Vongo: Starz and Microsoft $9.95 per Month Unlimited Movies

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

The New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/03/business/media/03starz.html) is reporting on the announcement of a new unlimited movie download service from Starz Entertainment. The $9.95 a month subscription service called Vongo will allow users to download movies from the Internet for use on their computers, portable video players and TVs.

Starz had previously offered a movie download subscription through RealNetworks but has now switched over to Microsoft. Microsoft will be promoting Vongo in an upcoming release of its Windows Media Player software.

The service is available at Vongo.com (http://www.vongo.com/) and currently offers 800 movies for download at $9.95 a month. Users are allowed unlimited downloads. Movies are in Windows Media Player format, widescreen aspect ratio and approximately 600MB in size. (Example Specs: The Incredibles comes in a 700Kbps bitrate, Windows Media 9, 64Kbps stereo WMA9 audio, and 680x368 resolution.)

According to the article, Starz has not been able to work out an arrangement for Vongo to work on the iPod. As well, at present time the service does not work on Macs, but according to their website:

Vongo is currently PC based, but will soon be Mac compatible (really!)

This service was previously rumored (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2005/12/20051220093141.shtml).

[jrhone]

Interesting.....This looks like the Apple vs. Microsoft war will be quite heated this year and will be fought on many many levels. This in my opinion is a direct attack on iTunes and iPod Video....

[dlastmango]

I see this as M$ trying to beat Apple to something... Too bad apple service will actually work/succeed
JRHONE... sure post something basic to just be first...then go back and add to it... i see how you are... :0)

[kevinuaa]

This is great news...competition is always a good thing. This will push Apple to introduce something similiar. When the two compete, we as consumers win.

[kainjow]

Seriously, once Apple gets their own movie download service, I predict the death of the DVD :D

Now we just need to wait for the hackers to remove the encryption :)

No wonder their site requires Windows.. they use VBScript! :eek:

[chicagdan]

I went on Virtual PC and checked out the website -- what a totally crappy system. It doesn't work on the video iPod or the PSP, only devices that support some kind of MS portable Windows Media player. Dead on arrival.

The battle for portable video is coming down to PSP vs. iPod ... Sony has the better movie player but is clueless how to exploit it. But it still may win because it's ridiculously easy to rip a DVD and format it for PSP. (Equally true for iPod, but the first generation screen can't compete with PSP.) Once dual processors and huge HDs become the norm, everyone's going to be ripping their DVDs and putting time shifted TV onto PSPs and iPods and Hollywood is going to be in full panic.

So rip any DVD you want and keep it forever or pay $9.99 a month, buy an awful dedicated Windows Media player and watch crappy Starz movies. Easy choice. Let's see if Apple can come up with a better third option.

EDIT: The NY Times story notes that Starz will offer the same content to Sony Connect, which means it will be available for PSP in another manner. Sony Connect is such an awful music service, I can't imagine that it's video offerings are going to be any better. I'm tempted to say that a company so big with so many smart people has to get something right some day, but given the horrible and expensive UMD format, the incredibly expensive and unwatchable LocationFree player and the user unfriendly way videos are saved on the PSP, I think BYO content is Sony's best option.

[kainjow]

In Safari, if you change your user agent (via Debug menu) to Windows MSIE 6, you can view the page here: http://www.vongo.com/vongoweb/pages/homePage.jsp?hostVar= (Click on Step 2 then vongo.com)

[mduser63]

This is great news...competition is always a good thing. This will push Apple to introduce something similiar. When the two compete, we as consumers win.

I agree. If it starts to gain significant momentum, Apple will have to compete and will do something (hopefully) better. Of course if Vongo (or another site) works well and is Mac compatible, I'll use it. It's not like I think Apple is the only company that can do anything right.

I went to the site and put my email in to be notified when a Mac version is ready. I figure that will help tell them that Mac support is important.

[savar]

No wonder their site requires Windows.. they use VBScript! :eek:

Where do they get these names? Vongo? WTF is that?

An iPod version is never coming, let's be honest. I doubt the mac version will even make it. (Unless they introduce a new IE that is required to run it.)

But if people crack the DRM on this like they did with Napster, I would definitely sign up and download a bunch of movies non-stop for a couple months.

[Lacero]

Without the iPod, Vongo will fail, most likely. Ease of use will be very important, as well as portability of the video downloads.

I'd like to see something like this offered by Apple, since they have the foundation in place to make this happen.

[narco]

Where do they get these names? Vongo? WTF is that?

An iPod version is never coming, let's be honest. I doubt the mac version will even make it. (Unless they introduce a new IE that is required to run it.)

But if people crack the DRM on this like they did with Napster, I would definitely sign up and download a bunch of movies non-stop for a couple months.

I'm assuming Vongo means Video on the go. V=video, on, go. Still stupid.

Fishes,
narco.

[arn]

overall, specs and pricing are impressive.

arn

[virus1]

overall, specs and pricing are impressive.

arn
no kidding...

i wonder how they pulled that off.. with prices like that, it looks like apple may be able to lower the price of thier hypothetical itunes movie store to $10 a movie..

sweet..:cool:

[miradu]

resolutions of the incredibles file is 680x384.. native dvd resolution is 720x480, so this is not much worse in raw resolution than a dvd.. Sound is much worse.. it will be interesting to see how the WM9 compression compares to MPEG2. This is higher quality probs than normal cable tv, which at widescreen is no more than 640x400.

[After G]

Actually, one can do this with cable and an EyeTV. Just buy an EyeTV instead of a Windows Media player, and you can get movies just like that, transportable to any device. Only costs $150 or so as well, no monthly fees, except for the cable bill, which you probably already pay for already if you have cable.

[Phat_Pat]

now will this work on my 5.1 dolby digital surround sound and 50" widescreen? No?

i want the whole expreence of a movie.. not a dumbed down version

[Object-X]

This says it all...

[Doctor Q]

I doubt the mac version will even make it. (Unless they introduce a new IE that is required to run it.)Why couldn't they issue a player for Mac anytime they want, with any DRM system they want? It's only playing back on an iPod that would require a deal with Apple. Or am I missing something obvious? :confused:

[arn]

bad news for Apple... at least with these movies

Several years ago, when Starz renewed its long-term contracts with studios, including those owned by Sony and the Walt Disney Company, to put movies on its cable channels, it bought the rights to use them on the Internet as well. This means that other digital services cannot offer these movies in rental or subscription services during the period covered by the Starz contract.



This ironically seems to include Pixar's movies done with Disney it seems.

[walkingmac]

First off the starting line, but without any real forethought and/or plan for the future. Props to them for getting it started (I don't know what is holding Apple back) but thats about it. I personally never liked WMP and now that M$ has basically said SCREW YOU to the Apple community by not releasing new versions of their software for the mac and essentially locking them out of third-party offerings because they decided to use the proprietary systems. Maybe it's just my lack of knowledge for the format, but can you even convert those WMP format files to DVD? Surely their is some sort of DRM on these that would inhibit that, until the hackers get involved of course. I know people download movies via P2P all the time and watch them on their computers, but thats not the best, plus there are too few people who have their computers connected to their TV's for movie watching. IDK, I think I would have to go over the rules of use and all that to see how the system works, but I am sure it is not a pleasant arrangement. To me, the thing that needs to happen is a video download service where you can purchase a movie in digital format at DVD quality. Once you have downloaded it, you can of course watch it on your computer or burn it onto a DVD (in limited quantities, 1-3 I think) with complete menus that are included in the download. Additionally, move it to a portable video player like a laptop or Video iPod or alike and so on. All of these an be done with todays current technologies and DRM schemes. The other thing that needs to be done right is to get your computer in to the living room and on your TV that makes sense. Apple is obviously working on that with the initial release of Front Row, but that is just for starters. I left off 'rent' movies from this service, but that could work as well, just makes things a but messier IMHO. Maybe it's just me, but I like to own the media I enjoy and don't like the idea of having to pay to keep it. It's like the Napster Music Service approach, collect your music but be sure to pay us or we will take our ball back and go home. Once Apple has theirs up and running thats when things will get interesting. Not to mention as Apple continues to develop into the living room and we see Mac Mini's as common place in entertainment systems and such, thats when these types of services will take off, when there is a legitimate market and established market. The key there is you need the hardware to work with the software and the equipment. Apple is poised well, they just need to bring it to market and out of the labs. :D

[chicagdan]

bad news for Apple... at least with these movies


Right, which is why Apple has been so aggressive on the TV side, not movies. Just look at the iPod Video -- it's a device made for TV, not movies. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple skips movies for now and pushes to be the time shifting TV king instead.

[hubristol]

Seriously, once Apple gets their own movie download service, I predict the death of the DVD :D


I dunno about that. I think most people like to own something tangible...at least I know I do.

[Lacero]

Interesting.....This looks like the Apple vs. Microsoft war will be quite heated this year and will be fought on many many levels. This in my opinion is a direct attack on iTunes and iPod Video....
If PlaysForSure is any indication of Microsoft's pre-emptive strike, Apple has nothing to worry about. :D

Here's to the Crazy Ones http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=35452 (http://www.uriah.com/apple-qt/movies/think-different.mov)

[miradu]

Ok.. So I bit the bullet, and downloaded it to my dell and paid the $10. I rented the incredibles like Arn did.

It's ****tastic. Honestly, the quality is worse that most divx rips. Huge color banding, tons of artifacts, poor frame rate. I opened up frontrow's full streaming trailers, and had my family compare two computer side by side with me.. Frontrow's instant on streaming fullscreen trailers, handsdown beat out the paid for fullscreen downloaded movie. Apple defs has the technological advantage to deliver content. The player is also very slow at launching.

That said, $10 for a ton of movies ain't that bad. I may actually keep it, though not to watch on my HDTV, but more because torrents are blocked at my school.

[chicagdan]

I dunno about that. I think most people like to own something tangible...at least I know I do.

Right. I really don't see what's so great about this service. I have Starz on Demand for my HDTV cable, I can watch any of these movies right now in HD anyway ... why would I want to watch them on my PC for additional cost? And if I wanted to put the movie on PSP or video iPod, I could just schedule one of the 10 million Starz channels, copy it on EyeTV and have it for as long as I want. People who have TiVo can do the same and if I wanted to get ubergeeky I could run a firewire cable from my HD DVR to my Mac and record any HD program I wanted in high def by using the DVHS script.

I'm already paying $20 a month for NetFlix, another $12 for Sirius, $100 for cable ... I'm sick of companies charging me for a basket of services I don't use.

[ArizonaKid]

Let me first say that I am currently using the service. Rather than write a comment about something I never tried, I decided to get on my PC Notebook and subscribed to the service.

So far...I am impressed by the interface. It has a very simple interface that is easy to navigate. The movie selections are good, and initially at 9.95 the price seems fair to good. I am finding most of the great movies I want to watch. Additionally, I am a big fan of STARS. They allow you to have streaming access to their network which constantly shows big movies. The quality is very good.

I have not yet connected up a PC to my home entertainment system; however, I expect that I won't be overly impressed by the quality. I expect it to be just shy of DVD quality based on the settings it provides.

Overall, for my PC Notebook this seems to be a solid service. VERY HAPPY and IMPRESSED. This shows to have great promise.

It's good that Apple is getting competition. Typically, limited choices aren't good for the customer...typically. There are situations, like the iPod, where a product is so good it just doesn't have much competition.

Of course there should be Apple fans that will hate anything MS, but such fans are always predictable with there bias opinions.

[chicagdan]

Rather than write a comment about something I never tried, I decided to get on my PC Notebook and subscribed to the service.


Yeah, I've used that rationale with dozens of porn sites through the years. They all seemed like a good buy for the first 30 seconds.

[ArizonaKid]

Yeah, I've used that rationale with dozens of porn sites through the years. They all seemed like a good buy for the first 30 seconds.

Well...these are movies I can actually sit through and watch.

Typically I don't last very long on porn sites...as 30 seconds of visual is all that is often required.

[narco]

I'm already paying $20 a month for NetFlix, another $12 for Sirius, $100 for cable ... I'm sick of companies charging me for a basket of services I don't use.

I have Netflix also, and I couldn't see switching to a service like Vongo. Not sure how this new service handles all the DVD extras and such, but I definitely get that with Netflix -- plus I can just pop it into my DVD player instead of downloading it, transferring it to a portable player, hooking it up to my TV and then play it at a (slightly) lower resolution and without surround sound? Pshhyeah.

Fishes,
narco.

[starwxrwx]

vongo, vingle... whats next? sounds terrible

that said, I think movie subscription sites will be (relatively) more popular than music subscription sites versus their download-to-own versions because you generally only watch a movie once

[chicagdan]

I have Netflix also, and I couldn't see switching to a service like Vongo. Not sure how this new service handles all the DVD extras and such, but I definitely get that with Netflix -- plus I can just pop it into my DVD player instead of downloading it, transferring it to a portable player, hooking it up to my TV and then play it at a (slightly) lower resolution and without surround sound? Pshhyeah.

Fishes,
narco.

And Neflix lets me order the movies I want, not what Hollywood studios try to shove down my throat 12 months a year. The minute a movie download service offers a Wong Kar-Wai movie, I'll pay attention.

[tacomaboy]

Personally I want at least DVD quality downloads wether it is from Vongo or Apple (preferably from Apple). The quality and compatibility isn't even there with Vongo and even the video quality on iTunes isn't good enough. But for 1.99 I might download a missed TV show and watch it on the computer, but not on a big screen. I like to watch movies and TV shows on a big screen, especially in HD. So, for now I'm happy with my DVD rental service where I get 5.1 surround and extras; and my Cable service with HDTV. However, I hope Apple comes out with something cool to kick ass! ;)

[Music_Producer]

Funny how everyone just bashes this service rightaway..

For the :

"I'm sick of companies charging me extra for services I don't need"..

Uh, who's asking you to sign up for their services? If you want movies-on-the-go.. you can either buy DVDs, rent them.. or download them from Vongo. I don't see why everyone here is getting irritated.. its weird.

For an executive on the go, this is awesome. Its better than carrying a portable dvd player and a bundle of DVDs.. its just a matter of convenience and choice for the consumer.

For the "****tastic quality" of the movies:

You do remember when the first mp3s came out right? Sound quality wasn't that great.. now, its awesome. Same with the movie thing.. right now it may not be that great, 3 years down.. it might be better than DVD quality, with surround sound.. all the extras, etc. And remember, that broadband speeds aren't that great.. yet.. maybe when we have 1 GB/s downloads.. they'll update the movies to full resolution.

Imagine taking an ipod or a video/mp3 player to your friend's house, and watching any movie.. with the full movie effect.

So take this as an interesting development.. they have to be lauded for atleast starting such a service. This will no doubt entice Apple to bite the movie bug and come out with their own .. improved (as Apple always does) version of Vongo.

[narco]

And Neflix lets me order the movies I want, not what Hollywood studios try to shove down my throat 12 months a year. The minute a movie download service offers a Wong Kar-Wai movie, I'll pay attention.

Plus 55,000+ movie titles is a lot more than 800. Back when I got Starz for free with my digital cable package, it was one of the least watched channels.

Still waiting for the day when Apple makes a deal with HBO. I think Apple is on the right track by going with TV shows first instead of movies -- most people don't really care about HD quality on their TV shows (unless they're paying for HD service, of course) and 30 minute to an hour TV shows are short enough to watch at your desk.

Fishes,
narco.

[narco]

For an executive on the go, this is awesome. Its better than carrying a portable dvd player and a bundle of DVDs.. its just a matter of convenience and choice for the consumer.


Imagine taking an ipod or a video/mp3 player to your friend's house, and watching any movie.. with the full movie effect.

You can do both of these things with an iPod. You can compress your DVDs for the iPod and take them with you. You can even do the same with rental flicks so long as you delete them when you're done.

[miradu]

In regards to my previous ****tastic quality comment: I think the comment was more in regards towards "was this all they could do".. Hence the comparison to apple's frontrow's streaming trailers to show what technology could do. If they finally got the much needed content licensees, why can't they offer a range of quality? one med at 600 MB, one high at 1 GB? Why should bittorrent rips have higher quality versions of the same movie that I just paid a subscription for online? It is that point of view that I am frustrated with this service.. I KNOW that technology is there to offer what I want, but sadly this service doesn't utilize that technology.

As far as I know, WM9 is an extremely advanced codec, I'm not trying to "diss" on windows here or anything -from what I understand there will be a very very impressive push to get this service moving on both the desktop and mobile fronts. From what I can tell in the help files, and the quality of the files, this service is targeted for personal media players.. players that won't be released until CES, so in some ways I am pre judging this. The quality that I notice fullscreen on my XGA laptop won't be an issue on a device that only has half VGA quality.

I don't want movies on a separate harddrive device or my ipod.. I want movies on my big screened laptop, and I wish the tech and content companies would let me do that well and with flexibility. I have the same comments towards quality for the iTunes videos - they're absolutely awful, if you want to view them on your laptop. (at least with TV I don't expect the same quality as on movies)

[Bonte]

Several years ago, when Starz renewed its long-term contracts with studios, including those owned by Sony and the Walt Disney Company, to put movies on its cable channels, it bought the rights to use them on the Internet as well. This means that other digital services cannot offer these movies in rental or subscription services during the period covered by the Starz contract.

I'm not a US residence but if this contract expires the service is dead? :cool:

[liketom]

overall, specs and pricing are impressive.

arn

agree with you on that , looks very good

if apple had the same - then in a heartbeat i would subscribe

i thought jobsy had the say on the rights to The Increds ?:confused:

[balamw]

Overall this looks like a good deal as it's priced at about the same level of pricing as a typical cable/sat premium channel. Basically Starz on demand. Too bad the quality isn't quite equal to that of digital cable/dbs (yet).

If HBO was part of something similar I'd be very tempted. My DirecTiVo pretty much offers HBO on demand already, and it would be nice to have a better search engine that would mean I'd miss fewer great shows on HBO.

This ironically seems to include Pixar's movies done with Disney it seems.
I'm sure any deals Disney has with Starz do not go on in perpetuity. Otherwise they would never be able to air the films they control, but air on Starz on their own properties, Disney Channel, ABC, ... I suspect we'll see The Incredibles on Disney Channel in early 2007 at the latest.

B

[Poff]

I really hope Apple will be able to nail movies aswell as TV somehow.

Maybe at least for other countries? I don't care much if the US gets movies, as long as Norway does.. ! :D


And btw, this is cool. Approx. 8,5% of the total norwegian population got an iPod for Christmass! Is that sick or what? I mean, in the US that would have translated into 25 million iPods in the weeks before Christmass. Would have been cool, huh? Should have translated into quite a few vid-downloads aswell..?

[strange days]

well, i do expect good quality from TV and movies; now it just might be the Apple foresight that put TV shows first, but the market will decide...

...also, it's not important to be the first on the market, but to be the one who delivers ( easy interface, services package, infrastructure, possibility to evolve ).

Now as far as WMV files are concerned, lots of smartphones are coming out with WM5, and they have beautiful screens up to 640x480, and in a couple years ( depending on your geographic location ) this will be the REAL tough competition Apple will have to face, if they don't come up with an iPhone of their own sooner rather than later.

Now for the home market, i guess we'll have to see how / if the rumored Frontrow system with upgraded .mac cache will work.

And most of all, it's a content war, once the hardware is available; who knows what deals they can make / break...

[After G]

Apple has the right idea going into this with the TV shows.

1) Download show to computer, convert to iPod format, load onto iPod.
2) Pay $2 for show, load on iPod.

A lot of people would go for #2 - convenience, and one less (long) step.

The iPod might cause this thing with Starz to lose traction. WM9 doesn't play with the iPod.

If anyone trusts MS formats with their money I feel sorry for them. How many companies work with Word documents that need to be converted with the release of a new version of Word? At least Apple gives you cross-platform software that can convert QuickTime formats to something else of your choosing.

[icykismet]

bad news for Apple... at least with these movies



This ironically seems to include Pixar's movies done with Disney it seems.

Ah yes, but Apple has the hidden ace up it's sleeve -- the podcast... And in case you haven't heard, that now includes 1930s and 40s cartoons like Bugs Bunny and Aladdin in Vintage ToonCast (http://www.vintagetooncast.com/). Hard to believe, but apparently there are plenty of public domain cartoons from long ago that just about anyone can download from archive.org and try to make a buck off of... nice to see someone who isn't going for profit.

[Marx55]

A shame. A lost opportunity for QuickTime to become the standard on downloadable movies...

Apple: a quick response is required ASAP!

[jywv8]

My holy grail is an on-demand service that I can access through my TV that will let me watch an unlimited number of movies every month from a selection consisting of every movie ever made (or close to it). I love the convenience factor of Comcast's current on-demand service, but their movie selection stinks. And I want to watch movies in full HD glory on my honking plasma, not my computer.

I don't need something tangible to hold in my hands. As someone previously mentioned, unlike, say, a music CD, which I will listen to repeatedly, once I watch a movie I rarely want to watch it again. Heck, I would _rather_ rent a movie than buy it, even for the same price, because I don't want the clutter.

If someone were to ever offer such a service, I'd pay lots of money for it.

(On a related note, I wish Apple would offer music compressed at a higher bit rate through the iTunes music store. I'd pay more money for that, too.)

[Bad Beaver]

And I want to watch movies in full HD glory on my honking plasma, not my computer.

Thanks. As somebody pointed out already, the res of Vongo is not that much less than DVD, so why is it not full DVD? Why 64Kbps audio? For Stereo? They must be kidding. Full DVD resolution and Full digital sound is what is needed for such a service.

[Jesus]

Does anyone remember Vingle, the names seem to similar for my liking.

[Bonte]

Let me first say that I am currently using the service. Rather than write a comment about something I never tried, I decided to get on my PC Notebook and subscribed to the service.

Of course there should be Apple fans that will hate anything MS, but such fans are always predictable with there bias opinions.

Let me try it ... DARN its not working. :mad:
Damned, now i have a bias opinion. :cool:

[somairotevoli]

Well this is BS. I use opera on both pc and mac and have been for years. Well look what I get
http://www.vongo.com/images/failurePages/BrowserCheckTagLine.gif

[BornAgainMac]

Just before Mac World.... Interesting.

[windowuser82]

Thanks. As somebody pointed out already, the res of Vongo is not that much less than DVD, so why is it not full DVD? Why 64Kbps audio? For Stereo? They must be kidding. Full DVD resolution and Full digital sound is what is needed for such a service.


600MB download v/s 1 gig download. That's why. If it *was* full DVD resolution/sound...... "No one will download a file THAT large! Dumb pc users!" or some silly b/s comment.

Full digital sound and full resolution is not needed for a service of this nature. If Apple came out with this service before Starz, you would find ways to fully support and justify the less-than-perfect quality.

[Stella]

Looks good.

I don't think it really needs iPod support to be popular - only that its reliable and offers a good range of content. PSP support would be good though - watching movies on a PSP makes more sense than using an iPod.

Hopefully this will stir up the competition.

Mac support would be excellent - but wouldn't this mean that microsoft be releasing the DRM for Mac soon ( which currently isn't available )?

There is no reason why this shouldn't be successful - apart from the size of huge downloads - its not exactly like buying a song.

[dernhelm]

600MB download v/s 1 gig download. That's why. If it *was* full DVD resolution/sound...... "No one will download a file THAT large! Dumb pc users!" or some silly b/s comment.

Full digital sound and full resolution is not needed for a service of this nature. If Apple came out with this service before Starz, you would find ways to fully support and justify the less-than-perfect quality.

Agreed. The quality of the download is not really the issue. It's a pretty good price/performance ratio honestly. This may be something worth considering, but I won't be signing up for anything pre-macworld...

[elmimmo]

To me, this service offers me as much as the iTunes store. I.e. NOTHING

Back to bittorrent…

(PS: Yes, I did read that even if I was in the US it is not available for the Mac)

[gauchogolfer]

Like the previous poster, I am currently living in Europe (France), and I'm curious if future iTunes restrictions on video might apply here. Since I'm an American with a US-based credit card and address, I think it won't be a problem unless they check the IP address for my computer.....
Here's to hoping it works for my like the iTMS does....sans problem.

[longofest]

Anyone else see something hidden in their promise to serve mac customers eventually? Since they are a Windows Media only service, this could hint at Microsoft finally releasing an updated client for Mac, perhaps with WM10 and more importantly DRM support built in.

[Poff]

Ah yes, but Apple has the hidden ace up it's sleeve -- the podcast... And in case you haven't heard, that now includes 1930s and 40s cartoons like Bugs Bunny and Aladdin in Vintage ToonCast (http://www.vintagetooncast.com/). Hard to believe, but apparently there are plenty of public domain cartoons from long ago that just about anyone can download from archive.org and try to make a buck off of... nice to see someone who isn't going for profit.

Hey, cool podcast. And I signed up for their pledge. and you should too. :)

[poohat1000]

just wait till macworld methinks

[SiliconAddict]

I went on Virtual PC and checked out the website -- what a totally crappy system. It doesn't work on the video iPod or the PSP, only devices that support some kind of MS portable Windows Media player. Dead on arrival.


You can thank Apple for that. :rolleyes:

[otter-boy]

I'm assuming Vongo means Video on the go. V=video, on, go. Still stupid.

Fishes,
narco.

Stupid--yes. But this explanation is exactly what came to my mind when I saw the name, so it does reinforce what the product is about unlike many names out there. (I think Movies ON the GO = would have been more entertaining--references in tons of movies, such as Flash Gordon and Blazing Saddles).

[otter-boy]

Anyone else see something hidden in their promise to serve mac customers eventually? Since they are a Windows Media only service, this could hint at Microsoft finally releasing an updated client for Mac, perhaps with WM10 and more importantly DRM support built in.

Or, since this service will be released to Sony Connect, it will also be released to iTunes?

I'd rather have the service released to iTunes than have Microsoft update WM for Mac (especially since I'm not planning to ever download Windows Media Player for my Mac).

[flat6]

To me, this service offers me as much as the iTunes store. I.e. NOTHING

Back to bittorrent…

(PS: Yes, I did read that even if I was in the US it is not available for the Mac)

Yup. No Canada either.

http://xs62.xs.to/pics/06012/geo.png (http://xs.to)

[iDM]

Its weird to hear that someone is already doing this, i honestly figured it would happen at some point. As bandwidth increases(Fiber Optic Internet) movie downloads and on demand access to unlimited movies will kill TV mark my words. I know that I am not the majority here but I had On Demand at my last apartment and the only thing I ever watched on TV was On Demand HBO Series. I completely stopped flipping channels. As more and more stations provide their content to On Demand services I can see where this is going.

[freeny]

Just before Mac World.... Interesting.
Ditto on that! Anticipating Steve to drop some big bombs next week. Cant wait:) This is really going to turn out to be a "who can screw the other company first and best" kinda battle. At least it will be a pretty fair fight this time.

[d.perel]

The battle for portable video is coming down to PSP vs. iPod ... Sony has the better movie player but is clueless how to exploit it. But it still may win because it's ridiculously easy to rip a DVD and format it for PSP. (Equally true for iPod, but the first generation screen can't compete with PSP.) Once dual processors and huge HDs become the norm, everyone's going to be ripping their DVDs and putting time shifted TV onto PSPs and iPods and Hollywood is going to be in full panic.

I wish that somehow, some way, Apple and Sony could stem the possibility of a huge battle. After all, weren't Apple and Sony supposed to be partenered throughout the "Year of HD?" I almost think that the time is coming where Apple will have to open iTunes (maybe even a movie store) to other portables

[SiliconAddict]

I actually like Vongo. Its much more flexible then iTMS. It doesn't have the TV shows that Apple does but that will come in time. The iPod is great for Audio. So so for video. The so so-ness makes Vongo or anything else that supports other plays a better option IMHO. I’ll keep my iPod Photo but if I can find something that works with Vongo that I like and assuming that Vongo keeps growing. I’ll prob go with them for my video solution.


Edit: ICK...Movies expire from the service. I think not.

[Peace]

Too many posts to quote so :

1. Vongo came out before the Consumer Electronics Show NOT Macworld
2. STARZ is one of the worst movie channels out.
3. This is available in mainly the US thus negating any potential growth
4. Any person in their right mind would rather just watch a full quality movie on their TV rather than a crappy wmv.
5. If it's a media thing done by M$ you know it's gonna flop.

Wait for MWSF ;)

And keep an eye out on http://www.vingle.com

[pgwalsh]

I can only see someone like myself using a service like this when traveling on an airplane or having children that need something to watch on long trips. I'd never use it at home, too much invested in my home theatre system.

[SiliconAddict]

Too many posts to quote so :

1. Vongo came out before the Consumer Electronics Show NOT Macworld
2. STARZ is one of the worst movie channels out. We aren' taking a TV channel here
3. This is available in mainly the US thus negating any potential growth. Nor is anything on iTMovieS at this point.
4. Any person in their right mind would rather just watch a full quality movie on their TV rather than a crappy wmv. Good for portable devices, HTPC, and computers a wider range then iTMovieS supports.)
5. If it's a media thing done by M$ you know it's gonna flop. Its not being done by MS.

Wait for MWSF ;) And what? Get another new iPod with the same form factor and limitations? This is one of the few times I would rather go with the competition. I don't expect to see anything revolutionary when it comes to the iPod. They are prob going to update the shuffle. Prob announce more content at a craptastic res. Woo hoo.

And keep an eye out on http://www.vingle.com

At this point Apple's video offerings is pretty much a bitter taste in my moth.
-Low quality
-Few offerings
-Subpar device to play it on. (The iPod is great for music. The form factor sucks for anything else. IMHO.)

For now I just can't get excited with Apple and video. All of the above is what I expect from a Microsoft launch not something from Apple.

[Peace]

At this point Apple's video offerings is pretty much a bitter taste in my moth.
-Low quality
-Few offerings
-Subpar device to play it on. (The iPod is great for music. The form factor suck for anything else.)

For now I just can't get excited with Apple and video. All of the above is what I expect from a Microsoft launch not something from Apple.


You should read more :-)
NEW YORK, Jan 3 (Reuters) - Cable network Starz Entertainment Group LLC said it plans to launch an Internet movie download service on Tuesday, backed by partnerships with Microsoft and Sony, amid a race to offer more videos over high-speed Internet connections.

But much rides on the success of the service. Vongo, which will rely on Microsoft's(MSFT.O: Quote, Profile, Research) Windows Media technology to provide copyright management and the ability to let customers watch movies on portable media devices, will also play a role in the evolution of Microsoft's portable media software technology

[noel4r]

I would definitely sign up for this one if it becomes available and usable under the Mac platform. This is definitely better than Netflix. It's half the cost and I dont have to wait 2 or 3 days to get my movies and my queue wont read "Long Wait" or "Very Long Wait" anymore. My concern is will I get in trouble with my DSL provider if I download a movie a day. I'm with Verizon. Does anybody know if they have a bandwidth limit?

[SiliconAddict]

You should read more :-)
NEW YORK, Jan 3 (Reuters) - Cable network Starz Entertainment Group LLC said it plans to launch an Internet movie download service on Tuesday, backed by partnerships with Microsoft and Sony, amid a race to offer more videos over high-speed Internet connections.

But much rides on the success of the service. Vongo, which will rely on Microsoft's(MSFT.O: Quote, Profile, Research) Windows Media technology to provide copyright management and the ability to let customers watch movies on portable media devices, will also play a role in the evolution of Microsoft's portable media software technology


They are basing their service on Microsoft's tech. That is all. Basicly they are using MS's WMP's codec and DRM. That doesn't make it suck. Truth be told the WMV codec is pretty damn good from the examples I've seen.
What will make it suck is the service itself. How its setup, how long do you get content? How many systems can it be used on? (Right now 3.) What is the interface like? Etc. This has nothing to do with Microsoft. At this point they are simply providing the framework.

[edgar_is_good]

Did anyone else notice this in the AP article?


The Starz service will not include films from every studio. It has exclusive rights to films from The Walt Disney Co. and Sony Pictures and has licensed some films from other studios.

What do you suppose that means "exclusive"?

[cycocelica]

i would try it if i had a PC. Who cares what the name is, the service it provides is good.

[Peace]

They are basing their service on Microsoft's tech. That is all. Basicly they are using MS's WMP's codec and DRM. That doesn't make it suck. Truth be told the WMV codec is pretty damn good from the examples I've seen.
What will make it suck is the service itself. How its setup, how long do you get content? How many systems can it be used on? (Right now 3.) What is the interface like? Etc. This has nothing to do with Microsoft. At this point they are simply providing the framework.


I used Windows to go to vongo and had to install a program..
The program was written by MS..

[freeny]

Without the iPod, Vongo will fail, most likely. Ease of use will be very important, as well as portability of the video downloads.
I wouldnt be so sure. the video download thing is only months old for the iPod and they have yet to do movies. Steve better have something up his sleeve next week.

[snowmoon]

The thing that I keep comming back to is that Apple will release something similar when they are good and ready to under the assumption that the service will.

* Work flawlessly with their own ( current gen ) hardware
* Work when connected to SD, ED, or HDTV
* Work with windows ( without seamless output to TV )
* Have a decent, but not necessarly extensive, collection of first run and older films.
* Be simple to operate ( preferably through iTMS/frontrow )

on these point I can say that the intel transition looks to be part of the key since delivering content to current generation hardware can be iffy at best because of the CPU requirements for h.264 playback of all but the most basic content. The other part is they, if they use TCP, can basicly guarntee a level of security that no other platform can touch at this point.

Apple never adds a new feature without long and extensive deliberation because they know that they can never take it away. Vongo will never be able to touch the integration and simplicity that iTMS+Apple hardware can bring to the table. Apple is rarely the first out of the gate on this new technology, but they have been one of the largest and cleanest adoption because of the ease of use.

I am just waiting on the announcement. I want a Apple mini + frontrow + movies to hook up to my HDTV front projector for on demand content! I will buy one as soon as it's all ready to go, but it's gotta support HDTV h.264 unlike the curren generation of hardware.

[Sunrunner]

I wouldnt be so sure. the video download thing is only months old for the iPod and they have yet to do movies. Steve better have something up his sleeve next week.


People dont buy the service and then go looking for a device that supports it. People buy a thing and go looking for things to do with it. The iPod was successful BEFORE the iTMS, and it was because people liked the device. This new service has little to stand on precisely because it requires people to want the service and find the THING to use it with. In this case one of the things is Windows Media Player, which is strike #1.

[Sunrunner]

I am just waiting on the announcement. I want a Apple mini + frontrow + movies to hook up to my HDTV front projector for on demand content! I will buy one as soon as it's all ready to go, but it's gotta support HDTV h.264 unlike the curren generation of hardware.

The main constraint has always been and is still bandwidth. Even with h. 264, HD movies would be monsterous. Until everyone has fiber in their house, dont expect an on-demand HD service. A movie DL service offering SD movies on some combination of .mac and distributed downloading (similar to a torrent) is the most likely shape of any offering coming down the pipe anytime soon from Apple.

[snowmoon]

The main constraint has always been and is still bandwidth. Even with h. 264, HD movies would be monsterous. Until everyone has fiber in their house, dont expect an on-demand HD service. A movie DL service offering SD movies on some combination of .mac and distributed downloading (similar to a torrent) is the most likely shape of any offering coming down the pipe anytime soon from Apple.

Let me just say I don't expect the new service to offer HD content right away, but most of the current generation hardware can't even playback h.264 HD content smoothly. I would be more than happy with the quality of the DVD quality trailers ( 480p ) that quicktime offers played back on a HDTV setup. They seem to have more color detail and sharpness than your average DVD.

[SiliconAddict]

I used Windows to go to vongo and had to install a program..
The program was written by MS..


Really? Didn't go into help about when I installed it. I'll have to do that when I get home. That is interesting.

[Peace]

Really? Didn't go into help about when I installed it. I'll have to do that when I get home. That is interesting.

No..It's not in the help>about

It's in all the DLL's and exe's

And there also happens to be a qt-dll file which I'm guessing is a dll for Quicktime..

Ok I went back into windows and actually the only dll files are the typical C++ runtime dll's however the actual vongo player is " a special implementation of Windows Media Player "

[ClarkeB]

Probably the only thing keeping me from just downloading TV shows I want to watch from iTunes is that they use the cropped versions of the shows for the most part. There is no (no) reason they can't put the widescreen versions of the shows on iTunes...even with the cropped ones.

The "Lazy Sunday" SNL skit was uploaded in widescreen (as NBC is one of the more artistic networks out there...they air their shows in letterboxed widescreen on the analogue channels so the digital channel can have the action spaced more cinematically [i.e. taking up the entire 16:9 frame rather than taking up a 4:3 sized portion of the frame with empty room on either side])

[freeny]

People dont buy the service and then go looking for a device that supports it. People buy a thing and go looking for things to do with it. The iPod was successful BEFORE the iTMS, and it was because people liked the device. This new service has little to stand on precisely because it requires people to want the service and find the THING to use it with. In this case one of the things is Windows Media Player, which is strike #1.
I hope you are right;)

[Sean7512]

Looks good, but it won't work on my windows laptop. I keep getting a "software error" Oh well, there loss of a potential customer. My comp EASILY meets all of the requirements. I'll just wait for the mac version.

[SiliconAddict]

People dont buy the service and then go looking for a device that supports it. People buy a thing and go looking for things to do with it. The iPod was successful BEFORE the iTMS

Umm the iPod didn't really take off until:

-iTunes was on Windows
-iTMS came out.

People buy the iPod because:

1. Its trendy
2. Its tech sexy
3. What it does (Music) it does well.

When it comes to video on the iPod it's about the same as photos. Its a tacked on feature. An afterthought. The iPod wasn't designed from the ground up for video or photos and as such the experience is less then perfect.
There really isn't any happy medium between video\photos and music. Music doesn't need to be seen. Video does. They are too different to fit into one device that is very pocketable while sports a big enough screen to view it for an extended length of time. IMHO a 4" screen is pretty much minimum for video. YMMV on that though. I still want to see another iPod product added to the mix. Apple use to have the iPod Photo, Normal iPods, iPod Mini, and the shuffle. Well they nixed the Photo and brought those features down to the "normal" iPod. There is no reason they couldn't release an iPod Video with a widescreen 4" screen. The only reason they woldn't is if video was always intended to be an afterthought.

[SiliconAddict]

Probably the only thing keeping me from just downloading TV shows I want to watch from iTunes is that they use the cropped versions of the shows for the most part. There is no (no) reason they can't put the widescreen versions of the shows on iTunes...even with the cropped ones.



Sure there is a reason: The iPod with Video doesn't have a 16:9 screen because they wanted to get as much screen on the dinky system as possible. So they went with a 4:3 screen. If you put widescreen video on the thing it will look smaller. Again this is just another example of Apple shoehorning a feature into a product that it wasn't designed for.

[neildmitchell]

Where do they get these names? Vongo? WTF is that?
V ideo ON the Go

[the silver fox]

Ok I went back into windows and actually the only dll files are the typical C++ runtime dll's however the actual vongo player is " a special implementation of Windows Media Player "

They just mean that it is a skinned version of the Windows Media Player.

[the silver fox]

Looks good, but it won't work on my windows laptop. I keep getting a "software error" Oh well, there loss of a potential customer. My comp EASILY meets all of the requirements. I'll just wait for the mac version.

The application does auto-updating. I'm sure bugs like these will get ironed out quickly. Otherwise, people won't buy it.

[the silver fox]

Vongo will never be able to touch the integration and simplicity that iTMS+Apple hardware can bring to the table.

Have you actually tried it? It couldn't really be any easier to use. Does exactly what it says on the tin.

[the silver fox]

What do you suppose that means "exclusive"?

That means that those 'exclusive' movies can only be shown as long as Vongo owns the rights to them. If they have exclusive rights to Fantastic Four, then no other download service can offer them.

[the silver fox]

Like the previous poster, I am currently living in Europe (France), and I'm curious if future iTunes restrictions on video might apply here. Since I'm an American with a US-based credit card and address, I think it won't be a problem unless they check the IP address for my computer.....
Here's to hoping it works for my like the iTMS does....sans problem.

It performs a geo-based IP check before you can download the app and on serving app content through the servers.

Not in the US? No Vongo for you...

[the silver fox]

Edit: ICK...Movies expire from the service. I think not.

They do expire yes, but after a long time. Given that you can re-download it if you want to watch it again, what is the problem? They are clearly aiming this at people who don't care about keeping files, but want to watch whatever movie 'instantly'. Or those who want to load up their handheld with a stack of movies before making a trip.

[mike3k]

The battle for portable video is coming down to PSP vs. iPod ... Sony has the better movie player but is clueless how to exploit it. But it still may win because it's ridiculously easy to rip a DVD and format it for PSP. (Equally true for iPod, but the first generation screen can't compete with PSP.) Once dual processors and huge HDs become the norm, everyone's going to be ripping their DVDs and putting time shifted TV onto PSPs and iPods and Hollywood is going to be in full panic.


I prefer watching video on my PSP (I have a 60G iPod Photo, but bought a PSP instead of upgrading to an iPod Video). I love the PSP's large 16:9 screen rather than the iPod's much smaller screen. Now if there was only a way to watch TV shows I bought from iTunes on my PSP.

[the silver fox]

Not sure how this new service handles all the DVD extras and such, but I definitely get that with Netflix -- plus I can just pop it into my DVD player instead of downloading it, transferring it to a portable player, hooking it up to my TV and then play it at a (slightly) lower resolution and without surround sound? Pshhyeah.

Fishes,
narco.

1) It has different movies for the equivalent of DVD special features.
2) Predominent market will those who want content to go.

[Mr. Durden]

That means that those 'exclusive' movies can only be shown as long as Vongo owns the rights to them. If they have exclusive rights to Fantastic Four, then no other download service can offer them.

Correct.

But it covers not only downloads but on-air/cable broadcasts, too. A good example is that even though Apple and Pixar are joined at the hip, all those Pixar movies were released under the Disney banner, so you wont be seeing any of them anywhere except VONGO or on one of the Starz channels. Not even on the Disney channels. There is a certain amount of time, or "window" that movies stay in before they are available on other channels, so as long as the movie is within that window, it belongs to Starz (or whomever has the rights to it).

And I wouldnt hold my breath for a Mac version of this service, although it would be nice. The previouse service Starz offered through REAL also promised a Mac version eventually and it never materialized.

[the silver fox]

Correct.

But it covers not only downloads but on-air/cable broadcasts, too. A good example is that even though Apple and Pixar are joined at the hip, all those Pixar movies were released under the Disney banner, so you wont be seeing any of them anywhere except VONGO or on one of the Starz channels. Not even on the Disney channels. There is a certain amount of time, or "window" that movies stay in before they are available on other channels, so as long as the movie is within that window, it belongs to Starz (or whomever has the rights to it).

And I wouldnt hold my breath for a Mac version of this service, although it would be nice. The previouse service Starz offered through REAL also promised a Mac version eventually and it never materialized.

You are correct on the first part, but not on the second. They will be offering a Mac version. The reason that the Real Ticket service didn't end up on Mac is because they have obviously been working on this...

[Mr. Durden]

You are correct on the first part, but not on the second. They will be offering a Mac version. The reason that the Real Ticket service didn't end up on Mac is because they have obviously been working on this...

You sound very sure on that point. You know any inside info you want to share with the rest of us?

You may be right, though, sice Apple and Real were at odds during this same time, it may have made a Mac version of the Real software unlikely.

I still say that until (or IF) this service really takes off, we wont be seeing any Mac version. Hope it happens, though. At least a year away.

[Mr. Durden]

It performs a geo-based IP check before you can download the app and on serving app content through the servers.

Not in the US? No Vongo for you...


Just curious. If you are in the UK, how can you use the service? And how do you know so much about it?

[Peace]

You sound very sure on that point. You know any inside info you want to share with the rest of us?

You may be right, though, sice Apple and Real were at odds during this same time, it may have made a Mac version of the Real software unlikely.

I still say that until (or IF) this service really takes off, we wont be seeing any Mac version. Hope it happens, though. At least a year away.


imho we wont be seeing vongo for the mac because the only reason vongo came out right before the CES is because they know Apple is gonna come out with Vingle at the MWSF..
Just like that new Acer dual core coming out...

The PC world sees a one upmanship dual this year with Apple going Intel..

We can expect this type of stuff all year..

And what a year it's gonna be!!

[Mr. Durden]

[QUOTE=Peace]Too many posts to quote so :

2. STARZ is one of the worst movie channels out.


And where would you recommend going to watch movies? HBO? Tune in right now and odds are you'll get an original series. Cinemax? Actually, does anybody even get Cinemax any more? Showtime? They pretty much share HBO's movies and have series of there own.

For what its for, you can't get anything much better than Starz. Starz is movies. No series, or blah blah blah. Just movies. They have some of the biggest studios contracted to play movies on their channels. With the something like 13 channels, they have the bases covered for a movie only place to go. HBO kills with the series, which they are more popular for, anyway. Movies are and always will be a second thought to HBO.

[Peace]

[QUOTE=Peace]Too many posts to quote so :

2. STARZ is one of the worst movie channels out.


And where would you recommend going to watch movies? HBO? Tune in right now and odds are you'll get an original series. Cinemax? Actually, does anybody even get Cinemax any more? Showtime? They pretty much share HBO's movies and have series of there own.

For what its for, you can't get anything much better than Starz. Starz is movies. No series, or blah blah blah. Just movies. They have some of the biggest studios contracted to play movies on their channels. With the something like 13 channels, they have the bases covered for a movie only place to go. HBO kills with the series, which they are more popular for, anyway. Movies are and always will be a second thought to HBO.

Where would I go to see a movie?

A theatre..

[the silver fox]

You sound very sure on that point. You know any inside info you want to share with the rest of us?

You may be right, though, sice Apple and Real were at odds during this same time, it may have made a Mac version of the Real software unlikely.

I still say that until (or IF) this service really takes off, we wont be seeing any Mac version. Hope it happens, though. At least a year away.


Because one of the interviews with one of the heads of the Vongo service said that.

[the silver fox]

Just curious. If you are in the UK, how can you use the service? And how do you know so much about it?

I live in the UK. I am currently travelling in the US (was here for New Year). Simply working through the application and website (particularly the help section) tells you a lot about the service. As do the hundreds of articles written by the journalists who were at the launch today in Vegas.

[the silver fox]

You sound very sure on that point. You know any inside info you want to share with the rest of us?

You may be right, though, sice Apple and Real were at odds during this same time, it may have made a Mac version of the Real software unlikely.

I still say that until (or IF) this service really takes off, we wont be seeing any Mac version. Hope it happens, though. At least a year away.

It wont be a year... The application is flash player based and essentially portable (with a few I/O changes). The only thing that Vongo needs for this to run on a Mac, is Microsoft to release the new DRM version of WMP. That is it.

[theBB]

I can see from the posted article that it costs $10 per month, but I connected to their website three times today and I cannot find where they list their price. It makes me nervous when I see that a company hides such basic info about its service.

Besides, the site only worked flawlessly once, the other two times their streams were choppy. Maybe they cannot handle all of the traffic right now. I hope they improve it. I don't know about the video quality, not willing to try it on TV, yet.

I think $10 a month for unlimited downloads is a very good offer if the video quality is on par with DVD, even if I cannot save it on my harddisk (thinking about the past rumors about Apple's download service). I hardly ever watch a movie more than once anyways. I hope Apple and at least one other company makes such a video-on-demand system with a large library work successfully as competition is always good. Right now, one of the biggest draws of Netflix is their large library of titles. I wonder how long it would take for these services to make the size of their libraries comparable.

[berkleeboy210]

I just downloaded this onto my PC. and am Downloading a test movie right now "Elf". Currently it says it will take 26 minutes to complete.

Also I don't know if anyone caught this, but it also enables you to watch the live stream from the Starz Movie Channel.

I hope Apple really does come out w/ something like this soon, for the Mac side.

[the silver fox]

I can see from the posted article that it costs $10 per month, but I connected to their website three times today and I cannot find where they list their price. It makes me nervous when I see that a company hides such basic info about its service.

Besides, the site only worked flawlessly once, the other two times their streams were choppy. Maybe they cannot handle all of the traffic right now. I hope they improve it. I don't know about the video quality, not willing to try it on TV, yet.

I think $10 a month for unlimited downloads is a very good offer if the video quality is on par with DVD, even if I cannot save it on my harddisk (thinking about the past rumors about Apple's download service). I hardly ever watch a movie more than once anyways. I hope Apple and at least one other company makes such a video-on-demand system with a large library work successfully as competition is always good. Right now, one of the biggest draws of Netflix is their large library of titles. I wonder how long it would take for these services to make the size of their libraries comparable.

Maybe they are still deciding the price. After all, it has been reported by some sites as $9.95 and others as $9.99.

[the silver fox]

I just downloaded this onto my PC. and am Downloading a test movie right now "Elf". Currently it says it will take 26 minutes to complete.

Also I don't know if anyone caught this, but it also enables you to watch the live stream from the Starz Movie Channel.

I hope Apple really does come out w/ something like this soon, for the Mac side.

Still looking good and working well on my PC

[MarcelV]

Anyon thought about the possibility that Vongo will be available within iTunes? Vongo will be available thru Sony Connect according to some press releases. What if Apple will just be the front-end to Vongo's backend? Would solve the DRM issues as Apple adds the DRM layer at purchase time. Will provide Apple with the movies where Vongo has the rights to, and provides Vongo with an instant large customer base. Looks like a win-win situation. If Apple would release a nice 7"-10" tablet mac and everyone will be happy. Even the credit card companies because I expect a lot of people buying this thing with their credit cards... :)

[newamiga]

Anyon thought about the possibility that Vongo will be available within iTunes? Vongo will be available thru Sony Connect according to some press releases. What if Apple will just be the front-end to Vongo's backend? Would solve the DRM issues as Apple adds the DRM layer at purchase time. Will provide Apple with the movies where Vongo has the rights to, and provides Vongo with an instant large customer base. Looks like a win-win situation. If Apple would release a nice 7"-10" tablet mac and everyone will be happy. Even the credit card companies because I expect a lot of people buying this thing with their credit cards... :)


I think this is at least part of the answer. It appears fairly clear that MS is not going to fully update WMP with full up DRM for the Mac. That being the case.. would they use Quicktime with Fairplay DRM? Would Apple license it.. I doubt it.. so how would they become Apple compatible soon? Well if Apple did it they would.:eek:

[snowmoon]

Hmmm...

Slick - check
Site teid to buggy IE - check
Medocre selection - check
Application leaks like a sive ( 400+MB the first time I ran the app ) - check
Demads credit card information up front - check
No ability to preview quality of the movies - check

Being adventerous I am trying one from the "new this week" category to see what the quality is, but I'm not holding my breath.

[snowmoon]

Ok, tried to download a PPV movie... ( twice even )

didn't work, in fact the whole thing crashed and burned.

* Customer service is at least responsive
* They don't know what's wrong
* The program requires some ports to be open, but CS doesn't know which ones
* They charge your CC before download starts
* The application eats memory like crazy
* The application uses all it's own GUI tools and does not respond to normal keyboard navigation
* It's jerky
* Searching can't match "Gone in 60 seconds" when title is "Gone in sixty seconds"

If this is the best they can come up with I still stand by my remark that Apple will be able to provide a much better environment than this.

[the silver fox]

Hmmm...

Slick - check
Site teid to buggy IE - check
Medocre selection - check
Application leaks like a sive ( 400+MB the first time I ran the app ) - check
Demads credit card information up front - check
No ability to preview quality of the movies - check

Being adventerous I am trying one from the "new this week" category to see what the quality is, but I'm not holding my breath.

Hmmm.
Site doesn't appear tied to IE for me; works better in Firefox, in fact.

Mediocre selection compared to which other movie download service?

Application does use a large amount of memory, but then it IS a beta.

The website allows you to download a clip of 'The Incredibles' before you even download the application.

Sorry all, but I think this is a very good first of its kind.

[snowmoon]

Hmmm.
Site doesn't appear tied to IE for me; works better in Firefox, in fact.


The site vongo.com works in firefox, but the application is an IE wrapper. Try removing the flash plugin for IE and installing or running the apllicaiton it won't work since it's just an IE wrapper.


Mediocre selection compared to which other movie download service?

Granted, but I could not find most of the movies I have in my netflix queue


Application does use a large amount of memory, but then it IS a beta.


400+ MB? It leaks at least a MB a minute.


The website allows you to download a clip of 'The Incredibles' before you even download the application.


one, low resolution trailer.... if that's the quality than count me out since it looked like crap.


Sorry all, but I think this is a very good first of its kind.

You are one of the few that seem to be able to get this working satifactory since I have checked over at AVSForum and others have been unable to get the application or service to work as expected.

[snowmoon]

Add to the list of problem..

* Account information randomly updates. I currently have a phone number that I never added to the account listed as my account
* It claims I can't updated my account info because my zip code is not in my state
* It won't let me remove or alter my credit card info. With how good the system is responding I would prefer that these people NOT have my CC info.

[the silver fox]

Ok, tried to download a PPV movie... ( twice even )

didn't work, in fact the whole thing crashed and burned.

* Customer service is at least responsive
* They don't know what's wrong
* The program requires some ports to be open, but CS doesn't know which ones
* They charge your CC before download starts
* The application eats memory like crazy
* The application uses all it's own GUI tools and does not respond to normal keyboard navigation
* It's jerky
* Searching can't match "Gone in 60 seconds" when title is "Gone in sixty seconds"

If this is the best they can come up with I still stand by my remark that Apple will be able to provide a much better environment than this.

Haven't tried PPV yet.

The GUI is clearly Flash for ease of cross-platform development. Maybe in the final release they will be putting more normal 'hooks' in

Yes, the meta isn't that great.

[BOOMBA]

Without the iPod, Vongo will fail, most likely. Ease of use will be very important, as well as portability of the video downloads.

I'd like to see something like this offered by Apple, since they have the foundation in place to make this happen.

The iPod CAN be defeated.
Apple needs to get high quality video playback on the iPod.

[the silver fox]

The site vongo.com works in firefox, but the application is an IE wrapper. Try removing the flash plugin for IE and installing or running the apllicaiton it won't work since it's just an IE wrapper.


Yes, but that isn't what you said. The app runs C++, Flash (GUI and Trailers, many different server calls) all within an IE wrapper, agreed.


Granted, but I could not find most of the movies I have in my netflix queue

True. But you can't get your netflix movies within 20 minutes.



400+ MB? It leaks at least a MB a minute.

Yes that is crazy, but then the first (non-beta) Windows versions of iTunes used over 300MB on it's first release... so no surprises there for a Beta release.



one, low resolution trailer.... if that's the quality than count me out since it looked like crap.


Agreed, It does look bad, and is clearly compressed by the 'holiday staff' since it is of a much lower resolution than the movies I've downloaded. But again, that isn't what you said.



You are one of the few that seem to be able to get this working satifactory since I have checked over at AVSForum and others have been unable to get the application or service to work as expected.

Yes, yes... I get it, you can't get it to work properly, but I'm sure many thousands of other people can. Including other people on AVSForum.com.

[snowmoon]

The iPod CAN be defeated.
Apple needs to get high quality video playback on the iPod.

I have DVD quality movies stored on my iPod that can be played back full resolution through A/V cables. So it's not that it's not possible, just that apple has chosen not to offer it through iTMS at this time.

[the silver fox]

The iPod CAN be defeated.
Apple needs to get high quality video playback on the iPod.

No-one really wants the iPod to be defeated.

The thing that is really holding up any of these services is the film industry. Starz obviously managed to get exclusive rights to many movies due to their Cable TV network.

Studios only really trust big companies like Microsoft, Sony (beacuse it owns studios) and Apple to pull it off. That is why MS is obviously using this service as a test bed for WMP timed DRM. That is also why Vongo keeps flaunting the Microsoft name. Real Didn't work out for Starz because not enough people use it and Starz were already in bed with MSoft.

[the silver fox]

I have DVD quality movies stored on my iPod that can be played back full resolution through A/V cables. So it's not that it's not possible, just that apple has chosen not to offer it through iTMS at this time.

Same here. Apple isn't offering higher resolution movies because of the incredible bandwidth costs.

They will have to offer different pricing structures if they were to offer the quicktime-trailer-type concept of small, medium, large. The back-end of the iTunes store is a horrible mess as it is (trust me on that if you don't know), offering a tiered service will be a considerable pain to write from scratch (not to mention get the studios to agree to), so I'm sure it will be hammered together with a large mallet.

[the silver fox]

400+ MB? It leaks at least a MB a minute.

Just double-checked this on two additional PCs I added to my account (thank you office), after running a process viewer for over an hour on the three machines the average usage seems to be 75MB.

Oddly enough, when it is running in the foreground, it uses on average 10MB less!

Have you tried a re-install?

[the silver fox]

Add to the list of problem..

* Account information randomly updates. I currently have a phone number that I never added to the account listed as my account
* It claims I can't updated my account info because my zip code is not in my state
* It won't let me remove or alter my credit card info. With how good the system is responding I would prefer that these people NOT have my CC info.

Sounds like their payment partner has a few issues, then, like the iTunes Music Store. I wasn't able to use an international credit card (offshore bank) originally registered to a UK address, for purchasing songs from the US store even though it is now registered to a US address (tells me it isn't valid). No other online store has any issues with it. Odd.

[snowmoon]

Same here. Apple isn't offering higher resolution movies because of the incredible bandwidth costs.

They will have to offer different pricing structures if they were to offer the quicktime-trailer-type concept of small, medium, large. The back-end of the iTunes store is a horrible mess as it is (trust me on that if you don't know), offering a tiered service will be a considerable pain to write from scratch (not to mention get the studios to agree to), so I'm sure it will be hammered together with a large mallet.

I doubt bandwith is the core issue here. bandwidth is cheap, licensing the content is not.

[the silver fox]

I doubt bandwith is the core issue here. bandwidth is cheap, licensing the content is not.

It doesn't cost them any extra to license different file sizes of movies/songs. Licenses are given by medium. In the case of Apple downloads only. In the case of Starz, broadcast (their 10+ TV channels) and download.

Apple, like Starz, use Akamai servers to serve their content. If you have ever dealt with Akamai, you will know that when you are talking about 10GB a movie instead of 600MB, bandwidth is not cheap.

[theBB]

Application does use a large amount of memory, but then it IS a beta.


It might be new, but nowhere on the site it claims to be a beta. I am tired of companies putting out some service or software out there without checking out their product properly. A few bugs here and there is OK, but major issues are not acceptable.

In any case, once any product gets the reputation of "buggy" or "unreliable" through the word of mouth, it will cost them a lot more to reach out to customers. It is better to introduce something a few weeks late rather than lose the early adopter or techno-geek crowd. Those are the best word of mouth sources afterall.

[Peace]

It might be new, but nowhere on the site it claims to be a beta. I am tired of companies putting out some service or software out there without checking out their product properly. A few bugs here and there is OK, but major issues are not acceptable.

In any case, once any product gets the reputation of "buggy" or "unreliable" through the word of mouth, it will cost them a lot more to reach out to customers. It is better to introduce something a few weeks late rather than lose the early adopter or techno-geek crowd. Those are the best word of mouth sources afterall.

They may not say it on the website but once you d/l the program and run it it says Beta at the top..

[the silver fox]

It might be new, but nowhere on the site it claims to be a beta. I am tired of companies putting out some service or software out there without checking out their product properly. A few bugs here and there is OK, but major issues are not acceptable.

In any case, once any product gets the reputation of "buggy" or "unreliable" through the word of mouth, it will cost them a lot more to reach out to customers. It is better to introduce something a few weeks late rather than lose the early adopter or techno-geek crowd. Those are the best word of mouth sources afterall.

True. The die-hard geeks are the ones who start a product off, like the first-gen iPodders, but it wasn't until it hit Windows and mass-market that it
really took off. There were so many complaints when the iPod launched about it not having has much storage / disk speeds as other offers. I don't see the mass-market crowd being so worried about that now...

Plus, I'm sure there will be a TV campaign starting soon. They have the TV ads on their website already.

[snowmoon]

It doesn't cost them any extra to license different file sizes of movies/songs. Licenses are given by medium. In the case of Apple downloads only. In the case of Starz, broadcast (their 10+ TV channels) and download.

Apple, like Starz, use Akamai servers to serve their content. If you have ever dealt with Akamai, you will know that when you are talking about 10GB a movie instead of 600MB, bandwidth is not cheap.

600 MB for SVHS quality, 1.1 Gb for DVD quality, 2.9 Gb for 720p and over 6gb for 1080i.

I'm sorry, but anything less than DVD quality is a waste of my time and money. I understand why 1080i is unfeasable at this time, but give me a break, they can't even offer DVD quality downloads?

[the silver fox]

600 MB for SVHS quality, 1.1 Gb for DVD quality, 2.9 Gb for 720p and over 6gb for 1080i.

I'm sorry, but anything less than DVD quality is a waste of my time and money. I understand why 1080i is unfeasable at this time, but give me a break, they can't even offer DVD quality downloads?

Easy, Tiger. I agree with you. But they are still offering higher resolution than the ITMS. They have to go for what most of the market can play back on PCs and, believe it or not, not everyone has the latest kit. Have you tried playing back a 720x486 .mp4 on a 1GHz Powerbook? Not exactly a smooth experience. Neither is a 1080p trailer on apple.com/trailers on anything other than a G5 tower.

I'm sure that Starz did plenty of focus-testing for vongo and I'm sure that the 'instant-gratification' was what most people responded well to. Not even the view anywhere factor.

[snowmoon]

Easy, Tiger. I agree with you. But they are still offering higher resolution than the ITMS. They have to go for what most of the market can play back on PCs and, believe it or not, not everyone has the latest kit. Have you tried playing back a 720x486 .mp4 on a 1GHz Powerbook? Not exactly a smooth experience. Neither is a 1080p trailer on apple.com/trailers on anything other than a G5 tower.

I'm sure that Starz did plenty of focus-testing for vongo and I'm sure that the 'instant-gratification' was what most people responded well to. Not even the view anywhere factor.

I still don't see what affection you hold for this service. It's got more bugs than a bait shop and the smell is not that much better.

As for the first part of the comment... please see back to my original post as to why Apple won't do this type of service ( yet ). My point is that Apple will only go forward with this one all elements are in place. iTMS TV downloads are a first step, frontrow is a second, the intel transition will hopefully provide enough horsepower to allow smooth decoding of all h.264 content, .mac is being "upgraded" to support larger downloads, and then they just need to provide the content once all other items fall into place. Apple will not pre-announce the service and it may be only for intel mac with the way things are going.

All I have been saying is that Apple WON'T provide the content until the other peices are in place otherwise it's an incomplete and ineffective user experience ( Vongo is just a perfect example ).

[the silver fox]

I still don't see what affection you hold for this service. It's got more bugs than a bait shop and the smell is not that much better.

As for the first part of the comment... please see back to my original post as to why Apple won't do this type of service ( yet ). My point is that Apple will only go forward with this one all elements are in place. iTMS TV downloads are a first step, frontrow is a second, the intel transition will hopefully provide enough horsepower to allow smooth decoding of all h.264 content, .mac is being "upgraded" to support larger downloads, and then they just need to provide the content once all other items fall into place. Apple will not pre-announce the service and it may be only for intel mac with the way things are going.

All I have been saying is that Apple WON'T provide the content until the other peices are in place otherwise it's an incomplete and ineffective user experience ( Vongo is just a perfect example ).

I don't hold any affection for this service, but on my PCs it works pretty flawlessly.

Not sure about that one... Apple offered music video downloads as a test bed for TV downloads a LONG time before the introduction of the 5th gen iPod. A very ineffective user experience. A definite show of releasing a half baked product to put a toe in the water.

[the silver fox]

the intel transition will hopefully provide enough horsepower to allow smooth decoding of all h.264 content

Absolutely, but there will be a tiny percentage of the market who will have that capability. It took the iPod to get to 4th Gen before Apple started making money off the ITMS. Downloading movies that you then can't play on your iPod? Not much point in that.

I have no doubt that Apple are working on a great service with fabulous hardware integration. For now, the Vongo service fulfills the needs of someone who does as much travelling as me, perfectly well.

[DavidCL23]

Thanks OP, I just signed up. Great value.

[mrwonkers]

800 movies wooooooopi crap.........windows media format.......hmmm no thanks.........

WTF don't they just use mp4, I encode a lotta movies in mp4 the quality is fat and specs are alot better than Vongos vomit.......I mean like 64 kbps audio, I'm sorry thats just not acceptable...even at 9.95 a month for all u can eat.....after all what good is all u can eat when the food tastes so bad that even your dog turns its nose up at it........;)