Digital Media Device? [Archive]

arainert

Jan 6, 2003, 11:11 AM

I really, really hope that it isn't merely an iTablet.

I think the idea of a video iPod also seems very silly.

But...

The ideas buried within those are interesting.

I had been hoping for an Apple component that could hook up to both an A/V receiver as well as an Ethernet cable (Bluetooth and Wireless don't hurt but if you're going to be transferring large media, you want to stay away from Bluetooth).

It's form factor could be sleek and it could serve as a media hub but not overwhelm your living space like the monoliths MS is pushing.

Anyway, reading about all the tablet rumors got me thinking... what about something that does serve as a media "server" but that uses this Tablet as the interface for it - allowing you to control the audio, images, etc... on your network (a true DLD for a Digital Lifestyle), load up photos/movies and pass it around to people for viewing (an iFrame kind of approach), as well as simple functionality using inkwell (iTablet), easily also use it as a great A/V remote interface to control the rest of your equipment with a GUI (like those fancy Harmon Kardon remotes).

MS's Tablet approach is not ready to be received yet, but Apple could focus on the interaction as a way of more gently introducing the metaphor of pen-based interaction for users. Eventually, if someone wanted to, they could get a Bluetooth keyboard from the device. I think the key is - people don't necessarily want to check their email, use excel, etc.. on a Tablet just yet, but they might like to surf the web, etc...

A Tablet doesn;t have to be "a complete computer you use with a pen" but it can be an easy way for you to maintain, display and control you Digital Lifestyle artifacts...

So, I really think that a pure Tablet, Camera, Phone, PDA would really be pointless and can't possibly be the big intro in the "most important year" for Apple.

At least I hope not...

my 2 cents...

thebladerunner

Jan 6, 2003, 11:20 AM

from that article...
____
Analysts are agog over the forthcoming personal video player, or PVP, that chipmaker Intel and ReplayTV maker SONICblue are working on. Intel will show off several prototypes of the Walkman-sized PVP, with a 4-inch screen and storage for more than 10 hours of movies.

The Intel PVP won't be the first such device. France's Archos released its $399 Jukebox Multimedia, with a 1-inch screen, last year.

Analysts also admit pent-up reverence for the finally emerging wireless "smart displays" such as the ViewSonic airpanel and Philips iPronto. Both are the first of a slew of such products using touch-screen technology Microsoft announced at last year's CES, under the name Mira.

Instead of tethering computer users to a desk, smart displays allow folks to wander the house or office with a screen that links wirelessly with the computer.
____

So, according to news.com, Apple's new device incorporate both types of devices into *one* device:

- Personal Video Player / Video iPod

- Wireless connectivity (Bluetooth and 802g) for sync and wireless surfing.

Excellent...

Tue12

Jan 6, 2003, 11:34 AM

Any of the devices mentioned so far will be a total flop. They are all devices in search of a need that simply doesn't exist.

julzmon

Jan 6, 2003, 11:48 AM

Logic tells me that it will be this device....
A box with firewire, airport. You will be able to hook it up to TV and Stereo to play music and video from your computer off the airport. and be able to hook up your camera through firewire.

I think this is it

jayscheuerle

Jan 6, 2003, 11:49 AM

Originally posted by thebladerunner
Intel will show off several prototypes of the Walkman-sized PVP, with a 4-inch screen and storage for more than 10 hours of movies.

Gee, that sure beats watching a DVD on my TV in stereo...

iPod works because the sound quality doesn't decrease with the small form factor.

PVP's won't because a tiny picture translates into a much worse viewing experience.

I wish I got paid a lot to come up with bad ideas..

jayscheuerle

Jan 6, 2003, 11:52 AM

Originally posted by julzmon
Logic tells me that it will be this device....
A box with firewire, airport. You will be able to hook it up to TV and Stereo to play music and video from your computer off the airport. and be able to hook up your camera through firewire.

I think this is it

I didn't think Airport had enough bandwith to transmit full screen audio/video....

arainert

Jan 6, 2003, 11:54 AM

I really hope julzman nailed it. Something that is relatively simple but can really change the way you deal with digital media AND stay out of the 400 dollar price range. AND it could be small enough to fit into those silly 6 inch acrylics everyone was yammering on about.

Maybe I'm thinking too simple but this sounds like something that would give a lot of bang for the buck...

Much more so than a damn 3 inch video screen that I can nestle up to after a 3 hour DVD ripping session - which brings up the point that ripping the DVD might actually take longer than the battery life of such a device.

dongmin

Jan 6, 2003, 11:55 AM

yeah, where's the demand, for a PVP or DLD or whatever people are calling it?

Tivo is great, I admit. It takes a common activity, recording TV in this case, and does it much much better. Just like the iPod.

But do people really want to watch TV on the go? In the subways, so that you can get mugged? While jogging? Walking in the park?

The only way I'd buy one is if it worked as a video phone, working in conjuntion with Rendezvous and iChat. So that I can carry this devices anywhere within an Airport network and be able to video-chat, like I do with a cellphone. My take:

Useless:
1. digital picture frame

Mildly useful:
2. TV on the go
3. web-pad

Useful:
4. portable video-phone/video-conferencing device

For everything else, we already have cell-phones and PDAs. Would people really be willing to pay $600-800 for TV-on-the-go? I doubt it. But if you combined all 4 of the above features plus all the PDA and iPod functions, it could be a big seller.

Hmm

Jan 6, 2003, 12:05 PM

Originally posted by smashedapart
so whatever they come out with had better be cheap.

I can almost guarantee that whatever it is, it won't be cheap.

chubakka

Jan 6, 2003, 12:08 PM

the 802.11g... 4 to 5 times faster (theoretically than 802.11b)...

maybe the device will be a media control center between the tv/stereo and the computer... also can show photos and iMovies.... there's lots of possibilites.

thebladerunner

Jan 6, 2003, 12:13 PM

Originally posted by dongmin

Useful:
4. portable video-phone/video-conferencing device

For everything else, we already have cell-phones and PDAs. Would people really be willing to pay $600-800 for TV-on-the-go? I doubt it. But if you combined all 4 of the above features plus all the PDA and iPod functions, it could be a big seller. [/B]

I think the Video iPod doesn't rule this out and will include this for later

* Think of the upcoming iChat2.0 (rumored to have video-conferencing) and the fact Apple is now the supplier MPEG4 players for NTT Docomo phones in Japan.

* 802g could also allow it to work as a wireless phone in your office (VoIP) and use your fix line.

I think the iPhone could be a simple add-on to the Video iPod. And since you have Bluetooth, no need to hold a large device when making calls. There are enough already enough Bluetooth headsets out there....

Frobozz

Jan 6, 2003, 12:21 PM

This CNET article is one of the best, and most believable. Their comments towards the end are of particular interest. They talk about things analysts have seen in the lab, and include computers with 3D displays! I know this is surely an experimental device but it sure is cool. Additionally, they speak of the IBM 970 based computers... which is yet more ammunition for a summer release of the G5.

Overall, this show should be good. I am personally waiting for a Radeon 9700 aftermarket card for my DP 1 GHz Quicksilver... and am glad I will have, essetially, a top of the heap computer until the 970's later this year.

You know what no-one has really been talking about? Apple's software and hardware partners. In MWNY they brought on a lot of good people to show off the power of OS X, and even the CEO of Sony/Ericsson for bluetooth support. What about the CEO of Quark showing it off on OS X? I think the first 3/4 of this year will pan out something like this:

Jan/Feb.: We get the iPod 2, speed bumps on pro machines, updates to iApps, bluetooth support, and a trandition to cordless and optical 2 or 3 button mice.

March/April: xRAID and and some speed bumps to the portable lines.

July/August: G5 announcements or release. OS X 10.3, and a full conversion to bluetooth.

drastik

Jan 6, 2003, 12:23 PM

I don't see the portable video as a viable solution on its own. These things have never made money and they have been trying it in different formats for years. Portable DVD players with six inch screens are common products, but I've only known one owner of such a thing. Portable hi-8 decks were a disaster, and I'm sure the watchman Tvs sell to ten year olds, but thats about it. I just don't see the market for one of these things. Battery life is going to be super short, no one needs one for any reall purpose, and apple has gotten trouble with Gee-wiz stuff before. It would be a dumb move.

Now, if this thing is a TiVo type deal, that might bve different, but I still see no need for a four inch color screen. What are you going to watch on it? I've used eight inch screens, and they are almost worthless. Ever try to edit your video on your cameras screen. Give me a break.

frankenm

Jan 6, 2003, 12:24 PM

So there will obviously be an 802.11g airport device coming. My question is if that will have a better range than the current version. I know it promises to offer more bandwidth, but what about range?

I definitely think we are in store for a wireless device that connects to TV & Stereo. You'll be able to play iTunes right into the stereo wirelessly, and use iPhoto and other video apps and have them sent to the TV.

In order to do this, we'll all have to pay the upgrade fee for the new iApp bundle. That kinda sucks, but it will be worth it I'm sure. We need to keep the best computer company in business. =)

Timothy

Jan 6, 2003, 12:25 PM

Speaking for the Pro-PDA crowd, this rumored device sounds interesting, BUT...if this is all it does, I will be mildly dissapointed, and probably won't be spending any money on such a product.

The iPod makes sense because, even though it was expensive, I am a music fanatic, and this fundamentally changed the way I listen to music. I use my iPod everyday. It is now vital piece of technology in my life.

I already own a Tivo, and that too, was a life-changing piece of tech. It's great; if you don't have one yet, get it, and you won't look back. The only thing left, for me, related to the Tivo is the ability to burn a DVD to back up or save programs. I expect this will happen in the next couple of years, combinbing a DVD-R drive into the Tivo unit. That will solve that...

Do I want portable video? I think it would be nice as an added feature to a feature-rich PDA. How often would I use it? At most, perhaps 1-2 month. I'd not use it to watch feature length movies...I can see saving my iMovies and pictures of my kids, small presentations, etc. But, I wouldn't spend much money on a device that didn't do much more than this. As a secondary feature to a much more useful item, such as included on a PDA, that would be great! And, I'd spend $600-$900 on a great Apple-branded Ultra Computing device. But, I'd expect such a device to completely replace my iPod, and any VidPod.

But, the fundamental question is how much more I would spend on essentially a video-enabled iPod? Given that the use of images and video would be a relatively rare use for such a device compared to how often I use the MP3 player, I'd not spend more than $100 more for a video-enabled iPod.

I fear the wow factor will be cool for such a device tomorrow, but that sales will be dissapointing.

APPLE...WE NEED AN ULTRA-PORTABLE COMPUTING DEVICE. THOSE OF US COMMITTED TO YOUR PLATFORM ARE LACKING THIS KEY PIECE OF DIGITAL LIFESTYLE TECHNOLOGY!!!

MacKid

Jan 6, 2003, 12:25 PM

Originally posted by jayscheuerle

I didn't think Airport had enough bandwith to transmit full screen audio/video....

It doesn't…………

contempt

Jan 6, 2003, 12:29 PM

Although a portable video player would be cool, it would be downright stupid. I watch videos on my Clie and people can do it on their PocketPCs as well. Why just a device that does only one thing.

I really think julzmon is on to something. An Apple branded PVR! ReplayTV already allows for sharing shows via ethernet with other users. Imagine using your current TV to not only watch and record shows, but wirelessly transmit programs from your computer, have iphoto slideshows on the tv, play audio, etc. With full 802.11g support and bluetooth, that would be killer. I'd trade-in my Replay for that. Beats the hell out of Microsoft's Entertainment PC. And if it could only be priced at $199!!! wow!

Then maybe there could be the option for a portable video ipod that you sync via bluetooth. That's a bundle I would purchase.

Also, let's not forget that the last prediction News.com made was NO SUPERDRIVE in the upcoming powerbook g4s which they were wrong about.

djniche

Jan 6, 2003, 12:31 PM

this device i think should be some kind of tablet that allows the digital hub to be use at 100%.
To view photos directly from it or from another computer through rendevou technology. The same would be to have an ipod or juke box throught itunes. I would love to use this tablet as a controller to access my imac from my living room or anywhere in my apt to accesss all my media files. Movies, music and photos. I can see this being what apple is getting ready for us.

what do you think???

Kid Red

Jan 6, 2003, 12:33 PM

Originally posted by dongmin

Useless:
1. digital picture frame

Mildly useful:
2. TV on the go
3. web-pad

Useful:
4. portable video-phone/video-conferencing device

You are forgetting an iPod type device that could sync with iPhoto and store photos, sync with iMovie and store video, and play all the same on your TV along with plug into your stereo and play tunes synced from iTunes with visuals on the tv.

kcmac

Jan 6, 2003, 12:42 PM

I like julzmans' idea. We have always talked about something like this in our house. Beyond the Apple apps, what if something like the Playstation 2, Gamecube or that other game box could wirelessly connect to your TV to another room.

I think something like this device could make people want to buy more game boxes.

Watching DVD's, slideshows, etc from the computer wireless to a TV anywhere in the house would really rock!

From an earlier show, didn't Phillips make it sound like they would be putting some of this technology (rendezvous) into their future versions of TV's? Julzmans' device could be more of an adapter to facilitate the technology until it becomes commonplace.

jayscheuerle

Jan 6, 2003, 12:42 PM

Originally posted by Timothy
S
I already own a Tivo, and that too, was a life-changing piece of tech. It's great; if you don't have one yet, get it, and you won't look back. The only thing left, for me, related to the Tivo is the ability to burn a DVD to back up or save programs. I expect this will happen in the next couple of years, combinbing a DVD-R drive into the Tivo unit. That will solve that...

Isn't Tivo's default resolution the same as VCD's? 320x240 - at which case you could burn to a VCD with your CD writer to play on your DVD player. Maybe mpeg 4 will allow better quality recording to hard drive at full resolution...

jayscheuerle

Jan 6, 2003, 12:46 PM

Originally posted by kcmac
Watching DVD's, slideshows, etc from the computer wireless to a TV anywhere in the house would really rock!

Not enough bandwith in bluetooth for that.

Frobozz

Jan 6, 2003, 12:51 PM

Originally posted by jayscheuerle

Not enough bandwith in bluetooth for that.

I think he meant 802.11g. That has plenty of bandwidth for that.

Frobozz

Jan 6, 2003, 12:58 PM

Originally posted by jayscheuerle

Isn't Tivo's default resolution the same as VCD's? 320x240

Well, NTSC video is 768 x 480, which includes overscan (the areas on the top, bottom, left and right that are considered not-safe for vital information). The interface may be uninterlaced at 320 x 200 (half of the 640 x 400 safe area when interlaced), but when it's over a video signal it is composited on top of a 768 x 480. That's when you can see flicker, etc.

jettredmont

Jan 6, 2003, 12:59 PM

Originally posted by jayscheuerle

I didn't think Airport had enough bandwith to transmit full screen audio/video....

DVD is typically around 6 Mbps (million bits per second, not bytes). 802.11b typically grants around 3-4Mbps after overhead is taken into account. So, no, the bandwidth isn't there on your typical 802.11b connection.

802.11g connections would give around the right bandwidth (8-10 Mbps on current hardware, and that number should go up as hardware matures), but the big stumbling block remains the same as what kept 802.11b from hosting MP3 parties en masse: there is no prioritization or quality of service in WiFi of any currrent flavor. Which means, while you may well get 8Mbps through the pipe, that doesn't mean that in any one second you will get anywhere near 8Mb through. Without massive buffering on both ends, this leads to periodic "skips" and freezes that most home theater fanatics would find abolutey inexcusable.

Also note that a 10baseT ethernet connection, delivering a real rate of 9.8-10Mbps (the "10" is based on the data transmission, not data+overhead transmission, rate), is a far better choice if you can manage it. 100 and giga-bit ethernet of course provide far more than the required bandwidths, and QOS paradigms are quickly maturing there to keep the resulting stream skip and freeze free.

Also, remember that HDTV compressed video using current hardware typically uses about 25Mbps, which is far out of reach of any 802.11* wireless technology today.

jettredmont

Jan 6, 2003, 01:02 PM

Originally posted by chubakka
the 802.11g... 4 to 5 times faster (theoretically than 802.11b)...

But, today, realistically, is ~2 times faster (8-10Mbps instead of 3-4Mbps). Maturing hardware might get it up to 4x faster or maybe beyond, but that's not the reality today.

jettredmont

Jan 6, 2003, 01:07 PM

Originally posted by frankenm
So there will obviously be an 802.11g airport device coming. My question is if that will have a better range than the current version. I know it promises to offer more bandwidth, but what about range?

Current 802.11g devices have slightly better range than 802.11b devices, but not much so. Much more important is the design of the antenna, which directly and dramatically affects range.

jayscheuerle

Jan 6, 2003, 01:10 PM

James.Paul

Jan 6, 2003, 01:18 PM

If apple brought out 802.11g Airport what would that mean to someone with 802.11b. Would I have to get shot of my existing basestation and cards, and buy new, replace just the cards or would a firmware upgrade do the trick. Anyone have any info on this?

jettredmont

Jan 6, 2003, 01:21 PM

Originally posted by jayscheuerle

Then it's different from EyeTV Tivo for Mac, which records at 320 x 240....

Specs (http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/archives/jul02/071602.html)

Correct. But that device is constrained to 320x240 by the USB interface, not by the broadcast resolution or technology available to a set-top Tivo box.

Being a fairly new Tivo owner myself (actually the Dish network's PVR, not sure who builds it), I can say with absolute certainty that the resolution is better than VHS (320x200-ish, interlaced to 640x400-ish).

Also, the figure for broadcast resolution need a footnote. There is no "horizontal" (left to right) resolution in NTSC or PAL. These are analog standards, and so the "horizontal" resolution is precisely how frequently the device samples the signal. However, the 768x480 resolution gives the right aspect ratio on a computer screen, and so that is what is used. The vertical resolution is fixed in both NTSC and PAL, although different television sets will show different numbers of scan lines (which is why you'll rarely see channels broadcast with important information right at the edges of the screen; the majority of sets sold crop as much as 10% of the screen horizontally and vertically!) Also note (finally) that "horizontal lines of resolution" is often used as the unit for vertical (top-to-bottom) resolution, not to be confused with horizontal resolution ...

Pedantic mode off.

oldMac

Jan 6, 2003, 01:27 PM

Originally posted by dongmin

Useful:
4. portable video-phone/video-conferencing device
[/B]

Video phones and video conferencing useful?

Then why is it that countless "picture phones" that have been introduced since the 1980s have never caught on?

Then why is Internet video conferencing, while the technology isn't bad these days a lot more popular than audio calls?

The truth is that the addition of video adds very little to a phone conversation and most people would rather not be seen while they're on the phone. In my opinion, a portable video-phone would be the biggest flop of all.

jayscheuerle

Jan 6, 2003, 01:32 PM

Originally posted by jettredmont

I can say with absolute certainty that the resolution is better than VHS (320x200-ish, interlaced to 640x400-ish).

hmm... I was under the impression that both VHS and DVD's resolution were native NTSC 720x486, but the nature of VHS gave us video noise and grit that is not present in DVDs. I have a rendered movie that I originally had output to VHS and I recently recorded to a VCD (320x240). Playing them synched up, VHS's superior resolution was evident, as were the smooth, grain-free colors of the VCD. The VCD also had superior sound. I'd burn an SVCD if my DVD player could play it. Someday I'll burn a DVD to see it in all it's glory!! (or glaring mistakes I hadn't noticed on VHS)...

macmatt

Jan 6, 2003, 01:50 PM

Originally posted by Kid Red

You are forgetting an iPod type device that could sync with iPhoto and store photos, sync with iMovie and store video, and play all the same on your TV along with plug into your stereo and play tunes synced from iTunes...

i think this sounds very believable... the size of an iPod or a bit bigger (HAS to fit in your pocket i.e. "ultraportable") and with a colour screen covering one whole side for viewing on the device itself. Also allowing you to download right from a digital camera, so it acts as a digital wallet too.

dongmin

Jan 6, 2003, 01:51 PM

Personal Video Recorder -- yes!

Portable Video Player -- why?

To play mp4s on a ipod-sized device would require a lot of technology (bigger screen, mp4 decoder, graphics chip??, bigger battery, bigger hard drive). I don't know what you get out of it in return is worth it.

jettredmont

Jan 6, 2003, 01:58 PM

Originally posted by James.Paul
If apple brought out 802.11g Airport what would that mean to someone with 802.11b. Would I have to get shot of my existing basestation and cards, and buy new, replace just the cards or would a firmware upgrade do the trick. Anyone have any info on this?

Well, 802.11g devices will support 802.11b transmissions, so you can update devices one at a time (although don't expect 11g throughput until both sides of the connection have been uupdated!).

As for how you'll update devices... No knowledge here, but I would guess that replacing the Airport card in previous models would be all that would be required for 802.11g. I don't think a firmware update could do it; sorry! But, I also don't see why the existing 802.11b antennae couldn't be repurposed for 802.11g without modification, so i thin kthe card swap-in would be all that would be required.

As for Airport base stations ... I'm not sure if there is a card to swap out there or not, although that would have been pretty forward-thinking and cool of Apple to do. I suspect the entire base station will have to be replaced with the 802.11g variant.

JohnStrass

Jan 6, 2003, 01:59 PM

Originally posted by Kid Red

You are forgetting an iPod type device that could sync with iPhoto and store photos, sync with iMovie and store video, and play all the same on your TV along with plug into your stereo and play tunes synced from iTunes with visuals on the tv.

Amen. My credit card is ready and I will give my iPod away in a heartbeat for your vPod.
John
who is amazed by iMovie/iDVD and how the snow in Boston is now going up (must be snowing in hell)

superkatalog

Jan 6, 2003, 01:59 PM

if there is a new digital device it sure will be synced with your mac by isync. apple just released the final version of isync. if there is a new device, then somewhere in the isync "code" have to be a hint (graphic or text) to the new device. someone found the new symbols for video and mic in ichat.... i don't think apple will release tomorrow another newer version of isync. get the point?

PretendPCuser

Jan 6, 2003, 02:15 PM

What's going on with the co. that Woz's involved with, Danger? Did they ever release the hiptop? Could there be collaboration of old? Are the dynamic duo meeting in secret underground labs to put something together for us? Stay tuned!! Same Bat time, same bat channel!

Schlomo

Jan 6, 2003, 02:18 PM

...That xfering DVDs wont be an advertised feature, it will be a wink wink nudge nudge kinda thing. Like Itunes, we give you the ability to play back music.. we dont ask where you get it from.. and the version of imovie released at the same time will have a export to vpod option, and it will be up to 3rd parties to make a dvd-vpod utility (which wont take too much work using what is out there)

jettredmont

Jan 6, 2003, 02:29 PM

Originally posted by jayscheuerle

hmm... I was under the impression that both VHS and DVD's resolution were native NTSC 720x486, but the nature of VHS gave us video noise and grit that is not present in DVDs.

Nope. "Standard" VHS (not SVHS) resolution per field is 240 lines vertically "per screen width"*, which means on a 4:3 TV screen, you show around 180 lines of resolution (interlaced, so that you actually end up with 360 lines displayed). SVHS (and Hi8 mini-cassettes) I believe brings VHS up to full NTSC resolution (400 lines per screen width, interlaced).

References:
http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,41045,00.html (4th paragraph down)
http://www.htexplained.com/abridged/Chap%206.htm
Or check the specs on a VCR (this from Toshiba; skip down to the technical specs at the bottom of the page ...): http://www.toshiba.com/tacp/dvd/current/SDV280_detail.html

* Note that "per screen width" seems weaselly, but is necessary when talking about NTSC broadcasts. Because there are a set number of lines before and after each frame dedicated to "overband" information, the NTSC broadcast "frame" is essentially square (though not quite). Once the "visible" portion of the broadcast is sampled down to VHS resolution, (the overband information can not be so compressed without much more intelligence than a late-1970s device would contain), the resulting image does end up quite "square". So, VHS stores 240 lines of information, which is the "overband" data plus 180 lines of visual information per field (2 fields per frame).

I have a rendered movie that I originally had output to VHS and I recently recorded to a VCD (320x240). Playing them synched up, VHS's superior resolution was evident, as were the smooth, grain-free colors of the VCD. The VCD also had superior sound. I'd burn an SVCD if my DVD player could play it. Someday I'll burn a DVD to see it in all it's glory!! (or glaring mistakes I hadn't noticed on VHS)...

Hmmm. Not sure about VCD (MPEG-1), but you have to remember that VHS is interlaced, so 180 lines vertically mean that in a single "frame" you will have 360 distinct lines. This makes it appear more detailed than a non-interlaced 320x240 image, and not any more jumpy (although the theoretical frame rate is lower, frames "blur" together because only half a frame's lines are updated at once).

aaronvegh

Jan 6, 2003, 02:42 PM

Originally posted by PretendPCuser
What's going on with the co. that Woz's involved with, Danger? Did they ever release the hiptop? Could there be collaboration of old? Are the dynamic duo meeting in secret underground labs to put something together for us? Stay tuned!! Same Bat time, same bat channel!

No mon, Woz's company is Wheels of Zeus (WoZ). Danger is a completely different company that produced their hiptop (www.danger.com). Check out their very cool Flash demo. Now available throughout the US.

I'd love to see Apple produce something like this, but with all the DLD features that others have mentioned here...including a funky cool bluetooth earpiece that pops out from the unit for making phone calls. Sweeeeet....

lmalave

Jan 6, 2003, 02:52 PM

Originally posted by PretendPCuser
What's going on with the co. that Woz's involved with, Danger? Did they ever release the hiptop? Could there be collaboration of old? Are the dynamic duo meeting in secret underground labs to put something together for us? Stay tuned!! Same Bat time, same bat channel!

Hahahahaha!! :D

And so it comes full circle....

How's this: Wheels Of Zeus acquired by Apple, Woz joins Apple design team, and MWSF showcases one or more radical new wireless mobile devices that are a result of the collaboration. It could happen!

jayscheuerle

Jan 6, 2003, 02:59 PM

Thanks for the links.

Knowledge rules!

arainert

Jan 6, 2003, 03:32 PM

Does it necessarily have to be "ultra-portable"?

Couldn't it conceivably be portable around the house (or more specifically within range of it's Bluetooth-enabled base-station)?

Why do people want to carry around a tiny video screen with them? I look at the Archos product, as well as a few others, and I think that yes, perhaps there is a market for that but a tiny one. This can't be what Apple is staking their year on.

I still have a hard time understanding how a video-phone would be useful (not to mention successful).

Nonoche

Jan 6, 2003, 03:45 PM

Beyond the Apple apps, what if something like the Playstation 2, Gamecube or that other game box could wirelessly connect to your TV to another room.

Errrr ever heard about this?

http://www.broadq.com/

It's a legit divx player for the PS2, using your Mac or PC as a video server. You can stream the videos over ethernet or even over WiFi.

If that's what Apple is going to announce tomorrow, not only this won't be innovative, but it also won't be cheaper (at least if you already have a PS2, that is ;¬)

kcmac

Jan 6, 2003, 04:49 PM

Thanks. Didn't know that existed. However, it is not what I am talking about...I don't think.

Would like to stream DVD's, games to the TV from the computer or the game box. Don't use DivX. Want to use what is readily available and easy to buy/rent. Is there such a thing?

Biggles

Jan 6, 2003, 04:52 PM

I only read most of the first page of this thread, so my apologies if my idea has already been talked about.

My idea for a perfect digital hub device would be an Apple universal remote control. Now i know that idea sounds pretty sucky right now, but hear me out. With the use of rendevous and airport tech, you could connect every entertainment device in your entire home to a little tablet about the size of a PDA. You could control your computer, your tv, your stereo, etc. with it all at once. Now what else would connect the pieces of your digital life better than that?

Think about it. you could stream tv show from your tv to your computer with your little tablet. If it was a concert, you could convert the format the TV show file is in to something your stereo could read and play it from there, or you could just burn it on your computer...there are so many possibilities

arainert

Jan 6, 2003, 04:56 PM

Biggles,

I'm right with you on that idea - I tried to describe it on page 2 of the thread but your description is more concise.

I've been dreaming of a device like that for months.

P-Worm

Jan 6, 2003, 05:34 PM

I can't believe that No one here wants a device that would play movies. I know that I can't convince you that you want one (Only Steve can do that :D ), but I think you guys are missing the point. Would this be meant for watching an entire movie? No, laptops are for that. I've always wanted something like this so that I could show my friends how a movie I've been editing is going WITHOUT A COMPUTER. This would rock.

Some Hot Chick:"So P-Worm, how is the movie/editing/special effects coming?"

Me:"Why don't you see for yourself" <Pulls out new iPod>

Some Hot Chick:"Wow, that is so cool and sexy! I wish I was you! Can I make out with you?"

Now we all no that this is EXACTLY how it would turn out right?

P-Worm

Jays

Jan 6, 2003, 05:45 PM

pyrotoaster

Jan 6, 2003, 05:53 PM

Has anyone considered the possibility that we're looking at an iNewton, here?

The Newton truthfully was tablet meets PDA, unfortunately it was marketed as a PDA, and wasn't advanced enough to even be considered a tablet. (Although the OS was great)

We could just be looking at the next incarnation of the Newton.
Think about the possbilities:
1. Firewire (maybe even a backwards-compatable Firewire 2)
2. 802.11g
3. Bluetooth
4. Inkwell (although Newton 2.0's handwriting system was pretty darn good)
5. Full color screen
6. Big HD
7. Long battery life (prolonged by...)
8. Fast processor with low battery consumption (it could be a new G3)
9. And who knows what else.

This would be a totally wireless device, that could easily connect to your Mac via Firewire for large data transfers (or people who don't have bluetooth).
What's better, is that everything there is also PC compatable, making it a product capable of introducing Wintel users to Apple, and hopefully getting them to switch.

All it needs now is a name like "Newton3" or "iNewt," although the latter sounds like an amphibian. :p

mcthomas-2@ou.e

Jan 6, 2003, 06:06 PM

i have read that the p-800 will be shipped tomorrow in england but am un aware if that has anything to do with mwsf. Although i really hope so.................................. www.mob-phone.com/acatalog/buy_p800_61.html

bentmywookie

Jan 6, 2003, 06:14 PM

Originally posted by pyrotoaster
Has anyone considered the possibility that we're looking at an iNewton, here?

The Newton truthfully was tablet meets PDA, unfortunately it was marketed as a PDA, and wasn't advanced enough to even be considered a tablet. (Although the OS was great)

We could just be looking at the next incarnation of the Newton.
Think about the possbilities:
1. Firewire (maybe even a backwards-compatable Firewire 2)
2. 802.11g
3. Bluetooth
4. Inkwell (although Newton 2.0's handwriting system was pretty darn good)
5. Full color screen
6. Big HD
7. Long battery life (prolonged by...)
8. Fast processor with low battery consumption (it could be a new G3)
9. And who knows what else.

This would be a totally wireless device, that could easily connect to your Mac via Firewire for large data transfers (or people who don't have bluetooth).
What's better, is that everything there is also PC compatable, making it a product capable of introducing Wintel users to Apple, and hopefully getting them to switch.

All it needs now is a name like "Newton3" or "iNewt," although the latter sounds like an amphibian. :p

I would have to say that this is pretty much exactly what I am hoping for tomorrow. Even better would be an iNewton, iTablet, whatever that is the size of a 12" iBook, but the screen is a detachable tablet (not that I think it will happen).

I agree that a video iPod would have some uses, but overall, I think putting a video screen on the iPod would be worthless for most users, and like someone else mentioned, it would just be a cool factor that wouldn't sell well.

I personally don't understand why some people don't see how an iTablet (if reasonably light with a decent screen) could be useful. To me, the tablet PC is the evolution of the notebook, and once they get a little more lighter and thinner, are outfitted with bluetooth and WiFi, have a screen the size of a regular notebook, and are priced right (imo $1000-$1500) - they should fly.

If apple releases such a product, I think they will really be ahead of the game, because the current MS Tablet PC offerings are not that attractive yet.

sprescott1974

Jan 6, 2003, 06:31 PM

I agree that this would be a very cool device. i wonder how much it would cost though.

One thing I wish everyone would remember though is that bluetooth absolutely sucks for file transer. It is great for syncing PIM info, and is perfect for controlling lings like a phone headset, but as far as streaming audio from your computer to your PowerPod, Airport is a much better solution and a feasible one if you ask me. Bluetooth is pretty slow and pretty unreliable. I've had no problem syncing with my T68i, but have i been able to get contact pictures from my computer to my phone? the answer is no.

Anyway, whatever they come out with tomorrow if I can use it to listen to music and do other things on it I am buying. Otherwise I'm getting a 10 gig iPod because IMHO it is damn near perfect (recording and radio would be nice additiond).

pyrotoaster

Jan 6, 2003, 06:43 PM

Originally posted by sprescott1974

I agree that this would be a very cool device. i wonder how much it would cost though.

That's what it comes down to, isn't it...

Price for a device like this would be tricky and crucial, but it obviously would need a minimum of $300 between it and the cheapest iBook.
Perhaps a pricing tier, based on either HD, RAM, Processor speed, or all of the above, would be practical.
Remember, this iNewton isn't a large device, it can't be priced too close to the iBook, because it's not meant to compete with it.

iwantanewmac

Jan 6, 2003, 07:06 PM

Just keep an eye on TIME magazine.
They'll know.

pyrotoaster

Jan 6, 2003, 07:09 PM

I've seen the cover of this week's Time.
It's about North Korea.

iBot

Jan 6, 2003, 09:07 PM

Judging from the news.com story, the "digital hub" (iHub?) device sounds a lot like the Tivo-style device predicted on the MacOSRumors site.

So if it is a digital hub (low-profile brushed-metal casing, maybe?) of some sort that connects your Mac/ipod/digital camera to your TV/cable box/DVD player/stereo system via the new, faster Airport and firewire(2?), it would allow you to record from TV to your hard drive, probably with MPEG-4 compression. It would allow you to connect your stereo system to your computer or ipod, and transfer multimedia files back and forth at high speed. It might also feature, in partnership with film distribution companies and a high-speed Internet connection, a video-on-demand service (similar to the audio books arrangement that iTunes features).

Add a Newton-like remote control device with Inkwell handwriting recognition, which acts as a wireless terminal connected to the whole A/V network via Airport, and you'd have a pretty nifty killer app. Especially if the Newton-like thing has a high-rez color display that enables you to access and manipulate all your computer files, applications and the Internet from anywhere in inside the range of your Airport network.

Or maybe it'll just be a crappy mobile phone.

pyrotoaster

Jan 6, 2003, 10:24 PM

MOSR is full of BS, people.

Do you really think Apple is going to release a brushed metal TiVo box?!
It makes the iPhone seem plausible (my personal opinion, of course). :rolleyes:

SPG

Jan 7, 2003, 11:43 PM

Originally posted by Frobozz

Well, NTSC video is 768 x 480, which includes overscan (the areas on the top, bottom, left and right that are considered not-safe for vital information). The interface may be uninterlaced at 320 x 200 (half of the 640 x 400 safe area when interlaced), but when it's over a video signal it is composited on top of a 768 x 480. That's when you can see flicker, etc.

I believe it is 720x486 NTSC, 720x480 NTSC DV, while PAL runs about 500 something vertically (I can't remember the PAL specs off the top of my head since I'm always working NTSC).
You're missing the point of interlacing and doing a bit of fuzzy math in the process. On an interlaced picture the two fields are essentialy displayed at the same time due to the amount of time the phosphors in the tube stay active.