a dualcore the difference in performance could exceed the 100% on certain applications.

[Randall]

I'm not sure they are dual-core. Isn't Intel producing the low-voltage Yonahs as single-cores?Not until Spring of 2006. Which is why an updated iBook makes no sense. iBooks will be updated for the summer, while Powerbooks should be getting the much needed love NOW!

A dual-core 1.5 GHz mini would own my PowerBook at less than half the price!That's exactly the reason why it won't happen. :p


A scary thought would be ThinkSecret using this forum as it's "reliable sources"

[BornAgainMac]

I noticed Powerbook owners are targeted the most. In the past, they were upset because of the iMac. It got a G5 before the Powerbook and now it turns out it never will get a G5. They argued that a consumer machine shouldn't be faster than a pro machine.

Powerbook owners were probably upset with the iBook getting the G4 with speeds too close to the Powerbook.

I have a Powerbook and I don't want to hold up the other product lines because I can't buy a better Powerbook. Please update the Mini, iBook, and the iPod shuffle. Let the shuffle have more flash space than my Powerbook's disk space. I don't want to hold up Apple.

[Thanatoast]

Yes, powerbook sales will tank while the ibooks go intel first. And when the powerbooks get released later in 06, they will beat the ibooks in performance again, and up will no longer be down and cats and dogs will no longer sleep together. The world will begin to revolve again. No worries.

[maya]

Maybe the PowerBook will be announced at MWSF "06 however shipped a few months later. :)

If there is going to be a 2GB Shuffle, I am gonna get one if it has a screen. ;) :D

Now I need to see the new case designs. ;)

[kingcrowing]

this will be interesting, I want a new powerbook, but I dunno what Im gonna do if there are dual core intel iBooks! maybe a Yonah iBook+refurb powermac G5...

[aaronsullivan]

The "native" part is the important reason that a Powerbook G4 will probably still outperform a dual core Intel iBook. The professional apps that people buy Powerbooks for are simply not native yet, so they'll be running at a snails pace in Rosetta.

That's the possibility, anyways. Perhaps Rosetta has been vastly improved or some of the major professional apps have been secretly updated (for free.) Although it's not likely, Apple likes big surprises.

Dual core does NOT mean twice as fast for most everything you do on your computer (especially what people do with their iBooks.) Not remotely.

Plus, there have been mentions of the iBook appealing to the female market. If the iBook looks like a glamourous hight tech compact (as in: for make-up) people may still want the slick professional looking Powerbook. :P

I, too, am hoping for a Tivo killer on-demand mega media center mac mini thingy. I think there is major pent up demand for a smart, simple, non-subscription take on a device like this, and Apple is THE one to do this. The sooner, the better... how about in three weeks?! I'm giving that one a 50% chance of showing up though. I think rumors would be much more solid on this, if it was truly coming.

I'm still extremely excited for Macworld. It's almost better than Christmas morning as a child, isn't it?

[iDM]

This is gonna sound like a wet blanket comment but I am currently on a 1.25ghz G4 powerbook and even though I upped the ram I have not had a single time where I have had to wait for programs to open or iPhoto to load with 10K in pictures. I guess this will really help people doing editing of Video work and what not. So even though a dual-core would obviously demolish this machine I really would have no use for it. I'm looking at my new computer possibly being a Quad PowerMac once the top of the line PowerMacs are given these Intel behemoths. I guess there really isn't a point to this post, just that I am smitten with this 2 year old powerbook and for what i use it for I have no reason to upgrade as long as Apple keeps putting out such good machines. Now all i need is a bigger monitor the landscape on the 15" is lacking a little since it has become my desktop computer. (I bought it for a semester an a half abroad and for traveling back and forth during holidays in college, but now i am graduated and not traveling as much)

[joepunk]

I noticed Powerbook owners are targeted the most. In the past, they were upset because of the iMac. It got a G5 before the Powerbook and now it turns out it never will get a G5. They argued that a consumer machine shouldn't be faster than a pro machine.

Powerbook owners were probably upset with the iBook getting the G4 with speeds too close to the Powerbook.

I have a Powerbook and I don't want to hold up the other product lines because I can't buy a better Powerbook. Please update the Mini, iBook, and the iPod shuffle. Let the shuffle have more flash space than my Powerbook's disk space. I don't want to hold up Apple.Same here. I don't really mind not having the latest, fastest processor in a PB before they are introduced in other machines. This way, I can see/read how the new processors respond and how people respond back.

[suzerain]

My worthless opinion about all this laptop nonsense is this:

The reason there is all this confusion about Apple's upcoming low-end portable lineup is that the rumor sites are trying to make everything fit into the current product matrix, but I think Apple is going to change it.

Like, for example, Appleinsider was reporting that the 12" PowerBook will disappear. I have a hard time believing this, because that machine sold well (I see them everywhere).

So, what seems more likely is that the iBook line will stop being crippled (i.e., will be able to push a second external display), so that it negates the need for a pro version of their small laptop, or Apple is going to announce a third line of laptops entirely. In other words, the high end remains similar (15" and 17" screens), at the low-end we have some stripped down iBook for budget consumers, and in the middle, we have some kind of new entrant...kind of busting the 12" out as its own category: a true Apple subnotebook.

The specifics of what I'm saying are irrelevant, but my general point is: I believe we're going to see some truly new Apple products...not just the same laptops with different guts.

[ariechel]

I can think of only three rationales for putting Intel processors in the iBook (consumer line) before the Powerbook (professional line):

1. The new iBook will have less features than the Powerbook. Professionals will still buy the Powerbook because they need the features it provides (better screen, better connectivity, whatever...).

2. The new iBook will be slower than the Powerbook, at least for certain applications. This could happen if the iBook gets a processor other than Yonah or if Rosetta emulation is worse than we expect. Alternatively, the Powerbook gets a better G4 at the same time (dual-core, better FSB), narrowing the gap.

3. The iBook is the new Powerbook.

Discuss...

[slb]

I haven't heard much about iMacs lately. Happy to see the other models (particularly portables) get updated, but I was looking forward to getting an Intel-based iMac to replace my Mac mini. Hope I don't have to wait too long. :(

[aaronsullivan]

This is gonna sound like a wet blanket comment but I am currently on a 1.25ghz G4 powerbook and even though I upped the ram I have not had a single time where I have had to wait for programs to open or iPhoto to load with 10K in pictures. I guess this will really help people doing editing of Video work and what not. So even though a dual-core would obviously demolish this machine I really would have no use for it. I'm looking at my new computer possibly being a Quad PowerMac once the top of the line PowerMacs are given these Intel behemoths.
This isn't making sense to me. Why don't you get an old used PowerMac G4? Since "I have not had a single time where I have had to wait for programs to open or iPhoto to load with 10K in pictures" on your powerbook?

You could buy a couple monitors with the money you'd save.

[kingcrowing]

the fastes old powermac G4 was only dual 1.42GHz, once there are new intel powermacs the quad G5s will go WAY down in price (the dual 2.5 is now worth around $2k, when it was worth over $3k a few years ago) so I figure by the time intel powermacs are commonplace (by 2007ish) the price of the current Quad will be signifigantly lowered, and also by then programs will be more demanding and we will probably have 10.5 by then, and more processing power will be better for that as well.

More Power is never a liability

[nubrandon]

Anyone still holding on to the idea that Powerbooks are coming before iBooks needs to be slapped. Apple is quick to replace its older products with newer ones but not that quick. For the last few years it has always been the same schedule for updates on products. Low end in the beginning of the year & high end later in the year. Why would apple ever replace a powerbook model after only a few months. That is completley illogical for the current patterns we've seen from apple.

[JoeG4]

Don't you dummies realize they can still launch an updated PB line a few days later? Apple's been known to do huge announcements at MWSF, and then do even bigger ones a few days after.

Or just as big ones!

Whatever they wish to do *shrug* I already have a laptop and don't even really care about the whole x86 thing, but new macs = New Macs, and that means new things to drool over at MacWorld, so I'm looking forward to it!

Plus my bro will be getting a new Mac Mini sooner or later, and the next gen one will be the ticket now (or a firehouse sale G4 one!)

[Photorun]

iBooks before Powerbooks wouldn't make a whole lot of sense.

If you're paying attention yes... yes it would.

iBooks are consumer products, Apple already had ported their iLife and iWorks to Intel binaries, these products will run already optimized on new machines without the Rosett performance hit, and this is important, not to mention iBooks, Mac Minis, and iMacs are (at the moment) equal to larger sellers than the "performance" machines (PowerMacs, Powerbooks).

The latter machines are usually, in some mindset, for professionals (though this isn't exclusive). Adobe, Macromedia, 'insert pro app here', will all take a massive Rosetta hit, one that would be oft putting to I'm sure probably yourself (if you use those) or anyone.

Consumer software by Apple is ready to go with Intel, and the new consumer line up of hardware is ready, this will also give some type of test bed for the roadmap. It's the most logical fit from a business perspective, maybe not to all the Powerbook "wah boohoo where's my G5 PB" types, but then again, Powerbook whiners haven't used logic in these parts since 2001.

[aaronsullivan]

(Just about 100% off topic, but it's a reply to the iMac question)

iMac won't come for another 4 or 5 months right? This iMac was basically for the Holiday season and it will carry for awhile. Who knows what the iMac will become if there is truly a mac mini media device. Is the iMac going to become a media hub with the display screen included? Maybe bigger displays?

What if it was a projector? Set up your computer to face the wall and use the wall as your screen. That way you could put it close to a wall to use it like a computer, or put it way back to use it like a movie screen. :P

Or is the iMac going to become a more serious computing device...

You know, I'd like to see a little Apple terminal type thing that you keep around the kitchen by the phone, but very portable. You know, so friends and family can grab it and put it anywhere to surf, or show you their website, or check their mail... but you put it back by the phone and use it for addresses and directions and recipes and playing music. Like a tinier version of the original iMac with a mega cheap screen to keep the costs down and an all in one design (maybe with an attached keyboard and track pad and a dock for iPods... hmm... The processor could be slow, too...

What AM I going on about? :D

[Photorun]

Don't you dummies realize they can still launch an updated PB line a few days later?

No... no they don't realize, hence this thread may turn into a typical PB WhinerFest™.

[combatcolin]

I wonder if the Mac Mini will be able to work as a Freeview box?

Certainly got bags of grunt to do it.

Some sort of USB adaptor to get a signal in?

[Randall]

Anyone still holding on to the idea that Powerbooks are coming before iBooks needs to be slapped. Apple is quick to replace its older products with newer ones but not that quick. For the last few years it has always been the same schedule for updates on products. Low end in the beginning of the year & high end later in the year. Why would apple ever replace a powerbook model after only a few months. That is completley illogical for the current patterns we've seen from apple.Are you gonna slap me with your iBook? If that is the only reason you have for not upgrading the Powerbook then it is you that needs the slapping. :D

[combatcolin]

No... no they don't realize, hence this thread may turn into a typical PB WhinerFest™.

Lol

So, SO true.

"I've spent £1500 on my Powerbook and a £1,00,000 IBM supercompuer goes faster, I WANT MY MONEY BACK" etc

[CalfCanuck]

... but then again, Powerbook whiners haven't used logic in these parts since 2001.
Well said!

Luckily most of the people here are not running businesses ... (into the ground!)

[muffinman]

i dont ever think the new ibook will replace the upcoming new powerbook.

I wonder if the new shuffles will have screens? colour hopefully?

[Randall]

No... no they don't realize, hence this thread may turn into a typical PB WhinerFest™.As funny as this is, if I paid close to double what you paid, i'd expect a superior machine. Upgrading the iBooks to Mactels (and leaving the G4 in the Powerbook) is not only bad business, it's just plain stupid. Anything that has a G4 in it should be gone by the time the ball drops in Times Square to 2006. Replace the Mac mini, Powerbook, and iBook with better processors. (Of course the best of the best will be reserved for the Powerbook).

[iris_failsafe]

I think they would have to release them at the sdame time (ibook & powerbook) or else you will have your consumer line more powerful than your professional line.

I think if you see one, you will se the other...

[Project]

Ive only been a Mac user for a few short months, but im getting tired of these 'rumours' sites already. How long are they going to come out with this 'our sources...' bull? So far, weve been told by'our sources' that Macworld will display new Powerbooks, no Powerbooks, Mac Minis, iBooks, iWork, iPhoto with Aperture features, Cinema Displays, possibly a new entertainment hub, Front Row 2.0, thinner laptops (hilarious), Yonahs, dual core Yonahs, no dual core Yonahs til Summer, no Firewire, Firewire 800, increased Nano flash storage, new Shuffles etc

Is there anything these sites and 'our sources' have NOT suggested that will appear at Macworld? Its like, whatever IS announced they will be sure to post their obligatory 'as reported by us 6 months ago'. Common sense dictates that anything other than iMacs and Powermacs can appear at Macworld, so why do people still take these rumour sites so seriously?

Lets just sit quietly and look forward to what will be a landmark event.

[DakotaGuy]

I haven't heard much about iMacs lately. Happy to see the other models (particularly portables) get updated, but I was looking forward to getting an Intel-based iMac to replace my Mac mini. Hope I don't have to wait too long. :(

Hmm... I might be the only one left on this board that thinks this, but...the iMac G5 is not really a slow computer. If you need a new Mac, I can't see anything wrong with going G5 at this time. You would be suprised at the performance increase going from a Mac Mini to an iMac G5 right now.

[munckee]

It may not be a question of what they WANT to do. Perhaps they're waiting to put the post-yonah chips into powerbooks, which might take longer to come out. In the meantime, why wait on the ibooks just so they don't outpower the powerbooks? Just a question of patience on our part.

[p0intblank]

i dont ever think the new ibook will replace the upcoming new powerbook.

I wonder if the new shuffles will have screens? colour hopefully?

I don't get why so many people want to see a shuffle with a screen. I just don't get it! If you want a larger capacity iPod with a screen, then go for a nano. That's exactly why they are there. The price may be a little more up there, but it's worth it for what you are getting. I don't own a shuffle yet, but I will sooner or later. I won't be buying one in hope of a screen. It'd be my "throw it in my pocket and forget it" MP3 player. It's small and sleek. It's perfect without a screen. It is selling so well, so why dramatically change it? The only shuffle update I see coming is an increase in capacity.

[kainjow]

I wonder if the new shuffles will have screens? colour hopefully?
shuffle + screen = nano

[~Shard~]

BTW...First post

What do you want, a cookie? :rolleyes: :cool:

iBooks before Powerbooks wouldn't make a whole lot of sense.

Yes, but keep in mind Apple did essentially the same thing with the iMacs and PowerMacs. The new iMacs came out with PCIe graphics and DDR2 RAM before the PowerMacs, which followed soon thereafter. The iBooks haven't been updated as recently as the PowerBooks have, so I could see this strategy being implemented - release the dual core Yonahs in the iBooks, then the "performance" version in the PowerBooks shortly thereafter.

As for the Mac mini, I would love to see it turn into some sort of PVR/DVR - I wonder if there will be a tie-in with VIIV...

[SiliconAddict]

I want my new and improved PowerBook now damn it! NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW! I've been waiting 3 years. If I have to wait another 4 months I'm going to go on a homicidal rampage! http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/images/smiles/new_2gunsfiring_v1.gif:eek: :(

Yah yah I know....http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/images/smiles/boohoo.gif

[Project]

I don't get why so many people want to see a shuffle with a screen. I just don't get it! If you want a larger capacity iPod with a screen, then go for a nano. That's exactly why they are there. The price may be a little more up there, but it's worth it for what you are getting. I don't own a shuffle yet, but I will sooner or later. I won't be buying one in hope of a screen. It'd be my "throw it in my pocket and forget it" MP3 player. It's small and sleek. It's perfect without a screen. It is selling so well, so why dramatically change it? The only shuffle update I see coming is an increase in capacity.

Better yet, tell me why NOT have a screen? An OLED one at that. Some sort of visual feedback on what im listening to would be nice, without having to spend the extra $ on a Nano. what if I want to skip to a part of a podcast I know is at the 20:57 timescale. How do i do that without a screen?

Also, especially given that the Shuffle is perfect for the gym, and the Nano is a bit too precious for ruff and tumble (not that it would break, just easily mark).

Just because you like it without a screen, doesnt mean its perfect without a screen.

For me, 512mb / 1gb is the sweetspot for a Shuffle. 1GB without a screen isnt that cool.

Nano can be pushed to 4gb / 6gb etc.

Please stop with this Shuffle + Screen = nano nonsense. There is a market for both.

[SiliconAddict]

What do you want, a cookie? :rolleyes: :cool:




Sure...why not. I still have left overs from Friday's batch

http://www.pyromosh.org/images/bbs/have_a_cookie.gif :D

[Randall]

What do you want, a cookie? :rolleyes: :cool:



Yes, but keep in mind Apple did essentially the same thing with the iMacs and PowerMacs. The new iMacs came out with PCIe graphics and DDR2 RAM before the PowerMacs, which followed soon thereafter. The iBooks haven't been updated as recently as the PowerBooks have, so I could see this strategy being implemented - release the dual core Yonahs in the iBooks, then the "performance" version in the PowerBooks shortly thereafter.

As for the Mac mini, I would love to see it turn into some sort of PVR/DVR - I wonder if there will be a tie-in with VIIV...I don't consider a Higher Resolution screen an "upgrade" any more then just a "Sorry we can't get the G5 into a Powerbook, so here is your higher resolution screen to hold you over until June of 2006 because we're going to make the iBooks better then your Powerbook I hope you don't mind"

[EricNau]

Hmm... I might be the only one left on this board that thinks this, but...the iMac G5 is not really a slow computer. If you need a new Mac, I can't see anything wrong with going G5 at this time. You would be suprised at the performance increase going from a Mac Mini to an iMac G5 right now.
You are right, the iMac G5 is NOT a slow computer whatsoever. But once the intels come out, all of the new software coming out will be Intel - not PowerPC (for the most part). It's a hard decision to make.

[kainjow]

I want my new and improved PowerBook now damn it! NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW! I've been waiting 3 years. If I have to wait another 4 months I'm going to go on a homicidal rampage! http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/images/smiles/new_2gunsfiring_v1.gif:eek: :(
I think you need a holiday break ;)

[~Shard~]

I haven't heard much about iMacs lately.

Really? Guess you must have missed the huge update to the iMac product line a couple short months ago... :p ;)

Happy to see the other models (particularly portables) get updated, but I was looking forward to getting an Intel-based iMac to replace my Mac mini. Hope I don't have to wait too long. :(

I think you will indeed be waiting a while.

1) Apple will be focusing on the portables first, as they are in the most need of improvement
2) Apple will be focusing on getting rid of the G4 machines first and transitioning those to Intel. There is nothing wrong with the G5s and no immediate need to change them
3) There is a lot of room for the G5 iMac to grow. The current machines are fast, and if Apple threw a 970MP in them, they would last a long time without needing an update
4) on the desktop side of things, Apple is focusing on Conroe and Woodcrest. This is why the PowerMac will not go Intel until 2007, and why the iMac might be in the same boat

I look for an Intel iMac later in 2006. My advice to you is don't hold your breath! :cool:

[Dont Hurt Me]

Im sure Mini will ship with the lowest Yonah which is why Apple hasnt even bothered mentioning it has a 1.5 G4. A 1.66 Yonah in Mini and a 64 or 128 mb video chip will make it a great little machine.:) Its taken years to Boot Motoscale but Apple is on the verge. Im sure both books will get the update at the same time because if not Apple will have ibooks faster then powerbooks unless some serious handicapping is going on. I predict new books and a new mini. G5 isnt all that people, 2 G5s = 1 Intel/AMD Its going to be an exciting year.

[SiliconAddict]

I think you need a holiday break ;)


Naaa I broke years ago... :eek: ;)

[jlewis2k1]

this is how i see it when apple does release a powerbook intel you guys are going to complain because it not fast enough or the specs are crappy. plus, didnt the powerbooks just got updated recently? also, powerbooks are pro line laptops so it would make more sense if they updated them in a WWDC over a MacWorld conference. So, why sit here and say its not fair for an iBook to be updated before a powerbook? They probably want to start with consumer and education lines first before jumping into pro lines. Seriously, do you really think that apple will jump into the pro lines and find out it will back fire? It does makes more sense if they started with consumer lines first over pro line.

[~Shard~]

I don't consider a Higher Resolution screen an "upgrade" any more then just a "Sorry we can't get the G5 into a Powerbook, so here is your higher resolution screen to hold you over until June of 2006 because we're going to make the iBooks better then your Powerbook I hope you don't mind"

That's fair enough - I wouldn't consider it an upgrade either per se, but it was a "product refresh" or some similar marketing term to make people feel better. ;) But yes, in the end, I think the iBooks will get updated to Intel first, then the PowerBooks - and people will just have to deal with it. I think it wil all come down to how Jobs positions it during his keynote (or if he says anything at all for that matter! :eek: )

But once the intels come out, all of the new software coming out will be Intel - not PowerPC (for the most part). It's a hard decision to make.

No it won't - it will be universal binary and work on both platforms for years to come. :cool:

[Dont Hurt Me]

Imac is ready for Yonah for all practical purposes. It would be easy for Apple to pop in a Yonah in iMac. Also iMac is maxed out with G5 at the moment thats why it got a .1 ghz boost:rolleyes: plus without a gigantic cooling system you just aint getting anything else out of G5 in that imac. Yonah's wll be exceeding that single G5. watch and see.

[Thomas Harte]

Im sure Mini will ship with the lowest Yonah which is why Apple hasnt even bothered mentioning it has a 1.5 G4. A 1.66 Yonah in Mini and a 64 or 128 mb video chip will make it a great little machine.
The GPU question is the thing I'm most concerned about. Assuming they do stick more or less to the current product matrix, now that they're cosy with Intel, allowing for the present tiny speed difference between the iBook and PowerBook and the rumours of the iBook coming first could we perhaps see low end products featuring only those low featured formerly-PowerVR Intel chipsets? Whatever comes out in January, if anything, I'm not going to look at it twice unless it has something with GL Shading Language fragment shader support. Especially with the advances in Core Image and Quartz Extreme 2D - that latter already in Tiger but not yet enabled (so presumably still buggy?), even the slowest GeForce Go FX or Radeon Mobility 9550 from the current iBook are infinitely preferable to the Radeon 9200 that the Mini currently has and the cheap Intel solutions.

[MacsRgr8]

PPC PowerBook can still last a little while, at least until the Pro-software (Adobe CS, Final Cut studio) is Intel-ready.

But it will be pretty weird to read over at Barefeats that an iNtell-iBook will be faster at MP3 encoding, gaming, Safari webpage rendering, etc... than a PowerBook ;)

[~Shard~]

Imac is ready for Yonah for all practical purposes. It would be easy for Apple to pop in a Yonah in iMac. Also iMac is maxed out with G5 at the moment thats why it got a .1 ghz boost:rolleyes: plus without a gigantic cooling system you just aint getting anything else out of G5 in that imac. Yonah's wll be exceeding that single G5. watch and see.

Perhaps Apple will stick a single core Yonah in the iMac mid-year, once they are released - that is a possibility as well which I didn't mention above. With only the dual core Yonahs being available right away, Apple will focus on the portable line for starters. Depending what re-engineering would be involved, Apple will the have to make the decision whether it is more feasible to stick a 970MP or a Yonah in the iMac...

[kainjow]

Sheesh.. if the x86 iBook is faster then your PowerBook, buy it! Or be patient and wait for the new PB.

[MacsRgr8]

Sheesh.. if the x86 iBook is faster then your PowerBook, buy it! Or be patient and wait for the new PB.


The problem is... faster in what ?!?

[~Shard~]

Sheesh.. if the x86 iBook is faster then your PowerBook, buy it! Or be patient and wait for the new PB.

As I said, it will all depend on how Jobs positions it. If the Intel iBooks are indeed released, then Jobs would be wise to make mention of the upcoming Intel PowerBooks as well - specifically when they will be released and what advantages they have over the Intel iBooks - i.e. why should prospective PowerBook buyers wait and not just buy an iBook instead.

My only concern is if Steve somehow pointlessly cripples this first batch of Intel iBooks such that they won't seem to blow the PowerBooks away in an effort to not cannibalize PowerBook sales - that would be just plain stupid.

[yoak]

I think the ibook will be updated before the PB as well. I´m sure Apple is willing to take a hit in PB sale, they might not even have that many left;)

[CmdrLaForge]

Bring them on !

[EricNau]

I think you will indeed be waiting a while.

1) Apple will be focusing on the portables first, as they are in the most need of improvement
2) Apple will be focusing on getting rid of the G4 machines first and transitioning those to Intel. There is nothing wrong with the G5s and no immediate need to change them
3) There is a lot of room for the G5 iMac to grow. The current machines are fast, and if Apple threw a 970MP in them, they would last a long time without needing an update
4) on the desktop side of things, Apple is focusing on Conroe and Woodcrest. This is why the PowerMac will not go Intel until 2007, and why the iMac might be in the same boat

I look for an Intel iMac later in 2006. My advice to you is don't hold your breath! :cool:
...And Apple is more competitive (in terms of market share) with other companies in the notebook area. It only makes sense to update them first.

[~Shard~]

I think the ibook will be updated before the PB as well. I´m sure Apple is willing to take a hit in PB sale, they might not even have that many left;)

It's all a mater of timing. In a perfect world (as Jobs would see it) the single core Yonahs would have been available at the same time as the dual core Yonahs. Then, he could have slapped the single cores into the iBooks and the dual cores into the PowerBooks. Unfortunately, the single cores are not going to be released for a little while yet. So Apple has to work with what they have, and if it makes the most sense to update the iBooks first, then so be it. The PowerBooks will follow shortly thereafter regardless (presumably), so it isn't really that big of a deal.

[SiliconAddict]

Imac is ready for Yonah for all practical purposes. It would be easy for Apple to pop in a Yonah in iMac. Also iMac is maxed out with G5 at the moment thats why it got a .1 ghz boost:rolleyes: plus without a gigantic cooling system you just aint getting anything else out of G5 in that imac. Yonah's wll be exceeding that single G5. watch and see.


Huh . . I don't know. I don't think Apple is going to Yonahize anything other then the low end desktops (Mac Mini) and eventually all of their laptops. (Single core for the iBooks.) Yonah is a good CPU but it falls short on FP intensive apps like video encoding and such. Its not BAD but to put it another way. The Pentium D which by most accounts is a craptastic implementation of dual cores kicks the snot out of Yonah in this preview benchmark of video encoding. (http://anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2627&p=6) IMHO I don't expect the iMac until this Fall. Just in time for back to school sales. . . Timing is everything. :)

[leenoble]

The distinction between powerbooks and ibooks used to be G3/G4. Now that they'll all have completely new processors, why bother distinguishing them. We could see an entirely new line of laptop which will run from the low end to the high end. These new iBooks could replace both the current i and Powerbooks which would all be discontinued. Then in 6 months when the new processors arrive they just add faster models to the lineup and shunt the slowest one off the shelf.

[combatcolin]

"Intel is expected to launch the dual-core version of Yonah -- its new notebook processor -- in January. Low-votage versions are expected to come in at 1.5GHz, 1.66GHz and 1.83GHz speeds, while the "performance" version will ship at 1.66GHz, 1.83GHz, 2.0GHz and 2.16GHz speeds."

Whats votage when its at home?

:D

[Dont Hurt Me]

Perhaps Apple will stick a single core Yonah in the iMac mid-year, once they are released - that is a possibility as well which I didn't mention above. With only the dual core Yonahs being available right away, Apple will focus on the portable line for starters. Depending what re-engineering would be involved, Apple will the have to make the decision whether it is more feasible to stick a 970MP or a Yonah in the iMac...970mp isnt going in iMac be assured, Yonah will. Single Cores for the Consumer, Duals,Quads for the pro's. This is going to be a great year and i wouldnt put it past Apple to have all machines Intel by the end of 2006.

[esaleris]

You guys are too hopeful, I think. Apple has made an effort to be more price competitive with the other PC providers. It's the one of the big reasons they moved to Intel. You guys keep thinking for the fancy - Yonah, this, dual-core that. Let me tell you, we'll see the iBook will debut with a Celeron M processor at a ~$700 price range. That's what Apple needs to do to win market share, and I don't see why they'd even bother with anything better for their iBooks.

And you all here on this thread have proven the point as well - if they release an iBook with spectacular performance, they are killing their own sales of a higher-end line. Most of this thread, has in fact, proven the confusion that might result if Apple doesn't pair performance and pricing in a logical way for consumers. Segmentation is key, in order to attract customers at different price ranges. What better way than to cripple the iBook a bit, lower the price to engage the wider audience, and call it a day.

Now, you and I might scoff at the Celeron M, but do you think most of the buyers of the new iBook - Dad, Mom and Grandparents with the lower price - would even understand. Add that to the fact that Apple will probably not participate with the Intel advertising stipend (putting Celeron M stickers on their machines), and you have a certain win situation for Apple.

[sparksinspace]

I suspect that this makes the rumors sound more credible..

1) Apple UK have been sending out invitations to selected people in the UK to join them for a live webcast of Steve Job's address at BBC television centre in White City. If I remember rightly, last time this happened was when the move to Intel was announced, people would be very disappointed if there wasn't a major announcement.... :)

2) In the run up to X-Mas Apple UK have been selling off a lot of refurbished G4 notebooks, both iBooks and PowerBooks.. normally their refurbished online store only opens for a day a week but now its open 24/7 with loads of those laptops for sale.

Ah, this will be a Happy New Year! :D

[iGary]

The iBook will probably be Rob's B-Day present assuming he can dual boot Windows and OS X - he needs Windows for mortgage software.

Yes, iGary just talked about buying an Intel product without throwing up in his mouth a little bit™.

[aegisdesign]

970mp isnt going in iMac be assured, Yonah will. Single Cores for the Consumer, Duals,Quads for the pro's. This is going to be a great year and i wouldnt put it past Apple to have all machines Intel by the end of 2006.

If they put a single core Yonah in the iMac it'll be slower than the current G5 iMac. Not going to happen.

Second half of 2006 you've got Conroe anyway.

[JoeG4]

Apple does the video stream stuff every year.

As far as PB whining goes, I have my PB -- a 1.5ghz G4 model I got back in May, and FWIW I couldn't care if a dual G5 came out, my PB won't get any worse :)

I don't think the G4 owners will be whining ('cept those with the bad screens), it'll be the ones who couldn't afford a PowerBook and only able to get an iBook but demanded that Apple somehow make their computers cheaper so they could afford them that did and will keep whining when they see that Apple still won't drop their prices (drastically, anyway).

I could keep preaching to the choir there, but no matter what Apple does, their machines will still be considered relatively expensive, even if they use the same components other companies do because they're not the same machines at all. Apple's are all fancy what with their backlit keyboards, slot loading drives, that impeccable build quality, etc.. Even the box is expensive compared to the junk most PC manufacturers use.

Unless Apple drops what makes their computers Apple computers, they'll still be too expensive :D This part I'm looking forward to, because as usual it'll be something drool-worthy no matter what.

****, Steve-O could make a Celeron look good, I'm sure. Not that I'd want to see that, and I'd be really mad if they used ANY type of "integrated graphics chipset" (aka the Intel ones, or worse yet -- an SiS one!), but I know they won't do that!

[JoeG4]

Apple does the video stream stuff every year.

As far as PB whining goes, I have my PB -- a 1.5ghz G4 model I got back in May, and FWIW I couldn't care if a dual G5 came out, my PB won't get any worse :)

I don't think the G4 owners will be whining ('cept those with the bad screens), it'll be the ones who couldn't afford a PowerBook and only able to get an iBook but demanded that Apple somehow make their computers cheaper so they could afford them that did and will keep whining when they see that Apple still won't drop their prices (drastically, anyway).

I could keep preaching to the choir there, but no matter what Apple does, their machines will still be considered relatively expensive, even if they use the same components other companies do because they're not the same machines at all. Apple's are all fancy what with their backlit keyboards, slot loading drives, that impeccable build quality, etc.. Even the box is expensive compared to the junk most PC manufacturers use.

Unless Apple drops what makes their computers Apple computers, they'll still be too expensive :D This part I'm looking forward to, because as usual it'll be something drool-worthy no matter what.

****, Steve-O could make a Celeron look good, I'm sure. Not that I'd want to see that, and I'd be really mad if they used ANY type of "integrated graphics chipset" (aka the Intel ones, or worse yet -- an SiS one!), but I know they won't do that!

[supersalzme]

When it comes down to it, if the ibooks come out, and they are fast, and have the features I need, I will buy one. Why not? I will save 500 bucks, and can use that 500 to max out the ibook. Come to think of it....if the powerbooks ARE released at the same time...they would have to have something pretty amazing that the ibooks don't have for me to fork out the extra cash.

[aegisdesign]

You guys are too hopeful, I think. Apple has made an effort to be more price competitive with the other PC providers. It's the one of the big reasons they moved to Intel. You guys keep thinking for the fancy - Yonah, this, dual-core that. Let me tell you, we'll see the iBook will debut with a Celeron M processor at a ~$700 price range. That's what Apple needs to do to win market share, and I don't see why they'd even bother with anything better for their iBooks.

I think you're probably right. The next Celeron M gets launched that week too alongside Yonah. It's probably not a bad chip either and still faster than the iBook's current G4.

Or they could just announce an iPod Shuffle replacement and iLife06 and thats all. I can imagine the uproar now. ;-)

[hob]

Apple UK have been sending out invitations to selected people in the UK to join them for a live webcast of Steve Job's address at BBC television centre in White City. If I remember rightly, last time this happened was when the move to Intel was announced, people would be very disappointed if there wasn't a major announcement.... :)


Where can I go to watch this webcast? I am just a concerned citizen :p but there must be SOMEWHERE in London open to the public with a big screen... hmmmm, THE APPLE STORE maybe? I mean I've heard they do it but not so much these days... If the regent street store did that I'd be there at 8am...

The distinction between powerbooks and ibooks used to be G3/G4. Now that they'll all have completely new processors, why bother distinguishing them. We could see an entirely new line of laptop which will run from the low end to the high end. These new iBooks could replace both the current i and Powerbooks which would all be discontinued. Then in 6 months when the new processors arrive they just add faster models to the lineup and shunt the slowest one off the shelf.

I thought this too for about 2 minutes. I came to the conclusion that they have two lines for a very good reason. Apple may introduce the iBook first, and the powerbook later but they will keep the powerbook. This is because there really are two types of user out there. I have two good friends at Uni who use Apple laptops.
Tom uses a 12" iBook mainly to create and listen to music. And it does it very well. He takes it all over the place, it's rough, tough and chock full of cool music, videos etc.
Henry uses his 15" PowerBook only on his desk. It's plugged in pretty much 24/7. He does video editing, and occasionally listens to music. He doesn't take it anywhere. He needs the extra processing power, and has the money to pay for it.

iBooks are rock solid, powerbooks are soft like butter. iBooks are great for schoolkids, active types and clumsy people (like me), Powerbooks are great for those who have a bit more money to spend, and actually need the power.

Personally, I think it's because I now have every apple product I will need/afford in the next few years, I'm not too fussed about these rumors. Seems to me, we will see Shuffles, iBooks and Mac Minis in January. But didn't we know this like a month ago?

[Dont Hurt Me]

If they put a single core Yonah in the iMac it'll be slower than the current G5 iMac. Not going to happen.

Second half of 2006 you've got Conroe anyway.
Where do you dream that crap up? Yonah was about matching Athlons 64 with less power. Single AMD Athlon 64s match up very well to dual G5s and slaughter them in gaming. G5 at the same clock will be HAMMERED by a Yonah. Prepare yourself for this.:D

[aegisdesign]

Henry uses his 15" PowerBook only on his desk. It's plugged in pretty much 24/7. He does video editing, and occasionally listens to music. He doesn't take it anywhere. He needs the extra processing power, and has the money to pay for it.


Then he bought the wrong machine.

An iMac G5 is faster, has a bigger faster drive, has a better larger screen and is significantly cheaper than a laptop. With his saving he could have bought an iBook as a second machine.


Buying a laptop and then never using it's portability is a false economy.

[EricNau]

Now, you and I might scoff at the Celeron M, but do you think most of the buyers of the new iBook - Dad, Mom and Grandparents with the lower price - would even understand. Add that to the fact that Apple will probably not participate with the Intel advertising stipend (putting Celeron M stickers on their machines), and you have a certain win situation for Apple.
But you can't downgrade the iBook either. The least Apple can do would be to put a G4 equivalent in the iBooks, and then make the Powerbooks even better.

[hechacker1]

Somebody else alluded to this theory, but i'll state it better:

What if Apple simply phases out "powerbook" and "ibook" and instead comes up with a SINGLE new line of laptops? That would solve the ibook before powerbook problem that so many forum users are complaining about.

With apple hiring Sony engineers, and with the recent talk about debuting a new line of laptops that are not only faster, but smaller and stylish, It really sounds like apple may just come out with an entire new line of laptops that caters to the whole range of users. At the low end you could get a 12" and pick and chose your performance by the means of low voltage or high performance simply by choosing a different processor. Then you have a choice of widescreen and what not.

And if you wan't "high end" you can just go for the 17" widescreen and choose a ultra fast (though not power miser) processor. It allows for more options, yet without having two separate lines..

just my and some other people's theory's. It seems to make sense.

[sw1tcher]

Maybe the PowerBook will be announced at MWSF "06 however shipped a few months later. :)

If there is going to be a 2GB Shuffle, I am gonna get one if it has a screen. ;) :D

2GB Shuffle with a screen = 2GB Nano.

[dernhelm]

You are right, the iMac G5 is NOT a slow computer whatsoever. But once the intels come out, all of the new software coming out will be Intel - not PowerPC (for the most part). It's a hard decision to make.

It may be a hard decision to make, but not because anyone would be producing "intel only" binaries any time soon. It is simply too easy to produce "universal" binaries that run on both PPC and Intel, I doubt any major software would be produced that wouldn't run on both.

[nodmonkey]

Weren't Powerbooks supposed to be using the more advanced Intel Merom processors and not Yonah. I was of the understanding that Yonah was for iBooks and Merom would be for Powerbooks.

Or have I got my processors facts muddled?

[cr2sh]

I believe these rumors. I expect to see intel i-series first.

iBooks, in thinner, newly designed cases.. that are lite as hell.

Apple has really fallen behind with these things, the core of the current design has been used since May, 2001!

I mean EVERY other line-up has been COMPLETELY CHANGED TWICE, since this design came out... yet the iBook remains mostly the same.

Come on, let's see something as thin as two lcd screens, strong and lite as hell. With a 13" 1280x1024 screen!

[Sean7512]

I think many people may be upset in January. Didn't Jobs say that intel computers would be SHIPPING by june of '06? I wouldn't bet everything I had on them coming some 6 months early. I think that Jobs will show us pictures of the new intel ibooks, powerbooks, etc. Then he will talk about their performace, then announce that they will be shipping in maybe 1-2 months. That way, he could release ibooks, powerbooks, and minis at the same time. Im not sure if apple would risk the ibook and the mini to outperform the current powerbooks. Unless apple uses a Celeron M for the ibook and mini , which could bring comparable performance to the current g4's and would certainly not outperform the powerbooks.

I hope that I'm wrong, because I'd love to see the new intel Macs in Jan, but I'd rather be pessimistic and get suprised rather than being optimistic and being let down.

[Object-X]

My worthless opinion about all this laptop nonsense is this:

The reason there is all this confusion about Apple's upcoming low-end portable lineup is that the rumor sites are trying to make everything fit into the current product matrix, but I think Apple is going to change it.

Like, for example, Appleinsider was reporting that the 12" PowerBook will disappear. I have a hard time believing this, because that machine sold well (I see them everywhere).

So, what seems more likely is that the iBook line will stop being crippled (i.e., will be able to push a second external display), so that it negates the need for a pro version of their small laptop, or Apple is going to announce a third line of laptops entirely. In other words, the high end remains similar (15" and 17" screens), at the low-end we have some stripped down iBook for budget consumers, and in the middle, we have some kind of new entrant...kind of busting the 12" out as its own category: a true Apple subnotebook.

The specifics of what I'm saying are irrelevant, but my general point is: I believe we're going to see some truly new Apple products...not just the same laptops with different guts.

Actually, your worthless opinion makes sense. Apple could introduce a new product line that could offset declining Powerbook sales. Maybe these super slim portables they are talking about.

I think Apple will expand their product offerings with Intel. I have always thought two lines (iBook & Powerbook), though simple, is too limited. Apple could expand thier product matrix without introducing complexity; that was the reason they gave to reduce it in the first place. I think your on to something suzerain.

[aegisdesign]

Where do you dream that crap up? Yonah was about matching Athlons 64 with less power. Single AMD Athlon 64s match up very well to dual G5s and slaughter them in gaming. G5 at the same clock will be HAMMERED by a Yonah. Prepare yourself for this.:D

Benchmarks other than games. I don't play games. And the fact I've got both a G5 and a Dothan of similar speeds and the G5 toasts it running the same media centric software.

Where are you getting the single Athlon64 toasting the Dual G5 though?

http://www.barefeats.com/macvpc.html is getting old now but the opteron 252 back then was a beast. I've two opteron duals (244s) too but they run Linux so I can't do a compare with the software I use on a Mac.

[Thomas Harte]

I think many people may be upset in January. Didn't Jobs say that intel computers would be SHIPPING by june of '06? I wouldn't bet everything I had on them coming some 6 months early.
Yes, but didn't he also tell us that while using an Intel based Mac? This isn't like the PowerPC transition, which was a transition to an entirely new architecture otherwise unused anywhere in the world and was unforseen earlier - OS X has reputedly been compiled and tested on Intel chips since the very beginning, Rhapsody DR2 was even available to the wider development community way back when, the people inside Apple and the developers with cash already have functioning machines and the entire architecture is pretty much an industry standard anyway.

That said, I do generally agree that realistically I'm expecting full product details rather than immediate release.

On the topic of Yonah vs Celeron M, I may have misunderstood this because I don't follow these things religiously but isn't Yonah the official replacement for the Celeron M according to Intel? I had the feeling that they were planning a swift transition for the whole Centrino thing from Celeron M to Yonah, so presumably every budget laptop maker in the world will move forward during 2006. I doubt that, with such a focus change planned, the Intel people would really want a big individual buyer like Apple hanging on their Celeron M line.

[budugu]

But you can't downgrade the iBook either. The least Apple can do would be to put a G4 equivalent in the iBooks, and then make the Powerbooks even better.


Well Celeron (yonah) version is also not bad (1.5 GHz 533/677 FSB with 1MB cache) performance wise to (1.33 133FSB G4 with 512KB). The only problem if i can remember right is that there are some power saving feature cut from Celeron M (the current version). So using a celeron might give the 6hr battery time a huge hit. That said intel could as well include the power saving features as they are also not that hard pressed to differentiate Pentium M/ celeron M as the number of cores is just enough for people to pop their eyes (imagine being a non techie (heck even techy) offered a notebook with 1 proc vs 2 proc (at a small premium) at you best buy/ cicuit city what ever!) .

[aegisdesign]

Weren't Powerbooks supposed to be using the more advanced Intel Merom processors and not Yonah. I was of the understanding that Yonah was for iBooks and Merom would be for Powerbooks.

Or have I got my processors facts muddled?


Facts? This is MacRumors.com.

Everything is speculation. Apple haven't said they'll be using any processor.

[M-theory]

Naaa I broke years ago... :eek: ;)

^------**on fire today**:D

[alep85]

I can think of only three rationales for putting Intel processors in the iBook (consumer line) before the Powerbook (professional line):

1. The new iBook will have less features than the Powerbook. Professionals will still buy the Powerbook because they need the features it provides (better screen, better connectivity, whatever...).

2. The new iBook will be slower than the Powerbook, at least for certain applications. This could happen if the iBook gets a processor other than Yonah or if Rosetta emulation is worse than we expect. Alternatively, the Powerbook gets a better G4 at the same time (dual-core, better FSB), narrowing the gap.

3. The iBook is the new Powerbook.

Discuss...

I think you all are forgetting the true reason the Powerbook will not yet go Intel.

Have you all forgotten what the true target group the Powerbook was designed for???? Professionals! And professionals want to be able to run their apps fast for whatever reason they need them for (publishing, audio, video, photography, all processor intense things, you think Rosetta, an EMULATOR, is going to be THAT powerful?)

Do you SEE Adobe Creative Studio 2 ready for x86 OS X? How about Pro Tools 7? Logic? Just to name a few!

Point being, developers aren't quite 100 percent ready for the switch. That's why the iBook and/or Mini's are going to come first, the OS, iLife Apps, and many consumer applications will be ported and be fast as hell, and the rest of what consumers need can be run through Rosetta at a slightly slower speed than the G4. It's all most consumers need, and bumping the consumer line will get x86 app development moving even faster. I applaud Apple for this move, it means when the Powerbook and then eventually the PowerMac comes out as Intel, there should be a much larger app base for pros to work with and make the switch to.

C'mon now, guys. THINK! Do you honestly believe that Apple is going to release an Intel PB when the pros that they are designed for have no pro-level apps to run natively?

[aegisdesign]

It may be a hard decision to make, but not because anyone would be producing "intel only" binaries any time soon. It is simply too easy to produce "universal" binaries that run on both PPC and Intel, I doubt any major software would be produced that wouldn't run on both.

Exactly. A software company would have to be mad to try to sell an Intel only application. There are no intel macs currently and an estimated 25 million PowerPC macs in use if I recall Jobs' keynote on OSX users. Add in the number of people who didn't buy a copy of OSX and those that use the same copy on multiple Macs.

Even if Apple doubles their sales of Macs this year, PowerPC Mac users will dwarf Intel Mac users for many years.

[pixelfreak]

Weren't Powerbooks supposed to be using the more advanced Intel Merom processors and not Yonah. I was of the understanding that Yonah was for iBooks and Merom would be for Powerbooks.

Or have I got my processors facts muddled?

Dual Core Yonah processors are comparable to AMDs entry level desktop processors. This would be a significant boost from G4 processors in both the iBook and Powerbook.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2648

However, I'm with nodmonkey. My guess is that Apple won't release an Intel powerbook until dual-core, shared-cache mobile Merom CPUs are shipping mid to late 2006.

Tom's Hardware : Intel Processor Overview and Release Dates (http://www.tomshardware.com/2005/12/04/top_secret_intel_processor_plans_uncovered/page5.html)

Even if Apple shipped a Powerbook in January, I doubt there would be much demand since many of the pro apps (Photoshop, Dreamweaver, etc.) are not native yet. Unless Apple can emulate these apps running at G4 speed or greater, I won't be buying a Intel Powerbook anytime soon.

[ogun7]

I can think of only three rationales for putting Intel processors in the iBook (consumer line) before the Powerbook (professional line):

Discuss...

I think a lot of people here just don't get it. Professional users from cats at ILM to my photog friends at the New York Times do not jump everytime Apple releases new hardware.

Why?

Because, for pros, it's all about the apps, stupid!

And I quote:
Q. Will Adobe release a version of Adobe Creative Suite 2 for Macintosh computers that use Intel processors?

A. Adobe currently has no plans to update Adobe Creative Suite 2 or any other currently available Adobe products to support Macintosh computers that use Intel processors. Instead, we plan on investing in preparing future versions of our Macintosh products for this new line of computers.

Q. What does this mean for me as an Adobe plug-in developer or system integrator?

A. For developers who are creating plug-ins or solutions for Adobe Creative Suite 2 or any other current Adobe products, such as Photoshop CS2 or InDesign CS2, nothing changes: You can continue to use Metrowerks Codewarrior to build and compile your plug-ins. However, once Adobe migrates future development to Apple Xcode, developers of Adobe compatible plug-ins and solutions will also need to transition to Xcode to continue developing and compiling their programs. Our initial investigation of our own transition suggests that this will take preparation, so we wanted to alert our developer community now to this upcoming change to give you time to plan and prepare.
from blogs.adobe.com
http://blogs.adobe.com/notesfrommnr/2005/09/adobe_plug-ins.html

Apple HAS to release their consumer machines first in order to allow the tier 1 developers to catch up with software development. The consumers of most consumer machines will use mostly Apple provided software, most of which will be OS X86 Intel native.

Until Photoshop, Dreamweaver, MS Office, Quark and even FinalCut and the like are released as Universal Binaries there's no market impetus behind purchases of pro Apple hardware. (remember the OS 9 to X 10.1 migration)

I remember 200 G3's and G4's sitting in Hachette Fillipachi's NY offices on Broadway here in Manhattan running OS9 when X was at 10.2 because of Quark.

Anyway, that's a long-winded way to say there won't be any Intel Powerbooks in 3 weeks.

Now where are the OS X on AMD hackers at?

[steve_hill4]

No... no they don't realize, hence this thread may turn into a typical PB WhinerFest™.
Sorry to add to the whining, but I'm still banking on the intel PowerBooks beating the iBooks out of the gates, or at least pretty much the same time. What would be the point of having consumer notebooks outperforming the Pro line in many areas, (not all, remember the other specs are bound to be lower still).

I'm not too worried about MWSF, if they aren't announced then, rumours here should be pointing to when we will get them, (if indeed they are announced in the space of a few weeks after MWSF).

[aegisdesign]

On the topic of Yonah vs Celeron M, I may have misunderstood this because I don't follow these things religiously but isn't Yonah the official replacement for the Celeron M according to Intel?


No.

Intel are due to release a new Celeron M processor at the same time as the new Pentium M (Yonah).

It's based on the existing 90nm Dothan running up to 1.7Ghz with a 1MB cache. It looks identical to me spec wise as the current 1.7Ghz Pentium M. The Yonah based version of the Celeron M isn't due till 2nd half of 06 and by the sounds of it, since Merom is due then to replace the Yonah, I'd guess the Yonah based Celeron M is simply the Yonah Pentium M downgraded to Celeron naming. Maybe they'll drop the 2MB cache to 1MB but then there's not that much difference between the 90nm and 65nm parts.

[shyataroo]

What ever happend to the harvard arcatechture of a G4=2x as fast as a pentium of the same speed?

[elgruga]

I guess my interest in all this is very low.
I cannot see why Apple is bothering to change to Intel at all - the speed increases wont be very much and PowerPC is still moving along.

I have a 3.5 year old Powerbook G4 667 dvi, 10.4.3. When I test drove a new 17", it wasnt any better. Faster? Well, a bit, but as everything works well on what I have, why bother?

For a lot of Mac users, the new machines are irrrelevant until they HAVE to upgrade due to failure of the machine in some way.

And I thought everyone knew that a dual-core processor is NOT twice as fast.
Try putting two engines in a car - it wont be twice as fast.
Gain on these things is usually in the region of 10 - 25%.

There is a limit on speed for all things - and that limit is human speed. A 5 ghz machine would be fast, but I doubt that you will type that fast.
Store a million songs, but you can still only listen at the normal rate, one song at a time, through your ears.

The quality and use of software is much more important than speed, but this fact is lost on new users, marketing people, etc.
Its like the car that goes 200mph, but there is nowhere to run it.

I suppose that what this is about is Jobs/Apple wanting to get big market share. That will lead to lower quality and rushing buggy software to market.
Oh, wait. They are doing that already......

Why not spend some of the cash they have on a superb word processor and a superb Browser and an excellent eMail program? Thats all most of us need, and the rest is just desire - iPhoto, iTunes, etc. etc.

It isnt always good to give in to desire - it can turn you into a donkey.

[MacinDoc]

What ever happend to the harvard arcatechture of a G4=2x as fast as a pentium of the same speed?
That would be P4, not Pentium M, which by all accounts is at least equal to G4 per clock cycle.

[Morky]

Ive only been a Mac user for a few short months, but im getting tired of these 'rumours' sites already. How long are they going to come out with this 'our sources...' bull? So far, weve been told by'our sources' that Macworld will display new Powerbooks, no Powerbooks, Mac Minis, iBooks, iWork, iPhoto with Aperture features, Cinema Displays, possibly a new entertainment hub, Front Row 2.0, thinner laptops (hilarious), Yonahs, dual core Yonahs, no dual core Yonahs til Summer, no Firewire, Firewire 800, increased Nano flash storage, new Shuffles etc

Is there anything these sites and 'our sources' have NOT suggested that will appear at Macworld? Its like, whatever IS announced they will be sure to post their obligatory 'as reported by us 6 months ago'. Common sense dictates that anything other than iMacs and Powermacs can appear at Macworld, so why do people still take these rumour sites so seriously?

Lets just sit quietly and look forward to what will be a landmark event.

It turns out that Think Secret is a very reliable source, especially close to an Apple event. They are about the only consistently correct source you'll find, so any prediction ol' Nick de Plume makes should be taken seriously.

[1984]

"Yonah's launch could mean that dual-core Yonah iBooks, at speeds of 1.5GHz, might be announced in January, while faster PowerBooks, packing the performance version of the processor, might arrive later in the quarter, although that remains pure speculation at this point."

Way to go out on a limb there ThinkSecret! :rolleyes:

[Piarco]

I'm not even going to go to the PB place. Because I'm yet another whiney PB owner wanting a dual-core Yonah yesterday.;)

But I am excited by the new Mac Mini. I've been after something to act as a home media station and if this goes the way of the may rumours, it'll be my next Mac purchase...

Although I'd rather it be a new PB!!! Dang it, I couldn't keep that in...:D

[aristobrat]

2GB Shuffle with a screen = 2GB Nano.
A shuffle with a small (26x11mm?) screen = a shuffle that actually has a chance to compete with its competition.

Google "DELL DJ DITTY" to see what the shuffle is up against.

[MacinDoc]

I guess my interest in all this is very low.
I cannot see why Apple is bothering to change to Intel at all - the speed increases wont be very much and PowerPC is still moving along.

Although other chip makers are showing some interest in developing the PPC 970MP, IBM has made it clear that it does not plan to further develop this technology for PCs, at least not without a lot of financial input from a potential client. So, to keep this technology current, Apple would have to put a lot of money into a company that has not demonstrated that it can bring its desktop products out in a predictable timeline and in sufficient quantity. Some people have suggested that Apple should have contracted to buy 970MPs from a start-up chip maker that's picked up this chip for future production, but this may only worsen the supply and quality control issues.

Furthermore, Steve Jobs has said that the primary reason for the shift was that Intel had a good roadmap for low-power processors, which would be ideal for laptops, iMacs, Mac Minis and Power Macs (in quad-core configuration). No current PPC970 offerings are suitable for the Mini or the laptop lines, which is why they still use G4 processors.

[Zigster]

Whew. Good thing I just dumped my imac on ebay.:D

I'll take a dual-boot 12" ibook, please!

[BlizzardBomb]

It turns out that Think Secret is a very reliable source, especially close to an Apple event. They are about the only consistently correct source you'll find, so any prediction ol' Nick de Plume makes should be taken seriously.

Well they did mess up when it came to the Video iPod, and I doubt that a dual-core in a consumer line would happen so close to when the chip is released.

[infecti0n]

Regarding the new Intel Macs due out next year, will users be able to install Windows on a separate partition? If so, will there be any Windows performance issues running on the Apple hardware?

[Hydra]

That would be P4, not Pentium M, which by all accounts is at least equal to G4 per clock cycle.
Pentium M is by far faster than ancient G4 clock per clock.

[1984]

It turns out that Think Secret is a very reliable source, especially close to an Apple event. They are about the only consistently correct source you'll find, so any prediction ol' Nick de Plume makes should be taken seriously.

The only thing consistent about ThinkSecret is how often they change their story. By the time something is actually announced they have done a 180 on their original prediction. They used to be a reliable source once upon a time but Appleinsider has since surpassed them. The tables have turned.

[aristobrat]

Have there always been this many whiny PB owners, or is this as result of the increasing number of "switchers"? :rolleyes: :D

As pointed out before, what's the point of releasing Intel PBs before Intel iBooks when some of the biggest software that PB professionals use can't run natively on Intel yet?

[slb]

Really? Guess you must have missed the huge update to the iMac product line a couple short months ago... :p ;)


I meant in terms of Intel rumors for January. :) Last rumor I heard, Intel iMacs were coming, and the new iMac shell was designed to allow an Intel motherboard to be dropped right in. But since then, rumors have shifted to a Mac mini DVR and updated iBooks, so I guess Intel iMacs will not be coming at MacWorld.

I'm wanting one so I can replace my dual Mac mini and PC setup as soon as possible. I want to try installing Windows and dual-booting (as I'm sure many others do). If the iMac shell rumor is true, maybe Apple will silently replace the iMac G5 on their online store with an Intel-based one without making a big deal of it, since it would look just the same. All speculation, of course. Can't wait until MacWorld.

[Stella]

I for one, I'm looking forward to the Intel Inside sticker in a prominent position on my Apple...

:-D

( and which will also run windows ( serious now ) ).

[SiliconAddict]

Where do you dream that crap up? Yonah was about matching Athlons 64 with less power. Single AMD Athlon 64s match up very well to dual G5s and slaughter them in gaming. G5 at the same clock will be HAMMERED by a Yonah. Prepare yourself for this.:D


Not for content creation benchmarks. Yonah got game. Its just not got it in FP intensive apps.

[pbrennen]

I guess my interest in all this is very low.
I cannot see why Apple is bothering to change to Intel at all - the speed increases wont be very much and PowerPC is still moving along.

I have a 3.5 year old Powerbook G4 667 dvi, 10.4.3. When I test drove a new 17", it wasnt any better. Faster? Well, a bit, but as everything works well on what I have, why bother?

For a lot of Mac users, the new machines are irrrelevant until they HAVE to upgrade due to failure of the machine in some way.

And I thought everyone knew that a dual-core processor is NOT twice as fast.
Try putting two engines in a car - it wont be twice as fast.
Gain on these things is usually in the region of 10 - 25%.

There is a limit on speed for all things - and that limit is human speed. A 5 ghz machine would be fast, but I doubt that you will type that fast.
Store a million songs, but you can still only listen at the normal rate, one song at a time, through your ears.

The quality and use of software is much more important than speed, but this fact is lost on new users, marketing people, etc.
Its like the car that goes 200mph, but there is nowhere to run it.

I suppose that what this is about is Jobs/Apple wanting to get big market share. That will lead to lower quality and rushing buggy software to market.
Oh, wait. They are doing that already......

Why not spend some of the cash they have on a superb word processor and a superb Browser and an excellent eMail program? Thats all most of us need, and the rest is just desire - iPhoto, iTunes, etc. etc.

It isnt always good to give in to desire - it can turn you into a donkey.

I'm all for more speed, all the time. Apps don't open fast enough, archives don't compress and extract fast enough, mp3s don't encode fast enough, giant picture files don't open fast enough, etc. more performance is good. the (my) user experience is often affected by these sorts of lags, even though the actual interface taking place (typing, listening to mp3s) has almost no latency.

there are lots of bottlenecks, most concerning of which are hard drives and optical drives. I guess solid state is the future here. I'd say a 4x increase in CPU clock makes for noticable improvement. 200 mhz laptop -> 800 mhz desktop feels different. 800 mhz desktop from 4 years ago -> 3.2 ghz desktop feels different.

i'll maybe be satisfied when i can walk into a room, say "on" and have the computer instantly on, and have every app open instantly (not one second later) when i say its name. yea, voice recognition takes a little bit of cpu too.

so, you're right, most people today will scratch their heads and wonder why safari is taking so long to open up and think that this is as good as it gets, but hopefully progress will continue at a breakneck pace. so forth marketing dorks, and continue to market faster as better, because it will always benefit me.

[ziwi]

So a dual core mini before the iMac...interesting. I think the 1GB shuffles are probably out of stock to force people to the 2GB Nano and boost those sales...tricky stuff - never undrestimate the power of profit ;)

[aegisdesign]

Pentium M is by far faster than ancient G4 clock per clock.

Only at integer operations and anything that has to go off chip to retrieve data across the slow FSB on the G4. Plus the 1MB cache in a Pentium M helps over the 512KB cache in the 7447A although not as much as you think as the Pentium M needs a larger cache to get it's speed.

G4 toasts it at FP and vector code, clock for clock.

The point is, there's 2.16Ghz Pentium Ms already and only 1.67Ghz G4s and Yonah adds another core and increases the cache to 2MB so clock for clock comparisons are a bit silly.

[aegisdesign]

Not for content creation benchmarks. Yonah got game. Its just not got it in FP intensive apps.

And that's got very little to do with the CPU anyway. It's Apple's slow OpenGL implementation and poor ports that make it lose on the games front.

Unless Apple's OpenGL implementation improves on MacIntel then we'll still get beat in game benchmarks.

[aegisdesign]

So a dual core mini before the iMac...interesting. I think the 1GB shuffles are probably out of stock to force people to the 2GB Nano and boost those sales...tricky stuff - never undrestimate the power of profit ;)

Right, they're going to stick a $400 CPU into the $499 Mac Mini.

Someone said *I* was dreaming.

[Frobozz]

C'mon now, guys. THINK! Do you honestly believe that Apple is going to release an Intel PB when the pros that they are designed for have no pro-level apps to run natively?

Yes.

A dual Core Yonah at 2.16 GHz, for example, will monkey stomp a single G4 at 1.67. Rosetta will provide 80% of the native speed. Let's run some speculative, but fairly realistic numbers.

Assume the following performance: 1.67 G4 / 167 MHz Bus is roughly half the speed of a dual core 2.16 Yonah / 667 Bus. This is a ballpark figure but Yonah could actually be much faster.

200% raw power x 80% rosetta speed for PPC apps will yield roughly 160%, or 1.6x the speed of an existing PowerBook. In other words, the speed boost to unconverted apps is still 60%.

Even if you change these numbers to be significantly less impressive for Yonah, you still end up with speed boosts for unaltered PPC code over a normal PPC model revision. Normal revision cycles, for Apple, have traditionally yielded somewhere from 12% to 25% speed increases.

[Randall]

Weren't Powerbooks supposed to be using the more advanced Intel Merom processors and not Yonah. I was of the understanding that Yonah was for iBooks and Merom would be for Powerbooks.

Or have I got my processors facts muddled?Well you're on to something there, but the fact is that Merom is actually the successor to Yonah. So therefore, it would make sense that the Powerbooks get Yonah and then Merom. According to Intel, Merom's design places emphasis on both high performance and low power consumption. On a performance per watt basis, Intel claims Merom will outperform Yonah by a 2-1 margin. Ultra low voltage Merom chips will consume as little as 0.5W of power, enabling ultra portable laptops to have battery lives in the tens of hours.

However, both Yonah and Merom will be from the same line of processors (Pentium M). If you want to give the iBook Yonah, you have to wait a whole year to get Merom into the Powerbooks, and that is unacceptable.

[Stella]

I guess my interest in all this is very low.
I cannot see why Apple is bothering to change to Intel at all - the speed increases wont be very much and PowerPC is still moving along.

I have a 3.5 year old Powerbook G4 667 dvi, 10.4.3. When I test drove a new 17", it wasnt any better. Faster? Well, a bit, but as everything works well on what I have, why bother?

<snip>


Apple can't compete with laptops, for one.

G5s still run too hot. The new Intel processors will run faster than the current G4s, for sure. The G5 are fine for the moment... but that won't last too long.

As your evidence shows, G4s haven't come very far - when you compared your G4 667 with the new 17". 3.5 years later, and G4s are sooo laggging.

For some, speed is everything, especially for the average consumer. The faster, the better. The cheaper the better ( until the quality gets really noticeably crap ).

iBooks are looking very expensive, imo.

[Randall]

Yes.

A dual Core Yonah at 2.16 GHz, for example, will monkey stomp a single G4 at 1.67. Rosetta will provide 80% of the native speed. Let's run some speculative, but fairly realistic numbers.

Assume the following performance: 1.67 G4 / 167 MHz Bus is roughly half the speed of a dual core 2.16 Yonah / 667 Bus. This is a ballpark figure but Yonah could actually be much faster.

200% raw power x 80% rosetta speed for PPC apps will yield roughly 160%, or 1.6x the speed of an existing PowerBook. In other words, the speed boost to unconverted apps is still 60%.

Even if you change these numbers to be significantly less impressive for Yonah, you still end up with speed boosts for unaltered PPC code over a normal PPC model revision. Normal revision cycles, for Apple, have traditionally yielded somewhere from 12% to 25% speed increases.
Thank you. This is what I've been pointing out to everyone. The difference between the G4 and Yonah 2GHz is that they are GENERATIONS appart. Yonah uses the 65nm process, and has 2 cores. You can emulate PPC with Rosetta on Yonah better then you can BE a PPC with G4. Sad but true, that IBM and Apple let the G4 remain for so very very long.

[SiliconAddict]

Have there always been this many whiny PB owners, or is this as result of the increasing number of "switchers"? :rolleyes: :D

As pointed out before, what's the point of releasing Intel PBs before Intel iBooks when some of the biggest software that PB professionals use can't run natively on Intel yet?

The ratio of whiners to nonwhiners is proportionate to the number of years the PowerBook line has gone without any REAL updates. And when I say real I do not mean RAM boosts, a new LCD, dual layer burners, price drops, and spiffy new touchpads. So at one time no there weren’t this many “whiners” The only people who aren’t complaining at this point are people who:
-Are happy with their PowerBook so they don’t care about the “Next big thing”.
-Have no technical expertise in computers.
-Are Apple/PPC fanbois.

People who ARE complaining:
-Are geeks.
-Are power users who want something that can keep up with the tools they use. (Aperture on a PowerBook? http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/images/smiles/rotfl.gif
-Are people who need to run Windows “legacy apps” (Which is me. There are about a half dozen Windows apps that do not exist on OS X that I need to do my job and VPC on a G4 does NOT get the job done. What? You expect me to drag around two laptops?)

[evomac]

Hello everyone...this is my first post.

Amazon has the ibook with mail in rebates now. Didn't know if this may imply a change for it since I don't normally run across MIR on Apple products!

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0009U7WZM/ref=nosim/104-0094666-3506332?n=541966

If this has already been mentioned or has no meaning, then all apologies:o

[rye9]

According to Intel, Merom's design places emphasis on both high performance and low power consumption. On a performance per watt basis, Intel claims Merom will outperform Yonah by a 2-1 margin. Ultra low voltage Merom chips will consume as little as 0.5W of power, enabling ultra portable laptops to have battery lives in the tens of hours.

However, both Yonah and Merom will be from the same line of processors (Pentium M).

This is why I am not getting a Yonah iBook. Sure they are better than the current ones but hardly. Its not like the current ones process slowly, the Yonah ones will just have a better power to performance ratio, not a much better performance. Also, with this Merom coming soon, I can defintely wait and since Merom is supposed to be a whole new architecture or something is supposed to be different, it's like another transition of processors. Intel is supposed to be abandoning its Netburst technology or something making the current chips "obsolete" bc its a whole new processor with this Merom coming. (similar to the PPC being "obsolete" with the transition to Intel) So, with ANOTHER TRANSITION iminent and a processor about two times as better than the Yonah which everyone is saying is great, Merom is like 4 times better than the current chips. So it makes little sense to me to get a Yonah machine with Merom which is so much better just around the corner. So, IMO, i think it would be best to get a PPC Apple for a cheap price on Amazon.com or when there is a price drop after the Macintels are released to last you a little when and then and only then, get a Macintel with the whole new architecture. (either Merom or Conroe)

[sparksinspace]

... Didn't Jobs say that intel computers would be SHIPPING by june of '06? I wouldn't bet everything I had on them coming some 6 months early. I think that Jobs will show us pictures of the new intel ibooks, powerbooks, etc. Then he will talk about their performace, then announce that they will be shipping in maybe 1-2 months. That way, he could release ibooks, powerbooks, and minis at the same time. Im not sure if apple would risk the ibook and the mini to outperform the current powerbooks. ...

The last thing he'd do is to show all new shiny machines and then tell us that they won't be available for a few months... if he did what you suggest the shareholders would demand his head.. (or they should) because this would kill sales.

In the past Apple have always made product announcements with essentially immediate shipment.

[Randall]

This is why I am not getting a Yonah iBook. Sure they are better than the current ones but hardly. Its not like the current ones process slowly, the Yonah ones will just have a better power to performance ratio, not a much better performance. Also, with this Merom coming soon, I can defintely wait and since Merom is supposed to be a whole new architecture or something is supposed to be different, it's like another transition of processors. Intel is supposed to be abandoning its Netburst technology or something making the current chips "obsolete" bc its a whole new processor with this Merom coming. (similar to the PPC being "obsolete" with the transition to Intel) So, with ANOTHER TRANSITION iminent and a processor about two times as better than the Yonah which everyone is saying is great, Merom is like 4 times better than the current chips. So it makes little sense to me to get a Yonah machine with Merom which is so much better just around the corner. So, IMO, i think it would be best to get a PPC Apple for a cheap price on Amazon.com or when there is a price drop after the Macintels are released to last you a little when and then and only then, get a Macintel with the whole new architecture. (either Merom or Conroe)
Not a bad idea, assuming Intel stays the course and releases Merom in Q3/Q4 2006. Merom is actually supposed to be 64-bits as well. Merom will incorporate some aspects of the Pentium 4 and some aspects of the Pentium M. Intel has revealed that Merom will be a dual core processor supporting Vanderpool Virtualization Technology as well as EM64T, which is Intel's name for AMD64.

I am foaming at the mouth at the possibility of owning a 64-bit dual core Powerbook that has a battery life in the 10's of hours in January 2007. My God that would be the greatest laptop achievement in a long time. :)

[SiliconAddict]

the Yonah ones will just have a better power to performance ratio, not a much better performance.


Ummm http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/images/smiles/huh.gif Dude. You are going to be wrong. As Frobozz so eloquently put it. . . The Yonah is going to monkey stomp the G4.
But then again I don't expect Yonah in the iBooks to begin with anyways so you prob will be right. . . For now.

[shawnce]

But once the intels come out, all of the new software coming out will be Intel - not PowerPC (for the most part). It's a hard decision to make.

This is simple not going to be an issue... The Mac OS X software market is all PPC now, that is 15+ million systems that are PPC based against 0 that are Intel based. Software is not going to ship only for Intel anytime soon. Software will be universal for a long time (3-5+ years).

[generik]

I guess my interest in all this is very low.
I cannot see why Apple is bothering to change to Intel at all - the speed increases wont be very much and PowerPC is still moving along.

I have a 3.5 year old Powerbook G4 667 dvi, 10.4.3. When I test drove a new 17", it wasnt any better. Faster? Well, a bit, but as everything works well on what I have, why bother?

For a lot of Mac users, the new machines are irrrelevant until they HAVE to upgrade due to failure of the machine in some way.

And I thought everyone knew that a dual-core processor is NOT twice as fast.
Try putting two engines in a car - it wont be twice as fast.
Gain on these things is usually in the region of 10 - 25%.

There is a limit on speed for all things - and that limit is human speed. A 5 ghz machine would be fast, but I doubt that you will type that fast.
Store a million songs, but you can still only listen at the normal rate, one song at a time, through your ears.

The quality and use of software is much more important than speed, but this fact is lost on new users, marketing people, etc.
Its like the car that goes 200mph, but there is nowhere to run it.

I suppose that what this is about is Jobs/Apple wanting to get big market share. That will lead to lower quality and rushing buggy software to market.
Oh, wait. They are doing that already......

Why not spend some of the cash they have on a superb word processor and a superb Browser and an excellent eMail program? Thats all most of us need, and the rest is just desire - iPhoto, iTunes, etc. etc.

It isnt always good to give in to desire - it can turn you into a donkey.

"Nobody needs more than 640K of memory"

[sparksinspace]

Previous posters have suggested that Apple might replace both iBook and Powerbooks with a single notebook line. That would just be silly, c'mon.. iBook and PowerBook are established brands with distinctive and different customer bases.. why change a winning combination?

iBook - plastic, slow, (relatively) cheap components such as the screen, still using Apple's design, cool and desirable, price bracket suitable for education which is a very big market for Apple.

PowerBook - state of the art, no compromises in performance and design, for professionals who want the coolest notebook at any cost.

However, I can very well see the point of having the same motherboard for both machines.. that would allow Apple to improve profitability on both types of machines, for iBooks you just put slower processors in and for PowerBooks you spare no expense on all components.

I suspect the Intel based machine lineup will look like a logical evolution of the current machines, rather than revolutions. The main reason being that Apple can not afford to confuse its customer base any further...

[shawnce]

Thank you. This is what I've been pointing out to everyone. The difference between the G4 and Yonah 2GHz is that they are GENERATIONS appart. Yonah uses the 65nm process, and has 2 cores. You can emulate PPC with Rosetta on Yonah better then you can BE a PPC with G4. Sad but true, that IBM and Apple let the G4 remain for so very very long.

/me points out that the 80% number is well a little overly optimistic.

Really folks Rosetta is good but not that good, realistically expect around 20-50% of native depending on what is being emulated.

[steve_hill4]

A shuffle with a small (26x11mm?) screen = a shuffle that actually has a chance to compete with its competition.

Google "DELL DJ DITTY" to see what the shuffle is up against.
Not bad, but if you took the shuffle, put a small display, similar to that and every other flash based mp3 player's display, on the side, that would be better. It doesn't need to be big, you could even have a sliding cover, but a display would clinch those few more sales.

[rye9]

Not a bad idea, assuming Intel stays the course and releases Merom in Q3/Q4 2006. Merom is actually supposed to be 64-bits as well. Merom will incorporate some aspects of the Pentium 4 and some aspects of the Pentium M. Intel has revealed that Merom will be a dual core processor supporting Vanderpool Virtualization Technology as well as EM64T, which is Intel's name for AMD64.

I am foaming at the mouth at the possibility of owning a 64-bit dual core Powerbook that has a battery life in the 10's of hours in January 2007. My God that would be the greatest laptop achievement in a long time. :)

Yeah, that would be an awesome PB which is exactly my point why it would be kinda dumb to buy Intel now with a PB like that less than a year away.

[sparksinspace]

I guess my interest in all this is very low.
I cannot see why Apple is bothering to change to Intel at all - the speed increases wont be very much and PowerPC is still moving along.

I have a 3.5 year old Powerbook G4 667 dvi, 10.4.3. When I test drove a new 17", it wasnt any better. Faster? Well, a bit, but as everything works well on what I have, why bother?

....

You have a point, but ... for new sales the G4 is hopefully outdated, especially when you consider the slow memory bus... correct me if I'm wrong but I believe it's a marketing gag to equip these machines with DDR memory... so for Apple to survive (and despite iTunes hardware sales do drive their business) is to bring something competitive..

HOWEVER.. the good thing about having this slow G4 is that a lot of work must have gone into optimising MacOSX and apps, some of which will undoubtedly pay off also on an Intel platform, thus making the Intel experience that much more impressive when compared to, for example, Windows where if you have a state-of-the-art machine everything seems to take the same time as it did 10 years ago on a state-of-the-art (Windows95) machine...

So MacOSX on Intel will be like afterburners and warp-drive at the same time..

[~Shard~]

970mp isnt going in iMac be assured, Yonah will. Single Cores for the Consumer, Duals,Quads for the pro's. This is going to be a great year and i wouldnt put it past Apple to have all machines Intel by the end of 2006.


You may very well be right. However, I would argue that due to the current timelines for Conroe/Woodcrest, we will not see an Intel-based PowerMac until 2007.

I'll take a dual-boot 12" ibook, please!

Don't hold your breath... not for a while yet... ;) :cool:

I meant in terms of Intel rumors for January. :) Last rumor I heard, Intel iMacs were coming, and the new iMac shell was designed to allow an Intel motherboard to be dropped right in. But since then, rumors have shifted to a Mac mini DVR and updated iBooks, so I guess Intel iMacs will not be coming at MacWorld.

Nope, sorry to say it, but they won't be. The focus for now with respect to Intel machines will be the portable machines, probably the Mac mini as well, and then once all the existing G4 systems have been dealt with, we'll see about the G5 iMac. :cool:

[GregA]

Wow... all this hype is really getting to me! I need that Mac mini now! A dual-core 1.5 GHz mini would own my PowerBook at more than half the price! Not only that, but I'll be able to install both OS X and Windows on it. There are some Windows apps that I use that are not currently available for OS X, so it would be great not having to boot up my PC just for that one program. January cannot come soon enough! :DI don't know how you can compare a MacMini with a Powerbook - they both meet substantially different needs and have to be approached as such.

Also, I don't think we'll be able to dual boot Windows. Apple may use EFI without a "Compatibility Support Module" for older BIOSes - which would mean Windows XP won't work (Vista will support EFI). Of course, if Apple doesn't provide some way of loading Windows from OSX, then I'm sure VMware will release something very very quickly.

[MacinDoc]

The last thing he'd do is to show all new shiny machines and then tell us that they won't be available for a few months... if he did what you suggest the shareholders would demand his head.. (or they should) because this would kill sales.

In the past Apple have always made product announcements with essentially immediate shipment.
Are you forgetting the introduction of the Power Mac G5, maybe?

[~Shard~]

Are you forgetting the introduction of the Power Mac G5, maybe?

Exactly - announced in June, and some people didn't receive theirs until November - just in time for the revisions a month later. :cool:

[iEdd]

Guys, Powerbooks are just as likely if not more likely than iBooks. THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE SAYING. If iBook gets an update it will have to be better than the current powerbook, it's already ALMOST EQUAL! So then iBook would be more 'professional'. But what's the point, there are no intel apps you say? I expect macworld to have a few speakers including microsoft, adobe and some other companies saying that by the time you get your intel mac, they will have office and photoshop for you. Aswell as apple's own pro apps of course.
Do any professionals buy powerbooks? Maybe the maxed out 15" ones. Do you guys expect these software companies to bring out their new intel apps and announce them months before we see intel. Aren't apple taking the Dev kits back soon? For all we know, most software could be intel already.

[sparksinspace]

Are you forgetting the introduction of the Power Mac G5, maybe?

ok, there was that, yes.

[Super Dave]

Are you forgetting the introduction of the Power Mac G5, maybe?

Or any number of product announcments? Apple's behaved well in maybe the past... 1.5 years (pulling a number from my butt), but before that I remember tons of "Available in 2 months." In the mean time they don't leave the old products out as no one would buy them. In the mean time there's usually nothing.

David :cool:

[~Shard~]

Or any number of product announcments? Apple's behaved well in maybe the past... 1.5 years (pulling a number from my butt), but before that I remember tons of "Available in 2 months." In the mean time they don't leave the old products out as no one would buy them. In the mean time there's usually nothing.

David :cool:

Exactly - it has happened many times in the past and will undoubtedly happen many more times in the future.

So, Intel iBooks shipping in a month, Intel PowerBooks shipping in 3 months? ;)

[Randall]

Are you forgetting the introduction of the Power Mac G5, maybe?Yeah that was a marketing faux pas, or supply didn't meet demand, but either way, that didn't go very well. I think Steve Jobs will take a more conservative approach this time, not promising us 3GHz G5's etc.

Either way, the Intel machines will be very impressive compaired to the current G4 lineup. I think just by having Steve do a quick demo of such will create more then enough buzz for the new Mactel machines. (assuming they exist and will be ready to ship soon after MWSF '06) :p

[crees!]

I didn't pay for a top-end laptop only to have it be blown out by the lower end line. ************** And when the PB's get updated do you complain then that yours isn't as good? No, it's called computer evolution. Deal or don't own one.

[generik]

And when the PB's get updated do you complain then that yours isn't as good? No, it's called computer evolution. Deal or don't own one.

Guess what? Something like this will never happen on the PC front?

When was the last time your $3000 laptop gets obsoleted by a $1000 one in 3 months? Oh wait, that never happens.

[GregA]

What if Apple simply phases out "powerbook" and "ibook" and instead comes up with a SINGLE new line of laptops? That would solve the ibook before powerbook problem that so many forum users are complaining about.Or they'll release the "xPod", which is basically a Yonah iBook running OSX and with the look and feel of the new iPod (video)? Nah...

[Pyrix]

Sorry if this has already been covered before.

Personally I think Apple are trying to move away from the whole 'Power' is better that 'i' and more towards reinforcing the idea that they are for different audiences. a great example would be the introducing of front row to the imac, the consumer machine. This now gives Joe Public the reason to buy both - he may already have a powermac/powerbook, but now he wants an imac/ibook as well. Why? They're for different tasks, of course. Previously Lisa Public would have cried in outrage - 'You already have a powerbook, why do you need an ibook when the powerbook does it all! Think of the children! (Emily and Laurence Public).

Anyway, I have to go now.... :rolleyes:

That's where I think it's headed. The powerbook isn't better. It just 'thinks differently' to the ibook!

[danielwsmithee]

Hello everyone...this is my first post.

Amazon has the ibook with mail in rebates now. Didn't know if this may imply a change for it since I don't normally run across MIR on Apple products!

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0009U7WZM/ref=nosim/104-0094666-3506332?n=541966

If this has already been mentioned or has no meaning, then all apologies:o


This has been going on for quite some time. Every 3-4 weeks amazon has a huge apple mail in rebate deal.

[j_maddison]

You guys are too hopeful, I think. Apple has made an effort to be more price competitive with the other PC providers. It's the one of the big reasons they moved to Intel. You guys keep thinking for the fancy - Yonah, this, dual-core that. Let me tell you, we'll see the iBook will debut with a Celeron M processor at a ~$700 price range. That's what Apple needs to do to win market share, and I don't see why they'd even bother with anything better for their iBooks.

And you all here on this thread have proven the point as well - if they release an iBook with spectacular performance, they are killing their own sales of a higher-end line. Most of this thread, has in fact, proven the confusion that might result if Apple doesn't pair performance and pricing in a logical way for consumers. Segmentation is key, in order to attract customers at different price ranges. What better way than to cripple the iBook a bit, lower the price to engage the wider audience, and call it a day.

Now, you and I might scoff at the Celeron M, but do you think most of the buyers of the new iBook - Dad, Mom and Grandparents with the lower price - would even understand. Add that to the fact that Apple will probably not participate with the Intel advertising stipend (putting Celeron M stickers on their machines), and you have a certain win situation for Apple.

You're right, the average consumer won't understand the difference between a Celeron M and a Yonah chip, but journalists will. And your average consumer certainly understands bad press. And I'm sure marketing disaster would come to mind if this happened, possibly even commercial suicide. I can see it now, Apple releases cheap hardware at a premium price for the privilege of using its OSX operating system. Suddenly Mom, Dad, Grandma etc will think XP is the only way to go.

Jason

[Peace]

This has been going on for quite some time. Every 3-4 weeks amazon has a huge apple mail in rebate deal.

As does macmall.com (http://www.macmall.com)

[GregA]

So, Intel iBooks shipping in a month, Intel PowerBooks shipping in 3 months? ;)With the current rumour that the low end Yonahs are ready to roll, and the faster ones are a couple of months behind - I think that's highly possible.

I still think it makes more sense to focus on Powerbooks - but if the processor releases happen as above then that's the best choice right? And with Intel released to the public, developers will increase motivation.

ps. I agree that Rosetta emulation being 80% of native is highly optimistic, especially for graphics and altivec programs. For many people though, the question will be whether MS Office runs faster on Rosetta-Intel, or PPC... and I believe it will.

[j_maddison]

Tom uses a 12" iBook mainly to create and listen to music. And it does it very well. He takes it all over the place, it's rough, tough and chock full of cool music, videos etc.
Henry uses his 15" PowerBook only on his desk. It's plugged in pretty much 24/7. He does video editing, and occasionally listens to music. He doesn't take it anywhere. He needs the extra processing power, and has the money to pay for it.


Sounds like Henry should have bought an iMac if he never unplugs his Powerbook!

[Norse Son]

How much faster would a dual core intel at 1.5Ghz be than a 1.5Ghz G4? Would that speed increase overshadow the Current P-book line?

We are talking a dual-core Yonah on a 667MHz bus... That's 6-6-7MHz!!!... The PowerBook is what, 66MHz still... STILL... And that doesn't even take into account the memory architecture, the number and length of the pipelines (which I don't know - I don't wear a pocket protector at work)...

Then, remember that Yonah is just one small part of the package - a very efficient part at that. Yonah is part of Napa, which is Intel's codename for the CPU/Centrino/Memory-Controller(?)/etc. And it will feature DDR2 and PCI-Express x16 graphics...

So, yeah, the iBook would blow the doors off the PowerBook, because there is no logical way (or sane way, for that matter) to hobble Yonah/Napa to keep the iBook from shoving crow down the PowerBook's throat...

That's why I am getting tired of hearing these "reliable sources" spouting off about how Apple will put the brand-spankin' new, top-of-the-line Intel DUAL-CORE chip in their CONSUMER laptop months before they do anything to help erase the shame the PROFESSIONAL laptop must feel... Unless, and here it would not shock me one bit,... those same "reliable sources" (think Ouija Board) will shortly proclaim that Apple will wait on the PowerBook until Intel releases the ultra-low power, single-core Yonah at the low-ball "anti-speed" of 1.06GHz... They'll proclaim that they're privy to Apple's bold new marketing initiative that "speed is for wimps" and "why rush to get your work done, when you could stare at a progress bar all day until your shift ends"... Brilliant & bold is what Wall Street will call it - probably the same "experts" who are the "reliable sources" for Think Secret.

Nope, Apple would be downright stupid to put the dual-core Yonah in the iBook without addressing the PowerBook... And I still think that the iBook may not be switched over until the single-core Yonah, and it will have Intel integrated graphics.

[GregA]

You know, I'd like to see a little Apple terminal type thing that you keep around the kitchen by the phone, but very portable. You know, so friends and family can grab it and put it anywhere to surf, or show you their website, or check their mail... but you put it back by the phone and use it for addresses and directions and recipes and playing music. Like a tinier version of the original iMac with a mega cheap screen to keep the costs down and an all in one design (maybe with an attached keyboard and track pad and a dock for iPods... hmm... The processor could be slow, too...

What AM I going on about? :DSome of these 'lite' technologies could be really interesting, I hope Apple jumps on them. These may be what the rumoured "iPod companions" do.

Personally I want an Apple Airport-phone (cordless over wifi) with:
1) iChat voice integration
2) VoIP capabilities to the regular phone network
3) an optional base that connects it to the regular phone network
Actually... they could probably release wired VoIP phones with a little screen and camera too. Plus access to your calendar (iPod style) and address/phone books.

[iEdd]

~snip~
Nope, Apple would be downright stupid to put the dual-core Yonah in the iBook without addressing the PowerBook... And I still think that the iBook may not be switched over until the single-core Yonah, and it will have Intel integrated graphics.
Thank-you. Taken the words right out of my mouth as to why PB should be updated to intel before iB.

[corywoolf]

Maybe the PowerBook will be announced at MWSF "06 however shipped a few months later. :)

If there is going to be a 2GB Shuffle, I am gonna get one if it has a screen. ;) :D

Now I need to see the new case designs. ;)

I doubt it will be a 2 GB shuffle. Hopefully it's just lower prices on smaller shuffles that have bookmarking capability (for when you listen to a song and would like to find out the name the next time you sync). The next rev. of the shuffle (after January's) will likely be 2 GB. I doubt Apple will discontinue the 2 GB nano so soon. Maybe they will only carry the 1 GB shuffle, but it will be $79.99? I would be surprised if they set it at $99.99, but being Apple they might. I am betting they will lower the nano 2GB price quietly to $179.99 to strengthen 2 GB nano sales and then discontinue it at the next nano revision. Can't wait to see the ibooks and mac mini's. I kind of still think it will only be ibooks and shuffles at MWSF along with the other usual updates (ilife, iwork, 10.4.4). I guess they could do both the mac mini and the ibook, but I think they might want to release the mini in a couple months, when they have more video content available and Front Row 2.0 ready. Or may maybe the one more thing will be the mini?

[corywoolf]

Thank-you. Taken the words right out of my mouth as to why PB should be updated to intel before iB.

Except most Pro Apps are not going to run natively on Mactel until mid '06. I doubt there will be Powerbook updates at MWSF, but it is a possibility. Not many graphic designers are going to want to put up with emulation when they could have a non emulated stable version running on a PB G4 for much less.

[hulugu]

You are right, the iMac G5 is NOT a slow computer whatsoever. But once the intels come out, all of the new software coming out will be Intel - not PowerPC (for the most part). It's a hard decision to make.

The dual binaries should keep this from becoming a problem. Remember that Apple's pro workstations are now dual-core G5s. Apple has made it fairly easy to make both versions and I can see many of the pro-apps using this ability. Ideally, this would make Apple independent of not only processor suppliers, but architectures.

[evomac]

This has been going on for quite some time. Every 3-4 weeks amazon has a huge apple mail in rebate deal.


:eek: Whoops!

[corywoolf]

Some of these 'lite' technologies could be really interesting, I hope Apple jumps on them. These may be what the rumoured "iPod companions" do.

Personally I want an Apple Airport-phone (cordless over wifi) with:
1) iChat voice integration
2) VoIP capabilities to the regular phone network
3) an optional base that connects it to the regular phone network
Actually... they could probably release wired VoIP phones with a little screen and camera too. Plus access to your calendar (iPod style) and address/phone books.

Good idea, sounds more like the next isight package.

[hulugu]

...Nope, Apple would be downright stupid to put the dual-core Yonah in the iBook without addressing the PowerBook... And I still think that the iBook may not be switched over until the single-core Yonah, and it will have Intel integrated graphics.

But, if the chip or Powerbooks aren't ready should they withold the iBook line? No, get them out there, sell millions and take that cash to make sure the Powerbook's ready for later release. Some wise sage mentioned that the Pro-users who need Powerbooks will be held back by Adobe and others and that the switch will make less sense until the dual-core chips are ready.

[GregA]

Except most Pro Apps are not going to run natively on Mactel until mid '06. I doubt there will be Powerbook updates at MWSF, but it is a possibility. Not many graphic designers are going to want to put up with emulation when they could have a non emulated stable version running on a PB G4 for much less.I'm not sure how many graphic designers you know. The ones I know don't design on laptops. They want a big non-LCD screen (to get correct colour effects - even though they drool at some of Apple's LCD screens they buy CRT). And they're saying the dual-G4 Powermacs are slow but they do the job.

I don't think graphic designers are show-stoppers. There may be other ones of course.

[1984]

So the iBooks will be better than the PowerBooks in some ways for a few months. I don't see what the problem is.

[iEdd]

So the iBooks will be better than the PowerBooks in some ways for a few months. I don't see what the problem is.
To get these specs on an iBook, expect powerbook pricing. Not so much of an iBook lover now, are you?

[1984]

I doubt it will be a 2 GB shuffle. Hopefully it's just lower prices on smaller shuffles that have bookmarking capability (for when you listen to a song and would like to find out the name the next time you sync).

Most likely they will mirror the look of the iPod nano, only smaller and without the screen So the iPod lineup will consist of three sizes and two colors of the same basic design. Maybe they will add aditional colors for the new Shuffles.

[~Shard~]

But, if the chip or Powerbooks aren't ready should they withold the iBook line? No, get them out there, sell millions and take that cash to make sure the Powerbook's ready for later release.

Exactly - no need to hold back one product for another! Let's get those Intel iBooks out there, with the Intel PowerBooks soon to follow!

the switch will make less sense until the dual-core chips are ready.

Um, the dual core chips are ready. It's the single core Yonahs which will not be out for a little while yet. And technically Apple has its sights on Merom for the portables, but is not going to wait around until late '06 just for that to happen - hence why they're moving forward with Yonah. :cool:

[1984]

To get these specs on an iBook, expect powerbook pricing. Not so much of an iBook lover now, are you?

Huh? If anything the prices will be lower.

[~Shard~]

To get these specs on an iBook, expect powerbook pricing. Not so much of an iBook lover now, are you?

Please explain in detail why the iBooks would cost more, I don't see where you're getting that from.

[Peace]

Except most Pro Apps are not going to run natively on Mactel until mid '06. I doubt there will be Powerbook updates at MWSF, but it is a possibility. Not many graphic designers are going to want to put up with emulation when they could have a non emulated stable version running on a PB G4 for much less.


What is it that makes you believe the pro apps haven't already been ported as universal binaries?

[~Shard~]

What is it that makes you believe the pro apps haven't already been ported as universal binaries?

True - the companies have had essentially 6 months to work on porting, since everything was announced at WWDC... not exactly a short amount of time...

[Randall]

And when the PB's get updated do you complain then that yours isn't as good? No, it's called computer evolution. Deal or don't own one.WTF is this supposed to mean? I NEVER expect a top-of-the-line computer line to be overtaken by a run-of-the-mill line within one generation. This should never happen, and in the PC world it just doesn't happen. Yes computer evolution is expected to occur, and no I don't complain when my PB gets outdated by another newer PB, because that's life. However, I should never see a recently updated PB be overtaken by the very next update of iBooks. That is just pure bs, and would make more then just a few professionals livid. You think that the PB fanbois are whiners now? Wait until something like this happens... these forums will crash because the complaints will overload the server.

[oliverlubin]

So the iBooks will be better than the PowerBooks in some ways for a few months. I don't see what the problem is.

exactly! it's about what will sell in volume. lower cost = increased sales. the ibook has always been the low-end laptop and always will be. no unified line. so what if it's got a better processor. there will be things about it that cant touch the powerbook, most importantly screen size and resolution.

personally i dont understand the constant demand for updating the powerbook. it was recently revealed that the G5 was NEVER destined for a laptop. apple has been doing the best it can with the G4 and keeping pb "good enough" to sell.

unfortunately what might happen is the intel ibook will be limited in some way just to make the future powerbooks look that much better when they do finally come out in the summer.

[iEdd]

Please explain in detail why the iBooks would cost more, I don't see where you're getting that from.
Wasn't it worked out that these Yonah chips will be about 4 times as expensive as a G4? It would seem to me it's only possible in a powerbook at first that way. If I happen to be talking crap, just forget this post and my last one, but I thought we'd been over prices for these chips.

[Peace]

WTF is this supposed to mean? I NEVER expect a top-of-the-line computer line to be overtaken by a run-of-the-mill line within one generation. This should never happen, and in the PC world it just doesn't happen. Yes computer evolution is expected to occur, and no I don't complain when my PB gets outdated by another newer PB, because that's life. However, I should never see a recently updated PB be overtaken by the very next update of iBooks. That is just pure bs, and would make more then just a few professionals livid. You think that the PB fanbois are whiners now? Wait until something like this happens... these forums will crash because the complaints will overload the server.

When a transition like the Intel/Apple transition takes place one should expect things to overlap temporarily.

[caccamolle]

it is just so much fun to go through these posts guys.

There are sooo many Steve Jobs here at MacRumors.

I am just another one and I just wish Apple had dropped that powerpc crap a long time ago. That's what Steve should have done.
Oh well, now that IT IS DONE, who cares whether the iBook or PB gets it first, believe me Steve could not care less about a couple of whiners PB owners !!!

[SiliconAddict]

Are you forgetting the introduction of the Power Mac G5, maybe?

And the 17" PowerBook. This isn't new for Apple.

[Randall]

Except most Pro Apps are not going to run natively on Mactel until mid '06. I doubt there will be Powerbook updates at MWSF, but it is a possibility. Not many graphic designers are going to want to put up with emulation when they could have a non emulated stable version running on a PB G4 for much less.Yes I don't expect Adobe CS to be ready for intel, because they already went on record saying that CS3 will be the first x86 for mac suite. But what makes you think that the majority of the others won't be ready for x86? Did you not see the Wolfram Research guys at MWDC '05 stand up and say that it was a piece of cake to port to x86? Not that I believe them, but basically they are ready for the switch. I have a feeling that most pro apps may be ready sooner then expected (at least the Xcode ones) not to mention the open source ones, which already have Linux (x86) native versions that can easily run on OS X86.

[iEdd]

Intel will help macs catch up to peecees with raw speed, but what's going convince apple to upgrade graphics cards, or at least have an option? :rolleyes:

[Randall]

You guys can't honestly expect an intel ibook with Yonah dual core in it can you? The prices would be compairable to a Powerbook in that case. If you're looking for an Intel iBook at MWSF '06 then look for an "old" single core Dothan based one. :p

Intel will help macs catch up to peecees with raw speed, but what's going convince apple to upgrade graphics cards, or at least have an option? :rolleyes:With x86 comes choices. I believe that a much wider range of graphics cards will be available.

[Peace]

You guys can't honestly expect an intel ibook with Yonah dual core in it can you? The prices would be compairable to a Powerbook in that case. If you're looking for an Intel iBook at MWSF '06 then look for an "old" single core Dothan based one. :p

BINGO!

[iEdd]

You guys can't honestly expect an intel ibook with Yonah dual core in it can you? The prices would be compairable to a Powerbook in that case. If you're looking for an Intel iBook at MWSF '06 then look for an "old" single core Dothan based one. :p
Yeah, just like I said before and a couple of people didn't understand what I meant. I like the way you think, Randall.

[javiercr]

I want my new and improved PowerBook now damn it! NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW! I've been waiting 3 years. If I have to wait another 4 months I'm going to go on a homicidal rampage! http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/images/smiles/new_2gunsfiring_v1.gif:eek: :(

Yah yah I know....http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/images/smiles/boohoo.gif

No more drugs for this guy :p

[GregA]

No more drugs for this guy :p
No more drugs for him? Who knows what a change in his medication might do though!? :-)

[xy14]

The final combination remaining is:

PowerMac & PowerBook!

Yay! Every possible combination of future 'Intel Macs' have now been used!

[GregA]

The final combination remaining is: PowerMac & PowerBook!
Yay! Every possible combination of future 'Intel Macs' have now been used!You forgot Xserve.

How about an "Apple to release Itanium Xserve in January" rumour?

[aristobrat]

WTF is this supposed to mean? I NEVER expect a top-of-the-line computer line to be overtaken by a run-of-the-mill line within one generation. This should never happen, and in the PC world it just doesn't happen.
Like Peace mentioned, when is the last time in the PC world you saw a transition of processors like this?!?!?!

[thejadedmonkey]

Apple has really fallen behind with these things, the core of the current design has been used since May, 2001!

I mean EVERY other line-up has been COMPLETELY CHANGED TWICE, since this design came out... yet the iBook remains mostly the same.


My old Dell laptop, a Latitude CPi, ran XP at a blazing 300mhz, with 128 megs of ram. It had a 13.3" screen, and was roughly the same size as the laptop that I'm using right now, almost 7 years after the Dell was purchased.

In fact, as far as I'm concerned, the dell was the better computer. It felt more rugged and sturdy than the Samsung I'm on now.

But back to speculation...
I think it would be really nice to see a ProBook, iBook, and NoteBook, all with flash supliment drives. The ProBook being the powerhouse of the lineup, the iBook being a consumer end notebook and the NoteBook being a college-oriented notebook with an uber long battery life and a flash drive to prolong battery life, and also handle a lot of the disk I/O so the HDD doesn't die as easily.

[Freelancer]

If you're looking for an Intel iBook at MWSF '06 then look for an "old" single core Dothan based one. :p

Didn't Apple tell developers to code for Dothan anyway?;)

well, it's my 1st post. Hi guys :)

[thejadedmonkey]

Facts? This is MacRumors.com.

Everything is speculation. Apple haven't said they'll be using any processor.

Jobs "And I would like to introduce out newest PowerBook. It's the most revolutionary PowerBook ever. In fact, it's so revolutionary, it won't even use a processor!"

:D

[Randall]

Like Peace mentioned, when is the last time in the PC world you saw a transition of processors like this?!?!?!True, but an architecture transition doesn't excuse the fact that you should get what you pay for. At no point in time should a lower end machine be better then the same generation of higher end machine. Unless of course you're trying to piss off all of your high end customers. A business model like that would defy all logic, no matter how breif a time. I believe that if we see iBook go intel, we must see the Powerbook do so as well.

[zap2]

Come on!!


This is want i need, then i'll get the iBook intel, iPod Shuffle and 5g iPod. So now after my last day of school i just have to wait!

[d_and_n5000]

I think it's pretty much official. All of these except the shuffle have been speculated to death, and the shuufle has been speculated for a little bit. I think all we aren't sure about is whether or not the iBook will come with a black option.

[xy14]

You forgot Xserve.

How about an "Apple to release Itanium Xserve in January" rumour?

Apple to release Itanium Xserve in January

[thejadedmonkey]

Everyone's worried the iBook'll overtake the Powerbook, OMG hell will freeze over, etc etc.

Why not just discontinue the Powerbook for the two months between the new iBooks and Powerbooks. that way, you don't have to worry about your $2000 powerbook being outperfomed by a $1000 iBook.

But what if you need a powerbook? Obvious. Apple would sell their powerbook line as referbs for those two months, and you can get a powerbook for $1000, same price as the iBook, not feel so cheated, and it would be the PPC proc.

Relax guys, Steve's got it covered.

[kasei]

Good news since I've managed to convince 3 people to switch to a Mac (Mac Minis). Hopefully the prices will drop on the older version of Mac Minis making them a steal. I also need to get an iBook for my wife so hopefully the prices will drop on those also.

[iEdd]

But what if you need a powerbook? Obvious. Apple would sell their powerbook line as referbs for those two months
:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: Wow... That's about all I can say, sorry.

[Randall]

Everyone's worried the iBook'll overtake the Powerbook, OMG hell will freeze over, etc etc.

Why not just discontinue the Powerbook for the two months between the new iBooks and Powerbooks. that way, you don't have to worry about your $2000 powerbook being outperfomed by a $1000 iBook.Just for saying that, I hope that Apple puts a Celeron processor in the iBook. Especially for you ;)

[aristobrat]

True, but an architecture transition doesn't excuse the fact that you should get what you pay for. At no point in time should a lower end machine be better then the same generation of higher end machine. Unless of course you're trying to piss off all of your high end customers. A business model like that would defy all logic, no matter how breif a time.
Unless the new iBook has a PC slot, a 15" 1400x960 screen, a backlit keyboard, digital audio in/out, FireWire 800, dongleless DVI-D, and everything else that sets the PBs apart from the iBooks, "being faster" is not going to make a new iBook magically better for a lot of people.

[xyian]

Has anyone stopped to think that Apple might be trying to introduce it's consumer line first because they are trying to switch more people over? C'mon, all power users are going to wait anyway before they switch so why not try to get some new users on board with the better operating system in the PC world?
I think it would be a super smart step on Apple's behalf to introduce the Mini and iBook to the masses before unleashing some real stuff on the Pros. That would give them time to iron out some bugs and issues with the new Intel stuff.

[d_and_n5000]

Everyone's worried the iBook'll overtake the Powerbook, OMG hell will freeze over, etc etc.

Why not just discontinue the Powerbook for the two months between the new iBooks and Powerbooks. that way, you don't have to worry about your $2000 powerbook being outperfomed by a $1000 iBook.

But what if you need a powerbook? Obvious. Apple would sell their powerbook line as referbs for those two months, and you can get a powerbook for $1000, same price as the iBook, not feel so cheated, and it would be the PPC proc.

Relax guys, Steve's got it covered.


actually, that doesn't sound too horrible. Just remember that a lot of stuff looks good on paper, but is really horrible in practice. Good insight, though.

[strange days]

The Pentium D which by most accounts is a craptastic implementation of dual cores kicks the snot out of Yonah in this preview benchmark of video encoding. (http://anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2627&p=6)

...this is just not true; check out the new and improved YONAH benchmarks :

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2648

...we're looking at an A64 X2 4000+ category processor in a laptop ( or hopefully in a Mac Mini ) :D

[ariechel]

If Apple wants to compete with Dell on low cost laptops, they don't have to provide much in the way of features. The basic ($499) entry-level Inspiron B120 has a 14" screen, Celeron M 1.4 GHz processor, 256MB RAM, 40GB hard drive, and a CD-RW/DVD optical drive (and no wireless). The mid-range (~$700) Inspiron B140 has a 15" screen and adds an additional 256MB RAM, 20GB hard drive space, and wireless.

Using a Celeron M processor and integrated graphics and removing Firewire support might put the iBook in the range of these computers, pricewise. The performance and features of such an iBook would be superior to the Dell (due to its integrated software [iLife] and hardware [e.g. Airport] solutions). But it would not encroach on Powerbook territory.

[iEdd]

Using a Celeron M processor and integrated graphics and removing Firewire support might put the iBook in the range of these computers, pricewise.
Wtf? The day apple does that is the day I hang myself. If you can't buy a $1000US laptop with a few decent features you use or not, you shouldn't buy a mac.

[ariechel]

BTW what makes everyone so sure that Apple is in a hurry to push Intel machines onto the market? The laptop line has worked with G4 processors for years already; what's another few months more?

In a few months, more universal binary applications are likely to be available, Merom may be available (or not), the single core Yonah should be an option...

[Hiroshige]

How much faster would a dual core intel at 1.5Ghz be than a 1.5Ghz G4? Would that speed increase overshadow the Current P-book line?

Don't forget faster memory access compared to the G4 167 Mhz bus.

[ariechel]

Wtf? The day apple does that is the day I hang myself. If you can't buy a $1000US laptop with a few decent features you use or not, you shouldn't buy a mac.

I am not saying that they will abandon the $1000+ iBook but rather that they could additionally introduce a sub-$1000 laptop. For some people, having a Celeron processor and integrated graphics and lacking Firewire might not be a problem.

If you are using your computer for word processing, email, and Internet, you probably don't need more processing power or graphics capabilities than this type of laptop would offer. And if you have the money to purchase accessories that need Firewire (external hard drives, digital camcorders), you probably are not going to go for a sub-$1000 laptop.

[Prom1]

Norse Son has great reasoning on this Dual Core Yonah's showing up in the PowerBooks;

NAPA >> remember & think do you think Apple will allow an iBook have 2MB L2 cache (something in 7 pages no1 mentioned) even though shared by 2 cpus' (its quite possible 1 cpu if not over powered could use all 2MB of the L2 cache) to outspec the PowerBooks.

Another thought ... this new Intel cpu & board components will support 802.11b/g/a thats right A as well. This is new terrritory for Apple. I'd rather see better support for 802.11i/e for Quality of Service for Video transport over WiFi along with smoother VoIP usuage.

And best of all, speculative but possible, APPLE make this new PowerBook support UPnP over WiFi. Apple worked with Nokia over 7months for their new browser in the upcoming Nokia E61/N80/E70/N92!!

UPnP go out for the bike ride in the trails or hanging out this spring with the other love birds and take 3MP pics and qVGA videos on the N80 and do iSync over BT v2.0, or transport and view pictures (in slideshow) videos images on your Mac!!!!:eek: :D :cool: ;) OR Vice versa.

Heck better yet allow support for the iMac/iSight for Photo Booth over your UPnP of your 3MP Nokia N80 smartphone~!!!! uhhh mmm, I think I just creamed myself.

But seriously there is a lot of power in this to go into the consumer lineup.

But I wonder what Apple is planning for the consumer target lineup to women? An iBook fashioned Razr type notebook to go with their Moto Razr Pink shipping in time for say February 14/05 .... Valentines Day?!:o

[strange days]

i'd like to see an option to configure your Mac Mini with any available Yonah processor inside, if you're willing to pay the price...

...i'd be even happier to see an option to configure the graphic card including the X1000 AVIVO series from ATI.

i would pay 1000$ no problem for a 2.0Ghz Mac Mini with an X1000 AVIVO card inside ( don't care if it's revamped to accomodate a 3.5" HD; actually, that could even be better ! )... :rolleyes:

[digitalbiker]

I don't consider a Higher Resolution screen an "upgrade" any more then just a "Sorry we can't get the G5 into a Powerbook, so here is your higher resolution screen to hold you over until June of 2006 because we're going to make the iBooks better then your Powerbook I hope you don't mind"

Have you used a new PB?

It is really an excellent laptop. The screens are magnificent. It runs much cooler and longer than the older model. Pro software runs as fast as you could want. It multitasks beautifully. Mine has a 100 GB 7200 rpm drive with 2gb or ram and it kicks but.

Without using power saving I easily get about 5 - 6 hours on my battery now. I even get 3.5 to 4 hours watching DVD's. It has a very fast dual layer DVD burner. My business partner has an Insprion POC with a Pentium-M 2.1 Ghz processor. I can encoded DVD's, run mail, surf the internet, and run OpenGl Starry Night Pro Plus all at the same time much faster and smoother than my partner.

He lusts after my PB!

I'm very happy and I think people are inflating the expectations for this first Intel-Apple laptop to unreal status. I will happily wait while Apple brings the new Intel Laptop along until it reaches the level of maturity and quality that my new PB G4 is right now.

[digitalbiker]

What is it that makes you believe the pro apps haven't already been ported as universal binaries?

Well the leading 3rd party software developer ADOBE has already said it would be late 2006, early 2007 before their native version of the CS would be released and now that they own Macromedia I guess it is a double whammy of pro apps.

Also Microsoft has made several off handed remarks about in the same time frame as ADOBE.

Alias is always playing catch up with MAYA. So I wouldn't say that it is too much of a stretch to think that alot of x86 native Pro Apps won't be available until late 2006.

[backdraft]

http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=348

[Peace]

Well the leading 3rd party software developer ADOBE has already said it would be late 2006, early 2007 before their native version of the CS would be released and now that they own Macromedia I guess it is a double whammy of pro apps.

Also Microsoft has made several off handed remarks about in the same time frame as ADOBE.

Alias is always playing catch up with MAYA. So I wouldn't say that it is too much of a stretch to think that alot of x86 native Pro Apps won't be available until late 2006.

Adobe and Microsoft arn't the only "pro apps" companies out there.

But I was actually referring to Apple's pro apps more than Adobe..
Any "pro app" user wouldn't be using a low-end iBook for "pro apps" anyway.

[themacman]

Adobe and Microsoft arn't the only "pro apps" companies out there.

But I was actually referring to Apple's pro apps more than Adobe..
Any "pro app" user wouldn't be using a low-end iBook for "pro apps" anyway.
but they are the main pro app companies. Apple Adobe and Micrsoft make a large majority of pro apps.

[Peace]

but they are the main pro app companies. Apple Adobe and Micrsoft make a large majority of pro apps.


I'd be willing to bet Apple's "pro apps" are universal binaries right now;)

<edit> Look at it logically..Steve Jobs tells people there really was another build of OSX for the Intel platform all along and at the same time Apple didn't compile their pro apps to run on that very same platform ??
HA!
</edit>

[digitalbiker]

Adobe and Microsoft arn't the only "pro apps" companies out there.
But I was actually referring to Apple's pro apps more than Adobe..
Any "pro app" user wouldn't be using a low-end iBook for "pro apps" anyway.

No, I realize what you are saying but Adobe, Macromedia, MS,etc kind of set the pace for the Pro Mac community. I'm sure that Apple will release their x86 Pro software soon however they probably do have their hands full with OS X, iLife, and the other consumer apps.

Obviously the ibook is not intended for the Pro user and that is why it probably makes more sense to update it to Intel first.

[tjwett]

Good news since I've managed to convince 3 people to switch to a Mac (Mac Minis). Hopefully the prices will drop on the older version of Mac Minis making them a steal. I also need to get an iBook for my wife so hopefully the prices will drop on those also.

Apple doesn't drop prices, they increase features.

[digitalbiker]

I'd be willing to bet Apple's "pro apps" are universal binaries right now;)

<edit> Look at it logically..Steve Jobs tells people there really was another build of OSX for the Intel platform all along and at the same time Apple didn't compile their pro apps to run on that very same platform ??
HA!
</edit>

Well this is kind of misleading isn't it. I mean originally OS X started on x86 with NEXT Computer. Basically it was converted and optimized for PPC. So bringing forward an x86 version wasn't really a big deal, but it didn't get all of the nice updates it was just a shell step child.
Now that OS X is switching back to x86 they are working like crazy to get the x86 version updated and optimized. Sounds like they are just about there already.

[Peace]

Well this is kind of misleading isn't it. I mean originally OS X started on x86 with NEXT Computer. Basically it was converted and optimized for PPC. So bringing forward an x86 version wasn't really a big deal, but it didn't get all of the nice updates it was just a shell step child.
Now that OS X is switching back to x86 they are working like crazy to get the x86 version updated and optimized. Sounds like they are just about there already.

But OSX86 did get all those updates along side the PPC..Jobs said they kept pace with each other.
I just can't see the engineers playing in the lab with OSX for both platforms and not saying to themselves " say..since we're doing this maybe we should be ready with our flagship apps too"

It just makes sense ( to me at least :p ) that Apple would keep up to date on the apps side too.

[digitalbiker]

But OSX86 did get all those updates along side the PPC..Jobs said they kept pace with each other.
I just can't see the engineers playing in the lab with OSX for both platforms and not saying to themselves " say..since we're doing this maybe we should be ready with our flagship apps too"

It just makes sense ( to me at least :p ) that Apple would keep up to date on the apps side too.

Yeah it makes sense but I think Jobs was using his reality distortion field again during that presentation. Because if they really had been keeping pace with each other then why 6 six months later are they still working on getting OS x for x86 out (They have been sending beta versions to developers).

Also if pro apps had been experimentally ported to x86, Why didn't Jobs demo FCP on the x86 OSX demo at WWDC. The version of OSX that Jobs was demoing seemed to be lacking many apps for him to wow the audience with.

[lind0834]

They could easily introduce the iBook with a Dual Core and not cannibalize sales. Making a f

First, they drop the screen to 13.3 and anybody who want to do serious video will rule that out, it would be ridiculous.

Second, they announce that they aren't releasing x86 native pro apps yet because "They aren't ready". I could hear Steve saying "We are still working on optimizing Final Cut and Aperture for the new architecture, and the speed boost is astounding". If they keep the Pro Apps under their hat until the Pro Hardware is released they won't cannibalize any sales at all. People who need the hardware will get the G4 and the G5 because it will run the apps they need faster than the x86 will emulate them.

Once they are ready to release the new Pro Hardware, they will release the Pro Software. Until then, the speed won't be an issue. I tip my hat to them for controlling their hardware and software.

[Peace]

Yeah it makes sense but I think Jobs was using his reality distortion field again during that presentation. Because if they really had been keeping pace with each other then why 6 six months later are they still working on getting OS x for x86 out (They have been sending beta versions to developers).

Also if pro apps had been experimentally ported to x86, Why didn't Jobs demo FCP on the x86 OSX demo at WWDC. The version of OSX that Jobs was demoing seemed to be lacking many apps for him to wow the audience with.

Well ya have me there..I'm using a dev kit so I can't go any further into this specific thread..
<disclaimer>Thats not to imply I know something other's don't tho..</disclaimer> Because I don't..Mere speculation!

[amateurmacfreak]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

ThinkSecret cites (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0512yonah.html) "reliable sources" in reporting that Apple plans on introducing new iBooks, Mac minis and iPod shuffles at Macworld San Francisco (http://guides.macrumors.com) in January 2006.

Intel is expected to launch the dual-core version of Yonah -- its new notebook processor -- in January. Low-votage versions are expected to come in at 1.5GHz, 1.66GHz and 1.83GHz speeds, while the "performance" version will ship at 1.66GHz, 1.83GHz, 2.0GHz and 2.16GHz speeds.

ThinkSecret speculates that low-voltage 1.5GHz Yonah iBooks may see be announced in January, while "performance" Yonah procesors may come later in PowerBooks.

No further details about the Mac mini or iPod shuffle are available from the rumor site, although the 1GB iPod shuffle is presently out of stock (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2005/12/20051217124526.shtml) at the Apple store.

Ah!! I hope the iBooks (or really, preferably iBooks, any laptop would be fine) in January happen.... I'm expecting it so much, and I've told a person to wait until January to buy an iBook. It seems like everyone around me is buying an iBook, and I want to say, "NO!! WAIT!! MWSF IN JANUARY!!" But I have someone who is waiting.... hope I can count on new, awesome, not too expensive (low thousand-range) laptops in January!! It's going to be such a fun month!!

[digitalbiker]

Well ya have me there..I'm using a dev kit so I can't go any further into this specific thread..

Having said all that, I do believe that Apple will release their Pro Apps very soon. I also suspect that there are quite a few developers who have plans to release x86 native versions of their software soon.
For anyone interested, I received an email from the Starry Night Support Group saying that their pro plus package would be released native for OSX x86 very soon after Apple announces the release of OSX on x86 and new hardware.

[~Shard~]

Alright, alright, to satisfy all you Yonah nay-sayers, how about this - the iBooks will be updated with 7448 and the PowerBooks will get a 970GX. :eek: :p :cool:

[Randall]

Yeah it makes sense but I think Jobs was using his reality distortion field again during that presentation. Because if they really had been keeping pace with each other then why 6 six months later are they still working on getting OS x for x86 out (They have been sending beta versions to developers).

Also if pro apps had been experimentally ported to x86, Why didn't Jobs demo FCP on the x86 OSX demo at WWDC. The version of OSX that Jobs was demoing seemed to be lacking many apps for him to wow the audience with.Yeah maybe it wasn't ready for him to be showing everything, but the stuff that he did cover was plenty fast IMO, and that's with a single core P4 remember. AFAIK, the developers using the DTK have been doing great (those that have Xcode projects anyway) :p And I think a lot of developers are sitting on fat binaries as we speak, some have already released them, and others are probably waiting for the big news/still finalizing the testing. I think this transition will go quite well. (Even better then the switch from OS 9 to OS X, which sometimes could be a bitch, with all of the "Classic" emulation. Yuck, I'm glad we made it past that. We'll get through this too.

[Randall]

Having said all that, I do believe that Apple will release their Pro Apps very soon. I also suspect that there are quite a few developers who have plans to release x86 native versions of their software soon.
For anyone interested, I received an email from the Starry Night Support Group saying that their pro plus package would be released native for OSX x86 very soon after Apple announces the release of OSX on x86 and new hardware.BINGO, there are a ton of developers sitting on the release of OS X86 to the masses. :cool:

here is just a small list of apps that are already ported, and there are countless more that are awaiting official word from Apple that OS X86 has been released, before making their Universal Binaries available.
http://www.osx86.theplaceforitall.com/software/

[GregA]

But OSX86 did get all those updates along side the PPC..Jobs said they kept pace with each other.
I just can't see the engineers playing in the lab with OSX for both platforms and not saying to themselves " say..since we're doing this maybe we should be ready with our flagship apps too"

It just makes sense ( to me at least :p ) that Apple would keep up to date on the apps side too.I tend to agree - and if Apple couldn't easily get their software ported to x86 then it doesn't say much for their promise of easy porting for other developers does it.

However, I was surprised that iTunes wasn't native until recently.

Given that you are an Apple developer, you've got some insider knowledge of course :) (whether its a tiny bit, or a lot, who knows!)

[~Shard~]

Yeah maybe it wasn't ready for him to be showing everything, but the stuff that he did cover was plenty fast IMO, and that's with a single core P4 remember.

Agreed. And the beautiful thing is that Apple didn't switch to Intel for existing architectures like the P4, Xeon, etc. - they switched much better, faster architectures like Yonah, Merom, Conroe and Woodcrest. If you think stuff screams on that P4 dev box, just wait until Apple puts the "real" Intel chips in those machines. ;) :cool:

[QUOTE=Randall]BINGO, there are a ton of developers sitting on the release of OS X86 to the masses. :cool: [?QUOTE]

I agree. I think since Jobs's initial announcement almost 6 months ago, a large number of developers have been hard at work and are waiting in the wings with their x86 releases. Exciting times!

[edenwaith]

Sure, why not? I guess these predictions aren't completely wild. But I'm not fully expecting anything until mid-2006. But Apple has been famously difficult to second guess, especially when they do manage to bring out a surprise that no one ever expected.

But if anything, they'll probably preview new versions of iLife and iWork. C'mon spreadsheet! I was hoping that iWork would be a suitable replacement for MS Word, but it just doesn't flow quite right as a word processor, so I've spent more time using programs like Word and Nisus Writer Express, and even occasionally slipping back to AppleWorks! What I'd really like to see would be an app that is a cross between AppleWorks Paint and Draw...sort of a mix between Photoshop Elements and a Illustrator Elements (if it existed)...not quite pro-level app for graphic design and manipulation, but very useful for the more casual user.

[nataku]

ugh. not another one! ibooks out of the door first before powerbooks?! i seriously think that it should be the other way around. it would most probably outperform the current rev. of the powerbook g4, considering that altivec is now implemented in the x86 OS X. it might hurt sales. then again... this is only a rumor and if the previous report of "fashionable" laptops is true, the ibook would probably be the victi...err... lucky one! :D

January has to come soonER so that we can breathe easily again.

* oh please oh please! let the stylish laptops save us from the fashion disaster we are in!! ;)

[progx]

while i am optimistic about the transition, i've still had this lingering feeling.

now that apple is at their pinnacle of engineering, the Quad G5, all that development will now shift to intel.

i think apple wants to divert more money into its hottest product: the iPod.

a lot of my computer friends have been saying that to me frequently, "it seems apple wants to make ipods for their rest of their lives." it seems rather relevant and is starting to make sense.

on the transition, yeah intel will be high on us for a while, walking like vince mcmahon after he bought wcw and parading to the whole business world. just like the wwe did to the wcw fans, they moved on. intel has higher paying customers, so who's to say that intel will soon view apple as just another customer.

anyhow, it was just a lingering feeling.

[EricNau]

...on the transition, yeah intel will be high on us for a while, walking like vince mcmahon after he bought wcw and parading to the whole business world. just like the wwe did to the wcw fans, they moved on. intel has higher paying customers, so who's to say that intel will soon view apple as just another customer.

anyhow, it was just a lingering feeling.
But Apple is special! :p :D :cool:

[balamw]

Apple doesn't drop prices, they increase features.
While generally true this does not exclude the release of new lower priced products with reduced functionality. The Mac Mini, iPod Shuffle and the iPod nano are all examples of this contrarian trend.

I think a sub $1K portable is quite likely, the iBook equivalent to the Mac mini, but Apple is bound to have a clever twist on defining a new product in that category. e.g. it's a 10" tablet/super PDA with no optical drive, just an SD slot.

B

[EricNau]

While generally true this does not exclude the release of new lower priced products with reduced functionality. The Mac Mini, iPod Shuffle and the iPod nano are all examples of this contrarian trend.

I think a sub $1K portable is quite likely, the iBook equivalent to the Mac mini, but Apple is bound to have a clever twist on defining a new product in that category. e.g. it's a 10" tablet/super PDA with no optical drive, just an SD slot.

B
The Nano wasn't cheaper than anything equivalent before it. Actually, this is one case with Apple where you spent more and got less. ($200 for a 2 GB Nano, compared to $200 of a 4 GB Mini).

[ph0rce]

no idea if this has already been posted but...

surley the name "PowerBook" would be a bit stupid for a laptop using an Intel CPU as the "PowerBook" at the moment runs a PowerPC Chip doesn't it....


This in my view means that they are going to have to think of a new name instead of "power" for there high end computers.

It would make sence to kill off the Power Book and Power Mac lines when the Intel CPUs come in.

The iBook wouolld be ideal for them as the i could double as "Intel"...

Did steve jobs not say that they would be roling them out bit by bit and that the cheaper "budget" lines would be out first.

I think a new iPod will come out here. possibly because there are not enough 2GB chips to go round and they need to be making some money insdead of none at all.

MacMini would be cool. hopefuly be same size and still silent. hope it has FrontRow 2 on it and possibly come in two configurations.... one slower, and one faster ;)

at the end of the day we are just wasting our time on here atm. It's all just rumors and we won't know anything untill we are refreshing safari on the apple store waiting for it to come back online or we're on some techno site thats giving us "Live Updates" from the Mac World....

enjoy xmas!

[Platform]

Yeah....Yonah in a mini.....:D :D

But please include a core image compatible GPU...DDR2 :D

[mhar4]

But if anything, they'll probably preview new versions of iLife and iWork. C'mon spreadsheet! I was hoping that iWork would be a suitable replacement for MS Word, but it just doesn't flow quite right as a word processor

"Pages" is a disaster, a big step back from Appleworks in terms of functionality, and with some serious bugs. If Apple are serious about "switchers" they need to address this huge gap of an effective, professional Apple-branded word processor, not the buggy toy program they sell at the moment.

[Nicken]

Don´t know if anybody has made this point but i think that Apple wants to get a good, cheap intel laptop out as fast as they can to benefit from their ipodsales. CNBC reported yesterday that christmassales in applestores where going great. They also said that ipodbuyers are three times more likely to buy apple computers.

21 days 7 hours and 58 minutes left to Macworld Expo....

[Stridder44]

Why wait on Powerbooks? If Apple updates the iBooks any more then they already are without touching the Powerbooks, then the iBooks will be better. Especially considering that the dual core Yonah's will be available in January, and they will surely blow the G4 away. I think that would make the Powerbook owners livid, and this better not be true. I didn't pay for a top-end laptop only to have it be blown out by the lower end line. **************

Im guessing since you visit MacRumors often, you didn't see this coming?

[Rockin' Az]

Previous posters have suggested that Apple might replace both iBook and Powerbooks with a single notebook line. That would just be silly, c'mon.. iBook and PowerBook are established brands with distinctive and different customer bases.. why change a winning combination?

Of course estblished brand didn't save the iPod Mini. Why change a winning combination? Because the shift to x86 is a watershed moment for Apple - just as the shift to PPC was. If you were going to change the branding of your products - a change like this would seem to be as good an opportunity as you are ever likely to get. That doesn't mean it will happen - but if it was going to, the x86 shift is a better time than most.

I suspect the Intel based machine lineup will look like a logical evolution of the current machines, rather than revolutions. The main reason being that Apple can not afford to confuse its customer base any further...

Maybe..maybe not - only Apple knows! There are numerous ways Apple could market their laptops. They could, for example, brand them based on size - 12"(or 13" widescreen), 15" and 17" - with a high-end and low-end machine in each range. Whether they do or not is another matter, but their are ways of differentiating their products without having to use a consumer/professional distinction.

If they do dump the iBook/Powerbook lines, I don't think that Apple run too much risk of confusing their customer base. In recent years, Apple have used sensible, easy to recall, names for their machines. Provided they stick to that principle (e.g. no T31 ST5768Yb type names) their customers will not get too confused.

One thing I do think will happen though, is that regardless of whether Apple's Intel laptops get rebranded or not; the existing G4 Powerbooks will remain available in some form (perhaps just 15", or 15 and 17) until the major 3rd party pro-apps (Adobe etc) are ported to x86. I think this would be done in a way similar to when Apple kept OS 9 machines available after they released the first OS X-only G4 Powermacs.

[ASP272]

I hope we will see a Mac Mini that not only has Front Row 2.0, but the video recording software we've heard rumors about. This way, you can plug your Mac Mini into the TV and record your favorite TV shows and Voila! Death to the Tivo! With this software technology included, they can keep the Mac Mini at the same price point despite the cheaper processor inside. Question is, is the Intel processor going to be cheaper than the PowerPC?

[~Shard~]

Question is, is the Intel processor going to be cheaper than the PowerPC?

I think Apple will find a way to make that happen... ;)

[Randall]

"Pages" is a disaster, a big step back from Appleworks in terms of functionality, and with some serious bugs. If Apple are serious about "switchers" they need to address this huge gap of an effective, professional Apple-branded word processor, not the buggy toy program they sell at the moment.Ever heard of Microsoft Word and Microsoft Excel? I know a bunch of people hate M$ on this board, but no matter how much you hate them you have to admit, Word and Excel are some of the best word processor and spreadsheets around. Office 2004 for Mac is awsome, and I expect 2006 to be great as well. Office is one application suite that Microsoft did right. :)