MacWorld Expo!

[MacRumors]

The keynote is complete. More updates later.

Summary at this page. (http://www.macrumors.com/mwsf03.html) Or visit Apple.com (http://www.apple.com)

[Ramsos]

You guys made me a true believer in this site after your powerbook rumor came true. And everyone thought that the imac was the main event. Mac rumors rule.

[irmongoose]

Using Safari... pretty good. Haven't looked at everything yet. All I have to say is that this was a great Macworld, and I LOVE APPLE!!!!!!

:D :D




irmongoose

[Hemingray]

Well I must say I was pleasantly surprised! :) Looks like I'll be getting a 12" PowerBook instead of waiting for a G4 iBook. Very very cool!

The only thing that really made it difficult for me was the keynote stream! My gosh, I don't think I had one single minute of uninterrupted audio and video. It was so extremely choppy, I got like maybe 3 seconds of straight audio at a time and about 1 video frame every 5 minutes. It was bad. (And I'm on DSL...)

Oh well, thank goodness for live coverage by MR and MacNN, eh? :D

[vniow]

MACRUMORS OWNS!!

[Durandal7]

My thanks to arn and blakespot:
to arn for being the only one to predict 12" and 17" PBs
to blakespot for his speedy live coverage of the keynote

[pilotgi]

Apple website says Safari is even faster than Chimera.
167Mhz bus on the 17" powerbook.

What's the deal with iTunes3? I already have iTunes 3.

[Over Achiever]

I'm breathless.

After being sad that I didn't buy my powerbook before the beginning of the year, I must say I'm estatic about the 17.1" Powerbook. And aluminum! And firewire800! And bluetooth! And airport extreme! And DDR memory! And slightly faster graphics card. And the no paint! And the airport antennae in the screen!

And the backlight keyboard took my breath away.

...

*Can't breathe*

PS. Go arn and Macrumors. Wow, two months seemed too soon, but arn was confident. Go Macrumors. Love the site. :D

[pilotgi]

I bet in a couple of months, the 15" TiBook will drop in price.

About the same time as the upgrades to the iMac.

DDR ram on the iMac anyone?

[lmalave]

All in all a great Macworld. I always said that notebooks are where Apple is still competitive with Wintel Machines. I can't believe Apple's biggest laptop - 17 freakin' inches - still only weighs 6.8 lbs. And at $1999 for the Superdrive 12.1" iBook, Apple is SO far ahead of the competition (Sony, Dell, Fujitsu) in the ultraportable laptop arena.

Still hoping for a cool new device, but I can't blame Apple for sticking to its bread and butter during this rough period. Until the 970 comes along, Apple can expect PowerMac sales to tank, so hopefully these notebooks will keep revenues and profits afloat.

Airport extreme is very cool - the base station is actually a great deal at $200 for businesses that are security conscious (Airport is actually the cheapest base sation that supports advanced 801.x security). I had hoped for a combined Bluetooth/Airport card though - I guess I'm still stuck with a USB dongle.

All the new apps look great too. Go, apple!

I would expect that we'll see more updates in the coming months at special press events, since there's some updates that HAVE to happen (7457 in PowerMacs and PowerBooks, Bluetooth in iPods, etc.)

[wesmac]

One of the best keynotes ever! I'm loving Safari; I want the Keynote app ($99 and a lot better than PowerPoint!), I'm drooling over the 17" Powerbook (Airbook?)

Congrats to the Macrumors team for getting the Powerbooks right! This is the only site that had it.

[rainman::|:|]

I really do hope safari gets faster with future updates. But it's quite nice now, and i've been praying for an Apple browser for a long time. As for the new powerbooks... WOW. i want that keyboard. now i have to find a way to raise $3,200. That's really not a bad price, considering. Wonder if they'll adjust other prices accordingly...

iLife... wow. I'm going to get a DVD burner ASAP, i never saw the point but i'll find a reason to use it, those menus were phoenominal. Never seen anything like it.

I love that they got Goldblum back for the ads. Also loved the "wonderful life" reoccuring theme, especially the new version at the end.

The man really knows how to present.

Hope everyone else is happy, i really don't want to hear "but there's no tablet"... blah...

:) :) :)
pnw

[bentmywookie]

At first, the thought of a 17" powerbook sounded terrible, but now I think I see where apple is going with it.

Like Steve said, it is the year of the notebook, and apple clearly is right on the money. The 17" powerbook is THE desktop replacement. The days of laptops lagging behind desktops are pretty much over and apple saw this. Now people can just buy a 17" powerbook as their primary computer - it can be easily moved around the house, it's just as good as an iMac and close enough to a powermac, and in case you ever need to move or travel, it easily comes right with you.

Basically, my point is that the "desktops" of old are going to go away (well, at least for the average home and business user) - apple saw it first - and pretty soon all desktops of the future will basically be laptop variations. Now I am in love with the 17" powerbook.

And even though it's not the tablet that I wanted, I can't wait to get my new powerbook 12"!

(Now I feel bad for losing the faith a little when the unremarkable DP 1.25 G4s came out - Never again will I lose faith!)

[fred_lj]

This site is incredible -- how'd ya do it? The only site in years besides ThinkSecret to get a scoop, which they failed miserably at this year.

Macrumors, I salute you!

(now I'm off to think how I can save up three grand, or at least get a good line of credit)

What do you guys think about the future of the G4 in the powerbooks? Will it lag along like the G3 did before the G4 finally came to them (i.e., will it be a year or two before the 970 or some IBM breed of it comes to the powerbook as a result of this new product announcement).

[nickmcghie]

uhhhh... no tabbed browsing???? wtf were they thinking??? i'm gonna stick with chimera until they add tabbed browsing

[rainman::|:|]

Originally posted by nickmcghie
uhhhh... no tabbed browsing???? wtf were they thinking??? i'm gonna stick with chimera until they add tabbed browsing

Oh give it up... Apple's never made a web browser before, and it's amazingly well-featured, simple, and compatible. Not *that* many people use tabbed browsing, i'm happy to get it now and see tabbed browsing come in an update, rather than the whole thing be delayed until they could get THAT mess sorted out...

IE and Netscape are officially off my dock... yay!

:)
pnw

[TheT]

Good stuff... but the prices in Europe again... considering that 1 Euro is actually worth more than 1$, 4.058,84 Euro for the 17 inch PB seems a bit off...:(

But still, great stuff! I'm writing this with Safari :)

<edit>these forums still don't support the Euro-symbol... :D </edit>

[jaykk]

Arn, how did u pull this one off? Great Job. One of the best Mac World. Safari is great..but after using tabbed browsing, its hard to get use to no-tabbed browser :) Oh well, its beta

[yosoyjay]

Most people I know that own Macs bought notebooks because they are the best, but wouldn't touch a desktop with a 10 foot pole. Also, market trends indicate that increasingly people are buying notebooks as a replacement for their desktops and don't mind occasionally lugging around a bigger/heavier box. That being said I think the decision to introduce more notebooks was the best thing Apple could have done. 802.11g, Bluetooth, Firewire2 wow, I'm speechless.

I'm using Safari now and it starts up much faster than Chimera. It does load pages a bit faster. I didn't even compare it to IE because it just sucks. The one thing that I've noticed that I don't like is the lack of tabbed browsing. I don't use it that often, but it is very handy sometimes.

[nickmcghie]

Originally posted by paulwhannel


Oh give it up... Apple's never made a web browser before, and it's amazingly well-featured, simple, and compatible. Not *that* many people use tabbed browsing, i'm happy to get it now and see tabbed browsing come in an update, rather than the whole thing be delayed until they could get THAT mess sorted out...

IE and Netscape are officially off my dock... yay!

:)
pnw


yea i guess you're right, it IS an amazing first step, the ONLY thing i can see that is missing is tabbed browsing... its just that i'm a heavy user of tabbed browsing, so i was kinda disappointed that safari doesn't support it.. but hopefully that will be added in a future update, so i'm gonna be optimistic.. until then, i will still stick with chimera for most of the time

great macworld, by the way! =)

[Fender2112]

I was really hoping to see one of those universal products like I see advertied on the SciFi Channel. The one that connects anything to everything. The new PowerBook is almost there. All it needs is a recepticle so I can plug in my mini fridge.:D

I don't have much need for a laptop, so I look forward to the next lineup of desk tops and monitors. If they can put a 1 GHz G4 in a PowerBook, I assume the next iMac will have that much, possibly a 1.25. This is what I'm holding out for. I would like to do a G4 tower if the monitor prices come down. Hopefully we'll something in the coming months.

I have not yet migrated to OS X. My Mac close will only support 9.1. The new compliment of iapps has me really excited. I love the way Apple has integrated the iapps into one product - iLife. Final Cut Express also has me a bit giddy.

I also want to thank the folks at MacRumors- staff and members. This is a great site. I don't post much, but I read a lot. Keep up the good work.

[chicagdan]

Desktops are not disappearing, they're just a low margin business and Apple can't compete in processor speed. The speed gap isn't as substantial with laptops and the margins are good, so Apple is going all out this year while they twiddle their thumbs, waiting for IBM to produce Power4s in sufficient volume to revive the PowerMac line.

I'm very happy to see someone take on the true evil beast of the M$ empire -- Power Point. As a professional speechwriter, PP is the bane of my existence. I hope Keynote (I even love the name, evocative of speech, not technology) kicks its ass. Safari is nice too.

Having said all this, I was all ready to buy that TiVO/digital movie player today. Oh well, maybe soon.

[wdlove]

Truly a great Keynote, surpassed all expectations! Steve Jobs was in his element, spokeman extraordinaire!

I too congratulate Mac Forum on the accuracy of their predictions, result of hard work.

Steve had one amazing announcement after the other!

[Mudbug]

I'm using Safari now and it is ROCKING along. Makes IE look like a bad beta version of old software.

Oh, and the rest of that stuff is just too cool for school. It's like the PB's decided to have children, and to join the big brother program at the same time.

Go Arn - you are the master of the master.

[drastik]

w0000000000T!
Go Arn, its your biirthday...

Great call on the Powerbooks. As someone put it yesterday, this is the GOD of all rumor sites. Of course most of us knew that already.

Wow. I'm dumbstruck over this Macworld. Fantastic. An ultra portable, with full drives built in, for 1799! Thats freaking incredible. I have a great desire for one of these. Oneday it will be mine. OF course, my pismos value just went to hell, but I don't care.

I love Apple. We asked, they delivered more than we asked for. the 17in is a true desktop replacement for a lot of professional uses.

Oh, man, I'm so excited I gotta go pee.

[Moxiemike]

Originally posted by pilotgi
I bet in a couple of months, the 15" TiBook will drop in price.

About the same time as the upgrades to the iMac.

DDR ram on the iMac anyone?

already dropped. $200 bucks.

m,

[banjoboy1979]

wanna buy a 14" ibook?

:)

more to the point, does anyone know where i could do this legally other than ebay? ebay makes me nervous...and i don't have a record...

[MarkMc]

According to a blurb on Apple's Rendevouz website:
===============
TiVo
?TiVo?s upcoming premium service package will use Rendezvous technology to automatically discover Macintosh computers within the home network and determine which services they provide, allowing customers to listen to their shared music or view their shared photos on their TV,? said Jim Barton, Co-founder and CTO for TiVo. ?We are excited about working with Apple on other ways Rendezvous can help TiVo Series2 DVRs connect to a Mac to deliver future services.?

================

Was this covered/demoed during the keynote? this sounds pretty cool, can't wait to see it in person.

[Apple][Forever]

WOW.

Just WOW.

The 17" PowerBook is one of the coolest computing... anythings I have ever seen.

Safari seems good so far. It's having a little bit of font issues but that's about it.

Page scrolling in Safari is about as fast as Netscape was in 8.6... impressive. Rendering is fast too.

The new iApps look nice, and so does Keynote. I have 2 questions, though:

1) Is the new 12" PB basically a silver-colored iBook with a slot loader? That's what it looks like in the pics. (in terms of the exterior, that is.)

2) Is Apple ready to give the finger to MS? First, a web browser, then a major component of Office (Keynote -> Powerpoint). Will we see a word processor and spreadsheet next? I can't see Apple making ONLY a presentation program.

Looks like they're picking a fight to me.

[firestarter]

No DVI
No PCMCIA
Dumb 128MB built in limits it to 640MB
No cache

WTF were they thinking? I don't want to lug the 17 or 15 inch monsters around, but I wanted a SERIOUS LAPTOP. What difference will the 887MHz with no cache vs the 800MHz with cache on the iBook make? The iBook can be hacked to get external VGA video, at which point there's very little difference.

Very disappointed!!!

[agreenster]

And I thought it wasnt possible to improve on the DESIGN of the TiBook.

I thought wrong!

The keyboard will be a HUGE hit.

[elgruga]

Originally posted by paulwhannel




IE and Netscape are officially off my dock... yay!

:)
pnw

Amen to that! Safari is really quite good - been surfing for about 90 minutes - no bugs as yet!

Great day fro Apple!

And Macrumors....well, take a bow, gents!

[MacFocus]

Thanks to Arn & all the others at Macrumors. You guys run a great forum. To me you are the number 1 rumor (and sometimes news) site. Keep up the good work.

What a show this was... There's only one problem, where do I get the money for a 17" powerbook??? The iApps look great en so does Final Cut Express, it's exactly what I wanted. I've downloaded Safari and it works great so far. And it starts much quicker than IE.

[Doctor Q]

Good work MacRumors! And good work Steve Jobs. What a great presenter he is. He even got applause for the old "A" post office story.

When talking about the 17" PowerBook, he said something like "It's the most advanced product made on the planet." I notice that he didn't say which planet.

The "airplane passenger" TV ad for the PowerBooks is truly wonderful.

Now, the part that worries me: If iLife is free, Safari is free, Final Cut Express and Keynote are cheap, and there was no announcement of new iMacs, new Power Macs, new displays, new Apple Store locations, etc., then how is Apple going to keep the money flowing in? Can they really rely on the two PowerBooks as the only addition to their income stream? They'd have to sell an awful lot of Burton snowboarding jackets otherwise.

P.S. Steve said he checked out some rumor sites. I can't imagine he didn't include this one. So Hi, Steve!

[Timothy]

Great show, Apple...No complaints.

However...

The PDA crowd will continue to hang tough with the hope that SJ and Apple come to their senses and realize that those of us committed to the Mac Platform still need an ultra-portable computing solution.

[chicagdan]

Looks like they're picking a fight to me.

They're picking a very smart fight. Apple has analyzed the Office Suite and gone after the most vulnerable components first -- Entourage (with iCal, Address Book and Mail), now Power Point with Keynote.

This way they can take baby steps ... if the Mac community becomes comfortable with some non-MS parts of the Office suite, they can slowly introduce the other parts without starting a full-blown war with a suite program. Later they might want to try to reinvent the spreadsheet. And if that takes, the final, frontal assault on Word.

[tjwett]

damn, it's been a while since i've been here! These are cool but one thing, NO L3 CACHE ON THE 12"??? this kind of puts it in the same boat as the Rev B TiBooks, aside from the sort-of "DDR". the lack of L3 is what made the Rev Bs such slugs with audio, eventually being the reason i sold mine. the 12" would be so perfect for my uses. hopefully this detail will not be a letdown. overall, the price, form, and everything else make it a winner in my opinion. can't wait to see one up close. it has a VERY similar layout to the iBook regarding placement of ports, optical drive, etc. lets hope it's not just a paintjob. and lets hope the new alluminum casing will be stronger than the Tofu-based Titanium Substitute they used for the TiBooks.

[barkmonster]

The only thing that really made it difficult for me was the keynote stream! My gosh, I don't think I had one single minute of uninterrupted audio and video. It was so extremely choppy, I got like maybe 3 seconds of straight audio at a time and about 1 video frame every 5 minutes. It was bad. (And I'm on DSL...)

Same here, I'm on a 512K cablemodem :(

The keynote went well though, I was disappointed the protools announcement was more an exercise in name dropping than a presentation of new features or performance enhancements like the graphics or gaming demos usually are. It's still good to know a definate release date now.

I love the new browser, shame my mac's too slow to even waste the money on jaguar so I can try it. The reasons for buying a more recent mac so I'm not left in the cold just keep piling up and the lack of funds just keeps knocking it down again!

I was really impressed with the integration of the iApps now, I think OS 9 being dead is a pain but missing out on so many NEW things by staying with OS 9 is really starting to make OS 9 seem like windows 95 or something these days.

[Rocketman]

Originally posted by Ramsos
You guys made me a true believer in this site after your powerbook rumor came true. And everyone thought that the imac was the main event. Mac rumors rule.

Agreed.

I have been posting here for the better part of a year that a Powerbook version for videographers was needed and soon to arrive. The 17 inch display closely approximates the HDTV format I predicted and the Firewire 800 port implements the raid everywhere strategy. It is about 1/3 the bandwidth of Fiberchannel which you can buy for about $3000.

The new "low end" Powerbook offers everything a student or highly mobile professional could hope for including either CDRW or DVD-R as well as a sensational plus in Airport Extreme. Plus properly runs OSX in full implementation.

So can we get updates to Airport cards that utilize some of the additional bandwidth of AE?

The whole chip speed discussions seems to have been silenced by "extreme" revelations everywhere else. Thank goodness.

Rocketman


http://www.v-serv.com/-upload/avatar.jpg

[voicegy]

FINALLY...two built in antennas on the PowerBook(s).

That single improvement in itself makes the 17" PowerBook the absolute RULER of all portable machines.

Upbeat, straightforward, surprising and clean Keynote Speech...one of the best yet, and, boy, did we all need it!

And, of course, this SITE ROCKS!!

[vniow]

Originally posted by MarkMc
According to a blurb on Apple's Rendevouz website:
===============
TiVo
?TiVo?s upcoming premium service package will use Rendezvous technology to automatically discover Macintosh computers within the home network and determine which services they provide, allowing customers to listen to their shared music or view their shared photos on their TV,? said Jim Barton, Co-founder and CTO for TiVo. ?We are excited about working with Apple on other ways Rendezvous can help TiVo Series2 DVRs connect to a Mac to deliver future services.?

================

Was this covered/demoed during the keynote? this sounds pretty cool, can't wait to see it in person.


Confirmed.

Nice catch. Wonder if ReplayTV will support it also?

[railthinner]

safari is fantastic. It is fast and clean.

I've had plans to get the 867 tibook, now they've go tme ready to shell out an additional grand. The 17" powerbook is stunning. A big grin came across my face as I read up on it.

The only thing that really shocks me at this point is that the monitor line hasn't been updated. What's the deal? I've got a dual 867 with a beige 17" monitor waiting to be replaced with a new 19" widescreen Apple display.

[MacsRgr8]

Yes!
Steve made my day with Safari (kick IE), and a great app: Keynote (kick PowerPoint).
Ans so it is true:
The new Mac's after 01-01-2003 can only boot into X. Maybe that's the reason the current iBooks and TiBooks will still be able to sell.
And congrats to Arn... super call, those "AlBooks"

[lmalave]

Originally posted by Timothy
Great show, Apple...No complaints.

However...

The PDA crowd will continue to hang tough with the hope that SJ and Apple come to their senses and realize that those of us committed to the Mac Platform still need an ultra-portable computing solution.

Well, Apple is committed to letting you sync to your SonyEricsson P800 to your Mac. (Basically a PDA, and you can install 3rd party Java apps). I don't think the iPhone or iPDA is going to happen. If it was going to it would've hapend at this Macworld. In retrospect Apple is making the right choice. The PDA is dead, dead, dead as a standalone device, and SonyEricsson, Nokia, etc. are making great phones with all the PDA functionality you could ever want (the P800 even has a stylus/touchscreen interface), so why not focus on integration instead of trying to make everything in-house? That's what got Apple into trouble before, after all....

[robodweeb]

Originally posted by firestarter
No cache

I was all ready to go to apple.com to buy one until I saw this and checked it out. No way will I buy one with only a Level 2 cache and no Level 3 ... the performance hit will be significant ...

so close ... <sigh>

[chicagdan]

If iLife is free, Safari is free, Final Cut Express and Keynote are cheap, and there was no announcement of new iMacs, new Power Macs, new displays, new Apple Store locations, etc., then how is Apple going to keep the money flowing in?

If this were a stockholders meeting instead of a revival for true believers, Jobs would have been asked that question. How indeed. Apple has roughly 9 months of tap dancing to do until the Power-4 is ready in sufficient quantities. The 12 inch PB is great, but it will cannibalize iBook sales. The 17" PB is incredible ... but it is expensive and a product better suited to the desktop ... therefore it will compete with the 17 inch iMac.

The Merrill Lynch sell rating on Apple is harsh, but it's not entirely out of line. 2003 is going to be a difficult year for Apple ... even though I'm extremely optimistic about 2004 and beyond.

[LethalWolfe]

1. I've got broadband thru ComCast and the keynote was near flawless for me.

2. FCE is what Apple's been missing, more than iMovie, less that FCP, perfect for the advanced home user/hobbiest.

3. iLife isn't free. iDVD costs $$$, but it's well worth the $$$ IMO. iLife will be installed on my G4 on Jan 25th. :)

4. I wish I didn't just get laid off 'cause I really want a PB. :( Oh well. :)


Lethal

[e-coli]

Best Macworld in history. Nothing could top it.

The new products are sweet. I love the way apple is appealing to the open source community. I'm glad someone finally put a bullet in PowerPoint. Take that Microsoft. And good riddance to IE. It was buggy and terrible.

[drastik]

Originally posted by firestarter
No DVI
No PCMCIA
Dumb 128MB built in limits it to 640MB
No cache

WTF were they thinking? I don't want to lug the 17 or 15 inch monsters around, but I wanted a SERIOUS LAPTOP. What difference will the 887MHz with no cache vs the 800MHz with cache on the iBook make? The iBook can be hacked to get external VGA video, at which point there's very little difference.

Very disappointed!!!

You don't seem to get the idea of an ultra-portable. Many business users need only the most basic funtions. What they need is small and light an durable. As far as this class of notebooks goes, this one is quicker, smaller, lighter and cheaper than the competition (sony, mainly.) People drop thousands on these things because they are tiny, not for DVI out and PMCIA cards. What do you need a card lot for on the thing. It has built in ethernet and modem, airport for wireless, bluetooth built in. all the ocnnections you could want. What do you need a card for?

[Mr.Hey]

Originally posted by Hemingray
The only thing that really made it difficult for me was the keynote stream! My gosh, I don't think I had one single minute of uninterrupted audio and video. It was so extremely choppy, I got like maybe 3 seconds of straight audio at a time and about 1 video frame every 5 minutes. It was bad. (And I'm on DSL...)

Funny.......I could resize the window with out audio-n-video being cut-off. I would grab the window and move it around my entire desktop and not a single frame drop.

[zarathustra]

Originally posted by firestarter
No DVI
No PCMCIA
Dumb 128MB built in limits it to 640MB
No cache

WTF were they thinking? I don't want to lug the 17 or 15 inch monsters around, but I wanted a SERIOUS LAPTOP. What difference will the 887MHz with no cache vs the 800MHz with cache on the iBook make? The iBook can be hacked to get external VGA video, at which point there's very little difference.

Very disappointed!!!

The 12" PowerBook is a serious laptop. I think you need to take a deep breath, relax and exhale. Repeat as necessary. $1799 for all this (http://www.apple.com/powerbook/specs.html) , is not bad.

[mymemory]

17"!!! that IS a good deal, no s*itt***y Ti stuff. 17" all the way, that was a serious design.

Then the new iBook nice.

The Key Note:D :D :D so funny, Now I can put my hands on presentations the way I want.

The rest... cheap and usable.

Sad that I can not use that sky jacket in Venezuela:(

Now I have to sell all my stuff to get that 17" powerbook. :rolleyes:

[NicoMan]

Well, I am quite speechless about the accuracy of the rumors coming from this site. Way to go arn!!! Keep that source nice and warm for the next annoucements...
As for the products, I am soooo fuming over this new subnotebook: I bought my iBook 12"/800/combo at Apple Expo UK in November thinking 'ok they have just updated their laptop line so I should be safe with this iBook for a while' and
BANG come those annoucements! I could have done with a G4 processor(I guess)... aaaaargh (I couldn't care less about the difference in prices...).
As for the rest, Safari is quite cool, even though it is not as good as Chimera yet IMHO (tabbed browsing will hopefully come later, but i don't really mind not using tabs) and I really think the Apple users need a sort of common browser as opposed to dozens of different ones. It is so confusing for banking sites to have to try and support (on the mac) IE, Netscape, Mozilla, Chimera, Omniweb, Opera, etc... I hope that in a few months (when we get a gold version), Safari will be the de-facto standard for web browsing on the mac, and that browsing on it will be as good (better??) an experience as it is on IE on PeeCees...
The 17" Powerbook... I feel like Homer Simpson drooling over a burger. I was planning on shipping an updated (I hoped for it anyway) top end iMac to complement my iBook, but i am not so sure anymore...(167MHz bus, DDR333 RAM on that beast ??)
Thank you SJ for an eventful Keynote.

I'll stop now I need to go get something to eat (It is 20:40pm here).

Go MacRumors Go !!

NicoMan

[firestarter]

Originally posted by zarathustra


The 12" PowerBook is a serious laptop. I think you need to take a deep breath, relax and exhale. Repeat as necessary. $1799 for all this (http://www.apple.com/powerbook/specs.html) , is not bad.

Not bad??

$500 for a new case and Bluetooth, compared to the 12 inch iBook?

The 12inch could be so much more. This does not compete with PC ultraportables. Again Apple misses the point on expandability.

This is a POWERBOOK. DVI, big memory and PCMCIA is missing!!!

[MOM]

Originally posted by chicagdan


They're picking a very smart fight. Apple has analyzed the Office Suite and gone after the most vulnerable components first -- Entourage (with iCal, Address Book and Mail), now Power Point with Keynote.

This way they can take baby steps ... if the Mac community becomes comfortable with some non-MS parts of the Office suite, they can slowly introduce the other parts without starting a full-blown war with a suite program. Later they might want to try to reinvent the spreadsheet. And if that takes, the final, frontal assault on Word.

I agree completely! The big battle is coming. I read rumors that the new Appleworks may use XML, which is what keynote uses. I also believe MS is heading that way, which means we may get true compatibility between these apps in the future and then I can give MS the boot.
Did anyone notice how often Steve mentioned business. I think this is the next step in the push into the business world (Xserve, OSX, iMacs with larger screens, now Quickbooks (Sucks, but hey)).

BTW, Apple has done a great job of keeping our minds off the gigaherz gap. We don't expect portables to be as fast as desktops. This will by them a few more months of good press before we can get the new chips.

I'm happy, now the question is 12", 15" or 17"-hmm

[ThorPrime]

Works great except for Downloading.

Can't resume from a cache or clear only one DL from the list. If you clear it clears everything. Other than that.

Awsome&Go Apple

[jgracia]

What do you guys think about steve mention he read site rumors?

[macktheknife]

Originally posted by chicagdan


If this were a stockholders meeting instead of a revival for true believers, Jobs would have been asked that question. How indeed. Apple has roughly 9 months of tap dancing to do until the Power-4 is ready in sufficient quantities. The 12 inch PB is great, but it will cannibalize iBook sales. The 17" PB is incredible ... but it is expensive and a product better suited to the desktop ... therefore it will compete with the 17 inch iMac.

The Merrill Lynch sell rating on Apple is harsh, but it's not entirely out of line. 2003 is going to be a difficult year for Apple ... even though I'm extremely optimistic about 2004 and beyond.

100% agreed. Those rumors about the Power 4 not making its way to consumers until 2004 (found here (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2002/11/20021124221123.shtml)) appears to be true. If this is indeed the case, then 2003 will look like another slow year for Apple's sales. The 17 inch and 12 inch PowerBooks are nice, but if you already bought a PowerBook in the past year, you are still probably paying down that $2k or $3k bill. I think those new PowerBooks will help sales but not by much.

Prousers are rightly dissatisfied with the price/performance ratio of the G4 PowerMacs--it's far too expensive for the performance you're getting. I use both Macs and PCs, and let me tell you that a $1k 2 GHz Wintel box is *very* fast. As I always believed, if Apple expects us to pay a premium for advanced software (like OS X), shouldn't we in return expect Apple to charge lower prices for slower hardware? The Mhz Myth is indeed a myth in some ways, but it cannot be denied that Wintel boxes are cheaper and much, much faster.

In any case, I'm going to keep paying down the $1,120 I have left on my 1 year-old 550 Mhz TiBook. Hopefully in a year from now when I start looking for a new laptop, a Power-4 PowerBook will be ready. :)

[mangoman]

Originally posted by Timothy
Great show, Apple...No complaints.

However...

The PDA crowd will continue to hang tough with the hope that SJ and Apple come to their senses and realize that those of us committed to the Mac Platform still need an ultra-portable computing solution.

Sigh...good show today, but I'm one of those ultra-portable freaks.

BooHoo. BooHooHooHooHoo.

[Head Wound]

Originally posted by NicoMan
Well, I am quite speechless about the accuracy of the rumors coming from this site. Way to go [B]arn!!!

I agree! In the end MacRumors has shown itself to be the true mac rumors site! Thorough and inclusive, but not trumpeting rumors as facts either. Good instincts Id say!

As for the rest, Safari is quite cool, even though it is not as good as Chimera yet IMHO (tabbed browsing will hopefully come later, but i don't really mind not using tabs) and I really think the Apple users need a sort of common browser as opposed to dozens of different ones. It is so confusing for banking sites to have to try and support (on the mac) IE, Netscape, Mozilla, Chimera, Omniweb, Opera, etc... I hope that in a few months (when we get a gold version), Safari will be the de-facto standard for web browsing on the mac, and that browsing on it will be as good (better??) an experience as it is on IE on PeeCees...

Well, I mostly agree with this, but I feel much more strongly that its not as good as Chimera. In fact, Id go so far as to say 'What the hell was Jobs thinking???'

Ive downloaded Safari. Its got to good things going for it: a 3 mb download :eek: and a pretty darn quick cold start time. Other then that, its NOT significantly faster then the latest Chimera, it doesn't have tabbed browsing, and it doesn't even go with OSXs UI as well! Plus the fact that its based on KHTML... just silly! Mozilla based browsers are on their way towards becoming a major player, as in #2 to IE. Between their mass adoption in Linux and AOL headed towards using it in their software, Apple and their block head programers will be left WAY behind by the vastly inferior KHTML base.

Would have been a nice try a few years ago Steve, but let me know when your ready to make a REAL browser.

[MacsRgr8]

Originally posted by jgracia
What do you guys think about steve mention he read site rumors?

Good.
He really does care about his most loyal followers :)

[cubist]

Does iDVD 3 work with external burners? The summary doesn't mention the name iLife (a silly name, but so what).

Keynote is a great program. I am amazed.

Airport Extreme is great, too.

But the 17" Powerbook is flat-out astonishing. A lighted keyboard! I just almost can't believe it. Firewire 800, too.

How can they do all this stuff?

[Macurious]

This is my first post here. C'mon ... big hug everyone. Good show overall. Uninterrupted keynote stream on a 56K modem on an AMD K6-2 450 Win98 machine so I don't know what everyone's complaining about.

Now the problem. Are they only gonna put Firewire 800 in Powerbooks? Just doesn't seem right to me ... they need to update their other lines w/this new standard ASAP. Also the fact that you need an adapter for backwards compatibility will hurt Firewire 800's acceptance. Just my 2 cents.

Later.

- Macurious

P.S. I don't have a Mac 'cause I can't afford one. :(

[Timothy]

I've found my first regular site that won't load in Safari:

It is the discussion boards at Beliefnet...the home page loads fine, but no luck on the discussion pages...

[kcmac]

by firestarter
Not bad??

$500 for a new case and Bluetooth, compared to the 12 inch iBook?

The 12inch could be so much more. This does not compete with PC ultraportables. Again Apple misses the point on expandability.

This is a POWERBOOK. DVI, big memory and PCMCIA is missing!!!

This is the common man's G4 laptop. I couldn't be happier. This new PB cost me less than the original 500 dual iBook! Bigger bus, much faster processor, altivec, double the hard drive storage, bluetooth, airport extreme, etc.

Sure I wish you could put a gig of memory in it. Don't need a card.

I also can't wait to have that silver finish! This alone will attract a crowd that thought the white skin was just too young looking.

This thing should do very well. Thanks to some good info on this site, I now will be the owner of a new powerbook instead of an 800 iBook. :D (Which ain't bad either.)

[Timothy]

Imalave...

I've seen you lobby for the current mobile phones as the replacement for the PDA. I don't think you really understand what is needed by those of us who seek an ultra-portable solution, because the current phones (and believe me, I've played with all of them) don't deliver.

Again, Apple is the only company who will be able to develop a solution that works for those of us who have integrated our digital lives on the mac platform...

[jethroted]

Well, Steve Jobs is officially wasting our time. Without a significant introduction of a new chip, or a new, amazingly thought out piece of hardware, that no one could live without, there really was no point in having this expo. How much longer will we be stranded on g4 island? Apple used to be the inovator in regards to the pc market, but they keep rehashing the same old technology in different boxes. Steve, we are seriously falling behind. A couple of new apps, and a diferent sized laptop do not warrant an expo. These are things that should have been released quietly, as updates. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not some pc user who wants to do some apple bashing here. I love apple, but they have to kick it into high gear! At the very least they could have introduced a version of itunes that encodes mp4's. They didn't even do that.

[Head Wound]

Originally posted by Timothy
I've found my first regular site that won't load in Safari:

It is the discussion boards at Beliefnet...the home page loads fine, but no luck on the discussion pages...

They work great in Mozilla and Chimera!

I say again, what was Jobs thinking? :P

[-hh]

Originally posted by firestarter


Not bad??

$500 for a new case and Bluetooth, compared to the 12 inch iBook?


And an available Superdrive, installed internally.


The 12inch could be so much more. This does not compete with PC ultraportables. Again Apple misses the point on expandability.


Of course it could have been more. I too would have liked to have seen a L3 Cache. But this package is really quite competitive with the PC ultraportables. If you disagree, I have three VAIO 505's for you to buy off of me :D



This is a POWERBOOK. DVI, big memory and PCMCIA is missing!!!


No, its a low weight RoadWarrior tool. As such:

* It needs a standard SVGA out to go into the run-of-the-mill overhead projector, not DVI.

* It needs just enough power to run MS-Powerpoint with an occasional embedded video's.

* It needs the ability to get data into the machine with a built-in CD player.

* It needs the ability to get data off the machine via CD-R(W).

* It needs to be able to occasionally hook up a USB ZIP drive for uploading someone's presentation that didn't burn it to CD.


FWIW, what do I need PCMIA for? Digital camera memory cards?

I think I may have finally found the new machine I've been holding out for. I'll have to ask the wife if I can get the 12" instead of the iBook, complete with Airport Extreme.


-hh

[ddtlm]

Some real surprises in these laptops... not only is Apple the first to use DDR-333 in a laptop (good), but they chose to place a slower video card in the 17" PB than in the 15" PB (bad). Well, perhaps the GF4MX-440 in the 17" is faster at some things, but only if the clock rate of the Radeon 9000 has been set very low. The Radeon 9000 certainly has more features. Also, depending on clock speed, the Radeon 7500 in the iBook is probably faster than the GF4MX-420 in the 12" PB. It is also likely that the no-L3 G4 would find it's butt kicked in a number to things by the top-end iBook G3.

I am rather impressed with Apple clever reuse of the iBook shell for a PB, and with the 17" iMac screen popping up in a PB. Gotta be smart to stay ahead these days. :)

[trebblekicked]

this was my first revival...i mean keynote....and what an experience it was! My roommate was drawn into my office by screams and cheers and stayed till the bitter end, laughing uproarusly at the mini-me/yao ming(?) commercial....good stuff.

Two things:

1) does final cut express officially kill aobe premiere on the mac? i mean, what's the point in adobe updating past 6.5 now?

2)i bought a 1ghz powerbook last month. i don't mind that i missed the screen size updates, or even the bluetooth, but why didn't they update the hard drive specs on the recent tibook updates (new PB's UltraATA/100, my PB Ultra ATA/66)? Nevertheless, my tibook still rocks, and i had bragging rights 'round my office for about a month.

good job, arn. good job, steve. are you guys in cahoots?

[mstecker]

I see people saying they might "wait until the g4 iBook". I have news for you. This IS the G4 iBook. Just look at them side-by-side.

[Wash!!]

I always wonder what program he use to make his presentations.
I wish I could get. Now my wish has come true
this program runs circles around powerpoint

by the way i'm use Safari, never going back to IE die M$blow!!!

Long live apple!!!:D

[valypan]

Originally posted by paulwhannel


Oh give it up... Apple's never made a web browser before, and it's amazingly well-featured, simple, and compatible. Not *that* many people use tabbed browsing, i'm happy to get it now and see tabbed browsing come in an update, rather than the whole thing be delayed until they could get THAT mess sorted out...

IE and Netscape are officially off my dock... yay!

:)
pnw

I am glad you could get rid of IE. I could not :( Maybe not many people use it, but I love Apple custom Icards and Safari just wont let me do that :( So far IE is the only browser that allows me to make custom Icards from pictures in my Idisk. Anyone know a solution to this, let me know. Anyway great keynote :D

[agp]

Has anyone downloaded the X11 beta? Could someone tell me how I set the display in the xterm so I can ssh into a remote machine and run an app across the X Server? Cheers

[trebblekicked]

print server capability on a $100.00 cheaper and five times faster, backwards compatible airport base station? This flat out rocks.

[Head Wound]

Originally posted by ddtlm
Some real surprises in these laptops... not only is Apple the first to use DDR-333 in a laptop (good), but they chose to place a slower video card in the 17" PB than in the 15" PB (bad). Well, perhaps the GF4MX-440 in the 17" is faster at some things, but only if the clock rate of the Radeon 9000 has been set very low. The Radeon 9000 certainly has more features. Also, depending on clock speed, the Radeon 7500 in the iBook is probably faster than the GF4MX-420 in the 12" PB.

Thats another good point. As much as I want to get a new 12 inch PB (I mean I REALLY REALLY REALLY want one!!!), its a damn shame Jobs decided he hates ATI. I say he does because there is no other reason to have used such a slow and old video chip! The GF4mx is really just a hopped up GF2. ATI has stuff out for laptops thats TWO GENERATIONS more advanced, and probably two times faster too. Considering how much Apple gets right, its a shame they got this, and Safari, so wrong...

[valypan]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by nickmcghie
[B]


yea i guess you're right, it IS an amazing first step, the ONLY thing i can see that is missing is tabbed browsing...

I could think of another couple of things: web pages passwords saved on Keychain (like with Chimera) and Auto Fill forms! :) Come on guys! lets start sending some feedback! :)

[Wash!!]

Originally posted by Head Wound


Thats another good point. As much as I want to get a new 12 inch PB (I mean I REALLY REALLY REALLY want one!!!), its a damn shame Jobs decided he hates ATI. I say he does because there is no other reason to have used such a slow and old video chip! The GF4mx is really just a hopped up GF2. ATI has stuff out for laptops thats TWO GENERATIONS more advanced, and probably two times faster too. Considering how much Apple gets right, its a shame they got this, and Safari, so wrong...

why safari is wrong???:confused:

[firestarter]

Originally posted by -hh


And an available Superdrive, installed internally.


Which costs more...


Of course it could have been more. I too would have liked to have seen a L3 Cache. But this package is really quite competitive with the PC ultraportables. If you disagree, I have three VAIO 505's for you to buy off of me :D

Apple is a premium brand. Comparing like with like, the IBM X series is lighter and more expandable...



No, its a low weight RoadWarrior tool. As such:

* It needs a standard SVGA out to go into the run-of-the-mill overhead projector, not DVI.


Well the other PowerBooks need this too and they have DVI. DVI includes SVGA pins - all you need is an adapter. Looks like Apple have crippled this machine on purpose.

Agree with your other points - speed will probably be OK.

I just hate the way Apple cripples stuff ON PURPOSE. I'm looking for a really portable machine that I can use to do proper work on too. I use photoshop with big files, so I'm p****d off that the 12 is limited to 640M WHEN THERE WAS NO GOOD REASON TO DO THIS. I also don't want to go back to using CRTs, and LCDs via analogue VGA is really missing the point (does Apple do a VGA LCD - no).


FWIW, what do I need PCMIA for? Digital camera memory cards?


It could have been a good way to add DVI... USB2 anyone?


I think I may have finally found the new machine I've been holding out for. I'll have to ask the wife if I can get the 12" instead of the iBook, complete with Airport Extreme.
-hh

Well good luck to you. It looks very pretty, and if you need DVD-R/RW in a machine this size it's a definate winner.

[wjdennen]

Unfortunately, Safari does not seem to handle secure sites with self-signed certificates.

IE handles these sites fine, although it throws up a warning message.

Safari just says it can't authenticate and won't let you load the site.

Self-sign certs are used often, especially for testing secure web apps.

[thebladerunner]

Never have I seen so many people happy after a keynote (including myself ;-).
This is more than anybody could ask for.


Please remember: The news.com stuff wasn't wrong. There will certainly be HW updates on the desktop side in February (including the XServe/Raid I guess) and maybe the new DLD device !

If so, Apple has a very, very good lineup till the PPC 970 comes out. I'm not worried for 2003 anymore.

[Head Wound]

Originally posted by trebblekicked
2)i bought a 1ghz powerbook last month. i don't mind that i missed the screen size updates, or even the bluetooth, but why didn't they update the hard drive specs on the recent tibook updates (new PB's UltraATA/100, my PB Ultra ATA/66)?

Not to worry! An update to ATA100 for a laptop hard drive is virtually meaningless. Laptop drives simply cannot transfer data fast enough to take full atvatage of the ATA66 interface, much less ATA100.

[iloveMac]

Amazing Arn. You caught so many folks off gaurd. So many people dissagread with your prediction. I had a hint were right only because the market in regard to owning a desktop versus a laptop is changing.

Folks out there are buying larger screen size notebooks in replace of there desktop. Take a look at Sony, they were first with there 16" screen. Then Toshiba followed with there version.

This truley will be an amazing buy. I just can't see why folks would want the imac now. Perhaps cost is the only reason.

[Head Wound]

Originally posted by wjdennen
Unfortunately, Safari does not seem to handle secure sites with self-signed certificates.

IE handles these sites fine, although it throws up a warning message.

Safari just says it can't authenticate and won't let you load the site.

Self-sign certs are used often, especially for testing secure web apps.

Thats now two things in hardly half an hour that Mozilla and thus Chimera handle just fine but 'the great KHTML mistake' does not... and thats just in this discussion thread!

[Wash!!]

Originally posted by wjdennen
Unfortunately, Safari does not seem to handle secure sites with self-signed certificates.

IE handles these sites fine, although it throws up a warning message.

Safari just says it can't authenticate and won't let you load the site.

Self-sign certs are used often, especially for testing secure web apps.

Them report this to apple and move on.. I don't if you heard it but Safari is beta last time I checked.. and since it's only about 7 hours old it maight take a little time to get old the bugs out
;)

[valypan]

Originally posted by lmalave


Well, Apple is committed to letting you sync to your SonyEricsson P800 to your Mac. (Basically a PDA, and you can install 3rd party Java apps). I don't think the iPhone or iPDA is going to happen. If it was going to it would've hapend at this Macworld. In retrospect Apple is making the right choice. The PDA is dead, dead, dead as a standalone device, and SonyEricsson, Nokia, etc. are making great phones with all the PDA functionality you could ever want (the P800 even has a stylus/touchscreen interface), so why not focus on integration instead of trying to make everything in-house? That's what got Apple into trouble before, after all....

Amen to that! But lets remind Apple to make Isync compatible with the new P800. it is indeed a fantastic phone/PDA! Wish I cud afford it! :)

[Tariq]

Re: 12 inch Powerbook real disappointment


quote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by firestarter
No DVI
No PCMCIA
Dumb 128MB built in limits it to 640MB
No cache

WTF were they thinking? I don't want to lug the 17 or 15 inch monsters around, but I wanted a SERIOUS LAPTOP. What difference will the 887MHz with no cache vs the 800MHz with cache on the iBook make? The iBook can be hacked to get external VGA video, at which point there's very little difference.

Very disappointed!!!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have to agree. Basically a G4 iBook and without the L3 cache, the iBook may prove to be just as fast anyway. When I saw this new 12" powerbook in the keynote I thought. Cool, just what I need. Better go check the specs to make sure it has 1)PC card slot(for a SCSI card and to quickly download photos from a Compact Flash Card or MicroDrive - kind of funny that Apple featured a Photog. in the ad for this PowerBook as a PC slot is a real neccesity! and I as a Photographer could not do without this feature in a laptop 2)All the cool new features of it's 17" brother. Let's see - New Firewire? NO. LIghted keyboard? NO. So basically, It's just an iBook in Powerbook clothing. NOT the smallest Full featured(read PowerBook) laptop available at all. Too bad, because that would have been great.

Tariq

[jacka55]

I'll not repeat "best keynote ever", but

Originally posted by paulwhannel

Apple's never made a web browser before

Hey! Let's not forget CyberDog. That browser sucked (Except for the name). I remember (attempting) to switch to that.

[jayscheuerle]

It is fast..... but...

Nasty brushed metal look. Black bookmarks on a 50% grey textured bkg? yuck...

Tabbed browsing rocks after you catch on. It's a necessity for a modern browser.

Bookmarks should go to a second line instead of running off the right side.

Great 1st public release though! I'll stick to Chimera if Apple's going to persist on this brushed metal look. It's too compartimental and harder on the eyes....

[lmalave]

Originally posted by Timothy
Imalave...

I've seen you lobby for the current mobile phones as the replacement for the PDA. I don't think you really understand what is needed by those of us who seek an ultra-portable solution, because the current phones (and believe me, I've played with all of them) don't deliver.

Again, Apple is the only company who will be able to develop a solution that works for those of us who have integrated our digital lives on the mac platform...

Then "those of us who seek an ultra-portable solution" are a tiny niche market. The phone is it, period. It's the only mobile device that most people will always have on them. I've gone through 3 PDAs and ended up not using any of them (when will I learn??). Even now I have a Kyocera Smartphone and don't use the PDA stuff at all - except to check Mapquest and stuff like that occasionally. So basically, the only thing you can look forward to is that the phones become more and more powerful. In the fairly near future, I envision that all the computing power in a PowerBook (or at least an iBook) will fit into a phone case. You'll be able to sit down at a desk, and magically all these wireless devices will work with the SuperPhone that's in your pocket: mouse, keyboard, and even monitor. And of course you'll still be able to use your superphone as a PDA/VideoCamera/MP3Player. It's the future, so you may as well get used to it!

The PDA form factor is just too close to a phone - and so it's going to be rolled right in. If you wanna talk Tablet, that's totally different. I think a Tablet form factor does have a future - it's not a matter of if, but when. People are already used to reading books and magazines. It's just a natural form factor that's been successful for THOUSANDS of years - at least since the time Sumerians wrote in their cuneiform tablets. But a PDA? No, way. I mean, do you see people reading books that small? It's just not practical or pleasant. The only little books people might have that size is a little organizer, and all that's useful for is jotting down appointments, addresses, and notes - which you can do on your phone. The fact is, any form factor that's between a small phone and a good-size tablet (let's say the size of an open paperback book), is really just a half-assed compromise doomed to failure. Gimme a phone or tablet, but no PDAs, thank you!

[Hemingray]

Originally posted by firestarter


Not bad??

$500 for a new case and Bluetooth, compared to the 12 inch iBook?

Wrong! If you compare a similarly-speced iBook with the 12 inch PowerBook, it's a difference of $350, and for that you get a faster G4 processor (don't forget the processor, sheesh!) AND DDR ("fake" or not, it's still DDR), AND built-in Bluetooth, AND better graphics, AND line-in. That to me is worth an extra $350!

[goofbutt]

Originally posted by firestarter


Not bad??

$500 for a new case and Bluetooth, compared to the 12 inch iBook?

The 12inch could be so much more. This does not compete with PC ultraportables. Again Apple misses the point on expandability.

This is a POWERBOOK. DVI, big memory and PCMCIA is missing!!!


I can't think of one PC ultraportable that has a CD-RW/DVR burner built into the unit and not on a 'expansion pack' that you leave at home/office. :confused:

Although both new Powerbooks are impressive, I like the cleaner lines of the 'older' Powerbooks. The new ones have all the connections on the side which IMO take away from the clean looks.

[wjdennen]

Don't worry, I filed a bug report with Apple on the self-signed cert problem... :) I am moving on.

[Wash!!]

Unlike the others that make some product and shoved down and you supposted to like.:rolleyes:

[firestarter]

Originally posted by Hemingray

Wrong! If you compare a similarly-speced iBook with the 12 inch PowerBook, it's a difference of $350, and for that you get a faster G4 processor (don't forget the processor, sheesh!) AND DDR ("fake" or not, it's still DDR), AND built-in Bluetooth, AND better graphics, AND line-in. That to me is worth an extra $350!

Eh?

iBook 12inch DVD/CD-RW = $1299
PowerBook = $1799

Agreed - there's a memory difference but if you buy memory from Apple you need your head read.

DDR sure - but no cache. The IBM G3s are pretty speedy, and there is an L3 cache on the iBook. Is the PowerBook 12 REALLY going to be faster?

Better Graphics?? The 7500 is a much better chip than a 4MX (actually a G-Force 2 by all but name).

It's a nice looking machine granted, but it's just an iBook in a metal box...

[cyberfunk]

Check out what I found !!!

http://www.apple.com/macosx/x11/

an official X11 implementation by apple !!!

Now.. where can I get Apps built for X11 that work with this ? Fink ? Or will those apps only work with the fink install of X11 ?

[Zenith]

Has anyone noticed that the Superdrive on the 17" model writes DVD's at 2x speed?

[mcrain]

Well, let the new iBook rumors at the next MW begin. "The year of the laptop."

[Head Wound]

Originally posted by Wash!!


why safari is wrong???:confused:

I already explained why I think this is previous posts.

[gandalf55]

Safari ROCKs excpet for displaying Flash...

it's about 1/3 the speed of Chimera.

the rest is great :)

[mcrain]

Did anyone notice the odd way Steve Jobs finished his discussion regarding the iPod? He said something like, and that's the end of my discussion about that, like he was holding something back, or that he knew there was a LOT of speculation about an updated iPod.

[ddtlm]

Hemingray:

Wrong! If you compare a similarly-speced iBook with the 12 inch PowerBook, it's a difference of $350, and for that you get a faster G4 processor (don't forget the processor, sheesh!) AND DDR ("fake" or not, it's still DDR), AND built-in Bluetooth, AND better graphics, AND line-in. That to me is worth an extra $350!
An 867mhz no-L3 G4 is not faster in all situations than a 512k G3 at 800mhz. A GF4Go-420 is probably slower than a Radeon 7500 Mobility, although the clock rates can vary. The DDR is worthless, no performance edge, no higher capacity, so basically it's irrelevant.

Really, not much special about the 12" PB except that Apple can sell them at a higher price than iBooks. :) I would still prefer a iBook and it's cool-running G3.

[Apple][Forever]

I don't think KHTML was a mistake.

I have a PC here I use for testing web pages in IE5, IE6, and NS7 on WinXP. I also boot into Red Hat 8 on this machine to run Folding and a few other network apps. Konqueror on the Intel box is MUCH faster than any of the Mozilla variants, and much more compliant with HTML coding.

Safari feels about 1/3 faster (that's subjective, folks, I didn't run tests) than Chimera, and light years ahead of IE. I'm not a big fan of brushed metal, but i like how they streamlined the interface. Hopefully the days of "Big Honkin' Toolbar Buttons", a holdover from Mosaic, are gone.

As long as the browser engine complies to major standards, and is fast and stable, it doesn't really matter. And KHTML is a little more streamlined than Mozilla, IMO.

Who wants to bet there was a fight in Apple Marketing whether or not to make the 12" a Powerbook or an iBook?

[lmalave]

Originally posted by cyberfunk
Check out what I found !!!

http://www.apple.com/macosx/x11/

an official X11 implementation by apple !!!

Now.. where can I get Apps built for X11 that work with this ? Fink ? Or will those apps only work with the fink install of X11 ?

Oh my goodness gracious! This is HUGE! Now Unixheads and Linuxheads everywhere will flock to the Mac in even greater numbers than before. Of course, X11 was available from 3rd parties anyway, but it's still huge to have it officially supported by Apple. Apple is definitely moving in the right direction. When you're the underdog, you have to go for as many open standards as possible, whereas the 800-lb. gorilla's strategy (MS) is to create as many propietary "standards" as possible...

[lmalave]

Originally posted by mcrain
Did anyone notice the odd way Steve Jobs finished his discussion regarding the iPod? He said something like, and that's the end of my discussion about that, like he was holding something back, or that he knew there was a LOT of speculation about an updated iPod.

Probably the latter.

[unclepain]

OK Steve. You got me. I'm currently enjoying this delicious foot in my mouth. I'm the guy who said this Macworld would be boring. I was wrong. The iApps are great- iDVD is sweet- Keynote is sweet- Safari is sweet- Final Cut Express is sweet- Firewire 800 is sweet- Airport Extreme is sweet- 17 powerbook is super sweet- 12 powerbook is good- All told, a very good Macworld. But I was there Steve when Jon Rubenstein rambled on for 30 minutes about pipeline stages. I witnessed firsthand "ten developers for OSX". I felt the sting of .Mac in person. I was hurt Steve. I actually cried. But not today- today you made me believe in the magic again. Today you reminded me why I use a Mac- it's not because they're the fastest, or the cheapest- they're just the best. And Apple really does do things for this industry that Dell, and Gateway, and Microsoft can never do- even with their piles and piles of money, thoughtful computer design and function escape them. So, I'm sorry Steve. Nice job.

[Rocketman]

Originally posted by goofbutt


Although both new Powerbooks are impressive, I like the cleaner lines of the 'older' Powerbooks. The new ones have all the connections on the side which IMO take away from the clean looks.

As a Ti400 user both on the desktop and on the lap I would prefer side ports over back ports. It is a practical matter. Also on the Ti400/500 and probably others the back has a door that covers the modem and ethernet plugs but NOT the powercord plug. If I designed it I would put the modem, ethernet and power all nearby so laptop but plugged in use is more practical. The new arrangement seems to solve this. The Airport Extreme merely rocks.

I want my Air-Power -tm to go fully wireless. I am sure the microwave exposure will only be a minor health risk :)

Some interesting random observations from the stunning new 17" PowerBook.

PB17 details of interest.

Stereo Audio in out and speakers
ATA100 drive interface (welcome but overkill)
Firewire 800 and FW400 interfaces
1/3 the bandwidth of FIBERCHANNEL
167MHz bus, PC2700 DDR333 RAM (finally)
lighted keyboard, it and the screen adjusts to ambient light
The most "practical" addition to the new system INHO.

Built-in Bluetooth 1.1
Built-in 54-Mbps AirPort Extreme wireless networking (based on 802.11g draft specification; IEEE 802.11b Wi-Fi certified)
It just rocks.

12-Mbps USB 1.1 ports
Notable no USB 2.0 despite very widespread availability of peripherals for it. Apple is trying to kill USB in their own little and futile way.

I also seemed to notice support for GSM (whatever) phones via bluetooth. I assume this means cell-phone access to internet. But I wonder how slow BT actually is. Is it even modem speed?

This feature alone would sell alot of computers if it works, is buyable as a solution and is at least as useable as a modem. Many phone companies now have data plans which are comparible to expensive landline dial-up ISP's.

I want to go on the internet from the middle of the desert and accept paypal :)

With this new release I actually got several of my wishes!

Rocketman


http://www.v-serv.com/-upload/avatar.jpg

[ddtlm]

lmalave:

Oh my goodness gracious! This is HUGE! Now Unixheads and Linuxheads everywhere will flock to the Mac in even greater numbers than before. Of course, X11 was available from 3rd parties anyway, but it's still huge to have it officially supported by Apple.
You do not seem to understand "Unixheads and Linuxheads". Installing 3rd-party software is not a big deal.

IMHO, X11 should be part of OSX by default, integrated as smoothly as Apple can.

Apple][Forever:

Who wants to bet there was a fight in Apple Marketing whether or not to make the 12" a Powerbook or an iBook?
I'll bet that there was no fight. It obviously makes sense to sell a higher-margin "pro" iBook-alike. I think this was a very smart move by Apple.

[detroitsuperfly]

Safari ****** rocks!

[Gus]

From Apple's site:
"The PPP dial-in feature in AirPort Extreme lets you make one very important wireless connection ? to your own Macintosh at home. Thanks to connectivity options such as DSL, cable and Ethernet, you can call the 56K V.90 modem-equipped AirPort Extreme Base Station at home when you?re at work or traveling. Need a document that?s on your Mac desktop at home? Not to worry. If your Mac is on, ready to share files, and connected to the Internet using the AirPort Extreme Base Station and a broadband connection, you can access it as well as the other computers ? from almost anywhere in the world."

Could we always do this?

Oh, and you can add an external antanae, AND one model does not include a modem. Funny he didn't mention any of this.

I wish the new cards worked with old hardware. I'd like to get a new base station.

Regards,
Gus

[MacsRgr8]

Originally posted by cyberfunk
Check out what I found !!!

http://www.apple.com/macosx/x11/

an official X11 implementation by apple !!!

Now.. where can I get Apps built for X11 that work with this ? Fink ? Or will those apps only work with the fink install of X11 ?

Have you tried OpenOffice...? the same free Office suite that's shipping withe Red Hat 8 Linux.
Take a look: http://www.openoffice.org/
It did work (terribly slow though) with the previous XDarwin.

[Head Wound]

Since its been asked: Bluetooth is gonna give you about a megabit of bandwidth. Pleanty.

[alset]

Originally posted by nickmcghie
uhhhh... no tabbed browsing???? wtf were they thinking??? i'm gonna stick with chimera until they add tabbed browsing

I posted a bug for Safari mentioning that they were missing. 8)

At least it's really trim and has a minimalistic interface.

Dan

[lmalave]

Originally posted by ddtlm
lmalave:
You do not seem to understand "Unixheads and Linuxheads". Installing 3rd-party software is not a big deal.


Ummm...maybe I shouldn't even have mentioned Linuxheads.

My real intention was to comment on Apple, not Linuxheads. I'm just saying any sign that Apple is embracing Unix even more tightly is a good thing - it helps Apple build on the momentum it's already gained in the Unix/Linux world. In the very near future (if not already), you'll have two core Mac constituencies: 1) creative professionals and 2) so-called "Alpha Geeks". The Mac community will be like one big Carnegie-Mellon!

[chetwilliams]

Originally posted by wjdennen
Unfortunately, Safari does not seem to handle secure sites with self-signed certificates.

IE handles these sites fine, although it throws up a warning message.

Safari just says it can't authenticate and won't let you load the site.

Self-sign certs are used often, especially for testing secure web apps.

Safari performs poorly with secure sites all around. They are slow to load and they cannot even be accessed at all through a proxy that operates on a port other than 443 (which makes it useless at my company).

[Molson]

Did you know that in Safari you can use Apple shortcuts to go to your favourite sites? Any sites on your bookmark toolbar can be accessed by pressing Apple-1 (the first one on the toolbar), Apple-2 (the second) etc etc

Pretty neat eh?

LOVED the keynote.

One word.

WOW

[Head Wound]

Originally posted by Molson
Did you know that in Safari you can use Apple shortcuts to go to your favourite sites? Any sites on your bookmark toolbar can be accessed by pressing Apple-1 (the first one on the toolbar), Apple-2 (the second) etc etc

Pretty neat eh?


Actually yeah! That is pretty neat! Sould be on Chimera pretty quick Id imagine. Can't wait!

[Dignan]

Anyone noticing the similarities, design wise, between new powerbooks and ibooks?

also, is there no light up keyboard on the 12 inch? I dont think there is

also with keyboards, notice how the letters are placed centrally on the key, not in corner, and with new font. interesting, cool.

[blakespot]

What a fine bevy of gifts from Apple this time around. Incredible.

Hope the real-time update was to you folks' liking. Cheers.


blakespot

[Apple][Forever]

Originally posted by Dignan
Anyone noticing the similarities, design wise, between new powerbooks and ibooks?

also, is there no light up keyboard on the 12 inch? I dont think there is

also with keyboards, notice how the letters are placed centrally on the key, not in corner, and with new font. interesting, cool.

Looks like the same font on my 12" iBook, but the iBook keyboard is white, not cool ass silver.

And, yeah, probably no fight, just a light bulb going off in some marketer's head... must have read the "i'd buy a G4 iBook" threads :)

[nuksu]

some interesting notes:

15" PowerBook 1GHz SuperDrive (ATI9000 64MB) price dropped
15" PowerBook 867 MHz Combo (ATI9000 32MB) no price drops
(order a built-to-order option of the 1GHz model with a drop to combo/40Gb and it comes close to the price of the 867MHz model; difference 150$ with similar RAM)

17" PowerBook estimated shipping in Europe LATE MARCH
(not that I could afford it)

Do you think it is the PowerPC 7457 inside the new AluBooks?

[Head Wound]

Originally posted by nuksu
Do you think it is the PowerPC 7457 inside the new AluBooks?

Its about time! Ive been waiting for someone to call them AluBooks!

[James.Paul]

This has been the first keynote I've watched live and it was immense. I didn't know that these things could be so exciting. Jobs is a great performer on stage. Love the look of the updated iApps. I'm very happy that the iApps remain free unless you want iDVD (to me they will stay free), Keynote looks superb, and Safari is nice, fast and easy to use. This is a great start to the year and I hope that it continues.

[Gus]

So far the pop up blocker in Safari works great! I love it!

Regards,
Gus

[rainman::|:|]

The keys are laser-cut, which is probaby why the font is different, and the letters are in the middle of the keys for aesthetic reasons i'd imagine. looks better to have them centered.

I've only had one bug with safari so far, it doesn't always handle mailto: tags correctly-- it seems to send the request to Mail without sending the address with it. Not a huge deal...

The 12" powerbook never claimed to have light-up keys. What i want to know is whether or not this feature will eventually make it to the 15" models. Along with the new antennas, and the aluminum shell, etc etc...

BTW, my congrats to arn as well, i didn't give that rumor much thought, it was a total surprise.

I think these updates can tide us over into at least the summer, before sales start to drag again, and by all reports Q3 will bring new processors... new updates to the iMac and iBook (and perhaps tower and emac) should help to keep things above water until then... i have a feeling we'll see G4 ibooks in the very near future...

:)
pnw

[Gus]

Jobs also showed off a new suite of software, iLife. The package of programs, some of which used to come as free downloads, will be bundled together for $49 beginning Jan. 25.

iLife includes updates of the popular iPhoto, iMovie, iTunes and iDVD programs, bundling them together so they interact. That means creative users can e-mail home videos with their favorite music playing in the background, or integrate still photos into video projects.

iLife is a cornerstone of Apple's attempt to turn the home computer into a center of entertainment and creativity.

Apple executives hope iLife will boost market share of the Macintosh operating system, particularly the newest Mac OS X, and entice customers to switch from personal computers using Microsoft Windows.

Less than 5 percent of computer users have the Macintosh operating system. Although many users praise Macintosh for its stability, programmers and engineers often develop software and hardware to run exclusively on Windows computers because of its wider reach.

Alan Promisel, a research analyst for Framingham, Mass.-based IDC, praised iLife's $49 price tag, noting that Apple is one of the few companies able to impose fees on previously free products without a major customer revolt.

But he doubted iLife could even being to reverse Windows' momentum.

"It's another source of revenue for them, and it does position the company in the top tier of multimedia applications in one package on a computer," Promisel said. "But without a lynchpin that causes people to switch to a Mac, I'm not sure it will really increase its market share."

I hate AP.

Regards,
Gus

[jettredmont]

Originally posted by Head Wound


Its about time! Ive been waiting for someone to call them AluBooks!

I personally prefer "AlumaBooks" ... rolls off the tongue, and nicely alludes to the most useful feature, the "illumination" of the keyboard ...

Sounds better than "Aluminium Books", no offense to the Brits in the audience ... :)

[pyrotoaster]

What a great keynote!

One thing that I really liked was the lack of items with "i" in the title.
It works really well for the key iApps, and small things like iCal and iSync, but I think we would all be a little pissed if Apple had called Safari anything with "i" in the name.

Although Safari is a strange name...
Anyway, I'm using Safari right now, and I love it. I miss Chimera's tabbed browsing, but I'm loving everything else about this thing.
For those who don't believe Steve, it really is faster, and way better than Internet Explorer.

Way to go Apple! :D

[pilotgi]

Well, it appears you can't use aiport extreme with an iBook. I wasn't even able to access the "old" card on apple's site.

I hope they drop the price on the airport card for the iBook.

[weinmatt]

Personally, I bought the 1 GHz 15" about two months back and aside from the $200 price break, my decision certainly would not have changed today!

The 12" is awesome. Kudos to Apple for a full featured (albeit with loose ends -- no DVI, no PCMCIA, and no cache) sub-notebook with a SuperDrive.

However, the 17" to me is just plain awkward. The keyboard is sweet and integrated bluetooth is sweet but... lets face it, the thing is gigantic. The 15" hit my sweet spot as far as size was concerned, it fits in a backpack, its not too heavy. The 17" however is 2 inches wider and an inch deeper, which is enormous. I feel its a loss-leader so Apple can brag about how they have the biggest notebook screen on the market. The 12" is the clear innovation today, and shows that the iBook is not getting a G4 until Apple puts something else in the PowerBook... which should be just in time for me to sell this one :-D

Apple's switch to NVidia however... the 64 meg 440 is no better than the 64 meg 9000... its kind of all a wash. Plus, the 17" has a clear battery issue, as the 15" off the bat has a better battery and clearly uses less power.

Give Apple six months and the 15" will get a revision just like everything else. But at least I'm happy with what I got.

Just my 2 cents as always...

[pyrotoaster]

Did I mention Safari has a great UI?

It really does! The bookmarks are easy to use, and not having that stupid little bar at the bottom is really nice!

[doops]

By the way, has anybody noticed that Safari really is much better with font smoothing? Go check out some really small text in it, vs. Chimera or IE. Nice.

[spikeovsky]

Originally posted by paulwhannel


Oh give it up... Apple's never made a web browser before, and it's amazingly well-featured, simple, and compatible. Not *that* many people use tabbed browsing, i'm happy to get it now and see tabbed browsing come in an update, rather than the whole thing be delayed until they could get THAT mess sorted out...

IE and Netscape are officially off my dock... yay!

:)
pnw

Actually, Apple *did* make a browser a few years back (in the OpenDoc days) called "CyberDog". Still the best browser name ever, IMHO. Unfortunately, the browser sucked, at least on the hardware I was running at the time - LC475 25MHz/8MB RAM/160MB HD.

Gather 'round now, kids. I remember, in my pre-475 days, lusting after a straight-up LC. They had COLOUR DISPLAYS! And it was so exciting when I found a *4x* CD-ROM drive for my 475 for *only* US$335

And I like to tell myself that I'm not even that old!

:)

-spikeovksy

[rainman::|:|]

gus: it should be noted that iTunes, iMovie and iPhoto are still going to be available for free download, iDVD is simply being sold, as Jobs says, because it's too big to download. The other three free programs are simply in the package for convenience's sake.

iDVD has never been free. Tho i don't know how much it cost originally... they just tied things together, didn't change availability much...

edit: Yes i do remember cyberdog, but it's almost in a different class, it's not a modern browser by today's standards. But i stand corrected, they have made a browser. My point was that they didn't have a previous version to start from, like other companies, but rather had to start from scratch. Safari is an amazing first-run of a beta browser.

:)
pnw

[trebblekicked]

Originally posted by weinmatt
Personally, I bought the 1 GHz 15" about two months back and aside from the $200 price break, my decision certainly would not have changed today!


yeah, me too. Actually, i prefer spending that extra $200 a month ago, and still being able to boot into OS9 (my scanner drivers haven't been updated by Epson yet- i have to scan in OS9). Plus, bluetooth is only like 50 bucks as a USB add on. All in all, the update didn't cause much anger amongst those who just bought the TiBook last month. That's saying something.

I thought the jabs at Quark were pretty funny, but the body shots to Microsquash were hilarious. EAT THAT, POWERPOINT/IE!!!

[DakotaGuy]

Originally posted by paulwhannel
i have a feeling we'll see G4 ibooks in the very near future...

:)
pnw

I think this IS Apple's answer to a G4 iBook from what I see. I think Apple would be smart to leave the G3 iBook as it is and lower the price some more, maybe stick a 1Ghz in it next time around. If they do not lower the prices I think the new Powerbook 12" will kill the iBook sales.

There should be no more I want a G4 iBook whining on here anymore!!!

Will we ever see new iMacs and eMacs? or are they going to make the current models hold on until summer???

Safari is good and quite speedy, but I won't be dumping IE until it works as good loading all different types of pages. Every browser I have ever tried, although faster then IE, has had some issues with certain sites. IE might be slow, but it works with everything.

Keynote is exciting and nice to see.

I still think an iBook 1Ghz Sahara would have this new 12" Powerbook for lunch, but that is just my opinion. Will they ever make it now? Probably not.

[rainman::|:|]

Originally posted by Abercrombieboy
I think this IS Apple's answer to a G4 iBook from what I see. I think Apple would be smart to leave the G3 iBook as it is and lower the price some more, maybe stick a 1Ghz in it next time around. If they do not lower the prices I think the new Powerbook 12" will kill the iBook sales.

True, the 12" did blur the lines between the two models, but Apple's certainly going to keep the iBook around, and i think while we wait for the next-generation processor, Apple's going to top out their existing equipment. That way, they can impliment much faster G5's in the next round of updates... Tho of course they might want to bump the iMac to 1.25 and iBook to 1GHz, while moving the tower and then Powerbook to G5. but who knows? i know we've been looking at iBooks a lot lately (almost bought one last night), but i'm gonna try and convince the husband to go with this now... if he insists on getting a laptop, that is...

:)
pnw

[ejb190]

Originally posted by spikeovsky

Gather 'round now, kids. I remember, in my pre-475 days, lusting after a straight-up LC. They had COLOUR DISPLAYS! And it was so exciting when I found a *4x* CD-ROM drive for my 475 for *only* US$335

And I like to tell myself that I'm not even that old!

-spikeovksy

And I remember when the $4000 8088 I have and use was new... And *I'm* not that old!

I was kind of hoping for iMac updates, but the 12" PB might have changed my mind. I will probably wait until they start shipping and see what people say about them.

As someone who uses Powerpoint on both PC's and Mac's, I can not wait to get my hands on Keynote!!!!!!! I am not particularry fond of the OS9 version of Powerpoint (don't have OSX) and Office XP puts features in weird places...

Wow! These posts are coming faster than I can read them!!!!!!

[MacFan25]

I am very happy with what happened at MacWorld today. I love the new Powerbook, too. I was waiting until after the expo to buy an iPod, because I was kind of hoping for price drops. But, even though the price didn't drop, I am still going to buy one, and I can't wait!

[pyrotoaster]

I just discovered that in Safari, your toolbar bookmarks are automatically assigned a keyboard shortcut! :)
The first site is apple-1, the second is apple-2, and so on...

Safari is really cool, I just want it to have tabbed browsing!

[coolsoldier]

Great Keynote!
One thing about safari tho-those little icons in the address bar don't carry over into the Dock, so I still just end up with a bunch of springboard icons!

[chetwilliams]

Originally posted by Abercrombieboy


Will we ever see new iMacs and eMacs? or are they going to make the current models hold on until summer???



My prediction is that new iMacs/eMacs/PowerMacs will be released the week of January 20th to precede the 1/25 release of iLife. The new machines will ship with iLife preinstalled. I think the only reason they are waiting on releasing iLife is so that it will coincide with the release of the updated hardware (keeping in mind that the updated PowerBooks won't be available until around the same time or later).

[Tom800]

Hey I remember lusting after a hard disk when I ran everything from two floppies on an Atari way back when! Then when i got one - 120Mb, it was the ****!

Concerning the laptops: no DVI is the biggest letdown of the 12" - I was set to buy one along with a 17" screen to get the best of size and portability, but it seems Apple doesn't want this. Then the 17" PB, what the hell are you gonna plug that into other than a 22/23" for another several grand? So that issue is screwed. Then there's the useless FireWire 800 with nothing to plug into. Then on the 12" PB (that better be a real PB design and not a paint job on the iBook; it must be, if they say it's the smallest ever, smaller than the Duo, etc) - as someone pointed out without the L3 cache you get sound issues; yet they include a line-in. This is a very confused laptop offering from a user standpoint, but makes great sense from Apples perspective as a lot of people will buy the AlumiBook (read what you will into that name) over the real iBook and so they'll make a bundle, while the 17" will be great for their image.

My biggest qualm: where is AAC? I'm at crisis point here in that I can't rip another CD (been chucking stuff for months, now I'm down to the un-chuckable music) until a smaller format/larger iPod comes along. I was really hoping for AAC, so PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE STEVE! We now know you read these, so in the next month give us AAC!

In closing, despite what I've said above, I hugely enjoyed the keynote: Steve's speaking is great, no lengthy talks by developers, AlumiBook may look better in the 'flesh' than onscreen, Sahari is gonna be great (hell it is, but moreso) once it gets rolling, the other apps are great.

Here's to Apple Office a couple of years down the line, and a tiny PB like this one but with L3 cache and DVI (they'd have my order by now if it weren't for this - why, Apple, why?!).

[Jeromino]

Now, if we can manage a new and less expensive display line in the next 4-6 weeks, I'll be happy. And I'm another who just purchased a TiBook 867 Combo and doesn't feel shortchanged. Well, not nearly as much as when I browsed to the 17" iMac on my shiny new 15"...

Good show, well-delivered presentation.

[pyrotoaster]

Originally posted by chetwilliams

My prediction is that new iMacs/eMacs/PowerMacs will be released the week of January 20th to precede the 1/25 release of iLife. The new machines will ship with iLife preinstalled. I think the only reason they are waiting on releasing iLife is so that it will coincide with the release of the updated hardware (keeping in mind that the updated PowerBooks won't be available until around the same time or later).

That sounds about right, good call!
We know new iMacs and eMacs will come soon, but right around the release of iLife sounds just right.
Although it might be a few days afterwards, instead of before.

[ryan]

What I'm somewhat surprised about is how the 15" TiPBs weren't upgraded to include built-in Bluetooth, AirPort Extreme, FireWire 800 and DDR RAM.

As for the 12" PowerBook not having a L3 cache, does it have a L2 cache? If so, how much? Remember the 800MHz iBook doesn't have a L3 cache either, only L2.

[chewbaccapits]

Imalave

"When you're the underdog, you have to go for as many open standards as possible, whereas the 800-lb. gorilla's strategy (MS) is to create as many propietary 'standards" as possible'...Nice


Tom800

"Then there's the useless FireWire 800 with nothing to plug into."

I believe they HAD to ANNOUCE this feature...We'll see peripherals that compliment soon enough.....

MY question is DOES DVD3 support 3rd party BURNERS? I didn't see any mention in the specs, but I keep hearing people say NOW they'll invest in a BURNER...


BTW, isn't there alot of NOOBS here that are kinda negative from the first post !...Anyways, IT was a great show.....The browser will get better, let's just "mail" APPLE with criticism_not constructive bitching.....Just relax.

[starflyer 59]

Originally posted by chewbaccapits


MY question is DOES DVD3 support 3rd party BURNERS? I didn't see any mention in the specs, but I keep hearing people say NOW they'll invest in a BURNER...




No, it does not support third party burners. the website says that it is for iMacs, eMacs and Powerbooks equipped with Superdrives.

Maybe next time.

[pyrotoaster]

Guess what next 2004 is...

Year of the desktop, with the PowerPC 970 ;)

[Choppaface]

bah not another app with the brushed metal look... it's getting so old!!!

[bigjohn]

- Hmmm, once it imports the set of IE bookmarks on the first launch, you can't reimport new ones, even from IE

- If you try and delete the bookmarks and reinstall the app, it doesn't work again - only one import per person i guess

- Not compatible with Mozilla bookmarks on import (and I'm not gonna drag and drop 1k bookmarks like it suggests in the help section)

- Looks good though and seems fast

- Tabbed browsing would be dope.

[artistry]

Steve said iMovie was free and availablie in iLife. But according to the Apple web site, iPhoto 2 and iMovie 3 are only available in the box set, not for free download.

Who's right, or did I misunderstand him?

[ibjoshua]

Congratulations to Arn for his excellent rumour-gathering and to NewOrder for fanning the flames last night.

I'm starting to wonder why SJ didn't show off the 12" first? That way the extra features that the 17" has wouldn't have seemed to be 'missing' when we took a closer look at the 12". Although I'm sure he didn't say it had all the features of the 17" that was what I inferred from the way it was introduced. I suspect it was this that has created such a backlash against it here.

With regards to Safari I too am disapointed that it doesn't have tabbed browsing. I use tabs every day. They're great. It also seems a shame that Apple didn't embrace Chimera and help them out instead of going with KHTML (I'm a web developer and I've never heard of it - anyone want to fill us in?)

Otherwise I totally enjoyed the keynote, the software developments looked excellent.

I tell you what If I were into mountain sports or lived somewhere cold that Burton jacket would be so cool. (Okay, warm then.)

i_b_joshua

[Deltan]

Will existing TiBook and iBook customers be able to get in on the 802.11g bandwagon?

I've held out on picking up any wireless things because I figured something like this would happen sooner or later. 802.11g or a I was expecting.

Can we buy airport cards for current ibooks? :confused:

[ibjoshua]

Originally posted by artistry
Steve said iMovie was free and availablie in iLife. But according to the Apple web site, iPhoto 2 and iMovie 3 are only available in the box set, not for free download.

Who's right, or did I misunderstand him?

I think they're not available until the 25th of January.

i_b_joshua

[ibjoshua]

Originally posted by Deltan
Will existing TiBook and iBook customers be able to get in on the 802.11g bandwagon?

I've held out on picking up any wireless things because I figured something like this would happen sooner or later. 802.11g or a I was expecting.

Can we buy airport cards for current ibooks? :confused:

No. Airport Extreme ready machines only.
Shame, I was thinking the same thing.

i_b_joshua

[dabirdwell]

Well, great!

Now I can't decide if it will be worth it to buy the 12" Powerbook over the 12" iBook. I have been intentionally waiting until after this MW to buy...

Do we expect the performance to justify the price?

[Doctor Q]

Originally posted by pyrotoaster
One thing that I really liked was the lack of items with "i" in the title.
In the sense, they reduced the number of iApps by three by turning iPhoto, iTunes, iMovie, and iDVD into one iLife package, as least for marketing and packaging purposes.

[Deltan]

Originally posted by i_b_joshua


No. Airport Extreme ready machines only.
Shame, I was thinking the same thing.

i_b_joshua

Are you serious? Wow what a kick in the teeth from Apple. My ibook isn't that old, it's a 700Mhz Model and I can't even get 802.11g? gg Apple

:mad:

[artistry]

Originally posted by pyrotoaster
Did I mention Safari has a great UI?

It really does! The bookmarks are easy to use, and not having that stupid little bar at the bottom is really nice!

I miss the status bar - I use it to check where links take me and other things, and for web development it's really useful. Plus I think it just needs something to close the window, aesthetically speaking ;) It looks like everything's going to fall out of the bottom!

More seriously though, the status bar is where I look to see if a page has loaded. I don't like the progress bar in the address box - it seems counter-intuitive to me, and contradicts the OSX user inteface guidelines (try selecting the address while something's loading - can you tell the difference?)

[vniow]

Does anyone know if the old Airport slot can handle the amount of bandwith needed for Airport Extreme?

[Gus]

Originally posted by paulwhannel
gus: it should be noted that iTunes, iMovie and iPhoto are still going to be available for free download, iDVD is simply being sold, as Jobs says, because it's too big to download. The other three free programs are simply in the package for convenience's sake.

iDVD has never been free. Tho i don't know how much it cost originally... they just tied things together, didn't change availability much...

pnw

Yes, I understood that. My point was that AP did not understand that. I was quoting an AP article which never states that those Apps are actually free. Thank you though. ;P

iDVD was free with all machines that had a Superdrive. The upgrade to iDVD 2 was 19.95 +shipping.

Regards,
Gus

[dabirdwell]

I thought this was more of a move to make sure all new Apples are working on the most progressive industry standard. Are there really that many places you can connect that fast wirelessly now?

[utilizer]

First off, I praise Apple for thinking outside the box they've been in for the last two years. Second, I didn't buy the November Powerbook b/c of build quality issues that several of my friends have had (screws coming loose and the bottom falling off!) and the wicked tumble one guy had at the Powerpage.org with his new 1 Ghz. My Pismo has been dropped several times; one guy's Ti drops and cracks, with the battery falling out as soon as he picks it up! I also knew that it was time for a case revision anyways.
Although I always knew that an Apple tablet is not in the future (come on, you see Jobs on CNBC all the time being asked about that and he dogs/balks at the idea everytime), I still held out the hope for something much more.
Well, wow. I am surprised -- macrumors is usually very accurate every single time something like this happens, but when I checked in this morning before heading off to class, I had my doubts about a 17 in. PB. What would battery life be like?! How would you carry it?!?!
Alas, all of my fears have been put to rest!
I figure this will be a good birthday present for myself to get (late Feb.)!
I can't wait, I've been holding out for several years to squeeze out as much utility out of this Pismo as possible. I have the G4 Bluechip upgrade and if PowerLogix had their new G3 800 mhz upgrade (announced today) ready for purchase on their web site, I would have gotten that immediately!!!!! I'll be getting that anyways to have this as a backup machine. ; )

Here's what the products like down the road --
SOLID INFO:
WWDC: XServes updated
Special Event (Feb. 12): Updated iMacs (1 ghz NOT the 7457) and updated PowerMacs (dual 7457 G4 1.4 Ghz starting at dual 1 ghzs); iTunes 4 also released here

QUESTIONABLE, but what I'm certain about:
Summer Events: Bluetooth Mice and Keyboards released; lighted keyboards optional
Around October: Powerbook line updated to 7457 chipsets up to 1.4 Ghz with faster superdrives); iBooks get G4s up to 1 Ghz)
MWSF 2004: Economy picks up, New IBM 970 PowerMacs, starting at dual 1.7 Ghz, then single 1.8 and 2.0 ghz models with 3D display technology; DVDs will be at $1;
WWDC 2004: PowerBook line revision, IBM 970 1.7 Ghz; Convertible notebooks that turn into tablets on the fly, with a new suite of Apps designed for these applications (similar to Windows Journal but much better organized)


Well done Apple and welcome back!!

[artistry]

Apple's UK store doesn't seem to workin Safari!
The site's not working anyway (can't place an order, change my setails or anything) but that's true in other browsers too.
But images aren't loading in Safari and the pages look awful...

I'm liking Safari but this is a bit odd to me!

Features I miss: auto form filling, status bar and a splash screen as it loads ;)

[ibjoshua]

Originally posted by artistry


I miss the status bar - I use it to check where links take me and other things, and for web development it's really useful.

Totally agree. However I think the 'progress bar' is ingenious.

i_b_joshua

PS
I lived in Brighton for a year until 18 months ago. Nice wee city.

[artistry]

Originally posted by i_b_joshua


Totally agree. However I think the 'progress bar' is ingenious.

i_b_joshua

PS
I lived in Brighton for a year until 18 months ago. Nice wee city.

Ha! :)

Just edited my original post to say I don't like the progress bar! Just goes to show you can't please everybody, can you ;) Oh well, that's the way it goes...

Just moved to Brighton - don't know anybody yet (most boring Christmas and New Year ever) but at least I'm learning JavaScript and ActionScript! It is a nice place but daunting for a newcomer!

[rainman::|:|]

Originally posted by chetwilliams
My prediction is that new iMacs/eMacs/PowerMacs will be released the week of January 20th to precede the 1/25 release of iLife. The new machines will ship with iLife preinstalled. I think the only reason they are waiting on releasing iLife is so that it will coincide with the release of the updated hardware (keeping in mind that the updated PowerBooks won't be available until around the same time or later).

Nope, Apple is offering a package where people who buy new Macs after today can get iLife when it's released for free. It's on the website. I think the 12" PowerBooks are going to be available about 10 days before iLife is released...

artistry: The status bar is still around, go to View > Show Status Bar. It gives the text displays during loading, the progress bar itself stays behind the URL bar. I'd be lost without the status bar.

Gus: Sorry, just wanted to make sure :)

Bigjohn: Have you tried selecting all of your Mozilla bookmarks and dragging them, all at once?
[edit: sorry i doubted you. this is not amusing, they should definitely have an "Import Favorites" feature, i mean netscape stores it in very simple HTML format... dunno how Safari stores it, it might just be simpler to go editing the files, then do a batch "find/replace" to fix the separator code. that's a lot of work tho...]

I haven't tried importing my Netscape bookmarks yet... i hope there's a simpler solution to be found...

:)
pnw

[job]

Originally posted by artistry
a splash screen as it loads ;)

A splash screen for all of 3 seconds. :p :D

[artistry]

Originally posted by paulwhannel


artistry: The status bar is still around, go to View > Show Status Bar. It gives the text displays during loading, the progress bar itself stays behind the URL bar. I'd be lost without the status bar.

Ahem...

I wondered, who'd be the first to spot that one. Well done, that man. Rest of you - pay attention. :D

[touchsky]

Originally posted by i_b_joshua


Totally agree. However I think the 'progress bar' is ingenious.

i_b_joshua

PS
I lived in Brighton for a year until 18 months ago. Nice wee city.

You can turn on the Status Bar in the View menu..

[Kheraha]

Originally posted by i_b_joshua


No. Airport Extreme ready machines only.
Shame, I was thinking the same thing.

i_b_joshua



This is on the UK Apple Store site - not for sale yet though.

At a Glance
The Belkin 54g Wireless Notebook Network Card provides you with networking speeds nearly five times faster than the current Wi-Fi (802.11b) standard. This Card uses the wireless 54g 2.4GHz standard to offer you the widest working range ? up to 1,800 feet ? and greater interoperability in mixed networking environments! 54g technology is backward compatible with the 802.11b Wi-Fi standard, so it allows you to implement faster wireless technologies in combination with existing 802.11b Wi-Fi networks. An added Turbo Mode feature isolates your network from 802.11b wireless clients and allows your network to transmit at the highest 54g data rate ? 54Mbps. Sets up with the ease and the simplicity of Plug-and-Play technology on any Macintosh laptop equipped with a 32-bit CardBus slot.

Specifications:
? Maximum distance at 54Mbps: 50M, maximum distance at 18Mbps: 150M
? Backward compatible with the 802.11b Wi-Fi networking standard.
? Security: 64/128-bit WEP (Wired Equivalent Privacy)
? Antenna Type: Integrated
? LED Indicators: Power, Radio Activity
? Turbo Mode feature isolates your network from 802.11b wireless clients and allows your network to transmit at the highest 54g data rate ? 54Mbps
? Keeps laptop batteries running longer with advance, low-power consumption chipset
? Free 24-hour technical support
? Belkin Lifetime Warranty

System requirements
? Any PowerBook with a 32-bit CardBus slot
? Mac OS X v. 10.2 recommended

[jholzner]

Originally posted by artistry
Steve said iMovie was free and availablie in iLife. But according to the Apple web site, iPhoto 2 and iMovie 3 are only available in the box set, not for free download.

Who's right, or did I misunderstand him?

If you read the iLife press release it says "On January 25, iPhoto 2 and iMovie 3 will be available for free download at www.apple.com." It's just not stated on the iLife page.

[RandomMacGuy]

... and that spinning box you saw on KeyNote? Yeah... it's just a spinning box. That's been every OpenGL example program since... forever. It isn't innovation.

Chimera is still better than Safari. (Death to the death of tabbed browsing!) Btw, I *hate* brushed metal. Why invest so much money to create the Aqua look and then use brushed metal??? If I am going to use a web browser EVERY DAY, I sure as hell want it to look like my other windows. First chance I get, I'm nib-hacking.

I love apple, but when the glow of Steve's oddly luminescent (yet colorless) turtleneck dies down, these little bits of "innovation" are just that... hype.

You want to flame me? Go ahead, but my G4 isn't getting any faster.

- RMG

P.S. The snowboarding jacket looks cool... maybe I'll steal one... next season... 'cuz I sure as hell cant afford it :)

(Ugh. I forgot to mention. Now my mom is telling me what browser to use... after using IE for so long. She's telling me about searching with google... I mention tabbed browsing and she says "whuzzat?")

[wdlove]

Does anyone think that auto fill might be added in a future update?

[artistry]

Originally posted by RandomMacGuy
Btw, I *hate* brushed metal. Why invest so much money to create the Aqua look and then use brushed metal??? If I am going to use a web browser EVERY DAY, I sure as hell want it to look like my other windows. First chance I get, I'm nib-hacking.

I'm not keen on the brushed metal look either tho' IMHO this is the best use of it I've seen (quite minimal).

But I'm also tired of the stripes look in the main UI - very bondi-blue iMac. I'd prefer a slightly off-white light grey flat look with maybe a little bit of shading at the edges?

[ddtlm]

Abercrombieboy:

I think this IS Apple's answer to a G4 iBook from what I see. I think Apple would be smart to leave the G3 iBook as it is and lower the price some more, maybe stick a 1Ghz in it next time around. If they do not lower the prices I think the new Powerbook 12" will kill the iBook sales.
Every iBook sale "killed" by a PBook of any flavor means more money for Apple.

Tom800:

Then the 17" PB, what the hell are you gonna plug that into other than a 22/23" for another several grand?
You could get a second screen and expand your desktop accross both.

ryan:

As for the 12" PowerBook not having a L3 cache, does it have a L2 cache? If so, how much? Remember the 800MHz iBook doesn't have a L3 cache either, only L2.
The 12" PB has a standard G4, which means 256k L2 on die. The iBook has one of IBM's 750fx G3's which means 512k L2 on die.

dabirdwell:

Do we expect the performance to justify the price?
No, the G4 is only faster in some programs, and the video card in the 12" PB is probably slower than the one in the iBook (although it is hard to know for sure because Apple does not talk about the graphics clocks and I don't know about the speeds of the drivers from nVidia vs those from ATI).

[Chomolungma]

Originally posted by artistry


Ahem...

I wondered, who'd be the first to spot that one. Well done, that man. Rest of you - pay attention. :D

Download Safari ~15 mins after the Keynote and took Status Bar away on one of the apple store computer.:D Personally, I love display space, so taking everything away except the title bar and off course the scroll bar on the right. However, being an apple store computer, I place all the bars back:)

I guess everyone has their personal preferrence

[pyrotoaster]

Originally posted by RandomMacGuy

You want to flame me? Go ahead, but my G4 isn't getting any faster.

I doubt the G4 will ever break 2 GHz...
That said, I have great hope that we'll see a Powermac 970 (probably Dual 970) before MWSF04.

As for the rest of your post, I originally didn't like brushed metal, but it actually looks pretty darn cool on my iApps. It could just be that I miss the days when you could get an iMac with a cool Graphite casing.
Apple really uses brushed metal on applications where aqua would be cumbersome. Think about it, it sort of makes sense.

I like Safari, it shows a lot of promise, and has already earned a place in my dock, but Chimera won't be leaving anytime soon. I really hope Apple builds tabbed-browsing into a future version of Safari, I've grown to use to it to live without it.

[vanillamike]

Hey everyone,

This is my first post, and I think this web site is great!!!!

Now on to the reason I am posting, did anyone notice anything missing at MWSF 2003?

I sure did no iPod revision aside from that (very expensive) Burton iPod jacket. I mean $500 US for a jacket with controls in the sleeve. I would only go for that if it came with bluetooth which gave me updates on the weather and the ski conditions, oh and where the good jumps are at ;) .

I was (and still am) hoping for the price to drop a little more. I was also hoping for the mic input, and an FM tuner. Maybe Firewire 800, mostly just for future faster compatibility.

When do you all think the revision will occur, and is it safe to buy one right now?

I know it has to be coming soon with the release of Creative's Zen. I know you will say that is comparing apples and oranges. But at $120 US cheaper (same capacity), with USB & Firewire, WMA support, and an option wired remote with mic and FM tuner, something must be done!!!!!

Mike

[pyrotoaster]

Originally posted by vanillamike

I sure did no iPod revision aside from that (very expensive) Burton iPod jacket. I mean $500 US for a jacket with controls in the sleeve. I would only go for that if it came with bluetooth which gave me updates on the weather and the ski conditions, oh and where the good jumps are at .

I was (and still am) hoping for the price to drop a little more. I was also hoping for the mic input, and an FM tuner. Maybe Firewire 800, mostly just for future faster compatibility.

I don't see iPod revisions in the near future, Apple has a list of priorities to get through first.

1. Update iMacs and eMacs
2. Get Firewire 800 on all new machines
3. Get AirPort Extreme (btw, great name) in all iBooks and Powerbooks
4. If it really is "the year of the laptop" big update for iBooks
5. Xserve update (@ WWDC?)
6. Kill OS 9 (I'm not saying I agree with it) once and for all
7. Powermac Speed bumps

Also, Apple won't put Firewire 800 into the iPod, at least not any time in the next year (or more), unless it's an added option. The new PB are the only machines with Firewire 800 right now.

[cheesypoof]

OMG!!!
Check out the services in apples new browser. SEND TO NAVIGATOR!!! Opens chimera! Hmmm... maybe if a site dosen't load properly.

BTW first post!!!

[dabirdwell]

If the performance is not better than an iBook 800?

Are the networking etc. worth the expense for one who won't need a Superdrive?

[cheesypoof]

The services under the menu "Safari" then services then open url in navigator.

[RandomMacGuy]

Originally posted by cheesypoof
OMG!!!
Check out the services in apples new browser. SEND TO NAVIGATOR!!! Opens chimera! Hmmm... maybe if a site dosen't load properly.

BTW first post!!!

This post made my day. Thank you.

- RMG

(By the way, you are completely mistaken... but I initially thought this was a joke)

[artistry]

Originally posted by cheesypoof
The services under the menu "Safari" then services then open url in navigator.

That's interesting (I never look at Services but I expect they'll start being useful soon)

On my version, this option is greyed out and the keyboard shortcut doesn't work. Does it work for you? Maybe a quick debugging tool for Apple engineers?

[ddtlm]

dabirdwell:

Nope, I think the overall idea is that the 12" PB is not a good price/performance value compared to an iBook. However it is more stylish and has a few more bells and wistles, so I'm sure it'll sell fine.

[pyrotoaster]

Originally posted by dabirdwell

If the performance is not better than an iBook 800?

Are the networking etc. worth the expense for one who won't need a Superdrive?

You're forgetting about the fundamental difference: The Processor.

The iBook has a pokey old G3, the Powerbook has a G4, which is faster because of Altivec (the velocity engine).

I was considering buying an iBook (at $1300) until today. I'd rather save up an extra $500 (hello, ebay) and get a G4, because the processor is really that much better.

[pyrotoaster]

I also should have mentioned that I think the G3 will be obsolete technology to Apple in about a year and a half.
I really don't want to be using an iBook with obsolete technology in it.

[Thresher]

I don't think the iPod would benefit from a Firewire800 interface. I don't think that current 2.5" HDDs can transfer data fast enough to really take advantage of it. I could be wrong.

As for AirportExtreme, if the cards are the same form factor, wouldn't you be able to swap out an Airport card for one of the new ones?

[ddtlm]

pyrotoaster:

The iBook has a pokey old G3, the Powerbook has a G4, which is faster because of Altivec (the velocity engine).
The "pokey old G3" will certainly show the G4 it's taillights in a handful of tests. The G3's two biggest advantages over the G4 are it's 4-stage pipeline and it's 512k L2, and I would bet on those defeating the 66mhz higher clock and 33mhz faster memory system on just about everything non-AltiVec'ed.

[TRAUT]

I see a big hole in the iLife "suite". IDVD3 still requires a superdrive - NO Support for after market/stand alone DVD Drives. I sense there are many more MAC users without superdrives than with them.

Why limit the market, Steve?

Also, please tell me the cool music composing site Steve used to demo Safari. :confused:

[scem0]

nice job arn. Good expo even though safari isn't truly faster than
chimera.... not yet ;). I dont care who makes it though as long
as it works. ;) :D

[pyrotoaster]

Originally posted by ddtlm

The "pokey old G3" will certainly show the G4 it's taillights in a handful of tests. The G3's two biggest advantages over the G4 are it's 4-stage pipeline and it's 512k L2, and I would bet on those defeating the 66mhz higher clock and 33mhz faster memory system on just about everything non-AltiVec'ed.

I realized that was a weak argument in some areas shortly after I posted it, so I followed up with my thoughts on the remaining life in the G3.
We won't see anything with a G3 in it after the iBooks get G4s, but I think this latest 12" PB is our assurance that the iBook will stick with G3s for the next year.
I'm guessing Apple has totally phased out the G3 in about a year and a half, and I don't want to own "obsolete" technology (I had a 400 MHz G3 iMac until six months ago).

[Rajj]

Originally posted by drastik


You don't seem to get the idea of an ultra-portable. Many business users need only the most basic funtions. What they need is small and light an durable. As far as this class of notebooks goes, this one is quicker, smaller, lighter and cheaper than the competition (sony, mainly.) People drop thousands on these things because they are tiny, not for DVI out and PMCIA cards. What do you need a card lot for on the thing. It has built in ethernet and modem, airport for wireless, bluetooth built in. all the ocnnections you could want. What do you need a card for?

I concur with you about it has the edge on Sony in the ultraportable area, but it still needs a PCMCIA slot for mobile wireless cards, like to use with your cellular phone provider and for Firewire 800 expansion!!!

[dabirdwell]

So I still don't know if the lack of L3 cache and less L2 cache make this a less effective machine overall. I won't be editing video or anything.

But wireless means a lot...

[Hemingray]

Originally posted by ddtlm
An 867mhz no-L3 G4 is not faster in all situations than a 512k G3 at 800mhz. A GF4Go-420 is probably slower than a Radeon 7500 Mobility, although the clock rates can vary. The DDR is worthless, no performance edge, no higher capacity, so basically it's irrelevant.

Really, not much special about the 12" PB except that Apple can sell them at a higher price than iBooks. :) I would still prefer a iBook and it's cool-running G3.

I am aware of some of the G3's advantages, however for altivec there's just no comparison, and being able to use Photoshop on the go is a must for me and a lot of other PowerBook users. As for the graphics comparison, I'll just have to wait and see the benchmarks, but I'd be willing to bet that the GF4Go 420 is comparable if not marginally better than the iBook's Radeon Mobility. I did say that the DDR was "fake", but it's still faster than the iBook's bus regardless.

If you guys want to think it's just a souped-up aluminum iBook with a G4 and built-in Bluetooth, that's fine, but I think they put a bit more effort into it than that. The iBook doesn't have a third mid-range speaker or a line-in on the iBooks... or the availability of a SuperDrive for that matter... but even if it WAS just that... it's worth the extra $350.

(And FYI to firestarter, I was comparing the 800MHz 12.1" iBook model, that's the closest comparable clock speed.)

[yzedf]

Originally posted by pyrotoaster


I realized that was a weak argument in some areas shortly after I posted it, so I followed up with my thoughts on the remaining life in the G3.
We won't see anything with a G3 in it after the iBooks get G4s, but I think this latest 12" PB is our assurance that the iBook will stick with G3s for the next year.
I'm guessing Apple has totally phased out the G3 in about a year and a half, and I don't want to own "obsolete" technology (I had a 400 MHz G3 iMac until six months ago).

Just a reminder that the G4 is obsolete also. Has been for some time now. Hence all the drooling over the "new" IBM chip...

[pyrotoaster]

I like the 12" Powerbook.
It is Apple's answer to the desire for a G4 iBook.

[shine]

So now either iBook needs to be even cheaper or it need to be even smaller ...

I love small notebooks :D

[Future Man]

I really couldn't believe the volume of new stuff at the keynote. It just kept coming. I almost fell out of my chair when he announced
Safari like halfway through the show. I thought for sure that Apple would leave that market to M$. Hell NO! SJ simply refuses to take it up the arse from Gates and fellow minions of the darkside.
Kudos Steve, one day you will find that perfect stone and the right trajectory to take down Goliath.
I'm a "poweruser" (digital video editor) so I'm not that concerned with the new laptops. I know they can run FCP and AE but their expandability is nil for internal storage options, Sound cards, and video cards and I really can't imagine a day when I bring a client in at $75 bux an hour to watch me edit on a portable.
I am excited that FW800 is finally here. I bet it and it's next generations will begin to give fibre channel (which is currently cost prohibitive for small boutiques like mine) a run for its money.
iDVD 3's preprogrammed templates look AWESOME! Those will save me a lot of time one day.
I have been using Safari all day, and while I love it, it does have some very serious bugs. I can't even access my hotmail accounts with it?! Of course Apple got a bug report from me about 2 minutes after the keynote ended, but it will probably be a few weeks until a new ver. comes around.
In closing I'll say that there was a lot of hollow hype and repackaging in these announcements, but hell, THAT?S WHAT I WATCH THE THING FOR! Jobs could sell me a glass of saltwater on the shores of the Dead Sea, AND I WOULD LOVE EVERY SIP!
I can't get enough of this guy. I'm not religious, but one day I will make a pilgrimage to one of these things. Cheers to the greatest two hours of entertainment since, well the last keynote in NY. Thanks Apple! Keep up the fine work!

P.S. I am going to atttach a screenshot of what happens when I try to access hotmail, just to make sure I'm not the only one getting it. Cheers!

[cheesypoof]

Originally posted by artistry


That's interesting (I never look at Services but I expect they'll start being useful soon)

On my version, this option is greyed out and the keyboard shortcut doesn't work. Does it work for you? Maybe a quick debugging tool for Apple engineers?

Try highlighting something, anything. It will then open in chimera the url you are at not try to go to what you have highlighted.

[Future Man]

Sorry, I messed up posting it in my original message. But this is what i get when trying to log into hotmail using Safari.

[D*I*S_Frontman]

Regarding the 17" AlBook:

1. Does it actually have TWO (2) Firewire busses, one for 800, the other for 400mps, or merely two ports on the same bus? For those people wanting to do FW RAID on the cheap, that is important--if they are on separate busses, you can stripe two FW drives using nothing more than OS X's disk utility for better throughput during video work. If not, you really need a second FW bus, right?

2. in a unit of that size, is it now more realistic to anticipate a DUAL processor version in the not-too-distant future? That would be a monster. Again, as many have postulated here, the 2nd processor could be activated only when plugged in to AC if battery power was the prohibiting factor. TRUE desktop replacement for EVERYONE then...

Thanks, MacRumors. You guys nailed it. I am pulling links to ThinkSecret and SpyMac off of my browser as I send this...!

[artistry]

I noticed that when he was talking about the Apple stores Steve gave the number of visitors in terms of being worth 'X number of expos'.

Was this a way of justifying reducing the amount of money spent on exhibiting at expos and waving goodbye to the annual keynote event?

[Lepton]

Originally posted by artistry


I miss the status bar



There is a status bar, turn it on in the View menu. And it does something unique - it tells you if a link is going to open in a new window!

[MacKid]

Originally posted by Doctor Q
Good work MacRumors! And good work Steve Jobs. What a great presenter he is. He even got applause for the old "A" post office story.

When talking about the 17" PowerBook, he said something like "It's the most advanced product made on the planet." I notice that he didn't say which planet.

The "airplane passenger" TV ad for the PowerBooks is truly wonderful.

Now, the part that worries me: If iLife is free, Safari is free, Final Cut Express and Keynote are cheap, and there was no announcement of new iMacs, new Power Macs, new displays, new Apple Store locations, etc., then how is Apple going to keep the money flowing in? Can they really rely on the two PowerBooks as the only addition to their income stream? They'd have to sell an awful lot of Burton snowboarding jackets otherwise.

P.S. Steve said he checked out some rumor sites. I can't imagine he didn't include this one. So Hi, Steve!

Actually, iLife is not free ($49.95).;)

[artistry]

Originally posted by Lepton


There is a status bar, turn it on in the View menu. And it does something unique - it tells you if a link is going to open in a new window!

Spotted that - rather nice. And it stopped me worrying that Safari would kill any site I developed that had a (non-ad) pop-up window in it. Though I try to avoid that wherever possible, I tend to use them in development, sending Javascript variables to them etc.

[shine]

Originally posted by MacKid


Actually, iLife is not free ($49.95).;) Actually it is free, only iDVD is not "free", but it'll come with any Mac with superdrive anyway.

[pyrotoaster]

Thanks to anyone who posted about getting the status bar back, I don't miss it, but I like being able to tell if a page opens in a new window.

I'm really surprised that SJ didn't mention features like that and the intant keyboard shortcuts for your toolbar favorites when he demonstrated Safari.

BTW, did anyone else notice that Safari was in SJ's dock from the begining of the keynote? (third from the left, including Finder) I spent the first hour trying to figure out what it was (although I sort of assumed it might be a browser).

[yosoyjay]

Originally posted by Mr.Hey


Funny.......I could resize the window with out audio-n-video being cut-off. I would grab the window and move it around my entire desktop and not a single frame drop.

Lucky for you, I couldn't get a good frame rate at all. I streamed some other clips from ifilm during the speech, which worked fine, and it had absolutely no effect on the Jobs slide show.

[blueBomber]

I ordered one, should be getting it soon... let's see my friends wail on me for switching now...

[pyrotoaster]

I was fortunate enough to find time to run off to my local Apple Store (Woodfield), which has one of those cool screens in back, to watch the keynote.

I've watched keynotes over Quicktime before, and couldn't believe how much better it was to see it in-store.

[yosoyjay]

Originally posted by Future Man
Sorry, I messed up posting it in my original message. But this is what i get when trying to log into hotmail using Safari.

I had that problem the first two times I tried to access Hotmail, I was kind of looking for sites that wouldn't work properly so I could send in a bug report. Then it worked the third time. Now it doesn't... wait. Third times a charm... Very interesting.

[Hawthorne]

Originally posted by TRAUT
I see a big hole in the iLife "suite". IDVD3 still requires a superdrive - NO Support for after market/stand alone DVD Drives. I sense there are many more MAC users without superdrives than with them.

Why limit the market, Steve?

Also, please tell me the cool music composing site Steve used to demo Safari. :confused:

1. IIRC, it has something to with the DVD licensing fees. But that may just be the post-Keynote high that's talkin'.

2. Looplab.com. But it looks like their site's been crushed under the load of keynote viewers (now there's some server logs I'd like to see...) .:D

[eallison]

A couple of things pertinant to the discussion that I learned while at MacWorld today:

One, the new 12" PowerBook is smaller than the iBook, by about half an inch on each side, and about an eighth of an inch thinner. When you see the two side-by-side (another attendee talked the apple guy into bring an iBook over to the pb display) the iBook looks a lot bigger, moreso than I would have thought from looking at the specs. And it's lighter by a bit, too. Also, the fit and finish is like a Lexus compared to a Toyota Corolla, not bad in either case, but you can feel the quality in the PowerBook.

Also, I got to talk to one of the Safari managers for a while. I asked him about tabbed browsing and he said that they've talked about it a lot, and thought about it, and that we can submit feedback about it if we'd like. He said they want to make page rendering so blisteringly fast that there's no need for tabs. And that they intend the "snapback" function to take on the functionality of following a link into a new tab for a while, and then going back to the original page. They're thinking that those two together (speed, snapback) will provide an alternative way of interacting with web pages that they thinks better. But like I said, they're open to feedback. I personally don't use tabs, I prefer to cycle through windows with cmd-~

Two more things to note - the metal appearance is because they didn't like the way the normal windows interacted with the web page and looked like part of the content. The metal provides more a definite distinction. There was a developer (not apple, an attendee) standing next to me having fits about it. Also, all the widgets are Cocoa - which seals the deal against Chimera for me, because I can actually type this reply and not go insane waiting for letters to appear on the screen.

Oh, and one more thing... :-) I overheard another Apple developer saying that they hadn't really focused on optimizing the rendering for speed yet! Sweet-O.

[joe_camel_jr]

is the burton amp jackets only available in usa??
i cant find it in uk applestore site....

[pyrotoaster]

eallison, thanks for that post about the new PB and Safari. I liked both, and now I really like them. :D

[jayscheuerle]

It doesn't seem to me that anyone here using the word actually knows what it means (hint: It isn't synonymous with "old")...

[Tariq]

it doesn't seem to me that anyone here using the word actually knows what it means (hint: It isn't synonymous with "old")...

Lets see, let me think back to the 20th century. I think the year was 1999 and Apple Computer released their Powermac with a G4 processor. It's now the 21st century and 4 years later. I thik in computer terms that easily qualifies as "old"! Tariq

[pyrotoaster]

I didn't mean "old" when I said that the G3 would be obsolete to Apple in a year and a half. The G3 is old now.
When I said obsolete I meant "out of the picture."

[nickgold]

Originally posted by jayscheuerle
It doesn't seem to me that anyone here using the word actually knows what it means (hint: It isn't synonymous with "old")...

All I know is that a few years ago, when I started to get into digital audio and stuff, Blue and White G3 towers running 350, 400 MHz were pretty bad arse. And you know what? They still do all the stuff they used to do.

Computers are at the point where raw power is not being equalled by exciting things to do with that power. Apple is working on actually bringing out neat stuff to do with your computer -- not just focusing on raw specs.

I SOOOO want a 12" PowerBook......

[lmalave]

Originally posted by pyrotoaster
What a great keynote!

One thing that I really liked was the lack of items with "i" in the title.
It works really well for the key iApps, and small things like iCal and iSync, but I think we would all be a little pissed if Apple had called Safari anything with "i" in the name.

Although Safari is a strange name...
Anyway, I'm using Safari right now, and I love it. I miss Chimera's tabbed browsing, but I'm loving everything else about this thing.
For those who don't believe Steve, it really is faster, and way better than Internet Explorer.

Way to go Apple! :D

I dunno, Safari is significantly slower for me than Chimera. Maybe because I had the latest build with HTTP Pipelining and all that mumbo jumbo?

[dgallina]

Regarding Safari's Snapback feature and speed replacing the functionality of tabbed browsing:

Nope, not going to happen IMHO. No chance.

1) Snapback isn't always very smart about what the root page should be. it works reasonably well on simple sites but gets confused on many web forums, for example.

2) The big one: Snapback / speed don't make up for saving multiple tabs. On recent releases of Mozilla / Chimera I can save an whole pile of web sites I regularly visit in one tab set. A single click on the bookmark bar loads all of these in tabs. Reading the same sites on a browser without tabs takes multiple (slow) uses of the bookmark menus and individual browsing.

Regards,
Diego

[vniow]

Originally posted by eallison
He said they want to make page rendering so blisteringly fast that there's no need for tabs.


I have to disagree with their logic on that.

The resason I use tabs is not because page rendering is slow, it's because it's a helluva lot more convienent.

I'd much rather have one window open with 10 tabs rather than 10 windows open with one tab each, it's much easier to navigate with tabs than it is with seperate windows.

I tried Opera back when if first came out with tabs and the main reason why I used it more than IE at the time was not because it was faster (it wasn't) but because of tabs.

Like I said before, it's so much easier and more productive to manage a group of tabs tather than a group of seperate windows, especially when you have little screen space to begin with.

[Tariq]

I was refering to the reply earlier which mentioned that the G4 is obsolete. Of course its not or it would not still be in use BUT it is certainly "old" tech. and within a years time everyone with a G3 or G4 can start counting the days when they will be forced into upgrading to a machine with the new IBM chip for compatibility reasons. Sort of a scarry time to invest in Apple hardware right now UNLESS you have to. just my 2 cents worth though. Tariq

[DakotaGuy]

Originally posted by Tariq
I was refering to the reply earlier which mentioned that the G4 is obsolete. Of course its not or it would not still be in use BUT it is certainly "old" tech. and within a years time everyone with a G3 or G4 can start counting the days when they will be forced into upgrading to a machine with the new IBM chip for compatibility reasons. Sort of a scarry time to invest in Apple hardware right now UNLESS you have to. just my 2 cents worth though. Tariq

Huh...I thought that was one advantage of the PowerPC 970. Compatibility will be good with the PowerPC G3 and G4. My guess is the OS will be designed for 32 and 64bit PowerPC processors well into the future. There will become a point when you can no longer upgrade the software on a G3 or G4 machine, but that would be well into the future. There will also be a point when you will no longer be able to run Windows on a Celeron, PII, PIII or even PIV. I don't understand your point.

[giovanni]

well of course ! Apple has no choice since it ain't got any hardware for desktops, so it is focusing on the portables where factors other than processing speed are also very important. SJ is simply telling us not to expect any serious change in the powermacs. So, next year and next year only if all goes well, he'll be able to say this is the year of the desktop. Like someone noted earlier, we have to really hope that the new laptops will do very well, so Apple will be able to offset tumbling sales on the desktop side. However it should be also noted that a number of professionals will be lost to the dark side. Not so good.

Could someone tell me that I am wrong - and it seems so obvious to me.

[bentmywookie]

After the keynote I was all high on the 12" powerbook, but now that I think about it and go through some of the posts, I think it is really not that great.

Cache is just too damn important to cut back on it for this model, especially giving it less than the ibook!! Some people have posted that they think the iBook will be faster in the end, I am in total agreement there. The iBook's G3 smokes in non-altivec, and the 512kb cache is really going to help it in competing with the 12" in altivec. What a bummer - and I think not putting a 32mb mobility 9000 (or at least a 7500) was a bad choice. So this is the G4 iBook, but a little more crippled than I would have liked. I love the inclusion of bluetooth and 802.11g and the fact that you can get a superdrive, but do those outweigh the (probably) performance loss to the iBook because of the cache? I was ready to go order one right away after the keynote, but now I am going to wait for some reviews or benchmarks that compare it to the iBook 800. (and why no firewire 800??)

As for the 17 incher, I think it's a great computer. A little too big for my preference, but otherwise, from the firewire 800 to bluetooth to keyboard illumination to airport extreme - it is just hot. Why in friggin hell did apple not use the Mobility 9000 though, I don't remember whether it was extremetech or anandtech or whomever that tested the 420go, 440go, 460go, mob 7500 and 9000 - but I believe the 9000 came out above all of them except for the 460 plus it had lower power consumption. Stupid choice in my opinion but oh well. Anyone have ideas why they would have done that?

But to end on a good note, I must say between the integration of the iApps, Safari and Keynote, I was VERY impressed. The keynote just proved to me that Apple is wonderful when it comes to software. This area of the keynote was the best part for me.

I'm sure apple's just trying to do the best it can with the crappy hand it's been dealt hardware wise, but unless tests prove otherwise, that 12" powerbook does not really seem worth it to me - I would have gladly ponyed up the dough for a 1mb L3 cache.


Just curious if anyone has any info on this - are mobile versions of the 970s expected to come around the same time as the desktop versions? It would suck to have to have only G4 laptops to look forward to for the next year and a half or so.

[lmalave]

Originally posted by edvniow
Does anyone know if the old Airport slot can handle the amount of bandwith needed for Airport Extreme?

The slot can definitely handle it (it's basically just a modified PCMCIA slot, right?), but I've read a couple posts that the machine has to be "Airport Extreme Ready" for it to work. I don't get it myself...is the antenna different?

Oh well, it's not like I'd really have any use for 54Mbps anyway. The only situation that I can think of where that would even be useful would be to copy massive files between machines wirelessly.

[dabirdwell]

It costs about $250 more to get the 12" PowerBook than the 12" iBook, if you get Max RAM, Max hard drive, Airport card and Base station.

Worth it?

[matttichenor]

Good for you... Most forumers wouldm't admit to this... it takes a big man.


And realize I was right there with you during those crappy Keynotes of past.


m


"OK Steve. You got me. I'm currently enjoying this delicious foot in my mouth. I'm the guy who said this Macworld would be boring. I was wrong. The iApps are great- iDVD is sweet- Keynote is sweet- Safari is sweet- Final Cut Express is sweet- Firewire 800 is sweet- Airport Extreme is sweet- 17 powerbook is super sweet- 12 powerbook is good- All told, a very good Macworld. But I was there Steve when Jon Rubenstein rambled on for 30 minutes about pipeline stages. I witnessed firsthand "ten developers for OSX". I felt the sting of .Mac in person. I was hurt Steve. I actually cried. But not today- today you made me believe in the magic again. Today you reminded me why I use a Mac- it's not because they're the fastest, or the cheapest- they're just the best. And Apple really does do things for this industry that Dell, and Gateway, and Microsoft can never do- even with their piles and piles of money, thoughtful computer design and function escape them. So, I'm sorry Steve. Nice job."

[Tariq]

Sorry for the confusion. From what I have read about the new IBM chip, you are correct about backward compatibility But actual useability is another thing all together. My 1999 Lombard PowerBook(which I love and has served me well) is "compatible" with OS X but hardly useable as an OS 9 replacement on that machine for instance(mostly due to sloww graphics when Apple refused to offer Graphics Acceleration for my macnine in OS X.) But, four years is a long time in computer years so I can't complain too much. My fear in buying a new machine today would be that wihin one year this same sort of scenario could play out with New OS X updates only taking "full" advantage of the IBM 64 bit with the "compatible" older G4 machines running at half speed. Given that the G4 is really in its twilight year, I think this scenario is very possible.

[cathjock]

wow is all i can say

i am using safari right now: it is much faster than internet explorer

i am on a rather slow t1 network at school- with internet explorer, it takes 25 seconds to load the New York Times website- with safari, it only takes 11 seconds!

safari starts up in about one second (tibook 500mhz) and ie takes about 5 seconds

i also get much faster download rates (15-30kbps compared to 1-10kbps)

the only downside: when i tried to watch a news clip on msnbc.com (which uses windows media player), the viewing window opened as normal but i recieved and error message saying that this file type is not supported (the message did go on to say that the file could be opened with the windows media player program, and when i clicked "ok", wmp opened up and the video played as normal). even though the video played in the end, it would be nice if apple would support the wmp plug-in. i've reported this lack of support to apple using the clever 'bug button'- i'll have to see what they say

[iShater]

Originally posted by bentmywookie
After the keynote I was all high on the 12" powerbook, but now that I think about it and go through some of the posts, I think it is really not that great.

Look at the bright side, it is still at least $200 cheaper than the Dell x200 (which is an ultraportable, so you have to add in the the base price), has better components, cheaper despite Dells $150 instant rebate (temp I guess), and can't be called "slower" since the x200 has a PIII 800Mhz chip.

I say we have a decent contender for the top spot!

Personally I was hoping for a super-slim laptop this MW, .5" and a docking station

[pyrotoaster]

I don't know who said the G4 was obsolete, but I didn't. I didn't even say the G3 was obsolete, yet.

The G4 is middle-aged, within the next year we'll see the PowerPC 970 replace it in Powermacs.
The G3 is old, within the next year and a half, I think we'll see Apple phase the processor out all together (maybe they'll still sell cheap old CRT iMacs). That's when the G3 will be (in my mind) obsolete.

The G4 has years of life ahead of it, as it will probably stick in iBooks for quite a while (kinda like the way the G3 has).

BTW, I'm really excited by the 12" Powerbook. It is way better than the iBook (that's my opinion, you're more than welcome to disagree). It's great to see Apple making a sub-notebook again.

[bentmywookie]

Originally posted by iShater


Look at the bright side, it is still at least $200 cheaper than the Dell x200 (which is an ultraportable, so you have to add in the the base price), has better components, cheaper despite Dells $150 instant rebate (temp I guess), and can't be called "slower" since the x200 has a PIII 800Mhz chip.

I say we have a decent contender for the top spot!

Personally I was hoping for a super-slim laptop this MW, .5" and a docking station


That is a very good point that I forgot to think of. This is a serious ultraportable contender (albeit it's over 4 lbs). I personally don't mind width. For me, weight is more important and it is definitely excellent at 4.5 lbs w/combo or dvd burner.

I guess I feel a little better now. I'm still going to wish upon wish for firewire 800, 1 mb L3, and a better graphics card in the next revision.

[matttichenor]

I can't believe this post:

"The 12 inch PB is great, but it will cannibalize iBook sales. The 17" PB is incredible ... but it is expensive and a product better suited to the desktop ... therefore it will compete with the 17 inch iMac."

If they sell a 12" G4 @ $1800 instead of any of the iBooks then they have created more revenue. If they sell the $3300 Powerbook G4 instead of a $2000 iMac then they make more money. That's the whole point.

Apple has done a nice job here of offering a decent ladder of products... as you pay more you get more.

The only place where there is debate is regarding the unrevised G3 iBook compared to the new 12" G4 Powerbook, but we will have to wait and see the benchmarks. Most likely it will be a draw and the extra cost can be racked up to aesthetics, extra features and boasting rights. Perhaps Apple went with the Nvidia Chip because it could have better Quartz Extreme Results. Who Knows?

I would say that the only problem area for Apple right now is in their struggling PowerMac sector. It just does not look good to have your flagship machine sitting at 1.25GHZ, Megahertz Myth or Not. I mean it's great that they are Dual Processors and everything, but how many customers realise that when they look at the specs, or really understand what that means. Here's hoping IBM can rescue this segment, and fast.

m

[noverflow]

APE (airport extreme) does require a computer with an APE port... read apples apge.. it is a totally different looking card.

System Requirements:

* Requires AirPort Extreme ready system. AirPort Extreme ready systems are those with mini-PCI support form factor. AirPort Extreme cards cannot be used in older AirPort card bays (PCMCIA form factor slot).

[erockerboy]

Originally posted by matttichenor
I would say that the only problem area for Apple right now is in their struggling PowerMac sector. It just does not look good to have your flagship machine sitting at 1.25GHZ, Megahertz Myth or Not. I mean it's great that they are Dual Processors and everything, but how many customers realise that when they look at the specs, or really understand what that means. Here's hoping IBM can rescue this segment, and fast.

m

AMEN!!! Agree 100%.

[matttichenor]

I would also like to quickly add my pleasure with today's announcements. Here's to Apple!!

Nice work with the iApps (iLife). Good pricing scheme too... makes sense, a lot of people would like to have the CD & Box and all that. This way Apple can give them that without losing money. Meanwhile the rest of us with High Speed can download for free, or, if we need iDVD (which looks great) we can pay the $50. I think a lot of us breathed a collective sigh of relief with this one.

Safari looks good as a Beta, Final Cut Express is a great idea, Keynote is cool, the 17" Powerbook is Awesome, and I like the little 12" Powerbook. I think it will probably sell well... I think some people underestimate the difference a form factor can make.

What we didn't get...

I would love to have seen iTunes 4 and iPod software updates with AAC along with more .Mac integration with the iApps. Was this overlooked, I can't believe Apple would play up this whole integration theme and then not integrate better with .Mac, seeing as it was such a huge deal this past year what with the questionable upgrade fees.

Furthermore... adding an Address Book to .Mac does not cut it for new features @ $100/year software... it needs to get better, it's an awesome set of tools, but it needs to get better if Apple wants new subscribers and to keep the current ones.

One last thing...


I was dying for an Apple Tablet... I think it would be such a great new device... imagine all of the things Apple would incorporate into it... oh well... one can dream can't he.

Thanks for reading my rant.


m

[lmalave]

Originally posted by noverflow
APE (airport extreme) does require a computer with an APE port... read apples apge.. it is a totally different looking card.

System Requirements:

* Requires AirPort Extreme ready system. AirPort Extreme ready systems are those with mini-PCI support form factor. AirPort Extreme cards cannot be used in older AirPort card bays (PCMCIA form factor slot).

Ah, so there's still hope! I predict they will eventually release a PCMCIA form factor Airport Extreme Card. I was thinking there might be some technical reason why they couldn't (antenna had to be different or something). So really this is nothing more than a case of Apple creating incentive for people to buy the new machines...

[rhfactor]

(I'm late to this thread... perhaps everything I have to say has been covered already...)

"Year of the Notebook"

"We want to replace Desktops with Laptops" is a fantastic goal, and combined with Airport Extreme wireless, Apple's got all the right stuff to redefine (again!) the way we use computing machines. For G4-MDD users, I think we'd also like this to be "The Year of Quiet Cooling" ...

With Apple's core business shifting from Media Pros to Digital Lifestyle Consumers (iLife, FCP Express), Wireless Portability (new Powerbooks, AirPort Extreme), and Business/Marketing Execs (Keynote -- looks like a fantastic new app that will blow away PowerPoint), are they saying goodbye to high-end desktop users?

We're looking now at the equivalent of 1984 with the intro of the first Mac (http://garamond.stanford.edu/mac/mouse0.html#images) ... It predicted and set the stage for what is now a way of life, a personal computer totally intergrated into work & home.

Yes, it will be truly exciting to take the 17" Powerbook on the road to edit a feature film, or mix a new CD on a mountain top. The question remains: For those Pros who need the expandability of extra hard drives, multiple cards, driving multiple displays, a desktop machine is still an important part of the way we work.

The current state of the art in Desktop machines on the Apple
Platform is the G4-MDD ... and there were no announcements at MacWorld SF that any new desktops are on their way -- though no doubt they are also in serious development, grappling probably with issues of which chip to push the speed revolution, as well as how to keep the faster machines quiet.

The question for me is: As Apple's focus moves away from the Pro user towards the Digital Lifestyle user and the Business user, will the G4 noise & audio hum issues get addressed? This may be the major fork in the road for us Pro Users who are relying on the G4-MDD for our livelihoods.

I applaud Apple's continued innovation -- it is remarkable! Let's get the G4's performing in such a way that they fulfill the awesome beauty of their external product design. For us G4-MDD pro users, I think we'd like for this to also be "The Year of Quiet Cooling" -- clearly the capability is there today.

As much as I am disappointed that the G4 issue was not discussed at beginning when Steve ran down some "Updates" on various issues, I don't find it strange at all that the G4 was not to be seen:

MacWorld, like any business hoopla, is about marketing a message. It seems clear to me by the content of the Keynote Message that Apple has made a strategic shift in where it puts its eggs.

I am not a businessman so i don't know the financial merits of business strategies. But it was clear to me this was not a fluke. Emphasis placed on more and more Apple Retail Stores (consumer friendly hands-on places), the effectiveness (so they say) of the Switch campaign (which is basically selling the idea "it just works" -- less hassles), on portability and on mass market software products that will lure users to the Mac OS platform.

At first glance it seems really smart... From what I hear, the profit
margins in desktop PCs as minimal, and Dell is increasingly owning that market. Even in all of our discussions at Apple's "G4 Usage" forum and at "G4noise.com", there is much talk of "where to next re SPEED and chips?" -- since Apple has hit
the end of the road with Motorola processors. So it seems like the marketing and product development people essentially said "screw trying to keep up with the desktop joneses, let's just make an all-out grab for the consumers who aren't techies, but love music, home movies, and sharing photos. They are going after the people "just living their lives" -- not professional high-end users.

Will this work? Ask a businessman. I don't know.

It seems smart given they are in a tough bind with the processor speed thing, and maybe they need 6 more months or a whole
year to really get the G5 out, with maybe an Intel processor... but
those are not just tech issues; those are business negotiation and licensing issues. So focus on the easy to use consumer products, and push push push the apps that ONLY RUN ON OS X.

But back to Desktops: I don't think they can walk away from the high-end media professional market. i think it's suicide. Even though one can edit a feature film using Final Cut Pro using their new 17" Powerbook on a plane or on a mountain top, you can't render complex effects and manage huge hard drives of data just with the laptop. A composer/musician could mix a track on a laptop, but running a whole production studio with one? Not likely.

So, RISK FACTOR.. The overall message from Steve Jobs was: (like Wizard of Oz) "Pay no attention to the Pro machines that we are not even displaying here. I want to show you all these things here which is our new aggressive growth strategy"... But by ignoring the pro crowd, is the presumption that loyalty is such that "well, they still can't get the Apps they want on Windows, so we've got them locked in to Mac for a year of so more, and by then maybe we'll have a whole new generation of processors" etc.


Richard Hoefer
Filmaker/Designer
San Francisco, CA
http://www.G4noise.com
dv@on101.com

[Doctor Q]

Has anyone tested Applescripting (http://www.apple.com/applescript/safari/) Safari yet? Or written some new scripts for it?

(Hmmm. How 'bout one that analyzes comments in a MacRumors forum and submits a thoughtful and well-stated reply automatically? Think of the time we'd all save!)

[matttichenor]

I wouldn't get too carried away with the feeling of Pro users being ignored by Apple. I believe that MWSF has never been a place where the pro line is the focus, and furthermore, a lot of "Pro Users" will be anxious to get their hands on this new laptop. In fact, in many cases it will be only the pro users who can justify purchasing a $3300 computer.

Furthermore, these laptops, while definately incapable of true internal expandability, offer a great deal of external expansion. It is becoming more an more apparant that one of these supercharged powerbooks can serve the needs of many pro users. I too am a proffesional filmmaker, and I can see great value not just in the portability of these new products, but also in their versatility.

Through the use of Firewire, and now Firewire 800, you will see more and more Porffesional add ons developed for these machines. High speed, high capacity, low cost storage and Disk Arrays, High speed, high bandwidth I/O for Digital Audio & Video. Just because these machines are laptops does not mean that they will not perform well as a desktop system. When you are done in the studio, pack it up and hit the road. Capture & Cut on set, streamline your process, use the capabilites as an advantage, that's the beauty of this new laptop, it's versatility.

I agree with you, Apple needs to innovate to keep their Pro Powermacs competiitve and worthy of their price tags. Hopefully they will receive some help soon from IBM, or as you suggest Intel or AMD. These Powermacs need to become workhorses, capable of crunching numbers far beyond their current standards. Apple needs to design Powermacs that make even the staunchist of Windows Power Users green with envy.

I am positive we will see upgrades and revisions to the pro line by the end of February. Speed bumps, Firewire 800, Airport Extreme & who knows what else. FCP 4, DVD Studio 2, Cinema Tools 2?

But all this said, we cannot criticize the company for creating other tools that blow the socks off the competition. Perhaps you take Mr. Jobs' comments to close to heart... while it may be the year that the laptop grows up, that doesn't necessarily mean Apple will abandon the idea of creating powerful Pro Desktops capable of any pro application you can throw at it.

Remember also, Apple has just recently introduced the XServe, a whole new powerful hardware category which is aimed squarely at the Proffesional / Business marketplace. This new device has received such rave reviews that I find it hard to complain of their focus on Business and the Pro Market.

I do hope they remedy the MMD Noise issue, and I do hope they come storming back in the desktop market, sooner rather than later. But until that happens I am happy that they are also producing wonderful new devices, for the pro and the consumer, that continue to set the benchmark for computers everywhere.


m

[jshep]

Safari,
Thanks Steve, now I can finally say I'm Microsoft Free!!!!

I'm so happy to stick IE in the trash where it belongs.....

Thanks Again

[spikeovsky]

Originally posted by Tom800
Hey I remember lusting after a hard disk when I ran everything from two floppies on an Atari way back when! Then when i got one - 120Mb, it was the ****!


Hard Drive??? 120 Megs??? Luxury!
Now *I* remember when I got my external double-density floppy drive for my Mac Plus - before that, if a program couldn't fit on one diskette, it would take ages to load - I had sit there waiting for it to read data off one diskette, then eject it and ask me for the second one, then eject that and ask me for the first and so on. I can still remember sound of a Mac Plus ejecting a diskette - it haunts my dreams.

This is sounding rather like "Four Yorkshiremen", though the guy with the 8088 beats me - my first computer was the Plus, may it rest in peace. I got it confused with a 220 volt model I got when my school was throwing it out, and plugged it into a 220 Volt outlet. It ran fine for about 5 minutes until I heard a bang and smoke started pouring out the sides. That was a bad day :(.

-spikeovksy

[BWhaler]

I spent a good hour today at the Expo playing with the new 12 inch PowerBook.

I understand some of the comments that have been made after folks looked at the specs, but let me reassure you, this machine rocks. There were negligable latency and delays.

After kicking its tires pretty hard, I am seriously considering buying one. Unless you need a PCMCIA card, etc., I wouldn't sweat the specs.


--BWhaler

[Sedulous]

So far I've been thrilled with all of the new items introduced at MWSF.

Safari has worked flawlessly and unlike a few other poeople, I've had great experiences with it so far (including secured sites). One other thing no one has noted is that (I might have missed it... this is a huge string), yes, the name is cool... what do you see on a safari? Jaguars, maybe Panthers? I'm curious if Apple is switching from the iApp naming scheme to something related to their OS nicknmes.

The *only* two concerns I have about the new PB design is that the hinge on it is much like the iBook. Some of the iBooks I've used squeak and that gives a really "cheap" feel to it. Has anyone had the chance to check this out on the new AlBook? The other concern is that with the new deisgn, the ports are more exposed... and debris can get into these ports. They are certainly more accessible. They could have been concealed much the same way the Ti design did.